Another site expresses outrage that atheists “hijacked” the Blaze poll, and I just got through to my email from Amsterdam and whew, I have gotten so much hate mail overnight! It gives me a warm happy glow to see the frothing.
Here’s a ‘nice’ one. Too bad he wants to argue creationism with me!
Our tax dollars go to support you and the educational elite to “educate” the youth of this nation and this is how you use your position?
Who don’t you get out in the real world and leave the world of academia and see how the real people of this country live and what they worship?
If you would like to carry on some “long distance” dialogue, please feel free to call me.
BTW, I only have an undergraduate degree in music, but I am fairly decent at communicating.
May God bless you and yours,
Jack
This one from Joseph Hasay isn’t so friendly, but more representative.
Loser asshole!
Hahaha! Beck caught you with your pants down you pathetic piece of human flesh!
David Dunn doesn’t like me at all.
YOU PROFESSOR
You are a FUCKING scumbag and you will rot in HELL!!! ENJOY eternity you waste of space!!
I could go on, but that’s enough — I’ll have to find more reasons to annoy Glenn Beck fans.
Hmmm, I don’t think they like you PZ. Something about their idiocy and delusions being exposed. Tsk, tsk, they sound like immature weasels.
Uhh. PZ. I don’t think they love you anymore…
You must be on the right track, eh?
It says a lot that “YOU PROFESSOR” is considered to be an insult. Education isn’t exactly high on these people’s list…
Fairly decent at communicating, but can’t tell the difference between who and why. I love people who will talk up their skills while making mistakes.
Aw, Christian love. Warms the cockles of my heart.
Are these people just as violently angry when people show the temerity to disagree with them in real life?
The other thing about Jack…he suggests I call him, but doesn’t leave a number. I guess I’m supposed to pray for it.
I hope you all realize you need to be stockpiling dead porcupines, right? They’re going to be requesting ’em any day now…
Remember the “summer of rage” when Obama dared suggest that perhaps it would be a good idea that everyone have health insurance?
Annoying Glenn Beck fans is a wonderful thing. Please do it more, it’s very entertaining.
Is there some kind of Xtian inverse square theory where the less you’ve learned the smarter you are?
I feel like an outright sage (useless film degree and all) compared to these folks.
Look on the bright side … at least Joseph acknowledges you’re human. That’s got to count for something right?
@Bernard Bumner #6
Sadly, yes, most of these people are as obnoxious in person.
yes
In my best Deanna Troi:
PZ, as your counselor, I sense anger and confusion in those emails.
You, you, you, PROFESSOR you!
Ah, let there be meme.
The Love of the Christian, it is really what Jesus would have wanted, if he really had existed.
The koolaid is strong in these emails. I wonder if they will eventually understand how stupid the emails look.
I was mostly struck by the first email. So, education is bad, and you should leave them alone to be the peasant farmers they were always meant to be? Apparently, the irony that he was able to write that message went way over his head…
Could be worse.
They could have called you a poopyhead.
Wait, so Glen Beck caught us?
I didn’t know we were trying to be sneaky about it…
Oh god, those are great.
These people don’t seem to be very secure in their faith– they’re lashing out like confused and frightened children.
Which is kind of scary when you think about it. Glennnnnnn Beck is their father figure. Yuck!
Well, at least he was cordial. It’s awfully nice that he wants you to enjoy rotting in hell. His imaginary friend must be powerful indeed, if it can answer prayers like that.
Didn’t you get the memo? It’s part of the atheist agenda.
Heh, the first one is good at communicating. I’m a bit unsure what talents he’s talking about there. I mean, a dog can fairly well communicate his displeasure by pissing on your leg, but I wouldn’t exactly give him a degree for it.
Also, I know religious use it often, but the word worship creeps me out.
Wait. I need a reason? Damn. And here I’ve just been doing it because I was bored…
At least these are asking God to kill you, rather than insinuating they’d do it themselves. Lot less chance of God doing it.
Oh, right, the all-important agenda:
1. Wake up
2. Eat breakfast
3. Think
4. Eat lunch
5. Think
6. Eat dinner
7. Think
8. Sleep
How utterly devious we are.
I agree with #9, let’s keep annoying Glenn Beck fans! My father is a Beck fan and I annoy him all the time. :-)
Freerefill you left out .Drink in a number of places there.
Jeez, I’ve participated in the Pharyngulating of polls since I first discovered this blog a couple years ago, and the wingnuts are just noticing now?
Glenn Beck’s wingnuts must be a particularly fervent kind of wingnut.
No wonder they were so outraged. Their poll results were evolving and changing!
* Unless they are Muslim, Hindu, Catholic, Buddhist, pagan, Unitarian, Quaker, Scientologist, Jehovah’s Witness, FLDS, or any other fake religion**.
** Jews are probably okay. Probably. After all, Father Beck supports Israel, right?***
*** Although, they are part of the intellectual elite and everyone knows that they own Hollywood and all of the banks. So I’m confused whether or not they are REAL AMERICANS.
(Please excuse my spelling in this post. My phone doesn’t seem to have very many religious terms in its dictionary.)
Oh, and if you haven’t read the comments here..
https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2011/08/09/glenn-beck-has-a-very-silly-poll/
…rush right over and have a good laugh. A few of Back’s BLAZE-ing idiots showed up to proselytize and received a warm Pharyngula welcome. Truly excellent work by some leading Pharyngulites.
WhoWhy don’t you get outinto the real worldand, leave the world of academiaand, see how the real people of this country live andwhatwho they worship?Sorry. I know I’m nitpicking. There are just times when I have to break out the blue pencil.
I happen to have an undergraduate degree in music myself (a degree with the unfortunate acronym of BM) and I would just like to point out that some of us have brains.
Thank you for your time.
Le Havre en Chêne – socialiste rapide There was a memo? Damn I never get these things! Must remember Stealth poll crashing from now on. Shouldn’t be hard since Beck and his ilk don’t seem to understand links all that well or at least never use them to link bac to dissenting viewpoints.
Yes please do annoy Beck and his toadies PZ. It’s ever so entertaining watch him blubber and them froth.
Yes, Jack, you’re terrific at communicating. People who don’t worship the same as you aren’t “real.” You’ve communicated your bigotry loud and clear.
Ohhhh this looks like it might be a good one! Excrement? Maybe go full-bore, with “shit”? Or maybe it’ll be something I hadn’t thought of yet!
Wait, what? Other than the “pathetic” part, this is hardly an insult.
Oh, and this:
Apparently, none of us are real.
Wow, I am kinda blown away. Once again the comments!
Aanyone else around here ‘angry’ that we were revealed? I don’t see anyone angry in this corner, mostly slightly amused.
Molly @ #34,
Oh my goodness, I have that embarassing BM, too. I usually write it as B.Mus., not only to convey more info, but to get rid of the unfortunate acronym.
You got it, professor! That was fun as shit!
One can’t help but laugh. Ohhh, how clever Beck must have been to “catch” us, when it’s flipping announced on a public blog! He’s a regular Sherlock Holmes, he is…
Hint to Beck fans — pharyngulating your polls would be worthless if you were going to treat the results as accurate. The easiest way to do this is to make them what you wouldn’t expect. We don’t actually WANT you to treat them as accurate, we want to make the point that internet polls generally are faulty.
Welcome to Amsterdam! You should have said something, I would have waved when you flew over.
@Freerefill in #19: of course we were being sneaky, with cat-like thread.
*tread.
Lexaquitas@41
How will they find out if the people that agree with Glenn Beck agree with Glenn Beck?
@Quodlibet
Well, if you have a doctoral music degree, it’s a DMA. Doctor of Musical Arts. Why can’t a bachelor of music be a BMA?
Also, pink tassles, hoods, etc at graduation. Really? Pink?
Reptilian. It explains everything.
Or a Ph.D.
Seems redundant, but I don’t see why not. There are BA’s in Music, BFA’s in Music, BSed in Music, and so on.
I get to proudly display my BS (though actually I don’t abbreviate it on my resume, and I rarely mention it outside of that). I just worry that people might misread when they see my AAS.
Well, sure. Voting in a meaningless public online poll is like stuffing a ballot box. Just like registering poor voters is election fraud. Don’t you know any Wingnutese?
BTW, I only have an undergraduate degree in music, but I am fairly decent at communicating.
It’s rather revealing that this guy is so eager to make you aware of his education creds, and that “professor” is a pejorative to the other guy. It indicates contradictory feelings. Obviously, a lot of these people have a deep inferiority complex about their educational level and/or intelligence, and at the same time resent science deeply. That explains their anger.
Science is a huge threat to them, but at the same time it’s a club they yearn to join.
Do they not understand the open part in an open poll?
Well I do like the much repeated argument ad apeum: I am not related to apes/monkeys/whatever, therefore .
This looks like fun. Any other polls at The Blaze(ing idiots) to fuck with?
Hi,
Perhaps the degree names reflect the course(s) of study. My degree is specifically Bachelor of Music, not Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Fine Arts. It’s a degree in music theory.
Anyway,”BM” is stinky, but “B.Mus.” is bemusing. :-)
I also have a Master’s in Library Science, which according to the institution that conferred it is M.S., but I always refer to it as MLS since that is the convention in my profession, and jobs for professional librarians are (or were, when I was in the job market) required MLS. Not that it matters any more, since I’m self-employed as a research consultant and writer.
—–
Whoosh! A Sharp-shinned Hawk just blew through the yard, scattering all the birds at the feeders. What a noise they make, when all those wings beat against the air… There it is in the elm tree, a juvenile Sharpie, still learning how to hunt. Birds are so interesting and beautiful. :-)
Didn’t you get the memo? It’s part of the atheist agenda
First rule of Atheist Agenda is: Talk about Atheist Agenda.
Emrysmyrddin @ 50
The only part of them that is open is their minds – unfortunately, so open it let their brains fall out and puddle on the floor.
There were a few items left off the agenda…
when am I supposed to eat the babies? Is that before the hawt animal sex, or right after the class on indoctrinating children?
I never seem to have time to fit all of it in, and not publishing the full agenda does not make that task any easier!
i need help, people! help!
nen@52: argument ad apeum: I am not related to apes/monkeys/whatever, therefore
these folks have obviously never met my brother!
Wow, I have now finished the first page of comments and now i need a rest, but there are 13 more pages…
I think this calls for Pharyngulating every poll on theblaze.com . (Do we have the stamina?)
Dear Beckbots:
We drink your milkshake! We drink it up!
Oh, and on the second page and Godwin’s law. I think I can stop reading now.
Ah, they’re just trying to cover for G’s increasingly bad time-sense and His legendarily bad aim (and tendency to just blow off the collateral damages). There’s no telling when the lightning bolt would fall, or where it would actually hit. Sudden volcano in Ecuador 5 months from now? Meant for PZ, right now. Dead locals? Unavoidable ‘friendly fire’ victims. Eggs, omelets.
–
Just don’t bother to indoctrinate the ones you plan to eat; waste of time.
Well, I know I’m not real. And the evidence for you is shaky at best.
I enjoy a good mashup now and then. There’s this fun one with the soggy bottom boys and Gwen Stefani: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyccmlaKS8s
But I don’t appreciate the mashup of politics and religion. They took a simple concept of separation of church and state – the non-establishment clause and mashed it up with their desire for power and came up with the seven mountains/christian dominionist crappolla. We had one of these twits running for school board this spring, proposing to add ID to the science program and some BS American Christian history. (Word got round and she came in a distant fourth)
So, if they’re going to try and meddle with our laws, schools, elected officials and text books the least we can do is pharyngulate their silly polls. And more. That’s my athiest agenda. Hold the line!
I’m not real, either. I’m integer!
I wonder why it’s only tax money that remains mine after I have spent it, and not private business money? I hear people saying, “My tax dollars pay your salary’ to public workers, but I rarely hear ‘My Big Mac dollars pay your salary,’ or ‘My internet connection dollars pay your salary.’
A principal I once had told this story: An angry parent was yelling at him for one of the usual reasons: he wouldn’t change the grade of her failing child, or wouldn’t fire a teacher who hurt her child’s feelings, or was callously accusing her child of being a bully just because the child was bullying… anyway, the angry parent yelled, “My tax dollars pay your salary!” The principal flipped a dime across the table toward her, and said, “There’s your refund.”
Quodlibet @ 39:
Would a Bachelor of Music Education be B.Mus.Ed.?
BeliefNet is absolutely awful. This is the same site that hosts Rod Dreher, among many others.
‘smee, #57: “Eat the babies” is before “organize orgies in playgrounds” and after “use the eucharist as a rectal suppository on YouTube.”
If a doctor of philosophy is PhD, why is a doctor of music not MuD? Just askin’.
Plus christian babies taste best anyway. I find muslim babies a little too spicy for me.
Zinc Avenger says:
Hee hee, I love that!
==============
noastronomer says:
You have to soak them first, in a baptismal font, to make them less spicy. It also makes them whiter.
Aside from just trying to post for the first time here, I just wanted to say that “Jack” is most definitely NOT me.
But then, you probably already knew that.
JC
I have a BS degree, so some of us can commiserate with the poor BMs.
Funny, though, my educational attainment has never proved useful in regard to any discussion I’ve ever had — either online or in meat space. Heck, the degree only helped me land my first job — after which it was merely assumed that I had completed some schooling. But the work credentials superseded the need to tout my education.
Seems to me to be the equivalent of driving a big red sports car. Compensating for some perceived (or real) inadequacy. Perhaps in the arena of ability to think clearly and rationally?
Frankly, I hope the Beck-heads do start following proceedings here. They might learn a thing or three. Or their heads will explode. Either way, it’s a win.
Just like day-old lamb.
Mmmm, lamb….
Following links from the beliefnet site I came across an article by a catholic cardinal bemoaning moral relativism that just made me irate.He pisses and moans about the the killing of babies(abortion) but nary a word on the horrific abuse and rape of children endemic in his church.This just pisses me off!
Well, I’m sure you’d need at least a PhD to understand GRAVITYMAGNETS.
So what you’re saying is, you get e-mail?
I just spent the last couple of hours reading the comments on the Blaze entry with the poll. I’m ashamed to say that I’m astonished…I know, I shouldn’t be, but I just can’t help it. At first I was laughing at the level of ignorance…then it got to the point where it wasn’t funny…and finally I found it downright disturbing…
I can, at this point, only echo the comment made so often here…”and this is Christian love?”
One comment made me pause, though…
“Evolution is as believable as global warming…”
Um…yeah…exactly.
I think it was Bill Nye who said that it doesn’t matter if you believe science or not…it’s still true.
“You Professor”
Why doesn’t my nannyware block such foul billingsgate?
I can understand the anger: They invited anyone who happened by to vote in the poll, and people did.
Didn’t expect pharyngulation? Um, why not?
Really, though, they know it means nothing. Playing martyr is such an old game for them.
Glen Davidson
Cameron Reid:
No, you don’t understand: In these people’s eyes, “the flesh” is innately corrupt, and everyone who fails to renounce the flesh in favor of obedience to Dog Almighty is doomed to eternal torment (because that’s how Dog Almighty shows his infinite benevolence). This is why teh secks, and everything related to it, is such an anathema to them (unless, of course, it’s offered up to Dog under the sacrament of marriage).
Flesh is probably about as foul an insult as they could come up with!
Beck’s response makes me feel happy, happy, happy to have helped Phyryngulize the Blaze poll.
However, it’s pretty easy for me to have happily played such a minor role because I’m (relatively) anonymous. PZ, on the other hand is taking a very courageous public stand with more than a little risk — PZ, you’re someone I greatly admire.
This might be the reason they go ballistic when you merely remind them of the existence of atheists through their poll.
The other thing about Jack…he suggests I call him, but doesn’t leave a number. I guess I’m supposed to pray for it.
Look it up. He’s in the book. Last name “Ass”.
Nice Christians.
Can anyone point out for me any instance of any Pharynuglites or any rational, reasonable people writing death threats to Christian bloggers, or screaming that they will rot in hell (or anywhere else), or insisting that they should be raped or tortured or castrated or burnt? Or is it just Christians that have a monopoly on that type of bullying, explicit hatred and harassment? …and… eh… “un-Christian” behaviour?
Just like they supposedly have the monopoly on morality and truth and compassion and righteousness?
‘Cause I’m confused. Really friggin confused.
Love this one:
My gravitymagnet is all over that irony.
That’s the one I found darkly humorous too. The cognitive dissonance…yikes.
See, you’re not getting it. These aren’t death threats; they’re Sophisticated Invectives. We’re just thinking about it too literally. When they say: “Rot an burn in hell 4eva, atheeist scumm,” what they mean is…
.
No, I still couldn’t parse it. Too Sophistimacated for me.
Holy cow. I hadn’t read the comments since PZ posted about it yesterday, but they are a complete xtian circle jerk. Was everyone afraid to sign up and post refutations (like I was)? Or is it just pointless to even try?
Well, duh. When you sanitise the list like that.
1. Wake up to the screams of tortured Christians (and Mormons).
2. Eat breakfast of Christian baby bacon
3. Think about how much you hate Christians (and Mormons).
4. Eat lunch of roasted Christian baby.
5. Think about how to best oppress Christians (and Mormons).
6. Eat dinner of braised Christian baby.
7. Think about how to incarcerate all good Christians (and Mormons).
8. Sleep in you bed made of the corpses of Christians (and Mormons).
@92:
It was pointless. (pissing in a pool of urine does not make it more drinkable)
Bill Dauphin, avec fromage @ 83:
I thought human was the part that was supposed to make PZ’s blood boil – after all, it was hoomins who had Teh Sin.
PZ admits that he doesn’t know Jack!
When I was like 13 I wrote a couple of emails to creationists calling them fucking idiots, but no threats.
#80 Stu.
I think it was Bill Nye who said that it doesn’t matter if you believe science or not…it’s still true.
I think you thinking of another hero, Galileo and ‘Adhuc movet’
Naughty Sili, you didn’t mention impaling the flesh crackers of aged child molesters. As I recall there was a bit of a dust up over that. *smirk*
I’m kind of surprised none of these whackjobs has tried to shoot PZ yet…it’s not like he’d be hard to find…it’s not like they’re sane enough to realize there’d be a huge backlash…
It is a good thing that most christians are lazy. While many of them aspire to be fundies, enough of them do not have the ambition to go totally crazy. /my theory, which is mine
What, 100 posts and no fundies magnetically gravitating into this thread?
This is my favorite:
I love Jesus, and the cross and if you dont, I hope someone rapes you!
Some of this stuff is right up there with “Behead those who say Islam is violent” How does this kind of weapons grade irony go over the heads of these people?
Actually, I’m sure a lot more than that goes over their heads.
Tualha, while many of those whackjobs are certainly capable of spewing hate and death threats, very few of them ever back up their bark with bite. It takes a special kind of “insane” to actually point a gun at someone and pull the trigger. I’m sure many of them, if given the opportunity, wouldn’t take it.
Not only that, they’d probably say “thou shalt not kill” then walk away smugly.
That’s sort of the problem with their whole deal; it’s a tangled web of contradictions, lies and fear. I’d like to say that they’re patently wrong (certainly most of what they actually say is), but I think one could say that they’re simply confused; they don’t have the facts straight, or they have been trained to parrot and obey under threat of eternal damnation. And I can say that because, although their comments chill me to my core, many of them simply will not back them up with real, physical violence; that shows that they they do have some sense, even if it’s hidden and befuddled.
And before people jump down my throat for “omg-defending-xians-you-need-to-be-locked-up”, let me clarify that yes, I am aware that there are people who do follow through on the violence. Obviously I am not speaking about them. I’m speaking about the facebookers, the Fox News watchers, the suburbanites who represent a majority of the barkers but the minority of the biters. Yes, they are uninformed. Yes, they say crazy things. Yes, they have lies fed to them and they eat them up. But I seriously doubt they would actually commit murder.
Hey! Just like to point out how using the adjective “fucking” is actually a compliment.
AND: In google CHROME this website’s layout messes up – the bloquotes are misaligned as well as many parts of the text. Get it fixed! =D
Their common habit of praying rather than, you know, actually doing something serves us well sometimes.
Irony can’t go over their heads. It’s pulled to the ground by the gravity magnets.
Irons are pulled down by gravity AND magnets! :D
Freerefill@104
But they are quite happy to sanction murder.
I presume so, because I hear no outrage from evilgelicals, no outrage from the right, whenever an abortion clinic is closed, its staff attacked, and on occasion killed.
I hear no outrage from the right, or from religionists, when another gay kid suicides because of pressure and bullying and being told by them that (s)he is an abhorrent broken excuse for a human.
I hear no outrage from the right or religionists about the hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths that result from wingnut inspired wars of conquest and domination.
Or, perhaps you know better?
Smee, my quote in your post was worded that way for a point. Yes, thank you for pointing out that they also are willing and able to sanction murder and rarely, if ever, speak up when it happens in the name of their skydaddy. That is absolutely true and, had I thought of it, I would have mentioned that.
But my point was that they, themselves, would physically commit the act. That’s all I was trying to say.
Freerefill@110: np.
And a good thing, too, or the streets would be upholstered in the bodies of their victims.
–
You are fooling yourselves.
Few of the crazy malignant xians can get it together enough to go out and kill for jesus.
But a few of them can, will, and have. The rest of them remain silent and quite a few of them think they have a new xian hero. 2/3’s of all terrorist plots since 9/11 have involved right wing extremists and/or fundie death cult xians (source, Ed Brayton’s blog and the DHS).
How many kooky fundie xians with guns does it take to ruin your day. One.
Praising with faint damnations.
–
How many insane Christians does it take to cause a massacre?
One.
Raven@113.
Not fooling myself.
I know there are a significant number of wackaloons who are empowered by the growing visibility and normalcy of the apocalyptic dominionist worldview – fuckheads who have pulled the trigger.
I also know there are equivalent nutjobs on the right (not necessarily congruent with Pop A) who are empowered by the growing visibility and normalcy of vile, racist, violent invective that spews forth from the right-wing media machine on a daily basis – fuckheads who have pulled the trigger.
We need to recover the middle. We don’t do that by sitting on our asses and debating among ourselves.
Are you in Amsterdam just because you’re going somewhere else, or is/was there actually something going on here? Because I wanna be there if you’re doing something in Amsterdam.
Pity. I hear he has such nice boots.
I’ve also heard that he has a mighty powerful…hammer.
–
@107
Fundie IQ’s also seem susceptible to the pull of gravity magnets, wouldn’t you say?
Caught with your pants down? It’s not like you were trying to keep it a secret. Some of us even post openly in the comments about running bots on them. We’re not hiding anything.
So many instances of the word “notice” (“notice how”, “notice what”), then:
I can’t say I noticed anything but a lot of whining. Beautiful.
I think those emails are worthy of a–and I don’t do this often–”lol”.
… see also: ‘no, our pants aren’t down, exactly…
‘… it’s more that, generally, we don’t wear them.’
(/’… soooo… now that we have your attention, do you like these legs?’)
nene:
It was much the same for me, but I managed to make it to the bottom of the second page. Well, nearly.
What struck me most was the straw man view of what an atheist is/’believes’. They haven’t a freakin’ clue.
On a tangential note… this evening I met the first person in my life who believes in every conspiracy theory ever invented. He was a 9/11 truther, moon landing hoaxer, et. al. I’m supposing this is quite common in the U.S., but this was a young Irish lad. Can’t believe my wife sat through an hour of listening to this guy rant on and on with confrontational questions that I patiently tried to answer to no avail. Could hardly get a word in edge-wise between all the drivel/drool.
This is the downside of the internets. All that great knowledge to be had if you just know where to look, but if you get caught in the rip tide of the CT echo chambers, you may as well kiss your sorry ass goodbye forever. Trying to climb up out of the gravity well of infinite delusion must be… difficult.
Found some more polls at The Blaze. One asks readers if they think Barney Frank passed gas live on MSNBC. Journalism at its finest.
djfav,
Here are all the polls by Teh Blaze. It includes questions on Rock Beyond Belief, gay Christians and if you’d like to see Beck on TV again.
Ah, thanks for the handy link. Too bad it’s Polldaddy. I haven’t figured out how to run a bot on those…yet.
MetzO’Magic #126
That’s what they want you to believe.
Maybe that’s not necessary. I have the impression that some polls have already been pharyngulated. Consider this one, for example. 92% of the voters admitting that ignorance correlates with religiosity? I don’t think so.
Beck is the leader of the ‘Mer’kin Mental Homeopathy movement, where the more intelligence, sense, and patriotism are diluted, the more powerful they somehow become.
He’s evil, but he’ll die.
Sooner would be better for both him and us.
PZ, I am not a lawyer but “pharyngulization” looks to me borderline illegal. You are directing/encouraging your readers to go to specific websites and falsely vote in online surveys in order to annoy and harass the owners of those sites. E.g., just take a look at this list of some relevant laws for the state of Wisconsin:
http://nxt.legis.state.wi.us/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates&fn=default.htm&d=stats&jd=947.0125
If convicted, and since your harassment is religiously motivated, your penalty might well be enhanced under a hate crime statute.
Even if not illegal, your targets are using their own websites to try to take surveys of their readers. You’re “hijacking” their surveys and their sites in order to make a completely different and off-topic point of your own. Who’s in the right here?
PZ, your family probably has an attorney. Your university surely does. Why not schedule a consult?
ttch,
These polls are open to everyone on the fucking Internet. Thus I don’t see how our votes (with the exception of running bots) are “false,” whatever the fuck that means. You will also have to establish that our intention is to annoy and harass the owners of those sites.
I also fail to see how expressing one’s opinion in an online poll that is open to the entire fucking world could be in any way be interpreted as a hate crime.
But I digress. Perhaps I should have stopped reading after your IANAL disclaimer.
Next you’ll be telling us that blocking cookies and automating our browsers is felony computer hacking.
And we expect you, with such shit, to be anything other than a troll. What a loser, especially if you believe in imaginary deities and mythical/fictional holy books. Tends to warp the mind, making everything they say bullshit…
Oh gee, a fundie death cult xian making threats. Boring, they do this every day, day in, day out.
And a really stupid troll with a really lame threat.
BTW, making threats on a forum you don’t own based on religious hatred is according to you, a crime. You just threatened PZ with legal action and are clearly a Hater for jesus of some sort. As an atheist and normal person hater, why don’t you turn yourself in, confess, and spend some time in jail?
Or try again. Your threat is so pathetic no one can even bother to laugh.
1. Try the fundie xian default, death threats. We get them often so make an attempt to be creative. The last threat from a xian to me involved someone cutting my head off. Not great, but not bad.
2. You can always threaten us with your imaginary friend, the Invisible Sky Monster god of the fundies. It doesn’t work. We get along really well with god and jesus. They’ve been so quiet for centuries it is almost like…they don’t exist.
ttch,
And I suppose that if I called you a fucking dumbass, that would be some sort of hate crime, too?
Fucking dumbass.
ttch
Great – so we can expect the AGs from all of the states with religious hate crime laws on their books to start prosecuting most of Right-Wing radioand almost every right-wing site in the blogosphere?
No?
Oh! You were just spewing forth, and are full of shit!
Ok, then.
It would only annoy and harass them if the indirect presence of atheists annoys and makes them feel harassed. Which would be prejudice on their part, not ours, so they wouldn’t have much of a case.
We didn’t disrupt anything. Except people’s cozy little bubble.
I hope you don’t think putting up billboards advertising atheist support groups constitutes harassment, too?
Um… We didn’t hurt anyone, threaten anyone, or make anyone fear for their life. Calling this a hate crime is kind of belittling, just so you know.
Their post does have that amusing combination of persecution syndrome and threats that wingnuts are so fond of. I give it a C+.
ttch #133
wow.
That was incredibly stupid.
What do you think “the Internet” is?
Itch is not a lawyer. Itch also isn’t very bright.
The link goes to the state of Wisconsin. The state of Wisconsin has no jurisdiction beyond its borders. PZ doesn’t live in Wisconsin. Wisconsin doesn’t have any jurisdiction over PZ Myers, or anyone else who doesn’t live in…Wisconsin.
Itch should look up the legal concepts of jurisdiction and standing and have his thinking brain dog explain it to him.
BTW, itch, making threats over the internet can be a federal crime a felony. It falls under several of the anti-terrorism laws. As a xian terrorist wannabe, mind posting your contact information? I’m almost sure the Department of Homeland Security will want to talk to you.
chigau@141
*holds up hand… waving madly*
Ask me! Ask me!
[tall, and with pride]
“it’s a series of TUBES!”
AMIRITE? AMIRITE?
DO I GET A PRIZE?
Where’s my prize?
prize????
[/silly]
FYI — I hate that the commenting doesn’t recognize BR tags! How am I supposed to use white space properly!
BTW, itch, since you are clearly very stupid, here are a few things to remember.
1. You will need a lawyer when DHS shows up. Get one lined up now.
2. Don’t claim that god told you what to do. That makes the cops nervous. Quite often, people who claim god told them to do something are surrounded by piles of dead bodies. Plus most states can involuntarily commit you while a psychiatrist determines if you are dangerously insane. You probably wouldn’t pass that test.
3. If the DHS/FBI shows up, don’t try to shoot it out with the feds. That never ends well.
Oh this is good.
Yeah, we kinda got that with your stupidity.
Maybe “professor” is bad because it’s seen as the opposite of “confessor?”
Or am I confusing one magic space wizard’s rules for some other magic space wizard’s rules?
Probably not. Just a driveby and too stupid to be interesting.
If he does come back, all he will do is call us big meanies, claim we are persecuting him, and threaten us with his imaginary friend, the Invisible Sky Monster.
The usual. They are sooo predictable. Boring.
Wow that’s fuckin’ stupid. MOAR.
Hi, I`m Jack, and I hold a degree in music too. That`s about all I have in common with that other Jack; I just want to establish that point.
I would like to challenge PZ to a debate, but it would have to be about Flemish composers in the Renaissance. I think I could easily win that one, but any topic involving biology, though I consider myself well-read scientifically, would still result in me ending up as little bloody pieces all over the floor.
‘smee
Here’s a cookie.
now stop whinging ;-)
—-
Jafafa Hots
Nice to see you!
PS. ttch is a maroon.
Forget that drive-by loser. Over on the Glenn Beck has a very silly poll thread there was a genuwhine lawyer (okay, a bankruptcy lawyer, but still a lawyer) being snide and condescending. Hopefully he’ll be back later tonight.
Jack (a different one)
Wow! Great idea!
Sign me up for “The Material Culture of the Pre-contact Eastern Arctic”.
@above
I choose – the rules and bylaws of the University of Strathclyde Student’s Union – 1981 to 1983.
I’d probably lose, but at least the process will invoke some pleasant memories!
I could also try Norwegians I knew at college* who are still not famous for a bonus debate
* lot’s of Norwegians at University in Scotland in the 80’s — all that oil money being used for education! How socialist of them!
?? where’s the edit button (I was attached by free range apostrophe, mlud!)
Yeah, uh, where’d linking to an open site and suggesting that people vote in an open poll fit into that law?
So is linking illegal?
Is referring to other sites illegal?
Is making recommendations to participate in PR activities, such as voting in a poll, somehow illegal?
Of course your whole idiotic point is that pharyngulation is done to annoy and harrass someone–not to make a fucking point, as well as to participate in actions that the site owners invite, which is what pharyngulation is actually about.
Clearly you’re no lawyer, nor able to think through what you’re saying. Hope you understand something about the internet and free speech someday. Until then, STFU, unless you want everyone to know how stupid you are.
Glen Davidson
@133- not terribly creative, but certainly better than death threats.
What else ya got?
ttch, that magnificent idiot:
That’s where you’re wrong, oh fecal one. We aren’t “falsely” voting. We’re the ones voting for the poll’s only true answer.
It’s sad that these Beckian followers who are ranting at PZ don’t realize that, in the interest of making a point, he and we are actually doing Beck a favor by voting in those stupid polls. I’m confident that in one way or another, they make money by how hits the site gets. More people, more money. Lots more people, lots more money. They don’t really care or know who hits or how they vote, or why, or even what the outcome is. In fact, the more controversial the results, the better. That’s surely why they go out of their way to stir up controversy. That’s why they “interviewed” PZ and then published it in such a mangled version. Churn, baby, churn, and the frothing-at-the-mouth idiot believers will come in droves and the dollars will roll in. Praise the Lord Glenn Beck and the Almighty Dollar. Amen! Pass the plate. Are these bastards cynical? You bet…pass the VapoRub, I need to weep like Jesus now.
That’s why NoScript and AdBlockPlus are awesome. :)
ttch, I see you’re yet another of that spayshul brand of idiot. :coughs: Perhaps you didn’t know this, but the internet is wide open. Every moment of every day, people point other people to various sites. That’s part and parcel of how the internet works – amazing, ennit?!
Internet polls are not scientific, they are generally exercises in confirmation bias. If you want a poll done properly, you do not set up a silly net poll.
Now, as to giving “false answers”? Please, what makes you think our votes are false? We have as much right to vote on a silly net poll as anyone else, Cupcake.
I love that you point out the pronunciation—SPAYshul—Caine. It always goes with pronouncing “him” as “heem.” Ex: I didn’t expect to hear that from heem.” And also: “Are you going to the store on Thursdee?”
Drives me batshit.
Josh, well, it’s a special brand of special. :D
I thought by posting publicly rather than emailing Prof. Myers privately that I would get at least one thoughtful reply. Sadly, despite this being a (former) ScienceBlog, I was mistaken.
Let’s take a slightly different scenario. Mr. X (not Prof. PZ) reads that the NAACP is conducting an on-line poll about race relations. Now, Mr. X just hates people of color so he decides to “hijack” the poll. He builds a computer bot that logs on to the NAACP site, votes for what he thinks is the most anti-Black position, then clears its browser cookies and votes again. Maybe it comes in each time through a different proxy server. Mr. X’s bot votes ten thousand times and breaks the NAACP poll. It also ties up the NAACP website for a couple of hours.
When a reporter catches up with him Mr. X says, “I did it just to show that these on-line polls mean nothing. The poll itself was stupid. Anyway, it’s the internet, right? Everything’s OK on the internet!”
No. This is computer abuse. Mr. X did it clearly to annoy and harass the website owners (the NAACP) so it is a crime, at least in the state of Wisconsin where our hypothetical NAACP server is located (there are similar laws in other states and federally — that’s why I wrote “e.g.”). It is also clearly racially-motivated harassment so it is also a hate crime.
Would it be less of a crime if Mr. X instead “suggested” to his on-line fans that they act in concert to do the hijacking? Particularly when he knows from past experience that thousands of them will follow his suggestion? People who would mostly never on their own visit the NAACP site and have a legitimate interest in participating in the poll?
I think the case can be made that it would still be a crime. I wrote to suggest to Prof. Myers that he consult an attorney so that he can be sure of his legal position.
But more importantly to anyone reading this who actually has a conscience, would either of these scenarios be the right thing to do, even if you think on-line polls mean nothing, even if you think the poll itself is stupid, and even if you hate the people conducting the poll.
Horrible analogies and the sounds of the point sailing far over your head for 1000 Alex.
Seriously.
Horrible.
you really aren’t very smart.
Were paint chips an after school snack?
Oh dear. Too much Velveeta again, ttch? It does give nasty nightmares.
And I’m calling your mother a warthog out of genuine concern for how she’ll be received in public.
might be the dumbest thing I’ve read on the internet this week.
ttch,
You’re fucking hopeless. Anyone with Internet access can vote in these polls. You don’t seem to grasp that.
One that has very little to do with this scenario, because we didn’t trash the website nor did we act on some nasty bigotry against a minority, and by the way, thanks for comparing us to a racist. That really tells me where exactly you’re coming from and that I shouldn’t take you seriously anymore.
So atheists voting on a blog = racism? Beck’s blog = NAACP? Christians = marginalized minority and atheists = privileged bigots? Choosing the one answer that we actually believe in which had no nastiness in it at all = deliberately choosing the nastiest choice against a race? Saying you don’t believe God created people = saying nasty things about a race? Reminding people that atheists exist = being nasty to people because they’re not white?
Are you sure?
Voting in a poll is “computer abuse”? But the choice was there. Isn’t that entrapment?
Voting on a poll is a hate crime? I don’t think you understand what a hate crime is.
So only certain people are allowed to vote in a poll? Then why was it public? What point would that poll serve, if it’s only aimed at a certain demographic? Isn’t that just circle-jerking? That’s kind of the point, yanno.
It’s not a crime.
Polls are for voting. Why shouldn’t we be able to vote? It seems to me that what you’re saying is that everyone else should have a say but us. Is that what you’re saying?
The farce is strong in this one.
“This is computer abuse.”
No, it’s not. And I called it.
Tell you what, ttch.
Why don’t you consult with a real lawyer, and see if she recommends you pursuing a lawsuit against PZ?
Then come back and let us know how long it takes her to stop laughing at you.
ttch said:
I’m not convinced. Exactly which law was broken? In that section of the Wisconsin Statutes you linked to, the closest thing I could find was:
With intent solely to harass another person, sends repeated messages to the person on an electronic mail or other computerized communication system.
In that case, you’d have to prove that (1) the purpose was solely to harass; (2) there was another person being targeted; (3) voting in a poll is equivalent to sending an e-mail.
FFS, you think as well as a chocolate hammer, Cupcake. Anyone is allowed to vote on an open internet poll.
What about that is so hard for you to grok?
Excuse me, but just what in the fuck is it that you think you’re attempting to say here? An open internet poll is an open internet poll.
You’re trying to say that anyone except us is okay to vote their conscience in an internet poll? Why are we exempt? We’re voting our conscience, we’re voting the truth as far as we’re concerned, no different from anyone else.
You are an idiot. Try to figure out the first rules of holes, Cupcake. Here’s a hint: stop digging.
It’s just the usual dumbass fundie who can’t fathom why an atheist would do anything with respect to Xians for any reason other than to harass and/or annoy the Holy Ones. Because that’s what he’d do to atheists, other than when he was projecting in order to condemn.
It’s persecution, persecution…sob, weep.
We’re talking about people who understand nothing about evidence, only that they’re martyrs. That courts would find an abundance of evidence of reasons for pharyngulation aside from harassment and annoyance is as lost on this cretin as the evidence for common descent with modification no doubt is. Odds are that he thinks Judge Jones was persecuting the Holy Ones as well. Likely he’s even sincere in his dumbassery, and obviously quite willing to condemn based on his dull ignorance.
A lot of these buffoons take Jeebus’s words in the Sermon on the Mount seriously, that they will be persecuted for his sake. That’s far more meaningful to them than the fact that they couldn’t make a case for harassment that wouldn’t be laughed out of court.
Glen Davidson
Glen:
Yes. The christians are constantly going on about The Persecution Files™ even though they don’t have a clue about actual persecution. They just want it so very much – they do want to think they are being persecuted, but even more importantly, they are just dying for the opportunity to persecute anyone who doesn’t agree with them.
Mormons (whether this person is or not, Beck is…) shouldn’t be so careless when tossing around the “hate speech” accusations. Y’know, considering that funding to the tune of millions the whole “Gays are out to destroy God’s Plan for America” legal challenge and protest bullshit.
And forget Mormons. Any right-wingers.
From everything Bachmann and her disgusting husband right down the line with the rest of them… every single Republican Pres. candidate seems to be running for Hater in Chief.
Without hate speech the GOP wouldn’t have a platform.
ttch
How long have you been on the intertubes?
ttch, if you really had the courage of your insinuations, you’d call 911 right now and report this hate crime. That would sort things out properly, now wouldn’t it?
Did you know PZ has fled the country? Does that make him look guilty, or what?
I voted. It didn’t ask for my Glenn Beck fan club membership number nor make me decrypt something with my Glenn Beck super secret decoder ring. There was nothing hinting that I, my vote or my page hit advertising pennies were unwelcome.
Feckin’ troll.
Sanctimonious twit ttch,
My conscience is just dandy. It is you who is having a difficult time with the concept if you consider a bigoted, fear-mongering asshole like Glenn Beck to be an example of moral behavior.
So? So what?
I just replied to you that you are trying to terrorize PZ Myers and the Department of Homeland Security might want to talk to you.
Those are threats all right, but they are so stupid as to be meaningless. You might as well threaten to attempt to cross the street and damage someone’s car when they run into you.
Hmmm, you haven’t tried crossing the street without your minder now, have you. You really could do hundreds of dollars worth of damage if someone runs you over.
Unfortunately, you aren’t very scary and are failing badly at being a xian terrorist. About all you’ve shown so far is that you are a not very bright internet troll.
I suggest you check with your mom and babysitter before trying to be a xian terrorist again.
All of you people stop. STOP it NOW!!
All of this is offending me and is computer abuse.
Get a lawyer ’cause I’m suing all your asses.
Two things. First; it was an open poll. And all open internet polls are worthless. Second; one can choose their religion but not their race. It is not the fucking same.
Rev. BDC:
I have bacon. Thick sliced pepper bacon…
No you didn’t post your dumb threats for any other reason than that you are an internet troll. This is just a lie.
If your god really existed, you wouldn’t have to lie.
If your god really existed, you would be dodging a lightening bolt about now.
Raven said:
If your god really existed, you would be dodging a lightening bolt about now.
And I flashed onto Rick Perrys public prayer.
If lightning ever does strike him I will go light candles in a Cathedral in gratitude.
Mind = boggled.
I suppose this shows they have no concept of reality.
Ils sont fous, ces chrétards.
/Obelix
I realize I am a bit late, but i was consulting my attorney to make sure that when I posted i wasn’t abusing my computer or engaging in a hate crime. Can’t be too safe<
I noticed this:
"A group of atheists launched a mini-campaign, spread the word and purposefully “hijacked” the thoughtful poll so that the results landed in their favor"
How can a poll be thoughtful? then again, it is very thoughtful for my car to be right where I asked it when I need to drive it next…And sure, I get that the whoever wrote this is trying to paint the poll as being a serious question, with serious answers and exposing serious issues that Blaze readers have, but that's bullshit. The poll only existed to give the readers an opportunity to have a "we agree!" moment, further separating them from the other"–namely, people with a sixth grade science education in non-flyover states.
And "results landing in their favor" doesn't mean anything, WHICH IS THE WHOLE POINT. Jesus fucking CHRIST the stupid….
“As the comments progressed,” writes Hollowell, ”they made clear the group’s intention to destroy the poll, forcing the results to come up favorable to their own cause."
"Destroy the poll"? How can a poll be destroyed? That so fucking stupid i can barely type. I guess it translates to:
"We wanted to verify that everyone reading our vitriol and lies are on-board with other parts of our agenda, and we REALLY don't understand that the argument ad populum exists, so…and this poll was going to be the launch point of a major attack on government down to the local level, but since THEY ruined the poll and got results in their favor, our financing has fallen through. Those atheist fuckers…."
Mike de Fleuriot has issued a warning that he is going to be watching for this site to have a poll, and they will respond in kind. That has to be a leading candidate for the "Missing the Point Entirely 2011" award.
The fact that these stupid tickers vote is a fantastic argument against the democratic process. And no, I have no better system to propose.
>>>>>Drunk, no edit ability, I am a high-functioning moron. Asked should be parked, blah blah blah. Fuck.
You didn’t make a thoughtful point, so you don’t deserve a thoughtful reply.
Fuck off.
LOSER.
Let’s take a slightly different scenario. Mr. X (Glenn Beck) reads that the NAACP is conducting an on-line poll about race relations. Now, Mr. X (who absolutely must be Glenn Beck still, fuckface!) just hates people of color so he decides to “hijack” the poll.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Too fucking stupid to breathe. Unfortunately, probably not too stupid to breed. I’m sure you have a whole bunch of little bigoted douchebag morons practicing their moronic screeds in lime green crayon–just like the dear old parental unit.
Hint, fuckface: PZ must be someone other than Mr. X. Let’s call him Dr. Y, since that’s the proper address for him.
LOSER
[bunch of mindless blather redacted]
Someone posted a poll that anybody who visited the site could vote on. There was ZERO attempt to restrict access on scumbag Beck’s part, douchebag. ZERO. People linked to it and voted.
Don’t want just anyone voting in your polls, or only voting once? Then get your webmaster off his ass and have him come up with polls that only your members can access, and that can only receive one vote from one ISP. Hell, the fan site for my fave Japanese band can do that much, and that scumbag Beck can’t find a webmaster to keep up with those hobbyists?
LOSER.
1)Dr. Y went to an open website that posted a poll anybody could vote on, and voted on it, because he has a policy of showing that such polls are stupid and dishonest and not worth the pixels they’re wasting.
2) Your BFF’s stupid and dishonest poll was done to annoy and harass people with brains, and you fucking well know it. If you don’t want people treating your poll like an annoyance, don’t fucking post it.
LOSER.
It is not a crime to go to an open website and vote on a poll it might have that is open to any visitor, as that poll was, fuckface. If it were illegal, nobody would have any polls whatsoever.
Do fucking keep up.
BTW, you were given a link to this site by your scumbag douchebag friends, and you’re posting here–repeatedly. By your own moronic standard, you’re in violation of this non-existent law in your empty head.
LOSER.
ttch, I have to say that is just about the stupidest legal argument I’ve read since Clarence Thomas’s last dissenting opinion.
First, Glenn Beck has a website that is open to all comers, and the poll was right there on the website.
Second, there was nothing restricting the poll to regular users–no password, no request to restrict voting, not even a considered attempt to restrict the words to monosyllabic grunts so that Beck’s normal audience could understand it. Hell, it didn’t even mention Hitler, so how are we to even know Beck was behind it?
Third, no one voted “fraudulently”. They expressed their honest opinion.
Fourth, you are not entitled to insulate yourself from all those whose opinions do not agree with you in the public sphere. Freedom of speech applies to all.
Fifth, isn’t it interesting how xtians are so quick to push their religion into the public sphere, but whenever anyone expresses an opposing view, they run to the fricking lawyers.
See, ttch, this is why we think xtians are all a bunch of whining wankers.
I’m new to the blog, but I have been reading it for a long time. I had to pass on commenting on the story about the school board in my hometown (Dayton, OH), but this one I couldn’t pass up, particularly because I abhor Glenn Beck and his supporters mostly because of the indoctrination of Tea Bag offspring. I just hope when he finally tells his followers to drink the Kool-Aid the kids are smart enough to abstain.
I just find it interesting that so many religious conservatives, creationists, and idiots… (I mean intelligent design-ists) react violently to people supporting evolution. I mean don’t the central tenets of their religion focus around non-violence, turning the other cheek, and spreading the word that god is good or something like that? Seems like that whole “fire and damnation” argument isn’t so applicable when you’re wishing death and what not upon others. I mean it isn’t enough that through history there are so many documented cases of your “holy” people covering up instances of your other “holy” people raping innocent children… now you have to be a hypocrite too? Thats just over the line people!
~~~~~~RA’men~~~~~~
Aquaria @ 193
I enjoy your writing, and find your ideas interesting. i would like a subscription to your newsletter.
/heroworship
I would like to add that “fuckface” should be capitalized. Used in this context, it is a proper noun, and since if I EVER refer to the Fuckface I will use Fuckface instead of the Nom De Fail he/she/it chose before spewing the stupid.
I would also add that I am doing my best to get the letter “i” capitalized when self-referential. It is a personal failing that I work on constantly, making little headway.
In His Mighty Name,
TheBigD
This is another lie from the troll.
1. It’s not illegal for a poll to show one result or another. The whole point of a poll is to answer a question, one way or another.
2. Glenn Beck is a right wing and religious extremist so crazy and filled with hate that he was kicked off Fox news. Fox news is the worst of a bad lot of right wing and religious extremist TV networks.
In any open and representative poll, Glenn Beck’s views are going to be a small minority of the population. Crazy people who are Mormons and right wing extremists just aren’t that common, less than 1% of the US population.
It’s not illegal for Glenn Beck’s views to end up a small minority in a poll. He and his followers are a small minority.
If atheists, small groups, and people that do stuff bother you, you will just have to wait until the xian fundies get their theocracy and then slaughter them.
No. The fundie xian’s three main sacraments are hate, lies, and hypocrisy. The god they worship is an Invisible Sky Monster.
They frequently threaten to kill people, sponsor xian terrorism, and occasionally do kill people.
The fundies long ago tossed out anything benign in xianity and inverted the religion. This was noticed a century ago by many, HL Mencken puts it well. Episcopal Bishop JS Spong has written many books on exactly this point.
It’s the complete opposite of my natal moderate xian sect. A fundie in my church would be looked upon like a green, two headed Martian.
Once you realize fundie xianity is based on hate and lies, everything makes sense. This is BTW, not unusual for religions. Hate is a powerful organizing principle and motivator. Fundie Moslems use it too.
raven: “It’s not illegal for Glenn Beck’s views to end up a small minority in a poll. He and his followers are a small minority.”
But they wish it was, and that, I think, is the larger point.
When they play in their little bandbox they perpetuate the illusion that everyone everywhere (or at least 90%) agree with, and are exactly like them.
That is why they parade the word “freedom” around so much. They love freedom, unless you don’t look like they do, listen to the music they do, worship as they do, etc.
Essentially, it is “you are free to be exactly like me. That is what freedom means. Deviate, and I am oppressed, you are un-American, it’s all your fault blah blah blah.”
Your’s in Christ,
TheBigD
ttch, according to some very serious Wisconsin statutes, you need to go get a beer or five and calm the hell down. If you’re feeling really testy about the nasty atheists, also get some cheese curds.
It’s kind of like when Mustaine got kicked out of Metallica. How fucked up do you have to be, that the other guys in Metallica say, “This guy is crazy. He is one of the best guitarists alive, but we can’t work with him.”
ttch, #133:
You really should’ve stopped there, Babycakes. Perhaps then you wouldn’t look so much like a brainless slug who thinks it’s a hummingbird.
The poll was open to the public. PZ pointed out the poll. That is not in any way illegal.
Now, I hope we can hurry up and pass the bill making stupidity illegal. You’ll support us on that one, won’t you ttch? (*crosses fingers*)
One of the things I enjoy most in life is twisting my point of view to see where other people are coming from. It’s refreshing, informative, and really helps to “get inside someone’s shoes”, so to speak.
The further away from my world-view the argument is, the more interesting it is to attempt to perceive it; it almost becomes like a game, to see if it’s even possible to wrap my mind around it. A delightful exercise.
So.
Lets strip out all the details of ttch’s argument and look at it from its core fundamentals: is it a hate crime to intentionally alter an internet poll on a religious subject? or does altering a poll using a bot or via multiple votes in any way constitute harassment?
I can certainly see where this individual is coming from. If we assume he/she is ignorant of law (amongst other things), then he/she might make the leap from “rigging an internet poll” to “rigging a real-life election.” I think this is a reasonable leap to someone who is honestly ignorant of several things (law, internet, et cetera), and we know that rigging an election is a crime.. so is Pharyngulation a crime? Well… no. There are NO laws governing internet polls and, frankly, if there were, I would be scared. But what about using bots? Well again, since there are no actual laws that say you cannot, then there you go. I’d say it’s not exactly nice, but you know, you could refresh the bloody page and vote again. You know what that means? It means that the person who created the program for the poll… is a bloody idiot. That’s not our fault. Shall we impose laws to protect stupidity? Most people who create polls use a program that prevents botting. This one didn’t even prevent refreshing the page. My personal opinion is that it is immoral, but you know, that’s just me. I still voted (once) and anyway, it wouldn’t have mattered because the results would be skewed even if there were no bots. Anyway.
The real meat of the issue comes in whether or not it’s harassment or a hate crime. Let me destroy the first one. Harassment, in a legal sense, can be and often is used a lot more than it should be. So is Pharyngulation a behavior that can be found to be threatening or disturbing? … well yes. But that’s so damn vague that any asshole can use it to cheat the system. Many of them do! I find stupidity to be threatening and disturbing, and I find a LOT of it at my job. Seriously, I could spread it with a knife. Is that harassment? No! You see? If we take a reasonable definition of harassment, then most reasonable people see it as something akin to Mabus. Repeated, intentional threats of violation of your individual rights. Botting a poll is repeated and intentional, but there is ZERO possibility of interpreting it as a threat, and ZERO possibility of interpreting it as a violation of an individuals rights. It is NOT harassment.
Now for the last leg this has to stand on: Is it a hate crime? I’m going to swipe from Wikipedia here, so don’t hate me too much. According to Wiki:
Alright, so immediately throwing out murder and injury (good luck with that over the Internet), what of assault? Well physical assault is obviously ruled out, unless you count our minor alteration of photons hitting your eyes, but I don’t think we do. Verbal assault…? … Sorry, no. A poll is a number, not a verbal threat. But you know, I don’t really want to stop there. I want to give this every chance it can, and I’m going to fiddle around with intent. Was it our intent to inflict personal harm or insult the subset of the vox populi known as Glen Becks readership? … Actually, no! Of course, many of us don’t mind much if they get upset, but I think it’s abundantly clear that our intent was to demonstrate that Internet polls are not a valid statistical measuring device.
So there is absolutely no merit to the argument whatsoever.
One of my favorite pieces of doublethink is the simultaneous beliefs that Christians are a majority of the citizens in the U.S., while also being oppressed. Can someone tell me how one can have an oppressed majority in a representative democracy?
raven #199:
Fixed. The difference between a non-fundie and a fundie is that non-fundies turn the hypocrisy to 9001 where the fundies are content to leave it at 11.
And an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope. Wait.
Their FOUR main sacraments are hate, lies.. among their sacraments are…
…
I’ll come in again.
I didn’t expect the Spanish Inquisition. But then, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. And those who do expect …
Hey, where did this soft cushion come from?
The cumfy chair.
The oppression part is easy—just oppress yourself and Bob’s your uncle. You gots to make sure you’re always the majority, though. That way, you can be persecuted, and become a martyr, and go to heaven so you can strum a harp and give YHWH a rimjob for eternity, without being inconvenienced in any way, shape, or form.
No!!!!!!!! NOT – the comfy chair!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s not like the stick up his ass is comfortable, after all.
Glen Davidson
You know, this stuck with me more than I thought it would. I’m not entirely certain why. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I (like a great many people) came from “the real world”. I came from blue collar families who toiled with their hands. My father was a trucker, my father’s father was a trucker, my father’s brothers are truckers, my cousins are truckers, and plumbers, and military men and women. My mother’s a secretary, her father was a steel plant worker and a veteran of the navy. I myself have worked blue collar jobs, as a tank wipe, a delivery man (delivering propane and propane accessories, no less), a trailer lumper, a line cook, and as a CSR, earning coin in exchange for my arms and my back and my sanity.
These are the activities of “the real people” in “the real world”.
My mother, like her parents before her, is Roman Catholic. My father, like his parents, is “stay out of my business and I’ll stay out of yours”-ic. I’m a none-ic, an atheist. These are what these “real people” in “the real world” worship.
My parents worked extra hours, pinched every penny, and even sacrificed their bodies so that they could give themselves and their kids a half decent standard of living outside of the truck or the office, and so that they could give their children options they themselves never had. They’ve helped my siblings and I get an education, they’ve helped us travel the country and the world, and they’ve helped us pursue our dreams. They sacrificed some of their own comforts so that we would never have to make a living with our bodies if we didn’t want to. They even dug deep and found some extra money to help me return to school after graduating with less than stellar marks, allowing me to improve my transcript and get into graduate school.
I, and almost every single person here, or anywhere, in academia or otherwise, are real people who live in the real world, and we come from real people who live in the real world. There is no ivory tower, there is no golden gate, and there is no forgetting from where, and from whom, we have come. Your comments, Jack (not that you’ll actually bother to read this thread, or this post, or the other comments), are a slap in the face. I don’t know who the fuck you think you are, Jack, but I guarantee you that you could never live up to that image you have of yourself. The fact that you would deride the personal efforts of someone who chose to do what they like and do it well enough to make it their livelihood – whether that person be Dr. Myers, myself, or anybody else who reads this blog, or those who don’t, it really doesn’t matter since to attempt to degrade one person for this is to degrade them all – and those who cared enough to toil and sacrifice to help them in their lives makes you worse than slime. You, and those who feel and think like you, Jack, are a pestilence.
Don’t you dare think, even for a second, Jack, that you’re somehow more “real” of a person than I, or Dr. Myers, or anybody, especially because you embrace being stupid. It doesn’t matter how many times you comfort yourself with that lie, and it doesn’t matter how many times the lunatic crackpots like Glenn Beck tell you that it’s so, it remains a falsehood. You are not a better person for letting your brain rot out of your skull, and you certainly are not better than anybody else for it.
If that notion ever does dawn on you, don’t ever forget it. You’ll be much less of a fuckface thereafter.
There, I feel better now. Carry on.
Kichae, bravo. Very well said.
These folks have a severely warped view of academia and just how much effort it often takes to get there. They’ve dehumanized it, which just makes it easier for them to hate. Just more layers added onto their bigotry.
This is probably the same bunch of idiots who think the 2008 election got “hijacked.” When the results of any sort of voting doesn’t go their way, that’s the only option that makes sense to them–no majority could honestly disagree with their “principles,” therefore all those opposing votes must be somehow not legitimate. It’s another case of “principles” colliding with reality, and reality must give way. So we must have broken some law or other by voting, just like ACORN stole the election for Obama.
As for this recurring “real people” crap…in 2008, I voted the straight democratic ticket all the way up and down the ballot. I had never done this before (we have a history of real, actual liberal and moderate republicans here in Oregon), but after Sarah Palin went out to Dinkbutt, West Virginia, population 17, and called them “the real Americans,” I decided 20 years of Republicans telling me I wasn’t really an American was enough.
This idea that people should be punished, legally or physically, for not voting the conservative line is about as un-American a concept as I can imagine. In the mid-90’s the new republican congress wanted to punish one of my senators (Mark Hatfield, republican) for voting against the balanced budget amendment. Now they’ve extended this nonsense to internet polls. You only have the right to vote if you vote right, I guess.
Gah. I probably voted for the wrong Elvis stamp as well.
Rant over. Thank you and good night.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge,
Is that a VMR, if you know what I mean and I think you do?! ;)
Cthulhu this is stupid. IIRC, PZ Myers comes from a blue collar family from a modest Seattle suburb and went to church as a child. He has three grown children, one of whom is an army officer.
Hey idiot!!! We are the real people of the USA. 22% of the US population, 68 million people are No Religions, the third largest sect if they were a sect.
About 70% of the US population will attend college. For those 70%, college isn’t some scary alien environment peopled with monsters, demons, and intelligent people. It’s where young people go to learn things, get training for a career, and have varying amounts of fun.
So the Beckian kook has never been to college or probably even seen one. He lives in a weird mental bubble where Glenn Beck seems sane and makes sense and worships a fundie Sky Monster god.
Someone needs to get out and see the real world and it isn’t us. Have your mom and babysitter let you out of the basement and take you somewhere.
70% of the US population will attend college.
Right there, that makes the dumb troll a minority of the population.
Most people realize US preeminence depends heavily on the universities. 30 of the top 40 research universities in the world are in the USA.
That makes him even more of a minority.
Only 1% of the population are right wing extremist Mormons like Glenn Beck.
This puts dumb troll into a category of less than 1% of the US population. An ignorant idiot who thinks a crazy Mormon fascist makes sense.
Whoever the real Americans are, he isn’t one of them.
IIAL (I am a lawyer (and a psychologist, fwiw)) and I’m pretty damn sure that launching a DDOS attack is not the same as pointing out that a wingnut is conducting a public poll over on wingnut website. Even if one does it on a widely read atheist blog.
Stop using words that are too big for you, cupcake.
Sadly, if the Beckian kook is to be believed, they have a bachelor of music degree, which suggests they’re part of the 70%.
Evidently it was OK for them to be a part of the academic machine – they’re still a real person – but not their professors, and your professors, and my professors, and Dr. Myers in particular.
It’s one thing to go to school. It’s something entirely different to actually learn something while there.
IADAL (I am dating a lawyer) which I believe gives me the authority to say: Mattir is right.
…Much less decide that the learning of things while in school was valuable enough to warrant becoming a professor oneself.
I consider it a comma mistake instead. “You, professor, you are a FUCKING scumbag […]” – I think that’s what was intended.
One of my close relatives is a Glann Buck fan. I guess that relative could be a DM fan, which would be way worse, perhaps. Or would it?
Kichae @ 214:
Bravo! That was surely heartfelt, and worthy of a Molly. (In my completely unrepresentative opinion)
Hey dude,
your new pharyngula site is sponsored by the Restored Church of God!!! Are you turning religious?
KIchae @ #214 – bravo!!! Molly-worthy. Yes, indeed. You spoke for many of us!!
IKAL (I Know A Lawyer). Voting on an open internet poll is legal. Whining that the poll results don’t go the way you want is also legal. Having an opinion that differs from Glen Beck’s is legal. Coming to a blog to whine about how some people don’t agree with Glen Beck is legal. Having your whines about polls and Beck shown to be stupid is also legal.
Isn’t freedom of speech wonderful?
Wisconsin? Wisconsin? ttch, you do realise that some of us live in, like other countries and don’t actually know exactly where Wisconsin is, or care about what its regional laws may or may not say?
This internet dooverlacky is kind of international, sunshine.
I’m sure Wisconsin is a lovely place, however, and apologies to any Wisconsonites I may have offended.
Well, you’d have to ask PZ if he was in his office during working hours when he posted his opinion. If he wasn’t, then your argument is moot.
And in addition to my point of #232, if PZ’s university supports or has a policy of allowing their academics (or staff generally) to engage in free speech using university resources, then he is contributing to free and open public discourse, which is not a bad thing. You would need to address the university if you wanted to stop this — good luck with your First Amendment argument.
Rich Woods #233
PZ has said he doesn’t use university facilities for this blog.
@’Tis #234:
Which kicks Jack’s initial complaint into touch.
Thanks for the clarification.
patrick@31
Wisconsin is just to the left of Minnesota(where PZ is).
They make cheese there.
and beer.
Our tax dollars pay the “educational elite”. It’s not welfare. It’s not “support”. “Educating”, even when you put it in quotes, is a job. Dispelling miseducation is an appropriate part of that task.
Depends on how you hold the map, of course, but Wisconsin would be to the right (East) of Minnesota the way most people hold their maps, with North at the top.
Glen Davidson
Glen – What is this quaint “Map” thing that you “hold”?
Doesn’t one just google it?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wisconsin
I meant my other left :)
That’s awfully borealcentrist of you, Glen.
If you go to the full article, there appears to be a typo or misrepresentation of PZ Myers.
I’m pretty sure that “evolution” should be replaced with “creation.”
Now now guys, you should know very well that PZ’s teachable moment about online polls is clearly a hate crime to creationists because he tried to “make them think”. It’s practically torture.
..and it’s probably communist too!
PZ’s university likes his blog and supports his right to say whatever he damn well pleases. He does not use university equipment to host it and he schedules posts in advance so that they appear throughout the day. I believe I read that they gave him some extra time or work credit for a science outreach function through the blog. They also made him head of the science department last year. I think they like him!
It’s also legal, I suppose, to do what one creationist did rewrite the questions so that the question that appeared to get the most votes was not the one that people had voted for. But it’s damned dishonest!
Rewrite the *answers*. It’s an hour later for me than for the the blog’s servers: I’m going to bed.
We need to keep explaining in terms they understand: It’s not hatred that they are getting from us! It’s the bemused contempt of someone watching the natives dance around their bonfire and howl to Mumbo Jumbo the God of the Congo.
The undertones of that comparison should keep them simmering for days.
So, has anyone reported ttch to the police yet for hijacking this thread and posting opinions contrary to the blog owner’s?