Old thread has too many comments. Need new thread. Brain fried. Don’t ask too much of me.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
Old thread has too many comments. Need new thread. Brain fried. Don’t ask too much of me.
Wow, my previous post was the final one on the last subThread. I bet no one will actually respond to it now. :-(
Anyway, I have an essay to do by tomorrow morning and must stop procrastinating.
it’s the spelling; plus the constant explaining that, no, that’s not an -ski at the end, really, I know what I’m talking about; plus on a purely aesthetic level, I have a personal distaste for combinations of long first names with long last names. If I didn’t also dislike my middle name, I could have switched to that and have a short first and long last name, but as it is, changing the last name to a short one works too.
Why not? To tired? Lazy? Going to Scarborough Fair? Painting the moon black? Stopping in the name of love, before you break my heart? Killing in the name of? A spider sat beside you while you ate curds and weigh? huh? Why, PZ?
David Marjanović @ 937:
Like Miki Z @ 855 said, couples in Japan sometimes take the man’s name… the only example of that happening that I know of off the top of my head is fictional, though. As I understand it, it’s usually a class thing, which has its own share of problems.
I know the feeling PZ. Spent all day in a meeting with some new clients (overseers) for an old project. I feel like you did on your jet lag day…
<shiver>
<turning off after 8 seconds>
Fortunately I managed to escape this one. But, yes, plenty of ugliness and stupidity in the 90s. The 60s and 70s (…and 80s even) were just worse. Much worse.
It only looks that way, because the Polish spelling system needs on average two letters for every consonant…
<facepalm>
Did at least the Germans get that right? At least occasionally?
OH AMERICAN SOCIETY NO
If I did get married I’d almost beg my wife not to take my common, excruciatingly dull surname. Heck, maybe I’d only get married if it meant I’d have a reasonable reason to ditch mine and take hers…
As far as Greg Laden is concerned, this is what first happened to take my eye when I peeked at the thread in question, never having followed his blog. Excuse the longish quote:
I want to make a couple of comments on UK antisemitism as I understand it. This will be an oversimplification, and it will be based on having worked very closely with Israelis in a British context and an American Jew (with whom I worked on race issues) who had been working in a British context until he could not take it any longer.
New Atheism is not likely to be at the root of the added antisemitism we may see from the UK. It may be a factor and there may be individual personality issues at play, but it must be overshadowed by much bigger issues.
The English/British (we can start a flame war later on what the correct term is) have a prior colonial history with “Semites” some of whom happen to be Jewish. There is a relationship there that has not really been resolved that involves old fashioned English racism and resentment thereof.
In that context, both English and US interests (including all sorts of institutional entities) went along with the whole Central European anti Jewish thing that was manifest eventually as the holocaust with many helping hands. From a European Jewish perspective, if the Germans were not at war with the Brits, the Brits would have been directly involved in the holocaust. The Americans too but more indirectly. That may be an exaggeration, but not much of one.
So there is a bit of tension left over from that second factor.
Then, the British totally screwed the Jews in Palestine, from the Jewish Perspective. One can argue all one wants as to what could have or should have happened, or should now happen, to the way land is divided up in the Levant, but history could have actually led to a state of Israel much like what ended up occurring without several additional bad things happening to the Jews there because of specific and blatantly anti-Jewish British decisions. Just like many Jews have relatives who died in the holocaust, some Jews have relatives who died because of the British at that time. This is not a small matter.
And of course, a perfectly appropriate British response to being guilty of oppression is to get all huffy and arrogant about it.
Then, subsequently, yes, there have been the recent politics that have been mentioned in relation to Israel, but that is not so much something new as just more of the same.
The British “left” is not anti-Semitic because it is atheist. The British “left” is anti-Semitic because it is British, and there is a shiny new coin or two in the anti-Semitic purse in the form of anti-Israel (as the bad guy government) sentiment.
But beyond that, this is worth noting: Middle class educated WASP American society is plenty anti-semetic. But from what I understand, British middle class educated society is much more blatantly anti-semetic. The British PC standard line on Jews is fundamentally different from the American. I suspect this has a lot to do with the closer continental ties in Britain, immigration history differences, and a difference in the way intellectual resources were divvied up after WWII and in relation to the cold war. During the cold war, for every South Asian mathematician or physicist moved to England from the colonies to do brilliant work, there are five Jewish German “Rocket Scientists” in the US. And I pulled those numbers out of my ass, but as I sit here thinking about it it seems about right.
This has so many interpenetrating layers of stupidity and ignorance in it that it would take a long time to dissect them all out. The following is by no means a complete analysis.
Paragraph 1: OK, he’s basing his view of antisemitism in the UK on what a handful of non-British people he’s worked with have told him.
Paragraph 3:
“The English/British (we can start a flame war later on what the correct term is) have a prior colonial history with “Semites” some of whom happen to be Jewish.”
It should of course be “British”: Scots, Welsh and even Irish were deeply involved in British imperialism. I did him the courtesy of assuming that the scare-quotes around “Semites” indicated that he knew this was not a term that could be applied to any modern population except by a racist. Quite possibly I was too generous.
Paragraph 4:
“From a European Jewish perspective, if the Germans were not at war with the Brits, the Brits would have been directly involved in the holocaust.”
WTF? I have never heard any European Jew say or hint at anything so ridiculous (and I have worked and socialised with many, and for 10 years, was the partner of the daughter of a German and an Austrian Jew who fled the Nazis just in time and lost many family members in the Shoah). I dare say the likes of Henry Gee may say such things, but I have been fortunate enough not to encounter them. Of course antisemitism was very widespread in pre-WWII Britain, as in all of Europe, the USA, and other European settler countries, but it had not for centuries had the venomous intensity it had in much of eastern Europe, let alone the systematic planning and execution of mass-murder it attained in Nazism. The holocaust, of course, did not begin until after WWII started.
Paragraph 6: this is all about why Jews (in Laden’s view) are anti-British, not why the British (as Laden claims) are particularly antisemitic. It is true some Jews died because the British restricted Jewish immigration to both Britain and Palestine; it is also true that some died because the USA imposed quotas on Jewish immigration, so this can’t explain the supposed particular animus Jews feel against Britain, let alone the supposed unusual degree of antisemitism in Britain. I am absolutely no defender of British imperialism: in WWI, one of the central British war aims was to extend imperial control over as much of the near East as possible, and subsequent British policy left both Jews and Palestinian Arabs feeling justifiably betrayed; but this has little or no connection to current British attitudes to either Jews or Arabs, or to the Israel/Palestine question. Suez, where Britain conspired with France and Israel to attack Egypt, and the USA rightly intervened to halt their aggression is more recent – but where do these events fit into Laden’s weirdly distorted picture?
Paragraph 7:
“And of course, a perfectly appropriate British response to being guilty of oppression is to get all huffy and arrogant about it.”
So if any Brit disagrees with Laden, that just proves how right he is.
Paragraph 8:
“just more of the same”. More of what same, FFS?
Paragraph 9:
“The British “left” is anti-Semitic because it is British”
Note: not “parts of the British left”; and as shown, almost all of Laden’s diatribe is about why Jews (in his view) hate the British, not vice versa. I’m not sure what the scare-quotes around “left” are about.
Later, in a response to me which he pretended was not defending his view, Laden substituted:
“British Liberals are sometimes antisemitic because they are part of a society where antisemitism is relatively common.”
That, specifically, is why I call him a liar as well as a fuckwit: the distance between the original claim and the pretended restatement of that claim is vast. It also demonstrates that Laden is completely ignorant about British politics, in that he equates “left” and “liberal”, which is simply nonsense in British terms: British “liberals”, whether with a large or a small “l”, constitute the soggy centre.
Paragraph 10:
“But from what I understand, British middle class educated society is much more blatantly anti-semetic.”
IOW, he’s never actually mixed in that society, but a few non-British people he’s worked with have told him so. Blatant antisemitism is probably as taboo in “British middle class educated society” as in its American equivalent, if only because a significant proportion of those belonging to it are Jews, or married to Jews, or close friends of Jews, etc., and the antisemite doesn’t know who will object. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a lot of covert antisemitism, but FFS even our fascists have to pretend they’re not antisemitic in order to present a “respectable” face. Blatant antisemitism in Britain is the preserve of a few beyond-the-loony-fringe swastika-wearers, and a considerably larger number of Islamist extremists. The “respectable” form of race hatred is now Islamophobia.
Paragraph 11:
“a difference in the way intellectual resources were divvied up after WWII and in relation to the cold war. During the cold war, for every South Asian mathematician or physicist moved to England from the colonies to do brilliant work, there are five Jewish German “Rocket Scientists” in the US.”
The man’s a complete ignoramus. Many more European Jewish than south Asian scientists and mathematicians live and work in Britain, and that was the case throughout the 20th century.
The whole screed is a fine example of the Dunning-Kruger effect: Laden knows fuck-all about Britain, but his certainty in his ludicrous conclusions matches his ignorance. I’ve gone on longer than I intended – but that kind of cocksure ignorance and irrationality is why I have no interest whatever in having Laden as an “ally”, or indeed having anything to do with him at all.
yeah, that -a at the end was the only thing the Germans didn’t seem to have a problem with. Everything else though was a PAAAIIIINNNN.
With the Germans though, I had lot’s of fun as a 7-year-old constantly explaining to adults that my first name doesn’t have a “c” at the beginning, nor a “e” at the end; and that I most certainly do NOT need to use a new “German” name, just because I no longer live in Poland.
The Americans take non-standard spellings(and pronunciations) of first names as a matter of course, and don’t argue with me over it. It’s nice.
Ahem. I believe you missed the tag on your link:
(/^NSFA.)
Somehow my blockquote@9 got lost in the thread transfer, but I think the limits of the quote from Greg Laden are fairly clear: my commentary on it starts at:
“This has so many interpenetrating layers of stupidity and ignorance…”
lot’s? really?
oops.
I have an essay to do by tomorrow morning and must stop procrastinating. – Walton
In my student days, I always found that Rwandan coffee helped if I had an all-nighter ;-)
Sure, like “lot’s looking to adopt some haitian kids after CPS took his”.
Very happy those Americans got arrested. The more that comes out the worse they look, as they have now dropped all pretense that they were trying to help orphans:
Knockgoats, did you see the recent remarks by Gee that I quoted there and here about how “the Left [British and US] hates Jews”? They’re quite something.
Heh. I can see the singles ad now: ‘SM seeks SF with non-boring surname…’
I’ve nothing against my surname, and no real determined views either way on the subject of passing ’em around at marriage, but for reasons sorta related to this, my wife didn’t take mine. She probably wouldn’t have anyway, but regardless, we both agreed well ahead that for aesthetic reasons it would have just been a bad idea. Her name is very Arabic, mine’s very not. It woulda just sounded downright jarring even hyphenating what she uses for a surname, and mixing her given with mine, again.
(/On the other hand, I guess it could also have come off sorta like sorta strange Sugarcubes lyrics thing–y’know, like either Bjork or Einar had just snuck into the studio after mastering and laid their stuff in on top without the other even knowing… Which mighta been cool, if we’d got a hit out of it, anyway.)
Knockgoats,
Why didn’t you respond to Greg Laden on his blog? Does he censor comments?
I’m glad I missed Laden’s post where he showed his ignorance about both Jews and Britons. I’ve deleted his blog from my bookmarks.
Here’s Joe Hill’s most famous song, “The Preacher and the Slave”:
In reference to the name-change stuff, of course I’ve no objection to anyone changing their name, for any reason. What I was questioning, as someone suggested, (sorry, not going back to the old thread to check who), was Alan B.’s expressed preference for women taking their husband’s surname on marriage. Why is it any concern of his? Does he just frown inwardly when a female acquaintance refuses to do the decent thing, or does he deliberately address her as Mrs. Husbandsname?
On a personal level, I don’t much like my surname, and certainly didn’t want to inflict it on anyone else; but it would have been inconvenient professionally for either of us to take the other’s name. Our son uses my wife’s surname, but I suspect that if someone wanted to find his birth certificate, they would need mine – I registered as his father after his birth, and I think they automatically file the birth under the father’s name if that is done. My younger brother’s wife and children use his name – but hers was very readily mockable; my elder brother and his wife have each kept their own, and one son has taken each, according to their own preferences. My sister briefly changed her name to her partner’s without marrying, but then changed back, before splitting up with him.
My mother actually retained my father’s last name after the divorce. She grew up in Latin America and never really assimilated into Anglo-American culture. She currently lives in a very Hispanic part of the US and manages just fine. However, because she is very white and her maiden name is English she often gets mistaken for an “Anglo”. This got a little tiresome since she did most of her work with people who spoke exclusively Spanish. So she kept my father’s last name, which is a common Hispanic surname. Funny enough, it’s not “really” an Hispanic surname but the Hispanization (?) of my great grandfather’s Chinese surname.
If PZ is going to give us beer commercials then how about one of the most famous:
Guinness. BRILLIANT!
So did mine. Though that may be partly because they changed their last name together anyway.
My wife chose to take my name, I told her I didn’t care if she did or didn’t. I didn’t want to change mine, not out of a sense of entitlement but because I like my name.
SC,OM@16,
Yes, I did! Of course, there is antisemitism in the left, it has a long history and remains a real and serious problem (for the British case, see the book I referenced on Laden’s blog, Steve Cohen’s That’s Funny, You Don’t Look Anti-Semitic, which is now available somewhere on the interwebs), but Gee’s claims are both absurd and, I think, put forward in bad faith – at some level, he knows they are not true, and similarly that “new atheists” are not itching to burn down synagogues – but he uses them as a weapon against those he hates and probably thinks he believes them! The absurdity is most obvious in the fact that Jews have always been prominent among the British left – I guess he’d say they are all “self-hating Jews”.
qbsmd,
I did respond briefly and (I admit) angrily on Laden’s blog, whereupon he promptly complained that my tone was obnoxious, and implicitly threatened to ban me. I’m not interested in an argument where he can say whatever he pleases, and I can be banned or censored any time he chooses. I posted here in response to Paul W., not Laden himself.
SC –
I just wanted to tell you I’ve followed your battle on Greg Laden’s blog, and I’ve been silently rooting for you (sorry I didn’t jump in, maybe next time). Henry Gee’s behavior here at Pharyngula was indeed morally reprehensible, and any clear-thinking person ought to have reconsidered his/her take on Gee’s recent antics after you brought this up. The bullshit Stephanie Z and, sadly, Laden, flung at you was mind-boggling. I was having a hard time believing they were native readers of English, saying the things they did.
Well past time I was abed. I tend to stay up late when my wife’s away, but I do need to go to work, and the dog will require her walk as usual beforehand. ‘Night all!
I was all ready to give him the benefit of the doubt and suggest the tone comment was a joke related to the scio10 civility discussion, but I can’t find the post at all. Did he remove it?
Relating to something Alan B said earlier, my wife and I spliced our surnames: first half is mine*, second half is hers. We hope our (future) kids and their spouses go on to do the same, if feasible. Descent with modification FTW!
*Not because the man goes first…it just did not sound very good the other way round.
re #9
I had a Jewish friend years ago who hated people who played the anti-semitism card at the drop of a hat. He said it belittled the real horror of real anti-semitism.
I know that it’s still out there in general US and UK culture. My mentor, a very smart, very sweet woman whom I adored once shocked me down to my toes because she used the expression, “They sure jewed him out of that”, and when I objected, she was surprised and said, “Oh, it’s just a saying.” And there is probably some truth to that. She was a kid in New England just before and during WWII and the anti-semitism was rampant, so it was a saying she must have heard many times. But it still disturbed me a great deal that she would say such a thing, and it disturbed her a great deal that I was disturbed (she wasn’t angry, she was just nonplussed: it just didn’t seem like such a big deal).
So, yeah, there was and is anti-semitism in British and the US, though in both places it is kept fairly quiet. But damn it, you are not an anti-semite just because you don’t approve of some of Israel’s policies. You are not an anti-semite if you think that Dr. Gee has lost the plot. Disagreeing with a Jew about something does not make you an anti-semite.
Given the Holocaust, I understand why Jews are more sensitive to any hint of anti-semitism, as opposed any other form of racism, and it is undoubtedly the responsibility of everyone to make sure that it stays socially unacceptable long enough to die out completely.
And yes, it will eventually. In the last decades of the 19th century and the first decades of the 20th one was chillingly polite to one’s neighbors if they were Methodists and you were Baptist. One certainly didn’t socialize with them. And if they were Catholic, you weren’t even polite. That is no longer true. Things do get better. (Okay, I’m a soppy old optimist. So sue me.)
Well, my last name is Wiener, my wife’s last is Wood.
We were going to hyphenate, but:
Wiener-Wood
and
Wood-Wiener
Just didn’t do very well in mixed company. She gave up she’s still Wood.
‘Night, Kg!
***
qbsmd,
http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/01/should_just_anyone_be_allowed_1.php#comment-2248333
***
Just wanted to quote this. :) Thanks, Josh.
I can understand that too. What I cannot understand- and what I will not countenance – is Henry Gee’s disgusting, outrageous accusations of anti-semitism against commenters at Pharyngula. For fuck’s sake, he brought up his ancestors being rendered into “soap and lampshades,” clearly referring to commenters on this blog.
It was cheap, dishonest, and disgusting. He deserved every bit of condemnation he got, and a whole lot more.
Anyone carrying a chip that big on their shoulder demonstrates their mind has been taken over by an inappropriate obsession that prevents them from rationally discriminating between who their real enemies are, and who they’re simply fantasizing are their enemies.
Dr. Myers –
Have you at least tried a decent Irish whiskey while on the Green Isle? Neat, of course, but if you must, no more than one ice cube.
I couldn’t afford the Midleton’s when I was there in ’03, but the Red Breast was very tasty. As was Bushmill’s Black.
The beer is good, but the whiskey is sublime.
Warning: This comment contains a link to TVTropes. I take no responsibility for any wasted time that may result.
I can’t bring myself to comment on the video except to say that pretty much any popular portrayal of evolution is going to get it wrong (our ancestors apparently include flying squirrels, icthyosaurs, birds, and pachycephalosaurs… who know?). < - (That's the link I mentioned.) However, what's really cool, even a little subversive, about the ad is the music it's using. The song "The Rhythm of Life" is from the musical Sweet Charity, which I once saw in a university production; I think the song and associated act is the one great thing about that otherwise uninteresting show (although that might have been the fault of the production I saw).
Here is the song in the film of the show (another warning: the video is 8 minutes long). While this probably wasn’t the official intention of the musical’s writers, I think the piece is a nice parody-verging-on-satire of religion in general. In particular, I find the bit at the end akin to Christianity’s frequent hypocrisy on “sexual morality”.
Uncle Leo?
It seems that he leapt on the first opportunity to play that particular card – i.e. responding to my comment about him disliking Dawkins because Dawkins wasn’t playing by old-school English club rules; since he was Jewish and a recent immigrant he couldn’t possibly behave in that way.
After that he tried to use it to undermine and deflect any and all criticisms levelled at him before eventually descending into ‘all atheists are just Nazis waiting for an opportunity and I predict they will soon stop waiting and just start incinerating’ lunacy.
I felt (and wrote) that this was not only insulting to us, but also to the memories the people who had died as a result of genuine antisemitism.
I’m so pressed for time I must do a drive-by comment.
This pharynulite frequently fears for PZ health and is soooo pleased he is “relaxing”. I also offer to help him relax when at the Melbourne conference. Callously refused a ticket when I finally managed to raise the cash (sold out). I guess I will have to just spend it all loitering at local pubs.
I will be there, even if I can’t attend sessions. Can’t wait to meet up with Kel, Bride et al.
fwiw, I’m in Bangalore India working 12hr days for the next 3 weeks. I’ll try to get back to this thread if I get a spare moment tonight.
Wow @8 – What!? You aren’t a true Bagger, well, I won’t be twirling about you so prettily anymore. I thought you were going to inherit Baggend. *snort*
What I object to out of all this is that it is somehow justified even if false because of just how bad it was. Whether the fear is real is irrelevant, it’s being used to tarnish the opposition. It would be like bringing up 9/11 as a counter argument to, well, anything. It’s arguing a non-sequitur, one that’s a slippery slope and poisoning the well.
There should be no justification for those who make such arguments. They’ve said something horrible and wrong, and even if it was out of a genuine fear it is still horrible and wrong.
Save some Guinness for the first year anniversary of the thread. It’s on Feb. 24. The thread that day needs to contain the original Science of Watchmen YouTube video.
Note: Don’t listen to those blasphemers who say that the Eternal Thread started with Titanoboa. It didn’t, and I’m not just saying that because I was busy when that discussion was there and barely participated in it.
Some years ago I chewed out a Jew for gross stupidity and was accused of anti-semitism. I confused the man by saying: “That’s the most messhuggeneh thing I’ve heard in a long time.”
@Wowbagger:
I noticed that you wrote that, and you were right. It’s morally cheap (and that’s being kind) to pull a stunt like that.
@Kel
Yes, just so.
Walton | February 4, 2010 7:25 PM:
I agree entirely. Moreover – it is worth noting that in a few professions, such law, politics, and science, a woman is known largely by her last name. Changing her name part way through her career can mean her peers are less likely to be aware of work she did before marriage.
SC – I read part of the crap that Laden & his yap dog wrote. Pretty much John Morales and the others said all I would have. He was an idiot and made something out of nothing. IMHO.
On a lighter note, aren’t you the first of the Ilk to be banned over there? SC, OM, Banned – looks pretty sweet.
Sadly, Ingunt Slut o’Ours, Laden is claiming SC isn’t really banned; she just decided to take a breather. We’ll have to campaign vigorously for a proper bannination.
Actually we can’t tell if SC, OM is banned or not. Laden doesn’t have a dungeon. He apparently thinks that everyone believes he was just joking when he told SC to go away until she can be rational (or whatever his rationale was).
Walton – Would you feel the same about the name change if you married a man?
Sigh. Ignunt. Ignunt. Damn you, Chardonnay!
Good point. Given his coy, opaque writing style (not to mention sloppy spelling, etc.) it’s impossible to know.
The thing that makes it very difficult is that Gee is a child of Holocaust survivors. There are all sorts of psychological effects associated with this, and paranoia is one of them. Sometimes I fear he really is that paranoid. But other elements point to a deliberate use of this – the selectivity of focus following political lines; the refusal to acknowledge real, dangerous antisemitism amongst religious people; and especially the fact that it seems like a set rhetorical bit that emerges especially if anyone even suggests that he might in some sense be part of a privileged class or not appreciative of the marginalization of others. So I don’t know what to think, and it may be a combination. It’s impossible to have an argument with someone who does this, though, and the rules he himself endorses don’t permit it. In any case, I’m so bothered by other aspects of his behavior and things he’s said recently that it’s not the only issue.
Ugh! I had to click on the Coulter link in the related videos
(which I had already seen – why oh why did I do that?).
Great, what’s he going to do next – ask her to buy him a camera to make up for it and then claim that was just a joke we should have realised was such?
Josh said
Though it might get you some brand shiny new enemies.
Kel said:
You both have a point. In situations like this I often find myself vacillating between feeling a little sorry for someone who obviously has some issues, and thinking he’s just a fucking bully.
But for me, I can’t get past the effrontery of it. Damn it, those people really were slaughtered and taking that fact and using it to try to win a stupid fucking argument on a blog for fuck’s sake is about the lowest thing there is.
To quote one of Alan B’s favo(u)rite diarists: “And so to bed.”
You summed it up there, SC. There’s nothing more to say. Trying to talk to someone like Gee is rubbish.
I’m a fag with a long history of enduring homophobia, and the occasional violent abuse that comes from it. But I don’t accuse my straight/bi/trans allies of being latent fag-bashers the minute they don’t agree with me, or if they don’t pay my Personal Oppression proper obeisance.
Henry Gee needs to grow the fuck up. For an editor of the world’s most prestigious scientific journal, he’s embarrassingly toddler-like.
Why the sniveling bollocks-less weenie! He should ban her or be damned. Sounds like a typical christian coward.
Ignunt…Chardonnay…dammit, I’m drinking Sangria mixed with Blood Oranges & Limes, must be missing something. On the other hand the smell of portobellos, shallots and bacon frying in butter is distracting…
Doesn’t matter. Titanoboa will suffocate your Watchmen and swallow them whole.
You bewitcher. You bedeviler. You wicked, culinary seductress. Your siren smell vexes me. . . .
It’s left-over pot roast for me. Sigh.
I just saw a quote in the random quote box by Michael Lucas. Is that the director or activist?
It would be like bringing up 9/11 as a counter argument to, well, anything. It’s arguing a non-sequitur, one that’s a slippery slope and poisoning the well.
http://www.idkwtf.com/videos/latest-videos/family-guy-lois-speech-on-9-11
9.
11.
:P
Gyeong, what is this “Lao Daung Duen” nonsense? You are The Pickachu of Anthropology, damn it. I demand an explanation.
Maybe that’s because you have actually suffered from the oppression yourself?
I can’t get that song out of my head.
I’d rather think it’s because I understand the difference between people who mean me and others harm, and people who don’t. Henry Gee doesn’t seem to have figured that out. Or, if he has, he’s willing to overlook it so he can make the most galling insults against people of good will. Either way, it’s time for him to be a Big Kid Now.
Josh – The punishment for witchcraft is death, pretty much the same as for homosexuality, and both crimes are used by the religious to further their own ends and pocket books. The sad thing is that it is still going on.
Here’s the thread that put me off Greg Laden. Feel free to tl;dr:
Video of our nearest living relatives having sex
Posted on: March 21, 2009 11:08 PM, by Greg Laden
Below the fold, of course.
Comments
1
I feel violated.
Posted by: foolfodder | March 22, 2009 4:56 AM
2
I was afraid it was going to be my parents..
Posted by: James Brennan | March 22, 2009 10:35 AM
3
I missed the sex part. All I saw was a stinkhorn expanding. (not growing) Mushroom ‘sex’, if that is what it is, occurs in the mycelial stage. A mushroom is only a fruiting body, analogous to an apple.
Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD | March 23, 2009 11:05 PM
4
The fungal pedants have arrived to ruin it for everyone.
Posted by: Greg Laden | March 23, 2009 11:09 PM
5
Isn’t this stolen from “Planet Earth?”
Posted by: Alastair Frothergill | March 24, 2009 3:13 PM
6
Not stolen … just click back to YouTube and get the credits … but yes, it is from Planet Earth.
Posted by: Greg Laden | March 24, 2009 3:14 PM
7
LOL, I didn’t realize I had such power.
For a scientist, you seem adverse to information.
Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD, Fungal Pedant | March 25, 2009 6:40 AM
8
For a commenter visiting someone’s blog you seem like kind of an asshole. Are you really a Friend of Charles Darwin Troll????
Explain yourself.
Posted by: Greg Laden | March 25, 2009 9:04 AM
9
Woaaaah apply the brakes, and check the rear and side-view mirrors. When people start bickering like this on most YouTube comments (“jessica alba is not hot you f*****g f*g you must be a f*g” “no you cuz you think carmen electra is hoter go back to you boyfriend sh*t”, etc etc) I chalked it up to lay people being, well, dumb.
Clearly scientists can’t resist a good anonymous round of rhetorical bickering, either.
Oh, and I had the same problem with the video as you, Blind Sqirrel (though I still liked watching it). ;)
Posted by: VInce Noir | March 25, 2009 2:58 PM
10
My original comment was a simple, nonthreatening statement that there was no sex in the video. This has been seconded by a subsequent commenter. I am unable to comprehend the rancor of your replies.
The fungal pedants have arrived to ruin it for everyone.
That statement is grandiose. I do not have that power. You can not speak for everyone. That explains this comment
LOL, I didn’t realize I had such power.
Now
For a scientist, you seem adverse to information.
This is low grade sarcasm.(I think you caught that)
For a commenter visiting someone’s blog you seem like kind of an asshole. Are you really a Friend of Charles Darwin Troll????
That sort of remark is entirely uncalled for and cannot help but to reflect on the person making it.
I don’t see how your attitude contributes to an environment where people feel free to contribute information freely to the enrichment of all. This is your goal isn’t it?
Oh,and I enjoyed the video.
Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD, Fungal Pedant | March 25, 2009 3:46 PM
11
I think we have to ask the fungi that they think. Why do you insist, blind squirrel, that your heteronormative metazoan standards be applied to all organisms?
uncalled for and cannot help but to reflect on the person making it.
Right out of the Dictionary for Trolls.
No matter what, it is a great video.
Posted by: Greg Laden | March 25, 2009 3:51 PM
12
I think we have to ask the fungi that they think. Why do you insist, blind squirrel, that your heteronormative metazoan standards be applied to all organisms?
Meaningless word salad. Now you are just laying smoke.
Right out of the Dictionary for Trolls.
It may be in the dictionary, but it is still accurate.
No matter what, it is a great video.
Greg, I like the video. All the posters here like the video. Gosh, we all think that it is the bestest video that was ever made.
Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD, Fungal Pedant | March 25, 2009 4:41 PM
13
It really is a good video.
Posted by: Greg Laden | March 25, 2009 7:55 PM
14
Admit it Greg, you only posted that so I would drop by and say hi.
Hi
Blind squirrel: I think you are conflating meiosis with sex. While meiosis, more specifically meiotic recombination may be the a hallmark of sex it is not in and of itself sex. The sperm I am currently making have undergone recombination, but alas I aint getting any. I am also aware of post-menopausal women who have significant amounts of sex, or does that not count?
Posted by: Lorax | March 26, 2009 4:08 PM
15
Blind squirrel: I think you are conflating meiosis with sex.
No I’m not. How did you miss the scare quotes and the conditional clause? Here, I’ll show you:
Mushroom ‘sex’, if that is what it is
Did you see any sex of any sort in the video? That was the point of my innocuous comment.
What did you think of Greg’s reaction to my comment?
BTW, I’m not getting any either.
Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD, Fungal Pedant | March 26, 2009 10:30 PM
16
Blind:
Hold on one second there, friend…
Just so you know what you are arguing about (and you are the only one arguing): You said “For a scientist, you seem adverse to information.” and I see that as trollish sentimentality. Concern troll, I believe, though I may have the taxonomy wrong. Thus, the slap up side the head. The pedant comment was simple healthy fungal humor.
OK, you may continue now.
Posted by: Greg Laden | March 26, 2009 10:39 PM
17
If that was an attempt at humor, It missed me. I think it was the part about ruining it for everyone. It didn’t sound very funny at the time, and it still doesn’t. It sounds like someone ridiculing a person for being intelligent because they have been called on a mistake.
Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD, Fungal Pedant | March 27, 2009 12:29 AM
18
No, it was definitely funny.
Posted by: Greg Laden | March 27, 2009 12:41 AM
19
Greg Laden = Fun Guy.
there. had to be said.
Posted by: DDeden | March 27, 2009 6:23 PM
Notice how he becomes more incoherent as the evening progresses. Now I’m not saying he has a drinking problem and I don’t believe he has a drinking problem, but you can see from this pattern how someone might interpret this as a drinking problem.
BS
Sigh. Too true. Tell you what: let’s at least put on a grand feast and eat our faces off. Bring that delicious buttery concoction over yonder, and I’ll contribute some of my homemade tortillas.
Blind Squirrel, that is a little tl;dr. I’m sure it’s worthy, but maybe condense it a ‘lil?
Love, SpokesGay
What’s the point of all this, again?
@Gyeong:
What song, my little pocket monster?
Josh – Oh dear, it’s only going to get worse for you my fungus favoring friend. I live in the land of morrells, golden chanterelle, and shaggy-manes.
Home grown eggs, and butter!
(Sorry…I got carried away.)
We had planned-over “ground hog” tonight. The Redhead, who tries to celebrate as many holidays as possible, makes a sausage/hamburger meatloaf shaped like a certain prophetic underground mammal for groundhog day. Throw some potatoes and squash in the oven at the same time…
Why, this song
Oh la noi. . . duang duen uey.
Where in the world do you think that’s possible?
***
:)
You, you. . . destructrix of culinary and erotic barriers! I am a slave to your sautee pan. May those luscious fungi waft their fragrance over me, may your dark vegetables. . .
(sound of needle ripping across record)
WTF? Girl, let’s just trade recipes. Ima . .ima, just put my kitchen back in order now. .
LOL
Where in the world do you think that’s possible?
Er, sorry! I read “haven’t” where you wrote “have.”
Eh, Laden’s blog wasn’t one I went to all that often anyway; ignoring him completely for his asshat behaviour isn’t going to make much difference to my life – but I’ll do it out of principle.
@Gyeong:
Oh, that’s very pretty. It sounds like a blend of Western and Eastern musical styles. Do you have any more information? I’d be interested in knowing what tonal scale they’re using, and what style this represents.
Josh – Yeah, I know. The smell of that wild stuff… nothing like it.
Mmmm Beer
I’m no expert at music, but I think the original of the song would be close to this.
Cool, thanks, Gyeong.
And now, off to bed for SpokesGay, too.
Forgive me if someone has mentioned this on another thread, but that woman (Laura Silsby) who headed that group of arrested missionaries in Haiti has quite a checkered past in Idaho, at least according to this web report:
http://www.idahostatesman.com/273/story/1067267.html
Ok cleaned up a bit. GL’s comments in bold; feel free to skip this. It’s only slightly OT.
Video of our nearest living relatives having sex
Posted on: March 21, 2009 11:08 PM, by Greg Laden
Comments
1
I missed the sex part. All I saw was a stinkhorn expanding. (not growing) Mushroom ‘sex’, if that is what it is, occurs in the mycelial stage. A mushroom is only a fruiting body, analogous to an apple.
Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD | March 23, 2009 11:05 PM
4
The fungal pedants have arrived to ruin it for everyone.
Posted by: Greg Laden | March 23, 2009 11:09 PM
LOL, I didn’t realize I had such power.
For a scientist, you seem adverse to information.
Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD, Fungal Pedant | March 25, 2009 6:40 AM
8
For a commenter visiting someone’s blog you seem like kind of an asshole. Are you really a Friend of Charles Darwin Troll????
Explain yourself.
Posted by: Greg Laden | March 25, 2009 9:04 AM
9
Woaaaah apply the brakes, and check the rear and side-view mirrors. When people start bickering like this on most YouTube comments (“jessica alba is not hot you f*****g f*g you must be a f*g” “no you cuz you think carmen electra is hoter go back to you boyfriend sh*t”, etc etc) I chalked it up to lay people being, well, dumb.
Clearly scientists can’t resist a good anonymous round of rhetorical bickering, either.
Oh, and I had the same problem with the video as you, Blind Sqirrel (though I still liked watching it). ;)
Posted by: VInce Noir | March 25, 2009 2:58 PM
10
My original comment was a simple, nonthreatening statement that there was no sex in the video. This has been seconded by a subsequent commenter. I am unable to comprehend the rancor of your replies.
That statement is grandiose. I do not have that power. You can not speak for everyone. That explains this comment
Now
This is low grade sarcasm.(I think you caught that)
That sort of remark is entirely uncalled for and cannot help but to reflect on the person making it.
I don’t see how your attitude contributes to an environment where people feel free to contribute information freely to the enrichment of all. This is your goal isn’t it?
Oh,and I enjoyed the video.
Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD, Fungal Pedant | March 25, 2009 3:46 PM
11
I think we have to ask the fungi that they think. Why do you insist, blind squirrel, that your heteronormative metazoan standards be applied to all organisms?
Right out of the Dictionary for Trolls.
No matter what, it is a great video.
Posted by: Greg Laden | March 25, 2009 3:51 PM
12
Meaningless word salad. Now you are just laying smoke.
It may be in the dictionary, but it is still accurate.
Greg, I like the video. All the posters here like the video. Gosh, we all think that it is the bestest video that was ever made.
Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD, Fungal Pedant | March 25, 2009 4:41 PM
13
It really is a good video.
Posted by: Greg Laden | March 25, 2009 7:55 PM
Blind squirrel: I think you are conflating meiosis with sex. While meiosis, more specifically meiotic recombination may be the a hallmark of sex it is not in and of itself sex. The sperm I am currently making have undergone recombination, but alas I aint getting any. I am also aware of post-menopausal women who have significant amounts of sex, or does that not count?
Posted by: Lorax | March 26, 2009 4:08 PM
15
No I’m not. How did you miss the scare quotes and the conditional clause? Here, I’ll show you:
Did you see any sex of any sort in the video? That was the point of my innocuous comment.
What did you think of Greg’s reaction to my comment?
BTW, I’m not getting any either.
Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD, Fungal Pedant | March 26, 2009 10:30 PM
16
Blind:
Hold on one second there, friend…
Just so you know what you are arguing about (and you are the only one arguing): You said “For a scientist, you seem adverse to information.” and I see that as trollish sentimentality. Concern troll, I believe, though I may have the taxonomy wrong. Thus, the slap up side the head. The pedant comment was simple healthy fungal humor.
OK, you may continue now.
Posted by: Greg Laden | March 26, 2009 10:39 PM
17
If that was an attempt at humor, It missed me. I think it was the part about ruining it for everyone. It didn’t sound very funny at the time, and it still doesn’t. It sounds like someone ridiculing a person for being intelligent because they have been called on a mistake.
Posted by: Blind Squirrel FCD, Fungal Pedant | March 27, 2009 12:29 AM
18
No, it was definitely funny.
Posted by: Greg Laden | March 27, 2009 12:41 AM
19
Notice how he becomes more incoherent as the evening progresses. Now I’m not saying he has a drinking problem and I don’t believe he has a drinking problem, but you can see from this pattern how someone might interpret this as a drinking problem.
BS
Also Hericium,Ceps, Entoloma abortivum, Oyster pleurotus, Amanita marasmius and about 50 other species that I have eaten.
BS
how… weird. as far as I can tell, GL tried to turn that into a conversation of “what is sex, anyway?”, but in such an oblique and insulting way (calling you a troll? claiming that your “insistence” on sex having something to do with reproduction, or at least reproductive organs, is kinda like what the anti-gay and anti-contraception fundies do when they whine that sex is supposed to be for babymaking only? wtf?), that it completely ruins any potential the conversation might have had. and it has nothing to do with mushrooms, either.
Jadehawk: It left a bad taste in my mouth and I haven’t felt like commenting since. I didn’t realize he was having the same affect on others.
BS
Blind Squirrel – Dammit, now I’m going to have to look those up in my Audubon Field Guide. I only know the hillbilly or vulgar names.
We also have those sillysybin ;) little mushrooms that grow on cow poo. Good ol’ Oregon just full of fungus.
Hehehe. That’s a great name.
We have had some dry summers the last few years. I conduct mushroom classes and one recent year the lawns were actually dormant from drought.
I would love to foray in Oregon again.
BTW there is supposed to be a comma between Amanita and marasmius. Also, on a good day, I know the difference between affect and effect.
BS
BS – One of my brothers is heavily steeped in forest and field fungi, the other one is into greenery. My kin folks that live in Tillamook work at dairies and on crab boats, I damn near got the state covered. A comma here or there wouldn’t keep you from some nice specimens.
Alan B from previous thread,
Sorry 386sx, I don’t understand the point you are making here.
That’s okay I don’t understand it either. I think I was probably confusing myself because dude asked Jesus a question, and then Jesus preceded to not answer the question, albeit with plenty of flourish. I was expecting him to actually answer the damn question. (I should know better by now.)
He would have mixed with Pharynguloids. I’ll bet the conversation with PZ would have been fascinating to listen to.
Yeah, in between Jesus damning everyone to hell who doesn’t pay attention, and Jesus never answering any damn questions, it would be fascinating, I’m sure.
preceded = proceeded
Idiot, sweet baby jezus would have nothing to do with defamers, liers (christians), harlots, gluttons, whores, sluts, abusers of men with each other, lesbians, foul mouths…
oh do I need to go on?
Jezus wouldn’t have mixed with us in a hot minute.
I volunteer to teach the stupid Bastard why not.
Alan B, I do find it funny that Jesus skated around the answer in order to trip up the dude who was looking for loopholes. And lo and behold, I was looking for loopholes and it tripped me up too! Just thought that was funny. The irony is not lost on me.
Giving credit where credit is due,
386
Cheers.
Idiot is directed at the person that started the jezus bullshit.
And on the subject of idiots *snort* how come Heddle the idiot is released from the dungeon when he is an asshat Calvinist, but Piltdownman, the crazy Catholic is still banned? He isn’t any more a stoopid ass fool than Heddle.
/end of that shit.
Patricia, OM, Jezus wouldn’t have mixed with us in a hot minute.
Yeah I have to wonder about that one too. Jesus did have some choice words for the “scribes and Pharisees”, as I recall. That and he did a lot of damning of people who didn’t pay attention to his “message”.
That’s an awesome sentence…:-)
Actually, I can’t, and I don’t think anyone should post something like that about someone they don’t know.That’s poisoning the well right there.There is much to not like and criticise about GL’s blog, but comments like that are inappropriate IMO.
That’s the point, I think — GL used that phrasing, except with ‘drinking’ replaced by ‘anti-semite’ to ‘not’ call SC an anti-semite.
Sorry, I disagree.The drinker equivocation is inappropriate.
Yes, that was a rif on GJ’s comment.
BS
GL’s comment. Sheesh
BS
I don’t see it, but maybe that’s just me….
Better get some Beck’s then huh.
;)
Josh, Official SpokesGay, #79:
I’m not much help as far as placing it within a particular style, but perhaps I can be of some assistance.
As Gyeong Hwa Pak noted, the version of the tune in #74 is a Westernized version of the tune (or variants thereof) in #82. The intervals in the #74 version are more or less equal-temperament. The melody is primarily built on a “black-key” pentatonic scale (that is 02479 with E=0, or EF#ABC#). However, I think it makes plenty of sense just to call it “A major”, despite some progressions and harmonies which aren’t entirely diatonic. I’m sure I heard a couple of Ds and G#s in there somewhere, so I’m sticking with A major. Too much info, I’ll bet, but that was actually the easy part.
The video in #82 is an entirely different beast. Yes, the melodies and such are almost identical. However, the tunings of the instruments and voices (including all the slides and embellishments) are incredibly unique, by which I don’t just mean interesting or exotic but sui generis. Each has a character and tonality of its own, meaning that describing it in terms of the Western major/minor system isn’t even close to what you’re actually hearing. It’s helpful for making some broad comparisons, but is only useful up to a certain level of detail.
Ben in Texas said:
Thank you,Ben. I hadn’t heard any of these other allegations/charges even though I live in Boise. I tend to be fairly hyperopic and don’t closely follow local news media outlets, mostly because they are full of ideological crap. Ms. Silsby doesn’t seem quite the saint her church presents her to be.
Whoops, bad bad typo: the pitch-class set is [02479] with A=0…
point being, GL used precisely that wording to accuse SC of being anti-semitic, while denying he was doing so. this is just turning the tables on him in his own words.
Patricia:
Heddle has been released?! Why aren’t there flashing red warning signs all over the intertubes? This most certainly is not the will of a benevolent fucking deity. What’s more, it’s just kind of sad. Heddle and Pilty deserve each other. Down in the dungeon, they could bask in each other’s holiness (sp.? holeyness?), while at the same time suffer the unending torment that is not trolling this blog. Surely it was best for everyone that way.
Well, to something completely different, Aussies have high work standards and take their job extremely seriously, even a live broadcast will not distract them from their task :
And now to finance news…..
;)
But there is hope for the gentleman :
Banker gains web support
Looking forward to it, though Sunday may be Devy Metal night for me. So there better be a Friday piss-up…
Guinness: It’s like God pissing on my tongue!
Er….it’s like what God’s piss would taste like if God existed. Er…that is if God existed and, you know, excreted…and would let me, someone who doesn’t believe in him, drink it…er, seems unlikely on the face of it…er…so…
Guiness: Yum!
On the topic of beer, I’d really like to try proper Guinness one day.
Heddle has never been banned here.
IMO there is a world of difference between the odious Piltdown Clown and Heddle. Heddle has some strange ideas, but he’s smart, sometimes funny, and he does not proselytize, not here anyway. He’ll argue all day long (and pretty well) about some stuff, but he’s always lightyears more interesting than Piltdown ever was.
I hope you are not suggesting that either of then deserve the banhammer solely for their religious beliefs. That is not how it works.
Re: heddle – what Sven said.
However, I’d extend that to Piltdown; as odious as he was I still found reading his crackpot rationlisations to be at the very least educational regarding the child-rapist-enablers’ tapdance/handwaving routines.
He tried to engage, which is more than I can say for most of the other dungeon residents like creepy Alan Clarke, Lion IRC, facilis and Silver ‘Athena is my homegirl’ Fox.
I’d like to see that pissant ‘professor’ dendy sent there if he keeps coming back.
Well and truly enough material for a new round (or 2) of Survivor methinks, if the CO ever gets around to it, what with his busy travel schedule and all…:-)
By the way Aussies, around this time in 5 weeks from now we should be sitting in the Young&Jackson pleasantly inebriated with an exciting convention about to start, including the CO!! (or so I hear from the organising committee)
Hahahahahahahahaha
(Ah, well, Rorschach’s distracted – busy boning up on Canada’s History.
;P)
If that’s a pun, you know I suck at them ! If no, I don’t get it….
And I dont do boning up anymore, only gets you into trouble..:-(
Excellent. I’m going to be slightly frazzled as it’s going to follow three weeks of Fringesanity (the specific insanity of the Adelaide Fringe festival) during which I’m reviewing 17 shows and hoping to see as many more on my own time…
Oh, sure, you don’t. You’re the resident expert.
KelOm #112 There were several posts on an earlier Guinness thread about the differences in taste around the world. As I remember it the three main factors were alcohol content, cleanliness of equipment and differing varieties of Guinness.
Irish Guinness has a lower alcohol content than the North American product and tastes smoother because of it.
If the bar serving it doesn’t clean their taps and lines often and well the Guinness will taste sour.
Different products taste different, self explanatory.
My completely unscientific examination of the subject, a trip from Canada to the UK and then to Ireland culminating in a trip to the Guinness factory, did show me a difference. As we got closer to the factory the Guinness tasted better. But environment has so much to do with perceived enjoyment I can’t say how much of it was in my head.
The two best pints we had were in the room at the top of the factory overlooking Dublin. It was on our last day, indeed just hours before our flight out of Ireland. No observer bias there. :) The other was in a 450 year old pub in Ballyshannon. The place just oozed history, real history, not some disneyfied sort of thing for the tourists. There were plenty of locals there and some were still upset about how their 7 arch stone bridge had been taken out to make way for a hydro dam, in the 1930’s! The bartender also made a big deal about how it was poured. We were chatting to him about it and he asked who had poured the ones we were drinking. He was a little contemptuous of the fellow we indicated and poured us another, “Proper like.” I will swear to the fact that I thought it tasted better, smoother and perhaps creamier. I will not swear that his methodology did anything other than heighten my anticipation.
Blah, blah, blah…anyway I highly suggest you do your own testing, it was the most fun non-science I’ve ever done.
There was a report about that on the ABC the other day, I should really try and come over for a weekend or so !
I like this one :
The Rap Guide to Evolution
I’ve only ever had it in Finland. Would try it here, but I’ve heard from several that it’s absolute shite here to the point that the authorities in Dublin have been informed.
Yep, it’s on the list of hopefuls. Whether I get to it or not is another thing.
Yeah the Guinness here is bad, but the Kilkenny is ok-ish, if you can afford to fork out the 75 bucks for a slab of the stuff, or are lucky enough that your local Irish pub has it on tap.
Sven, #113:
Sorry, I am corrected. I thought Heddle was banned a few months ago. I remember a thread where PZ told him not to comment anymore and hadn’t noticed him since.
I was not suggesting we ban people solely for their religious beliefs.
Anyway, if he were, it would’ve been well-deserved if you ask me. Yes, Pilty is much worse, and he’s not even remotely interesting. (I should say that I also don’t think we should ban people based solely on how interesting they are.) Yes, Heddle can be intelligent and have a sense of humor. He’s also written some stupid, twisted, evil shit that I don’t take very lightly.
Personally, I don’t care a whole lot if he or anyone else is banned. There will always be other trolls to stomp or ignore; and if I really felt it necessary, I could use a killfile.
Yeah, I’ve had Kilkenny on tap at one of the local Irish pubs. Though that place has Coopers Pale Ale on tap so when I’m there I just drink that.
I remain a loyal Queenslander for a few things; beer, however, is not one of them – XXXX is possibly the vilest abomination ever brewed and passed off as beer. Cooper’s Pale is my choice for tap beer – though I prefer James Boag’s when I’m drinking the bottled stuff.
My choice of tap beer is James Squire Amber Ale, then James Squire Golden Ale.
See this is just weird.
My clearly superior european beer palate does not mind XXXX at all, when I lived in Brisbane I used to drink nothing else, Boags gives me indigestion and gas, and the usual aussie beers give me headaches in the quantities I drink…:-) Cooper’s pale ale I really have to try one day soon though.
Not sure if anybody’s mentioned it yet, but Latinos usually keep the wife’s last name, and then add “de [husband’s last name]”, “de” means “of”. So yeah, it’s pretty worse than just taking the husband’s last name.
Kids though go with both the dad’s last name (first) and the mom’s last name (second). Which is better than just keeping the dad’s last name, and you end up with two last names, and less chance of getting in one of those no-fly lists because you are a “terrorist”‘s namesake.
For me, the chance of that happening is zero. I got a first and middle Spanish names, and two Japanese last names.
Interesting. I know there are a lot of Brazilians with a Japanese heritage so that there is a significant population of Portguese/Japanese names, but I don’t remember hearing of a Spanish/Japanese one before.
Blatz…
Don’t like Boags or XXXX. I’m in the Alpine Shire of Victoria and The Bridge Road Brewery of Beechworth makes a really fine brew (Celtic Red) that’s available on tap in my local.
Mind you, I like VB so what do I know? Though, in my defense I’m a Canadian ex-pat and the stuff tastes different enough from all my usual Canadian quaffs to be interesting.
As much as I love being from NSW, Toohey’s New is just fetid swill. If I were to give XXXX 1/10, then I’d have to give New 0.
Uhm, yeah….
I can pretty much guarantee you that when they came up with the recipe for XXXX the furthest thing from their minds would have been ‘superior european beer palates’ – for starters they’d have wondered what you’d be mixing your beer with paint…
If any of you ever get to Canberra, a trip to the Wig & Pen is a must!
And if any of you are coming up to Sydney for TAM in November, then there is the James Squire Brewhouse that must be attended.
I find Coopers Sparkling Ale nicer than Pale Ale. It’s got sediment in the bottle, so I like to keep it in the refrigerator for a day or two until it’s well-settled, then carefully decant it into a glass (leaving the dregs in the bottle).
Do it right, and you get a clear, tasty and refreshing brew. Warning — it’s fairly alcoholic.
All good fun, I dont usually drink the mainstream beers here, either stick to imported ones or maybe the odd case of Crown if it’s on special….But yeah, VB, New or Draught I can straight away identify as chemical concoctions of the vilest kind, while XXXX passes the headache test…:-)
I am guilty of not trying some of the ales here or the smaller brewery beers, maybe I should do that more, you guys feel free to show me the light !!
Peru and Argentina do too. So if you hear a Spanish first name and Japanese last name (or Chinese and, more rarely, Korean), it’s an almost certainty that they’re Peruvian or Argentinian.
I have honestly never found a beer I enjoyed; I find beer in general virtually undrinkable, and it invariably makes me feel ill. I prefer to drink red wine, port, or gin and tonic.
I used to be like that, took me until I was about 22 or 23 to actually start drinking beer.
15, haven’t looked back since.
;)
There’s plenty of good ones. Start with James Squire, then move on to Little Creatures then Matilda Bay. Those should be available pretty much anywhere and there are enough good beers in there.
I do too actually, but buggered if I can find anywhere here I can get that on tap.
@Walton: on a hot day, a lager shandy has much to recommend it.
I seem to remember drinking Matilda Bay in Perth, but that was a smooth dark ale IIRC, I wrote philosophical tractates onto the back of [what do you call the cardboard thingies you place your beerglass on] back then while listening to live music in the summer heat….
Nowadays I treat my diaries from when I was younger like nuclear waste, they can never see the light of day ever again…:-)
Oh Jebus, how can any of you drink VB or Fourex? Toohey’s New is just as bad.
I have Carlton Draught or Melbourne Bitter (both are lagers) for everyday drinking, but I if I really want to splurge I’ll have some Czech or Polish stuff, or some Becks, Carlsberg or Stella (which is known in Britain as “The Wifebeater”).
Tooheys being a Sydney beer (not to mention absolute chemical pig’s piss), it’s never been popular in Melbourne – most pubs won’t even have it on tap.
Some genius at Tooheys got the idea of buying up pubs all over Melbourne just to rip out the Carlton taps and put Tooheys taps in. I don’t know how well that’s worked because I’ve noticed some Tooheys taps disappearing and Carlton ones coming back.
I recently came across the Guinness “250” edition. meh. pretty thin gruel
Too bad about Beamish :(
The thing that makes it very difficult is that Gee is a child of Holocaust survivors. There are all sorts of psychological effects associated with this, and paranoia is one of them. – SC,OM
This is true, and maybe I’m being too harsh in thinking Gee knows at some level that his claims are nonsense, but as SC says, it makes little or no difference to whether it’s possible to have a rational argument with him.
Such second-generation effects actually led to the break-up of my relationship with the daughter of Jews who fled the holocaust – I lacked the psychological qualities necessary to give her the level of support she needed, and eventually bailed out. We are still in touch, and both made subsequent happy marriages (in her case, obviously, the happiness is only AFAIK, but it’s certainly lasted), so it was the right decision, but the hardest I’ve ever made.
Argh…
COULTER: …New York City during the Republican National Convention. In fact, that’s what I think heaven is going to look like.
_ _ _
COULTER: You walk past a mixed-race couple in New York, and it’s like they have a chip on their shoulder. They’re just waiting for somebody to say something, as if anybody would. And —
DEUTSCH: I don’t agree with that. I don’t agree with that at all. Maybe you have the chip looking at them. I see a lot of interracial couples, and I don’t see any more or less chips there either way. That’s erroneous.
COULTER: No. In fact, there was an entire Seinfeld episode about Elaine and her boyfriend dating because they wanted to be a mixed-race couple, so you’re lying.
**headdesk**
Is it just me, or are the endless threads filling up faster than usual?
The Coulter thing was mentioned.
Obligatory cultural reference
I guess it would be 3rd or even 4th generation now, but in my case most certainly led to me not getting together with awesome jewish chick that would have been a slam dunk married 3 kids eternal love thingie otherwise.
Bill O’Reilly Interviews Jon Stewart (February 3, 2010)
STEWART: You have become in some ways the voice of sanity here [Fox News], which…is like being the thinnest kid at fat camp.
PZ, furniture site spammer using the ID “bobscience” is spamming in old threads.
Like Walton, I don’t get beer. Not for lack of trying, either; many friends who consider themselves connoisseurs have wasted many an excellent beer trying to teach me to drink it. My palate is calibrated for wines, and I have a very expensive palate to satisfy indeed (the only time I drink much is when my boss, a foodie, pulls out the expense account stops). The one beer I ever thought was remotely drinkable was a pale, dry, mildly fizzy Chinese brew that strikes everyone else as a passable imitation of a spumante.
Gee. I’m the daughter, not of Jews who fled the Holocaust, but of a Jewish woman whose entertainer grandparents were underappreciated in Moscow and a crypto-Jewish man who fled the Hungarian revolution in a fine, high-handed impulsive moment prompted largely by the looks of the girls at the airlift station. Still, I can sympathize with the Holocaust-survivor daughter a little bit; my mother’s mother doesn’t trust a soul outside the family, and my father actually got a scared look on his face when I pointed out to him that his family’s customs were mostly Jewish ones. There’s some back-story there I was never told.
Uh, dude, maybe I missed something, but I thought you said she just told you she wasn’t interested in dating someone who wasn’t Jewish.
Couldn’t that be why she wasn’t interested in dating someone who wasn’t Jewish? I’d imagine it might make one slightly dubious about outsiders.
Well, it could be, but there are all sorts of reasons people might want to date within their religious or ethnic group, so that seems like a pretty big assumption. I also didn’t recall Rorschach saying anything about her being the descendent of survivors.
qbsmd,
My comment is at #240 on the thread.
Feyny,
awesome link @ 154, Stewart and O’Reilly are a bit like me and SC I think…:-)
Uhm yeah thanks Wowbagger, I would have thought that was obvious.It is different from KG’s experience I’m sure, because in 2010 its not about support for emotional trauma from the Holocaust anymore, but about social and parental pressures to socialise and date and marry within the group/cult, and it gets rationalised that way too.
WTF? That’s not what we were talking about.
o_O
But who’s going to be O’Reilly in our relationship ?
That’s the question here…:-)
I’ve never – to my knowledge – even met a Jewish woman let alone been romantically involved with one so it’s not something I’ve encountered. As a general rule the relationships I’ve had are with the Australian equivalent of WASPs.
And here I was thinking no one could top what Greg Laden wrote…..
Known in the States as the Belgian Budweiser.
I…wow.
*googles*
because in 2010 its not about support for emotional trauma from the Holocaust anymore, but about social and parental pressures to socialise and date and marry within the group/cult
By no means entirely: as SC said, the children of survivors have often suffered because of their parents’ experiences, and the effects will probably last even unto the third and fourth generation. There are also still quite a number of first-generation survivors, and they can suffer a recrudescence of extreme fear, depression, guilt, etc. in old age.
As for pressure to marry within the community, it’s certainly not very effective in the UK: about half of the Jews who marry at all marry a non-Jew. Only among the ultra-orthodox is marrying out rare.
On a lighter note is this the BBC’s recognition of PZ’s visit to the UK?
This week the octopus was selected as Britain’s brainiest creature. They didn’t even bother including homo sapiens in the line up! (Octopus beat the seal and rook in a totally non-scientific assessment.)
I suspect it was the presenter’s know bias for things marine but who knows?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/theoneshow/highlights/britains_best.shtml?ibroadcast=p0066k7b
Rorschach:
Pardon me, but that’s perhaps only a part of the picture. In my meager knowledge of the Jewish people in academia (stemming primarily from having worked for 6 years in a Jewish institution under a Jewish boss with Jewish colleagues and friends), I have found that even now – even in 2009 – many of them, particularly the older individuals, think of the Holocaust travails as an eternal trauma that needs to be reinforced, at every possible situation, especially from the temples, in order to forge a Jewish identity. Many of them, including my ex-boss, still bring up the Jewish persecution card at the drop of a hat anytime they feel thwarted at something, even academic endeavors, such as getting funding proposals approved.
I must add this disclaimer that almost all of the Jewish individuals that I have known are American Jews, wholly or moderately observant, some of them Modern Orthodox, some Reform, and largely of the Ashkenazi ethnicity. I have known only two individuals who were born and brought up in Israel, and one of them, a postdoc working in an HIV related field, was vehemently opposed to the concept of evolution! (Yes, I am aware of the internal inconsistency of that last sentence, but it is true.)
Well, I have been friends and colleagues with Jewish people from the US, Canada, and Israel my entire life, and I have never seen what you’re talking about.
This, incidentally, was what was read at Passover seder recently:
http://www.narayever.com/socialaction/darfur-pesach.htm
Science News to sip with your coffee: Smart Grid Could Reduce Emissions by 12 Percent Excerpt:
If you want to find Jews while in Melbourne, St Kilda is the place to go. The most amazing pastry shops, brilliant! They are from eastern European backgrounds, mostly. I do have a few Jewish friends and acquaintances, but like most Aussies they don’t make a big point of it.
The problem with a lot of beers in the UK is the dreaded “Brewed under license by…” label. Most Stella (yup, Wifebeater) is actually brewed in the UK. Ditto Kronies, Asahi, yadda yadda.
However, if you look around you should be able to find the genuine stuff. As far as off licence/bottle shops go it’s usually best to go to the corner shop as they often have the genuine stuff shadily imported from the continent! I tend to stick to Polish/Czech beer if taking out.
Oddly enough draft Guinness is now imported in most cases so you get the proper stuff in pubs. It still tastes different to drinking it in Ireland.
The beer that travels the worst IMO is Boddingtons. It tastes OK in Manchester but gets logarithmically worse the further from the brewery it goes.
SC, I don’t disagree with you. What’s that acronym? YMMV (I hope that is the appropriate one). As I said, my meager personal knowledge of the Jews stems primarily from interaction with one group of people (within a restricted area/environment, that of one institution). But what I said isn’t untrue.
And I don’t disagree with that either. Still, many of my (much) younger Jewish friends – especially the non-observant ones – seem to consciously distance themselves from using that tragedy as a means to their identity. They treat it as a historical fact, and move on.
However, this mentality (in the younger ones) is perhaps not very surprising. An analogous (but not certainly equivalent in intensity) situation is that of many of my grandparents’ generation in the Eastern part of India. During the Partition of British India in 1947, many of them had to flee to India from what is now known as Bangladesh, leaving behind their homes, land, possessions, jobs and so forth – thousands of families overnight becoming penniless, homeless, illegal immigrants in a new country with no destination or future. This was a traumatic event to them, and many of them, as well as people of my parents’ generation (who were kids then), still vividly remember events of that time. They spread to different parts of India, and used this traumatic event as a pillar of strength to consolidate their identity and bravely strode out to pick up the tatters of their old lives and make a new one.
However, most people of my generation – that were born in independent India and never had to endure the travails of the Partition – do not feel anything towards it, do not see it as anything but an obscure historical event, and do not give it much thought.
On a lighter note is this the BBC’s recognition of PZ’s visit to the UK?
Ah, so you haven’t cottoned on to the real purpose of PZ’s visit to Ireland yet? Late last night, after long and fraught negotiations, an agreement was reached in northern Ireland between the Democratic Unionist Party (aka the Hate The Gays And Taigs Party), and Sinn Fein (aka the Not Blowing People Up Any More, Honest, Party) which has saved devolved government and the power-sharing agreement! Clearly, what they needed was a visit to Belfast from someone they could agree to loathe!
badgersdaughter –
This is true for me as well… and it is my secret shame. I simply just don’t like beer. I find it bitter and generally objectionable. And I have tried many, many beers, stouts, ales, lagers, etc… just can’t seem to acquire the taste for it.
The shame is that I feel somehow nonplussed at admitting this fact, especially is social environments where consumption of beer is common and in many ways expected.
I of course know this is silly, and that most of the people I choose to associate with would never levy judgment or belittle me for it (outside of doing so in playful jest), but still, I feel somehow irregular when I’m in situations that are conducive to beer drinking. I really want to like it, I just don’t.
I prefer an ice cold glass of Goosewatch Snow Goose (a fine Fingerlakes winery product) or a bottle of green tea.
@Walton and C_E: I don’t really like beer, either. (Of course, I DO live in the US, where, I understand, it should be only used to strip paint according to the rest of the world). I like red wine and gin and bitter lemon. I’ll take gin and tonic as an option only out at restaurants who don’t carry Bitter Lemon (or if we are out at home…a rare occurance).
@Walton: since your “nom-du-comment” is not your name, is it related to Izaak Walton’s “Lives”?
Knockgoats “177:
That had crossed my mind but was keeping quiet. PZ’s role as world
hate figurepeacemaker is meant to be a secret isn’t it?And on a personal note how’s things in the workplace? Two years retired finds me spending too much time on the internet when the hobby degree gets the better of me! Cheers AL
It’s colored by your attitude, as “bring up the Jewish persecution card at the drop of a hat anytime they feel thwarted at something,” with no recognition of antisemitism, certainly suggests. Actually, I’m not saying I’ve heard that but I think it was justified – I’ve simply never heard Jewish people I know doing this.
They shouldn’t. It’s the central event of modern human history, it’s almost unimaginable, and no genocide should ever be treated like this, especially when stuff like this is happening:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/06/dr_who_dr_dawkins.php#comment-957485
[By the way, by linking to the seder thing above, I didn’t mean to imply that any of the religious hooha has any validity, or that I don’t recognize the non-mention of Palestinians or the hypocrisy this implies in many cases. My only point was that for many people it’s about a broader recognition of suffering and oppression. This is what Gee seems to be incapable of when it comes to some other groups.
Gah – I have to go. Will check in later.]
Re the discussions re pro beer, anti beer, pro wine, etc., I, for one, am happy to embrace the wide and wild plurality that comes to us via fermentation and distillation. Beer, wine, fortified wine, the hard stuff drunk straight, the hard stuff in short cocktails, the hard stuff in long cocktails, the hard stuff sold in overpriced and complex liqueurs cut and mixed with sugars and creams and what have you, Aqua Velva mixed with duplicator fluid*, it’s all good, baby. As to what they fermented in the first place, hey, rice, barley, wheat, potatoes… Hell, if I had a local source for fermented goat’s milk, I’d try that too, at least. Me, I’m a booze ecumenist…
Or a substance abuse problem waiting to happen–either way. Anyway…
Yep. I’d say somebody has to tell that asshat that no one here is ever gonna buy anything from there on principle (the principle being: he’s a fucking spamming asshat, and I’d sit on the floor before I’d give his kind one fucking red cent of business), but I figure he’s about as likely actually to read said comment as would be an actual script.
Also figure I should comment re the observation about Jewish folk playing the persecution card: in my personal life, I have never seen this kind of BS, and I do encounter a fair number of said persuasion all over the place. I know the plural of anecdote still isn’t data, and it may just be the nature of my encounters (some work, some play, a lot of music stuff), but for what it’s worth, that’s what I’ve seen, or not seen…
Which is actually what made Gee’s rant all the more bizarre to me. It was like: people actually pull that shit? Really? And that transparently? Fuck. The people I know are apparently vastly more sane, I guess. I had, I guess, also, some third hand previous encounters with the phenomenon mostly in politically charged US-Israel political stuff, mostly at the hands of hack pundits I’d never met and from whom I’d expect no better, and whom I figure no one should take any more seriously than any nutter with an axe to grind–but actually encountering one in a more interactive medium like this was still more than a bit off-putting.
(/*Yes, I’m kidding. Please, don’t anyone improbably innocent of the extremely toxic and lethal realities of wood and mineral alcohols take this as some sort of recommendation or nothin’.)
Schlitz…
Jadehawk, OM from the prior thread incarnation:
And how come no-one ever sees us in the same place at the same time? Hmmmmmmmm???
Tell me you reside in western NY and I’ll really start to wonder. ;^)
Guinness – eh? The only beer that can double as dinner.
I hear ya
I’m a non-discriminating drinker. What’s the best drink out there? The one you have available right then.
No. I’ve never even heard of Izaak Walton.
@187: author of “The compleat angler”. Buried in Winchester Cathedral, which has Jane Austen as well. Drop by and say hi if you’re passing them.
Knockgoats,
yeah, I read it. And Laden’s responses. And BlindSquirrel’s post.
I started reading his blog when he posted the Congo memoirs, which I found very entertaining, despite the fact that his ego seemed to have the mass of a black hole. Since then, I’ve found many of the things he’s said strange, and not nearly well argued enough to be convincing, and often condescending. Maybe it is all meant to be a joke, and he’s outsourced all of his serious blog content to Rachel Maddow.
So, I’m wondering what ‘Tis Himself thinks about moveable ballast and other innovations. Are you following the news about the America’s Cup?
Ugly confession time: I can’t stand alcohol in any form. I can blame any number of factors for this…questionable alcohol dehydrogenase genes, poor opinion of how people behave when drunk, dislike of being out of control…but the truth is I really just can’t stand the taste. The first time I tried beer I thought someone was playing a practical joke and giving me urine…until the guy who provided the beer drank it himself. Other forms of alcohol make me want to take the bottle off to the lab to percipiate some DNA or something.
I don’t really like bacon either. Are these bannable offenses?
Yep.
Also, if I had no standards and simply couldn’t resist any setup line whatsoever*, I’d have to go from that directly to: ‘Actually, come to think of it, I feel pretty much the same about women…’
But I do, and I can, so you didn’t read that here. Honest.
(/*Yes, apparently this is a nested double entendre. And I’m pretty sure it was unintentional, so I don’t feel I should have to apologize. Blame the demon rum.)
You too can decorate your retail business with an inflatable mormon missionary. http://www.annuitech.com/ms/ftp/Jim/UValley_02.jpg Photo features the Missionary Mall, in Orem, Utah. This is the same Missionary Mall that has billboards up in my area, combining the word “mall” with the non-profit designation “.org”, as in missionarymall.org.
Lynna is ZCMI still the “go to” department store for all things mormon? Does the Church own it?
I don’t really like bacon either. Are these bannable offenses?
Not at all. In fact these are quite admirable character traits of which we all should strive for.
Rorschach
By which time “organising committee” shall have got her fat arse in to gear and actually booked the venue.
Any peeps reading this please accept my apologies for late organisation status. I have been working on the Pharyngulite mass-intro to Melbourne and have got a fairly definate Friday drinky-poos venue organised (at the aforesaid Young and Jacksons)and I will email all within the week. I have been abit remiss because of separation from hubby(good thing)/return of thyroid cancer(sounds like a bad thing but google it-not that drastic)/and general life shit so when I meet you all I expect kiss, a hug, an introduction to your single, 30 something brother and free drink.
Blasphemous to the Bacon and Beer lovers, yes. But then, blasphemy is not a bannable offence, but is encouraged.
If I was in control here…
Nah just kidding.
< pitchfork and torch >
BURN THE INFIDEL!!!1!!1
</ pitchfork and torch >
Hi, Rev BDC (comment #194), The ZCMIs (Zion Crap Mall Installations) have hit hard times. My local version closed a long time ago. Seems people do want to shop on Sundays, and closing the big anchor store in a mall hurt not just ZCMI’s bottom line, but all the other stores in the malls as well.
From July, 2001:
Once again, Lynna, your Mormon-fu is impressive.
My memory may be off on this (as it is on many things) but other than the temples themselves wasn’t ZCMI one of the only places you could purchase temple garments?
Actually, now that I typed that that sounds wrong but I’ll let it stand.
Why all the hate on XXXX? I drank gallons of the stuff when I lived in Brisbane. Better than most of the stuff there.
Rev BDC (comment #202), my local ZCMI used to have a weird section toward the back of the ladies department in which there were a bunch of white dresses (and similarly for men, white suits and white belts, etc. in the men’s department). At first I thought it was a wedding shop, but upon closer inspection it was too odd for that. I never inquired about the undergarmies, but I did see packages of white nylonish underwear that, at the time, I thought were lightweight long underwear for winter wear. I’ll have to ask a few of my friends where they buy their special temple-worker- Modest Elvis clothes, and their undergarmies. I’m sure there are still retail outlets in both Utah and Idaho that carry them. Maybe they buy them online. http://www.templedress.com/
The modesty strangely wed to theatricality still gives me pause.
If anyone wants to see real antisemitism at ScienceBlogs read this fool’s comments. He lost it, started with the antisemitic epithets aimed at Mark Chu-Carroll and then cites Mein Kampf. All this over debate about a theorem (specifically, Cantor’s diagonal argument). The title of the post describes him well: A Crank among Cranks.
I love Mark. I have no idea what he’s talking about most of the time because the math flies far over my head, but he’s one cool cucumber.
Pardon moi, SC, I assure you as ardently as I can that I have no ‘attitude’, so to speak, in this regard. I was making a statement of fact, a fact that I have personally encountered (read, ‘heard with my own ears’) several times in my own lab and that of others. As I mentioned earlier, the aforementioned speakers were mostly of an older generation (though one young medical student from Israel, who rotated through my lab seemed to have similar feelings). Now, I cannot attest to the mental or emotional status of these individuals when they spoke those words; what I mean is I simply don’t know what prompted them to feel that way. All I can say is that the situations in which anti-Semitism was brought up may not have actually resulted from any anti-Semitism.
Please refer back to your own arguments against Henry Gee’s outburst. You (and others) indicated that Henry trotted out an ‘anti-Semitism’ argument where it wasn’t necessary or warranted or even appropriate, am I correct? From my own experience (that I recounted in the earlier message), Henry is not alone in feeling that way. I have heard others expressing the same sentiments. That’s really all that I am saying, nothing more, nothing less.
And, of course, you’d agree with me that anti-Semitism very much exists in different parts of world, in different societies, right? But do remember that at the same time, there is also a lot of hypocrisy intricately woven into the fabric of facts and events. You yourself recognize that fact, when you say:
Therefore, the reality for the Jewish people isn’t, or rather cannot be, a simple and straightforward us-versus-them or finger-pointing reality. There have been missteps on all sides. Sooner that fact is recognized and dealt with, more stable and harmonious it would become for humanity as a whole. The relentless bickering and mindless violence and meaningless loss of countless lives must end some time, no? I just hope I’d live to see the day.
I absolutely agree with you about the importance of remembering the tragedy, but disagree on one point, and one point only. I don’t think that ‘suffering and oppression’ or its endless regurgitation should be the central tenet of anyone’s life. Just as it’s true that those who forget history are doomed to repeat it, it’s also true that living consistently in the past does not make for a enduring and fulfilling existence. My firm belief – and one that is shared by many of my Jewish friends – is that given the most amazing intellectual capacity, scholarship and talents of the Jewish people in general, it is infinitely more preferable to live looking at the future, forging ahead and making meaningful contributions to the betterment of humanity – without having to drag a burden of sadness and survivor’s guilt all the way through.
Diane:
You are not alone! *wipes tears of joy
Please don’t hate me, Pharynguhorde, but I found that I can’t enjoy any alcoholic beverage. I have so far tasted beer (British, American and Indian), various types of wine (red and white), cocktails, and whiskey (single and double-malt, of various sources and ages); my connoisseur friends have tried in many ways to prime me. But whenever I put any, that is, any, alcoholic drink in my mouth, I never find any flavor, aroma, body, subtle hint of this and reminiscence of that that they seem to get. All I taste is alcohol that smells like my 70% ethanol lab disinfectant, and is vaguely reminiscent of the homeopathic mother tinctures that I was made to ingest (6 drops in a cup of water!) when I was an innocent child.
I am the ETERNAL designated driver.
Man. Have I had a sheltered upbringing…
I wonder if the letter C is more out of fashion in Austria than in Germany…
You’ve told us about this before, and I still can’t grasp it. Northern Germany hasn’t had that much less of a Polish and otherwise “generic eastern” immigration history than the biggest Austrian cities, has it???
It just boggles the mind!
The parents? Paying a trip to the Dominican Republic? With what fucking money?
I didn’t expect it, but these Baptists are just as clueless as the Scientologists.
Indeed, scientists changing their names after their first publication seems to be a thing of the past.
B-)
:-) :-) :-)
The banned one has hopelessly crazy, creepy associations that he likes to dump on us, because he believes everyone has them and reminding us of them will make us admit the existence of demons. From this, we will somehow conclude that Jesus exists, too, hallelujah. Compared to this, heddle is outright sane! heddle only has two or three irrational assumptions and proceeds rationally from them.
And he wasn’t “released from the dungeon”. He had never been in there, as far as I remember, and I can’t find any release notice in the dungeon either.
The first time PZ tells someone to “go away” (which did happen to heddle), that’s not the actual act of bannination yet…
:-D :-D :-D
Except when he didn’t and just tried to deep-psychology-guilt-trip us all.
Too cool.
Alberto Fujimori, strongman of Peru, who had to leave the country in a hurry because of a corruption scandal at least 10 years ago…
Never. I seem to lack acquired tastes entirely. :-)
(…So, was I born liking cocoa, peppermint, and small amounts of green pepper? Looks like it. =8-) )
I cyber-know a linguist blogger (one of those people who learns one language after another just for the fun of it <facepalm>) who told me his grandfather only ever spoke “German” to him, so he grew up having “German” as yet another native language. That same grandfather had never spoken “German” to his daughter (the blogger’s mother). WTF? Also, the “German” isn’t any of the dialects spoken by German minorities in the region. To my untrained eyes, a small sample of this “German” looks exactly like Yiddish…
Someone please close my mouth. It’s drying out.
Kausik Datta asked if I’d gotten a comment attached to one of the “Diagnose Lynna” transfers sent via PayPal to my daughter. I imagine that other people are wondering as well.
A few people asked for strict anonymity, so I asked Krystl not to pass on any info, not even to me. She took that seriously and didn’t pass on your notes of encouragement either. :-) I talked to her today and she went back through the transfer details and picked out the comments obviously intended for me and forwarded them to me.
Some of those comments are more emotionally moving than the seafaring songs that ‘Tis Himself sometimes posts. Sven and ‘Tis would be streaming tears. And they contain, at the same time, a sharp talent for humor that is one of Pharyngula’s greatest assets.
lf you want confirmation of your transfer, please also feel free to contact Krystl at littlemy at rcn dot com.
A lot of you thoughtful people must like me more than I realized. It’s better news than one often hears/sees on newscasts, where the humanity of humanity often seems to have gone missing.
Speaking of going missing, I’ll be gone for a few days. I’ve got a job to do in Teton Valley (Rev BDC, eat your heart out), and I probably won’t be able to check in on the endless thread. I’m in serious money-making mode, but I’m working for a consortium of state, federal, private, and county organizations — and that kind of bureaucracy can be frustrating. Last time I did an ad campaign for them, they took more than 3 months to pay me. Ah well, some work is better than no work, and at least I get to exercise my writing chops.
I’ll be gone for a few days. I’ve got a job to do in Teton Valley (Rev BDC, eat your heart out)
Damn it!
And I missed this whole thing. Can someone point me to the relevant info?
Dang, I just looked hard at the calendar. The next couple of weeks is a train wreck of holidays. President’s day, Chinese New Year, and Mardi Gras. Lots of plan-overs.
Rev. BDC, try here.
And that was my three-screener for the day.
:-) :-) :-)
I am not alone :-)
(Well, I knew that much already, but it’s always nice to welcome someone to the club. :-) )
Also, it’s not just the taste – the smell is highly disagreeable, too!
The only time I ever tried beer, someone had spilled some on my plate and I started drinking it from there, thinking it was tea (this was in China, where tea often is yellow). The bitter taste was rather overwhelming, and that was when I noticed the typical disgusting beer smell. Vile! I don’t quite remember what I did then, but probably I spat the entire milliliter back on the plate and used a serviette to make it disappear, or something.
Exactly. Wine, especially, really does smell like the alcohol chemists use as a washing liquid. (In addition to smelling like grape juice, which isn’t good either.)
Wwwwwelllll… if it’s been heated too much for too long…
<shaking head in disbelief>
Human neurodiversity – a wonder to behold.
X-D
Fortunately I already had a handkerchief in front of my nose when I snorted!
Except that the words “cool” and “cucumber” contradict each other. <shiver in revulsion> <puke>
<sigh>
I actually wanted to work today.
His full name is actually Alberto Fujimori Fujimori. It’s common in my dad’s generation (second generation Japanese). When they came to Latin America, since the husband and wife had only one last name and it was the same, their kids took it twice. I’m not sure if this happened to the kids of any Americans or people from other countries with similar customs.
Holy Mother of God
For those who give a crap, I would like to make it clear that the following is NOT me:
http://www.mrfire.com/
I am not bald, for one thing.
Hey there. I’m new here. Gary, near Cincinnati, Ohio, USA.
Diversion:
Science vs religion podcast from CERN by Prof Brian Cox.
http://www.cernpodcast.com/?p=21
Interesting. The usual bafflegab from the theological chappie, but not 100% bullshit. Perhaps there’s hope…
Louis
217 comments already?!
And I’m at least three subthreads behind …
This where I randomly pimp some art:
Fox!
Frog!
This coming Monday I’m gonna try to get rid of some hydrofluoric acid. If you never hear of me again (and notice), now you know why.
Which reminds me – I’d better contribute to the Diagnose Lynne Fond immediately (sorry, Haiti). I managed to whine enough at my unemployment ensures so they’ve fixed the error I made and paid out the rest of my dole. I seem to have about 5500,- available for the rest of the month (actually, that’s what left until I hit the ceiling on my arranged overdraft).
*goes back to look for Paypal stuff*
On an earlier incarnation, I said that trifluoromethanesulfonic acid was pure evil. But HF is a worthy rival for that position.
Are you etching microchips, perhaps?
For those who give a crap, I would like to make it clear that the following is NOT me:
http://www.mrfire.com/
Oh yeah. That’s the Secret guy. Skeptico had some back and forth (mostly Skeptiko pointing out what a moron he is) with him when the Secret was going big.
Patricia,
I don’t know. Why do you ask?
oh blockquoting fail. As in I didn’t even do it.
Not that I’ve caught up, but on the subject of namechanges, I know of at least one person who’s changed his name after having years of publications under his belt.
Two people from my group at uni have hyphenated their names upon marrying. Of course their publists weren’t quite as long.
Of course, in my case as a (failed) crystallographer, I’ve had my names attached to papers without any input, so I’m known as both John Beesbog and John K. Beesbog. Not that it matters since I’m not likely to ever be let back into the fold.
Complicated name arrangements in Denmark, China, and Spanish-speaking countries.
Jeholornis!
Close-up of Jeholornis!
Sitting on a contemporary (Early Cretaceous) ginkgo tree, the fruits of which have been found as stomach contents.
Incidentally, Jeholornis could be a junior synonym of Shenzhouraptor, or the other way round depending on which was published first (remarkably different to find out for Shenzhouraptor). And Jixiangornis and Dalianraptor, both named later, could also belong into this mix of long-tailed birds. Nobody has so far tried to sort this mess out, or at least nothing has been published.
Major mistake in the picture: the wing feathers are shown attached to the third finger, but should attach to the second.
Nope. Writing workplace safety summaries for hardening company (a placement to get work experience and boost my CV). I was checking the cupboards in their little lab and discovered a plastic bottle with “flussyre” written on it with a permanent marker and a bit of liquid in it.
Apparently they had most of their stuff removed a coupla years ago (they’ve been downsizing a lot) and on that occasion they narrowly escaped having to close down completely and wait for the bombsquad to remove a bottle of picric acid. That has been an issue in quite a few uni labs, too, recently.
So noönes using it, and it’s easier to destroy than write up the safety procedures.
Just a couple of things before I run to town:
I, like Walton and a few others, cannot stand beer. The taste causes me to gag. If I drink it’s usually sweet wine, tequila, vodka, or Jack Daniels and drinks that contain these spirits. OTOH, I very rarely drink because my hangovers are so bad!
Confuciusornis!
What do you mean by “let”? Aren’t you being encouraged enough to finish your thesis…?
He [Jesus] would have mixed with Pharynguloids. I’ll bet the conversation with PZ would have been fascinating to listen to.
Actually I imagine it would go something more along the lines of this:
http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2007/02/law_of_attracti.html
I remember there being some really dumb non sequiturs spoken by Jesus, so I think if Jesus were to show up here, it would be yet another case of a “profound wise” dude is confronted with actual real logic, and reveals self to be complete idiot.
Kel OM around about 110
First round on is on me. I may even call into the Wig and Pen on the way down. One for you too Bride of Shrek – if I’m included on the invite list.
Welcome to the bearpit GaryU :)
Sorry folks, another driveby. These guys are working me into the ground.
Mr. T at 104
What a music nerd. :)
How is this done, BTW? With powdered limestone in a lot of cold water?
David, I really have better thing to do than engage in SIWOTIS. Please be more careful with your links.
Also I am grown old and impatient and as a result I just got myself elected to the tenants association last night because noöne fucking else could be arsed to volunteer and it was getting far too late already (in fact I was several hours late to ‘work’ today because I overslept …).
You don’t want to be banned, you want to be barred. That way you get to be SC, OM & bar.
Damn. I thought I could shift the blame.
That would prolly work, too. I’m gonna do it in two steps. Neutralising with Sodium hydroxide after dilution and then precipitation with Calcium nitrate.
SC,OM?
I go to bed having answered all the questions, followed up all the sub-threads and in seconds, while I was preparing my bed calls message I get a dozen comments, many assuming things I do not think I said and certainly not what I would agree to. And now another 230+ comments. All inside 24 hours.
If you really want me to reply to some of those comments then you are going to have to wait until I catch up.
Somehow I suspect we’re looking at the next incarnation of the thread.
Was always careful with HF acid after I talked to the local glass man who told me about losing his fingernails to it. The doctor told him to come back if it got in his bones and he would give him some painkillers and sympathy. I made it as needed in a lead dish with sulfuric and CaF2. This is in my parents basement.(during high school, wiseguys)
BS
Re the earlier portion of the thread, I plan on taking my finance’s last name when we get married, but he has a /much/ more interesting name than I do. Also I (unfortunately) have no publications out yet, so there is no professional reason for me to keep my father’s name.
Re semi-current portion of thread, I wonder if working with EtOH in the lab so much is one reason why I’m not so fond of the taste. I can do sweet mixed drinks if they are weak, but both wine and beer taste unbearably bitter to me. I’ve also never been able to stand the taste long enough to imbibe any volume large enough to get me tipsy. But that probably stems from a dislike of lack of control.
Actually, both work, but David’s method is preferred for small amounts. Mix it all together, and walk away for a while. At our place, we would lab pack it out.
Further to our discussion of alcoholic concoctions that are acceptable, it being Friday*, I am currently drinking something allegedly Italian in a wine bar, and it’s good, too.
No, I don’t recall what it is beyond its nation of origin, I’m afraid. They were out of my first pick–it made it complicated. But it’s all good.
Yes, I like wine bars. Before you judge me, in consonance with my previous sentiment, I also like biker bars–and even vaguely yuppieish fern bars and faux Irish pubs nowhere near Ireland, and grotty, tasteless meat/meet markets with irritating percussive dance music playing and frequented by a large number of alternately or even synchronously frightening and amusing sexually desperate people, and at which the martini menu contains no actual martinis. I think of this as being an adventurous audience member for life’s rich pageant… And/or versatile character actor, depending on how many I’ve had.
All of that didn’t help with the ‘before you judge me’, did it…
Anyway, my point is: the wine is good, whatever it is. Good enough that the nattering sixtysomething women at the next table going on about yoga, ‘alternative spiritual experiences’ and about men come across as pretty entertaining, too. That good.
(/*’Kay, so I may actually have started, technically, when the sun was over the yardarm in this timezone yesterday, actually… My point is: it’s still Friday.)
#235 Sili
If you need background information then the following may be helpful (hopefully, however, you will have properly risk assessed procedures where you work)
http://www.chess.cornell.edu/safety/chemsop/hydrflrc.htm
Go safely!
Yeah. The word has lost all meaning.
No accounting for taste, but since we’re sharing drink prefs:
1. beer–I will and have drunk every type (in most cases* to excess at least once), and damn it, I can even enjoy a Bud Light or 3 on a hot summer afternoon, but flavor-wise I prefer ’em hoppy or dark. Bitter is good. Very good.
2. wine, red and dry, if beer is not available (e.g. my ex-wife-#-2’s place), or at a classy-enough dinner table.
3. Irish whiskey, but only as a supplement to #1.
4. maybe a nice Scotch or bourbon on the rocks if offered, but never a purchase.
Any taste of sweet fruit or sugar–no thank you!
*hahaha, in most cases…of beer? THese are the jokes, people.
I’m line there though I prefer bourbon over other whiskey (or whisky) and I want to feel like the wine I’m drinking smashed me in the face. Hence my preference for California Cabernet. I can appreciate subtlety, but I don’t prefer it.
Oh, that’s probably better (at least for a bottle of the stuff) – no gases should come out that way. Having it sparkle might leave ugly holes in everything and everyone too close by…
BINGO!
That’s why I get annoyed when the state of Israël levels the charge of antisemitism at anyone who dares deplore Zionism.
I think I’ve at some points considered embracing the labels of antisemite if they continued, but I guess I’ven’t been paying attention the plight of the Palestinians lately.
Welcome, Gary. Here’s hoping you won’t be shoveling the driveway tomorrow.
#239
Calcium gluconate gel is a must for work with HF.
Someone ordered some 40% hydrofluoric acid where I last worked. We had a procedure that nobody orders chemicals without the knowledge of my Section. Once we found out about it, we had little difficulty in persuading them that they didn’t need it. For a start, Company procedures required a First Aider specifically trained in dealing with HF on site 24/7.
The same idiot also put in an order for enough potassium cyanide to kill all the staff several times over (once would be one time too many!). I found out that he had a standard list of chemicals from previous employment and was “stocking up”. No. He didn’t need potassium cyanide either although both potassium cyanide and hydrofluoric acid have their place – just not where I worked!!
Test failed, as expected. Good (as in Journal of Negative Results).
To clarify, my current favourite martini is: 3 oz. Sapphire*, 1 drop (literally–moisten finger, fling drop off it into shaker) vermouth, 3 nice, plump olives. Shake like hell over ice, so it fizzes nicely upon pour and flattens out quick, drink while cold. The fact that there are bars that can call something containing Red Bull a martini, is, as per previous observation, part of life’s rich pageant, and something to add to the ‘yes, I really tried this’ list, not so much something I’d drink while there was much of an alternative.
As per a linear preference, I dunno. I’m moody. Sometimes, the brain sez: ‘wine now’. Sometimes it sez ‘Sapphire and olives now’. On hot days, it could be almost any beer, from near tasteless lagers through meaty ales through stouts in which you could stand up a fork…
And I really like Irish whisky. Not against Scotch, but I dunno… it can all get so terribly serious, and the last time I spent like $90 a bottle, I couldn’t honestly say it struck me the difference I noticed was worth quite that much. And re Irish whisky, my current gripe is, at the liquor store I visited the other day, they had no Bushmills, for some reason, but honestly, Jamesons (which they did have) is fine with me, too. I’m not especially sectarian about the whole thing.
(*/I was previously slightly shamed by this preference, Sapphire being a relatively new thing, but I believe it was persons on this very blog who assured me this has now been accepted into the great fraternity of martini bases, even, perhaps, rapidly becoming canonical, so I can cop to this honestly now, which I find a great relief. It is time I moved beyond living a lie.)
Lynna (#204)
I know you can buy the magic underwear at the temple in Seattle. Dunno about elsewhere. There are even catalogs you can use to see which styles you want before you get there, too. I wonder if anyone puts “Mormon underwear model” on their resume…
I quite like beer (I mean, of course, proper beer – cask-conditioned bitter – but very rarely drink it, because it has an embarrassingly strong diuretic effect on me – one pint and I’m sidling off to the gents every half hour for the rest of the evening. Irish whiskey is much more palatable than Scotch – but still not enough that I keep any in the house. Dry red wine is the only drink I’d be really sorry to give up.
Sili
As Alan B said.
Many years ago (shit and corruption 47 years ago!)
I spent an afternoon stripping the feed pumps for a freon 114 pilot plant
They pumped Tricoethelene, Liquid Chlorine and AHF.
Still makes be shudder at the naivety of youth
WOTI. Gary is in northewestern Indiana. If the wind is right, you might be able to smell it in Cincinnati.
I will skip the obligatory link to The Music Man, if that’s OK with everybody else.
Oh yeah… I think I even remember this… still wondering where or why I might have been taught it, though. Maybe I just read it somewhere at random.
Calcium gluconate sounds really harmless. Should give off less heat than sodium hydroxide.
<headdesk>
That’s an interesting point. Thanks, Carlie.
The Curious Case of Charles Darwin and Homeopathy
Abstract links to the free pdf
The Forty Years Ago Horrid Music War is in the other thread.
badgersdaughter @156:
Tiger Beer? Or perhaps Tsingtao? I think the former is pretty good, but I don’t like the latter at all.
*ruffles brain for fellow asian commenters*
Gyeong Hwa? Would you second this?
And certainly not near each other. Anything breaks, and you have potassium fluoride plus…
The room that houses my usual barstool–due to their 16 beer taps and pretty good taste–has (fake) Red Bull on the squirt gun.
Kids today!
How I wish I could find that parody song I was looking for when we talked about skiing last time…
#21 Knockgoats
Perhaps a good place to start on this thread:
Nor have I.
It isn’t, and I never said it was a concern of mine.
“do the decent thing” is your wording, not mine. I might just wonder (in passing) why someone would choose to go against the current conventions of British society but it is definitely not something I would loose sleep about. It’s their life. No one has to explain or justify their actions to me. It’s none of my blankety blank business and I don’t intend to make it so.
How ridiculous! That is something I have never even have thought of doing! Why on earth or anywhere else would I want to be so borish?
However, I don’t think anyone should be surprised or upset if I were to use “Mrs Husbandsname” if I did not know they wished to be referred to differently. After all, whatever may be the case elsewhere, it is still the majority (but not universal) convention in this country to do so.
In general, if I did not know them, I would try to listen and be sensitive to any clues they might drop before I used a name. With so many couples living together outside of marriage it would be silly to launch in with Mrs Husbandsname and get egg on my face.
And calcium cyanide was available over the counter in North and South Dakota. It’s used to gas prairie dogs and honey bees. Don’t even need a strong acid, water will work. There was often a strong smell of cyanide in my backyard. We got used to it.
Did you see the story of Ernest Shackleton’s stash of whiskey being recovered? Since we are getting all autobiographical here, I can’t drink at all, doctor’s orders.
BS
*Monty Python facepalm*
Our thrrreee most diabolical acids are:
triflic acid (dissolves you on the outside)
hydrofluoric acid (dissolves you on the inside)
picric acid (blows your outsides and insides the fuck up)
I think you guys will get a kick out of this…
Some guy from the “Christian Anti-Defamation Commission” decides to fisk President Obama’s speech at the National Prayer Breakfast* from a “Biblical perspective”.
Come for the part where he calls doubting religious doctrines “irrational”, but stay for the bit where he attempts to justify the Crusades!
*It should be noted that this is actually his speech from last year.
#256 David Marjanović
Sorry, David. I have confused you. My fault.
Calcium gluconate is used in the form of a gel for first aid treatment of HF skin contact. HF will continue to attack the skin, flesh and eventually bone unless it is treated chemically and calcium gluconate gel is the preferred method. The only link with the disposal of HF is the HF itself.
It would be standard practice to have calcium gluconate gel and a first aider trained in its use whenever HF is used (and preferably even when it is merely being stored – you may need to take action following an inadvertent release or a fire).
for example:
http://www.spservices.co.uk/product_info.php/cPath/93/products_id/3479
(This just happens to be the first link when you Google calcium gluconate gel.)
Alan B,
I said I interned at a hardening plant. They do a lot of nitrocarburizing and stuff. One guy does the Tenifer method, which primarily uses cyanate but he does have to throw in some cyanide to activate it (I think – I still haven’t found out just what goes on in the pot).
The guys on the other side of the hall drop the -ate.
There’s no gluconate available – I have to bring over the calcium solution from the other branch, myself. At least we’re only talking a few ml (in a 200 ml jar!), and I know that’s dangerous enough, but it’s not wast quantities (in which case I’d have called in help).
Why the focus on acids? Cr(CO)6 and its ilk are fun! As is OsO4. Or isopropyl peroxides!
I hate you all. This discussion has prompted me to make myself a dry martini (small spray of oil from the skin of a fresh, unwaxed lime into the shaker, ice cubes, Hendrick’s gin, run around the shaker once with a sealed bottle of Noilly Prat, STIR the mixture, pour through strainer into chilled martini glass containing two rinsed pimento stuffed green olives).
I shall probably have to have another one now. Bastards.
HF discussion:
Calcium gluconate gel is essential, as others have said. I always used to quench HF (when I worked with it and other really nasty shit like BrF) with calcium salts, due to the lower toxicity of the resulting CaF compared to alkali metal fluorides (NaF ORL-RAT LD50: 52 mg/kg, KF ORL-RAT LD50: 245 mg/kg, CaF ORL-RAT LD50:4250 mg/kg for example). Sure it’s usually slower, and can be hotter, but stick it in a disposal tub at the back of a spare fume hood and everyone is happy. Saves a lot of agro too.
Louis
#226 Sili
Just seen this in looking back through the new thread.
My father was a retail pharmacist for 50+ years and he had a bottle of picric acid left over from a previous owner.
According to Wiki:
Lovely colour. I would guess it was present in chemistry laboratories because of its use in the analysis of metals, ores, and minerals.
The picric acid was kept with a layer of water over it because dry picric acid is relatively sensitive to shock and friction. If wet it is considered safe. Also, if in contact with metals it can form metal picrates which are far more sensitive.
If I found a bottle labelled “picric acid” without water and with a metal cap I would put it down gently and run like ****.
Accumulating chemicals is a major problem in many well-established laboratories. A whole variety of reagents are obtained for perfectly good reasons. The reason goes away and no one disposes of the reagent (“It might be useful one day and we won’t have to buy some more”). You end up with whole shelves of more or less hazardous chemicals which no one has the nerve (or the authority) to get rid of.
We had an annual job for a senior chemist to go round the laboratory with the Technician and to challenge the reason for every bottle.
Why is this cobalt chloride here?
“We used it to make a blue coloured solution for a display”
Did you know it is now considered to be a probable human carcinogen?
“No. We had no idea.”
If you had to do the same thing again, could you just use a blue food dye?
“Yes, I suppose we could.”
Right. We’ll get rid of it then!
OR
“Yes we use it to make up standards for analysis.”
Could you buy in standard solutions when you need them to save handling and storing the solid material?
“Yes. And it would save the time we spend making up standards.”
Good. We can get rid of it then!
We got Brownie points from our Regulator for having a process that ensured the variety of hazardous chemicals on site was minimised (under the COSHH and CHIPP Regs.).
#268
Let’s have a look: Chromium hexacarbonyl.
Labels required:
Skull and Crossbones Toxic.
N with picture of dead tree and fish Dangerous to the environment (as are all(?) chromium compounds).
So, what other risks?
R21 Harmful in contact with skin.
R22 Harmful if swallowed.
R23 Toxic by inhalation.
R43 May cause sensitization by skin contact.
R44 Risk of explosion if heated under confinement.
R49 May cause cancer by inhalation.
R50 Very toxic to aquatic organisms.
R53 May cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment.
Nice stuff! How do we work with it?
S36 Wear suitable protective clothing.
S37 Wear suitable gloves.
S45 In case of accident or if you feel unwell, seek medical advice immediately (show the
label whenever possible.)
S53 Avoid exposure – obtain special instructions before use.
S60 This material and its container must be disposed of as hazardous waste.
S61 Avoid release to the environment. Refer to special instructions / safety data sheets.
Hm. I’ve seen worse. (But I still wouldn’t play with it!!)
Oh I see. We’re going down the “chemicals I found in my lab one fine day” anecdotes are we? Fair enough!
1) One company I worked for a decade or so ago had inherited a warehouse full of chemicals from the company the bought part of the site from. This older company was involed in testing anrcotics amongst other things so we knew we might find something fruity. The safety officer and myself (as a chemistry consult) went up to the warehouse to see what we could see (Inventory? We weren’t given no stinking inventory!).
We spent two days opening cupboards checking for fun/nasty substances and arranging for their disposal/cataloguing as appropriate. On the third day, we got to the last row of ten cupboards and opened the first one to find tub upon tub of prescription/over the counter medications like ibuprofen, paracetamol etc. Second cupboard we opened had some more exciting things like ecstasy and various amphetamines, LSD and a few other street drugs (including, interestingly for me, semi-synthetic delta-9 THC and a few other cannabinoids. I worked on cannabinoid med chem once). Cupboards 3 through 10 were the pay load. Four cuboards of cocaine (and various tropane derivatives) and four of various opiates including heroin. Just goes to show, it’s always the last place you look.
The safety officer went a very nice shade of white and we both legged it back to the main building. We delicately informed the director of chemistry and phoned Customs and Excise who turned up 45 mins later with a lorry and some large gentlemen. We signed a form, the large gentlemen took the cupboards away entirely (drugs, cupboards, wall fittings and all), and peace was restored. The safety officer’s heart rate dipped below 200 for the first time that day.
Just to give you an idea of scale, each cupboard was about 2 metres tall, 1.5 metres wide and ~25cm deep, each was fulled to the brim with 500g tubs of each chemical. Street value: lots.
2) Shorter but more fun for me. During my PhD I found, mouldering at the back of someone’s under hood cupboard 2 kilos of crystalline picric acid (touch sensitive explosive). It had been there approx 30 years (left over from previous prof and undisturbed) as far as we could tell, untouched and comprised of really large crystals. Scared? Two changes of underwear needed before contemplating disposal.
Anyway, as for nasty chemcicals, Os tet, triflic acid, HF, various selenides and stannanes and the like are nasty enough, but molybdenum hexacarbonyl is fun. If memory serves the MSDS comes as a two volume hardback! ;-)
Ahhhh sweet chemistry.
Louis
I’ve recently taken a step back from meatspace interaction – and, since I live alone and considering drinking alone to be a bad thing (I associate it with alcoholism), I really don’t hit the booze very often any more.
When I do it’s usually beer or wine; I rarely drink spirits anymore, though I am developing a fondness for g&ts and martinis – as evidenced by my thinking (thanks to the comments upthread) about how nice one of the latter would be right now – and it’s 8 in the morning where I am…
Alan B.@263,
Fair enough – except for:
“why someone would choose to go against the current conventions of British society”
a) It isn’t really any more – enough couples don’t do it for it not to be in any way remarkable, and
b) Why not go against the current conventions of British society? I do it (e.g. by being completely uninterested in sport, hating Christmas, being explicit about thinking religion is a load of crap, always saying “died” rather than “passed away” or other silly euphemisms…) quite a lot, and generally enjoy it!
Also – you were the one who made a point of expressing your “preference” for women taking their husband’s name. Why, if, as you now say, it’s no concern of yours?
Alan B,
A personal fave: R57: Toxic to bees.
Important.*
Louis
*Actually, it IS very important, but it’s clustered away with a series of really nasty sounding risk phrases in the 40s and 50s and seems so timid by comparison.
#271
I meant to add, What do you use it for?
Oh and as for the “wife takes husdnad’s name” thing. My wife didn’t take my name, I’m very glad about it as is she, and we tossed for which name the kid takes. The kid lost. He got mine! ;-)
In this day and age I think there really is no wrong or right on the issue, it’s individual choice. I know plenty of my female friends that would fight to take their husband’s name and plenty of others who’d fight just as hard not to. Let ’em do as they will sayeth I. Puritans on either side be damned.
Louis
HF is used at my workplace – something to do with soil samples I think – so I learned a bit about it in a first aid course. The take home message seemed to be: if you spill it on yourself, amputation works if you’re quick enough; otherwise, try for a cheap deal at the local undertaker.
Wowbagger #273,
8am in the morning and you haven’t started drinking? What are you man or mouse? ;-)
Louis
P.S. All: “husdnads”? Obviously meant “husband’s”. This martini is better than I thought.
Were you sorely tempted to “forget” your glasses and have to run back for them?
I would’ve been.
Knockgoats #278,
That was always the general impression we were given. We got a great safety lecture about it once. A medic came in and told us how far up the arm he’d amputate for each hour after an HF burn on the hand. He may well have been exaggerating but we treated the stuff with some respect after that!
Louis
Also, if you plan on doing much with the HF, be sure you’re using a fume hood with a plexiglass shield, not real glass. The fumes, they etch good.
I have the calcium gluconate tube taped onto the side of the fume hood for justincase, along with calcium carbonate powder around the beakers in case of a drop or two spilling without notice.
Sven #280:
I wasn’t too tempted at the time, but an hour or so later, if I said I didn’t wonder what “might have been”, I’d be lying.
Millions of pounds worth of street drugs, and only one small safety officer between me and riches…
Oh well.
Louis
Alan B @245 – I used to use sodium bicarb, but more recent recommendations are to use calcium carbonate instead. Perhaps you can explain why it’s better? I barely squeaked my way through of my chem minor.
Also, if you plan on doing much with the HF, be sure you’re using a fume hood with a plexiglass shield, not real glass. The fumes, they etch good.
Carlie #284,
See my #269 for a possible reason. Alkali metal fluorides are very toxic. Calcium fluoride is much less so.
Louis
Knockgoats #278
The reason for the freon 114 plant was to use some of the product from the HF plant next door.
Operators in this plant needed to wipe over the gauges with a wet rag to make the readings visible through the deeply etched glass.
The plant was originally built in the 1940s to provide HF for the UK atomic weapon program (UF6 I guess) We shipped about 20tonnes/week by road tanker.
Fume Hoods? wimps
Thanks Louis – sorry I didn’t catch that.
There was an episode of ER once that had a guy come in from a glass-etching factory with HF burns over a portion of his body; his whole story line was just hook him up to the morphine and watch him cope with the knowledge that he only had a few hours left.
Oh and also Carlie, your advice in #282 is spot on. Too many people forget the “little” things like gluconate tape/indicator papers in the hood. They make all the difference to be honest.
I worked with phosgene* once, and making indicator papers that I put in the fume hood saved my life.
Louis
*There was no alternative, but I’m buggered if I’ll do that again.
Lynna, OM #190
Movable ballast is not a new innovation. The sandbagger sloops, outlawed in 1890, were massively overpowered boats with huge crews. Most of the crew was involved in tossing the sandbag ballast from one part of the boat to another.
The America’s Cup has always been about large, expensive boats pushing the rules as far as they’ll go. The original America, built in 1850, was a 101 foot long, shallow draft, wide beam schooner designed specifically to win races against English yachts. After winning a race around the Isle of Wight* by over eight minutes, no other yachts would race her. She was awarded the Royal Yacht Squadron Hundred Guineas Cup, later renamed the America’s Cup. Just as a bit of trivia, the America’s Cup is a pitcher which can’t hold liquid, since it has no bottom.
Starting in three days two billionaires will race 90 foot multi-hull boats for the America’s Cup. I might even glance at the sports section of the paper to see what’s happening in the races. Or I might not.
*Queen Victoria watched the race. After America won she asked, “Who came in second?” The reply was, “Madam, there is no second.”
Oh great, Google has changed its homepage again. GOD. Why do they think they have to tweak it every couple of months?
Now I feel like a loser, Louis – I just meant I literally taped the tube of the stuff to the inside wall so I’d never forget where it was or have difficulty getting to it in an emergency. :D
? looks the same to me
LOL Sorry Carlie, I didn’t mean to make you feel like a loser. Blame my lack of reading for comprehension after a few martinis.
Tell you what, you don’t tell anyone and neither will I. ;-)
LOuis
Have a safe trip, Lynna. We’ll be looking forward to your return.
It’ll be our secret, Louis.
Sven – about a half-hour ago Google changed for me to have the menus at the top solid instead of mouse-over, and the boxes under the search box large blocky blue. It’s much like a previous incarnation, so I wonder if it’s there as a placeholder for awhile while they make other changes.
huh. Its (Teh Google, pbui) appearance is browser-specific.
Now Google is teh normalz again, so maybe I just caught it when a developer was messing around and an older template got loaded for a few minutes by accident.
#274 Knockgoats
Ah. I can see where you are coming from.
This is the trouble on the internet. It is difficult for a 60+ year old to put a nuanced position across amongst a pack of ravening young wolves (otherwise known as Pharynguloids) who look on things in a modern way. (I know. I know. There are many people out there over a huge range of ages, backgrounds, etc. etc. Yadder, yadder. But it’s fun to picture some of you that way.)
My future wife and I discussed this (and a huge number of other issues) before we got married. We both preferred that we took the same surname. The cultural convention 40+ years ago in the UK was for the wife to take her husband’s surname. We were both entirely happy with this and if anyone had asked we would both have stated independently that we strongly preferred to do it this way.
Why did we have that preference? Because we both felt the same way about the nature of the union we were entering into. (Rearrange into better English if you wish.)
We considered that we were to be united for life. We were in a very real sense (and I just know someone is going to hate me saying this) ONE. United. Not absorbed into the Borg. We were still our own people with our own likes and dislikes, our own personalities.
Let us suppose that my surname was Bogis. (It is not although I know several people by that name – a good, old, Norfolk name). And suppose her surname was de Pfeffel-Johnson (it’s not – it’s part of the name of Boris Johnson, Lord Mayor of London). One of the things she “gave up” for me when we married was her name which sounds like it could have had a noble history. She would no longer be called Melanie (not her name) de Pfeffle-Johnson. She would carry the title “Mrs Bogis” for the rest of our lives. If I pre-deceased her she would be free to take whatever title she wanted but until then, Melanie Bogis it was.
She would give up a part of her identity and independence. I would also give up part of my identity and independence. I would never again be able to act selfishly. I was now part of “Mr and Mrs Bogis” Incorporated, if you like. The family firm. Previously I was Alan (assuming that is really my given name) Bogis. Free. Single. Largely [Ed. Totally] selfish. Young. Handsome. Debonair. (OK, perhaps not all of that but I can dream can’t I?)
The giving up of her name was more visible but the giving up of ourselves to each other was just as real to both of us.
We now had a common purpose: to love and support each other, no matter what, “for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death did us part”. To share all we had with each other. Sharing our bodies in sexual union (“one flesh”) being only symbolic of a union of body, mind, purpose, love for each other, desire to please each other. To become best friends, to do all we could to help each other to achieve our life goals, together and separately. This is why I found rather offensive the suggestion that by having a preference (which she shares) for my wife to take on my surname I considered my wife to be “an appendage”. And actually rather ridiculous.
The sharing of our surnames is to us a symbol of the sharing we try to achieve in our union together. We achieve it well enough for us to still be together and for us to be each other’s best friend and lifelong companion.
Is it necessary for my wife to give up her surname to do that? Of course not but it is a metaphor if you like. We prefer it that way. We like it (both of us). It is our personal preference. We wear our shared name as a badge of pride. We aren’t Mr Alan Bogis and Miss Melanie de Pfeffle-Johnson. We are Mr and Mrs Bogis.
Others don’t want to do it that way? Fine! I am not going to impose my ideas on others although I might comment on what I know has worked for us.
Could I have expressed it better originally? Thinking from my background, from my angle. No. Realising that others would come at it from a totally different angle and with different life experiences, then I should have been more careful or maybe kept my mouth shut.
I don’t, didn’t and never plan to. I just listed some nasty stuff off the top of my head.
Louis, would you mind elaborating on that indicator paper trick? Sounds like something I should know. Of course, it also sounds like you guys know the R/S sentences by heart …
#284
Calcium fluoride is the main mineral (fluorite or fluospar) for the production of fluorine compounds. It is highly insoluble (if you can combine those words) and hence it is harmless except under extreme conditions (strong acids,fire).
In the EU sodium fluoride is classed as toxic (acute lethal dose around 5-10 g) and irritant, especially as a powder. At low concentrations in water, around 1 mg/kg (ppm) IIRC, it was used to add to drinking water and while there has been much discussion it is believed harmless at this level and present in drinking water in many places.
Hence, there are 2 ways of disposing of HF and the choice is going to be dependent on local legislation for dealing with hazardous waste:
Concentrate as calcium fluoride to produce a solid that is harmless (except under extreme conditions) or
Neutralise and dilute to safe levels (“the poison is in the dose”).
At Cambridge University in the UK they appear to use concentrate as harmless solid for spills and neutralise and disperse for disposal of HF.
I love the smell of fresh data in the morning.
#302
Anything fresh will have to wait until the morning for me. It’s c.23:45, I’m to bed!
The America’s Cup races I would have loved to see were the 1930s J-Boat races. Here’s Sir Thomas Lipton’s Shamrock V which lost to Sterling Burgess’s Enterprise in 1930.
Now see this is why Dawkins’s “complex god” argument is so very, very naïve…
All they have to do is say that god is not complex, but god is simple. Budda bing, badda bang, game over.
I hardly ever read Zuska, but I’m glad I saw this one.
Seven habits of highly successful toads
The unfortunately cumbersomely named “https://me.yahoo.com/hairychris444#96384” @ #175 said:
If that is the case, I wonder what I’m missing when I drink it here in the lower left hand corner of Oregon. Probably more than I’d care to consider, owing to the fact that I actually rather enjoy the stuff.
Hell, I’m probably missing the same thing that I’m missing drinking Guinness Draught from a can in the same vicinity.
Finally came across some Dogfish Head brew at the local grocer, but there was a bit of “sticker shock*.” I’ll have to overcome said shock and give it a try though, I think I recall reading highly of it here, on other beer leaning threads.
*Not as bad as the prices I’ve seen on 6 packs of Stone “Oaked Arrogant Bastard” Ale, but still fairly high, for my wallet at the moment.
Cheers to all.
I don’t know if I’ve ever read a thread here on which I understood so little. I have no idea what most of these posts are about. :|
***
I think my tastes are almost the opposite of Sven’s. I hate beer. I can’t drink red wine, and I don’t care for heavy whites. I love a dry champagne/cava/prosecco. I adore rum. (My sister just sent me the new Coastal Living, ’cause she’s sweet as can be, and I’m looking at lovely island cocktail recipes. Yum.)
***
I had copied some idiotic nonsense that Laden and Stephanie Z just said and was prepared to bang on about it, but I won’t. I’m sure no one wants to read it, including PZ, who’s been very polite letting me bring that here, especially since Greg and Henry Gee are his friends. So I won’t ask for more accomodation, and offer my gratitude and apologies to PZ.
But I do have to respond to KD:
If that’s all you can say, then your “at the drop of a hat” and “even” about grant funding and so forth was misleading. If you don’t know what led to raising the issue or what the full circumstances are, you don’t know enough to present this suggestion of “many” as some sort of reflex or implausible.
I don’t need to refer back to my arguments. First, I don’t know Henry Gee. Second, as AJ Milne pointed out, part of what made it so shocking was that I and others hadn’t heard that before in any similar circumstances. Brace yourself…
…
I’ve had many arguments with Jewish people. Never once has anyone said anything like Gee did.
This is way too broad. Feeling what way? What are “the same sentiments”? I’m not denying that antisemitism exists. I was the one who brought it up on the original thread, to Gee. He said specific things, in a specific context, to and about specific people and groups. If he had pointed to evidence, or if his accusations of “vilification” ever made sense, it would be different. There are antisemitic people, and there is discrimination.
You must be joking here. Or you’re really not paying attention.
Word salad.
Whatever this last sentence is supposed to mean (and if I’m reading it right, it’s plainly true), you misread what I was saying. This may be my fault – I was on my way out the door, late, and rushed. I was not talking about “the Jewish people.” I was talking about people at the actual event I attended and those who agree with them – people who willfully ignore or try to justify the Palestinian situation but will talk about another contemporary horror in those terms (you have to read the link to appreciate it). When I thought about it, though, I’m not sure there were any such people there. Those whose views I know weren’t necessarily the most enthusiastic about the Darfur thing, and probably just going along to appease, and I don’t know all of the views of the more enthusastic people. So possibly no hypocrites (though certainly other criticisms to make of some people).
Again, far too broad to be meaningful. I have no idea what “sides” you’re talking about. I’m talking about people who have expressed views and acted and the consistency of their ideas, concerns, and actions.
Oh, good grief.
Wow.
Suffering and oppression have been and are the reality of many people’s lives. Others (and often the suffering and oppressed themselves) think doing something about that is an important way to spend their lives.
Yeah, get over it, victims of genocide, discrimination, and abuse.
*eyeroll*
First, you need to form a better understanding of the paychological effects of that kind of humiliation and violence, and not just on those who experience them directly. These are not a choice. Really. I’m trying not to get angry here, but it’s difficult. Second, it’s not a blood-feud thing – we all need to keep this in our consciousness. We need to try to understand – to the extent that that’s possible, and fortunately it isn’t 100% – so that we can see the signs and try to avert it. We need to be aware and vigilant in the present, and that historical knowledge is necessary for this.
oo! 60 or 90-minute? Both delicious (the 120’s too over the top for me). In fact, I’m on my way out the door for a pint or 4 of the 60 down the street.
Interact virtually with you-all later.
To be plain: if you’re comparing all of these other cases to the Gee incident, you’re arguing that you know that all of these other mentions of antisemitism were as unnecessary, unwarranted, and inappropriate as Gee’s was on this occasion. I don’t think that’s what you wnat to do. If you’re simply saying that some Jewish people in your experience have raised the issue of antisemitism in relation to their lives, then I don’t see the relevance. And that’s not all you said, really.
Ladies, gentlemen, naked bunnies, and cuttlefish (in no particular order),
We are living in interesting times. Do you remember this recent story? You probably didn’t know it in that much detail in the first place, so just read it again.
Then get this. Read it carefully, perhaps a few times over, to let it really sink in.
With your head still spinning (something that probably can’t happen to cuttlefish or other cephalopods, I’m afraid), let this spin in front of your eyes. And then, after being warned that several things are wrong with the snout, scroll down to read the text and finally follow the link to here.
I don’t think there’s evidence for a featherless snout so far, but I haven’t read the paper yet. Anyway, have a nice weekend. :-) I intend to spend mine in a mild endorphine rush :-)
Anchiornis is a troodontid, closely related to the birds, but apparently still less to than Archaeopteryx.
==================================================
Chemistry anecdotes! Yay!
Palynologists routinely use HF to dissolve rocks and leave nothing but the pollen or spores, and there are some at the University of Vienna, so I was once told about one who once asked her colleagues if she could take a little bottle of HF on a plane and expected a positive answer. (This was after all when liquids weren’t banned on planes yet.)
In school, the chemistry teacher once told us he had been destroying some KCN when he noticed the smell…
(No idea what the fuck potassium cyanide was doing in a school. I do think it was stored in the poison cupboard, though.)
And the explosion stories from the chemical institutes of the University of Vienna… I was told about someone who worked there and once heard an explosion. His first thought, as a WWII veteran, was “artillery – it’s war again”. And indeed, there was a casualty, unless I’m confusing this with another explosion.
I was also told that, whenever chemists get together, sooner or later the conversation becomes an endless list of the most spectacular accidents. We seem to be confirming this right now. =8-)
Anybody who has been in the field for a while has some stories. I shudder at a colleague where I worked earlier…
Fixed it for me.
@Sili #300,
It’s nothing spectacular. If you have a reaction likely to give off reactive gas(es) or if you are working with gases like HCl (obvious example), then simple, damp pH paper taped in a couple of locations throughout the hood can tell you if you have leaks/insufficient scrubbing.
I’m wracking my brain to try to remember what I used for phosgene (it went from colourless to orange, might just have been a pH indicator) but I’m buggered if I can (side effects of many martinis).
When working with acidic gases (or gases that dissolve to give acids) I always removed the metal scaffolding at the back of my hood and any metal items. Kept them from corroding.
Depending on the reaction I think a suitable scrubber on the reaction is a good idea, prevents nasty gases getting in all the wrong places. Like someone’s lungs. And I have a thing for scrubbers.
Louis
Chemists are the only group of (non-emergency services) people I know that run towards an explosion or fire.
In my experience they then usually say something like “that’s not a fire. I was working with diethyl zinc one time when…”*
Louis
*This is one instance of a much larger phenomenon known as “the chemistry dick”. When two chemists encounter one another there is a distinct subset of chemists who will whip out their respective chemistry dicks to see who has the larger one. It’s very funny to observe at conferences during the Q and A sessions. There’s always someone just waiting to ask a killer question, and it’s always funny to see some smug git get taken down a peg or two. Questioner or answerer. Don’t get me wrong, the chemistry is fun and the main purpose, but the chemistry dick bingo helps things trot nicely along too.
And on the subject of spectacular accidents:
Back when I was an undergrad one of the postgrads (a guy who had the nickname “Tim Nice But Dim”, tells you all you need to know) managed to blow out the corner of the noble gas/fluorine chem lab by accidentally making a little XeO3 when he meant to only make XeF6.
The explosion split a 2 inch thick, welded shut, zinc bomb reactor vessel open like a sub standard Coke can. The expanding gases took out the oven it was in, and the debris made a lovely hole in the corner of the lab, bricks and glass everywhere. Luckily it happened at about 2 am.
This wasn’t topped until many years later, working at Big Name Pharma That Shall Remain Nameless, when some of our American colleague managed to blow the (sealed shut and locked) lid off a 1000L reactor by neglecting to pay attention to the exotherm caused by dissolving a simple amine into dichloromethane. Luckily the building was designed to cope, and the lid took off through the roof. I should point out the “lid” weighs about the same as a small car. Company legend (that I find implausible) holds that the lid has….{dramatic pause}….Never Been Found!
Louis
I have been reading with interest. Louis–could you explain to me “chemistry dick” in more detail? I don’t get the metaphor, but I would like to. What is the sort of thing one would say in such an encounter that might be the equivalent of whipping it out?
P.S. While I remember. “Tim Nice But Dim” is also the only person I know to get a serious HF burn. He blew up a plastic flask by over-pressurising it whilst working with BrF5 (which on contact with moisture releases HF). A few fragments of flask ran across his cheeks (he was leaning into the hood to see why the gas had stopped flowing) when the plastic flask popped. Luckily someone in the lab was on TimWatch and administered the antidote gel asap. He got away with an enormous bollocking for being incredibly dumb and a face like a Union Jack for a few weeks.
Lucky.
Louis
And once again, Greg couldn’t find the point if it was painted on the broad side of a barn. Too funny.
Zuska is good; her first mansplaining thread had me in tears of dramatic irony.
And, in other news, an example of NSFW failure.
MrFire @ 260: After thinking about it for a while, I think it was Taiwan beer. But I can’t swear to it, as it was about ten years ago and the little Houston restaurant where I had it is no longer even in business anymore.
Well, folks, I was hair-on-fire busy at work today, and thus got way behind on this thread. I’ve only skimmed it, but I recall seeing at least one comment from someone who didn’t like beer, and then had an epiphany.
My similar story is not about myself, but about a high school friend of mine (yes, we drank beer in high school, illegally even!) who hated beer — would tell anyone who’d listen that it was all horse piss — until he changed literally overnight: He had a dream in which he was at a party, drinking beer and liking it. And instantly after that, he became the biggest beerhound I knew. Within a couple of years, he was homebrewing.
Who knew changing a fundamental taste was as easy as dreaming?
well, I’m perfectly aware that Taiwan =/= China… but it was a Chinese restaurant and I couldn’t remember the beer’s name. Sorry to all nationalists of one kind or the other.
Antiochus Epiphanes #317,
Oh you know the usual insecure jousting comments when two people meet and decide they don’t like each other and want to engage in an act of one upmanship that makes you think the last common ancestor with chimps (and perhaps stag beetles) was not that long ago! ;-) It’s “dick measuring” for chemists.
I suppose examples would be the not-so-casual mentions of superior supervisors (working for a Nobel Laureate for example), numbers of papers, project successes, awesome job offers etc. Note: not all conversations about these subjects are like this but the minority subset that are are hilarious to the informed observer. It’s jousting/oneupmanship for chemists/scientists.
The best examples are Q and A sessions. I remember one talk from an external speaker during my postgrad stint where some postdoc trying to make a name for himself asked an obviously pointed technical question (the question wasn’t that good chemically, but was delivered in a tone of “Ha! This will get you!”) and the auditorium went quiet. The speaker smiled a little smile and calmly said “I thought someone might ask that so I prepared a slide…”. The questioner was very deflated. We had to chalk that one up to an Away Win for the speaker on our wall chart!
Louis
David Marjanović #311
Every American of a certain age knows that dinosaurs were green.
BTW People, all bang and flash stories are for entertainment use only. They are not intended to establish the size of my chemistry dick, which is very small. I belong to a different sect of the chemistry dick fraternity. We hold that one should be humble, self deprecating even, about one’s chemistry dick. Mine is small.
But my e.e.* is large. ;-)
Louis
*Enantiomeric excess. The hallmark of a good stereoselective reaction. Sorry, this is a chemistry joke. And not a good one. I’ll get my coat and put the martini down.
around here, they still are.
All made in my folks basement during high school:
Mercury fulminate: Easy, you can make it in a mason jar.
Nitrogen Triiodide: Can be detonated by touching with a feather. Word up.
Phospogene: Made by boiling white phosphorous under sodium hydroxide. Explodes on contact with air. Mix with hydrogen gas and you have exploding soap bubbles. How cool is that? The book said not to do it “much” because “small” amounts of phosgene were produced.
White phosphorous. I had to distill my own from red phosphorous. We were very poor.
I wondered why the old drugstore had picric acid in a corked bottle. I remember yellow stains on my hands. I could never get it to detonate, even after dessication.
BS
I can understand that certain people dislike beer. I detest the taste and odor of gin and you won’t find a juniper bush growing in my yard.
Probably true, but I also have a somewhat different take.
1) Hilarious. He’s getting a complete taste of his own “This thread/post isn’t about “____” medicine.
2) It’s even funnier that he is, given that I thought it was a laughable position when it was his. She wrote the post. She posted the post. I liked the post. I agreed with the post. The comment thread needn’t rigidly adhere to the argument of the post, pro or con. The comment thread is about the related thoughts, observations, knowledge,… of the commenters. What is it with this controlling, proprietary attitude toward comment threads?
3) It strikes me as a bit odd that someone who just wrote a post about the objectification of an athlete is so averse to any discussion of said athlete’s politics. (A saint or a devil? WTF?) It’s a bit like, “No, she’s the object of my argument about objectification! Don’t bring in that irrelevant shit about what she actually thinks or says!”*
*FTR, I have no idea whether asshole was correct about her politics or not.
‘Tis (@325):
A little nostalgia leaking over from the earworm thread?
This is the intersection of dinosaurs, music, and childhood nostalgia for me. In print, this was my dinosaur lore.
Blind Squirrel #328,
Oh nice! Nitrogen triiodide, when still wet, painted into a friend’s dormroom keyhole and allowed to dry over a weekend is very good. The resulting explosion splits the lock and causes an almighty bang…erm…allegedly. I mean I wasn’t actually there. Big boys done it and run away, Miss. Honest, Miss.
;-)
Louis
@Louis- Thanks for the clarification. We biologists do that too. I thought maybe there was a special kind of jousting that chemists practice.
BS (@328):
Ah, nitrogen triiodide… or what my friends called ammonium triiodid (erroneously, per the all-knowing Wikipedia). Safe as mud… until it dries!
A friendA reprobate acquaintance used to spend library periods lining up tiny dots of the stuff on a table, waiting for it to dry, and then sweeping a long ruler across the line of dots. Sounded like a machine gun.That fellow wasn’t allowed to participate in graduation… but oddly enough, blowing shit up in the school library had nothing to do with it. Seems driving past the location of the academic awards banquet stark naked on the hood of a friend’s car was an even bigger no-no.
The good old days, eh?
BTW, ‘Tis… #329 is apostasy of the highest order!
Oh and BS, if you want picric acid to explode, I’ve always found nice large, dry crystals work best.
Aaaaaaaand MI5 will now be turning up on my doorstep to ask questions.
Brief word of serious, folks: Don’t try any of this at home, it is no longer the 1950s, (or even the 80s or 90s), this shit does not fly anymore. The police take what can only be described as an INCREDIBLY dim view of Recreational Chemistry Sans Licence.
For all the jokes, this stuff does go wrong occasionally too. Having your hands blown off/getting blinded/worse is not unheard of and not as rare as we might like. Some student in the Ukraine (I think) died recently because he liked to perk up the flavour of his gum with citric acid, and one day he got the wrong chemical out of the cupboard, dipped his gum as per usual, and managed to blow his face off. Google is as ever, your friend here.
It’s all fun and games until someone snuffs it.
Louis
I have had xylene poisoning.
My lab is next to a histology teaching lab. Oven* temps had not been checked, and were way to hot for fixing tissue. I could smell something awry, ran next door, and got a big faceful of the vapor when I opened the oven. I got all the students out and pulled the trays before they flashed, but inhaled a tremendous dose.
Three symptoms of xylene poisoning: 1) pretty bad headache, 2) worst back ache I have ever had, 3) strangely, indifference to #1 and #2. Nothing about 18 hours of sleep couldn’t cure.
*You were expecting the word incubator here, no?
“way too hot” dammit.
I don’t want to hear any arguments about this. Facts are facts.
The best alcoholic drink in the world is the mead made by a beekeeper I know.
Since I met him I have almost completely stopped drinking any other alcoholic drink, because they all just taste terrible in comparison. His mead is unbelievably smooth, with no taste of alcohol whatsoever (although it’s usually around 15%). It’s not sweet, it’s not acidic, it’s simply the nectar they must have drunk on Mt. Olympus.
The only problem with it is that it is impossible to stop drinking before you’ve had too much.
Washing a chalkboard with picric acid and watching the chemistry teacher writing amidst a torrent of small explosions is quite funny. Especially since washing the board again just puts the picric acid into solution but doesn’t remove it from the board.
Or so I’ve heard.
@ Antiochus Epiphanes #333,
I suspect it is very common to all groups of scientists. BTW it is definitely not restricted to just male scientists. I have seen ladies with mighty chemistry dicks, waving them like champions. Sadly though, I think it is a cultural affliction inspired by the dumber excesses of certain chaps.
Louis
P.S. Bill @334. Naked hood riding? The man was clearly some species of genius! I wish people did MORE of this kind of thing. The world would, IMO, be a far better place if more people could and did willingly make complete muppets of themselves in comedy ways and laugh about it. But then I freely admit I’m weird, and very, very fond of the odd caper (as in undertaking/adventure, not small green condiment/pizza topping, which I also fond of, but not to the same extent).
@ ‘Tis #339,
Oh now THAT is inspired! It’s not often I come across a piece of chemical lunacy that not only haven’t I thought of, but I wish I *HAD* thought of. If I had a hat on I would doff it. I am thinking of buying a series of hats just so I can doff them.
{Applause}
Louis
Yesterday, I got an application in the mail for the American Chemical Society because as an undergraduate (no) majoring in chemistry (no), I would enjoy their magazines (maybe).
Typing this, it occurs to me that it might have been meant for my son, since only the major would be wrong, then. Before he entered his undergraduate program he legally petitioned to have his name changed to take my first and last name as his middle and last names. He sometimes just goes by my name.
—
It was mentioned much earlier in the subthread, but I object to:
SC,OM. It looks very average to me, and it seems mean to do that. (Even if it is à la mode.)
I don’t even want to think about the total volume of acetone I’ve breathed/absorbed through my skin.
I’m not sure if it was that, or if she was just annoyed that he went to a tangential place right off the bat in the first comment without even acknowledging the topic of the post, or if she saw it as another way to somehow objectify/judge the athlete on something other than her athletic abilities. No clue.
Ring Tailed Lemurian: Drinkable mead? How is this possible? How long does he age it?
BS
Oh wait, I get it. It was a post with a side dose of mansplaining meme, and then it looked like Greg’s comment implied that what he had to say about her politics was more important than what she was saying about objectification, therefore being some mansplaining. I think.
Carlie,
I made a spectacular Rookie Mistake very early in my training. I overheard people in the lab complaining about washing something off their hands and I piped up with a “watch this you bozos!” and proceded to wash the crap “off” my hands with acetone.
It was a kindly lady postdoc who explained to me very gently that I wasn’t washing things “off” so much as “through and into”, and what the fuck was I doing without gloves anyway. I shaped up sharpish!
Mind you, old chemists (not as long ago as you might think) used to wash their hands in benzene to get rid of stuff. Obviously this too was going through the skin. Some of these guys are still around, amazingly!
Louis
So while there are a large number of fellow chemists around, could I maybe get some tips on finding a job? Or interview tips? I’m fresh outta getting my BS and would rather like to be making money.
I find that problem with a Finnish cocktail called Salmari.
Rawnaeris,
Stay out of chemistry!* With GSK and AZ both laying off oodles of staff the pharma job market is super saturated (Both sides of the Atlantic, I’m in the UK).
Depends what you want to do really. I went into synthetic organic/medicinal chem so I know that best. If you, say, wanted to go into the nuclear industry as a fluorine/inorganic chemist, then I could only give you broad ideas.
If it’s a chemistry job you want focus on the technical interview. It is incredibly important, esp in pharma. It really is job dependent, but if you can’t demonstrate some genuine enthusiasm for the science and back that up with a good technical interview, then you’re stuffed. As with all jobs, people want to work with people they *can* work with. Pick up a good book on interview technique and read it cover to cover (I liked “Great Answers to Tough Interview Questions” by Martin John Yate, and “Career Management for Chemists” by John Fetzer).
You get one shot at an interview, so go fully suited and booted, and have an attitude as professional and smart as your suit! Don’t do things like this: one guy I interviewed continually stared at my colleague’s (co-interviewer) tits, addressed all his comments only to me even when answering questions asked by my female colleague. That is a spectacularly bad move.
Louis
* Ok, please don’t. I think it’s a spectacularly rewarding career, but you are unlikely to get paid incredibly well (compared to say your laywer co-grads) and you will work very hard for every penny. These are not necessarily bad things, just ask yourself what you want. If it’s a big mansion and more Ferraris than you can chuck a stick at, then it is unlikely you will find that in chemistry. If it is an intellectually diverse and stimulating career with a good standard of living but some risk (the pharma sector is fluid atm), then chemistry all the way baby!
My comment at Zuska’s is in moderation. In case it disappears:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/oh_no_im_full_of_guinness_youv.php#comment-2253581
(Carlie raises some interesting points below, but I haven’t yet had a chance to respond.)
Of course, in this case, Laden’s comments about her alleged provinciality – whatever the hell that means here – and xenophobia aren’t directly relevant. Unlike, for example, here
http://scienceblogs.com/thusspakezuska/2009/11/can_we_talk_about_science_i_me.php
where Azkyroth’s clearly were, given your first two silly paragraphs and the misrepresentation therein. But I digress….
Ok I am off to bed (no cheering!). Insomnia can’t last forever and I am out of gin for my martinis. Luckily I’m not as think as you drunk I am.
Adios!
Louis
I see Sven was right, Heddle didn’t get banned. Just told off. PZ must sound more serious to me than he does to most others.
Speaking of boating (?) Tis, I got to sail around on the Columbia river aboard the Lady Washington a few years back. Expecting load creaks & cracking sounds I was suprised at how quiet and strong she was.
Blind Squirrel #344
I don’t understand your surprise at “drinkable mead”. Does “mead” mean something else to you?
Anywhere between 6 and 18 months, I think. He once got the bronze medal at a UK Mead competition, but the gold and silver were made in labs. He makes his in a caravan (and his hair is at least 7 foot long). He’s been offered good money, a few times, to go commercial.
I have never had an argument with a Jain. I think I could….
@ Louis: Thank you for the book recommendations, I will look them up on Amazon. I do prefer inorganic to organic. And I do love my chem. When I said I was ready to make money, I meant I’d rather have an income as opposed to my current status of unemployed.
Just to knot this thread, here’s a page that combines explosives, the British and Israel, and breweries.
One of the Adelaide wineries (Tapestry, IIRC) makes mead, and we bought a couple of bottles of it last time we were out that way. Great for camping in cooler weather; warm it up in a saucepan and everything smells of honey and spices while you get yourself good and drunk.
I can only go camping if I drink heavily – otherwise I don’t sleep and get very crabby.
Ring Tailed Lemurian: I was thinking about my own attempts to make mead. All the efforts of hundreds of thousands of bees down the drain.
BS
Oh, and back on the topic of chemistry anecdotes. Here’s a good ‘what not to do’.
Our Chem Club found a (very) old version of the Whoosh bottle experiment. So a few of them along with the stockroom supervisor decided to test it to make sure it would be safe for a demo. It called for a large glass bottle and isopropyl alcohol. Pour some in, and light.
There are a few things wrong with this version.
1) Glass bottle, new plastic is safer.
2) You’re supposed to pour out the excess alcohol.
3) It’s supposed to be done in cool indoors.
What they did:
Decided to test outside. Good idea until you realize that they did it in the middle of a Texas Summer. For those of you not familiar with one, they average 100F for normal temps. They did it on hot concrete. In the glass bottle. The stockroom supervisor lit it. It exploded immediately and violently. He got whisked off to the ER for a deep cut to his wrist. The cops and fire and medics got called out and it was a huge fiasco. I think the glass was found 70+ feet away. And we have a video. Which is how we found out just how lucky the stockroom guy was. On slow-mo, you can see a large piece of glass go sailing over his shoulder at face height. He’s fine, btw. And no one else out there even got a scratch. But my uni will never do that particular experiment again.
Wowbagger #357
Spices? Sacriledge!
They should be putting their hives amongst eucalyptus trees for a genuine Aussie mead!
My friend makes at least half a dozen very different flavoured meads by using honeys made from different plants.
Blind Squirrel #358
Ah, I see. Shame I don’t know his recipe. My friend is quite secretive about it all. (We suspect magic is involved).
My pagan pals all make mead, and several of them make hooch of various types. I gave one of them 3 pounds of lavender buds which she added to strawberries for hooch. Sounded like a capitol plan to me….gawd it was awful!
CNN reports that the missionaries/kidnappers in Haiti and their church have stopped answering questions. The lawyer for the group is suggesting the organizer, Silsby, as a sacrificial lamb.
If the judge is willing to accept a lifetime sentence for Silsby and let the rest go, I suggest that this would be the Christian thing for Silsby to do. (AFAIK, nobody but me is suggesting this.)
I’d like to express solidarity with all the other non-beer-drinkers. Tastes awful, smells worse. Blech! Give me red wine, instead, or something mixed with fruit or orange juice. And Frangelico tastes wonderful, but obviously is not a quaffer’s drink. (Come to that, I make a damn fine honey/pecan liqueur, if I do say so myself!)
I can’t offer anything from personal experience to the Horrible Chemistry theme, but there’s stuff herehttp://pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with/ that is impressive and amusing, even if I don’t understand the nuances. One of my favorite bits: “Ranking my equipment in terms of its shrapneliferousness is not something that’s ever occurred to me, I have to say. It’s safe to assume that any procedure which involves considering which parts of the apparatus I’d prefer to have flying past me will not get much business in my lab, no matter how dashing I might look in a leather suit.”
My grandparents had a “cottage” on a lake in southwestern Michigan. (My parents met at this lake; another story.) I spent at least a month there every summer throughout my childhood. It was the dominant gas corp there and then and we always had an inflatable Sinclair bronto or two around. Always. *nostalgic sigh*
*eyebrows up*
BS @#328 (cont): wow. Much respect.
Me and my buddy Fred across the street made all varieties of gunpowder, with sparkles and colors and bangs and what have you (this would have been mm 8th grade?) but…wow.
Intrigued, I am.
Hey, anybody got any absinthe?
Fuckin-A, get used to it.
what?
Yeah. Flukeroo.
Smart ass. There went your solstice socks. *raspberry*
He’ll have to purloin them now?
#368 – No, I’m in a high tartish snit and I’ve thrown down my OM sock knitting needles.
That’ll show Mr. Get Used To It. *snort*
Sven @ #309
Sven,
I’m not certain what type it was, I’d noticed the Dogfish Head label and the little Cartesian rodent that runs the little Cartesian wheel in my head received a nudge and began to scurry. The light bulb began to flicker to life after I walked away from the refrigerator case with a bit of deja brew. I plan to head back to the store and purchase 1 (one) of each of the varieties on hand. One (1) was a 6 (six, I’m sorry I’m not sure why I’m doing that, I’ll cease and desist.) pack, the other a 4 pack.
The 60’s and 90’s you speak of are IPA? How do they compare to the Stone Ruination, if you’ve had it, and don’t mind my asking?
Ruination is the second IPA I’ve tried, after Stone’s regular IPA brew, and the Ruination has become a bit burdensome on the palate, I enjoyed it for a while, but I think I forgot to limber up the taste buds, and recently had a rather hoppsy-bad night prostrate before the porcelain deity.
Got to sign off, I’ve got a bunch of music to go through, I had been watching the Twilight Zone this afternoon and heard a line that’s been sampled and dropped into a song of my acquaintance. And I can’t recall which band, nor which song. It’s driving me slowly nuts.
The line from the episode “Deaths Head Revisited”: They just heard you offer the apology for all the monsters of our times. “We did as we were told. We functioned as orders. We merely carried out directives from our superiors.”
Good night, one and all.
Ahh. He’s gotten on your wrong side, so it’s yarn over, options reduced, and all the worsted for wear, whether or not he laces the thread with apologies. It’s a familiar pattern.
Bone Oboe, you might want to check the Wikipedia references on it.
Miki Z, stop being a knitwit!
John Morales, many thanks.
I probably would’ve been up another couple of hours hunting through a heap of MP3s for naught. I don’t have that album anymore, it disappeared some time ago.
Thanks to John, this has been the shortest Song Sample Identification Bug I’ve ever had up my butt. And much shorter than the evening I spent, in middle school, trying to recall what manner of critter Riki-tiki-tavi was. It came to me about 3 a.m.
Fuckin’ mongoose. That was a school night as too. Nothing like cracking into Kipling on 3 hours sleep.
Apropos of nothing I’ve written above, here’s some Billy Connolly:
Yeah, yeah, I’ll cast off now.
MikiZ – Yes, he’s ribbed me once to often! One more comment like that and I’m gonna frog him.
Patricia,
I am undone by 376!
I’m still working on getting consistent tension on my yarn. My wife pointed out that both of my bamboo no. 6 needles are bent and suggested that maybe I pull too hard.
Bone Oboe (@374):
Maybe it’s just that clip, but Connolly suddenly strikes me as a Scottish version of Lewis Black. I think it’s something about the hands.
MikiZ – Yes, tension can make you pull too hard. Once those needles start to get bent the only remedy is to go to a bigger size or do a double wrap.
Heh, Bill. Been checking out Lewis Black.
This clip seems apropos here.
I was skimming and at first thought that was in reference to the Baptist kidnappers. Then when I realized I was wrong, I thought well, still stands – “We were only doing what we thought God wanted us to do”. Then I thought well, that kind of works for every Godly atrocity, doesn’t it?
Ack, Carlie, I should’ve noticed that.
Yeah, the “Nuremberg Defense”.
So this is totally off-topic to anything that anyone has posted so far: I’ve never been on any of the endless threads, so I don’t know how this usually works. Do people just talk about anything?
Because I wanted to ask you guys for some good reading to learn more about history, especially western history, since you all seem like such knowledgeable group of people. I feel like I’m lacking in a lot of European history that is relevant to some of the discussions on here.
For example, I don’t know much about the Spanish Inquisition or The Crusades. I do have cursory knowledge about those events and could look up stuff on Wikipedia, but I want to have a good comprehensive look at western history.
(I was also reminded of my lack in historical knowledge by someone who stopped by a while ago and asked why people rarely/never bring up the Spanish and Latin American rulers’ connection to religion esp. the Catholic Church, and someone said jokingly said they didn’t realize Spain had history after Columbus and roughly outlined history as starting in Mesopotamia->Greece->England->USA, which basically applies to the way I was taught history.)
I can’t usually sign in to comment at work because the sign in button doesn’t exist there (it might be due to the old version of IE the company has that don’t allow employees the authorization to update), but I can come back and read any comments addressed to me. Thanks in advance =]
I’ve just been reading through the comments of posts from the last week to find a short comment I found pretty funny (was probably a sarcastic one) and made my day, but I don’t remember what it was, or which post it was from. Sad day.
jaybgee, I’m one of the most uneducated people posting here, and I suspect more knowledgeable people will suggest specific sources; but:
Wikipedia should be a beginning way-point, not a destination.
Most articles have many references, and if you follow those, they lead to further references.
Very soon, you get to some serious stuff.
My Pow-wow with SC continues: en garde!
Why? What purpose will anger have? I do a tremendous respect for your opinions and stances, SC (even if you may not feel the same for mine), and I am trying to discuss my perceptions and observations with you. If you think my views are wrong, teach me. Without getting angry. Please?
Sorry, SC; I should have been clearer (I was wrong in assuming that threads of a conversation could be picked up just like that). “That way” and “Same sentiments” referred to the feeling of being a victim of anti-Semitism under given circumstances, a feeling shared by Henry and other individuals in my earlier examples.
I am sorry if my wordings have been misleading, as you say. In my examples, I do know what prompted the discussions and what the general circumstances were, and under those circumstances and for those particular issues, anti-Semitism as the sole cause seemed unlikely. But – you are right – that I didn’t (couldn’t) probe deep enough to understand exactly what raised the specter of anti-Semitism under those specific circumstances. Therefore, I accept your rebuke that it was inappropriate of me to bring up my observations in the way I did.
But… But, if you don’t know Henry Gee, then – by your reasoning – you shouldn’t have commented at all on Henry’s accusation of anti-Semitism, because you couldn’t have known what or how exactly he felt when he said what he said. Am I misunderstanding your reaction? Please tell me.
You mentioned:
I know you weren’t. :)
Ah, I think I understand it now. Please correct me if I am wrong. When Henry accused certain people of vilifying him because he was Jewish, he should have provided evidence in support thereof, which he didn’t, and that is what you objected to, right? If OTOH you, say, personally knew Henry, you might have understood the reasons why he felt slighted in that specific context, and then you would feel differently about it, is that correct?
No, SC, I am neither joking, nor being inattentive. I am just trying to maintain the perspective of a written discussion. If you and I were sitting face to face, a lot of these words would be unnecessary, and the discussion could be more focused.
How so? In the context of the existence of anti-Semitism in different parts of the world, the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestine, as well as the said conflict’s repercussions on the lives of American Jewry, is my statement falsely concocted? When you said:
you may not be “talking about the Jewish people” (as you said), but I absolutely am. I have met and talked to Jewish individuals who insist that the Palestine-Israel conflict is instigated and maintained solely by Palestine at the behest of the Arab world. Would you tell me that this is not hypocrisy of a kind? And that is the reason why I feel that (I quote my earlier statements) “…the reality for the Jewish people isn’t, or rather cannot be, a simple and straightforward us-versus-them or finger-pointing reality” (which you appear to agree with) and that “there have been missteps on all sides”. Again, I apologize for not making the statement clearer. By all “sides”, I meant all parties to this conflict.
Sorry, SC, the expression “good grief” never fails to bring up Charlie Brown in my mind! Did you also do an eyeroll? Pardon my lapse into levity (and my naïveté) and roll your eyes if you must, but I really feel that way. Just as between Israel and Palestine, we have a similar and similarly endless cycle of violence going on between my country and our neighbor on the Western side, a country carved out of my own by the same British Raj.
Absolutely true. I can’t disagree. I have known people who have suffered trauma and great losses, even in my own family. But… I don’t know; perhaps I am not putting it through in the right way. What I meant (in my earlier remark about disagreeing with you) was that focusing almost exclusively on suffering and oppression cannot be a healthy way of living, can it? I mean, there has to be something positive in life, something to look forward to, no? Those that have experienced the suffering and oppression would want to work towards ensuring that others never have to undergo the same trauma, wouldn’t they? But is the best way to do that, the constant chanting of ‘we are victims’, to the extent that children in many observant Orthodox Jewish families are routinely told how they have been historically oppressed starting right from their days in Egypt because they are the ‘God’s Chosen Ones’ and that the entire world without is one big cesspool of anti-Semitism? You tell me.
Wow! That’s a nice strawman you’ve got there. Now stick some pins into it. Did I ever say that?
Why eyeroll? Did I make a wrong statement?
Thank you, SC. I accept your admonition as the voice of reason. You are absolutely right here. My views may be partly wrong, partly naïve, but my intentions are honorable – and I continue to learn.
PS jaybgee, you might find the Mosse Lectures of interest, though they focus on modern history.
@John Morales (384): Well, it’s just that I didn’t know where to start, and I wanted a book to read. I was hoping for something like Dawkins’ TGSOE (which covers a lot of main ideas in a very readable way) but for history instead of evolutionary biology.
Poor thing.
That’s how your inner pharyngulization starts, innocently enough, with wanting to learn more about something some of the scholary types here discuss somewhere and you feel inadequate and want to catch up.
You are now on the path from which there is no turning back, soon the first box full of Geology or Embryology books from Amazon will arrive, and your life will change forever :-)
Give it a couple of years….
jaybgee,
I don’t read a lot of history, but my wife recommends “A History of Modern Europe” by Merriman for a sweeping view. If you’re interested in specific events there are almost certainly better books on those, this is a “one stop shopping” kind of book.
Kausik Datta,
I can’t speak to SC’s eyeroll, but for me:
is eyerolling because “Jewish people in general” have not shown any particular “amazing intellectual capacity” any more or less than “Norwegians in general”, “Telegu in general”, “Han Chinese in general”, “Kikuyu in general”, etc.
Exceptionalism rarely survives scrutiny for any group in which membership is both immutable and unchosen.
@383: It’s not quite what you asked for, but MacCulloch’s Reformation is highly recommended
On a more serious note, have a look at Geoffrey Blainey’s “A very short history of the world” or at this one by WH McNeill, but I haven’t read it myself.
The Wiki link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Western_civilization
jaybgee,
Good on you for wanting to know more history and, if I may, a gentle word of advice. You are not going to find the whole story in any one book or the denizens of any one university. For instance, The History of the English Speaking Peoples by Winston S Churchill covers a massive sweep in both time and space but it is very much the explanation of one man, with a very specific point of view.
So, the first thing would be to go for readablity – recommendations follow – and then pick a topic which interests you. You will end up with a glorious patchwork of knowledge but then that’s all any of us has – professional historians included. Don’t miss out on the great series now on DVD – Jacob Bronowski, Carl Sagan, Kenneth Clarke’s Civilisation and the work Jim Al-Khalili is currently doing on the history of science – not sure how much of that is available yet.
For readability, then, almost anything by Barbara Tuchman, Lisa Jardine or Simon Schama. A couple by each of those and you would have had a very good experience and have a framework on which to build even more learning.
Whatever you do – enjoy it and good luck!
tee hee! (That’s flavored with liquorice and ammonium chloride, for you chemistry enthusiasts.)
I hear the Fisherman’s Friend version of the drink (Fisu) is popular nowadays. Maybe that would do as a (poor) substitute for Salmari in the diaspora.
Louis #349
Your footnote has the ring of a much wider truth -I substituted ‘Engineering’ for ‘Chemistry’ for instance. I suspect it may hold for many here?
Is there some sort of ‘Bodysnatcher’ invasion in progress? My esteemed partner, Miss M, who I have known for 40 years (married twice and divorced once) has just wondered if she can justify buying new shoes. SHE HAS NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE!
What should I do?
Look for large beanpods? Run around screaming “They’re here already! You’re next! You’re next!”? And don’t go to sleep!
SteveV,
We need more information. Which has she never done before: ponder buying new shoes or try to justify it?
Miki Z
It’s the justify part that really creeps me out – formerly she has been known as the Cornish Imelda Marcos.
Perhaps she’s just unwell?
Millions of pounds worth of street drugs, and only one small safety officer between me and riches… – Louis
But unless you already had the right connections, you wouldn’t be able to sell them – and the “values” the authorities like to quote always depend on dividing the stuff up into the amounts a user would buy from a street dealer, multiplying the number of these end-of-the-supply-chain amounts by their street-corner price, and then doubling the result just to be on the safe side. Not to mention the fact that even if you had the right connections, you’d very likely wind up dead at the hands of a “business rival”!
jaygbee,
for an overview of world history, I’d recommend two (in English):
1. Concise Atlas of World History
If, like me, you like to learn from maps…
(this happens to be the book I have in my toilets: every time I go there, I look at a couple of maps at random. If you go there as regularly as I do…)
2. The Rise of the West: A History of the Human Community
A good example of the grand narrative. A tad Eurocentric but a fascinating read.
SteveV,
My wife has gone through this. Where before she thought little of buying new shoes, it’s been years now since she bought a pair of anything not meant for running.
Perhaps Miss M simply has enough shoes?
Talking of chemistry accidents, of course the really big one was Bhopal: methyl isocyanate is pretty nasty stuff in the quantities released. People are still suffering and dying from that one a quarter-century later, dangerous chemicals continue to leach from the site, the compensation paid has been derisory, and no-one has yet been prosecuted. What larks! (Just to be clear, this is an anti-corporate-privilege not an anti-chemist point: our long, relatively pain-free lives, and our future hopes of dealing with resource shortages and climate change depend absolutely on the work of chemists, among others.)
Miki Z .
Panic over – alien invasion false alarm.
Miss M has bought the shoes.
(Jan Jansen from Amsterdam if anyone is interested)
I would *Yawn* if I dared.
God is in Heaven and alls well with the World.
jaybgee,
I endorse the recommendation of William McNiel’s History of Western Civilization. He’s a good writer, something rare among historians. The book is a summary but has a bibliography for specific reading on almost all the topics McNiel touches on. After reading History of Western Civilization I recommend McNiel’s The Rise of the West, but you have to know something about Western history before you can fully appreciate this book. It was written in refutation of Oswald Spengler’s The Decline of the West, a famous book which I do not recommend until you have a good background in Middle Eastern and European history.
If you’re stuck on a desert island for several weeks you could read Will and Ariel Durant’s eleven volume The Story of Civilization. The Durants intended to go from the beginning of writing to the 20th Century but only got as far as the Napoleonic period before they died. I’ve read the whole series but it took me several years to do so.
An interesting book on how civilizations arise is Jared Diamond’s Guns, Germs and Steel. It’s not a history but a look at how environmental factors influence civilizations.
One more on the chemistry theme. When I was a fairly new graduate student, 30+ years ago (side note to Alan B.@299: I’m a “ravening young wolf” of 55, though I did only get married in 1998 – we did things in the logical order: have a child, then start living together full-time, then get married!), one of my contemporaries, and a FOAF (though I didn’t like him), a grad student in chemistry, got expelled from the university and sent to prison for diverting chemicals into manufacturing various exotic psychoactive chemicals – more for fun than profit, I believe. He was a brilliant chemist I understand, but chemistry’s loss was software engineering’s gain, and after coming out he set up his own business in that line and when I last hear, was doing very well.
KG, how did you end up getting mentioned for computer programs in “The blind watchmaker” when you did chemistry ?
:-)
Or just get a tan….
Just a test
failed
try again
Try again
Rorschach,
No, I wasn’t a chemistry grad student, I was studying artificial intelligence. He was my contemporary in the sense that we were the same age, and at the same stage of our careers. The Blind Watchmaker mention stems from a postdoc in a zoology department, modeling animal behaviour.
Quite a few purls among those puns.
On the subject of chem jobs and Big Pharma check out Derek Lowe. He’s an excellent writer and far as I can tell talented chemist. I deplore a good deal of his politics – he’s one of those who must not be named. And he’s utterly wrong on AGW, which is a sad to see in a chemist.
For ‘chemistry dick’ check out his Things I Won’t Work With tag.
I’ve just read Lowe’s Things I Won’t Work With posts which Sili mentioned in #409. I’m glad I decided on one of the liberal arts as a career.
I want to have a good comprehensive look at western history. – jaybgee
I’d recommend, if you can get them, a series of 4 Penguin historical atlases by Colin McEvedy:
The New Penguin Atlas of Ancient History,
The New Penguin Atlas of Medieval History,
The New Atlas of Modern History (to 1815),
The New Penguin Atlas of Recent History (from 1815).
These all cover Europe (except the far north) and the non-European areas around the Mediterranean; the first two cover more of western Asia as well, while the third intersperses a few world maps to show European colonisation.
McEvedy, who died before he could update the third of the series, wasn’t a professional historian, but as he says, most professionals concentrate on one century or even one generation, often in one country. Not everything in these atlases accords with recent research, but they are immensely informative and entertaining, and even taking the four together, quite short. He also did
The Penguin Atlas of African History (rather out of date as published in 1975) and
The Penguin Atlas of North American History. One warning: Atlases inevitably draw sharp lines around political and cultural entities that were not necessarily there!
For western history since early modern times, I recommend Fernand Braudel’s Civilisation and Capitalism, 15th-18th Century (three large volumes, focused on the economy, originally in French but there’s an English translation), or if you want something briefer (you probably do!), John Darwin’s After Tamerlane: The Rise and Fall of Global Empires, 1400-2000. Both these focus on “the west”, but put it in a global context which indicates (this may be partly my interpretation) that it’s “rise” wasn’t a result of some fundamental difference between Europe and the other mass societies of Eurasia, which are often wrongly seen as unchanging and stagnant, but of a few specific geographical and technological advantages, leveraged by cunning and ruthlessness into global dominance and exploitation, which in turn fuelled the industrial revolution.
roughly outlined history as starting in Mesopotamia->Greece->England->USA – jaybgee
They left out Rome!
;-)
Which reminds me: if you can spare the time, read (the full version of) Edward Gibbon’s Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. Published in the 1790s this is obviously long out of date both in its focus on individual rulers and many of its “facts”, but is far more wide-ranging than the title suggests (it covers the 2nd to 15th centuries, and all states that had anything to do with the Roman and Byzantine Empires), very enjoyable, and in particular, puts the boot into the Christians in a most amusingly understated way. I particularly enjoyed his discussion of when miracles stopped happening; the descriptions of internecine fights between Christians over obscure theological points; and the way he chides ancient historians for having failed to notice that darkness covered the world and the dead left their graves in hundreds when Jesus was crucified!
Rorschach’s mention of William H. McNeill reminds me of his Plagues and Peoples, which gives an entirely different perspective to the usual histories of wars and economies: the role of epidemic disease in history. And for yet another angle, Arnold Pacey’s Technology in World Civilisation: A Thousand Year History, about the spread of technological developments across Eurasia and eventually beyond.
p.s. to #412. As a companion piece, you should of course seek out Edward Empire’s Decline and Fall of the Roman Gibbon ;-)
I have never had an argument with a Jain. I think I could…. – SC,OM
I’m sure you could, SC! The Jain interpretation of ahimsa is so strict that it is quite impossible to follow its precepts fully if you engage in any sort of manual labour. Monks, nuns, and a rich minority who try to follow the rules completely depend on laypeople who “do the dirty work”, and there are many essential occupations that even the latter are not allowed to follow, so in a sense, the whole Jain community necessarily relies on non-Jains to allow them to follow their religion. To many westerners, at any rate, this looks hypocritical.
However, given the Jain strictures on “verbal violence”, you might find that Jains would refuse to argue with you! (But then by refusing to argue, they might be said to be doing violence to you…)
Tin tetraiodide! Sniny orange crystals! Very pretty indeed, as is their solution in (I think) toluene, which I got on my right hand about 9 years ago. For some time the palm wasn’t watertight (under pressure, blood plasma or something came out at certain spots). That’s long gone, but there’s still an area with thickened skin. That’s not visible when I haven’t scratched it (unless you’re into hand-reading), but often I have.
Mouth-pipetting hasn’t been over for that long either, I’ve still read books that explain you can determine if something is an organic magnesium compound by its bitter taste, and I was told (by a professor who was almost grumpy that this wasn’t done any longer) about the wet-chemistry detection of sodium – why, you pour some uranium salt or other in your solution, and if you get a yellow precipitate, there’s sodium in it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh man, what an addictive blog. I have to stop now, or I’ll spend the rest of the weekend (nights included) reading and laughing in disbelief! My jaw joints already hurt!
Excerpts:
Azides of anything blow up when you look at them too hard. Lead azide is used as the trigger for airbag inflation…
And then comes the part about shrapneliferousness.
And then comes…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
O_o
“The Decline of the West”? That’s how it got translated? The original title is Der Untergang des Abendlandes, “the downfall of the occident” which will set like the sun! The extra drama is entirely intended, as the foreword makes clear – the first sentence is “in this book the first ever attempt is made to predict history”.
I’ve read an abridged version. It’s very interesting, Spengler had enormous knowledge (and not just about European history – he knew full well about the tradition of atheism in India, for instance). He tried to find all manner of cyclical patterns in history and shored up lots of support for each.
Not that it’s likely to ever happen, but ever since I read it the first time, I’ve wanted to write a sort of reappraisal… because some of the patterns that repeated two or three times have very clearly come to an end, for the first time ever. For instance, the current rise in godlessness would have baffled Spengler to no end; he detected a periodic waxing and waning throughout the last 3,000 years, but the current trend is way off the charts. Occasionally, something is new under the sun.
re Dogfish Head IPAs: Almost certainly the 60-minute in the 6-pack and the 90 in the 4-pack. If Stone’s Ruination is a bit too much, you’re likely to feel the same way about the 90-minute (I do, usually…maybe as a nightcap sometimes). The 60 is almost perfectly balanced, crisp, bitter, hoppy as hell, yum yum yum
(full disclosure: almost noon and still recovering from last night’s indulgence in the yum yum)
*eyebrows up*
Turns out that blood plasma, lymph, and interstitial fluid are all one big well-mixed pool, so it doesn’t really matter what you call it.
But if fluid was leaking out, what was getting in?
Oh. Sorry for duplicating the link to Things I Won’t Work With (not that it hurts). I’d missed the reference upthread.
Knockgoats, cleanup in aisle W, Knockgoats.
Of course we all realize that the nitrogen oxide mentioned is the trioxide. Nitric oxide is colorless.
A few years back a worker at the U of Minnesota got a couple of drops of dimethyl mercury on her gloved hand. Killed her dead on the spot.
I forgot to mention copper azide. Has to be prepared under incandesent light. Shorter wavelenghts detonate it. I prepared it once at night.
BS
Here’s what I learned yesterday:
Drosophila has the same entire set of insulin sending-and-receiving genes as we do, and its functionss are identical (secretion signalled by increased “blood” glucose, cells with insulin receptors ramp up glucose transport and storage, amino acid uptake and protein synthesis, and triglyceride uptake and fat storage, etc.) to those in mammals.
This means that microscopic pre-Cambrian worms did exactly the same. Pretty cool.
Your Inner Worm.
(btw, that’s my guess for the theme of PZ’s upcoming book–a Shubin-like thing but with human development and physiology compared to various inverts to illustrate the longtime conservation and/or modification of shared-inherited molecular pathways. you saw it here first.)
That will teach me not to post before researching thoroughly. Here is the real story of dimethyl mercury. My face is red.
BS
We see too little of dr* Sid Schwab here, so allow me to pimp him pimping Barney Frank.
*surgeon, not ph.d. – I know some here (and elsewhere) are sensitive about the title.
Also a Vietnam vet. Speaking of which, what happened to BrokenSoldier,OM?
The question is, did you use it as an impressive party trick? Or perhaps as a gimmick to create your own cult? (See the Amazing Marjanović, who has the miracle of instant stigmata on one hand!)
David Marjanović #416
Spengler rejected traditional unilinear accounts and causal explanations of historical developments. Instead he saw cyclic patterns in history. “Each culture has its own new possibilities of self-expression which arise, ripen, decay and never return.”1
The central theme in The Decline of the West is that all higher cultures go through a life cycle analogous to a living organism, from birth to maturation to inevitable decline. Spengler also used the analogy of four seasons: the spring (birth and infancy), summer (youth), fall (maturity), and winter (old age and decay). He claimed there were eight cultures which were self-contained and have a distinctive “soul”: the Egyptian, the Chinese, the Ancient Semitic (Babylonian), the Indian, the Magian (roughly Arabic), the Apollonian or Greco-Roman, the Faustian or Western, and Mayan. Each of these cultures had an identical life-cycle lasting many centuries.
Spengler held a cultural revealed itself in art, mathematics, philosophy, sciences, music, drama, and poetry, all of which reflect the essence of of that particular culture. “There are several number-worlds as there are several Cultures. We find an Indian, an Arabian, a Classical as Western type of mathematical thought, and corresponding with each, a type of number – each type fundamentally peculiar and unique, an expression of a specific world-feeling…”2 Each of the civilizations had its special driving idea (Urphänomen). Western culture is characterized by its restless thrust toward the infinite. In architecture this is seen in Gothic cathedrals and in painting in the use of depth perspective, parallel lines which meet in infinity. Spengler believed that his own era, Faustian, had reached its last stage. Signs of cultural decay were, among other things, atonal music, art produced for oversensitive connoisseurs, manipulation of the public opinion by mass media, imperialism, and “Caesarism,” a universal will to power which breaks the dictatorship of plutocracy and its political ally democracy. According to Spengler, Russia did not belong to Western culture. A Faustian soul looks upward, a Russian soul toward the horizon. Thus Russian Urphänomen is the boundless steppe.
Spengler’s views are both influential and controversial. They’re also, for those of us living in modern times, depressing.
1Spengler, Oswald. The Decline of the West. Ed. Arthur Helps and Helmut Werner. Trans. Charles F. Atkinson. New York: Oxford University Press, 1991. P. ii.
2Ibid p. 12.
Sven @ #417
Thanks, I plan on taking both out for a spin.
I had cultivated a taste for the Ruination and enjoyed it for a while, but an “expensive beer” hiatus took it’s inevitable toll. Enjoying strong beer, for me at least is a perishable skill.
Bill Dauphin, OM @ #378
Billy Connolly is great, I’d first seen him on an HBO special hosted by Whoopi Goldberg back in 1990, (Part 1 of 4) and then on another HBO special called “Pale Blue Scottish Person.” (Part 1 of 6).
And then there’s the special, which I hadn’t seen, the one that the “Sea Life” clip seems to have been from; “Was it Something I said?” (Part 1 of 11).
Like Lewis Black, Hicks, Pryor and Carlin; Billy Connolly makes me laugh to the point where there’s nearly no air exchange. All I can manage is a bit choked whistle-y squeaking, usually followed by a horrible braying inhalation followed by another round of suffocating whistle-squeak.
I think countless hours of playing Civilization (II, III and IV) was good preparation for the basic ideas of Guns, Germs and Steel. The importance of geography and climate to a civilizaton seems obvious to even amateur players.
Needless to say, reality is much, much more complicated. If they ever come out with Civ V maybe they should incorporate some ideas of the book. Like having crops/livestock being able to spread, but only to the appropriate squares. Also, having plagues arise in dense populations. Your population eventually grows immune, but is able to spread it to other civilizations (although this might be controversial*).
* I read they were looking to give each religion in Civ 4 its own set of advantages/disadvantages, but dropped the idea for controversy it would undoubtedly produce.
#355 Rawnaeris
I am a retired industrial chemist, working on a large industrial site (a civil nuclear power station).
To get an idea of the job, I was responsible for 3 major areas:
1) Chemical Safety of the staff.
If you know the UK system that means H&S at work, COSHH, CHIP Regs, COMAH and Confined Space Entry. Risk Assessment of Work Order Cards, safety walks around the plant looking for problems before they happened (e.g. rusting of drums, leaking glands and flanges on plant). Advising on safe working practices. How can we get the same job done but reducing the risks to the health and safety of staff?
2) Safety and Protection of the Environment.
Like just about every large industrial site we had strict regulations on what we could discharge to the environment. The Station Chemist, me, was responsible for making sure we could prove that we kept within those limits. Ensure procedures in place for analysis and assessment of the effectiveness of systems to protect the environment. Liaise with the Environmental Protection Agency (one of our Regulators).
Both the above are bread and butter statutory requirements. Absolutely essential if the Company is going to stay out of Court.
3) Long term protection of the plant
Especially from corrosion. Analysis for trace levels of imputities, ensuring quality control of the analytical lab (Shewart and Range Control Charts). Ensure chemical corrosion control (e.g. inhibitors, dosing of chemicals) is done to the correct levels. Provide advice to anyone and everyone on the site about rusting, corrosion, chemical releases, chemical cleaning of plant components – how to do it safely and effectively at minimum cost.
This gives you an idea of real day to day industrial chemistry which is the bread and butter of a whole range of industries. Not exciting – you won’t get to blow people up with nitrogen tri-iodide or picric acid (indeed, that would be a great way to get sacked on the spot). Nobody did that where I worked. Nobody wanted to be thrown off site the same day with no chance whatsoever of a claim for unfair dismissal. In the categories of chemical dick comparison we would have come in the castrated category.
Personally (and not entirely because I ended up on the top of the local pile) I found it fascinating and challenging. You have contact with top management and staff at all levels on the site. People ask your advice (and almost always act on it). You have good interfaces with other sites within the same company. You deal with Regulators within and outside the Company. You are in some ways a jack of all trades – popping up in all sorts of areas – but also a master of your own discipline as it applies to your site.
This is far removed from a research lab but it is what many industries (not just chemistry and pharmaceuticals) require. Much of the work is fiarly routine physical chemistry and chemical safety rather than exciting things pushing back the frontiers of science but it is an important job.
I used to think of the chemist as being the conscience of the site.
The work I have outlined here was done by chemists, in an autonomous chemistry section. Similar work may well require a chemist to be within a safety or environmental section.
I can only suggest you cast your net widely and think very hard about what the company might actually need. Are they looking for an expert in organic synthesis or someone prepared to get their hands dirty working alongside engineers and craftsmen?
If you struggle with finding work then think about how you can widen your skill base by taking courses on environmental protection, chemical safety, Health and Safety Regulations, statistics and data handling, the use of computers for data storage and manipulation – anything that interests you and makes you more marketable.
Best wishes Alan B
MrFire way up thread:
You want me to second which one? Tsingtao or Potassium Cynide?
Knockgoats @404
Richard Kemp by any chance?
I was looking for “Julie’s been working for the Drug squad” by the Clash but cannot find it.
The police operation to catch Kemp was code named Operation Julie, there is an (apocryphal possibly) story that the police broke into a store of LSD with sledgehammers with trippy results for the officers concerned. The story goes that he was caught because his colleagues were buying large amounts of Lactose to cut the Acid and make tablets-they (and many others) weren’t aware that Lactose sales were watched. He still managed to buy several kilos of Ergotamine base on the Continent without arousing suspicion.
Kemp was a damn fine chemist by all accounts who radically improved the Acid synthesis, I believe, from reports at the time, his reasons were politico-religious being a follower of people like Timothy Leary.
Dear Pharynguloids,
You have infected my brain with your chemistry war stories. Last night I dreamed about a young (ex-?)soldier with psychological problems who was lugging around a semi-automatic rifle… and a jar of picric acid. He willingly gave up both of them to some sort of counselor/negotiator, and lucky me was given charge of them while this counselor spoke soothingly with the soldier.
I think we planned to detonate the jar by putting it in an empty area and shooting it, but I awoke before this was resolved.
Bah.
Feynmaniac #426
In the CivIV Thomas’ War mod (BTS V3.19 patch) you can infect cities with the Great Doctor1 character. 8 turns of +1 unhealthy plus 20% chance of spreading to another city in the same civ). You take a -2 influence hit with the plagued civ. In the later game you can unleash biological warfare on an enemy with a plague bomb on a missile. I’ve never done it, so I don’t know how biowar works.
1Oddly enough the Great Doctor doesn’t give a health benefit if put in a city. The benefits are +1 Food, +1 Gold, +3 Great Person production. It can also be used to build unlimited Red Cross national wonders (medic promotion to units built in a city).
Oh Noz Will PZ get home?
Its snowing alomg the East Coast-washington is cut off
Do I hear Laughter from some commentators on this site?
Most flights from Ireland go to Boston or New York. Boston is snow-free.
It is possible that PZ has a flight directly to Minneapolis. The Chicago area doppler radar is clear.
don’t know if this has been mentioned yet:
http://www.generationrescue.org/wakefield_statement2.html
More reinforcement of “Big Pharma + Govt” conspiracy theories, by these two utter nutbars.
I’ve decided that the next antivaxer I run into who spouts off on mercury and autism again will be forced to answer the following 4 questions, or told to STFU:
1. Which vaccines, if any, still utilize mercury preparations as preservatives?
2. EXACTLY how much reactive (as in not inert) mercury will be retained in a human body after a typical vaccine dose that still uses mercury as a preservative?
3. How much reactive mercury will be retained after the ingestion of a typical can of tuna?
4. How much accumulated bio-active mercury does it take for the average human being to start seeing adverse effects? How much for an infant?
They have to be able to answer all four questions accurately, or be told they are nothing but ignorant nutjobs, doing more harm than good. All of the above can easily be answered with just 30 minutes of research.
I know for a fact that not a single anti-vaxer has ever bothered to take the 30 minutes to actually find out the answers to these things.
I am sorry if people think I was suggesting that we would laugh at PZ’s possible misfortunes. I was laughing at those poor politicians in Washington who have 2ft of snow
*hides in great shame*
#430 Owlmirror
You have some great dreams!
Carlie @ #381
The subject of the Twilight Zone show in question was a German officer returning to Dachau after 17 years in hiding. He was beset by ghosts and driven insane in the end. The line that I’d heard in a song, quoted above (with the actual sampled bit in bold and italics above) was delivered when the German officer offered excuses for his actions, then a came a susurration, a sound that could have been the wind, could have been the voices of the dead. Well, here:
Twilight Zone was a good bit before my time (born circa 1975), though I’m appreciating it for what it was the more I’m exposed to it. It’s seems a more subtle form of horror, and perhaps horror is too strong an adjective. I had an 8th grade English teacher that would record the Twilight Zone marathons that used to air and bring them in to watch in class.
Sven & Bill D., OM, my last comment was held for moderation, too many links to Billy Connolly and both your comments, I guess.
“There’s a man on the wing!” said a former boss.
“Is that the Shatner or the Lithgow ‘Man on the wing?” I asked.
Also Carlie @ #381
Yes, it certainly does.
I can’t help but wonder if those people would be moldering in jail down there if there hadn’t had their brains fogged up by the Jebus; that if they were thinking clearly (as opposed to biblicaly), they likely would have taken time to do the necessary paper work and not have run afoul of the law.
Child trafficking? I don’t know, I’m not a mind reader. Uncomfortably, dangerously naive; as in “We’re wearing our ‘Armour of God’ PJ’s” and can do no wrong as a result”? Very likely whether kidnapping and child trafficking was their intent or not.
Going to tone troll myself.
Carlie,
It may have seemed that I was taking an authoritative or condescending air in #438 with regards to the T.Z. show in question. This was not my intent, and I apologize if it read that way.
I believe this is one of the occasions that calls for embedding.
“This is what Men do”
MIT has a yearly tradition known as ‘the sodium drop‘, which involves a large chunk of sodium, the Charles river, and lots of dead fish. For some reason, the Cambridge police have been letting them do it until only the past year or so.
Diazomethane. It goes bang. And all for a poxy esterification.
Yeah. UCLA had a recent and very tragic instance of someone dying in a t-BuLi fire. They were trying to pull out 50mL of the stuff, but line pressure was too high and pushed out the syringe plunger, spraying it all over the chemist. The reaction could have been done with a much less dangerous reagent, and the advisor is currently being grilled over how he could have let this happen.
A postdoc who helped me out as an undergrad would draw out t-BuLi at his benchtop and carry it to mine. He was often sloppy about it, and the syringe would leak flaming drips all along the way.
I heard stories about people using carbon tetrachloride way back in the day.
What about the part where find out you have superhuman strength?
Tsingtao. But please tell me you prefer Tiger beer, if you have tried both.
I didn’t realize we had so many chemists posting here. I knew Nerd and Alan B were chemists, but I didn’t know about all the others.
I love chemistry, but I’m glad I didn’t go into it. I could be quite clumsy and would have likely blown off an arm or two. I’m still not quite sure how I survived those physics labs where we handled radioactive material.
Well, some of us are failed chemists.
(And worse, failed crystallographers.)
Rather… I’m not at all worried about what direct democracy might do to the interests of the wealthy. The rich and powerful can take care of themselves, generally speaking; they’re often able to manipulate public opinion in their preferred direction, and, in the last resort, they always have the option to leave the country (taking their money with them) if their interests are seriously threatened.
And as I said at #258, your fantasies about an educated and enlightened populace are not relevant to the real world; in the immediate term, we have to develop political systems that work for people as they are, not as we might wish them to be. – Walton on the Massachusetts poll thread
Walton, it seemed sensible to bring this here now I’ve finally got round to reading it, rather than zombify that thread. What you say is true, and if I gave the impression I wanted direct democracy now, or implemented in a single step, I should not have done so. What you miss, apparently, is the connection between the two truths you point out: the rich and powerful do not want an educated and enlightened populace – except insofar as their education is necessary to generate profit. Look at the popular press and most TV in the UK, at Fox TV in the USA: mass stupidity, superstition and prejudice are in the interests of the ruling class. I’m not saying stupidity, prejudice and superstition would magically disappear overnight if the media changed, but they are the main force preserving and deepening these features of the populace. That’s as true in Switzerland and California as anywhere else. Of course, you can’t see this, because you are still taken in by so many media-generated myths yourself.
I spent over five years working around nuclear reactors. Other than my daughter having trouble getting shirts that fit properly, there’s been no effects.
Picture of my daughter.
Why doesn’t she just sew her own clothes? She should be able to do it in half the time.
He [Spengler] tried to find all manner of cyclical patterns in history and shored up lots of support for each. – David Marjanović
I’ve never read Spengler, but efforts to find cyclical patterns in history are many. One school of thought I’m interested in, world-systems theory, goes in for them (but within a longer-timescale secular dynamic), and I’ve not reached a conclusion about whether there’s anything in the “long cycles” they and others claim to detect. There obviously are short (and not very regular) “business cycles”, but the most popular “long cycle” is the “Kondratiev cycle” of 50-60 years. I wonder if there are cyclical trends in the fashion for cyclical theories of history?
On the chemistry theme, does anyone know whether it’s true, as I’ve heard, that chemists have significantly reduced life expectancy when compared with other natural scientists – not so much due to accidents, as to repeated low-level exposure to multiple poisons?
*Looks around for something to bash ‘Tis’ bippy. Fails to find one, including finding the bippy. Gets another grog instead.*
Speaking of grog, anybody heard from Josh the geologist recently? Or, is he off on another if he told us, he would have to kill us, mission?
As you may or may not be aware, the Royal Society has released all their content free until February 28th. So any recommendations of papers to grab while I can?
KG #449
IIRC Asimov’s ‘Search for the Elements?’ claimed that several 19C chemists died young in the attempt to isolate fluorine. Don’t know if it’s still true though.
Perhaps PZ should add a new trolling category to describe us.
Walton,
Read the Tory-supporting press: the Sun, Mail, Express, Times, Telegraph. How much support do you see there for civil liberties, for reducing the prison population, for legalising cannabis?
*crickets*
How about ‘Stinkers’?
Not me though, I’m an Engineer {rude mechanical}
Walton,
Read the Tory-supporting press: the Sun, Mail, Express, Times, Telegraph. How much support do you see there for civil liberties, for reducing the prison population, for legalising cannabis?
*crickets*
Picture of my daughter. – ‘Tis Himself
She’s obviously a supporter of the right to bear (and bare!) arms.
Sorry about the double post – my broadband is playing up. Anyhow, time for bed. Goodnight, Pharyngulistas!
Just heard of the death of John Dankworth
*mourn*
No idea. I did try to keep everything water-soluble off that hand, other than water itself.
Dioxide. NO2.
I can’t tell if you’re kidding. I call Poe’s Law on heavy-metal azides!
(…Well, I could tell, by just looking it up in Wikipedia. But that would so ruin the point.)
What is that “party” you speak of? Is it something to eat?
Good idea, except I didn’t bleed. Just droplets of a colorless, slightly sticky liquid.
(Interstitial liquid and lymph were the terms I was looking for.)
Yeah, I found that a bit weird.
The book doesn’t mention whether they wanted to give each its own set, but it makes explicit that all are exactly equal to give everyone the same low level of offense.
Most definitely. Mine are almost never about interesting or otherwise pleasant topics, incredibly incoherent <facepalm>, and whenever I try to read anything, the text changes in front of my eyes… I even notice that I’m making the text up as I go along and sometimes run out of imagination.
Cannot be said often enough.
Alas. I’m decidedly on the wimpish side of things. Long arms, mechanical disadvantage for the muscles…
I had an interesting chemistry teacher in school*, participated in the chemistry olympics** (got up to the national level in the last year, 2000), and studied it for a year. Then I had to give up. The math knocked me out like an exsiccator mishap, so I had to change over to molecular biology*** and got to play with a nice stinky thiol, a thiosugar or something (less stinky, but still), ethidium bromide (the horror, the horror), and liquid nitrogen. Oh, and in the lab course Organic Chemistry for Molecular Biologists I got to weigh some amine, I think trimethyl amine, which is trickier than it sounds.****
* We made, like, copious amounts of tear gas. Hey, it’s easy – just take anything and brominate it. It’s not police-grade, but serious enough!
** Gunpowder… nitroglycerine, though we didn’t dare dry it, which means the great hammer moment was for naught…
*** All this alongside biology → paleobiology.
**** It’s a liquid, but you can’t pour it on one of those concave glass thingies and put that on the scales, because it evaporates too quickly. You have to cover it immediately. Finding this out and then getting the “immediately” part right requires several attempts. Also, distinctive odor. Think fish, only concentrated.
Win.
No idea, but I bet it was true at least in the age of mouth-pipetting.
More importantly, however, unusually many chemists smoke. Chemistry teachers and medical doctors… <headshake>
Sili #441
Must watch that series again
Terry Pratchet gave the Dimbleby Lecture last Monday mentioned upthread. It was named for
Richard Dimbleby
fail damn try this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/4445811.stm
David M: Yes I meant dioxide. The colorless NO reacts with O2 and forms orange NO2. Pulled a mean trick on a girl with an apparently empty bottle in her locker. She opened it during her next class. The teacher looked up to see an orange cloud rising from a row of desks.
BS
serum sanguineous
BS
I find NO and NO2 to be much more scary than HCN. Their effects don’t show up until several hours later (pulmonary edema). With HCN, you are either down or OK.
Franken pwns Comcast CEO
I much prefer N2O. The effects show up immediately, and don’t last long.
FTW!!!
BS
Sili @#441, damn. I’m fucking weeping here.
You know, I just realized that in a thread about Beer and Chemistry, it’s weird that only one person (that I’ve seen) has mentioned homemade stuff.
I had four profs at my uni who all were fans of home-brewed stuff.
Coherency Fail.
I had four profs who all *made* their own beer.
And the rest of them could drink us undergrads under the table.
Ah, the nitrous. Before I went to grad school I worked as a tech in a cardiovascular research lab. We kept a tank of N2O around for use during (dog) surgery.
Me, that light-blue tank, and some latex surgical gloves spent some lunch-hours together.
NO, on the other hand, is a little molecule with great physiological significance. That increased bloodflow to your penis or clitoris when turned on, e.g.
Re: Cycles in history
“History doesn’t repeat; but it rhymes.”–Mark Twain
Yeah, how many homebrewers hang out here? I’ve been brewing for about 10 years now. My next adventure will be to build one of these.
I once tried to make dandelion wine. After several weeks of fermenting I got an awful looking mixture of piss-yellow liquid and green sludge. No, I didn’t try it.
Two words: fractionation column.
BS
Nature (News & Views) or Science (News Focus) headline from maybe 15 years ago: “Plants just say NO to aggressors”… It’s made by white blood cells, too, along with various peroxides and even chlorine, for doing random harm to pathogens.
Nitroglycerin (heart medicine, remember?) and Viagra lead to higher NO levels and thus blood vessel dilatation.
I hope you were sitting down when you did that shit. I have a half-inch scar over my right eyebrow that is the result of standing up too soon after taking a “sip” off of a balloon. (Parking garage across from Soldier Field, June 22, 1992.)
I always loved wandering around the Shakedown after a show and hearing the siren song of the tank; Pssshhhttt. LSD and N2O were made for each other.
So, when ATF breaks down my door I can say “That’s not a moonshine still, it’s a fractionation column.”?
If you’re unlucky on of the ATF guys will have taken a couple of semesters of chemistry.
While N2O may have physiological properties (I had some for dental work once), it is also an oxidizer used in hybrid rocket engines. This includes SpaceShipOne, which won the X-prize for the first commercial space ship. Also used by the Mythbusters for their attempt to duplicate the rumored Confederate rocket.
As well as LSD and amyl nitrite. Or so I have heard :)
And as I am fond of reminding folks, the stuff
weyou were taking was almost certainly lysergamide. LSD is not stable.David M: I can’t find anything on the uv sensitivity of copper azide. Maybe they just threw it in to get the drama up. Worked for me. I actually don’t remember how I disposed of it.
And yes, bromacetone is one hell of a lacrimator.
BS
NSFJ:
Dang, NASA scheduled the launch of Endeavour for 3:40 AM local time. Don’t think I’ll be up for that. Catch the replay at 6:00 AM.
The fractionation column sets on top of the boiling vessel and just below the condenser. From the font of all knowledge.
The effect is as if you repeated the distillation many, many times. I would get 180 proof on a single pass.
Just pack a vertical copper tube with stainless steel pot scrubbers and you are good to go.
Shortly after this, I gave up drinking altogether.
BS
How does “d-lysergic acid diethylamide” differ from “lysergamide”? Isn’t lysergamide just a generic term for lysergic acids, whereas LSD is generally understood to be LSD25 as synthesized by Hofmann in 1938? I’m curious, am I missing something? (I’m an ignoramus when it comes to chemistry, among other things.)
Not to mention ketones, aldehydes and various esters.
While amide can be a generic term, without any modification it means an NH2 attached to a carbonyl group. The diethyl amide has N(CH2CH3)2 attached to the carbonyl. Slight difference, which may or may not be significant. In this case, it is.
The taste, but also the hangover ingredients…
Do you mention this as a feature or a bug? Overly pure distillations lose their character. And IMHO, hangovers build character.
There are a world of lysergamides, many of which are natural. Morning glory seeds anyone? They aren’t as powerful, but increasing the dose solves that problem. From wiki:
LSD is a synthetic lysergamide. I should have said people were taking lysergamides other than LSD.
Fusel oils, actually higher alcohols. They come over last and aren’t a problem. If you want to remove them, just stop distilling when the temperature in the condenser starts to rise.
There is a smelly fraction that comes over first. Refrain from collecting this fraction.
BS
wiki denies this and gives a reference.
BS
An ex-neighbor of the Redhead’s parents, who used to be a moonshiner, said a little of this fraction needed to be mixed back in for a some “flavor”, which increased his price.
An old moonshiner from Georgia, when asked if his product had been aged said “shore it has. I drove slow into town.”
BS
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5barv_steve-hillage-the-salmon-song-rockp_music
Nerd,
What part of “I’m an ignoramus when it comes to chemistry” didn’t you get. :) What I mean to ask is, how is LSD25 unstable? I’ve kept it on blotter paper wrapped in tinfoil in the freezer for years without a noticeable (subjective observation warning) change in effects.
Or does d-lysergic acid diethylamide convert to various lysergamides once ingested? Or is this whole topic way over my head?
BTW the ATF in Georgia actually gave demos on the construction of moonshine stills at county fairs to prevent lead poisoning from bad ‘shine.
The moonshine business didn’t go under until a price increase in the cost of sugar did them in.
BS
BTW, nice Loser, Sven.
Me likey!