Oh no, a possible favorite fishapod fight? Somebody get the fire hoses…
Legionsays
Following Nerd’s cue…
Yes, I think we’re in the mood for tuna steaks tonight.
Bernard:
Pffft. Call that a suite?
Ah yes, Singapore Airlines. They’re a few notches up from the flying cattle cars that we frequent.
We’d love to see more money poured into America’s rail system. Just imagine the level of affordable luxury us proles could enjoy.
Rachel Bronwynsays
Could Tiktaalik really have been so adorable? I’d just love to have this cutesy beast added to the half-sleeze on my left arm. It’s an image I’ll be able to look at in thirty years and still smile.
And yes, I’m playing the song on guitar now. Freaking catchy.
Sven DiMilosays
song’s cool, but the attempted rhyme of ‘jacket’ and ‘rocket’ grates every…time
nigelTheBoldsays
song’s cool, but the attempted rhyme of ‘jacket’ and ‘rocket’ grates every…time
The Redhead mentioned something about frying some okra for a gumbo dinner tonight. There is a bag of mixed seafood in the freezer. We have planned over rice.
Ring Tailed Lemuriansays
From the previous incarnation of the Endless Thread…..
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
When was the last time the undead thread went three and a half hours without a comment?
boygenius
I was just thinking the same thing. Must be Olympic Fever or something
Definitely Olympic Fever in my case. Man, was the Men’s Snowboard Cross exciting, or what? No style judges involved ofc :) Can’t wait for the women’s event.
Other people were probably gawping at little Chinese skaters being twirled overhead (spread legged). (Which is the only excitement you can get from style events like that).
Carliesays
I thought all the figure skaters falling down was pretty exciting, too. I seriously wondered if that rink ice was suffering the way the speed skating ice was, the way the teams were skating. I think every single team except one had a major falter that ended up with either their hand or their butts on the ice.
Ring Tailed Lemuriansays
re Westerns
My favourite TV western was “Bronco”. Anyone else old enough to remember that (and not from reruns)? At the time, I really wanted a “manly” name like “Ty Hardin”, or “Clint Walker”.
I can still sing the theme song* which I thought was almost as good as the “Rawhide” theme song. I also liked “Cheyenne”, and “Rawhide” ofc.
As for Western actors, imho, no one came close to Lee Van Cleef, but I may be biased, having a similar nose (or it was similar, until it got broken, twice, playing rugby).
*We used to sing a parody of it, which started Bronco, Bronco, tearing across the dotted line,
Bronco, Bronco Pain!
referring to a horrible (but ubiquitous and unavoidable) brand of toilet paper called “Bronco” that was seemingly made of greaseproof paper. Shiver. Even just remembering it makes me clench defensively. No wonder we all had skid marks in those days.
David Marjanovićsays
I’m impressed that Walton is considering going into immigration law. I suspect it’s not a high paying field
For lawyer standards, LOL!
I have a virtual notice on my computer – a Mac – which says, “Back off, woman. You are not personally responsible for saving Walton from his moments of idiocy.”
:-D :-D :-D
don’t beat yourself up over not having saved the world by the time you’re in your twenties.
Or, like Caesar did, about not having conquered the world yet at the age at which Alexander the Great had done it! He promptly went on to conquer Gaul at least.
Rehydration mix recipe: a litre of tepid water, as much salt as you can pinch between three fingers (thumb, index, middle), as much sugar as you can scoop in three fingers (make a shovel of the index, middle, ring) and a dash of orange for flavouring. Cures hangovers,
Interesting. I’m wondering how that could work. Does it simply wash out the methanol?
good for sports, saves lives during cholera epidemics.
Not surprising.
pronounced as “e” like in “bed”
…of course this doesn’t hold for South Africans and at least some New Zealanders. They use the sound of French é in “bed”.
Singapore Airlines first class suites…
The mind boggles.
First class suite, bah. Where’s my teleporter?
Subthread won. PZ, open the next one already. :-þ
Opussays
Since Nerd brought up food I’ll open this can of worms: Is there a consensus amongst the regulars regarding eating cephalopods, especially those which appear to have evolved advanced cognitive and behavioral skills? I’m going to spend a couple of weeks in Greece this spring and expect to have many opportunities to sample the local seafood. I’ve only eaten octopus a couple of times, years ago, and at the time wasn’t aware of the research showing their cognitive abilities. I haven’t read anything that would make an appreciable dent in my appetite for calamari, but I’m a little hesitant about munching octopods. It’s much the same as my willingness to eat mahi mahi and my unwillingness to eat dolphin & porpoise. Any thoughts on the wisdom or advisability of offending the Cephalopod Overlords by partaking?
Nerd: Are you sure you’re going to fry the okra for gumbo? Okra is usually the thickening agent. . .
David Marjanovićsays
brand of toilet paper called “Bronco” that was seemingly made of greaseproof paper
I was going to say “Ha!!! You haven’t experienced Communist toilet paper, still available for instance in Polish railway stations!!!”, but… greaseproof paper? :-S Shiver indeed.
Tulsesays
I’ve only eaten octopus a couple of times, years ago, and at the time wasn’t aware of the research showing their cognitive abilities.
Pigs are smarter. Just sayin’.
Feynmaniacsays
I have a virtual notice on my computer – a Mac – which says, “Back off, woman. You are not personally responsible for saving Walton from his moments of idiocy.”
LMAO!
To be fair to Walton it does continue:
And compared with when you first arrived here they are just moments.
Bernard Bumnersays
Where’s my teleporter?
Richard Branson could tell you, but then he’d have to kill you.
Nerd: Are you sure you’re going to fry the okra for gumbo? Okra is usually the thickening agent. . .
That’s what she said, and hoped she avoided a couple of past incidents trying to fry okra (grease fires). The frying is the first step of the process, and it does end up as a thick seafood stew. I seem to recall Justin Wilson frying them up too.
AJ Milnesays
Speaking of Tiktaalik and Shubin, tho’ it’s probably already been noted here somewhere, I really do have to say how much I loved the bit in The Inner Fish where he explains that when they found that fossil, they were, more or less, actually looking for it…
… and why they looked for it there, and why that made sense, the whole thing.
(/One more thing to remember any time some dumb-as-a-bag-o’-hammers creonutter starts claiming ‘evolutionary biology isn’t a predictive science’.)
Antiochus Epiphanessays
OT– I can’t believe anyone couldn’t love Dropkick Murphys Fields of Athenry*. It angries up the blood! I feel like pouncing on a limey oppressor. But I don’t think there are any around. -Sigh-
Instead, I may just work on some MS revisions.
After I screw around on the intertoobs. Might have to listen to it again.
*I actually love every version of this song. It was my grandmother Eileen’s favorite.
Ring Tailed Lemuriansays
David #17
You haven’t experienced Communist toilet paper
Oh, I have, I have. I spent three weeks in the Soviet Union in ’89, but by then I’d learnt how to wash my arse using water. (If you got shit anywhere else on your body, eg your face or hands, would you just wipe it off with paper?)
I thought all the figure skaters falling down was pretty exciting, too
You must have a very low excitement threshold. Wish I’d met more women like you when I was younger :)
Carliesays
You must have a very low excitement threshold.
Yeah, I’m easy.
(If that’s not quotemine material, I don’t know what is.)
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
Speaking of excitement, curling starts at noon EST.
Qwertysays
Tiktaalik – a fish that can walk into your frying pan. Rev. BDC, that’s almost as good as bacon.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Speaking of excitement, curling starts at noon EST.
The fun part of curling is watching the sweepers go at it.
David Marjanovićsays
Forgot to add…
I know how to say “do not want, I know how to use chopsticks” in Mandarin…
I even know how to turn “want” into “need”, which makes the whole thing quite a bit more polite… :-)
If you got shit anywhere else on your body, eg your face or hands, would you just wipe it off with paper?
Toilet paper does need to be wet in most cases, especially towards the end of the procedure. But then it works.
Bronco toilet “tissue”
Oh for crying out loud. They called that “DE LUXE”!?! The chutzpa! It burns!!!
David Marjanovićsays
Tiktaalik – a fish that can walk into your frying pan.
Except it’s twice the size of your frying pan.
Paul W.says
Tiktaalik – a fish that can walk into your frying pan. Rev. BDC, that’s almost as good as bacon.
Kids these days got no respect for their great* grandparents.
(That asterisk was not a footnote asterisk. It was a Kleene star, indicating indefinite repetition of “great”.)
Ring Tailed Lemuriansays
Rev. BigDumbChimp
Speaking of excitement, curling starts at noon EST.
Nice one :)
But Carlie’s probably fainted.
In case anyone is wondering why the hell I’m monopolising threads recently, I used to work for a SAAB dealership, and now, like PygmyLoris, I’m “overqualified” for any of the McJobs available. And I’m “too old” for anything else. Oh, well, only a few years to hang on until my pension kicks in.
Hyperonsays
From the previous thread:
Wrong; you misrepresented your own data source.
People were asked if they find homosexuality “morally acceptable” or “morally unacceptable. (Those were the only two options presented.) 0% of Muslims said “morally acceptable”, compared with 58% of the general British public. My characterization that 0% of British Muslims were willing to disavow homophobia seems pretty fair and accurate. Anyway, I linked to the study so people could decide for themselves. Whatever apologetics you try to spin, you can’t get around the fact that a 58% disparity between Muslims and the general public is very, very disturbing.
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
Except it’s twice the size of your frying pan.
That has never stopped people.
Carliesays
Curling? Oh my stars and garters!
Silisays
Again?! You’ve got to be fscking kidding me.
Sven, is this thing accelerating?
Tik tik tik tik tik Tiktaalik
Ring Tailed Lemuriansays
Hyperon #34
(Not sure why I’m answering you, boredom probably) but I know a homosexual British Muslim, and I just cannot believe that survey is accurate. Where did they interview these Muslims? At home, with their families around them? In the street, with their friends?
And the 42% of the “general public” (sheesh, nice “distinction”) that felt the same way probably include all the other religions. Maybe most religious people, of any religion, are homophobes?
strange gods before me ॐsays
Hyperon, your hatred of Muslim people still has nothing to do with the advantages extended to white people which are not also extended people of color.
(Except insofar as your hatred of Muslim people is a function of your white privilege.)
So we’re still watching your brain break. You couldn’t figure out what to say about white privilege, so you changed the topic. Fucking Muslims!
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Yawn, Hyperon the bigoted fool still thinks we are even listening to him beyond what is required to smash his falsehoods? What a idjit.
Hyperon, we don’t give a shit about your bigoted paranoia. Why should we? The true answer:
*crickets chirring*
Hyperonsays
Yes, society is less sexist and racist (in both the UK and US) than it was fifty years ago; but it is still, in many respects, profoundly sexist and racist today.
So you say; but I’m unconvinced that the racism or sexism that does exist is actually stronger than conscious and unconscious, formal and informal affirmative action.
African-Americans are still disproportionately concentrated in poor communities and lower-paying jobs; and since poverty tends to be self-perpetuating across generations, not to mention the effect of informal racial discrimination in education and employment, the racial disparity continues.
Yes, well, this does not necessarily have much to do with racial discrimination, as you yourself have noticed in the past. Perhaps the legacy of historical racism is enough to account for these economic disparities.
As a society, we perpetuate gender stereotypes – which hurt men as well as women – in the way that we speak and think. How many times have you heard a cowardly person told to “man up” or “grow some balls”? How often have you heard sexually active women described as “sluts” or “slags”, while no such stigma attaches to a sexually active man? And how rare is it, still, for a woman who doesn’t meet conventional standards of attractiveness to be treated fairly in her professional life?
I think I have successfully argued several times over that sexism against men can be just as blatant and harmful. The subject of rape comes up every time we debate sexism, whereas nobody seems to care that men are more likely to be targeted in acts of unprovoked violence. Nobody seems to care that in many quarters men are still expected to slave away for minimum wage in a factory, while the wife has to look after mostly sleeping children.
Recent figures suggest that in the UK, 20% of women earn more than their partner, with a further 25% earning approximately the same. Now consider that men are overrepresented in grueling manual labour, while women are overrepresented in comparatively easy jobs that hinge upon “communication skills”. Consider that a large chunk of women are willfully housewives and have no career to speak of.
In view of these things, it seems hard to see that your unsupported declarations in connection with the allegedly “profound” sexism against women are at all coupled with reality.
Ring Tailed Lemuriansays
Carlie, don’t mention of your garters! I won’t be able to concentrate on the curling now.
Are you on chatroulette? :)
(Don’t worry, I don’t have a webcam)
….expects this thread to get very quiet for a few hours, while people check out my link :)
Ring Tailed Lemuriansays
Hyperon #41
Right, now I’m definitely off to get that killfile link from the last thread.
Feynmaniacsays
Maureen,
In light of Walton’s new humanity I suggest you make the following changes to your virtual note:
“Back off, woman. You are not personally responsible for saving Walton Hyperon from his moments of idiocy.”
RMM Barriesays
Nerd of Redhead, OM @40
What a idjit
Seconded + previous directed at Hyperon X 10?
nigelTheBoldsays
Not that I care, but here’s an interesting factoid:
“While 72 percent of women in the U.K. are working, women represent only 22 percent of management jobs and 9.6 percent of executive directors.” — Institute of Management Annual Salary Survey 2000
Granted, that was 10 years ago. I couldn’t find anything more recent with 10 seconds of Googling.
The situation in the US is worse.
dNorrisMsays
(OTP) Normally I’m extremely MEH about Politico, but Yea! All out favorite people in 1 spot :
************
…Ed Meese, Heritage Foundation President Edwin Feulner, Family Research Council head Tony Perkins, Media Research Center leader Brent Bozell, Americans for Tax Reform President Grover Norquist, direct mail guru Richard Viguerie, and David Keene, the head of the American Conservative Union,…
************
Here is a quote:
The document will be aimed explicitly, Meese said, at “reminding economic conservatives that morality* is essential to limited government, social conservatives that unlimited government is a threat to moral self-government…”
*************
Bummer about Meese; I actually respected him. Last I checked he was an antiprohibitionist.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Hyperon, go away. Nobody wants to even bother with your bigotry. Your refusal to go away shows some mental problems on your part, which you need to deal with outside of this blog. You have such a system available to you. Make use of it.
tsig0says
Opus:
Don’t worry about eating squid. The Catholics eat the flesh of their god every Sunday.
Matt Penfoldsays
Not that I care, but here’s an interesting factoid:…
Ahhhhhhhh!
Nigel, please please please stop using factoid to mean a fact.
It actually means something that is untrue!
Matt Penfoldsays
Oh, and I am pretty sure you data with regards the UK is correct. The situation might even be worse, as there is evidence that the economic downturn has resulted in woman being made redundant in greater proportion than men.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
Recent figures suggest that in the UK, 20% of women earn more than their partner, with a further 25% earning approximately the same. Now consider that men are overrepresented in grueling manual labour, while women are overrepresented in comparatively easy jobs that hinge upon “communication skills”. Consider that a large chunk of women are willfully housewives and have no career to speak of.
Recent figures suggest that in the UK, 80% of men earn more than their partner, with a further 25% earning approximately the same.
My, Hyperon, you make such a strong case.
Many of the fields that women have been delegated towards, like wait staff and child care are not at all physically demanding and pay so very well.
And how many of those housekeepers are kept at home because their religion or culture has informed them that this is where they belong.
Yes, you have shown conclusively that the white male has lost control.
Hyperonsays
So we’re still watching your brain break. You couldn’t figure out what to say about white privilege, so you changed the topic. Fucking Muslims!
Actually, my line of thought was absolutely coherent, and not all that difficult to follow.
You asserted, without any supporting evidence, that “white people” are “privileged”. I then cited the disparity in the treatment of the BNP and mainstream British Muslims. Morally speaking, the views of the Muslims are probably even more worthy of contempt (for instance, between 10% and 20% thought the July bombings were justified; 40% advocate Sharia). The only reason for the clear difference in treatment (for instance, with Nick Griffin being insulted and ridiculed on national television) seems to be that Muslims more often than not have brown skin.
nigelTheBoldsays
@Matt: sorry. Didn’t mean to. I’ve only half a mind on this (which is about 666 times as much as Hyperon) — I’m trying to work, but distracting myself.
It’ll Never Happen Again. Consider me chastised.
Ring Tailed Lemuriansays
Wow!
I only did Moscow to Irkutsk (in December, stunning. Forests with every last twig totally glazed with ice, sparkling with a billion prismatic rainbows in the sunshine). Now I can complete the trip!
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
I am sorry, that should be: Recent figures suggest that in the UK, 55% of men earn more than their partner, with a further 25% earning approximately the same.
Such an oppressed majority.
strange gods before me ॐsays
So you say; but I’m unconvinced that the racism or sexism that does exist is actually stronger than conscious and unconscious, formal and informal affirmative action.
You keep saying this, but we have evidence and you do not.
Yes, well, this does not necessarily have much to do with racial discrimination, as you yourself have noticed in the past. Perhaps the legacy of historical racism is enough to account for these economic disparities.
In fact this is so easy that I can just link again to the same evidence. This is modern, current racist discrimination which creates economic disparity right now.
I think I have successfully argued several times over that sexism against men can be just as blatant and harmful.
Patriarchy hurts men too, but it’s not “just as harmful,” no.
Where’s the equivalent institutional sexism against men? Where’s the equivalent of all those lost wages and passed-over promotions? For the average person in Western society, their personal economics are the single most influential issue on both freedom and quality of life. And here we are talking about a measurable reduction in freedom and quality of life for nearly every single woman in a nation of millions. Where is the equivalent for men?
Nobody seems to care that in many quarters men are still expected to slave away for minimum wage in a factory, while the wife has to look after mostly sleeping children.
What is this, the 1950s? News, Hyperon. If a husband is working minimum wage, the wife is also working minimum wage and looking after the children, which is tedious unpaid work.
“Nobody seems to care.” And yet here I’ve worn out my shoes rustling voters to increase the minimum wage. For Hyperon, leftists simultaneously do not exist and are the worst people in existence.
Recent figures suggest that in the UK, 20% of women earn more than their partner, with a further 25% earning approximately the same.
So 55% of men earn more than their partner, and this is evidence that women have it better than men?
Now consider that men are overrepresented in grueling manual labour, while women are overrepresented in comparatively easy jobs that hinge upon “communication skills”.
Consider that a large chunk of women are willfully housewives and have no career to speak of.
Meaning they have no economic freedom, and can not simply walk away from a bad relationship like an employed man or woman can. None of the things you present as “obvious” advantages for women turn out to be so obvious on closer inspection.
Maybe if you weren’t a crank, you’d have studied before you opened your ignorant mouth again.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Maybe if you weren’t a crank, you’d have studied before you opened your ignorant mouth again.
Still the unevidenced idjit Hyperon. You have/had nothing cogent to say. Just your paranoia. Which you need to direct to a mental health professional, not us. Bye-bye bigot troll.
Hyperonsays
So for example in the UK today working men make about 17% more per hour than working women.
Why is this necessarily the result of sexism? Doesn’t it enter you head that because men are more competitive and status-driven, we would expect them to earn more? On what basis do you assume that “50:50” is the natural state of affairs?
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Hyperon, what evidence is required for you to acknowledge you are wrong? Lets see how sane and realistic you really are.
Cainesays
Nerd of Redhead, OM @ 40:
Yawn, Hyperon
*Agrees*
*crickets chirring*
Greasemonkey is a beautiful thing.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
Doesn’t it enter you head that because men are more competitive and status-driven, we would expect them to earn more?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Antiochus Epiphanessays
Doesn’t it enter you head that because men are more competitive and status-driven, we would expect them to earn more?
The system that rewards employees displaying these male-typical traits were established by men. If the system were established by women, these male-typical traits would not necessarily be beneficial in advancing your career.
Duh.
nigelTheBoldsays
Doesn’t it enter you head that because men are more competitive and status-driven, we would expect them to earn more?
Do you have a reference for this assertion? Also, by what rationale do you assume “competitive == higher salary”? Shouldn’t salary be based on workload and performance, rather than the personality traits of the worker?
A. Noydsays
Diane G. (#683)
Too bad your virtuosity was wasted in a backwater, but I guess we should hope that that blog remains a backwater.
It’s never wasted if it amuses me and that guy was just so full of himself I couldn’t help it. “Not-unfriendly” advice my ass. He could give lessons in being a sycophant to Stephanie Z, too. I caught a few of his comments on other threads there and if that was my blog, I’d ban him for being such a shameless suck-up. Really. I love how people over here are irreverent towards PZ. I guess it goes with the culture of both giving credit where credit’s due and chewing up and spitting out flagrant idiots. Folks here seem to have a way more accurate sense of everyone’s capabilities and expertise, including their own.
I didn’t really read enough of the other articles over there to judge whether the author is as foolishly blind about anything else besides religion, though. I don’t wish obscurity on authors who aren’t wholly obtuse.
~*~*~*~*~*~
Train stuff!
Some info from a transportation buff friend of mine who is an editor and contributor at Seattle Transit Blog. He recommends this site for helping to get better rail service going in the US and says: “in terms of replacing air travel, you want to start with city pairs that have lots of traffic between them, in ranges of 200-700 miles. 700’s kind of the outside limit for that being time-competitive. These are the corridors the USDOT wants to build. Rocking those is step one to any system.”
strange gods before me ॐsays
Actually, my line of thought was absolutely coherent, and not all that difficult to follow.
Watch your brain break again.
You asserted, without any supporting evidence, that “white people” are “privileged”.
False. Evidence has been given to you dozens of times now. You ignore it all, but this is not my problem.
Twice in the last couple days you’ve been given the résumé callback study, for instance, as it was given to you months ago. You never address it.
I then cited the disparity in the treatment of the BNP and mainstream British Muslims.
Further evidence of your white supremacist tendencies. You are yet again using the BNP as representative of white British people. This might have been a silly mistake the first time, but the pattern is clear. You really do believe that the BNP should legitimately be taken as representative of white people. This is of course exactly what the BNP preaches.
Morally speaking, the views of the Muslims are probably even more worthy of contempt (for instance, between 10% and 20% thought the July bombings were justified; 40% advocate Sharia). The only reason for the clear difference in treatment (for instance, with Nick Griffin being insulted and ridiculed on national television) seems to be that Muslims more often than not have brown skin.
Perhaps the attacks on your vanguard Nick Griffin are because the BNP is an organized political party with seats in the EU parliament, and thus a direct and potent threat to liberty and democracy in the West by parliamentary means as worked for Hitler and Mussolini, a real threat which a few random bombings can never match.
strange gods before me ॐsays
Why is this necessarily the result of sexism? Doesn’t it enter you head that because men are more competitive and status-driven, we would expect them to earn more? On what basis do you assume that “50:50” is the natural state of affairs?
Jesus, Hyperon. Why are you so stupid?
I gave you a link demonstrating unequivocally that sexist discrimination impacts a woman’s ability to seek promotion.
And you ask “well how do you know it’s sexism?”
Read the fucking link!
strange gods before me ॐsays
I don’t have time for this illiterate crank if he’s not even going to read the fucking links. Have fun, folks.
I suggest emailing PZ about another few rounds of Survivor, if that’s what it’s going to take.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Hyperon, still nothing said about the evidence required for you to acknowledge that you are wrong. Your inability to describe said evidence means you are not arguing in good faith, which requires the possibility that you are wrong. Begone troll, begone bigot…
Hyperonsays
Twice in the last couple days you’ve been given the résumé callback study, for instance, as it was given to you months ago. You never address it.
I didn’t see it, and I don’t have time to respond to every rant directed towards me. Link to the study and I will check it out.
You really do believe that the BNP should legitimately be taken as representative of white people. This is of course exactly what the BNP preaches.
Don’t be utterly stupid. I took them (just as I said) as being representative of British people with despicable views, comparable to the views of mainstream Muslims.
Perhaps the attacks on your vanguard Nick Griffin are because the BNP is an organized political party with seats in the EU parliament, and thus a direct and potent threat to liberty and democracy in the West by parliamentary means as worked for Hitler and Mussolini, a real threat which a few random bombings can never match.
The BNP was treated much the same way even before it won seats in the EU parliament. Also there are various arguments that Muslims are at least as much of a threat to liberty and democracy. In fact, compared with Muslims globally (they’re even worse abroad — for instance, 59% of Pakistanis believe in stoning adulterers) the BNP seems positively small potatoes.
Eight percent of the general British public believe in justifiable attacks on civilian targets.
Link to the data you’re interpreting or put a sock in it. Studies have consistently shown that a fraction of about 10% of Muslims unambiguously advocate the bombing of innocent civilians. (For instance, 10% strongly agreed that the July bombings were justified, and a further 10% tended to agree.) I’m not aware that there’s anything comparable to that statistic implicating the general public.
badgersdaughtersays
I just read over the list of Dungeon denizens. Hyperon is Little-League material compared to those players. Man, we had some spectacular fuckwits back then. (Those were the days, heh.) Hyperon is just… tedious.
blfsays
Is there a consensus amongst the regulars regarding eating cephalopods, especially those which appear to have evolved advanced cognitive and behavioral skills?
Yes. They’re tasty.
The problem is the degree to which they are being overfished (which I don’t know), and that is not an issue related to cognitive skills (albeit it’s possible predictable behaviour/habits is involved).
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Hyperon, what evidence is required for you to acknowledge you are wrong? Failure to put it out there means you aren’t interested in a real discussion. That requires the possiblity of you being wrong. So, cough it up so we can demonstrate the facts and get rid of you.
Fried okra! *drool* I’ll have mine extra crispy, please.
If a husband is working minimum wage, the wife is also working minimum wage and looking after the children, which is tedious unpaid work.
And is doing the lion’s share of the housework, which is ditto. Plus, not infrequently, the yardwork as well.
strange gods before me ॐsays
I didn’t see it, and I don’t have time to respond to every rant directed towards me. Link to the study and I will check it out.
I just fucking did, you lazy crank.
(Look at how he complains that he doesn’t have time to read all the evidence that we give him, yet he still complains that we don’t give him any evidence.)
Don’t be utterly stupid. I took them (just as I said) as being representative of British people with despicable views, comparable to the views of mainstream Muslims.
The BNP was treated much the same way even before it won seats in the EU parliament.
Because it was gaining power through party politics. Again, parties like this have actually presented threats to democracy in the West. Muslims have not.
Link to the data you’re interpreting or put a sock in it.
People who dismiss or sneer at curling do not understand true sport.
I’m just saying.
Hyperonsays
I gave you a link demonstrating unequivocally that sexist discrimination impacts a woman’s ability to seek promotion.
The take-home message there seems to be that the risk of negotiating for a woman is greater than the corresponding risk for a man. One possible explanation might be that there are simply more men with high aptitudes (as is indicated by sex differences in IQ). Often employers will be struck by a candidate with exceptionally high aptitude: more often, perhaps, such candidates are men.
Pointing to any observed sex disparity, and thereupon crying sexism, isn’t a very intelligent way of approaching this problem.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Pointing to any observed sex disparity, and thereupon crying sexism, isn’t a very intelligent way of approaching this problem.
It is certainly more intelligent and cogent than your inane, insane and bigoted approach. Now bigot, what evidence is required for you to acknowledge you are wrong? We will present it so you can quit wasting your time here.
Rawnaerissays
So I installed Greasemonkey and the killfile recommended from the last neverending thread. It won’t let me killfile someone if their name is in black. Did I do something wrong?
Paul W.says
Carlie,
Yeah, I’m easy.
Not that I’d ever quote mine anybody, but how’s that crush on me going?
— Paul “Feminist chicks dig me!” W.
strange gods before me ॐsays
So of course you blatantly lie about what the study said.
The take-home message there seems to be that the risk of negotiating for a woman is greater than the corresponding risk for a man. One possible explanation might be that there are simply more men with high aptitudes (as is indicated by sex differences in IQ). Often employers will be struck by a candidate with exceptionally high aptitude: more often, perhaps, such candidates are men.
Pointing to any observed sex disparity, and thereupon crying sexism, isn’t a very intelligent way of approaching this problem.
“Their study found that men and women get very different responses when they initiate negotiations. Although it may well be true that women often hurt themselves by not trying to negotiate, this study found that women’s reluctance was based on an accurate view of how they were likely to be treated if they did. Both men and women were more likely to subtly penalise women who asked for more. The perception was that women who asked for more were “less nice”.
“What we found across all the studies is that men were always less willing to work with a woman who had attempted to negotiate than with a woman who did not,” Bowles said. “They always preferred to work with a woman who stayed mum. But it made no difference to the men whether a guy had chosen to negotiate.”
Subsequent studies used actors who recorded videos of themselves asking for more money or accepting salaries they had been offered. A new group of 285 volunteers were again asked whether they would be willing to work with the candidates after viewing the videos. Men tended to rule against women who negotiated but were less likely to penalise men; women tended to penalise both men and women who negotiated, and preferred applicants who did not ask for more.”
This didn’t have to do with job aptitude; these were actors. This measured sexist attitudes — about women who seem “less nice” — and the behavior that results from those attitudes.
You are a liar and a racist, Hyperon, and I really have better things to do today. Fuck off.
Hyperonsays
I just fucking did, you lazy crank.
I don’t know where the link is, I don’t know what the thread is in which you’re supposed to have supplied this link. I’m not lazy, I’m just not prepared to scrutinize every last post written by people such as yourself, for whom I hold not even the slightest element of intellectual respect.
No, you offered them as representative of white British people, full stop.
Nice tactic there: spamming lots of irrelevant links, hoping that readers will lack the enthusiasm to press on the links and find out that you’re essentially lying.
Stupid, lazy, illiterate, racist, toadlicking crank! I already did!
Again, I followed your links, and it took me to some irrelevant study about the patriotism of Muslims. I encourage everyone else to do the same and press on his links. These kind of deceptive tactics are really no better than outright lying.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
Rawnaeris, if you installed the killfile correctly, you will find [kill][hide comment] at the end of every tagline. Just hit [kill] and every statement by that person will not show up.
Hyperonsays
This didn’t have to do with job aptitude; these were actors.
I didn’t see that part. Much more disturbing than I thought. Still, I’m not going to change my cosmology based on merely a single soft science study. If you have more (relevant) data, I’d gladly examine it.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Still nothing from Hyperidjit on what evidence is required for him to acknowledge he is wrong. That means he is just trolling, and is not discussing rationally, intelligently, and with appropriate respect to the evidence.
Hyperonsays
Still nothing from Hyperidjit on what evidence is required for him to acknowledge he is wrong.
Wrong about what, sexism?
You’d have to show that the current gap in pay, of around 17%, is more than what we’d expect on the basis of the differing standard deviations of men and women’s respective IQ distributions, the higher aggressive competitiveness of men, and the time women take off work due to pregnancy. Maybe a few other factors, but I think those are probably the main ones.
Ring Tailed Lemuriansays
otrame
People who dismiss or sneer at curling do not understand true sport.
I don’t think we’re either dismissing, or sneering, at curling, just joking about it being ‘exciting’ (certainly when compared to something like yesterday’s snowboard cross event, which had me shouting at the TV). Admittedly I might well have sneered at curling when I was young, if I’d ever seen it. Just as I did at bowls, which I now enjoy playing.
Curling can be tense, though. And I love that you can hear the competitors discussing tactics, and what to do next. That makes it (even?) more interesting, and educational.
Bobbersays
Ooooh, translation time again!
I’m not going to change my cosmology based on merely a single soft science study.
Translation: “There were no chemicals or physics involved, so it’s squishy-touchy-feely and therefore not really science, nyah nyah nyah. Also, my fingers are in my ears.”
If you have more (relevant) data, I’d gladly examine it.
Translation: Anything short of a document from the Cabal of Rich White Males stating unequivocally that “We, the CRWM, purposefully and with malice aforethought have determined that discriminatory practices in hiring and establishing wage compensation shall be THE LAW OF THE LAND” will not constitute relevant data.
I’d write more, but I can’t for the fact that my eyes, having rolled so hard and high in their orbits, can now only see my brain.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Wrong about what, sexism?
Nothing cogent there Hyperbigot. You haven’t said anything cogent since you started.
Here’s what you need to convince me you are right. Show that men are under paid compared to woment. Put up or shut up. Show that whites are underpaid compared to minorities. Put up or shut up. Show that it is almost impossible for you to get a job because you are a white male with privelges. Put up or shut up. Until then, you are nothing but lying piece of bigotry.
Owlmirrorsays
while the wife has to look after mostly sleeping children.
Quoted for smarmy disingenuousness.
Very young children do sleep more than 12 hrs/day, but that means 8-12+ hrs solid work in caring for them when they are not sleeping.
By Hyperon’s metric, his own brain is “mostly inactive”.
And he’s definitely “mostly dishonest”.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Blockquote fail #90. Sorry, posting from work, but I think you can figure it out.
AJ Milnesays
People who dismiss or sneer at curling do not understand true sport.
Au contraire… I, for one, have nothing but respect for any sport you can reasonably play without putting down your beer.
(/Softball’s cool with me, too, and for the same reason.)
Bobbersays
Having been a stay-at-home dad for over two years with a new baby, I was a little offended by the “wife has to look after mostly sleeping children” line as well. I’ve worked 12-hour days with special needs kids who often needed to be physically restrained; I’ve pulled office all-nighters getting materials together for the FDA to approve a new glucose meter the company wanted to market; I’ve spent entire days shoveling out barn stalls and digging post holes; and I’ve been a primary care-giver and household manager – and I was pretty much equally exhausted at the end of each day. Yeah, raising kids is SOOOOO easy…
Damn, rolled my eyes too hard again, I’m getting a strain.
Jadehawk, OMsays
referring to a horrible (but ubiquitous and unavoidable) brand of toilet paper called “Bronco” that was seemingly made of greaseproof paper. Shiver. Even just remembering it makes me clench defensively. No wonder we all had skid marks in those days.
around here that’s referred to as John Wayne paper: rough, tough, and doesn’t take shit from anyone
and yeah, I do remember communist toilet paper
Except it’s twice the size of your frying pan
I know some people who would consider that a challenge :-p
—–
Also, Hyperon, fuck off. Your delusions of adequacy are tiresome, and your projections of your own intellectual laziness and bigotry onto the commenters here are disgusting.
Qwertysays
From the daily idiocy that is Conservapedia: an essay on the benefits of conservatism:
“There are significant personal benefits to conservatism. It is particularly powerful and useful in combating:
obesity and other addictions
anxiety and wasting time
deceit and bias
temptation of all kinds
Example:
It is difficult for widows to remarry because there are relatively few single men available beyond age 50. Only 8% of women who become widows between ages 55 and 64 remarry, and only 2% of women who become widows after age 64 remarry.[3] Also, it becomes difficult to remain attractive as one grows older.
But at a small conservative conference in early 2010, an informal survey found a remarriage rate of nearly 100% by the conservative widows in attendance.”
Note to all widowed liberal women over 55: Just switch to conservatism to find that second or third husband.
Tulsesays
There are significant personal benefits to conservatism. It is particularly powerful and useful in combating:
obesity and other addictions
Just ask Rush Limbaugh…
David Marjanovićsays
while the wife has to look after mostly sleeping children.
<headdesk>
Let me guess: you haven’t got any younger siblings, and you don’t remember having ever been younger than 6.
Doesn’t it enter you head that because men are more competitive and status-driven, we would expect them to earn more?
For the same job!?!
These are the corridors the USDOT wants to build.
So it hasn’t been abandoned! :-)
the BNP is an organized political party with seats in the EU parliament, and thus a direct and potent threat to liberty and democracy in the West by parliamentary means as worked for Hitler and Mussolini
Though… their number of MEPs is insignificant, and the EU parliament is, which is unfortunate in many other contexts, practically powerless.
Hyperon is just… tedious.
Caledonian did basically get banned for being tedious, but only after 3 years or so.
A. Noydsays
Rawnaeris (#80)
So I installed Greasemonkey and the killfile recommended from the last neverending thread. It won’t let me killfile someone if their name is in black. Did I do something wrong?
I had the same problem. I think what I did was right click the monkey face at the bottom right and went to User Script Commands > Get latest killfile script. Oh, and then reloaded the page. But I could be mixing up which of the several things I tried finally worked.
~*~*~*~*~*~
Owlmirror (#91)
Very young children do sleep more than 12 hrs/day, but that means 8-12+ hrs solid work in caring for them when they are not sleeping.
A great deal of which takes place at hours adults would rather spend unconscious, too.
Waltonsays
Though… their number of MEPs is insignificant, and the EU parliament is, which is unfortunate in many other contexts, practically powerless.
That’s not actually quite true. It used to be the case, but the Treaties of Maastricht (1992), Amsterdam (1997), Nice (2001) and Lisbon all increased the Parliament’s powers. Its power isn’t comparable to the legislature in a parliamentary system, and it still relies on the unelected Commission to draft legislation and to implement policies, but it isn’t as weak as it once was.
Most legislation is now enacted jointly by the Council of Ministers (consisting of ministers from the Member States) and the Parliament, under the “co-decision” procedure. However, there are still some specialist areas in which legislation can be made only by the Council (in which case unanimity, rather than qualified majority vote, is usually required). The Parliament also approves the annual budget, and is entitled to force the European Commission to resign (which was threatened against the Santer Commission in 1999, who subsequently resigned of their own accord).
Waltonsays
Even just remembering it makes me clench defensively. No wonder we all had skid marks in those days.
Ewwww…. too much information.
David Marjanovićsays
Still, I’m not going to change my cosmology based on merely a single soft science study.
<headdesk>
“Cosmology“? “Soft science“?
You’re trying to rationalize. You’re engaging in wishful thinking. You’re trying to fool yourself with your ridiculous exaggerations.
Have you no intellectual respect for yourself?
around here that’s referred to as John Wayne paper: rough, tough, and doesn’t take shit from anyone
ROTFLMAO!
Qwertysays
Maybe, Tiktaalik would fit in the BigDaddySkillet which is 20 1/2 inches in diameter.
I used to love Goldie Hawn. Why must all of Hollywood be so damn woo-woo?!
maureen.brian#b5c92says
Feynmaniac @ 44,
I thank you for your kind suggestion, but no.
Look, I’m a socialist, a feminist and an optimist but I can recognise a lost cause when I see one. With Hyperbollocks there is no hope. Period.
Anyone who thinks that IQ tests measure anything much beyond the ability to do IQ tests has already had his lobotomy.
I’ve fought and won more than a few battles in the workplace and in the public arena – ‘cos I can be pretty competitive – but at 67* I think I’ll just sit here and daydream of the time when enough of us are both working and adequately rewarded again. Then we can have a whip-round and buy him a sex-change so that he finds out for himself.
* See, Frankie-babe?
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
David, you might as well laugh your ass off! That tp will not get be able to clean it.
Enough of scatological humor from me.
David Marjanovićsays
50 cm? That’s half its total length. Maybe you can curl it up tightly enough, but I doubt it – it has fairly substantial ribs. :-)
nigelTheBoldsays
Why must all of Hollywood be so damn woo-woo?!
Because their entire life depends on make-believe?
maureen.brian#b5c92says
If Dr Shubin would allow we could fillet it and do it rollmop style.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
I used to love Goldie Hawn. Why must all of Hollywood be so damn woo-woo?!
Don’t blame me. I like Jodie Foster.
Hyperonsays
You’re trying to rationalize. You’re engaging in wishful thinking. You’re trying to fool yourself with your ridiculous exaggerations.
I’m not exaggerating anything; I’m just not especially swayed by a single study indicating that women “look worse” when trying to negotiate. The study is suggestive, sure, but it hardly an insurmountable bastion of fact. There are various possible explanations other than discrimination. For example, maybe it is more of a comment on the evolutionary psychology of persuasion. Maybe men are naturally better “salespeople” than women. (Wouldn’t be surprising, since men are also naturally the more unscrupulous.)
Now, I would certainly change my mind if presented with a plethora of information all pointing in the same general direction. As it stands, I think most of the data offered is exceedingly weak.
David Marjanovićsays
David, you might as well laugh your ass off! That tp will not get be able to clean it.
:-D
In case anyone is wondering, communist toilet paper isn’t particularly rough, and it even takes shit, but it’s so hard it rips you a new one in the process. Perfect embodiment of “no pain, no gain [in cleanliness]”.
Hyperonsays
Anyone who thinks that IQ tests measure anything much beyond the ability to do IQ tests has already had his lobotomy.
The Department of Psychology, then, must also be a “lost cause”.
David Marjanovićsays
men are also naturally the more unscrupulous
Is that so?
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
How strange, Not once in my life did I ever think of communist toilet paper. Now I am afraid that tonight I will have nightmares about it.
Oh, shit, the fundies reading about this are going to conflate it with atheist toilet paper!
Ring Tailed Lemuriansays
More on toilet paper – by which I mean, more on the topic of toilet paper :)
In India they have a brand called Love India, which is usually the very last emotion you feel on any occasion that you use it.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
Poor Hyperon! He has an itch in his brain and he can’t get at it.
Kel, OMsays
IQ tests are a pretty self-fulfilling prophecy, all it does is show those who are good at doing IQ tests.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
As it stands, I think most of the data offered is exceedingly weak.
Compared to your total lack of conclusive evidence? Bwahahahahaha. You are such a comedian.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
All this talk of communist TP reminds me that the Redhead’s favorite roommate took a trip to Poland (the roommate’s family was originally from there) circa ’70. The jeans she brought with her proved a major source of local currancy, and the TP had to be used with extreme care to avoid splinters in sensitive areas.
nigelTheBoldsays
Did you know?
– Men are naturally bad at dressing themselves.
– Men cannot dance.
– It is impossible for men to touch their nose with their elbows.
– Men tend to be smarter than women. They also simultaneously tend to be stupider.
– Women evolved a third eye, but it’s in their vagina.
– Men naturally look sillier when naked than women.
– Men are able to fly. By themselves. But they keep getting caught up in high tension lines.
– Plato was a woman.
– Women are far more capable at reproduction than men. They are also far more accomplished at the things that make reproduction fun.
– Men are 48% more likely to assert they are right, even when they are very, very wrong.
Wouldn’t be surprising, since men are also naturally the more unscrupulous.
I know an office full of corporate mid-management level women, as well as a teachers’ lounge where I was the only male to listen to the concerns of a few dozen female coworkers, who would disagree with you.
Waltonsays
Why does everyone think it’s socially acceptable to take about toilet paper on a public forum? Yuk.
maureen.brian#b5c92says
Hyperon, you have a death-wish.
Have you ever been in a university psychology department? The couple of years of it I did at that level was mostly about perception, possibly because the professor was Patrick Meredith, the department was then small and that was his particular interest.
I know you don’t read links – or anything which requires a reading age above 7 – but persons of genuinely inquiring mind might care to check out what’s currently going on at my alma mater – University of Leeds. That’s Leeds, dear, not Leeds Metroploitan.
A multiplicity of degree options at all levels are there for your delectation but no-where do I see a BSc Psychology (IQ Tests).
Now, go and check it out.
Waltonsays
Sorry, “take about” should have read “talk about”. In my defence, I’ve had a bad few days.
Miki Zsays
I must agree with the pro-curling comments above. It is one of the few times that I regret not having television reception.
Jadehawk, OMsays
I’m not sure there’s anything that isn’t socially acceptable to talk about on the Endless Thread…
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Walton, a typo? Just blame it on Rev. BDC’s typo cooties.
On an open thread, anything is fair game. And horror stories of communist consumer goods is certainly fair game.
Ring Tailed Lemuriansays
Hyperon
Yeah, for instance, take white collar crime: the significant majority of offenders are male.
Possibly for the same ‘mysterious’ reason that the majority of crime by coal miners is committed by men.
Then of course there’s psychopaths, which are hugely overrepresented in men.
I suppose you’re going to tell us that’s all the fault of women too, driving poor men crazy?
As you can see, I haven’t got the killfile working yet ;)
Walton
Why does everyone think it’s socially acceptable to take about toilet paper on a public forum? Yuk.
Aw, what a sensitive little thing you are. Personally, I think it’s the perfect topic companion to Hyperon.
Hyperonsays
A multiplicity of degree options at all levels are there for your delectation but no-where do I see a BSc Psychology (IQ Tests).
Yeah, and you can’t find a BSc Physics (Time-dependent perturbation theory), either, for that matter. That doesn’t mean that time-dependent perturbation theory isn’t an indispensable tool.
I’m afraid IQ is bread and butter for psychologists, whether you like it or not. Beyond doubt, it is an extremely potent predictor.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
Walton, do you like the roll to go over or under?
maureen.brian#b5c92says
Hyperon,
I could prove you wrong but I really can’t be bothered.
Bobbersays
Why does everyone think it’s socially acceptable to take about toilet paper on a public forum? Yuk.
We can Bardify the conversation, perhaps, to make it more palatable:
Yea, Lord Walton, thou hast no stomach for the fecund fecal frippery whereby the good citizens hereabouts amuse themselves. What, have you not the stones worthy of the coprolitic grind of your kinsmen?
(I am SO sorry, Mr. Shakespeare, I know that sucked.)
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Beyond doubt, it is an extremely potent predictor.
Yes, of success in taking tests. Period, end of story. Still no evidence fool. What an idjit bore/bigot.
strange gods before me ॐsays
Irrelevant figure 51 of the Gallup Coexist Index 2009: 92% of British public say attacks on civilian targets not justified. That 92 was what I said before; today I thought 100-92=8, but 2% aren’t sure. However the 92% includes ‘never’ and ‘rarely’ -type answers, and I suppose it’s safe that more than 2% said rarely. (In this case replies 1 and 2 are a group, 3 is a group, 4 and 5 are a group. Threes are perhaps imagined the best return on investment.)
Hyperonsays
Still no evidence fool. What an idjit bore/bigot.
If you know nothing about the predictive usefulness of IQ, then check out the Wikipedia entry and follow the given links and references. I’m under no obligation to act as your personal tutor.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
Why do I have the sudden urge to cram a copy of The Mismeasure Of Man in Hyperon’s cranium? And after that, toss out some of the rocks therein to make room for The Mismeasure Of Woman?
Hyperonsays
Strange Gods,
The figures for Muslims are much more extreme. You have 10% of them “strongly agreeing” that the July bombings were justified, with a further 10% of them “tending to agree”. Some of them said they didn’t know. All in the study I linked to in the previous thread.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
Hyperon, only a fool would accept you as a tutor.
Hyperonsays
The Mismeasure Of Man
I like that book, although the section on IQ is notoriously controversial. The business about “reification” was just total nonsense. (All that matters is predictive usefulness — we don’t have to hold IQ represents anything, or is anything other than a helpful predictor.)
nigelTheBoldsays
The figures for Muslims are much more extreme. You have 10% of them “strongly agreeing” that the July bombings were justified, with a further 10% of them “tending to agree”. Some of them said they didn’t know. All in the study I linked to in the previous thread.
Of course, that could be because Muslims are an oppressed minority, and therefore are more likely to think extreme measures are justified.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Yawn, Hyperon, why are you persisting in believing we are interested at all in your bigotry? You are not and will never be an authority to us, as you lack the appropriate evidence. So you are just wasting your time here.
I just read your comment about soft science studies being unconvincing, so I wanted to stop by and apologize for having posted in the past links to articles in peer-reviewed journals about psychological studies, sociological studies, and anthropological studies offering evidence of things like the effects of sexism, racism, and so forth.
Had I realized at the time that you weren’t going to look at them, much less recognize them as showing evidence, I wouldn’t have bothered, and would have saved myself, and you, the time.
Given that you’re not interested in the evidence supplied to you, and given what you said about rape, and given your repeated efforts to seat yourself firmly in the white male Euro-American mind circa 1952, I’m afraid all I have left is a turn of phrase sometimes heard in the geographical region in which I now reside.
It goes a little something like this:
Hyperon, I wouldn’t cross the street to piss on you if you were on fire.
Still learning,
Robert
Hyperonsays
Of course, that could be because Muslims are an oppressed minority, and therefore are more likely to think extreme measures are justified.
Could be. Hypothesis non fingo, and all that.
strange gods before me ॐsays
That is a small minority of the population. 6% of 60 million is more people than even 20% of 3 million. Priorities are smashed like everything else in the hands of a troll. You don’t have Muslim fanatics winning 940,000 votes in Britain, do you?
I’m not lazy…
Again, I followed your links, and it took me to some irrelevant study about the patriotism of Muslims. I encourage everyone else to do the same and press on his links. These kind of deceptive tactics are really no better than outright lying.
Lazy, and now intellectually irresponsible in this accusation.
shonnysays
Did you receive this one from Simon Singh?
If not, please consider signing!
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When persuading your friends remember to tell them:
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on.
That is a small minority of the population. 6% of 60 million is more people than even 20% of 3 million.
I’m still waiting for this data implying that anywhere near close to that percentage of the British public advocate terrorist attacks. I followed the links you gave and was led to a completely immaterial study about Muslim patriotism.
strange gods before me ॐsays
I’m still waiting for this data implying that anywhere near close to that percentage of the British public advocate terrorist attacks. I followed the links you gave and was led to a completely immaterial study about Muslim patriotism.
Not on this topic, but on the topic of sexism. I blithely used the same sort of ad hoc reasoning you use to explain the extremely significant disparity between female and male salaries (and by extension the significant disparity between female and male management).
I’m still not sure what you are trying to prove with these figures, anyway. More Muslims think the bombings were justified. Ok. If you have no hypothesis why they support the bombings, what exactly are you trying to prove?
Hyperonsays
I blithely used the same sort of ad hoc reasoning you use to explain the extremely significant disparity between female and male salaries (and by extension the significant disparity between female and male management).
Well, your reasoning IS ad hoc, because I could point to data from countries in which Muslims are the majority, and are even more out of control. (For instance, 59% of Pakistanis believe in stoning adulterers.)
My hypothesis that there are sometimes significant sex differences between men and women, which might result in differing levels of pay, is not at all ad hoc, and is indeed buttressed by evolutionary psychology.
Kel, OMsays
My hypothesis that there are sometimes significant sex differences between men and women, which might result in differing levels of pay, is not at all ad hoc, and is indeed buttressed by evolutionary psychology.
Now I can see why so many are against evolutionary psychology for its “just so” stories.
nigelTheBoldsays
My hypothesis that there are sometimes significant sex differences between men and women, which might result in differing levels of pay, is not at all ad hoc, and is indeed buttressed by evolutionary psychology.
Cool. Have a link that indicates that women perform poorly on the job due to evolutionary reasons? I’d really like that.
Blake Staceysays
Evolutionary psychology needs buttressing itself before it can lend support to something else.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
My hypothesis bigotry and sexism says that there are sometimes significant sex differences
Fixed it for your Hyperon. You can’t do anything right.
nigelTheBoldsays
Well, your reasoning IS ad hoc, because I could point to data from countries in which Muslims are the majority, and are even more out of control. (For instance, 59% of Pakistanis believe in stoning adulterers.)
Come to think of it, my reasoning isn’t as ad hoc as all that. It’s buttressed by much modern psychology.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Hyperon is reminding me of all the trolls who come by with an idea they think scientists should look at. The one thing they, and Hyperon, needs to do, is to develop the idea, find the conclusive supporting data, and publish it in an appropriate professional journal with peer review. That is how science works. This blog is not the place for the ideas to be developed, and it certainly doesn’t count as published. And we certainly aren’t interested in Hyperon’s inane, insane, and bigoted ideas.
Hyperonsays
Strange Gods,
As you said, I checked out Figure 51 of the Gallup Coexist Index 2009. Your argument simply doesn’t seem very compelling. The question is ambiguous: it asks whether attacks on civilians CAN be justified. Is it asking in the context of recent terrorism, or is it going for something more general and philosophical? If the latter, I would probably myself agree that, in principle, attacks on civilians can be justified. (E.g. I can imagine that some level of strategic bombing might have been necessary in WW2.)
Compare this with a poll in which the wording is less ambiguous. Here we see that 11% of Muslims “strongly agree” that the July bombings were justified. A further 11% tend to agree; 17% “don’t know”.
Owlmirrorsays
Abstract from Blake’s link @#144:
Protein information content resides in rare peptide segments.
Kanduc D.
Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, University of Bari, Italy.
Discovering the informational rule(s) underlying structure-function relationships in the protein language is at the core of biology. Current theories have proven inadequate to explain the origins of biological information such as that found in nucleotide and amino acid sequences; an ‘intelligent design’ is now a popular way to explain the information produced in biological systems. Here, we demonstrate that the information content of an amino acid motif correlates with the motif rarity. A structured analysis of the scientific literature supports the theory that rare pentapeptide words have higher significance than more common pentapeptides in biological cell ‘talk’. This study expands on our previous research showing that the immunological information contained in an amino acid sequence is inversely related to the sequence frequency in the host proteome.
WTF?
Alexsays
idk wats worse, that theres a tiktaalik song, or that i watched the whole thing and enjoyed it.
Paulsays
No idea why people are bothering with Hyperon. He’s never read any source people link, even though he asks for sources. He’s transparently trolling.
Laden’s tried to wash his hands of the whole kerfuffle over the last few days, but I saw a comment by “Lorax” on one of his newer throwaway posts that just epitomizes why he deserved (and still deserves) to be castigated for the bull he pulled.
The thread was regarding a Cthulu-themed search engine. Laden posted a disclaimer, mentioning that he’s reluctant to reference Lovecraft because of implicit and explicit racism in his works. To which, Lorax responds:
If this were a different thread, I would point out that I enjoy HP Lovecraft and truly despise the fact that Greg called me a racist. Oh and he should apologize.
But since its not a different thread, I wont.
This is the result of Laden’s horribly dishonest framing of the situation and slandering of anyone who isn’t himself or a rabid sycophant. It was deliberate, and he should truly be ashamed of himself. In less trivial cases, he seems oblivious to the fact that several commenters over the threads came to the conclusion that SC was an anti-Semite solely based on what Laden said and her feeling the need to defend herself from potential libel even though he claimed he was only referring to what people other than himself might think by those words, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy that he takes no responsibility for aside from a nopology that people might have had hurt feelings.
And that’s not even getting into the situation with Josh/Sven and that whole can of worms…
Oh, in other news apparently Laden’s in the hospital. Condolences.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
Blake Stacy @145: I wasn’t able to read any more than the abstract of that paper; my university doesn’t subscribe to Peptides, and this looks like an advanced online publication. It still doesn’t show up in the primary database that I use, Web of Science. Be that as it may, my limited reading on the topic suggests that this sentence “Current theories have proven inadequate to explain the origins of biological information such as that found in nucleotide and amino acid sequences” of the abstract is far from the consensus. There are several non-wooish theories to explain a non-random origin of the genetic code. If you want a delightful account targeted at an informed layperson, the second chapter of Nick Lane’s book Life Ascending: Ten Great Inventions of Evolution provides a synthesis of theory up to 2009. Two interesting papers from scientific literature are:
Freeland, S.J., and L.D. Hurst. 1998. The genetic code is one in a million. Journal of Molecular Evolution 47(3): 238-248.
Copley, S.D., E. Smith and H.J. Morowitz. 2005. A mechanism for the association of amino acids with codons and the origin of the genetic code. Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, USA 102(12): 4442:4447.
I hope this helps.
Ring Tailed Lemuriansays
One of my daughter’s good friends was murdered in the London July 7th bombings (fucking bastards!), but I can’t bear to hear Hyperon’s opinions on the subject.
I also remember a gang of youths throwing bricks at her and screaming “Fuck off Paki!” when she was 14 months old. (Almost needless to say that there is no Pakistani blood in her). My children still get that sort of thing, 30 years later.
Hyperonsays
No idea why people are bothering with Hyperon. He’s never read any source people link, even though he asks for sources. He’s transparently trolling.
An obvious lie. Several of my posts in this thread have dealt with the sources Strange Gods has referred me to.
Waltonsays
Has Professor Myers seen the article about him on Uncyclopedia?
Paulsays
An obvious lie. Several of my posts in this thread have dealt with the sources Strange Gods has referred me to.
I’ll retract and apologize based on recent evidence (I had not refreshed the thread recently enough). I’ll also note that said evidence was provided previously, with you ignoring it and spouting the same racist BS in this thread until he linked it for you multiple times.
On balance, you’ve still ignored and obfuscated much more than you’ve actually engaged in meaningful dialogue. My confusion as to why people keep bothering is still intact based on your abysmal signal to noise ratio.
Blake Staceysays
Owlmirror (#160):
My thoughts exactly.
Antiochus Epiphanes (#163):
Thanks for the literature pointers. I looked into the origin-of-the-genetic-code area a few years ago, but it’s been plenty long enough for my memory to muddle the details.
I got a copy of the Peptides paper from a colleague with access to an institutional journal subscription. It . . . is less than impressive. Terms like “information” are thrown around rather sloppily, and the biochemistry looks suspect (peptide sequences treated as distinct might actually be equivalent, because the substitutions just swapped one amino acid for another of the same hydrophobicity and general stereochemical character, etc.). Of course, nothing in the paper actually justifies claims about “intelligent design” or “specified complexity”.
badgersdaughtersays
Has Professor Myers seen the article about him on Uncyclopedia?
Hey, somebody has a birthday coming up!
Hyperonsays
On balance, you’ve still ignored and obfuscated much more than you’ve actually engaged in meaningful dialogue.
Rubbish. I’m not obfuscating about anything, and if I have overlooked any links or evidence, just post it again and I’ll check it out.
Blake Staceysays
Oh, yes, the Peptides paper claims that information theorists use “specified complexity” as a measure of information content. They don’t, and they have no reason to. Needless to say, this assertion is not supported by a citation — not even a single footnote.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
I’m not obfuscating about anything,
Bull. Fucking. Shit. You couldn’t write a clear evidenced idea if your life depended on it. You and evidence are strangers. Hence your bigotry and sexism. And still we aren’t interested, other than to get you to go away.
Alan Bsays
Things have certainly changed since the first of an annual series of Olympian Games*, held in 1850 for “every grade of man”. (As in the Athens Olympics, women were not welcome to take part.)
The following lists the 22 events with PRIZE MONEY – highest first prize £5, dropping down to the lowest children’s first prizes of 3 shillings. Sometimes there would be a fun contest to amuse the crowds – for example a wheelbarrow race! (This is for 1867 – the programme of events varied.)
1. Football (not more than 20 on a side).
2. Foot race – 100 yards, for boys under 14 years.
3. Foot race – 60 yards, for boys under 10 years.
4. Foot race 1 mile
5. Running high leap
6. Running long leap
7. Standing long leap
8. Throwing the cricket ball (distance)
9. Foot hurdle race, half-a-mile over 7 hurdles.
10. Foot race 200 yards open to residents of the Parish
11. Tilting at the Ring on horses.
12. Glee singing: each competing party to select its own glee. All competitors will be required to join in singing the ode to the Victor in the Tilting Match immediately after that contest. Copies of the Ode and of the music will be furnished on application.
13 Foot hurdle race, 1 mile over 14 hurdles
14. Foot Race, half-a-mile open to farm labourers living within 7 miles of the Guildhall. N.B. Competitors must satisfy the Judges, either by certificates from their masters, or by such other evidence as may be required, that they are farm labourers.
4 events open only to limestone quarrymen and limeburners in the Parish:
15. Throwing the Hammer.
16. Putting the Stone.
17. Foot race, 400 yards.
18. Throwing the Quoit (distance).
Finally, 4 events open only to pupils at the local National School:
19. Writing (boys).
20. Arithmetic (boys).
21. Knitting (girls).
22. Sewing (girls).
Of all these events, it seems to me that Glee Singing (12) and the school pupils events (19-22) were the only ones where “style” had any bearing.
* Have you been told that the first Modern Olympic or Olympian games were held in Greece in 1896? You were told wrong. In 1994 His Excellency J A Samaranch, President of the International Olympic Committee, ” … came to pay tribute to Dr Brookes who was really the founder of the Modern Olympic Games.”
Where did the President of the IOC come to pay homage to the founder? To Much Wenlock, a small town in Shropshire, England. Old timers on The Thread will remember Much Wenlock from when I rabitted on about the Much Wenlock Limestone Formation and corals reefs on Wenlock Edge.
In June 1881, the Greek newspaper, the Clio, reported that, ‘Dr Brookes, this enthusiastic Philhelline [lover of Greece long before John Revolting] is endeavouring to organise an international Olympian festival to be held in Athens …’
Dr Brookes’ failing health (he was born in 1809) prevented him from further active involvement abroad but Baron Pierre de Coubertin visited Much Wenlock to see what Dr Brooks had achieved and wrote in December 1890 in La Review Athletique, “If the Olympic Games which Modern Greece did not know how to establish again is revived today, it is not to a Greek that one is indebted but to Dr W P Brookes.”
More information about Dr Brookes, the Wenlock Olympian Games and Much Wenlock is available on the internet. e.g.
Women’s Snowboard Cross
Just as in yesterday’s Men’s event, the winner tonight, was clearly the best. The rest of the placings, from qualifying to the Silver were a glorious lottery :) Marvellous mayhem.
Two great boarders who fully deserved their Golds.
A damned good sport, and damned good Sport.
Blake Staceysays
OK, the gist of the “Protein information content” paper is as follows:
The author takes the amino-acid sequence for human calmodulin and breaks it down into five-unit segments (pentapeptides). Each pentapeptide is then looked up in the human proteome (pir.georgetown.edu/pirwww), and the number of matches counted. PubMed is searched for papers mentioning each pentapeptide. Sequences which show up in PubMed as having a “crucial role in biological processes in humans” (author’s words) have, the paper reports, low match counts.
(My hedging in the previous sentence is because I’ve been spot-checking those match counts against the PIR, and my numbers are coming out different, but the paper is so obscurely worded that I can’t tell if I’m searching for exactly the same thing.)
If you fail to see how this represents a challenge for “current theories” about “the origin of biological information”, well, join the club.
Ring Tailed Lemuriansays
Alan B – I think The Wenlock olympian Society will get a bit of official recognition in the London Games (One of my sprogs works for the 2012 Olympic Delivery Authority, and has met them).
In less trivial cases, he seems oblivious to the fact that several commenters over the threads came to the conclusion that SC was an anti-Semite solely based on what Laden said and her feeling the need to defend herself from potential libel even though he claimed he was only referring to what people other than himself might think by those words, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy that he takes no responsibility for aside from a nopology that people might have had hurt feelings.
Yes, that’s the worst part of it. Once the accusation is out there, it takes on a life of its own, and the further people are from the facts of the case the more likely they are to believe it. And the suggestion that in a situation in which people have been wronged that everyone, including the wronged parties, should just get over it and move forward should be abhorrent to anyone with a sense of justice.
Oh, in other news apparently Laden’s in the hospital. Condolences.
I won’t mention that to anyone who already suspects me of being a witch. Ay. Speedy recovery.
***
Re Hyperon, I’ve been feeling guilty about not participating in the smackdown. If only I were Catholic, I could give up dealing with people like that for Lent. I mean, Snorzel says that’s what Lent’s about, and he’s had a Catholic upbringing, so… Now, some Catholics I know might find his Lenten indulgence somewhat odd, but I say, you go, Chad!
Pygmy Lorissays
Wow! So, social sciences are soft (except for IQ based psychology), but evolutionary psychology is real science. I guess you get to pick and choose when you’re a bigot merely interested in a veneer of scientific support for your a prior conclusions.
Alan Bsays
#74 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM said:
… and other people come in accusing the denizens of this blog of being racist.
I wonder if these outsiders would care to define what race is Islam? “Racism” is a much-misused epithet, at the same level IMHO as calling someone “Nazi”.
According to Ibrahim Hooper, CAIR spokesperson:
“Islam is an ideology. It’s not a race.”
Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nigeria are the countries reputed to have the largest number of Muslims in their population. Egypt is the next and the first Arabic country on the list. Arabic countries have a combined population of c. 400 million against a worldwide Islamic population claimed to be in excess of 1 billion.
Having just spent four years in Naples, Italy, we’ll be celebrating Carnevale tonight with Neapolitan Carnevale Lasagna (it has meatballs in it).
Also, the threads are much shorter with Hyperon killfiled.
AJ Milnesays
Has Professor Myers seen the article about him on Uncyclopedia?
Oh. My. That is simply made of win.
Must… Resist… Urge… To… Quote… Spoilers…
(/And… To… Talk… Like… William… Shatner…)
Alan Bsays
#176 Ring Tailed Lemurian
No. I haven’t read that particular book. Many of these local customs go back a long time. The title misses out the great and noble contest of gurning:
Gurning contests are a rural English tradition. They are thought to have originated in 1297 at the Egremont Crab Fair, named after the crab apple, when King Henry III granted the fair a Royal Charter.[1] Crab apples are bitter, and so in celebration of the event, people pulled faces. Gurning was born.
The competitions are held regularly in some villages, with contestants traditionally framing their faces through a horse collar — known as “gurnin’ through a braffin’.”[2] The World Gurning Championship takes place annually at the same crab fair in Egremont, Cumbria.[3] Those with the greatest gurn capabilities are often those with no teeth, as this provides greater room to move the jaw further up. In some cases, the elderly or otherwise toothless can be capable of spectacular gurns covering the entire nose.
Peter Jackman became England’s best-known gurner, winning the world championship four times, beginning in 1998 with a face called the “Bela Lugosi.”[4] He had his teeth removed in 2000 to make his features easier to manoeuvre.
He suffered a sad and tragic end:
Three years later, he died playing golf in Spain when a cliff face collapsed underneath him.[5]
Well, I can take credit for a few parts of it myself. (I’ll leave everyone to figure out which bits I wrote.) :-)
Ring Tailed Lemuriansays
Uncyclopedia… Walton, congrats to you and anyone else involved in the PZM bit. I’m now reading the “intelligent design” link in that article, next I’ll follow the George W Bush link, I think. Still giggling.
David Marjanovićsays
Why does everyone think it’s socially acceptable to take about toilet paper on a public forum? Yuk.
Come on. We’re not talking about shit, we’re talking about toilet paper.
And toilet paper is a basic necessity of life. Everyone needs toilet paper.
<sing chorus=”childish”> Auf dem Donnerbalken
saßen zwei Gestalten
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der dritte,
setzt’ sich in die Mitte,
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der vierte,
und der Balken klirrte,
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der fünfte,
der die Nase rümpfte,
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der sechste,
und der Balken ächzte,
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der siebte,
und der Balken kippte,
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der achte,
und der Balken krachte,
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der neunte,
und die Scheiße schäumte,
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der zehnte,
brachte das ersehnte
Kloooo-paaaa-piiiier!!!1!
</sing>
Translation tomorrow, too tired to do it now. If you’d like to practice your German in the meantime, keep in mind that many of the rhymes are a bit off (especially sechste and ächzte hardly even sound similar).
The really interesting thing about this song, however, is the tune. It’s pentatonic – only five successive tones occur in it –, like Hungarian folk music. It differs from the latter in only two things: it’s in major rather than minor, and the last two notes aren’t among the five tones of the rest of the tune (but then, of course, the last three notes are tacked on and not really part of the tune anyway).
I’ve known this song for about 20 years now, and only noticed that the tune is pentatonic today…
do you like the roll to go over or under?
Which one has the sheet coming off on the right side ( = above the roll)?
Is there a molecular biologist in the house? Seems like peer review was asleep at the wheel again.
Bizarre indeed. I’ll try to find the journal tomorrow; the acknowledgments should be interesting, if I have access to the paper.
Also bizarre that the single author writes “we”. Only the French do that anymore (and then use singular adjectives to refer to themselves, LOL).
Has Professor Myers seen the article about him on Uncyclopedia?
LOL! I especially like the this out.
La Review Athletique
La revue athlétique, I bet?
If you fail to see how this represents a challenge for “current theories” about “the origin of biological information”, well, join the club.
That may be part of the reason why it got published…
Re Hyperon, I’ve been feeling guilty about not participating in the smackdown.
:-D
David Marjanovićsays
Walton has a secret double life! Soon we’ll find out he has layers and layers, like a Jadehawk :o)
Carliesays
OH MY GOD TEACHING ONLINE TAKES SO MUCH TIME, Y’ALL.
Sorry, I just had to get that out. Back to my lecture notes.
tylerofmanymindssays
“The author takes the amino-acid sequence for human calmodulin and breaks it down into five-unit segments (pentapeptides). Each pentapeptide is then looked up in the human proteome (pir.georgetown.edu/pirwww), and the number of matches counted. PubMed is searched for papers mentioning each pentapeptide. Sequences which show up in PubMed as having a “crucial role in biological processes in humans” (author’s words) have, the paper reports, low match counts.”
Most of the recurrences of pentapeptides would be noise, that’s just basic statistics. What he seems to be saying is that five character strings with low frequency in the human proteome are more likely to be biologically significant, which is…trivial. At least from my non-expert perspective.
OurDeadSelvessays
Nigel:
Women evolved a third eye, but it’s in their vagina.
This is simultaneously the most intriguing and the most disgusting thing I’ve heard all day.
Bravo!
Opussays
I was struck by Hyperon’s statement that I’m not going to change my cosmology based on merely a single soft science study.
What Hyperon is really saying is that one of the foundations of his universe is the ‘fact’ that white males are oppressed. He can’t cope with questioning such a basic assumption, hence this demonstrated inability to logically process all of the information he’s been given.
He also probably cannot finish this famous quotation: “There are none so blind. . .”
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
What Hyperon is really saying is that one of the foundations of his universe is the ‘fact’ that white males are oppressed. He can’t cope with questioning such a basic assumption, hence this demonstrated inability to logically process all of the information he’s been given.
Yep, he’s here to preach the gospel according to the idjit bigot. Trouble for him is, we aren’t listening…
Hyperonsays
Wow! So, social sciences are soft (except for IQ based psychology), but evolutionary psychology is real science. I guess you get to pick and choose when you’re a bigot merely interested in a veneer of scientific support for your a prior conclusions.
Sociology is a significant softer subject than psychology, yes. It’s much more difficult to study societies as a whole than common human characteristics, and much more open to ideological biases. Testament to this is the prevalent dogma that any disproportionality between groups is sufficient evidence of discrimination. Perhaps if they were more statistically rigorous they would not fall foul of this elementary fallacy.
Anyway, I’m not saying we can ignore studies in sociology. My point was only that a single study, with unspecified sample size, isn’t very impressive. I need more evidence before I would consider changing my mind.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
I need more evidence before I would consider changing my mind.
Hey fuckwit. You have it totally backwards, like the asshole you are. We don’t have to prove you wrong. You are wrong until your prove yourself right. Welcome to science. Now, you get to show us skeptics with hard core evidence that you are right. And we are very, very, very skeptical of your inane, bigoted and insane claims. So, you had better have some real good evidence. Otherwise, do yourself a favor and shut the fuck up.
Hyperonsays
You are wrong until your prove yourself right.
You apparently don’t understand the concept of a null hypothesis. Based on the evidence I already outlined, my position is, for me, the null hypothesis. To argue that I shouldn’t do this, you need to provide, for starters, an actual argument.
More importantly, this kind of debate is not centered around “proofs”. These questions can be hard to resolve indeed, and there is inevitably a great deal of uncertainty surrounding many issues.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
You apparently don’t understand the concept of a null hypothesis. Based on the evidence I already outlined, my position is, for me, the null hypothesis.
Fuckwit, I am a 30+ year practicing scientist. You don’t tell me anything about the null hypothesis, which is you are full of shit until your prove yourself right. Now, you have to convince this blog you are right with scientific level evidence. Put up or shut the fuck up. Welcome to science. The ball, and evidence, is in your court. Start putting up or just go away.
John Moralessays
Hyperon @194 is amusing; tells Nerd: You apparently don’t understand the concept of a null hypothesis.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
Blake #171: Thank you for that reference. I love the last sentence of the abstract. Reading on…
Hyperonsays
Fuckwit, I am a 30+ year practicing scientist. You don’t tell me anything about the null hypothesis, which is you are full of shit until your prove yourself right.
Yeah, and not a very good scientist, I think. I remember that after being insulted by you continually, and relentlessly accused of ignorance of science, I asked you an elementary question about electric fields. As I predicted, you were utterly unable to answer.
I couldn’t give a brachiating fuck about you or your qualifications and credentials. You’re only as good as your arguments and ideas — and you don’t have any. There’s no dearth of people out there who are high on experience and low on aptitude. You almost infallibly deal nothing but the most repetitive and unimaginative series of insults to be found on this blog, and you never have content to add to the ongoing discussion. I think that is more of a reflection on you than anything you put on your CV.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Yeah, and not a very good scientist, I think.
It doesn’t matter what you think. You are a blinking idjit, whose opinion we just simply don’t care about. and you and we know it. If you can’t support your premise, the option of shutting the fuck up us always open to you. We, and I mean we collectively, have been telling you that for ages.
I couldn’t give a brachiating fuck about you or your qualifications and credentials.
We don’t give a flying fuck for you inane, insane, and bigoted ideas. But you have to try to shovel them down our throats like the idjit you are. What part of we are tired of you don’t you comprehend? You have nothing to offer if you don’t have evidence. So, put up or shut the fuck up.
Hyperonsays
What Hyperon is really saying is that one of the foundations of his universe is the ‘fact’ that white males are oppressed. He can’t cope with questioning such a basic assumption, hence this demonstrated inability to logically process all of the information he’s been given.
You’re reading too deeply into it. I just thought it was a quaint choice of words. But yes, to me it is indeed a pretty basic assumption. I don’t remember encountering any significant examples of sexism against women. I do remember my dad having to slave away in a factory for close to minimum wage; and I do remember hearing lots of stories about women marrying for money they haven’t earned; and I do observe that Amnesty International has a campaign to stop violence against specifically women, despite that men are always more likely to be targets of unprovoked violence. I also can’t help noticing that almost nobody seems to care.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
I just thought it was a quaint choice of words. But yes, to me it is indeed a pretty basic assumption.
Yep, the basic assumptions and words of a bigot. If you don’t like being called out as a bigot, you can go elsewhere. The ball is in your court. I, and almost all the regulars, strongly suggest you take a permanent leave of absence from here.
Jadehawk, OMsays
despite that men are always more likely to be targets of unprovoked violence
oh, I want to see a big, fat citation for that one.
'Tis Himself, OMsays
Three years later, he died playing golf in Spain when a cliff face collapsed underneath him.
That’s what happens when you hit your ball into the rough.
David M. @ 185: Also bizarre that the single author writes “we”.
Perhaps, anent the less disgusting of two recurring primate-related subjects on this thread, he has a turd in his pocket.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
I don’t remember encountering any significant examples of sexism against women. I do remember my dad having to slave away in a factory for close to minimum wage; and I do remember hearing lots of stories about women marrying for money they haven’t earned; and I do observe that Amnesty International has a campaign to stop violence against specifically women, despite that men are always more likely to be targets of unprovoked violence. I also can’t help noticing that almost nobody seems to care.
*blink* *blink*
…
Wait. I get it.
You were raised by the Amazons on Paradise Island. That must have been tough, man.
Pygmy Lorissays
I don’t remember encountering any significant examples of sexism against women.
Virtually everything this fuckwit writes is sexism against women.
An example of sexism against women I recently encountered on the internet:
I do remember hearing lots of stories about women marrying for money they haven’t earned;
You heard stories?! Wow, how fucking convincing you incredible hypocrite.
Another example:
Somehow I don’t think the temporary inconvenience of being raped by your boyfriend can compare with being pounced on by thugs (for no reason at all), who proceed to beat you within one inch of your life, breaking various bones, and knocking your teeth out in the process. Didn’t happen to me, but it happened to someone I know, and occurs in the north of England on a daily basis. Always to men (it isn’t “macho” for these thugs to assault women).
Of course, women are never subjected to violence. Partner abuse must also only affect men. Women are never beaten by men. All female domestic violence victims are making it up.
Psychology is comparable to sociology in terms of rigorousness of the science. That you don’t seem to understand that is a sign of your feeble mind, not a failing of sociology.
You’re an outright sexist, who, for some reason, needs to believe that he is oppressed by women and minorities. This is simply not true. Asshole.
Brownian, OMsays
Another example:
Somehow I don’t think the temporary inconvenience of being raped by your boyfriend can compare with being pounced on by thugs (for no reason at all), who proceed to beat you within one inch of your life, breaking various bones, and knocking your teeth out in the process. Didn’t happen to me, but it happened to someone I know, and occurs in the north of England on a daily basis. Always to men (it isn’t “macho” for these thugs to assault women).
Oh, Hyperon thinks he’s beset upon by thugs everywhere. He called me one once, and I haven’t broken a single one of his teeth.
The poor little brat’s too scared of the Arab boogeyman that might be hiding under his bed to give a shit about anyone but himself or people in anecdotes near enough to him that he can fancy himself persecuted. Next we’ll hear that mean ol’ female teachers taking away poor white 7-year-old boys’ security blankies is the biggest social problem in England right now though nobody ever talks about it (proof of the hidden darkie gynocracy.) Of course, it didn’t happen to him, but to a close friend of his…
Pygmy Lorissays
Brownian, OM,
Next we’ll hear that mean ol’ female teachers taking away poor white 7-year-old boys’ security blankies is the biggest social problem in England right now though nobody ever talks about it (proof of the hidden darkie gynocracy.)
You owe me a new laptop! hidden darkie gynocracy I’m still laughing.
Pygmy Lorissays
Is it just me or do some of the male figure skaters look bored during their routines?
strange gods before me ॐsays
It’s cool to look bored. But they’re really excited that they’re at the Olympics.
strange gods before me ॐsays
Still #147, irresponsible, crankish.
Brownian, OMsays
Still #147, irresponsible, crankish.
Don’t forget terrified. Why, look at the poor boy; he’s positively shaking.
Don’t worry dear boy, mommy will be by to tuck you in and she’ll shut the curtains on those nasty Muslims, now won’t she? Yes she will, because she loves her little boy with skin so white, even if the rest of that mean, nasty ol’ world is just waiting with its nasty turbans and its menacing labia to call her little snookums nasty words like ‘sexist’ and ‘racist’.
Owlmirrorsays
even if the rest of that mean, nasty ol’ world is just waiting with […] menacing labia
So, Hyperon, that I know a woman who was punched in the face and stabbed repeatedly with a screwdriver by a guy who decided–for no reason at all–to rape her, does that count in your book as a crime equal to those men suffer?
Somehow, I doubt it, you disgusting piece of filth.
PZ, this misogynistic, racist, fascist creep has got to go. That remark implying that rape is lesser than a guy getting beaten up–it’s way too far over the line.
Miki Zsays
The Haitian adoption furor having temporarily subsided, some news investigations are looking into more “orphan” adoptions from other countries. Here’s CBS News on Ethiopia.
Silisays
Walton, do you like the roll to go over or under?
Over.
Death to the underers!
(Deeeeeep riiiiiifts)
Rorschachsays
Funny Uncyclopedia article !
nitpick :
in 2007, Myers attracted some controversy when he stuck a rusty nail through a Catholic communion wafer,
I know time seems to fly when you have no social life and spend all day and night on the toobs for years, but that was 2008 :-)
he became moderately popular on the internet after making his blog, Pharyngula. Named after the sound atheists make when they consume infants
:D
Jadehawk, OMsays
(Deeeeeep riiiiiifts)
*cough*
toilet paper + deep “rifts” = not where I wanted my mind to go just before going to sleep.
Alan Bsays
#185 David Marjanović
La revue athlétique, I bet?
Do the French not use capital letters in proper names, like reviews, journals?
I was quoting exactly what was said in the information before me. Perhaps I could have put sic to show that.
AJ Milnesays
Well, I can take credit for a few parts of it myself…
Hee hee. Awesome.
I spend a bit of time browsing this thing again yestereve, after reading that… Favourite bit I think so far (and oh so topical) was on the winter Olympics: ‘25% of the “sports” involve putting on a helmet and falling downhill for awhile… Medals for these events are sent to the widows and widowers of the competitors…’ And see also the quote from ‘Everyone from Ecuador’…
Speaking of, raves in this thread are starting to make me feel a bit silly that somehow, I’ve seen almost none of the events as yet…
Now, in my defense, part of the reason is I’ve actually been doing some of those sports during the time I might otherwise have been watching them, and I rather more like doing them than watching them.
Anyway, my point is, I might have to make a point, after all, seein’ as it does sound like it’s been real…
(/Tho’ as this may involve actually entering the same room as my wife, who’s been monopolizing the PVR and the couch in front of it, as late, I dunno… Umm… You can watch these online, somewhere, too, right?)
Rorschachsays
/depressed mode
Tho’ as this may involve actually entering the same room as my wife, who’s been monopolizing the PVR and the couch in front of it, as late, I dunno… Umm… You can watch these online, somewhere, too, right?)
I have a slight suspicion that there might be an inverse relation between length of time spent on Pharyngula and duration of meatspace relationships…:-)
Or maybe it’s just that if you spend most of your time here, you’re already doing that because you’d rather not spend time with your partner…
Of course this comment is purely speculative and does not refer to any actual posters here, myself included ! ( too late for me LOL, that ship has sailed)
/end depressed mode
Waltonsays
Of course this comment is purely speculative and does not refer to any actual posters here, myself included ! ( too late for me LOL, that ship has sailed)
For me, the ship sunk before it even left the harbour. :-(
Bride of Shrek OMsays
Rorschach
Or maybe it’s just that if you spend most of your time here, you’re already doing that because you’d rather not spend time with your partner…
ha ha ha ha ha. Got it in one.
Bride of Shrek OMsays
God I sound like a cynical bitch ( probably cause I am one)but really, just prior to separation I can tell you it was soooo much more fun here than in meatspace.
Of course now I’m a single bird , I’m just here to pick up blokes.;-)
Waltonsays
Hyperon is wrong. But I don’t think he should be banned.
I would only ever advocate the use of the banhammer for those who are spamming threads, copying the same post over and over, and making it impossible to have a conversation. The only examples I can think of are M*bus and “Global Warming is a Scam” (not counting the various spambots who litter old threads with links to furniture sites and the like).
I don’t think a person should necessarily be banned for having offensive views, as long as he or she is (a) saying something which, at minimum, is comprehensible and possible to argue with; (b) actually responding to criticisms; and (c) not spamming multiple threads with identical crap. Hyperon meets these minimal criteria. So, admittedly, did a number of other people who have been banned, such as Piltdown Man; but, as is well known, I was opposed to the banning of Piltdown.
boygeniussays
Lynna @ the previous Thread TM,
Thank you for the lead. I sent you an email w/my contact info. Please forward to your project manager. I love doing custom cabinet and furniture projects. Soo much less boring than the standard finish carpentry drudgery I find myself doing these days.
Rorschachsays
ha ha ha ha ha. Got it in one.
I swear I wasn’t talking about you, I wouldn’t know !! The comment was rather, shall we say, autobiographic…:-)
Of course now I’m a single bird , I’m just here to pick up blokes.;-)
You seem to have a fan already, on the “Coordinating” thread LOL !
boygeniussays
Of course now I’m a single bird , I’m just here to pick up blokes.;-)
Hey, baby, come here often?
What’s a nice girl like you doing in a place like this?
Bride of Shrek OMsays
What’s a nice girl like you doing in a place like this?
.Respectful Insolence wouldn’t have me.
boygeniussays
Orac’s loss is my gain. ;-)
Rorschachsays
Orac’s loss is my gain. ;-)
Jebus, boygenius, what do you think this place is, one big f’ing Woodstock ???
;)
Miki Zsays
Here’s one big f’ing Woodstock. Just look at that pecker.
boygeniussays
…what do you think this place is, one big f’ing Woodstock ???
It’s all Ichthyic’s fault. He finds romance here and now everyone’s hoping they’ll get lucky.
Rorschachsays
It’s all Ichthyic’s fault
On that I agree ! Let’s just blame it all on him..:-)
He finds romance here and now everyone’s hoping they’ll get lucky.
As long as they don’t stop showing Law&Order reruns on Foxtel, I be fine thanks.
The whole romance thing was made up by Hollywood to make you watch “Titanic” and “Gone with the Wind”, anyway.
AJ Milnesays
Well, I’d just like to say I am not using Pharyngula to avoid my marriage…
I use Pharyngula to avoid my work. My marriage, I avoid by going boarding…
It’s a professional thing, see? You don’t mix business with pleasure…
… or with misery, for that matter. My point is, the principle’s the same…
Kidding. Sort of… Or, better still, think of it as sorta like an online version of a Louis C.K. ‘things that suck about my marriage’ routine…
(/And all of us let’s please not try to dwell too long on the fact that, shortly after doing that material, Louis did, in fact, get divorced.)
John Moralessays
Walton,
[…] but, as is well known, I was opposed to the banning of Piltdown.
Yeah, well, it wasn’t you who SIWOTId the Piltdown.
(PS Who was “bronze age man”?)
David Marjanovićsays
<sing chorus=”childish”>
Oh for crying out loud. That should have been “choir”, not “chorus”. Can’t get my basic HTML tags right. When will I learn to just cut off and go to bed…
llewellysays
Miki Z | February 17, 2010 6:02 AM:
Here’s one big f’ing Woodstock. Just look at that pecker.
From the link:
His Bright Yellow Head is 4.5” Long
You know … I never thought I was “well-endowed”, but if that’s “big”, mine is f’ing enormous.
Man oh man, does ScienceBlogs need to implement comment threading.
Okay, so if you wanted to read the Peptides paper for yourself but don’t have access, you might do well to click here, but you didn’t hear it from me.
Alan Bsays
#225 Bride of Shrek
Of course now I’m a single bird , I’m just here to pick up blokes.;-)
Put me down Madam/Miss/Ms! I’m already spoken for. I’m a happily married man!
HELP
[Ed. I’d put Alan B down if I were you.
1) You don’t know where he’s been.
2) You’ll do your back in.
3) Have you seen Mrs Alan B? She can be red in tooth and claw when riled!!]
Thanks, Ed. I can look after myself (I think).
Alan Bsays
#213 Owlmirror
(I have no idea if these are safe for work or not… )
I think that probably depends where you work! I can think of one or two workplaces where you might …
Carliesays
Huzzah, finally got caught up with my work and could get caught up with the Thread.
Not that I’d ever quote mine anybody, but how’s that crush on me going?
Fantastic, and I have to invite Ring Tailed Lemurian to the next garter convention, and David’s brain is still pretty cool, and I’m still swooning from Antiochus’ homeschool poster takedown, and…
Oh my god. I AM easy.
Also glad for once that I was too busy to keep up with the thread – I unkilled Hyperon just to see what everyone was talking about, and oy. I’m glad I wasn’t in the middle of that.
And toilet paper goes OVER unless you are an uncouth heathen. My dream in life is to someday afford a Washlet. Now is the time I mourn, because I would link to the cutest, most bizzare website about toilets in the world, but TOTO took it down for some unfathomable reason. They used to have an entire site devoted to the washlet with the slogan “Clean is happy”, that started out with pictures of bottoms with smiley faces on them and then got weirder, to the point of having a guy wax rhapsodic about the toilet seat with more technology than your computer, but now the url just redirects to the TOTO homepage. Losers.
Just to be sure I wasn’t hallucinating, I went looking and found reference to it, also here, including a contested billboard featuring said smiley bottoms.
Usagichansays
Carlie @ 244
As with many Japanese apartments, ours comes with washlet as standard (complete with a wall panel of controls that would not look out of place on a Star Trek set) – and they are great – although I am wary of touching too many of the controls. My Japanese is not that good and I worry one of them is for ‘Steam cleaning’ or something.
Miki Zsays
Japan has very particular ideas about western toilets (some public places and older homes have squat toilets, the sit down types are either called “western” or “handicapped”, depending on venue.)
Ours is manufactured by INAX, and includes:
bottom-wash
bidet (these two differ in their angle/origination)
heated seat
heated water for bottom-wash/bidet
automatic deodorizer
‘whirlpool’ flushing system (water shoots around the rim, not down)
Everything which can be heated has a temperature control, everything which squirts has direction control, pulse control, and motion control.
Some people get the optional feature that makes noises to camouflage peeing, but that’s just silly. Getting the blow-dry option is just showing out.
Around 0% are prepared to disavow homophobia, compared with 58% of the general public.
Wrong; you misrepresented your own data source.
The question was: “….you PERSONALLY BELIEVE that it is MORALLY acceptable or MORALLY wrong? Homosexual acts…0%”
(Caps from Gallup, ref: page 31)
Hardly the definition of homophobia, which is the “fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men”.
Interestingly only 3% of UK Muslims thought it was morally acceptable to there being sex between unmarried men and women, which would explain their conservative views.
I point out that that in France the view is somewhat loosened for morally acceptable to 35% homosexual acts, and 48% sex between unmarried. So, any suggestion on your part for “Muslims in general” is gone
I was prepared to try and give you a little help here, but you cannot fairly represent your own data sources. Would be fun to prove “group think” here, but I have failed. They are right using all of the negative descriptions that have been directed at you. BYE BYE
Posted by: Hyperon Author Profile Page | February 16, 2010 11:43 AM
From the previous thread:
Wrong; you misrepresented your own data source.
People were asked if they find homosexuality “morally acceptable” or “morally unacceptable. (Those were the only two options presented.) 0% of Muslims said “morally acceptable”, compared with 58% of the general British public. My characterization that 0% of British Muslims were willing to disavow homophobia seems pretty fair and accurate. Anyway, I linked to the study so people could decide for themselves. Whatever apologetics you try to spin, you can’t get around the fact that a 58% disparity between Muslims and the general public is very, very disturbing.
Please discuss how 1/ Morally acceptable equates with homophobia 2/ How the response of Hyperon relates to question one.
Matt Penfoldsays
I have just read Greg Laden’s blog.
So which one of you was it that kneecapped him ? :)
Sven DiMilosays
It was me. I had my boyfriend and his cousin do it so the fucker couldn’t beat me in the Short Program.
Sven DiMilosays
…
the reference, for the too-young and/or not-yet-caffeinated
nigelTheBoldsays
But yes, to me it is indeed a pretty basic assumption. I don’t remember encountering any significant examples of sexism against women.
I believe we’ve presented several instances of sexism against women — totaling a difference of 17% in pay for equivalent jobs, and 30%+ difference in management.
“Evolutionary psychology” (which is what you retreated to) does not have the same ontological standing as psychology, or even sociology. Good show with your attempt to conflate it with regular ol’ psychology, though.
Now, given that you have even admitted that sexism has been a problem, the problem of sexism is a given. Your assertion is that sexism no longer exists, or at least is no longer statistically relevant. So, we have something with great ontological standing (sexism) against a “null hypothesis” based on evolutionary psychology (for which you still have not provided references), which has far less ontological standing.
Hm. I wonder why we don’t tend to accept your “null hypothesis?”
I do remember my dad having to slave away in a factory for close to minimum wage; and I do remember hearing lots of stories about women marrying for money they haven’t earned . . .
“Haven’t earned.” How utterly chauvinistic of you. What does it take to “earn” money? What about the fact that males tend to inherit money in greater quantity than females? That is money they didn’t earn. I had an uncle that married above his station (as they used to say). A friend of mine was engaged to the daughter of the CEO of Smirnoff. He was an auto mechanic. Neither of them earned the money she had.
I’m struggling to find the problem with women marrying men with more money, or men marrying women with more money. Should people only marry those of similar economic means?
. . . and I do observe that Amnesty International has a campaign to stop violence against specifically women, despite that men are always more likely to be targets of unprovoked violence. I also can’t help noticing that almost nobody seems to care.
Uhm… in general, rape is psychologically more devestating than a white male getting beat up by other white males. And considering that rape happens far more often (at least an order of magnitude more often) than the violence you mentioned — I think rape is the bigger problem.
Nice collection of anecdotes used to support your hypothesis, though. I’m sure that’ll fly in any scientific journal.
By the way, my wife was wondering: have you perhaps recently gone through a terrible break-up of some sort? A divorce in which your ex took most of your possessions? Or perhaps you were recently dumped by a significant other?
She was just wondering. The symptoms you exhibit are very much like the standard misogynistic phase many males go through after a terrible breakup.
triskelethecatsays
@Carlie (#244): I have to disagree. With a Siamese cat in the house, the paper rolls UNDER, unless I want to pick up shreds of it from all over. He seems to think it’s his bound duty to put as many holes in the roll as possible (at least…when he won’t get caught doing it. He knows better than to let me see him!) With the paper going over, he seems to find it much easier to find the end and drag it all over. It’s amazing how far a roll of toilet paper will go when dragged by a cat! At least, if it rolls under, it seems to tear off before he can get into the living room.
Alan Bsays
#252 triskelethecat
In England, it is generally accepted that cute little puppies do a better job (if you’ll pardon the expression).
nigelTheBoldsays
triskelethecat,
Our WC is very small, so after our last renovation, The Lovely Wife & I hung the bog roll vertically, to save knee-room around the commode. It had the added benefit of deterring the cats from doing exactly as you mentioned. We had the added joy of the dogs, who would play with the tissue scraps and dragged them sogged-up all around the house.
BTW: your nick wouldn’t be a play on Triskele the dog from Shadow of the Torturer, would it?
triskelethecatsays
@NigeltheBold: yes, you are correct. My husband, who has a warped sense of humor, named our first Siamese cat from the book. It’s hard to explain that your cat is named for a 3-legged, 1-eyed dog….
But, when we had to put him to sleep, I took his name for some of the internet sites I frequent.
Carliesays
Never thought of the cat problem – our cat was never interested in unrolling the toilet paper. Toddlers, on the other hand…
Sven – did you see in the news that Nancy’s brother killed her dad a couple of weeks ago? This has been a really bizarre month in crimes.
Paul W.says
Matt Penfold:
I have just read Greg Laden’s blog.
So which one of you was it that kneecapped him?
Far be it from me to say such a thing, and I don’t think it’s true, but SC has given objective people cause to wonder about her serious Greg issues, such that casual readers of the trainwreck thread might reasonably and objectively conclude that it was her.
I don’t think she’d do such a thing, but some objective people have pointed out that she’s the biggest bitch on the Internets, and really do have to wonder. Just sayin’.
Man oh man, does ScienceBlogs need to implement comment threading.
I know your handle is direct evidence of the evilness of the SB gods, but I refuse to believe that they could be that evil. ;)
Seriously, threaded comment systems suck. For one thing, it’s harder to catch up with a thread because you can’t simply go to the number of the last comment you remember reading and read from there to the bottom, you have to look for new comments all over the whole damn page. Just imagine if The Thread was like that… *shudder*
Okay, so if you wanted to read the Peptides paper for yourself but don’t have access, you might do well to click here
Thanks! I don’t have time now, but I’ll probably read it later today. :)
SC OMsays
but some objective people have pointed out that she’s the biggest bitch on the Internets
Ahem. Greatest Bitch in the Internet. Greatest. I’m the Muhammad Ali of internet bitchitude.
if only I was OG enuff to give one to a certain ‘thug’ I know
Lynna, OMsays
I have a lot of catching up to do on the endless thread! My fellow Pharyguloids have been busy.
Yesterday I had the Carotid Duplex test which was ordered by my doctor after I experienced a brain-offline event on January 15th. My fellow Pharynguloids, thank you for the funds for this test, an unexpectedly sensual experience.
The test, which is an ultrasound examination of blood flow to the brain, took a lot longer than I expected. For about fifteen minutes per side, the technician ran the ultrasound over my neck, up to the jawline, and up to my ear, pausing at one point to tap lightly near the base of my ear with the wand recording the taps.
Pharyngulettes and gay gentlemen of Pharyngula, your empathetic attention please: Blake (yep, that’s his name) was, I swear to the FSM, tall, dark and handsome. And did I say well-muscled? So this Registered Cardio Sonographer lay his fine forearm between my breasts (to steady his hand) while he probed my lubricated neck with a round-tipped wand about the size of (insert Josh, Official SpokesGay’s imaginative description here).
Occasionally, Blake would turn on the sound and I would think of ‘Tis Himself. (No, not in that way!) The sound reminded me of an old movie soundtrack from scenes shot in the engine room of a ship. When the exam was over, I saw a bit of the wave form that was the visual recording of the sound. Looked like a lot of regular, pulsating blood flow to me, but what do I know?
I asked if I could have a digital copy of the test. Blake was surprised by the request, but said he would send me a CD. If any of the images can be formatted for presentation on the web, I’ll put them up on my blog. My carotid arteries will be revealed in all their glory.
It’ll be a couple of days before I have results. First, a cardio specialist trained to read the ultrasound(s) will write a summary for my doctor, then my doctor will presumably call me in to hear the news.
It’ll also be a couple of days before I get a CD from Blake. In the meantime, I’m not dead yet.
Sven DiMilosays
If any of the images can be formatted for presentation on the web, I’ll put them up on my blog.
That would be cool!
I have my daughter’s karyotype someplace and you’ve inspired me to find & post that.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
In the meantime, I’m not dead yet.
Good news to start the day with. I’ve seen that test done on House. Interesting.
Lynna, OMsays
Is the mormon church laundering money again?
“The project’s cost (of reportedly over US$2 billion, excluding the planned City Creek condominium tower) raises questions of whether this isn’t a money laundering operation. For comparison, world’s tallest completed building by roof the Shanghai World Financial Center’s construction was valued at US$ 1.2 billion for 377,300 m2. The 818 m (2,684 ft) tall Burj Dubai project has an estimated cost of US$ 4 billion for 334,000 m2, against the 81,000 m2 of the mall (3 story high in most of it’s elevation). Another comparison, The Time Warner Center in New York (where property values are considerably higher, than the Salt Lake downtown area) was estimated to have a market value of US$1.1 billion in 2006[7], for it’s 260,000 m² (2.8 million ft²).” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Creek_Center
As ex-mormon, Jesus Smith, puts it:
The debt/area ratios are:
Shanghai – 5305
Dubai – 11,976
Time W. – 3846
Morg-CCM -24,691
Paul W.says
Sven,
Paul, that’s so sweet!
Yeah, I gave my wife one of those. She finds it very romantic when I’m linguistic in her vernacular.
Lynna, OMsays
I have my daughter’s karyotype someplace and you’ve inspired me to find & post that.
Which reminds me, we still do not have access to scans of David M.’s brain.
badgersdaughtersays
…when I’m linguistic in her vernacular….
*cough*
Miki Zsays
Pharyngulettes and gay gentlemen of Pharyngula, your empathetic attention please: Blake (yep, that’s his name) was, I swear to the FSM, tall, dark and handsome.
My wife’s appreciation of tall, dark, and handsome men is second only to her appreciation of short, pasty, and homely ones. She reminds me of this every time that we watch Blair Underwood and assures me that White Chocolate is tasty too.
Paul W.says
badgersdaughter:
…when I’m linguistic in her vernacular….
*cough*
Coughing rather spoils the mood, in my experience.
Daniasays
Lynna, glad to hear that your Carotid Duplex test was, after all, sort of a… pleasant experience. ;)
And thanks for keeping us posted.
Lynna, OMsays
Miki Z @270, I have to admit that my tastes in men are, shall we say, broad. I agree with your wife that short, pasty and homely can be charming.
For a relationship lasting beyond the half an hour it takes to examine my carotid arteries, I put brains and the wit to use them above tall, dark, and handsome any day. But … no harm in enjoying tall, dark, and handsome when it presses against you.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
Ahem. Greatest Bitch in the Internet. Greatest. I’m the Muhammad Ali of internet bitchitude.
Why do you think I gave up my title of Vile Bitch? I just cannot compete with you!
I am not sure if I should be excited by seeing Lynna’s carotid arteries. I have not run across that kink before. Here ts to hoping it is treatable.
nigelTheBoldsays
@Lynna,
Your description had me kinda titillated, and I’m not gay.
Of course, my boyfriend is.
Lynna, OMsays
I really don’t have much in the way of toilet paper stories to add to the earlier portion of this thread. My most memorable toilet paper experience relates to running out of the stuff while backpacking with my brothers in the Wildhorse Lake area of the Pioneer Mountains. My brother, Steve, kindly offered to sell me toilet paper at the bargain cost of $5 per square.
Daniasays
Which reminds me, we still do not have access to scans of David M.’s brain.
You know, after seeing that picture of him over at Tet Zoo I think I’d be much more interested in an eye close-up. Though I’m afraid it may not be safe to look so closely…
Lynna, OMsays
Hyperoff @41
Nobody seems to care that in many quarters men are still expected to slave away for minimum wage in a factory, while the wife has to look after mostly sleeping children.
Well, I see Hyper off-base has been well and truly denounced and trounced for that bit of idiocy, but I cannot help but add: What the freaking fuck!?
I remember my child-rearing days. And I remember being so freaking tired that I forgot where I’d last put the baby. I still have nightmares about misplacing the baby. Luckily, babies do not sleep all the time, so they’re likely to let you noisily know where you last left them.
Karen Jamessays
Dania, it’s me, https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnhDwuNUQSyq2gYDMnhTU69GIrU70lZE1M, but now I’ve switched to a movable type account. WTF w/ the Google login? Anyways, what about a hybrid comment system where you can switch between threaded and chronological views? It was a real pain scanning through so many comments just trying to find the ones that related to the Peptides paper. It would have been nice if they had been clumpable by topic.
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
Pharyngulettes and gay gentlemen of Pharyngula, your empathetic attention please: Blake (yep, that’s his name) was, I swear to the FSM, tall, dark and handsome. And did I say well-muscled?
But is he rugged and nerdy?
David Marjanovićsays
We briefly interrupt for our irregularly scheduled Toothy Goodness for Jadehawk series. Do read all the way to the end of the article.
And while I’m at promoting Tet Zoo, here‘s a delightfully nerdy quote by Darren Naish.
You apparently don’t understand the concept of a null hypothesis. Based on the evidence I already outlined, my position is, for me, the null hypothesis.
There is no such thing that “is, for me, the null hypothesis“. “Null hypothesis” is a technical term. Roughly, it means “there’s no correlation, no causation, nothing, the data are purely random, nothing happened, nothing to see here, go along”. (What it means precisely differs between statistical tests, but it’s always a version of the above.) The purpose of a statistical test try is to reject the null hypothesis if it’s wrong.
despite that men are always more likely to be targets of unprovoked violence.
There is no such thing as an abusive husband. There is no such thing as an abusive husband. There is no such thing as an abusive husband. There is no such thing as an abusive husband. There is no such thing as an abusive husband.
If you say it often enough, it becomes true, no doubt…
I also can’t help noticing that almost nobody seems to care.
Ignorance and naïve blindness always lead to this kind of conclusion.
You were raised by the Amazons on Paradise Island. That must have been tough, man.
Unfortunately the link doesn’t work.
CBS News on Ethiopia.
Hooooraaaay.
*cough*
toilet paper + deep “rifts” = not where I wanted my mind to go just before going to sleep.
Just wash your hands. :^)
Do the French not use capital letters in proper names, like reviews, journals?
It’s complicated, and I still haven’t quite understood how it works, or if there’s even a single set of rules. There’s the Bulletin du Muséum national d’Histoire naturelle, where only the nouns get capital letters; and then there’s the Catholic newspaper la Croix with lower-case la. Articles in place names also retain lower case, often even on maps, giving you the city of le Havre (which fuses with prepositions to au Havre and du Havre) and the river la Seine.
But in any case it can’t be “Review”. Do you use an overactive spellchecker? :-)
For me, the ship sunk before it even left the harbour. :-(
Seriously, you’re too young to worry yet.
(a) saying something which, at minimum, is comprehensible and possible to argue with; (b) actually responding to criticisms; and (c) not spamming multiple threads with identical crap. Hyperon meets these minimal criteria.
(a) applies. (c) doesn’t really, and (b) applies little to Hyperon and, well, not at all to Piltdown Man.
It goes without saying that being wrong is not a bannable offense. I find the list pretty fine.
It’s all Ichthyic’s fault. He finds romance here and now everyone’s hoping they’ll get lucky.
So I get 1337 geek cred for having been doingwaiting for this to happen since before it was cool!?!
Something is fishy here… crap, I didn’t intend that pun.
Man oh man, does ScienceBlogs need to implement comment threading.
So that we need to read the entire subthread five times over? No, thanks.
although I am wary of touching too many of the controls. My Japanese is not that good and I worry one of them is for ‘Steam cleaning’ or something.
And once again my ability to laugh silently comes in handy. Mad, open grinning, diaphragm cramps, occasional fluttering of the lower jaw…
X-D
I can hardly stop!
the reference, for the too-young and/or not-yet-caffeinated
It goes without saying that I still don’t get it…
…but I’m still laughing at the steam cleaning anyway!
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
But is he rugged and nerdy?
I guess everyone needs their impossible objects of desire.
Carliesays
Lynna, that is the most awesome story of a medical test I have ever read.
Paul W.says
Oh hey, the Shit Bitch Bear reminds me of something I left hanging a couple of weeks ago, when the Laden thing blew up.
Several people rightly pointed out that something I’d said about the use of “be” in Black English was wrong. (Sven? John Morales? Jadehawk? This was back when David M and I were arguing with SEF about prescriptive linguistics.)
I meant to post this link to Wikipedia, but I don’t think I ever did:
The section on Grammatical Aspect Marking is what I was talking about, but not getting right.
It’s pretty cool, with 9 different forms of “be” (or similar words) fairly standardly used to modify all kinds of verbs.
(Sadly, my wife can’t actually speak that vernacular, or it teach it to me.)
negentropyeatersays
Blake was surprised by the request, but said he would send me a CD. If any of the images can be formatted for presentation on the web, I’ll put them up on my blog.
Just received a CD of my lower abdomen / pelvis CT scan. Maybe we could start an image bank of the inner parts of Pharyngulites ?
The CT scan revealed three kidney stones of 7, 4, and 2 mm diameter : these little fuckers have been responsible for quite some excrutiating pain over the last week. I will now have to undergo lithotripsy in order to shatter the larger ones into smaller fragments. Prayer and HomeopathyMedical progress and technology will bring an end to my suffering.
And anybody who thinks Kidney Stones are the result of some sort of “Intelligent Design” should try them.
badgersdaughtersays
Negentropyeater, great to hear they found the problem. Those little bastards are no joke to deal with. The lithotripsy is no sweat, literally all you must do is lay back and relax. Thinking of you.
Daniasays
Karen James:
WTF w/ the Google login?
Good question…
Anyways, what about a hybrid comment system where you can switch between threaded and chronological views?
As long as which comments are in response to which comments is shown clearly in both views, a hybrid system would be fine by me.
David Marjanovićsays
And Opera just crashed the 5th time while trying to open this. As usual, I chose “continue where I was last time” when I restarted the program, and as usual it worked this time.
lay his fine forearm between my breasts (to steady his hand)
The excuses are getting better and better, aren’t they :-)
Which reminds me, we still do not have access to scans of David M.’s brain.
Neither do I, in case that makes anyone feel better. None has ever been made.
And while X-rays of my dentition have been made (envy alert: all four wisdom teeth are coming out vertically, and there’s just space for them!), they’re probably archived somewhere in the dentist’s office, or have maybe been thrown away long ago…
It was a real pain scanning through so many comments just trying to find the ones that related to the Peptides paper.
Ctrl+F (or +F) is your friend…
Paul W.says
lay his fine forearm between my breasts (to steady his hand)
The excuses are getting better and better, aren’t they
Yep. I’m sure that’s why she put them there.
David Marjanovićsays
just crashed the 5th time
Erm, the 5th time in total since I installed it.
Lynna, OMsays
Walton @166: great link, great exposé of our CEO. All that cephalopod porn will out. LOL
AJ Milnesays
Man, I so can’t relate…
I mean, I’m really pleased that Lynna’s all okay. But my last diagnostic type thing was this nerve conductance test done on my legs. Horrible. They send these shocks through your nerves, measure how far they go…
Apologizing in advance for the dreadful Hollywood cliche, but I think the only thing that got me through it was the fact that the (actually, I guess, kinda attractive) tech who did the deed had this perfect East German torture chamber specialist-type accent. And in between the seriously fucking painful parts where she was actually blasting stuff through my nerves, I found it strangely, appropriately hilarious…
(/Kept waiting for her to say ‘No, Mr. Milne, we do not expect you to talk. We expect you to die.’ That just woulda made the whole thing perfect.)
Lynna, OMsays
@280
But is he rugged and nerdy?
Oh, yes. And, oh, yes. He was very nerdy, and practically symbiotic in relation to the ultrasound apparatus. He was a bit rugged when it came to removal of the lubricating gel from my neck. He left red abrasions. Does that count?
Lynna, OMsays
@285
Maybe we could start an image bank of the inner parts of Pharyngulites ?
Good plan! And I’m sorry to hear about the size and number of your kidney stones. Blast ’em!
triskelethecatsays
@negentropyeater: YOW!! Those are some BIG stones. No wonder you have had pain. I have had friends who underwent lithotripsy; I understand that it is a very weird sensation but generally works well. Good luck getting over them!
Lynna, OMsays
We briefly interrupt for our irregularly scheduled Toothy Goodness for Jadehawk series. Do read all the way to the end of the article
Tusks that grow fatally into the face?! And the creature gets to feel every millimeter of growth. Nice one, god.
Lynna, OMsays
Lynna, that is the most awesome story of a medical test I have ever read.
I can introduce you to Blake, if you like.
Daniasays
envy alert: all four wisdom teeth are coming out vertically, and there’s just space for them!
I hate you. ;)
My upper teeth are coming out vertically but there’s no space for the lower teeth. I had the lower right one extracted last month and I still can’t chew properly with the right side of my mouth!
*sigh*
One down, one to go.
Lynna, OMsays
Man, I so can’t relate…
I mean, I’m really pleased that Lynna’s all okay. But my last diagnostic type thing was this nerve conductance test done on my legs. Horrible. They send these shocks through your nerves, measure how far they go…
AJ Milne, you are jealous of the medical-testing sensuousity you were so unfairly denied! That’s adorable.
Seriously, I am sorry that you were tortured.
PZ Myerssays
I’m 52, and my dentist has finally decided that this one annoying wisdom tooth that is all mashed up in the upper right corner of my jaw must go. Gettin’ yanked either next week or the week after.
At this very moment, tens of thousands of home computers around the world are quietly working together to solve the largest and most basic mysteries of our galaxy. The collected computing power of these humble home computers recently has surpassed one petaflop, a computing speed that surpasses the world’s second fastest supercomputer.
Scientists have observed electrons in a semiconductor on the brink of the metal-insulator transition for the first time. Caught in the act, the electrons formed complex patterns resembling those seen in turbulent fluids.
Jadehawk, OMsays
Man oh man, does ScienceBlogs need to implement comment threading.
NO
Everything which can be heated has a temperature control, everything which squirts has direction control, pulse control, and motion control.
does it even make sense to ask why…?
@Carlie (#244): I have to disagree. With a Siamese cat in the house, the paper rolls UNDER, unless I want to pick up shreds of it from all over.
Ahem. Greatest Bitch in the Internet. Greatest. I’m the Muhammad Ali of internet bitchitude.
:-D
too bad that’s too long for a handle title…
My fellow Pharynguloids, thank you for the funds for this test, an unexpectedly sensual experience.[…]Blake (yep, that’s his name) was, I swear to the FSM, tall, dark and handsome. And did I say well-muscled? So this Registered Cardio Sonographer lay his fine forearm between my breasts (to steady his hand) while he probed my lubricated neck with a round-tipped wand about the size of (insert Josh, Official SpokesGay’s imaginative description here).
RAWR…. err… I mean, what where the results?
If any of the images can be formatted for presentation on the web, I’ll put them up on my blog. My carotid arteries will be revealed in all their glory. […]
It’ll also be a couple of days before I get a CD from Blake. In the meantime, I’m not dead yet.
yay2 :-)
We briefly interrupt for our irregularly scheduled Toothy Goodness for Jadehawk series. Do read all the way to the end of the article.
first reaction: “how…absurd”; second reaction later, when I’m sufficiently awake for substantive reading.
So I get 1337 geek cred for having been doing waiting for this to happen since before it was cool!?!
pfft, I have been doing it since before it was cool. ahh, the gloriously weird looks I got way back in the dark ages of 2002 when explaining how I met my then-husband. On the flip side, a good number of his acquaintances thought I was a Russian mail-order bride… :-/
Maybe we could start an image bank of the inner parts of Pharyngulites ?
excellent. I think I have an X-ray of my head floating around somewhere…
Medical progress and technology will bring an end to my suffering.
and let’s not forget: Evil Socialized Medicine!
envy alert: all four wisdom teeth are coming out vertically, and there’s just space for them!
lucky bastard. when mine started coming in they took out two and were gonna take out the other two a couple weeks later, except in the meantime my jaw locked in the closed position. Not cool. So they did an emergency removal of the remaining two teeth.
And I’m not even going to talk about the boyfriend’s dentition. he’s a walking argument for free dental care (no canines, for starters)
negentropyeatersays
triskelethecat,
this is my third kidney stones attack in 15 years. Previous two didn’t require lithotripsy. But all I can say is that the pain is not necessarily proportional to the size of the little fuckers. I heard it’s the same as with babies. Though as a male, I’ll never get to compare.
Thanks to all for the kind words.
Lynna, OMsays
I’m 52, and my dentist has finally decided that this one annoying wisdom tooth that is all mashed up in the upper right corner of my jaw must go. Gettin’ yanked either next week or the week after.
This event will distract you from the pain in your back.
Waltonsays
I’m very lucky, as my teeth are more-or-less perfect. My dentist appointments tend to take about five minutes, and I never had to have braces or dental surgery or anything.
On another note: is it just me who actually likes the clean hygienic antiseptic smell in dentists’ offices? Everyone to whom I’ve ever mentioned this seems to think it’s very weird. :-)
Bachman was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. During his early Guess Who years his religious beliefs conflicted with the sex, drugs & rock n roll lifestyle of the other band members and caused some bitterness between Bachman and bandmate Burton Cummings. Bachman later renounced his Mormon beliefs, saying ‘We found some things that couldn’t be reconciled’ and ‘Religion is a bunch of rules, a fear factor.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
On another note: is it just me who actually likes the clean hygienic antiseptic smell in dentists’ offices? Everyone to whom I’ve ever mentioned this seems to think it’s very weird. :-)
Walton, you do realize that you make this just too easy.
I kid because all of this talk of pain is bringing back to my ailments, those that I am trying to ignore.
Lynna, that is the most awesome story of a medical test I have ever read.
I’ve been away for a bit, but I’m glad to hear you’re getting somewhere with this health issue, Lynna.
Ahem, if I may, I’d like to share a medical test story that might resonate with the fellas here. Now, I kinda love hospitals. I like being poked and prodded, and I don’t even mind those stupid paper gowns you get (I’m kind of an exhibitionist). I’m also a consummate smartass; once, just before surgery to excise a small wound on my arm that had become infected, I actually asked the poor resident with the scalpel if I’d be able to play the piano after the surgery. The look on her face when I gave the punchline was so worth it I briefly considered innoculating a cut on my other arm with staph just to see if there was someone else on call I could sucker. Apparently, medical school doesn’t at all prepare you for 12-year-old patients pulling Henny Youngman-esque routines (though the joke is even in the literature).
Anyway, my family doctor used to work out of a hospital and so always had residents to perform some of the more routine tests during physicals. On one such occasion I was being examined by one of the most beautiful girls I had ever seen–we even shared a birthday, indicating some sort of kismet*–when she announced she needed to check my testicles for signs of cancer. Having been through such exams many times, I immediately hopped onto the examining table, lied back, looked at the wall, and thought about baseball.
Apparently unfamiliar with how this test is performed, she directed me instead to stand up. Dutifully I did so, and she knelt down in front of me, yanked my ginch down like she was about to mail a letter, and proceeded to massage my scrotum with her face an inch away from my junk. Now, I have no doubt that there wasn’t the slightest hint of anything sexual going on in her mind, but as for me I distinctly remember having two successive thoughts: the first was that there was some sort of punchline about normally having to to pay $50 for this kind of attention in a dingy alley in this somewhere, and the second was that no jury of my peers would fault me if I got an erection.
So I did.
I swear, there was nothing I could do.
Anyway, I nearly poked her eye out (I’m not that big; she was that close) and the test was very immediately concluded. And I’d be willing to bet good money that in every subsequent testicular cancer test she’s performed, when the patient lies back and looks at the wall she let him.
*Yeah, I know. What can I say? Even rationalist Geminis look for their lost twins.
Daniasays
BTW, I forgot to mention that the dentist who removed my wisdom tooth* had very pretty eyes (not only the eyes, either), which made the whole thing much less boring than usual. :P
*Not my dentist. The dentist I go to regularly is a private dentist, but for economic reasons the extraction was made at one of those evil socialist institutions some people call “public hospital”.
On another note: is it just me who actually likes the clean hygienic antiseptic smell in dentists’ offices? Everyone to whom I’ve ever mentioned this seems to think it’s very weird. :-)
“The people who were living these things all had doubts about how they would turn out,” says Ted. “But what’s remarkable is that every one of them, to some degree or another, acknowledged the help of Divine Providence.” The seven events they focus on are:
Christopher Columbus, who “against all odds” discovered the New World — when it could very well have been found by the Chinese.
The survival of Jamestown, despite untold hardship and starvation, ensuring that America would be settled by a religiously oriented and religiously tolerant people. [Religiously tolerant? More than a little fudging there.]
The epic events that led to the creation of the United States Constitution, forever establishing this country as “the shining city on the hill.” [code for: Paving the way for Joseph Smith and ilk.]…
How a would-be assassin’s bullet stopped within an inch of Ronald Reagan’s heart, thus allowing him to live and go on to play a key role in the end of the Cold War….
A lot of people worry about all the bad things that are happening in the world, they say. “Many people think America may no longer be worthy of God’s help,” says Chris. But, at what percentage of unbelief does God give up on us? he asks. If it’s 51 percent believers and 49 percent nonbelievers, are we OK? If the scale tips to 51 percent nonbelievers, are we done?…
None of the events they talk about “are without controversy,” says Ted. But, Chris notes, they have been “really, really careful with our research.” People may not agree with their conclusions, “but there’s nothing that anyone can say is poorly researched.” [um, uh, … I can. The Puritans as “religiously tolerant”, for one.]
“But this is not a religious book or a political book; it is a history book.”…
“A friend who was a great teacher told me a story of Abraham Lincoln that I had never heard before,” Chris says. “He told me they used to teach these stories in school, and showed me a book from the 1930s to prove it.” [code for: “See, the dirty, immoral liberal atheist historians have formed a conspiracy to delete miracles from American History.]…
“This country was too important to the future of mankind to let it fail. Despite our weaknesses, which are many, and our failings, which have existed since our inception, God has been willing to intervene so that this nation might survive. History gives us the ultimate assurance that God still watches over this country today.”
PZ Myerssays
I’m not much for the antiseptic smell, but I really get into that scent of bone/tooth dust in the air when the drill gets going. Reminds me of good times.
Brownian, OMsays
How a would-be assassin’s bullet stopped within an inch of Ronald Reagan’s heart, thus allowing him to live and go on to play a key role in the end of the Cold War…
Wow. I can only imagine how much the LDS church must absolutely revere 50 Cent.
Daniasays
Ah, so I’m not the only one! :)
In case that wasn’t clear, I meant that I’m not the only one liking the smell in dentists’ offices. (And not that I’m not the only one finding your liking of it very weird.)
Lynna, OMsays
Look for LDS “historians” to collaborate with the Texas State School Board in revising history textbooks. Look for both parties to ignore original sources as they proclaim the religious tolerance of Puritans:
“Those that scaped the fire were slaine with the sword; some hewed to peeces, others rune throw with their rapiers, so as they were quickly dispatche, and very few escaped. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fyer, and the streams of blood quenching the same, and horrible was the stincke and sente there of, but the victory seemed a sweet sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them, thus to inclose their enemise in their hands, and gave them so speedy a victory over so proud and insulting an enimie.” — William Bradford, “History of the Plymouth Plantation”, on the massacre of the friendly Pequot Indians by Puritans in 1637
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
I’m not much for the antiseptic smell, but I really get into that scent of bone/tooth dust in the air when the drill gets going. Reminds me of good times.
I am not sure if I find this to be more deeply weird or deeply creepy.
Pygmy Lorissays
Lynna,
Glad to hear you got the first test, had some delicious eye candy too! We’re hoping the results are, at the least, informative.
Negentropyeater,
Oooh, that sucks! I’ve heard that passing kidney stones is more painful than childbirth. I hope they’re giving you some decent painkillers. It’s good to know you’re going to be okay, though.
David M,
So I get 1337 geek cred for having been doing waiting for this to happen since before it was cool!?!
You can always whisper sweet nothings about fossils in my ear ;)
(envy alert: all four wisdom teeth are coming out vertically, and there’s just space for them!)
Yes, but is there room for you to floss and brush behind them? If not, you might end up losing them to cavities. This happened to me.
Walton,
On another note: is it just me who actually likes the clean hygienic antiseptic smell in dentists’ offices? Everyone to whom I’ve ever mentioned this seems to think it’s very weird. :-)
Well, you are weird, but so are we all. I have a friend who loves the smell of bathroom cleaner. She’s very strange.
David Marjanovićsays
Tusks that grow fatally into the face?!
No documented case, only anecdotes.
weren’t we speaking of petaflops?
:-D
relevant and cute
:-)
too bad that’s too long for a handle title…
Disproved by Pope Bologna XIII – The Glorious High Sauceror of Pastafarianism and Grand Poobah of His Holy Meatball.
first reaction: “how…absurd”
Exactly. Reality is always stranger than fiction.
excellent. I think I have an X-ray of my head floating around somewhere…
WANT!
except in the meantime my jaw locked in the closed position
:-S
no canines, for starters
<shock>
Heartfelt condolences. It’s not often, but sometimes canines do come in very handy for things like biting hard bread.
is it just me who actually likes the clean hygienic antiseptic smell in dentists’ offices?
I do like the smell of iodoform in the morning.
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
Christopher Columbus, who “against all odds” discovered the New World — when it could very well have been found by the Chinese
The natives “discovered” the New World first. The Vikings were second. And so what if the Chinese discovered it next? Are they afraid that they might put their culture there instead? Colombus’ appearence wasn’t a good thing for the natives; it wiped out 90% of the population, with the Europeans killing much of the rest. I smell imperialistic sentiments from the LSD.
God has been willing to intervene so that this nation might survive. History gives us the ultimate assurance that God still watches over this country today.
So God has favorites. Which means God is vile, because he’s willing to kill other people in the favor of one group.
Great LSD post from Lynna again. :)
Hyperonsays
oh, I want to see a big, fat citation for that one.
Of course, women are never subjected to violence. Partner abuse must also only affect men. Women are never beaten by men. All female domestic violence victims are making it up.
In any case, domestic abuse has nothing to do with sexism. It emerges from the basic fact about our biology that men tend to be physically stronger than women. However, the conception that it is not “macho” to hit women is a good example of a way in which one sex is privileged above another in our society. Not that I have a problem with it: it presumably reduces overall suffering, which is all that it is relevant. But what it does mean is that thuggish types (if they don’t feel like going as far as rape, and they usually don’t) will tend to victimize males, not females. Nobody seems to care, which is why I saw fit to bring this up.
Silisays
BEGIN
GOTO Pharyngula
DEMAND money // Don’t say you weren’t warned.
INPUT
“One of fellow SciBling Grrrlscientist’s chosen projects for the Donors’ Choose charity challenge haven’t received anything yet, and the request runs out in a week. So here I go plugging it. Hopefully some of the resident mathematicians still have a wee bit of spare cash lying around.
I teach kindergarten class of high need students. The school is 80% free and reduced lunch and at risk. I don’t have enough math resources to give my students a chance to properly explore math concepts in the classroom. Young students visual learner and need those resource to grasp concepts. I’m asking for math counters and games for my students to use in the classroom during center time. This will give them a opportunity to explore and learn concepts taught in the classroom. Help make math magnificent for my early childhood learners this year and make a difference in a child’s life.
“, N
DEPOSIT N, “Donors’ Choose”
PRINT “Thank you for giving to DC USD”; N
END DEMAND
END
AJ Milnesays
I’m not much for the antiseptic smell, but I really get into that scent of bone/tooth dust in the air when the drill gets going. Reminds me of good times.
Ah, so I’m not the only one.
(/Mandatory.)
Brownian, OMsays
Ooh, just read about the stones, Negentropyeater. All, uh, the best. Ouch!
Is it just me who actually likes the clean hygienic antiseptic smell in dentists’ offices?
I once had a brief job as a subject for a master’s thesis in which I administered spirometric tests to the public at a booth in a mall as a control alongside a real respiratory technician. I don’t recall the type of antiseptic we used but the smell reminded me of melons, though I’m sure its pink colour contributed more than a little to that impression. At the end of the night, when the mall closed, we’d dismantle all of the equipment and immerse it in the liquid. I miss that smell.
Daniasays
…I really get into that scent of bone/tooth dust in the air when the drill gets going. Reminds me of good times.
Ah, so that’s what you did to the bones and teeth of the 9,000 Catholic babies that, according to some sources, you devoured after the Crackergate?
Pygmy Lorissays
Walton,
For me, the ship sunk before it even left the harbour. :-(
Really? Honestly, you seem like a fairly nice guy. Since you’ve been hanging out here I’ve noticed that your social skills have improved dramatically. I really can’t imagine that you’re so odious in person that you couldn’t have a relationship. Give yourself some time.
David Marjanovićsays
I nearly poked her eye out
X-D
Ouch. It went that fast? And she was so focused she (literally) didn’t see it coming?
(Erm. Don’t feel obliged to answer.)
You can always whisper sweet nothings about fossils in my ear ;)
Yet another Mad Woman of Pharyngula who is 1) on average 13,000 km away and 2) not single. I smell a pattern. It is to despair.
Yes, but is there room for you to floss and brush behind them?
Behind? What behind? I said there’s just space, in this case between the 2nd molar and, in the lower jaw, the solid jawbone. :-) Already it’s very difficult to get floss between the 1st and 2nd molars, but nothing else ever gets in there either, so there’s not much to bother, is there…
PZ Myerssays
No, not babies. I used to do skull surgeries. On kittens.
Pygmy Lorissays
Behind? What behind? I said there’s just space, in this case between the 2nd molar and, in the lower jaw, the solid jawbone. :-) Already it’s very difficult to get floss between the 1st and 2nd molars, but nothing else ever gets in there either, so there’s not much to bother, is there…
Then you may get lucky. There was just enough space between my M3s and the ramus for tiny particles of food to get stuck, but not enough space for me to get a toothbrush or floss back there. After a couple of years, I had one heckuva cavity. Since I was about to time out on my parents’ dental insurance they went ahead and pulled all four so that this didn’t happen on the other side.
The risk of being a victim of violent crime in the 2008/09 BCS was 3.2 per cent. Men (4.4%) were twice as likely as women (2.1%) to have experienced violence in the year prior to interview. The risk for men aged 16 to 24 was highest at 13.2 per cent.
Holy cow! Men in the UK really are twice as likely to report violent crime as women! That’s amazing.
There’s some serious sexism against 16- to 24-year-old males in the UK. I wonder why that is?
David Marjanovićsays
the intuitively inevitable fact that men are less likely to report violent crimes
…?
Seriously? That you call “intuitively inevitable”? Isn’t it rather “intuitively inevitable” that domestic violence would be heavily underreported?
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
Hyperon, do you belong to any “father’s rights” groups?
Matt Penfoldsays
There is a good reason why young men report such high levels of violence. That reason is a combination of testosterone and alcohol. The overwhelming number of assaults on young males are committed by other young males, at pub and club closing time. It is seldom the case that such assaults are entirely unprovoked.
Poor Hyperon. One might think he isn’t a man, but rather a boy cowering in his parent’s basement, afraid to face the world, where people not of his religion or with diffent body parts do actual work. Call a Waahhhmbulance.
badgersdaughtersays
I’ve heard that passing kidney stones is more painful than childbirth.
NO.
If you were trying to pass a walnut through your urethra, maybe it would be as painful as childbirth.
Desert Son, OMsays
Glad to hear updates on Lynna and negentropyeater, with wishes for continued recovery/improvement/good health.
Still learning,
Robert
Waltonsays
Ah, so that’s what you did to the bones and teeth of the 9,000 Catholic babies that, according to some sources, you devoured after the Crackergate?
I’m oddly enjoying the novel feeling that comes from randomly making stuff up, posting it on the internet, and then finding people quoting it as a “source”. This must be how journalists feel all the time. :-)
Hyperonsays
PZ, this misogynistic, racist, fascist creep has got to go. That remark implying that rape is lesser than a guy getting beaten up–it’s way too far over the line.
I understand that rape is a subject which is shrouded in taboo, and I understand that most human beings are too intellectually and emotionally limited to question most taboos. I also understand that my crime on this blog is heresy. The truth still holds that there is no logic reason why I can’t compare rape and physical assault in terms of the suffering caused.
I know there’s a lot of talk about the “trauma” of rape, but why, fundamentally, in a typical case, would rape be more traumatic than a more physically painful and prolonged instance of physical assault? (This is a real question, not a rhetorical question.) Perhaps we are actually increasing the pain of rape by telling people that they’re supposed to undergo immense, unavoidable, and somehow sacrosanct trauma.
SC OMsays
…yanked my ginch down like she was about to mail a letter…
My face hurts from laughing.
***
neg, sorry to hear that. Get well soon. Lynna, I’m so happy you’re getting the tests (and finding them so pleasurable).
For a long time, I thought that Walton lacked a sense of humor. Now I am finding him to be compellingly perverse. As a group, are we really that bad of an influence on young people?
‘Terrified about the implications.’
Jadehawk, OMsays
The truth still holds that there is no logic reason why I can’t compare rape and physical assault in terms of the suffering caused.
how about you listen to the people who have experienced both and have been telling you that being beaten to pulp is less bad than being raped
oh, but they were women, so their experiences don’t count for shit, huh?
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Hyperon, think about some big guy doing rape onto you. Maybe you will begin to feel even a tiny bit of compassion for the women who suffured such violence, and live with the trauma and PTDS.
nigelTheBoldsays
the intuitively inevitable fact that men are less likely to report violent crimes
Is it really “intuitively inevitable?” Seriously?
That doesn’t quite fit with the fact that half of the reported violent acts did not result in injury. At all. Many of those “reports” were for things like shoving, or even just death threats (such as, “I’m gonna fuckin’ kill you, you stupid git!”)
Couple that with the statistics for lifestyle (in which you are far more likely to suffer violence if you attend nightclubs on a regular basis) and the afore-mentioned youthfulness of most of the victims, and I think you have quite a bit of evidence that your “intuitive inevitability” is neither intuitive, nor inevitable.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
Perhaps we are actually increasing the pain of rape by telling people that they’re supposed to undergo immense, unavoidable, and somehow sacrosanct trauma.
Which is why so many women never tell others about their so called “trauma”.
Hyperon, it is tiring that you try to disguise your dogma as though you are truly free of dogma. Yes, I think you are a sick fuck who refuses to understand the suffering of others.
Hyperonsays
Hyperon, it is tiring that you try to disguise your dogma as though you are truly free of dogma. Yes, I think you are a sick fuck who refuses to understand the suffering of others.
No, I’m just someone who’s asking why rape is necessarily worse than physical assault. I’m not receiving any good answers.
negentropyeatersays
Pygmy Loris,
I hope they’re giving you some decent painkillers
The tablets do the job (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory + morphine derivative).
At least, I sleep well with them, I don’t get woken up by the pain every 3 hours like before. My cognitive abilities might have been slightly impaired, a bit euphoric, but it’s temporary.
Had to lay off alcohol for a while, which is a bit tough, as reading Pharyngula and a few other blogs whilst drinking is one of my favourite past time…
SC OMsays
Hyperon said he would go away according to my feelings, but then he came back without agreeing to my terms:
“I understand that rape is a subject which is shrouded in taboo, and I understand that most human beings are too intellectually and emotionally limited to question most taboos.”
Translation: bitchez are too emotional about being raped, and Hyperon doesn’t understand why, since he’s never had to live with it or the feat of it, so clearly he’s superior.
“The truth still holds that there is no logic reason why I can’t compare rape and physical assault in terms of the suffering caused.”
There is no truth in this whatsoever. There’s your bigotry, your refusal to consider the statements of people who actually know what they’re talking about and your pathetic attempts at painting yourself as a victim. But no truth.
“Perhaps we are actually increasing the pain of rape by telling people that they’re supposed to undergo immense, unavoidable, and somehow sacrosanct trauma.”
The next time you bend over, someone’s going to ram something up your ass repeatedly for as long as they want to do so. Nothing you say or do will stop it. No amount of begging, pleading, crying, screaming or fighting will stop it. And when it’s over and you try to report it, they’re going to ask what you did to bring it on, the person who committed the crime will go free and you will get to live with that.
i second the request for this sick fuck’s removal, PZ. This level of psychotic, callous misogyny should not be allowed to stand. Unless driving away more female posters is the goal.
Hyperonsays
This study has a small sample size but it is about how children think that violence against women can be justified.
Children also tend to be homophobic. I think there might be a biological tendency toward misogyny and homophobia, which is why it is pronounced in children. I suppose you could argue that “compensating” for our biology might justify some measure of affirmative action.
Miki Zsays
I am envious of those who have either space for their wisdom teeth or easy removals. All four of mine had to be chiseled out while I was under general anesthetic.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
Hyperon, Pygmy Loris gave you a damned good responce the first fucking time you called rape a temporary incompetence. It is your problem that you cannot comprehend it, not ours.
Qwertysays
Hyperon: “No, I’m just someone who’s asking why rape is necessarily worse than physical assault. I’m not receiving any good answers.”
I would guess you’ve neither been raped or assaulted which is why no answers satisfy you. Or you’re just an overly dim pinhead.
Endorsays
“I think there might be a biological tendency toward misogyny and homophobia, which is why it is pronounced in children.”
LOL. Yeah, because there certainly aren’t people teaching them that and no societal messages that teach any of that. Nah, it’s NATURAL.
And what you think is obviously true, since you’re a sociopath who has no ability to feel compassion. Which makes you so superior to anyone else.
badgersdaughtersays
Perhaps we are actually increasing the pain of rape by telling people that they’re supposed to undergo immense, unavoidable, and somehow sacrosanct trauma.
You might get a clue if you think about why sexual abuse of young children is considered even worse than beating them. Young children have not had the time or the cognitive functioning necessary to be so indoctrinated. But children suffer heavy psychological damage from molestation even when they are apparently willing and even enthusiastic participants.
I think there might be a biological tendency toward misogyny and homophobia, which is why it is pronounced in children.
you’re a simpleminded troll. I bet after watching the Doll Tests, you’d conclude that blacks naturally feel inferior to whites, too.
What a fucking moron.
SC OMsays
SC,
30 seconds to look it up on Urban Dictionary.
Ah. Thanks. My search was too broad.
How did I not know that? *shakes head*
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
I think there might be a biological tendency toward misogyny and homophobia, which is why it is pronounced in children.
Because it would be fucking unthinkable to suggest that these are learned from the adults around them.
nigelTheBoldsays
I know there’s a lot of talk about the “trauma” of rape, but why, fundamentally, in a typical case, would rape be more traumatic than a more physically painful and prolonged instance of physical assault?
Weren’t you the one saying that psychology is a solid science? Why not go read up on the psychology of rape? It is extremely well-documented.
Perhaps we are actually increasing the pain of rape by telling people that they’re supposed to undergo immense, unavoidable, and somehow sacrosanct trauma.
See, there you go ruining a fairly legitimate question with chauvinistic condescension. The “somehow sacrosanct” just shows that you have no real interest in the answer.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
Botany Wednesday? Today is Wednesday, right?
David Marjanovićsays
The post that is “Now on ScienceBlogs” could deal with a bit more attention. It’s interesting indeed.
This study has a small sample size but it is about how children think that violence against women can be justified.
Man, is this scary.
Perhaps we are actually increasing the pain of rape by telling people that they’re supposed to undergo immense, unavoidable, and somehow sacrosanct trauma.
That may well be, but I bet it pales (outside of theocratic countries at least) in comparison to the trauma that betrayal of trust causes, to name just one.
Really, you should read that thread again where you made the “temporary inconvenience” remark. In detail. Yes, it’s going to take an afternoon or two – we can wait…
Hyperonsays
Incidentally, if I were ever raped, the thing I would be most worried about is painful and long-term physical injuries. Yes, it would be highly uncomfortable, but it would only last for a short period of time. Carrying around broken body parts for months would be in my opinion worse than “trauma”, which I could probably blank out soon enough.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
I am so old school that OG is Magilla Gorilla’s little friend.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
HyperIdjit just can’t grasp that we don’t give a shit about his inane, insane, sexist, and bigoted opinions. And we certainly would shit on them, but they are so shitty to begin with, it accomplishes nothing, and may even make it smell better.
Hyperonsays
Because it would be fucking unthinkable to suggest that these are learned from the adults around them.
Well, OK, but why can’t we just study the adults directly? Are you suggesting that the adults would be more deceptive than the children? (A good point if so — I’m just curious as to what your argument is.)
The author of the Peptides paper is responding to people on the other thread.
Jadehawk, OMsays
Incidentally, if I were ever raped, the thing I would be most worried about is painful and long-term physical injuries. Yes, it would be highly uncomfortable, but it would only last for a short period of time. Carrying around broken body parts for months would be in my opinion worse than “trauma”, which I could probably blank out soon enough.
Internet Tough Guy mansplains how rape ain’t shit.
SC OMsays
Just like how suffering serious injuries in battle is exactly the same as being tortured.
Endorsays
“Hyperon, do you belong to any “father’s rights” groups? ”
Since he’s puking out virtually every derranged misogynistic lie that they do, it’s “intuitively inevitable” that he’s a bitter, twisted MRA.
Even in considering being raped, he is utterly incapable of thinking past his preconceived notions. He is incapable of considering psychological ramifications, or societal reaction. This is either a frightening sociopath, or a resoundingly stupid MRA ideologue.
Celtic_Evolutionsays
Hyper-wrong verbally oozed:
Incidentally, if I were ever raped [insensitive, moronic, unconscionably ignorant follow-up removed]…
Yikes…
This is exactly why I don’t even bother engaging this sociopathic shitstain here anymore. He’s too fucked in the head to even realize what a complete piece of shit he is.
*shakes head*
Waltonsays
Hyperon, I really think you should retract these comments and apologise.
You’re opining about something – the suffering and trauma associated with being a victim of rape – which, by your own admission, you have never experienced. You don’t have any evidential basis at all for your remarks about rape, and you seem to be ignoring the testimonies of actual rape victims. And your assertions are not only unsubstantiated, they have also deeply offended many people. Yet you keep making them.
I’ve stood up for you from time to time in the past, but on this particular issue I think you’re entirely wrong.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
Funny, the scientist reads the article I linked to and finds the content to be worrisome. The bigot looks at it and goes ‘meh’, it is biologically justified.
nigelTheBoldsays
Just like how suffering serious injuries in battle is exactly the same as being tortured.
SC, you don’t need ‘nother OM. Now you’re just showing off.
FTW.
Endorsays
“mansplains”
This douche is a world class mansplainer. Every single thing actual rape victims have said do not make a dent in his absolute certainty. He needs a padded room and medication, not internet access.
Waltonsays
Incidentally, if I were ever raped, the thing I would be most worried about is painful and long-term physical injuries. Yes, it would be highly uncomfortable, but it would only last for a short period of time. Carrying around broken body parts for months would be in my opinion worse than “trauma”, which I could probably blank out soon enough.
I think you’re wrong to downplay the importance of mental and emotional health here. In some ways, mental trauma can be more harmful to an individual’s wellbeing than physical injury. Many rape victims end up suffering from depression, low self-esteem, chronic nightmares and fears, and other serious mental health problems through their entire lives. It’s easy to assert that you would be able to “blank out” a traumatic event, but until you’ve experienced it, you have no basis for making an assertion like that. Mental health is just as real as physical health, and just as important to people’s lives.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Hypersexist still can’t prove himself right, and his smelly opinions aren’t worth even the communist toilet paper needed to wipe them up. Nothing cogent, since he isn’t cogent.
Rawnaerissays
I’m just glad my killfile is working properly. I’ve got hyperon blocked, and he’s still making me feel ill just from what people are quoting to refute.
Sanctionsays
Carrying around broken body parts for months would be in my opinion worse than “trauma”, which I could probably blank out soon enough.
Until you’ve been raped, your opinion about the resulting “trauma” — nice use of scare quotes, jackass — are worthless.
Sanctionsays
Comment by Hyperon blocked. [unkill] [show comment]
Endorsays
“Many rape victims end up suffering from depression, low self-esteem, chronic nightmares and fears, and other serious mental health problems through their entire lives.”
This is not at all to suggest that victims can’t move on from the crime, or can’t live normal lives again. Some actually do just shove it away and never deal with it. Others go to long-term counseling.
Funny how the poor widdle white dudes who get beat up once don’t have these problems, huh.
Carliesays
I can introduce you to Blake, if you like.
Thanks Lynna, but my husband might not like it if I ran off with a hunky medical practitioner.
Eek, why did I unkill Hyperon? My guess is that he’s never had sex, period. That’s the only explanation I can think of why he can’t comprehend how rape IS assault.
In more fun news, I took a classful of students on a brewery tour today, and didn’t realize until we were leaving that it’s also Ash Wednesday. Is it bad to expose a group of (mostly) minors to beer on a religious holiday?
David Marjanovićsays
30 seconds to look it up on Urban Dictionary.
From there…
O.G. can also apply to a first generation item or family name, i.e. George H.W. Bush = “O.G. Bush”
LOL!
Children also tend to be homophobic.
What?
When I was told (by a fellow second-or-something-grader) what the terms “gay” and “lesbian” mean – “men who fall in love with men”, “women who fall in love with women” –, all I thought was “ah, so that exists, too”. It didn’t trigger any emotions.
That was an anecdote. Now bring me data, or retract your claim.
It would also be very surprising if violent misogyny were innate rather than learned, while I am at it…
had to be chiseled out
:-S
Incidentally, if I were ever raped, the thing I would be most worried about is painful and long-term physical injuries.
What if you were raped by your partner of several years?
Why don’t you ever think for longer than 3 seconds in a row?
Read that thread already. A link has been provided.
Carliesays
Via Shakesville, the BBC is doing a several part series on rape and women in the US military, so there’s a place for Hyperon to go read how women who one would stereotypically consider to be the toughest women around are still traumatized and injured by rape, not to mention how unreported it is. Funny how it’s the BBC, not an American news outlet, isn’t it? It’s almost like we want to pretend it doesn’t exist or something.
Waltonsays
Hyperon, I think you should stop posting on this thread. Just stop for a minute, reread your posts, and think about whether you really want to carry on with this ridiculous line of argument.
Hyperonsays
Hyperon, I really think you should retract these comments and apologise.
This is an empirical question. I don’t understand why it should possibly be considered “offensive”. Are you saying that we should confer on rape some special kind of epistemic status, or take it as an axiomatic truth that rape is categorically different from any other crime?
In some ways, mental trauma can be more harmful to an individual’s wellbeing than physical injury. Many rape victims end up suffering from depression, low self-esteem, chronic nightmares and fears, and other serious mental health problems through their entire lives.
Do you have any data? Because my impression is that generally people excel at avoiding unpleasant truths. Unless of course they’re being told by the popular culture that instead they should try to dwell as best they can upon their traumatic experiences.
Endorsays
“My guess is that he’s never had sex, period. That’s the only explanation I can think of why he can’t comprehend how rape IS assault. ”
That plus a hearty stash of rape porn = Hyperon.
Hyperonsays
Also, as for this bullshit about my line of argument being sexist: various studies indicate that most rapes are in fact carried out on males in prisons, and go unreported. (See the Wiki entry for the links.)
maureen.brian#b5c92says
Hyperon,
Read the story which Carlie linked only minutes ago, already.
Or are you too scared?
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Hypershit is still evidenceless, and his opinions smell worse than shit, are are worse than shit. They are worthless for anything other than the sewer, which rejects them. For that to change, he needs stop posting. PZ, maybe you would help him with that decision.
David Marjanovićsays
The author of the Peptides paper is responding to people on the other thread.
Ooh. I must read that when I get home.
Internet Tough Guy mansplains how rape ain’t shit.
We have a winner.
Just like how suffering serious injuries in battle is exactly the same as being tortured.
We have another winner.
Mental health is just as real as physical health, and just as important to people’s lives.
To put it another way, the brain is an organ, too…
Silisays
Awesome, Lynna. Well worth the money!
I used to have some dental X-rays from my stay in Bath, but I think I handed them over to my Danish dentist.
Would anyone like me to photograph the wart in my palm?
Endorsays
“as for this bullshit about my line of argument being sexist: various studies indicate that most rapes are in fact carried out on males in prisons, and go unreported.”
nah, it’s totally not sexist to totally ignore every single link provided to you and carry on with your total load of bullshit – SANS ANY EVIDENCE.
Prison rape happens on a staggering scale and is underreported – that is not under dispute. Most rapes, however, are not prison rapes. That’s just a flat out fucking lie from a sociopathic misogynist who has NOT PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE of anything aside from his sociopathic misogyny.
Brownian, OMsays
You don’t have any evidential basis at all for your remarks about rape, and you seem to be ignoring the testimonies of actual rape victims. And your assertions are not only unsubstantiated, they have also deeply offended many people. Yet you keep making them.
He doesn’t need experience, nor does he need to read other people’s experiences, but that’s only because he’s not intellectually limited like all those idiots who rely on evidence. Like scientists.
I’d long ago stopped being particularly upset by Hyperon, when I realised that all of his comments add up to him being an incredibly cowardly and terrified little boy who makes up for his very real physical fear by thinking of himself as an intellectual tough guy. (You can’t swing a dead cat in a second-year poli sci or econ class without hitting a few of these, but not to worry; they’re way too scared shitless to hit you back with one. The tendency of women to be smaller and less physically intimidating is on of the reasons these guys love to make women their targets.) There’s no need to argue with them, since you can predict what they’re going to say with absolute accuracy: every opinion they have is informed by nothing but a desire to be ‘politically incorrect’ and cloak themselves as mental freedom fighters.
If you think assault of any form is traumatising; imagine what Hyperon will have to go through: an entire life with undescended testicles and a saliva-soaked thumb. Don’t loathe the, um, for lack of a better word, man; pity him.
Sven DiMilosays
that scent of bone/tooth dust in the air when the drill gets going. Reminds me of good times.
oh, ech
That’s the same smell you get when drilling a hole in a turtle’s plastron. I hated doing that.
Carliesays
Hyperon, every post you make only serves as additional evidence to everyone that you’re not just an idiot, you’re not just uninformed, but that you are deliberately ignorant. Almost aggressively so; you actively push away and twist any piece of data that could indicate that you are wrong.
Speaking entirely honestly, I hope that you are not involved in a romantic relationship with a woman now, and I hope that any you encounter stay far, far away from you, because you are a threat. Someone who is that clueless as to why rape is bad could easily push too far on a romantic partner and then just claim later that “she just wasn’t really into it at first”. Someone who is that clueless about what mental distress is like is likely to be emotionally abusive and not care. At the very least, someone like you is likely to spout off shit about how rape isn’t that bad to someone who has gone through it, and generally be a real pain in the ass about it. In fact, just by posting here you have already done that, because I can guarantee you that women (and men) who have been raped read this site.
I don’t use the term sociopath often or lightly, but you really seem to fit a lot of the criteria.
Celtic_Evolutionsays
Are you saying that we should confer on rape some special kind of epistemic status, or take it as an axiomatic truth that rape is categorically different from any other crime?
If only someone would provide poor hyper-wrong with some data or studies that show exactly this…
Oh wait… you say we have? Surely he’s read them, right? Right?
Do you have any data?
Sigh. I guess not.
Unless of course they’re being told by the popular culture that instead they should try to dwell as best they can upon their traumatic experiences.
Yup… rape trauma is purely a consequence of peer pressure and pop culture…
Done. With. You.
Desert Son, OMsays
Walton,
Hyperon . . . Just stop for a minute . . . and think
Asking a lot . . .
Still learning,
Robert
Endorsays
“Don’t loathe the, um, for lack of a better word, man; pity him.”
For my part, I do pity him. I also don’t give a rat’s ass about him. Care is reserved for the people I met everyday who have been through this, are attempting to live with it and don’t deserve to be dismissed and diminished even by such a worthless sociopathic bigot.
Don’t mistake contempt for anger, is what I’m saying.
David Marjanovićsays
I don’t understand why it should possibly be considered “offensive”. Are you saying that we should confer on rape some special kind of epistemic status, or take it as an axiomatic truth that rape is categorically different from any other crime?
We’ve explained all of this to you already, on the “oblivious white male” thread (in other words, the one about you personally). Look, I’m doing your homework for you: here is the link again.
Click on it and read.
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
Hyperon is one hella dodgeball player with how much evidence he’s dodged.
Celtic_Evolutionsays
every opinion they have is informed by nothing but a desire to be ‘politically incorrect’ and cloak themselves as mental freedom fighters.
That sound you hear is the sound of the the nail being hit squarely on the head, courtesy Brownian, OM…
Endorsays
“I don’t use the term sociopath often or lightly, but you really seem to fit a lot of the criteria.”
Carlie’s right – he needs to stay away from women. His light treatment of rape, callous disregard for others, denial of evidence and victims’ experience, power complexes, desire to be seen as the true victim. He’s a near perfect textbook example of exactly the type of guy who doesn’t hear or heed the word “no”.
Hyperonsays
Walton,
Just stop for a minute, reread your posts, and think about whether you really want to carry on with this ridiculous line of argument.
WHY is it ridiculous? Think about what you’re saying. In a nutshell, you believe it is right and proper to take for granted that “rape” cannot be compared with any kind of physical assault. You think I should take it on faith that I’m just wrong — and that’s all there is to it. End of conversation.
What do you think it is about rape that makes it so privileged? Is it the act of defiling another human being with the precious bodily fluids? Maybe the moment penetration occurs, the Form of Rape is realized in the Magic Citadel of the Clouds?
Jadehawk, OMsays
Also, as for this bullshit about my line of argument being sexist: various studies indicate that most rapes are in fact carried out on males in prisons, and go unreported.
you innumerate, hateful piece of shit, there aren’t enough men in prisons for that to be true!
and that wiki article you claim as a source? it gives between 140 000 and 43 800. it doesn’t say whether this is total or annual, but let’s be generous and assume they mean annual estimated cases.
in contrast to that, the wiki article on rape in general states this:
According to United States Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, there were overall 191,670 victims of rape or sexual assault reported in 2005.[16] Only 16% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the police (Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. 1992).[17] 1 of 6 U.S. women has experienced an attempted or completed rape.
U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1999) estimated that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, with 99% of the offenders being male.
one in six of the total female population of the U.S. is over 24 million women.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
He’s a near perfect textbook example of exactly the type of guy who doesn’t hear or heed the word “no”.
Definitely true. Considering how often the regulars have told him to go away, but he keeps forcing himself and his smelly sexist/racist/bigot agenda back on us. He appears to be functionally deaf.
David Marjanovićsays
What do you think it is about rape that makes it so privileged? […]
No, Hypermoron, that’s not it. None of that is it.
Comment 402.
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
The fact you have to even make such a ridiculous statement is evidence enough of myopic and ignorant you are.
Endorsays
“You think I should take it on faith that I’m just wrong — and that’s all there is to it. End of conversation. ”
See what I mean? There’s been how many links provided to him, but not by Walton, so that’s who he focuses this line of bullshit on. He’s too much of a coward to read anything else provided to him, so he can only say this to someone who hasn’t provided links. Cowardice becomes him.
Maybe MRA was the wrong classification. Perhaps utterly failed member of the PUA community is more accurate.
David Marjanovićsays
there aren’t enough men in prisons for that to be true!
:-D :-D :-D
Pwnd!!!
Jadehawk, OMsays
At the very least, someone like you is likely to spout off shit about how rape isn’t that bad to someone who has gone through it, and generally be a real pain in the ass about it.
he already has; that line about rape being a “temporary inconvenience”? that was a response to a poster admitting she was raped.
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
Hyperon do you work closely with women or come into contact with them regularly?
“he already has; that line about rape being a “temporary inconvenience”? that was a response to a poster admitting she was raped. ”
So, are we still confused as to why there’s not a lot of women round these parts?
A. Noydsays
Speaking of Botanical Wednesday, anyone savvy about flowers able to tell me what the fuck thisthing is? It was climbing up a trellis sometime in the (early?) fall in Seattle and the flowers were several inches across. I don’t even know where to begin looking it up.
blfsays
Hyperon do you work closely with womenpeople or come into contact with them regularly?
Anywhere?
This altered question may be more appropriate.
Brownian, OMsays
Don’t mistake contempt for anger, is what I’m saying.
Sorry Endor, I wasn’t trying to be pedantic; feel however you want about the boy. I personally think there are a lot of reasons to loathe him and be enraged by him; I’m just pointing out that wanks like him are dime-a-dozen. I personally recall no less than two such brave little thinkers writing for the college rag one year when I was in my first undergraduate; one would write inflammatory articles about how over-blown rape is, and the other would write articles justifying why East Timor needed a good invading (the arguments followed the same pattern: secretly, deep down, women/East Timor really want a good, hard man/Indonesia inside them*). Maybe mommy was too stern and daddy wasn’t a chordate; whatever the reason for their Napoleon complex, they assuage their terror by attacking groups who have been legitimately victimised through pseudo-intellectualism, allowing them to effectively be bullies while maintaining the moral superiority of non-violence. The irritating thing is that they tend to pick up disciples from that sub-group of nerds who can’t abide the fact that not only did the football captain push ’em around, but those fucking women won’t give them the time of day. “Man, I got 1388 on my SATs; how dare those uppity bitches ignore me?” say their loyal disciples, “That ugly guy over there is right; them and the darkies just love to pick on us white men.” Even worse, there are always a few women who fall for their mental warrior-within schtick.
Perhaps we should take up a fund to send him to one of those retreats where he can learn to finally embrace his Y-chromosome and stop attention-grabbing here.
Desert Son, OMsays
In re: Hyperon. At what point do Insipidity, Stupidity, Trolling, and Wanking reach critical mass?
Still learning,
Robert
Lynna, OMsays
I think this is from June, 2009 (but not dated on the web page, that I can see): http://www.rom.on.ca/media/podcasts/display.php?id=78 It’s Christopher Hitchens giving his analysis of the Ten Commandments, as part of the Director’s Signature Lecture Series at the Royal Ontario Museum.
A. Noydsays
Gah, I hate you, Tripod.
Anyone interested in helping identify this monster of a flower will have to copy and past these into the URL bar. Grr.
Well true if I was trying to find out about his experiences with women or people, but I was just wanting to find out if there was a way I could warn them that they work with a psychopath.
nigelTheBoldsays
Anyone interested in helping identify this monster of a flower will have to copy and past these into the URL bar. Grr.
Run! It’s a triffid!
Bride of Shrek OMsays
I’ve stayed out of this thread because of past experiences in my life which I have mentioned on a previous thread. It’s not painful as such to talk about it, just really goddamn tiresome to try and make a clearly deluded person see any light. I could try and argue the case for rape victims everywhere but I’d rather save my breath and try to enlighten someone who may just have a thread of humanity and be ABLE to have their opinion changed. I do however just want to poop my head in to say 2 things.
1) I am heartened by the comments here. Obviously there’s one sick and twisted individual but clearly everyone else is against his “opinions” and are soundly rejecting any of his “theories”. You have rounded on him and told him off in various forms and I think that clearly shows who has the better morals and values. You guys give me a warm fuzzy feeling sometimes and that’s why I love being part of this place.
2) I have never done this, as I always kind of found troll comments on some level amusing, but I have now activated a killfile and it’s first resident is Hyperon. I refuse to waste valuable reading time trying to understand why someone is so very, very sick in their morals but seems to persistently refuse to acknolwedge it.
Endorsays
Brownian – No worries, I got where you were coming from (and apologies if that came off as scoldy. Wasn’t my intention).
Since he is a troll, angering and hurting people is his raison d’etre, so I wanted to make it clear that, for my part at least, I’m not angry, I’m contemptuous and feel very sorry for him.
That said, I think you’re completely right on their motivations. The coddled and clueless have usually been, in my experience, the most callous.
Bride of Shrek OMsays
@ #426
.. ah “poop” my head. Rather appropriate typo I think
Well, I think we can rule out a Triffid, mostly because you don’t appear to be dead.
David Marjanovićsays
Strange, both links work for me. Does it depend on the browser!?!
Unfortunately I can’t help with the botany at all, except for a time-waster I’ll link to soon…
At what point do Insipidity, Stupidity, Trolling, and Wanking reach critical mass?
I’m not sure he’s really trolling, but the stupidity is strong in him. He seems to honestly believe that the world can’t be any more complex than his restricted imagination.
Hyperonsays
you innumerate, hateful piece of shit, there aren’t enough men in prisons for that to be true!
No, because we’re counting the possibility of multiple rapes on the same person. It does seem suspect, I admit; for it to be true, a person who’s been to prison would have to be raped about 2.8 times on average. However, Human Rights Watch estimates that about 140,000 instances of male-male rape occur annually. About 90,000 instances of male-female rape occur annually.
blfsays
I was just wanting to find out if there was a way I could warn them that they work with a psychopath.
Ah. But if our apparent psychopath is as bad as disguising his problems in person as it is in e-writing, I suspect they (if there are any who haven’t left yet) already suspect that… but still, warning them (again?) is a good idea.
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
About 90,000 instances of reported male-female rape occur annually.
fixed, dumbass.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Hypershits arithmatic skills are the same as his thinking, cognative, and empathy skills. Non-existent. Hypershit, nobody here thinks you are anything other than a smelly something to scrap off our shoes. You can’t think, you can’t find and process evidence, and you are so arrogant you can’t comprehend how many times and how badly you have been refuted. And you prentend you haven’t. Many of us teach or have done so. So we understand evidence, and what it means. It is clear you don’t. And you still haven’t proven anything other than you are a shithead.
SC OMsays
goOGle it!
Actually, here, let me gOGle it 4 U
Pill. :) Paul W. already found it. I had tried, but I thought it was internet slang so I added unnecessary search terms.
Human Rights Watch estimates that about 140,000 instances of male-male rape occur annually
Read it again.
maureen.brian#b5c92says
No, you can’t compare those two figures.
One is an extrapolation from a series of small studies. Methodology? We don’t know. The other is the FBI’s note of recorded rapes and we already that a very high proportion of rapes are never reported.
We’d also need to know the precise definition of “forcible rape” – could that be stranger rape? Also how many of the rapes reported are either not recorded or recorded in some other way? There’s plenty of research on that, too.
Apples and oranges. And your agenda is still showing.
Jadehawk, OMsays
Watch estimates that about 140,000 instances of male-male rape occur annually. About 90,000 instances of male-female rape occur annually.
so you’re not only innumerate, but also illiterate. the first number is the estimated number of all prison rapes. the second number is the number of reported rapes, which is somewhere between 37% and 26% of the total rapes(i.e. estimated total at least 250 000); other statistics say that 71 in 100 000 (that’s 102 000 for the U.S.A) women were forcibly raped per year[source].
A. Noydsays
Bah, I ask for help and immediately after try the magical search parameters that gets me a site with what I need. It’s a blue passion flower. If Wikipedia’s to be trusted, its name comes from the whole Jesus torture thing. I would have figured it came from the giant and prominent sex parts, myself. This plant clearly wants to fuck something. Passionately.
The Elizabeth passionflower and maypop on the first site are particularly awesome looking, too. The Wiki main article has some crazy ones as well. Check the P. ×decaisneana at the very bottom.
negentropyeatersays
Hyperon,
I don’t know why you hate women so much. I’m glad it’s not up to you and other misogynists to decide what is a crime.
As long as you continue to regard women as souless commodities/reproductive machines/possessions/sex devices/domestic servants you will continue to think of rape as only a physical assault on the women’s uterus, uterus that doesn’t even belong to women, but to the body politic of men.
I sincerely hope you’ll be able to take “NO” for an answer in your future dealings with women.
Kristjan Wagersays
However, Human Rights Watch estimates that about 140,000 instances of male-male rape occur annually. About 90,000 instances of male-female rape occur annually.
No. About 90,000 instances of male/female rape are reported annually (and back when the estimates on prison rapes were made, more than 100,000 rapes were reported annually). It’s estimated that a lot more are raped than that.
You can’t compare estimated numbers with reported numbers – either you estimate reported numbers in all cases, or estimated case in all cases. And the later can only be properly done if the same methodology has been used in all estimations.
maureen.brian#b5c92says
…… we already know …….
This little turd is doing my head in. I’m going back to my knitting and, believe me, you get more intelligent feedback from a ball of yarn than any of us ever will from Hyperon.
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
I sincerely hope you’ll be able to take “NO” for an answer in your future dealings with women.
As in , “No I better not associate with them in any way or fashion and should instead sequester myself to a cabin in the middle of the wilderness so that my idiocy doesn’t cause me to act out on my psychotic desires.”
blfsays
Strange, both links work for me. Does it depend on the browser!?!
Doesn’t work for me in FireFox 3.5.7; I had to copy-and-paste the URLs into the destination bar.
Ditto with Opera 10.10, also no workee.
Ditto with Konqueror 4.3.2, also no workee.
At which point I gave up. All on Linux, of course (Ubuntu 9.10).
I did not try playing with whether or not to send a referrer, which is my (naive!) guess as to what the dumbfecks on the other end are doing.
Hyperonsays
Read it again.
I wasn’t counting female inmates, if that’s what you mean. Unimportant, though. The essential point is that, just as I claimed, there is some data suggesting the possibility that more male-male rapes occur annually than male-females rapes.
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
Only if you ignore everything we know about how often rapes are reported.
SC OMsays
the first number is the estimated number of all prison rapes
It appears to be the estimated number of male prisoners who have been raped.
Jadehawk, OMsays
you know what amuses me about Hyperon citing prison rape statistics? it’s that in the thread about the university shooting, he was whining about us caring what happens to criminals/convicts and wanting better conditions for them, while he insisted that “psychos” deserved locking up for as long as possible as punishment.
interesting how that works…
maureen.brian#b5c92says
So now we know! He has fantasies about being raped by a man even more “male” that he is.
‘Night, all.
blfsays
I did not try playing with whether or not to send a referrer, which is my (naive!) guess as to what the dumbfecks on the other end are doing.
Guess confirmed: Opera 10.10 can follow the links just fine if Send Referrer Information is disabled. I’ve no idea why the dumbfecks on the other end don’t like some(? all?) embedded links. Maybe an ex-SciBorgs ITiot works there?
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Hyperon, all the data suggests you are full of shit. What else is new? Your data is bogus, just like your thought processes. Time for you to acknowledge the truth about yourself. You are a shitheaded bigot/sexist/racist. Seek professional help. You need it.
The essential point is that, just as I claimed, there is some data suggesting the possibility that more male-male rapes occur annually than male-females rapes.
so what?
Jadehawk, OMsays
It appears to be the estimated number of male prisoners who have been raped.
ah, you’re right.
Kristjan Wagersays
The essential point is that, just as I claimed, there is some data suggesting the possibility that more male-male rapes occur annually than male-females rapes.
No there isn’t. Just because you’re too stupid to understand how one can compare numbers, doesn’t mean that the numbers means what you think.
There are estimations showing that prison rape is greatly underestimated. These estimations are based upon studies, which differ greatly, and are worst-case estimates, not realistic estimates.
The FBI crime statistics are, on the other hand, the absolute lower bound of the number of rapes done to women annually.
SC OMsays
I wasn’t counting female inmates, if that’s what you mean.
It wasn’t. See #447.
Unimportant, though. The essential point is that, just as I claimed, there is some data suggesting the possibility that more male-male rapes occur annually than male-females rapes.
You’re an utter moron.
Hyperonsays
You can’t compare estimated numbers with reported numbers – either you estimate reported numbers in all cases, or estimated case in all cases. And the later can only be properly done if the same methodology has been used in all estimations.
True enough, although I sincerely doubt that unreported male-female rapes are going to boost the numbers of male-female rapes by around 55%. Anyway, all that matters here is that it is possible, in consideration of the figures we have, that more male-male rapes occur than male-female rapes (at least in the US). It’s therefore unfair to regard my opinions on rape to be somehow discriminating against women.
Katrinasays
A. Noyd, I see by the time I posted, you’d already found it.
I had to check my garden book, which slowed me down. Glad you were able to solve your mystery. :-D
Jadehawk, OMsays
I wasn’t counting female inmates, if that’s what you mean. Unimportant, though. The essential point is that, just as I claimed, there is some data suggesting the possibility that more male-male rapes occur annually than male-females rapes.
only to people who can’t tell the difference between extrapolations from limited datasets and reported cases.
SC OMsays
It appears to be the estimated number of male prisoners who have been raped in prison.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
It appears to be the estimated number of male prisoners who have been raped in prison.
Leave it to a shit for brains fuckwit to skew the data. Unfortunately for his paranoia, we, who know and understand evidence, look at the bigger picture, where his lies are exposed for the shitty thinkingunthought processes that occurred.
Sven DiMilosays
Wait, that was your point? That your attitudes about rape can’t possibly be misogynistic because under some circumstances men get raped too?
Really?
Kristjan Wagersays
True enough, although I sincerely doubt that unreported male-female rapes are going to boost the numbers of male-female rapes by around 55%. Anyway, all that matters here is that it is possible, in consideration of the figures we have, that more male-male rapes occur than male-female rapes (at least in the US).
As SC has helpfully pointed out to you (and the rest of us), the numbers reported on prison rape are not annual numbers, but total numbers, so even if we took those numbers at face value, it would still not mean what you think it means.
Given the numbers I’ve seen, the number of unreported rapes would indeed boost the amount with 55% – as a matter of fact, the estimates from FBI appears to be that only 37% of all rapes are reported (one source referring this claim can be found here) with others estimating even lower numbers.
So, to sum it up, not only are you comparing worst-case estimates with reported numbers, you are confusing total numbers with annual numbers, and you really have no clue about what estimates are out there.
Thebearsays
AS a man who has been raped – I post to confirm that a certain person in this tread should be barred from all human contact until the unlikely event that he mends his ways.
Rape is one of the most horrible things that could happen to a person. Full stop.
You don’t get to compare this like that and say “but it happens to men too, so it’s ok”. You don’t try to make it trivial by playing numbers games. Violent crime is not a game to see which sex suffers the most.
Do the world a favour: Don’t breathe another word in public ever again.
Jadehawk, OMsays
except of course it does do exactly that, and more. depending on your source, the rate of reporting rape goes from 16% to 37%. extrapolating from the number of actually reported rapes, that’s between 562000 and 243000, i.e. decidedly more than 140000 in any case.
STFU and stop trying to convince us you’re not a misogynist.
A. Noydsays
Katrina (#458)
I had to check my garden book, which slowed me down. Glad you were able to solve your mystery.
Only just, though. That was the second time I’d tried figuring it out since I took those pics, so I appreciate you taking the time to look!
Jadehawk, OMsays
how weird, It ate my blockquote. anyway, i was responding to Hyperfucks incredulity and willful ignorance about how estimates couldn’t possibly bump the male-on-female rape rate above 140000
Bobbersays
What keeps me coming back to these discussions? Because of posts like #447. That one observation, of only a few words, undercut several hundred words Hyperon has used in an attempt to justify his opinion.
Fucking brilliant.
Thebearsays
@ Jadehawk:
misogynism would be a huge step up for the fucker.
Brownian, OMsays
Wait, that was your point? That your attitudes about rape can’t possibly be misogynistic because under some circumstances men get raped too?
Really?
No, his point is that he thinks he’s an intellectual but unfunny Lenny Bruce.
Jadehawk, OMsays
As SC has helpfully pointed out to you (and the rest of us), the numbers reported on prison rape are not annual numbers, but total numbers, so even if we took those numbers at face value, it would still not mean what you think it means.
is that so? it doesn’t say so anywhere explicitly as far as I can tell, and one of the sources talks about doing an estimate one year, then repeating the study and estimate the following year. if it’s true though that would make hyperfuck’s point even more idiotically wrong.
Michelle Bsays
Hyperon does not get emotional even about the topic that is supposed to be so meaningful to him–that men have it tougher, they are abused and murdered, etc. His flat affect is overwhelmingly present all the time, even when he discusses matters supposedly close to his heart. He sounds like he is borderline psychopathic.
I can imagine when he cherry picks stats to support his emotionless opinions, that he probably just grunts with a cold-headed nod, yeah, that is what I mean exactly, men have it worse, without feeling anything at all.
One thing is sure, this guy will never hurt himself. Others, maybe.
Hyperonsays
Wait, that was your point? That your attitudes about rape can’t possibly be misogynistic because under some circumstances men get raped too?
No, my point is more along the lines of: since rape is a relatively unisex phenomenon, why is my position being denounced as a misogynistic position?
As SC has helpfully pointed out to you (and the rest of us), the numbers reported on prison rape are not annual numbers, but total numbers, so even if we took those numbers at face value, it would still not mean what you think it means.
No idea what you’re talking about. The 140,000 figure clearly relates to rapes being carried out annually.
Given the numbers I’ve seen, the number of unreported rapes would indeed boost the amount with 55% – as a matter of fact, the estimates from FBI appears to be that only 37% of all rapes are reported (one source referring this claim can be found here) with others estimating even lower numbers.
Entirely consistent with the data I cited suggesting that most rapes might be unreported male-male rapes occurring in prisons.
So, to sum it up, not only are you comparing worst-case estimates with reported numbers, you are confusing total numbers with annual numbers, and you really have no clue about what estimates are out there.
It gives us a good order of magnitude estimate — better than nothing. It makes it quite clear that rape is a unisex phenomenon, with a significant percentage of rapes being male-male. This was the only point I required. Enough with the irrelevant carping.
Anyhow, when you start getting treated like Josef Fritzl merely because you try to speak honestly about the reality of human suffering, then it’s time to get your coat. (If anyone has any interesting substantive points to offer, I might to them briefly.)
Rorschachsays
PZ sez :
I’m 52, and my dentist has finally decided that this one annoying wisdom tooth that is all mashed up in the upper right corner of my jaw must go. Gettin’ yanked either next week or the week after.
Might want to make sure the dentist’s name isn’t McLeroy !
Should we be asking for the soft menu for you at the convention dinner ?
;)
Bobbersays
I’m sorry if someone already linked to this, but the Justice Department’s statistics are extremely interesting.
The report is 10 years old, but the report is quite informative, as it compares violence against women with violence against men, as well as racial breakdowns.
Brownian, OMsays
Anyhow, when you start getting treated like Josef Fritzl merely because you try to speak honestly about the reality of human suffering, then it’s time to get your coat.
I was wrong. Fucker thinks he’s funny, too.
Endorsays
“Fucker thinks he’s funny, too.”
He uses a man who imprisoned and raped his daughter for two decades as a joke right and he’s confused as to why we think he’s a misogynist.
he’s a sick, deluded coward.
SC OMsays
The 140,000 figure clearly relates to rapes being carried out annually.
Quote the portions that clearly show that.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Shit for brains just can’t acknowledge he has nothing. What a loser. If he had real evidence, the type that a real scientist would use, it would have been presented days ago and convinced us all. But, when one is a shit for brains loser, good data is hard to come by. So, it has to be manufactured and twisted by the loser. Boring. We see that all the time from godbots and creobots. Now a sexistbot.
Brownian, OMsays
it’s time to get your coat.
Oh, he wasn’t joking about being compared to Fritzl. Yes, dear, it’s best you get your coat. You’re just too intellectually brave to be subjected to our boorishness. Make sure to shake out that coat first; never know when a member of the Muslim Cliterati PC Police might have tried to bug you.
*Sniff* [Wipes away a tear while saluting] Go, brave young patriot. I fear we shall never see a Champion of Truth such as you again, at least until next September when another batch of young turks registers for Political Science 215: Contemporary Social Issues with a bone to pick.
And don’t you worry about that cute girl who won’t give your superior intelligence the time of day. She’s probably just stuck up.
Hyperonsays
SC,
Extrapolating these findings to the national level would give a total of over 140,000 inmates who have been anally raped.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
(If anyone has any interesting substantive points to offer, I might to them briefly.)
You are a liar. People have had so many points for you, you look like a porcupine furry.
Also, better to be treated like Josef Fritzl then to be treated like his daughter.
I have to take at least three showers to get the stench and filth off of me.
killfile
Jadehawk, OMsays
Extrapolating these findings to the national level would give a total of over 140,000 inmates who have been anally raped.
Just Sayin’…
P.S.:I had to reread it, too, to notice that it was really talking about totals, not rates; but then, it wasn’t my source, I wasn’t using it to support a specious argument, and I noticed it on second reading. Hyperfuck here doesn’t even notice it when he quotes it…
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
True enough, although I sincerely doubt that unreported male-female rapes are going to boost the numbers of male-female rapes by around 55%.
Are you fucking insane? Maybe. But more likely you’re just a misogynistic asshole who wants things the way he wants them to be so he can play the oh poor males being persecuted card.
What an sad person you are.
Women who suffered physical injury in addition to the injury suffered from the rape or sexual assault reported 37% of those crimes, while only 22% of rapes and sexual assaults without an additional physical injury were reported. (Craven, D. (1994.) A Sex Differences in Violent Victimization, @ NCJ-164508, p.5. Bureau of Justice Statistics, Special Report. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice).
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Ah,shit for brains still has no substantive evidence, just his delusional manufactured and twisted stuff. Of course, since he is making the claims, the burden of proof is upon him. Total and utter failure on shit for brains part even to begin to address his claims. We decide the level of evidence, not him. He needed ten feet of data, and presented a quarter of an inch. Loser.
aratina cage of the OMsays
I do however just want to poop my head in to say 2 things. –Bride of Shrek OM
I almost died laughing because it was so sincerely said. :D Typos r r friends when they lead to laughter.
Children also tend to be homophobic. –Hyperon
Something tells me you experienced a very disturbing childhood. You haven’t defined what age group you are talking about, ruled out the cultural impact on the knowledge of children so that it isn’t a learned discrimination, ruled out something like cootie-phobia, shown that it is something that can’t be unlearned, disclosed the source of this assertion, or anything else that would be necessary to posit this conclusion.
If we took children to mean the age group 0 to 10, then you would be having us believe that kids that age actually know what sexual orientation is, which I rather doubt (although kids these days might be learning about it earlier but even if that were true then do they really know what it means or is it just a vague impression?). And homophobia still can’t be said to be innate in older children without evidence ruling out culture. It smacks of an attempt to dismiss bigotry against gays as a real concern among our species. Now, how long till you trot off and ne’er return?
Pharyngulettes and gay gentlemen of Pharyngula, your empathetic attention please: Blake (yep, that’s his name) was, I swear to the FSM, tall, dark and handsome. And did I say well-muscled? So this Registered Cardio Sonographer lay his fine forearm between my breasts (to steady his hand) while he probed my lubricated neck with a round-tipped wand about the size of (insert Josh, Official SpokesGay’s imaginative description here). –Lynna, OM
Talk about sensual— it sounds like a porn setup. I’m so glad you are doing well and back on Teh Thread!
And anybody who thinks Kidney Stones are the result of some sort of “Intelligent Design” should try them. –negentropyeater
Youch. I hope you get well soon and that the suffering is as short as possible.
Extrapolating these findings to the national level would give a total of over 140,000 inmates who have been anally raped.
Yes, you moron!
In 1996*, the year before Nebraska correctional officials told Human Rights Watch that prisoner-on-prison sexual abuse was uncommon, Professor Cindy Struckman-Johnson and her colleagues published the results of a survey of state prison inmates there. They concluded that 22 percent of male inmates had been pressured or forced to have sexual contact against their will while incarcerated.(354) Of these, over 50 percent had submitted to forced anal sex at least once.(355) Extrapolating these findings to the national level would give a total of over 140,000 inmates who have been anally raped.(356)
(Is he reading “annually” for “anally”?)
*Accepting the extrapolations, that figure would of course be significantly higher now, due to the hugely increased prison population (see Loïc Wacquant’s Prisons of Poverty). Most of that increase is poor black people, speaking out on whose behalf Hyperon has of course made his life’s work.
Daniasays
A. Noyd,
Bah, I ask for help and immediately after try the magical search parameters that gets me a site with what I need. It’s a blue passion flower.
I see you have already solved the mystery and my help wasn’t needed. Actually, I do have a few of those in my garden, so I identified the flower immediately. Beautiful flowers, delicious fruits*.
*BTW, I see that Wiki as the following to say about them:
Even though the fruit is edible, it is rather insipid when eaten raw.
Do not believe it! The fruit is incredibly sweet, unless it’s still unripe. I don’t believe the person who wrote that has ever eaten a ripe Blue Passion’s fruit.
John Moralessays
H:
No, my point is more along the lines of: since rape is a relatively unisex phenomenon, why is my position being denounced as a misogynistic position?
It’s only “relatively unisex” because you’ve dredged up prison rapes to compare with rapes in society at large.
Your main point, as I make it, it to engage in endless protestations.
SC OMsays
Just want to point out again that it doesn’t appear to be talking about rates of rape at all, but about numbers of people who were raped at least once. This would actually help Hyperon’s case if it wasn’t fatally flawed to begin with for all of the reasons we have pointed out.
Brownian, OMsays
You haven’t defined what age group you are talking about, ruled out the cultural impact on the knowledge of children so that it isn’t a learned discrimination, ruled out something like cootie-phobia, shown that it is something that can’t be unlearned, disclosed the source of this assertion, or anything else that would be necessary to posit this conclusion.
We’ve seen this before. Make vague statement that’s guaranteed to raise somebody’s ire. When called on it, provide unsourced supporting anecdotes (“Everybody knows it”, “I’ve heard stories”, “I just remember how my dad was scared of homosexuals while working in a factory to support bon bon-eating golddiggers when he was a child”) while complaining about persecution, just long enough to dig up a few statistics that don’t really apply, or shouldn’t be generalised from. Criticise any statistics or arguments against as being ‘irrelevant’. Claim more persecution. Argue about the statistics. If really cornered, claim he didn’t really claim that “all” children are homophobic, so any exceptions aren’t applicable. Claim more persecution. After a few hundred meandering comments arguing about the meaning of this study or that, what constitutes a ‘child’, ‘tend’ and ‘homophobic’, start all over again by mentioning something equally stupid like ‘nobody seems to care that men pay nearly all child support’. Rinse and repeat.
Hyperonsays
(Is he reading “annually” for “anally”?)
Right, that’s exactly what I was doing. Sorry about that. I’m wrong. In my defense, it’s hard to be on the receiving end of such a volume of hateful abuse and at the same time function with all systems optimal.
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
Using a definition of rape that includes forced vaginal, oral, and anal sex, the National Violence Against Women Survey found that 1 of 6 U.S. Women and 1 of 33 U.S. men has experienced an attempted or completed rape as a child and/or adult. According to estimates, approximately 1.5 million women and 834,700 men are raped and/or physically assaulted annually by an intimate partner in the United States. (Tjaden, P. & Thoennes, N. (1998, November). A Prevalence, Incidence, and Consequences of Violence Against Women: Findings From the National Violence Against Women Survey, @ p. 2 & 5. Research in Brief. Washington, DC: National Institute of Justice, U.S. Department of Justice.)
cicelysays
My Japanese is not that good and I worry one of them is for ‘Steam cleaning’ or something.
Okay, this is important; make sure your bathroom wasn’t engineered by one B.S. Johnson….
On the subject of B.S., reading Hyperon’s posts on how a severe beating is more traumatising for a man than rape is for a woman, an idea drifted through my mind. I’ve read and heard about guys bragging about fights they’ve been in, boasting about how much damage they were able to take, even showing off their battle scars to other guys. I don’t recall ever hearing or reading about gals bragging about having been raped. Are we to infer that being beaten isn’t, after all, all that traumatic for a man?
Hyperon, maybe you’re just miswired….
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
Right, that’s exactly what I was doing. Sorry about that. I’m wrong. In my defense, it’s hard to be on the receiving end of such a volume of hateful abuseaccurate corrections to your sociopathic behavior and at the same time function with all systems optimal.
fixed
Brownian, OMsays
In my defense, it’s hard to be on the receiving end of such a volume of hateful abuse and at the same time function with all systems optimal.
See? I’m not wrong; you’re all being so mean to me it just looks like I am.
Funny how in a discussion of physical assault and rape, getting called a racist, misogynist piece of shit somehow equals ‘abuse’.
aratina cage of the OMsays
it’s hard to be on the receiving end of such a volume of hateful abuse and at the same time function with all systems optimal. –Hyperon
We’re just holding up a mirror. Just because your words are devoid of emotion and color doesn’t mean what you say has no emotional impact on others.
Knockgoatssays
Eek, why did I unkill Hyperon? My guess is that he’s never had sex, period. That’s the only explanation I can think of why he can’t comprehend how rape IS assault. – Carlie
Of course, there is another possibility (and I emphasise, it is only that): that Hyperon has had sex, but the other person involved did not consent. Who but a rapist has so clear a motivation to minimise the awfulness of rape?
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Scorecard for the Day
Pharyngula 100
Hypershit 0
About as expected.
negentropyeatersays
I propose we call the Anal Hyperon award the Anual award for the worst commenter on Pharyngula.
And I propose that the first Anal Hyperon award be awarded to :
Wait, am I first?
This video is now stuck in my head. Again. But it’s worth it for the cute fishapod.
Tiktaalik is pretty cool and bought Shubin’s Porsche and everything, but for my money, as fishapods go, Acanthostega is cooler.
25260
Umm, maybe fish for dinner tonight. Mardi Gras food.
Pffft. Call that a suite?
Singapore Airlines first class suites…
With a separate bedroom, no less…
Oh no, a possible favorite fishapod fight? Somebody get the fire hoses…
Following Nerd’s cue…
Yes, I think we’re in the mood for tuna steaks tonight.
Bernard:
Ah yes, Singapore Airlines. They’re a few notches up from the flying cattle cars that we frequent.
We’d love to see more money poured into America’s rail system. Just imagine the level of affordable luxury us proles could enjoy.
Could Tiktaalik really have been so adorable? I’d just love to have this cutesy beast added to the half-sleeze on my left arm. It’s an image I’ll be able to look at in thirty years and still smile.
And yes, I’m playing the song on guitar now. Freaking catchy.
song’s cool, but the attempted rhyme of ‘jacket’ and ‘rocket’ grates every…time
Allow me to cleanse the palate.
First class suite, bah. Where’s my teleporter?
The Redhead mentioned something about frying some okra for a gumbo dinner tonight. There is a bag of mixed seafood in the freezer. We have planned over rice.
From the previous incarnation of the Endless Thread…..
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM
boygenius
Definitely Olympic Fever in my case. Man, was the Men’s Snowboard Cross exciting, or what? No style judges involved ofc :) Can’t wait for the women’s event.
Other people were probably gawping at little Chinese skaters being twirled overhead (spread legged). (Which is the only excitement you can get from style events like that).
I thought all the figure skaters falling down was pretty exciting, too. I seriously wondered if that rink ice was suffering the way the speed skating ice was, the way the teams were skating. I think every single team except one had a major falter that ended up with either their hand or their butts on the ice.
re Westerns
My favourite TV western was “Bronco”. Anyone else old enough to remember that (and not from reruns)? At the time, I really wanted a “manly” name like “Ty Hardin”, or “Clint Walker”.
I can still sing the theme song* which I thought was almost as good as the “Rawhide” theme song. I also liked “Cheyenne”, and “Rawhide” ofc.
As for Western actors, imho, no one came close to Lee Van Cleef, but I may be biased, having a similar nose (or it was similar, until it got broken, twice, playing rugby).
*We used to sing a parody of it, which started
Bronco, Bronco, tearing across the dotted line,
Bronco, Bronco Pain!
referring to a horrible (but ubiquitous and unavoidable) brand of toilet paper called “Bronco” that was seemingly made of greaseproof paper. Shiver. Even just remembering it makes me clench defensively. No wonder we all had skid marks in those days.
For lawyer standards, LOL!
Since Nerd brought up food I’ll open this can of worms: Is there a consensus amongst the regulars regarding eating cephalopods, especially those which appear to have evolved advanced cognitive and behavioral skills? I’m going to spend a couple of weeks in Greece this spring and expect to have many opportunities to sample the local seafood. I’ve only eaten octopus a couple of times, years ago, and at the time wasn’t aware of the research showing their cognitive abilities. I haven’t read anything that would make an appreciable dent in my appetite for calamari, but I’m a little hesitant about munching octopods. It’s much the same as my willingness to eat mahi mahi and my unwillingness to eat dolphin & porpoise. Any thoughts on the wisdom or advisability of offending the Cephalopod Overlords by partaking?
Nerd: Are you sure you’re going to fry the okra for gumbo? Okra is usually the thickening agent. . .
I was going to say “Ha!!! You haven’t experienced Communist toilet paper, still available for instance in Polish railway stations!!!”, but… greaseproof paper? :-S Shiver indeed.
Pigs are smarter. Just sayin’.
LMAO!
To be fair to Walton it does continue:
Richard Branson could tell you, but then he’d have to kill you.
Interestingly, Stuart Freeborn also knows…
That’s what she said, and hoped she avoided a couple of past incidents trying to fry okra (grease fires). The frying is the first step of the process, and it does end up as a thick seafood stew. I seem to recall Justin Wilson frying them up too.
Speaking of Tiktaalik and Shubin, tho’ it’s probably already been noted here somewhere, I really do have to say how much I loved the bit in The Inner Fish where he explains that when they found that fossil, they were, more or less, actually looking for it…
… and why they looked for it there, and why that made sense, the whole thing.
(/One more thing to remember any time some dumb-as-a-bag-o’-hammers creonutter starts claiming ‘evolutionary biology isn’t a predictive science’.)
OT– I can’t believe anyone couldn’t love Dropkick Murphys Fields of Athenry*. It angries up the blood! I feel like pouncing on a limey oppressor. But I don’t think there are any around. -Sigh-
Instead, I may just work on some MS revisions.
After I screw around on the intertoobs. Might have to listen to it again.
*I actually love every version of this song. It was my grandmother Eileen’s favorite.
David #17
Oh, I have, I have. I spent three weeks in the Soviet Union in ’89, but by then I’d learnt how to wash my arse using water. (If you got shit anywhere else on your body, eg your face or hands, would you just wipe it off with paper?)
Bronco toilet “tissue”
Carlie #13
You must have a very low excitement threshold. Wish I’d met more women like you when I was younger :)
Yeah, I’m easy.
(If that’s not quotemine material, I don’t know what is.)
Speaking of excitement, curling starts at noon EST.
Tiktaalik – a fish that can walk into your frying pan. Rev. BDC, that’s almost as good as bacon.
The fun part of curling is watching the sweepers go at it.
Forgot to add…
I even know how to turn “want” into “need”, which makes the whole thing quite a bit more polite… :-)
Toilet paper does need to be wet in most cases, especially towards the end of the procedure. But then it works.
Oh for crying out loud. They called that “DE LUXE”!?! The chutzpa! It burns!!!
Except it’s twice the size of your frying pan.
Kids these days got no respect for their great* grandparents.
(That asterisk was not a footnote asterisk. It was a Kleene star, indicating indefinite repetition of “great”.)
Rev. BigDumbChimp
Nice one :)
But Carlie’s probably fainted.
In case anyone is wondering why the hell I’m monopolising threads recently, I used to work for a SAAB dealership, and now, like PygmyLoris, I’m “overqualified” for any of the McJobs available. And I’m “too old” for anything else. Oh, well, only a few years to hang on until my pension kicks in.
From the previous thread:
People were asked if they find homosexuality “morally acceptable” or “morally unacceptable. (Those were the only two options presented.) 0% of Muslims said “morally acceptable”, compared with 58% of the general British public. My characterization that 0% of British Muslims were willing to disavow homophobia seems pretty fair and accurate. Anyway, I linked to the study so people could decide for themselves. Whatever apologetics you try to spin, you can’t get around the fact that a 58% disparity between Muslims and the general public is very, very disturbing.
That has never stopped people.
Curling? Oh my stars and garters!
Again?! You’ve got to be fscking kidding me.
Sven, is this thing accelerating?
Tik tik tik tik tik Tiktaalik
Hyperon #34
(Not sure why I’m answering you, boredom probably) but I know a homosexual British Muslim, and I just cannot believe that survey is accurate. Where did they interview these Muslims? At home, with their families around them? In the street, with their friends?
And the 42% of the “general public” (sheesh, nice “distinction”) that felt the same way probably include all the other religions. Maybe most religious people, of any religion, are homophobes?
Hyperon, your hatred of Muslim people still has nothing to do with the advantages extended to white people which are not also extended people of color.
(Except insofar as your hatred of Muslim people is a function of your white privilege.)
So we’re still watching your brain break. You couldn’t figure out what to say about white privilege, so you changed the topic. Fucking Muslims!
Yawn, Hyperon the bigoted fool still thinks we are even listening to him beyond what is required to smash his falsehoods? What a idjit.
Hyperon, we don’t give a shit about your bigoted paranoia. Why should we? The true answer:
*crickets chirring*
So you say; but I’m unconvinced that the racism or sexism that does exist is actually stronger than conscious and unconscious, formal and informal affirmative action.
Yes, well, this does not necessarily have much to do with racial discrimination, as you yourself have noticed in the past. Perhaps the legacy of historical racism is enough to account for these economic disparities.
I think I have successfully argued several times over that sexism against men can be just as blatant and harmful. The subject of rape comes up every time we debate sexism, whereas nobody seems to care that men are more likely to be targeted in acts of unprovoked violence. Nobody seems to care that in many quarters men are still expected to slave away for minimum wage in a factory, while the wife has to look after mostly sleeping children.
Recent figures suggest that in the UK, 20% of women earn more than their partner, with a further 25% earning approximately the same. Now consider that men are overrepresented in grueling manual labour, while women are overrepresented in comparatively easy jobs that hinge upon “communication skills”. Consider that a large chunk of women are willfully housewives and have no career to speak of.
In view of these things, it seems hard to see that your unsupported declarations in connection with the allegedly “profound” sexism against women are at all coupled with reality.
Carlie, don’t mention of your garters! I won’t be able to concentrate on the curling now.
Are you on chatroulette? :)
(Don’t worry, I don’t have a webcam)
….expects this thread to get very quiet for a few hours, while people check out my link :)
Hyperon #41
Right, now I’m definitely off to get that killfile link from the last thread.
Maureen,
In light of Walton’s new humanity I suggest you make the following changes to your virtual note:
“Back off, woman. You are not personally responsible for saving
WaltonHyperon from hismoments ofidiocy.”Nerd of Redhead, OM @40
Seconded + previous directed at Hyperon X 10?
Not that I care, but here’s an interesting factoid:
“While 72 percent of women in the U.K. are working, women represent only 22 percent of management jobs and 9.6 percent of executive directors.” — Institute of Management Annual Salary Survey 2000
Granted, that was 10 years ago. I couldn’t find anything more recent with 10 seconds of Googling.
The situation in the US is worse.
(OTP) Normally I’m extremely MEH about Politico, but Yea! All out favorite people in 1 spot :
************
…Ed Meese, Heritage Foundation President Edwin Feulner, Family Research Council head Tony Perkins, Media Research Center leader Brent Bozell, Americans for Tax Reform President Grover Norquist, direct mail guru Richard Viguerie, and David Keene, the head of the American Conservative Union,…
************
Here is a quote:
The document will be aimed explicitly, Meese said, at “reminding economic conservatives that morality* is essential to limited government, social conservatives that unlimited government is a threat to moral self-government…”
*************
Bummer about Meese; I actually respected him. Last I checked he was an antiprohibitionist.
Hyperon, go away. Nobody wants to even bother with your bigotry. Your refusal to go away shows some mental problems on your part, which you need to deal with outside of this blog. You have such a system available to you. Make use of it.
Opus:
Don’t worry about eating squid. The Catholics eat the flesh of their god every Sunday.
Ahhhhhhhh!
Nigel, please please please stop using factoid to mean a fact.
It actually means something that is untrue!
Oh, and I am pretty sure you data with regards the UK is correct. The situation might even be worse, as there is evidence that the economic downturn has resulted in woman being made redundant in greater proportion than men.
Recent figures suggest that in the UK, 20% of women earn more than their partner, with a further 25% earning approximately the same. Now consider that men are overrepresented in grueling manual labour, while women are overrepresented in comparatively easy jobs that hinge upon “communication skills”. Consider that a large chunk of women are willfully housewives and have no career to speak of.
Recent figures suggest that in the UK, 80% of men earn more than their partner, with a further 25% earning approximately the same.
My, Hyperon, you make such a strong case.
Many of the fields that women have been delegated towards, like wait staff and child care are not at all physically demanding and pay so very well.
And how many of those housekeepers are kept at home because their religion or culture has informed them that this is where they belong.
Yes, you have shown conclusively that the white male has lost control.
Actually, my line of thought was absolutely coherent, and not all that difficult to follow.
You asserted, without any supporting evidence, that “white people” are “privileged”. I then cited the disparity in the treatment of the BNP and mainstream British Muslims. Morally speaking, the views of the Muslims are probably even more worthy of contempt (for instance, between 10% and 20% thought the July bombings were justified; 40% advocate Sharia). The only reason for the clear difference in treatment (for instance, with Nick Griffin being insulted and ridiculed on national television) seems to be that Muslims more often than not have brown skin.
@Matt: sorry. Didn’t mean to. I’ve only half a mind on this (which is about 666 times as much as Hyperon) — I’m trying to work, but distracting myself.
It’ll Never Happen Again. Consider me chastised.
Wow!
I only did Moscow to Irkutsk (in December, stunning. Forests with every last twig totally glazed with ice, sparkling with a billion prismatic rainbows in the sunshine). Now I can complete the trip!
I am sorry, that should be: Recent figures suggest that in the UK, 55% of men earn more than their partner, with a further 25% earning approximately the same.
Such an oppressed majority.
You keep saying this, but we have evidence and you do not.
In fact this is so easy that I can just link again to the same evidence. This is modern, current racist discrimination which creates economic disparity right now.
Patriarchy hurts men too, but it’s not “just as harmful,” no.
So for example in the UK today working men make about 17% more per hour than working women.
Where’s the equivalent institutional sexism against men? Where’s the equivalent of all those lost wages and passed-over promotions? For the average person in Western society, their personal economics are the single most influential issue on both freedom and quality of life. And here we are talking about a measurable reduction in freedom and quality of life for nearly every single woman in a nation of millions. Where is the equivalent for men?
What is this, the 1950s? News, Hyperon. If a husband is working minimum wage, the wife is also working minimum wage and looking after the children, which is tedious unpaid work.
“Nobody seems to care.” And yet here I’ve worn out my shoes rustling voters to increase the minimum wage. For Hyperon, leftists simultaneously do not exist and are the worst people in existence.
So 55% of men earn more than their partner, and this is evidence that women have it better than men?
And in women’s work, they face sexist discrimination just the same as everywhere else.
Meaning they have no economic freedom, and can not simply walk away from a bad relationship like an employed man or woman can. None of the things you present as “obvious” advantages for women turn out to be so obvious on closer inspection.
Maybe if you weren’t a crank, you’d have studied before you opened your ignorant mouth again.
Still the unevidenced idjit Hyperon. You have/had nothing cogent to say. Just your paranoia. Which you need to direct to a mental health professional, not us. Bye-bye bigot troll.
Why is this necessarily the result of sexism? Doesn’t it enter you head that because men are more competitive and status-driven, we would expect them to earn more? On what basis do you assume that “50:50” is the natural state of affairs?
Hyperon, what evidence is required for you to acknowledge you are wrong? Lets see how sane and realistic you really are.
Nerd of Redhead, OM @ 40:
*Agrees*
Greasemonkey is a beautiful thing.
Doesn’t it enter you head that because men are more competitive and status-driven, we would expect them to earn more?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
The system that rewards employees displaying these male-typical traits were established by men. If the system were established by women, these male-typical traits would not necessarily be beneficial in advancing your career.
Duh.
Do you have a reference for this assertion? Also, by what rationale do you assume “competitive == higher salary”? Shouldn’t salary be based on workload and performance, rather than the personality traits of the worker?
Diane G. (#683)
It’s never wasted if it amuses me and that guy was just so full of himself I couldn’t help it. “Not-unfriendly” advice my ass. He could give lessons in being a sycophant to Stephanie Z, too. I caught a few of his comments on other threads there and if that was my blog, I’d ban him for being such a shameless suck-up. Really. I love how people over here are irreverent towards PZ. I guess it goes with the culture of both giving credit where credit’s due and chewing up and spitting out flagrant idiots. Folks here seem to have a way more accurate sense of everyone’s capabilities and expertise, including their own.
I didn’t really read enough of the other articles over there to judge whether the author is as foolishly blind about anything else besides religion, though. I don’t wish obscurity on authors who aren’t wholly obtuse.
~*~*~*~*~*~
Train stuff!
Some info from a transportation buff friend of mine who is an editor and contributor at Seattle Transit Blog. He recommends this site for helping to get better rail service going in the US and says: “in terms of replacing air travel, you want to start with city pairs that have lots of traffic between them, in ranges of 200-700 miles. 700’s kind of the outside limit for that being time-competitive. These are the corridors the USDOT wants to build. Rocking those is step one to any system.”
Watch your brain break again.
False. Evidence has been given to you dozens of times now. You ignore it all, but this is not my problem.
Twice in the last couple days you’ve been given the résumé callback study, for instance, as it was given to you months ago. You never address it.
Further evidence of your white supremacist tendencies. You are yet again using the BNP as representative of white British people. This might have been a silly mistake the first time, but the pattern is clear. You really do believe that the BNP should legitimately be taken as representative of white people. This is of course exactly what the BNP preaches.
We’ve met this very same hypocrisy from you before. Eight percent of the general British public believe in justifiable attacks on civilian targets, but you never bring this up, never complain about this. In fact if the media was so eager to attack white people as you claim, then this number should be all over the mainstream news. And yet it wasn’t.
Perhaps the attacks on your vanguard Nick Griffin are because the BNP is an organized political party with seats in the EU parliament, and thus a direct and potent threat to liberty and democracy in the West by parliamentary means as worked for Hitler and Mussolini, a real threat which a few random bombings can never match.
Jesus, Hyperon. Why are you so stupid?
I gave you a link demonstrating unequivocally that sexist discrimination impacts a woman’s ability to seek promotion.
And you ask “well how do you know it’s sexism?”
Read the fucking link!
I don’t have time for this illiterate crank if he’s not even going to read the fucking links. Have fun, folks.
I suggest emailing PZ about another few rounds of Survivor, if that’s what it’s going to take.
Hyperon, still nothing said about the evidence required for you to acknowledge that you are wrong. Your inability to describe said evidence means you are not arguing in good faith, which requires the possibility that you are wrong. Begone troll, begone bigot…
I didn’t see it, and I don’t have time to respond to every rant directed towards me. Link to the study and I will check it out.
Don’t be utterly stupid. I took them (just as I said) as being representative of British people with despicable views, comparable to the views of mainstream Muslims.
The BNP was treated much the same way even before it won seats in the EU parliament. Also there are various arguments that Muslims are at least as much of a threat to liberty and democracy. In fact, compared with Muslims globally (they’re even worse abroad — for instance, 59% of Pakistanis believe in stoning adulterers) the BNP seems positively small potatoes.
Link to the data you’re interpreting or put a sock in it. Studies have consistently shown that a fraction of about 10% of Muslims unambiguously advocate the bombing of innocent civilians. (For instance, 10% strongly agreed that the July bombings were justified, and a further 10% tended to agree.) I’m not aware that there’s anything comparable to that statistic implicating the general public.
I just read over the list of Dungeon denizens. Hyperon is Little-League material compared to those players. Man, we had some spectacular fuckwits back then. (Those were the days, heh.) Hyperon is just… tedious.
Yes. They’re tasty.
The problem is the degree to which they are being overfished (which I don’t know), and that is not an issue related to cognitive skills (albeit it’s possible predictable behaviour/habits is involved).
Hyperon, what evidence is required for you to acknowledge you are wrong? Failure to put it out there means you aren’t interested in a real discussion. That requires the possiblity of you being wrong. So, cough it up so we can demonstrate the facts and get rid of you.
Hyperion seems to miss the times when people at this blog goes after Muslim based atrocities and other people come in accusing the denizens of this blog of being racist.
Fried okra! *drool* I’ll have mine extra crispy, please.
And is doing the lion’s share of the housework, which is ditto. Plus, not infrequently, the yardwork as well.
I just fucking did, you lazy crank.
(Look at how he complains that he doesn’t have time to read all the evidence that we give him, yet he still complains that we don’t give him any evidence.)
No, you offered them as representative of white British people, full stop.
Because it was gaining power through party politics. Again, parties like this have actually presented threats to democracy in the West. Muslims have not.
Stupid, lazy, illiterate, racist, toadlicking crank! I already did!
People who dismiss or sneer at curling do not understand true sport.
I’m just saying.
The take-home message there seems to be that the risk of negotiating for a woman is greater than the corresponding risk for a man. One possible explanation might be that there are simply more men with high aptitudes (as is indicated by sex differences in IQ). Often employers will be struck by a candidate with exceptionally high aptitude: more often, perhaps, such candidates are men.
Pointing to any observed sex disparity, and thereupon crying sexism, isn’t a very intelligent way of approaching this problem.
It is certainly more intelligent and cogent than your inane, insane and bigoted approach. Now bigot, what evidence is required for you to acknowledge you are wrong? We will present it so you can quit wasting your time here.
So I installed Greasemonkey and the killfile recommended from the last neverending thread. It won’t let me killfile someone if their name is in black. Did I do something wrong?
Carlie,
Not that I’d ever quote mine anybody, but how’s that crush on me going?
— Paul “Feminist chicks dig me!” W.
So of course you blatantly lie about what the study said.
“Their study found that men and women get very different responses when they initiate negotiations. Although it may well be true that women often hurt themselves by not trying to negotiate, this study found that women’s reluctance was based on an accurate view of how they were likely to be treated if they did. Both men and women were more likely to subtly penalise women who asked for more. The perception was that women who asked for more were “less nice”.
“What we found across all the studies is that men were always less willing to work with a woman who had attempted to negotiate than with a woman who did not,” Bowles said. “They always preferred to work with a woman who stayed mum. But it made no difference to the men whether a guy had chosen to negotiate.”
Subsequent studies used actors who recorded videos of themselves asking for more money or accepting salaries they had been offered. A new group of 285 volunteers were again asked whether they would be willing to work with the candidates after viewing the videos. Men tended to rule against women who negotiated but were less likely to penalise men; women tended to penalise both men and women who negotiated, and preferred applicants who did not ask for more.”
This didn’t have to do with job aptitude; these were actors. This measured sexist attitudes — about women who seem “less nice” — and the behavior that results from those attitudes.
You are a liar and a racist, Hyperon, and I really have better things to do today. Fuck off.
I don’t know where the link is, I don’t know what the thread is in which you’re supposed to have supplied this link. I’m not lazy, I’m just not prepared to scrutinize every last post written by people such as yourself, for whom I hold not even the slightest element of intellectual respect.
Nice tactic there: spamming lots of irrelevant links, hoping that readers will lack the enthusiasm to press on the links and find out that you’re essentially lying.
Again, I followed your links, and it took me to some irrelevant study about the patriotism of Muslims. I encourage everyone else to do the same and press on his links. These kind of deceptive tactics are really no better than outright lying.
Rawnaeris, if you installed the killfile correctly, you will find [kill][hide comment] at the end of every tagline. Just hit [kill] and every statement by that person will not show up.
I didn’t see that part. Much more disturbing than I thought. Still, I’m not going to change my cosmology based on merely a single soft science study. If you have more (relevant) data, I’d gladly examine it.
Still nothing from Hyperidjit on what evidence is required for him to acknowledge he is wrong. That means he is just trolling, and is not discussing rationally, intelligently, and with appropriate respect to the evidence.
Wrong about what, sexism?
You’d have to show that the current gap in pay, of around 17%, is more than what we’d expect on the basis of the differing standard deviations of men and women’s respective IQ distributions, the higher aggressive competitiveness of men, and the time women take off work due to pregnancy. Maybe a few other factors, but I think those are probably the main ones.
otrame
I don’t think we’re either dismissing, or sneering, at curling, just joking about it being ‘exciting’ (certainly when compared to something like yesterday’s snowboard cross event, which had me shouting at the TV). Admittedly I might well have sneered at curling when I was young, if I’d ever seen it. Just as I did at bowls, which I now enjoy playing.
Curling can be tense, though. And I love that you can hear the competitors discussing tactics, and what to do next. That makes it (even?) more interesting, and educational.
Ooooh, translation time again!
Translation: “There were no chemicals or physics involved, so it’s squishy-touchy-feely and therefore not really science, nyah nyah nyah. Also, my fingers are in my ears.”
Translation: Anything short of a document from the Cabal of Rich White Males stating unequivocally that “We, the CRWM, purposefully and with malice aforethought have determined that discriminatory practices in hiring and establishing wage compensation shall be THE LAW OF THE LAND” will not constitute relevant data.
I’d write more, but I can’t for the fact that my eyes, having rolled so hard and high in their orbits, can now only see my brain.
Quoted for smarmy disingenuousness.
Very young children do sleep more than 12 hrs/day, but that means 8-12+ hrs solid work in caring for them when they are not sleeping.
By Hyperon’s metric, his own brain is “mostly inactive”.
And he’s definitely “mostly dishonest”.
Blockquote fail #90. Sorry, posting from work, but I think you can figure it out.
Au contraire… I, for one, have nothing but respect for any sport you can reasonably play without putting down your beer.
(/Softball’s cool with me, too, and for the same reason.)
Having been a stay-at-home dad for over two years with a new baby, I was a little offended by the “wife has to look after mostly sleeping children” line as well. I’ve worked 12-hour days with special needs kids who often needed to be physically restrained; I’ve pulled office all-nighters getting materials together for the FDA to approve a new glucose meter the company wanted to market; I’ve spent entire days shoveling out barn stalls and digging post holes; and I’ve been a primary care-giver and household manager – and I was pretty much equally exhausted at the end of each day. Yeah, raising kids is SOOOOO easy…
Damn, rolled my eyes too hard again, I’m getting a strain.
around here that’s referred to as John Wayne paper: rough, tough, and doesn’t take shit from anyone
and yeah, I do remember communist toilet paper
I know some people who would consider that a challenge :-p
—–
Also, Hyperon, fuck off. Your delusions of adequacy are tiresome, and your projections of your own intellectual laziness and bigotry onto the commenters here are disgusting.
From the daily idiocy that is Conservapedia: an essay on the benefits of conservatism:
“There are significant personal benefits to conservatism. It is particularly powerful and useful in combating:
obesity and other addictions
anxiety and wasting time
deceit and bias
temptation of all kinds
Example:
It is difficult for widows to remarry because there are relatively few single men available beyond age 50. Only 8% of women who become widows between ages 55 and 64 remarry, and only 2% of women who become widows after age 64 remarry.[3] Also, it becomes difficult to remain attractive as one grows older.
But at a small conservative conference in early 2010, an informal survey found a remarriage rate of nearly 100% by the conservative widows in attendance.”
Note to all widowed liberal women over 55: Just switch to conservatism to find that second or third husband.
Just ask Rush Limbaugh…
<headdesk>
Let me guess: you haven’t got any younger siblings, and you don’t remember having ever been younger than 6.
For the same job!?!
So it hasn’t been abandoned! :-)
Though… their number of MEPs is insignificant, and the EU parliament is, which is unfortunate in many other contexts, practically powerless.
Caledonian did basically get banned for being tedious, but only after 3 years or so.
Rawnaeris (#80)
I had the same problem. I think what I did was right click the monkey face at the bottom right and went to User Script Commands > Get latest killfile script. Oh, and then reloaded the page. But I could be mixing up which of the several things I tried finally worked.
~*~*~*~*~*~
Owlmirror (#91)
A great deal of which takes place at hours adults would rather spend unconscious, too.
That’s not actually quite true. It used to be the case, but the Treaties of Maastricht (1992), Amsterdam (1997), Nice (2001) and Lisbon all increased the Parliament’s powers. Its power isn’t comparable to the legislature in a parliamentary system, and it still relies on the unelected Commission to draft legislation and to implement policies, but it isn’t as weak as it once was.
Most legislation is now enacted jointly by the Council of Ministers (consisting of ministers from the Member States) and the Parliament, under the “co-decision” procedure. However, there are still some specialist areas in which legislation can be made only by the Council (in which case unanimity, rather than qualified majority vote, is usually required). The Parliament also approves the annual budget, and is entitled to force the European Commission to resign (which was threatened against the Santer Commission in 1999, who subsequently resigned of their own accord).
Ewwww…. too much information.
<headdesk>
“Cosmology“? “Soft science“?
You’re trying to rationalize. You’re engaging in wishful thinking. You’re trying to fool yourself with your ridiculous exaggerations.
Have you no intellectual respect for yourself?
ROTFLMAO!
Maybe, Tiktaalik would fit in the BigDaddySkillet which is 20 1/2 inches in diameter.
http://www.firepies.com/castiron.html
Fsckity fsck fsck!
I used to love Goldie Hawn. Why must all of Hollywood be so damn woo-woo?!
Feynmaniac @ 44,
I thank you for your kind suggestion, but no.
Look, I’m a socialist, a feminist and an optimist but I can recognise a lost cause when I see one. With Hyperbollocks there is no hope. Period.
Anyone who thinks that IQ tests measure anything much beyond the ability to do IQ tests has already had his lobotomy.
I’ve fought and won more than a few battles in the workplace and in the public arena – ‘cos I can be pretty competitive – but at 67* I think I’ll just sit here and daydream of the time when enough of us are both working and adequately rewarded again. Then we can have a whip-round and buy him a sex-change so that he finds out for himself.
* See, Frankie-babe?
David, you might as well laugh your ass off! That tp will not get be able to clean it.
Enough of scatological humor from me.
50 cm? That’s half its total length. Maybe you can curl it up tightly enough, but I doubt it – it has fairly substantial ribs. :-)
Because their entire life depends on make-believe?
If Dr Shubin would allow we could fillet it and do it rollmop style.
I used to love Goldie Hawn. Why must all of Hollywood be so damn woo-woo?!
Don’t blame me. I like Jodie Foster.
I’m not exaggerating anything; I’m just not especially swayed by a single study indicating that women “look worse” when trying to negotiate. The study is suggestive, sure, but it hardly an insurmountable bastion of fact. There are various possible explanations other than discrimination. For example, maybe it is more of a comment on the evolutionary psychology of persuasion. Maybe men are naturally better “salespeople” than women. (Wouldn’t be surprising, since men are also naturally the more unscrupulous.)
Now, I would certainly change my mind if presented with a plethora of information all pointing in the same general direction. As it stands, I think most of the data offered is exceedingly weak.
:-D
In case anyone is wondering, communist toilet paper isn’t particularly rough, and it even takes shit, but it’s so hard it rips you a new one in the process. Perfect embodiment of “no pain, no gain [in cleanliness]”.
The Department of Psychology, then, must also be a “lost cause”.
Is that so?
How strange, Not once in my life did I ever think of communist toilet paper. Now I am afraid that tonight I will have nightmares about it.
Oh, shit, the fundies reading about this are going to conflate it with atheist toilet paper!
More on toilet paper – by which I mean, more on the topic of toilet paper :)
In India they have a brand called Love India, which is usually the very last emotion you feel on any occasion that you use it.
Poor Hyperon! He has an itch in his brain and he can’t get at it.
IQ tests are a pretty self-fulfilling prophecy, all it does is show those who are good at doing IQ tests.
Compared to your total lack of conclusive evidence? Bwahahahahaha. You are such a comedian.
All this talk of communist TP reminds me that the Redhead’s favorite roommate took a trip to Poland (the roommate’s family was originally from there) circa ’70. The jeans she brought with her proved a major source of local currancy, and the TP had to be used with extreme care to avoid splinters in sensitive areas.
Did you know?
– Men are naturally bad at dressing themselves.
– Men cannot dance.
– It is impossible for men to touch their nose with their elbows.
– Men tend to be smarter than women. They also simultaneously tend to be stupider.
– Women evolved a third eye, but it’s in their vagina.
– Men naturally look sillier when naked than women.
– Men are able to fly. By themselves. But they keep getting caught up in high tension lines.
– Plato was a woman.
– Women are far more capable at reproduction than men. They are also far more accomplished at the things that make reproduction fun.
– Men are 48% more likely to assert they are right, even when they are very, very wrong.
It’s a fact!
Yeah, for instance, take white collar crime: the significant majority of offenders are male. Then of course there’s psychopaths, which are hugely overrepresented in men.
I know an office full of corporate mid-management level women, as well as a teachers’ lounge where I was the only male to listen to the concerns of a few dozen female coworkers, who would disagree with you.
Why does everyone think it’s socially acceptable to take about toilet paper on a public forum? Yuk.
Hyperon, you have a death-wish.
Have you ever been in a university psychology department? The couple of years of it I did at that level was mostly about perception, possibly because the professor was Patrick Meredith, the department was then small and that was his particular interest.
I know you don’t read links – or anything which requires a reading age above 7 – but persons of genuinely inquiring mind might care to check out what’s currently going on at my alma mater – University of Leeds. That’s Leeds, dear, not Leeds Metroploitan.
A multiplicity of degree options at all levels are there for your delectation but no-where do I see a BSc Psychology (IQ Tests).
Now, go and check it out.
Sorry, “take about” should have read “talk about”. In my defence, I’ve had a bad few days.
I must agree with the pro-curling comments above. It is one of the few times that I regret not having television reception.
I’m not sure there’s anything that isn’t socially acceptable to talk about on the Endless Thread…
Walton, a typo? Just blame it on Rev. BDC’s typo cooties.
On an open thread, anything is fair game. And horror stories of communist consumer goods is certainly fair game.
Hyperon
Possibly for the same ‘mysterious’ reason that the majority of crime by coal miners is committed by men.
I suppose you’re going to tell us that’s all the fault of women too, driving poor men crazy?
As you can see, I haven’t got the killfile working yet ;)
Walton
Aw, what a sensitive little thing you are. Personally, I think it’s the perfect topic companion to Hyperon.
Yeah, and you can’t find a BSc Physics (Time-dependent perturbation theory), either, for that matter. That doesn’t mean that time-dependent perturbation theory isn’t an indispensable tool.
I’m afraid IQ is bread and butter for psychologists, whether you like it or not. Beyond doubt, it is an extremely potent predictor.
Walton, do you like the roll to go over or under?
Hyperon,
I could prove you wrong but I really can’t be bothered.
We can Bardify the conversation, perhaps, to make it more palatable:
Yea, Lord Walton, thou hast no stomach for the fecund fecal frippery whereby the good citizens hereabouts amuse themselves. What, have you not the stones worthy of the coprolitic grind of your kinsmen?
(I am SO sorry, Mr. Shakespeare, I know that sucked.)
Yes, of success in taking tests. Period, end of story. Still no evidence fool. What an idjit bore/bigot.
Irrelevant figure 51 of the Gallup Coexist Index 2009: 92% of British public say attacks on civilian targets not justified. That 92 was what I said before; today I thought 100-92=8, but 2% aren’t sure. However the 92% includes ‘never’ and ‘rarely’ -type answers, and I suppose it’s safe that more than 2% said rarely. (In this case replies 1 and 2 are a group, 3 is a group, 4 and 5 are a group. Threes are perhaps imagined the best return on investment.)
If you know nothing about the predictive usefulness of IQ, then check out the Wikipedia entry and follow the given links and references. I’m under no obligation to act as your personal tutor.
Why do I have the sudden urge to cram a copy of The Mismeasure Of Man in Hyperon’s cranium? And after that, toss out some of the rocks therein to make room for The Mismeasure Of Woman?
Strange Gods,
The figures for Muslims are much more extreme. You have 10% of them “strongly agreeing” that the July bombings were justified, with a further 10% of them “tending to agree”. Some of them said they didn’t know. All in the study I linked to in the previous thread.
Hyperon, only a fool would accept you as a tutor.
I like that book, although the section on IQ is notoriously controversial. The business about “reification” was just total nonsense. (All that matters is predictive usefulness — we don’t have to hold IQ represents anything, or is anything other than a helpful predictor.)
Of course, that could be because Muslims are an oppressed minority, and therefore are more likely to think extreme measures are justified.
Yawn, Hyperon, why are you persisting in believing we are interested at all in your bigotry? You are not and will never be an authority to us, as you lack the appropriate evidence. So you are just wasting your time here.
Is there a molecular biologist in the house? Seems like peer review was asleep at the wheel again.
Hyperon,
I just read your comment about soft science studies being unconvincing, so I wanted to stop by and apologize for having posted in the past links to articles in peer-reviewed journals about psychological studies, sociological studies, and anthropological studies offering evidence of things like the effects of sexism, racism, and so forth.
Had I realized at the time that you weren’t going to look at them, much less recognize them as showing evidence, I wouldn’t have bothered, and would have saved myself, and you, the time.
Given that you’re not interested in the evidence supplied to you, and given what you said about rape, and given your repeated efforts to seat yourself firmly in the white male Euro-American mind circa 1952, I’m afraid all I have left is a turn of phrase sometimes heard in the geographical region in which I now reside.
It goes a little something like this:
Hyperon, I wouldn’t cross the street to piss on you if you were on fire.
Still learning,
Robert
Could be. Hypothesis non fingo, and all that.
That is a small minority of the population. 6% of 60 million is more people than even 20% of 3 million. Priorities are smashed like everything else in the hands of a troll. You don’t have Muslim fanatics winning 940,000 votes in Britain, do you?
Lazy, and now intellectually irresponsible in this accusation.
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I’m still waiting for this data implying that anywhere near close to that percentage of the British public advocate terrorist attacks. I followed the links you gave and was led to a completely immaterial study about Muslim patriotism.
Prime autopilot. Set loop and repeat. Engage.
Oh, but you do.
Not on this topic, but on the topic of sexism. I blithely used the same sort of ad hoc reasoning you use to explain the extremely significant disparity between female and male salaries (and by extension the significant disparity between female and male management).
I’m still not sure what you are trying to prove with these figures, anyway. More Muslims think the bombings were justified. Ok. If you have no hypothesis why they support the bombings, what exactly are you trying to prove?
Well, your reasoning IS ad hoc, because I could point to data from countries in which Muslims are the majority, and are even more out of control. (For instance, 59% of Pakistanis believe in stoning adulterers.)
My hypothesis that there are sometimes significant sex differences between men and women, which might result in differing levels of pay, is not at all ad hoc, and is indeed buttressed by evolutionary psychology.
Now I can see why so many are against evolutionary psychology for its “just so” stories.
Cool. Have a link that indicates that women perform poorly on the job due to evolutionary reasons? I’d really like that.
Evolutionary psychology needs buttressing itself before it can lend support to something else.
Fixed it for your Hyperon. You can’t do anything right.
Come to think of it, my reasoning isn’t as ad hoc as all that. It’s buttressed by much modern psychology.
Hyperon is reminding me of all the trolls who come by with an idea they think scientists should look at. The one thing they, and Hyperon, needs to do, is to develop the idea, find the conclusive supporting data, and publish it in an appropriate professional journal with peer review. That is how science works. This blog is not the place for the ideas to be developed, and it certainly doesn’t count as published. And we certainly aren’t interested in Hyperon’s inane, insane, and bigoted ideas.
Strange Gods,
As you said, I checked out Figure 51 of the Gallup Coexist Index 2009. Your argument simply doesn’t seem very compelling. The question is ambiguous: it asks whether attacks on civilians CAN be justified. Is it asking in the context of recent terrorism, or is it going for something more general and philosophical? If the latter, I would probably myself agree that, in principle, attacks on civilians can be justified. (E.g. I can imagine that some level of strategic bombing might have been necessary in WW2.)
Compare this with a poll in which the wording is less ambiguous. Here we see that 11% of Muslims “strongly agree” that the July bombings were justified. A further 11% tend to agree; 17% “don’t know”.
Abstract from Blake’s link @#144:
WTF?
idk wats worse, that theres a tiktaalik song, or that i watched the whole thing and enjoyed it.
No idea why people are bothering with Hyperon. He’s never read any source people link, even though he asks for sources. He’s transparently trolling.
Laden’s tried to wash his hands of the whole kerfuffle over the last few days, but I saw a comment by “Lorax” on one of his newer throwaway posts that just epitomizes why he deserved (and still deserves) to be castigated for the bull he pulled.
The thread was regarding a Cthulu-themed search engine. Laden posted a disclaimer, mentioning that he’s reluctant to reference Lovecraft because of implicit and explicit racism in his works. To which, Lorax responds:
This is the result of Laden’s horribly dishonest framing of the situation and slandering of anyone who isn’t himself or a rabid sycophant. It was deliberate, and he should truly be ashamed of himself. In less trivial cases, he seems oblivious to the fact that several commenters over the threads came to the conclusion that SC was an anti-Semite solely based on what Laden said and her feeling the need to defend herself from potential libel even though he claimed he was only referring to what people other than himself might think by those words, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy that he takes no responsibility for aside from a nopology that people might have had hurt feelings.
And that’s not even getting into the situation with Josh/Sven and that whole can of worms…
Oh, in other news apparently Laden’s in the hospital. Condolences.
Blake Stacy @145: I wasn’t able to read any more than the abstract of that paper; my university doesn’t subscribe to Peptides, and this looks like an advanced online publication. It still doesn’t show up in the primary database that I use, Web of Science. Be that as it may, my limited reading on the topic suggests that this sentence “Current theories have proven inadequate to explain the origins of biological information such as that found in nucleotide and amino acid sequences” of the abstract is far from the consensus. There are several non-wooish theories to explain a non-random origin of the genetic code. If you want a delightful account targeted at an informed layperson, the second chapter of Nick Lane’s book Life Ascending: Ten Great Inventions of Evolution provides a synthesis of theory up to 2009. Two interesting papers from scientific literature are:
Freeland, S.J., and L.D. Hurst. 1998. The genetic code is one in a million. Journal of Molecular Evolution 47(3): 238-248.
Copley, S.D., E. Smith and H.J. Morowitz. 2005. A mechanism for the association of amino acids with codons and the origin of the genetic code. Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, USA 102(12): 4442:4447.
I hope this helps.
One of my daughter’s good friends was murdered in the London July 7th bombings (fucking bastards!), but I can’t bear to hear Hyperon’s opinions on the subject.
I also remember a gang of youths throwing bricks at her and screaming “Fuck off Paki!” when she was 14 months old. (Almost needless to say that there is no Pakistani blood in her). My children still get that sort of thing, 30 years later.
An obvious lie. Several of my posts in this thread have dealt with the sources Strange Gods has referred me to.
Has Professor Myers seen the article about him on Uncyclopedia?
I’ll retract and apologize based on recent evidence (I had not refreshed the thread recently enough). I’ll also note that said evidence was provided previously, with you ignoring it and spouting the same racist BS in this thread until he linked it for you multiple times.
On balance, you’ve still ignored and obfuscated much more than you’ve actually engaged in meaningful dialogue. My confusion as to why people keep bothering is still intact based on your abysmal signal to noise ratio.
Owlmirror (#160):
My thoughts exactly.
Antiochus Epiphanes (#163):
Thanks for the literature pointers. I looked into the origin-of-the-genetic-code area a few years ago, but it’s been plenty long enough for my memory to muddle the details.
I got a copy of the Peptides paper from a colleague with access to an institutional journal subscription. It . . . is less than impressive. Terms like “information” are thrown around rather sloppily, and the biochemistry looks suspect (peptide sequences treated as distinct might actually be equivalent, because the substitutions just swapped one amino acid for another of the same hydrophobicity and general stereochemical character, etc.). Of course, nothing in the paper actually justifies claims about “intelligent design” or “specified complexity”.
Rubbish. I’m not obfuscating about anything, and if I have overlooked any links or evidence, just post it again and I’ll check it out.
Oh, yes, the Peptides paper claims that information theorists use “specified complexity” as a measure of information content. They don’t, and they have no reason to. Needless to say, this assertion is not supported by a citation — not even a single footnote.
Bull. Fucking. Shit. You couldn’t write a clear evidenced idea if your life depended on it. You and evidence are strangers. Hence your bigotry and sexism. And still we aren’t interested, other than to get you to go away.
Things have certainly changed since the first of an annual series of Olympian Games*, held in 1850 for “every grade of man”. (As in the Athens Olympics, women were not welcome to take part.)
The following lists the 22 events with PRIZE MONEY – highest first prize £5, dropping down to the lowest children’s first prizes of 3 shillings. Sometimes there would be a fun contest to amuse the crowds – for example a wheelbarrow race! (This is for 1867 – the programme of events varied.)
1. Football (not more than 20 on a side).
2. Foot race – 100 yards, for boys under 14 years.
3. Foot race – 60 yards, for boys under 10 years.
4. Foot race 1 mile
5. Running high leap
6. Running long leap
7. Standing long leap
8. Throwing the cricket ball (distance)
9. Foot hurdle race, half-a-mile over 7 hurdles.
10. Foot race 200 yards open to residents of the Parish
11. Tilting at the Ring on horses.
12. Glee singing: each competing party to select its own glee. All competitors will be required to join in singing the ode to the Victor in the Tilting Match immediately after that contest. Copies of the Ode and of the music will be furnished on application.
13 Foot hurdle race, 1 mile over 14 hurdles
14. Foot Race, half-a-mile open to farm labourers living within 7 miles of the Guildhall. N.B. Competitors must satisfy the Judges, either by certificates from their masters, or by such other evidence as may be required, that they are farm labourers.
4 events open only to limestone quarrymen and limeburners in the Parish:
15. Throwing the Hammer.
16. Putting the Stone.
17. Foot race, 400 yards.
18. Throwing the Quoit (distance).
Finally, 4 events open only to pupils at the local National School:
19. Writing (boys).
20. Arithmetic (boys).
21. Knitting (girls).
22. Sewing (girls).
Of all these events, it seems to me that Glee Singing (12) and the school pupils events (19-22) were the only ones where “style” had any bearing.
* Have you been told that the first Modern Olympic or Olympian games were held in Greece in 1896? You were told wrong. In 1994 His Excellency J A Samaranch, President of the International Olympic Committee, ” … came to pay tribute to Dr Brookes who was really the founder of the Modern Olympic Games.”
Where did the President of the IOC come to pay homage to the founder? To Much Wenlock, a small town in Shropshire, England. Old timers on The Thread will remember Much Wenlock from when I rabitted on about the Much Wenlock Limestone Formation and corals reefs on Wenlock Edge.
In June 1881, the Greek newspaper, the Clio, reported that, ‘Dr Brookes, this enthusiastic Philhelline [lover of Greece long before John Revolting] is endeavouring to organise an international Olympian festival to be held in Athens …’
Dr Brookes’ failing health (he was born in 1809) prevented him from further active involvement abroad but Baron Pierre de Coubertin visited Much Wenlock to see what Dr Brooks had achieved and wrote in December 1890 in La Review Athletique, “If the Olympic Games which Modern Greece did not know how to establish again is revived today, it is not to a Greek that one is indebted but to Dr W P Brookes.”
More information about Dr Brookes, the Wenlock Olympian Games and Much Wenlock is available on the internet. e.g.
http://www.wenlock-olympian-society.org.uk/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/shropshire/features/2004/08/william_penny_brookes.shtml
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenlock_Olympian_Society_Annual_Games
Women’s Snowboard Cross
Just as in yesterday’s Men’s event, the winner tonight, was clearly the best. The rest of the placings, from qualifying to the Silver were a glorious lottery :) Marvellous mayhem.
Two great boarders who fully deserved their Golds.
A damned good sport, and damned good Sport.
OK, the gist of the “Protein information content” paper is as follows:
The author takes the amino-acid sequence for human calmodulin and breaks it down into five-unit segments (pentapeptides). Each pentapeptide is then looked up in the human proteome (pir.georgetown.edu/pirwww), and the number of matches counted. PubMed is searched for papers mentioning each pentapeptide. Sequences which show up in PubMed as having a “crucial role in biological processes in humans” (author’s words) have, the paper reports, low match counts.
(My hedging in the previous sentence is because I’ve been spot-checking those match counts against the PIR, and my numbers are coming out different, but the paper is so obscurely worded that I can’t tell if I’m searching for exactly the same thing.)
If you fail to see how this represents a challenge for “current theories” about “the origin of biological information”, well, join the club.
Alan B – I think The Wenlock olympian Society will get a bit of official recognition in the London Games (One of my sprogs works for the 2012 Olympic Delivery Authority, and has met them).
Have you read
True Brits: A Tour of Great Britain in All Its Bog-Snorkelling, Shin-Kicking, and Cheese-Rolling Glory?
A good giggle, and guaranteed to confirm any foreigner’s image of the “eccentic Brits”.
Yes, that’s the worst part of it. Once the accusation is out there, it takes on a life of its own, and the further people are from the facts of the case the more likely they are to believe it. And the suggestion that in a situation in which people have been wronged that everyone, including the wronged parties, should just get over it and move forward should be abhorrent to anyone with a sense of justice.
I won’t mention that to anyone who already suspects me of being a witch. Ay. Speedy recovery.
***
Re Hyperon, I’ve been feeling guilty about not participating in the smackdown. If only I were Catholic, I could give up dealing with people like that for Lent. I mean, Snorzel says that’s what Lent’s about, and he’s had a Catholic upbringing, so… Now, some Catholics I know might find his Lenten indulgence somewhat odd, but I say, you go, Chad!
Wow! So, social sciences are soft (except for IQ based psychology), but evolutionary psychology is real science. I guess you get to pick and choose when you’re a bigot merely interested in a veneer of scientific support for your a prior conclusions.
#74 Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM said:
I wonder if these outsiders would care to define what race is Islam? “Racism” is a much-misused epithet, at the same level IMHO as calling someone “Nazi”.
According to Ibrahim Hooper, CAIR spokesperson:
Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nigeria are the countries reputed to have the largest number of Muslims in their population. Egypt is the next and the first Arabic country on the list. Arabic countries have a combined population of c. 400 million against a worldwide Islamic population claimed to be in excess of 1 billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_majority_countries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_countries
Having just spent four years in Naples, Italy, we’ll be celebrating Carnevale tonight with Neapolitan Carnevale Lasagna (it has meatballs in it).
Also, the threads are much shorter with Hyperon killfiled.
Oh. My. That is simply made of win.
Must… Resist… Urge… To… Quote… Spoilers…
(/And… To… Talk… Like… William… Shatner…)
#176 Ring Tailed Lemurian
No. I haven’t read that particular book. Many of these local customs go back a long time. The title misses out the great and noble contest of gurning:
He suffered a sad and tragic end:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurning
http://to55er.wordpress.com/2009/05/29/
[Ed. Alan B on a good day …]
Well, I can take credit for a few parts of it myself. (I’ll leave everyone to figure out which bits I wrote.) :-)
Uncyclopedia… Walton, congrats to you and anyone else involved in the PZM bit. I’m now reading the “intelligent design” link in that article, next I’ll follow the George W Bush link, I think. Still giggling.
Come on. We’re not talking about shit, we’re talking about toilet paper.
And toilet paper is a basic necessity of life. Everyone needs toilet paper.
<sing chorus=”childish”>
Auf dem Donnerbalken
saßen zwei Gestalten
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der dritte,
setzt’ sich in die Mitte,
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der vierte,
und der Balken klirrte,
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der fünfte,
der die Nase rümpfte,
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der sechste,
und der Balken ächzte,
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der siebte,
und der Balken kippte,
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der achte,
und der Balken krachte,
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der neunte,
und die Scheiße schäumte,
uuuund sie schriiiien nach ||: Klopapier, :||
und dann kam der zehnte,
brachte das ersehnte
Kloooo-paaaa-piiiier!!!1!
</sing>
Translation tomorrow, too tired to do it now. If you’d like to practice your German in the meantime, keep in mind that many of the rhymes are a bit off (especially sechste and ächzte hardly even sound similar).
The really interesting thing about this song, however, is the tune. It’s pentatonic – only five successive tones occur in it –, like Hungarian folk music. It differs from the latter in only two things: it’s in major rather than minor, and the last two notes aren’t among the five tones of the rest of the tune (but then, of course, the last three notes are tacked on and not really part of the tune anyway).
I’ve known this song for about 20 years now, and only noticed that the tune is pentatonic today…
Which one has the sheet coming off on the right side ( = above the roll)?
Bizarre indeed. I’ll try to find the journal tomorrow; the acknowledgments should be interesting, if I have access to the paper.
Also bizarre that the single author writes “we”. Only the French do that anymore (and then use singular adjectives to refer to themselves, LOL).
LOL! I especially like the this out.
La revue athlétique, I bet?
That may be part of the reason why it got published…
:-D
Walton has a secret double life! Soon we’ll find out he has layers and layers, like a Jadehawk :o)
OH MY GOD TEACHING ONLINE TAKES SO MUCH TIME, Y’ALL.
Sorry, I just had to get that out. Back to my lecture notes.
“The author takes the amino-acid sequence for human calmodulin and breaks it down into five-unit segments (pentapeptides). Each pentapeptide is then looked up in the human proteome (pir.georgetown.edu/pirwww), and the number of matches counted. PubMed is searched for papers mentioning each pentapeptide. Sequences which show up in PubMed as having a “crucial role in biological processes in humans” (author’s words) have, the paper reports, low match counts.”
Most of the recurrences of pentapeptides would be noise, that’s just basic statistics. What he seems to be saying is that five character strings with low frequency in the human proteome are more likely to be biologically significant, which is…trivial. At least from my non-expert perspective.
Nigel:
This is simultaneously the most intriguing and the most disgusting thing I’ve heard all day.
Bravo!
I was struck by Hyperon’s statement that I’m not going to change my cosmology based on merely a single soft science study.
His choice of words is more than unusual. Cosmology is usually defined as the study of the universe in its totality.
What Hyperon is really saying is that one of the foundations of his universe is the ‘fact’ that white males are oppressed. He can’t cope with questioning such a basic assumption, hence this demonstrated inability to logically process all of the information he’s been given.
He also probably cannot finish this famous quotation: “There are none so blind. . .”
Yep, he’s here to preach the gospel according to the idjit bigot. Trouble for him is, we aren’t listening…
Sociology is a significant softer subject than psychology, yes. It’s much more difficult to study societies as a whole than common human characteristics, and much more open to ideological biases. Testament to this is the prevalent dogma that any disproportionality between groups is sufficient evidence of discrimination. Perhaps if they were more statistically rigorous they would not fall foul of this elementary fallacy.
Anyway, I’m not saying we can ignore studies in sociology. My point was only that a single study, with unspecified sample size, isn’t very impressive. I need more evidence before I would consider changing my mind.
Hey fuckwit. You have it totally backwards, like the asshole you are. We don’t have to prove you wrong. You are wrong until your prove yourself right. Welcome to science. Now, you get to show us skeptics with hard core evidence that you are right. And we are very, very, very skeptical of your inane, bigoted and insane claims. So, you had better have some real good evidence. Otherwise, do yourself a favor and shut the fuck up.
You apparently don’t understand the concept of a null hypothesis. Based on the evidence I already outlined, my position is, for me, the null hypothesis. To argue that I shouldn’t do this, you need to provide, for starters, an actual argument.
More importantly, this kind of debate is not centered around “proofs”. These questions can be hard to resolve indeed, and there is inevitably a great deal of uncertainty surrounding many issues.
Fuckwit, I am a 30+ year practicing scientist. You don’t tell me anything about the null hypothesis, which is you are full of shit until your prove yourself right. Now, you have to convince this blog you are right with scientific level evidence. Put up or shut the fuck up. Welcome to science. The ball, and evidence, is in your court. Start putting up or just go away.
Hyperon @194 is amusing; tells Nerd: You apparently don’t understand the concept of a null hypothesis.
Blake #171: Thank you for that reference. I love the last sentence of the abstract. Reading on…
Yeah, and not a very good scientist, I think. I remember that after being insulted by you continually, and relentlessly accused of ignorance of science, I asked you an elementary question about electric fields. As I predicted, you were utterly unable to answer.
I couldn’t give a brachiating fuck about you or your qualifications and credentials. You’re only as good as your arguments and ideas — and you don’t have any. There’s no dearth of people out there who are high on experience and low on aptitude. You almost infallibly deal nothing but the most repetitive and unimaginative series of insults to be found on this blog, and you never have content to add to the ongoing discussion. I think that is more of a reflection on you than anything you put on your CV.
It doesn’t matter what you think. You are a blinking idjit, whose opinion we just simply don’t care about. and you and we know it. If you can’t support your premise, the option of shutting the fuck up us always open to you. We, and I mean we collectively, have been telling you that for ages.
We don’t give a flying fuck for you inane, insane, and bigoted ideas. But you have to try to shovel them down our throats like the idjit you are. What part of we are tired of you don’t you comprehend? You have nothing to offer if you don’t have evidence. So, put up or shut the fuck up.
You’re reading too deeply into it. I just thought it was a quaint choice of words. But yes, to me it is indeed a pretty basic assumption. I don’t remember encountering any significant examples of sexism against women. I do remember my dad having to slave away in a factory for close to minimum wage; and I do remember hearing lots of stories about women marrying for money they haven’t earned; and I do observe that Amnesty International has a campaign to stop violence against specifically women, despite that men are always more likely to be targets of unprovoked violence. I also can’t help noticing that almost nobody seems to care.
Yep, the basic assumptions and words of a bigot. If you don’t like being called out as a bigot, you can go elsewhere. The ball is in your court. I, and almost all the regulars, strongly suggest you take a permanent leave of absence from here.
oh, I want to see a big, fat citation for that one.
That’s what happens when you hit your ball into the rough.
David M. @ 185: Also bizarre that the single author writes “we”.
Perhaps, anent the less disgusting of two recurring primate-related subjects on this thread, he has a turd in his pocket.
*blink* *blink*
…
Wait. I get it.
You were raised by the Amazons on Paradise Island. That must have been tough, man.
Virtually everything this fuckwit writes is sexism against women.
An example of sexism against women I recently encountered on the internet:
You heard stories?! Wow, how fucking convincing you incredible hypocrite.
Another example:
Of course, women are never subjected to violence. Partner abuse must also only affect men. Women are never beaten by men. All female domestic violence victims are making it up.
Psychology is comparable to sociology in terms of rigorousness of the science. That you don’t seem to understand that is a sign of your feeble mind, not a failing of sociology.
You’re an outright sexist, who, for some reason, needs to believe that he is oppressed by women and minorities. This is simply not true. Asshole.
Oh, Hyperon thinks he’s beset upon by thugs everywhere. He called me one once, and I haven’t broken a single one of his teeth.
The poor little brat’s too scared of the Arab boogeyman that might be hiding under his bed to give a shit about anyone but himself or people in anecdotes near enough to him that he can fancy himself persecuted. Next we’ll hear that mean ol’ female teachers taking away poor white 7-year-old boys’ security blankies is the biggest social problem in England right now though nobody ever talks about it (proof of the hidden darkie gynocracy.) Of course, it didn’t happen to him, but to a close friend of his…
Brownian, OM,
You owe me a new laptop! hidden darkie gynocracy I’m still laughing.
Is it just me or do some of the male figure skaters look bored during their routines?
It’s cool to look bored. But they’re really excited that they’re at the Olympics.
Still #147, irresponsible, crankish.
Don’t forget terrified. Why, look at the poor boy; he’s positively shaking.
Don’t worry dear boy, mommy will be by to tuck you in and she’ll shut the curtains on those nasty Muslims, now won’t she? Yes she will, because she loves her little boy with skin so white, even if the rest of that mean, nasty ol’ world is just waiting with its nasty turbans and its menacing labia to call her little snookums nasty words like ‘sexist’ and ‘racist’.
I am reminded of these:
http://www.heatherfirth.com/EE006.html
http://www.heatherfirth.com/EE019.html
http://www.heatherfirth.com/EE020.html
http://www.heatherfirth.com/EE021.html
(I have no idea if these are safe for work or not… )
That’s a catchy tune.
Hey, some moron vandalized the atheist sign in Sacramento!
http://www.sacbee.com/latest/story/2540576.html
So, Hyperon, that I know a woman who was punched in the face and stabbed repeatedly with a screwdriver by a guy who decided–for no reason at all–to rape her, does that count in your book as a crime equal to those men suffer?
Somehow, I doubt it, you disgusting piece of filth.
PZ, this misogynistic, racist, fascist creep has got to go. That remark implying that rape is lesser than a guy getting beaten up–it’s way too far over the line.
The Haitian adoption furor having temporarily subsided, some news investigations are looking into more “orphan” adoptions from other countries. Here’s
CBS News on Ethiopia.
Over.
Death to the underers!
(Deeeeeep riiiiiifts)
Funny Uncyclopedia article !
nitpick :
I know time seems to fly when you have no social life and spend all day and night on the toobs for years, but that was 2008 :-)
:D
*cough*
toilet paper + deep “rifts” = not where I wanted my mind to go just before going to sleep.
#185 David Marjanović
Do the French not use capital letters in proper names, like reviews, journals?
I was quoting exactly what was said in the information before me. Perhaps I could have put sic to show that.
Hee hee. Awesome.
I spend a bit of time browsing this thing again yestereve, after reading that… Favourite bit I think so far (and oh so topical) was on the winter Olympics: ‘25% of the “sports” involve putting on a helmet and falling downhill for awhile… Medals for these events are sent to the widows and widowers of the competitors…’ And see also the quote from ‘Everyone from Ecuador’…
Speaking of, raves in this thread are starting to make me feel a bit silly that somehow, I’ve seen almost none of the events as yet…
Now, in my defense, part of the reason is I’ve actually been doing some of those sports during the time I might otherwise have been watching them, and I rather more like doing them than watching them.
Anyway, my point is, I might have to make a point, after all, seein’ as it does sound like it’s been real…
(/Tho’ as this may involve actually entering the same room as my wife, who’s been monopolizing the PVR and the couch in front of it, as late, I dunno… Umm… You can watch these online, somewhere, too, right?)
/depressed mode
I have a slight suspicion that there might be an inverse relation between length of time spent on Pharyngula and duration of meatspace relationships…:-)
Or maybe it’s just that if you spend most of your time here, you’re already doing that because you’d rather not spend time with your partner…
Of course this comment is purely speculative and does not refer to any actual posters here, myself included ! ( too late for me LOL, that ship has sailed)
/end depressed mode
For me, the ship sunk before it even left the harbour. :-(
Rorschach
ha ha ha ha ha. Got it in one.
God I sound like a cynical bitch ( probably cause I am one)but really, just prior to separation I can tell you it was soooo much more fun here than in meatspace.
Of course now I’m a single bird , I’m just here to pick up blokes.;-)
Hyperon is wrong. But I don’t think he should be banned.
I would only ever advocate the use of the banhammer for those who are spamming threads, copying the same post over and over, and making it impossible to have a conversation. The only examples I can think of are M*bus and “Global Warming is a Scam” (not counting the various spambots who litter old threads with links to furniture sites and the like).
I don’t think a person should necessarily be banned for having offensive views, as long as he or she is (a) saying something which, at minimum, is comprehensible and possible to argue with; (b) actually responding to criticisms; and (c) not spamming multiple threads with identical crap. Hyperon meets these minimal criteria. So, admittedly, did a number of other people who have been banned, such as Piltdown Man; but, as is well known, I was opposed to the banning of Piltdown.
Lynna @ the previous Thread TM,
Thank you for the lead. I sent you an email w/my contact info. Please forward to your project manager. I love doing custom cabinet and furniture projects. Soo much less boring than the standard finish carpentry drudgery I find myself doing these days.
I swear I wasn’t talking about you, I wouldn’t know !! The comment was rather, shall we say, autobiographic…:-)
You seem to have a fan already, on the “Coordinating” thread LOL !
Hey, baby, come here often?
What’s a nice girl like you doing in a place like this?
.Respectful Insolence wouldn’t have me.
Orac’s loss is my gain. ;-)
Jebus, boygenius, what do you think this place is, one big f’ing Woodstock ???
;)
Here’s one big f’ing Woodstock. Just look at that pecker.
Sometimes.
It’s all Ichthyic’s fault. He finds romance here and now everyone’s hoping they’ll get lucky.
On that I agree ! Let’s just blame it all on him..:-)
As long as they don’t stop showing Law&Order reruns on Foxtel, I be fine thanks.
The whole romance thing was made up by Hollywood to make you watch “Titanic” and “Gone with the Wind”, anyway.
Well, I’d just like to say I am not using Pharyngula to avoid my marriage…
I use Pharyngula to avoid my work. My marriage, I avoid by going boarding…
It’s a professional thing, see? You don’t mix business with pleasure…
… or with misery, for that matter. My point is, the principle’s the same…
Kidding. Sort of… Or, better still, think of it as sorta like an online version of a Louis C.K. ‘things that suck about my marriage’ routine…
(/And all of us let’s please not try to dwell too long on the fact that, shortly after doing that material, Louis did, in fact, get divorced.)
Walton,
Yeah, well, it wasn’t you who SIWOTId the Piltdown.
(PS Who was “bronze age man”?)
Oh for crying out loud. That should have been “choir”, not “chorus”. Can’t get my basic HTML tags right. When will I learn to just cut off and go to bed…
Miki Z | February 17, 2010 6:02 AM:
From the link:
You know … I never thought I was “well-endowed”, but if that’s “big”, mine is f’ing enormous.
Man oh man, does ScienceBlogs need to implement comment threading.
Okay, so if you wanted to read the Peptides paper for yourself but don’t have access, you might do well to click here, but you didn’t hear it from me.
#225 Bride of Shrek
Put me down Madam/Miss/Ms! I’m already spoken for. I’m a happily married man!
HELP
[Ed. I’d put Alan B down if I were you.
1) You don’t know where he’s been.
2) You’ll do your back in.
3) Have you seen Mrs Alan B? She can be red in tooth and claw when riled!!]
Thanks, Ed. I can look after myself (I think).
#213 Owlmirror
I think that probably depends where you work! I can think of one or two workplaces where you might …
Huzzah, finally got caught up with my work and could get caught up with the Thread.
Fantastic, and I have to invite Ring Tailed Lemurian to the next garter convention, and David’s brain is still pretty cool, and I’m still swooning from Antiochus’ homeschool poster takedown, and…
Oh my god. I AM easy.
Also glad for once that I was too busy to keep up with the thread – I unkilled Hyperon just to see what everyone was talking about, and oy. I’m glad I wasn’t in the middle of that.
And toilet paper goes OVER unless you are an uncouth heathen. My dream in life is to someday afford a Washlet. Now is the time I mourn, because I would link to the cutest, most bizzare website about toilets in the world, but TOTO took it down for some unfathomable reason. They used to have an entire site devoted to the washlet with the slogan “Clean is happy”, that started out with pictures of bottoms with smiley faces on them and then got weirder, to the point of having a guy wax rhapsodic about the toilet seat with more technology than your computer, but now the url just redirects to the TOTO homepage. Losers.
Just to be sure I wasn’t hallucinating, I went looking and found reference to it, also here, including a contested billboard featuring said smiley bottoms.
Carlie @ 244
As with many Japanese apartments, ours comes with washlet as standard (complete with a wall panel of controls that would not look out of place on a Star Trek set) – and they are great – although I am wary of touching too many of the controls. My Japanese is not that good and I worry one of them is for ‘Steam cleaning’ or something.
Japan has very particular ideas about western toilets (some public places and older homes have squat toilets, the sit down types are either called “western” or “handicapped”, depending on venue.)
Ours is manufactured by INAX, and includes:
bottom-wash
bidet (these two differ in their angle/origination)
heated seat
heated water for bottom-wash/bidet
automatic deodorizer
‘whirlpool’ flushing system (water shoots around the rim, not down)
Everything which can be heated has a temperature control, everything which squirts has direction control, pulse control, and motion control.
Some people get the optional feature that makes noises to camouflage peeing, but that’s just silly. Getting the blow-dry option is just showing out.
Walton @226
Please discuss how 1/ Morally acceptable equates with homophobia 2/ How the response of Hyperon relates to question one.
I have just read Greg Laden’s blog.
So which one of you was it that kneecapped him ? :)
It was me. I had my boyfriend and his cousin do it so the fucker couldn’t beat me in the Short Program.
…
the reference, for the too-young and/or not-yet-caffeinated
I believe we’ve presented several instances of sexism against women — totaling a difference of 17% in pay for equivalent jobs, and 30%+ difference in management.
“Evolutionary psychology” (which is what you retreated to) does not have the same ontological standing as psychology, or even sociology. Good show with your attempt to conflate it with regular ol’ psychology, though.
Now, given that you have even admitted that sexism has been a problem, the problem of sexism is a given. Your assertion is that sexism no longer exists, or at least is no longer statistically relevant. So, we have something with great ontological standing (sexism) against a “null hypothesis” based on evolutionary psychology (for which you still have not provided references), which has far less ontological standing.
Hm. I wonder why we don’t tend to accept your “null hypothesis?”
“Haven’t earned.” How utterly chauvinistic of you. What does it take to “earn” money? What about the fact that males tend to inherit money in greater quantity than females? That is money they didn’t earn. I had an uncle that married above his station (as they used to say). A friend of mine was engaged to the daughter of the CEO of Smirnoff. He was an auto mechanic. Neither of them earned the money she had.
I’m struggling to find the problem with women marrying men with more money, or men marrying women with more money. Should people only marry those of similar economic means?
Uhm… in general, rape is psychologically more devestating than a white male getting beat up by other white males. And considering that rape happens far more often (at least an order of magnitude more often) than the violence you mentioned — I think rape is the bigger problem.
Nice collection of anecdotes used to support your hypothesis, though. I’m sure that’ll fly in any scientific journal.
By the way, my wife was wondering: have you perhaps recently gone through a terrible break-up of some sort? A divorce in which your ex took most of your possessions? Or perhaps you were recently dumped by a significant other?
She was just wondering. The symptoms you exhibit are very much like the standard misogynistic phase many males go through after a terrible breakup.
@Carlie (#244): I have to disagree. With a Siamese cat in the house, the paper rolls UNDER, unless I want to pick up shreds of it from all over. He seems to think it’s his bound duty to put as many holes in the roll as possible (at least…when he won’t get caught doing it. He knows better than to let me see him!) With the paper going over, he seems to find it much easier to find the end and drag it all over. It’s amazing how far a roll of toilet paper will go when dragged by a cat! At least, if it rolls under, it seems to tear off before he can get into the living room.
#252 triskelethecat
In England, it is generally accepted that cute little puppies do a better job (if you’ll pardon the expression).
triskelethecat,
Our WC is very small, so after our last renovation, The Lovely Wife & I hung the bog roll vertically, to save knee-room around the commode. It had the added benefit of deterring the cats from doing exactly as you mentioned. We had the added joy of the dogs, who would play with the tissue scraps and dragged them sogged-up all around the house.
BTW: your nick wouldn’t be a play on Triskele the dog from Shadow of the Torturer, would it?
@NigeltheBold: yes, you are correct. My husband, who has a warped sense of humor, named our first Siamese cat from the book. It’s hard to explain that your cat is named for a 3-legged, 1-eyed dog….
But, when we had to put him to sleep, I took his name for some of the internet sites I frequent.
Never thought of the cat problem – our cat was never interested in unrolling the toilet paper. Toddlers, on the other hand…
Sven – did you see in the news that Nancy’s brother killed her dad a couple of weeks ago? This has been a really bizarre month in crimes.
Matt Penfold:
Far be it from me to say such a thing, and I don’t think it’s true, but SC has given objective people cause to wonder about her serious Greg issues, such that casual readers of the trainwreck thread might reasonably and objectively conclude that it was her.
I don’t think she’d do such a thing, but some objective people have pointed out that she’s the biggest bitch on the Internets, and really do have to wonder. Just sayin’.
https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnhDwuNUQSyq2gYDMnhTU69GIrU70lZE1M says:
I know your handle is direct evidence of the evilness of the SB gods, but I refuse to believe that they could be that evil. ;)
Seriously, threaded comment systems suck. For one thing, it’s harder to catch up with a thread because you can’t simply go to the number of the last comment you remember reading and read from there to the bottom, you have to look for new comments all over the whole damn page. Just imagine if The Thread was like that… *shudder*
Thanks! I don’t have time now, but I’ll probably read it later today. :)
Ahem. Greatest Bitch in the Internet. Greatest. I’m the Muhammad Ali of internet bitchitude.
float like a buttahfly
sting like a bee
bitch like a…
bitch, I guess
SC, I stand corrected. You’re the Greatest.
And SHIT BITCH, YOU IS FINE.
http://www.loveislame.com/products/4
awww
Paul, that’s so sweet!
if only I was OG enuff to give one to a certain ‘thug’ I know
I have a lot of catching up to do on the endless thread! My fellow Pharyguloids have been busy.
Yesterday I had the Carotid Duplex test which was ordered by my doctor after I experienced a brain-offline event on January 15th. My fellow Pharynguloids, thank you for the funds for this test, an unexpectedly sensual experience.
The test, which is an ultrasound examination of blood flow to the brain, took a lot longer than I expected. For about fifteen minutes per side, the technician ran the ultrasound over my neck, up to the jawline, and up to my ear, pausing at one point to tap lightly near the base of my ear with the wand recording the taps.
Pharyngulettes and gay gentlemen of Pharyngula, your empathetic attention please: Blake (yep, that’s his name) was, I swear to the FSM, tall, dark and handsome. And did I say well-muscled? So this Registered Cardio Sonographer lay his fine forearm between my breasts (to steady his hand) while he probed my lubricated neck with a round-tipped wand about the size of (insert Josh, Official SpokesGay’s imaginative description here).
Occasionally, Blake would turn on the sound and I would think of ‘Tis Himself. (No, not in that way!) The sound reminded me of an old movie soundtrack from scenes shot in the engine room of a ship. When the exam was over, I saw a bit of the wave form that was the visual recording of the sound. Looked like a lot of regular, pulsating blood flow to me, but what do I know?
I asked if I could have a digital copy of the test. Blake was surprised by the request, but said he would send me a CD. If any of the images can be formatted for presentation on the web, I’ll put them up on my blog. My carotid arteries will be revealed in all their glory.
It’ll be a couple of days before I have results. First, a cardio specialist trained to read the ultrasound(s) will write a summary for my doctor, then my doctor will presumably call me in to hear the news.
It’ll also be a couple of days before I get a CD from Blake. In the meantime, I’m not dead yet.
That would be cool!
I have my daughter’s karyotype someplace and you’ve inspired me to find & post that.
Good news to start the day with. I’ve seen that test done on House. Interesting.
Is the mormon church laundering money again?
As ex-mormon, Jesus Smith, puts it:
The debt/area ratios are:
Shanghai – 5305
Dubai – 11,976
Time W. – 3846
Morg-CCM -24,691
Sven,
Yeah, I gave my wife one of those. She finds it very romantic when I’m linguistic in her vernacular.
Which reminds me, we still do not have access to scans of David M.’s brain.
*cough*
My wife’s appreciation of tall, dark, and handsome men is second only to her appreciation of short, pasty, and homely ones. She reminds me of this every time that we watch Blair Underwood and assures me that White Chocolate is tasty too.
badgersdaughter:
Coughing rather spoils the mood, in my experience.
Lynna, glad to hear that your Carotid Duplex test was, after all, sort of a… pleasant experience. ;)
And thanks for keeping us posted.
Miki Z @270, I have to admit that my tastes in men are, shall we say, broad. I agree with your wife that short, pasty and homely can be charming.
For a relationship lasting beyond the half an hour it takes to examine my carotid arteries, I put brains and the wit to use them above tall, dark, and handsome any day. But … no harm in enjoying tall, dark, and handsome when it presses against you.
Why do you think I gave up my title of Vile Bitch? I just cannot compete with you!
I am not sure if I should be excited by seeing Lynna’s carotid arteries. I have not run across that kink before. Here ts to hoping it is treatable.
@Lynna,
Your description had me kinda titillated, and I’m not gay.
Of course, my boyfriend is.
I really don’t have much in the way of toilet paper stories to add to the earlier portion of this thread. My most memorable toilet paper experience relates to running out of the stuff while backpacking with my brothers in the Wildhorse Lake area of the Pioneer Mountains. My brother, Steve, kindly offered to sell me toilet paper at the bargain cost of $5 per square.
You know, after seeing that picture of him over at Tet Zoo I think I’d be much more interested in an eye close-up. Though I’m afraid it may not be safe to look so closely…
Hyperoff @41
Well, I see Hyper off-base has been well and truly denounced and trounced for that bit of idiocy, but I cannot help but add: What the freaking fuck!?
I remember my child-rearing days. And I remember being so freaking tired that I forgot where I’d last put the baby. I still have nightmares about misplacing the baby. Luckily, babies do not sleep all the time, so they’re likely to let you noisily know where you last left them.
Dania, it’s me, https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnhDwuNUQSyq2gYDMnhTU69GIrU70lZE1M, but now I’ve switched to a movable type account. WTF w/ the Google login? Anyways, what about a hybrid comment system where you can switch between threaded and chronological views? It was a real pain scanning through so many comments just trying to find the ones that related to the Peptides paper. It would have been nice if they had been clumpable by topic.
But is he rugged and nerdy?
We briefly interrupt for our irregularly scheduled Toothy Goodness for Jadehawk series. Do read all the way to the end of the article.
And while I’m at promoting Tet Zoo, here‘s a delightfully nerdy quote by Darren Naish.
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
There is no such thing that “is, for me, the null hypothesis“. “Null hypothesis” is a technical term. Roughly, it means “there’s no correlation, no causation, nothing, the data are purely random, nothing happened, nothing to see here, go along”. (What it means precisely differs between statistical tests, but it’s always a version of the above.) The purpose of a statistical test try is to reject the null hypothesis if it’s wrong.
There is no such thing as an abusive husband. There is no such thing as an abusive husband. There is no such thing as an abusive husband. There is no such thing as an abusive husband. There is no such thing as an abusive husband.
If you say it often enough, it becomes true, no doubt…
Ignorance and naïve blindness always lead to this kind of conclusion.
Unfortunately the link doesn’t work.
Hooooraaaay.
Just wash your hands. :^)
It’s complicated, and I still haven’t quite understood how it works, or if there’s even a single set of rules. There’s the Bulletin du Muséum national d’Histoire naturelle, where only the nouns get capital letters; and then there’s the Catholic newspaper la Croix with lower-case la. Articles in place names also retain lower case, often even on maps, giving you the city of le Havre (which fuses with prepositions to au Havre and du Havre) and the river la Seine.
But in any case it can’t be “Review”. Do you use an overactive spellchecker? :-)
Seriously, you’re too young to worry yet.
(a) applies. (c) doesn’t really, and (b) applies little to Hyperon and, well, not at all to Piltdown Man.
It goes without saying that being wrong is not a bannable offense. I find the list pretty fine.
So I get 1337 geek cred for having been
doingwaiting for this to happen since before it was cool!?!Something is fishy here… crap, I didn’t intend that pun.
So that we need to read the entire subthread five times over? No, thanks.
And once again my ability to laugh silently comes in handy. Mad, open grinning, diaphragm cramps, occasional fluttering of the lower jaw…
X-D
I can hardly stop!
It goes without saying that I still don’t get it…
…but I’m still laughing at the steam cleaning anyway!
But is he rugged and nerdy?
I guess everyone needs their impossible objects of desire.
Lynna, that is the most awesome story of a medical test I have ever read.
Oh hey, the Shit Bitch Bear reminds me of something I left hanging a couple of weeks ago, when the Laden thing blew up.
Several people rightly pointed out that something I’d said about the use of “be” in Black English was wrong. (Sven? John Morales? Jadehawk? This was back when David M and I were arguing with SEF about prescriptive linguistics.)
I meant to post this link to Wikipedia, but I don’t think I ever did:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English
The section on Grammatical Aspect Marking is what I was talking about, but not getting right.
It’s pretty cool, with 9 different forms of “be” (or similar words) fairly standardly used to modify all kinds of verbs.
(Sadly, my wife can’t actually speak that vernacular, or it teach it to me.)
Just received a CD of my lower abdomen / pelvis CT scan. Maybe we could start an image bank of the inner parts of Pharyngulites ?
The CT scan revealed three kidney stones of 7, 4, and 2 mm diameter : these little fuckers have been responsible for quite some excrutiating pain over the last week. I will now have to undergo lithotripsy in order to shatter the larger ones into smaller fragments.
Prayer and HomeopathyMedical progress and technology will bring an end to my suffering.And anybody who thinks Kidney Stones are the result of some sort of “Intelligent Design” should try them.
Negentropyeater, great to hear they found the problem. Those little bastards are no joke to deal with. The lithotripsy is no sweat, literally all you must do is lay back and relax. Thinking of you.
Karen James:
Good question…
As long as which comments are in response to which comments is shown clearly in both views, a hybrid system would be fine by me.
And Opera just crashed the 5th time while trying to open this. As usual, I chose “continue where I was last time” when I restarted the program, and as usual it worked this time.
~:-|
Safari crashes were at least repeatable…
ROTFL!
The excuses are getting better and better, aren’t they :-)
Neither do I, in case that makes anyone feel better. None has ever been made.
And while X-rays of my dentition have been made (envy alert: all four wisdom teeth are coming out vertically, and there’s just space for them!), they’re probably archived somewhere in the dentist’s office, or have maybe been thrown away long ago…
Ctrl+F (or +F) is your friend…
Yep. I’m sure that’s why she put them there.
Erm, the 5th time in total since I installed it.
Walton @166: great link, great exposé of our CEO. All that cephalopod porn will out. LOL
Man, I so can’t relate…
I mean, I’m really pleased that Lynna’s all okay. But my last diagnostic type thing was this nerve conductance test done on my legs. Horrible. They send these shocks through your nerves, measure how far they go…
Apologizing in advance for the dreadful Hollywood cliche, but I think the only thing that got me through it was the fact that the (actually, I guess, kinda attractive) tech who did the deed had this perfect East German torture chamber specialist-type accent. And in between the seriously fucking painful parts where she was actually blasting stuff through my nerves, I found it strangely, appropriately hilarious…
(/Kept waiting for her to say ‘No, Mr. Milne, we do not expect you to talk. We expect you to die.’ That just woulda made the whole thing perfect.)
@280
Oh, yes. And, oh, yes. He was very nerdy, and practically symbiotic in relation to the ultrasound apparatus. He was a bit rugged when it came to removal of the lubricating gel from my neck. He left red abrasions. Does that count?
@285
Good plan! And I’m sorry to hear about the size and number of your kidney stones. Blast ’em!
@negentropyeater: YOW!! Those are some BIG stones. No wonder you have had pain. I have had friends who underwent lithotripsy; I understand that it is a very weird sensation but generally works well. Good luck getting over them!
Tusks that grow fatally into the face?! And the creature gets to feel every millimeter of growth. Nice one, god.
I can introduce you to Blake, if you like.
I hate you. ;)
My upper teeth are coming out vertically but there’s no space for the lower teeth. I had the lower right one extracted last month and I still can’t chew properly with the right side of my mouth!
*sigh*
One down, one to go.
AJ Milne, you are jealous of the medical-testing sensuousity you were so unfairly denied! That’s adorable.
Seriously, I am sorry that you were tortured.
I’m 52, and my dentist has finally decided that this one annoying wisdom tooth that is all mashed up in the upper right corner of my jaw must go. Gettin’ yanked either next week or the week after.
Speaking of petaflops … (weren’t we speaking of petaflops?):
It pays to be humble.
Speaking of Fractals, then:
NO
does it even make sense to ask why…?
relevant and cute
:-D
too bad that’s too long for a handle title…
RAWR…. err… I mean, what where the results?
yay2 :-)
first reaction: “how…absurd”; second reaction later, when I’m sufficiently awake for substantive reading.
pfft, I have been doing it since before it was cool. ahh, the gloriously weird looks I got way back in the dark ages of 2002 when explaining how I met my then-husband. On the flip side, a good number of his acquaintances thought I was a Russian mail-order bride… :-/
excellent. I think I have an X-ray of my head floating around somewhere…
and let’s not forget: Evil Socialized Medicine!
lucky bastard. when mine started coming in they took out two and were gonna take out the other two a couple weeks later, except in the meantime my jaw locked in the closed position. Not cool. So they did an emergency removal of the remaining two teeth.
And I’m not even going to talk about the boyfriend’s dentition. he’s a walking argument for free dental care (no canines, for starters)
triskelethecat,
this is my third kidney stones attack in 15 years. Previous two didn’t require lithotripsy. But all I can say is that the pain is not necessarily proportional to the size of the little fuckers. I heard it’s the same as with babies. Though as a male, I’ll never get to compare.
Thanks to all for the kind words.
This event will distract you from the pain in your back.
I’m very lucky, as my teeth are more-or-less perfect. My dentist appointments tend to take about five minutes, and I never had to have braces or dental surgery or anything.
On another note: is it just me who actually likes the clean hygienic antiseptic smell in dentists’ offices? Everyone to whom I’ve ever mentioned this seems to think it’s very weird. :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Bachman
On another note: is it just me who actually likes the clean hygienic antiseptic smell in dentists’ offices? Everyone to whom I’ve ever mentioned this seems to think it’s very weird. :-)
Walton, you do realize that you make this just too easy.
I kid because all of this talk of pain is bringing back to my ailments, those that I am trying to ignore.
/bacon interlude
ThinkGeek Bacon
/end bacon interlude
I’ve been away for a bit, but I’m glad to hear you’re getting somewhere with this health issue, Lynna.
Ahem, if I may, I’d like to share a medical test story that might resonate with the fellas here. Now, I kinda love hospitals. I like being poked and prodded, and I don’t even mind those stupid paper gowns you get (I’m kind of an exhibitionist). I’m also a consummate smartass; once, just before surgery to excise a small wound on my arm that had become infected, I actually asked the poor resident with the scalpel if I’d be able to play the piano after the surgery. The look on her face when I gave the punchline was so worth it I briefly considered innoculating a cut on my other arm with staph just to see if there was someone else on call I could sucker. Apparently, medical school doesn’t at all prepare you for 12-year-old patients pulling Henny Youngman-esque routines (though the joke is even in the literature).
Anyway, my family doctor used to work out of a hospital and so always had residents to perform some of the more routine tests during physicals. On one such occasion I was being examined by one of the most beautiful girls I had ever seen–we even shared a birthday, indicating some sort of kismet*–when she announced she needed to check my testicles for signs of cancer. Having been through such exams many times, I immediately hopped onto the examining table, lied back, looked at the wall, and thought about baseball.
Apparently unfamiliar with how this test is performed, she directed me instead to stand up. Dutifully I did so, and she knelt down in front of me, yanked my ginch down like she was about to mail a letter, and proceeded to massage my scrotum with her face an inch away from my junk. Now, I have no doubt that there wasn’t the slightest hint of anything sexual going on in her mind, but as for me I distinctly remember having two successive thoughts: the first was that there was some sort of punchline about normally having to to pay $50 for this kind of attention in a dingy alley in this somewhere, and the second was that no jury of my peers would fault me if I got an erection.
So I did.
I swear, there was nothing I could do.
Anyway, I nearly poked her eye out (I’m not that big; she was that close) and the test was very immediately concluded. And I’d be willing to bet good money that in every subsequent testicular cancer test she’s performed, when the patient lies back and looks at the wall she let him.
*Yeah, I know. What can I say? Even rationalist Geminis look for their lost twins.
BTW, I forgot to mention that the dentist who removed my wisdom tooth* had very pretty eyes (not only the eyes, either), which made the whole thing much less boring than usual. :P
*Not my dentist. The dentist I go to regularly is a private dentist, but for economic reasons the extraction was made at one of those evil socialist institutions some people call “public hospital”.
Ah, so I’m not the only one! :)
LDS authors examine 7 miracles in history of the U.S.
I’m not much for the antiseptic smell, but I really get into that scent of bone/tooth dust in the air when the drill gets going. Reminds me of good times.
Wow. I can only imagine how much the LDS church must absolutely revere 50 Cent.
In case that wasn’t clear, I meant that I’m not the only one liking the smell in dentists’ offices. (And not that I’m not the only one finding your liking of it very weird.)
Look for LDS “historians” to collaborate with the Texas State School Board in revising history textbooks. Look for both parties to ignore original sources as they proclaim the religious tolerance of Puritans:
I’m not much for the antiseptic smell, but I really get into that scent of bone/tooth dust in the air when the drill gets going. Reminds me of good times.
I am not sure if I find this to be more deeply weird or deeply creepy.
Lynna,
Glad to hear you got the first test, had some delicious eye candy too! We’re hoping the results are, at the least, informative.
Negentropyeater,
Oooh, that sucks! I’ve heard that passing kidney stones is more painful than childbirth. I hope they’re giving you some decent painkillers. It’s good to know you’re going to be okay, though.
David M,
You can always whisper sweet nothings about fossils in my ear ;)
Yes, but is there room for you to floss and brush behind them? If not, you might end up losing them to cavities. This happened to me.
Walton,
Well, you are weird, but so are we all. I have a friend who loves the smell of bathroom cleaner. She’s very strange.
No documented case, only anecdotes.
:-D
:-)
Disproved by Pope Bologna XIII – The Glorious High Sauceror of Pastafarianism and Grand Poobah of His Holy Meatball.
Exactly. Reality is always stranger than fiction.
WANT!
:-S
<shock>
Heartfelt condolences. It’s not often, but sometimes canines do come in very handy for things like biting hard bread.
I do like the smell of iodoform
in the morning.The natives “discovered” the New World first. The Vikings were second. And so what if the Chinese discovered it next? Are they afraid that they might put their culture there instead? Colombus’ appearence wasn’t a good thing for the natives; it wiped out 90% of the population, with the Europeans killing much of the rest. I smell imperialistic sentiments from the LSD.
So God has favorites. Which means God is vile, because he’s willing to kill other people in the favor of one group.
Great LSD post from Lynna again. :)
For instance, in the UK men are twice as likely as women to be the victim of a violent crime. This covers domestic abuse, and holds despite the intuitively inevitable fact that men are less likely to report violent crimes.
In any case, domestic abuse has nothing to do with sexism. It emerges from the basic fact about our biology that men tend to be physically stronger than women. However, the conception that it is not “macho” to hit women is a good example of a way in which one sex is privileged above another in our society. Not that I have a problem with it: it presumably reduces overall suffering, which is all that it is relevant. But what it does mean is that thuggish types (if they don’t feel like going as far as rape, and they usually don’t) will tend to victimize males, not females. Nobody seems to care, which is why I saw fit to bring this up.
BEGIN
GOTO Pharyngula
DEMAND money // Don’t say you weren’t warned.
INPUT
“One of fellow SciBling Grrrlscientist’s chosen projects for the Donors’ Choose charity challenge haven’t received anything yet, and the request runs out in a week. So here I go plugging it. Hopefully some of the resident mathematicians still have a wee bit of spare cash lying around.
Magnificent Math
“, N
DEPOSIT N, “Donors’ Choose”
PRINT “Thank you for giving to DC USD”; N
END DEMAND
END
Ah, so I’m not the only one.
(/Mandatory.)
Ooh, just read about the stones, Negentropyeater. All, uh, the best. Ouch!
I once had a brief job as a subject for a master’s thesis in which I administered spirometric tests to the public at a booth in a mall as a control alongside a real respiratory technician. I don’t recall the type of antiseptic we used but the smell reminded me of melons, though I’m sure its pink colour contributed more than a little to that impression. At the end of the night, when the mall closed, we’d dismantle all of the equipment and immerse it in the liquid. I miss that smell.
Ah, so that’s what you did to the bones and teeth of the 9,000 Catholic babies that, according to some sources, you devoured after the Crackergate?
Walton,
Really? Honestly, you seem like a fairly nice guy. Since you’ve been hanging out here I’ve noticed that your social skills have improved dramatically. I really can’t imagine that you’re so odious in person that you couldn’t have a relationship. Give yourself some time.
X-D
Ouch. It went that fast? And she was so focused she (literally) didn’t see it coming?
(Erm. Don’t feel obliged to answer.)
Yet another Mad Woman of Pharyngula who is 1) on average 13,000 km away and 2) not single. I smell a pattern. It is to despair.
Behind? What behind? I said there’s just space, in this case between the 2nd molar and, in the lower jaw, the solid jawbone. :-) Already it’s very difficult to get floss between the 1st and 2nd molars, but nothing else ever gets in there either, so there’s not much to bother, is there…
No, not babies. I used to do skull surgeries. On kittens.
Then you may get lucky. There was just enough space between my M3s and the ramus for tiny particles of food to get stuck, but not enough space for me to get a toothbrush or floss back there. After a couple of years, I had one heckuva cavity. Since I was about to time out on my parents’ dental insurance they went ahead and pulled all four so that this didn’t happen on the other side.
PZ, I remember Snowball. :)
Holy cow! Men in the UK really are twice as likely to report violent crime as women! That’s amazing.
There’s some serious sexism against 16- to 24-year-old males in the UK. I wonder why that is?
…?
Seriously? That you call “intuitively inevitable”? Isn’t it rather “intuitively inevitable” that domestic violence would be heavily underreported?
Hyperon, do you belong to any “father’s rights” groups?
There is a good reason why young men report such high levels of violence. That reason is a combination of testosterone and alcohol. The overwhelming number of assaults on young males are committed by other young males, at pub and club closing time. It is seldom the case that such assaults are entirely unprovoked.
OH HYPERON NO!
This study has a small sample size but it is about how children think that violence against women can be justified.
Poor Hyperon. One might think he isn’t a man, but rather a boy cowering in his parent’s basement, afraid to face the world, where people not of his religion or with diffent body parts do actual work. Call a Waahhhmbulance.
NO.
If you were trying to pass a walnut through your urethra, maybe it would be as painful as childbirth.
Glad to hear updates on Lynna and negentropyeater, with wishes for continued recovery/improvement/good health.
Still learning,
Robert
I’m oddly enjoying the novel feeling that comes from randomly making stuff up, posting it on the internet, and then finding people quoting it as a “source”. This must be how journalists feel all the time. :-)
I understand that rape is a subject which is shrouded in taboo, and I understand that most human beings are too intellectually and emotionally limited to question most taboos. I also understand that my crime on this blog is heresy. The truth still holds that there is no logic reason why I can’t compare rape and physical assault in terms of the suffering caused.
I know there’s a lot of talk about the “trauma” of rape, but why, fundamentally, in a typical case, would rape be more traumatic than a more physically painful and prolonged instance of physical assault? (This is a real question, not a rhetorical question.) Perhaps we are actually increasing the pain of rape by telling people that they’re supposed to undergo immense, unavoidable, and somehow sacrosanct trauma.
…yanked my ginch down like she was about to mail a letter…
My face hurts from laughing.
***
neg, sorry to hear that. Get well soon. Lynna, I’m so happy you’re getting the tests (and finding them so pleasurable).
***
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-february-3-2010/male-inequality
(not endorsing it in its entirety)
***
I have no idea what “OG” means.
For a long time, I thought that Walton lacked a sense of humor. Now I am finding him to be compellingly perverse. As a group, are we really that bad of an influence on young people?
‘Terrified about the implications.’
how about you listen to the people who have experienced both and have been telling you that being beaten to pulp is less bad than being raped
oh, but they were women, so their experiences don’t count for shit, huh?
Hyperon, think about some big guy doing rape onto you. Maybe you will begin to feel even a tiny bit of compassion for the women who suffured such violence, and live with the trauma and PTDS.
Is it really “intuitively inevitable?” Seriously?
That doesn’t quite fit with the fact that half of the reported violent acts did not result in injury. At all. Many of those “reports” were for things like shoving, or even just death threats (such as, “I’m gonna fuckin’ kill you, you stupid git!”)
Couple that with the statistics for lifestyle (in which you are far more likely to suffer violence if you attend nightclubs on a regular basis) and the afore-mentioned youthfulness of most of the victims, and I think you have quite a bit of evidence that your “intuitive inevitability” is neither intuitive, nor inevitable.
Perhaps we are actually increasing the pain of rape by telling people that they’re supposed to undergo immense, unavoidable, and somehow sacrosanct trauma.
Which is why so many women never tell others about their so called “trauma”.
Hyperon, it is tiring that you try to disguise your dogma as though you are truly free of dogma. Yes, I think you are a sick fuck who refuses to understand the suffering of others.
No, I’m just someone who’s asking why rape is necessarily worse than physical assault. I’m not receiving any good answers.
Pygmy Loris,
The tablets do the job (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory + morphine derivative).
At least, I sleep well with them, I don’t get woken up by the pain every 3 hours like before. My cognitive abilities might have been slightly impaired, a bit euphoric, but it’s temporary.
Had to lay off alcohol for a while, which is a bit tough, as reading Pharyngula and a few other blogs whilst drinking is one of my favourite past time…
Hyperon said he would go away according to my feelings, but then he came back without agreeing to my terms:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/11/the_problem_of_the_oblivious_w.php#comment-2090817
SC,
30 seconds to look it up on Urban Dictionary.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=OG
:-P
“I understand that rape is a subject which is shrouded in taboo, and I understand that most human beings are too intellectually and emotionally limited to question most taboos.”
Translation: bitchez are too emotional about being raped, and Hyperon doesn’t understand why, since he’s never had to live with it or the feat of it, so clearly he’s superior.
“The truth still holds that there is no logic reason why I can’t compare rape and physical assault in terms of the suffering caused.”
There is no truth in this whatsoever. There’s your bigotry, your refusal to consider the statements of people who actually know what they’re talking about and your pathetic attempts at painting yourself as a victim. But no truth.
“Perhaps we are actually increasing the pain of rape by telling people that they’re supposed to undergo immense, unavoidable, and somehow sacrosanct trauma.”
The next time you bend over, someone’s going to ram something up your ass repeatedly for as long as they want to do so. Nothing you say or do will stop it. No amount of begging, pleading, crying, screaming or fighting will stop it. And when it’s over and you try to report it, they’re going to ask what you did to bring it on, the person who committed the crime will go free and you will get to live with that.
i second the request for this sick fuck’s removal, PZ. This level of psychotic, callous misogyny should not be allowed to stand. Unless driving away more female posters is the goal.
Children also tend to be homophobic. I think there might be a biological tendency toward misogyny and homophobia, which is why it is pronounced in children. I suppose you could argue that “compensating” for our biology might justify some measure of affirmative action.
I am envious of those who have either space for their wisdom teeth or easy removals. All four of mine had to be chiseled out while I was under general anesthetic.
Hyperon, Pygmy Loris gave you a damned good responce the first fucking time you called rape a temporary incompetence. It is your problem that you cannot comprehend it, not ours.
Hyperon: “No, I’m just someone who’s asking why rape is necessarily worse than physical assault. I’m not receiving any good answers.”
I would guess you’ve neither been raped or assaulted which is why no answers satisfy you. Or you’re just an overly dim pinhead.
“I think there might be a biological tendency toward misogyny and homophobia, which is why it is pronounced in children.”
LOL. Yeah, because there certainly aren’t people teaching them that and no societal messages that teach any of that. Nah, it’s NATURAL.
And what you think is obviously true, since you’re a sociopath who has no ability to feel compassion. Which makes you so superior to anyone else.
You might get a clue if you think about why sexual abuse of young children is considered even worse than beating them. Young children have not had the time or the cognitive functioning necessary to be so indoctrinated. But children suffer heavy psychological damage from molestation even when they are apparently willing and even enthusiastic participants.
You may find the example of Ricky Rodriguez in the Church of God illustrative: http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Ricky_Rodriguez
you’re a simpleminded troll. I bet after watching the Doll Tests, you’d conclude that blacks naturally feel inferior to whites, too.
What a fucking moron.
Ah. Thanks. My search was too broad.
How did I not know that? *shakes head*
I think there might be a biological tendency toward misogyny and homophobia, which is why it is pronounced in children.
Because it would be fucking unthinkable to suggest that these are learned from the adults around them.
Weren’t you the one saying that psychology is a solid science? Why not go read up on the psychology of rape? It is extremely well-documented.
See, there you go ruining a fairly legitimate question with chauvinistic condescension. The “somehow sacrosanct” just shows that you have no real interest in the answer.
Botany Wednesday? Today is Wednesday, right?
The post that is “Now on ScienceBlogs” could deal with a bit more attention. It’s interesting indeed.
Man, is this scary.
That may well be, but I bet it pales (outside of theocratic countries at least) in comparison to the trauma that betrayal of trust causes, to name just one.
Really, you should read that thread again where you made the “temporary inconvenience” remark. In detail. Yes, it’s going to take an afternoon or two – we can wait…
Incidentally, if I were ever raped, the thing I would be most worried about is painful and long-term physical injuries. Yes, it would be highly uncomfortable, but it would only last for a short period of time. Carrying around broken body parts for months would be in my opinion worse than “trauma”, which I could probably blank out soon enough.
I am so old school that OG is Magilla Gorilla’s little friend.
HyperIdjit just can’t grasp that we don’t give a shit about his inane, insane, sexist, and bigoted opinions. And we certainly would shit on them, but they are so shitty to begin with, it accomplishes nothing, and may even make it smell better.
Well, OK, but why can’t we just study the adults directly? Are you suggesting that the adults would be more deceptive than the children? (A good point if so — I’m just curious as to what your argument is.)
awww. here, have a flower
*runs*
The author of the Peptides paper is responding to people on the other thread.
Internet Tough Guy mansplains how rape ain’t shit.
Just like how suffering serious injuries in battle is exactly the same as being tortured.
“Hyperon, do you belong to any “father’s rights” groups? ”
Since he’s puking out virtually every derranged misogynistic lie that they do, it’s “intuitively inevitable” that he’s a bitter, twisted MRA.
Even in considering being raped, he is utterly incapable of thinking past his preconceived notions. He is incapable of considering psychological ramifications, or societal reaction. This is either a frightening sociopath, or a resoundingly stupid MRA ideologue.
Hyper-wrong verbally oozed:
Yikes…
This is exactly why I don’t even bother engaging this sociopathic shitstain here anymore. He’s too fucked in the head to even realize what a complete piece of shit he is.
*shakes head*
Hyperon, I really think you should retract these comments and apologise.
You’re opining about something – the suffering and trauma associated with being a victim of rape – which, by your own admission, you have never experienced. You don’t have any evidential basis at all for your remarks about rape, and you seem to be ignoring the testimonies of actual rape victims. And your assertions are not only unsubstantiated, they have also deeply offended many people. Yet you keep making them.
I’ve stood up for you from time to time in the past, but on this particular issue I think you’re entirely wrong.
Funny, the scientist reads the article I linked to and finds the content to be worrisome. The bigot looks at it and goes ‘meh’, it is biologically justified.
SC, you don’t need ‘nother OM. Now you’re just showing off.
FTW.
“mansplains”
This douche is a world class mansplainer. Every single thing actual rape victims have said do not make a dent in his absolute certainty. He needs a padded room and medication, not internet access.
I think you’re wrong to downplay the importance of mental and emotional health here. In some ways, mental trauma can be more harmful to an individual’s wellbeing than physical injury. Many rape victims end up suffering from depression, low self-esteem, chronic nightmares and fears, and other serious mental health problems through their entire lives. It’s easy to assert that you would be able to “blank out” a traumatic event, but until you’ve experienced it, you have no basis for making an assertion like that. Mental health is just as real as physical health, and just as important to people’s lives.
Hypersexist still can’t prove himself right, and his smelly opinions aren’t worth even the communist toilet paper needed to wipe them up. Nothing cogent, since he isn’t cogent.
I’m just glad my killfile is working properly. I’ve got hyperon blocked, and he’s still making me feel ill just from what people are quoting to refute.
Until you’ve been raped, your opinion about the resulting “trauma” — nice use of scare quotes, jackass — are worthless.
Comment by Hyperon blocked. [unkill] [show comment]
“Many rape victims end up suffering from depression, low self-esteem, chronic nightmares and fears, and other serious mental health problems through their entire lives.”
PTSD, agoraphobia, eating disorders, alcohol/substance abuse, reckless tendencies (i.e. dangerous promiscuity, gambling, etc.), isolation from family/friends, self-harm behaviors (i.e. cutting, etc.)
The list eventually feels endless.
This is not at all to suggest that victims can’t move on from the crime, or can’t live normal lives again. Some actually do just shove it away and never deal with it. Others go to long-term counseling.
Funny how the poor widdle white dudes who get beat up once don’t have these problems, huh.
Thanks Lynna, but my husband might not like it if I ran off with a hunky medical practitioner.
Eek, why did I unkill Hyperon? My guess is that he’s never had sex, period. That’s the only explanation I can think of why he can’t comprehend how rape IS assault.
In more fun news, I took a classful of students on a brewery tour today, and didn’t realize until we were leaving that it’s also Ash Wednesday. Is it bad to expose a group of (mostly) minors to beer on a religious holiday?
From there…
LOL!
What?
When I was told (by a fellow second-or-something-grader) what the terms “gay” and “lesbian” mean – “men who fall in love with men”, “women who fall in love with women” –, all I thought was “ah, so that exists, too”. It didn’t trigger any emotions.
That was an anecdote. Now bring me data, or retract your claim.
It would also be very surprising if violent misogyny were innate rather than learned, while I am at it…
:-S
What if you were raped by your partner of several years?
Why don’t you ever think for longer than 3 seconds in a row?
Read that thread already. A link has been provided.
Via Shakesville, the BBC is doing a several part series on rape and women in the US military, so there’s a place for Hyperon to go read how women who one would stereotypically consider to be the toughest women around are still traumatized and injured by rape, not to mention how unreported it is. Funny how it’s the BBC, not an American news outlet, isn’t it? It’s almost like we want to pretend it doesn’t exist or something.
Hyperon, I think you should stop posting on this thread. Just stop for a minute, reread your posts, and think about whether you really want to carry on with this ridiculous line of argument.
This is an empirical question. I don’t understand why it should possibly be considered “offensive”. Are you saying that we should confer on rape some special kind of epistemic status, or take it as an axiomatic truth that rape is categorically different from any other crime?
Do you have any data? Because my impression is that generally people excel at avoiding unpleasant truths. Unless of course they’re being told by the popular culture that instead they should try to dwell as best they can upon their traumatic experiences.
“My guess is that he’s never had sex, period. That’s the only explanation I can think of why he can’t comprehend how rape IS assault. ”
That plus a hearty stash of rape porn = Hyperon.
Also, as for this bullshit about my line of argument being sexist: various studies indicate that most rapes are in fact carried out on males in prisons, and go unreported. (See the Wiki entry for the links.)
Hyperon,
Read the story which Carlie linked only minutes ago, already.
Or are you too scared?
Hypershit is still evidenceless, and his opinions smell worse than shit, are are worse than shit. They are worthless for anything other than the sewer, which rejects them. For that to change, he needs stop posting. PZ, maybe you would help him with that decision.
Ooh. I must read that when I get home.
We have a winner.
We have another winner.
To put it another way, the brain is an organ, too…
Awesome, Lynna. Well worth the money!
I used to have some dental X-rays from my stay in Bath, but I think I handed them over to my Danish dentist.
Would anyone like me to photograph the wart in my palm?
“as for this bullshit about my line of argument being sexist: various studies indicate that most rapes are in fact carried out on males in prisons, and go unreported.”
nah, it’s totally not sexist to totally ignore every single link provided to you and carry on with your total load of bullshit – SANS ANY EVIDENCE.
Prison rape happens on a staggering scale and is underreported – that is not under dispute. Most rapes, however, are not prison rapes. That’s just a flat out fucking lie from a sociopathic misogynist who has NOT PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE of anything aside from his sociopathic misogyny.
He doesn’t need experience, nor does he need to read other people’s experiences, but that’s only because he’s not intellectually limited like all those idiots who rely on evidence. Like scientists.
I’d long ago stopped being particularly upset by Hyperon, when I realised that all of his comments add up to him being an incredibly cowardly and terrified little boy who makes up for his very real physical fear by thinking of himself as an intellectual tough guy. (You can’t swing a dead cat in a second-year poli sci or econ class without hitting a few of these, but not to worry; they’re way too scared shitless to hit you back with one. The tendency of women to be smaller and less physically intimidating is on of the reasons these guys love to make women their targets.) There’s no need to argue with them, since you can predict what they’re going to say with absolute accuracy: every opinion they have is informed by nothing but a desire to be ‘politically incorrect’ and cloak themselves as mental freedom fighters.
If you think assault of any form is traumatising; imagine what Hyperon will have to go through: an entire life with undescended testicles and a saliva-soaked thumb. Don’t loathe the, um, for lack of a better word, man; pity him.
oh, ech
That’s the same smell you get when drilling a hole in a turtle’s plastron. I hated doing that.
Hyperon, every post you make only serves as additional evidence to everyone that you’re not just an idiot, you’re not just uninformed, but that you are deliberately ignorant. Almost aggressively so; you actively push away and twist any piece of data that could indicate that you are wrong.
Speaking entirely honestly, I hope that you are not involved in a romantic relationship with a woman now, and I hope that any you encounter stay far, far away from you, because you are a threat. Someone who is that clueless as to why rape is bad could easily push too far on a romantic partner and then just claim later that “she just wasn’t really into it at first”. Someone who is that clueless about what mental distress is like is likely to be emotionally abusive and not care. At the very least, someone like you is likely to spout off shit about how rape isn’t that bad to someone who has gone through it, and generally be a real pain in the ass about it. In fact, just by posting here you have already done that, because I can guarantee you that women (and men) who have been raped read this site.
I don’t use the term sociopath often or lightly, but you really seem to fit a lot of the criteria.
If only someone would provide poor hyper-wrong with some data or studies that show exactly this…
Oh wait… you say we have? Surely he’s read them, right? Right?
Sigh. I guess not.
Yup… rape trauma is purely a consequence of peer pressure and pop culture…
Done. With. You.
Walton,
Asking a lot . . .
Still learning,
Robert
“Don’t loathe the, um, for lack of a better word, man; pity him.”
For my part, I do pity him. I also don’t give a rat’s ass about him. Care is reserved for the people I met everyday who have been through this, are attempting to live with it and don’t deserve to be dismissed and diminished even by such a worthless sociopathic bigot.
Don’t mistake contempt for anger, is what I’m saying.
We’ve explained all of this to you already, on the “oblivious white male” thread (in other words, the one about you personally). Look, I’m doing your homework for you: here is the link again.
Click on it and read.
Hyperon is one hella dodgeball player with how much evidence he’s dodged.
That sound you hear is the sound of the the nail being hit squarely on the head, courtesy Brownian, OM…
“I don’t use the term sociopath often or lightly, but you really seem to fit a lot of the criteria.”
Carlie’s right – he needs to stay away from women. His light treatment of rape, callous disregard for others, denial of evidence and victims’ experience, power complexes, desire to be seen as the true victim. He’s a near perfect textbook example of exactly the type of guy who doesn’t hear or heed the word “no”.
Walton,
WHY is it ridiculous? Think about what you’re saying. In a nutshell, you believe it is right and proper to take for granted that “rape” cannot be compared with any kind of physical assault. You think I should take it on faith that I’m just wrong — and that’s all there is to it. End of conversation.
What do you think it is about rape that makes it so privileged? Is it the act of defiling another human being with the precious bodily fluids? Maybe the moment penetration occurs, the Form of Rape is realized in the Magic Citadel of the Clouds?
you innumerate, hateful piece of shit, there aren’t enough men in prisons for that to be true!
and that wiki article you claim as a source? it gives between 140 000 and 43 800. it doesn’t say whether this is total or annual, but let’s be generous and assume they mean annual estimated cases.
in contrast to that, the wiki article on rape in general states this:
According to United States Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, there were overall 191,670 victims of rape or sexual assault reported in 2005.[16] Only 16% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the police (Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. 1992).[17] 1 of 6 U.S. women has experienced an attempted or completed rape.
U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1999) estimated that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, with 99% of the offenders being male.
one in six of the total female population of the U.S. is over 24 million women.
Definitely true. Considering how often the regulars have told him to go away, but he keeps forcing himself and his smelly sexist/racist/bigot agenda back on us. He appears to be functionally deaf.
No, Hypermoron, that’s not it. None of that is it.
Comment 402.
The fact you have to even make such a ridiculous statement is evidence enough of myopic and ignorant you are.
“You think I should take it on faith that I’m just wrong — and that’s all there is to it. End of conversation. ”
See what I mean? There’s been how many links provided to him, but not by Walton, so that’s who he focuses this line of bullshit on. He’s too much of a coward to read anything else provided to him, so he can only say this to someone who hasn’t provided links. Cowardice becomes him.
Maybe MRA was the wrong classification. Perhaps utterly failed member of the PUA community is more accurate.
:-D :-D :-D
Pwnd!!!
he already has; that line about rape being a “temporary inconvenience”? that was a response to a poster admitting she was raped.
Hyperon do you work closely with women or come into contact with them regularly?
Anywhere?
Sili,
Done. Thanks for the head’s up.
“he already has; that line about rape being a “temporary inconvenience”? that was a response to a poster admitting she was raped. ”
So, are we still confused as to why there’s not a lot of women round these parts?
Speaking of Botanical Wednesday, anyone savvy about flowers able to tell me what the fuck this thing is? It was climbing up a trellis sometime in the (early?) fall in Seattle and the flowers were several inches across. I don’t even know where to begin looking it up.
This altered question may be more appropriate.
Sorry Endor, I wasn’t trying to be pedantic; feel however you want about the boy. I personally think there are a lot of reasons to loathe him and be enraged by him; I’m just pointing out that wanks like him are dime-a-dozen. I personally recall no less than two such brave little thinkers writing for the college rag one year when I was in my first undergraduate; one would write inflammatory articles about how over-blown rape is, and the other would write articles justifying why East Timor needed a good invading (the arguments followed the same pattern: secretly, deep down, women/East Timor really want a good, hard man/Indonesia inside them*). Maybe mommy was too stern and daddy wasn’t a chordate; whatever the reason for their Napoleon complex, they assuage their terror by attacking groups who have been legitimately victimised through pseudo-intellectualism, allowing them to effectively be bullies while maintaining the moral superiority of non-violence. The irritating thing is that they tend to pick up disciples from that sub-group of nerds who can’t abide the fact that not only did the football captain push ’em around, but those fucking women won’t give them the time of day. “Man, I got 1388 on my SATs; how dare those uppity bitches ignore me?” say their loyal disciples, “That ugly guy over there is right; them and the darkies just love to pick on us white men.” Even worse, there are always a few women who fall for their mental warrior-within schtick.
Perhaps we should take up a fund to send him to one of those retreats where he can learn to finally embrace his Y-chromosome and stop attention-grabbing here.
In re: Hyperon. At what point do Insipidity, Stupidity, Trolling, and Wanking reach critical mass?
Still learning,
Robert
I think this is from June, 2009 (but not dated on the web page, that I can see): http://www.rom.on.ca/media/podcasts/display.php?id=78 It’s Christopher Hitchens giving his analysis of the Ten Commandments, as part of the Director’s Signature Lecture Series at the Royal Ontario Museum.
Gah, I hate you, Tripod.
Anyone interested in helping identify this monster of a flower will have to copy and past these into the URL bar. Grr.
http://a.noyd.tripod.com/flower01.jpg
http://a.noyd.tripod.com/flower02.jpg
A. Noyd, for some reason, both of your links take me here: http://a.noyd.tripod.com/adm/interstitial/remote.jpg
Well true if I was trying to find out about his experiences with women or people, but I was just wanting to find out if there was a way I could warn them that they work with a psychopath.
Run! It’s a triffid!
I’ve stayed out of this thread because of past experiences in my life which I have mentioned on a previous thread. It’s not painful as such to talk about it, just really goddamn tiresome to try and make a clearly deluded person see any light. I could try and argue the case for rape victims everywhere but I’d rather save my breath and try to enlighten someone who may just have a thread of humanity and be ABLE to have their opinion changed. I do however just want to poop my head in to say 2 things.
1) I am heartened by the comments here. Obviously there’s one sick and twisted individual but clearly everyone else is against his “opinions” and are soundly rejecting any of his “theories”. You have rounded on him and told him off in various forms and I think that clearly shows who has the better morals and values. You guys give me a warm fuzzy feeling sometimes and that’s why I love being part of this place.
2) I have never done this, as I always kind of found troll comments on some level amusing, but I have now activated a killfile and it’s first resident is Hyperon. I refuse to waste valuable reading time trying to understand why someone is so very, very sick in their morals but seems to persistently refuse to acknolwedge it.
Brownian – No worries, I got where you were coming from (and apologies if that came off as scoldy. Wasn’t my intention).
Since he is a troll, angering and hurting people is his raison d’etre, so I wanted to make it clear that, for my part at least, I’m not angry, I’m contemptuous and feel very sorry for him.
That said, I think you’re completely right on their motivations. The coddled and clueless have usually been, in my experience, the most callous.
@ #426
.. ah “poop” my head. Rather appropriate typo I think
goOGle it!
Actually, here, let me gOGle it 4 U
Well, I think we can rule out a Triffid, mostly because you don’t appear to be dead.
Strange, both links work for me. Does it depend on the browser!?!
Unfortunately I can’t help with the botany at all, except for a time-waster I’ll link to soon…
I’m not sure he’s really trolling, but the stupidity is strong in him. He seems to honestly believe that the world can’t be any more complex than his restricted imagination.
No, because we’re counting the possibility of multiple rapes on the same person. It does seem suspect, I admit; for it to be true, a person who’s been to prison would have to be raped about 2.8 times on average. However, Human Rights Watch estimates that about 140,000 instances of male-male rape occur annually. About 90,000 instances of male-female rape occur annually.
Ah. But if our apparent psychopath is as bad as disguising his problems in person as it is in e-writing, I suspect they (if there are any who haven’t left yet) already suspect that… but still, warning them (again?) is a good idea.
fixed, dumbass.
Hypershits arithmatic skills are the same as his thinking, cognative, and empathy skills. Non-existent. Hypershit, nobody here thinks you are anything other than a smelly something to scrap off our shoes. You can’t think, you can’t find and process evidence, and you are so arrogant you can’t comprehend how many times and how badly you have been refuted. And you prentend you haven’t. Many of us teach or have done so. So we understand evidence, and what it means. It is clear you don’t. And you still haven’t proven anything other than you are a shithead.
Pill. :) Paul W. already found it. I had tried, but I thought it was internet slang so I added unnecessary search terms.
Read it again.
No, you can’t compare those two figures.
One is an extrapolation from a series of small studies. Methodology? We don’t know. The other is the FBI’s note of recorded rapes and we already that a very high proportion of rapes are never reported.
We’d also need to know the precise definition of “forcible rape” – could that be stranger rape? Also how many of the rapes reported are either not recorded or recorded in some other way? There’s plenty of research on that, too.
Apples and oranges. And your agenda is still showing.
so you’re not only innumerate, but also illiterate. the first number is the estimated number of all prison rapes. the second number is the number of reported rapes, which is somewhere between 37% and 26% of the total rapes(i.e. estimated total at least 250 000); other statistics say that 71 in 100 000 (that’s 102 000 for the U.S.A) women were forcibly raped per year[source].
Bah, I ask for help and immediately after try the magical search parameters that gets me a site with what I need. It’s a blue passion flower. If Wikipedia’s to be trusted, its name comes from the whole Jesus torture thing. I would have figured it came from the giant and prominent sex parts, myself. This plant clearly wants to fuck something. Passionately.
The Elizabeth passionflower and maypop on the first site are particularly awesome looking, too. The Wiki main article has some crazy ones as well. Check the P. ×decaisneana at the very bottom.
Hyperon,
I don’t know why you hate women so much. I’m glad it’s not up to you and other misogynists to decide what is a crime.
As long as you continue to regard women as souless commodities/reproductive machines/possessions/sex devices/domestic servants you will continue to think of rape as only a physical assault on the women’s uterus, uterus that doesn’t even belong to women, but to the body politic of men.
I sincerely hope you’ll be able to take “NO” for an answer in your future dealings with women.
No. About 90,000 instances of male/female rape are reported annually (and back when the estimates on prison rapes were made, more than 100,000 rapes were reported annually). It’s estimated that a lot more are raped than that.
You can’t compare estimated numbers with reported numbers – either you estimate reported numbers in all cases, or estimated case in all cases. And the later can only be properly done if the same methodology has been used in all estimations.
…… we already know …….
This little turd is doing my head in. I’m going back to my knitting and, believe me, you get more intelligent feedback from a ball of yarn than any of us ever will from Hyperon.
As in , “No I better not associate with them in any way or fashion and should instead sequester myself to a cabin in the middle of the wilderness so that my idiocy doesn’t cause me to act out on my psychotic desires.”
Doesn’t work for me in FireFox 3.5.7; I had to copy-and-paste the URLs into the destination bar.
Ditto with Opera 10.10, also no workee.
Ditto with Konqueror 4.3.2, also no workee.
At which point I gave up. All on Linux, of course (Ubuntu 9.10).
I did not try playing with whether or not to send a referrer, which is my (naive!) guess as to what the dumbfecks on the other end are doing.
I wasn’t counting female inmates, if that’s what you mean. Unimportant, though. The essential point is that, just as I claimed, there is some data suggesting the possibility that more male-male rapes occur annually than male-females rapes.
Only if you ignore everything we know about how often rapes are reported.
It appears to be the estimated number of male prisoners who have been raped.
you know what amuses me about Hyperon citing prison rape statistics? it’s that in the thread about the university shooting, he was whining about us caring what happens to criminals/convicts and wanting better conditions for them, while he insisted that “psychos” deserved locking up for as long as possible as punishment.
interesting how that works…
So now we know! He has fantasies about being raped by a man even more “male” that he is.
‘Night, all.
Guess confirmed: Opera 10.10 can follow the links just fine if Send Referrer Information is disabled. I’ve no idea why the dumbfecks on the other end don’t like some(? all?) embedded links. Maybe an ex-SciBorgs ITiot works there?
Hyperon, all the data suggests you are full of shit. What else is new? Your data is bogus, just like your thought processes. Time for you to acknowledge the truth about yourself. You are a shitheaded bigot/sexist/racist. Seek professional help. You need it.
A. Noyd:
It’s a Passion flower.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passion_flower
so what?
ah, you’re right.
No there isn’t. Just because you’re too stupid to understand how one can compare numbers, doesn’t mean that the numbers means what you think.
There are estimations showing that prison rape is greatly underestimated. These estimations are based upon studies, which differ greatly, and are worst-case estimates, not realistic estimates.
The FBI crime statistics are, on the other hand, the absolute lower bound of the number of rapes done to women annually.
It wasn’t. See #447.
You’re an utter moron.
True enough, although I sincerely doubt that unreported male-female rapes are going to boost the numbers of male-female rapes by around 55%. Anyway, all that matters here is that it is possible, in consideration of the figures we have, that more male-male rapes occur than male-female rapes (at least in the US). It’s therefore unfair to regard my opinions on rape to be somehow discriminating against women.
A. Noyd, I see by the time I posted, you’d already found it.
I had to check my garden book, which slowed me down. Glad you were able to solve your mystery. :-D
only to people who can’t tell the difference between extrapolations from limited datasets and reported cases.
It appears to be the estimated number of male prisoners who have been raped in prison.
Leave it to a shit for brains fuckwit to skew the data. Unfortunately for his paranoia, we, who know and understand evidence, look at the bigger picture, where his lies are exposed for the shitty
thinkingunthought processes that occurred.Wait, that was your point? That your attitudes about rape can’t possibly be misogynistic because under some circumstances men get raped too?
Really?
As SC has helpfully pointed out to you (and the rest of us), the numbers reported on prison rape are not annual numbers, but total numbers, so even if we took those numbers at face value, it would still not mean what you think it means.
Given the numbers I’ve seen, the number of unreported rapes would indeed boost the amount with 55% – as a matter of fact, the estimates from FBI appears to be that only 37% of all rapes are reported (one source referring this claim can be found here) with others estimating even lower numbers.
So, to sum it up, not only are you comparing worst-case estimates with reported numbers, you are confusing total numbers with annual numbers, and you really have no clue about what estimates are out there.
AS a man who has been raped – I post to confirm that a certain person in this tread should be barred from all human contact until the unlikely event that he mends his ways.
Rape is one of the most horrible things that could happen to a person. Full stop.
You don’t get to compare this like that and say “but it happens to men too, so it’s ok”. You don’t try to make it trivial by playing numbers games. Violent crime is not a game to see which sex suffers the most.
Do the world a favour: Don’t breathe another word in public ever again.
except of course it does do exactly that, and more. depending on your source, the rate of reporting rape goes from 16% to 37%. extrapolating from the number of actually reported rapes, that’s between 562000 and 243000, i.e. decidedly more than 140000 in any case.
STFU and stop trying to convince us you’re not a misogynist.
Katrina (#458)
Only just, though. That was the second time I’d tried figuring it out since I took those pics, so I appreciate you taking the time to look!
how weird, It ate my blockquote. anyway, i was responding to Hyperfucks incredulity and willful ignorance about how estimates couldn’t possibly bump the male-on-female rape rate above 140000
What keeps me coming back to these discussions? Because of posts like #447. That one observation, of only a few words, undercut several hundred words Hyperon has used in an attempt to justify his opinion.
Fucking brilliant.
@ Jadehawk:
misogynism would be a huge step up for the fucker.
No, his point is that he thinks he’s an intellectual but unfunny Lenny Bruce.
is that so? it doesn’t say so anywhere explicitly as far as I can tell, and one of the sources talks about doing an estimate one year, then repeating the study and estimate the following year. if it’s true though that would make hyperfuck’s point even more idiotically wrong.
Hyperon does not get emotional even about the topic that is supposed to be so meaningful to him–that men have it tougher, they are abused and murdered, etc. His flat affect is overwhelmingly present all the time, even when he discusses matters supposedly close to his heart. He sounds like he is borderline psychopathic.
I can imagine when he cherry picks stats to support his emotionless opinions, that he probably just grunts with a cold-headed nod, yeah, that is what I mean exactly, men have it worse, without feeling anything at all.
One thing is sure, this guy will never hurt himself. Others, maybe.
No, my point is more along the lines of: since rape is a relatively unisex phenomenon, why is my position being denounced as a misogynistic position?
No idea what you’re talking about. The 140,000 figure clearly relates to rapes being carried out annually.
Entirely consistent with the data I cited suggesting that most rapes might be unreported male-male rapes occurring in prisons.
It gives us a good order of magnitude estimate — better than nothing. It makes it quite clear that rape is a unisex phenomenon, with a significant percentage of rapes being male-male. This was the only point I required. Enough with the irrelevant carping.
Anyhow, when you start getting treated like Josef Fritzl merely because you try to speak honestly about the reality of human suffering, then it’s time to get your coat. (If anyone has any interesting substantive points to offer, I might to them briefly.)
PZ sez :
Might want to make sure the dentist’s name isn’t McLeroy !
Should we be asking for the soft menu for you at the convention dinner ?
;)
I’m sorry if someone already linked to this, but the Justice Department’s statistics are extremely interesting.
Full Report of the Prevalence, Incidence, and Consequences of Violence Against Women
The report is 10 years old, but the report is quite informative, as it compares violence against women with violence against men, as well as racial breakdowns.
I was wrong. Fucker thinks he’s funny, too.
“Fucker thinks he’s funny, too.”
He uses a man who imprisoned and raped his daughter for two decades as a joke right and he’s confused as to why we think he’s a misogynist.
he’s a sick, deluded coward.
Quote the portions that clearly show that.
Shit for brains just can’t acknowledge he has nothing. What a loser. If he had real evidence, the type that a real scientist would use, it would have been presented days ago and convinced us all. But, when one is a shit for brains loser, good data is hard to come by. So, it has to be manufactured and twisted by the loser. Boring. We see that all the time from godbots and creobots. Now a sexistbot.
Oh, he wasn’t joking about being compared to Fritzl. Yes, dear, it’s best you get your coat. You’re just too intellectually brave to be subjected to our boorishness. Make sure to shake out that coat first; never know when a member of the Muslim Cliterati PC Police might have tried to bug you.
*Sniff* [Wipes away a tear while saluting] Go, brave young patriot. I fear we shall never see a Champion of Truth such as you again, at least until next September when another batch of young turks registers for Political Science 215: Contemporary Social Issues with a bone to pick.
And don’t you worry about that cute girl who won’t give your superior intelligence the time of day. She’s probably just stuck up.
SC,
(If anyone has any interesting substantive points to offer, I might to them briefly.)
You are a liar. People have had so many points for you, you look like a porcupine furry.
Also, better to be treated like Josef Fritzl then to be treated like his daughter.
I have to take at least three showers to get the stench and filth off of me.
killfile
Just Sayin’…
P.S.:I had to reread it, too, to notice that it was really talking about totals, not rates; but then, it wasn’t my source, I wasn’t using it to support a specious argument, and I noticed it on second reading. Hyperfuck here doesn’t even notice it when he quotes it…
Are you fucking insane? Maybe. But more likely you’re just a misogynistic asshole who wants things the way he wants them to be so he can play the oh poor males being persecuted card.
What an sad person you are.
Ah,shit for brains still has no substantive evidence, just his delusional manufactured and twisted stuff. Of course, since he is making the claims, the burden of proof is upon him. Total and utter failure on shit for brains part even to begin to address his claims. We decide the level of evidence, not him. He needed ten feet of data, and presented a quarter of an inch. Loser.
I almost died laughing because it was so sincerely said. :D Typos r r friends when they lead to laughter.
Something tells me you experienced a very disturbing childhood. You haven’t defined what age group you are talking about, ruled out the cultural impact on the knowledge of children so that it isn’t a learned discrimination, ruled out something like cootie-phobia, shown that it is something that can’t be unlearned, disclosed the source of this assertion, or anything else that would be necessary to posit this conclusion.
If we took children to mean the age group 0 to 10, then you would be having us believe that kids that age actually know what sexual orientation is, which I rather doubt (although kids these days might be learning about it earlier but even if that were true then do they really know what it means or is it just a vague impression?). And homophobia still can’t be said to be innate in older children without evidence ruling out culture. It smacks of an attempt to dismiss bigotry against gays as a real concern among our species. Now, how long till you trot off and ne’er return?
Talk about sensual— it sounds like a porn setup. I’m so glad you are doing well and back on Teh Thread!
Youch. I hope you get well soon and that the suffering is as short as possible.
PZ, you missed Beer Week in Sacramento. I didn’t know about it until a few minutes ago.
Details here.
You gotta start planning your trips better.
Yes, you moron!
A. Noyd,
I see you have already solved the mystery and my help wasn’t needed. Actually, I do have a few of those in my garden, so I identified the flower immediately. Beautiful flowers, delicious fruits*.
*BTW, I see that Wiki as the following to say about them:
Do not believe it! The fruit is incredibly sweet, unless it’s still unripe. I don’t believe the person who wrote that has ever eaten a ripe Blue Passion’s fruit.
H:
It’s only “relatively unisex” because you’ve dredged up prison rapes to compare with rapes in society at large.
Your main point, as I make it, it to engage in endless protestations.
Just want to point out again that it doesn’t appear to be talking about rates of rape at all, but about numbers of people who were raped at least once. This would actually help Hyperon’s case if it wasn’t fatally flawed to begin with for all of the reasons we have pointed out.
We’ve seen this before. Make vague statement that’s guaranteed to raise somebody’s ire. When called on it, provide unsourced supporting anecdotes (“Everybody knows it”, “I’ve heard stories”, “I just remember how my dad was scared of homosexuals while working in a factory to support bon bon-eating golddiggers when he was a child”) while complaining about persecution, just long enough to dig up a few statistics that don’t really apply, or shouldn’t be generalised from. Criticise any statistics or arguments against as being ‘irrelevant’. Claim more persecution. Argue about the statistics. If really cornered, claim he didn’t really claim that “all” children are homophobic, so any exceptions aren’t applicable. Claim more persecution. After a few hundred meandering comments arguing about the meaning of this study or that, what constitutes a ‘child’, ‘tend’ and ‘homophobic’, start all over again by mentioning something equally stupid like ‘nobody seems to care that men pay nearly all child support’. Rinse and repeat.
Right, that’s exactly what I was doing. Sorry about that. I’m wrong. In my defense, it’s hard to be on the receiving end of such a volume of hateful abuse and at the same time function with all systems optimal.
Okay, this is important; make sure your bathroom wasn’t engineered by one B.S. Johnson….
On the subject of B.S., reading Hyperon’s posts on how a severe beating is more traumatising for a man than rape is for a woman, an idea drifted through my mind. I’ve read and heard about guys bragging about fights they’ve been in, boasting about how much damage they were able to take, even showing off their battle scars to other guys. I don’t recall ever hearing or reading about gals bragging about having been raped. Are we to infer that being beaten isn’t, after all, all that traumatic for a man?
Hyperon, maybe you’re just miswired….
fixed
See? I’m not wrong; you’re all being so mean to me it just looks like I am.
Funny how in a discussion of physical assault and rape, getting called a racist, misogynist piece of shit somehow equals ‘abuse’.
We’re just holding up a mirror. Just because your words are devoid of emotion and color doesn’t mean what you say has no emotional impact on others.
Eek, why did I unkill Hyperon? My guess is that he’s never had sex, period. That’s the only explanation I can think of why he can’t comprehend how rape IS assault. – Carlie
Of course, there is another possibility (and I emphasise, it is only that): that Hyperon has had sex, but the other person involved did not consent. Who but a rapist has so clear a motivation to minimise the awfulness of rape?
Scorecard for the Day
Pharyngula 100
Hypershit 0
About as expected.
I propose we call the Anal Hyperon award the Anual award for the worst commenter on Pharyngula.
And I propose that the first Anal Hyperon award be awarded to :
Hyperon