I’m impressed. The principal at Edgewater Primary School, Julie Tombs, ended the tradition of reciting the Lord’s Prayer at assemblies after receiving some complaints, and she did it for good principled reasons.
…at this school we have students from a range of backgrounds and it is important to consider all views and not promote one set of religious beliefs and practices over another.
Exactly right! This is a simple decision that schools should not be in the business of promoting sectarian religion. But of course, even in Australia the facts can’t be allowed to stand, so opposition must be gathered in the guise of a democratic poll. And so far, the Australians are disappointing me.
Should the Lord’s Prayer be banned from WA schools?
Yes 26.92%
No 54.78%
In state schools only 10.96%
I don’t care 7.34%
People who read Pharyngula might have a different perspective on this issue. Maybe you should make your views known.
Except they’re splitting the votes! Of COURSE truly private schools shouldn’t have the prayer banned.
What’s worse is that it makes people who vote Yes because they aren’t reading carefully look a little crazy.
I love how these people are always for the Lords Prayer. It’s only words, they might say, no harm in it. My response is: okay if it’s just words, let’s recite from the Koran or the Satanic Bible or some such. They seem to change their minds quickly at that point.
Note that Australia has a constitutional clause that prohibits government from supporting a sectarian position.
“In state schools only” of course, or any school that gets funding from the state or fed.
Of course, nuance is not what these people do best.
Note that the language in the question “should the Lord’s Prayer be banned from WA schools?” implies that even private prayers which students choose to do on their own time would be forcibly halted and/or punished — like banning drugs, alcohol, or firearms from the school. They often do this on purpose, partly for propaganda effect and partly I think because many people simply don’t seem to be able to tell the difference. If a teacher can’t lead the class in an official prayer then nobody can pray at any time — not in school, not in church, not in their own homes. It’s either good, or it’s bad. Allowed — or illegal.
I wonder what the percentages would be like if the question had been worded more accurately.
Well that’s a wretchedly worded poll question. The issue is not whether the prayer should be banned, but whether or not its recitation should be an official school activity.
One step forward, two steps back.
The state Premier is still advocating Christianity:
WA Premier Colin Barnett said although it was “desirable” for students to recite the prayer at assembly, it was ultimately the school’s decision.
“My own view is that WA is basically a Christian-based community and I think its desirable to have the Lord’s Prayer said,” Mr Barnett said today.
“(But) that decision rests at the school level. Certainly schools can, and I would encourage them to, have the Lord’s Prayer.
“I don’t think it offends anyone; it just simply reflects the values and backbone of our society.”
It’s great that the school has made the decision to ban the Lord’s Prayer at regular assembly, but they’re still allowing it at Easter and Christmas…This is a publicly funded state school. They should not be reciting the Lord’s Prayer full stop. Barnett and his minions in the education department should really be stepping in here.
So many people, even non-religious people seem to see no harm in forcing kids to pray/recite prayer/listen to prayer/sing hymns/talk about fairytales as though they actually happened. I had to recite the lord’s bloody prayer at least once every school day for the best part of ten years. I can quote it word for word and I’ll never bloody be able to forget it. It sometimes brainworms itself into my mind when I least expect it, like last week I found myself reciting it to myself in my head (fortunately) at work. If I hadn’t been made to say it every day under penalty of losing my lunch hour, I wouldn’t have that particular piece of rubbish floating around in my brain.
Every time I read a comment (here or on any sensible blog) by non-Americans expressing relieved satisfaction that “it isn’t like the crazy Xian USA here”, the silent “yet” is always on my mind.
It wasn’t like this HERE, either 30-50 years ago. It was pretty much like the UK and Australia. In fact, the American public sphere was probably more secular and religion more a private matter than in most other countries during much of the 20th century (and even before).
Were people as insanely deluded as always? Yes! But people did not generally imagine that it was OK in a Republic to expect their own personal religious beliefs to dictate the laws of the land and the daily lives of all who live in it.
It took a targeted strategy and some early, easier than expected, wins for all that to change. The strategy was largely a stealth strategy until recently (now that sheer power and success has made the Xian fundamentalists bold). That strategy is a global strategy…the Xian dominionists have been sending out “missionaries” for over two decades already. People in other countries who believe they have a solidly secular society and political system ought to take a closer look around them.
I am always uneasy when I read Canadians (I am Canadian, living in the USA), UKers, Australians, Europeans, etc. comfortably remarking about how all that Xian fundamentalism just won’t fly in their countries. That is exactly the state of oblivious self-satisfaction that fundamentalists are counting on as they infiltrate schools and lower levels of government, evangelize the population and gradually work their way up to almost total control. And, like here in the USA, it might not be until it is almost too late before the oblivious wake up to the threat (by which time, they belatedly realise they are no longer a solid majority- that, while they were asleep at the wheel, all the people they so comfortably believed were too sensible and secular to be bowled over as those idiot Americans have been, are, in fact, human beings too and just as susceptible to the putrid virus of religion).
I read some of the comments at the Australian website. Apparently Christians are assholes no matter what country they live in. They think they have the right to force other people’s children to pray to their worthless dead Jeebus. In America that would be treason.
I suspect that this comes across to kids as adults making minors mouth meaningless mumbo-jumbo. And that can lead to disrespect for religion.
On principle, I’m against it. But, practically speaking, I don’t see it as a cause for great concern.
@4 Anonymosity: The problem in Australia is that even the private “religious affiliated” school’s get government funding. Given the number of these religious schools nationally and the number of students they enrol, you would be hard pressed to get the government to impose any such restriction under the threat of loss of funding. The religious schools simply educate too many students for that to be any kind of valid threat, and these schools know it, because the public system simply could not cope with the load if that many new students had to enter the system.
Its true the wording of the poll and the article are extremely biased to make it look like the poor christians are being fed to the lions – again.
As someone who had an hours compulsory catechism for an hour a day every day for six fucking years I have no problem with teachers being banned from using prayer in all schools, regardless of whether they are stated funded or not.
There is NO educational benefit to prayer or religious teaching in schools wither for the individual or society at large. The very best that can come out of it is people aren’t scarred too badly.
What people do in their private life is their own business. But schools are public institutions whether or not they are officially “private”
This is our local school. The xtians in west aust are a whole breed of crazy beyond their eastern brethren. Barnett is a populist who will go with any white Anglo majority.
@niftyatheist: I beg to differ – at least from an Australian perspective. I don’t think there’s many Australian’s who would disagree that there are parts of the country where religious fundamentalism is a problem. I certainly don’t think it’s as pervasive in Australia as it is in the US, but I don’t think anybody could/would genuinely deny it’s a problem here.
Here in Canada, we have many religious fuckwits who are right on par with the Tea Party – only without the political power. At present, the current Conservative Party seems to recognize that to pander to the extremists would be to lose the next Federal Election by driving away the middle-of-the road voters, so I don’t think we’ll see them in power any time soon.
Unfortunately, as the old saying goes, a week is a long time in politics. I remain on high alert.
I’m curious, who’s this “Lord” they speak of ? Mel Gibson ?
I prefer the term “omitted” to “banned”. It gives less of those special Christian persecution thrills.
Teach newton’s laws of motion etc. to the kids and tell them to mumble the same in the assembly.. no one can make that out in the crowd? .. Those’d be really some prayers which’d actually have an effect!! (both in scientific and educational sense :P)
#15, I am glad that there are people like you who are aware. I am only saying that in every comment thread, there are regularly posters who seem to be unaware. That is what happened here…if one brought up the subject of worry over rising fundamentalism and religiosity in the public sphere, one was laughed off as a “conspiracy-theorist” by comfortably oblivious secularists who are only recently (probably since 2001, mainly) waking up to the threat as if it is new and hasn’t been growing for 3o years or more…
#16, Good for you. I hope you remind your family and friends to remain wary, too. Many in my family are atheist and secular, but also conservative. They roll their eyes dismissively when I mention that Xian fundamentalism is a threat in Canada just as it is in the USA. People just don’t want to believe that they belong to the human race and it isn’t just one country or one group of people who are uniquely susceptible to the power strategems of insane woomeisters.
This is worded to make it seem as if no one is ever allowed to pray in school, even to themselves; rather than the actual issue of the school not making students participate in a xian ritual. This is a common tactic among fundies. Gotta feed that persecution complex.
Ha!, tipped the scales already. I agree the questions are a bit iffy, but seeing as I live in WA I had to click “yes”
@Anonymosity #2 – But the Lord’s Prayer is not a “sectarian position”, as all Christians hold it sacred.
(Insert sarcastic eye-roll here.)
Just Checked out the site.. the votes are all coming in favor of “Yes” now ..
Latest: a complete swing to YES (i.e. lord’s prayer should be banned): 2457 for with 1988 against.
Woop! Woop! Go Pharyngulans!
⌗12: I know that the state funds private schools, but I think this is one of those cases where if you join the schools you basically understand what you’re getting yourself in for. I went to both a government & private school in Perth. While at the time I was religious so it didn’t bother me I still think that they have the right to say ‘We are an openly christian school, so we will espouse christian teachings.’ So long as those teachings do not contradict the basic state curriculum. However concomitant with that statement they should also not receive any state funding as they are stating a religious ethos. Which, as has been stated previously, is against the WA constitution.
I find the wording confusing. I’m not opposed to someone praying silently with whatever prayer and to whatever god they prefer. But when we’re talking about the institution forcing people to pray a certain way (or at all), I’d say opposition is the only sensible way to go, no matter what your religion or lack thereof.
Of course you know that that last sentence is completely superfluous. In fact, both of them are. People around here live to Pharyngulate.
You’re saying that “… she did it for good principled reasons”, followed by this quote:
“…at this school we have students from a range of backgrounds and it is important to consider all views and not promote one set of religious beliefs and practices over another.”
What bothers me is that this trivializes the very first provision of the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights of the United States of America, the highest law of our nation, as well as rulings of the United States Supreme Court that were based upon that law. If this quote embodies her “good principled reasons” then she’s saying that she coincidentally chooses to obey the law only because of what she considers important, which, in effect, implies that in setting school policies, she wouldn’t hesitate to violate any laws that she doesn’t like.
She did the right thing, but no, I don’t agree that “she did it for good principled reasons.” She’s acting as an agent of the government and is restrained by the Bill of Rights, and she is not permitted to base her decisions on her personal opinion of its merits.
Yes 52.33% (3300 votes)
No 33.1% (2087 votes)
In state schools only 10.26% (647 votes)
I don’t care 4.31% (272 votes)
Looks like we did.
Oh wait. Australia?
That’s not my fault. When you say something like “Edgewater Primary School”, it’s reasonable to assume that you’re talking about something local.
Dr. I. Needtob Athe @ 29:
I thought you were being unnecessarily nitpicky for a moment, but then I thought about it a little. If she’d proudly announced that she was allowing African American students into her classrooms because of her principles it would have raised the same issue – namely yes, it’s a principle, but in case you haven’t noticed, it’s also the law.
Given the sleazy way this “vote” is set up, I was curious who “Perth Now” is. So I clicked the About Us link at the bottom of the page. That lead to a “Page Not Found” page…interesting…but then I noticed that it says “The Sunday Times” below those bottom of the page links. I’m not sure that’s THE Sunday Times, but assuming it is then the long thread of corporations leads to…guess who?… News Corp! Gosh, could it really be Rupie and his boys!?
And how many black Americans do think there are in Western Australia ? If you mean black students then say so.
Isn’t that the way it always goes? “Allowing gay marriage infringes on my rights!” Um, no, no one’s forcing you to participate.
This morning someone on the radio from some organization with “religious freedom” in its title was complaining that the end of don’t ask/don’t tell somehow infringes on the rights of xian troops. Um, no, you still have the right to preach against or pray for or even hate LGBTGs; you just don’t have the right to deny them their right to serve just because you think they’re icky.
The religious in general and xians in particular thrive on playing the victim.
This is worded poorly all around. For one thing, it is misleading in that it talks of prayer being banned in the schools, which could sound like its a ban of students praying. When all it refers to is the ban of school-sponsored prayer in public schools. That they shouldn’t be allowed to have students recite a religious prayer the way they recite the Pledge to the American flag, rather than searching for students praying and forcing those caught to stop.
As a kid in the UK late 1940s. I remember reciting the prayer every day but it had no more significance than reciting our “times tables” every day. Our teacher did it because it was required. At the time I always wondered what “done in earth” meant.
Well, I tend not to crash these polls as they are usually US-based, and I have no connection to that country. However, I was an Australian resident for an extended period, and in my experience Aussies were a pretty rational bunch, so really I felt obliged to help pharyngulate this poll, if only because I’m sure that’s how Aussies themselves would vote!
(said with tongue slightly in cheek)
I’m 27 now, and when I was in junior high, we had to stand for the Lord’s Prayer after the national anthem. I always sat down for that part. And got the crap beaten out of me for it, and was them punished equally for “fighting”, according to zero tolerance policies.
Ahh, good times.
I’ve never had to pray in school. Austria has a concordate, so there are 2 h/week of religious instruction* for all Catholics** whose parents haven’t opted out (or who haven’t, above a certain age, opted out themselves), same for the Lutherans and the Muslims; everyone who doesn’t belong to an Officially Recognized Religious Community simply had spare time instead when I went to school (now there are ethics classes). That’s it. No religion outside religion class. The idea of beginning a school day or something with a prayer would be considered certifiably insane.
* Mostly comparative religion in the later years.
** Yep. The state knows your religious affiliation. It’s considered part of your identifying information like your name, address, birth date…
I suppose I should have mentioned for this international audience that there’s no morning ritual in Austrian schools at all, religious, patriotic or otherwise. The kids go straight to their classrooms and wait for the teacher to come in, and then the teacher
tries in vain to calm the class downtries in vain to wake the class upbegins to teach.Only one assembly a fortnight? Lucky kids! But I can’t imagine that any True Christian™ would think that one Lord’s Prayer a fortnight is sufficient, so the kids to whom praying is important will already be doing so more often. So, abolishing the school-led prayer won’t be any problem to them, will it? In fact, since Jebus specifically warned them not to turn prayer into a public performance, it’s doing them a favour.
Colin Barnett:
Did he just deny the existence of a significant number of citizens of his state?
OK I did my part and voted. Now I have a question for any Australians reading this: what is the “KISS and drive” sign in front of the school all about? We have distracted-driving laws here (Canada) that definitely would not allow that!
No PZ, this is not “Exactly right!” The school shouldn’t promote sectarian religion even if it had a homogenous population following that religion. In fact, these are the kinds of schools that need secularization the most. Otherwise we end up with schools like the ones in Kentucky that feel their religion has a special place in the public realm since “everybody” there believes it.
Sorry, Ferrous, PZ is “Exactly right!”. Context is everything.
We are not talking about areas with a homogeneous population like in Kentucky. We are talking about Western Australia, where you can expect a number of Indigenous children in the school, and a number of immigrants from anywhere and everywhere (if this is a mining area).
The people who bleated in the comments that Australia is a Christian nation have the subtext: “People of European extraction are the only people who count”, as if a adherence to a dodgy old middle-eastern religion has any intrinsic value.
Thanks all for supporting a cause in my home state.
Back in the dark days of the conservative dictatorship that was 1950’s Australia the P{rime Monster travelled to England every year to watch the cricket and collect his latest knighthood We poor snotty-nosed school children were lined up every morning for the flag raising ceremony. We were ordered to stand to attention by some pseudo-military martinent on the teaching staff and recite the following oath: “I honour my god, I serve my Queen, (of England NOT Australia)and I salute the flag.” Being good little cynics we showed the traditional disrespect of the the “convict class” for authority by changing it to: “I honour my god, I serve my queen and I shoot the flag.
In the 60’s era of Vietnam and protest we didn’t shoot the flag, merely burned it. These days I would change the remaining two verbs for something more appropriate.
@joe321 Kiss and ride = stop yor car kiss your passenger, drop them off and drive away
We have them at train stations too : )
Oh shit. I commented on the article, said something about Washington, like the rest of America, being based on the Constitution and not Christianty. It wasn’t until after sending it that I noticed that this story was from Australia. I call for a mulligan.
…I did think it was odd that Washington had a premier, but who really pays attention to the idiosyncracies of state government?
[meta]
J_Brisby, understandable error.
FWIW, the Commonwealth Of Australia Constitution Act is somewhat similar (cf. Chapter V, Section 116):
I seem to recall Harper defending secularism in the last 6 months?
Anyway, I just found this Religion raises more questions than answers for Canadians: poll on National Post. Highlights:
I live in Alberta(and I’m not proud of that fact -_^ ) and except for people that read The Sun, it is just fine to proclaim oneself as an
heathenatheist. I am living in a community of fundamentalist Xians and point absurdities in the bible daily(I’ve got some doozies). Actually, even in the letters section of the Sun, people state they are atheists once in a while.One thing that bugs me about the Lords prayer here and I wonder, do most people end it, “forever and ever, amen?” I mean, in Herr Christ’s rules and regulations in Matthew, it is supposed to be, “forever, amen.”
This forever and ever crap sounds even more fairy tale childish. It is bad enough watching grown adults(chronologically speaking) … oh fuck, I don’t want to get into it.
Sorry echidna, but it is still not exactly right. I do realize that the principal Tombs does have a diverse student body. But that shouldn’t matter. The motivation should be the principle of keeping gub’mint out of the religion business rather than catering to your particular population.
Ah, That’s better!
niftyatheist #9,
My opinion is that Australia is under threat from fundie christian groups. Traditional churches (Catholic and Church of England) have falling numbers but evangelical churches appear to be popping up everywhere.
As a child in the 70s, I had RE at school where old ladies from the local catholic church would tell us how much Jesus loved us how we should all be nice to each other.
My daughter in her RE class get told old testament stories by an elderly woman from the local Hillsong equivalent church which basically boil down to accepting Gods will. The hippy Jesus I learnt about doesnt seem to get much of a look in.
The last story she partially relayed to me was about a woman who wanted a child. God gave her a child on the provision that he would take it off her if requested. Off course God took the child as promised – the shithead. Does anybody know who this biblical character is – I want to talk to my daughter more about it.
Voted yes simply because I don’t believe private schools should exist, therefore the question of whether they can recite the prayer is irrelevant.
Bloody christians. The cries of a poor, downtrodden, persectuted, under-privileged privileged majority make me chortle.
56.37% v 26.8%
….on the top two at the moment, but it looks like there is some push back happening now. Probably some hillsong happy-clappers getting organised.
Oy, since we’re on the subject of OZ, can someone from over the pond there please explain to me exactly why Gillard has gone from most loved to most hated in less than a fucking year?
oh, and could someone also explain how the Wallabies managed beat the All Blacks last month, only to lose a first round match in the World Cup this month?
and no, league rugby IS NOT as important as the World Cup, so don’t even get me started on that.
The kids go straight to their classrooms and wait for the teacher to come in, …and then the teacher tries in vain to calm the class down tries in vain to wake the class up… begins to teach.
I give you an old classic, Sister Mary Elephant…
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/audio/play/80511611/
The AFL is in Finals mode down here – I didn’t hear/see anything about the Wallabies winning or loosing anything recently.
The Gillard polls thing I haven’t been tracking too closely, mostly as I have no faith in polls. Seems to be Murdoch press howling the loudest about them, which is un-surprising as she is trying to get the Carbon Tax through.
Hawks are playing ‘Pies for a spot in the Grand Final this Friday.
‘Carn Hawks :)
I have a problem with the wording. I doubt anyone wants to keep Timmy from reciting it quietly by himself or with a group of friends. Stopping it from being an official part of the school day is not banning it. Telling teachers they shouldn’t indicate favoritism to one religion by having a poster of it up isn’t banning it.
The AFL is in Finals mode down here
uh, what exactly would you call the World cup then?
Aussies have it so backward.
AFL is a dead issue internationally, yet in OZ it gets tons more press.
weird.
I didn’t hear/see anything about the Wallabies winning or loosing anything recently.
that’s because they stuck waaaayyy back on the back of your sports page, mostly likely.
they lost to… IRELAND.
yeah.
you guys should be embarrassed*.
;)
The Gillard polls thing I haven’t been tracking too closely, mostly as I have no faith in polls. Seems to be Murdoch press howling the loudest about them, which is un-surprising as she is trying to get the Carbon Tax through.
yeah, over hear the news is that she is so low in the polls now, that the Labour party is actually considering going back to Rudd.
my question is, is how could this have happened so quickly?
you really think the poll numbers are Murdoch Manufactured? Seems unlikely.
*I should at this point note that I really only act like I care about rugby, as is required by the laws of the good state of NZ, “go all blacks” amen.
I work at the Education Department in one of the Australian states. When I’m bored, I go through all the archived correspondence from people complaining for/against religion in schools. It’s pretty fascinating reading.
The main problem is that what happens within a school is primarily up to the principal. Even if the principal breaches clearly outlined rules – by for example inviting people from their particular religion to proselytise to the kids – it’s a long and slow process to have anybody in department do anything about it. And even then, there’s nothing more than a “please don’t do that again” letter sent. Principals have to set kids on fire to get any sort of censuring.
I’ve also found out the principal is allowed to take his or her dog to school too. That’s pretty awesome.
@ich (for short)
Heh, its hard enough tracking any other sport during the regular home & away season, so during finals – feergeddibootit!
Don’t know if the polls are exactly Murdoch manufactured, but she dived after getting the carbon tax pretty much a done deal, and News Ltd has about 70% of newspaper circulation here and the loudest shock jocks tow the same line – so… Corellation?
Also, the polls are all two-party preferred despite us now having a minority government after The Greens secured about 17% of the popular vote (from memory) so I wonder how that skews the polls?
Don’t know if the polls are exactly Murdoch manufactured, but she dived after getting the carbon tax pretty much a done deal, and News Ltd has about 70% of newspaper circulation here and the loudest shock jocks tow the same line – so… Corellation?
interesting.
followup question then:
How much influence on the voters of OZ does Murdoch still have?
because if sufficient amount, then while the poll data may be lies, it’s still instructive.
Principals have to set kids on fire to get any sort of censuring.
O.o
I’d pay to see that.
Ichthyic,
Well – without wanting to sound like the expert I’m not… based on the last election I’d have said ‘not that much’, less than half.
The voters were split (roughly) ~38% Labor (Gillard), ~43% Liberal/National (mad monk) and 12% The Greens. Independants catching the scraps.
I guess the polls may have the right trend, reading various comments in the online newspaper sites there are many unhappy with what she is not doing, in addition to those unhappy with what she is doing. So she’s catching it from left and right.
There’s plenty who aren’t happy with what she isn’t doing that they (myself included) were hoping she would do – such as sort out a decent result for refugees (“boat people”), get same-sex marriages going, resource tax the mines, and others. So she’s loosing popularity there. So that’s probably part of the speed of the dip- frustration mounting in supporters adding to swingers lured from the Liberals swinging back, added to the die-hard Liberal support base.
But I’m still not sure if the figures are accurate in an election winning sense – as I just can’t see it following that all who are turned off Gillard are turning to Abbot. Pollsters seem to love the ‘two-party preferred’ though.
The Murdoch influence? Looks to me like this Carbon Tax argument is playing into News Ltd’s climate-change-denial loving hands. They’re cluttering the issue with the usual not happening/not needed/not us/we’ll all be ruin’d noise and that could take a serious bite out of Labor’s blue-collar and/or more swinging voters at the next election. It just annoys me that misinformation and bad science could swing an election, or get a PM replaced by their party.
On the Gillard issue I’mma come right out and say it for Americans.
She was never really popular. She has never escaped from the shadow of her predecessor or the perception that she is the Brutus to his Caesar.
That more than anything kills her.
Other than that she has:
– Folded to big miners on the tax issue
– Further sold out the rights of refugees
– A taxation on corporate carbon emissions was always going to be unpopular to start
– Re-invented herself too many times, with too many media advisers, to the point where she has trouble coming off as genuine.
– An opposition that amounts to a child that is upset about the last election and so says NO to everything.
Here’s the latest response to this – from the ABC news
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-22/primary-school-abused-over-lord27s-prayer/2911288
milobear, yah, Christians are like that.
(No surprise there)
My son attends a state primary school here in Australia and the students aren’t required to recite the Lord’s Prayer. They do however have a religious instruction class once a week, which the students may opt out of following a written request from their parents. Unfortunately attendance at these classes is the default position in the absence of a parental opt out request. During this class the students who opt out are permitted to spend their time in the school library, or remain in their classroom and pursue other activities. However they are prohibited from pursuing any curricular activities as the government has decided that it would give them an unfair scholarly advantave over the children who do attend these religious classes.
DingoDave,
Sigh.
(Says it all, really)
@John Morales
I guess the students who attend religious education classes could always PRAY for better grades : )
Just in case the poll is taken down soon, the numbers have improved somewhat. As of 26 Sep 2011, they are:
Yes: 54.9% (10385 votes)
No: 29.01% (5487 votes)
State Schools only: 8.74% (1654 votes)
Don’t care: 7.34% (1389 votes)