Comments

  2. matt says

    Not the evil satanist cartoon He-Man and the Masters of the Universe! It’s poisoning our children! Now, Scrappy WAS an evil little tool of Satan… I like how the Scooby-Doo of thirteen years ago was so wholesome, with all it’s very thinly veiled references to getting stoned and having the munchies. Ah, Poe’s law really is one of the laws of humanity. I still think that other site is satire.

  3. Crustacean says

    I like how this fellow associates internal dialogue with the Lord. As though he is unable to think for himself, and as a consequence both is not responsible for his thoughts and actions, and is not questionable. Actually a bit frightening.

  4. Brian says

    PZ, I would like to thank you for killing off some of my brain cells with that video. I do have to agree with matt though, Scrappy is a tool of Satan.

  5. Monsignor Henry Clay says

    Most of us would just say, “That’s poppycock”. But if any of them tried to say, “Oh, that’s not real, but my fairly tale is,” someone might actually start to think about it. So they’re left with no recourse but to condemn.

  6. Hank Fox says

    I could barely stand to watch that guest guy’s lips as he spoke. There’s something really wounded about him, too, like maybe he really, really, REALLY needs this attention.

    I thought it was endearingly dopey that the host kept using the word “occultic.” I wonder if he made that up on his own, or if it’s common jargon in his movement.

    (Researching “occultic,” I came across “Occultic Influences in Hollywood & D.C.” at “The Truth Project,” which appears to be an online monument to paranoia.)

  7. says

    I personally think the best satire must be indistinguishable from the real thing.

    So, what are the effects of the occult cartoons on society? Do we have to thank them for the surge of atheism?

  8. Satan says

    Hail Satan… Let us drink of his blood….hmmm.. Oh forget it. Who really cares anymore. Let’s just be happy and live life as to our own accord! Yay! I love you my friend. I love you all.

  9. Beth Nott says

    When I was a little kid the 60’s there was a comic book called “Hot Stuff the Little Devil.” And yes, Hot Stuff was an actual devil, with horns, pitchfork and all. My mom, being a serious fundie, wouldn’t let me read it, but I managed to sneak a few copies behind her back. The way her mouth dropped open at the sight of it made me even more interested in it–something these two scared guys ought to think about.

  11. peter says

    scrappy is not the tool of the devil, it *is* the devil.

    but the hair, omigawrsh, that Hair! and those teeth! that guy on the left is not a real human.

    gotta say, I love the last frame of the video though, it’s a wonderful counterpoint…

  12. says

    I like how they picked clips from only one episode of Scooby Doo. If it’s so rampant, couldn’t they have found more examples?

    And the “occult” figures were the enemy in that show… should they praise Scooby for defeating evil?

  13. peter says

    btw, has anyone gone on to see parts 2-5? it gets better…

    actually, someone having mentioned Hot Stuff, I’m reminded of Casper. I have a question about Casper that I’ve asked a number of people. I get a lot of different and generally interesting answers…

    How did Casper die?

  16. peter says

    you really must see the other parts, part 2 and 3 are about He-Man, part three even gets into big bang theory and creationism. how dare He-Man call creationism into question!

    ooh-boy and reverb is evil.

    working on parts 4 and 5 now… this is really amazing stuff…

  17. says

    The only thing I can think is that, in this day and age, those two must be tied up in straitjackets and in padded cells after catching a South Park episode or two.

  18. Mr Doubt(hell)fire says

    The wackaloons at Calvinists 4 Conservatism are far ahead of you on this one, PZ.

    ‘The Care Bears are pure Socialistic evil.’ These morons are everywhere!

  20. Wowbagger says

    How did Casper die?

    Didn’t Bart and Lisa have this discussion and come to the conclusion that he was the ghost of Richie Rich, and that he’d killed himself?

  21. peter says

    the upshot is in part 5 where we learn that the hair guy, (phil) has a bad memory from age 2 when watching lassie. apparently had to have dad “call the producer” to be reassured that lassie was actually okay.

    I think we have a winner… I’m impressed though, I can’t really remember anything prior to age 5 or so…

    Hank, I like the CareBear answer, many people have suggested a fork in a toaster or a car accident… I suppose the corollary question would be “how old was Casper when he died?”

  22. Kendo says

    The hypnotized looking godbot said that children “receive this in a different way than we do”. Well duh! Children generally know that it’s make believe.

  23. Wowbagger says

    I do like the part where they explain that the cartoons are based on ‘actual occult practices’ – implying that the occult practices are real. Scary credulity, even by xian standards.

  24. peter says

    wowbagger, I never bought that answer as I used to have a fair number of comics where Richie Rich and Casper, (and for that matter Wendy the Witch) all appeared together, though if I recall correctly, not everyone could see Casper. More of a guardian angel-type character…

  25. tacitus says

    Hah — I took a quick look at Greenwald’s ministry store and you can buy a 2-CD set entitled “Enslaved by Sexual Addictions”

    Here’s the description:

    One of Satan’s cruelist bondages is his use of lust and sexual desire to entrap both Christians and unbelievers into sexual addiction. This message shows how science backs scripture showing how those viewing explicit pornography or hearing sensual lyrics release erototoxins (similar to endorphins and adrenaline) in the brain literally setting up addictions that only God can break!

    Erototoxins?? What a tool!

  26. says

    peter | November 24, 2008 1:43 AM

    How did Casper die?

    Normally, I’d say he was mauled by a beer truck, but in this case, I’m going with late-term abortion.

    There’s a certain cherubic quality to him, after all.

  27. Wowbagger says

    Peter, #24 – obviously, you thought about it a lot more than I did. But I don’t think they were serious; I imagine it’s more of an indictment on the creator picking a generic ‘look’ for the shape of the character’s head.

    Anyway, back to the awesome video – the hair guy just said ‘I was driving in my car…and god spoke to me about what happens when a child plays with a toy…’. The moustache guy stops him – but to ask him about the toy, not to question him about god speaking to him!

    You’d think if their god was going to bother to speak to people you’d think it might be about something a little more important than the problems caused by a kid’s fucking toy.

  30. peter says

    wowbagger, I spent some time in college delving into the subject and interviewing people about it. I thought it might make a neat documentary, but I got sidetracked into other projects…

    I still think it would be a neat film, sort of like Rorschach testing…

  31. Wowbagger says

    wowbagger, I spent some time in college delving into the subject and interviewing people about it.

    I hope you got a grant for it.

  32. says

    Casper “was a ghost simply because his parents were already ghosts when they were married” (wikipedia to the rescue).

    So, while you can still have children in the afterlife, it’s good to know that responsible ghosts only do it after getting married.

    More importantly – the comics don’t say. The movie version had him as a sick child.

  33. Shane says

    Erototoxins??!!?

    Why wasn’t I informed earlier?

    The idiotic thing is that these cartoons are portraying the occult and paganism in a very negative light. Using them as an obvious villain and portraying the witches in an unflattering way (“nyuk nyuk nyuk…”). Not that I give any stock to paganism, but this is effectively already pro-Christian propaganda. These guys are upset by it simply because it mentions a “spell book” and the “evil zone”.

    They are right about the necessity to clamp down on a child’s imagination to keep them in the chains of organized religion.

  34. peter says

    Robert @32
    not the most interesting of answers… too easy if you look it up… besides I tend to think wikipedia==retcon

    wowbagger @31
    not yet… someday.

  36. Lago says

    Dude, isn’t that video from one the guys that used to be on the PTL Club in the early 80s? This is reeeeeally old stuff you guys are dealing with here. I used to debate them over 25 years ago.

    What they were always so short to point out, is Scooby and the rest were always fighting the evil witches, and not endorsing them. Their main response to this was, that, “If you fight evil, but not in the name of the “Lord,” you are still promoting evil.”

    Most of these guys went on to disgrace themselves in scandals…

  37. Hank Fox says

    Casper was crushed by a stampede of Republicans running to get Sarah Palin’s autograph.

    Casper was a college student who expired after eating the cafeteria chili at Bob Jones University.

    Casper was a small child from Montana on vacation in Kansas with his parents when he was killed by a falling animatronic dinosaur at the Creation Museum.

  38. Benny the Icepick says

    Who needs scientific evidence when you can receive direct guidance from god during a 14-day fast?

    If you search *”Phil Phillips” Christian* on google, you can find some of the atrocious books he’s written. What a stooge.

  39. Brain Hertz says

    OMG PZ, where the fuck did you find this? I’m still marvelling at this line (@ 3:17):

    Oh yes, the witchcraft and occultic practices are not make-believe. They’re taken from actual witchcraft…

    Who are these people? And at 6:00:

    I can hardly believe what I’m seeing here…

    You do believe it, buddy. That’s where the problem starts.

    Not to mention the blizzard of fuckwittery beginning at 7:00.

  41. John C. Randolph says

    Scooby-doo was dreck. It’s really sad how bad cartoons got in the late 70s and the early 80s.

    This is how a cartoon should be:

    Max Fleischer, Walt Disney, Chuck Jones… Now, those were some real artists.

    I’d pretty much given up hope for cartoons until I saw My Neighbor Totoro.

    -jcr

  42. tacitus says

    All this talk of erototoxins reminds me that I need to go and do something… I’ll be back later.

  43. Lago says

    OK, just so people do not get confused as to what I meant:

    The above video is from an episode of a TV show that is over 20-25 years old.

    These nuts have been with us for a looooong time.

  44. Knight of L-sama says

    I really, [i]really[/i] want to sit these douche-bags down in a room and play them a select group of some of my preferred viewing. I would then cackle madly as I watched their brains shatter.

    Slayers!
    Kamichu!
    Oh! My Goddess!
    Inu-yasha!

    And then I really screw with their heads by exposing them to back to back Eva and Utena marathons.

    (Me, an anime fan? What ever gives you that impression? ^_~)

  45. Sioux Laris says

    WHAT THE HELL IS THAT GROWING ON THAT TEXAN’S HEAD!!!!!!! It looks like a styled version of “Did, Monster! Die!”

  46. says

    Well, I do think it’s a shame that that’s where the Scooby Doo series went.

    From what I remember, the original Scooby Doo was was of the only places to find rationality and skepticism in cartoons. Weird things would happen, and Scooby and the gang would be summoned to investigate. They’d find out that nothing paranormal was occurring, and that someone in the town was creating a scary hoax. De-masked, that someone would always mutter something about how he’d have gotten away with it if it weren’t for the meddling kids.

    Looks like Scooby veered off into the paranormal, though. Oh well. At least it’s fiction. The screws-loose-loony-toons on that talk show seem to be both real, and serious. That’s really scary.

  48. AlanWCan says

    That guy’s hair came straight from the evil zone.
    They obviously see this as programming because that’s exactly what they are fucking doing. What a bunch of anal retentive asshats.

  49. Numad says

    “And the ‘occult’ figures were the enemy in that show… should they praise Scooby for defeating evil?”

    I’ve always been freaked out by fundies who feel that the very portrayal of an evil thing is itself evil, but they’re out there.

  52. Reed says

    This is awesome. It shows that the fundies themselves realize that their story is so fantastic, it is threatened by the likes of Scooby Doo and He-Man. In other words, there’s no objective way to show the Bible is more true than He-Man, so you had better make sure your kids don’t watch too many cartoons.

    A further dose of irony: These are the same people who want you to “teach the controversy” in science class, because kids are obviously qualified to judge the evidence for themselves. This apparently doesn’t extend to telling the difference between Saturday morning cartoons and the Word of God.

  53. GBM says

    Look I don’t know about you guys, but I am deeply threatened by the very real possibility that children could be using spell 13 to materialize whatever piece of the evil zone they wanted. I think you need to get together, run some folks for your local school board and get some good people in our classrooms letting our kids know how dangerous the evil zone is.

  54. Holli says

    @ #34 Peter-How is wikipedia like retcon? Being able to look stuff up makes us forget it? What?

  55. natural cynic says

    @wowbagger 27

    You’d think if their god was going to bother to speak to people you’d think it might be about something a little more important than the problems caused by a kid’s fucking toy.

    Oh, how little do you realize that their mission is of supreme importance. Poverty? hunger? war? These are not very important when you consider that they are concerned about children losing their eternal souls.

  56. maxamillion says

    These two make this guy look sane

    Saudi Cleric Muhammad Al-Munajid: Mickey Mouse Must Die!

  57. says

    ROFL. Yeah, these guys would love the “drop-acid-and-then-boink-everything-that-walks” type of modern values as portrayed in Utena. There’s lots of nice pagan imagery to enjoy in that one, too. I’m convinced that that series is some sort of metaphor wherein power struggles are symbolized by sex, but I’m not all that certain what the take-home point of it is yet. Maybe breaking away from political maneuvering through free will.
    Or maybe the point is that America is the Great Satan, Children should Practice Witchcraft, Dancing around a fire naked and drinking kitten blood is fun, and lesbians can turn into hawt sports cars.

  58. Hahnda says

    How does he produce standard English phonemes when his lips never, ever meet? That’s what I want to know.

    I suspect an occult explanation.

  59. clinteas says

    OT

    History channel in Australia is showing “The genius of Charles Darwin” next week.Have to have a look at it on YT,anyone seen it?

  60. druidbros says

    These guys are amateurs compared to the (now thankfully) late Rev Jerry Falwell. Does anyone else remember him condemming ‘Tinky Winky’ and Spongebob Squarepants because they were luring our children to the ‘gay’ side?

  61. Glen says

    As a 50-something gay man, I’m pretty adverse to stereotypes. But in addition to Sioux Laris’s pithy comment, “WHAT THE HELL IS THAT GROWING ON THAT TEXAN’S HEAD!!!!!!!” I wanted to scream, “Oh, Mary! Get over yourself!” And, yes, that means exactly what you think it does.

    Thanks, PZ, for yet another tour of the lower rungs of evangelists’ hell.

  62. antaresrichard says

    My poor twin sister! All that exposure to Harvey Comics when she was a kid: Casper, Spooky, Nightmare, Wendy, Hot Stuff…! Dear me, I must save her from Ol’ Harry’s “occultic” influence!

    On a different note: the voice of Vincent Price, thirteen ghosts…? I wonder if there’s a castle in the cartoon belonging to William?

  63. says

    HankFox @37:

    Casper was a small child from Montana on vacation in Kansas with his parents when he was killed by a falling animatronic dinosaur at the Creation Museum.

    Well, not exactly. He was eaten by an animatronic T. rex that mistook his head for a coconut.

  65. says

    No, you have it all wrong. Tom and Jerry are a nefarious evil Jewish plot!

    I still think the first one was satire, though. Just because there are people who believe cartoons are evil out there does not demonstrate that the first example you posted was not satire. It’s a bit of a straw man argument, actually. No one was saying (at least I wasn’t) that people like that don’t exist. I simply thought that you had been (probably) taken in by a parody in that one example.

  66. eddie says

    Re Lago #36 and #42;

    Thanks. I thought there was some sort of 1970s amish thing going on.

    Also, did anyone else notice the family resemblance between the video guy and the cartoon baddy?

  67. Christopher says

    @Hahnda 58

    He looks like ‘a horse trying to eat an apple through a chain-link fence’.

  68. Rob says

    I liked it when he breathlessly explains how children project themselves onto these “satanic” toys.

    Umm, isn’t that what everyone does with toys? I mean everything from GI Joe to Mars rockets (hey I’m a guy), we’re always projecting ourselves into them, making them and their situations real.

    Isn’t that what toys are for? And lacking toys, especially these evil ones, kids will bundle anything together to play with.

    It’s called “using your imagination”.

    That, I guess, is what they are really scared about.

  69. DLC says

    So… what did they think of The Three Little Pigs ?
    Or The Three Little Bops, or Popeye as Cinderella
    ? and all bets are off if either of those twits ever gets their hands on Red Hot Riding Hood.

  70. Glen says

    Duff:

    The plaid chairs probably came from eBay (special section for the Decorating Challenged), or from somebody’s aunt’s musty basement. I, however, was perversely fascinated by the host’s hairdo and ‘stache. I thought that combo went out with men’s platform shoes and glitter balls. Not being a Christian, apparently I was wrong.

  71. says

    These guys are upset by it simply because it mentions a “spell book” and the “evil zone”.

    I love when the God Squad gets on about spell books. As a D&D player for 30 years (ok, that’s childish and silly, but damn, it’s fun) I’ve encountered the disapproving commentary from an entire spectrum of fundies about the game.

    But, it’s a game nothing more.

    On the other hand, there is one book that gives detailed instructions on how to talk to unseen powers. It lists specific rites to be performed to appease the unseen powers. It promises eternal life with the help of unseen powers. It tells you that the unseen powers not only can, but WILL grant any wish simply by your casting the spells the book tells you to cast.

    That book is, of course, the Bible. God walloppers call it praying, but it looks and sounds like spell casting to me… but without the 5d4+5 result.

    Same shit, different pile.

  72. says

    EvolvingSquid @71

    God walloppers call it praying, but it looks and sounds like spell casting to me… but without the 5d4+5 result.

    Hey, that could make it interesting:

    “You are about to embark on an enterprise of uncertain outcome. Roll prayer.”

    “I rolled a three.”

    “God said ‘no’.”

  73. davem says

    Peter:

    but the hair, omigawrsh, that Hair! and those teeth! that guy on the left is not a real human.

    I think that you have stumbled on the truth, there, Peter. These guys are aliens, who, on receiving TV broadcasts from 1970, have dressed up in the fashion of the day, and come to visit us, and impose their religion on us. There is no way young guys like that could be human, and yet so old-fogeyish. Time travel is the only answer. Wooo…

  74. Mike Doughney says

    Reminds me of a Saturday back in 2000, when there were tens of thousands of people on the Mall in Washington, DC for 12 hours for the first of the series of wingnut gatherings known as “The Call” with Lou Engle along with such figures as Bill Bright, Benny Hinn, Bill McCartney and Ron Luce. Middle of the morning – shortly before or after Senator Sam Brownback appeared – some unidentified screaming woman was on stage ranting about “witches and cats coming out of the TV.” This kind of paranoia is probably more common than most people think.

  75. says

    Scooby-Doo has, on occasion veered off into the woo. 13 Ghosts and some of the late ’90s movies basically assumed that all of the spooky stuff was real, and they were, of course, craptastic. The recent run of What’s New, Scooby-Doo returned to the original “mythbusting” roots and have been tolerable to watch with my kids; there’s a lot of self-reference and awareness of their tropes that add to the humor.

    Shaggy & Scooby-Doo Get a Clue, however, should be taken out and shot.

  76. Rowen says

    I love how to be practicing in the occult you have to A) say the number 13 a lot, B) be as generic and non-descript as possible, and C) sing the “there’s a place in France where the naked ladies dance” song.

  77. says

    I really do enjoy that the guest’s name was Phil Phillips… especially when you realise his name really is most likely Philip Phillips.

    Other than that, this show rankled me from the beginning when that creepily moustached fellow talked about exposing Dungeons and Dragons… it just went downhill from there.

  78. Tom Woolf says

    I hate to overuse a phrase, but PZ just keeps pointing these folks out. About them, all I can say is

    “What a bunch of fucking nutjobs.”

  81. senecasam says

    No one should leave a child alone in the care of either of these weirdos – ever. Not for one second!

    Phil Phillips is just plain scary.

  82. Jeanette says

    @clinteas (#59): Dawkins’ “The Genius of Charles Darwin” is awesome, all three parts. My friend Greg got it off the internet and we’re going to have guests over to watch it for one of our movie nights. Nuts are always trying to make it sound like Dawkins is so mean and angry, but when you see him in action up against the most appalling ignorance, his patience and respectful demeanor are really impressive.

  83. J Myers says

    All I see is a blank space where the video should be. Same in Firefox and Explorer–suggestions, anyone?

  84. LMR says

    I also admit to being disappointed in the way Scooby drifted off into “woo” land for a while. I basically stopped watching during the “Scrappy” (read ‘crappy’) era, which is when I think most of it started. (Scooby Doo guest stars not included … Batman & Robin, etc.)

    I saw some newer special when my kids were watching it and thought it was a pile of garbage how all the ghosts/goblins were real. Not that I care much about that in a cartoon, it’s just that there are already a ton of cartoons with that kind of stuff. However, a cartoon about a bunch of skeptics is harder to find.

  85. says

    Hey, that could make it interesting:

    “You are about to embark on an enterprise of uncertain outcome. Roll prayer.”

    “I rolled a three.”

    “God said ‘no’.”

    Certainly church services would be more interesting.

    Priest: O lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the World, we beseech thee…

    (congregation rolls their d20s)

    Priest: Everyone who got over 16 is saved. Everyone who got 1-16 fails. God does not bless you today.

    Drone 1: I rolled 15 but I should get a +2 circumstance bonus because I tithed.

    Priest: fine. You pass.

    Drone 2: I’m wearing a +4 Rosary of the Saviour blessed by the Pope at St. Peters. With my 14 that gives me a total of 18, so I pass.

    Priest: But you stiffed the collection plate and you looked at the tart in the pew in front of you with lustful eyes. That’s -2 and -2. You lose. Sorry. Lake of fire for you.

    Tart: Giggle

  87. KI says

    First off “Scooby-Doo” sucked. Really sucked. Around 1970 some do-gooders decided that cartoon violence was bad for kids, so they eliminated all the funny stuff (Warner Bros, Harveytoons and Tom & Jerry) in favor of sanitized safe crap like “Perils of Penelope Pitstop”, “Wacky Race”, and of course “Scooby-Doo”. Bad writing, horrible animation, pandering garbage to sell toys and candy. At the tender age of thirteen I abandoned cartoons for years until cable brought back my favorites and the genius John K brought us “Ren and Stimpy”.
    Secondly I am astounded that no one here has brought up Adult Swim’s “Squidbillies”! Especially the episode “Armageddon It On!”, wherein the entire town (except the preacher) are raptured to heaven when Jesus misinterprets his father’s command to turn on the Rapture Machine (“What part of ‘definitely next Thursday’ was meant as ‘Maybe’?”) I’m giggling now just thinking of it.

  88. says

    its really hard to tell if they are against the cartoon because

    1) they believe the occult, witchcraft, and astral projections are actually real and therefore a real threat to kids (in which case you might question their own faith)

    or

    2)they believe the occult, witchcraft, and astral projections are utter nonsense and would lead to children worshiping false prophets (in which case you might accuse them of being hypocrites)

    either way it is quite hilarious. i lulz’d

  90. zilch says

    Comrades- our plan is working. We have successfully distracted those TrueBelievers™ who might have foiled us, with red herrings in the form of cheaply produced mindcandy. We can proceed with the institution of the New World Order. All praise to the Horned One (pbuh).

  91. Lago says

    “These guys are amateurs compared to the (now thankfully) late Rev Jerry Falwell. Does anyone else remember him condemming ‘Tinky Winky’ and Spongebob Squarepants because they were luring our children to the ‘gay’ side?”

    The guy on the right did one episode where he “proved” homosexuality was evil, because scientists showed there were birds off of San Francisco on some islands that were gay. His claim was that the evil of homosexuality was spreading by demonic force from the gays on land…

  92. Lago says

    “The plaid chairs probably came from eBay (special section for the Decorating Challenged), or from somebody’s aunt’s musty basement.”

    The show was from pre-ebay…and were new at the time of the shooting.

    “I, however, was perversely fascinated by the host’s hairdo and ‘stache. I thought that combo went out with men’s platform shoes and glitter balls. Not being a Christian, apparently I was wrong.”

    Again, the show you are seeing is from that era. This is an old show you are watching from about 25 years ago or so…

  94. J Myers says

    Update your Flash player.

    I already have the most recent version of Adobe flash player (10.0.12.36). Uninstalled and reinstalled; no change.

  95. says

    Update your Flash player.

    I already have the most recent version of Adobe flash player (10.0.12.36). Uninstalled and reinstalled; no change.

    Dang. Old flash is the most common cause of the blank / black square that I’ve seen in the last few months. Oh well.

  96. SteveM says

    I already have the most recent version of Adobe flash player (10.0.12.36). Uninstalled and reinstalled; no change.

    Are you at work, by any chance? Could your employer be filtering?

  97. 60613 says

    I cannot possibly take seriously anything that anyone who would sit in a plaid wing back chair might say. The chairs themselves are evil – and are injecting that evil into those two guys via their anuses.

  99. littlejohn says

    Hey, give Phil a chance! At night he fights crime by deflecting bullets with his hair. But the mustache guy just hangs out at truck stops with U.S. Senator Larry Craig.

  100. J Myers says

    Are you at work, by any chance? Could your employer be filtering?

    Yes, and I suppose, though that would be new. Had the same problem at home a few days ago with this post (which I still can’t see, either).

  101. Brad D says

    Damnit! I tried and tried to “project” myself into my toys as a kid. Sadly I never could get into my X-wing fighter, and I never could make my light saber actually cut anything or fly across the room into my palm. My Imperial blaster never did much either, maybe if I had got Han Solo’s blaster instead?

    As far as the age of this video: They talk about the He-Man cartoon as if it is current, so that has to be early 1980’s.

  102. SammyP says

    Here’s the reasoning of these lovely chaps:

    Scooby Doo contains witches and satanic elements – therefore it must be evil, no matter if they are depicted as the hero or villain.

    we can therefore reason that – The Bible contains witches and satanic elements – therefore it must be evil, no matter if they are depicted as the hero or villain.

  105. ED says

    This reminds me of my time in an Assemblies of God church in the 1980’s. One of the sermons I remember was about how the Smurf’s ( I kid you not!) were poisoning our children. It was an hour long rant about these demonic little blue people. I see that some of christendom hasn’t progressed one iota since the 1980″s.

  106. says

    Think I’ll project myself into my time machine and ask those guys what they think of Monopoly.

    If I can stop giggling at the fashion-stuff long enough.

  107. Sastra says

    It’s interesting comparing the complaints against the media’s depiction of the supernatural in this old Christian video with the complaints against the media’s depiction of the supernatural made by the skeptic and humanist groups.

    Those empirical rationalists who don’t believe there is a supernatural realm generally don’t mind fictional stories: many are even fans. Skeptic complaints are directed at shows which purport to be documentaries, or at those fictional shows which somehow hint that they’re “based on real events.” They’re deliberately misleading the public. Humanists can tell the difference between fiction and fantasy, and generally hope that most people can. Anyone who starts to believe that magic is real because they saw it in Bewitched or He-Man and the Masters of the Universe is not being manipulated; they have other problems.

    One of the few exceptions to the fictional/non-fictional dividing line is, ironically, Scooby-Doo. A lot of secular humanists felt that the cartoon was a rather effective role model for children when it came to promoting the value of critical thinking: the “ghosts” and “spooks” the group pursued would always turn out to be the crabby old man who ran the carnival. They’d investigate the paranormal, and there would be natural explanations. As someone explained, that changed suddenly. They thought they’d appeal more to modern kids if the magic was real.

    The problem there then wasn’t that magic in a cartoon was being portrayed as real. It was that one of the few acceptable media depictions of skepticism was changed. Usually, the lone “skeptic” in fictional stories is only there to pooh-pooh away evidence which would convince anyone who wasn’t a total idiot, before finally being killed by the ghost or whatever it was they were denying.

  108. says

    1) they believe the occult, witchcraft, and astral projections are actually real and therefore a real threat to kids (in which case you might question their own faith)

    I think believing that non-Christian claims of the supernatural were real but Satanic actually used to be the default Christian position and some of the fundie types cling to it. It’s not a bug in their faith; it’s a very stupid feature,

  109. Greg says

    Yeah, I totally practiced the occult when I was younger, thanx to shows like Scooby Doo, Dungeons & Dragons, Thundercats, and other.

    Although, not He-Man though. He-Man made me question my sexuality, more than anything. Haha, I’m surprised they didn’t point this out in the video.

  110. says

    It’s true that this video is about 25 years old, but what’s really sad and a little scary is that there are still plenty of people today who believe the same stupidity. (e.g., the ruckus over Harry Potter, Twilight, etc.)

  112. Quiet_Desperation says

    Cartoons can’t be evil?

    You haven’t see much of the animated output from Dreamworks in recent years, have you?

  113. Sengkelat says

    KI #87 said:

    First off “Scooby-Doo” sucked. Really sucked. …
    Bad writing, horrible animation, pandering garbage to sell toys and candy. At the tender age of thirteen I abandoned cartoons for years until cable brought back my favorites and the genius John K brought us “Ren and Stimpy”.

    You, sir, are wrong on all counts. While there was some Scooby Doo merchandise, it was secondary to the cartoon. It wasn’t until well after Scooby Doo was on the scene that cartoons started being simply promotional tools to toy lines. At least that’s how I remember it. As for Scooby Doo being poorly written, perhaps the problem was that you were still watching cartoons when you were a teenager. Of course they’re going to seem simple. I stopped watching when I was 9 or so.

    Scooby Doo always presented a mystery, which encouraged the viewer to try to figure out the answers, and the answers were always to be found in the real world. Though it didn’t occur to me at the time, I think I loved it most because it was a cartoon for skeptics. (Though even I couldn’t stand it once Scrappy Doo showed up)

    As for Ren & Stimpy…ugh. It has some funny parts, but it’s mostly just bad.

  114. Karen says

    My 5 year old sliced off my arm with a light saber this morning, and than shot a bullet just under my skin. I told him I guess I can’t make breakfast for him now. He rolled his eyes at me and said “Mum, it’s just pretend, I’m just playing. It’s not real, these are just toys. Can I eat now?”

    Kids these days with they’re rational and critical thinking.

  115. says

    I got to this thread late.

    As a party to the perpetration of He Man and She Ra on the youth of America, I have to take some blame/credit. I had worked one season at Filmation (my first to get paid for using a pencil) working on BlackStar, and then worked on NIMH for Bluth, so I missed the series that should have killed Filmation, Gilligan’s Planet. But Mattel had a Conan doll they couldn’t get to market because Arnold didn’t want to be a little girly boy toy, so Mattel hired Filmation to put together a mythos in a commercial for the New York Toy Fair, the networks didn’t want to buy a 22 minute commercial for toys, so since Filmation had been purchased by Westinghouse, which owned a huge network of TV stations, they invented First-Run Syndication, and suddenly we had 65 episodes of He Man cartoons to crank out. Yes, that was B5’s J. Michael Straczynski on world-building.

    Yes, Prince Adam was a pansy in pink and purple tights, until he held aloft his mighty sword and became a leather queen. His strange proportions are due to the fact that we rotoscoped a body builder from up the street at Gold’s Gym who was about 5 feet tall.
    We had a lot of work to do on She Ra’s proportions too.

    Because of Castle Grayskull, there were just as many Xtians who took it as metaphor for Golgotha and all that happy rot. We got lots more flack at the time for the show’s purported violence. Trust me, we didn’t have the budget to animate any violence. The closest Skeletor ever came to harm was He Man talking him to death.
    We thought it was the last thing the studio would ever do, yet when I was selling Commodore 64s at a video store at the close of the season, every kid in the neighborhood would come into the store and demand that all sets be tuned to He Man. They knew all the characters and sub-plots and story arcs. Damn you JMS! Between He Man and She Ra, we cranked out over 200 episodes in that universe, and were one of the very last studios in America to produce everything under one roof without shipping jobs overseas.

  116. FirstTimeCaller says

    That’s Pastor Gary! We used to watch him in college when he had shows exposing backward messages in rock music. He had an awesome record collection with some great heavy metal music.

    Did you know that Queen’s “Another One Bites the Dust” says “It’s fun to smoke marijuana” when played backwards? It’s true! Paster Gary said so.

  117. Walton says

    I liked Scooby-Doo when I was a kid… but the best cartoon show ever, hands down, is Garfield and Friends. It is sheer brilliance. I still watch old episodes regularly on YouTube, and I’m 19.

  119. says

    You have my sympathy and apologies, PZ. Thanks to the magic of DVD, my 7 year old thinks they’re great too. He likes Bravestarr too, but mostly because he knows his old man was rotoscoped for the bad guy, Tex Hex.

  121. Dr. Strangelove. says

    We all the best cartoon to scare christians is the old Ghostbusters cartoon.

    Even though (holy)ghosts turned out to be bunk Egon got me to pay more attention in science class.

    Winston Zeddemore: Ray. If someone asks if you are a god, you say, “yes!”

  123. peter says

    Holli@54
    I don’t think the original creators had any idea what casper’s origin was when it was created other than the fact that he was a dead child. casper used to spend his time around what was apparently his own grave. over time I suspect many people asked and they had to come up with a plausible and non-threatening answer. any long running serialized entertainment eventually runs into continuity errors, and has to come up with a new explanation for how things got the way they are. see star trek:klingon foreheads, doctor who and the human mother etc. any long running comic book (see: jean grey (can you tell I’m a geek yet?))

    what becomes canonical is a bit of a toss-up. the first paragraph in the wikipedia article is about the debate. and apparently for the years between creation in the ’30s and the series in the ’60s and onwards, casper was a dead child. only later did the ‘married ghost parents’ story show up.

    I suppose my use of ‘retcon’ was ill advised. it’s just that wikipedia articles tend to be a bit wishy-washy when confronted with great philosophical questions like this one./sarcasm

    I still think it’s an interesting (if distorted) window on a person to know their answer to that question. sort of like the pratchett question “If your house was on fire, what’s the first thing you would take out of the house?”
    not necessarily meaningful, but interesting nonetheless…

  124. Lago says

    “This reminds me of my time in an Assemblies of God church in the 1980’s. One of the sermons I remember was about how the Smurf’s ( I kid you not!) were poisoning our children. It was an hour long rant about these demonic little blue people. I see that some of christendom hasn’t progressed one iota since the 1980″s.”

    For the Millionth time people..THE VIDEO IS FROM THE EARLY 80S. IT WAS NOT VIDEOTAPES ANY LESS THAN 25 YEARS AGO!!!!

  125. Margaret says

    Wowbagger: I do like the part where they explain that the cartoons are based on ‘actual occult practices’ – implying that the occult practices are real. Scary credulity, even by xian standards.

    That sounds much like what I heard flipping through TV channels years ago (~20?): D&D was horrible and promoted Satanism since it didn’t use made up symbols, it used the real Satanic symbols!

    These nuts really do think the occult is real, and that you have to use the good occult (praying & their god) to counter the bad occult (spells & their devil).

  126. says

    Hmmm… Am I the only one to see the irony in that robo-dude’s claim “[…] and then God spoke to me, and told me how children project their imagination in those toys […]” Talk about a spit-take.

    It’s clear what their problem is with those cartoons, though. They can’t stand the competition.

    I wonder what they’d say about Princess Clara in Drawn Together :D (not to mention the rest of their cast)

  127. KI says

    @113
    I should have made clear that I was referring to the commercials in between the scenes, I know that the big marketing promotions and tie-ins started later. As for taste, to each his own, I still hate most Hanna-Barbera post 1960 or so. BTW who ever said cartoons were just for kids? Tex Avery and Bob Clampett sure didn’t make kidtoons!

  128. Kyle W. says

    I’m late to comment, but I can vividly remember our preacher (some 20 years ago) saying, from the pulpit, words that caught my 6 or 7 year old ears:

    “When He-Man says he has the power, I guarantee you he don’t mean the power of the blood of Jesus.”

    And, from that point on, I was forbidden to watch He-Man and had all my He-Man toys confiscated. BULLSHIT.

  129. JJR says

    I do like to point out that just because it’s animated (whether moving or still) doesn’t automatically mean = appropriate for kids.

    Too many parents still seem to make that erroneous assumption.

    I love animated stuff…graphic novels, Japanese anime, other foreign animation (Ardman, et.al.), independent animated film (including Bruce Bickford’s f*cked up stuff, R. Crumb works), plus a lot of [Adult Swim] stuff (especially Robot Chicken!), Invader Zim, Spike & Mike’s Sick & Twisted Animation Fest…but much of it is clearly intended as adult consumption only.

    Of course, the best of Loony Toons always had 2-level humor. Straight up physical humor for the kids, sophisticated word-play for the adults.

    I wonder what these people’s take would be on Veggie Tales?
    (Not that I’ve watched any of that dreck).

    Sidebar: Is it just me, or has Moral Orel on Cartoon Network has really gotten dark, lately? It’s like the producers have forgotten they’re also supposed to be funny. I liked it better when it was just a ridiculous farce and send up of religion, but it’s getting increasingly grim on that show.

    I think animators will always have a subversive edge to them, and the Godbots will always fear them for that alone.

  130. says

    I’m late to comment, but I can vividly remember our preacher (some 20 years ago) saying, from the pulpit, words that caught my 6 or 7 year old ears:

    “When He-Man says he has the power, I guarantee you he don’t mean the power of the blood of Jesus.”

    And, from that point on, I was forbidden to watch He-Man and had all my He-Man toys confiscated. BULLSHIT.

    It could have been worse. Your preacher could have noticed that the electric company claimed to supply power too.

  134. says

    Um … so levitation is bad, right?

    Wasn’t there, y’know, a dude who levitated, y’know, in that book–the Bible? Didn’t he like “ascend into heaven”?

    So like, he was the devil, then?

    The occulticity, it burns.

  137. Penh says

    OMG, it’s Phil Phillips!! I’m a huge fan of his anti-toy screed, “Turmoil in the Toybox.” My second-favorite part is when he talks about having his conversion experience when he fell into an outhouse. My favorite part, of course, is when he warns us all that people who find parallels between E.T. and Jesus are falling prey to Satanic illusion! “The different between them is that Jesus is the son of God, while E.T. is a demonic-looking alien who is not God.” Because some people need to be reminded. I also was very relieved to find that the Star Wars series isn’t outright Satanic, but merely Buddhist, although that’s almost as bad.

  138. Longtime Lurker says

    Ken Cope, you’ll never know but you’re my hero!

    But Mattel had a Conan doll they couldn’t get to market because Arnold didn’t want to be a little girly boy toy

    I thought it was because the Conan movie was R-rated, and the execs at Mattel had to reconsider children’s toys based on a movie with an orgy scene and heaps o’ blood and guts. Skeletor was to have been a “Thulsa Doom” figure.

    Original Scooby Doo was fantastic, stoner, lustful teen couple, skepchick, and Great Dane expose plots by the man to defraud gullible rubes while following the Dead cross country!

    Regarding the Smurfs… could it be any clearer? Socialist Men Under Red Father!

    http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Cinema/3117/sociosmurf2.htm

    Yeah, Marxism promulgated in the U.S. right under Reagan’s nose, in a children’s cartoon.

  139. the pro from dover says

    You don’t like Ren and Stimpy? What’s the matter with you? Didn’t you ever learn critical thinking or just teach the controversy? Why do you hate America and the baby Jesus?

  140. says

    Even though I don’t know it, I’m feeling heroic, yet cheesy.

    Longtime Lurker, Mattel already had a MOTU toy line that wasn’t going anywhere in 1981. The face was modeled on Arnold, whose Conan was released in 1982, and I’d be very surprised if some kind of merchandising tie-in had not been in negotiation, but when the movie came out, it was at about the same time that Filmation crafted the He-Man mythos for the New York Toy Fair commercial. In 1988 I did the modeling and 3D animation on 3D versions of the characters, re-tooled for space adventure, as a commercial for that year’s Toy Fair, and got to visit Mattel and check out their prototypes for the new toys. Production had started in earnest on the MOTU series before the end of 1982 with cash from Mattel and Westinghouse, which aired in September of 1983. There are conflicting stories about this, none of which are resolved by Snopes, so I always go with the one with the best punchlines.

  143. says

    Ken Cope

    I prefer the French remake. :)

    Skeletor: This is great, this is fantastic! This is the best book of ultimate evil I’ve ever read! Why isn’t it out in paperback?

  144. John says

    Hey, that could make it interesting:

    “You are about to embark on an enterprise of uncertain outcome. Roll prayer.”

    “I rolled a three.”

    “God said ‘no’.”

    Could be worse…

    “Oh, no! I rolled a one!”
    “Critical Miss. Roll a d6.”
    “Two. What’s that?”
    “Festering Boils. -2 dexterity, -6 charisma, until you perform penance adequately pleasing in the eyes of The Lord. 4d5, once per turn after five turns, and you’ll need at least a 19.”

  146. cheeb says

    “Reisman lists these “erototoxins” as testosterone, adrenaline, oxytocin, glucose, dopamine, serotonin, and phenylethylamine.”

    Glucose??

    Come on, freaking glucose?!

    Must’ve evolved to deal with that toxin…

  149. John C. Randolph says

    For JCR, after Cab Calloway and Betty Boop, music and animation was all downhill.

    I didn’t say that. It just hit a low point in the late 70s, and early 80s, and scooby doo is an example of poor efforts. There’s some great work being done these days by Pixar and various Japanese studios.

    -jcr

  150. RickrOll says

    Posted by: Knight of L-sama |
    I really, [i]really[/i] want to sit these douche-bags down in a room and play them a select group of some of my preferred viewing. I would then cackle madly as I watched their brains shatter.

    Slayers!
    Kamichu!
    Oh! My Goddess!
    Inu-yasha!

    And then I really screw with their heads by exposing them to back to back Eva and Utena marathons.
    —-+—–

    What about ghost in the Shell, where one of the main characters is a complete athiest and god-hater lol? Later they talk about prettymuch transcending God at the end of 2nd GIG. Nice picks there lol. i also have 3 more words:

    Wolf’s Rain HHAHAhahahah ha

    scrabcake @ 57:
    Oh, the lol. it hurts.

  151. says

    The New Adventures of Mighty Mouse was produced by Ralph Bakshi and directed by John K, before he animated Ren and Stimpy. It’s the show that got yanked off the air because Mighty Mouse sniffed a flower, but fundy Donald Wildmon thought it was cocaine. This is one of the funniest episodes, featuring Elwy and the Tree Weasels. Half the episode was narrated by Mashy the Pup. Who is Mashy the Pup? Bakshi and John K were sharing studio space with the Bagdasarians, who were working on an Alvin and the Chipmunks animated feature. Bagdasarian and the Missus were desperately trying to conceive, and finally succeeded. Concerned that their obnoxious dog would freak out in a fit of jealousy when the new baby arrived, they put a doll on the couple’s bed to get the dog used to the idea. In a fit of rage, the dog shredded the doll and ran out into the street whereupon he got flattened, thus, Mashy the Pup. Oh, also, Bagdasarian also munched on Cheerios and talked with his mouth full. Now you know the rest of the story.

  152. RickrOll says

    Posted by: Knight of L-sama |
    I really, [i]really[/i] want to sit these douche-bags down in a room and play them a select group of some of my preferred viewing. I would then cackle madly as I watched their brains shatter.

    Slayers!
    Kamichu!
    Oh! My Goddess!
    Inu-yasha!

    And then I really screw with their heads by exposing them to back to back Eva and Utena marathons.
    —-+—–

    What about ghost in the Shell, where one of the main characters is a complete athiest and god-hater lol? Later they talk about prettymuch transcending God at the end of 2nd GIG. Nice picks there lol. i also have 3 more words:

    Wolf’s Rain HHAHAhahahah ha

    scrabcake @ 57:
    Oh, the lol. it hurts.

  153. RickrOll says

    DAMMIT!! super-delayed getting up here! i thought it didn’t get through. Please delete one of them PZ. sorry guys. GRRRR! I hate it when this happens!

  154. says

    I didn’t say that. It just hit a low point in the late 70s, and early 80s, and scooby doo is an example of poor efforts.

    There was plenty of brilliant animation being done all over the place in the 70s and 80s, if you knew where to look–just none of it was on Saturday morning. Most of the American pioneers who hadn’t died were old and in the way, and reluctantly training new kids. Animation Festivals had no shortage of brilliant shorts from all over the world throughout the 70s and 80s. Miyasaki made many films before Totoro. Contrary to public belief, John Lasseter did not invent the 12 principles of animation. I look forward, just once, to seeing a Pixar or Disney film that doesn’t prominently feature the “easter egg” A113.

    I defy you to find any cels of Superfriends, Captain Caveman, Scrappy Doo, Heathcliff or Plastic Man where I painted outside the lines.

  156. Aquaria says

    OMFSM! This was just the most hilarious thing!

    But to make a few corrections:

    “I, however, was perversely fascinated by the host’s hairdo and ‘stache. I thought that combo went out with men’s platform shoes and glitter balls. Not being a Christian, apparently I was wrong.”

    Again, the show you are seeing is from that era. This is an old show you are watching from about 25 years ago or so…

    25 years ago would have been 1983 (a very good approximation for this video, given the He-Man ref), and platform shoes were OUT OUT OUT by then. In fact, they had been a joke for about 5 years; platform shoes were all but gone by fall 1978, even in hillbilly East Texas, where I lived at the time. I know I wouldn’t have been caught dead in them after 1977, fashion monster that I was back then.

  157. RickrOll says

    OMFSM?? OH, MY Fucking Spaghetti Monster….Nice. I really hate how this place just goes dead after midnight (pacific time). *crickets cricketing* (or more in line with the anime theme *ciceadas chirping*)

  158. Kel says

    I really hate how this place just goes dead after midnight (pacific time)

    When I’m home of an evening, this place is practically deserted. The Aussies are on when no-one else is.

  159. Nerdcore Steve says

    This is sooooo familiar. It’s like walking down memory lane. These guys are why I didn’t play D&D as a kid.

  160. RickrOll says

    well aussies, make your voice heard! Ring out in the desolate silence!! Utter the Incantation that will bestow +5 intellect upon the pitiful believers. I beseech thee!
    (Actually, i never played D&D either lol)

  161. John C. Randolph says

    I defy you to find any cels of Superfriends, Captain Caveman, Scrappy Doo, Heathcliff or Plastic Man where I painted outside the lines.

    That is rather beside the point, isn’t it? Immaculate painting doesn’t help an insipid script.

    -jcr

  165. mindlesley says

    goodonya Kel, its very quite in US when we’re on down here.
    Couldn’t concentrate on satire question. Just kept humming the jazz standard “Witchcraft” over and over in my head.
    And the HAIR!
    One from the 60’s musical Hair.
    But the one on the left – painted harlot hair a la Elvis on bad pills.And the thick makeup. They seared themselves into my conciousness in a very demonic way. I was scared.
    Pity that someone didn’t project a thought-form into their dysanimated shells. your shattered correspondent, Mindlesley

  168. Lance Boyle says

    I had a Barbie doll when I was a kid. I imbued Barbie with all kinds of unwholesome characteristics. I know she put at least one serious hex on Ken (the evil eye, I think). Did I really need a doll to be holding an occult symbol to project my evil thoughts into the doll? People make dolls evil. Dolls come out of the factory free from all sin.

    I think we can blame the introduction of the occult into popular entertainment on Shakespeare. He had the three witches (shamelessly knocked off by Scooby Doo writers here) casting spells in MacBeth. We should burn all prints of books by Shakespeare the Occult Leader.