One of my favorite meetings is the annual Society for Integrative and Comparative Biology meetings. One of my favorite cities to visit is New Orleans, Louisiana. The two pleasures will not be coinciding at any time in the near future because of the ineptitude and inanity of Louisiana’s legislature and governor, Bobby Jindal. Here’s the press release from the LA Science Coalition:
National Scientific Society to Boycott Louisiana over LA Science Education Act
The first tangible results of the Louisiana legislature’s passage and Gov. Bobby Jindal’s signing of the 2008 Louisiana Science Education Act have materialized, and these results are negative both for the state’s economy and national reputation. The Society for Integrative and Comparative Biology, a national scientific society with more than 2300 members, has put Gov. Bobby Jindal on notice that the society will not hold its annual meetings in Louisiana as long as the LA Science Education Act is on the books. In a February 5, 2009,letter to the governor that is posted on the SICB website under the headline, “No Thanks, New Orleans,” SICB Executive Committee President Richard Satterlie tells Jindal that “The SICB executive committee voted to hold its 2011 meeting in Salt Lake City because of legislation SB 561, which you signed into law in June 2008. It is the firm opinion of SICB’s leadership that this law undermines the integrity of science and science education in Louisiana.” [NOTE: Although the legislation was introduced as SB 561, it was renumbered during the legislative process and passed as SB 733.]
Pointing out that SICB had joined with the American Institute of Biological Sciences (AIBS) in urging Jindal to veto the legislation last year, Satterlie goes on to say that “The SICB leadership could not support New Orleans as our meeting venue because of the official position of the state in weakening science education and specifically attacking evolution in science curricula.” Salt Lake City was chosen as the site of the 2011 meeting in light of the fact that “Utah, in contrast, passed a resolution that states that evolution is central to any science curriculum.”
Noting that SICB’s recent 2009 meeting in Boston attracted “over 1850 scientists and graduate students to the city for five days,” Satterlie pointedly tells Jindal that “As you might imagine, a professional meeting with nearly 2000 participants can contribute to the economic engine of any community.” The implication of SICB’s decision for both New Orleans, which is still recovering from Hurricane Katrina, and the entire state of Louisiana is clear. With Gov. Jindal threatening draconian budget cuts to the state’s universities, the loss of such a significant scientific convention will only add to the state’s deepening fiscal crisis.
Satterlie closes by telling Jindal that SICB will join with other groups “in suggesting [that] professional scientific societies reconsider any plans to host meetings in Louisiana.” However, SICB is not the first national scientific society to bring up the subject of boycotting Louisiana. Gregory Petsko, president of the American Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology (ASBMB), has already called for a boycott not only of Louisiana but of any state that passes such legislation: “As scientists, we need to join such protests with our feet and wallets. . . . I think we need to see to it that no future meeting of our society [after the ASBMB’s already contracted 2009 meeting in New Orleans] will take place in Louisiana as long as that law stands.” (See“It’s Alive,” ASBMB Today, August 2008.)
After the Louisiana legislature passed the LA Science Education Act, a total of nine national scientific societies publicly called on Jindal to veto it. He ignored them, as well as everyone else who contacted him requesting that he veto the bill, choosing instead to help execute the agenda of the Louisiana Family Forum (LFF), the Religious Right organization on whose behalf Louisiana Sen. Ben Nevers introduced the bill and on whose behalf Jindal signed it. Jindal is a staunch ally of the LFF. The citizens of Louisiana, whose educational well-being the governor claims to be so concerned about, are now paying the price–literally–for his loyalty to his conservative Christian base.
Sorry, Louisiana. You are a lovely state, but scientists won’t be supporting you as long as you’re going to be dedicated to anti-scientific foolishness.
Other states don’t have cause for complacency, though — creationism is not exclusively a Southern problem. If this keeps up, we may be having all of our scientific meetings in Canada.
Cop out leon. Pascal’s Wager does not get you out of supporting your side here and now. Your type has been predicting the end of the world ever since you all grouped up a couple thousand years ago.
You’re spiraling.
Wowbagger, The Bible’s Buried Secrets addressed that question, and found a story of a man in the Tigris-Euphrates valley who did throw his family and livestock on a barge during a flood, but he, of course, was washed downriver into the Persian Gulf, and later landed on the south shore somewhere (Bahrain?) Definitely not a world-wide flood with the ark coming to rest on a mountaintop. So the biblical story fails.
*waves*
That would be me.
Excellent. It’s always good to have scientists from different disciplines on here, it really helps having a domain expert to explain things.
Leon, still no physical evidence for your imaginary god, no physical evidence showing the bible is anything other than a collection of fairy tales, and failure to cite any peer reviewed primary scientific literature to show that any theory other than evolution is scientific. Utter and total fail all around. Now you are a total liar and bullshitter, and everything you say is considered a lie. You want that to change? Start showing some evidence and quit preaching..
Welcome Josh. We can use your expertise. My last geology course was back when I was a senior, and needed a science distribution credit to graduate. I’ve read a few articles over the years in Scientific American and American Scientist on geology, but I’m hardly an expert.
I’m really glad I took physics in my senior years at school, that along with the mathematics I’ve studied as given me a good base in understanding certain concepts. My knowledge on geology is limited, but radiometric decay (and how to use it) makes sense so when it comes to the question of the age of the earth I’m able to splutter out somewhat of a coherent answer. Memorisation of key evidences is also pretty useful too :P
Leon asserted:
In science, no facts are incontrovertible. That word is used to refer to something that’s not open to question or dispute; something that’s indisputable; it refers to absolute and incontrovertible truth. There are NO FACTS in science that are incontrovertible. Period. You’ll find people, even some on this blog, who will argue that point. They’re wrong. Facts are observations with their associated errors. NONE of them are absolute truth. NONE of them are beyond the possibility of being overturned. Science does not provide absolute truth, NOR DOES ANY RESPONSIBLE SCIENTIST CLAIM THAT IT DOES. Stop lying about what we do (and if there are scientists out there running around asserting that we obtain absolute truth, then they need to back to school, because they missed the whole science part of studying science). And you can of course piss and moan about how geology is worthless if it isn’t provding us with absolute truth, but again, if you’re going to go there, then please stop using the petroleum products that we successfully use this science to provide you with.
I apologize for the yelling, but I’m sick and tired of having to explain this, again and again, to people who appear to have managed to get through school without learning anything. It’s like (bad analogy alert—where’s truth machine?) if I were trying to discuss some aspect of Jesus’s teachings with a Christian and I kept trying to weaken his argument by throwing it in his face that Genesis doesn’t mention Jesus.
Leon then continued:
Topped it off at 6 million? Where the heck do you guys get this stuff?
Really–scientists agreed fully in 1957 that the earth was 600 000 000 years old? Seriously?
http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/031023/inghram-obit.shtml
http://sp.lyellcollection.org/cgi/content/abstract/190/1/205
http://www.minsocam.org/ammin/AM46/AM46_606.pdf
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2406118
This is just with a quick Google search. And that was simply to respond to your point about the alleged consensus of a 600Ma date for the formation of the Earth among geologists at the time. In that search, I completely ignored the major factual issue with your statement: that we had the age of the EARTH set at 600Ma in the late 1950s.
In the late 1950s we had the base of the CAMBRIAN placed at about 500-520Ma
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v183/n4663/abs/183768a0.html
…and I’m going to go out on a little limb here and assert that NO reputable geologist in 1957 thought that the entire Precambrian rock record was laid down in the 80-100 million years prior.
e.g., see:
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a781009244~db=all
http://www.springerlink.com/content/wh32g60m27846547/
You are just simply wrong on this issue.
Nerd, thanks. FYI, I was part of the Silver Fox bashing on the recent Brunswick thread and helped to spank around HeWhoYouDespise on the Evolutionary Gems thread. I’m here pretty frequently, but I don’t usually comment unless there’s something specific to the army, earth science, science process, or evolution that I think I can offer.
I just posted a reply to Leon’s “the scientists all thought the world was 600 million years old in 1957” comment, but it’s held up for PZ’s review since I included a bunch of links.
A successful professor from Southern California whom I heard about when contemplating buying crown land in central British Columbia said that people today with their higher education are so smart, they’re stupid. He proceeded to explain why he left a stable prominent career and traded it all for a parcel of land and began settling down as a homesteader. I was very comfortable in life at the same time and wondered what would make a person do such an irrational thing, I mean uprooting his entire family and subjecting them to a life such as that.
Although he wasn’t detailed about his reasoning, he did say he had enough of a system that was totally corrupt and delusional. He also said that society was slowly becoming adaptable to their version of right and wrong and would become a danger to itself as it became seperated from divine standards. He never mentioned if he was religious.
This was over 40 years ago in a MaCleans magazine as I waited a doctor’s appoinment.
I finished reading the article and thought what a crackpot, leaving all this.
That’s also about the time I decided to visualize what this life was all about. I never thought it would lead up to where I am now.
Up until ten years ago did I fully conprehend how certain dates in history would make me understand the present.
607 BCE to 1914 CE– 1879 Pennsyvania and 1935. If I hadn’t realized the significance of those dates I probably would have went back to school become educated and delussional like all of you ridiculers on here and attacked this Leon Flamick idiot just as you are now.
I learned all about evolution while in school, creationism didn’t come about to much later. My father when he came out of the army in 1945 after Europe was liberated from the Nazi’s saw atrocities committed by the churches that cemented a religious free environment for his family. I grew up without God and that’s why evolution became so adaptable in my early years despite its discrepancies. In the meantime all I ever knew about religion and God was what I heard.
When I ventured on my own that’s when my creationism hunt began. After studying with various religions I became more delussioned than all of you are now, and probably would have accepted the brainwashing effect of evolution if it wasn’t for one small piece of factual evidence in scripture at Acts 17: 24.
So I asked God if he was there, where the hell are you and why the confusion in this so called Bible guidance book. It didn’t happen over night but eventually he answered.
I know what the true faith is, I know who God is and I know exactly why were here, why the 20th century became more outstanding than in any other time period in man’s history. I also know God has an active force that counteracts an entity force that will infuence the minds of even the greatest of men, more-so in these last days.
I am grateful that my heart never became obstinate as all of you, where I would be forced to accept and endorse a lie as great as the theory of evolution. Despite your amazing educational accomplishments, mathematical skills and your ability to use words, this is as far as your gonna go.
You see, Christ spoke of people like you who will ridicule others who have come to realize how corrupt and delusional this system really is, like that professor from California.
When your world begins crumbling around you, only then will you individuals ever see how blind you really are as your decision to turn your back on your creator has sealed your fate. You have already been judged.
When that day comes, you’ll be standing around the ruins of this system of things and a message will be related to you…”they will all know that I am Jehovah!” Then as quickly as that message is said, your thoughts of evolution, your loves, your hates, your accomplishments, will be gone……”forever!” If you have time, mark my words.
This will be my last comment on this board, (I know, good ridance) but as a wise man once quoted…”why waste the wisdom of God on the wisdom of fools knowing they’ll be a trickle of light today, but gone tomorrow.”
We have heard this before. I doubt it.
You are correct about one thing though. A good riddance, if true.
I know this will go unanswered, but I’m curious as to how you see me as having ridiculed you. I merely asked you not to be a hypocrite by mocking my science while using the fruits of it. That’s somehow ridicule? Wow.
Short Leon, WAAAAAAA, WAAAAAA, you guys are meanies for demanding evidence, which I can’t provide due to the religious blinders I wear. WAAAAAA. You don’t listen to my testament because I cannot show evidence my testament isn’t a pile of shit. WAAAAAA
Bye Leon. It has not been a pleasure.
Bye bye! Lunatic.
You have already been judged.
Being judged by an idiot does not bother me in the least.
Damn it Leon. That was another Irony meter. That is two you owe me.
this is what you consider factual evidence?
How is that evidence? That’s just one sentence of circular nonsense.
Email or phone?
No, you don’t. You’ve think you know but you do not know.
If you did it would be easy for you to demonstrate it or at least do a better job explaining it.
But Leon you still haven’t provided us one iota of evidence that you claimed you could. We’re all very curious.
Please satisfy is Leon!
Don’t go Leon.
LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON
On second thought, it’s probably just because you can’t.
Please clean up the various turds you’ve left on the floor here before you go.
Eric Saveau:
I doubt there’s much value to us continuing to discuss the merits of libertarian theory (and I imagine you’re as fed up with it as I am), so probably best if we agree to disagree for the time being.
I want to ask you a question, though. You have, on this thread, described my political thinking as incoherent, sophomoric, juvenile and deluded. I would like to ask (leaving aside your own substantive disagreement with my political ideology): do you, based on your discussion with me here, genuinely think I’m stupid, and are my arguments really too incoherent to understand or follow?
I’m asking this because, in RL, people have said encouraging things about the quality of my political writing; but they could well be lying in order to raise my self-esteem. By contrast, since you and I don’t know each other, and you’ve shown that you’re prepared to pull no punches, I can expect an honest answer from you. Hence why I’m asking whether you genuinely think I, personally, am expressing my ideas in an incoherent and/or objectively unconvincing manner. I don’t want to be one of those pompous pseudo-intellectuals (I’m sure you’ve met people of this type) who thinks his philosophical thought is deep and meaningful, but is actually superficial, boring, and generally mocked behind his back by his peers. If I am in fact one of those people, I’d like to know about it, so that I can do something to change it. So I’m asking you to separate this question from your view of libertarians in general, and simply assess my personal ability to structure and present arguments.
Be advised also Leon, that Odin has watched this entire discussion and is disturbed at your lack of faith. He will be waiting to have a little conversation with you when you die.
Don’t forget the rest of us that are sick and fucking tired of it.
You sometimes sail dangerously close to that. For what it’s worth, based on your comments here, you do seem to be improving in that regard.
the goatherder scenario was between me and Walton, so actually in a personal sense its non of your business, but since you already stuck your face in it, I might as well answer you.
Look, dipshit, you’re entertaining your “scenario” in the open comments of a widely read blog. You stuck it in my face. If you don’t want responses to your bloviating, post it somewhere else.
Matthew was a tax collector, Luke was a physician, John was a writer, even Job was a partial judge and priest.
Nonsense. Job is a fictional character. The traditional attributions of the gospels are the fabrications of 2nd and 3rd century church fathers trying to establish authority via the “apostolic succession.” If the author of Luke/Acts was actually the physician, Luke, missionary companion of Paul, why does his account of Paul’s mission in Acts flatly contradict Paul’s own writings on so many substantive points? If Matthew, supposedly a disciple of Jesus and thus an eyewitness to many of the events in the gospel, was actually the author of the gospel bearing his name, why did he reproduce nearly all of Mark (traditionally not attributed to an eyewitness, but to the “interpreter of Peter”) and make his central narrative conform to it so closely? In short, why is a supposedly eyewitness account so dependent on an earlier, anonymously written, story?
It’s amazing that even after the evidence was brought up, all he could do was preach. Leon you deluded old twit, if you think that your side contains evidence and our side doesn’t, then surely you won’t mind reading what evidence our side has. Instead what do we get? You preaching that God is true then running off. No response to anything scientific (which despite there being centuries of accumulated evidence you assert doesn’t show anything) just preaching your God as if that’s a comparable outcome. Silly old man, you know nothing and you’ll die ignorant.
Me @ #456:
Which was, of course, a reference to Nick Burns, Your Company’s Computer Guy. I looked for the video online, but SNL makes everyone take tham down; it occurred to me that without the video link, though, people probably wouldn’t get it and the Rev. might be offended or just perplexed, so I wanted to clarify. Months and months ago, someone was saying that she didn’t understand something computer-related but was too embarrassed to tell the IT guys because they might think she was an idiot, Rev. responded that she needn’t worry since they think everyone’s an idiot, and it made me think of that skit.
@SC
I take offense to the portrayal of IT in that skit. Any IT worker worth their salt can abuse end users remotely. There is no need to mingle with yucky scientists. Besides, have you ever had the “pleasure” of being in the same area as a decomposing manatee? It makes tele-abuse a necessity.
I was perplexed, it’s really really hard to offend me.
But Now it all makes sense as I have been accused of being that guy. Though thankfully my position keeps me out of the trenches …… mostly.
And as another wise man once said:
Hit the Road Jack
Wow! Just! Wow!
seconded.
too insane to stay..
“Dean…read the entire chapter of Matthew 24 and take a look at 2 Timothy 3 1-7 of which I have partially covered above.”
I have – but you didn’t answer the question. Let me try again: how do you know those are facts? What supports the stories?
Wow, where are you skeptics now huh? You habitual critics are totally useless, that’s all you’re good for unless you have someone to attack, what’s matter can’t communicate in a civilized matter among yourselves. Go figures huh, non of you could ever cut it in the real world, so when you pack of wolves get done patting yourselves on the back, you go hide in your phoney books about evolution and await for another prey. Non of you could ever go a one on one confrontation because you would be ripped to pieces, so I leave for 4-5 days and you all dry up like a bunch of prunes, lol.
The only one who has any intelligence among the works of you is Walton. Your education is pure vanity. I’ll await your inevitable asinine comments.
Does pointing out the fact that PZ adds a couple of new threads a day and we can’t be bothered checking old ones to see if some clueless hack we’d all tired of kicking around has turned up to spew any more incoherent drivel count as an asinine comment?
You want to keep arguing, post in a more recent thread. If people can’t see a thread is active, they won’t bother looking for it.
Sheesh. It’s like I’m teaching remedial blogging for the perenially stupid.
Still here. Was there anything else we needed to add in this thread that you thought was lacking? Did you expect the conversation to go on in this old thread in your absence? Did you bother to read up on those science books yet, or are we meant to do all the learning for you?
Leon is a true, unthinking godbot. We’ll have to do science for him. Leon, you are nowhere near the center of our existence. We care zero about your less than cogent opinions. So why do you have to keep expressing them?
Talk about a perenially stupid Wowbagger, you came back didn’t you.
Kel, there’s nothing you or anyone else can add to make this conversation anymore than a one sided gang bang. As I said before, you people go on a free for all attack on opposers because that is all you know. Yeah I’ve read most of those link articles you all were kind enough to give and I find nothing that could relate or support what any of you said on here, just like in the case of creationism. All these theories came from the minds of men, that’s far from proof that anything relating to evolution ever occured.
Nerd, I like how you worded your comment centred around your existence as if the entire universe rovolves around you. Why do I keep expressing my opinions: is because I have the right to, just as you and anyone else on this board.
Leon, your opinion, since it is uninformed, is worth zero. Give it if you must, until you get tired, or PZ bans you for being boring, which you are. We are still waiting for your evidence that your imaginary god exists, and that your book of fiction called the bible is anything else than fiction. We will wait for you to actually prove something. So far, Yawn.
All these theories came from the minds of men, that’s far from proof that anything relating to evolution ever occured.
???
So, if we’ve used our minds to come to a conclusion, it’s invalid? What the hell else is there?
I suppose you’ll claim that you are in possession of truths not “from the minds of men” but from some other source. Please explain how your mind was not involved in determining the validity of these truths and their source outside your mind.
You’re right. One side is looking to science, the other is covering his eyes and screaming “no it isn’t!” The simple fact is that so much of what you are saying is known to science, and science knows a whole lot more than contradicts specifics of your position. And it’s irrelevant that many of us are pointing out that fact to you, and if you would actually open a science book (again I reccommend Your Inner Fish by Neil Shubin) you would see for yourself.
irony meter meltdown
Insult FAIL.
No, Leon. A gang-bang has two sides; the bangers and the bangees. What you’re referring to is a circle jerk – and we leave that to you creationist types.
Metaphor FAIL.
Your ignorance is not evidence.
Comprehension FAIL.
Every theory we have came from the minds of humans, Leon. Where else would it have come from? Or you you have a bible that was somehow created without any intervention from humans?
Inclusivity and epistemology FAIL.
@509 “This will be my last comment on this board”
Leon, you are a liar.
Here’s a page that was written with you in mind:
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/about.php
Leon, I have a theory of my own that I want to share with you. Here are the basics:
1. There is no god or gods; the theory of evolution is accurate.
2. The only supernatural entity in existence is Satan. He didn’t create mankind, but he does have some limited powers than can be quite annoying.
3. Satan wrote the Bible as a means to torment mankind. He wants us to think there is a god and a wonderful afterlife, but there isn’t. He also wrote the Koran, just to stir up trouble. Tricky bastard.
4. Satan planted the idea of intelligent design into some humans’ brains, including yours, as means to create havoc on earth. It appears to be working.
5. Satan occasionally uses his limited powers to create “evidence” of intelligent design. For instance, he might make some organisms appear irreducibly complex.
Leon, I’m pretty sure I have as much evidence for my theory as you have for creationism. In fact, your belief in ID/creationism simply plays into Satan’s hands. You are doing his bidding. You are his unwitting pawn. Please renounce Satan by renouncing intelligent design.
Of course, if you can provide evidence that I’m wrong about any of this, I’m sure we would all be relieved. I know it’s a difficult task to prove the nonexistence of Satan–sort of like asking an atheist to prove there is no god–so I’ll wish you luck in discrediting my theory.
I want to know how Leon thinks the bible is not a man-made enterprise. Did God physically come down to earth to write it? Did he force the hand of mortal men, thus negating free will? What about holy books of other religions? How were they written? Is the Koran really the literal transcribed word of God?
I want to know how Leon thinks the bible is not a man-made enterprise. Did God physically come down to earth to write it? Did he force the hand of mortal men, thus negating free will? What about holy books of other religions? How were they written? Is the Koran really the literal transcribed word of God??
Sadasaa, the Bible was written by man from inspiration of God. Works the same way as a secretary writing down the words of her corporate boss, his words, her writings. The men who wrote the scriptures did it willingly.
Considering there is only one religion mentioned in the Bible then following the examples of Christ and his apostles would make all the other holy writings false.
Ben, excellent theory. I believe Hollywood is looking for fantasy and sc-fi writers, might be an opportunity waiting for you.
I know I said it would be my last comment, but it looked rather lonely on here and its actually quite amuzing watching intelligent minds spew off about nothing.
Wowbagger, I would say my comment was 100% successful and it proves how correct I was in #528 about all of you.
Nerd, just by looking into a mirror and examining your features as a living being is proof that God exists. Do you think for a minute that humans evolved from any other source other than creation? How does the earth spin on its axis and keep temperatures in moderation in order to sustain life? Very simple, a highly intelligent being is keeping everything in motion, non of this ever happened by chance.
You people are so brainwashed and so easily led about this evolution crap, it wouldn’t matter about evidence, it matters all of what you wanna hear. You wish to discredit God all for the sake of putting yourselves on a petestal & saying, “Look, I’m smarter than your God!”
Leon, massive failure on your part again. Rule one, your opinion is not evidence. Evidence is something physical that can be examined.
Proof for the bible being divinely inspired. Zip, nada, zilch. Failure.
God existing. No burning bush or equivalent. Zip, nada, zilch. Failure.
Leon, you are the one who is brainwashed by your own ignorance. Come back with some real evidence or shut up.
Damn, Leon. You are so bloody stupid, you do not realize that this is an active blog. The reason why the thread is quiet is because it is old and that dozens of new thread have come and gone, one with over eleven hundred statements.
Also, as it has been pointed out to you repeatedly, the simple fact that you are ignorant and that you love to flaunt it does not mean that any of us have to respect it. It is also the height of hilarity to see you call people, so much more intelligent and better educated than you, dumb.
Please, you troll, keep stomping about. You have nothing. But watching you roll in your shit and fling it about does have an element of comedy.
Leon #542 wrote:
No; what this is really about isn’t evolution, or even the existence of God. It is about method.
Might you be wrong? And if you are wrong, what would it take for you to recognize that, and change your mind?
Apply those questions to both Creationism, and God.
Might you be wrong — species really did evolve from earlier species? If so, then what kind of evidence would persuade you?
Might you be wrong — and there is no God, and has never been one. If so, then what, specifically, would have to happen to convince you to change your mind?
Method, method, method. Not the conclusions, but why you arrived at them, and how you hold them.
If you cannot answer those questions, you have no standing in any discussion on that topic. After all, we would all have found the Infallible Being Who Cannot Be Wrong. Not God, but you.
the Bible was written by man from inspiration of God. Works the same way as a secretary writing down the words of her corporate boss, his words, her writings.
Of course, Muslims say the same thing about the Qur’an, that Allah dictated it to Muhammed. How are we to determine which is the true revelation?
Also, however much “inspiration” you want to claim for the NT, a couple hundred years of textual criticism have revealed that the gospels are very typically human-invented fictions, with all the elements and hallmarks of mythmaking, not history. The canonical gospels also contradict each other. If god had wanted, couldn’t he have inspired a self-consistent history, or a believeable biography?
Leon, the great thing about my theory is that you can’t refute it–even though it’s total nonsense, just like creationism and the bible.
And you don’t see the irony when you wonder why nobody can prove that God doesn’t exist.
What a pinhead.
Likely your parents are to blame. I’m sure they brainwashed you at an early age. They abused you, Leon, and you should be angry at them for it. Because you had abusive parents, you’re replacing them with your imaginary sky daddy. Pathetic.
I love Leon’s up is down argument. No evidence for evolution and there’s evidence for god. We’re the ones indoctrinated into dogma. Nice.
Are you a swedish swimsuit model too? Because that would just seal the deal.
Leon,
We are the ones who have been talking about evidence. I can and have listed dozens of lines of evidence (let alone the millions of pieces of evidence in each line) that show the earth to be more than 6000 years old and that life evolved. What have you done? Dismissed it off-hand as nothing more than speculation and got your information from a 3000 year old myth that isn’t even consistent with itself. You are doing nothing more than projecting for the fact that science and those who are scientifically minded have based their conclusions on evidence while you haven’t.
Why don’t you show where the science is wrong rather than dismiss it offhand. Why is it we see galaxies 13 billion light years away (and about 100,000,000,000 of them in between)? why is it that old rocks are dated to over 4 billion years ago? Why is it that there’s ice core layering of hundreds of thousands of layers? Why is there a progressive fossil record of life? Why are there explicit markers of common descent? The science is there for all that and more, yet all you can do is dismiss it without consideration. Why? Because of a story involving a talking snake… somehow it’s easier to believe that almost every scientist has been wrong for about 100 years than it is for a bunch of goat herders 3000 years ago to be.
For fucks sake Leon, if you believe in God and believe that God gave you a brain, why the hell would God not want you to use it?
I Googled Leon. We are dealing with a true nutcase.
What are the Jews? Chopped liver?
There are two religions discussed in the Bible and several others mentioned in it.
So I guess Ramses believed in the single god Yahweh and Baal was a hebrew god.
“Nerd, just by looking into a mirror and examining your features as a living being is proof that God exists.”
No it isn’t.
“Do you think for a minute that humans evolved from any other source other than creation?”
Yes.
“How does the earth spin on its axis and keep temperatures in moderation in order to sustain life?”
It just does.
“none of this ever happened by chance.”
Actually, it did.
(Don’t mind me, just trying to make Leon’s head explode)
I doubt there’d be enough inside to cause a mess…
Wowbagger, that is not fair. All of the flying rocks could cause some damage and leave a mess. It could harm near by people.
Go, Rey! I am sure you can light the fuse.
Its trully amazing how an old grade 8 dropout can get you university genuises so riled up over such a controversial subject. You genuises should know that I’mm not arguing about the righful proprties of science, I’m just supporting creationism as opposed to ones who completely deny the esistence of God. They conclude that he doesn’t exist period…and be damned if anyone else argues the point.
Rey…your answers to my comments
“No it isn’t.”
“Yes.”
“It just does.”
“Actually, it did.”
And Wowbagger & Janine are cheering you on for such asnine comments. I was calling most educated people dumb, but not all, not for intelligence, but for the stubborness that you believe you are so much smarter than anyone else. If anyone could evaluate your reactions on here, they’d conclude that were dealing with a bunch of 6 year kids, rather than responsible adults.
In Ephesains 4: 4-6, it mentions only one faith, one God, one baptism, yes there were other religions present, but only one is acceptable to the true God.
The Jews had a covenant arrangement with their God Yahweh, but they vilated it to the point of God’s repercussions first in 607 BCE and finally after 70 CE. The Nation of Israel is no longer God’s chosen people.
I googled Ben…approach with caution, as his evaluations of others refects totally on his own imperfections. Oh by the way Ben, I never said the earth was 6000 years old, even I know its much older than that. I just don’t swallow your 4 billion year exaggerated figures.
CJO, its rather simple don’t you think, that Islam never came into existence till long after the Hebrew God Yahweh established the Nation of Israel as his chosen people.
Sastra…I could say the same to you and say “might you be wrong.” If God never existed, then all of us would not exist. Things do not happen or exist by chance. The Evolution theory carries no merit without creationism, what would it take to change your mind.
Nerd…you call “zip, nata, zilch words used entirely on your accord success logics.
No thanks, I’ll stick with creationism, at least it has a future!
The Jews had a covenant arrangement with their God Yahweh, but they vilated it to the point of God’s repercussions first in 607 BCE and finally after 70 CE. *citation needed* (from a reliable source, not the bible, and for each of the 2 clauses of that sentence)
Leon, still not getting it. Your posts are long on worthless opinion, and short on real evidence. You still have not shown any evidence for your imaginary deity, nor any evidence to show the bible is not a work of fiction. Keep plugging away. You actually may surprise us with a cogent, evidence based post yet. Maybe in twenty years or so.
That explains a lot tbh. Please pick up a science book before you decide to speak on the subject again.
Leon, the controversy is in your mind only. Evolution exists until you provide another scientific theory, one in the peer reviewed primary scientific literature. Yawn, still waiting. Your god doesn’t exist, and your bible is fiction. Still waiting for third party evidence for either assertion. Yawn. You are just a boring ignorant troll.
Figures. Only someone that ignorant an uneducated could actually believe that these things you have been saying have any validity what so ever.
And just to be clear 8th grade drop outs can make valid arguments, you just don’t happen to be one of those.
Your parents, Leon. Your parents. Blame them.
A realiable source, not the Bible, that’s like saying the same to get a realiable source not from science books.
Nerd…my posts are worthless to you and ones who think along your lines only. Matthew chapter 24 deals with many of the prophecies that have occured during our last century, try and deny that. Does not 2 Timothy 3: 1-7 discribe the attitudes of people living today, especially you posters. Evolution will exist as long as people like you have a vivid imagination. Fron your comments and replies its no wonder Louisiana boycotts science.
Rev.. you are educated and look at the trash you’re throwing on here, a real prize work of intelligence. Sometimes truth is a little stranger than fiction.
Ben…is that all you could come up with, when its obvious your parents sure wasted a pile of money on your education.
Just a bunch of puffed up habitiual critics, that’s all you people are, even your insult replies do not carry the creative merit from people of your status.
Leon the Bore. Still no third party evidence to back up any assertion. Fail at proving god. Fail at proving the bible isn’t fiction. Fail at proving your testament isn’t false. Yawn.
No Leon it’s nothing like that.
Science books contain information that is verifiable, today. Right now. The experiments and research are testable and repeatable.
Your analogy is horrible and once again shows that you don’t have a fucking clue what you are talking about.
How in the world did you guys dredge that old wanker up? Knockgoats will be jealous.
Ok show me what trash.
Then go back and read all of my comments and actually answer the questions I asked you instead of dodging them, ignoring them or changing the subject.
Also go back and visit the links in comment #245 and tell me that there isn’t anything back evolution. Tell me which of those referenced article is wrong and why.
You’ve done little but dodge and move goal posts this entire thread.
typos. pfft
backing and articles.
Leon Flamick #556 wrote:
Yes, I might be wrong, and I could change my mind — but I asked you first ;)
I didn’t ask “what do you think it would look like if God never existed?” I asked a different question.
We’re starting out with where we are. The world as we both experience it. Now, here is the question:
Could you be wrong about Creationism? Is it possible that the Theory of Evolution is correct? I’m not asking if you think it is correct, but might it be?
Can you imagine being wrong?
If it is true that evolution occurred — then what would it take to change your mind? What sort of evidence would you find persuasive?
And I can ask the same question regarding God. Remember, we already know the universe exists.
Might you be wrong — and there is no God, and has never been one? If so, then what, specifically, would have to happen, to convince you to change your mind?
I’m interested in your answers. Thanks.
Leon,
Before science can be put into ‘science books’ it has to be shown to work no matter who does it and where. If it can’t be reproduced it ain’t science. So, even if every ‘science book’ in the world was destroyed* we’d be able to rewrite every single one again.
Your bible, on the other hand, can’t even be translated properly – and that’s when the book is right in front of the guy re-writing it!
So, which do you think is more likely to be the truth?
Here’s a comparison, Leon – if you can sit down and rewrite the bible from memory and get it all correct (pick whichever version you like to replicate) then you might have a point.
Otherwise you can cram your stupid book of archaic fairy tales for losers in your ass. With walnuts.
*No doubt Leon and people like him dream of such a day. Too bad, dumbass – it ain’t gonna happen.
Gosh, I hope he answers soon, my pearl clutching hand is getting all crampy.
Science books (for the most part) are a reliable source because of one thing: they are based upon evidence. When it comes to human origins, and biology / cosmology in general, the bible gets it very wrong. How do we know? For the same reason that we know that when we turn on a computer electron flow through the circuitry that is acting in accordance with quantum mechanics results in billions of calculations a second that allow us to talk from half a world away. We know because we can look at the evidence and then take practical measures to confirm it’s validity.
Methinks you are a hypocrite, using all the technology that science has afforded you to do in order to launch an attack for which without you wouldn’t be able to in the first place. Massive fucking hypocrite, thy name is Leon Flamick.
CJO, its rather simple don’t you think, that Islam never came into existence till long after the Hebrew God Yahweh established the Nation of Israel as his chosen people.
So, the older the tradition, the more we can trust it? That’s your criterion? I guess that explains why you’re such a fervent worshipper of Osiris… wait, you are a worshipper of Osiris, right? The sacrificed and risen savior god-man?
CJO – Pssst! Not so loud. We Sun worshippers do not want Leon to join our congregation.
It never ceases to amaze me at the abject stupidity of creotards like Leon when they post stuff like this.
As for the 4 billion years age for the earth, I had thought it was 4.5 billion, but won’t quibble over 500 million years amongst friends ;) Leon rejects both 6,000 years (what, maybe its 6,742 – dated from April 15th?).
Leon’s “we exist, therefore so does god, so everyone must be wrong WAHHHHH) rubbish gets soooo tedious. Not an original thought in his poor lonely head.
I will reiterate the questions posed above – what would it take to shake your certainty that you are “right”? For all the rants about arrogant, over-educated intellectuals we at least have the honesty to say we can change our minds. I for one will gladly admit my error if god turned up.
Instead you see god in burnt toast as a sign. At least ebay keeps liquidity from trade with nutters outbidding themselves for holy relics. Hey Leon, I have a shroud here and pieces of the cross, wanna make me an offer?
What is your solution Leon, we all drop out of school in year 8 for the greater glory of your fictitious god? Hand medicine over to the clergy and prayer circles? The taliban are doing this in the north of pakistan right now by blowing up girls’ schools.
What niggles you deep down Leon is that you know that you hate science for being just so damned right all the time?
I suspect Leon that this is the crux of your problem. It isn’t that you deny science, you just hate it. But fear not, science loves you, even though you hate it. We will experiment, publish and peer review for you.
The Hindu religion has been around for around 6000 years, twice as long as the Jewish religion. Australian aboriginals have had their dreamtime myth of the giant rainbow serpent for around 40,000 years (that myth is found all over the country as opposed to other stories like the Bunyip that is only found in the south east)
Keeping in motion?
Can I believe my eyes?!?
Man, Leon, you slept through Newton’s discovery that things keep moving unless something stops them! Your physics is four fucking hundred years out of date!!!
Because it’s highly improbable to have exactly zero impulse in any direction, all celestial bodies rotate. To stop any from rotating would require an extremely improbable collision.
It would be very surprising if the Earth did not spin! In fact, I’d consider it good evidence for a miracle.
And temperature… having an atmosphere that contains nitrogen and carbon dioxide is normal. In very broadly the distance the Earth happens to have from the Sun, which is an expected place to find a planet in because it’s a very stable orbit given the sizes of the bodies involved, this means that liquid water exists. The rest follows more or less inevitably — the geochemical carbon cycle taking broad control of the greenhouse effect, and the biochemical carbon cycle later supplying the fine-tuning.
You mean we start out with the assumption that a god exists?
We don’t. That question is completely irrelevant to science.
That’s one opinion. Catholic theology has another. Celebrity deathmatch!!!1!
Ah, the usual ignorance displayed by, so far, every single creationist I’ve come across. Mutation is random, yes — but selection is not! It’s determined by the environment.
Fossil rabbits in Silurian rock would.
It describes the attitudes of people living in any century. There’s nothing special about this one. And the same holds for Matthew 24. Sufficiently vague prophecies, like horoscopes, predict everything and nothing.
4.56. The oldest complete rocks, however, are younger, for reasons such as the moon-forming impact 4.51 billion years ago.
The oldest known zircon grains are 4.4 billion years old, IIRC.
Osiris was an Egyothian god worshipped before the Nation of Israel was led out of captivity. False religion had been cropping up ever since the time of Cain. Jahweh (Jehovah in english) had been worshipped by the Nation of Israel prior, but did not come into a covenant arrangement with their God until they were handed down the ten commandments which also contain the Mosaic Law when they wandered in the desert. Those false religions were allowed to function right down to our day today, but preparations have already taken place to harnest the true religion and all false religion will be exposed and destroyed during the coming tribulation. Next to be cut off will be the entire world empires or governments complete with all its subjects and supporters. After the great battle of Armageddon is over the survivors will clean up this mess your so called science has made of the earth and Jehovah God will usher in his New World Order.
Make note, I have not denied your science, rather just reminding you of the intentional criminal elements of science that man used for his dominate purposes.
Liar!:
Yes, my responses were curt, Leon. But you just waved them away and then started quoting from that old storybook. So we’re really on about equal footing. As for the actual science about it, I’d recommend reading Marjanovic’s comment.
How do you know false religion is false?
Why would false religion “crop up”? If God is real, wouldn’t people just stick with God? Why would they switch to something false? If God is real, wouldn’t he end the false religions as soon as they “cropped up”? Is God too weak to make the effort? Does he just not care?
Leon said, “Ben…is that all you could come up with”
You honestly think I’m going to wrack my brain trying to come up with something clever to say to you? I’ve dealt with pinheads like you in the past, and I know it’s futile. The best I can hope for is that you’ll provide some entertainment value, and so far, ah, not so good. Sure, you’ve said a few truly idiotic things, but you’ll have to step it up if you want to compete with some of the prizewinning bonehead creationists around here. Think big, Leon. Be the king of the boneheads. You can do it. We’re all rooting for you.
Hilarious, Leon talks about false religions, but his, which is also false. Leon, get a clue. Question everything, including your religion. Your god doesn’t exist and the bible is a work of fiction.
Leon, answer my post 567.
Leon Flamick,
These ‘false religions’ that you speak of – how do you know they are false and not your own? Exactly how much examination of other religions did you undertake before you decided, based on the evidence you had gathered and the investigation you had made, that Christianity (specifically your sect out of the many thousands) was the ‘one true’ religion?
Or did you, like the overwhelming majority of the religious, happen to adopt the religion of your parents and/or culture you were raised in?
If the latter, do you consider it good fortune that you weren’t born into a family who worshipped the wrong god – or the right god in the wrong way? Why do you think your god – assuming yours is the right god – hates certain people so much he makes them have to grow up in the wrong religion, where they may never even get a chance to know they’re wrong?
There is not one of you skeptics on this comment board who knows anything about the Bible or creationism to warrant an opinion either. Just because you say the book is a fairy tale or God does not exist does not automatically make it right.
Wowbagger…how do I know of all the false rligions? Very simple actually, read Acts 17: 24, then you tell me. I was born in a non religious home, my father when he returned from the war in 1945 explained about the atrocities the churches committed under Nazi rule especially the Catholic faith. So I was faithless until I quit school and went on my own at 15. When I was 3-4 years old I read an entire Bible cover to cover, didn’t really understand it, loved the historical significance of it, same as I love secular, anicient and local history to this day.
I grew up with the notion if you want to learn something go to the source, so I joined several church denominations eagerly seeking to learn what the Bible was all about.
I spent several years going from church to church asking questions and not getting anywhere. So after a decade or more I realized that the scriptures and the teachings of the church were not always in sync. In the meantime I was already reading many books on evolution being deluusioned on religion like all of you are now. Evolution to you people was acceptable as an alternative to religion, to me it wasn’t an alternative to the scriptures themselves. Another couple decades studying different translations, including the Greek Septuagint and the Latin Vulgate from where the first english Bibles came from, understanding the Bible still wasn’t clear. So didn’t get wind of the scriptures until I decided to ask the author of the holy scriptures himself. Even though I wasn’t answered immediately my questions eventually started to become clear. Until he introduced me to the one and true faith mentioned in scriptures did the Bible begin to make sense and evolution was on the back burner. Now after 25 years knowing what the true religion is and trying hard to find fault in it, this is where I am today going forward into a very bright future and you people…what can I say, this is as far as you’re gonna go.
Were living in an age of human history where great changes are coming, divine changes, where your theory of evolution will die off just like this old system of things.
Leon, quit lying to yourself so you can quit lying to us. We know all the creationism arguments. We also know creationism is not scientific, and just a religious theory with no physical evidence to back it up. Fail again.
We are also very knowledgeable about the bible. For example, I have read it cover to cover twice. Doing so lead to me becoming an atheist. We are also conversant in the areas you keep failing to look at, like the historical putting together of the book. Watch The Bible’s Buried Secrets on PBS, and you will see that the pentarch was put together over several centuries, and rewritten several times in the process. None of the new testament was written at the time of Jesus. Historical fact it is not. Your failure to acknowledge this information shows us your ignorance.
So, before you accuse us of not looking at information, you need to look at information outside of your beliefs.
Your god doesn’t exist and your bible is fiction. Deal with it.
What’s to get? the last female common ancestor of all humanity was around 140,000 years ago, there are several genetic markers that show irrefutably that we have a common ancestor with chimpanzees (and in turn all of life), the fossil record for the descent of man shows a clear progression from ape-like tree-dwellers to upright big brained people we see today. etc. There’s no scientific evidence of creation at all.
For the record I have read genesis. So just what am I missing? I’ve read that story, but the important thing is that I’ve read up on science that talks about the origins of man and the natural history of the cosmos in general. And the two don’t match up.
Leon – You must really be new here. The last thing you want to do is start a Babble quotin’ contest with us. We will make you and gawd cry.
How many medals for Scripture Knowledge have you won?
So it follows that if you want to lear n theology, go to the chuch. If you want to learn science, go to the scientists. Don’t go to church to learn science, you’ve gotten something very wrong there.
The Courtier’s Reply… yet again.
From 4th century theologian: Augustine of Hippo –
This guy lived 1600 years ago!!!
No it’s not! Evolution is the currently best-supported scientific explanation of our origins. It’s no more an alternative to religion than e=mc². And there are plenty of religious people who accept both evolution and God. Most of us here don’t happen to be, but I would guess that very few are atheists purely because of evolution. God’s a silly idea with or without an explanation of our origins.
It’s quite pathetic that you think it has to be one or the other because you are missing out on understanding the world for what it truly is, and if there is a God don’t you think that God gave you a brain in order to use it? See the natural world for what it is, rather than what you wish it to be.
how do I know of all the false rligions? Very simple actually, read Acts 17: 24, then you tell me.
Okay. I tell you, that’s the anonymous author of Luke/Acts, a late first century Christian, puuting words in the mouth of Paul, a mid first century Christian whose actual theology and writings this author either had no knowledge of or deliberately ignored. IOW, that’s Christians defending Christianity. No bias or ulterior motives, there, nosiree, just the Gawds honest truth.
Verily, I say unto you, thou art a moron, Leon. Repent.
I know Hebrew, some Greek, and I’ve read up on the Documentary Hypothesis, which pretty clearly demonstrates that the Old Testament bible is a mishmash of ancient legends and propaganda and laws written by priests. I know that there is no archeological evidence to support anything in the Old Testament earlier than King David… and even that evidence is very spotty at best. Even then, the bible clearly has propaganda and wrongly attributed actions to various of the Israelite kings.
That’s true… it’s not just because we say so. The book is a collection of fairy tales because the book contradicts itself and reality. God does not exist because God does not demonstrate his own existence.
So, you claim that God talks to you…
Say, does God sound exactly like the voice inside your own head; the one you think with? Just asking…
Justin Martyr (AD 100-165) was a pretty smart ol’ geezer too, he said – “And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.”
Can you get the drift there Leon?
I finally got around to watching this last night. Though there wasn’t much in there I hadn’t heard before – one new thing I had never heard was that the Jews were once Canaanites. One thing I found annoying about the show is that it really tried to be sympathetic to believers of the bible.
Kel, I agree with you, but it is a good place for someone like Leon, or any other inerrant believer, to actually see that his bible isn’t as pristine in the making as he makes it out to be. And that it includes obvious falsehoods.
Now Nerd, you are just being naughty. You know that Brother Leon is out gathering stones to join us for the Sunday stoning of Bill Clinton, George Bush and Ted Haggard for adultery.
For jezus said – Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth shall pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fullfilled. Matthew 5:17-18
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for the enforcement of tittles.
I see Leon is quite over you lot and has no intention of answering anyone of you.
I’m with you Leon.
Anyone who can’t see that this mad world isn’t in need of a mighty purging just isn’t worth wasting time on.
I’ve yet to hear of an athiest who hasn’t faced death kicking and screaming. Why wouldn’t they.
“I’ve yet to hear of an athiest who hasn’t faced death kicking and screaming. Why wouldn’t they.”
Yes, the old kicking-and-screaming atheist phenomenon. Well-known throughout the scientific world.
Hey, I have an idea. Let’s make up some more bullshit!
Lisa, show me physical evidence for your imaginary god, and your imaginary after-life. Until you do, it is all bullshit.
Isn’t it fun to make unfounded generalizations?
Here’s one: I’ve yet to hear of a Jesus freak who wasn’t a smug, delusional fuckwit.
Ben… why would you like to make up more BS, when you have more than enough already. I’m not sure if there are any Jesus freaks on this board to mention, but I noticed most of the reply’s from here are a little smug and delusional.
Patricia…”How many metals for scriptural knowledge have you won?” Is that what you think this is all about? The scientist who can convince the most people to accept his theories, is he the winner? The one with the highest rating PHD’s, is his word law regardless if lesser ones are opinionated differently.
Nice of you to quote Matthew 5: 17-18, but it would benefit you more if you learned to read it accurately and correctly. In fact read the entire 5th chapter, many of you who have open minds as you claim, could learn something, especially verse 11 & 12.
11: Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against you for my sake. 12 Rejoice and leap for joy, since your reward is great in the heavens; for that way they persecuted the prophets prior to you.
I wish to note that the, “reward is great in the heavens,” it does not conclude that I’ll be going there.
Owlmirror…this is where I really wonder if you didn’t have some pull in the education department to get you a certificate to paste on your wall. You conclude: “So, you claim that God talks to you….” With your sarcastic jester set in your mind to impress your peers, you failed to understand a simple logic. I decided to ask the author of the Bible. Since non of you have any accurate knowledge concerning scriptures you would know that it would consist of a silent prayer between you and God. He doesn’t answer prayers from folks who have obstinate heart’s towards his standards and purposes. (I put that in there just in case you mentioned you prayed)! Since God created the human mind, he would have no problem putting the correct answers to simple logical questions concerning his word in there.
Lisa…I have full intentions of answering these genuises, but it will come at a time when God’s word becomes worthy of them. I have given two examples of truth and authenticity according to historical facts to prove the Bible nonfictional and still, the replies are the same, ridicule, ridicule, ridicule.
I see the Nerd has wasted no time in replying to you. Such an anxious young fellow he is, also desperately trying to impress his peers. Be careful, there are alot of educated wolves in sheeps clothing protraying themselves as 6 year old kids on here, but stand firm and truth will always prevail.
Ah, more mendacious garbage from Leon. Leon, you god doesn’t exist and your bible is fiction. Prove me wrong. So far, massive failure on your part. First, prove god with physical evidence that can be examined by scientists, magicians, and professional debunkers to confirm divinity. Second, prove the bible is historically accurate via third party verification, and a signed letter from god stating it is his word. Only then, can you legitimately quote bible for being authoritative. You have a lot of work to do. Get cracking.
We’re not worthy. Boo-fucking-hoo!
Now go away and take your superstitious nonsense with you.
Leon, I couldn’t care less about “God’s word,” all I want to know is what evidence there is behind a certain idea. Show evidence as to why evolution is false, why the earth is young, and why saying Goddidit is anything more than an expression of your own ignorance.
Leon the cloudy
Oh really. How about you test us? I guarantee there are plenty of us who know enough to know just how much bullshit it is.
Go ahead Leon.
on the other hand we know for sure you don’t know enough about science to make any assertions about it.
Lisa
Why is it you types can never spell atheist correctly?
Cool. Great. Fantastic.
Can you ask God to put the correct answer in your mind to the simple logical question of whether all of the animals were created after man, or before man… and why the bible has it both ways? And while you’re at it, could you ask why the bible says that insects go on four legs?
I have a few more simple logical questions, but let’s see how God does with those.
No, you moron – try reading for comprehension.
In science, the scientist who can show how his or her hypothesis is supported by evidence is the one who is the ‘winner’. If the other scientists can’t reproduce the first scientist’s findings, their work is worthless – no matter how many PhDs they have.
This is one of the many reasons science beats religion hands-down. We get to see evidence for it right in front of us – not have to rely on books written anywhere from hundreds to thousands of years ago.
And apart from anything else, you’re dodging the issue – you claimed no-one here had the requisite biblical knowledge; Patricia and the others have proved you wrong.
Are you really this dense Leon?
Evolution says nothing about religion. Nothing. It is, in simple terms, an explanation for the biodiversity on earth and how it go to be this way. Period.
The more you say things like that, the more you expose the fact that you don’t have a clue what you are talking about.
I don’t need an alternative to religion. I do without. I see to reason to replace silly irrational beliefs with something.
Leon, science says absolutely nothing about god one way or the other. It just explains the world without the need to invoke imaginary deities. Science is constantly updating as new information and evidence becomes available. The last time your holy book was updated was 1600 years ago. Since then, it has been a static document. Any errors in the original have been magnified by bad translations. I prefer science since does change with new information. It corrects the errors that creep in. Your bible study doesn’t correct anything.
jesus. I’ve been at an Oyster Raost all day and it is showing.
“I see NO reason….”
Leon, germ theory could also be seen as an alternative to religion. Why not mention that? Leon, why don’t people (besides me) worship Thor anymore? Leon, did you know that before people understood what strokes were and what caused them, it was thought that people who suffered strokes were simply struck down by a higher power? Do you consider knowledge of the cardiovascular systems to be “an alternative to religion”? What about neurology? No? So what’s the deal with evolution? You can’t accept it because it skirts a little too close to puncturing your little creation myth? Well guess what: it’s not an alternative to anything. It’s a scientific theory that does an excellent job of explaining the diversity of life on earth. Why are you so threatened by that?
sigh
roast
Rev. BDC, we forgive your typos, if you forgive ours. Bless us FSM. Raman.
Leon, I have read all those verses, over, and over and over. Like about half the people here, that’s how I ended up an atheist. The bible is crap.
One thing that has come from this discussion is quite obvious. For the most part, theists have no idea of what it even means to be an atheist – let alone have the capacity to talk to an atheist on a level that works. Know thine enemy Leon, lest you look the fool.
“Anyone who can’t see that this mad world isn’t in need of a mighty purging just isn’t worth wasting time on. ”
And you’ll know they are Christians by their love.
So who should be in charge of the purging? And will they be using nuclear or conventional weapons?
How was the beer?
Good!
I’m getting bored with you Leon, but you could answer a question for me that none of the other godbots will. Why are you here?
The way I understand it, oysters and beer work at cross-purposes.
Only for people not from the south….
/ducks and runs
Which is, in and of itself, bizarre – because every theist is, by definition, an atheist to all the gods other than their own. And, as Silver Fox demonstrated after making his egregious error regarding disproof, they have no argument to refute that.
So it all comes down to ‘I’m right about my god because I really, really, really want to be right and feel special because I have an invisible best friend’ – and that’s it.
Patricia…”why am I here?” Well there was a misinformed individual on here that was completely denying creationism, so I decided to comment in support of it. I’m also here to prove that just because you have a well advanced education and a PHD up the wingwang doesn’t always mean you are correct.
You say you read those verses over and over and over. Well I’ll say it to your face…”No…no you did not.” If you did read them, you would have known those prophecies did indeed take place in the last century and are taking place to this very day. Give ya simple facts that actually occured and you deny it.
Try and tell me World War I and WW II didn’t take place, tell me there hasn’t been earthquakes in greater intensity that have not taken place. You should re-read your own science journals. Pestilences, science has cured them all huh. Even though science has indeed made life a little easier compared to less technical days, but it sure has created more evil intentions than good hasn’t it? It has developed smart bombs, atomic bombs, nuclear bombs, good feat if you love expensive fireworks. It has created a society of wasters, polluters, has developed technology that has destroyed most of the earth’s natural watersheds and…in a relatively short period of time. Think of it genuses…dah, ya can’t exist without air & water. I remember dipping a glass into Lake Erie in 1952 and actually still be able to drink the water. Gawd, now you can’t even swim in it. Gee people that’s even science I can believe in.
Kseniya…Take a look, I’m not threatened by evolution at all, but you people sure are threatened by creationism and that’s a fact!
Leon, still no evidence for your imaginary deity, and not proof your bible is inerrant. You like lying and bullshitting. We aren’t scared of creationism, the religious idea. We merely want it to be taught where it belongs, which is in a class of comparative religion or mythology. Since creationism isn’t scientific, it has no place being mentioned in science classes, except as an example of pseudoscience.
Quit lying to yourself, so you can quit lying to us.
Carl Sagan.
Now you have.
You’re welcome.
Oh my, technology of any sort can be so bad. With a stick with a dull point, I can kill a person. With a two feet long piece of twine, I can choke a person.
Oh, Leon, doubt very much you would have any desire to swim in the Thames in the fourteenth century.
Also, Leon, you a gibbering idiot not because you lack a PhD. It is because you are very dumb.
Isaac Asimov was another.
You have lacked much experience in your life. What a sheltered life you must have had up to this point.
Leon – Thank you for answering. I do not agree with you. In the past 50 years I was a christian I’ve studied the bible through and through. I’ve read the gnostic gospels, apologetics, early christian history, etc. Can you honestly say you believe in dragons and unicorns? Do you think you can move mountains by faith? Do you speak in tongues, cast out devils and take up poisonous snakes? If you cut your hair and shave your beard you’re headed for hell – or is that not in your bible? You scoff at my Scripture medals, why? Because I dared to speak in church?
Leaving the faith caused me a great deal of heartache, but I couldn’t go on living a lie. There is no evidence for god. Not just the christian god, every god.
This isn’t a good place for you Leon. Your condescending sexist manner and belief in the supernatural will get you nothing but grief. Again, thank you for your answer. I don’t like it – but you did answer – to my face.
(first time a man’s ever done that.)
My best advise to you, is to tell us all that we are going to hell, and to fuck off, then leave. I’ve just been kinder to you than any other christian thats come here.
Patricia, he may have answered you but it is not much of an answer. That excuse would work on almost any semi respectable science site. I think Leon was trying to be snarky but fell short.
Oh, and you probably don’t think there are any of us in foxholes, either, right?
*waves*
More intense than what? Over what time period are you referring to? What the hell are you talking about?
Janine – Leon is giving me the typical sit down and shut up you damned god cursed woman routine. I’ve heard it for so many years I’m immune to it.
He is doing as god commands, this is how the fundie man speaks to women. I am the master, you are an abomination cursed with filth, commanded by gawd to shut up. Your accomplishments mean nothing, how dare you even address me. Keep to your place and serve me woman. My grandfather, born in 1899, was exactly Leon’s kind of christian. Hard to believe isn’t it?
This is the sort of behavior that needs to be paraded down main street. When people see Leon types they are aghast that such small minded hate filled attitudes can exist in 21st century America. He’s a fundie poster boy.
Oh, kack!
I beg everyone’s pardon for speaking fundie here. There’s no excuse for such foul mouthed behavior. Sorry.
Just curious Patrica, what were your husbands religious beliefs before and after you decided to give up the faith?
Sadly, it is not just old fundies like Leon. Think of all the moronic young men who like to shout “Shut up and make me a sandwich” at women in a position of power. I wish I could feel aghast but I know better.
I missed this bit of silliness from Leon:
In 1952 the Cuyahoga River, which flows into Lake Erie, caught fire. In 1969 Time magazine reported:
Ignorance sure is bliss if in 1952 Leon thought that drinking water from Lake Eire was safe.
For the umpteenth time, Leon – everything in science can be demonstrated, by anyone and to anyone, whether they have an education to PhD level or otherwise. Anything anyone’s claimed here has been tested, re-tested and analysed hundreds, if not thousands of times.
We don’t hang around labs with a guy in a white coat up at the pulpit saying ‘I have demonstrated evolution is valid’ and just accepting it without anything to back it up. We leave that kind of unburdened-by-evidence credulity to the religion, which praises ignorance and loathes learning – just like in the fairy tale of Adam and Eve.
You may accept things because people – your minister/priest/padre whatever you want to call them – say so, either in person or in the bible. We don’t.
‘Tis Himself, I could not find a clip of this on YouTube but the lyrics are funny.
Burn On- Randy Newman
There’s a red moon rising
On the Cuyahoga River
Rolling into Cleveland to the lake
There’s a red moon rising
ON the Cuyahoga River
Rolling into Cleveland to the lake
There’s an oil barge winding
Down the Cuyahoga River
Rolling into Cleveland to the lake
There’s an oil barge winding
Down the Cuyahoga River
Rolling into Cleveland to the lake
Cleveland city of light city of magic
Cleveland city of light you’re calling me
Cleveland, even now I can remember
‘Cause the Cuyahoga River
Goes smokin’ through my dreams
Burn on, big river, burn on
Burn on, big river, burn on
Now the Lord can make you tumble
And the Lord can make you turn
And the Lord can make you overflow
But the Lord can’t make you burn
Burn on, big river, burn on
Burn on, big river, burn on
Thanks, Janine, for the lyrics. They were running through my head when I made the post about the Cuyahoga.
Kel – He was a Lutheran that went to church on Easter and Christmas as a child.
My grandfather thundered over my marrying a heathen, and – you’ll love this – someone that didn’t own land near ours.
As soon as my grandfather died my parents dropped church. I carried on with one of my two brothers.
We grew up on a very rural farm. Town was a population of about 125. All of the people I knew were fundies, there were twelve kids in my class at school. Although one year we did surge to seventeen!
Truthfully, I hope I am the last generation to be so stoopid. But when I see stuff like that Mormon ranch in Texas, I despair.
When I gave up the bullshit my husband was joyous. Finally! Then we bought old Harley’s and took off.
Thanks for sharing, it’s always curious how these things work. Relationships tend to complicate everything :P
I did enjoy that comment, hilarious.
Hitting the road on old Harley’s. A fairy tale ending.
So becoming a heathen turned you into a biker babe? Too cool! At the Chicago Dyke Marches, my fav part is always the Dykes On Bikes. Not saying you are a dyke, just that it does make my heart flutter.
Well sort of a biker babe. We went to Sturgis and Commander Cody concerts. When Steppin Wolf came to Independence, Oregon we were there.
My life has been a very weird trip. *grin* I was at the last Grateful Dead concert at Autson Stadium, hugely chopped up salad.
Spelling sucks. Blame the Chimp.
Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure. Blame the chimp
just because I’ve been to sturgis and seen over a hundred and some odd dead shows is no reason to blame me.
Jerry doesn’t have anything to do with it.
Nerd – If you like old Harley’s I got a garage full for you.
The Anti-Christ, a super raked out XLCH with a coffin tank. We don’t ride it any more because our kidneys can’t take that hard tailed bastard.
My bike, a 1957-1993 wonder. Named Spare Parts, because thats what it is. Made out of junk parts. Cost, about $250 dollars for tires and license. Took about three years to get the damned thing to run right. Laugh if you will, but a $250 Harley Davidson is an amazing thing.
Then there’s our real Harley, a 1975 – 74 Shovelhead. I’ll quit here, because I’ve run on too long. You get the point.
Biker “chicks”
teh awesome
Chimp – your cooties have been on a long strange trip.
Janine…of course I can be dumb, can’t we all. Its just I don’t have such a classy name as you. Actually Janine, as much as you want to believe, if the individual would just have said nothing about creationism, I probably wouldn’t have responded.
Patricia…I commend you for your mannerism, even though we do not agree on spiritual matters. I understand your motivations for becoming an atheist. Can you honestly tell me one thing, have you ever studied the scriptures totally free of church taught religions. I know that may sound almost impossible, because after all, where would you learn from? But its true, you must cut off all influence from religions, every single bit, pray to the true God in private to give you insight on the scriptures. Once you show sincereity in heart, he will answer you…gaurantee.
“Leon is giving the typical sit down and shut up you damned god cursed woman routine.” Sorry dear, you’re no where near the truth of the matter. I treat my wife the way the Bible actually demands a man to treat her. The Bible says in Gen. 3: 16 To the woman (God) said:…..your craving will be for you husband, and he will dominate you. This verse was not to be taken literally as a command, rather it acknowledges God’s insight of what man will actually do, once the full implications of sins are applied and man becomes selfish and power dominate.
Rather the Bible requires the husband to treat his wife as he would want to be treated, with love and respect. I can get you scriptures that back up those words if you wish. A husband who trully loves his wife will praise her for her accomplishments and sometimes in remote cases seek her advice as the family headship role.
Men who dominate their wives is wrong, because it leads to many selfish abuses that are not deserving of her. Striking a woman for whatever reason is forbidden in my eyes and as well as God’s.
Tis Himself…the lake water was burning from the source of pollution only, the lake at that time was not polluted anywhere near what it is today. Were you there on the beach at Port Burwell Ont. in 1952…I was buddy.
Patricia…just changing the subject a little, my uncle Jack in 1967 after he murdered my aunt Donna, gave me two basket case hogs he had been working on for years, because he knew he was going away for a life sentence. I knew nothing of bikes being a car guy and sold both of them for $300.00. One was a 1955 1200 CC Panhead, hardtail and the other was a 1947 Knocklehead, hardtail with springer front end. The front end on the 55 was raked 10 degrees. I googled both those bikes to see what present day restoration values of them were worth. I could pay my mortgage with the 47 itself. Both were in pieces, but all complete. Decided to share that with you, just a change of pace…you understand.
*cough Deuteronomy 22
Yeah, right.
Since there were “wars and rumors of wars”, “nation rising against nation, and kingdom against kingdom”, and “famines and earthquakes” centuries before Jesus and centuries after Jesus, it obviously follows that Jesus meant “there will be all the usual crap”.
Hey, when it says that “THE STARS WILL FALL”, does that mean all 70 sextillion of them?
Holy Shit!
RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN
Leon, I ask again. When all evidence points to an old universe, an old earth, and a gradual accumulation and diversification of life on earth, what does this tell you about God? Do you think the holy book may require a more allegorical interpretation, or do you believe that God is deliberately being deceptive?
How is that even possible? They were written down by members of churches, copied by members of churches, translated by members of churches, edited by members of churches, selected by members of churches, by members of churches, proofread by members of churches, typeset by members of churches and given final approval by members of churches – all many times over.
Every single step of the way there is change, both conscious and unconscious. Translation cannot happen without some input from the translator; ditto editing. The idea that there is some ‘pure’ gospel out there that’s made it through unscathed is even more fantastic than the fairy tales in its pages.
And even if one was located, the idea that anyone today speaks/reads the language it’s written in using the identical meanings for every word – including idiomatic and colloquial variations – as the person who wrote it is literally impossible.
There is no such thing as ‘scripture totally free of church taught religions’. That you can even consider that a possibility shows just how irrational you are.
Leon spurted:
Have you read anything in this blog or, going even farther, read any biology site. You will find creationism attacked or, at the least, frowned upon.
You, sir, are truly a prince among men. Makes me wish that I was straight.
You have a hard enough time with facts. I will not trust your memories from over a half century ago.
Fires plagued the Cuyahoga River beginning in 1936 when a spark from a blow torch ignited floating debris and oils. The largest river fire in 1952 caused over $1 million in damage to boats and a riverfront office building. Fires erupted on the river several more times before June 22, 1969, when a river fire captured the attention of Time magazine, which described the Cuyahoga as the river that “oozes rather than flows” and in which a person “does not drown but decays. Wikipedia
I doubt it was clean when you were a child. And it probable is cleaner now (I will not say clean) as a result of The Clean Water Act. And that was enacted because of the 1969 Cuyahoga River Fire.
And Leon, do not tell me things were cleaner in the past. I will throw Bubbly Creek in your face. The Stockyards in Chicago has been closed for three and a half decades and you can still see it bubbling.
Leon, I’m having a little trouble with your position. This thread is about science, and what scientists are doing. The current scientific concensus – the overwhelming concensus, is that all evidence points to evolution; something you admit you lack knowledge on. Now you said when you want to learn something you’d go to an expert in that field. Almost without fail all scientists say that the evidence supports an old universe, old earth, and a gradual emergence and diversification through the process of evolution.
Yet at the same time you are mouthing off that people are calling creationism anti-science. This puts you with two options: either admit that creationism is suseptible to science, or admit that you have no case to be here. If creation is susceptible to science, then bring the evidence. No holy books, no preaching. Quite simply show how the evidence supports creationism. Otherwise, just what the fuck are you doing in a science thread preaching?
Patricia, I didn’t know you were a former Christian. What kind of Christian were you and what turned you from it?
Patricia, it seems that Randy wants to reserve some time on your couch with the fork. But it also seems that the troll does not pay a lot of attention, many of us were believers at some point in our lives.
Hi Janine,
I am not sure what you mean by “Randy wants to reserve some time on your couch with the fork”. Also I don’t consider myself to be “a believer”. I am probably more like you that you realize. However, one difference is that I wasn’t pressured into Christianity by my parents. I became a convert at 14. No one was shoving Christianity down my throat and I have no resentments or regrets about being a Christian for some 20 years. So you were a believer too?
Hi Janine,
I am not sure what you mean by “Randy wants to reserve some time on your couch with the fork”. Also I don’t consider myself to be “a believer”. I am probably more like you that you realize. However, one difference is that I wasn’t pressured into Christianity by my parents. I became a convert at 14. No one was shoving Christianity down my throat and I have no resentments or regrets about being a Christian for some 20 years. So you were a believer too?
Sorry about the triple post. My internet connection was doing something weird.
Randy, Patricia knows.
And I have no regrets about leaving my religious believes behind twenty five years ago.
Err… beliefs.
Actually, that was Me, tying knots in the tubes
lol, you all once believed in a magic sky daddy ;)
Janine,
What was it that turned you away from Christianity? I am not trying to turn you back. I just want to know.
Sturgis, fuck ya.
I wrote the following text a couple of weeks ago, but it got held up because of extensive link usage. I’m reposting it here (edited) because no one has addressed the point I was going to try and make during the intervening time. I have indicated the links, but disabled their linkiness. Just add the “http://” in front of the text line.
Leon wrote:
Leon, in science, no facts are incontrovertible. Period. That isn’t how science works. This word (incontrovertible) is used to refer to something that’s not open to question or dispute; something that’s indisputable; it refers to absolute truth. Science does not provide absolute truth. I will say it again: there are NO FACTS in science that are incontrovertible.
You’ll find people, even some on this blog, who will argue that point. They’re wrong. Science simply doesn’t work that way. Facts are observations with associated errors. The error bars can be so small that even discussing those errors is kind of silly, but even then, NONE of those facts represent absolute truth. And they are still, always, open to being reinterpreted (even if the likelihood of that happening is stupidly small). Science does not provide absolute truth, NOR DOES ANY RESPONSIBLE SCIENTIST CLAIM IT DOES. There is no mechanism in science to guarantee that you’re not making a mistake. Facts are NOT truth. Please stop spreading misinformation about what we do.
I apologize for the yelling, but I’m really tired of having to explain this again and again to people who blither on about science but seem to have managed to get through school without learning anything. It’s like (bad analogy alert—where’s truth machine?) if you and I were trying to discuss some aspect of Jesus’s message and I kept trying to weaken your argument by throwing it in your face that Genesis doesn’t mention Jesus. And I’m throwing the snark in here because you’ve been ridiculing geology in this thread for weeks now without apparently having the faintest idea of what you’re talking about. Call me elitist or make snide comments about my degrees all you want, but if I were going on and on making completely foolish and wrong comments about auto repair, I suspect you’d take issue with it.
Topped it off at 6 million? Where the heck do you get this stuff?
Really, scientists agreed fully in 1957 that the earth was 600 000 000 years old?
LINK: chronicle.uchicago.edu/031023/inghram-obit.shtml
LINK: sp.lyellcollection.org/cgi/content/abstract/190/1/205
LINK: http://www.jstor.org/pss/2406118
Josh…its good to get a verification from another source other than the geniuses we have on this thread…but…that example you wrote in the first part of your comment…I did not write it, in fact I’ve never heard of the word…”incontrovertable”…until now!
Now, about this 600 million question mark that seems to have evaded even historians. Ok, I was in my father plumbing shop helping him with copper pipes with the radio on the local station when this talk show came on about how scientists can predate things. I’ll admit I wasn’t paying 100 % attention to the show, but my day heard something and motioned for me to be quiet. Here again, not paying vivid attention to the subject, but when it came around to the approximate age of the earth I remember the person talking in the interview who was supposed to have been a reknown scientist at that time saying the earth was 600 million years old. I distinctively remember that figure. Have you ever caught wind of something in the past that you have heard or seen that has stuck with you through life. He also quoted that others (which I would assume would be scientists) gave the age either a lower or higher figure. And that’s where that came from. I would have chucked it all as a misunderstanding if it wasn’t for my father requiring attention to what was said.
There had been a few other similiar figures mentioned in the past, but the very last number I got was from a documentary program on TV in the late 60’s when the earth according to the ones on this program was calculated to be approximately 1.8 billion years old.
Then came the transitional years, the 70’s and beyond where evolution was gaining negative feedback from alot of controversial groups and scientists. And about that time, information from the past of dates about evolution just happened to disappear from the record books, almost as fast as family and moral values. Those also were the years in which the history books took a turn also, like Wild Bill Hickok was not the handsome gentlemen marshall the women admired, rather he was a homely drunkard womanizer who more than once shot the wrong guy. General George Armstrong Custer was not a hero, rather he was completely physcotic and suicidal. There was alot of adjusting done during those years including evolution.
It actually makes no difference to me what people want to believe, if they wish to say there was such an occurence a evolution, so be it and vice versa.
But I get annoyed with these brain trolls who completely deny the creationism issue without research also, just because it is their personal beliefs.
Sure the Bible doesn’t contain detailed scientific data, its not that kinda book, it does however contains truths that have been proven by archeologists and other researchers and prophecies that have occured and proven by historians who study chronological history.
Janine…yeah, I will tell you things were cleaner in the past, it depends on how far you wish to go back. Even in the beginning of the 20th century, they’ve had man made disasters and natural disasters that have caused pollution, I’m not disputing that at all. The beginning of the industrial age and beyond has contributed much to the polluting of the air and water. There were rivers and streams in isolated lodges up in Northern Ontario, BC and Yukon where you could drink water right from the source, just as I did on that summer day in 1952 at Port Burwell Ont. Now you can’t even stick your hand in some of them, so don’t even think about telling me about the dirty past.
Leon, scientific knowledge changes as more information comes to light. Even IF scientists used to think the world was 600,000,000 years old or 1.8 billion, it doesn’t change that now with more information that we have gotten a better age. Notice though that it keeps getting older – 6000 years is now off by a factor of almost a million. It’s like saying that to walk between New York and San Francisco you only need to cross the room.
Scientific knowledge is tentative and changes as more evidence comes to light. Notice though that none of this evidence has ever demonstrated the world to be 6000 years old.
Leon,
You have an amazing ability to continue to think you understand something while in showing in no uncertain terms that you have no clue.
That is how science works buddy. It is open to adjustment as new techniques, discoveries and data comes to light. And one thing is for certain, the more of those that come to light the further we move away from the idea of a young earth.
On the other hand, creationists never alter their understanding as new evidence comes to light. No matter how strong the evidence may be, it is guaranteed for creationists to either ignore it, obfuscate it, or distort it to bring it in line with their predetermined outcome that the bible is literally true.
Leon, scientists have looked at creationism, which is a religious idea. It doesn’t fit the requirements to be a science, and it contains no facts to back it up. So scientists rejected that religious idea in favor of evolution, which had facts to back it up like science requires. Creationism is still ignored because no new facts have come to light to make creationism a science. What part of this are you having trouble with?
Creationism is a religious idea. It can never be a scientific idea. Religion cannot refute science, nor can science refute religion. But, religion looks awful silly when its ideas are at such odds with science. The religious need to understand their bible is not inerrant, but is a collection of fables, stories, and some history. So, start talking to your fellow church goers about the need to update their interpretation of the bible.
I’m still waiting for you to provide physical evidence for your imaginary god, and physical evidence that the bible is inerrant. Opinions don’t matter. Physical evidence does.
Sigh.
Leon, you do realise that we’re not basing the age of the earth on reports from people who were there when it was created, don’t you? That’s the difference between history and science.
You really seem to be missing the point that we’re not making choices here – at least not in the sense where we’ve got two theories with equal validity. One theory has all the scientific support, from numerous fields of study including physics, chemistry, biology, geology, paleontology and astronomy (amongst others) while the other has bronze age folk-tales, sophistry and wishful
thinkingintellectual dishonesty.That makes all the difference.
holy crap! I’m gone for 10 days and this thread is STILL going?
*sigh*
…*looks to see where I left off*…
ah, I see Leon never even bothered to answer why millions was more probable than billions.
just pulled it out of his ass, like everything else.
here’s Leon, searching for his next nugget of wisdom…
, information from the past of dates about evolution just happened to disappear from the record books, almost as fast as family and moral values.
I’ve always been curious as to how the definition of “family and moral values” changes from one christotard to another.
Why don’t you define what these values are, and how they are entirely missing in “today’s culture” for us, Leon.
After all, at least THAT should be something you know something about, right?
go ahead, I’ll wait.
Wowbagger…you call me irrational, take a look in the mirror, your reply comment #658 is completely false. In your case, its a down right lie!
The Bible was written down by historical figures that had no affiliation or associated with any church demonination whatsever, in fact the Bible was concluded by the last memember of Christ’s ministry, the apostle John who penned the chapter of Revelation.
What church did Christ and his apostles attend? I’ll give you a clue Einstein…”NONE!” Christ’s teachings were totally contrary to the teachings of the scribs, Pharisee’s and the Sanhedrin. Not one word of the original scriptures was penned by any church. The churches adapted the holy writtings early during the time of Constantine in the 3rd century and they corrupted the word of God with their own man-made doctrines and remain corrupted all through history until 1879 when a group of International Bible Students from Pennsylvania began noticing the discrepancies that were being taught in the churches and started the Bible on its way to total restoration, with considerable revised editions from the years 1961, 1981 and 1984.
The world has a complete restored copy of the original texts from original dead sea scrolls as the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.
in fact the Bible was concluded by the last memember of Christ’s ministry, the apostle John who penned the chapter of Revelation.
so um, about all the books that were left out…
I’ve yet to hear of an athiest who hasn’t faced death kicking and screaming. Why wouldn’t they.
Is lisa in the common practice of slaughtering atheists to see if they kick and scream?
Can I slaughter some christotards to see if they go with big shit-eating grins on their faces?
no?
damn.
Leon, still talking like your fictional bible means anything. When are you going to get a clue? Your testimony (opinion) is worthless. Show us the physical evidence, not your words. You have to take your argument to a higher plane, and that requires taking yourself out of it. Show us the evidence by citing the literature (not the bible, but archeology literature).
“…remain corrupted all through history until 1879 when a group of International Bible Students from Pennsylvania began noticing the discrepancies that were being taught in the churches and started the Bible on its way to total restoration, with considerable revised editions from the years 1961, 1981 and 1984.”
so, if the bible was corrupted up until 1984 (Orwellian?), then that means there were no true xians (TM) until after 1984, right?
funny, I thought the Mormons had fixed the corrupted bible, and added the “correct” additional texts and revisions.
no?
Leon, a brief question:
If God told you that He used evolution as His method for creating human beings, and that the Genesis part of the Bible wasn’t meant to be taken literally, the earth was about 4.5 billion years old and evolution happened — would you have to call God a liar, because you just can’t see how that’s possible?
If not, then it’s possible that both the Bible and evolution work fine together after all. So you need to relax, stop worrying about science conflicting with religion, and just look at where the vast majority of experts in the field have been going for over 100 years.
Leon, demonstrating his ignorance yet again, wrote:
Which, unless you can read the languages they are written in, are going to be translated, edited, approved, proofed and printed by people who belong to churches and have their own agenda, you fucking clueless douchebag.
And, as I mentioned upthread, even if you could read them in their original languages*, it is a fact that meanings of words and phrases may vary over short periods of time, let alone two thousand years; almost anything in them would therefore be unreliable for any purpose beyond that of a quaint folk mythology.
*Considering you much you struggle with English, apparently your first (and only) language, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that you can’t.
While many fundamentalists believe that Revelation was written by the Apostle John, modern Biblical scholars don’t agree.
Ahh Leon, I see you are still avoiding answering why when it comes to science you didn’t go to a scientific source. And since this debate is all about science, why you think that scientists aren’t the relevant people to talk to. Either demonstrate why creationism is scientific or go away.
Ichthyic…that photograph you have there is probably a self-portrait as I never wear a belt, or a tie and I haven’t owned or worn black shoes in twenty years. So you put in your useless two cents in, now you can go away for another 10 days.
Kel…are you constantly having brain farts from such a simple observation. I never said the earth was only 6000 years old….”there, have you got it so far”…I said the “HISTORY” of recorded mankind only goes back 6000 years.
I never wear a belt, or a tie and I haven’t owned or worn black shoes in twenty years.
ROLMAO
so, so clueless.
It goes back tens of thousands of years, not that you’d listen to anything that contradicts your precious bible. Your stories are wrong, as all lines of science demonstrate. If you feel the science is wrong, you’re welcome to show it. But please spare me the wordplay that you are not trying to infer that a 2600 year-old desert myth is an accurate account of human history.
Again, Leon. This is all about science. Creationism is not science unless you demonstrate otherwise. If it’s not, then why the fuck are you in a thread about science complaining about creationism?
Leon, either start citing the scientific literature or shut up. Your words mean nothing, and you have been repeatedly shown to be wrong. Science requires honesty and integrity, which you appear to be lacking in. Until you can admit to you possibly being wrong, there cannot be a rational discussion.
If it’s not, then why the fuck are you in a thread about science complaining about creationism?
because it feels it’s “winning”.
soon we’ll all be converted to xianity, simply because of Leon’s
inanitypersistence.Epic FAIL.
I already posted, in #468, this:
5,700-7,500 + 2009 (the current year) = 7,709-9,509 years. 7,709-9,509 > 6,000. Or are you as incompetent at mathematics as you are at science, history and – hilariously enough – scriptural knowledge?
Leon, we have observed galaxies over 13 billion light years away, and aged stars to over 13 billion years ago. Hell, even though simple mathematics we can demonstrate that a dwarf galaxy orbiting our own is 168,000 light years away. We can age the earth with a variety of dating tools – all of which while working on different scales come to the same answer, which is entirely consistent with relative dating. We can also see a gradual emergence of life on this earth and all scientific evidence across a variety of disciplines point to common ancestry of all life. In short, the universe is old, the earth is old, and humans are a product of evolution.
So how can we say this confidently? Because all evidence points towards it. It’s not that science is authoritative or telling us to believe for a reward in the afterlife, it’s that the cumulation of centuries of observation and inquiry have pointed at these conclusions. If you think it’s useless, I advise you to turn off the electricity to your house and smash every single electronic device. Don’t go to the doctors for medicine, don’t use your car or any other form of technology-driven transport. Lest you be a hypocrite!
Leon, I copied the text that relates to the word incontrovertible directly from your comment #458 in this thread. Are you telling me now that you didn’t write it?
I think it’s more likely that your memory is in error, Leon. The links I copied for you were from geologists. You know, the people (like me) who do this stuff for a living. There simply was no consensus that the earth dated to 600Ma in the 1950s. Heck, that wasn’t even the prevailing understanding. You have it wrong. Do you want more sources?
…I waited…
I never wear a belt, or a tie and I haven’t owned or worn black shoes in twenty years.
but you don’t deny having your head wedged firmly up your ass.
got it.
Leon, either you heard/remember incorrectly, or whoever you were listening to didn’t know what they were talking about:
Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth
Old fart who doesn’t know much about science remembers dates wrong. Headline news folks…
Ichthyic………you waited…………good for you. Being patient shows signs of maturity, but then soon as you opened up your foul mouth it removed all doubt.
There were no books left out regardless what bogus info you may have. #685 No, it does not…wrong! So you thought it was the Mormons who fixed the Bible…as usual, you thought wrong.
Sastra # 686, your line of questioning has no probable cause as it only relates a speculated theory of which contains no facts. If Jehovah God thought it was reasonable to extract the exact age of the earth he would have mentioned it.
Wowbagger…Wow, its just amazing how confused you are. The translation mentioned above was restored by people who do not use a church as their place of worship.
Do you think its an impossible task to translate a copy of the scriptures from a different language especially if it was under inspiration from God himself? God would not tolerate corruption of his work by puney mankind anymore than he will tolerate this system of things.
Tis Himself…Modern bible scholars are part of that corrupt denomination, so why should they agree with anything. The chapter of Revelation was written by John in symbolical signs from the resurrected Jesus Christ, so it would be different in comparison to other chapters because it was before the fact.
Lchthyic….ROLMAO, are you laughing in regards of being dumb enough to put such a hapless pic on here, or is it really a self-portrait. Your remdition of clueless is reflecting more and more in your own comments.
Kel…I have demontrated science in creationism, non of you can cope in simple terms and you certainly don’t know a helluva lot about the complex ones either.
Josh…I wrote that down from another reply comment. You have to excuse me, I’m not a computer whiz.
Well Josh, since you have answered me in a mature matter, when it comes to memory, maybe we should just put that figure on hold until something else does come up, but I do know what I heard that morning.
Well, got through another batch of brainless comments, except for the odd mature one, and I’m still intacted. Looks like a couple of you university geniuses are kinda loosing it a bit. Why don’t some of you show a little compassion such as Josh here, he would get through anything on his own merit, where the rest of you haven’t got the PR skills to get yourselves outta bed, lol!
Leon, it looks like you have lost it. Your comments are totally brainless, but then, what can one expect from an ignorant godbot like yourself. Your god doesn’t exist and your bible is a work of fiction. Being a work of fiction, you can’t use it for evidence. So you have nothing buy your opinion, which doesn’t appear to have much relationship to reality. Another good laugh at your expense.
You’re “intacted”? Maybe you meant “impacted”? In which case it’s you who ought to “loose” it a bit. Louis Armstrong always recommended a product called “Swiss Kriss.”
Why am I not shocked that Leon thinks there is a conspiracy?
Leon, “not a wiz” is something that permeates your life.
Did you ever visit the links I gave you a while back?
700+ comments and all we have to show for it is another dumb-ass fuckwit of a religiobot who thinks the babble is the sum of Human history, and that science is a huge conspiracy.
Can we close the thread, please. Some of us have homes to go to!
Yes, because a Church only affects the way people think when they’re inside a building – how fucking stupid are you? Obviously, you’ve got no idea about the process of translation or the nature of editing. Why am I not surprised; so far there is no area in which you display competence, let alone proficiency.
Here’s a better question for you, you half-assed dipshit – why does your god need anything translated? Why didn’t your god just create humans with the ability to understand his words whenever they saw them? That would have been so much more practical, and would have completely avoided the possibility of anyone misinterpreting anything.
Are you high? In your own post you cited where mistranslations had occurred. How is this not ‘corruption of his work’?
It’s about time you stopped sniffing glue, Leon. It’s doing you no good at all.
Leon Flamick #702 wrote:
You misunderstood what I was asking. I was asking whether you could see a way to reconcile evolution with the Bible, if you felt you had to in order to keep your faith.
Could you? Or, if it turns out that the scientists are all right, and evolution happened, would you feel that honesty obliges you to renounce Christianity, and possibly even God?
I’m asking a question about you, and the way you think — not about the Bible.
tony #706 wrote:
No. Next time, don’t sign up for Clean-Up Committee. And don’t forget to fold and stack the chairs.
No you haven’t. I’m still waiting to see how light that was distanced at 13 billion light years away could have originated 6000 years ago. I’m waiting to see how several dating techniques that work on different scales yet all collaborate to the same date are off by a factor of 700,000. I’m waiting to see how all the evidence for common descent – similar genetic code, multiple genetic markers, inactive genes, junk DNA, vestigial organs and genes; similar anotomy and behaviour; same geographic distribution; a progressive fossil record, where many homonoid skulls have been found that show clear ancestral paths – how all these are wrong. All you’ve done is complained how science is speculation and guesswork, that’s not demonstrating anything except a profound ignorance of the scientific process!
At no point have you demonstrated the science in creationism.
You have on the other hand denied the science in, well, science.
Did you visit the links I gave you Leon?
Sastra: aww maaan! Do I gotta? How do these things fold anyway?
There were no books left out regardless what bogus info you may have.
teh denial is strong with this one…
http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/Bible/outside.stm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/apo/index.htm
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/12-19-2003/0002079002&EDATE
Is Leon as bad as Alan, I wonder?
I also wonder just how many more data points of creationists exhibiting denial and projection I need before publishing. Is well over 2000 enough?
how many more data points of creationists exhibiting denial and projection I need before publishing
There are probably enough individuals over a long enough time-frame for a decent longitudinal study. It would be kinda boring, but might it show evolution in the arguments used by creotards over time? Correlated against environmental events (dover, et al) you could have a winner!
:D
Leon, you can’t bullshit us on science. I have been a scientist for 30+ years, and I can categorically state you have presented no science whatsoever. Just your uninformed opinion. Whereas the other posters here have tried to present science to you, which you ignore and ridicule because it doesn’t conform to your preconceived notions. That is why we laugh at you.
Leon is ignorant and stubborn. I think Alan, besides being ignorant and stubborn, has some other problems.
Nerd…you are a scientist of 30+ years, ah its no wonder you cannot cope with the creationist’s views, you’ve been brainwashed to believe you’re just as good as God himself. I imagine there are a few more on here who think along the same lines. Maybe I can’t BS you on science, I mean I’m not even trying to, but Jehovah God can, after all he created the entire universe, so I consider him the greatest of all scientists.
Sounds like you’re also an expert on human behaviour. Ignorant and stubborn and you’re not. The problem with you is someone comes on here with opposite views and doesn’t bow down to your swelling ego, it brings out the true character that you are. A scientist on paper you may be, a great one, you’ll never be, as greatness comes from PR skills and you have proven on here alone, with your 30 plus years, that you have none at all.
Rev…there is a conspiracy, but its much more comprehensive that anyone could ever imagine. We are living in a time where that conspiracy will be revealed, along with all other mysteries and deceivements this old system can conjoure.
Nerd thinks I’ve lost it. Funny how I mentioned the same and he follows along. Nerd, you have no way of known because of your swelled head, but you are being led along by that great scientist figure in your head telling you to…BS the people, BS the general public, tell the people the earth is 4.5 billion years old, tell them enough times, they’ll believe it. You probably don’t believe the half of it yourself, but when you’re brainwashed enough years, it flows along smoothly, then when opposition strikes, instant brain fart!
Wowbagger…as usual, you’re so busy trying to act intelligent in front of your peers, you have completely lost track of what I was saying to you. The people who translated the most accurate copy of the Bible from its original texts do not belong to any church organization on this planet.
“Why does (my) God need anything translated?” Interesting, you are the one that has claimed to have read the Bible cover to cover and you don’t know! You sir are a liar yourself. The answer to that is about as simple as you can get concerning Biblical matters. Ever heard of the Tower of Babel?
The last remark shows without a doubt that you don’t listen, you don’t observe the material at hand. The scriptures have been corrupted throughout the centuries by organized religion, that’s why Jehovah God inspired those international Bible students in 1879 to proceed with his work of restoring the original texts. You have absolutely no concept of the times we are living in do you? None of you do! If you weren’t so busy ridiculing the Bible for its great work and accurate prediction you would see the signs all around you that the great tribulation is almost upon us. Maybe you’re just too stubborn to realize it, but the tribulation is the exposure of all false intentions that have built up to this day. Its obvious that time hasn’t come yet, if it did, you, your evolution falsehoods, your universities, your entire system of things would be gone.
As Bill Paxton brought out in the movie Twister about his rival having corporate sponsors and high tech gadgetry, being in it for the money, not the science, he has no insight. Just like the lot of you, tons of knowledge, high tech goodies, endless information…no insight on reality.
You probably aren’t aware of it just yet, but you are the biggest losers on this planet….just wait & see, its coming.
Projection defined.
Leon, did you visit the links I gave you?
Leon, answer this.
Why would your god provide us all of the evidence we have for evoltuion only to be tricking us?
So the two options according to leon are:
1. the old testament scholars didn’t know what they were talking about.
or
2. Tens of millions of scientists worldwide are part of a centuries old conspiracy to fool people into thinking that God isn’t really there.
Conspiracy claims are always so absurd, it’s the last chance saloon for anyone without any grounding for their reasoning.
Leon, we’ve demonstrated the science to you again and again. Talked not only about the discoveries but shown the processes involved. We have not appealed to any scientist, only the evidence that is on hand. What have you done? Declared science speculative (ironic while using a computer) and quoted from the authority of the bible. Talk about projection!
Yes, bring on the threats, death-cultist! They are more fun to read than your attempts at argumentation.
Roger. Then I retract my reply to that text as being directed at you. It should be viewed as directed to whomever did write that text (which I could hunt for, but really just don’t feel like).
Leon wrote…tell the people the earth is 4.5 billion years old, tell them enough times, they’ll believe it.
Leon, could you remind me, because we’re up into the 700s in comments and I can’t seem to quickly find it, just how old you think the earth is? People go through all sorts of mental gymnastics trying to reconsile the age of the earth with Genesis. Where are you on this point? You obviously have issues with geochronology, but why exactly? Why do you dispute the 4.5 billion year figure? Do you think we’re lying when we insist that the principles of radiometric geochronology are rooted in the same physics that has given us nuclear weapons (and if the physics works in one area, why is it likely to be so blastardly wrong in another)?
AHHH HA!
An old earth leads to Nuclear War.
I KNEW IT!
Leon, the only one brainwashed here is you. I have a very clear mind, uncluttered by the cognative dissonce that is required to believe in imaginary deities like you do.
You have presented no physical evidence to back up your creationist claims. You can’t have science without physical evidence. Quoting the fictional book called bible is not physical evidence. So either show physical evidence for your god and physical evidence that the bible is the word of god, or shut the fuck up. The burden of proof is on you to show yourself to be right, and you have failed everytime you have tried.
I’ve more or less given up on Leon, but this assertion is too good to pass up:
“greatness comes from PR skills”
Nerd, you’d be a much better scientist if only you’d hone your PR skills. Doesn’t that make complete sense, like the rest of his ramblings? Don’t try to learn anything new; simply focus on your public relations capabilities.
Leon prognosticated:
Dun dun dunnnnnh!
Okay and then:
Yes, Leon just like in Twister. Any helpful advice on the nature of reality from Ghostbusters or Goonies?
Wait…I thought you said crossing the streams was bad.
Also, when someone asks you if you’re a god, you say “YES”!
Appeal to authority FAIL.
Alternate quip:
“Left foot on green!”
Yes, yes. We’ve heard this all before.
That’s my second favorite quote from GB. My favorite is bound to offend someone here, so I’m going to refrain.
Although,
“Get her! That was your plan?”
also fucking priceless.
“It is true, this man has no dick.”
or
“You are a poor scientist Dr. Venkman.”
Leon is hoot in saying I need PR skills. PR skills are for managers, not us peons slaving away in the lab by choice. What is important for us is to obtain the data to back up our claims. If I say something degrades at a certain pH, I can show the HPLC chromatograms showing that degradation. Hard physical data that Leon is sorely lacking. Leon, if you don’t like getting laughed at, quit posting here.
Nerd, agreed. Most of the academics and scientists I know, myself included, have issues with interpersonal communication/relations. Some of these issues are fairly crippling. Heck, a good number of these people, including ones in managment positions, are perennial pompous assholes. But that’s not supposed to matter if I’m reviewing one of their mansucripts, though, now is it? I wish there were a better way for us to communicate how hard we try to remove all of the interpersonal drama and bullshit and be objective, even with people we can’t stand, when trying to dissect a scientific point.
It’s about the data, people. It’s about the data. We don’t care if you’re nice or not if you’re making a coherent argument.
Which is more correct?
Two plus two is indeed four good chap. How about a spot of tea?
or
TWO PLUS TWO IS FOUR YOU PINHEADED ASSHOLE. PLEASE GO FUCK YOURSELF WITH SOMETHING JAGGED.
humm
“Ok. So she’s a dog!”
Leon, the notion that scientists have been “brainwashed” into believing they are as good as gods is crap. The truth is, you’re the one who’s been brainwashed. All your statements drip of ignorance and indoctrination. Too bad that it’s too late for you to change or to learn anything. Have a nice retirement on the shores for Lake Erie. Have a glass for me.
RevBDC:
Both are correct, but option two sounds like more fun. Honestly,I didn’t know you were into Humiliation and B & D.
And where would religion be without good PR?
For instance, Joel Osteen has no evidence for anything, but he sells a buttload of books (and cassettes, and DVDs, and T-shirts, etc)
The scriptures have been corrupted throughout the centuries by organized religion, that’s why Jehovah God inspired those international Bible students in 1879 to proceed with his work of restoring the original texts. – Loony (“Leon”) Flamick
Ah, Leon’s a Jehovah’s Nuisance! All his blithering is made plain! (Sorry if this is old news, I haven’t been following the thread.) Hey, Leon, we haven’t had your particular flavour of lunacy on this blog recently. How many failed end-of-the-world predictions has your loopy sect notched up to date? I know of 1914, 1925 and 1975, but I might have missed some. When’s the End of the World (postponed due to unforeseen circumstances) due now?
Exactly E.V., facts are facts no matter what the attitude of the person delivering them is.
And no, no Humiliation or B&D. Not yet at least.
ugh. If there is an anti-christ he for sure must be it.
Laughing my ass off at #736
Leon is an absurd godbot. Reality is not his friend. He lives in a world of mythology and dreams.
Right, Steve_C.
Thus spake Leon:
This says it all, doesn’t it, ladies and gentlemen, sluts and rakes, harlots and minions, sinners and scamps? Knowledge plus technology plus information equals nothing. That’s where Leon is coming from. He has other ways of knowing.
Wowbagger, The Bible’s Buried Secrets addressed that question, and found a story of a man in the Tigris-Euphrates valley who did throw his family and livestock on a barge during a flood, but he, of course, was washed downriver into the Persian Gulf, and later landed on the south shore somewhere (Bahrain?) Definitely not a world-wide flood with the ark coming to rest on a mountaintop. So the biblical story fails..
Sebasta…I don’t know where you found your story from, but it sure isn’t any where near the Bible account. The Bible accounts says the earth was covered completely with water, it does not give account of limited coverage, those are all man made myths to discredit the authenticity of the Bible.
Biologists and other science groups have found marine fossils and plant variations that can only be found in the world’s oceans high up in mountains that cover Asian and parts of the middle east.
What’s your remdition of a realist Steve…you. Have you not looked up the 24th chapter of Matthew and read for yourself how accurate those prophecies are, how much the account of Noah is in comparison to this day? These prophecies are what is leading up to the final climax mentioned in Revelation.
Watchman…1952 was along time ago and today we’ve already gone through most prophecies, the Bible has given accurate accounts on the attitudes people would poccess today, it has shown how critical times hard to deal with would be here. It also mentioned men would be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, head strong, puffed up (with pride). Pretty difficult to pronounce the Bible incorrect when that actually describes most of you without question.
Here’s another remdition that describes most of you commenters on here. 2 Timothy 4: 3…….”For there will be a period of time (your generation) when they will not put up with the healthful teachings (creationism), but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers (evolutionists, false religion) for themselves to have their ears tickled; (only listen to what they want to hear) and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories.”
The point that makes this unigue in the way you people conduct yourselves on here, is that you are actually living prophecy and you don’t even know it, lol! While I can dish out other scriptures that highlight this generation of Einsteins and accurately predict their attitudes, just think what I can acheive when I really get started on you.
The best is yet to come.
Nerd…You say we can’t have science without physical evidence, how does 4.5 billion years chalk evidence? Its only a ball park figure. Where is your physical evdence that humans evolved according to your evolution theory without creationism? If you claim that humans can start basically from nothing and form into a healthy human speciment by chance and wandering chemicals, why haven’t scientists built a living breathing human being? You can build other experiments in a controlled lab that supposively works out to proof, yet you never really state any facts to why things work…only as one genuises mentioned…”it just does!”
Its really amazing how 9 planets can mysteriously just appear by chance and orbit around the sun in their percise paths and not totter out of line, not once and this comes from a possible big bang theory. And you say I’m ignorant, I’m living in a fantasyworld, because I present facts from an unpopular book that can kick the living hell out of your evolution theory.
Nerd…I don’t see anyone laughing, if they are, its obvious they have no clue what they’re laughing at.
@Leon Flamick
Even a broken clock is correctly at least twice a day.
That will be the extent of my two cents in this discussion -I’m off to practice my preffered debate tactic, that is with a heavy bag, a mouthguard and a pair of 16-ounce gloves.
Shorter Leon-“THE END IS NEIGH!”
We know what we are laughing at.
Ugh, spellchecked:
“Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.”
Janine, Ignorant Slut
How dare you associate Leon with Rorschach. That’s an insult to all paranoid sociopaths everywhere!
Fall back! The troll’s in self-destruct mode!
Sorry Twin-Skies, I was trying to paint Leon as a disheveled man in soiled clothes trying to get his urgent yet incoherent message to a justifiably unconcerned crowd.
All those damn geologists who can’t find evidence of a global flood… only out to destroy the authenticity of the bible. Never mind that the middle east WAS the world to them at the time, they had no knowledge beyond that small section of the world and there’s both historical and geological evidence to point to a massive local flood in modern-day Iraq (where Abraham was alleged to have come from), it’s all a conspiracy and those damn marsupials prove it!
Captain Koala, this is Koala Prime. The jig is up. I repeat, the jig is up. Execute Operation Thylacine. I repeat, Operation Thylacine is go.
Wait, didn’t you say that they were using the Dead Sea Scrolls? Those weren’t discovered until 1947, and it was quite a few years before they could be deciphered.
Say, Leon: Do you pronounce the “J” in Jehovah as the same sound as in “Jerry” and “Geronimo” and “Jerk”? Just wondering.
Leon, if you’re saying “ball park” as in attaching error bars to the 4.5 billion year figure, then yes. None of us are disputing that. If, however, you’re using “ball park” as code to say that you think we’re just guessing, then you’re seriously misinformed. Again, as I’ve said before, in this thread (#423, for example), you might not like what geochronology has to say about the age of the earth, but just simply dismissing an entire subfield of geology out of hand is rather foolish.
You might have, from your childhood, a memory that we all thought the earth dated to 600Ma in the 1950s, but it has been demonstrated by me and others in this thread that it’s far more likely that your memory of that event is off. There simply was no general opinion in the 1950s that we thought the world was 600 million years old. For you to rely in part on this memory as evidence that there is some great conspiracy against the world regarding geochronology isn’t healthy thinking.
Mock geochronology if you like, but if so, please don’t be a hypocrite and stop using the things that the science helps to provide you with (e.g., metal).
Leon, there are two options.
1., there was no global flood.
2., whatever deity caused the global flood subsequently erased all evidence of it and then created a rock record that screams “there was no global flood!”
It’s not just that there is NOT A SINGLE SHRED of evidence for a worldwide flood, it’s even worse than that. There is no evidence for a flood, and all of the evidence that we do have screams loudly that there was NO FLOOD.
There are geologists out there who assert that there is evidence for the flood. They are lying. Worse, they know that they’re lying. Any geologist who accepts the notion of a worldwide flood managed to get through school without learning a fucking thing. Period.
The flood is impossible. It violates physics, chemistry, and geology, at least. If you want to miracle it into existence, that’s fine. If you want to miracle away the evidence for it, fine. But anyone who tries to use evidence from the rock record to justify this myth has no clue what they are talking about or is lying. Period.
This is not a gray area within geology any more than the shape of the planet is. Period. We falsified this fucking hypothesis a hundred years before you were born.
Think we’re wrong, fine. But if so, then stop using petroleum, groundwater, plastic, and anything made from an ore, because to say that we’re doing a good enough job to use the results of our labor on one hand but at the same time mocking the methods we use to give you those results is hypocrisy.
Leon, you still believe your bible isn’t a work of fiction? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA You are funny man.
Leon, you still think you can just testify to get us to believe you? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA You are a stupid man.
Leon, do you understand the amount of third party evidence you must produce for us to believe you? You obviously don’t, because you never show any. We see you as a liar and bullshitter, and need conformation from sources other than you and your fictional book for things like the flood. There is no other evidence.
We are laughing at you Leon.
Yes Leon. Of course. We’ve heard end of world predictions from you types since 30 CE.
What makes you think you are any different?
Hey Rev…you sure are a misinformed scientist, I’m one hell of alot different than the link you gave me.
The second coming of Christ:…sorry people, it ain’t gonna happen. Christ died on a stake (not a cross) for one time only to give his perfect life as a ransom sacrifice for all mankind, even dimwit scientists. It would invalidate that sacrifice if he was to return as a man. Besides the word (coming) used in connection with his return is not correct. The proper word in this text is “presence.” And that comes from the original writings of the Greek Septugint.
The war of Armageddon:…the battle is not exclusive to the nation of Israel, it is global, the entire planet will be involved, including dimwit scientists.
The arrival of the Antichrist:…This is one of the most misinterpeted issues in the Bible. The Antichrist is in the form of all opposition to Jehovah’s visible organization on this earth. It does not indicate singular anywhere in scripture. The antichrist could even be dimwit scientists.
The Tribulation:…another misinterpeted scripture. For the benefit of you who never bothered to look it up, here it is: Matthew 24: 21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occured since the world’s beginning until now, no, no will occur again.
There is no 7 year time limit on this coming tribulation. We do not know the length of time it’ll last. As the scripture brings out it will be events that the world has never seen since the beginning. There is an indication that it will never occur again so the events that unfold will be more catastrophic than any other time in history, including the deludge. After all, its the end of mankind as we know it, including dimwit scientists.
The rature:…This prediction is almost as phoney as you people are. The rature’s not even mentioned in the Bible. An event of this magnatude, you’d think would be such an important event it would be described in great detail. It is supposed to carry the majority of believers up toward the heavens in order for God to destroy the wicked dimwit scientists and all the other unbelivers. Trust me, it ain’t gonna happen.
Some horrendous natural disaster:…even though one cannot rule out natural disasters, but there is an event that may take place very soon and its aftermath is where the following verse 22 in Matthew 24 comes from. Here again, I’ll put it here to benefit ones who may not have a copy of the holy scriptures on your person, Matthew 24: 22 in fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.
Here’s one for you scientists out there. What possible thing could any one country poccess that could possibly destroy all flesh on this earth? All of you should be on the positive bandwagon for this one, after all, wasn’t an example given by one of you concerning nuclear weapons? Have you been paying attention to what’s going on in the world lately especially with aggressive nations in possession of such weapons.
Cutting short is God’s term for eliminating the problems. Man will no doubt very soon loose most of his control faculties and will cause an event that will provoke Jehovah God to intervene in mankinds affairs and trigger the battle of Armageddon.
Rev, your article link, even though intertaining, is off the truth by 4.5 billion years, lol! Certain as much, if you can come up with material such as this, then surely, if you looked hard enough, could conjure up articles that can blow holes in your evolution theory, because they are out there.
Josh…I really thought you could do better than that, I mean, no flood, no flood, no flood, consistantly doesn’t cut it. You say the flood is impossible because it violates physics, chemistry and geology. Of course it does bud, the world is being destroyed, then restored new again, just like the rapidly approaching tribulation, the same thing will happen. Just as in the days of Noah there have been ample warnings of this coming tribulation, the people during Noah’s day probably laughed at him just as you people do today. I assume they stopped laughing when the rains came and didn’t let up.
Likewise when you see the global economies collaping all around you, then religion falling among the masses and finally when unrest develops from an agitated mankind, know this…that the deliverence of the chosen ones mentioned in verse 22 is near.
Leon, lots of words, but no third party information. Your opinion is worthless, since we have shown you to be wrong. Show us the evidence that you are right. Your god doesn’t exist and your bible is a work of fiction. Your have shown no third party data to refute that claim. Still laughing at you Leon. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Nope. You’re pretty much the same. Not surprising you can’t see that though. You are attributing disasters that may occur to some wishy washy prediction you are interpreting one way. And to make the connection even more so, you are claiming it is coming soon.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc Leon.
You didn’t visit the links did you? Obviously not. Because your little statement there doesn’t reflect their content or why I pointed them to you.
Here. pubmed search: Evolution
and here PLoS
Now, read all those scientific articles and refute them.
Thanks.
When, Leon? When? Make a falsifiable claim, for the love of Rama.
This claim of “soon” has been made countless times over the past two millennia, and the predictions have yet to come to pass. Furthermore, the claim that “this generation” exhibits all the negative behaviors and attitudes prophesied by the Bible has been made for every generation since the first Christians started getting together for Sunday afternoon hot-dish pot luck.
Ante up, dude, or cash out and go home.
Leon, hi. You sort of missed my point, I think. As I said, if you want to explain the flood using miracles, that’s fine. At that point I stop caring. If the deity responsible for destroying the world has to, for some reason, go through the effort of hiding its activities from all future observers, well, then I’m really not that interested. That’s little different to me than there not having been any flood at all. If there is no evidence for the flood, then why do I care?
You might counter with “because if it happened, then it’s the truth.” Fair enough, but again, if all I have is an internally inconsistent book that asserts the flood happened, why should I trust it? You have said essentially “but there is other stuff in the Bible, predictions that have come true.” Well, every prediction I know of in the Bible that people insist has come true, has been argued against, pretty convincingly. It still always seems to boil down to faith, and if so, then why should I choose this particular celestial voice (hat tip to Rush) as opposed to, say, Ra?
I’m sorry that you expected more from me. Without solid evidence, however, you’re going to have a hard time convincing me that the flood did happen. What evidence do you have? You said me asserting “no flood” wasn’t going to cut it. Fair enough. Do you want to get into a discussion about evidence for the flood? I’m in. Let’s go. We can try and get PZ to start a flood geology thread (although I’m sure he has in the past–I’ve only been hanging around a couple of years). It’ll be fun. You up for it?
Watchman…the claim of “soon” is a realistic approach concerning God’s time table. As you may know that man’s timetable and God’s are two different natures. The reason soon is applied today is because most prophecies and events mentioned in the scriptures have already occured, therefore the generation who actually witnessed the ending of the Appointed Times of the Nations era in 1914 are very old. They will also witness the destruction of this system of things.
Apparently you haven’t got much experience under your belt as far as real living is concerned. Those negative behaviours and attitudes mentioned in scriptures are exclusively for your generation. Even in my short duration of only 62 years on this planet, I have witnessed behaviour patterns and attitudes completely change from bad to worse and the adundance of unlawlessness has never been more critical in any time prior in man’s history.
Josh…you said that every prediction mentioned in the Bible has been argued against and just because its argued with mortal man, does that make it exclusively his decision on all things including evolution?
The prophecy “Nation against Nation, Kingdom against Kingdom…how can you argue that point. I suppose you believe the holocaust never occured! (My father, if he was alive today would definitely argue that point with you).
Do you not see food shortages worldwide, can you argue with that, I mean you can see it.
Earthquakes in one place after another. Even your science and scientists cannot argue the fact that there are indeed earthquakes happening where there was none before.
Pestilences, you cannot argue the point that diseases thought to be cured are making a comeback such as smallpox, tuberculosis and look at the Aids virus, still no cure and there never will be as long as human’s keep practising unclean sexual acts. Have you read the attitudes that people poccess today from 2 Timothy 3: 1-7. There are many more facts that are consistantly true throughout the scriptures that can be proven without explanation, but the evidence here that even you can see does not merit a label such as ficticious and deniable.
Nerd…you may think you have proven me wrong within your own mind, but not a chance pal, you’ve only proven that you are better educated than I am. Academic wise, you are superior, (do you like that label), but with no practicality skills, you will be useless in the coming depression.
Rev… you really are a real piece of work. I say I am completely indifference to what you are labelling me as of that article link. I have given you my scriptural issues concerning their ideology compared to mine and yet you still insist that I’m categorized as them. You are either a stubborn fool without the ability to agree with anything other than your own, or you really are a friggin stupid person with an education. I also noticed that the lack of real scientists on this board, they wouldn’t want to be mixed with a bunch of puffed up wizards who claim the knowledge of the universe belongs to them and them only.
And yeah, for your information, I did visit those links and of course my statements don’t reflect on their content, how could they, I don’t agree 100% with them.
Thank goodness there are devoted scientists out there who stillhave common sense and reasoning skills.
Leon just disappeared into my killfile 4evah, but before I get on with ignoring him, let’s all take a second ponder the term “unlawlessness.”
Okay, good. Something we can chew on.
First, where are you talking about? Give me a place where an earthquake has (I presume you mean recently?) happened where there haven’t been earthquakes previously known to occur?
Leon, still the liar and bullshitter. Your god doesn’t exist, and your bible is a work of fiction. You still haven’t proven anything otherwise. Leon, I am about your age, and I know my way around cars, houses, plumbing, wiring, woodworking, and the like. Unlike you, I also have undergone heavy academic training and a have a well paying job I enjoy. So, I’m not a useless as you think.
You need to lose your preceptions of the world. I lost mine 40 years ago. Without the need for imaginary deities reality is nice. And don’t be surprised if the end of the world doesn’t happen for a few more billion years. After all, the book of Revelations is fiction.
Yes, I do. I absolutely do. One comment and one question back to you regarding that point.
First, there have, as far as we can tell, never been even close to this many people alive at once on the planet… Mammals eat at fabulous rates. Famine seems pretty predictable.
Two, do you honestly think that famines are a new thing? Famine happens often enough that pretty much anyone predicting it at any time in recorded history is likely to be seen as having made a correct prediction.
I don’t see how famines occuring proves the Bible as being correct. Do you have data to suggest that, worldwide, they are happening now more often than they did, say, 150 years ago?
The rature:…This prediction is almost as phoney as you people are. The rature’s not even mentioned in the Bible.
How do you interpret Revelation 3:10-11 then?
You laid out what you’d like us to accept as differences, but when it all boils down to it, you are in the same vein as all those others who have been predicting the end of the world for thousands of years.
Leon: tl;dr; too. fucking. boring.
Rev…as usual you can never get anything straight. There have been groups predicting the end of the world for quite some time now, yes, I’m not denying that. Even scientists have been predicting the end of the world also, the dooms day clock is evidence of that. The point you have difficulty understanding is, as I have said in previous comments, that its not the world that will end. Jehovah God will never let mankind destroy his beautiful earth.
What I have said all along several times is the end of this system of things. The corrupt governments, the greedy commercial system, the false religions, I have not mentioned once about the end of the world.
There have been predictions about world calamity, but never has there been so much intensification as there has been in the last century and beyond, more-so now.
Do you remember just before the turn of the century when there were hundreds of predictions that 2000 was the end of the world. I was asked my opinion from many who know me and told them outright, it will not occur in this year. Matthew 24: 39 four key words in that verse backed my claim. See if you genuises can figure it out!
Josh…first of all, yes there have been food shortages throughout history, but never in history have there been deliberate food shortages. The World Health Organization (WHO) has stated that the earth is more than capable of producing enough food to feed its population, which of course you are correct the population has swollen quite considerably throughout time also. The biggest problem is distribution, or lack of it. Also there is the question of waste. The North American continent waste enough food during a year where it could feed half of Africa itself. The greedy commercial system also contributes to food not getting to the hungry.
Sven…Leon has disappeared into your killfile as one you couldn’t brainwash or control huh! Before you get your head puffed up, the word should be LAWLESSNESS, sorry for the typo error.
Nerd…congratulations on all of those God given skills that you have managed to perform with a brain and mind that was created by Jehovah God. If the mind and brain was allowed to evolve according to your theories you’d still be a mushroom on the ground even for a couple more billion years. Your evolution theory is impossible without creationism.
If you would have observed what I was writing in my last comment instead of being so eager to ridicule, you’d find the useless term was applied when the country collapses into a depression. Then, when the great tribulation begins and Jehovah starts his purposeful work, that’s when you will be totally useless as your fate would have already have been sealed. Still time to correct your ways.
After Armageddon the world will continue on and life will still exist, the only difference is the population of the earth will all be subjected to one common bond, the evil science and evil intentions of human’s will be gone. Yes, science will exist just as it always has, but with a perspective to truth instead of make believe lies.
No Leon.
You are saying the same thing. It isn’t about the “world” ending. It’s about the world ending for mankind.
You do the same thing they all did. They twist current events to match their view of the coming of the end.
you are exactly the same.
Your methods may be a bit different and the way it ends may be different, but you are still the same.
You are saying that this perceived growing acceleration to the apocalypse is a sign of your God’s prophecy.
It is exactly the same thing that has been said over and over.
And they all claim to be the true bell ringers of doom
Maybe you should don a sandwich board and head downtown to warn the masses?
Leon is a Jehova’s Witness! Happy Birthday to you! Happy Birthday to you…..
I see Leon is back with nothing of substance. If he is a JW, he has even less substance than a normal godbot. Leon, have no credibility. Your word and testament mean nothing without corroboration from a third party. And this has never been done. You are a laughable bore. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I’m laughing at your feeble mind Leon.
Your god doesn’t exist and your bible is a work of fiction Deal with it.
Leon ‘Loon’ Flamick wrote:
How do you know they’re false and yours isn’t? Remember, you can’t claim the bible as evidence; it’s not an objective source.
So, what makes yours the correct religion?
Leon
Are you a Jehovah’s Witness?
Reading Leon reminds me of the line in Young Frankenstein:
Leon, learn some fucking history. You claim
Read about what the Japanese did in Korea in the 1920s and 1930s. The Japanese government was confiscating food from Korean farmers and selling it not to gain revenue but to keep the Koreans docile through hunger. Then read about the Ukrainian famines of the 1920s, instigated by the Soviets to eliminate the kulaks (land-owning peasants). Deliberate food shortages are common.
Leon, you can’t expect anyone to believe in your fairy tale god if you can’t even keep your fairy tales straight.
Once again these clowns on here show just how stupid they can be without ever thinking or researching anything other than their own theories.
I’ll clear up one confusing matter that some of you seem to be inquiring…”no,” I am not a Jehovah’s Witness. I know of them, in fact I have several friends who belong to the congregations. If I was a JW I would not be allowed to express any opinion on this board that is contrary to their beliefs, but I do believe they are the one religion that is mentioned in the Bible.
No Rev…just goes to show you how twisted your own mind is when dealing with matters that have no interest to you. If there is anyone twisting events around to conform to your habitual ridiculing, it is you.
I have given you a complete contrast view of that article you so convienetly uploaded and yet you still harp away about me being identical to the others. Far from it pal. Are you also blind, let alone unapproachable to truth?
Nerd…same old garbled stupidity from one of the most narrow minded scientist on here.
Your god doesn’t exist and your bible is a work of fiction…deal with it! I have dealt with it for years bud and the more time passes by the closer that inevitable day comes. One thing about it though, you won’t be aware of that day until its upon you and that is where I’ll get the laugh deserving of you educated fools. You can laugh now clown, but mark this gaurantee on your wall, you won’t be laughing on that day!
Wowbagger…I did not say I had a religion did I? How do you tell the false religion from the true one? Have you any idea whatsoever what you’re asking? Do you expect to get results when you continue to be ignorant towards biblical knowledge? Do you really have knowledge about evolution or are they just memorized words of agreement you throw on here to keep par with the other narrow minded fools on here.
Do you want to know how a person can figure out which religions are false, start reading with an open mind instead of leaning on your own understanding. With your schooling background that should be a relatively easy task.
Tis Himself…another typo error, ok, so I’m not a computer guru, it should have read….. never until modern history did deliberate food shortages occur.
It wouldn’t matter if your so called fairl tale was truth even if it stuck you in the eye, truth is definitely not a popular message among you genuises. Yet the biggest fairy tale ever told is evolution and you embrace it in the same accord.
Ladies & gentlemen…the Einstein’s will speak!
Leon is back with more inanities. Intellectual content of post is zero. Your god doesn’t exist. Your bible is fiction. The end of the world will occur in a few billion years. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Leon, you are an ignorant repetitive bore. Try something new. Stop posting here.
Leon, I think that might be an incorrect perception of the facts.
So conveniently? What the hell does that even mean? I linked to it (not uploaded it) to show that people have been predicting the end of the world for a long long time. You have not contrasted your self against them at all. If anything you sound very similar to them.
I still fail to see the difference between you and them
Yes. I understand that. The similarity comes in when you assign cause of these things to some prophetic nonsense from your religion. The same things everyone in that link i provided above did.
You also fall into the same trap of thinking that these times are hurtling faster and “worser” towards the apocalypse (however you chose to define it) that all those others did.
Well goodie good for you. I told people it wasn’t going to happen either and I didn’t need to refer to a verse in a book that references a global flood that did not happen. I just knew that the Y2K bug wasn’t going to cause the chaos the tin-foil hat, food bunker, stocked up on ammo doomsayer types were screaming about. That doesn’t change the fact that now you are saying it is coming.
Oh and just so you don’t forget, Leon have you visited the Pubmed and PLos links yet? And if you have have you started to take each article and disproving it?
Now back to your denials
No Leon There are not. Its a combination of better communication, monitoring and your own confirmation bias.
Forgive us for not being able to keep separate the various sects of christianity that has bellowed about the end of the Earth. You see, it is hard for a sane person to keep an eye on all of the delusions. There are better and more worthwhile ways to spend one’s time.
Okay, that’s enough.
These “you geniuses” and “you educated fools” comments are really beginning to annoy me.
Leon, I have tried hard to be polite with you, not assume that you’re a troll, and engage you in actual conversation. For the most part, you’ve ignored substantive questions (e.g., you made a blanket statement regarding earthquake frequency; I asked you a question in response; so far you appear to have ignored it) and have chosen instead to continue with statements that suggest you’re not interested in actual dialog.
That’s fine. If you don’t want a real conversation, that’s your choice. It causes me to question your motivations for continued commentary, but whatever. I will continue to try and give you the benefit of the doubt.
I do take issue, however, with being labeled an “educated fool.” I couldn’t care less whether or not you respect my PhD. I don’t grope for your approval. However, the implication behind those labels, that just because we have a lot of degrees we’re obviously ivory tower eggheads with no understanding of “real life,” crosses the line. Like so much else, you’ve got no basis with which to make that statement. I’ve been all over the world, and I’ve seen a whole bunch of shit. Have you? I’ve crawled under automatic weapons fire. Have you? Ever stared death in the face, Leon?
You don’t know us anymore than we know you. We’re just names on a computer screen trying to have a conversation (well, at least some are). Blog commenting is pretty one-dimensional. Try to back off with the unsubstantiated blanket insults, okay?
It appears Leon won’t let this thread die. Maybe PZ could help that process.
Josh…did I not give you the recognition several comments back about your mannerism? Actually, insulting people who are narrowminded is generally not in my nature to do, but it seems no matter what I say on here, it isn’t any good for any of you. I apologize for putting you in the same category as those other educated fools, it was not intentional on my part. I imagine what the frustrations would be when people deny the theory of evolution so many times as they have about creationism. Personally, I really don’t give a damned at all about this thread, but you get idiots like Nerd and Rev denying creationism totally when its all around you, you can see it everywhere and you can vision it daily without calculating billions of years of speculation and that is what evolution is about. There are no cold hard facts that prove it actually occured the way they claim. Some vip scientist, probably an atheist, agreed with Darwin and threw all this exaggerated work together and the higher learning facilities just continued the brainwashing proccess. The bottom line is, if there is no creationism, there is no evolution either. This entire system is either dellusional or we are all living in an expisode of Total Recall.
Janine…keeping the various sects of Christianity seperate is a very simple task, but can be very complex when you know nothing about it. Hense, the reason why most of you comment in the negative manner as you do. All of you are ignorant concerning the scriptures and you will remain like that until such time as you actually learn something about it, but then that would go against the grain of what you have been taught wouldn’t it?
I cannot understand how you amazingly educated people are so blind to the signs that are pending of a coming tribulation. You are so above everyone and everything else that you cannot see beyond your own self glorifying ego’s.
Well, maybe not yet, but God’s word will eventually prove everyone of you wrong. You bring ostracism to his name, he will bring humiliation and ruin to you.
The 6000 year reign of mankind under Adamic sin is almost complete, God will usher in his New World Order and unfortunately none of you people will be a part of it, in fact, I’m not 100% sure I will be either.
Nerd…the intellectual content of your replies are zero
Leon, you moron – even if you are the only person who believes exactly what you believe about god that’s still a religion. Specifically, your religion. How do you think religions get started? If you managed to find some people and convinced them to accept your interpretation of the bible then you’d have yourself a congregation.
Get a big enough one of those and you’d have a denomination, or sect. Maybe you should be out there recruiting a flock rather than providing an easy target for us.
But, that aside, you still didn’t answer my question. Why is your interpretation of the bible correct and those of others not? How do you know that what you call ‘false’ religions are false?
More inanity:
WTF? Congratulation, Leon – you’ve managed to set a new benchmark on complete idiocy. That you could even reach the conclusion is a demonstration of just how removed from functioning mental capacity you are.
Which we might be concerned about – if it weren’t for the fact that woo-addled doomsayers like yourself hadn’t been screaming nonsense about the end of the world being nigh from a couple of hours after the point where the audience stopped politely applauding Jesus’ particularly uninspiring piece of performance art up there on the cross.
Nice try, Leon – but I’ve got an industrial-strength irony meter; it can cope.
I deny creationism because there is zero evidence supporting it. You can’t just claim that everything around us is evidence with showing how it is evidence. Assertions mean shit Leon if you can’t back them up and you’ve failed miserably at backing them up here.
We’ve given it to you Leon. The links I provided to Pubmed and PLoS have plenty of articles providing said evidence and cold hard facts. The problem is you choose to ignore them.
Hilarious. By that logic if there is not evolution there is no creationism either. Are you trying to refute yourself now?
Speaking of supporting an assertions, support this one.
You can’t because it’s full of shit.
Tell me about the increase in earthquakes again?
It’s blatantly obvious you’ve got some issues. Issues manifesting in conspiracy theories and end of world doomsday proclamations.
Seek help Leon.
Leon:
LOL!
As if you would know, you sanctimonious, condescending, silly little nematode.
Apparently, you haven’t got the sense God gave a stillborn weasel.
Leon, you assert things with no real evidence. Why should we believe you, when you have been refuted time and time again? Repeating your assertions does not mean anything other than you lack a good grasp of reality. If we didn’t believe you the third time, why the tenth? Your lies are still lies. Your god doesn’t exist. Your bible is a work of fiction. Humans will still be around and evolving in a few hundred thousand or, or even millions of years. Your brand of creation requires a god, but with no god you have nothing. You cannot grasp that concept, but we can.
Seek a killfile, folks. Helps the ol’ blood pressure.
Actually, yes you did. My apologies.
While my fellows here don’t need my defense, I would caution you against labeling them as fools. I’ve seen no evidence of this. What I do see is a lot of talking past one another.
If you’re meeting with resistence here, Leon, it’s in part because you do show a trend of not answering specific questions and also of asserting things without evidence. These are not traits that are received well in group such as this. Not everyone here is an atheist, but one trait that almost all of us share is a fairly science-focused worldview. Thus, when we’re asked specific questions, we tend to try and answer them specifically. If we think we have something to say, it’s because we can back it up. Some here are fuckheads about this, but in general, if people are shown to be demonstrably wrong on a point, they accept it, try to learn from it, and move on. It’s how discussions happen and it’s how people learn.
We keep hoping that one of you from the creationist side will come in here and actually talk about what you believe (for the most part, we know what you believe; we’d like to get more in depth) and answer direct questions. The frustrating thing is that it never happens. We end up playing the goalpost game and rehashing the same tired shit over and over again. People get frustrated.
Okay, I have no fucking idea why I jumped up on a soapbox about this, so I’m going to get off of it. I used we all through this, but I’m not going to put words in others mouths. I speak for myself.