That quack, Christopher Maloney, has written to me now…with a nice little edge of hysteria and paranoia.
Let the witch trials begin! Michael Hawkins and Rev. Myers presiding
Dear “Reverend” PZ Meyers,
How fitting that, three hundred years later, the witch trials continue. If you recall, it was the herbalists that were burned then as well. Your flock has spoken to me, Reverend Meyers, with the shrieking common to all fundamentalist cults. I believe if you check you will find that fundamentalism involves a closed mind while doing science requires an open mind. It also involves a thing they call research.
Do you do basic research into a person’s claims before posting? Did you perhaps go to medline and type the words “elderberry” and “H1N1”? Did you even bother to read my original editorial that cites Cochrane database and CDC raw data? If you had done basic research or contacted me directly you would perhaps not have posted lies in your blog.
u can call me an idiot and a quack, but when you repeat the “fact” that I am not a doctor and not qualified, that is a written lie or libel. I am a doctor under Maine state law and meet the qualifications of that title.
In terms of poor maligned elderberry, the medline citation is “The H1N1 inhibition activities of the elderberry flavonoids compare favorably to the known anti-influenza activities of Oseltamivir (Tamiflu; 0.32 microM) and Amantadine (27 microM). (Phytochemistry. 2009 Jul;70(10):1255-61) While this is a test tube study only, please keep in mind that we had no vaccine and were at the peak of the pandemic here in Maine. I never suggested elderberry as a vaccination but as a possible home treatment for sick children.
Michael Hawkins is an undergraduate at UMA who replied to my editorial. His rambling editorial was not based on science or research, but his need to publicize himself. After failing to get an editorial published against God he decided I was, flatteringly, next on the list. All of the research and medline citations for my editorial are available under swine flu on my website, and were there for Mr. Hawkins to simply see. But, despite the reality that I practice evidence-based medicine, neither you nor Mr. Hawkins have ever bothered to read my site.
Mr. Hawkins managed to get his own website suspended by arguing with his server about what constitutes libel and blames me. I have never directly contacted WordPress about him and I have never replied to either his hate posts or his email attacks on me personally. In doing my own research, I found that another individual is in the process of filing a lawsuit against Mr. Hawkins and requested that the individual write to Mr. Hawkins directly. It was this other individual in South Carolina, and not me, that helped Mr. Hawkins get himself kicked off. Since Mr. Hawkins has received that email today, I believe that your case against me as an enemy of free speech should be re-examined.
It terms of his accusations against me that you have posted on your blog, I have taken the time to answer them at length and with scientific citations on my website: www.maloneymedical.com. I am also in the process of creating a more tolerable Youtube video for your flock.
Thank you, Reverend Myers, for burning me without trial. It’s nice to know some things never change.
Christopher Maloney, N.D.
Whoa…these danged evil witches. You burn them and burn them, and they still manage to crawl up out of the ashes and find a computer keyboard. Amazing powers of recuperation, those witches.
As for this witch’s bogus claims about elderberry and garlic, see Steve Novella’s article on the subject. You simply do not leap from a tentative basic research finding to making therapeutic recommendations. Unless you’re a quack, of course. Quacks do that all the time.
The plot thickens. Maloney denies getting Hawkins’ site shut down, which may be true. However, at the very least, Maloney was used as a pretext to shut down the blog. WordPress sent Hawkins email demanding changes to his posts, specifically this one:
Hi,
You wrote:
“I cannot overstate this fact: Naturopaths are not doctors and they are not
qualified. They cherry-pick evidence, often lie and misrepresent facts.
Recently, a local naturopathic “doctor,” Christopher Maloney, wrote a letter
in which he committed himself to that third possibility”
“Maloney is NOT a doctor! He has NO qualifications which earn him that title.”
We were sent:
Dr Maloney is a licensed Maine State Doctor, license number ND240. He is
recognized under Maine state law: Title 32: PROFESSIONS AND OCCUPATIONS
Chapter 113-B: COMPLEMENTARY HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS HEADING: PL 1995, C. 671,
§13 (NEW) Subchapter 3: NATUROPATHIC MEDICINE LICENSING REQUIREMENTS AND
SCOPE OF PRACTICE HEADING: PL 1995, C. 671, ¶13.
Please edit your statements to include his qualifications or delete your statements.
Thank you.
–
Mark
Note the comment from Mark at WordPress, “We were sent”. Someone targeted Hawkins, and sent a demand to WordPress to shut him down. This is someone in communication with Maloney, because Maloney just sent me this email:
Dear Prof. Myers,
The following is an excerpt from an email I received from the fellow in South Carolina. I will not reveal his name because I would not wish your unrighteous wrath on a dog, much less a fellow human being. But he has sent this message directly to Mr. Hawkins, who I am sure will be glad to redirect you.
Please call off your flock.
“This is what I wrote to him.
Michael Hawkins,
You may blame me for having your blog pulled. WorldPress had to remove your blog because otherwise it would have faced a hefty lawsuit, given the nature of the defamation campaign you had launched against me, and having positioned your blog link second place on Google search. …”
Now I’m wondering…who is the cowardly quack in South Carolina who used Maloney’s name to get a blog pulled?
I’m also wondering why WordPress would yank the blog on the word of a third party who has no standing in this specific argument at all?
Maybe Dr. Baloney was reading something by Don Novello and thought Don was a scientist as well as a priest.
Dear Dr. Maloney,
Feel free to sue anyone for defamation who calls naturopathy quackery. That may be the only way people who are committed to reality will be able to get Maine to change its foolish law that allows people to claim to be trained in medicine when their training is not based on scientific principles.
Don’t worry, you can always change your discipline to religion. They get to make any claim they want and no one ever questions them.
Ha, the very fact that IDiots and quacks are burned at the stake and live again disproves the evilutionists.
With our efficient means for, and willingness to, persecute and destroy such people, they should have long ago gone extinct. The grace of god and elderberries alone can account for the fact that they live again.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
Still sounds like a duck to me.
Michael Hawkins made himself look kind of dumb at Zuska’s last month. But that doesn’t validate any of Maloney’s rubbish.
Whoa…these danged evil witches. You burn them and burn them, and they still manage to crawl up out of the ashes and find a computer keyboard. Amazing powers of recuperation, those witches.
It must be their herbs.
@Free Lunch, #2
If he sues for libel in England, he’ll probably win.
Bunkie wins with the Python ref.
One of my colleagues was delighted to announce to our math department that one of her students had gone on to become a doctor. Okay, good. But then she said that she had taught algebra to the student in question only the year before.
“How,” I asked, “could your student go from taking algebra to earning a medical degree only one year later?”
“Oh,” burbled my colleague with unabated enthusiasm, “she is a naturopathic doctor.”
“Okay,” I said. “Now I understand. She’s not really a medical doctor at all.”
My colleague was then slightly deflated and told me I was being unduly critical.
Nope. A fake doctor is a fake doctor.
Wait, this clown gets Word Press to censor a critic’s blog and P. Z. is the one on a “witch hunt?”
Christopher Maloney isn’t just a quack, he’s fucking hypocritical pile of shit!
Somebody call the waaambulance!
Apparently, “being called a quack on the internet” = “being burned alive”. Who knew?
And Steve Novella’s article is a wonderful reply.
The only thing in question here is whether or not quack Christopher Maloney contacted WordPress or not. And if I have to choose between a cherry-picking, truth-distorting, snake-oil salesman and a student running a blog about science, I’m going with the student.
“Reverend”, huh?
That his invention, or is this a new sighting of an old insult?
“Don’t worry, you can always change your discipline to religion. They get to make any claim they want and no one ever questions them.”
He’s certainly got the persecution complex thing going.
Dear Reverend Myers,
Your minions have forced me to shut down my Youtube site, but I presume that censorship is only a problem when you don’t approve the censorship. Typical fundamentalist, evangelical, I’m with God so I’m always right thinking. How is God these days? The guy in your head that says it’s ok to set a mob on people who have never harmed you and to take one person’s accusations as the truth without examining them yourself. It must be great to be God.
If you are interested in the truth, rather than in trashing people, I have proof that I did not cause Mr. Hawkins to go off the air. But I forget, you have spoken, and Myers forbid that you might have acted hastily.
Christopher Maloney, N.D.
I know nothing of “Naturopathy” as a discipline, but at least herbal medicines have the possibility of a plausible (and, in principle, demonstrable) mechanism of action. In my view that puts herbal medicine a notch or two above completely bugfuck crazy shit like homeopathy and reiki and the like.
How is you shutting down your site censorship?
…which of course doesn’t say anything about any particular practitioner, who may or may not be bugfuck crazy nuts.
btw, I recently ran across this useful equivalence chart:
This guy completely misses the point.
We are not against “alternative medicine”, and we do not empirically claim that natural medicines do not work. To do so is ridiculous; there are hundreds of known natural cures for ails.
What we ARE against, however, are these bizarre “Everything-synthetically-made-is-evil”, “Vaccines-are-evil”, “The-scientific-community-is-censoring-alternative-medicine”, and “alternative-medicine-always-works” mindsets. Rational, skeptical inquiry should be applied to all aspects of medicine.
Vaccines have, for the most part, passed such a test of skeptical inquiry. They have been tested and utilized with success in more good scientific studies than this “Baloney” guy can count.
Neo-Alternative medicines have not been tested with such success.
We are for the use of the scientific community and peer-reviewed process to properly test all medicinal products: That is all. Scaremongering, and spreading vicious lies about vaccines, which have saved far more lives than any medical advance in the history of humanity, is not only wrong, but outright evil.
BACON- Pharyngulistas
Like the Engerizer BunnyTM, he just keeps on quacking. Qwack. Qvack. Quack.
Shhh… He’s on a roll. I think he thinks PZ speaks to God.
Don’t worry, Chris. We’ll always have Paris.
… is #14 real?
Here’s the point, once an “alternative” medicine is shown to work is it no longer alternative. It is just Medicine.
The reason people like to tag that name on is because it gives it a mystical natural hokus pokus feeling and also makes people think this stuff works.
Usually though this stuff is untested, unregulated and can be dangerous or just worthless. If they think it works, subject it to the rigors of an actual study. Not just
“Ancient Chinese Secret says…”
If I’m god, I want my tithes. And my burnt offerings…well, not burnt. Medium well. On a platter, with a little garnish, and some nice sides. And don’t spill those libations on the floor, put them in a cup and serve them to me properly.
If he’s confused and actually thinks I believe there is a god talking to me, well, then, he clearly hasn’t done his homework.
Think so. Check out the other thread. Very similar to the other posts.
What do you mean “if”?
Fine, let him practice his alternative to medicine in England then — if they let him. I see no reason that I as an American have to accept his claim that he is a doctor just because the Maine legislature was bamboozled.
I’m so resisting a Monty Python elderberry joke here.
Christopher Maloney, No Doctor, wrote:
“Your minions have forced me to shut down my Youtube site, but I presume that censorship is only a problem when you don’t approve the censorship.”
How did we force you to shut down your Youtube site?
OMG! I’m a white male Christian; how dare you prosecute us minorities?
This mindset is easily cured. When preparing meals for a flake who believes this be sure to use only naturally-grown Amanitas in stews, soups, or salads. For best results, their last sight should be of you eating a TV dinner.
The crazy, it burns…to coin a phrase.
Or perhaps I should say, if it ducks like a quack, it’s probably a quack.
Ah, the old in vitro tests. Based on in vitro tests, cancer should be an easy disease to treat. In vivo testing is a different story, since a lot of things happen to make the drugs inactive.
“It must be great to be God. ”
Yes, yes it is.
Materialist Big Pharma shill. So, to your limited way of thinking, A causes B only if there’s an actual causal relationship between A and B?
You know, the mind is like a parachute: it only works when it’s open, Stalinist.
It really doesn’t help one’s defence when accused of being a quack when responding in such a quack manner. Playing the persecution card as well as decrying the objections as religious – damn that’s apologetics 101.
What a quack!
That letter is too long. I can fix it though.
It should read.
Dear “Reverend” PZ Meyers,
Quack. Quack, quack, quacking quack. poor me. Quack. Quacking. Missed point. Quacking the quack. Lack of evidence. Quack.
And another thing, quack.
Yours quacking,
Christopher Maloney, N.D. (Not a Doctor).
There. Much shorter and to the point.
Heaven
Dear Prof. Myers,
I think you and your minions miss the point. You still haven’t bothered to look at my website, where I have literally hundreds of medline citations. Did it ever occur to any of you that I practice evidence’ based medicine? Has anyone on this comments page even looked at my website or are you simply Myers court of yes people?
And the major issue is that Prof. Myers acted as judge, jury and executioner when it comes to having hundreds of “Myerheads” continue to attack me. You may not believe in God, but you, Prof. Myers, are acting like one. A bad one. Call off the attack.
Please.
Chris Maloney
It’s funny enough that he refers to you as “reverend,” but what really slay me was how he slipped a “u” in there as a substitute for “you.” You must have really rattled him and left him with hands shaking from anger.
Maloney,
I’d like for you to explain how you shutting down your you tube site is censorship.
Yeah, but I can tell the difference between an open mind and one that fell out, all the best.
Apologize for what you did to Paris!
Shouldn’t that be
Call off the aQUACK
Yo, quacker.
Probably one of the first things needed to get people to ease off of you is to get that blog reinstated and apologize. If you practiced evidence based as you claim, then you can counter with facts, not getting a blog shut down.
Dear Quack,
why your darling citations are basically worthless in terms of backing up your claims has been taken on multiple times now, in the comments at the initial article and in Steve Novellas blog – go there already!
Also, I smell some burning goats. The quack is burning offerings to great peezed all by himself.
Even if Prof. Myers issued a command, as you seem to think, when he stated in his original quack-you post,
I know of no regular here who would do something simply because he said to do something.
You’re not confronted with one master and many apprentices. You’re confronted with many individuals who individually think you’re a quack.
Chris,
You seem to be confused here. Professor Myers isn’t a commander who can turn things on and off. He points out foolishness to those who care about such things. We are free to look at it or not as we choose. We are competent to critique it based on evidence.
You have chosen to ally yourself with a group that does not have a reliable history of commitment to science. Just as there may be highly competent physiotherapists among chiropractors, so there may be competent medical advice to be found from some who never went to a science-oriented medical school. Nothing is stopping naturopathy from going toward science. Both doctors and osteopaths have gone from an “art”-oriented training to a science-oriented training. Naturopathy could easily do that. It has not, not yet. I can’t really see how homeopathy could ever find its way to science.
If you are lucky, Orac will continue to stay distracted by Andrew Wakefield’s fabulous melt-down because of his professional self-delusion and fraud and not turn his wit on you as well.
Totally offtopic: Livejournal works like a charm. Typepad can go fuck itself.
OK, gang, which one of you is hanging around outside Maloney’s house, beating him up, and setting him on fire? Stop it. Stop it right now.
OK, attack called off.
Oh, and I did look at Maloney’s site before I posted anything about him. It’s full of glib nonsense, much like that elderberry concoction crap — look, you can find medline citations for all kinds of garbage, like TCM and acupuncture and iridology and feng shui and astrology. The fact that something got published somewhere and indexed on medline does not mean it is necessarily valid.
PZ? It’s Maine. I’m sure the fire is appreciated.
My bad
And it’s spreading across the tubes!
http://www.youtube.com/user/smarterthanyoulook
Once his denial of contacting WordPress was issued, I added that in the annotations.
I don’t want to crucify him. Let his own claim of the elderberrys “BLOCK”ing H1N1 do that for him. :)
PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!11!!!!!!!!1
I don’t know whether he is a pure quack, a partial quack or perhaps even a legitimate medical practitioner. All I know is that I went to YouTube and found that, in his video, he had already set himself on fire so for him to lay a charge of witch burning at PZ(PBUH)‘s feet is odd to say the least.
Dear Prof. Myers,
I think you and your minions miss the point. Quack.
Let me repeat this. Quack a hundred times.
Quack
Chris Maloney, N.D. (Now a Duck)
P.S. I can cite 9000 references. Granted some if not all of my references either don’t support what I am saying, or are complete bullsh#t. But I can site 9001 references. That’s a big number.
But I can site 9001 references.
No, that’s ISO 9001, the ISO quality framework. It only seems like it needs 9001 references to show that you’re doing it right.
Where are they? ;-)
Young women were accused of having powers they couldn’t possibly have, and were subsequently tortured and killed? Are you saying that you’re expecting some kind of Spanish Inquisition to be knocking down your door? Impossible!
Ahhh, the catch cry of close minded. Such a part of any quack comment. Does the evidence clearly show a link between A & B? If so, I’ll change my mind on the matter. But if there’s little more than a tentative correlation, then not accepting it is the only possible thing. Beliefs can change, and a sceptic should always proportion their belief by the amount of evidence. Otherwise it’s just being credulous.
Would you qualify as a doctor elsewhere? Because it seems the qualifications here are a bit like Kent Hovind’s Ph.D.
I remember going on a bus ride where the homoeopath sitting beside me called homoeopathy a science, he was convinced that he was following the evidence too.
Quackalicious #38 wrote:
I looked around. Your website doesn’t help your case. There are ‘red flags’ all over the place. You say some reasonable things. That doesn’t mean the dicey stuff gets an automatic free pass, because we’re just so enchanted with the part that makes sense, or with your charm.
Bottom line, you’re a homeopath. Homeopathy is the poster child for quackery — there are no good studies supporting it (plenty of bad ones) and it is scientific nonsense. That’s a double whammy.
You do not practice evidence-based medicine, though you flatter yourself that you do. You do not practice science-based medicine either. Not all studies count equally. You can’t just add them up, and then rest on your “clinical experience” which you’ve “seen for yourself” because you’re “engaging in constant experimentation using the medical literature as a guide and your patient’s bodies as the judge.” That’s not a controlled experiment. It’s a recipe for fooling yourself.
Homeopathy is useful: it’s the canary in the mine shaft. If a doctor is talking about diet and exercise and trying out some herbal tea when you’re having trouble sleeping and yoga is good for stretching muscles and relaxing and it sounds pretty reasonable and then Doc Plausible casually recommends a homeopathic remedy for some reason or other RUN DO NOT WALK because the canary is DEAD! It has gone to meet its maker, and joined the choir invisible.
I think it’s the goats which got his goat.
Oh Maine, you’re making me so sad. First you vote against gay marriage and now one of your residents is displaying additional moronic behavior.
OK, so I went and looked at your website.
Yup, you peddle woo, smarmy woo at that.
Get in the fookin’ sack!
Reading Maloney’s defense of his recommendations on Dr. Novella’s blog, claiming that ‘children were dying’, I sensed a fib. I live in Maine, and I hadn’t heard of any children dying from H1N1 here. Maine’s CDC confirms my memory – “All 18 H1N1-related deaths in Maine have been in adults with chronic underlying conditions.”
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=491405655&blogId=525858394
So, he was scaring parents to drum up business for his practice, as well as recommending inadequately tested treatments for children. Medical ethics are not Maloney’s strong suit.
I looked at his site ( the half hour of hilarity was soon surpassed by incredulity then quickly onto abject boredome). What struck me, apart from the glib self-promoting, “I’m brilliant and really really good for you” rubbish was the general sniff of amateurishness about it all.
VERY telling however was the following three snippets
1) the quote about “if you get hit by a bus see an MD, if you feel like you have come see me”. I has posted this previously as funny but the more I think about it, the more telling I find it to be an admission that he’s not a real doctor. You know, if you have a real problem, that involves real medicine- see someone else.
and
2) The bit where he says if you want someone that you can call at 3 am then find another person to treat you. News for you “Doctor”, REAL doctors DO work at 3 am you know, because people actually get sick and hurt at really inconvenient hours sometimes. The fact his clients seem to be able to pick and chose at what times their illness occurs substantially demonstrates they aren’t really sick at all and it’s all just the puffery of a few neurotic hypochondriacs who have more money than sense and he’s the leech that’ll be opportunistic and sponge that money off them.
3) The bit were he admit he’s afraid of needles and blood and he faints at the sight of them renders me speechless.
Dude, you are NOT a doctor ( I don’t give a fuck what Maine says, so you can stop bleating that one), never will be and you seriously need to get over your inferiority complex that somewhere, in your wee brain, you recognise you’re not good enough so compensate for constantly insisting you are.
Christ he reminds me of those wankers that turn up here claiming to be members of MENSA and thinking that’ll imnpress us.
Oh, and I think it wasn’t shut down as much as self-imploded out of sheer embarassment. That your tube video sucked. Badly.
Wow – Maloney is just brimming with stupid. He sounds a lot like Mabus but without the death threats. Anyone want to bet his mother was a hamster and his father smelled of elderberries?
“RUN DO NOT WALK because the canary is DEAD! It has gone to meet its maker, and joined the choir invisible.”
It must be done.
Thanks for your “helpful” comments. For the brainiacs who don’t understand what happens when Myers speaks, here’s how it goes. Every copycat blogger picks up Myer’s words and spreads them around. Hundreds of people with too much time on their hands write to me personally. Hate mail. Not “we’re all scientists” email. We’re talking “I want to burn you like in that video” email, with lots of swear words. Hundreds of them. Crashing your server, blocking any office work. I haven’t even bothered to answer my telephone today. You are not individuals, you are a mob. Some of you may not want me to die personally, but you are all standing around while Prof. Myers watches me burn. I hope you feel amazingly clever. Please feel free to comment further at my expense. And feed the evil God well, lest you be next on his list.
Call them off, Myers. Read your email and realize that every crazy with a cell phone loves you.
“Evil god?” No, no, that’s Elder God. With lots of tentacles. Geesh, get with the program.
quack
@mpatter#7: Same in Australia – it doesn’t matter that the defendant’s claims are true, apparently it’s more important that some quack claims to have lost money.
Yawn, the concerned troll is concern. Gee, what next? The sun will set in the west? Hey Quack. Here is your best way out: Shut up with the concern. Go and stay away. The longer you stay, the more fun we have.
If you don’t like being proven to be a quack, stop your fraudulent “medicine”. You are a danger to people, and a disgrace to medicine, science, reason, and humanity.
Mr. Maloney’s site has the following introduction:
“When I was ill, I went looking for a doctor.
I could not find anyone who did what I wanted.
So I have worked to become the doctor I wanted to find.”
Of course he couldn’t find a doctor who did what he wanted. They were doing medicine!
Next he’ll be dmanding an apology and a camera.
Quackalicious @ 68
Thank you for that posting that comment…it’s the funniest shit I have read in a long time.
#68 So you’re suggesting that you can’t get any quackery done because of PZ’s posting?
Who knew that one blog post could do so much medical good.
Christopher, you credulous fucking loon, you don’t get it. You are a fraud, and a paranoid fraud at that. You promote quackery and either can’t or won’t acknowledge that you make a living off bilking the gullible. Frankly, you deserve to have your career asploded, and I have no sympathy for your plight.
Now fuck off and get a real job.
You know what else kills H1N1 in a test tube? Bleach.
That’s why we do clinical studies (and why we don’t recommend an agent as a remedy until we have).
Now either PZed has a much much larger fan base than I realised, or the teabaggers are still communicating by carrier pigeon.
Yes, Reverend Myers. Have you Googled elderberry and H1N1? If you had, you would have found that the company selling the elderberry extract has proven that test tubes cannot be infected by H1N1!
Yup, but that hypothesis failed empirical testing.
So what? Do these citations prove you didn’t try to suppress a blogger’s opinion about you that you didn’t like by whining (directly or indirectly) to his host? Anyone can list a bunch of citations on their website. This doesn’t translate into evidence-based reasoning or evidence-based medical practice.
Off topic, but check this out: Dublin theater throws spotlight on priestly sins @
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100218/lf_nm_life/us_ireland_abbey
You’re just being close-minded! ;)
Dr. Maloney,
This. Is. Pharyngulaaaaaaaa!
Michael Hawkins’ article was as much about preventing the quacks in Canada (specifically, Ontario) from being allowed to call themselves doctors. I wrote a blog post about this in response. One thing I’d like to draw attention to is the policy of the Canadian Council of Naturopathic Examiners which states that “Practitioners must be licensed, required to take continuing education, and subject to peer review.” (emphasis mine)
This clearly stated commitment to peer review interests me. I’m not familliar with the Maine equivalent of this organization, but do they have similar directions to engage in peer review? Do they publish a methodology for engaging in this evidence-based altmed of yours?
If you folks don’t behave like scientists, we’re not going to treat you like scientists. If you don’t behave like doctors, we’re not going to treat you like doctors. If you behave like spoiled children, we will treat you like spoiled children, and that is why you have been spanked.
Quackalicious #68 wrote:
So your entire office shuts down when you get a couple hundred email? I used to be on several very active listservs, and pretty much got that amount every day.
I doubt that every single email advocated violence (those that did, were indeed very wrong to do so.) Though you’re probably right that none of them took the “we’re all scientists” perspective. There’s a reason they didn’t.
I’m an agnostic right now on whether you had Hawkins’ account shut down. And I agree that there’s no excuse for threats of violence. But it’s just not a wise idea to get on the high horse about integrity and being ‘evidence-based’ when you’re advocating unscientific modalities like homeopathy. It leaves you wide open to teasing. Though I admit, it’s probably unnecessary to send you emails.
You’re having too much fun throwing yourself at the blogs. Remember, as I think Sagan once said, to compare yourself to Galileo it’s not enough to be persecuted: you also have to be right.
Be treated unkindly is not evidence that alternative medicine works, or should be given a “chance.”
“u can call me an idiot and a quack, but when you repeat the “fact” that I am not a doctor and not qualified, that is a written lie or libel. I am a doctor under Maine state law and meet the qualifications of that title.”
Wait, Maine lets people who aren’t doctors call themselves doctors? How bizarre.
Hmmm, interesting. I’m unable to explain the relationship between Higgs boson and MSSM. But I have about 75 articles on my hard drive. Am I a physicist and can I claim knowledge and expertise ?
See my addendum to the post up above. I suspect Maloney was a pawn used by the Mysterious Quack in South Carolina to shut down the blog.
Somebody should find the name and url of that quack and send it to me. I have mad dogs to feed, and now they’re accustomed to the taste of quacking duck flesh.
PZ? I think we need to create an award for these folks who come here to defend themselves but really only manage to dig themselves into a deeper hole.
I suppose we could call it the Tin Shovel Award.
But look! He has learned how to spell my name!
it thinks itself a doctor, and thinks that it actually helps people.
/ i’m not worried about swine flu, because i’m a helicopter.
Give him a quacker.
Just make sure it isn’t a god first.
I imagine an actual doctor would use ‘you’. So much for that vaunted professionalism, Dr. Baloney. You are a quack.
Does the Maine legislation actually confer the title of Doctor upon him, OR does it classify him merely as am alternative-health practitioner. He has neither an MD nor a PhD, right?
So is he actually a doctor, even by Maine’s accounting?
you know what else? Fire.
Whether you chose you apply that fire via a burning goat is your choice.
Well, shit. I’d been considering coastal Maine as a good location for a hermitage, but between the anti-gay fuckwittery and dipshits like this guy, I don’t know if they deserve my specialized brand of hostile misanthropy. Assholes. I was looking forward to the lobster.
Q.D. @ 14:
No, no one forced you to do anything. You’re really stretching that persecution card. I think you meant “I can’t handle the comments! Waaah!”
This post has only garnered 91 comments so far, but you’re being peppered with “hundreds” of emails? So there are people who aren’t bothering to leave a comment here, but are going through the trouble of finding your email address and sending you a personal message? And that people might even want to actually call you?
I’m unconvinced.
However, it is interesting to hear the sound of a duck squealing.
Dear Quackalicious,
I am sorry for making fun of you. Now that I know you are a real person with real feelings, and not a duck with fake duck feelings, I do not feel clever at pointing out your insecurity, as demonstrated by how much you boast about how may articles you have cited and by your claims that you have had more classroom hours than real doctors, and your lack of medical knowledge, as demonstrated by your profession. I am truly sorry.
To make up for it, I would like to offer some advice. You are saying that the mob is preventing you from doing any office work today. There is a simply solution. Take any office work you did yesterday, and then stretch it over a week. Now take the work done on each of those days and stretch each day’s work into a week’s worth of work. After ten times, and you will have found out that yesterday, you did the 776,000 years worth of work. After doing so much work, don’t you feel like a vacation? Why not, you definitely earned it with all the time spent in the class room and all the time looking up citations. Go to Hawaii, or travel around the world for the next 776,000 years. I’m sure that those true quacks with all of their fancy-dancy medical degrees and evidence-based medicine will cover for you.
Yours truely
A.N.D.Y. (Also Not a Doctor, Yet.)
From here:
According to what I read earlier, in order to be a licensed naturopathic doctor in the state of Maine, one needs to hold a PhD from one of five accredited schools of naturopathic medicine. I have no idea if that means anything or not.
He has neither an MD nor a PhD, right?
He hasn’t claimed to have one. He has an N.D. That’s at least as valuable to me as a D.C.
Again, sorry.
My bad.
Like, say…. Hogwarts?
I daresay that if one took “a gallon of elderberry wine, [add] one teaspoonful of arsenic, then add half a teaspoonful of strychnine, and then just a pinch of cyanide,” that would kill the H1N1 that was inhabiting a host as well, just after it killed the host.
Science does require a open mind, but not an empty one.
I’m still new here so could someone tell me how Rev. Mayerz exercises his mind-control powers? Telepathy? Automatic writing? I didn’t get the message to persecute the quack.
Caine @ #95:
This aspiring doc sez: I can has as much intertoobs-slang as I like.
Dr.(sic) Maloney posted on Neurologica the following:
In the email PZ quotes in his addendum above, we have
So, were there two people Mr. Hawkins supposedly defamed? Or is the South Carolina emailer a sockpuppet of Dr.(sic) Maloney? If these were two people, why would the second person be interested have and provide only info about Dr.(sic) Maloney’s licensure? Something isn’t fitting here.
It’s a potion… you’ll receive yours in the mail shortly (it comes in a quaint little vile that looks like a tentacle… tastes like absolute shit!)…
I can’t divulge the formula fully… but I can tell you it’s derived from Elderberries…
Keenacat @ 108:
Yes, you can, because you’re aspiring to be a reality-based doctor. ;p
“Under Maine State Law, a Naturopathic Doctor’s scope of practice is:
A naturopathic doctor may use and order for preventative and therapeutic purposes the following natural medicines and therapies: food, food extracts, vitamins, minerals, enzymes, digestive aids, whole gland thyroid and other natural hormones, plant substances, all homeopathic preparations, immunizations, counseling, hypnotherapy, biofeedback, dietary therapy, naturopathic manipulative therapy, naturopathic physical medicine, therapeutic devices, barrier devices for contraception and office procedures. Naturopathic doctors may also prescribe medications, including natural antibiotics and topical medicines, within the limitations set forth in subsection 4.”
“Office procedures” – what fresh euphemism is this?
“Did it ever occur to any of you that I practice evidence’ based medicine?”
Of course. Because when I see flaming hands, the very first thing I think of is “evidence-based medicine.”
yahoo…..3f394
You noticed that, too. Looks suspiciously like sockpuppetry to me as well.
ps I recommend you garbled long identifier types sign your posts with something more mnemonic.
Whole gland thyroid? WTF? Are you supposed to fry that thing or what? xD
I could fry myself a thyroid in the morning to substitute for my daily thyroxine pill… Does anybody know if this resembles bacon enough to make for a useful breakfast?
I’ll have you know that Goats are the only approved vector for fire-based wellness therapies. Do not attempt to administer treatment via Whales On Fire or Otters On Fire, and don’t even think about Puppies On Fire or Bacon On Fire.
Puppies on fire is an evidence based treatment for God-loves-you in adult atheists.
Not necessarily a sockpuppet. Could be just a wooist that saw Hawkins blog, was offended that Hawkins was insulting his pet woo, and took matters into his own hands by looking up Maloney’s info and emailing WordPress. Never underestimate insulted superstitious types.
Where can I get on the list of the mad dogs needing to be fed? I am hoping that is pressed almond duck Peking style of course, its much better than bacon.
Here’s the relevent Maine law http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/32/title32sec12522.html
The man is a fucking liar! Right in the law it says under Prohibition: a naturopathic doctor may not “Practice or claim to practice medicine and surgery”. He’s in clear violation of Maine state law by claiming to practice medicine.
“You simply do not leap from a tentative basic research finding to making therapeutic recommendations. Unless you’re a quack, of course. Quacks do that all the time.”
This comment of yours presents an interesting dilemma. I remember decades ago when I started working in health care when the tentative data on the value of aspirin came out. It was probably about 1978 or so. I did a quick poll of numerous doctor friends and found that nearly ALL the internists and cardiologists were now taking an aspirin a day. This was on the basis of tentative data. But they did not officially put their patients on it.
Now, 30+ years later, the data is in and nearly all docs recommend it to most of their patients. You could conclude that some docs lived while some of their patients did not.
Oh no, he’s not. You see, he practices “evidence based” medicine. ::cough, cough::
It’s an entirely different thing. Ayup…
Man, if he claims this much distress over what Pharyungulites have done, imagine if his information was posted on Fark or Digg or 4chan, where the folks are much less likely to be reasonably critical (of course, I imagine in the mind of this lunatic horseshit peddler, any criticism levied against him is not reasonable).
A #98
You will also find that Maine teems with evangelical fundies as well. However, most of them can’t even find much less regurgitate the more polished (read here: moderately challenging therefore mildly interesting if you’re really bored some sunny day) examples of their wooist beliefs.
Uh-oh. If anyone deserves to be farked or 4channed, though, it would have to be Andreas Moritz.
So did anyone else try out that license number? I went to the following website http://www.docboard.org/me/df/mesearch.htm and tried to input ND240 and it didn’t like it. Anyone have any thoughts as to what other Maine State Licensing website I should use?
Christopher Maloney es un charlatan..
why do we should let only the english speaking people have fun…
http://mundo.paralax.com.mx/los-blogs/2010/02/18/8-charlatan.html
BeeWild — This might help you…
Central to all points, calling a waaaambulance for Mr Maloney, code three.
To be fair, he hasn’t identified himself as a “medical doctor”, “physician”, or “surgeon”, which would indeed be illegal. He’s perfectly entitled to call himself Doctor, as is anyone who holds a doctoral degree (in his case, a Doctor of Naturopathy). While the title of “doctor” may suggest medical expertise in the minds of the lay public, particularly when used by a health professional, it isn’t necessarily a title restricted to medical practitioners.
I’m not, of course, denying that this guy – like most “alternative medicine” practitioners – is a fraud, dishonest quack and incompetent blowhard. And we should continue to point this out. But that doesn’t mean he’s breaking the law.
With the exception of certain professions, there is nothing to stop anyone from claiming to be a Doctor in the U.S. It is not like Lawyer or Realtor™. Of course, PZ took pains to note that Maloney has the legal right (if not the moral one) to be called a Doctor. But if truth were an obstacle to that ilk…
There’s a store at my local shopping centre called “Miracle Therapy”. While that may be “just the name of the store”, it’s promising potential medical treatments and thus should be taken as misleading advertising.
If calling yourself a doctor while offering medical treatments is not illegal, then there’s something wrong with the law.
The pic on his website that features him in a white lab coat with stethoscope around his neck would suggest that he at least tries to create an image of himself as a “real doctor”, IMO.What other purpose would it have, given he as a naturopath is the exact opposite of a real scientist/doctor using real medicine, and has no f’ing clue as to what to do with a stethoscope in the first place ?
Thanks #128! Though “Board of Complementary Health Care Providers” certified is just a little bit different than Maine State Doctor certified and he didn’t even use the correct license number. Am I being nitpicky here?
This mindset is easily cured. When preparing meals for a flake who believes this be sure to use only naturally-grown Amanitas in stews, soups, or salads.
Well, not all of them are deadly; some of them are unlikely to kill you, but are hallucinogenic. To take a P. J. O’Rourke quote out of context: You might misjudge the dosage and merely have a good time.
He is, technically, a “doctor”; he holds a “doctorate” in naturopathy. (This qualification may well not be worth the paper it’s written on, but from a legal perspective, that’s irrelevant.) He is not a doctor of medicine or a qualified physician, but that doesn’t stop him being a doctor.
Yes, in this instance he is clearly intending to abuse the word “doctor” to defraud and fool people. But what he’s doing isn’t technically illegal, and there would be no watertight way of making it illegal, unless you want to stop the holders of all non-medical academic doctorates from calling themselves “Doctor”.
Walton, I’m going to be nice and assume that you missed this quote from the email that started this thread:
Noadi is absolutely correct, he just made a very public claim that he ‘practiced medicine’. That man is a fucking liar, and he’s done exactly what was claimed. Therefore, he IS breaking the law.
Why are you defending him again?
Now, on to the parts that I wanted to comment on before I saw Walton’s post. Take a look at his quote in post #68. Why is it that I find it very hard to believe a single claim he’s making?
It’s perfectly understandable that he’s not getting ‘We’re all scientists’ email. Why would he? He’s quite obviously NOT a scientist. Duh! And does anyone here really think that he’s getting hundreds (That’s 200 or more) of emails of the ‘I want to burn you’ variety like he’s claiming? (Oh noooo! There are swear words! Get me my fainting couch, quickly!)
Would 200 emails crash his mail server? Oh, I suppose it’s possible, if his computer tech was as much a tech as he is a scientist. He’d have to be getting a lot more than 200 to do that, or to ‘block any office work’ as well. I can get that many spams in a day on some of my older email addresses, and all it takes is a simple mail filter in my email client to make them disappear before I ever see them.
I also don’t see how he can claim to be getting angry phone calls when he admits that he’s not answering his phone, but that’s par for the course with his other answers, isn’t it?
Funny, I don’t see myself trusting a single claim this quack made without solid evidence behind it, judging by how obviously wrong so many of his other claims have been.
Sorry ‘doc’, (or should that be ‘duck’?), but you’re just as much a quack as PZ and all the others think you are, and you’re a liar too.
Rather than ask PZ if he’d read your site, you went right out on a limb and made a claim of fact – that he hadn’t read your site before commenting on you. You were wrong. Your claim that he hadn’t done so is therefore a lie, and now a knowing one. Why have I not seen any attempt on your part to retract any of your false statement(s)?
I know, I know, why start now?
Quack. Quack. QUACK!!
Since Andreas Moritz has taken credit for the misleading claim that took down the website, my question to Christopher Maloney is:
Do you really want to have Andreas Moritz as your ally?
Will you condemn his fraudulent claims?
This is Michael Hawkins. (Apologies for this crappy Google name thing.)
It seems naturopaths are not doctors under Maine law. They are a sort of doctor, but they are required to use certain qualifiers.
2. Title. A licensee must use the title “naturopathic doctor.” Naturopathic doctors have the exclusive right to the use of the terms “naturopathic doctor,” “naturopathic,” “naturopath,” “doctor of naturopathic medicine,” “doctor of naturopathy,” “naturopathic medicine,” “naturopathic health care,” “naturopathy” and the recognized abbreviation “N.D.” Use of the title “physician” by the licensee is prohibited.
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/32/title32sec12521.html
Perhaps I’m next:
“Naturocrit” says many things that should upset the naturo. crowd.
-r.c.
ermine @#137: Sorry, I missed that. Yes, that could be read as a fraudulent claim to be a physician, though I’m not an expert on the specific statutes of Maine.
And I’m not “defending him”. I think he’s a quack, and have said so repeatedly. I have nothing but contempt for alternative medicine.
And there it is.
If Mr. Hawkins had used the correct and precise term “physician” in the first place, some of this silliness could have been avoided.
Maloney is a [type of] “doctor”. Hell, so am I!
But neither of us is a physician, which was the point in the first place.
Walton:
My point, and (I believe) Noadi’s before me, is that the law expressly prohibits:“Practice[ing] or claim[ing] to practice medicine”, yet here we have this quack clearly claiming to ‘practice medicine’, in those very words. “I practice evidence-based medicine” Since ALL real medicine is evidence-based, that tells us nothing – but the rest, that’s a very clear and unmistakable claim, isn’t it?
It’s not a matter of ‘could be read as a fraudulent claim to be a physician’, it IS a fraudulent and *expressly prohibited by law* claim of practicing medicine.
I love the fact that amongst the list he calls “diseases he treats” he includes menopause. Wasn’t aware that was a disease but maybe in wacky naturopath land it is.
One of my co-workers ( a certifiable christian loon) goes to a naturopath instead of a doctor. He fills her head with all sort of crap including the latest gem which is “dairy foods are the cause of breast cancer”. I kid you not, I got a fifteen minute lecture the other day when she saw me eating a yoghurt.
I like the fact one of the greatest puzzles of medical science has been solved by some dipshit with a ten week certificate in herbology or whateverthefuck from the Rockhampton TAFE college. …Take THAT medical science.
PZ,
Could this scumbag species be the elusive crocoduck for which the creobots are so desperately searching?
Just wondering,
plumberbob
Plumberbob:
Nahhh, he’s more of a “Doc o’Duck”, I’d say..
@115
Only if you want to spend the next 2-3 months with a maladjusted thyroid.
Dried thyroid is a quack remedy normally used by people who do not have genuine thyroid dysfunction, but are somehow convinced they do (or by people who think synthroid is the evuul). Sometimes it may make you go hyperthyroid, most times it doesn’t contain any active thyroxin – so that way it doesn’t harm a euthyroid person.
Some might think thyroid hormone variations would make life interesting, but considering that when I’m hypothyroid I go into depression and that a hyperthyroid state can be life-threatening, I think I’ll pass.
Unless the man can write a prescription for a schedule 2 narcotic AND a pharmacy is willing to fill it, he can’t call himself a doctor. Doctors of Osteopathy, as batty as they can get, are still leagues separated from this nutcase in terms of qualifications and expertise.
Hell, by his measure, I could be a pharmacy manager with less than a year’s experience as a tech.
@ ermine,
I’ve a relative who’s an alumna of Univ of Oregon; she was always hurt by the association of incompetents with quacks.
Go Ducks!
plumberbob
What a whiny lame ass excuse for a human being.
Dude, you may be a “doctor,” but so is Orac. The difference is that Orac is a physician and you’re a third-rate con artist.
BTW, it’s not Professor Myers to you, you disingenuous little turd–it’s DOCTOR Myers. That’s what you call someone who has a PhD, not someone who filled out a form on a cereal box, like, oh YOU.
Get it right.
Then DIAF.
I know this thread is mostly dead but I would like to point out to Bride Of Shrek OM #144 that according to the Rules of Sympathetic Magic or possibly Contagious Magic, dairy products could cause breast cancer (milk:boobies).
Unless, of course, dairy products could cure breast cancer.
Magic is kinda tricky.
Anyone else notice that wordpress.com has done something a bit iffy here and seems to have avoided criticism for it?
What kind of weak-ass machinery is this guy using?
I work at a middle-size ISP and one of our oldest servers is a mail-server (we’re talking iron from 1996) which services about 35000 emails each 24 hours. That’s over 1400/hour.
This just has to be a hysterical lie.
Ofcourse, everybody knew that already…
“I’m not an expert on the specific statutes of Maine.”
Walton, are you an expert on ANY law? Do you have any legal degree or specific experience?
“Yes, in this instance he is clearly intending to abuse the word “doctor” to defraud and fool people. But what he’s doing isn’t technically illegal, ”
I mean, just as a point of information, there are all sorts of things that are made illegal that aren’t “watertight”, and the law has a lot of freedom for fuzzy definitions. It could quite easily live with a rule saying that use of the word “doctor” is okay unless used to defraud and fool, and have a jury come to a conclusion over whether that was the intent.
Chris Maloney is now listed in the dictionary under idiotic tool.
Yes. I’m a final-year law student in England. However, my expertise is limited to the law of England and Wales, and I have no specific knowledge of the state law of Maine. Nor did I hold myself out as possessing such knowledge.
*staring* So it can be taught……Can you teach it to wipe itself? Seriously, it’s leaving stains…..
Dear Myers’ minions,
I just thought I would give those of you who claim to not be cult followers of an evil God an update. Yes, you are all mindless minions. Within hours all contact stopped on Myer’s command. I have received one or two stragglers that I repelled easily with zombie spray.
Did any of you consider the reality that Michael Hawkins got himself kicked off WordPress? Michael Hawkins got himself suspended by arguing with WordPress rather than making basic alterations to what he said. Calling someone a quack doesn’t get you thrown off, arguing like an idiot with your server host does. Try it and see. WordPress suspended him for two days before he came right back on and called them idiots again. Never get in a pissing contest with the IT guy who has you by the server. That’s the lesson here, not poor Moritz who has tried many times before to shut anyone down without success.
By the way, is there a chance that I could get an apology for the day I just spent? It was your doing, after all. And you were all wrong. Oh, and someone mentioned a free camera?
Christopher Maloney, the noisy duck.
Chris,
What should we apologize for?
You are the one who offers alternatives to actual medicine. You are the one who distracts people who are ill from proper treatment. You are the one who calls yourself a doctor without bothering to always add ‘naturopathic’ as required by Maine law.
When you apologize for being in the business of misleading people for your own personal gain, then let us know what we should apologize for.
And you were all wrong.
where?
In calling you NOT a doctor?
by your own fucking license, YOU AREN’T, and cannot legally claim to be.
why you insist on continuing to attract attention to yourself, and thus having so many continue to expose you for what you are (and aren’t) continues to baffle me.
you’d think you would just go away quietly and hope nobody with half a brain notices you, and thus not continue to shoot yourself and your business in the foot.
It’s why I think you might want to see a REAL medical professional about those mental issues you seem to have.
A few days ago, after seeing the Christopher Maloney “on fire in Paris” video, (which has since oh-so-mysteriously disappeared from YouTube), I threw together this translation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqlg9vDtk8k
My video editing skills are not stellar, but I thought that with using the WORST video EVER made as my raw material, I couldn’t really make it any worse.
I’ve received some supportive comments from people who’ve found my translation helped them understand Maloney’s drivel.
What I didn’t expect was to have Maloney himself commenting (though I shouldn’t have been surprised) and even more unexpected was the claims of ”hate speech“ and that it’s a threat of violence toward him.
As I’ve read through the comments here tonight (long time reader, first time commenter), I see why the noisy duck overreacted… it’s just his M.O.
I invoked Godwin’s Law after Maloney’s first comment, but subsequent comments are more than welcome.
Dear Renae Hutchinson,
How fascinating to deny responsibility. Do you truly not realize that “satire” is a complex concept that might be misinterpreted? You have provided a visual ad for those who, like in any cult following, might take things literally.
Dear Myer’s minions:
Here are the facts about you. You are a mob. When Myer’s told you to attack, you immediately did. When Myers told you to stop, you stopped.
As with any mob, these comment pages are only the first layer. This is where you all discuss “getting him” as if it was something like duck hunting. Myers promotes this lighthearted view, attacking people is “fun.”
The second layer of any mob are those who go after me personally, but in a somewhat ethical way. They flood my email, trash my youtube, and generally throw verbal stones. Or, like you Renae, they take time to publicly humiliate me while remaining ignorant of the darker realities of what they are doing.
But there is a third layer to any mob, a group determined to really “hurt” me. The third layer isn’t satisfied with online burning. They have kerosene and they’ve googled where I live.
I think we all know what happens when unstable people get whipped into a frenzy. The headlines are full of it.
I want each one of you to take personal responsibility if I become the next headline. I have written to PZ Myers personally about one individual who is less threatening but lives here in my hometown, but he has neither responded nor called this person off.
It is all fun and games until the duck actually burns. If that happens, know that you helped light the fire.
Please examine the history of propoganda. It’s a simple equation: dehumanize and advocate violence against those dehumanized. We aren’t people, we don’t have feelings.
Let me try to put a human face to the person you are all burning online. If a mob sees the target as a person, they may pause. One of my favorite parts in “To Kill a Mockingbird” is when Scout humanizes her father to the mob.
You believe we are unethical individuals seeking only to profit, even though if you actually look at my website I don’t get paid unless I help my patients. They decide if I help. I don’t even sell supplements, only information. I don’t know of a single M.D. anywhere in the world who will refund your money if you aren’t completely satisfied. And yes, I have refunded money twice in seven years. I have offered it in other cases when I wasn’t helpful, but the patients have asked me to keep it, because they valued the time and energy I put into trying to help them using the best information available from any area of medicine.
Have any of you done the math? I make less than half what a family practitioner makes. And if you look at my education, I could have gotten into a regular medical school. My Harvard program has an 80% acceptance rate and I was in the top of my class.
The reason I became an N.D. was on the advice of an M.D. at Harvard Medical. He was so disillusioned with the hospital model as a cure for illness that he wrote my recommendation to N.D. school. I considered every other option but realized that the N.D. licensure gives the broadest practice range without running into interference from conservative medical boards.
Check out the American Holistic Medical Association, where hundreds of M.D.s practice what I do, but face constant interference with their practices by self-styled experts like Dr. Novella. The idea that an M.D. could be shut down for following 90% algorithmic medicine but adding in a little Therapeutic Touch convinced me to pursue an N.D.
I settled in Maine with my wife and children to be close to her aging parents. I am successful in a state with the lowest out-of-pocket health spending in the country. Anthem Blue Cross has a monopoly here and has refused to cover N.D.s, so patients must pay me out-of-pocket. Most of them also maintain an regular M.D., and I have a referral base from local M.D.s because I am able to work with patients unable to tolerate drugs due to allergies. I am a columnist for a national magazine focusing on Hepatitis and I am in the process of writing a children’s book about our local library.
And then came the Myer’s mob…
I dont’ know if you realise this or not, but it was actually you who created the video with the flame effect in the first place. This “visual ad” you speak of is something you yourself did. The only changes made were a quacking soundtrack.
Your attempts to make what is going on much worse than it really is are quite fallacious and amusing, much like your medical practise.
I do hope one day you do get a grip on reality.
Hey Qvack, we aren’t interest in your tall tails. You aren’t a real doctor, and nothing you say, as a known lair and bullshitter, and purveyor of woo, will change our minds. Take your crap elsewhere. Meanwhile, grow a pair a cojones, and become a man. Renounce your stupidity and gullibility, and learn an honest trade.
It’s not too late. Go to a real med school, and practice real medicine.
”Dear Renae Hutchinson,
How fascinating to deny responsibility. Do you truly not realize that “satire” is a complex concept that might be misinterpreted? You have provided a visual ad for those who, like in any cult following, might take things literally.“
Dear Christopher Maloney,
Do you truly not realise that science, health and medical research are complex concepts that can be, and are, misrepresented?
You have provided references on your website to discredited studies from disgraced sources. You peddle woo under the auspices of legitimate medical treatment. You promote “magic water” to people who, lacking the right information, might take such things literally.
Mental note: Stop feeding the troll.
Quackalicious #162 wrote:
As far as I can tell, nobody here has advocated violence — and yet you keep bringing it up as if repetition will make your case. This isn’t about violence. Criticism isn’t violence.
You’re trying to take the focus off whether or not alternative medicine is effective, and trying to place it on whether or not you’re a nice guy who wants to help people. This is a standard defense tactic of pseudoscientists — often adopted unconsciously.
In woo world, intentions are seen as having magical properties.
“Unethical” doesn’t only include the frauds who know they are frauds. It also includes the self-deluded. Those who fail to exercise reasonable restraint in their thought processes are also violating ethics. You actually mention Novella as someone who is “interfering” with you by criticizing the science behind such nonsense as homeopathy.
The problem here isn’t that we need to “humanize” you more. The problem is that you think your good and noble intentions, and the nice and normal life you lead, ought to be more relevant than it is. You’re trying to shift the argument from substance, to style and tone, by making it all about YOU, YOU, YOU.
No. It doesn’t have a damn thing to do with YOU, as a person. You could be the “nicest” person in the world, and still be an unethical fraud. We could all go out to dinner together, do some fishing, swap some recipes, trade a few favors, give you a hug and a kiss, and it changes nothing that we wrote about the danger of quackery, and quacks. It would not change our criticism. It would not change our opinion about you.
That’s not because we’re mean. It’s because we know how to focus on the big picture, when dealing with science and medicine. Being friends, isn’t the issue. The enemy is the ideology behind your good intentions, and always was, and always will be.
Anthem Blue Cross is a health insurer, so they only cover health treatments, not quackish woo.
Well, that is the internet for you. But I certainly am an individual. What you are seeing is cooperative effort by people who independently agree with each other. Amazingly without collusion overt and obvious collusion. As for myself I may talk more later about some claims made, but I personally have never sent an email to you so it’s a bit silly to level that at the entire readership of a blog. The blog gives exposure, but people often act independently.
This post is the first I’ve read of this, and I’m currently working throgh reading it all because the dangers, intentional or not, of the woo that calls itself alt medicine.
Oh my poor happy fingers, submitting before I’m done writing.
Well, frankly I won’t be held responsible, Mr. Quack, for what others who happen to read here may say. I am quite capable of saying what I want.
Secondly, I do care about alt medicine. You see I used to buy into that stuff. I really did, mostly out of poverty and desperation as I wasn’t able to get real medical help very often. I worsened my health substantially by turning to non-helpful and even dangerous therapies.
Lastly, I worked with a woman who is dead now because her alternative healer played on her deep fears of undergoing surgery to remove cancer in her breast. She was so positive, so confident, that diet and vitamin treatments would help her overcome the cancer.
Instead it spread to her bones and lungs, killing her in a particularly horrible way. She might be alive today if someone had not given her an unrealistic vision of what it would take to overcome the disease.
Yes that is anecdotal, but the results of established breast cancer treatments are not anecdotal. They are encouraging in fact.
You’re demonstrating it pretty well thank you.
I want each one of you to take personal responsibility if I become the next headline. I have written to PZ Myers personally about one individual who is less threatening but lives here in my hometown, but he has neither responded nor called this person off.
like I said, Maloney, I really think you should seriously consider seeking professional help from a (qualified) mental health care practitioner.
your paranoia borders on the schizophrenic.
it goes beyond drama queen status, imo.
Check out the American Holistic Medical Association, where hundreds of M.D.s practice what I do,
argumentum ad populum.
They decide if I help.
so you leave the decision as to whether treatment has been efficacious to those… that have even less qualifications to determine such, medically, than yourself.
YOU SHOULD BE FUCKING ASHAMED.
gives the broadest practice range
LIAR.
you can’t even write prescriptions!
I love the “we’re all individuals” idea. Take a moment for individual thought, am I part of a mob? I apologize for posting this on the two threads that continue to attack me, but I think it is important for those advocating attacking others to realize that a very small proportion of their readers are not well balanced. In a world where angry people are looking for someone to blame, encouraging them is a bad idea. Here is Russell Brand replying to the death threats he received simply for appearing on a television show. He is a very crude and very funny man. But no one told anyone to attack him, and my attacks began when Myers listed me as a target and Dr. Novella confirmed that I was a threat to be dealt with harshly. To be fair, none of my personal emails have been quite as good as Brand’s, but it gives a sense of the sort of “reasoned discourse” I’ve received over the last few days since Myers falsely accused me (check the site, Hawkins falsely accused me to Myers, and Myers posted it as the truth.) Warning to those who don’t like vulgarity and profanity, this video (and my junk email box) are full of both.
I could’ve sworn I heard quacking! But how could a duck get in here?
Hey Qwacker, learn how to think cogently before you open your mouth. You are making a fool of yourself. What a loser.
Man, Quack, try to have some dignity. This is becoming embarrassing.
you can’t even write prescriptions!
But he can tell his victims to “Chew on some willow bark and call me in the morning”.
their readers are not well balanced.
project much?
I apologize for posting this
don’t bother, we find you amusing.
Here is Russell Brand replying to the death threats he received simply for appearing on a television show.
Did you know PZ received death threats for desecrating a cracker?
what a world, eh?
oh, and have YOU actually received death threats?
I think not, drama queen.
Myers falsely accused me
seems that should be the least of your concerns at this point, considering it was still done in your name.
Have you written WordPress to get Hawkins blog reinstated?
I bet not, you fucking hypocrite.
this video (and my junk email box) are full of both.
from the vid:
“Sympathy can often be converted to felatio very quickly.”
are you sure you aren’t missing something “doc”?
What continues to be the most troubling about my experience with various readers here is the concept that dehumanizing and inciting to violence will not lead to actual violence against the “offenders.”
I received some more lovely emails today, and going through them the words “blood on your hands…” came up several times. For those naïve to the kill-the-abortionists campaign, these are precisely the sort of accusations made against doctors who perform abortions. Since the doctors have “blood on their hands” zealots are justified in murdering them.
Paranoid? I’m not so sure. Dr. George Tiller, the doctor shot to death in his church, was characterized by Bill O’Reilly as: “Dr. Tiller has blood on his hands…O’Reilly didn’t tell anyone to do anything violent, but he did put Tiller in the public eye”
“(O’Reilly’s) characterization of Tiller fits exactly into ancient conservative, paranoid stories: a decadent, permissive and callous elite tolerates moral monstrosities that every common-sense citizen just knows to be awful. Conspiring against our folk wisdom, O’Reilly says, the sophisticates have shielded Tiller from the appropriate, legal consequences for his deeds. It’s left to “judgment day” to give him what’s coming.” (complete article reference at http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/05/31/tiller/)
Let’s see, Myer’s characterization of quacks is that states are too permissive in their licensing and that any common-sense Myer’s reader knows we’re just awful. According to Myers, we are protected by woolly thinking legislatures from appropriate legal action. It’s left to Myers’ minions to give them what’s coming. The only thing missing is a history of violent action against quacks, and Myer’s own ability to differentiate between humiliation and violence. (Thank you elder God, you have destroyed my web presence for all time, but I have a telephone again.)
But if you look at the PZ copy sites, we have a wide variety of violent terminology. Evidently, according to some Myers’ fans, I am guilty of copulating with my mother. (http://generalsystemsvehicle.blogspot.com/2010/02/christopher-maloney-is-quack-part-four.html) Even O’Reilly didn’t say that about Dr. Tiller.
Of course, “It is clear that (this website) poses no actual threat to (quacks). This accusation is just a ploy to silence all opposition to (quacks).” I feel so much safer now.
Oops, I misquoted. The original quote is about the Nuremburg Files where they list the next abortionist to be killed. Here it is: “It is clear that the Nuremberg files website poses no actual threat to babykilling abortionists. This accusation is just a ploy to silence all opposition to babykilling abortionists.” (Original quote: http://www.armyofgod.com/deadAbortionists.html) Funny thing, the ninth circuit court of appeals found that the Nuremburg website did actually pose a threat. So I think I’m being reasonable about the possibility of one of your number posing an actual threat when they write me about what they’d like to do to a duck.
Shorter duck….
blah blah blah blah blah I’m a Jew in Nazi Germany!!!! blah blah blah blah blah
Dear Renae Hutchinson,
In reference to your assertion that somehow I am guilty of thyroid cancer deaths, let me explain that all of my thyroid patients have standard doctors in addition to myself. They have a PCP, an endocrinologist, and me to avoid any possibility of missing something. In most cases, their synthroid doses are in need of constant adjustment because their bodies aren’t able to maintain a constant level of thyroid. As part of my work up, I request several tests in addition to the standard testing. These additional tests are done at the Mayo clinic and provide insight as to the cause of their fluctuation.
Some patients discuss with their prescribing physician whether to go on armor thyroid, which has been standardized to an 80/20 mix of T4 to T3 since the 1970’s and is a pharmaceutical drug. Recently, armor thyroid has been harder to get because it is in such demand, so I have patients get compounded mixes of T4/T3 from their pharmacist or I have patients request small amounts of cyomel in addition to their synthroid. Again, most of these patients have not been able to control their thyroid needs with synthroid (T4) alone.
I have also seen patients who have allergic responses to synthroid. One elderly patient had an anaphylactic response to iodine, and was unable to take any thyroid medication even though her TSH was over 100 (yes, it was pretty startling that she was still alive). I was able to get her thyroid to balance to some extent using other substances.
So, in summary, I treat in addition to conventional doctors when standard treatments are not effective. I do not treat thyroid cancer directly, but provide supportive therapy if patients are experiencing side effects from treatment.
I recommend looking at the Nuremburg Files as a comparison for whether your “satire” is hate speech. What the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals found was that the graphics of killing abortionists was much more powerful than the text.
Another comparison would be political campaign ads. I have seen some terrible ads, but I have never seen a candidate engulfed in flames. Even the most radical extremists draw the line before advocating immolation.
As a strange coincidence, around Augusta we have seen serial arson. We have had our share of individual arson, but rarely do a group of individuals decide to torch multiple structures. I’m sure this has absolutely nothing to do with Myers or you, but it’s worth reading: http://www.kjonline.com/news/serial-arsons-seen_2010-02-22.html
Hey Quack, Qwack, Qvack. Still a delusional fool, a liar and a bullshitter. You have nothing cogent to say to us. Every post of yours shows you inane, insane, and foolish attitudes and beliefs. Keep up the good work. You are a traveling circus of amusement for us.
tl;dr
…but DUDE!!!
You’re freaking obsessed with this. Give it up!
Methinks you have a *teeensy* bit too high an opinion of yourself. All this bluster and righteous indignation is a *leeeetle bit* out of proportion.
No idea where you got this from: In reference to your assertion that somehow I am guilty of thyroid cancer deaths… but I really don’t care.
I think this’ll be the last time I respond to you, dear quack, as I feel the only thing I may be guilty of is indulging your delusions.
Paranoid? I’m not so sure.
actually, I think you’re more the run-of-the-mill drama queen myself.
I was able to get her thyroid to balance to some extent using other substances.
how can you claim it was your treatments that did this?
can you show us exactly which tests were performed, when, and show causal relationship distinguishable from her regular prescriptive effect?
well?
BTW…why do you INSIST on coming here merely to spout your paranoid delusions, when NONE of us are even remotely interested.
those of us here, and there are many, who are actually scientists only care about THE SCIENCE.
of which you have shown us NOTHING.
You’re living in denial, Mister. I really, really suggest you take a reality check with a REAL mental health care professional.
too much cognitive dissonance in your diet, would be my diagnosis.
Bill O’Reilly as: “Dr. Tiller has blood on his hands…O’Reilly didn’t tell anyone to do anything violent, but he did put Tiller in the public eye”
nonsense.
Tiller had ALREADY been attacked by anti-abortion foes LONG before O’Reilly posted his drivel.
he’s been a target of theirs for years.
seriously, you don’t know what you’re talking about, haven’t since you came here, and seem absolutely insistent on shooting yourself in the foot over and over again with each successive post here.
I’m surprised you have any toes left!
received some more lovely emails today, and going through them the words “blood on your hands…” came up several times. For those naïve to the kill-the-abortionists campaign, these are precisely the sort of accusations made against doctors who perform abortions.
I’m sure the word “the” was also found in common between those accusing you of malfeasance and those incorrectly accusing doctors who perform abortions of murder.
makes about as much sense to compare the two.
seriously? THIS is your argument?
and you wonder why I think you should get yourself checked out.
Dear PZ Myers and readers,
It seems that Michael Hawkins blog site is back up, so either your campaign was successful or WordPress has a policy of suspending bloggers who continually attacking them. Please check out his most recent attack on WordPress on http://forthesakeofscience.freewp.us/2010/02/06/wordpress-naturopaths-and-whining/
It also appears that Hawkins is unable to “let go” of me causing his problems. If he goes offline again, it is entirely his own fault.
Hey Quackhead, when are you going to stop taking advantage of people. You are just a con man. You have said nothing cogent in all your posts here. Still nothing cogent. What a loser. Get professional mental health help for your problems–like the problem that we even care what you think…
Dear Elder God PZ Myers and readers,
Michael Hawkins’ blog was offline for all of four days, including a weekend that involved a general WordPress failure of many sites. At this point it is clear that the skeptic storm PZ Myers generated (how like and elder god to blast first and ask questions later)was a lot of screaming about nothing but standard software error. I don’t expect an apology anytime soon.
If all of you care so deeply about censorship, why is it that I’m the one bringing this up three days after Hawkins is back online?
I pointed the restoration of the blog the other day.
This “skeptic storm” was not just about the fact that wordpress inappropriately shut down a blog; it was also about the fact that you, naturpathic phony Christopher Maloney, are a quack. That hasn’t changed.
Dear PZ Myers,
If you define a quack to be anyone who uses alternative medicine, then I am one. If you define a quack to be someone who, as the Oxford English compact dictionary says, is “an unqualified person who dishonestly claims to have medical knowledge” then you are wrong.
I meet the state qualifications to be a doctor. I went to medical school and passed national boards. I prescribe according to state law, I maintain an NPI, and I maintain malpractice insurance. More importantly, I practice within the confines of my field of expertise while maintaining a referral base with other local M.D.s and D.O.s. In my discussion with Dr. Novella, I believe I have shown myself to be adequately familiar with the standard medical options available for various common diseases. In the interest of evidence based practice, I present the drug options to my patients as well as any alternatives that have any science behind them. I commonly tell patients that something only has “a rat study behind it” but in most cases my patients have a variety of allergies to drugs. In other words, it is my options or suffer.
In my discussion with Dr. Novella, I have asked the basic question: what is the evidence base behind modern medicine? It is a surprising mishmash of a few good areas combined with a wide variety of ritualized, non-evidence based practices maintained for decades without proof of clinical efficacy. When the Dartmouth Atlas tracks things like carotid stents for stroke, a patient might be thirty times more likely to receive a stent in one part of the country than another part. How can we look at the extraordinary variation in practices and claim the rational scientific objective medicine is being practiced?
The basis of my practice, Professor Myers, is on good nutrition and the changing of one’s diet to support healing. With the publication of the China Study, the world’s largest epidemiological study of the genetically homogenous Han Chinese, any rationalist would convert his or her diet to a plant base. But the dairy council funds most of the nutritional training our schools receive, including our medical schools. That we expect our conventional doctors to give unbiased nutritional advice when they have only received one or two courses is ridiculous. Dietitians should fill the gap, but I do not see the referrals happening unless a patient has one or two “dietary diseases” like type II diabetes.
I prescribe supplements, often vitamins, and do not sell them in the office. By using third party independent testing, I make sure the vitamins are active and free of contaminants. I also place patients on short term trials and ask them not to refill their vitamins if they do not benefit.
Professor Myers, the vast bulk of “alternative medicine” sales are made directly to the consumer from places like Walmart. Their doctors are rarely aware of the extent of supplements taken because patients are embarrassed to tell their conventional doctors, but they do tell me. I regularly help patients avoid herb/drug interactions that might place them in the hospital.
If all the alternative practitioners with any training were to disappear, you might see a ten percent drop in alternative medicine sales. But all the major supermarket chains will continue to supply consumers directly, and the conventional medical model of “just say no” is ineffective, as the majority of those with chronic illnesses will continue to look for alternatives. The rational solution is a specialty that focuses on alternative medicine. While I will not defend some of the alternative practices of my Naturopathic colleagues, I do think that the scope of Naturopathic practice is the best option for meeting this need. That is why I chose this degree over a conventional degree, because it allows me to focus on the area of medicine I think has a possibility of helping with our current healthcare crisis.
I do have answers to Hawkins’ initial claims, a more detailed explanation of my non-quackness, and a provocative page on the quackery of modern medicine under (just for you) quackery at: http://www.maloneymedical.com. You should at least come by and view the Russell Brand video to give a sense of the well reasoned discourse typical of what I have received. Also, I’m still looking for an elder God happy dance (my email to you?).
Shut up Quack, Qvack, Qwack. You have nothing cogent to say, since you are nothing but a con man preying upon innocent victims. Until you change that by renouncing your “profession”, and finding a honest job where you don’t cheat people and cause harm, that won’t change. What part of that don’t you understand. You gain nothing posting here, except to show your credulous nature. Which we laugh at. Bwahahaha. We laugh at you, the lying idjit Quack who thinks he isn’t one.
I think i’ts more likely “WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH-alicious” than quackalicious.
Keep crying, you fraud.
Mr Maloney,
I will say this, to conclude my dealings with you.You are not the worst quack I have come across, and I appreciate your acknowledgment of evidence-based medicine on your website.But should you ever pose as a medical professional again, or continue to do so by describing yourself as a “doctor”, I will be on to you.Kind Regards.
As has been said before, there is no such thing as “alternative” medicine.
There is woo favored by quacks such as yourself and there is medicine.
If something works, can repeatedly be shown to work through trials and testing, it is medicine. If it is untested and remains so because of the people who espouse its wonders, then it is not medicine. It is woo.
You sir peddle woo and you sir are a quack.
Dear Rev. Big Dumb Chimp,
What a startling naïve view you have of medicine. Do you still think a kindly doctor will come to your door with a black bag, perhaps in a horse drawn cart like in Little House in the Prairie? If you find such a doctor, try your best to clone him, because they are a dying breed.
Medicine, my dear chimp, is largely what the pharmaceutical companies can convince the doctors to sell to the public. As I have pointed out in Novella’s blog, modern medical practice varies as much as thirty fold across the country. You might die of old school surgery in Topeka, or get top-of-the-line care in Minneapolis.
It’s a roulette system, where doctors banned from one state show up practicing the next state over. Next time you’re in the E.R., ask your doctor for a urine sample. The AMA estimates that doctors are a hundred times more likely to be addicts than the general public.
The concept that evidence-based medicine is the norm is gravely mistaken. Hospitals and doctors are widely hostile to the idea of scientific validation of their practices. How a surgery is performed varies widely from doctor to doctor within the same hospital, and the surgeries themselves often lack even basic studies of efficacy. I’ve covered this in detail at http://www.maloneymedical.com under, just for Myer’s minions, Quackery.
In short, dear chimp, the emperor has no clothes. M.D.s might accuse me of having only the threadbare tatters of studies to surround myself with, but when I reply that their royal jewels are hanging in the breeze they suddenly lose interest in the argument.
I reviewed a patient file this morning where every possible drug had been tried in every combination with no effect, but he remains on six different medications for uncontrolled hypertension. At five medications we enter an area of polypharmacy, where patients might have adverse interactions between medications. So this patient was experiencing side effects from medications that did not treat the original complaint. His M.D.’s response was to add another medication and the patient came to me in disgust. In what other area of life would this be remotely acceptable? Unfortunately, this is the norm for many patients.
Dear chimp, please take advice from a kindly old duck, and get wise about health care. It’s called the practice of medicine because it isn’t a science.
At this point it is clear that the skeptic storm PZ Myers generated (how like and elder god to blast first and ask questions later)was a lot of screaming about nothing but standard software error. I don’t expect an apology anytime soon.
I ask again:
Did you even TRY to contact WordPress to inform them that you would like to see Michael’s Blog put back up?
no, you didn’t, did you.
which is why you are a whiny, hypocritical, ignorant, drama queen.
In short, dear chimp, the emperor has no clothes.
bah, rather the emporer clothes himself with libraries full of knowledge, while you scramble to cover yourself with scraps of nonsense.
you’re delusional.
Hey Quack, Qwack, Qvack. If you didn’t follow totally and exactly the scientific medicine today, you committed fraud against your patient. That makes you a con man, liar, bullshitter, and all around creep. Hence, your opinions are worth less than the dog doo we might step in. You need to find an honest profession, which doesn’t require you to be a liar. Try being a telephone solicitor or used care salesman. Either would be a tremendous step upwards in honesty and integrity for you.
It’s a roulette system, where doctors banned from one state show up practicing the next state over. Next time you’re in the E.R., ask your doctor for a urine sample. The AMA estimates that doctors are a hundred times more likely to be addicts than the general public.
good thing they’re in the right place to get treatment for it then, God forbid they would try to get treatment for an addiction from a quack like yourself.
poisoning the well are we?
how many skeletons in your closet, quack?
mind if we take a look?
As I have pointed out in Novella’s blog, modern medical practice varies as much as thirty fold across the country.
even if you had evidence of that, which you obviously don’t or you would have posted it, would you like us to run a similar comparison to homeopathy across the states… see what kind of “variability” we get?
eh?
Hospitals and doctors are widely hostile to the idea of scientific validation of their practices.
lies.
… now if you’ll excuse me, quacky, I have to get a blood test to see how much better I am doing after an ERCP (look it up, dimbulb).
A procedure, btw, you fucking homeopaths can’t do, and instead, recommend bullshit like “liver flushes”, which if I had actually tried over the last month, would likely have resulted in me getting pancreatitis along with the dysfunctional liver.
take your quackery and shove it, you dangerous asswipe.
Are you for real or a parody of yourself?
Today I came across an article on a news site about an arthritis drug that has been determined that it doubles the risk of heart attacks for users. In 2003 this drug was removed by the TGA (Therapeutic Goods Administration) because of such a risk.
Now how could this be if medicine is simply what Big PharmaTM was able to convince doctors on what to sell? Even if your statment were true, it’s quite a mute point. What Dan Dennett would call a deepity. How does your statement take into account evidence? Blind and double blind trials? Peer review and meta-analysis? Subsequent data gathering through exposure to the population? Removal from market due to unsafe practices? You and those other quacks just ignore the scientific element of the enterprise, make it out like it’s one big capitalist conspiracy.
I really wish you quacks would at the very least be honest about how medicine is practiced. People can’t make an informed choice when they are being misled or even lied to about how conventional medicine comes about. Meanwhile quacks like you aren’t bound by any of these evidential restrictions and instead promote your quackery as if you’re the little guy who cares about the dying patients. Why can’t you be objectively honest in describing how medicine comes about? Don’t you think that you can make a case without being dishonest and borderline conspiratorial about conventional medicine?
Yeah. I don’t take nitroglycerin because it stops the chest pain due to stable angina. I take it because Big Pharma convinced my doctor to sell it to me.
My wife is infused with Tysabri monthly to enrich Big Pharma, not because it’s effective in slowing the plaques caused by multiple sclerosis.
Fraudulent Quack Liar:
Yeah, in your fantasies only, quackster. The meds prescribed by my neurologist allow me to live a normal, active life. None of your crap could allow me to do that. The crap you are actively trying to sell in order to line your pockets would not only be ineffective, but allow my condition to continue degrading my quality of life.
“it’s quite a mute point”
Moot.
I have provided evidence of the various things I have said at http://www.maloneymedical.com under “Quackery” (bottom of the scroll menu). I am continuing this discussion on the endless thread, because it is the most active.
Yawn, your evidence is like opinions, since it doesn’t have prior scientific rigor, and you can’t even detect the “energy fields” in a double blind study. What a delusional fool you are Qwackster.