Comments

  1. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel says

    I like turtles, too.

    My turtle is napping under her heat lamp. ‘Tis the time of year.

  3. A. Noyd says

    I’ve got genomes and proteomes and transcriptomes on the brain since several of my textbooks mention them, and just now I was submitting a comment on a blog that uses captcha and the word was “typoome.” Now I’ve got this image of linguists compiling typoomes and doing comparisons between different web communities.

  6. says

    From the last ET:
    pelamun

    . In the region where I went to school, we knew exactly who the Catholics were, and mocked them for being Catholic. But they also got a decidedly more religious type of R.E. than the rest of us, both Lutherans and the non-religious.

    I found the institutional pressure much harder. The fact that there would be weeks more or less devoted to preparation of the school church service that left me standing in the rain was hard as a kid. My peers actually envied me, because I got the RE hours free.
    Later things changed. In primary school they scheduled RE so I could leave earlier, but later that wasn’t possible anymore, so I just got to sit at the back of the class of the Lutherans and do my homework, until there came a teacher who couldn’t take that anymore. So I went to the catholics, but that was actually quite interesting. Because the Lutherans were before their Konfirmation and verrrry religious and the catholics were more talking about “Gott und die Welt”.

  9. says

    [My childhood animal rights story…Which I might have told before but I don’t recall]

    When I was growing up, my rural-suburban town had a fireman’s carnival, part of which was turtle races. I participated. They were in a wooden box with numbers painted on their backs, and when the time came the box would be dumped in a ring and we would stand around it hitting our numbered sticks to root for our turtle favorites. Some people objected and it was discontinued. As far as I know, no one questioned it. I’m proud of the town. It was wrong.

  10. opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces says

    Reposting (ack! I got hit in the neck by the portcullis)
    .

    Is it true that surgeons sometimes use obsidian scalpels for eye surgery because they are so much sharper than the sharpest steel scalpels?
    .
    .
    There is a highly toxic MRA called “arguably MRA” still wanking and spewing venom all over the circumcision thread. https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2011/10/19/ritualized-child-abuse-circumcision/comment-page-1/#comment-114628 Is it a known troll under a new nym, does anyone happen to know?

  11. says

    Therrin,

    I also thought about that, but he did say in the panel “can you give US six quid”. I mean later he was travelling only with the squid, right? Though the squid doesn’t appear before that comic.

    Giliell,

    that’s strange. Because in my experience, Lutherans would be receive their proper religious education from their pastor in Sunday school, that wasn’t anything the school R.E. classes did. They’d go there for a year or so, go on some trips together, and need to prove to their pastor by checklist that they attended church regularly for that one year. Then they’d receive their monetary gifts at the confirmation ceremony and then never set foot in a church again except for some High Holidays and family affairs.

    Maybe the curriculum had been toned down so the non-religious wouldn’t opt out and not create some need for a truly a-religious alternative. At least later on you had the choice between philosophy and R.E.

  12. Moggie says

    pelamun:

    I also thought about that, but he did say in the panel “can you give US six quid”. I mean later he was travelling only with the squid, right? Though the squid doesn’t appear before that comic.

    In colloquial British English, “us” is often used in this way to mean “me”.

  13. Tethys says

    Is it true that surgeons sometimes use obsidian scalpels for eye surgery because they are so much sharper than the sharpest steel scalpels?

    An obsidian blade can actually be so thin (200 angstroms) as to be able to cut between cells. They also do not leave any microscopic metal fragments which rust within the eye.

  14. Therrin says

    pelamun,

    I mean later he was travelling only with the squid, right?

    What Moggie said. Also, he wasn’t travelling with the squid, the squid was his “tube fare”. -.-

  16. KG says

    Adam Werritty’s name has two “t”s.

    Six quid ==> Sick squid. Therrin

    Yes, but if there was a point to using this hoary old pun in the cartoon, I didn’t see it. Besides which, in the preceding strip Werritty asked to borrow “six quid” (heard as “sick squid”), not “a six quid”, so he should have been carrying at least two – unless perhaps all but one had subsequently expired.

    /pedant

  17. says

    Yeah, but do you like turtles this much?

    “I like turtles!” has become a sort of group interjection among my peers. Some of them were even discussing having a turtle on their defense committee.

    I like turtles that much. Honestly, I think a turtle on my committee would have been the most challenging. I – like hundreds of thousands of others – would have lost to a turtle or a turtle advocate.

  18. says

    Moggie,

    Thanks. But I’m with KG too, I don’t particularly see the point of the squid. Must be that famous British humour they always go on about /jk.

    opposable thumbgs

    Maybe a case for the Troll Watch? I’ve been bold and created a page.

  22. says

    Tethys:

    An obsidian blade can actually be so thin (200 angstroms) as to be able to cut between cells.

    That is awesome. Truly. Sometimes, it’s the old stuff and old ways that work best. Reminds me of a segment on New Detectives ages ago. There was a fingerprint, in blood, on the inside wall of a cooking pot. A photograph couldn’t be taken with a modern camera, so the forensic scientist used an old bellows camera (4×5 format) on a slide rail. Took a perfect shot in real size.

  23. says

    The conversation started with the idea of getting a turtle as a group pet/mascot. Then one guy got the bright idea of listing the turtle as co-author on a paper… and it just escalated from there.

    “Man, that was brutal. That one guy absolutely shredded my dissertation.” “Yeah, then he shit all over it.”

    “You had a question, sir? Oh, wait, I see, you were just reaching for your lettuce.”

  26. says

    I’d also say that having an article on Greg Laden’s blog with her real name in the title will do much more to her reputation than the Pharyngulawiki entry ever did…

  27. says

    The conversation started with the idea of getting a turtle as a group pet/mascot. Then one guy got the bright idea of listing the turtle as co-author on a paper… and it just escalated from there.

    Defense question: How does/will your research affect both humans and nonhumans like us?

  28. Weed Monkey says

    Re. drift stores – I’d love to be able to find some clothes in one. It seems I’m a bit too tall to have much luck*, while some of my smaller friends often do. But I’ve found some other stuff, like kitchenware and a sofa in a drift store, and they cost me next to nothing while still in quite usable condition.

    *Except for that one time I found a good quality, good looking 100% wool jacket that fit me perfectly for something like 2 €.

  29. Father/Brother/Nephew/Cousin/ex-Mother-in-Law Ogvorbis, OM: Independently-Minded Baboon says

    Maybe a case for the Troll Watch?

    Wouldn’t that be redundant? There are already trolls, humans, dwarfs, a werewolf, a vampire and a gnome on the Watch.

  30. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    Wait – given that the pseudonym is now being linked to her real name in Laden’s blog, is that considered “outing”? :( I’m not sure how comfortable I am with that, but given that the place where she’s being referred to uses both her nym and her name, I don’t know that it’s a concern.

  32. says

    CC,

    I was pretty much shocked when I saw her Twitter page. She also did link her nym once to her real name on Pharyngula, in the post on PZ’s mom. So in a way she has outed herself.

  34. says

    CC:

    Wait – given that the pseudonym is now being linked to her real name in Laden’s blog, is that considered “outing”?

    Laden’s post has to do with FB, which not everyone uses. Blu may well have been outing herself all over the place, but I’m not overly comfortable with Laden’s post, given his history of mis-using people’s real info.

  35. Sili says

    “I like turtles!” has become a sort of group interjection among my peers. Some of them were even discussing having a turtle on their defense committee.

    But how do you feel about mudkips?

  36. says

    Blu does all her own outing, she puts links to her real name and details all over the place. Her FB page is wide open and full of it. She twitters it. And then she whines that other people are hurting her reputation…

  37. says

    Father O,

    haha, that reminds me of a joke my professor liked to tell in semantics class

    Consider these types of markets:

    – Kindermarkt
    – Polenmarkt
    – Rindermarkt
    – Wochenmarkt

    Those aren’t markets that sell children, Polish people, cattle or weeks, now? Well actually, a Rindermarkt actually does sell cattle…

  39. Father/Brother/Nephew/Cousin/ex-Mother-in-Law Ogvorbis, OM: Independently-Minded Baboon says

    I like turtles, too. And tortoises.

    I remember, back when we lived in California, helping my father clean a Sonoran Desert Tortoise (Gopherus agassizii) which had wandered or been washed into the salt flats at Death Valley. It was so completely and totally encrusted with salt that it could not move. We got to gently soak the salt off the tortoise while feeding it lettuce to keep it occupied. Those things are strong.

  40. says

    So she uses her nym on FB too?

    Then that’d be truly

    head –> desk.

    Or a pseudonym that was never intended to be anonymous in the first place.

  41. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    So she uses her nym on FB too?

    Yes. Facebook and Twitter. Google one, the other’s in the first result.
    Still, I wouldn’t have done it. But it’s puzzling what he should do exactly because he’s responding to her FB behavior. Maybe just not linked to her facebook?

  42. crissakentavr says

    I rather liked the story of the rolls royce, honestly. Also, how often do you need to replace a rolls royce?

    About the poll… I’m one to think the issue of what was painted on the wall is more important to see context: When was it put there? Who put it there, who paid for it, and who maintains it? What else is on the wall?

    A prayer or quote from a bible is not establishment if it’s one of many other items instead of one of one. If a student wrote and applied it to the wall with no funding or backing from the school or adults, that’s mitigating. If it pre-exists the school as a public-run facility, that’s mitigating.

    None of the answer to the poll or the article seem to give me these details. If the school put it up or asked a student to write it or an adult supplied it, then it needs to go. It could be altered, but that’s a solution that I wouldn’t advocate. If it’s just one of many things, then it shows diversity not establishment – after all, you can have religious books in the library.

  43. says

    Well, I don’t know what blog posts and rants he is referring to, so it’s hard to say, but if she linked her real name in so many conspicuous places then it was inevitable, I think.

    Maybe in his case, he is referencing a public dispute between two people in the American skeptics scene (I seem to recall that BH was involved in the skeptics community in that place over there that bears the same name as one of the famous people in American history), and he is taking a stance in that dispute. Referencing both her name and nym might have been necessary for him to make that stance.

    On Pharyngula OTOH, it was more something like a blog war concerning the Slimepit and the Wiki etc, no need to bring real names into it.

    I might be wrong about this, tho…

  44. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    Now that I think about it it’s probably okay. It’s like calling the author of ERV Abbie Smith – she’s out already. I think.

  45. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    1. We have a little box turtle in an aquarium.
    2. We also have one that lives in our bushes and twice a week begs for strawberries and grapes on our patio.
    3. I have written lucidly on the subject of box turtles, under my real name, J. Antiochus Epiphanes.

  47. crissakentavr says

    PS, that’s why you don’t get into arguments with anti-circumscision guys. They take no evidence for trauma as evidence for trauma, they make creationist arguments about anatomy, and then they make arguments that animals which cannot bathe themselves obviously live just as long as if they’re bathed. It’s a bunch of hooey.

    Why would you complain about anyone in that thread when the regular posters were being so bad?

  48. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    Why would you complain about anyone in that thread when the regular posters were being so bad?

    Oh my fuuuuuck criss GO AWAY

  50. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    Don’t you have pearls to clutch somewhere, Sugar?

    I have to because of Buffy: “Don’t you have an elsewhere to be?”

  51. Pickle surprise says

    Wow, that turtle guy is the kind of person I would love to spend the day with! It is like a museum and zoo rolled into one.

    And yes, I like turtles too.

  53. says

    I’m just wondering…do you think that Jessica Ahlquist & the ACLU are also intellectual cowards who are trying to silence their critics thru the courts? Oopsie my friend…i think you just put yr foot in your mouth! :-)

    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa…

    (three hours later)

    rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.

  54. Darrell E says

    Greetings All,

    Long time reader, infrequent poster. I would like to solicit help from any readers that care to offer it. Here is my quandary.

    I have the opportunity to direct a sizeable amount of money to charities of my choice. The charities must be child oriented. About half must be in the New York State area, and about half can be international.

    As part of my research I would like to ask the readers here for suggestions. Over the years I have been reading this blog I have seen many discussions about charities and I am confident that many of the readers here could make good suggestions. I am looking mainly for secular, or at least not directly reglious, charities with high efficiency ratings.

    Thank you for any help you can offer.
    Sincerely,
    Darrell E

  56. Tethys says

    Caine

    A photograph couldn’t be taken with a modern camera, so the forensic scientist used an old bellows camera (4×5 format) on a slide rail. Took a perfect shot in real size.

    Ah, brilliant! It shows great clarity of thought.

    A friend used just such a camera in her Masters Photography thesis project. She took photos of various skin damage (cancer, scars, rashes, etc) and then enlarged them until they were abstracts of color and pattern.

    Chigau

    Knapping a torus

    I would give most anything to be able to travel back in time and learn from those knappers. I can only imagine the sheer patience involved in boring an ever larger hole in stone using a stick and quartz sand. And then I imagine the more likely fate I would suffer. Hmmm, obsidian tools are incredibly sharp? ;-o

  57. Algernon says

    Why would you complain about anyone in that thread when the regular posters were being so bad?

    Because I complain about what bothers me and not about what doesn’t.

    Though, I wasn’t in that thread. I was out at a thrift store (no kidding) looking for something to use to make a “Dorothy” themed costume from that is work appropriate (our team is doing the wizard of oz and volunteered me to be the Dorothy).

  59. chigau (almost) says

    Is it because I just spent 4 solid(ish) hours on Japanese that the crissakentavr comment seems to be in Swahili?
    Did it mean something in English?

  60. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    Did it mean something in English?

    No.

    This has been yet another episode of, “Short answers to obvious questions.” And now, a word from our sponsers. We’ll be bach in just a minuet.

  61. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    Did it mean something in English?

    Waa waa you all are mean JUST AS BAD AS THE CREATIONISTS pay attention to me

  62. says

    Chigau:

    Did it mean something in English?

    “I’m going to continue clutching my pearls and whining about the horrible regulars because even though I’m desperate to be respected and liked, the pecking order is preventing it!” *whine, whine, whine*

  63. Philip Legge says

    Anyone with a little bit of nous would have noticed blu’s real name from checking other social media – if she thought she was somehow insulating her virtual identities from her real identity then she’s very misguided. For instance, on sites like Hemant’s blog which use Disqus for commenting, her profile clearly states her first name and surname.

    I very much like Pelamun’s initial contribution for the Troll Watch page and look forward to seeing it fill out a little. With respect to the list of denizens of the Slimepit: whoever came up with that ingenious classification of anti-feminist trolls by their type of behaviour, would you consider adding the relevant troll-types to individuals who you think meet them?

  65. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    Baba Ogvorbis
    What happened to the rest of your ‘nym?

    There’s a theory about that. By a guy named Einstein if I recall.

  66. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    Baba Ogvorbis
    What happened to the rest of your ‘nym?

    Er, the reunion is over?

    The medications are kicking in?

  68. chigau (亀が好きです) says

    Ogvorbis父さん

    There’s a theory about that. By a guy named Einstein if I recall.
    Er, the reunion is over?
    The medications are kicking in?

    Well, if you don’t know …

  69. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    Meds? perks up immediately

    Don’t get excited. I was explaining why my ‘nym has shrunk from “Father/Brother/Nephew/Cousin/ex-Mother-in-Law Ogvorbis, OM: Independently-Minded Baboon” to a single personality again.

  74. chigau (亀が好きです) says

    Do you have a theory?

    I’m not big on theory.
    Half-baked notions and ludacrous ludicrus silly conjecture are more my speed.

  75. says

    Philip Legge
    Thx. Now go fill it with trolls :D. I’m not an expert in trollogy, but I’m not sure yet if the classification of anti-feminist trolls is workable. One would need to do a study, but I’m not gonna do it, I’m never gonna get the stench out of computer…

  78. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    Oh noes, not the bunnies!!!

    Just toss in the Holy Hand Grenade. On four. Er, two. On three! Three? Four?

    (((((BOOM!!!!)))))

    Never mind.

  82. says

    From Alethea’s link @ 76:

    What do you think would happy [if] you put [two] hateful women in a home together? Bliss? Bitches go fucking shit nuts if some man isn’t giving them attention.

    Repeat after me: there is no such thing as a Lesbian, only really confused women. Women are by nature whores that will change their whims depending on the whim, depending on what they perceive society rewarding them for, i.e. whores.

    Unfortunately, I’ve run into this attitude a *lot* in day to day life. There’s a terrifying amount of men out there who think what any lesbian (or bisexual in a lesbian relationship) needs is a good fuck to snap ’em out of it.

    These same assholes will maintain that’s there’s no such thing as a bisexual. (More than one has actually argued that with me, face to face.)

    As for ‘bed death’, meh. It can happen in any relationship.

  84. ad hominum salvator ॐ says

    if she thought she was somehow insulating her virtual identities from her real identity then she’s very misguided.

    Nah, “bluharmony” is part of her professional contact info, so I’m pretty confident she didn’t think anything like that.

  85. says

    Oh, yeah, seeing your quotes and comment, Caine, made me painfully aware you can also take that as more horror, rather than as a good laugh. Perhaps I should have warned about that, although mentioning MRAs and manboobz was probably word enough to the wise. It’s like FSTDT, only funny if you’re in the right mood.

  87. Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments says

    The person who wrote that deserves, when he dies, to be alone and forsaken.

  88. Carlie says

    Darrell E – I like modestneeds.org . They are not specifically child-oriented, but it’s possible to direct your giving directly to cases that involve children’s needs.

  89. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Caine:

    :snortle: Ah, but did you use their real names?

    Only when they expressed a dissenting opinion.

    Oh. And “Sugar”…Daddy like ;)

    Darrell E:

    I am looking mainly for secular, or at least not directly reglious, charities with high efficiency ratings.

    Antiochus’ Kids will be happy to accept your tax-deductible gift. We will send you a tote, an autographed picture of the Ptolemy*, and a engraved jump-drive with all my original thoughts conveyed in the beauty of individual txt files.

    Or I hear Foundation Beyond Belief might could hook you up.

    *His name be cursed.

  90. says

    Alethea:

    Oh, yeah, seeing your quotes and comment, Caine, made me painfully aware you can also take that as more horror, rather than as a good laugh.

    Yeah. I might have taken that as a “oh that can’t be real” if I hadn’t repeatedly run into these types of assholes. There are a lot of ‘love-shy’ types out and about in life. They’re scary.

  91. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    Caine:

    Part of me wonders just what his relationship is with his mother, aunts, female cousins, nieces, girlfriend/wife, daughter, and any other female in a close relationship. Are the women he knows that thoroughly cowed and beaten down (literally or figuritively) that his view is situationally valid? Or is he so thoroughly deluded that the idea of a woman who does not fit his hateful idea of ‘woman’ is completely outside his ken?

    Another part of me cringes at knowing anything about his relationships.

  93. chigau (亀が好きです) says

    Those “no such thing as lesbians” quotes come from men who think that “sex” is not possible without the involvement of a penis.
    Without a penis it is, by definition, not “sex”.
    That’s why there are no lesbians in the bybull.

  94. Sili says

    Meds? perks up immediately

    Well, I’m on my second bottle of red in as many days, and I have all but forgotten that I had a cold.

  95. Algernon says

    Women are by nature whores that will change their whims depending on the whim, depending on what they perceive society rewarding them for, i.e. whores.

    Sounds kind of sociopathic to me, actually. He looks down on people who conform to social norms because he is above that?

    Hello, dangerous entitled asshole!

  97. says

    Ogvorbis, while I can’t speak to whoever wrote that post, the men I’ve met in real life who share that view tend to have a mix of the things you listed.

    A lot of them don’t have good relationships with the women in their family (what a surprise, eh?) and they often have not so great relationships with their fathers. Mostly, I’ve found it almost always boils down to them not being able to have successful relationships with women (either friendships or sexual ones), so they either label all women as nasty whores or go with the “all they need is a good fuck” theory. They find it comforting.

  98. ad hominum salvator ॐ says

    chigau: it’s Ludacris.

    +++++
    yesterday’s business:

    I meant the bit about the pics of PZ’s mother. A name other than Bluharmony was used for that.

    Moot now, but I’m certain that was her too. She used several IPs.

    Your own ignorance is not a yardstick.

    Sure it is, one yardstick. If a bunch of regulars said they didn’t grasp why we had a particular wiki page, that may indicate it’s out of place.

    +++++

    mousy mouse? mousymousy mice’s? murmuring mouse? alliterative mouse?

  102. Carlie says

    FYI: bluharmony is now posting as “lady love”, just in case she shows up around here.

  105. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    lady love. Really? Ugh.

    And Femmy Clone. I have no idea what’s up with the sockpuppeting, but hey, whatever floats her boat/gets her banned.
    She’s being incredibly obnoxious again.

  107. says

    Bluharmony/lady love:

    As for you, Ophelia, I haven’t talked to or about you since the last nasty message you left on my page. As far as I know, nobody likes you, and you’re banned from every respectable blog.

    Christ, what a piece of work. Intersection material to the core. For the record, I like Ophelia. I rather think most people do.

  111. Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments says

    As for you, Ophelia, I haven’t talked to or about you since the last nasty message you left on my page. As far as I know, nobody likes you, and you’re banned from every respectable blog.

    *blink*
    *blink*

    What?

  112. Carlie says

    …and now as “just me”, and claims that it is the “only way” she can post (insinuating that Greg has banned her under other nyms).
    She really is the definition of “doesn’t know when to stop digging”, isn’t she?

  114. says

    Carlie:

    …and now as “just me”, and claims that it is the “only way” she can post (insinuating that Greg has banned her under other nyms).
    She really is the definition of “doesn’t know when to stop digging”, isn’t she?

    I saw that! And she has the nerve to make the crack about IQs? Someone needs to be told what being banned means. She could be Slanted Science’s twin.

  117. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    but wouldn’t a ban also entail an IP ban? Not sure how bans work here…

    She uses a number of IPs.

  118. Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments says

    Bluharmony, Femmy Clone, lady love, just me and who ever else you will be, I like you too.

    (Yes, I did have a copy of the album. Complete with the barf bag.)

  119. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    Bluharmony, Femmy Clone, lady love, just me and who ever else you will be, I like you too.

    Sadface. Link borked.

  120. Sili says

    I saw that! And she has the nerve to make the crack about IQs? Someone needs to be told what being banned means. She could be Slanted Science’s twin.

    I’m sure she has a double-digit IQ. Now stop making fun of her.

  123. Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments says

    I’m sure she has a double-digit IQ. Now stop making fun of her.

    Now I am thinking of sandiseatlle and his triple digit IQ.

  124. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    Sorry about this. I’m gonna piddle on the parade and then go and relax for a while.

    Sherman, our light gray 18-year-old tiger, the one who was semi-hairless, neurotic, bulemic, selectively incontinent, and loveable, just died. He is now buried in the corner of our backyard (we did wonder what the neighbors might think we were doing) under the dish of the bird bath (no pedestal anymore, that fell apart a couple of winters ago). He was loveable, an asshole, cute, annoying, and the only cat I ever heard actually say, “Mama”; only to Wife, of course, never to me.

    G’night, all.

  126. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    I didn’t know it was possible for noise to induce stomach upset. Just listened to Vanessa Mae’s rendition of The Devil’s Trill several times in a row and I feel slightly nauseated. Or maybe it’s that huge meal I had earlier today.
    —————————————–

    I give up. This bluharmony circus, I can’t make heads or tails of what’s going on in her mind. I’ll risk being labeled mean and say that if this is how she reacts to such, I’d hate for her to be my lawyer in any capacity.
    —————————————–

    Can we just start calling a certain political party the Sociopath Party? It seems to attract those who could be called sociopaths, and plenty of people who blindly follow them over hill and vale.

  127. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    Sherman, our light gray 18-year-old tiger, the one who was semi-hairless, neurotic, bulemic, selectively incontinent, and loveable, just died.

    Oh Og :( I’m sorry. *hugs*

  130. Sili says

    Now I am thinking of sandiseatlle and his triple digit IQ.

    I’m sorry. I borked the joke. Stupid me.

    G’night, all.

    So it goes.

  134. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Aw, Ogvorbis, that’s awful. Sorry to hear.

  136. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    Classical Cipher, Caine, Pelamun, Carlie and Janine: Thanks. He was a lifetime indoor cat who was very loved. NOt pampered, but loved.

    ——–

    The Grand Old Psycopaths?

    ——–

    No, not in bed yet.

  137. says

    Well, today, the person-who-shall-not-be-named seems to have done a far better job of destroying her own online image than any of us could have done. So… yeah, I guess the heated debate that consumed half my weekend is now something of a moot point. Maybe one day I’ll learn some perspective. But not yet.

    (There are times when I feel like Don Quixote tilting at windmills.)

  147. says

    Well, you might want to get right on that. It will prevent more asshole behaviour.

    FFS. I restored the article. I left it to other people to make the decision. What the hell else do you want from me?

  148. chigau (亀が好きです) says

    Good night sweet Sherman.
    *hugs* for the minus-one Ogvorbis household.

  149. bro boxley OT says

    no lesbians?
    Reminds me of a relative on one side of the family moved in with a relative of another part of the extended family in-law/ niece. I knew that her flag could fly in both directions but that was her business not his so Im glad they got along.

    Well the bloom apparently wore off about 6 months in and he calls me drunk and distraught about how she had invited an old female friend home with them and they started making out and when the cloths started coming off he fled and hid in the bedroom.
    Why you calling me?
    I thought you should know
    I already knew
    why didnt you tell me?
    that would be up to her
    what am I going to do?
    If I wasnt related and single if it was me I would quietly go back out to the living room and sneak in somewhere. But if they dont like that idea leave them alone.
    He started vomiting :-) he left with his stuff the next day.
    She told me she was tired of his lazy ass and knew what his reaction would be and didnt want a long breakup or an argument.

    My eldest when he was 10 spotted the lesbian couple next door being very affectionate and he asked me why two girls were kissing. Since they liked western stuff and wore cowboy hats I told them that it was that they were cowboys. He thought that was a reasonable answer.

  150. says

    Father Ogvorbis, OM, I’m very sorry to hear that Sherman has died. Good that you were able to bury him in his own yard. Sending e-whiskey, single malt.

    As I mentioned once, we too have a semi-hairless, neurotic, bulemic, selectively incontinent cat. In spite of that, she’s rather cute and strangely lovable. In the last week or so I’ve noticed that she is having seizures. Her blood tests out great so it’s probably a brain tumor. She’s about 17 1/2 so we are not doing MRI and heroic measures. Watching and waiting now to see how frequent they are and whether she seems otherwise comfortable. It can be a little hard to tell with cats.

  152. First Approximation, Much Cooler In Cyberspace says

    So… yeah, I guess the heated debate that consumed half my weekend is now something of a moot point. Maybe one day I’ll learn some perspective. But not yet.

    I’m sure everyone here has let SIWOTI get the best of them at one time or another.

    Anyway, WTF is wrong with bluharmony?

  154. Carlie says

    Anyway, WTF is wrong with bluharmony?

    Apparently if you try to offer any opinions on that, she’ll threaten to sue you. ;)

  157. chigau (亀が好きです) says

    Who, after the age of 10 or so, uses “nobody likes you” as an insult?

  158. says

    Farewell, Sherman! We’ll all miss the threat of receiving you in the mail. Hugs to your surviving servant.

    It IS hard to tell with cats; they’re such stoics.

  160. bro boxley OT says

    #144 Benjamin, did he format the variables correctly? would be funny if you could respond by saying
    fuck= should be capitalized FUCK= so that it clearly stands out as a variable without noting the names in any other way

  161. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel says

    Oggie:

    Sherman, our light gray 18-year-old tiger, the one who was semi-hairless, neurotic, bulemic, selectively incontinent, and loveable, just died.

    Oh man. I am so sorry to hear that. It’s the asshole cats that touch us the most, isn’t it?

  162. Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments says

    I love Deface The Music. Utopia was outstanding in their field.

    (Kick me hard.)

  163. Tethys says

    Stop me! Stop me now!

    I can’t help, sorry. My life is made more complete for viewing Leonard Nimoy monotonate If I had a Hammer, and then segue into a speech about love set to America the Beautiful.

    Father Og,

    I’m sorry to hear about Sherman.

  164. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    Who, after the age of 10 or so, uses “nobody likes you” as an insult?

    She implied it to me last night on the strength of my Twitter (because I don’t have many followers), then deleted her remarks without comment when I tweeted that it was exceptionally classy of her to ridicule an autistic person for having too few friends…

  167. says

    She implied it to me last night on the strength of my Twitter (because I don’t have many followers), then deleted her remarks without comment when I tweeted that it was exceptionally classy of her to ridicule an autistic person for having too few friends…

    Wow, really classy….!

  168. Carlie says

    then deleted her remarks without comment when I tweeted that it was exceptionally classy of her to ridicule an autistic person for having too few friends…

    Check and mate.

  170. chigau (亀が好きです) says

    … then deleted her remarks …

    If she can still be embarrassed, maybe she is not a totally lost cause.

  171. Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments says

    Here is one eighties indie rock band mocking an other eighties indie rock band. As over ninety five percent of the people reading this scratch their collective heads.

  173. says

    Bro:

    It’s Python, so there’s no mandated format, and he was consistent (as Python is case sensitive).

    ####

    All that’s left to grade is the bonus question, and I don’t intend to give partial credit for that. Then I have to settle the question of curving.

    ####

    As much as I dislike the general idea of infidelity in a monogamous relationship*, this D-triple-word-score person is just not right in the head.

    * Or “infidelity” in other types of relationship, for that matter. The question is simply how the people in each relationship define infidelity.

  175. says

    Re adultery:

    I take it it is still an offence in 12 states or something?

    This is what I found on the Pfft

    In the United States, laws vary from state to state. In those states where adultery is still on the statute book (although rarely prosecuted), penalties vary from life sentence (Michigan),[52] to a fine of $10 (Maryland), to a Class I felony (Wisconsin).[53] In the U.S. Military, adultery is a potential court-martial offense.[15] The enforceability of adultery laws in the United States is unclear following Supreme Court decisions since 1965 relating to privacy and sexual intimacy of consenting adults.[54] However, occasional prosecutions do occur.[55]

  176. Wowbagger, Madman of Insleyfarne says

    Carlie wrote:

    I am late to the party and have just discovered Gotye.

    Gotye’s awesome. Apart from being (obviously) a musical genius, he’s a stunningly good percussionist as well. I want to see him live but the shows always sell out to damn fast or clash with other things I’m doing.

    Here’s a great song from an earlier album, played live: Learnalilgivinanlovin

  179. vanshee says

    This isn’t relevant to the discussion at hand but this little gem from the stereotypes thread made me facepalm.

    However I don’t think the jingle about Swedish men being gay has anything to do with homosexuality per se, it’s more like saying Swedes are sissies…

  180. says

    Finally, she has emerged on Greg Laden’s blog with her original nym. If she really does sue him, that would make her notable enough to reinstate her deleted page on the wiki, I think.

  181. julian says

    There’s a terrifying amount of men out there who think what any lesbian (or bisexual in a lesbian relationship) needs is a good fuck to snap ‘em out of it

    Reminds me of corrective rapes in South Africa.

  186. ChasCPeterson says

    I remember, back when we lived in California, helping my father clean a Sonoran Desert Tortoise (Gopherus agassizii) which had wandered or been washed into the salt flats at Death Valley.

    As far as I know they do not occur naturally in Death Valley itself. I’d bet somebody released it there in an ignorantly misguided Born Free maneuver. They used to sell tortoises at gas stations along Rt. 66.
    So probably, also, it was the Mojave Desert version, still G. agassizi. Tortoises from the Sonoran Desert were recently split off as G. morafkai.

    Do you have a theory?

    you mean ‘hypothesis’.

  188. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Poor Sherman. So close to the birds, but so far away.

    Bedtime and a noisy grumble storm is overhead.

  189. Crudely Wrott says

    Sympathies to Father O. I’ve burried furred friends. It is a heartache.
    *I see a kitten in your not-too-distant future*

    @ bro boxley:
    Your story about your boy and the *cough* cowboys still has me chuckling. Thanks.

    I do hope that bluharmony gets some kind of help or can find it in herself to just go sit down and breath deeply . . . and . . . just be quiet. It could only help her, poor thing. It can’t be any fun at all being inside her head.

    OK, maybe it’s fun for her, how do I know? Scary, that notion.

  190. Mattir says

    Ogvorbis, I am very sorry about Sherman. We will all miss being threatened with his presence. For the record, we have an elderly, sometimes incontinent cat, but who is nevertheless wise enough to decide that DDMFM is the bestest thing in the universe.

    We are trying to figure out what to do this week: possibilities include going to look at precambrian equatorial glaciation deposits in southwestern Virginia, with fossil stops all along the way, toodling around DC looking at cool stuff, spending a day going through the Mattir Family Collection of Nature Stuff and enjoying the discussions that ensue, and watching the remaining 8 episodes of James Burke’s Connections. The advantage of the going-through-the-collection option is that it will get a cluttered and disorganized room somewhat more organized and in a pleasant and informative way, so that will probably happen.

  191. crowepps says

    Ogvorbis @ #124 — Very sorry to hear about Sherman. I’ve lost many cats over the years, and it is excrutiating every time.

  192. Tethys says

    Ben Geiger

    Cow Tse Tung = hilarious bad pun

    I Lobster and Never Flouder = blatant sexist BS = Not funny.

  194. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    I’m watching a survival show called “Man Woman Wild”. A husband and wife doing survival exercises in various environments. It’s a fairly entertaining show, but the comments on the videos are always disheartening, with people either going on about how hot Ruth (the Woman half of the team) is, or making her out to be stupid and annoying because she’s not an expert like her husband.

    But of course what else do I expect from Youtube comments? Bah.

  195. Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments says

    TLC, that is about what I expect from the cesspool that is YouTube comments.

  196. Sally Strange, OM says

    Nice, Pelamun. I added one author that I forgot to mention previously: Marge Piercy. Wonderful writer. Her poetry is amazing as well, as are her non-sci-fi novels.

  197. carol loomis says

    Very interesting video about a gentleman who obviously has found his life’s work.

  198. says

    I just got done entering the grades for the exam into a spreadsheet. So, now I have some statistics.

    Average score: 95.5%.
    Median score: 98%.

    High score: 110% (2)
    Low scores: 59%, 80%, 83%; the rest are >90%.

    I think it’s safe to say I made the test way too easy. The idea was to curve it.

  200. Sally Strange, OM says

    Another gem from Manboobz:

    “The historian can peg the point where a society begins its sharpest decline at the instant when women begin to take part, on an equal footing with men, in political and business affairs; since this means that the men are decadent and the women are no longer women.”

    –L. Ron Hubbard

    L. Ron Hubbard was a raging misogynist. Quelle surprise.

  202. Ray, rude-ass yankee says

    Father Ogvorbis, OM@124, Sorry to hear about Sherman.

    Walton@137, Damn windmills, just asking to be tilted at. (just kidding ,no criticism intended)

    Benjamin “Durr Hurr” Geiger@144, Extra credit, no question.

    Walton@147, I respect your principles, anyone else doesn’t agree, who cares?

    bro boxley OT@149, Cowboys, I love it!

    Mattir@190, OOh, OOh I’m in southwestern Virginia!

  204. theophontes , flambeau du communisme says

    {last thread}
    @ SG
    Welcome back.

    @Dianne

    Well, that didn’t take long. Libya’s new and pious state.

    This is the historical standard for North Africa and the Middle East and has been an ongoing cyclical phenomenon for many centuries. The centre (urban areas in particular) becomes corrupted and is attacked by the margins (usually mountains and deserts) the inhabitants of which are more religious, puritan and hardy. It is an eternal theme, of which this is just another variation. What makes it so noticeable in the histories of these countries is that there is a very distinct difference between prime and marginal lands and their inhabitants. (Though perhaps the geographical aspect is less noticeable in this case as it is less related to power relationships than in the past.)

    @ Dr Audley

    Hans Gruber

    I presume you speak of Our Goddess Phoenicia (PBUH)? I shall have to declare a Schism!

    *mumbles: Deeeep Rifts! Heretics!*

    {this thread}

    @ Father (bro) Ogg

    Sorry to hear about Sherman. I have been offered that cat (in glowing terms) a number of times in previous threads.

    @ Caine
    Liquid hugs to add to Alfie’s drip.

    @ Walton

    Fucking windmills, how do they work?

  205. Beatrice says

    Is anyone else trying Stanford’s free courses? I enrolled in Machine learning and Introduction to databases. I’m very disapointed with Machine learning. I expected a real course, where I could expand my knowledge (It’s Stanford, I thought it was a given that the course would be more elaborate than what I’ve been taught). What I got is a terribly dumbed down version, where the professor constantly ensures listeners that not knowing Calculus shouldn’t cause problems.My last hope was with the programming exercises in the supposedly advanced track. No luck there.

    I understand that they are trying to make it interesting for public, but they should have made it clear from the start. From the description available beore it started, it seemed like it would be the same as the regular course at Stanford.

    And yet, I have spent half the night listening to the lectures. I keep hoping I’ll hear something new and interesting.

  206. says

    Sally Strange
    Thx!

    Beatrice

    Some years ago I tried the “History of the International System”, by James Sheehan. That was a wonderful series of lectures. However that was through iTunes U, might be different from what you’re doing.

  207. says

    Coyote, last thread,

    The only one of my weapons that’s actually made a few kills is my tomahawk (a domestic rabbit and several domestic chickens.)

    In that sense, I definitely admire the efficient killing power. One hit, and the animals I was slaughtering were dead.

    What kind of a sick fuck are you, and does anyone here want to read this shit ? I really don’t need to be told again and again how you get a hard-on from massacering rabbits, FFS.

  208. julian says

    @Rorschach

    Ever worked on a farm, Rorschach? A weapon that does it in one clean cut is better than one that doesn’t. And that’s for everyone involved.

  209. julian says

    Not trying to be disrespectful or anything and I apologize if offense was caused but you really are reading the worst into that. Many people get the wind knocked out of them when they see a weapon do what it was designed to do. It’s a scary, sometimes knee buckling feeling to come face to face with what a killing instrument can do.

  210. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    Okay, everybody. I’m done with the liar, I’m done with the Slimepit, and I won’t be dragged into any further shit with them. At all. If I do, y’all can feel free to tell me to return to TET immediately. It’s not my job to clean up piles of toxic shit.
    —
    With that, I have to go to bed. I’m up past bedtime, plus one of my acquaintances managed to say something that deeply shook me and I’m feeling awfully fractured now. I’m worried I’ll go into a tailspin. Here’s some more JoCo. Goodnight.

  211. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    What kind of a sick fuck are you, and does anyone here want to read this shit ? I really don’t need to be told again and again how you get a hard-on from massacering rabbits, FFS.

    I’ll accept squeamishness, I’ll accept the fact that the carnivores are sometimes a bit unpopular at the watering hole, I’ll accept that my ways may be unpalatable to the ‘All my meat comes from styrofoam trays!’ set, but fuck you for implying I get a hardon from killing.

    Massacering rabbits? What the fuck? It was a farm rabbit, raised for meat, and I slaughtered it in a quick clean professional manner. I’m sorry the basic fact that animals have to die in order to provide meat upsets you so. Here, perhaps clutching these pearls will help.

  214. Beatrice says

    pelamun,
    I might be too harsh. People who have either studied math long ago, or are barely starting seem to be satisfied. I guess the course was actually meant for those, and not for people who have a more serious background in the topic. The professor is great, I would love to listen to some other course by him.

    Introduction to databases is ok. I find the exercises useful for a bit of a review.

    *going back to having low expectation for everything, there’s less chance for disapointment*

  215. says

    Good morning

    pelamun
    Well, it might have been that particular teacher who taught Lutheran RE at that time. He was actually an asshole. He’d studied at the Bundeswehr and not only didn’t he really like the “traditional” aspects of it*, he also never came around with this thing about guiding kids instead of ordering them around. So, yeah, the last thing he could stand was an atheist non-conformist.

    Talking about compound nouns:
    There’s the:
    -Jugendschutz
    -Tierschutz
    -Umweltschutz
    -Lärmschutz

    or

    -Apfelkuchen
    -Schokoladenkuchen
    -Kirschkuchen
    -Hundekuchen

    *I got into trouble when I refused to write down and learn off by heart all of the Lied der Deutschen.

    bluharmony

    As for you, Ophelia, I haven’t talked to or about you since the last nasty message you left on my page. As far as I know, nobody likes you, and you’re banned from every respectable blog.

    Wow, if the standard of “respectable” is to ban Ophelia, what’s Pharyngula then?
    But I really believe that she’s a lawyer. They are professionally right, even when they aren’t**

    **Not true for all of them, of course. But for some it’s hard to leave that attitude at the office.

    Brother Ogvorbis
    I’m sorry about the cat. I’m sure he had the best cat-life possible for her.

    bro boxley

    My eldest when he was 10 spotted the lesbian couple next door being very affectionate and he asked me why two girls were kissing. Since they liked western stuff and wore cowboy hats I told them that it was that they were cowboys. He thought that was a reasonable answer.

    I’m waiting for the day my kids will ask those questions. I find it fascinating that to this day the older one hasn’t. It seems like something completely uninteresting if it’s just normal.

    pumpkin advice
    Does anybody know how long pumpkins keep if stored cool and dry outside? Becase they’re selling them for almost nothing at the moment and they’ll vanish come Halloween as if abducted by Leprechauns…

  216. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Giliell: I’m pretty sure (though not positive) that as long as pumpkins are kept relatively cool, dry, and uncut/unbruised, they’ll keep for a long time. Outside should be relatively OK, provided they aren’t getting rained on too much, but I wouldn’t trust the weather for long term pumpkin storage.

  217. opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces says

    Father Ogvorbis, I just read your post about Sherman. I’m really sorry {{a hug, if I may}}

  218. says

    TLC
    I have a roofed balcony. It’s the ideal place to grow tomatoes, too, because it hardly ever rains onto them.

    bluharmony
    OK, I read up on Greg’s blog and this is disturbing. I’m not going to comment over there because I don’t want to make matters worse by upsetting her even more. She really, really, really needs help and all I can feel for her is pity and a bit of worry.

  219. ad hominum salvator ॐ says

    fuck you for implying I get a hardon from killing.

    I’m not sure what other conclusion he’s supposed to come to. Everybody’s known that you’re a hunter for several months now. This extensive elaboration is extraneous but itches to be categorized somehow; Rorschach’s categorization follows reasonably from the evidence.

  220. says

    Shit, and if strange gods is defending me, you better believe you’re a fuck up mate, because that guy hates my guts. Seriously, I’m totally over your blood and gore hunting stories.

  221. says

    Actually, I hate strange gods as much as he hates me, but I also respect him, and I cant say that I respect TLC. He just comes across as some unhinged weapons loon. And now get off my lawn !!

  222. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    LOL, if you think my hunting stories are full of ‘blood and gore,’ you haven’t seen much.

    If people are getting tired of it, there’s a million other things to talk about, but I’m not gonna beg forgiveness for who I am and what I do.

    It makes me a little sad though, to see people so out of touch with where food comes from. It wasn’t even that long ago this kind of thing was just a part of life.

  223. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    I cant say that I respect TLC.

    My world is truly shattered. How shall I go on living, knowing Rorschach doesn’t respect me? Oh woe and sadness.

  224. says

    It makes me a little sad though, to see people so out of touch with where food comes from.

    Food comes from rabbits slaughtered with tomahawks ? You’re a world class moron mate.

  225. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Rabbits slaughtered by any means are but one source of food. It doesn’t take a moron to figure that out, ‘mate’.

    No, you’re right, meat is supposed to come from a dank smelly slaughterhouse, riddled with stale blood and bacteria, conveniently out of sight of delicate folks like you, so you can go on pretending that nothing has to die for your dinnerplate.

  226. julian says

    Rorschach’s categorization follows reasonably from the evidence. -ad hominum salvator

    “You butcher animals at a farm and sometimes hunt them for food therefore it’s fair to conclude you enjoy and delight in killing.”

    That does not sound reasonable.

    _____

    all I can feel for her is pity and a bit of worry.- Giliell

    Same. I don’t even think she’s intentionally misrepresenting her views or those of others.

    Blu, if you’re reading this, I apologize for being snide to you on B&W. Sit down and have a breather, it’s on me. World’s not out to get you even though it feels that way sometimes. It’s alright to get flustered angry and say things you don’t mean. Really it is. I’m not going to tell you you shouldn’t be mad. Last few months have sucked. This place isn’t good for you and neither are any of us. Emotions are running too high, there’s to much baggage at this point and nobody wants to be wrong.

    So why not walk away? You don’t need this.

    __________

    I cant say that I respect TLC. -Rorschach

    Would it be fair if TLC pointed to the circumcision thread and said the same about you?

  227. says

    Would it be fair if TLC pointed to the circumcision thread and said the same about you?

    I dont recall posting in any recent circumcision thread, but by all means, go for it. The nice thing about this blog is that it is self-correcting. As for now, I will insist on claiming that TLC is a deranged nutjob wrt his hunting efforts.

  228. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    As for now, I will insist on claiming that TLC is a deranged nutjob wrt his hunting efforts.

    You’re silly.

    But seriously, if being able to procure and prepare my own meat makes me a deranged nutjob, then call me certifiably insane.

    WOOOOOO WOOWOOOWOOOOWOOOWOOO!

  230. julian says

    WOOOOOO WOOWOOOWOOOOWOOOWOOO!

    I see TLC has disolved in a vat of Dip. Shame. Had no idea he was a cartoon. Bit of a shock there.

  231. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Julian: You didn’t know? OK, so I’m not as famous as that OTHER cartoon coyote, but this kinda hurts. I thought there’d at least be someone around who still watched….

  232. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel says

    Theophontes,
    DEEEEEEEP RIFTS!

    I’m quite happy with how my first bread-baking attempt turned out. I was dancing around my kitchen singing “I made bread! I made bread!”

    Mr Darkheart thought I was being exceptionally weird. XD

  234. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Applause, please, for the long-unawaited return of birtherism!

    I wasn’t aware that it ever went away. Yeesh.

  235. says

    Just got a very nice E-mail from what would be the closest German equivalent to Planned Parenthood. After finding out that the damn fucking “Pius Brotherhood” staged a protest against their medical centre, I wrote them and told them that I’m sorry they have to take that and that they’re doing great work. Also that their work extends much further than they might think, because even though I have never used any of their services, they are helping me because I know they’re there.
    I got a heartfelt “thank you, this feels so good” back.
    On the extra-plus side I now know that they indeed perform abortion and vasectomies

  236. consciousness razor says

    The Lone Coyote told me just a few threads ago he wasn’t going to change his mind, in fact that he wasn’t able to do so.

    He apparently takes pride in thinking of himself as the intellectual equivalent of a tiger, or a boar, or some other manly predator; I can’t remember which. This would strike me as close to delusional, but I think it’s safer to assume he was just being dishonest and evasive.

    Whatever the case, he wasn’t arguing in good faith then, so I figure it’d probably be a waste of time to argue with him again. Anyway, I would like it if he could at least be honest enough to admit what would be utter comprehension failures like this:

    I’ll accept squeamishness, I’ll accept the fact that the carnivores are sometimes a bit unpopular at the watering hole, I’ll accept that my ways may be unpalatable to the ‘All my meat comes from styrofoam trays!’ set, but fuck you for implying I get a hardon from killing.

    It isn’t squeamishness. It isn’t about unpopularity, nor do we drink at watering holes (speak for yourself, if you also have that in common with your predator of choice). It also isn’t about being unpalatable, or preferring meat comes on styrofoam trays.

    Are you capable of understanding that some people have real, ethical problems with eating meat? I’m pretty sure you’re not that stupid. You just don’t want to think about it, and it’s easy enough to create a distraction for yourself by beating up on strawmen.

  237. julian says

    Are you capable of understanding that some people have real, ethical problems with eating meat?

    Rorschach’s complaint had nothing to do with eating meat. He called TLC a sick fuck for doing pretty much what farmers do the world over, having the audacity to share it here and doing it with a weapon of his own creation.

    I have not seen Rorschach do this to those posters who have exchanged recipes on how to prepare dead animals (which to be frank sounds like a much more ‘sick’ thing to do) nor have I seen anything approching such a sentiment expressed at the many other posters who have no problem eating meat.

  238. consciousness razor says

    Rorschach’s complaint had nothing to do with eating meat.

    That’s irrelevant, and so are your other objections. The point is that TLC pretends (just as he did in the earlier spat with Walton and myself) as if no such ethical objections exist, that it’s all about squeamishness or something, like we’re a bunch of hypocritical yuppies eating Mickey D’s every day too ignorant to know what happens in a slaughterhouse.

  239. julian says

    That’s irrelevant, and so are your other objections.

    Maybe to your last argument with TLC. I don’t see how they’re irrelevant here.

    The point is that TLC pretends… as if no such ethical objections exist.

    That’s a totally valid reason to have a spat with someone but writing them off them as depraved is about as fair as writing you off as hypocrits.

  240. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    Hekuni, aladegorrian: Thanks.

    So probably, also, it was the Mojave Desert version, still G. agassizi.

    Probably right. I had forgotten about the Mojave/Sonora split with the desert tortoises. Of course, this is also a 40-year-old memory, so I figure I’m just lucky that it is still in there.

    Do you have a theory?

    you mean ‘hypothesis’.

    I was aiming at irony, so I really did mean theory.

    Poor Sherman. So close to the birds, but so far away.

    Well, his standard response to any small animal was to run and hide. Birds scared him.

    Sympathies to Father O. I’ve burried furred friends. It is a heartache.

    Thanks.

    *I see a kitten in your not-too-distant future*

    No, no more. For a while, at least. We still have Dust (the 30+ pounder) and Oreo (the normal cat). Plus the two rats and three fish.

    Ogvorbis, I am very sorry about Sherman. We will all miss being threatened with his presence.

    Those were not threats of his presence. Those were threats of him as a present.

    For the record, we have an elderly, sometimes incontinent cat, but who is nevertheless wise enough to decide that DDMFM is the bestest thing in the universe.

    Sherman had a real thing for Girl’s boyfriend. Other than Wife, the only human he was willing to cuddle with.

    watching the remaining 8 episodes of James Burke’s Connections.

    When I present a tour or program as a Park Ranger, I try to shape them the same way Burke shaped his interpretation — meaningful stories that merge back to the point.

    I’ve lost many cats over the years, and it is excrutiating every time.

    Thanks for your thoughts. He was old and we could see him going over a week or two, so we were able to grieve with him. Helped a lile.

    I think it’s safe to say I made the test way too easy. The idea was to curve it.

    Ah. The ever-elusive self-curving test.

    Ray, rude-ass yankee and Beatrice: Thanks.

    I have been offered that cat (in glowing terms) a number of times in previous threads.

    Thanks for the thoughts. I somehow feel that I was inadequate in my salesmanship.

    It’s not my job to clean up piles of toxic shit.

    I’ve been consciously staying away from mysogyny threads for a while. If they made mental Tyvek I might be more willing. We appreciate your (and others) repeated battles against the concrete minds.

    I’m sorry about the cat. I’m sure he had the best cat-life possible for her ex-him.

    Thanks. If reincarnation were real, I would love to come back as a housecat in a loving house. Heaven on earth. Or as close as one can get.

    Father Ogvorbis, I just read your post about Sherman. I’m really sorry {{a hug, if I may}}

    Hugs are always accepted. Well, the non-freaky ones anyway.

    —————

    TLC:

    I am a knife collector and a knife user. I like weapons as machines and they are a big part of what made me an historian. I am also not, in any way, squeamish about where my meat comes from; I have, on multiple occasions when I lived in Maryland, participated in hog slaughtering. I have also butchered deer, gutted fish, prepped rabbits for cooking, cleaned and dressed lamb, and worked, on farms, with many food animals (okay, the fish and deer were taken wild, but I hope you know what I mean). I could write ten screens on the time I made scrapple; that, to me, would not really be appropriate on this blog. Mentioning it (in context, as I have done) works (though I do have reservations about it on this blog), but no way would I toss in the gory details because I know that there are people, friends, who have ethical and environmental concerns with the idea of human carnivory and I respect (or try to, anyway) the boundaries in a safe (for a specific definitin of safe, anyway) environment.

  241. Carlie says

    TLC has actually taken some pains to distinguish himself from people who like killing for the sake of killing; he’s said it several times that he’s really uncomfortable with those kinds of people. He comes off as enjoying hunting itself and having the skill to be able to make clean fast kills; I’m fairly sure that a fast accurate strike to the neck hurts less than being caught under farming equipment.

    I’ve been trying for several months to participate in my local organic farmer’s monthly chicken processing days, so that I can come full-face to what has to happen to get my food, along with helping out so that they don’t have quite as much work to do by themselves. Just hasn’t worked out any of the days that were open. Does that make me sick and twisted?

    Heck, everyone with a science degree has participated in dissections, which require the killing of animals for no other reason that for us to rip them apart and learn about their insides. I guess I’m not sure why TLC is being singled out as being somehow abnormal for hunting specifically.

  242. julian says

    but no way would I toss in the gory details

    There weren’t really any gory details. It’s why I don’t get where the accusation of getting a hardon from killing came from.

  243. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    but no way would I toss in the gory details

    There weren’t really any gory details.

    Sorry. YOu are correct. Full retraction.

  244. says

    My great-aunts raised rabbits for meat. In Wales, during the war, I’m told – I never saw it personally. I don’t think they were getting hard-ons; it’s really not easy to even imagine this for little old Welsh ladies. Though I suppose they weren’t as old at the time as they are in my childhood memories of them 30 years later.

  245. ChasCPeterson says

    It’s why I don’t get where the accusation of getting a hardon from killing came from.

    It’s because he talks about it all the time.
    Look, it’s a metaphorical hardon, OK?
    Every other post is about hunting, killing, being so-cool for not killing in one particular instance, or fashioning weapons useful for killing.

    You really haven’t noticed this?

  246. theophontes says

    @ Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty

    -Apfelkuchen
    -Schokoladenkuchen
    -Kirschkuchen
    -Hundekuchen

    – Feine Nürnberger Oblatenlebkuchen

    @ Dr Audley

    my first bread-baking attempt

    We are talking about sourdough bread here? With the flesh starter of Her Immaculate Goddess Phoenicia(Polysaccharides Be Upon Her)? Provided by teh High Priest Josh?

    I just got to check the details before I condemn you to eternal hellfire for heresy.

    *checks babble: “gnashing of teeth”, no .. “pillar of salt” … no … “glass darkly”…not quite*

    Look, you might have to wait while I do my research on teh Schisming. I is new to the game… I’ll have to get back to you.

  247. consciousness razor says

    That’s irrelevant, and so are your other objections.

    Maybe to your last argument with TLC. I don’t see how they’re irrelevant here.

    They’re irrelevant to the point I was addressing. I wasn’t trying to address all aspects of everything said on all sides in the current discussion. Give me more time to make additional coffee, and I could write up a long screed detailing numerous incidences of someone being wrong on the internet; but honestly I don’t feel like it, nor do I have the time.

    That’s a totally valid reason to have a spat with someone but writing them off them as depraved is about as fair as writing you off as hypocrits.

    I agree, though judging by his previous comments, he is at least enthusiastic about killings animals and quite unwilling to take into account that others are not for good reasons. Whether that constitutes “depraved” might be a matter of opinion, and personally I think it takes a bit more that. However, it isn’t a matter of opinion whether objections against killing animals all come down to squeamishness and the like. They don’t, and one would have to be dishonest or incredibly oblivious to think they do.

  249. Carlie says

    It’s because he talks about it all the time.

    Well, “tone it down a bit” is a lot different than saying someone is a depraved horrible person. Most of us have topics that we obsess over a bit and can talk about at length while most other people aren’t that interested.

  250. says

    I’m not going to get involved in a debate about vegetarianism or hunting. Not because it isn’t important, but because I can’t deal with the emotional stress of arguing with people at the moment.

    =====

    OK, I read up on Greg’s blog and this is disturbing. I’m not going to comment over there because I don’t want to make matters worse by upsetting her even more. She really, really, really needs help and all I can feel for her is pity and a bit of worry.

    Blu, if you’re reading this, I apologize for being snide to you on B&W. Sit down and have a breather, it’s on me. World’s not out to get you even though it feels that way sometimes. It’s alright to get flustered angry and say things you don’t mean. Really it is. I’m not going to tell you you shouldn’t be mad. Last few months have sucked. This place isn’t good for you and neither are any of us. Emotions are running too high, there’s to much baggage at this point and nobody wants to be wrong.

    QFT. At this point I really think we need to cut her some slack and be a little kinder. (And Greg Laden really hasn’t helped.) And that’s all I’ll say on the subject.

  252. says

    theophontes

    – Feine Nürnberger Oblatenlebkuchen

    hmmmm, one of the best things about christmas time starting earlier and earlier each year.
    Well, people don’t agree wether the ethymology goes back to Latin leaving it as “flat-bread cake” or Germanic “Laib”, making it “loaf-cake”, but in both cases, the root is the form. And they contain oblates. Only not the holy ones, so unless you cut yourself making them, they’re vegetarian.
    But in the other examples all the “cakes” are about what’s in them, while only the “Hundekuchen” is about for whom it is.
    But that works in English as well:
    Chocolate biscuit – doggie biscuit.

    Talking about cake, tonight we’ll have onion-pumpkin-cake :)

  253. Carlie says

    ARGH. My employer uses gmail. All has been fine with this until today. Now Google has “improved” things by making other google services available to their corporate email accounts. What this actually means is that now whenever I go to any other page in my browser, my work gmail login follows me. This means that even if I am at home and on my own time and on my own computer, every web page I visit would become a matter of state public record if I happened to be logged into my work email at the time. Thanks, Google. Thanks a lot. Guess it’s a good thing I have a few browsers installed already so I can force the segregation.

  254. Algernon says

    Try this, Carlie. My school, my employment, my blog (because it was pre-existing) and my youtube account are all separate according to google. They will not allow me to merge the youtube, gmail, and blog accounts.

    I have a separate personal gmail account, but I have to log in through one of two others for school, work, etc.

    Any time I switch ALL OF MY ACCOUNTS SWITCH. This sucks beyond compare and now I’m back to using my fucking hotmail account because it’s such a pain in the ass to deal with switching everything ten times a day.

    Fuck you google.

  256. Algernon says

    I’m not going to get involved in a debate about vegetarianism or hunting.

    Oooh I’m so proud of you! *hugs*

    …

    I’m not much for arguing about it. I eat meat so it would be stupid for me to argue about hunting, or discussion of meat. I eat less meat than many people, but that’s incidental. I used to be vegetarian, though for me it had more to do with a kind of holy purity asceticism thing that fed into a deep neurosis about eating, and fundamentally a rejection or negation of physical existence at all as if I could separate my “soul” from my body or if there is none at least consciously reject the farce. Of course that’s bullshit, and bothering myself about that is just not worth it.

    I don’t have a moral leg to stand on and frankly, I’m ok with that.

    I think the only thing is some people find it socially awkward. Seems like a personality thing to me. Really, it just doesn’t bug me. TLC talks about things that are less boring than what a lot of people talk about, and seems sincere about it. So it’s his main interest and most of what he talks about.

    I like the eccentrics. And it’s easy enough to skip over, so I don’t see the issue. Those who oppose it on moral grounds I won’t argue with either though. If they legitimately oppose it that is fair enough, no?

    As far as calling those who don’t eat meat squeamish, I wouldn’t. People do things for so many different reasons anyway.

  257. says

    So, I’ve gotta find myself a gender counselor. I’ve been talking and muddling it about for almost two years now, and I definitely think it’s about time I get to some manner of counseling on the issue. I keep getting little snips of “you should do this now while you’re still young” from different sources.

    It’s still way too fucking scary for me at the moment, though. I don’t know if I can do it!

  258. says

    I have no problem with TLC’s comments, and I’m not sure when Rorschach was placed in charge of what we want/don’t want to read.

    I have found nothing bloodthirsty or hypocritical in TLC’s comments. We all talk here about what we know and do, some of it I find fascinating, I find some of it disquieting, some of it boring.

    There are killfiles and space bars, I find no excuse for “What kind of a sick fuck are you, and does anyone here want to read this shit ? I really don’t need to be told again and again how you get a hard-on from massacering rabbits, FFS.”

    The sick fucks are the omnivore people who think there isn’t messy killing involved with their food.

    Rorschach, do you eat meat? Fish? If so, I think you should STFU. But, I’m not in charge either.

  259. Mattir says

    I have enjoyed TLC’s discussion of bladed weapons. If I lived closer, I would definitely be looking for some introductory lessons on the making of such things.

    There are real arguments about the ethics of eating meat, and if one wants to have those here, I may or may not participate, depending on my time and energy levels. But to say that mentioning that one has killed animals with a hatchet makes one a pervert (especially when one is not, to my knowledge, a vegetarian) is the sort of bizarre judgmentalism I have come to expect of over-acculturated American teenagers when they learn that the Spawn and I have butchered animals. Strangely enough, the most intense versions of the response tend to come from people who are frequent and enthusiastic consumers of butchered animal parts. Like bacon, for example.

    The scroll button is your friend. I do not always have the time or energy to participate in discussions of immigration policy, incontinent cats, steam technology, or the wonders of wild yeasts. That’s what that nice down arrow is for.

  260. julian says

    If they legitimately oppose it that is fair enough, no?

    I agree and normally would have ignored the initial comment if it hadn’t been so over the top.

    The commenters here have exchanged recipes on how to prepare, decorate and serve meat as well as go on about how delicious they found this or that morsel with no one getting outraged or tossing around accusations of being a sick fuck. Odd when you consider that the creepy factor behind prettying up a dead carcass is about as high as stalking an animal for food. More so because the latter is necessary to actually get the food.

    It’s a strange inconsistency among vegetarians (not saying only vegetarians object to hunting) that I still don’t get. Maybe I’m looking at it the wrong way…

  262. Algernon says

    It’s a strange inconsistency among vegetarians (not saying only vegetarians object to hunting) that I still don’t get. Maybe I’m looking at it the wrong way…

    ‘
    To be sort of fair, a few of my friends are very staunch vegans. I find that they are often as disturbed by recipes and the casual discussion of meat-eating as they are of hunting. It’s just that meat eating is so socially accepted that if they talked about their objections every time it came up they would be socially outcast and end up constantly arguing with people.

    So I can see how that inconsistency can come about just through people not having the energy to constantly argue.

  263. says

    CC,

    I’m afraid someone needs to go back there and look for sourced comments, especially in cases in which trolls use their full names as nyms. Because there was a full-on edit attack on the Slimepit page on the Wiki, BH has been busy..

  264. Algernon says

    Now as for people who eat meat but complain about hunting. I dunno.

    I get squeamish some times but it’s laziness IMO. I got the same way with dissections. You have to kind of stand up to yourself and say “hey, this is what it is…”

  265. julian says

    So I can see how that inconsistency can come about just through people not having the energy to constantly argue.

    That’s probably it.

    _____

    @Katherine Lorraine

    You got this! Look how far you’ve come already.

  266. says

    @Mattir:

    But it’s scary T^T

    @Algernon:

    I’m an odd vegetarian since I don’t have a problem with people eating meat they killed and in fact would be fine eating meat that someone killed. As long as that animal had either a) a fighting chance, or b) been well-cared for before it was killed, then I’m okay with its consumption.

    It’s the factory-farming that I can’t stand, and that’s why I don’t (regularly) eat meat.

  267. says

    That’s not odd, that’s just like my daughter. She called the other day to ask advice on cooking a venison roast…she’s pretty fiercely vegetarian on most things, but it’s all because she has a moral commitment to not abusing animals while they’re alive.

  268. ChasCPeterson says

    Look, I was just following up on Rorschach’s perhaps intemperate comment. It’s not about the ethics of carnivory or veganism or styrofoam packing or abattoirs or even hunting.
    It’s about the empirical observation that TLC really seems to enjoy talking about killing animals. His claim that he doesn’t enjoy doing it is seemingly belied by the fact that he brings it up at every opportunity.
    That’s all.
    I don’t know if TLC is a sick fuck or not, but it’s not an irrational conclusion from his commenting history here. IMO.

  269. says

    @PZ:

    I suppose it’s not that unusual, then. If my uncle still hunted (he has arthritis and diabetes so he can’t anymore) I would have no problem eating the caribou he brought back. He was a real hunter, too. He would go up to north Canada, wait in the snow and cold. If he saw a caribou, he’d try to get it – if not, he wouldn’t have anything. Once had to shoot a bear because he was too close to her den and it was him or her.

    Similarly, if I could find a local farm that raised and butchered its animals, I would eat that meat. Like you said, it’s about abuse. Factory farming is animal abuse.

  270. says

    @julian:

    You got this! Look how far you’ve come already.

    Still is scary. I have an irrationality about me that I build up stupid scenarios and have severe anxiety based off of these worst-case scenarios, so it terrifies me to even try to do what I want. In my mind, despite knowing it’s not likely the case, I have this worry built up in me:

    [insight to Kat’s mind]

    What if they say “you’re crazy”? What if they tell me “you’re not that bad, you don’t need hormones”? What if I’m only acting on some unconcious level and it’s really not as bad as I think it is? What happens if ten years down the line I decide to switch back? What will my family think? What about work? What about my friends? How will I tell my employer? What will I tell my family? Will I be good-looking enough? What about my sex drive? Where will I get the money? What…? Why…? How…? usw, usw, usw…

    [/insight to Kat’s mind]

    Imagine that running through your head 24-7. And that’s only about this one topic. I have that train of thought running through my head about every major decision I have to make. Anyone who was there for my “coming out” at Rhinebeck would notice how freaked out I was when I came to Heatherly / Muse’s room in the skirt and top – that was cause that train of thought was rushing through my head that entire time. After we’d sat down at the restaurant I managed to calm down and have a great time.

    My counselor here at work suggested I go on anti-anxiety medication…

  271. Algernon says

    Katherine, it’s just that hard a decision. It’s made worse because people are scary. But in the end you have to be yourself, and you can’t control whether people will accept you. You can only gravitate toward those who do.

  272. Algernon says

    On a personal note, I have a similarly heavy decision that I have not been able to make for a long time now.

    It’s no good to be stuck, though. That’s for certain.

  273. Psych-Oh says

    Katherine – the anti-anxiety meds might help. Rumination is not a good thing.

    My sister is a also what I would call an “animal ethics” vegetarian. She doesn’t eat most meat. But she will eat chickens that she gets from a local farmer and wild game and freshly caught fish. She is also very particular about milk and eggs and who she gets them from.

  274. says

    “It’s about the empirical observation that TLC really seems to enjoy talking about killing animals. His claim that he doesn’t enjoy doing it is seemingly belied by the fact that he brings it up at every opportunity.”

    That’s not empirical, that’s projection. I don’t get that impression at all.

  276. Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis says

    By the way, has there been any new developments on how the ads are handled? With every thread about women for example, they seem to become more offensive.

  277. Richard Austin says

    Catching up, skipping the wiki and hunting discussions because I don’t really have a stake in either (nor am I fond of steak, though I like fish).

    Darrell E:
    My personal favorite kid’s charity is Child’s Play, but that may be because I’m a gamer. Basically, they buy video games and toys and such for kids in hospitals.

    re:Google Mail et. al.
    The main reason I don’t trust Google is that they have control over a lot of things for some people. If Hotmail fucks up, I lose one of my email accounts. If FB screws me, I lose my social media. If Yahoo gets hacked, I may get exposed on my searches. But if Goggle gets exposed, you’re vulnerable on everything.

    Random:
    I made my annual pilgrimage to Anaheim and the Blizzcon convention. Less “people who really need to shower” than in the past (and by that I mean there was only one person who was extreme; everyone else was in realistic limits), though things were noisier at the hotel than in the past. I also wasn’t as thrilled with the information as I have been, but that’s likely just an off year issue.

  278. julian says

    I’ve had similar monologues running through my mind. I know the arithmatic we do is different (you’ve had to overcome a lot more) but walking up to the same door just to turn back day after day never gets us anywhere. Eventually we have to open it and hope we can say something in an audible voice to the attendant. Or that they look up and notice we’re standing there waiting for a turn say something.

    ((sorry if that comes across as dismissive or insensitive.))

  280. theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme says

    A small glimmer of light coming out of darkest Zimbabwe. (Link:Zimbabwe’s PM Morgan Tsvangirai in gay rights U-turn.)

    With a populist “pig-dog” like Mugabe, one can understand how difficult it is to both get elected and fight against a conservative status quo. Even if Mugabe supporters are in the minority.

  282. says

    I used to be vegetarian, though for me it had more to do with a kind of holy purity asceticism thing that fed into a deep neurosis about eating

    [emphasis added]

    ^^ This is basically the story of my life. (Replacing “vegetarian” and “eating” with whatever my current obsession is at any given time.)

  283. says

    Katherine: *hugs* As a sufferer from severe anxiety, I empathize. I can’t give you any advice on what you should do, but I hope you find a solution that helps you to be at peace with yourself.

  284. Richard Austin says

    Katherine:

    Let me know if you want me to research support services at the Center in West Hollywood. I don’t know if they’ll have a lot of information for out-of-state services but it’s a legit possibility; they may at least know who to ask. Just message me on FB.

  285. Algernon says

    Well Walton, if you ever rise above it all you lose it all there’s nothing. To me, it’s better to live in it while it lasts. That’s the funny part of the joke, I guess.

  286. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    Brother Ogvorbis,
    My condolences on the loss of Sherman. When we lost our dog 6 years ago, we, in our grief, adopted two puppies. When we lost our 21-22 year-old (no one really knows) 3 years ago, we adopted 4 cats. No more animals are allowed to die in our household lest we become crazy dog/cat people. Of course, being assholes, our critters will disobey this injunction.

    You know, the thing is that I really don’t think death of a loved one–furry or not–is any easier for those who believe in deities. It sucks, and nothing mitigates the suckiness.

  287. says

    The Sailor:

    That’s not empirical, that’s projection. I don’t get that impression at all.

    Disagree. While I think Rorschach’s comment was way over the top, I agree with Chas. TLC does talk about hunting/killing animals a *lot*. Too much for my taste, but I just scroll on past.

  288. says

    Katherine Lorraine, congrats on getting a gender counselor! You can do this and it will be okay. Just think about how nice it will be to suffer much less anxiety and to deal with much of that inner dialogue.

  289. Sally Strange, OM says

    Ogvorbis, sorry to hear about your loss. I was very sad when my old cat, Smokey, died at 21 (!) years old, even though I hadn’t lived in the same house with her for ten years. She was still my cat.

    ——————————–

    I think the “memes” page needs to be broken into several different parts, akin to the subdivision of trolls.

    Alas, I am too busy at the moment to do that myself. Perhaps later tonight…

  290. says

    Sally:

    Yes, fully agree. Too busy too, just moved some of the larger ones into own articles. But probably better to classify them according to type, like
    – neologisms
    – creationist strawmen (or something like that)
    – Pharyngula traditions

    etc

  292. says

    Katherine Lorraine:

    Actually, I don’t have one yet. I’m still muddling over getting one, because I’m still terrified by that inner monologue.

    Ah. I’m sorry, I misread. Still, it’s a good idea, eh? That inner monologue isn’t going to go away, probably needs someone to talk with. ;D

  294. Sally Strange, OM says

    Katherine –

    I went and got myself a therapist last week. Obviously, as a cis woman, I have different issues to deal with, but the problem with the inner monologue sounds quite familiar. I’m going in for my second meeting with her later this week, and will be happy to keep you updated.

    Are there many gender counselors to choose from in your area? I found it was helpful to keep in mind for myself that there are many counselors out there, and I’m not going to “click” with all of them. So I called up a number of different people, and narrowed it down to two people by talking on the phone, met with those two in person, then decided that I liked the second one better.

    Hope that helps, if not, well, good luck anyway. I saw some of the pics from Rhinebeck, you looked fantastic!

    –Sally

  297. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Katherine, Walton, others: I confess that I rarely have such an inner dialogue, myself. However it pains you, your inner dialogues are part of what make you interesting people, and beyond that, moral people. Anyway, I don’t want you to get the impression that I derive any joy from the fact that you are anxious. I just find much of what you write to be thought provoking. I wish that I were more reflective.

  299. says

    So I don’t pirate games, but I’ve pirated one this weekend because it is not available for legitimate purchase because Nintendo of America are idiots. The game is already translated into English and recorded; it has released in the European market; but since Wii discs are region locked, I have no way to buy and play it. Nintendo of America have decided it’s just not worth the effort to stamp discs for our market, so fuck ’em. Found and emulator for the home PC and mapped the controls to a gamepad.

    I spent a decent amount of the weekend playing Xenoblade Chronicles, which is most definitely a JRPG. And I’m really enjoying it, although I’m always struck by how chatty the battles in nearly all jrpgs are.

    I needed the break after crazy work stuff and what felt like endless home repair. It was great to kick back and play a new game.

  300. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel says

    Theophontes,
    A-yup, we are talking about Phonecia, which was given to me by our wonderful SpokesGay during the fabulous SpokesGay sleepover.

    Hans Gruber is a way cooler name, anynow. My thought is that since I have to feed it and it’s messy, it’s on par with owning a pet, therefore I gave it a new name.

  301. Moggie says

    myeck waters:

    This just in: Republican presidential candidate finds scientific consensus convincing.

    I assumed that was an Onion headline. It’s depressing to think that the Onion could run such a headline, play the story almost straight, and it would be funny.

  302. says

    Going through my photos of the USF Homecoming Parade on Friday.

    Sturgeon’s (recursive) Law applies again. Of the ~600 shots I took, I’d be comfortable showing about 60 to close friends, and publicly presenting six.

  303. cicely, Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac says

    Some Previous Thread:

    And yes, some sort of bullet-accelerator would have been necessary.
    –
    –
    Directly-Previous Thread:

    I do like the way they display the paperbag method of class in the black community.

    “Paperbag method of class”? Please to explain?
    –

    So let’s be clear; It’s like a tea set?

    And a dessert topping.

    :D
    –

    Stores around here have been carrying Xmas crap since the end of September.

    August.
    –

    It’s a damned shame they don’t donate the other stuff too and prefer to waste it by throwing it out.

    Yes.
    –
    –
    This Here Thread:

    Making shells for hermit crabs.
    –

    Do you have a theory?

    It could be bunnies…

    Or horses.

    There is no depth to which They will not sink.
    –

  304. says

    Question:

    is the Rorschach who got banend for making racist remarks on the Pharyngulawiki and is the person behind http://phawrongula.wikia.com/ also the same Rorschach who appears on TET?

    I think Rorschach is a rather frequent nym on the internet, so I would think not, but just wanted to be sure…

  307. says

    Oh, right Franc Hoggle is also one of the admins at Phawrongula (and it looks like Boggle is the wiki founder), but someone with the nym Rorschach is another admin. And Rorschach left the racist remark on Pharyngulawiki..

  308. Cannabinaceae says

    Shout-out to Ogvorbis: sympathies on kitty-loss. I look at my desk picture of the recently lost Noodle Poodle and want to cry again myself. The new poodle, Toby, not a replacement, shows every sign of being the intellectual equal of the late Daisy, while being very different in personality.

  309. Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis says

    Franc Hoggle must be the most severe case of “really needs to get a life” I have ever seen apart from M*bus.

  310. says

    Other notes from the parade:

    * I got lunged at by a dog. Luckily, the dog’s owner had a firm grip on the leash and was apologetic (I apologized for getting too close, too).

    * One of the floats was handing out energy drinks. I kid you not.

    * It’s generally not wise to try to skateboard alongside a float when floats in front of you are throwing beads and candy, unless your skateboard has all-terrain wheels.

    * I really should’ve used my 50mm f/1.8 instead of my 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS. I would have had to get closer, but I could also use a much shorter exposure. Heck, even my 100mm f/2.8 Macro would have been better.

    * If anyone wants to buy me a gift, a 70-200 f/2.8L or 400 f/2.8L would not be unappreciated… ;-)

    * A single set of NiMH AAs in the flash unit lasted me the entire parade with no noticeable slowdown. Someone remind me why I have six sets? (Plus a set of NiZn batteries.)

  311. Therrin says

    slignot,

    Xenoblade Chronicles

    Interesting. I liked the Xenosaga games, didn’t know there was another storyline out. Looks like it got some good reviews.

  312. Ing says

    Franc Hoggle must be the most severe case of “really needs to get a life” I have ever seen apart from M*bus.

    How are you supposed to mock someone like that? You can’t use hyperbole because they are literally angrily masturbating at their computer.

  314. First Approximation, Much Cooler In Cyberspace says

    http://phawrongula.wikia.com/

    Wow, you know you’ve made it when someone does a poor spoof! Or it just means someone is a bit obsessed. Although, there’s only 7 articles, and two of them are ‘Secular Blacklisting’ and ‘Secular Shaming’.

    (Oh and, I kid you not, there’s also ‘The Michele Bachman Hotdog Incident’.)

    Anyway, from ‘Secular Blacklisting’:

    A curious feature of the Dungeon is that it resides on Freethoughtblogs itself – and does not have a single female entry, unlike the Pharyngula wiki which has no inhibition about shaming females. This is another curious artifact of PZ Myers quite bizarre views on gender relations.

    I’m not sure how curious it is that a list of people banned from a blog at Freethoughtblogs is on Freethoughtblogs. Or that he can he tell that there’s no females in the dungeon? Sure, you can bet people like David M*bus or Phil G**rdanaare are males, but how does he know that does with gender neutral pseudonyms aren’t female? Also, the Freethoughtblogs Dungeon is fairly new. At the old site there definitely were female Dungeon dwellers (e.g, Susan Williams, Barb).

  315. Sili says

    Someone doesn’t like the Internet.

    –o–

    A single set of NiMH AAs in the flash unit lasted me the entire parade with no noticeable slowdown. Someone remind me why I have six sets? (Plus a set of NiZn batteries.)

    I went through three pairs of alkalines on a three hour cruise …

  316. Sili says

    Stores around here have been carrying Xmas crap since the end of September.

    August.

    Any of you Yorkshiremen by any chance?

  317. First Approximation, Much Cooler In Cyberspace says

    Interestingly, the ‘Secular Shunning’ article criticizes our Rorschach:

    It should be noted that the Rorschach referenced above also attempted, in a massive blast of hypocrisy, to launch a complaint campaign against Abbie Smith to effectively censor her blog and, if possible, have it shut down entirely

    Also, this bit on Ophelia Benson is…umm…interesting:

    Ophelia Benson’s modus operandi is markedly different to the full frontal assault on Bluharmony, and is far more insidious and persistent. Rather than large single defamatory articles, Benson relies on a large volume of small damaging snippets – the ultimate aim is to poison Abbi Smith’s reputation by poisoning Google, so that it will not be possible to locate information on Abbie without running into references to “cunt”, “rape apologist” and worse.

    Ophelia Benson does not seek to merely harm – she seeks to destroy. [Emphasis added]

    Wow, this is the most fucked up wiki I’ve seen since Conservapedia.

  318. says

    “I went through three pairs of alkalines on a three hour cruise …”

    Well sure, but those were D cells;-)

    (“… a three hour cruise ♪ “)

  319. Ing says

    Bluharmony

    the WormLawyer keeps popping up I notice. I’m again quite annoyed how she cries about how her reputation would be hurt while engaging with this bullshit.

    I back what I said. This level of casual two-faced sniviling makes her an IDEAL lawyer.

    Ok that’s too mean…I shouldn’t insult lawyers.

  320. says

    Alkalines don’t play nice with flashes. Flashes draw too much power too quickly, so alkalines waste a lot of power in internal resistance. Not to mention that alkaline batteries generally have slightly less capacity.

    I use alkalines for devices that will be infrequently used or draw very little power, since their self-discharge is so low; high-drain devices get NiMHs (or NiZns).

  321. says

    Oh, and apparently some in the New Hampshire legislature are pushing to eliminate marriage equality. The vote is apparently up tomorrow for the House’s Judiciary committee on a bill that simply reeks of the type of language used by NOM (the National Organization for Marriage, hah!).

    The vast majority of children are conceived by acts of passion between men and women-sometimes unintentionally. Because of this biological reality, New Hampshire has a unique, distinct, and compelling interest in promoting stable and committed martial unions between opposite-sex couples so as to increase the likelihood that children will be born to and raised by both of their natural parents. No other domestic relationship presents the same level of state interest.

    I love when they pretend that this has a fucking thing to do with children rather than open hatred of gay people. It can’t have been more than two weeks ago that NOM attacked a publicly gay politician personally after the birth of his child. He and his husband were thrilled to be parents, but NOM openly attacked them on Twitter for robbing a child of a mother.

  322. Algernon says

    but someone with the nym Rorschach is another admin. And Rorschach left the racist remark on Pharyngulawiki..

    If the two Rorschachs are the same person I will eat my shoes.

  323. says

    @Ing, after what Japanese developers did with the stories of Enoch, I’m almost curious to see what Xenoblade Christmas would look like. It’s always interesting to see how Jewish and Christian themes get introduced and changed in the lens of JRPGs; they get included a lot, but things like angels=good and demons=bad don’t get translated over in the way you might always expect. I’ve always found it fascinating.

    During a mythology course I ended up writing a short paper (comparatively speaking) about how commons myths get changed and incorporated into game design in this way.

  324. says

    If the two Rorschachs are the same person I will eat my shoes.

    I also once knew a Rorschach on a Houston local politics forum who was pretty much a teabagger (I wasn’t posting there, only following some news on Houston politics, as the Chronicle is not all that great a newspaper).

    Might I suggest some differentiating suffix for our Rorschach ;)

  325. cicely, Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac says

    Father Ogvorbis, I’m sorry to hear about your cat.*hugs*? *bacons*? *boozes*? *chocolates*? All available. Take what you want/need/are willing to accept.
    –
    There may not be many people who seem to have no real awareness that the meat they meet in the grocery store used to be parts of living, breathing animals…but there are some. I’ve met a couple. It’s…stunning…like they thought there was a Meat Fabricating Plant somewhere that just extruded steaks, or roasts, or whatever, depending on how the Meat Machine was set, like a plastics plant making plates and bowls out of little pellets. It was almost like they thought they lived in a world where Star Trek‘s food replicators were really real.

    FWIW
    –

    It’s still way too fucking scary for me at the moment, though. I don’t know if I can do it!

    Katherine Lorraine, I have faith in believe in am sure you can do it!
    –

    “It’s about the empirical observation that TLC really seems to enjoy talking about killing animals. His claim that he doesn’t enjoy doing it is seemingly belied by the fact that he brings it up at every opportunity.”
    That’s not empirical, that’s projection. I don’t get that impression at all.

    I don’t, either. The impression I get is more that he enjoys the hunting, as an activity.

    I believe he also speaks eloquently on his journey away from MRA-esque assholishness.
    –

  326. Sili says

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/24/richard-dawkins-jesus-would-have-been-an-atheist/

    “I wrote and article called ‘Atheists for Jesus,’ I think it was… Somebody gave me a t-shirt: ‘Atheists for Jesus.’ Well, the point was that Jesus was a great moral teacher and I was suggesting that somebody as intelligent as Jesus would have been an atheist if he had known what we know today.”

    For once I’ll have to agree that Dawkypoo really needs to study more theology – or at least the friggin’ Bible – before he spouts off. Srsly?

  327. Sili says

    Alkalines don’t play nice with flashes. Flashes draw too much power too quickly, so alkalines waste a lot of power in internal resistance. Not to mention that alkaline batteries generally have slightly less capacity.

    I had no idea.

    Thanks.

  330. ChasCPeterson says

    Fuck but people are opaque.
    The empirical observation was simply that he brings it up and talks about it a lot.
    Period.

    It’s not projection, it’s counting.

  331. Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis says

    Sili,

    The original article is more nuanced (although not the most coherent thing Dawkins has ever written)

    http://richarddawkins.net/articles/20-atheists-for-jesus

    The best I can offer is what I hope may be a catchy slogan. ‘Atheists for Jesus’ would grace a T-shirt. There is no strong reason to choose Jesus as icon, rather than some other role model from the ranks of the super nice such as Mahatma Gandhi (not the odiously self-righteous Mother Teresa, heavens no). I think we owe Jesus the honour of separating his genuinely original and radical ethics from the supernatural nonsense which he inevitably espoused as a man of his time.

  332. chigau (meh) says

    … yesterday marked the 4th anniversary of The Digital Cuttlefish going public …

    Send cake!

  334. Russell says

    Holy Hambones,PZ !

    The NYTimes obit of Swami Baktipadma, the Hari Krishna panjandrum who pled guilty to federal racketeering charges including conspiracy to murder two devotees, reveals the late great fake fakir was the son of Peekskill NY Baptist preacher .

    According to his brother , Gerald Ham :

    “My father would fit in very well with some of the evangelical people we have today raising such a ruckus,” Mr. Ham said. “The Bible was inerrant. We were all indoctrinated and baptized and so forth. Keith, too.”

    Keith Ham earned a bachelor’s degree in history from Maryville College in Maryville, Tenn., in 1959, graduating first in his class of 118. As a senior, he received a prestigious Woodrow Wilson fellowship for graduate study.

    He entered the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill to pursue a doctorate in American religious history. But in the early 1960s, his brother said, the university asked him to leave after a love affair he had with a male student came to light. ”

    Are there plans to install the Swami as a Creation Museum exhibit, or is it limited to children of another Ham?

  335. Dhorvath, OM says

    Ah shit Ogvorbis, a kitty passing is always hard. Eighteen is pretty stupendous though. Take care.
    ___

    My son asked when he could have a husband at the bank one day. Mom replied: twenty three. He was happy and continued about his day. (We were married at twenty three just to make the number make some degree of sense)
    ___

    Katherine,
    You have done so much and shared much of it with us here, we have a great deal of respect for you and faith that you will continue to make the correct decisions for your life.

  336. Carlie says

    Perhaps Dr. Rorschach?

    Ben, sounds like an interesting parade!

    Katherine, hugs and courage to you. It sounds like the right step to take. I know you can do it. :)

    We’re starting to feel the pangs of needing kitties around the house. I thought it was just me, but spouse out of the blue the other day started talking about when we get another one. It’s a weird time – it’s too fresh and hurts too much and feels like a replacement, but it also feels so empty around the house without one. :(

  337. cicely, Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac says

    I assumed that was an Onion headline. It’s depressing to think that the Onion could run such a headline, play the story almost straight, and it would be funny.

    I jumped to the same conclusion. Of course, since AFAIK no-one is seriously proposing McCain as a Presidential candidate in 2012, he is now free to agree with Science without having to fear alienating the precious Republican Base.

    (Oh, if only that were funny.)
    –

    Any of you Yorkshiremen by any chance?

    Not me. Mid-America.
    –

    Whenever I see NiMH, I think of mice.

    Me, too. And “sparklies”.
    :D
    –
    Caught up at last!
    :)
    –

  339. Rey Fox says

    The vast majority of children are conceived by acts of passion between men and women-sometimes unintentionally. Because of this biological reality, New Hampshire has a unique, distinct, and compelling interest in promoting stable and committed martial unions between opposite-sex couples so as to increase the likelihood that children will be born to and raised by both of their natural parents. No other domestic relationship presents the same level of state interest.

    Could somebody explain the logical flow between these sentences? Because I sure can’t find it.

    Re: Rorschach: I would personally suggest that our Rorschach change his nym simply because the name Rorschach seems to be a magnet for fascist-nerd vigilante wannabes, which I’m sure is a category that the Phawrongula Rorschach falls into. But he’s free to nym how he wants to nym.

  340. Tethys says

    The empirical observation was simply that he brings it up and talks about it a lot.

    My empiric observation is that we were actually discussing flint-knapping, how to identify knapping stone, and metal-smithing. The rabbit comment was an aside on one use of a tool.

    To insinuate that TLC is a sick pervert because he slaughtered and ate a domestic rabbit is hyperbolic and rather nasty.
    —–

    Speaking of nasty, Hoggle is completely obsessed with the term alpha. I wonder if he has ever come across the term Bellwether?
    It’s pretty clear that he has a twisted outlook on life.

  341. Richard Austin says

    ChasCPeterson :

    Fuck but people are opaque.
    The empirical observation was simply that he brings it up and talks about it a lot.
    Period.

    It’s not projection, it’s counting.

    Really? Because I just counted.

    6 posts that I can find in the last two threads (counting this one isn’t really fair).
    1 post remotely related to hunting (fashioning a handle for a knife).

    These could be off by one, somewhere, but not significantly.

    Is that “a lot” by your standard?

    I admit, this sample may be off, and TLC’s hunting sometimes comes up and generates a conversation – such as with the bear hunt, when the fur itself as well as “bits” became a subject – but you can hardly fault TLC for making one post that then starts a conversation.

    But the notion of “a lot” seems to be inapplicable.

  342. cicely, Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac says

    Fuck but people are opaque.

    Certainly true in my case; I am far too thick to be translucent or transparent. (The “density” jokes just write themselves at this point.)

    But seriously, and assuming my inclusion in the “opacity” comment, I was speaking to what I perceived as disbelief on someone’s part (don’t remember who; am far too lazy to scroll up and find out) that some people have an apparent disconnect between grocery-store-bought meat, real animals, and the slaughter of same.
    –

  344. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    Re: Rorschach: I would personally suggest that our Rorschach change his nym simply because the name Rorschach seems to be a magnet for fascist-nerd vigilante wannabes, which I’m sure is a category that the Phawrongula Rorschach falls into. But he’s free to nym how he wants to nym.

    It’s deliberate. They really hate our Rorschach.

  345. says

    Ah, I finally googled Rorschach, I haven’t read or seen Watchmen, so that’s another cultural gap I’ve filled.

    I was mostly thinking of the Rorschach test, but I don’t think that’d be a nutjob magnet in particular.

  346. says

    Could somebody explain the logical flow between these sentences? Because I sure can’t find it.

    I think it goes like this:
    1. We really hate gay people
    2. We don’t want to be seen as hating gay people
    3. I know, let’s pretend we’re in favor of good things like happy marriages and families, and no one will look deeper and call us out on hating gay people.

  347. opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces says

    August? August??? Luxury! Don’t know you’re born, you lot. Now when I were nobbut a lass we ‘ad to put up Christmas decorations seventeen months before lammastide – wi’ our teeth, mind, we never ‘ad none o’ yer fancy furrin’ thumbtacks – an’ we ‘ad to hold ’em in place until fourteen month past michaelmas wi’out so much as a ha’penny’s worth o’ figgy pudding to be going on wi’ ….

    … is what I think Sili may have been referring to :-D

  348. Algernon says

    They really hate our Rorschach.

    As quirky as our Rorschach is, they can’t possibly understand just how infinitely more happy I would be to spend time in his presence than any one of theirs.

  349. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    As quirky as our Rorschach is, they can’t possibly understand just how infinitely more happy I would be to spend time in his presence than any one of theirs.

    Indeed.

  350. opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces says

    Oops, sorry , that was re Cicely #337 and Sili somewhere way upthread :-)

  351. Therrin says

    Dhorvath,

    My son asked when he could have a husband at the bank one day.

    Banks are dealing in husbands now?

  353. Tethys says

    compelling interest in promoting stable and committed martial unions between opposite-sex

    Typo or Freudian slip?

    I’m sure adoptive parents are happy to be informed that they couldn’t possibly be good parents unless they actually contribute genes to a child. /sarcasm

  354. says

    As quirky as our Rorschach is, they can’t possibly understand just how infinitely more happy I would be to spend time in his presence than any one of theirs.

    QF freakin’ T.

    That Franc Hoggle is a really nasty piece of work.

  355. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    If I bring up hunting, bushcraft, and weapons a lot, it’s because that’s what I know. I’m on disability, I don’t got a job, and there was definitely one spring that hunting saved me from starvation. I suppose I should tone it back though, and in that spirit I will now talk about other more benign topics.

    Ahhh, Franc Hoggle. I had too much fun the last time I talked to him. How does a guy who reacts like he does survive for any length of time on the Internet?

  357. says

    @Tethys, that is definitely my typo. I was copying from an image so I couldn’t copy paste.

    But I totally agree on your points on adopted children. It is incomprehensible to me that there is some sort of super-special glitter status for “real” children which adopted children will never be able to match with parents who love the shit out of them.

  358. says

    Ahhh, Franc Hoggle. I had too much fun the last time I talked to him.

    I didn’t. My last foray into the Slimepit was not “fun” by any stretch of the imagination. (Thankfully I haven’t been back there for some time.)

  359. Dhorvath, OM says

    Therrin,
    It was a long story involving insurance which we deal with at our credit union, my absence and questions about me, my son being present and so on. Sadly we can’t just pop into the bank and pick up a new male companion or two, I know my wife wouldn’t complain so long as there was some selection available. One size does not fit all.

  360. says

    *tries to imagine The Walton saying “freakin’”*

    Bloody hell!

    *giggles*

    The only word I really can’t say, without sounding ridiculous, is “dude”. It is just not well-adapted to the British accent.

  361. Dhorvath, OM says

    Dude, you just need to hang out in my circles for a bit, I have trouble excising it from my vocab.

  362. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Walton: Yeah, it definitely depends on your definition of ‘fun’. But I can’t lie, I enjoyed poking Hoggle and watching him explode with froth.

    Is he still clinging desperately to the notion that we were offended by his use of ‘bad words’ like ‘cunt’, and not the fact that he had expressed a desire to kick a woman in the crotch?

    That way, he can feel like a rebel fighting against oppressive censorship and sticking up for freedom of speech, instead of an angry little misogynist trying to silence someone he disagrees with.

  363. Tethys says

    slignot

    I pulled the martial quote out of Rey Fox’s post.

    Did I miss a previous post by you?

  364. Muse (evidently temptress of Pharyngula women) says

    RE: TLC – yes, he talks about hunting a lot. Walton talks about the Monarchy a lot. I don’t think depraved is a fair cop unless you’re generalizing to all meat eaters.

    Kat – three things.

    Thing one – there are meat vendors at many of the farmers’ markets in our area. I know this, because that is where I buy my meat – I’m part of a meat CSA.

    Second, I can ask around for who my trans* friends in the area see if you’d like.

    Last, do me a favor and try not to use my actual name – it’s pretty unusual.

  365. says

    Good evening

    Concerning fake Rorschachs, since you said you couldn’t remember posting on any recent circumcision-threads (#227), there are posts that really look like the Rorschach in TET. If this wasn’t you, probably you should take steps.

    Katherine
    Your inner dialogues sound hard, I can only imagine how it must be for you. I agree with the others: you’ve come far already, and you’ll solve this to a satisfactory end. Take care!

    Eating meat
    I try to get most of our meat from the local organic farm/butcher. Their standard ensures a lot of animal wellfare when they are alive, they are slaughtered a short distance from their farms, so no transportation through half of Europe. Since their meat/sausages are awefully expensive, that reduces our consumption automatically.
    So todays usage was 150g of bacon on a meal for 5 people which will be enough to serve the three of us tomorrow, too. For my personal standard, that’s ok.
    But I really enjoy their quality, especially for the more processed stuff like paté and sausages.
    I actually have more of a problem with the fact that there’s food spent on pigs and cattle which is lacking in the third world to feed children.

  366. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    I actually have more of a problem with the fact that there’s food spent on pigs and cattle which is lacking in the third world to feed children.

    I’ve eaten cow corn before. It’s uh, not exactly gourmet dining. It tastes much better once it’s been converted into a steak or ribs, trust me. Much easier to chew too.

    Yes, I realize I’m ignoring the fact that they can use the same space to grow ‘people corn’ instead.

    My problems with modern factory farming methods aren’t just the reason I hunt, they’re also the reason I have my two (ILLEGAL, apparently,) pet chickens for eggs.

  367. Sili says

    Dear Programmers and Graph Theoreticians,

    I’ve just been struggling with assembling study groups for my highschoolers by trial-and-error puzzlesolving.

    I realise this stupid.

    I have little (26×26) matrix of peoples’ likes and dislikes (wants and donotwants) – somebody must have solved that problem at million times.

    So my question is: What sorta algorithm am I looking for to split my matrix into submatrices where all the entries are either 1s (likes) og 0s (don’t cares), but never -1s (dislikes)? There must be some way of defining and optimum and finding it, that doesn’t involve brute force.

    I suck at programming, but I’m willing to try to relearn some Python and/or Java if you can point to what it is I need to implement.

  368. Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis says

    Sili, that’s an intriguing problem, although I can’t name an algorithm from the top of my head. If you don’t mind about finding the optimal solution, you might start by dropping the distinction between 1 and 0. This seems to make the task much simpler.

  369. Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis says

    In terms of linear algebra, the question now is how to act with a suitable permutation matrix from the left and right such that you obtain a block-diagonal matrix, in which the blocks are then your study groups. Maybe graph theory is better suited for this.

  370. ChasCPeterson says

    OK, I give up. Clearly, the arbitrary protocols of European royalty and killing small animals are equivalent obsessions. Whatever.

  371. chigau (meh) says

    TLC
    There are several cities in Canada that permit back-yard chickens.
    and several more looking into it.
    Your chooks my not be ILLEGAL for much longer.

  372. Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis says

    Hm, this may be harder than I thought. The matrix does of course not have to be symmetric, because affection may not be mutual. Of course, I assume that no-one dislikes themselves, but the block-diagonal form which i described above may not be obtainable in this situation.

  373. Sili says

    Sili, that’s an intriguing problem, although I can’t name an algorithm from the top of my head. If you don’t mind about finding the optimal solution, you might start by dropping the distinction between 1 and 0. This seems to make the task much simpler.

    Perhaps, but I know far too little to even know that much.

    But socially the distinction is pretty important, and I’d like to respect it as much as possible.

    Of course, my trial-and-error did exactly what you suggested. Focused on the people who did not want to be grouped, and secondarily tried to fit in as many “wants” as I could.

    I can’t help but think that with the enormous interest in social networks, there must already be software to do this. But I have no idea where to begin – what’s free? What’s easy?

  374. Sili says

    The matrix does of course not have to be symmetric, because affection may not be mutual.

    Bingo!

  375. says

    TLC

    I’ve eaten cow corn before. It’s uh, not exactly gourmet dining. It tastes much better once it’s been converted into a steak or ribs, trust me. Much easier to chew too.

    As somebody who doesn’t like beef, and who has a fond memory of stealing one corn cob each holiday as a child, which I would then roast in butter and eat, I have to disagree ;)
    Oh, nd if you should ever come to our place, remember: Rabbits are friends, not food.
    Even though today I’ve been savaged by one of them. They are the greediest critters on this planet…

    Good night, everybody

  376. Sili says

    Clearly, the arbitrary protocols of European royalty and killing small animals are equivalent obsessions.

    And often related.

  377. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Here’s hoping, Chigau. If it was legal, and I had the right space and equipment, I’d love to experiment a bit with selective breeding. Try to create the ultimate ‘urban chicken’ breed.

    It should be calm, hardy, fairly self reliant, and quiet. I’d try to select for more long-term production, as opposed to most commercial breeds which are supposed to produce intensely for a year or two before being ‘disposed of’.

    Raising backyard chickens is ridiculously easy and economical. All of these suburban backyards could be producing food, instead of just useless lawns.

  378. says

    ChasC, you included this gem: “It’s about the empirical observation that TLC really seems to enjoy talking about killing animals. His claim that he doesn’t enjoy doing it is seemingly belied by the fact that he brings it up at every opportunity.”

    Once again, [strike]projection[/strike] difference of interpretation. I see no joy in killing in his writing, and as I recall, most of his spontaneous comments are about creating edged weapons/art. And sometimes hunting. IOW, he talks about his hobbies, as do most of us.

    BTW, if you meant to say ‘dense’, say dense, opacity is not something I associate with my writings. I thought they were clear.
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    Katherine, surely it’s better to talk to a therapist than not talk to one. It’s not an irrevocable decision, it’s a major step, but not irrevocable. Regardless, you seem like a strong person to me and I think you will make the right decision for you.

    Your strength impresses me.
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    opposablethumbs, nice Python reference. The funny thing to me is that we were doing that in my house long before I heard of Python. I guess it’s a universal “when I was a kid” meme. My Dad’s stump speech included “I wasn’t born in a log cabin, but we moved into one as soon as we could afford it.”

    I think I was 17 before I realized he hadn’t written it.
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    BTW, great quotes here about poverty and the poor.

    e.g.

    “The poverty of our century is unlike that of any other. It is not, as poverty was before, the result of natural scarcity, but of a set of priorities imposed upon the rest of the world by the rich. Consequently, the modern poor are not pitied but written off as trash. The twentieth-century consumer economy has produced the first culture for which a beggar is a reminder of nothing.

    ~ John Berger ~

    +++++++++++++++++++++
    TLC, you got dinged a couple of times, I considered Rorschach’s over the top. This is a community, not everyone agrees all the time. Don’t stop being yourself here (until everyone ignores you or jumps on you repeatedly, then you might want to rethink some things;-)

    +++++++++++++++++++++
    Not that I get a vote, but I think Rorschach should have a minor ‘nym mod. His ‘nym is a might obvious and prevalent around the web.

  379. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Giliell: Animals are ‘individuals’ to me. A rabbit that was raised as a pet, and has bonded to humans, and who has humans bonded to it, is a completely different animal to one that was raised for meat or completely wild.

    So yes, friend not food.

    As somebody who doesn’t like beef, and who has a fond memory of stealing one corn cob each holiday as a child, which I would then roast in butter and eat, I have to disagree ;)

    But was it ‘Cow corn’, or ‘human corn’? There’s a difference out here, and eating cow corn, even well done, is like trying to eat a tree.

    I like stealing corn too, btw.

  380. chigau (meh) says

    I’d like to keep chickens but we’d need to cover the whole yard in wire to keep the falcons from killing them.
    I’d also like ducks or geese ’cause they eat slugs and attack trespassers.

  381. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel says

    Sili:

    Any of you Yorkshiremen by any chance?

    Uh…
    … No?

    (I feel like I’m missing something here.)

  382. Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis says

    Any of you Yorkshiremen by any chance?

    No, but I’ve eaten a rancid cucumber sandwich once while watching one play cricket. Does that count?

  383. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    TLC: Yeah. Cow corn is gross…almost waxy with no sweetness at all. And it gets stuck in your teeth something awful.

    Gilliel: Do they grow corn for livestock in Europe*? I thought that they were still reliant on the sugar beet for fodder.

    *I am under the impression (for no reason that I can put my finger on) that Europe is where you grew up. If I am wrong, feel free to mock me.

  385. says

    Sili – “What sorta algorithm am I looking for to split my matrix into submatrices where all the entries are either 1s (likes) og 0s (don’t cares), but never -1s (dislikes)? There must be some way of defining and optimum and finding it, that doesn’t involve brute force.”

    I think what you are looking for is the tool, not the algorithm. I forget, are you a student? If so, MATLAB has excellent student prices. All you have to do is select A >-1.

    Your array, (I don’t think it’s a matrix), will be populated with only those numbers.

    This probably didn’t help.

  386. onion girl, OM; imaginary lesbian says

    How are you supposed to mock someone like that? You can’t use hyperbole because they are literally angrily masturbating at their computer.

    I adore you, Ing. :)

    ∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞
    Kat, I second Muse–say the word and I will scour my social work contacts for good gender therapists.

  387. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel says

    Dhorvath:
    It all comes back to Monty Python, doesn’t it?

  391. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Onion girl and ING:

    How are you supposed to mock someone like that? You can’t use hyperbole because they are literally angrily masturbating at their computer.

    I adore you, Ing. :)

    I’m sure this has been done to death, but I can’t stop picturing the little guy from “Labyrinth” with his hand down his pants and a furious scowl on his face.

    ….*shudders* Yick.

  392. says

    I’ve never stole corn, berries, apples, pears, &c., I was liberating them.
    +++++++++++++++++
    Hi Dhorvath, I think bicycles can be beautiful too!

    I like machinery. I’m a form follows function guy.

  393. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel says

    Speaking of turtles:
    My turtle showed some interest in coming out of her tank for the first time in like a month (even though it’s rather cold in here). Yay! She’s been chasing me around the apartment and hissing at the cats.

    Fun times.

  394. Tethys says

    Clearly, the arbitrary protocols of European royalty and killing small animals are equivalent obsessions.

    And often related.

    Who advocated for eating European royalty?

    Corns Evil Plot to Rule the World

    What if human consciousness isn’t the end-all and be-all of Darwinism? What if we are all just pawns in corn’s clever strategy game to rule the Earth? Author Michael Pollan asks us to see the world from a plant’s-eye view

  395. says

    Audley, I would love to see that! That sounds adorable, although I’m trying to picture a hissing turtle. I’ll have to search for videos later.

  396. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    Who advocated for eating European royalty?

    …
    …
    *shamefacedly raises her hand* It was me.

  397. Philip Legge says

    Giliell,

    I’m pretty sure that comment is the real McCoy; perhaps our ECO should be on the lookout for any unusual IP addresses for Rorschach’s posts – his recent holiday will perhaps have resulted in some anomalous IPs. (As far as I know the majority of my own postings tend to be from two fairly narrow IP ranges depending on whether I’m using broadband or a 3G access point.)

    I notice Michael Kingsford Gray surfaced in the Slimepit wiki page’s comments to request his name be taken off the motley list of misogynists – which is fine by me, though the record will amply show that he has been as active as most of the other names in revelling in the continuing character assassination of Rebecca Watson as well as other targets. Presumably his rationale of ‘plausible deniability’ is that the trollish outpourings of others is viewed as humour and thus “it was actually the others like Hoggle and Justicar that were indulging in a bit of a joke abusing Watson and others, I am only acting as the straight man”. Well, that doesn’t wash: the clearly misogynistic ‘humour’ of Hoggle and company marks them out as not being decent, civilised human beings on this issue, and by associating himself so obviously for the previous three months, neither is MKG.

    (I find it somewhat surprising that the intersection of atheism or scepticism with rabid unreasoning anti–feminism is not an empty set, and I find that on other topics many of these people have reasonable and well-argued viewpoints that I can respect and agree with: but on issues touching on masculinity or feminism, suddenly it’s shrieking hyperbolic testeria.)

  399. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel says

    slignot:
    On of these days, I’ll have to record Emery hissing. It’s adorable and not at all threatening. Here’s a much much much smaller* red eared slider hissing and scampering.

    You know what’s even cuter? TURTLE YAWNS. OMG! TURTLES YAWN! Ri-freaking-diculous!

    *Emery’s shell is right around 11″ long.

  400. says

    Who advocated for eating European royalty?

    It’s hard to tell sometimes on the internet if people are joking or not, but this was an allusion to this. What I find bizarre is that in protest, an artist once ate a corgi.

  402. Sili says

    What I find bizarre is that in protest, an artist once ate a corgi.

    That can’t be healthy.

    Fat little fuckers.

  403. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    but on issues touching on masculinity or feminism, suddenly it’s shrieking hyperbolic testeria.

    I think the issue is that a lot of these are extremely personal to some people, tightly wrapped up in their self image.

    What irks me about Hoggle is that he accused us all of being ‘sex negative’ feminists or something. I literally have yet to see anyone here who I’d call ‘sex negative’. No, most of us here seem to have a pretty positive image of (consenting, mutually enjoyable, non manipulative and non abusive) sex.

    Of course, a guy who thinks a woman deserves to get kicked in the genitals for expressing opinions he doesn’t like could definitely be seen as having a ‘negative’ attitude towards sex, but that goes without saying.

    At this point, I think he’s deliberately ignoring the real reason we have a problem, instead preferring to act like what we have a problem with is sexuality, or his use of ‘strong language’. Is this a correct time to use the term ‘Strawman’? It sure feels like that, but I’ve seen the term a bit abused in the past.

  405. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Turtles are awesome. It depresses me how pet stores sell them though. Well, almost any reptile really, but turtles seem to be a major one.

    One persistent, obnoxious, and cruel myth I keep running into is ‘Reptiles grow to the size of their cage.’ Horseshit, of course, but turtles are cute and most people think the pet store guy knows what he’s talking about. It seems people are buying these cute little red-eared slider hatchlings under the impression they can just keep it in a 10 gallon forever.

  407. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel says

    Laughing Coyote:

    It seems people are buying these cute little red-eared slider hatchlings under the impression they can just keep it in a 10 gallon forever.

    Gah. People are so goddamn stupid.

    Emery is about 25 years old– my sister-in-law gave* her to me this summer, so I’m still learning the ropes. But even I’m not that dumb.

    *read: turtle dumped.

  408. chigau (meh) says

    re pelamun’s link @400
    British fox-hunting.
    Couldn’t they keep up all the traditions (tally-ho!) of the hunt but leave out the fox?
    They could use a human volunteer.
    [/end Swift]

  409. says

    Ogvorbis, I’m so sorry to hear about Sherman.

    ***

    Once again, [strike]projection[/strike] difference of interpretation. I see no joy in killing in his writing,

    Well, there was this thread:

    We are animals just like any other, and I happen to be an animal with very developed predatory instincts. It’s not pretty, I admit. One of the many reasons I don’t think I’ll ever fully fit into society.

    After an extended complaint about not being allowed to kill geese with his bare hands.

  410. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Chigau: I’m no expert on British foxhunting, but I was under the impression that some versions of the sport are ‘all about the chase’, and the fox is allowed to escape unharmed at the end.

  412. says

    I used to defend (the British version of) fox-hunting. I would no longer do so. I think it’s wrong, and I support the ban.

  413. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Dr Audley: In my old town there was a pond in the woods that was just crawling with turtle-dumped red eared sliders. The turtles didn’t seem to mind, but I’m sure there are many local species that did. I’m also pretty sure that BC already has its own native painted turtle population, though the ones up at Ruby Lake could have easily been an introduced species as well. Clearly I need more research.

    SC: I was gonna use my atlatl. :(

  416. says

    chigau,

    if you feel for the foxes, you can console yourself with Japanese myths about foxes changing into human shape (albeit with a “tell-tale tail”) luring hapless wanderers to their deaths.

  418. says

    SC – “Not only did I post a picture of one of the cats,…I showed him the post.”

    It’s not the ‘lowest form of blogger’ unless you post pics of your him watching.

    Pics or it didn’t happen;-)

  419. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    The thing about the fox hunt is, fox populations are expanding and need to be controlled. From what little I know of the British situation, once the hunt was banned people resorted to poisoning and trapping to control them. Much more indiscriminate of course, and I’m sure death by poisoning or traps is unpleasant, but at least no one has to see it, right? Out of sight, out of mind.

    Sparing the feelings of people who think nature is like a Disney feature is what REALLY matters. Foxes are cute and fluffy, so of course it’s morally wrong to kill them.

  422. says

    The thing about the fox hunt is, fox populations are expanding and need to be controlled. From what little I know of the British situation, once the hunt was banned people resorted to poisoning and trapping to control them. Much more indiscriminate of course, and I’m sure death by poisoning or traps is unpleasant, but at least no one has to see it, right? Out of sight, out of mind.

    Sparing the feelings of people who think nature is like a Disney feature is what REALLY matters. Foxes are cute and fluffy, so of course it’s morally wrong to kill them.

    Do you ever do any research at all before posting your talking points?

  423. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    I once tried to sneak up on a fox that I saw late one night at the edge of a corn field. As I got closer and closer, I was more and more surprised that the fox either didn’t seem to notice me or wasn’t afraid of me. As it turned out, I was sneaking up on a skunk. It was at that moment that I decided that there might be better ways to spend my time than creeping around corn fields late at night.

  424. David Marjanović, OM says

    O hai! This subthread is growing so fast that I’ll catch up later, maybe. So, I just want to say I’m learning how to type with a purring kitteh on my lap ^_^ (teh kitteh doesn’t always lie there, often he stands… or walks around, poking into and between my thigh muscles :-/ ). That’s all for the moment. Also, kitteh.

  425. David Marjanović, OM says

    Ogvorbis, I’m so sorry to hear about Sherman.

    So am I – especially now that I can relate in less theoretical ways.

  426. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Antiochus: I had a skunk sneak up on ME once in a back field. The beast got to about ten feet away before he realized I was there, and then the look on his face as he paused and stared… just this total “WTF is that?” look that can’t really be described.

    I don’t think skunks can see very well, though this might have just been a particularly nearsighted individual. It took him about 20 seconds before he decided to leave, bumbling along in this sort of ‘slow run’. Hilarious.

    SC: I admit that my knowledge of british hunting laws is sorely lacking. So is there any other reason to ban the hunt besides “AWWW, wook at its cute widdle eyes!”?

  427. Mattir says

    TLC – foxhunting is horrid – the fox is chased around and finally torn apart by dogs for the entertainment of vapid rich people on horses. This is not hunting for food – it’s cruel and hideous. I participate in hunting activities (mainly field dressing and coordinating a large deer management hunt). There is a huge and disturbing difference between the extended cruelty of fox hunting for entertainment and the swift deaths imparted by a heart-lung shot to a deer or a beheading to a domestic rabbit killed for food. I will participate in the latter, and even enjoy it in a very solemn sort of way, but I would lay down in the road to prevent the former.

  428. Carlie says

    I was dumb enough this summer to try and scare away a skunk that was near our campsite (long story). Not spook scare, just “hey there’s a human making noise here so maybe go away now?” scare.

    I never realized how clearly a skunk could give a look of disdain until that moment.

    And how quickly it could turn into a look of warning.

  429. Sili says

    And I’ve become the lowest form of blogger.

    Not only did I post a picture of one of the cats,…I showed him the post.

    :goes to check out Salty Current:

    (the blog, not the woman)

  430. says

    SC: I admit that my knowledge of british hunting laws [fox populations, methods of management and their rationales,…] is sorely lacking.

    Then you should probably stop making fact claims and characterizing people’s arguments and motives without knowing anything about them.

    So is there any other reason to ban the hunt besides “AWWW, wook at its cute widdle eyes!”?

    Yes. They’re animals like us with an interest in not being terrorized and killed for sport by humans, who have a choice in the matter. And no, an animal raised as a pet is not fundamentally different from one raised for food. They have the same basic interests and the same capacity for suffering. They’re just different to you.

  431. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Ah, I see Mattir. I was unaware of THAT aspect. OK, I stand corrected. That kind of bloodthirsty game is most definitely NOT ‘good hunting’. I heard similar things about traditional southern-style raccoon hunting.

    I support hunting foxes, but I don’t support letting dogs tear them apart for sport.

    SC: My apologies, you were right(er than I at first thought).

  433. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    I never realized how clearly a skunk could give a look of disdain until that moment.

    And how quickly it could turn into a look of warning.

    YES. “Disdain” is the best way to put it. After he bumbled off, I followed the skunk at a safe distance. And he made sure I knew exactly what distance felt ‘safe’ to him. One step over that invisible line, and he was doing the ol’ handstand. One step back, and he went right back to foraging in the undergrowth. Running away was clearly beneath him. What a cool animal.

  435. walton says

    FWIW, I had friends who went fox-hunting, back in my Oxford Tory days, though I never did so myself. I have no particular beef with those who go fox-hunting (and I also dislike the way that some people try to turn it into an issue of class warfare). But I find it barbaric and cruel, and I think it’s morally wrong. (Regardless of the necessity or otherwise of culling fox populations – an argument I’m uncomfortable with in any context – I don’t think it’s easy to sustain the argument that it’s ok to kill foxes in an unnecessarily cruel way merely for the sake of human entertainment and/or tradition.)

  436. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    I don’t think it’s easy to sustain the argument that it’s ok to kill foxes in an unnecessarily cruel way merely for the sake of human entertainment and/or tradition.)

    Agreed 100 percent Walton. I was sadly uninformed on that one.

  437. Cannabinaceae says

    My skunk story:

    First, background: W.U. and I often called our Mountain Poodle “Noodle Poodle”, which got bastardized into “noodlah poodlah” and various other ‘nyms. Ultimately, this ended up with anything cute being called “poodlah”.

    So: there I am, hiking up the wilderness beach in Olympic National Park. As usual, on hikes for which I am the prime mover, the participants ended up calling it a Death March. At any rate, by about 4 in the afternoon, having started out around 10:30 or so that morning, we were all spread out on the trail and I was quite exhausted. Total elevation gain on a beach hike isn’t that much, however there are numerous headlands that are either cut off by high tides or actually impassable, so every few miles (sometimes every fifty yards!) the rangers have kindly provided a rope to help you ascend the 50 or 100 feet of nearly vertical mud embankment that gets you to the quite steep trail that takes you to another rope you can get down with. Every cute creature that I spotted got addressed as “ahh, poodlah…”. There were many cute creatures on this hike.

    Including the last one, which I noticed as I emerged from the dense woods into a small clearing. However, it turned out to be a small skunk, who looked up at me curiously from whatever tubers or carcases it was noshing about with.

    I hadn’t realized that, even exhausted and bearing a 60 pound pack, I could teleport, for the next thing I knew, between the syllables “pood” and “lah” (that last one kind of turned into an “aaaaaaaah!”), I was off the trail up to my ankles in a swamp, about 20 yards further from the skunk than I had originally been, with the skunk now pointing its rear end towards me.

    Also, I didn’t realize until then that teleportation was such an aerobic technique, as I was breathing quite hard.

  438. Carlie says

    And he made sure I knew exactly what distance felt ‘safe’ to him. One step over that invisible line, and he was doing the ol’ handstand

    .

    Hee. Yeah, with the one I was dealing with, after the withering looks he shuffled around in a circle like “well, since you seem to be pretty slow to understand, I guess I’m going to have to do this…” followed by the butt shaking at me.

  439. Sili says

    No, this was the far more caring type of English badger.

    Pip pip tuberculosis!

    –o–

    I’m getting buzzed for the third night in a row.

    And I’m giving in to my stalkerish ways.

  441. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    And how quickly it could turn into a look of warning.

    *shudder*

    I’m not opposed to hunting in general, but fox-hunting is a horrible practice. The fox spends the last hours of its life stressed out of its gourd as the dogs close in. Because they chase it first and shit.

    And: Who is this lowercase walton? What have you done with the real one?

    And: I will be spending the rest of my evening preparing my tenure talk on Thursday. I know that I’ll be fine, but I’m fucking irrationally scared anyway. My Vulcan* training is failing me.

    *Heh. At first I typed “Vulvan”.

  442. Sili says

    You’re not helping, Carlie.

    I tried blocking my poor crush on the browser, but I can’t do that on the phone, and thus I just learned that she’s broken up with her boyfriend.

    I don’t want to be happy about that, but I’m not exactly sad either. So in short, I’m not a friend, whatever I may or may not have once been.

    What I’m fearing now is that I’m still gonna prey on her anyway.

    Only good thing is that she’s too clever, strong and discerning to let me get away with it.

  443. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Antiochus: I was picturing foxhunting the way I’d practice it, not the way it’s actually done.

    My thoughts on coyote hunting are similar. The populations DO need to be controlled, but so far all the coyote hunters I’ve met are both cruel and wasteful.

    I apologize for my defensiveness, but I have heard too many knee-jerk “BUT THEY’RE SOOO CUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTE” arguments IRL before. Usually from suburbanites who regularly mistake possums for ‘giant rats’ and scream when they see a garter snake.

    No excuse for my ignorance on UK foxhunting traditions though.

  444. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    When I lived in Arizona, my best friend had a pet skunk named Fern. She was a sweet little Mephitidae, very friendly (the skunk, not my friend). One day, Fern escaped and wandered outside. My friend and his dad spent the evening and well into the night looking for Fern. The next morning, friend’s dad looked out the back window and, lo and behold, there was Fern. So he walked out, in his Park Ranger uniform, and approached ‘Fern.’

    Even pet skunks retain the normal warning and defense programming, so he was not at all surprised when ‘Fern’ went into the whole warning look, stamping, headstand routine. Until ‘Fern’ let go with a full spray. His dad was not amused.

    ———–

    Once, when hiking in the Grand Canyon on the Bright Angel Trail (I was heading down to Garden Springs to play in the creek (when you live in high desert, hiking five miles to play in actual running water is not all that unusual)) and had a run-in with a scared and pissed skunk. A couple of things to remember during this narrative: first, there is a long and steep section of trail right at the Coconino Sandstone which tends to cause hikers to fall out and suck wind for a while and, second, the Bright Angel Trail is the busiest trail going into the canyon.

    This Saturday, a couple of friends and I decided to hike down to Garden Springs to play in the creek. We left around five in the morning, well before the tourists and mule trains began to infest the trail. We played in the creek for a few hours and then began hiking back up.

    All three of us were accustomed to the altitude (the South Rim is around 6,500 feet above sea level) and were in pretty good shape. But when we got to the steep part of the trail (called by some rangers ‘heartbreak hill’), we found ourselves in one heck of a traffic jam. One mule train, with riders, heading up the hill — stopped. About a hundred hikers heading up the hill — stopped (but, oddly, very few were sucking wind).

    Not burdened with anything more than a daypack and some canteens, we squeezed up to the front of the group and, to our surprise, could see two downbound mule trains (one pack, one with riders) and about 300 hikers all waiting on the narrow, very steep trail. And in between the two mobs? A very, very, very angry and scared skunk.

    We decided to try to sneak by. We couldn’t — the trail was too narrow. We couldn’t climb around as we could in other parts of the trail — when a trail is cut into a cliff, the options are limited.

    Eventually, a ranger showed up and flat out ordered the people (and mules) on the uphill side to move uptrail about a half a mile. Then he called to us three kids (who he knew (one of my friends (the one who had Fern for a while) was the son of the law enforcement supervisor for the district)) to herd the skunk uphill. Which we did. For about a hundred yards. When the skunk had the chance, it ambled off the trail into some talus.

    It still took about an hour for the traffic jam to clear. Amazing how few people want to walk past a stamping skunk on an eight-foot-wide trail with a sheer cliff on both sides (one up, one down).

    ——-

    And I have one more skunk story from a fire, but I don’t want to monopolize the conversation.

  445. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    And I have one more skunk story from a fire, but I don’t want to monopolize the conversation.

    Please, monopolize away. Skunk stories are always great.

  446. Sili says

    And I have one more skunk story from a fire, but I don’t want to monopolize the conversation.

    Why do you hate The Invisible Hand of the Free Market?

  447. David Marjanović, OM says

    Will I be good-looking enough?

    At the moment, your face, while clearly male, is actually very close to a female one. So, worry about something else :-) and talk to a therapist about that.

    I typed the above one-handed, because teh kitteh lying on my lap had rested his head on my left forearm. He had jumped off, drunk, eaten, and come back ^_^

  448. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    Why do you hate The Invisible Hand of the Free Market?

    Because it sucks at anything other than creating and increasing short-term profit?

  449. Sili says

    Will I be good-looking enough?

    I’m drunk, so ignore me, but the only thing ‘wrong’ with your looks is that you’re even more pale than me.

    For Fuck’s sake, do you like in a bunker?

  450. bro boxley OT says

    #377 blew soda all over the keyboard in that one. Head to any poor hispanic neighborhood in the US or south, the poorer the better the chickens are. The selective breeding for urban chickens has been underway for a few hundred years

  451. Sili says

    Because it sucks at anything other than creating and increasing short-term profit?

    Bah!

    I want to profit from (((stories))).

  452. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Bro Boxley: Hmmm, didn’t see it that way.

    here in canada, it seems options for commonly available breeds are limited to either production chickens, or ornamentals. I suppose I’d just like to see a balance.

    Also, it would be fun and/or interesting to try and invent my own breed.

  453. Carlie says

    Sorry Sili, I thought it was in jest. For what it’s worth, your awareness puts you miles ahead in the being-a-decent-human department. And sometimes following someone on the internet is enough to get it out of one’s system without doing something dumb in person. Plus, you’re already a pretty great person anyway.

    AE, you’ll do great.

    I’m trying to think of what the Vulvan greeting would be, and I’m not coming up with much different than the Vulcan one. Works both ways.

  454. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    Bah!

    I want to profit from (((stories))).

    But with the right (well, make that wrong) stories, you get prophet. And we all know where that leads.

  455. First Approximation, Much Cooler In Cyberspace says

    Ha, just read this:

    If men came from dirt and women came from men’s ribs, then why are there still dirt and man ribs?

  457. Sili says

    Sorry Sili, I thought it was in jest.

    I wish. No worries – you couldn’t know.

    For what it’s worth, your awareness puts you miles ahead in the being-a-decent-human department.

    Doesn’t stop me from doing stupid shit, but at least this girlwoman I haven’t actually groped.

    And sometimes following someone on the internet is enough to get it out of one’s system without doing something dumb in person.

    If only …

    Plus, you’re already a pretty great person anyway.

    Thanks. That’s very sweet of you. But I think you’re wrong for a change.

  458. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    FA: I’m not sure where I heard this story, but I remember hearing about a physiology or biology teacher who had to carefully explain to a student that the male skeleton does not, infact, contain one more rib than the female version.

  459. Tethys says

    David M

    Welcome to the wonders of kittehs.

    Do you know much about xenophyopores? I am wondering if its correct to call them amoebas? Wiki seems to say that genetic study puts them in their own clade.

    Berkeley has them grouped within testate amoebas.

  460. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    I’m trying to think of what the Vulvan greeting would be,

    I’m picturing Bonobos.

  461. Sili says

    I’m trying to think of what the Vulvan greeting would be, and I’m not coming up with much different than the Vulcan one. Works both ways.

    Two in the pink, one in the stink?

    I can never remember whether the thumb goes out or not. Still doesn’t stop me from accidentally gesturing Vulcanically in class …

  463. First Approximation, Much Cooler In Cyberspace says

    If Romulans came from Vulcans, why are there still Vulcans?

  465. chigau (meh) says

    bro boxley OT @450
    Thanks for the tip.
    Having chickens in your back yard has been ILLEGAL in every city I’ve been in for the last 50 years.
    No poor hispanics.
    Just poor Hungarians.

  466. Sili says

    Much Cooler In Cyberspace

    This may well have been discussed elsewhere, but you look plenty cool in real life, even if you’re a bit silent.

    I blame myself for not talking to you more. Sorry.

    Next year in Rhinebeck.

  467. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    ((((((((((WARNING)))))))))) FIre story! Fire story! Fire story! (You have been warned per requirements in the Onandonandon Agreement)

    Some years ago, I was at a fire in the Salmon River Canyon. It was hot. Not, ‘Oh, my, isn’t is warm,’ hot, but well over 100F in the shade hot. Hot.

    One evening, I showed up for work (I was working 4:00pm to 9:00am and sleeping in a hotel), staffed the front gate for a while, and then ambled over to the mess hall for dinner. Most fires are (and I know this sounds realy weird) catered. That’s right, catering companies show up with a couple of tractor trailers, tents, the whole works, and feed everyone at the incident. Some are good, some are mediocre, and the ones that suck disappear fast.

    So I ambled over to the mess hall, grabbed some lemonade (well, yellow ‘juice’ — it also comes in red, purple and green, each with a slightly fruity flavour that is not found in nature) looked at the menu, and tried to decide whether I wanted 3,000 calories in meat, grains, fats and veggies, or in grains, fats and veggies. Something, however, didn’t seem right (and, being a Security Specialist, it is my job to recognize that something is wrong.

    I looked around and tried to put my finger on what, exactly, was wrong. And then it dawned on me. Despite almost a hundred people in the mess tent, it was dead silent. Hear a pin drop silent. Silent as the grave. Silent as a bunch of people trying not to frighten a wild animal. In this case, a skunk.

    The skunk, a well-fed looking striped skunk, was standing in the middle of the mess hall. Now skunks do not have expressive faces — too few muscles — but this one had an ‘Oh, shit!’ expression — eyes open wide, mouth partly open, front legs pushed forward, back legs splayed slightly. The tail was still down.

    I carefully placed my cup on the edge of a table and watched it fall off, hit the ground, and spill. The skunk did not react. I then said, in a conversational voice which, thanks to giving lots and lots of tours, does carry, “Folks, everyone remember where your food is. Stand up, and exit by any route that does not take you closer to the skunk.”

    And no one moved. So I said, “Eventually the skunk is gonna stop being surprised and is either gonna get mad or scared. Do you want to be here when that happens?” and everyone carefully and slowly stood up and exited — some by rolling under the side of the tent.

    Then I got between the skunk and the kitchen (I didn’t have any food yet, so no way was I going to herd it towards the kitchen) and began making noise. The skunk turned towards me and snarled. No noise, but it looked like it was snarling. Then it slowly ambled out of the tent. Still not sure why it was in there, but it sure took its sweet time heading for the mesquite.

    As the diners filed back in, the Incident Commander came over to me and thanked me for taking charge of a weird situation. I told him it was no problem; after all, it wasn’t my food that would get sprayed. He then said, “I can always count on Park Rangers to handle wildlife problems. You folk are really good at dealing with people and nature.”

    I laughed and told him that my specialty is industrial and labour history and that I work with steam locomotives in real life. Not sure if he thought I was a really quick thinker or crazy.

    ——FIRE STORY ENDs——–

  468. bro boxley OT says

    #465 the trailer park 1/2 a mile from my house has about 100 chickens running loose. There is a bbq usually twice a month and eggs regular. It is county so no zoning applies.

  469. walton says

    And: Who is this lowercase walton? What have you done with the real one?

    Oh, I had to log in using my FTB account (which, for reasons that I can’t remember offhand, is in lowercase) in order to comment at Dispatches earlier. Normally I don’t bother with logging in before commenting here. I can log back out if the change is disconcerting. :-)

  470. Sili says

    Think fast.

    Imma drunk PM that poor crush on DA.

    At least it isn’t any of locals who’s getting creeped on. (Yet. You know who you are – please take precautions.)

    Whooooooo!! Cheap red wine.

  471. Sili says

    ost fires are (and I know this sounds realy weird) catered.

    Apparently that’s the case for Occupy Copenhagen.

    Not surprisingly the up-market cakeshops are doing the catering.

    :reads on:

  472. Sally Strange, OM says

    Dude, you just need to hang out in my circles for a bit, I have trouble excising it from my vocab.

    DUDE! Me too.

  473. says

    but someone with the nym Rorschach is another admin. And Rorschach left the racist remark on Pharyngulawiki..

    I’m just now reading this. I haven’t written anything for any wiki, and am not an admin for anything either. Ah well, obsessed haters are obsessed. Thanks for pointing it out, though. (oh, and Gilliel, that foreskin comment was mine)

  474. Carlie says

    But I think you’re wrong for a change.

    I shall insist that you are anyway, so nyah. Most people are a lot harder on themselves than other people are; people know all the bad crap they themselves think of, but other people see that they never act on most of it (which is the real test, actually treating other people well despite what’s in your head).

    Whenever I see NiMH, I think of mice.

    OMG YES. I’m so glad I’m not the only one!

  475. Sili says

    ——FIRE STORY ENDs——–

    Now, was that so hard?

    Long live (((monopolies)))!

    –o–

    More wine, and then more drunken whining.

    it’s only 5 hours till I have to teach.

  476. Sili says

    (which is the real test, actually treating other people well despite what’s in your head).

    Sorry. I thought I had talked about the groping at the Halloween party.

    I think she was supposed to be Catgirl, and I tried to pull off a mr Steed, but I most certainly was no gentleman.

  477. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    ——FIRE STORY ENDs——–

    Now, was that so hard?

    But look how long it took to end. Sorry ’bout tha’.

  478. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Brother Ogvorbis: Good story. I know skunks don’t really have expressive facial muscles, but I find them incredibly expressive just the same. Perhaps it’s the body language.

    I’m pretty sure I’ve already told my favorite wildlife story a few times, about the friendly heron who joined me for a day of fishing on the docks.

  479. says

    Btw, conflating killing for fun and sport with killing for food seems to me just as bad a mistake as confusing the attempt to stop Abbie Smith from giving the Hoggles of this world a forum with trying to shut her blog down.

    Although I will apologise to TLC for last night’s comment, it was indeed intemperate and uncalled for.

  480. Algernon says

    But I think you’re wrong for a change.

    Now now, from one drunk person to another, I’ve always thought you were strange but pleasant. The sort of person that is probably worth making the effort to get to know.

    Uh… I’m not hitting on you.

    By the way, a coworker gave me this nemihoff honey pepper vodka some one in Estonia gave them and I approve. Ugh, I am looking like a lush right now. Meh… this is a phase. It’s in my best interests to go out a lot right now. Besides, I like the company. Though now I am drinking straight pepper vodka by my lonesome, which probably isn’t the wisest.

    But this stuff is so very very good (please understand spicy with a hint of cardboard box/vanilla = good)

  482. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Martin: Accepted without reservation, but I’m having trouble recalling which post was from you.

  483. Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says

    Martin: Accepted without reservation, but I’m having trouble recalling which post was from you.

    The one about the hard-on.

  484. bro boxley OT says

    Algy you are okay unless you get stuck in some homemade slivovitz that will burn the inner you to the core

  485. consciousness razor says

    Oh, I had to log in using my FTB account (which, for reasons that I can’t remember offhand, is in lowercase) in order to comment at Dispatches earlier. Normally I don’t bother with logging in before commenting here. I can log back out if the change is disconcerting. :-)

    If you want to change your how your ‘nym is displayed when logged in at FTB, click on the link above the comment box where it is displayed. That goes to your dashboard. Click on Profile, then change your nickname accordingly and make sure it’s selected in the drop-down list below that, then click on Update Profile at the bottom.

  486. chigau (meh) says

    Father Ogvorbis, OM
    fire story

    … some by rolling under the side of the tent …

    bwahahaha
    I’ve done that!
    (not for a skunk)

  487. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel says

    Laughing Coyote:

    In my old town there was a pond in the woods that was just crawling with turtle-dumped red eared sliders.

    Uh, that’s horrible.

    (Just so we’re clear, I wasn’t claiming that my SIL would have done that— after I turtle-sat for her when she went on vacation this year, she called me and said, “Soooo… do you want a turtle?” It worked out quiet well, ‘cos after bonding with Emery for a week, I was ready to buy a red eared slider for myself, anyway. It’s better having an older one IMHO; Emery has this turtle shit down. Plus, she takes no shit from my cats.)

    Skunk story: While walking home from the movie theater a couple of weeks ago, Mr Darkheart and I saw a skunk rummaging around in the KFC parking lot. Mr Darkheart thought it was a kitty at first. :-/

    Hunting story: I don’t hunt and I’m pretty ambivalent about it* in general. Anyway, one of my brothers-in-law hunts dear every year. Let me tell you, there’s nothing quite like the shock of walking through my building’s courtyard after work and coming face-to-face with a deer carcass.

    *I do, however, absolutely hate it when people use hunting as an argument against stricter gun control laws.

  488. walton says

    If you want to change your how your ‘nym is displayed when logged in at FTB, click on the link above the comment box where it is displayed. That goes to your dashboard. Click on Profile, then change your nickname accordingly and make sure it’s selected in the drop-down list below that, then click on Update Profile at the bottom.

    Oh, I’m perfectly capable of changing it. I’ve done so before on the old system. (Honestly, while I have many failings, lack of IT-literacy is not one of them.) I just can’t be bothered with the thirty seconds of effort it would take. Besides, I quite like the lower case. It has a certain je ne sais quoi. :-)

  489. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Dr Audley: Yeah. Upon further research, I discovered that not only are the painted turtles in BC local and native, but the British Columbian (and Oregonian) populations are the ones actually considered ‘at risk’. So yeah, I’m sure the red eared sliders don’t help.

    (And yeah, I was pretty sure your SIL wouldn’t just dump it in the wild, but it happens all too often just the same.)

  490. DemetriusOfPharos says

    @Sili – I can relate. I drunk-PM’d my crush recently. It… it didn’t go well. I mean, I didn’t say anything stupid (verified by a third party) and we’re still friends (she did say she valued our friendship), but I’m still alone and pining. Ah, well, such is life.

    General question for the horde – pets have been a theme in this thread. I’ve been seriously considering getting a pet. Fish don’t tend to be very interactive, so they’re right out. I’m allergic to cats, and I think dogs generally require more attention than I can reasonably give right now with work and all. Plus, I live in an apartment. So I’ve been thinking about getting a rabbit. Any advice on breed, feeding, etc?

  491. First Approximation says

    This may well have been discussed elsewhere, but you look plenty cool in real life, even if you’re a bit silent.

    Thanks. I thought your hat was cool.

    Anyway, you should be more worried about our blog host. From what I hear this sharp toothed, cyper-pistol wielding blogger is a soft spoken teddy bear in meatspace!

  492. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel says

    DemetriusOfPharos:
    Pfffft, rabbits. Get a turtle!

  493. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    So I’ve been thinking about getting a rabbit. Any advice on breed, feeding, etc?

    I would actually lean against a rabbit — they tend to bite and are not real cuddly. Perhaps a rat or two?

  495. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Demetrius: I’m gonna echo Brother Ogvorbis (and Caine, preemptively) and say get a rat.

    No, actually, get TWO rats. Another persistent and cruel myth I run into from pet stores: “Get a single rat, so it’ll be more bonded to you”. Rats live 2-5 years. One day for us is like two weeks or more in rat-time. No way a human can interact with a rat constantly enough to satisfy its social needs. Get two rats, and they’ll both love you the same.

  496. consciousness razor says

    Oh, I’m perfectly capable of changing it. I’ve done so before on the old system. (Honestly, while I have many failings, lack of IT-literacy is not one of them.)

    That’s why I said, “If you want to…”

    I just can’t be bothered with the thirty seconds of effort it would take.

    Yes, that’s time better spent writing epic rants on topics even you find trivial. ;)

    Besides, I quite like the lower case. It has a certain je ne sais quoi. :-)

    Just like mine, I guess, though it’s a different je ne sais quoi. (At least I think so. It could be that all je ne sais quoi’s are identical, but I don’t know.) Now that you mention it, it’s a little odd that a lot of people capitalize my ‘nym, treating it like a proper name or something. I’ve thought about switching to “CR” or “cr” for the sake of brevity, but two characters doesn’t seem like enough.

  497. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel says

    Oggie:

    Perhaps a rat or two?

    Oh, good call! Rats are intelligent, snuggly, can be litter-trained, and will eat just about anything. Plus, you know, super cute.

  498. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    LOL, Father Ogvorbis rather. Have I been calling you ‘Brother Ogvorbis’ this whole time? shit.

  499. Father Ogvorbis, OM says

    LOL, Father Ogvorbis rather. Have I been calling you ‘Brother Ogvorbis’ this whole time? shit.

    The ‘Ogvorbis’ is the part I answer to. The relative modifier changes.

  500. chigau (meh) says

    DemetriusOfPharos

    … I’ve been seriously considering getting a pet.

    Parrot.
    But they are very social and might out-live you.
    2 parrots.