Who knows? Maybe they’re right. They’re planning a program for “Nightline” (which, I seem to recall, at least used to be a pretty good news program) which will probably get them some decent ratings.
They’re going to have a debate on the existence of Satan.
Yeah, you heard that right…on a so-called news program. But it gets worse! They have 4 people coming on to yell at each other.
On the “Satan exists!” side, they have Pastor Mark Driscoll, head of a megachurch in Seattle, and Annie Lobert, former prostitute and founder of a group called Hookers for Jesus. Sensationalism is already rearing its gaudy head, you can tell.
Even worse, the “Satan does not exist!” side is a joke. It consists of Bishop Carlton Pearson, who doesn’t accept the doctrine of hell but is a Christian, and…unbelievably…Deepak Chopra. Not an atheist or skeptic among them, just hardcore believers in woo vs. fluffy believers in woo.
Don’t tune in. It will be a complete waste of time.
OMFNEG
It’s Nightline. I never tune in.
It’s Nightline. I never tune in.
Cripple fight!
I might be a little confused, but, isn’t this like a sort of debate about the internal workings of Christianity?
Like, if we were to hold a debate on some specifics within evolution, like, how important intelligence is in wild nature and how fast said intelligence it might evolve, would it make any sense to have a creationist there?
Next time on Nightline: We pit 4 mental patients against each other on the pivotal question of the existence of the elusive invisible demon fairy unicorns from mars.
They should follow it up with a debate about the existence of air. They could basically keep the same panel and get the other extreme of stoopid.
Ah, the joys of semi-early to bed, semi-early to rise. I don’t even have to think of this nonsense. Snore.
Sounds more like Night Gallery than Nightline.
They are airing this April 1st, right?
I call Hookers for Jesus for the name of my next year’s NCAA bracket.
I occassionally watched Nightline when Ted Koppel was on. I’ve only watched once since he retired – the Rational Response Squad v. Way of the Master episode. Haven’t felt the need to go back.
“I might be a little confused, but, isn’t this like a sort of debate about the internal workings of Christianity?”
Sorta, but then they shouldn’t have Chopra. They should also specfically call it a Christiantm debate.
“Annie Lobert, former prostitute and founder of a group called Hookers for Jesus…”
oh come on..at least that’s pretty funny.
Maybe we can have them represent the creationist side in an evolution debate. At least it would be fun.
Porn Stars for Pastafarianism representing the idea of a beer volcano and stripper factory against evil evolutionists? I’d watch that.
They are airing this April 1st, right?
(That’s April Fool’s day here in the US… for those of you from other parts of the planet)
(of course, those of you from other parts of the planet probably think Every Day is Fool’s day in the US…)
Wait, wait, wait…. Hookers for Jesus? That’s… not a joke???? What, do the individual members call themselves the Mary Magdalenes?
Drakim @ #5
They’re arguing of the existence of something – satan. Making positive claims about reality is fine, but they need to be backed up with physical evidence and reasoned logic. Scientists are good at that, not magic believers.
One should recognize that intelligent things could be said concerning the matter, particularly the evolution of “Satan” in the OT into the evil opponent of god in Xian mythology.
That said, well, anything intelligent said by the bishop (let’s hope) is going to be drowned out by the woo of the rest of that pathetic bunch.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Are there any Hookers for Science groups? We could have them and the Hookers for Jesus mud-wrestle it out or something?
I would be nice if following each question, they would add something like: Could it be… SATAN?
oh ffs… i understand that atheists are evil and bad for the ratings, but you’d think they’d be able to find a buddhist at least. or a deist. or just SOME sort of actual variety. you’d think this was on Christ TV…
I wish Satan were real so I could sell him my soul in exchange for delicious maritime food and booze. Oh what I wouldn’t give for a Mount Everest donair….. Do you know there is a pub in Moncton where you can get giant glass boots full of blueberry beer?! And don’t get me started on how much I miss maritime seafood and that sweet Nova Scotian wine… Oh Satan, I do so hunger and thirst; why hast thou forsaken me?
A substantial proportion of the population believe in Lucifer. ABC aim to have a substantial proportion watch the programme. Whether they think its viewers are mentally incapacitated is by-the-by.
Hookers for Jesus? So now he’s a pimp?! Are the Good Book’s pages stuck together?
Should we write to Nightline and call them idiots over this? I just don’t know if it’s worth the effort.
I wish Satan were real so I could sell him my soul in exchange for delicious maritime food and booze. Oh what I wouldn’t give for a Mount Everest donair….. Do you know there is a pub in Moncton where you can get giant glass boots full of blueberry beer?! And don’t get me started on how much I miss maritime seafood and that sweet Nova Scotian wine… Oh Satan, I do so hunger and thirst; why hast thou forsaken me?
Pearson said “Human beings themselves create evil and “stupid stuff” … To blame Satan takes away personal responsibility”
That in itself I would have to agree with.
Once again I am quite happy of not owning a TV.
The lineup of debaters, Driscoll said, helps ensure “this is not just an academic debate but also a practical discourse.”
Practical how? Practical as in “Dick and Jane” level conversation for people who couldn’t catch American Idol that night?
*sigh*
Maybe, though, we’re talking about hockey players. It’s too bad that Miroslav Satan played mostly for Buffalo… and never New Jersey.
I wish Satan were real so I could sell him my soul in exchange for delicious maritime food and booze. Oh what I wouldn’t give for a Mount Everest donair….. Do you know there is a pub in Moncton where you can get giant glass boots full of blueberry beer?! And don’t get me started on how much I miss maritime seafood and that sweet Nova Scotian wine… Oh Satan, I do so hunger and thirst; why hast thou forsaken me?
Cool, a program on the existence of Santa. I hope we can get to see it in Europe.
ABC thinks we’re all morons:
and they’re 95% right.
I wish Satan were real so I could sell him my soul in exchange for delicious maritime food and booze. Oh what I wouldn’t give for a Mount Everest donair….. Do you know there is a pub in Moncton where you can get giant glass boots full of blueberry beer?! And don’t get me started on how much I miss maritime seafood and that sweet Nova Scotian wine… Oh Satan, I do so hunger and thirst; why hast thou forsaken me?
That made my head hurt just reading the description.
The twitter follow link doesn’t work I suspect and hope GB is right and it’s a April Fools prank. Otherwise, I will request the next discussion will be over the existence of the Easter Bunny.
Twitter: Follow the debate at http://twitter.com/satandoiexist.
I wish Satan were real so I could sell him my soul in exchange for delicious maritime food and booze. Oh what I wouldn’t give for a Mount Everest donair….. Do you know there is a pub in Moncton where you can get giant glass boots full of blueberry beer?! And don’t get me started on how much I miss maritime seafood and that sweet Nova Scotian wine… Oh Satan, I do so hunger and thirst; why hast thou forsaken me?
What, no exorcists?
I’m following a debate in Miami today, about a nearly $700M gift of a baseball stadium to the Florida Marlins. Apparently, the meeting started with the words, “Good morning heavenly father, good morning lord Jesus”.
Hmmm. Jesus lives in the Eastern time zone. Who knew?
I am so joining Hookers for Jesus.
There is a Satan! He is a character on Dragonball Z. Technically he was Mr. Satan, but still.
I imagine the arguments are going to be exactly the same as the arguments for God
Woah…cpsmith really REALLY needs to eat or drink soon – those posts are getting pretty desperate! ;)
Satan Is Real!
The Louvin Brothers tells me so.
Adding Chopra’s a nice touch, though adding Pratchett or Hitchens would have been more rational.
I wonder how many on the panel know what anthropomorphic personification means.
Exactly!
I know nothing of T.J. Wray… at all. So I cannont on her work but she did write a book on the OT bad guys to the personification of evil.
It even has *her* exasperated!
News died when they started interviewing other newspeople.
They would interrupt a show for a rumored white house decision, but when they cut to the person on the scene, it was in front of the white house, and the commentator said something like, “Well, we don’t know what is going on, but it may be…”
Then they cut to a newsguy in front of it the capital building, saying, ‘we don’t know what it is, but it might be…’
This went on for 15 ‘damned’ minutes.
The debate over whether Satan exists is hardly going to be settled in a 30-minute television show.
So the whole show is a complete waste of fucking time!!!!!
I am soooo sorry for the many multiple posts. My computer led me to believe that the page wasn’t loading properly.
Next week on Nightline: What happens when one reaches the edge of the earth?
Don’t tune in. It will be a complete waste of time.
Are you insane, PZ? This is a popcorn and beer event! :-) Feynmaniac nailed it. This is cripple fight. The only way to improve it would be the addition of some hungry lions.
Quick! Someone develop a drinking game for this.
The debate over whether Satan exists is hardly going to be settled in a 30-minute television show.
So the whole show is a complete waste of fucking time!!!!!
ABC lost its last shred of credibility as a news organization in my eyes when Peter Jennings died and they replaced him with the nitwit from good morning america. It’s been downhill since the Mouse bought em up.
Chopra is just another snakeoil salesman.
cheeses = Morning Star
Lucifer = Morning Star
QED, Satan worship
At first I was confused by the “Hookers for Jesus” thing. Then I thought about it a bit more and it made sense. They’re just doing what the Bible told them to do. Jesus said “Sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
I’m still a little curious as to how they decide whether to sell or give it away though. How poor do you have to be to get a freebie?
At least the topic of the debate is a bit refreshing. Most fundamentalist Christians assume that if they convince you of the existence of God, that Satan gets to come along for the ride. The attempt rational proofs of the existence of God, but if even believers in Satan usually get uncomfortable if you inquire into why they believe in Satan. In their usual everyday discourse they usually see Satan as far more active in their lives, causing various evils and temptations and “strongholds” and addictions. Especially with the 7th Day Adventists, I take care to warn them that they risk making Satan seem far more real and powerful than Jesus to their children. I’ve seen young teens raised in such families that have carved pentagrams on their arms and gotten fixated on Satan.
Don’t tune in. It will be a complete waste of time.
Are you insane, PZ? This is a popcorn and hard alcohol event! :-) Feynmaniac nailed it. This is (mental) cripple fight. The only way to improve it would be the introduction of some hungry lions after one of the commercial breaks.
Quick! Someone develop a drinking game for this.
The debate over whether Satan exists is hardly going to be settled in a 30-minute television show.
So the whole show is a complete waste of fucking time!!!!!
cpsmith.
It happens. Read the message that it gives you and it explains that you just need to hit back and refresh.
If you see your Mom this weekend, be sure to tell her SATAN! SATAN! SATAN!
Ok. Every time you hear Deepak Chopra use the word “quantum”, take a shot and then roll on the floor pretending to be Niels Bohr spinning in his grave.
ABC lost its last shred of credibility as a news organization in my eyes when Peter Jennings died and they replaced him with the nitwit from good morning america. It’s been downhill since the Mouse bought em up.
Chopra is just another snakeoil salesman.
Pity they can’t debate the negative impact of all religious belief, satan inclusive, see: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Man-held-for-raping-daughters/articleshow/4285650.cms
The debate over whether Satan exists is hardly going to be settled in a 30-minute television show.
So the whole show is a complete waste of fucking time!!!!!
I have a question I would like the panel to answer?
“If the Devil is a fallen angel as Christians teach, who tempted him or caused him to fall?
How could HE be tempted if there was no Satan and no evil to tempt him?”
God Retardent, read what the Rev posted. And, AFAIK, the question of Satan’s existence is settled already. This is an argument over the awful color choices in the emperor’s new clothes.
My understanding has always been that Satan was not portrayed as the opponent of god, but rather the opponent of man. This position was formed from a religious philosophy class discussion of the story of Job, where God and the Opponent (can’t remember if this is the exact word in the Oxford English translation) debate how to ruin Job’s life.
Since christianity is a AAA religion, i.e. god is All knowing, All powerful, and All good, no sufficiently well informed individual would oppose god, since it is pointless. Since Satan is sufficiently well informed, but not all powerful, he does not oppose god, just other constrained individuals like himself.
I don’t understand why they don’t end the show with someone revealing the real answer. Otherwise, it’s nothing but one person’s faith-based intuition and interpretation against another person’s faith-based intuition and interpretation, and the audience is left hanging in suspense.
That’s so… diabolical.
I have a question I would like the panel to answer?
“If the Devil is a fallen angel as Christians teach, who tempted him or caused him to fall?
How could HE be tempted if there was no Satan and no evil to tempt him?”
I thank myself, rather than any non-existent god, every day that I don’t have or watch TV.
Television is a complete waste of fucking time and fucking brain cells!!!!!
Hookers for Jesus. I hope he will share- he’ll need at least twelve….
or maybe…
“Ok Peter, what have you gathered”
“5 loaves, 2 fishes and a couple of toms”
“OK, Heres what you do- distribute the bread and the fish to everyone- there will be enough”
“OK Lord- and the prozzies?”
“I SAID, distribute the Bread and Fish, ok- should take half an hour or so?”
Do you know- I reckon there might be a joke about the Second Coming hidden in there somewhere…
Just to practice my sophistry skills, I’d like to attend and argue that while Satan does exist, God doesn’t.
ABC proved they are morons when they canceled Pushing Daisies.
Debate? Doesn’t Spam prove the existence of Satan?
I herewith challenge either Satan or Jesus or both to appear live in that program, otherwise I will take their absence as strong evidence that they don’t exist.
“Hookers for Jesus: their blowjobs will send you to heaven.”
Sorry.
I have a question I would like the panel to answer?
“If the Devil is a fallen angel as Christians teach, who tempted him or caused him to fall?
How could HE be tempted if there was no Satan and no evil to tempt him?”
Debate? Doesn’t Spam prove the existence of Satan?
Money from hookers goes straight to the Church coffers:
Jan 15,1897 – Apostle Brigham Young, Jr. temporarily resigns as vice-president of Brigham Young Trust Company because first counselor George Q Cannon allows its property to become ” a first class” brothel on Commercial Street (now Regent Street), Salt Lake City. Apostle Heber J Grant is invited to its opening reception and is stunned to discover himself inside “a regular whore-house.” This situation begins in 1891, and for fifty years church controlled real estate companies lease houses of prostitution.
Hey! Enough with the moron bashing. Morons buy soap don’t they? And Nightline is there to sell soap. What they ought to do is settle with a trial by ordeal or something. Maybe make them all mud wrestle and winner take all. An ex-hooker you say? I’d pay to see her in the mud pit! Or even better, see if the witch floats. The people want circus, don’t you understand? Bread and circus. Feed the losers to the lions, that’ll show somebody that Santa exists. And it’ll sell soap.
Sorry PZ… They had me at “Hookers for Jesus”.
I wonder if “Hookers for Zombie Jesus” exists or if I can claim that one?
Fools all of you! Surely this is a debate on the existence of Santa?
No?
WhaaaaAAAAAA!?
A real, serious debate about a red bloke with horns, hooves and tail tempting us sinners? I….umm…..erm….I…..uh that is….dude! Words fail me. It’s bad enough endlessly imagining the big bearded fella who watches you whack off, but satan, the geezer supposedly tempting you to masturbate? I think things have gone too far!
However “Hookers for Jesus” I get. This I understand. After all a significant portion of these ladies spend a great deal of time on their knees. Surely there must be something more pleasant than the object in front of them to think about. Even fictional nirvanas and well mumbled catechisms could divert the lady in question in the process of providing her, ahem, service.
Deary me, what a world.
Louis
Ugh. First that awful debate a couple years ago with Banana and Growing Pains vs. Rational Response Squad and now this. Try, try again.
Somnolent Aphid @76 — Okay, conceded. Morons do buy lots o’ soap. Purity is an issue. Plus they have to store a year’s worth of soap along with a year’s worth of cling peaches if they’re any kinda upright Moron. Good consumers, yes.
A flood in southern Utah washed through some Moron communities and the outflow was full of canned goods and ruined sacks of flour, not to mention wheat in a state of un-groundedness.
Satan exists because Milton made him a Rock Star.
#80 Lynna – no no no.. not mormons… I said mor…
or perhaps you are right… let me think about that
I think everybody should be asking “Do they still fuck?”
Idiot A:”Fairies all wear blue hats”
Idiot B:”No! They’re PURPLE”
*brawl ensues*
But of course Job is the OT, the Old Testament, and it does not portray Satan as the NT and Xian mythology do:
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
It’s April Fool’s Day in most other countries, too. :p
On the bright side, the article does mention someone who’s studied the invention of Satan. Too bad they didn’t get her to go up against Driscoll. I’ve no doubt she’d whip his ass on the subject.
Yeah – I will skip that one.
Oh behave. If you can get an erection reading the bible, you must be satan!
Why didn’t they get someone like Peter H. Gilmore on there? That would be fun!
On a serious note, that Hooker for Jesus is kinda hot. That disturbs me greatly, and also she’s met Mr. T. I knew I should have whored myself out to THE LORD THY GOD rather than studied engineering! Damned.
@ 58
I know what message you are talking about, but I wasn’t even getting that. The computer just wasn’t responding when I tried to post. Satan must have been confounding my computer.
ABC proved they are morons when they canceled Pushing Daisies.
Glen, you’re probably right in some technical sense, but it strikes me that Lynna is correct when it comes to culture. Satan as the English-speaking world knows him is Milton’s Satan (even if we only know him second-hand because we can’t be bothered to read Paradise Lost).
I wasn’t aware of any recent developments regarding Satan.
@Mike M. #38
I guess the MORmONS were right about Jesus being a snowbird from New York. Drop off the gold tablets: check. Fly to Florida: check. Attend baseball stadium debate: check.
“not an atheist or skeptic among them.” C’mon PZ..what self respecting atheist or skeptic would bother? Would you? What a bunch of ninnies. Please tell me it’s a joke.
I thought windows vista clearly proved the existence of Satan.
If you play the CD backwards you can see and hear the horrors of Hell. If you play it forwards, it does even worse : it installs windows vista.
Nightline or sleep. I choose sleep. At least my dreams will make more sense than the satan debate claptrap.
Shouldn’t we take the lack of skeptics as a good thing? It means none of them returned Nightline’s calls.
Free Lunch @92 is right. Satan is a revelation in Paradise Lost. Are they still covering Milton in college lit courses? If so, coeds everywhere are still falling in love with the bad boy.
Satan is God’s gambling buddy. God says, “Wanna bet I can even get them to pay for electronic prayer?” Satan says, “No way, that’s even crazier than that thing with Job.” God says, “Watch this.”
Come to think of it… What else than sighing, rolling their eyes, facepalming and finally giggling weakly in desperation at the stupidity of their fellow human beings could they do ?
Beyond gaping in disbelief, I wouldn’t even know what to do with somebody who started talking seriously about Satan. Maybe I’d call the nearest mental hospital. Or ask the guy if he’s thought to renew his medication this month.
And what would a skeptic possibly add to this debate if asked to join the panel? All one could do is say “I cannot believe you people. You are absolutely friggin nuts!” I mean if this were a rational debate how would Nightline fill up the hour?
I hear that is a major problem to high-profile sceptics everywhere – the phone just rings off the hook, what with the popular media looking to give a platform to rational voices which satisfy the intellectual rigour of their well-informed audience…
Will they argue the existence of leprechauns next week? They coiuld make a whole series of these, with ogres, faeries, goblins, the bogey man, sinterklaas, anal-probing lesbian space aliens for zombie cheeses…they could keep at this formulaic crap for ages.
I’d definitely tune in if it was a sketch featuring Eric Idle, Terry Jones, John Cleese, and Michael Palin as the four guests.
Admittedly, the Pastor, the hooker, the Bishop and the woo-meister might be even funnier.
Someone should dress up like Satan and sit in the audience. Keep them on their toes.
Whenever anyone says ‘eternal punishment’ or ‘everlasting punishment’, drink.
Whenever anyone says ‘lake of fire and brimstone’, drink twice.
Whenever anyone says ‘Judas’, ‘Hitler’, or ‘Stalin’, drink.
Whenever Deepak Chopra says ‘quantum’, or ‘energy’, drink.
Whenever anyone else says ‘quantum’, or ‘energy’, drink twice.
That’s my 5 rule contribution.
Maybe Normal Bob can make it http://www.normalbobsmith.com/
No Bob Larsen, http://www.boblarson.org/, the exorcist. Too bad.
@ Cpsmith: I can totally relate to maritime food. Half my family lives in Moncton, and they’re all sociable people who will gladly fatten anyone up who comes into their house. I went to visit for reading week, and gained several pounds.
Glen D. writes
Agreed. I did not see your reference to the NT, with its LSD inspired grand finale, in the earlier post.
I sometimes get the feeling that the NT did not have sufficient peer review. The book of Job, which I was discussing earlier, is thought to have gone through several rewrites at different historical periods. They kept reworking the text until most people liked it.
The NT is more like a collection of a few hundred-year-old-blogs patched together when Constantine decided to make Christianity legit.
@ 99
As a PhD student in Renaissance literature, I can assure you that Milton is still an integral part of most intro to Brit Lit courses and any English degree.
And Milton’s Satan is just fantastic. ABC should be doing a two hour long program on representations of Satan in literature instead of this nonsense.
Although, I’d really like to get a Pyrrhonist skeptic on the program. S/he could just respond for an hour: “I can neither affirm nor deny the existence of Satan”.
Satan needs
solessouls!Of course I exist! I’ve started a blog, right here: http://www.robotsandlava.com It’s called “What Would Satan Do?”
peek-a-boo, here i am!
I disagree with PZ here, watching this will be totaly amusing. But if was organizing the debate I’d bring in a couple of satanists, as they might have some interesting points to add to the discussion. I’d also ask the participants to abstain from pea soup 48 hours prior to the debate.
peek-a-boo, here i am!
Eons ago, they had Nelson Mandela debate then- S. African P.M. Botha. THAT was television Edward Murrow could have been proud of. THAT was long ago.
I may be senile, maybe it was Desmond Tutu, not Mandela.
Dustin (#59):
Better yet, every time you hear Deepak Chopra use the word “quantum”, go shag somebody in a ski chalet and pretend you’re Erwin Schrödinger.
Deepak Chopra
What? Wasn’t Larry Fafarman or Dembski available?
Don’t tune in. It will be a complete waste of time.
On the contrary. It will be most entertaining.
And just to answer the question, Miroslav Satan does exist, and plays for the Pittsburgh Penguins. Doesn’t wear # 666 though.
Well if there was someway this show hasn’t jumped the shark…fire up the speed boat and get out the leather jacket, because we all have a shark jumping to watch.
Well if there was someway this show hasn’t jumped the shark…fire up the speed boat and get out the leather jacket, because we all have a shark jumping to watch.
Deepak Chopra loves these panels. He pretends to position himself as the liberal, moderate friend of science, with a form of spirituality that rejects the dogmas of religion, and is therefore completely rational and tolerant; it should be acceptable to anyone but the extremist nutcases like Dawkins and other atheists. He’s Mr. Science, because he’s holistic, and knows that science should include all of reality, including its spiritual component.
“God is a field of consciousness that is set up for maximum diversity — and that includes the divine and diabolical, the sacred and the profane.” (Deepak Chopra)
Isn’t that deeeeep?
The Caption is too hilarious to be true:
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=96152370&albumID=47131&imageID=9614550
Or costumes, like in WWF. Oh, hang on, three of them will probably be wearing costumes. What should Deepak dress as? Shiva?
Aaron @109:
I sometimes get the feeling that the NT did not have sufficient peer review.
…
The NT is more like a collection of a few hundred-year-old-blogs patched together when Constantine decided to make Christianity legit.
I HIGHLY recommend the book “Lost Christianities” by Bart Ehrman to anyone who is interested in how much peer review the Bible got. It actually got quite a lot – and a lot of editing – before it hit the final form we have today. And the books that got left out are kind of astonishing. And Constantine had little to do with it – the canon we have today had already been set by Christians long before Constantine’s conversion.
It’s a great read for anyone who is interested in the history of how a minor Jewish apocalypse cult centered around an executed criminal could rise to become a powerful, world-spanning religion.
“And later John Stossel investigates – ALIEN ABDUCTIONS: Are they happening all around us? Or simply rare events?”
Ballard? Back when I was there, that was the goofy part of Seattle. If I remember the punchline: “In Ballard, at 10 o’clock the TV stations say, ‘It’s 10 o’clock, do you know what time it is?'”
Hookers for Jesus? But is Jesus for hookers? And would Miss Hookers for Jesus be willing to participate in a practical demonstration of the existence of Satan?
In the first part of the Bible, Satan seems a lot more honest and much friendlier than God. He gets the people wisdom, and they do not die. Then God throws a fit.
“The Serpent Spake Sooth”
llewelly #105
by your rules, I’ll probably be in an alcoholic coma before 10 mins :P
Actually, Christians not accepting the doctrine of hell are not entirely uncommon. Some entire sects (for instance, Jehovah’s Witlesses) reject it.
I do not exist. At least I hope to convince you of this. It would be my greatest trick.
[quote]I thank myself, rather than any non-existent god, every day that I don’t have or watch TV.
Television is a complete waste of fucking time and fucking brain cells!!!!![/qoute]
Oh, I dunno. On BBC TV at this very moment:
“Lonesome George and the Battle for the Galapagos”
“Jim Doherty in Darwin’s Garden”
“Darwin’s dangerous idea”.
One after the other, no programmes or adverts in between.
Ramen to that.
Chopra, ugh. Our local PBS station drags his ass out of the vault for their pledge drives. They show his seminars where he babbles, “You are a part of the Universe and the Universe is a part of you,” to glassy-eyed baby boomers who nod and smile in adoration.
I like PBS, but the parade of metaphysical, inspirational woo peddled by Chopra and Wayne Dyer, pretty much seals up my wallet.
Live blog and drinking game sounds fun.
Hookers for Jesus?!!? Into the mouths of babes….
The question has already been answered by Tom Waits:
“You know there ain’t no Devil, that’s just God when he’s drunk”.
Stephanie @ #84 said:
No, Fairies wear boots. And, their hats are infra-violet.
Hookers for Jesus?!!? Into the mouths of babes….
reading the link… “We went for the most interesting voices we could find,” Goldston said. – nuff said?
whoops…double post. Thought my system froze. Sorry
I agree with my namesake m at #130, there. There’s some good stuff on TV, but I watch it on iPlayer, or get the DVD box set after. Or watch the game in the pub. No loss not having a telly.
On topic: Satan deffo exists, I just listened to his show on Radio 4 this evening. “Old Harry’s Game”. Very funny, Satan diabolically blackmailed the Archangel Gabriel by photoshopping a picture of him in a compromising position with Richard Dawkins.
Oh yeah, and “ABC” can think we’re morons just as soon as they get beyond the first three letters of the alphabet.
“Just a little joke.”
“Practically stillborn.”
With apoligies to Hawkeye and Frank Burns for using their lines.
*Slinks quietly away, to seek solace in dark beer and salt/vinegar almonds.*
Not fair. I demand a “Hookers for Eduardo” group.
Mechashiva!
This American Life program about participant Carlton Pearson – http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1273
Insight into the mindset.
@57 Janine: “Daddy, what does regret mean?
bezulbub, come on down…time to up your archangel status.
bezulbub, come on down…time to up your archangel status.
Should be interesting to some. I’ve watched about a dozen Driscoll sermons, and he is *very* good – if you are an evangelical fundamentalist (of course).
I would sell my soul for a donut…
So they’ll be debating the existence of Ned Flanders? He totally exists!
Impressive. This is almost as good as their debate on evolution, featuring Ray Comfort, who is clueless even for a creationist, and not ONE evolutionary biologist. Way to hold up the intellectual standards, ABC!
(Nothing against the evolution side on the evolution debate, of course, but it would be nice if they actually had a biologist to debate a question of biology.)
You may mock the Hookers for Jesus, but they do a great rendition of “O Come All Ye Faithful.”
Yes, Satan is real, in fact he and his wife Ingrid have a young son… he and the Pittsburgh Penguins are currently negotiating his future with the team.
So no, I don’t need to watch Nightline.
^_^
I have been subscribing to Mark Driscoll’s blog, because I feel like I need to keep an eye on him. That guy is scary, and bound to be the media’s next fundie darling, because he’s young and extremely contraversial, and pushing hard to “plant” new churches all across the globe. I have a feeling we are going to be seeing a lot more of this douchebag. Grr.
props to Pete Rooke and AG for relatively concise and on-topic comments!
as for Satan, check Garth Ennis’s Chronicles of Wormwood for a hilarious and smart take on xianity, Satan, and the reluctant antichrist.
and if you play the drinking game for this Nightline episode by reading the transcript, alcoholic coma comes even faster.
Carlton Pearson is a very good choice for arguing against Satan from within a Christian perspective, but Deepak Chopra? The show is a joke once he gets on. The most obvious and direct argument against Satan is an atheistic one. There should be an atheist Bible scholar on the panel in place of Chopra. Perhaps it’s time for Deacon Duncan of Evangilical Realism to out himself.
I’d be a better guest than Chopra.
There is no debate. Satan is alive and well and embezzling money from churches.
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20090319/NEWS01/703199921/0/FRONTPAGE
“Not an atheist or skeptic among them, just hardcore believers in woo vs. fluffy believers in woo.”
Well, thats logical. Atheists have better things to do instead of debating the reality of imaginary bogey men.
“Don’t tune in. It will be a complete waste of time.”
I disagree. It might be hilarious…No. It will be hilarious. A pity that the thing isn’t a phone in. You could phone in and tell ’em that Satan is just an avatar of Nyarlathotep, and that you’re comin’ to get ’em with your CEPHALOPOD OF DOOM!
Bacopa said: …as for Satan, check Garth Ennis’s Chronicles of Wormwood for a hilarious and smart take on xianity, Satan, and the reluctant antichrist.
That seems to be in the same vein as Lucy, Daughter of the Devil, another reluctant antichrist, who’s boyfriend is DJ Jesus.
Bone Oboe, thanks for the classic Sabbath link — we were thinking the same thing.
Reminds me of the family guy episode with the Super Devil…
Super Devil
Shouldn’t that be ‘intelligible’?
bishop and intelligence = oxymoron
Why aren’t the Satanists being allowed to argue for the existence of Satan??
Dustin @ 59: “Ok. Every time you hear Deepak Chopra use the word “quantum”, take a shot and then roll on the floor pretending to be Niels Bohr spinning in his grave.”
Dude, we would all be passed out in the first 10 minutes. But well played, sir.
Geez, I so wish they’d have asked Boyd Rice in on this one. We could have a Satanist explaining why Satan doesn’t exist, but if he did it’d be a good thing.
I feel so bad for the Bishop. I mean, he believes in woo and all, but he at least arrived at his decision through careful study of the religious texts and something vaguely akin to genuine academic research (in this case comparative literature aka theology). He so doesn’t deserve to share a podium with the psycho Jesus was Chuck Norris guy, a broken-down perfect example of the religious preying on the weak, and a scam artist.
Also, ditto to BK, let’s get the Satanists up there. First for the hilarity, second for the fact that given their texts, they’d prove more learned and rational than most of the other woo peddlers. Heck, most Satanist churches are elaborate send-ups of the whole Hell concept anyways, so I’d actually tune in for that debate.
I’m not so worried about the existence of Satan as I am of the Superdevil. He’s about 6 inches taller, rides a flying motorcycle, and carries a jar of marmalade that forces people to commit adultery. If you’re worried about risks to your salvation, he’s the one to keep an eye on.
But how can sceptics explain away this shocking evidence?
Oh, if I remember I’ll watch it. Lol. I like comedy. It also clues me in on some of the concepts people have rolling around in their heads. Know thine enemy and all that rot. It makes me giggle honestly, people of “faith” will be disavowing another invisible entity.
Good times.
It’s actually really interesting to read Elaine Pagels book about the origin (mythologically) of Satan. If I recall, a shaitan was originally an enforcer angel that god sent out to do the dirty work. It then morphed into the modern concept of Satan. So in the old testament there really wasn’t a “Satan” there were just angels that god sent out to f*** with people. Long story short, god was a real jerk. I certainly don’t think Christianity is “true” but the mythology of it is interesting, like any other mythology. Read Mike Carey’s graphic novel “Lucifer”: Lucifer Morningstar gives up the rule of hell and opens a nightclub in LA. It’s interesting.
Maybe next week they can have a debate on the existence of leprechauns….
If Chopra had any sort of credibility he would have told them to get lost. “What are you asking me for? I come from a culture that does not believe in your supposed Satan.” Of course he in fact has no credibility and would never miss a chance to get his face in public.
Since Ted Koppel left, Nightline is complete shit, and deliberately so, it would seem.
Too bad for Carlton Pearson. He’s the only one of the four who has a brain in his head, which probably means he won’t be allowed to get a word in edgewise.
Nightline got it’s start in the world during the 1980 Iran hostage crisis. originally hosted by ABC newsman Ted Koppel, it’s gone way downhill since he left the show.
All the way down to a group of deluded spirit-lifers vs a group of deluded pixie-fans. Lovely.
I’ll take my life straight up with a beer back.