Rev. Big Dumb Chimp gets a big thumbs down from me for this one: he posted this video in a comment, and then once I started playing it I wasn’t able to turn it off because I was clinging white-knuckled to my chair and desk, and kind of moaning and gibbering. I managed to make it to the end without throwing up, but I think this would be my nightmare job.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
I said I wouldn’t take about the other subject, not that I wouldn’t respond to you about something else. And yes, because I pointed out the perceived tone of someone’s post it means that they hurt me so much. Excuse me while I go cry myself to sleep.
starstuff:
Mmmmmmmmm, girllllll, hell yes it should have. But it’s Mississippi. . you saw that, right?
I haven’t read the opinion yet, but I gather it was rendered concerning some narrow point of law about which circumstances are acceptable to put forward such a referendum under state law. Legal arcana, in other words, not ethical practice or even minimal horse sense.
Janine:
I’m with you. It’s disgusting, and the whole notion is a blatant end run around the actual law.
Sally:
Hahahahahahahahahaha. Ah, that cheered me up!
Crowepps & Gyeong, thank you. :)
@ Josh
Well, you know what we’re going to have to do now? We need to go to Mississippi, find a woman who’s willing to sacrifice for the cause, knock her up, and have her try to get an abortion. Then she’ll have to sue about it, and eventually (when the child that resulted is about ready for high school) the case will reach the supreme court, which will have no choice but to rule in her favor! Thus abortion will be legal in Mississippi again.
Or maybe it’s late and I should go to bed…
Thanks! Now I can
diego to sleep happy.starstuff:
You didn’t just point out you found it condescending, you wrote “Please don’t [do that]”. Seems to me that indicates more than a trivial amount of caring.
Shame that’s a rhetorical request.
(You’d get no such excuse from me, were I to have control of the matter)
@ John Morales
Whatever you say. You’re beginning to be a bore. I’m done responding to this too.
Well, since I complain about everything, I should note I have one good thing to say. My e-cigarette is working unusually fabulously tonight. . . .clouds of thick, satisfying, lung-filling vapor. Blessed are these devices which keep me off tobacco.
But oh, those sourdough “starters.” Grrr. Fuck them absent yeast.
John, please stop being needlessly boring and dickish. It dilutes the effectiveness of needful boring dickishness.
Oh, hey, so much more to read!
Caine, welcome back, so glad you are cancer-free and feeling better. I’m Cath, I changed my nym while you were away.
Ange, I am in awe. What an amazing job you do.
And now I must be off to Greta’s place, to see how you can argue about Pharyngula in a manner suited to Greta’s place. Interesting.
Those can be tricky. What did you use to make yours?
How is anything the anti-choicers do okay? I swear first Ohio, then Kansas, now Mississippi. It’s gotta stop.
Alethea:
Thank you! How are you doing?
Hmmmm. :Runs off to read.:
Gyeong, don’t forget South Dakota. They led the way in using state’s rights to virtually illegalize abortion.
CNN seems to think that this might be a ploy by anti-choicers to get a case to the Supreme Court again so that they could overturn Roe v Wade. http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/09/09/mississippi.personhood/index.html
starstuff91:
Now you know to what addressing claims refers. :)
On sourdough starter:
Well, it’s that I can’t properly say I’ve “made” one at all yet, despite many frustrations this past week. I’m on day three with one (whole rye flour and pineapple juice) with no signs of fermentation, and day four with whole wheat and water and sugar, with no signs of fermentation. Crazy-making.
I will not give up though. I will have my own sourdough culture.
On and off :) Mostly just happy to see you right now – I was frettin’. I’ve had a few wonderful and a few bad moments with the eternally unpredictable Jamestown Acquaintances since arriving at home, and the stress of my housing/school situation is starting to get to me, but I’ve got fudge and Pharyngula, so I’m good.
-FTB
Some dumb white trash fucker is setting off firecrackers in the street 100 feet from my house. It’s 1:16 a.m. here.
@ Josh
I tried one with my boyfriend over the summer. We used unbleached flour and rye flour. It turned out pretty well. We don’t have it anymore though, he gave it to his mother.
Josh, these ‘trigger word’ ballot initiatives aren’t supposed to pass, the idea is that whatever unConstitutional restriction they’ve got on there this time will get ‘our kind’ all excited about ‘voting to save the babies’ and get ‘our kind’ to the polling place where after they vote on that they will proceed to vote for ‘our’ candidates.
If their initiatives actually went into effect, and abortion was banned, it would ruin the whole con game. The plan is to constantly recycle the same hot button issue so that the rubes get sucked into the polls every election. Their State doesn’t even have to spend money to defend the law, since they set up Legal Action Funds to do that, filled by the plutocrats as an ordinary part of campaign expenses.
I wish the liberals would start doing this with initiatives about recycling or supporting labor unions or net neutrality or something, but apparently they’re just not willing to game the system to that extent.
It has not been my experience that ‘cheaters never prosper’. Some of them make a really good thing out of cheating and get away with it for YEARS. The repulsive Joe Miller ended up on the Republican ballot in the last election because through careful timing they got a “parental consent law” initiative on the same ballot (something our Supreme Court had previously ruled unconstitutional), the preachers got the troops organized, and the fundies all showed up for an election that otherwise had a low turnout.
You think it’s outrageous that they are trying to pass laws that will enslave women to ‘save the babies’? The truth is worse. They don’t gave a rip about the babies or the women, they just know the issue will galvanize the fundies and the politicians can be sure they’ll keep their jobs. They have no problem sacrificing a few poor women for that ignoble goal. There are always lot of poor women, especially with Republicans in power.
@ Josh “setting off firecrackers in the street”
If you’re willing to stay up late, call the cops and tell them you think you hear shots —
Caine
And kill anyone who provided it IIRC.
Starstuff
That completely sounds like something they would do. -_-
If anyone’s perusing Butterflies and Wheels, keep an eye out for this guy Egbert. Guy’s a real pissant.
Josh:
Ugh. My sympathies. There’s a couple of those village idiots in my village. Booze? Check. Whoopin’ and hollerin’? Check. Firecrackers? Check. :eyeroll:
The one thing they haven’t managed to do is blow themselves up. A gal can hope…
Pissant is a fun word! Kind of reminds me of when I was 10 and I thought “skank” was a fun word. I didn’t know what it actually meant, but I’d herd my father say it. When my mother picked me up and heard me saying it she was really pissed at my father.
@ Caine
Hug Certificates ™ being expedited to your usb as you read this. They don’t expire, so you can either exchange them for small gentle hugs now, or save them up for one giant big celebratory bear hug when you feel up to it.
@ Josh
…life, gay marriage, womens’rights, disabled access, childrens’rights…. Don’t these buffoons ever get the message that the issues concerning basic human rights are NOT negotiable?
@ Walton
Have you ever read “Narcissus and Goldmund”, by Hermann Hesse? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_and_Goldmund.) Methinks thou art Goldmund/Apollo …
Josh, I don’t know where you got your starter recipe, but the last time I successfully got a starter going, without yeast, I followed this procedure.
still catching up but
Caine’s here! and relatively OK.
So, Yay!
Theophontes:
Aaaaaaaaw, so sweet. Thank you. :)
Chigau:
Hi Chigau, thanks!
Some asshole just came over to my house and, among other things, helped himself to six of MY beers while I was out getting dinner and a lighter.
I now have one left.
-seethes and drinks beer, chasing it with Sailor Jerry-
It’s been nice talking to you guys this evening, but it’s time for me to go to bed (before I start drooling on my laptop). Goodnight all.
Hey Setar! Gettem!
(Disclaimer: I’m posting this cos I remembered that a while back you really wanted to stomp some privilege-denyin’ troll ass. If you don’t feel like gettinem tonight, I have no intention of pushing you. :D (Unfortunately, this one comes pre-babbling, so there isn’t so much the satisfaction of pushing hir into the babbling phase.))
ALSO. Thread, I ♥ you. I sleepy. Goodnight.
O..kaaayyy, that was oddly specific.
That’s the third time I’ve had a particularly long, vivid, and detailed dream in which I have tardive dyskinesia – specifically: intermittent but progressive; mature onset, not congenital, and not as a side effect of prescription drug use (though without ruling out effects of earlier drug use, prescription or otherwise); loss of control and random movement of my hands, arms, tongue, mouth and face. In the dream, I know what it is, and what it’s called, and I have a medication that can ameliorate the symptom.
The first dream involved the first appearances of the symptom, extensive hospital tests, professional bafflement at the presentation and aetiology, the awareness that the condition was worsening – in that the outbreaks were becoming longer each time – some panic, and the prescription of the medication. Also the awareness that the medication was merely, and unreliably, symptomatic relief, not a cure, and that the outlook was not good – likely to lead to increasing loss of independence, state care, and possible early death.
In this dream, which reads much like a sequel to the previous one, I was at a dance party held in a huge, sort of rococco/baroque Italianate/Indianesque mansion belonging to someone in my extended family. Amongst a fun time being had by all, myself included, I chose to partake of some marijuana, and of dream-unspecified party drugs (knowing me, presumably MDMA or a black-market substitute thereof, and/or acid). some time after that, I had a TD episode.
In amonst the random flailing of my arms, they became entangled in the shoulder straps of the backpack I was wearing, making it impossible for me to reach my medication. Hence ensued the spectacle of wandering (with some difficulty) from ballroom to marble hall to courtyard and explaining my predicament (with some difficulty) to people fucked up on drugs, that I was not myself fucked up on drugs (conceding that, yes, technically, I was also fucked up on drugs, that that however was not the root of the immediate problem, but that yes, I could see how one might think that, what with the gurning and flailing and slurring) and that if someone would be so kind as to help me with my incredibly heavy backpack (did I mention the trio of huge {say, 2x1x1 ft}, deep cycle lead acid batteries in the bottom compartments?) I would be most grateful – part of the urgency being that I had lost my party companions (to whit, my nuclear family) and my lift home.
At some point, my father’s brother and his family returned home (as this was in fact their home). I caught sight of him and his wife through a door – immediately recognising him, though I had never met him before, and he does not exist in IRL, because he was my father’s spitting image, though with a black goatee – where he fulminated (justifiably, it seemed to me) at the outrage of his property being thus despoiled without his permission and stormed off in search of culprits before I had a chance to plead for help.
As my struggle to communicate became increasingly desperate and farcical, I found myself in an outdoor paved forecourt off the main building, with a small crowd of curious, compassionate but incomprehending onlookers doing their level, if somewhat impaired, best to become less incomprehending. Just as a breakthrough in understanding seemed imminent, two of my brothers* appeared from an entrance to the main building, one (the IRL acerbic, bitter and grudge-holding one) announcing that he/they had “had enough of this shit” and were leaving with or without me.
Finally, some small contingent got my drift and proceeded to assist me. I had not been previously significantly hampered by the weight of the batteries because a thick roll of paper had at some point been attached to the bottom of the backpack, and between the polished marble floors and some rolling, had allowed me to remain upright and move about. The first, bottom-most battery was extracted without difficulty, being merely strapped on beneath, but some incomprehension of the excessive weight and difficulty remained, as the other two were hidden inside – that and my speaking impediment. I found myself being assisted by chaotic and unseen hands, pitched hither and thither forward towards alarmingly solid-looking stone paving, steps, garden promenade balustrades, and assorted statuary, amidst much chatter and my own slurred attempts at explaining that there were more batteries to remove (yes yes, lead weights and acid to remove from my “baggage”, paging Dr. Freud) and that if someone could help disentangle my arms that would be lovely, ta.
I found myself being essentially frog-marched along the footpath of a busy highway alongside a park to the right. As we passed a small roadside temple, I managed to explain the extra batteries to my (by then) lone companion, and we climbed the steps looking for a convenient point to remove them. Attempting to communicate my idea of removing them by laying me face down on a step and removing them rearwards, (Dr. Freud to the ER, please) talking over each other, language difficulties, conflicting dance to and fro. Finally he managed to remove them both downwards, stumble with them in his arms for a while and put them down.
We sat on the stone steps of the temple overlooking the river/ocean/lake at the base of the steps (had we stumbled to the opposite side of the temple, or simply dream-relocated to a different temple?) I found my companion to be a muscular, shirtless and admittedly rather gorgeous young man of indeterminate Polynesian/Indian/East Asian appearance, with a simple leather-thong-and-small-trinket necklace. I thanked him; he said (only more eloquently, in perfect, lightly accented English, with cultural nuances matching his appearance) “No problem, you’re welcome”.
The dream ended with my arms free, medication taken, and the two of us sitting in silence taking in the sounds and sights of temple, water, nature and other primates.
* possibly relevant – the two co-executors of my father**’s will
** my IRL, has-terminal-cancer father
Finally, before I freak myself out even further by consulting Dr Google and Professor W. Pedia, (and I have been observing the movement of my arms and hands like a paranoid hawk since I woke up and began this epistle) I haz questions:
– Is tardive dyskinesia with the qualifiers in my first two paragraphs even a thing?
– Do dreams (being neurological phenomena) ever contain early indicators of other, currently sub-clinical, neurological phenomena?
Rest assured, chigau (), Saturn is much prettier.
{obligatory joke about “Uranus” goes here}
Divorce with children really is the gift that keeps on giving, isn’t it. Asked ex for sleepover time with kid today, got a “no way” as response. I wonder what that curious chest pain is that I’m currently experiencing. (I’m not being passive-aggressive, I am genuinely curious, I’ve never had chest pain, and I’m pretty upset atm)
I am extremely, totally, utterly attracted to a woman at the moment who has smaller breasts than me. And I still find hers sexy. If that helps…;)
Stargasm on the Beeb: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14792580
(Includes Jupiter frolicking with Ganymedes & Io…)
Rorschach, sorry to hear that.
Sometimes, we perceive psychic pain as physical.
Broken Heart Syndrome
Very happy to hear that Caine is cancer-free(sorry that the pancreas is still being recalcitrant, though).
Hope there may be moar grain elevators and/or grain-elevator-like subjects, some time … ?
Hi Thread, I’ve missed you (or the last five or six threads, more likely).
I’ve stayed off the net for the past week or so, voluntarily. There’s been just too much other stuff to do (including a lot of mushroom and blueberry gathering, plus the usual overload of work).
Congratulations, Caine, on your non-cancer! And commiserations on that pesky pancreas.
Could easily be directly related to justified rage. If it comes on again at times not related to the ex, then’s probably the time to get it checked out. Is there a court system you can appeal to, based on the terms of visitation?
Argh, double-post. Enschuldigen sie, bitte.
Sure, if one has money, one can. However if one is paying ex’s mortgage plus a voluntarily doubled child support, one has no money to pay lawyers and one therefore can not…
Adding to that the obvious (it’s funny how that works once kids are old enough to talk, they just tell you things, like today, when he was yawning at 10 am and I asked him why he was tired, and he told me that the dogs in his bedroom had been barking all night, and I was like, OMFG what dogs in your bedroom, at night ?) signs of emotional manipulation and “you don’t really want to see daddy” Jedi tricks, divorece with children really is the gift that keeps on giving misery. Quite fascinating.
I’d say it’s all breats, not just big ones.
Things like the infamous L-shaped bedsheets are a running joke. You know, when in a movie or on TV a couple is shown after they did it and their bedsheet lasts to his hip but covers her breasts, or when they are shown having sex but she’s wearing a bra so her nipples wouldn’t show on TV, or “nipplegate” over the totally unspectacular view on Janet Jackson’s nipple, or breastfeeding advice that tells women to stuff their baby under a blanket or second shirt or to go to the restrooms
Breasts used to be a lot “less sexual” when they were rather common sights with babies attached to them.
Caine
I’m glad to hear that. Well, not about the pancreatis, but about the cancer free
Rorschach:
Grief? Terror? Panic? Rage? Anguish? All of the above?
Incidentally, Josh: as someone previously prone to panic attacks, how did you work out that, this time, you really were having a heart attack? Not-dying oriented minds want to know.
Holy fuck, Rorschach. I’m so sorry. I’ve never understood why people become so nasty to each other this way, and to their own kid :(
Rorschach- I’m sorry. I forgot about all the cost involved. Kids are smart, though; he’ll realize on his own that Mom is the one who’s always complaining and mean to Dad, and that Dad is a good guy despite qhat Mom says.
As a life-long offthegroundophobe, that video freaked me out! I have flown hundreds of times; I took the glass elevator to the top of the CN Tower in Toronto; I’ve been suspended by a seeming thread hundreds of feet over the Niagara Falls Whirlpool in a cable car; I’ve gazed over Manhattan from the 86th-floor observation deck of the Empire State Building; I’ve been on the top of a 14,000-foot mountain on the Continental Divide; I used to do roofing, ffs… all while having a deathly aversion to heights. But that video showed me something I could never, ever even contemplate doing. Thanks for the nightmares!
Giliell, you’ve reminded me of something I want to rageflail about.
I’m getting increasingly irritated by the gender role policing in various media, especially advertising. Both the subtle and the … well …
[cue wavy lines]
National Average Weight Dad (and entirely passive and silent spousal unit) and his two boofhead NAW teen sons, in their rugby team colours, sit down to their meal at Global Fastfood Inc.
Dad opens HumungoBox™ of GFI™ Deep Fried Sugared Lard Balls™, and emits, falsetto, an expression of surprise and delight – to whit, “oooOOOooo!!”. Played completely straight. (multilayered pun intended)
Boofhead sons pause, look up in disbelief at Dad, at each other, briefly around in panic, back at Dad, and then collapse in laughter, emitting mocking caricatures of Dad’s accidentally “effeminate” self-expression.
Suitably chastened, Dad bows his head so that all may enjoy their Lard in respectful silence, with their gender identities intact – even though GFI™’s products are so awesome that they may cause one, however briefly, to forget one’s Proper Role™
[wavy lines]
…
FLLLLLAAAAIIILLLL!!!
.
(fair warning: multiscreen catchup post inbound in 3 … 2 …)
Ugh, fuckin’ preview, how does that work?
…. so awesome that they may cause one, however briefly, to forget one’s Proper Role™, and express sheer, unpoliced joy without pondering the Consequences™.
@ Rorschach
If it cheers you any, Carlie may well be right. It sounds like he is starting to think for himself. He will come round to seeing things as they are.
………………………….
For some light distraction, some old cartoons of octopi:
Standard Oilco
standard oil octopus
jerry rigged octopus
Want to look for your own? Check out Vulgar Army.
By the way, Carlie is right. At the end of the day he’ll remember that his dad was there for him, and that you helped make his life more comfortable. I know it’s bitter to console yourself with that… but it is true.
Just had to add this one: PZ & Teh kittehz?
Seriously stupid fucking commenters.
Crapping all over this one, too.
And what I love is how this fucknugget is using “[citation needed]” even though I’m referring to THE SAME FUCKING PAGE. He’s using it because he’s seen me use it.
Incidental factoid: more psychology graduates work in advertising and marketing than in therapy (cite: some guy on a TV show)
————————
A wild Minnie The Finn appears! And there was much rejoicing!
————————
Josh:
*beams* I have pleased El PortavozMaricón*! *happy clappy dance* I haz moar, sir :)
*please, someone nudge me in the direction of a more apposite translation :(
… and as Gahd is yoah witness, you’ll nevah be hungry again?
————————
BTW, Classical Cipher: I was much engladdened by your own dream retelling – at least, the progress on previous episodes. (“Last week, on Inside CC’s Mind…”) It implies you’ve been somewhat successful in reprogramming your subconscious towards self-valuing/care/protection/defence. Which, yay :)
Yaaay!! :D
Booooo!!! >:(
Um … … start with the aspects that are outside your power to change, and throw them in the “lalalaaa I’m not listening to yooouu!!” basket?
*Hugs*, and I hope the situation improves for you soon.
Hooray!!
————————
He’s the AntiChrist, remember? He has to win the 2012 election, *duh*.
Aaaand under “I just scared the crap out of myself” – Obama wins in ’12, nutjobs lose the plot, civil war?
————————
David Marjanović:
I’m confuzzled: you earn € and pay $, neh? Thus, isn’t a falling Euro a *bad* thing for you?
————————
… ummm, Brother Ogvorbis, we’re not going to one day see an episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit bearing a purely accidental resemblance to you and your “hobby”, are we?
————————
:-D
————————
Setár, self-appointed Elf-lord of social justice:
*nods hearty approval*
————————
Lynna:
That would be the Moonification Church-owned Post, neh?
Inciting our
followersreaders to condemn, shun, reject, ridicule, dehumanise, delegitimise, disenfranchise, harrass, assault, abuse, torture and kill Him*?I’m down with that.
(* Offer not valid for real and/or living beings)
Ah, good to see Teh Authoritah so vigilant in cracking down on the urgent, endemic problem – filthy pagans dealing in consensual* sex.
(* yes, I know that’s problematic)
Honey, I ain’t tithing 10% of my member for nobody.
*headdesk*headdesk*headdesk*headdesk*headdesk*…n
————————
Environmental Life Force, or the later Earth Liberation Front?
IMO, the assumed distinctions between, inter alia, extremists, terrorists, governments (and their armed wings), organised crime, and corporations (and their armed wings), are problematic at best, and require interrogation. Hell, throw churches/cults (and their armed wings) into the mix.
… case in point.
In all seriousness, because I don’t have a ready answer to this question:
How does one ethically differentiate that from the calculated use of violence to directly achieve one’s goal?
————————
Part-Time Insomniac:
Ouchie :( Commiserations, from the depths of my bowel.
————————
Huh. I thought it meant “Ray’s sports utility truck”
————————
PaulG:
Honestly? I see it moreso right side up – though only now you’ve suggested it, and if one interprets the point of the exclamation point as the *cough* tradesman’s entrance.
————————
Or launch his skull into orbit.
————————
Given nukes and AGW, and allowing global economic upheaval as a specie of EOTFW, emphasis on “might” …
Oh, like Bill said.
————————
Mattir-ritated:
MUAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! {lightning and thunder}
Doooomed, that one. DOOOOOOMED!! If lingering lack of doubt persists, I prescribe a course of the full original radio series, to be taken aurally before bed.
————————
ange says:
Hey ange, great to hear from you! Would you mind if I reposted your comments under my Facebook post of the video? They seem kinda significant {/amateur OH&S geek}. Anonymized, or fully attributed, whichever you prefer.
I had a few friends who progressed from amateur circus/theatre ropes work, to certified High Access work, and found they were rather handsomely paid (in .au) – as well as having a freaking ball. How’s the pay where you are?
————————
12-step programs aren’t Xtian, they’re kind of fuzzy-deist – not that that is stopping Xtians from co-opting them.
————————
Caine! Welcome home! Pancreatitis?!?! Yaaahhh, eeeehh, noooo.
QFMFT. And the tale of reduced woe in your #465 – much squee and confetti for all!
————————
*rubs eyes* … wait, we still discussing abortions here?
————————
crowepps:
Ugh. Compulsory voting, people, look into it. Also, ditch that first past the post thing, this ain’t ancient Athens here.
(OTOH, I contend that with compulsory voting comes a duty of the state to provide comprehensive, impartial civics education, so, we fail on that one.)
————————
Sure they do. They just reserve the right to decide who’s human.
Ah, wikipedia, sometimes you are deeper than you know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_heart
Huh. I never noticed before that the TLD for Australia was the same as the elemental abbreviation for gold. This amuses me.
Hi Dr. Bunsen!
I learned recently that the Moomin troll season is from Sept 1st to Dec 15th in Finland. You’re not allowed to shoot the ones with cubs, and they must be cooked well before eating, since they can carry salmonella.
Also, the recent bounty of boletus edulis (bucketfuls of them!) has inspired me to jump on to the posh French ‘nym bandwagon.
@ Benjamin “(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻” Geiger;
I just called that prick Ray Anderson on his bullshit. All those morons make my skin crawl, just by their intentional misleading presentation of *facts*, well you know all what their tactics are used. See!?! My english is already damaged by 5 minutes exchange with teabaggots!
I’d be more excited about voting and do it more often if we weren’t given a choice between eating a turd or wearing it for a hat. Or if people were allowed negative votes. As it stands, for me, it feels like the only winning move is not to play.
In other news, I did something I always wanted to do last night. I found a chubby cute girl on a dating site and she asked me to watch some movies with her last night. It was pretty fun. She kissed me a few times.
Does that count as a date?
Thread won.
(/The Wiki that knows all sez it’s called that because the King actually crossed it to inaugurate the dam, though.)
Popping my head in somewhat briefly to offer…well, “congratulations” sounds kind of weird, so um…happies to Caine for not having the big C.
I will happily plop myself down in front of the TV today for college football, but man, the beer commercials make it hard*. The nice thing about the college football day is that there’s games on so many channels that one can usually skip nimbly from one to another when one has to.
* Naturally, all commercials make it hard, but to stay on-topic…
Correct. So, Moonies and Mormons.
The Washington Post seems to revel in promoting religion in general, but I suspect the mormons of paying them. There’s no other way to explain the fact that the newspaper has become an branch of the LDS Church public relations office.
And the mormon Prophet wouldn’t send his repetitive, drooling, soporific essay to an editor that might have the gall to shorten it, or to edit it in any way. Money must have paved the way.
llewelly, I really liked your idea of giving God a bunch of fake fossils — enough fake fossils to fill a Smithsonian exhibit. Make him write papers on them too. And if you could arrange for him to be interviewed by Ben Stein, that would be a plus.
That’s the nice thing about no tv. The commercials never reach me. I forget how much I hate them, then I’m in a sports bar or something and they come on and I think “why is this crap on!?”
I’ve been watching a completely weird Polish movie (it says it’s Belgian and I don’t know why) that is total hallucinatory fun.
Also, some Jehovah’s Witnesses just came by and gave me a couple magazines. One of which has just about the only pragmatic and actually useful money saving advice I’ve seen printed (the typical suggestions of cancel your country club membership, and fire your maid just don’t cut it).
Not enough to spark a conversion though. I feel bad for wasting the paper.
Neh, incorrect.
The Washington Times is the Moonie rag. The Post is independent and considered one of the top 3 papers in the USA.
First off, congratulations, Caine. There are sometimes when a negative is the ultimate positive!
Second, I woke up this morning, called my boss and told him that I am still taking some heavy pain meds and (a) would not be able to drive and (b) even if Wife dropped me off, I would be of little use, took another pain pill, rolled over, grabbed a goat, and went back to sleep.
I got up an hour ago and had some French Toast (otherwise known as fried bread pudding). And looked in a mirror. And discovered that, in addition to removing a tooth, I apparently had a Dom Delouise implant installed on the right side. Wow.
@ [pharyngula phone/computer boffins] eg Benjamin
Perhaps there is someone boffiny who comment on this (Link: Serval Project). It looks very impressive. Would it be possible to put together a free peer-to-peer pharyngulitic phone service?
ka-ZING!
Um. Define ‘special victim.’ And have you heard something recently? Not that I have any reason to ask that or anything.
CR:
As Josh has averred, this is probably too boring to continue talking about… but when has that ever stopped me, eh?
So, for example, a scientist shouldn’t care that hir book about astrophysics is set in Comic Sans, as long as the text is unabridged and the equations are set correctly, because typography is an art in and of itself?
I would argue that, in this instance, typography is in the service of, and integral to, the larger work: A book isn’t just a string of character symbols; it’s a presentation of those symbols, and the manner of presentation has profound effect on how the overall work is received and understood.
I’m mindful of your comment, and Caine’s agreement, regarding how little control artists often have over how their work is presented… but that doesn’t mean they don’t (or shouldn’t) care about them. For audiobooks in particular — and remember that for many people, the audio version is the only way they’ll ever experience the text — the manner of presentation is critical to how the work is received: Read some of the reviews at Audible.com, and note how many of them are some version of “maybe this is good writing, but the reading kills it.”
Of course, issues of presentation are arguably less critical when the primary intention of the text is to convey facts and logical argument than with more “artistic” texts (fiction, personal narrative, etc.). “Roger”‘s inability to see that distinction is the only reason we’re even having this conversation… and the fact that we’re still talking about this and Roger hasn’t bothered to say anything further supports my interpretation of his initial comment as trolling.
BTW, Stross has every right to not care about the audiobook versions… but if he did care about it, he would certainly have the option of negotiating some degree of creative control. An author owns all rights to hir work to begin with, and others acquire rights only with the author’s agreement.
****
As a total aside, I have a nit to pick with Stross WRT Saturn’s Children: He uses (consistently, at least, which is to his credit) the astronomical term opposition entirely incorrectly. On several occasions, Stross has his protagonist say planets are “at opposition” when she means they’re on opposite sides of the Sun, and thus as far apart as they ever get. In actual usage, though, “opposition” means that the Sun and a superior planet (i.e., farther from the Sun) are on opposite sides of the sky as viewed from an inferior planet. Thus, Earth and Mars are “at opposition” not (as Stross’ usage would suggest) when they’re on opposite sides of the Sun and a straight line between them would pass through the center of the Sun, but rather when they’re on the same side of the Sun, and a straight line between them could be extended to pass through the center of the Sun. In this condition, they’re actually at their closest approach, not their greatest separation.
The actual distance between planets varies from opposition to opposition, because of the relative eccentricities of their orbits, which is why oppositions of Mars (which happen roughly every 2 years) are sometimes talked about as better or worse (and why that bogus thing about Mars appearing as big as the Moon keeps rattling around in teh intertoooooobz), but opposition is always relatively the best time to observe Mars from Earth, and not the time when Mars is hidden behind the blazing Sun (as it would be, if Stross’ usage were correct).
To be fair, Stross’ usage seems intuitive, and the correct usage seems counterintuitive: Language — even scientific language — is a funny ol’ thing, innit?
Oh, christ. You’re right, of course. Fifty lashes for me.
I knew I was feeling a bit dull this morning, but hadn’t realized that my brain was basically on vacation. Fuck.
“Do you think Steven Spielberg pays any attention to whether the projectors in the Bumfuck, AR, 2-plex aren’t quite bright enough and the popcorn is stale?”
Umm, actually George Lucas’ companies do actually care that much about the presentation. They specify the sound and projector capabilities and if there are complaints they investigate. Even in Bumfuck, AR. (They might care about the popcorn freshness index, but that’s not included in the contract.)
When I watch TV at all, I’m generally watching either the Greater or Lesser Glorious People’s Media Soviet. The Greater is entirely devoid of commercial advertising (public service announcements, station promotions, and promotions for their other media only, and even that only between, not amongst, program material) and the Lesser is blessed with a mere smattering of high-end commercials (luxury cars, investments, insurance and the like) with chartered lower limits on spacing (again, between, or once per half hour during). All hail the People’s Media!
My addiction to glossy high-drama talent shows has exposed me to the propaganda aimed at the hoi polloi, much to my dismay.
drbunsen:
Um…
…yeah. I would also argue that even with high-quality comprehensive, impartial civics education, it’s impossible to compel people to care about, or pay attention to, politics. I’m provisionally in favor of changing our voting system to some form of preferential ballot or instant runoff, but I’m opposed to forcing (or even encouraging) people to vote when they don’t know or care what the issues are.
****
Re the “temple” of sex…. I grok that most of us here are generally opposed to special legal treatment of religion (e.g., tax exemptions, carve-outs in employment law, special zoning treatment, etc.), but we all broadly support the concept of religious freedom, don’t we?
That being the case, it’s not had to imagine a pantheistic/neopagan sect that genuinely did consider sexual practices to be sacramental. Given that it’s not unprecedented for religious congregations to charge fees (perhaps I’m mistaken, but don’t, for instance, Jewish congregations actually sell tickets for some holiday worship services?), on what basis could sacramental sex be legally banned, even if a fee were charged? Is this not similar to the religious use of peyote by Native Americans: An otherwise illegal practice legitimized by its sacramental nature?
Or, to put it more bluntly, doesn’t worshiping human sexuality make more sense than worshiping Yahweh? Jus’ sayin’….
El Pfft! declares ChasCPetersen correct.
Just got a large pepperoni pizza for a bit over $5. Ate half of it ($2.50-ish) and the rest will either be dinner or tomorrow’s breakfast (or maybe both).
Considering that my original lunch plans (mac and cheese with tuna) would have been in the $3 ballpark, I actually saved money by ordering pizza. Go me.
Benjamin:
Cold leftover pizza, straight out of the fridge, is Nature’s Perfect Food™; heating it up is the devil’s fucking work!
I haz spoken! ;^)
“The Post is independent and considered one of the top 3 papers in the USA.”
WaPo is not independent. It is a corporation whose primary money maker is the for-profit Kaplan schools. Read the editorials, they are whores to their corporate masters.
Er, speaking of inadvertently anatomical images.
If one were to heat it in a microwave, then I agree. However, an Italian sausage and jalapeno pizza slice heated in a toaster oven until the bottom is nice and crispy is definately the wok of the FSM.
Brother Og:
A new chain of Pastafarian/Chinese restaurants? How do I invest?
The spirit of Tpyos is strong in this one. Or the spirit of Vicodin. Either one.
One of my favourite cheap chinese takeout meals is yat ga mein. Chicken broth, thick noodles, fresh veggies, and shrimp, beef, or pork. Excellent and cheap.
Despite the inherent value you assume for (since some scientists may want their books in that font), it doesn’t make the author’s work any better or worse. A good reader/listener/viewer is capable of looking past those aspects of the presentation, whether they’re positive or negative, to appreciate the form and content of the work in question.
(Here I refer to the work of the author, not the typographer. Remember that I consider most things people do to be “art” of some kind, but please don’t assume I’m claiming the typographer’s work is a “lesser” one. It just isn’t the same as the author’s, who has his or her own point of view, interests and criteria, which may be independent of anyone else’s.)
If a poorly-written book has an absolutely dazzling presentation, a good reader and critical thinker wouldn’t be swayed by that either, just as a conscientious voter can see past a politician’s appearance and demeanor to actually consider the content and likely consequences of their platform. An author concerned with the quality of his or her art should take those sorts of criticisms more seriously, and encourage conditions which make them more likely, rather than ones which have little to no relevance to the author’s own contributions to the end product. One may object to lots of eye-popping graphics and glitzy features in a book, if they’re enough to distract from the text, because that could diminish the likelihood the author will get the kind of substantive criticisms he or she wants.
My argument is only that some don’t and shouldn’t care, for what seem to me to be good reasons, not that all authors do or should think this way.
No no no no, because cold cheese is EVIL. It must be warmed to room temperature.
Back in the day this was all de rigeur. Temples where the place to have sex. Even as late as 400 bc, Herodotus remarked that the only temples where this did not occure were of the Greeks and the Egyptians. At earlier times there where also prostitutes working in temples (some scholars refute this.)
The whole point of early religion was to beget children and agricultural produce in abundance and the way to do this was through sex – as religious ritual. I am at a loss as to what positive effect modern “religion” is supposed to have.
Benjamin,
Panel three speaks too.
___
ange,
Thank you for the insight. It seemed a little offputting to have the safety harness, but use it so sparingly.
___
Caine,
Another six days? Ouch. Keep on doing something, which I see you are on top of. I can ill imagine fifteen hours of correction, your patience is amazing.
___
Alethea,
Thank you for clarifying.
___
The problem with commonsense is that it is so damn common and has so little sense.
___
Rorschach,
Still not a doctor, but I have a host of chest related pains. Stress is a trigger for most of them, so it could just be something small that your living situation is agravating.
_
Side note, sexy is so much more than one attribute.
___
Minnie,
Yays for stepping back into the Thread. At least you caught some blueberries, too bad they came with mushrooms.
___
DrBunsen,
You got some in your eyes?
___
TLC,
I think you meant to be endearing, but calling a romantic interest chubby is a little problematic, isn’t it?
In any event, yay on spending time with someone. Who cares if it’s a date?
___
I don’t TV, but even when I did, watching five or six things at a time pretty much avoided any commercial issues.
___
Ogvorbis,
Well, at least you got French toast. I love a good fried bread pudding.
___
Bill D,
This is only true if there is no pepperoni on the pizza. Yuck.
dr. bunsen:
Oh, I’m still mighty prone, not just previously! :))
This was actually easy, because I was not having a panic attack or any appreciable level of anxiety when the heart attack started. I was upset about the health of my cat, but nowhere near Anxietyville. My symptoms were entirely physical – chest pain, jaw pain, left arm pain, profuse sweating. Once I got over the initial disbelief that I could actually be having a heart attack, it was crystal clear that I was experiencing physical symptoms that I’d never felt before and they were very wrong. I made it clear to the paramedics that I knew all about panic attacks, and I most certainly was not having one because I’d be telling you all about it and demanding tranquilizers.
Post heart-attack is a bit different. If I have a panic attack now, it’s easy for me to (I don’t know if this is the right word) “hallucinate” chest pain and work myself into a frenzy. That kind of stress does tighten the muscles and provoke sensations of physical distress. But it’s not the same, and I know this once I can get past the brain revolt.
Wow that is expensive!
Better value and taste is to make your own mini pizzas. Smear a little tomato paste on an English Muffin (readymade if you’re feeling lazy), then sprinkle with cheese, pepperoni, pine nuts, slices of olives or sundried tomatoes (whatever is on special offer at your local market).
Put in preheated oven – say 200 degrees centigrade – until the cheese is nicely melted.
Oh, hey Josh!
I just sent you this concerning sourdough starters: haven’t followed enough to see if you or someone else mentioned it before (if so, my apologies).
Oh but cold pepperoni on cold pizza is the BEST! And just straight cold pepperonis too! MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM….
You know, other Asian Restaurants have noodle too. :D
Not only do I not like pepperoni, but it does not like me.
Gyeong,
Now I want noodles. Preferably with curry, lime, and basil, but hey, I am flexible.
When cooked properly, so are noodles.
Operation Corruption™ is proceeding well – we are planning a viewing of the 1930s Invisible Man, which NMB has never been allowed to see because “it’s about a sociopath.” How about, no, it’s a tragedy about an overly ambitious scientist? Seriously, WTF?
On the 12 step programs question – the program itself is almost aggressively non-denominational, and is the best example I know of the “theological noncognitivism” idea that the word “god” can mean anything from the law of gravity to the Magic Sky Fairy. (Some of the earlier literature IS written in an almost incoherently babblish 1930s American Protestant idiom, though, which can be tough to get through.) I know many many people who became atheists as a result of the 12 step suggestion that one carefully design a god that one could believe in – doing any such exercise with any intellectual honesty at all pretty much demands that you end up with a not-interested-in-the-individual, no-sky-fairy, common sense, don’t do bad things and learn to manage your impulses definition of god.
The problem is, that as in the rest of Merka (and now, sadly, Canada), fundamentalist Christian trolls have gotten their panties in a twist and are on some sort of weird anti-non-theist witchhunt, which is really playing havoc with the official “benign anarchy” “any group is a member that says it is and has no other affiliation” policy. It was better 30 years ago, when the fundamentalists just shunned the 12 step programs as tools of
SatanSecular Humanism.I’m sorry. I just can’t let this pass. If you really think that tomato paste on an English muffin (plus the rest; it’s irrelevant) tastes better than an actual pizza, then I must conclude that, sadly, you have never tasted an even halfway decent pizza.
The details of sauce and crust are the whole freakin’ point of pizza!
I say this as a resident of a place with a pizzeria on damn near every corner.
Ovorbis,
I am not that limber.
Someone catch that g before it messes up another comment.
Tomato paste on a English muffin?
FUGGHEDABOUDIT!
And I know where you lost your limber: here.
That may be too far to go to get it back.
Opposablethumbs:
Yes, there will be! I’m hoping to get to Arena next week, which is an official ghost town. It has 3 houses, a school and…elevators! Also, Richardton has lovely elevators too, and I need to get back there to photograph some other stuff.
Minnie The Finn:
Thanks, Minnie! The pancreas, eh, it’s proving to be one cranky organ.
Giliell:
Thanks, Giliell. It was good news in the midst of too much bad news.
drbunsen:
Hiya, Dr. Bunsen. Thanks. :)
Rey:
Hallo Rey, good to see you. Thanks for the happies.
Ogvorbis:
True that, thank you. My commiserations on the tooth.
Dhorvath:
Yeah, the 2nd episode was bad. Oh man, that 15 hour work session was, um, tough. That’s what I get for being an idiot. It’s the most difficult thing for me, that so many hours results in so little done. As different from painting as could be. I’m pretty sure I’m never going to want to see (let alone do) a satin stitch again once I’m done with it.
Dang, been one of those days. Wanted to clean the Idle Air Control Bypass Valve on my Probe (gets dirty, a common problem). Got the tools including a T-25 socket for one screw. Oops, the T-25 screw is the tamper proof version. Run to the closest hardware, they don’t have a tamper proof version, run to the next closest, and one is hiding behind a misplaced similar article. Open housing, and sure enough the valve is stuck. Clean valve (we chemists have solutions) and housing, put back together. Start car. Look under hood, gas is gushing out a tube.
Search around the house for our pair of common pliers to loosen the clamps on the hose. MIA. Seems these pliers are found once every other year, and promptly lost again–still lost. Run back out to buy new fuel line hose, which was found, and the place had cheap pliers. Returned home, replaced hose, but in doing so disconnected the electrical connection to the air mass flow meter. Finally get hose installed with hose clamps in place, and start the car. Runs rough and check engine light comes on. Forgot to reattach the electrical connection to the air mass flow meter. Now it runs smoothly, and no fuel leaks.
Now to water the flowers…
Ovorbis,
That depends on the type of noodle you are using too.
Cheers, everyone. Thought I’d share this gem: http://narf-archive.com/pix/f7127775ea3ec4070220c569a2b588691efdc103.jpg
Sorry, no idea who the artist is or where this pic is taken.
Well, it’s not like the term temple prostitute appeared out of nowhere.
I’m hoping this one goes all the way to the supremes, for the lulz.
Yay! Congratulations Caine!
KG:
Thanks KG!
Okay, updated the diary/blog, now to work.
CR:
We obviously have clearly distinct understandings of this, so I won’t belabor it beyond one more comment, which is intended not to change your mind but simply to clarify my own position.
It doesn’t make the author’s ideas or writing any better or worse, that’s true… but (IMHO, of course) it does make the book better or worse. I don’t assume that a book (or certainly an audiobook) is merely a neutral “container” for the author’s words and ideas; instead, I see the book and all it contains as an integrated whole. The formal aspects of presentation may be more or less important, in relative terms, based on the nature and intent of the work… but I don’t think the author’s ideas and words are ever entirely unaffected by the manner in which they’re presented. (And I think this same basic point can be made by analogy to all artforms: There is no neat, clean dichotomy between content and form.)
Any work of art (or act of communication) that forces its audience to “look past” something in order to properly apprehend the intended meaning or effect is, in my view, thereby flawed. Mind you, there’s plenty of room for ambiguity and interpretation in art; I don’t mean to suggest otherwise. But unintended obstacles to the intended transaction between creator and audience are defects, not neutral features.
I’m not sure I grok the distinction you seem to be making between presentation (see above) and form… but it doesn’t really affect my position: I see presentation, form, and content as always at least somewhat intertwined, and never entirely separable. Anyone is free to care (or not) about whatever aspects of their own work they choose… but to suggest, as Roger’s initial comment seemed to, that it’s inherently, globally “sensible” for an artist to be completely disinterested in aspects of his work that profoundly affect the way his audience experiences it strikes me as misguided.
I get that you don’t see it the same way, and that’s cool; it’s been (for me, anyway) an entertaining conversation.
theophontes:
Really? Depending on the source, “large” pizza usually means a 14- to 18-inch diameter pie… and that’s easily at least two meals, and more likely three, for even a big (~250 lb) guy like me; three or four meals for a smaller adult or adolescent. At somewhere between $2.50 and $1.25 per person-meal, that sounds really cheap to me (at least by U.S. standards).
What I want to know is where Benjamin found a large pepperoni pie for $5: I’d expect to pair on the order of twice that much most places.
drbunsen:
Yah, I’m not unfamiliar with the concept, historically. I’m just wondrin’ where the self-righteous prudes get off ignoring the sense of it in this mod’ren world: Under the cover of religious freedom, churches can get away with drugs (not just exotic peyote rituals, but giving alcohol to minors right on Main Street); why not sex (not to mention rock and roll)? ;^)
Yah, me too. Of course, at first glance it sounds like this particular instance really was just a thinly veiled excuse for bog-standard commercial prostitution… so maybe it’s not the best possible test case, eh?
Not sure I’d want to eat a large pie that cost $5.
But that’s just me. My options may differ.
Rev BDC:
I’m assuming he got some kind of special deal, or had a coupon, or something. Otherwise, I’m with you: $5 probably wouldn’t cover the basic ingredients cost for a large pepperoni pizza worth eating.
Oh, I don’t know about that. A large crust (2 cups flour, yeast, water, pinch of sugar, 1/8 cup olive oil), sauce (two tomatoes-crushed, some oregano and a little olive oil), 8 ounces of comercial mozzarella, and a few ounces of pepperoni costs about $5 for me to make it at home. No prophet at home, of course.
drbunsen:
Exactly. He’s hoping the dollar will go back down where it belongs.
Which reminds me I need to write DDMFM about those cheap flights he’s talking about. (And get my passport renewed soon – it may take up to six weeks, and I’m actually going to Sweden on the 5. of October.)
What was that? I should have another beer?
Ok.
Bill D:
The local Domino’s had a special today. $3.99 for cheese, plus about a buck and a quarter for a topping.
Hungry Howie’s costs about that much every day, but your comment generally applies there. :-/
Brother Og:
“A prophet is not without honor, save in his own
countryhome,” eh? 8^)Houston, we have solid stool.
And folks say all we do here is exchange venom! ;^)
YAY!
For those of you who haven’t found their way to this yet, it’s an anonymous comment on John Scalzi’s blog by a commenter who was schooled on privilege, was defensive and resistant as so many are, and now is beginning to get it. It’s a lovely post and I’m happy to have read it.
Guys? We have a…situation.
Lyndon LaRouche is onto us.
CC, that was heartening. Thanks. :)
Brother Ogvorbis, A
manperson has to believe in something. I believe I’ll have another drink.Our motto at the Pharyngula Saloon and Spanking Parlor. *gets another grog to ameliorate the likely back pain*
Compulsory voting is an absolutely terrible idea. For one thing, it compels a lot of people to vote who have no interest in or knowledge of politics, see the whole thing as a waste of time, and may well vote on the basis of purely arbitrary factors rather than making the effort to make a rational choice. This doesn’t improve the integrity of the political system.
Besides, it’s a violation of civil liberties. In a free society, no one should be forced against his or her will to spend his or her time and labour on a “civic duty”; the citizen’s time is not the property of the state. (It’s the same reason why I’m opposed to military conscription and forced labour. In principle I’d object to compulsory jury duty for the same reason, except that it’s very easy in practice to escape jury duty.)
My time is my own, and I have the right to spend it however I choose. If I were to boycott an election for any reason – because I believed that the election was being conducted unfairly, for instance, or because I didn’t recognize the legitimacy of the entire political system and wanted to make a statement against it, or simply because I couldn’t be bothered to vote – then that is my choice, and I should be free to make it. Deliberately not voting is itself a political choice, and taking away that choice from the citizen is fundamentally oppressive. (Obviously, in a compulsory voting system one can choose to spoil the ballot paper as an act of protest, but this still requires one to spend one’s time and effort going to the polling station, whether one likes it or not.)
I’ve voted in every national and local election in which I’ve been entitled to vote (except parish council* elections, which are completely pointless and meaningless), but I don’t think it would have been an abdication of moral duty if I hadn’t done so; for one thing, in plenty of elections one knows in advance that one’s vote isn’t going to make any difference to the outcome. In those circumstances, voting is a symbolic act of protest rather than an attempt to change things; but someone could equally decide to protest by boycotting the polls. That’s their choice. Even where there is a moral duty to vote (which I’d say there is when there’s a reasonable chance that one’s vote will affect the outcome), there’s a difference between the statements “it’s morally right to do X” and “the state should force everyone to do X, on pain of criminal sanctions”.
I like both junky pizza and good pizza; I kind of view them as two distinct foods, and when I’m in the mood for one I don’t want the other.
I am pretty sure I couldn’t buy the ingredients for English muffin “pizzas” for $5. (Unless maybe it were homemade English muffins, which are delicious but kind of a pain in the butt.) If it were less than $5 it wouldn’t be much less, and having to clean up and wash some dishes after making them would close that gap as far as I’m concerned.
To be honest, I’m contrarian and anti-authoritarian enough that, if compulsory voting were ever implemented in the UK, I’d probably refuse on principle to vote (even if I would otherwise have done so), provided I were sure that my vote wouldn’t affect the outcome. I resent intrusive government regulation in all its forms.
(In the same vein, the Islamophobic French law against “concealment of the face in a public space” gave me a fleeting urge to go to Paris and walk around the streets in a balaclava.)
Walton,
I like the balaclava idea.
So Doctor Who. Not as good as the preview made it look. Time for some new companions, eh?
Prices in an Italian town in the northeast US that has a pizza joint on every corner:
Large frozen pizza from grocery store – ~$5-8
Large pizza from crummy cheap pizza chain – ~$10, cheaper on special
Large pizza from good pizza place – ~$15
Caine @448 – WOO HOO!!! Good news.
Speaking of pizza, I’ve been eating lots of it lately… it seems to be a staple of the diet in these parts (presumably because of the Boston area’s Italian heritage).
et drunkis maximus ?
Shhh! It hasn’t aired here yet!
English muffins – ~$2.50-$3 for six
Tomato sauce – ~$1.60 for a 12-oz can (Don Pepino, natch)
Cheese – ~ $2.99 for a two-cup package, shredded, generic brand
Total coverage:
English muffins are 3.5″ in diameter (just measured one), so cut in half, full pack of six gives 115.4 square inches. A 14-inch pizza has an area of 154 square inches. So it would take another 2 full English muffins to get the same amount of food as the pizza. There would probably be enough tomato sauce and cheese for all of it, so
2.50 one pack muffins
83 cents another 1/3 pack muffins
1.60 sauce
3 cheese
$7.93 for the equivalent of a 14-inch pizza.
I have no idea why I just calculated that, except that I like geometry. Don’t tell me if I did it wrong, because I don’t want to know.
A red coat eating pizza in Boston… that is hilarious.
Thanks Patricia!
Er. That really was supposed to be profit, not prophet. Rather serendipitous, ain’t it?
No alcohol for me, right now. Not until I’m off the cain pills.
===========
And I have not had a hydrocodone since 11am. I did take a big-ass ibuprofin, but no pseudocodeine for 8 hours. And I am in only slight pain. I consider this an impervment.
Planover’s at the Redheads house, T-bone steak, corn on the cob, baked potatoes, fried mushrooms and onions for steak garnish, and cake left over from yesterday’s neighborhood tea. Wine or beer (stout) for beverage. *burp*
I’m talking about properties of all artworks. If all are thereby flawed in your view, then that doesn’t affect mine. I never implied any were ever flawless in any way.
By using “looking past those aspects,” I didn’t mean they are always obstacles. They do have positive or negative effects, and I doubt there are any which are ever neutral aesthetically (at least I don’t know of any cases which clearly are). What I meant with the phrase was more along the lines that those aspects are in the foreground of the picture (if you’ll accept the metaphor); and if they take up too much space in the frame or the “wrong” parts, the background gets obscured. They can of course lead one to focus on the “right” parts (if they aren’t it), as well as give a sense of depth to the overall qualities of a work, so they are quite important to the work taken as a whole.
A skilled reader is able to focus on the background, the foreground, or any part: regardless of the positive or negative characteristics of the other aspects, they need not be a complete distraction. If one hasn’t developed those skills or isn’t careful to distinguish which aspects of a work are under consideration, it can indeed be difficult to evaluate a work.
They’re not entirely separable, but thinking clearly about them generally requires we separate them in our minds to some extent. Sometimes, rarely, the distinction isn’t especially useful. But we’d really have to go in depth to get to those cases, and I don’t think there is general interest in the conversation beyond the two of us and maybe a few others.
To clarify what I meant about form: the order in which an author structures his or her ideas may be taken as one example. Think of a story arc, how the characters enter and leave, all the different scenes, diversions, sub-plots, how a bit of dialogue plays out, and so forth. The form of it all is of course made of lots of little bits of content; but we’re talking about distinctly different properties when asking, for example, the shape of a beach ball and from what material it is made. (One could make a further distinction between content and material, but I digress.) Anyway, form and content are very tightly linked, but not the same thing.
That is all quite different from considerations about “presentation,” as you’ve been calling it. Of course the typography, cover design, illustrations, recordings of a narrator, etc., are all part of the work as a whole. However, considering only the form of the author’s contribution means leaving those other things aside for the most part, except insofar as they affect it or are affected by it.
Thanks for explanation, Josh.
——–
Theophontes, your second octopus has some impressive drafting. Nice 3D effect.
PZ & Teh kittehz … uh … what is even going on here?
——–
By their woks shall ye know them.
Aaaagh. *facestab* *facestab* *facestab*
How many times do I have to tell these people that gay people are not pedophiles? (In fact, they’re even less likely to molest children than straight people are.) (source with citations)
Hey, the way I see it is: I have good venom. Primo venom. Top notch stuff, and everyone says so. People get a taste of my venom, they’re not gonna say ‘geez, but that was insipid, watery venom…’
No way. They’re gonna be satisfied. ‘That was good venom’, they’ll be saying. ‘Maybe I’ll have another. Like later, in the next life, after I’m done with this whole dying-from-venom thing…’
… anyway, my point is: nice as it is, what if I’m tired of the same ole’ venom, day after day? That been there, done that venom? Sure, it’s the Châteauneuf-du-Pape of venoms, if I do say so myself, but geez, a man still needs a little variety, now and then…
That’s why I come to the Pharyngula Venom Exchange™. Where I can swap venom for venom, and get something in return that’s fair, see? Like I’m gonna go to lesser venom parlours, trade my top shelf toxin for some pathetic plonk won’t even make you blind unless maybe you grind the broken bottle into your optic nerve…
Hardly. I’m looking for the good stuff in return, and this, my friends, is simply where it’s at.
(/Not a paid endorsement. Mr. Milne does genuinely frequent Pharyngula. Or he phrequents Faryngula. Either way, really.)
Carlie, I won’t tell you it is wrong, but it isn’t pizza. But you knew that.
(Full disclosure: I can eat pizza, at the most, once a week. Leftovers will block me up. It’s alimentary, my dear Watson.)
+++++++++++++++
Please, no spoilers about Dr. Who, I’m still waiting for ~2 more hours.
In the mean time I’m listening to Prairie Home Companion & at 8 EST I’ll listen to Mike Flynn’s show.
Walton:
In your opinion. I disagree.
Yeah, it compels people to turn up to the voting booth and put a bit of paper into a box every few years.
Such an onerous process!
Seriously? That argument applies to adhering to any law, you know…
… which, as you subsequently note, is an available choice.
—
Bah. There are substantial arguments for and against the process, but yours is not one of them.
Regarding real and fake pizza.
I can toss some Pepinos on some cheap French bread, toss on whatever cheese is on hand, toss it in the toaster oven and enjoy. Or I can do a triple-rise homemade crust with Tuscan olive oil, hand stretched; some fresh crushed tomatoes with fresh basil and some more Tuscan olive oil; and some fresh buffalo-milk mozzarella baked in the hottest oven I can create and enjoy. Just like I can eat the orange mac and cheese, or I can create my own with aged cheddar and a a bechamel white sauce — eiher way, I can enjoy it. There are some foods I cannot stomach (most canned veggies), but highbrow, lowbrow, Neandertalbrow, almost all food can be good, whether it is the traditional, a new take on an old idea, or a cheap pseudofood, it can all be good. It just depends on my mood.
Dinner tonight: fried hamburgers on slider buns with American almost cheese, and some small roasted potatoes (and I only ate half of it — hard to open my mouth for some reason).
Rorschach, sorry to hear that your ex is messing with you. I have no direct, personal experience, but I watched my sister’s ex play stupid games over their daughter for years, right up until the day he died, in fact, and the pressures of it all helped to kill my sister’s second marriage, and seriously messed with my niece’s head; among other things, did you know that all girls/women who wear shorts are whores? That took some careful deprogramming.
Your choice of *hugs*, *boozes*, *chocolate* and *chainsaws*, or any combination thereof.
–
:D
–
Game Time!!!
–
The Sailor – Just the person (besides Tis) I was looking for. Naughty Marvin came home with a surprise for me. A 10″ solid brass porthole, with abt. 7″ glass. He got it at the junk store for $100 bucks, is that a good deal. It looks like it has never been installed. Squeeeeeee!
“Not until I’m off the cain pills.”
I’m assuming you meant the pain kills.
Is that a good deal ?
I am happy to announce that my ex-favorite restaurant, The Fisherman in Noank, is working itself back to becoming a good restaurant again. They have a new chef who is going back to basics.
Upon the recommendation of a trusted friend*, the wife, daughter and I ate there tonight. We each started with lobster bisque, which had a more than nodding acquaintance with lobster. The wife had seared tuna, which was more of a salad than a regular entree. It was just-cooked-through tuna with siracha aioli on a bed of greens with a lime vinaigrette. The daughter had grilled salmon, served with a cucumber and dill sauce. I had baked scallops with lobster cream. The scallops were absolutely fresh and not overcooked as happens all too often with scallops.
The menu is nowhere near as adventurous as the last chef’s endeavor, but it achieves its goals. And the prices aren’t too bad either.
*He’s as much of a
gourmandgourmet as I am.So, eating a bunch of gummy bears and drinking lemonade is not good for someone who has frequent heart burn like I do… but I’ll do it anyway. It tastes so good! So much sugar!
No. I think I may have meant plain skills. Or sprained krill. Or maybe Caine pills.
I realize this comes as a shock but I’ve never been in the market for portholes, brass or otherwise. The boats I sail generally have fiberglass hulls with plexiglass windows. Small, non-opening, rectangular plexiglass windows. The windows on this sailboat are what I’m used to.
I don’t really know what you’d do with a seven-inch brass porthole. Mount it in the front door, maybe? The thing probably weighs thirty-forty pounds, so you better have it well anchored in whatever your mount it on.
One thing about brass you should know and probably do know. It tarnishes. So either use Brasso to keep it clean or paint the brass with clear varnish.
Nevil Shute’s novel In the Wet (1953) has as one of its notions a system of voting that has everyone start with one vote. If one was more accomplished, one got more votes. Up to seven.
The novel also contained the story-line of succoring the Royal Family from a too-socialist England and moving them to Australia.
And a protagonist nicknamed Nigger.
(Don’t read any on-line synopsis. Read the book. It’s not that long.)
Mmmm, deep-fried sugared lard balls…
*sigh*
Maybe I’ll go make some bran muffins.
Compulsory voting. I suppose it looks great on paper. But, let’s be honest, just how often does life actually cooperate with the plans of humans? I do think the US, at least, terribly fails when it comes to teaching civics, though I’m at a loss as to how to fix that. From the few complaints I’ve heard from students, it sounds almost like they think it’s a boring subject.
—————————————
Well, the swelling in my ear seems to be going down at least. I still have some itching and a touch of “heaviness,” though I figure with another day and continued hot compresses, that will also subside, as well as the remaining stiffness. I did have a bit of tinnitus earlier, but that also seems to have lessened. All the same, I asked my best friend if she knew where to find a good primary care provider, and she gave me the name of the place she goes to.
I also bought a new pair of over-ear headphones to use in lieu of always wearing earbuds. Can’t hurt, might help.
@ Patricia – “Is that a good deal ? ”
Sounds like a great deal to me!
@ ‘Tis- “The Fisherman in Noank” seems like they got back to their roots. I had a real Tuna salad in Cocoa Beach last year. Nom, nom, nom.
I love fresh seafood so much I want to move back to a coast. I pay exorbitant prices inland just to partake. (They fly them in fresh everyday.)
++++++++++++
Rorschach, fucking with the kids when adults can’t get along is the lowest of the low.
Tis – Nice looking sailboat! No, this porthole is big and round, and really heavy. The glass has a screw shut hinge.
It’s going in the old stove chimney hole out an outside wall of the house, to be a skylight.
Sailor – Hey thanks, I was hoping it was!
Dang missed 666.
Nope. You got it now.
EEEEEEEEEEEE!!! That’s five times. One more and I can call myself the Beast. Woo Hoo!
You can do it!
Go Patricia!
Muffins are in the oven now. Blueberry-raspberry-oatbran, made with rice bran oil.
*puff, pant*
You ignored the substance of my argument in that paragraph. I was arguing that the electorate is less likely to make sensible decisions, on balance, if it includes people who have no knowledge of or interest in politics, and therefore no rational basis on which to choose between the candidates, but are forced to vote anyway.
I’ve met plenty of people in my life who do not know anything about political parties or candidates except the names, who do not understand the most basic political concepts, and who do not have any interest whatsoever in any political issues. Thankfully, most of those people don’t vote; but I’ve known a few who do vote, not because they want to but because their families, friends or acquaintances have told them that it is a moral duty to vote, with arguments like “people died to defend your right to vote” (an observation which is half-true, if rather simplistic, but completely irrelevant). In general,
I’ve never been a fan of the argument that “everyone should vote”. Voting for a bad candidate because one has not bothered to do any research or inform oneself about the issues is more socially-harmful than not voting at all. People who are uninterested in politics, and who are aware that they know nothing about it and don’t care to inform themselves (and I’ve met plenty of such people), should feel free to stay home and abstain from voting. Trying to coerce them into voting (whether through legal sanctions or social pressure) is going to do more harm than good.
No, it doesn’t.
Many laws impose negative obligations: that is to say, they prohibit a certain activity. (Or, to be more precise, they impose sanctions which are contingent on a person having committed a certain prohibited act.) For example: “Do not rape people” or “Do not steal others’ property”. It is uncontroversial that these kinds of laws should exist.
Other laws impose obligations which are conditional on a person choosing to engage in a certain activity. For instance: “If you earn more than X amount of income, you must pay Y amount in taxes, or you may be imprisoned.” Again, it’s uncontroversial (except among anarchocapitalists) that some laws of this kind are necessary, since ordered societies could not exist without them.
What these laws have in common is that, while they constrain the citizen’s behaviour, they do not impose forced labour on him or her. The state requires me to pay income tax if I earn money from my work, for instance; but it does not tell me when, where or how much I must work, or how much money I must earn. Those decisions are up to me. I can be put in prison if I work and do not pay taxes; but I cannot be put in prison for refusing to work, for refusing to take a particular job or for quitting my job. (Some libertarians claim that taxation is forced labour, but they are wrong, for this reason.) Similarly, the state may impose property tax and stamp duty if I buy real property; but it does not force me to buy real property against my will, nor prevent me from selling any real property I might own.
Indeed, the law is generally reluctant to force anyone to do any work against his or her will, because of the moral problem with forced labour. (For this reason, courts – in England, at least – will not grant an order for specific performance of an employment contract; that is, a court will never order you to go to work against your will. If you breach the terms of your employment contract and your employer sues you, the court might award damages, but it will not order you to continue working for that employer against your will. For the same reason, we no longer have debtors’ prisons in modern free societies, nor do we impose forced labour on debtors to pay off their creditors.)
There is a categorical difference between this, and forcing someone to turn up at a specified place and time to do work that he or she does not want to do, on pain of imprisonment. The latter amounts to forced labour.
There are only a few examples of forced labour that persist in modern societies. One is military conscription, which I oppose utterly in all circumstances; military service should be voluntary. Another is forcing prisoners to labour, which I also oppose; prisoners should have the opportunity to work, but they should not be forced to do so. A third is compulsory jury duty, which, as I said, is wrong in principle but so trivially-avoidable in practice that I don’t think it worthwhile to oppose it. A fourth is compulsory voting, which, while relatively trivial in comparison with the other examples, is wrong in principle.
Of course, this might all sound rather extreme as a reaction to the not-very-onerous duty of making a mark on a ballot paper once every few years. And if the effort involved in voting were my only concern, I wouldn’t care much either way about compulsory voting. But voting is also a politically-significant act, for obvious reasons: even if your vote makes no difference to the outcome of the election, it’s a symbolic gesture. Aside from being a sign of support for a candidate, it can be interpreted as a sign of support for the legitimacy of the system and the process. People should not be forced to do this against their will.
Patricia, OM
666-5
Be afraid.
Be very afraid.
Doctor Who in less than 10 minutes :D
Who’s excited? (see what I did there?)
Sorry, I was dead tired when I wrote that. I suppose it is, but I didn’t see it that way because I’m attracted to chubby girls.
@ starstuff: *groan*
————————
When you hit 666 for the 6th time, Patricia, will there be a party in the Saloon? Maybe with a “First spanking session for free!” sign?
————————-
They’re showing a 9/11-related segment right now on History Channel. I almost don’t want to listen or watch, due to the fuckwittery this occasion has stirred up amongst certain people, but at the same time, it’s putting a face and name to some of the dead, and their families. I guess for that reason it can’t hurt to listen for a while.
Walton, good response — as I’d hoped for.
I’m leaving shortly to see my mom, so I can’t respond properly now.
Ugh. I know that the government probably was up to something shady regarding 9/11, but I’m so sick of the conspiracy theories people keep making up.
History channel in general pisses me off these days. If it’s not nicodemus, it’s friggin Mayan apocalypse shit. Literally every time I’ve happened to look at that channel.
Can’t they just go back to WWII documentaries?
Well, doing yard work my wife poked herself directly in the eye with a stick. Drawing blood. Like pooring out of her eye.
So after a quick trip to the ER. All is fine. No damage to the cornea.
But I did learn something new.
They have TVs in all the ER rooms at our local hospital.
With football on.
@Part-Time Insomniac
You know you like my puns.
Patricia,
You need only get 666 666 more times :D.
Tomorrow I am (along with thousands of others) getting on an airplane to go somewhere.
I ain’t scared.
And now I am eating muffins fresh from the oven. nomnomnom.
Rev. BigDumbChimp
TV football in the ER
Nothing like a bunch of spandex-clad, concussed, steroidal monsters to take your mind off your own woes.
Lone Coyote 677:
Err…but…you’ve just…I…wow…
Shit Rev. BDC
Best wishes to Mrs. BDC there, mate.
I’m sick of the whole, “We Shall Never Forget” bullshit. Ninety-nine percent of those parroting it are people who don’t have anything they are trying to forget. The few who were directly involved that I have heard speak tend to say something along the lines of, “Remember the dead and their families.”
Part-Time Insomniac – 666 Party? Heck yea. 666 free swats in the Spanking Parlor, and 666 free tankards of grog. No sacrificing of Pullets though.
I may marinade Walton in the swill cauldron if I hear (read) voting is forced labor about three more times. *snort*
Says the hereditary monarchist. Don’t you think that also applies to those who hold public office? That they should have some interest and ability to fulfill the duties of their position, and the government itself should be structured to prevent that from happening against the will of a would-be monarch?
If you disagree with that, you must think there are some who should not vote. To be more precise, you’re not a fan of the argument that everyone must vote. I’m not either, but your arguments aren’t exactly compelling….
Not necessarily. Voting for a bad candidate who has virtually no chance of winning isn’t usually very socially harmful, unless the election is so close between the other candidates that it is harmful to allow the worse candidate to be elected. That proviso is important, and it applies just as much to not voting, as you’re so inclined to advocate.
Oh my, Walton, your aptitude for Libertarian Analogies™ has not waned.
Voting is labor? Should voters then be compensated for having asserted their rights to vote?
Wrong according to what principle, and why should anyone care about this principle? This is just an assertion, or if I were more charitable I might interpret it as a description of an argument that is yet to come. Still, I doubt that will happen.
Many things can be interpreted many ways. How ethically relevant is the possibility of such an interpretation?
Again, even though I agree it isn’t a good idea, you have to back that up with something or it’s merely an assertion.
Thanks, she’s tough. She is having a bowl of lucky charms (They’re Magically Delicious) and setting her fantasy football lineup for tomorrow.
It was a bit scary but turned out ok. Some pain and lots of blood and bloody sclera, but its ok.
Paul G: I just mean ‘something shady’. As in, mostly just using it retroactively as an excuse to pump bullshit down people’s throats.
Grand sweeping conspiracy theories get sillier every time I hear them, let’s just make that clear.
*eyes the countdown, glances overhead nervously*
Walton says:
Your impression that people who already vote don’t do this is – what exactly? The outcomes??
Then and all, you go on to assert the validity of both rational and irrational reasons for not voting, seemingly refuting yourself.
Right, yes. Must remember how much more valuable are the opinions of people who have no knowledge of politics, and yet see the whole thing as absolutely vital. They’re by definition worth counting, right?
Do you dutifully complete the Census, when conducted? Verbally at your doorstep, on paper, or electronically? Your tax return? If voting were as painless, or less, would this part of your objection (“conscription of labour”) vanish?
(shorter: Rote glibertarian bluster; boo fricking hoo, seriously. You wanna be a citizen? Act like a goddamn citizen)
If I present it to you as a national opinion poll on who should lead, would the political distinction between voting – for whatever reason – and not voting – reasons ditto – become clearer? (No really, tell me if it does, because I’m still trying to formulate and articulate it myself)
If a valid answer (at your doorstep or desk) were “None of the above” or “Smith 1, Jones 2, everyone else 0”, how about then? (* to be continued)
It’s very easy in practice to not vote; yet electoral turnout in Australia is typically 95%. Got the figures on jury duty handy?
Oh please. The “sanction” is a ~$20 civil administrative fine: not criminal, easily avoided – “I got lost / had a cold / sprained my ankle / my child had a fever / the dog ate my mail” – and rarely enforced. And yet … 95%.
It’s also very easy in practice to vote: provisions for pre, postal or absentee voting are routinely provided on request (or as known in advance to be required, eg: remote islands, outback communities, deployed ADF personnel) – and could with minimal disruption (IMHO) be extended universally. Electronic forms are being trialled.
Which is an argument for civil disobedience – certainly your moral right – but not against compulsory voting.
All perfectly legitimate reasons why elections can be, have been and arguably should be boycotted in the real world – but not arguments in favour of compulsory voting, granted a functional polity and electoral system.
Not exactly a compelling argument; hardly on a level with “deliberately not voting [as] a political choice”.
Which is an argument for electoral reform – abolishing primitive first past the post counts; introduction of proportional representation and multimember electorates – reforms urgently needed in the UK and US, certainly moreso than compulsion …
but not arguments against compulsion, granted a working system.
If that is consistently not a reasonable expectation, the system is broken by design.
And finally:
Really. Fundamentally oppressive. Wow, free society privilege much? Wealthy and comfortable privilege much? Remember this, always: we are the 27% minority. We are NOT the norm – we are WEIRD.
Having food stocks withheld by government forces (or rebel, or corporate, or criminal, or all of the above)? Defunding and closing polling places in your district, stocking those that remain with broken voting machines – broken in every sense of the word – while the rich white folk up the hill have shiny, clean, new, uncrowded, conveniently located offices with machines aplenty?
Take your ZOMGopreshun!#!! and fundamentalize it. Hard.
(Self-clarification: it’s uncontroversial that some such prohibitory laws should exist, in some form or another. What the subject-matter and extent of such laws should be, of course, is highly controversial and varies dramatically between societies. I didn’t intend to imply otherwise.)
Chimpie: Umm, uhh. . .I can’t acknowledge the medical emergency you just described because it’s a perfect horror. Oh, dear. I’m glad Mrs. Chimp is OK, but I must continue to pretend that the event never happened.
Walton: Calm down. Veering off into forced labor and debtor’s prisons during a hypothetical discussion of compulsory voting is batshit overreacting (even though I agree with you in principle, mostly). Eat something dear boy.
MrFire: Thank you for the link about using grapes for sourdough starter. I’ve seen that technique, but haven’t yet tried it. May need to.
Rorschach: Please do check in and let us know your chest pains were nothing but stress-induced. Please.
Sourdough update: Day 4 for the rye and pineapple juice starter and day 5 for the whole wheat and water. Fuckin’ things are still doing nothing. At all. Despite the promises of instant success wrt the pineapple juice method.
But guess what? I mixed up pineapple juice with King Arthur unbleached white bread flour last night, and 12 hours later it was already starting to bubble. It’s on its third feeding and bubbling again. Not enough to double in size, mind, but obviously active.
WTF? Sourdough’s nothing but throwing darts at a target blindfolded.
In other food news, the most heavenly smelling batch of fake chicken seitan is simmering on my stove. The reviews promise it’s the chickenest bestest yummy seitan recipe evah, and it certainly smells like it.
Why? Cuz I love meaty proteiny things and finding vegan substitutions for some of my meat helps satisfy the craving while sticking to something resembling an acceptable diet for a person with heart disease.
Josh: I’m intrigued. What’s Seitan? And is it pronounced like I think it is?
Inevitable eventual result of boring small towns with poorly secured comms towers, in Russia or anywhere else.
But Walton didn’t say that voting is forced labor. He said that compulsory voting is a bad idea for the same reason that forced labor for the gov’t is a bad idea. Which, I’m completely agnostic on that position, but it’s just not the same position as “voting is forced labor”.
691 The Lone Coyote: Sorry, but your first post was very poorly worded,and made me worried for your cognitive faculties.
Regarding your clarification post: sure, US politicians were craven and disgusting in their USE of those DEATHS to further their power- and money-making schemes. But they had FUCK ALL to do with organizing/perpetrating the attacks.
forced voting wouldn’t solve the underlying problems with politics, and would probably worsen them IMO, by forcing people to ‘just pick one’. Sometimes, all the choices are lousy.
CR:
Honest, I’m trying to back out of this.
I may look stupid, but I’m not quite that stupid: I was never saying that all art was flawed (actually, I suppose you could say that, in the sense that no art is perfect, but that’s both a trivial observation and not my point); I was saying that elements imposed by those other than the artist that the audience must “look past” in order to have the experience the artist intended are flaws[1].
For a painting, the artist may choose a frame (or other mode of display), or somebody else may choose it. If the latter, there are probably a large range of choices that would make negligible difference (although, I would argue, none that make zero difference) in how you see the painting, but there are other possible choices that would make it difficult (if not impossible) to see the painting the way the painter intended. Imagine a Rothko canvas in a heavy, ornately carved gilded frame, for instance. You might (or might not) be able to “look past” the frame to see the painting, but in any case, the experience won’t be what it would’ve been without the unchosen-by-the-artist frame, because the struggle to “look past” is part of the experience. If, of course, the artist hirself inserts “obstacles” to seeing, that’s different: The struggle for meaning can certainly be an intentional aspect of the art… but when obscuring choices are made externally to the artist’s vision, that’s just a flaw.
Typography was probably a bad aspect to focus on: Unless it’s really horrible, it’s likely not to be that big a deal. But the voice work and other production elements of an audiobook are much more consequential: They really can make or break the audience experience, no matter how good the writing is. An author who doesn’t care about how good the reader is is essentially saying xe doesn’t care about that whole segment of hir readership. Hir choice, of course, but as the reader being dissed, I’m not obligated to like it.
***
[1] This is also true of obstacles unintentionally created by the artist hirself, through failures of craft… but that’s tangential to the point I’m making here.
Paul G: No problem. I was up literally all night last night, with an incredibly long walk before and after, so my cognitive abilities aren’t at their best right now anyways.
Bottom line, I really wish the history channel would get back to, you know, ‘History’, instead of all this nonsense they play.
The routine right wing attempts to keep those nasty poorz and wimminz and brownz (who are too stupid to know who to vote for, which you can totally tell, because they mostly vote Labor) away from the polls are very much hampered by compulsory voting. I like this feature a lot.
It’s participation in democracy. You live here, it’s your civic duty – yes, like paying taxes. Paying taxes also requires you to go to the labour of filling in a form and delivering it to the government by a certain date. I can also be required to do other labour, like trimming trees on my property away from power lines. Or jury duty.
You can choose to put in a blank ballot, or a drawing of a penis, if you like. Or pay a horrendous fine, of a massive, massive $20! If it’s physically difficult for you to vote, you can get assistance for your disability – arrange postal votes, get physical assistance on the day, use polling booths at hospitals and aged care facilities etc etc. If it’s personally awkward, you can vote in advance. Although there’s always some amusing story in the paper of a bridal party stopping by to vote, in full regalia.
RevBDC:
*wibble*
Coyote –
Seitan is wheat gluten that’s been cooked as a meat substitute. It’s pronounced almost the way you think it is. :)) “Say-tan”, with the second syllable pronounced as in “I got a great tan at the beach.” My coworker has a bumper sticker that says Worship Seitan.
If you ever go to a vegetarian Asian restaurant that serves mock duck or mock meat of any kind, you’ll be eating seitan. It can be remarkably like meat in texture and flavor, and it’s full of protein. The gluten is extracted from the whole wheat flour by means of lots of water washing and kneading—thankfully you can buy the gluten so you don’t have to do it the old-fashioned way—so you’re left with the protein heart of the wheat.
Gluten is also added back in to some bread recipes to improve the texture and crumb.
So who is going to be the judge of a bad candidate ? You, Walton?
I don’t like ANY of the rethuglican candidates. Won’t vote for ANY of them unless they threaten to hang my mother, so am I a bad voter that should be suppressed? My neighbor plans to vote for Rick Perry, I think they both are idiots, but I’d much rather have a neighbor that votes, than one that doesn’t give a damn.
You’re on mighty thin ice with that opinion Walton.
Alethea: I see the logic of your argument, and it very well might be a good idea if implemented the way you describe. I just have a hard time picturing it being so benign in practice.
My problem is still with the candidates. I personally think the whole system needs to be overhauled, but it’s kind of an ignorant opinion on my part because I don’t know how to ‘make it better’. Everyone likes to think they have the answers, but really I’m just an unemployed stoner so of course I have the ‘real answers.’ :p
RevBDC: Yeah, I’m probably not sleeping tonight. (Link is NOT for the squeamish. Or me. *wibble*)
I will not feed the troll.
I will not feed the troll.
I will not feed the troll.
…I’m coming over here now, instead of feeding the doomed troll at Greta’s where it’s not allowed.
—
TLC, for what it’s worth, I didn’t see anything wrong with your calling the woman chubby, unless she personally would have a problem with it. It’s not an inherently negative descriptor. I found it odd to find suddenly a physical adjective in there, but if that’s your “type,” then I guess it makes sense.
—
Rev. BDC,
Ow ew ow. Hugs to Mrs. BDC.
—
Seconding Josh with regard to Rorschach.
—
About my Good Nightmare™, thanks, drbunsen!
—
Uh, um, wow.
kristinc – OK, then he should be able to get out of that hole real easy. ;)
Well, actually, is *is* implemented as I describe. Here. I don’t imagine it would be easily transferrable to the US, though.
When I started my sourdough I just saved a cup of sponge from a regular bread batch (pre salt and oil addition).
Thereafter, I use that with flour and water, sit overnight.
Take out a cup prior to salt and oil.
etc.
20 years and counting.
(we’ve had some near-death-experiences but it’s the lineal descendant of the First Sourdough)
(that’s my story and I’m sticking to it)
(I’m surprised anything can live in pineapple juice)
@Josh: natural sourdough *is* literally gambling. Throwing darts at a target blindfolded isn’t a bad analogy. You are hoping to pick up a nice yeast, from whatever wild yeast happens to be floating by in the air. This is why people jealously guard their sourdough starters, and keep them going for decades.
@RevBDC: OOOOWWW! Best wishes for a good recovery to MrsBDC.
Hmmm… I seem to be better at writing tl;dr today than reading it, with the result that I’ve only skimmed the back-and-forth with Walton re: compulsory voting.
I agree (I think) with Walton’s conclusion that compulsory voting is a bad idea, but not for (I think) any of Walton’s reasons. I am not at all concerned that compelling citizens to vote would be a violation of their civil liberties (I’d put Abstain or No Vote on the ballot as a choice in every race, but I’m not hard over even about that). I am, however, concerned that forcing (or, as I said before, even encouraging) the disinterested and clueless to vote on things they don’t know or care about would have deleterious effects on society.
I agree with the assertion that “everyone ought to vote,” but only in conjunction with the predicate assertion that “everyone ought to care about, and have at least some clue about, what they’re voting for.” Unless and until the latter is fulfilled in fact, the former ought not be enforced in law.
Voter access is a whole ‘nother kettle of horses of another color, though: No qualified elector who cares to vote should be hindered from doing so, for any reason. The current Republican campaign to make it difficult, if not impossible, for those people to vote is evil of the purest sort.
Did I just say Mac and Cheese FESTIVAL?
Why yes I did.
There’s a troll over at Greta’s blog? Bye, folks, I’ll be back in a while.
Yeah CC, extremely tired typing. I’m pretty happy about it though, after reading through that whole ABCotD blog I was prepared for the worst and instead had a pleasant evening watching movies with a girl who seemed to find me interesting. And my ex and the baby don’t bother her either.
Alethea: OH. That changes everything. Where is ‘here’? And it’s actually as you describe?
Politics is an area where I thought I knew everything and now realize I knew little, so yeah. Not always 100 percent sure what to think of things, now that I know the kind of ignorant shit I used to believe in the past.
I’m heading off to bed. And, with no pain pills in my system at the moment, I have no toothal pain. For the first time in, I think, about a month? or more.
To bed, perchance not to dream.
My impression is that for Walton “forced” anything is bad for the same reason as “forced” anything-else is bad. Because “forcing” people is doubleplusungood according to libertarian principles, and that’s all that needs to be said.
Do labor and voting function the same way in society? If not, then we’re not justified to assume they’re interchangeable when we add the word “forced” in front of them.
We also shouldn’t pretend the “force” in question is even remotely comparable, in terms of severity and in kind, to that of a prison camp or even a debtors prison. The comparison would just be laughable, if it weren’t for the fact that people suffer a great deal in those situations and the argument minimizes all of that to make a cheap, fallacious rhetorical point.
Chimpy, OUCH! Best wishes to the Mrs. I’ll bet she’ll have a shiner in the morning.
Doctor Who, no spoilers: interesting idea, bad execution. I think the writers are phoning it in.
There are some really funky WIld yeast beers that are worth searching out.
Naughty Marvin has the grill fired up, off to supper.
Oh! Oh! I have ideas that could help fix the voting system in the US!
Ideas:
1. Eliminate the electoral collage for electing a president.
2. Make election day on a weekend. Better yet, make it several days long and make sure the polls are open late.
3. Put new campaign finance reform laws and eliminate super pacs. Make sure everyone knows who is funding political candidates and political ads (maybe make it required that they show who funded an ad at the end of that ad).
4. Stop gerrymandering (with laws that are actually effective, not like the ones that have been created in the past that are just for show).
Yeah, it was an ok episode. I kind of wish they would develop the Amy character a little better than this.
It’s getting more than a bit ridiculous. What is Amy’s special super-Companion skill? Waiting. Waiting for the Doctor to come back to her house, waiting with her eyes closed for the Doctor to come get her, waiting in a stone box for the Doctor to get herself to come get her out, waiting for Rory and the Doctor to kill off the vampires and save her, waiting for Rory and the Doctor to come and get her away from the evil kidnapping woman, waiting for the Doctor to go find her baby, waiting, waiting, waiting. And her biggest accomplishment is convincing herself to do something. Ugh.
@ Carlie
Yeah, it is pretty lame. But I love the doctor, so I keep watching.
I’d say that both of those obligations can be unreasonably onerous, in some cases. While the collection of demographic and tax information is necessary, expecting the citizen to put intellectual effort into completing a complex and detailed form properly (and, in the case of tax reform, expecting citizens to familiarize themselves with accounting principles, mathematics and the tax code, or to hire someone to do these things for them) is unreasonably onerous – especially for people who don’t know the language of the country they live in, and/or who have little-or-no education. The state should, as far as is reasonably possible, do the work for them. (To be fair, the UK census is now reasonably straightforward, can be completed online, and has a free helpline, so they’ve done their best.)
However, there’s no way of eliminating censuses and tax returns without creating a whole host of problems. Compulsory voting, on the other hand, is manifestly unnecessary, and indeed is not practiced in the majority of democratic countries.
Of course it is. It involves performing both a physical and an intellectual act. It’s not very onerous labour, but it is still labour. Sweeping a pile of leaves on one’s patio is labour. “Labour” is not a pejorative term.
If you’re forcing them to do so against their will, then yes, perhaps they should be compensated for being compelled to use their time and energy in the state’s service. But you’re the advocate of compulsory voting, not me; so why don’t you answer that?
If they choose to give up their time to vote voluntarily, then no, of course not.
“Functional” is a matter of opinion, and a matter of degree. If I were to take the view that all nation-states are oppressive by definition, and that all elections within the context of a nation-state are illegitimate by definition and should be boycotted (not my view, but it’s an arguable position from certain perspectives on both the radical left and the radical anarchocapitalist right), then it would follow that all elections should be boycotted.
And people who hold that opinion should have the freedom to act in accordance with their convictions. Refusing to vote is an exercise of freedom of speech, and people should not be penalized for it. If someone says “I will not vote because bourgeois democracy in a capitalist society is a sham, and I won’t be a part of it”, or “I will not vote because the nation-state is an illegitimate restriction on my right to live and behave as I please”, then both of these are clearly expressions of a political view – and peaceful expressions, since declining to vote isn’t an act of violence. The state should not, therefore, interfere with those expressions of opinion, any more than it should stop you writing a blog post or going on a protest march.
Ok. So what would happen to me if I telephoned the Australian authorities the day after an election and said “I did not vote yesterday, because I object to the compulsory voting law. I have no lawful excuse whatsoever; I could easily have voted, and deliberately and freely chose not to. Do your worst.” Presumably, I’d be fined $20. So what if, on principle, I refused to pay the fine, and repeatedly responded to letters with “I am fully aware of this fine, fully capable of paying it, and refuse to do so, because I object to the compulsory-voting law. Do your worst.” Would enforcement action, civil or criminal, be taken against me?
(If the answer is no, then you don’t have compulsory voting in Australia; you simply have strongly-encouraged voting.)
Yes. And I’ll thank you not to lecture me condescendingly about something that I’m keenly aware of (and that you know I’m keenly aware of, because I talk about it all the time). However, it has absolutely nothing to do with my argument, and is simply an attempt to derail discussion.
Of course compulsory voting is not equivalent to any of the oppressive practices you describe. That would be a stupid comparison, and I never said anything of the kind. You saw me use the word “oppressive” and decided that I meant “brutally, violently, horrifically oppressive”, when I did not say that. There are degrees of oppression. Being murdered for criticizing the government is far more oppressive than being fined $20 for criticizing the government, but I hope you’d agree that the latter is still oppressive.
(For that matter, our own governments already do plenty of things – detention and deportation of immigrants, for instance, and police brutality, and mass imprisonment of drug users, and torture and illegitimate detention of “suspected terrorists” – which are far, far, far more oppressive than compulsory voting could ever be. And as you know full well, I spend far more time speaking out against these practices and opposing them in practice than I’ve ever devoted to the topic of compulsory voting. I spent all day today at a training session with a non-profit organization that provides free legal assistance to refugees and asylum-seekers, something I’m doing as part of my masters. I’ve written quite a bit here and elsewhere over the last year on the topic of refugee rights and the unjust treatment of migrants in our society. You can, of course, criticize me for not doing enough on these issues, and you’d be right; there’s far more I could and should be doing in the sphere of human rights activism. But please don’t talk down to me as though I were unaware of the realities of injustice.)
However, compulsory voting is a violation of civil liberties; the fact that it’s a relatively minor violation of civil liberties is beside the point. Would I start a violent revolution to oppose compulsory voting? Of course not. Would I go out and blockade the streets to oppose compulsory voting? No. But am I inclined to spend five minutes arguing against it on the internet? Yes, I am, because I think it’s a bad policy.
NEW THREAD!
Yay for nice dates! Sounds like an ongoing theme for y’all lately :D