The kind of smug, self-righteous ignorance and bigotry this woman displays is frighteningly common, I’m afraid. It’s the one thing that makes me worry about the outcome of the election.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
i puked a little :<
I have seen this before…. I don’t think she believes a single word she is saying.
I think she is either she is lying, or she hasn’t said any of that out loud and doesn’t know how to say it.
I can’t imagine being married to that harpy. Just her facial expressions when speaking. What an abrasive, intolerant, hateful woman.
I am very sad and very scared for my country.
Ignorant POS twit. Not that I have a strong opinion. The most important thing is what you THINK your imaginary friend cares about. WTF.
Mrs. Fatty Bigot should look up the passage in the Bible about gluttony.
What a perfect example of “too stupid to vote.”
Hey lady, your Bible says something about “By their works shall ye know them.” How can you possibly give Palin and McLame a free pass on (apparent) piety after watching them lie and lie and lie?
Well, at least she admits -he- knows what the right decision is.
How disgusting…
Dude! Have kids?
if not….RUN!!!!! RUN NOW!!!!! GO GO GO! Save yourself from years of pain and suffering! Just think, after this life, you can look forward to an eternity of being with her in heaven! Ack!
“He knows what the right decision is…”
holy crap man, is that how it is on every decision? The right one is the one she thinks?
That woman is a gobshite.
To her husband: divorce. Before it’s too late.
Did any one else notice that she seems to be more bothered with Obama’s Muslim father, than his atheist mother?
Well the only good thing is that as much as people think that this country is mostly rednecks, and it often does seem that way, but about 70% of the country lives in cities of over 50,000 people (58% in cities over 200,000. Yeah the rednecks take up a much bigger area, but thats just because city folks can stand living near each other.
Yeah i’m sure he does know what the right decision is. Its called divorce and let god take care of the ignorant hateful, bigoted shrew. I’m embarassed for him.
“Just her facial expressions when speaking. ”
I know, she has a huge arrow on her face.
My town is over run by these damned fools. Just driving out to the farm I will see 20 McCain/Palin yard signs and maybe 1 Obama/Bidden sign. There are no Nader or McKinney signs.
I get bucket loads of this shit thrown at me every time I go to the book store or market. *snort*
Sadly, this hag reminds me of a few relatives of mine. This kind of fanciful ignorance and juvinial arrogance is all to common.
“For Tracy, this election is not so much about policies, as it is about values”. It’s funny how many people state that McCain is a better representative of family values. Here’s the text from an e-mail which I received, which does a far better job of explaining the hypocrisy than I could.
“Let me see if I have this straight….
If you grow up in Hawaii, raised by your grandparents, you’re ‘exotic, different.’.Grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers, a quintessential American story.
If your name is Barack, you’re a radical, unpatriotic Muslim. Name your kids Willow, Trig and Track, you’re a maverick.
Graduate from Harvard Law School and you are unstable.
Attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you’re well grounded.
If you spend 3 years as a community organizer, become the
first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate’s Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and
Veteran’s Affairs committees, you don’t have any real leadership experience.
If your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you’re qualified to become the country’s second highest ranking executive.
If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 daughters, all within Protestant churches, you’re not a real Christian. If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, left your wife and married the heiress the next month, you’re a Christian.
If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society. If, while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state’s school system while your unwed
teen daughter ends up pregnant , you’re very responsible.
If your wife is a Harvard graduate lawyer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your family’s values don’t represent America. If you’re husband is nicknamed ‘First Dude’, with at least one DWI conviction and no college education, who didn’t register to vote until age 25 and once was a member of a group that advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is extremely admirable.
OK, much clearer now. “
That’s the “one thing” that makes you worry? Well, I’ll be. I haven’t read your blog for long but I must say you, dear Sir, are an incredible optimist! Makes me smile (really!).
Personally, I worry more about the fact of the 2000 election being stolen (it was never, ever “won”) and the 2004 election showing that the voting process corruption established is now status quo.
But I’m not quite the optimist you are. ;)
Obama, mah bukee, keel-ee caleya ku kah. Wanta dah moole-rah? Wonkee chee sa crispa con Greedo?
She looks like a Christian (fat, stupid looking face). She sounds like a Christian (insane stupid asshole).
No lipstick on that particular pig.
I saw this video earlier today via RD.NET. What crossed my mind is that likely she is not saying her true feelings inasmuch as she is curtailing her speech due to being on camera. What I kept hearing in my head is “I’m not voting for some n*gger”. I live in southern West Virginia (USA for you guys over seas) and I hear this almost daily. When I first listened to Obama, I was amazed at how rational he seemed to be and how progressive his talk was; it truly never even occurred to me that he was black. Of course, I still don’t care, unlike my neighbors and even my family and friends. This is the level of idiocy we are against; she made not a single coherent argument against Obama.
KKK endorses McKlan, er, I mean McCain. No surprise there.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=138_1224533701
God, save me from your followers!
All I could think of the whole time listening to her and watching her was
ribbit
@25: I was just about to say that.
Notice how every answer she gave was essentially a sound-bite? She never umm’ed and ahh’ed, and neither did she really explain anything in depth. Her longest answer was about Obama’s background and even then it was simply a list of facts (with implied negativity) and a simple sound-bite conclusion.
She’s a parrot. An un-thinking parrot, regurgitating hate-filled talking points.
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
…and hey, please don’t equate “fat” with either Christian or stupid… that’s not fair or correct.
When are the voting-booths going to have a sign saying “you must be this smart to vote”?
Seriously, how do these people exist in the 21st century. This is supposed to be the future. PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SMART!
if you are pro-family-values then vote mccain. after all he is so pro-family that he left his first wife to start a *second* family.
Here’s what I don’t get. If “God will provide,” why vote at all? What would it matter who you vote for?
OK, lady, what is? And how does McCain qualify?
now, if she was hawt we might be able to watch, i mean listen, to her viewpoint.
“He knows what the right decision is”
Why do I have the feeling that she ends every argument with this?
That awful woman’s husband deserves our sympathy. Jeeeez, just think about living with that. Ughhhhhh!
I saw this “human being” (and I use the term loosely) on NOW Friday night. What a disgustingly vile piece of trash. I think electing a black president would be the very best thing that could happen to yokels like this. They just might do us all a favor and spontaneously combust.
I agree with Richard at #22
She is definetly saying that. the whole, “I’m not voting for someone named Obama” and “It represents his background” are such blatant code for OMG Teh Black! Oeh Noes!
Man she is just so horribly smug and nasty, you have to wonder what he sees in her.
“I’ll pray for him, he knows the right choice” Yeah right. I bet you she won’t be giving him a choice. She acts exactly like the type of person who dominates their spouse through extremely heavy passive aggressiveness. I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near that house any time soon.
Thanks, Jello.
“Juvenile arrogance” is exactly the odious aspect of this woman’s character that I’ve been trying to put my finger on. She appears to be about as emotionally developed as a particularly maladjusted 8-year-old.
She’s exactly like that nasty little kid none of the other kids want to play with. She’s convinced herself that it’s because they’re “jealous” and just know that she’s so much “better” – not because she’s actually a despicable, mean-spirited, sociopathic, bullying, intellectually vacant, emotionally poisonous, disgusting toad of a human being.
It has been my extreme misfortune to actually know people like this.
The funny thing is that John McCain is pretty clearly less religious and less comfortable with discussing his religion than Barack Obama is.
This corpulent cow has me shaking with anger and a touch of fear that her sentiments aren’t isolated to this one particular bigot. No matter what his profession of faith is, having been born of an atheist and a Muslim, Obama is tainted for life in this shitkicker’s eyes. Thus,only good people are Christians that follow her particular sect/cult/denomination are “true” Christians. Where do they find idiots like this?
You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.
Attack her stupidity fine, but let’s leave the slamming of her appearance to the lesser minds, eh?
Her appearance does not make her a stupid bigot.
Oh my god. :-( (my god being FSM)
Is this woman related to the rainbow-in-the-sprinkler lady?
Oof. Just oof.
According to this womans “logic” she would have really hated our atheist, deist, and pantheist Founding Fathers I guess? But it’s not about that, it’s about race. 2008 and racism is still going strong, GO AMERICA!
There are times where you have to slap a bitch….that wasa right time.
Today’s program is brought to you by the letters F, U, and this bigoted hag.
@22:
Yeah, she -almost- comes out and speaks her heart when she states she can’t picture a president named Obama. It’s very plain what she means by that: it’s too non-white sounding.
Crazy world we live in when one of the two major political parties of one of the most powerful nations absolutely panders to and relies on this kind of smug, aggressive ignorance in its constituents.
Reminds me of an Onion headline from a while back. “Study: 38% of people not actually entitled to their opinion.”
Orac, you’re right about that and it’s been my only major *ugh* with Obama. His pandering to the religious may simply be a necessary evil to get him into the White House. It’s sad that he would have to do it, provided that it’s just an act of course. I really hope it’s just an act and that he sticks with secularism and logic when running the country (which he appears poised to do).
If she was slimmer and brunette she would be a clone of my sister-in-law.
When I was younger I thought these types would be minority on the fringe. We would toss peanuts to them at the zoo on weekends.
Fast-forward to present day and now it seems like I am completely surrounded by wet-brained morons.
Do people realize that Americans have elected only 2 democrats since 1968? Maybe a little sanity, and my hope for our once-secular country, will be restored after the election.
what nicole said @28… x2
Oh I agree 100%. The fact that I thought at any moment she was going to snap a fly out of the air with her tongue has no bearing on the batshittery she was spewing out of her mouth. But it at least makes it funnier.
This woman is frightening. Richard Wolford@#22, I agree — I kept hearing the same thing, like she really wanted to say “I won’t vote for a n*”. Her bigoted version of logic isn’t even internally consistent — even if all Christians despised Muslims, at the very least Muslims shouldn’t have a problem with a president with a Muslim father. It’s not values at all.
Isn’t she a catch? That guy is lucky! I wish them TONS of years together.
every time i see stuff like this, i get more convinced that the human race has split into two species: the ones who use logic and reason, and the ones who use hate and fear. obviously interbreeding with the other side is rapidly becoming unlikely.
penguin: the word “gobshite” was invented for her.
If this is a real, true American woman, I don’t want to be any of those things. As it is, I guess I’ll just have to keep being an ACTUAL real true American woman, and counteract the crazy whenever I can.
@ Marsha #18
Yup, here we go again:
http://www.gregpalast.com/rolling-stone-its-already-stolen/#more-2118
@# 42 “Her appearance does not make her a stupid bigot.”
well, actually you could conjecture that such a manatee is not intellectually capable of defining her correct diet or self beautification regime because she believes in bronze-age myths.
or might that be the other way round?
however you call it, there is a correlation between stupidity, religion, obesity, inward as well as outward ugliness.
She’ll pray for him? She just told her husband to go fuck himself in front of a reporter!
Hey, for a nice respite from this harridan, check out this cool news… LOVECRAFT WAS RIGHT!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20081021/sc_livescience/hugemountainrangeshouldnotbethere
I approve of ColinB’s statement.
Like others here I think electing Obama would give this country the damn good shakeup it needs. When the world doesn’t end maybe these racists, and that’s all it is: racism, will shut the feck up.
@27:
“She’s a parrot. An un-thinking parrot, regurgitating hate-filled talking points.”
She’s a fine example of duckspeak
The real scary portion is that this couple, this breeding couple to be more explicit, is setting an example of intolerance, ignorance and stupidity based upon a morality system that was handed down- aka child brainwashing theologies- to her most likely through previous generations, influencing like-minded individuals to react in like-minded ways.. hence the term “sheeple”. It is truly a sad discourse of a prevalent cultural problem here in the “west” and unfortunately most prevalent in our southern states were education takes a back seat to indoctrination.
I can’t view the video here at work. Can someone advise me of the name of the clip so I can look it up on another site?
however you call it, there is a correlation between stupidity, religion, obesity, inward as well as outward ugliness.
No, there really isn’t.
“Two Minutes Hate” from McCain?
PZ, have you heard this one yet?
http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/1008/GOP_Rep_Liberals_Hate_Real_Americans_That_Work_And_Achieve_And_Believe_In_God.html?showall
Republican Rep. Robin Hayes : “liberals hate real Americans that work and achieve and believe in God.”
Republican Party = One big thought-terminating cliche .
“I can’t view the video here at work. Can someone advise me of the name of the clip so I can look it up on another site? ”
Sure, it’s called “ribbity ribbity comp chomp Jesus chomp croak.”
Carlie (@#62) is correct.
Religiosity is one thing.
Intelligence, another.
Smug ignorance a third.
Facial symmetry and correspondence to current cultural markers of “ugliness,” yet another.
Body-mass index, still another thing.
There are no necessary correlations among any of them, causal or descriptive.
The frozen vid in PZs post contains a giant bean bag chair, no? With a terrifying face on top? Is it a special bean bag chair for Halloween, to scare the bejebus out of you when you sit on it?
Seriously, the coward that I am, I will not play this vid.
@#55.
OMG… Rolling Stone wrote the article that I want to shout from the rooftops!!!!… even my conclusion: Obama must not only win, he must win by a landslide to overcome the vote rigging. Of *that* I’m not convinced he can do… I sure hope so.
Thanks for the link!
Fantasy scenario: this guy’s hard-thought-out Obama vote leads him to a high position as a trade union reformer. Wife dumps him because she thinks he’s turning into a communist; his next girlfriend is a hot, black twentysomething life sciences PhD, her next boyfriend is an impotent dolt who would be an abuser if he wasn’t so easily cowed.
I just hope that they haven’t bred.
“Republican Party = One big thought-terminating cliche.”
I might say that this kind of thought is more from the Conservative group. A plain old Republican doesn’t have to believe that kind of garbage.
What PZ has posted is the second part of the video. During the first half it is only the husband and I have sympathy for him because he is afraid that what he thought was a good job may disappear soon. So much for Bush corporate welfare policy.
But his wife will pray and everything will be just fine.
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.”
–Thomas Jefferson
The poor man must be spinning in his grave.
The funny thing is that John McCain is pretty clearly less religious and less comfortable with discussing his religion than Barack Obama is.
Yeah but Obama is a Jewish Muslim Arab Atheist Communist though. She meant she wants to vote for the one with the most faith in her Lord. She ain’t no Jewish Muslim Arab Atheist Communist!!
Hey Shawn, you know what to do! Find yourself another wife! Don’t worry, fundy stats for divorce are hovering around 32%, so you’ll be in good company. And now you know why.
Jane Six-Pack speaks.
And again: proof that there can’t be a god. No loving god would create a useless, fat turd of a toad like that.
Hopefully she’ll just keep praying through Nov 5th.
No need to vote if god will provide. And god obviously is pulling for McCain.
And By pulling for I mean he already knows who won being all omnipotent and timeless.
Seems like she might not need to vote or pray actually.
LL @ 63 wrote:
Shout! Shout! Shout out his name!
Goldstein!Obama!Goldstein!Obama!Goldstein!Obama!From #70:
her next boyfriend is an impotent dolt who would be an abuser if he wasn’t so easily cowed.
a.k.a., Joe the Plumber
Yeah. Barack Obama isn’t really Snoop Dogg or Louis Farrakhan tho’. I mean even ignorant white folks would realize that Barack Obama is closer to Uncle Tom than Kunta Kinte. Right?
God dammit! Now McCain is trying to upstage Obama on the “paling around with domestic terrorists” front as well? Can’t Obama have just this one thing?
They’re busy positively falsifying natural selection, simply by being.
to quote Dr. Evil:
I just threw up in my mouth.
MissyAnne Thrope #39 wrote:
No she’s not. That’s what’s frightening: she’s more like one of the popular kids whose confidence and simple black-and-white judgments place them firmly in the high-status clique, where they promptly start pointing out the “losers” and “dorks.”
That video was disturbing on several levels. Religions and their mindset often encourage people to blur their views about God with ‘God.’ I would guess that this woman would be very surprised to think that she’s coming off as arrogant. From her point of view, that’s like saying God is arrogant. She’s only an obedient child, humble before her Parent. How can an obedient child be arrogant?
Sure of herself? No. Sure of God.
moother #56 wrote:
Ok, I’m going to join Carlie and the rest of the rising chorus here in pointing out that this is just wrong. Although, statistically, there’s a small correlation between high religiosity and obesity in the US, the cause and effect relationship isn’t very clear — and of course statistical tendencies are only that.
The last thing we internet science nerds need to do is start sneering at people for being unpopular, unattractive, overweight, or otherwise odd. Not only is it unkind, but … well, it’s just not a wise thing to do, ok?
Little known translation of
Obama= Child of atheist mother and muslim father
Which is why his children don’t carry his last name.
That prompted the most vitriolic stream of invective to issue from my mouth all week (I usually protect myself better from being exposed to idiocy.)
Those of you who are hoping the whipped husband can escape before they have children: Too late for him, they’ve already spawned.
Dumb.
Cunt.
Another reason you should vote Obama: because nothing will be funnier on November 5th than watching this idiot of a woman going around the house, in tears, screaming about how we’re all doomed now that there’s a in office and how we turned our backs on God, and blah blah overreacting blah.
That will be the best thing ever.
Translation:
1) “Which one of them has the most Faith in the Lord?”
IE: Which of them most strongly shares the primary cultural marker I most consider important, and thus part of “my tribe”?
2) “I can’t imagine having a President of the United States being named President Obama.”
IE: His name also signifies “not my tribe”.
3) “Mother that was an atheist… father that was a Muslim.”
IE: Enemy of my tribe, and violent enemy of my tribe.
4) “The church they were members of? That’s not the Chrisitianity I know. That’s not the Christianity that’s in the Bible.”
IE: The are part of a tribe not like my tribe. The way my tribe sees things is the only way.
It makes sense from an anthropological standpoint (in my layman’s view).
More Kipling in the schools (specifically, “In the Neolithic Age”) might help with the last; I’m not sure about the others. Perhaps if pastors might be persuaded to emphasize that the “Good Samaritan” was about an outsider who was more good and moral than those within?
Er, I didn’t actually mention the actual slur, but in my previous post in between ‘a’ and ‘in office,’ I put ‘nasty racial slur’ instead of the offending and degrading word. Just FYI.
Wow, that was just painful to listen to. I’m glad I don’t have to talk to anyone this stupid on even an irregular basis.
The way she talks by wildly moving her eyes is pretty irritating to watch as well.
My mouth gaped… Seriously. I’m for neither side (And who cares? I’m canadian.). I don’t like Obama one bit. But I HATE that McCain guy.
But the way this woman talks about the poor obama guy… S’like he’s the frickin’ antichrist to her. What a BIGGOT.
Just like her god, mind you. God’s a biggot.
So, this woman’s church follows the Bible? Let’s see what the Bible says….
—
Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
—
So – it looks like she’ll vote the way her husband tells her to and make him a sandwich afterward.
I hope any attempts by her to reproduce fail.
@ Charlie “No, there really isn’t.”
well, count all the university professors in the world and run the statistics. you wouldn’t expect to count her among them and the correlations will be clear.
substitute doctor/lawyer/banker/hobo and run again with varying but still correlating results.
So these are the 2 outcomes; he votes for Obama and Obama wins. Muslim terrorists overrun the country and kill them both. She is raptured to heaven he is cast into the outer darkness where men shall weep and gnash their teeth. She votes for McCain, McCain wins. Husband loses his job. Manna rains down on their home from heaven to reward her faith and they never go hungry. Sounds like a win-win proposition for her.
Why do I need to hold her contempt based on her appearance? Her opinions and hatred are much more worthy of such. Sounds just like a trip back to northern OH, where the loss of jobs and relative poverty is all the blacks’ fault, those low-down no-good lazy bums (another term would be used, but I won’t use it).
She does remind one of the quote, “At fifty, everyone has the face they deserve.” Maybe she got hers a bit early?
It’s a grown up female version of Cartman. “Get me some cheesy poofs”
I got out of bed this morning, and asked Jesus what to wear
Then I asked if I should brush my teeth, and how to fix my hair
I asked my Lord and Savior if he’d rather ask of me
To have sugar in my coffee, or to skip it and drink tea
When I walk along, I ask the Lord which foot should step out first
Cos I know that Jesus doesn’t want my feet to be reversed
There’s no end to all the messages I hear my Jesus say
So I never have to think at all, so long as I can pray
While I try to love my neighbor, as the Bible says I must
I’m not sure about that black one, as the Lord and I discussed
Sure, he’s married, he’s got children, he’s a member of the church
But I’ve found he’s really Muslim, cos the Good Lord helped me search
Though it’s not in any papers–there’s no data you could chart–
I have all I need for evidence, right here inside my heart
It’s the Holy Word of Jesus, so I know it must be true
Not my fault that Jesus talks to me, but never talks to you
So the most important reason I am voting for McCain
Is he’s not a godless Muslim with the middle name Hussein
Now we’ve had a nice discussion, and I’ve really had some fun
But the interview is over now, cos Jesus says we’re done
http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2008/10/beats-thinking-for-yourself.html
A sobering thought: stupid people get to vote, too.
If that … person… wants “Christianity of the Bible” she must shut the f*ck up and do exactly as her husband commands her to do:
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1 Pet 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands
1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man
She shouldn’t even tell her husband how to experience his faith:
1 Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
In short… she’s clearly not a Real Christian™
I truly pity this woman, whose tiny and insular world has the power to elicit such smugness and fear. Any hint of the *other* is met with disgust and trepidation. Her thoughts are the muddled trainwreck of the unexamined life.
Pity too, her spouse and child.
Correct. However (and the embedded video is blocked on my work computer, so my comment is general, rather than aimed at this particular woman), it strikes me that being a stupid bigot often makes people ugly. It’s hard for a face spewing hatred to be pretty, no matter what shape its constituent parts are.
Re…
…I’ve recently read some reports from canvassers in the field that some respondents are telling them (in just these words) “we’re voting for the n*gger.”
Apparently, McCain-Palin’s FAIL is even stronger than bigotry!
Deepsix: Can someone advise me of the name of the clip so I can look it up on another site?
Survey says: Crazy Tracy – This is Why America is Broken – From “Now on PBS”
Carlie: No, there really isn’t [a correlation between stupidity, religion, obesity]
I don’t know about obesity; stupidity, the relation is a bit more subtle. I think there’s a fold catastrophe in the math. As intelligence increases, a belief in Scriptural Inerrancy becomes less likely, but the combination yields stronger opposition about alternative worldviews (and, I suspect, interpretations of Inerrancy) where it’s sustained. Without that, people tend to have fewer difficulties with science (EG: evolution) as intelligence increases, and need to be less intelligent to be anywhere near as god-bothered as the Inerrant.
Which suggests a more humble name for Dawkins’ “Brights”– the word “errant” conveys both the admission of possibility of error and the sense of exploration and pilgrimage. Scientist Errant?
Cappy: Jane six-pack speaks.
To make a cheap shot, looks more like she has a keg or a pony keg than a six pack.
Yuck! When people stay stuff like that, I sort of hope that they’re joking…sadly I’m sure this woman isn’t. :-(
I can see her deciding her husband voted for obama no matter what he ends up telling her.Nov is going to suck for him in general.
I hate to geek out on typos, but this one…
…is just too serendipitous, seeing that it refers to the white-sheet crowd! ;^)
I know I shouldn’t laugh at that
but I did.
You can’t fix stupid.
If the lord will take care of her, why does she bother to vote?
Digitalcuttlefish deserves a cabinet level position.
HidariMak,
Thanks. I’m going to borrow that!!
“‘If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.’
–Thomas Jefferson”
Far be it from me to step to a forefather, but I would beg to differ with TJ on a technicality. If the nation is ignorant, it won’t realize how not-free is is. Nevertheless, that does nothing to comfort those of us who have a higher respect and love for that which makes us human…
“The Lured will take care of us”
That’s not the Chris Chiannity that I know”
she talks funny
Southern WV, huh? I can’t watch it at work, but I’ll have to when I get home. I may know them.
@82
The problem is that he’s not a good little house negro and seems to actually have ideas. That scares people. Uncle Tom wasn’t the leader of the free world afterall. These people need a serious wake up call. I hate to say it, because I believe race (and gender for that matter) are completely irrelevant, but America needs a black president to shake things up a bit. Obama is far from perfect, but he doesn’t strike me as a slobbering idiot either. If he can set the tone for presidents to come, then I’m all for him.
That poor man.
I hope that someone has done a You Tube page of all the horrid people who have shamelessly expressed their bigotry and racism to the world during this election season.
Ok people. This is serious. I’m not American. I’m a Portuguese citizen. But I did live in America for 4 years, and I love the US (more than that hag Bachmann for example).
I fear for Obama. I really do. I never saw this much vitriol and anger by the part of the conservative right. I hope that nothing bad happens in the next months.
You guys need to be vigilant. This shit is going overboard!
The fact that so many people find it easier to attack someone based on appearance rather than to attempt to form a counter-argument is one of the reasons I tend to hold back from public debate. I know that to a large segment of the population my opinion is invalidated by my appearance. Obviously I have difficulty “defining… correct diet or self beautification regime” and such skills are evidently prerequisite to forming an educated opinion. Thank you for clearing that up. I better start going back to church with the rest of the ugly morons.
The sad truth is that there are a great many people living in the US who are just like her. Frightening that in 2008 we have such widespread ignorance.
Oh, and since when is John McCain some kind of religious role model. He doesn’t act like he’s anything other than a rather nasty secular. I don’t hear him spouting any god talk either.
hey, at least we’re less horrible than the Muslims [/sarcasm]
and I’m standing with those who say that say being fat and smart aren’t all that correlated. as much as I’d like to think that intelligent people can keep themselves at a healthy bodyweight, it seems this has more to do with the culture you’re living in than your personal intelligence.
and excercise and “fancy” food are more a city thing.. so is liberalism, it seems.
on the other hand, very few full-time farmers and ranchers around here that are obese… but they’re still religious as hell.
the woman in that clip is simply from that section of American culture that lives on church, fried food, and driving the truck to get the mail from the mailbox (yes, that’s hyperbole)
Oh, Lord. The atheist muslims are taking over. I’m going to pray really hard that a sniper bullet saves this country before Obama puts Osama in charge. Then I’m going to pray that the Darwinists catch the next bullet. Then I’m going to pray that Jesus gives me a brain, the lion some courage, and the Tin Man a heart.
Somewhere it is written …
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
Those who contradict this are the real un-Americans.
Someone should tell the husband that his wife will deny him sex if he votes for Obama.
Now how do you think that might affect his decision?
fatherdaddy (@122):
Not cool, dude. I’m assuming your comment was intended as sarcasm and parody, but even so… seriously not cool!
On the horrifying chance that that wasn’t intended sarcastically… well, where did I put that phone number for the Secret Service…?
I really feel for the woman – it seems clear (to me) she feels powerless and voiceless, and has many fears and insecurities. The traumatic divisions and hierarchical class setups in the US, less overt than in, say, Europe, perhaps have a big role to play in leading people into such emotion-driven clinging to perceived certainty.
I think she is hurting in big, big ways inside and projects that into such thinking – it must be awful for her.
Ricardo in #118
I have a handful of friends who are convinced that if/when Obama gets elected, there will be an assassination attempt by one of those crazies. They’re just hoping it won’t succeed (and are convinced that if it did succeed, it would spawn massive riots)
American woman, stay away from me
American woman, mama let me be
Don’t come here hanging around my door
I don’t want to see your face no more…
Jadehawk said (sarcastically)
Totally! The jury is still out on the ruinous potential of atheists, apparently, but *everyone* should worry about teh Muslims!!11!!
People, do me a favor. Imagine the words spoken by the woman above are instead said by this attractive young woman instead, and vice versa. Does the woman’s appearance matter at all?
America… F**k yeah!
I don’t think she’s all that bad an omen – we’ve had these people around for awhile (who voted for W in 04?). When they speak up, we know where they are, and what they stand for (or sit for). As long as they’re talking, they’re (mostly) not shooting. I don’t know whether it’s good or bad for people to stop using the code words and start spewing their hatred openly – the honesty might have been helpful once, but the combination with hatred and hatred’s normal preference for silence in a civilized culture would imply that we were no longer civilized, and that the people with the hate no longer felt any need to hide it (usually right before or after the guns come out).
I think that the problem is the lack of a common future. Lies in politics destroy people’s trust in the institutions, and their use is inherently destructive. People seem willing to swallow the lies or accept their use to get what they want, either aware or unaware that whatever replaces the open political arena will likely be either violent and ugly, or unfree and ugly. You lie when winning is all that matters, and the long term is irrelevant (because your ability to effect change in the long run is curtailed if people don’t believe you). We have given our country over to people destroying it for unknown reasons, and who have poisoned and trivialized discourse for all.
I have a handful of friends who are convinced that if/when Obama gets elected, there will be an assassination attempt by one of those crazies.
He was given a Secret Service detail earlier than any other candidate for that very reason, so it is a threat that they’re trying to stay on top of, at least.
“He knows what the right decision is”
Yeah divorce the stupid bitch.
The number of racists who have come out this year is pretty depressing. I think it speaks well of America, though, that Obama has such a landslide. Something like this could never have happened 40 years ago. Maybe I’m just hopelessly optimistic when I say to myself that these bigots aren’t common, just loud.
Am I the only one who caught this gem from BobC?
Why has nobody called him out on this? Criticism is one thing, but why do you look the other way at such blatant displays of hatred? Isn’t this a little hypocritical?
I can’t hear my tiny speakers over the background freezers, but I watched it anyway just to read body language. Her movements certainly do indicate comfortable smugness and an absolute sense of moral rectitude. However, I noticed some discomfort there as well. With the tossing of her head and shifting of her center of gravity, as well as the way she punctuated every sentence with a squinting grimace transforming into a smirk, I suspect that she was desperately trying to hold in a particularly deadly fart.
HidariMak: “For Tracy, this election is not so much about policies, as it is about values”. It’s funny how many people state that McCain is a better representative of family values.
See, you seem to think that these folks mean by “values” some kind of universal, rational values that we all agree on — what they mean is nothing more and nothing less than tribal loyalty (“Salvation by faith alone”).
You are good if you take their loyalty oath, even if you happen to be a serial killer, a rapist, a child-molester, or a genocidal maniac. On the other hand, the most decent, virtuous person who takes care of orphans, protects widows and lives austerely is worthless if they haven’t taken their oath.
These people are moral monsters. We should point it out: most are personally decent (like in any group), but they follow an ideology which is positively immoral.
No problem, Obama can get his name changed to Jesus.
…that was her problem right, his name?
(pounds sand)
That was fun…
I’m still amazed at the way the Republicans have managed to somehow put a lock on the “moral Christian people” ideal. To wit: the guy who has been a solid churchgoer for decades, who talks about his faith, who has been married to one person and has a beautiful, happy family with her, is not a good Christian. However, the guy who doesn’t attend any known church, avoids talking about faith, cheated on his first wife after she was injured in a car accident and then left her for the younger woman he had the affair with is the good Christian. Oooooo-kay.
@Jadehawk
“…that section of American culture that lives on church, fried food, and driving the truck to get the mail from the mailbox (yes, that’s hyperbole)”
Hyperbole? From my perch in the far north suburbs of Atlanta, it sounds frighteningly true-to-life. You would be amazed at the ‘creative’ driving techniques I’ve seen employed just so my neighbors won’t have to hoist their asses out of their SUVs to get the mail out of the damn mailbox.
I think her husband needs to put her to work until she realizes that it takes more than the sky fairy to take care of a family. I doubt that woman’s done a day of work in her life outside of their home. From her statements, it’s obvious that she’s never faced the possibility of losing a job that the family depended on to live. And what happens if he does lose his job and can’t get a new one? Would she blame him? Accuse him of not having enough faith in the sky fairy?
Get out now! while you still can!
@100: Excellent!
Bill @ 125: Heavy sarcasm, no pun intended.
From #134: blatant displays of hatred
Brandon, I stand by what I said: She looks like a Christian (fat, stupid looking face). She sounds like a Christian (insane stupid asshole).
Perhaps not all Christians are fat, but they are definitely stupid and they are definitely insane, unless you want to pretend believing in Jebus is normal.
One of my hobbies is looking at pictures of Christians on the internet. I’m talking about pictures of the author of some article I read. Virtually always the Christian has a fat stupid looking face. They look stupid because they are stupid.
I don’t hate Christians. I just consider them to be equal to cockroaches. I wouldn’t want a Christian in my home for the same reason I wouldn’t want a cockroach in here.
Ricardo and Carlie,
Yes, It is very scary. The USA has a sad history of assassinations.
And, there are many people around the world who foolishly think Obama is maybe a messiah and they may go nuts in addition to whatever happens in the USA.
We are not popular now; double contempt.
I sure wish prayer were useful.
Is it just me, or do so many of these fat, irrational bovine nonthinkers have eyes that are set about eight feet apart? Didn’t Bill Hicks or someone say something about how inbreeding causes that? I’ll do some research on this.
I also half-puke every time she does that smuggish half-smile brow-raise lip-tightening after she finishes every sentence… I love that expression, because it’s SUCH a clear sign of insecurity and fear. I want to feel less discriminatory about it, but honestly I have only ever seen Christians make that face.
YES! Wait… only as long as he doesn’t pronounce it “HAY-zoos”.
I think it’s a shame how many in here comment (negatively) on her appearance. It is irrelevant and it makes it so much easier for people who come here to dismiss us as just being asshats.
Isn’t her breathtaking stupidity enough for us to feast on? Come on, people.
Sometimes I can barely believe these people and I belong to the same species…I mean, her brain…cannot possibly process sensory input in the same manner mine does. I just have to wonder what the hell she’s seeing/hearing, even before I wonder what the hell she’s *thinking*.
Having said that, the fact that some posters here are even attempting to associate looks/obesity with intelligence is very disappointing.
Her words and the smug look on her face are far more unattractive than her physical characteristics.
In the words of Frank Zappa:
What’s the ugliest part of your body?
What’s the ugliest part of your body?
Some say your nose
Some say your toes
But I think it’s your mind
By Thor this was stunning. I don’t think I have ever seen anything that has come this close to turning me into a sociopath.
You could watch this with the sound off and still want to kill the crazy woman. Having the sound turned on is almost too much for the sane mind to bear.
I am going to need extensive therapy now.
I know this comment will get lost in the torrent, but I thought I’d bring this up:
I’ve lived in PA before, and it’s the most racist state I’ve lived in – casual racism from many of the people I worked with, and I was working with a nonprofit health organization.
So I was STAGGERED when PA preferred Obama to Hillary. Gave me hope. That hope hasn’t worn off yet.
Fatty fatty fatty! Too much cake!
That man must have the patience of a saint. Props to her for not “holding dominion over him”, though – that’s just not proper.
Could do with more spittle and bulging eyes, though.
(BTW: My previous comment, where I said you could watch without sound and still want to kill her was not because she is overweight, or ugly [even though she is] but was because of the crazy facial expressions.)
@ PZ: Why, yes of course she would be an ass if she was as good looking as our friend. Michelle Bachmann is not unattractive, neither is Sara Palin, for two poor examples. That does not mean I can’t see around my hap-penis to give them the metaphorical kick in the head they deserve
Wow, I didn’t know that some species of banana slug had hair. And blonde to boot.
Umm, that would applicable to Palin, who is actually very attractive physically. In the case of this
porcine mouthbreatherlittle confection, the icing is a perfect compliment for the cake underneath.Rush Limbaugh & Karl Rove would be the male counterparts in the looks match the ideology department and I reserve the right to call them ugly, fat, balding demagogues.
Like CollinB I am disturbed by the ad hominem attacks in this thread, attacks that only give catharsis and a smug sense of superiority to the writers. And if there is a correlation (note: not a causation) I’d appreciate any links with what atheists so commonly call for—evidence, proof.
Is there a significant difference between being a racist and being a christianist?
And, so there is no confusion, I am an atheist.
Well, if she’s hot you can always have sex with her once then ditch her…
…Oh wait. Christian. wedding sex only. Damn.
It just occurred to me that I would like to know if there is any correlation between those who, like this dumb cunt, are exceptionally intolerant of anything considered “other” to her and her food preferences, that is, whether she and those like her, prefer foods known to them over new and exotic foods. I wouldn’t be surprised to find that intolerance of the “other” were somehow hardcoded into the genes. No that this little experiment would be particularly illustrative, only it just got me thinking . . .
#153
I was so waiting for someone to post a video of that crazy bitch spouting “NOT A CHRISTIAN!!1!one” with reference to Obama, parodying the stupidity from Republican voters we’ve been seeing. :D
“That’s not the Christianity that’s in the Bible.”
Does anybody know of any Christianity in the Bible where women vote for stuff?
How about… does anybody know of any Christianity in the Bible where anybody votes for stuff?
Just wondering. I know they drew a lot of lots and threw a lot of dice and things like that. That, and they did a lot of “anointing” too. And “fasting”. Lots of “anointing” and “fasting”.
If I remember correctly, I think Jesus liked to really mess with the Scribes and Pharisees too. Man, he would really mess with their heads!
So, lots of anointing and fasting, and plenty of drawing lots and throwing dice, and messing with the Scribes and the Pharisees. Not a lot of voting going on though. Not that I can recall, anyway.
It’s quite interesting how if you give people a chance to indulge in the (probably not uniquely) human guilty pleasure of generally labeling people based on appearance (OMG she’s so fat and ugly!), by giving them a small justification (she’s also a dumb arse scary christian bitch, so it’s ok to call her fat) then they really take to it like a duck to water.
Witness that good old blue eyes/brown eyes game they play at primary school.
It just goes to show that we’re one step removed from an angry mob, pretty much all the time, and we always need to remind ourselves that we can do better, even though a lot of the time we don’t.
I still haven’t watched the video (I’m at work) so perhaps I would feel different if I had heard the vitriol spewing from her mouth, but even so, it’s pretty shocking.
Oh, and is Jenny McCarthy ugly?
Is Sarah Palin ugly?
What a crock…
In my own defense, my comment was predicated on the idea that whoever he would take up with would not only be diametrically opposed to her politically and intellectually, but also would make her insanely jealous in appearance.
That said, I must admit that in my case, at least, looks are somewhat irrelevant to the point I was getting across.
PZ:
I’m reserving judgement on Obama Girl until I see something from her that isn’t a performance piece. However, I’ve no doubt that women as attractive as her share sentiments as ugly as the disgusting human being in the video clip. Look at Brigitte Bardot — you don’t think she became the crotchety old fascist she is now overnight, do you? That kind of ugly probably started way before her hot years.
Does someone chose to be black?
What about Christian?
And I find the attacks on christians just for being christians ridiculous. It’s what some of them do with their religion that makes them loathsome not just the act of choosing to be christian.
Choosing to be christian is silly to me but if they keep to themselves with it I couldn’t care less.
And I will say that had this woman been unattractive and liberal, I likely wouldn’t have said anything at all about her appearance. I’m not claiming that as a defense, as I’m not sure whether it’s good, neutral, or bad.
I recently finished reading the new book, “Just How Stupid Are We?” about the American electorate, by Rick Shenkman (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Just+how+stupid+are+we). Mr. Shenkman doesn’t pull any punches. But after seeing this video, I think he should have punched even harder.
@#89:
Yes, it would, up until she — or someone like her — suddenly halts in the middle of their hissy fit, gives themselves over to that final, awful rationalization that turns zealots into true fanatics, and whispers into the empty room, “I must do something about this…”
This is why I truly, truly worry about the safety of Mr. Obama, especially if he becomes POTUS. There’s far too many people out there that have been whipped into a frenzy. I think she’s just the tip of the iceberg.
I am thinking, at this point, we should start gathering together a large group of volunteers, to help us surround Obama after the election. After seeing so many of these, not so closeted, bigots running around, I am pretty darn sure he has a target on his back.
I simply do not want to be talking ten years from now as to what, “Could have been,” but never was, due to a bullet from some drive-by redneck..
Carlie #138 wrote:
I prefer this way of deciding who is a “good” Christian vs who is a “bad” Christian: go by doctrine. Christianity is a set of beliefs. It’s not another word for being “moral” or “good.”
As atheists, I think it’s a bad idea to go along, even tacitly, with the cultural consensus that believing in God or believing in Jesus is the same as being a good person. The flip side of that of course is that those who behave badly are “acting like atheists.”
BobC #143 wrote:
Jesus F. Christ. Would you put a sock in it?
If I didn’t know you better, I’d think you were joking, and slyly mimicking what nasty, narrow-minded bigotry would look like if it came from atheists.
Another reason to vote for Obama, from Iowahawh:
Biden: Obama Ready for Armageddon Showdown He Will Provoke
SEATTLE — Democratic Vice Presidential candidate Joe Biden promised a group of supporters Sunday that running mate Barack Obama “will absolutely 100% trigger a nuclear Armageddon kinda thing” within the first 20 minutes of his presidency, but added that “Barack Obama is looking forward to this apocalyptic opportunity to test his mettle, because he totally aced his LSATs.”
“Mark my words,” Biden promised at the Seattle fundraiser Sunday. “There will be an international crisis. The world will be looking. They’ll say, hey, here is this handsome, clean, ar-ti-cu-late young president, not unlike a very, very tanned John Fitzgerald Kennedy, dancing at his inaugural ball with his beautiful wife who is not unlike a very very very extremely tanned Jackie. And our enemies will think, ‘ba ha ha, look at how thees seely new Amerikanski preseedent dances so! Such skeels can only be from many years in zee dancing school, where theys do not teaching the toughness! Launch zee meesiles!’ But these enemies are in for a big surprise. America’s foes must never confuse Barack Obama’s terrific dance floor moves with weakness — because as an Afro-American African, Barack is a natural dancer.”
“Listen, I can sit here all day and give you at least sixty or seventy scenarios from where it might originate,” Biden said. “Iran, Russia, definitely France. India is a possibility because they have sleeper cells in all the 7-11s, and the Koreans with all their toxic dry cleaning chemicals. I wouldn’t be surprised if Spain or Portugal started thinking, hey, ese, let’s do a driveby and recolonize the New World.”
“Make no mistake, it will be coming from all sides. Shpeew shpeew shpeew! buddda buddddaaa! Boossscchhhh,” said Biden, pantomiming gun battles and mushroom clouds. “And there, standing in the middle of it will be Barack Obama — cool, calm, clean, ar-ti-cu-late. And lemme tell ya, this guy smells fabulous. He’s ready to lay down the international law and take back the mean geopolitical streets from the jive turkeys, like Shaft. Yeah, baby, you remember Shaft. Wokka chicka, wokka chicka. Who’s the black dick who’s a sex machine with all the chicks? Barack! Yeah, that Barack is one bad mutha… shut yo mouth! Hey I’m just takin’ ’bout Barack. You can take that to the bank, sugar.”
“Let me warn these folks who are American enemies — don’t let appearances deceive you,” added Biden. “You might think, ‘hey this guy looks like Urkel, let’s steal his lunch money and give him a nuclear wedgie.’ But guess what? He is another JFK. And just like JFK, Barack Obama has lots and lots of mob connections, so if you get any funny ideas, Mr. Nuclear Bully, President Urkel is gonna get on the hotline to Francis Albert Sinatra, and then let’s see how you like losing you casino licenses and paving contracts.”
“Haaappy Birrrthday, Mister President,” purred Biden in a deft imitation of Marilyn Monroe.
“Now, that said, I want to easy your mind further,” said the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chaiman. “Right there along side Barack Obama, holding his hand through all these crises, will be me. Just like Bruce Lee, as Kato, faithfully serving the mysterious Black Hornet. Except for the mask and Chinese part. Ah so! No tickee, no shirtee! Obviously I’ve forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know, especially Barack Obama, so I’m not being falsely humble with you. No brag, just fact. I’ve been there. I’ve created and resolved more international incidents than the rest of the Senate combined, so you can be assured that when America’s enemies attack, I will bring my experience and 10th degree black belt in diplomatic chopsocky.”
“Ching chow pow!” added Biden, demonstrating his point with several pantomime karate chops. He also issued a pointed warning to the government of Spain.
“Let me be blunt: if you think we will sit idly by while you land your mighty galleons at Boca Raton, and unleash your gleaming-helmeted conqustadores to enslave and convert our whiny retired Jewish-Florida-Americans – well, think again, Cortes. Hey mang, say helloo to my leetle fren’!” said Biden, spraying the room with pantomime machine gun fire.
Biden also warned the audience that the first days of the Obama administration would bring some inevitable disappointments.
“I’m not going to lie to you – it doesn’t take a weatherman to know that hey, Mr. Tambourine Man, a hard rain is gonna fall, all along the watchtower,” said the Delaware Senator, strumming on a pantomime guitar. “There will be a point — maybe one week, maybe two weeks after the inauguration — when the opinion polls will look bad. Really horribly bad. Despite our best efforts, a couple of mid-size cities will inevitably be vaporized. People will be complaining. ‘Why are you nationalizing the Safeway?’ ‘When is Omaha going to stop glowing?’ ‘Why do the Chinese soldiers keep asking for my papers?’ When this happens, we will need you to keep supporting us because, trust me, you really won’t want to be observed not supporting us.”
“But I promise you, if one of these inevitable nuclear attacks is, God forbid, successful, Barack Obama and I will conduct tough and open negotiations with our new overlords,” said Biden. “Ol’ Joe Biden learned how to negotiate at his dad’s used car lot in Scranton PA, and if these overlords think they can swing some sort of lowball occupation deal, I’ll just tell them ‘I gotta go get my manager,’ and then… boo-yeah! In comes Barack Obama to upsell them undercoating and extra exercise yard privileges for you and me.”
After rubbing tapioca into his armpits and singing what appeared to be the Numa-Numa song, Biden mounted a Segway and crashed through a side door.
A spokesman for the Obama-Biden campaign later clarified the Senator’s remarks, and urged reporters “not to take Senator Biden’s words out of context.”
When asked what context that was, the spokesman explained that “the Senator has massive brain damage.”
I am personally offended by the fat comments. I am fat – very fat. Fat doesn’t make you ugly – ugly makes you ugly. I’m one Hot Mama!;-)
Kiss my big fat butt you fat haters! :-)
Everyone else – come on over and party with me! I think that whacko might be my neighbor – we could drive her nuts!
The day I feared has come, apparently: Eric Atkinson and Scott from Oregon have interbred.
Run while you still can.
Would you believe “Iowahawk?”
As much as I am aghast at the idiocy of some of my fellow earth inhabitants, I realize we on the left have bought into a fantasy as much as this deluded fool has.
We’ve had a contingent of ‘lost souls’ in the population since the dawn of time- the homeless, the indigent, those who leech off of others- and their close counterparts, those who can be tricked into thinking they’re going to get something for nothing. Or, as I have come to think of them- the passively ignorant and the actively ignorant: those who just don’t know yet (and may not be able to), and those who consciously decide not to find out.
Some people move onward and escape this group and some live their entire lives there.
The magical future (ala Star Trek the Next Generation), where everyone on Earth gets along and is well educated and well behaved is a warm fuzzy myth that we pretend might be a reality someday.
It won’t.
We’re stuck with the idiots ad aeternum, and the idiots are stuck with us.
No, it’s not right to make fun of her because of her appearance. But I maintain that anyone who didn’t laugh at the Jabba-speak of comment #19 has had a humorectomy at some point in the past.
Have a Donut Hap. A big cream filled one.
She deserves the Fuck-Wit of the Month Award
“Posted by: Matt7895 | October 21, 2008 4:30 PM Fatty fatty fatty! Too much cake!”
Oh that is so wrong.
They don’t call it a pie-hole for nothing!
“Fatty fatty fat fat! Too much PIE!”
S.Scott – here’s what you say to someone making weight comments (which I have done at times, too): “I could always lose weight. Can you lose ugly?” ;-)
This video is so depressing, perhaps I can be permitted to go a bit off-topic and share some good news. I just ran across this encouraging quote from the ever-inspiring Rev. Don Wildmon:
Just think: if we win this election, we win forever. How cool is that?
Good gawd! Thanks for the warning Hap. How deep do you think the shit is going get?
Let’s take care not to continue the display of ignorance by equally generalizing this audience and its posters by way of assigning a minority of comments to the overall tone of the discussion.
That said… seriously… fat jokes? You can do better than that, people…
Poor woman, she looks like she ate all her sins.
The last thing we internet science nerds need to do is start sneering at people for being unpopular, unattractive, overweight, or otherwise odd. Not only is it unkind, but … well, it’s just not a wise thing to do, ok?
And yet there is so much of it here; the misogyny is particularly thick. The people here who engage in this stereotyping are no less disgusting in their own way than the subject of the thread — something that, in their immense arrogance, they can’t conceive of.
Why the hell CAN’T I laugh at someone who’s greed has put them into this state?
Her obesity is her fault. It’s not as if she has cancer, or some other disease that she can’t help. She’s a fatass because she eats too much.
I don’t have any sympathy for fat people, any more than I have sympathy for smokers.
This country that we love, founded on Judeo-Christian values, will cease to exist and will be replaced by a secular state hostile to Christianity. This “city set on a hill” which our forefathers founded, will go dark.
I will never fully understand why so many American Christians are so afraid of a secular state. Apart from anything else, a secular state is, to my mind, actually the best environment for a genuine and sincere religious believer. If the state makes public policy decisions based on religious principles, and tells you what to believe and how to behave, then you are deprived of your free will; and, in the absence of free will, where is the moral virtue in simple obedience to the diktat of the state? I think it is worth noting that while the established state churches of many European countries, including my own, have become passive to the point of irrelevance, active religious belief has thrived in the United States – precisely because of the separation of church and state. Human beings are autonomous individuals; and all merit the chance to make their own choices about God, faith, worship and morals.
The Founding Fathers, of course, seem to have understood this – as did American conservatives just a generation ago. When Reagan spoke of the “shining city upon a hill”, he was not referring to America as some sort of theocratic ‘paradise’ where virtue is determined and imposed by state officials. Rather, he was referring to America as a bulwark of individual liberty and free choice, compared to the evils of statism and dictatorship which flourished, at the time, in much of the world. Reagan was, of course, a man of strong faith. But he understood the value of freedom and free choice.
It seems to me that the society envisioned by some of these religious activists would more resemble Afghanistan under the Taliban, or modern-day Iran, than the society envisioned by the great philosophers of freedom. But a free society is the only moral society; for it is the only one in which individuals have a free choice between good and evil.
Why the hell CAN’T I laugh at someone who’s greed has put them into this state?
I laugh at you for being so stupid and ignorant as to think that overweight = greedy.
@186 – Hey Matt 7895, How the fuck do you know? Are you her doctor? Are you the “all knowing”? Or are you as big of a bigot as she is?
“Not the Christianity of the Bible”?
Hmm… granted there’s plenty of cultural and racial intolerance in the Old Testament but I seem to recall that Jesus guy mentioning something about “whited sepulchures” and Samaritans being my metaphorical neighbors…
@Eric
Another reason to vote for Obama [clip humorless drivel]
he’s 8 points up.
I see a light at the end of a long, dark tunnel.
Oh, I don’t think he’s “as big” of a bigot as she is.
Haha. Pun.
Seriously though, attacking personal appearances has always seemed so utterly pointless to me. I mean, does this mean I can laugh at Stephen Hawking and call him an ignorant fool? Hardly.
What matters is what they say and she has said more than enough to solidify her position as a horrible, evil, racist, bigoted, pathetic excuse for a human being.
#182: I have no idea. My shovel’s at home, though.
You probably want to avoid the donuts, too, while you’re at it. I don’t know what’s in them, and I’m not certain I want to know. If it has anything to do with EA’s line of work, I’d just as soon let them be.
You probably want to avoid the donuts, too, while you’re at it. I don’t know what’s in them, and I’m not certain I want to know. If it has anything to do with EA’s line of work, I’d just as soon let them be.
Hap the Donuts are fine. Talecris dosen’t make donuts.
These came from Dunkin.
A bit high in fat, however.
Second time I’m posting this OT, my best friend is on his deathbed (the doctors seem to be assholes and not letting him die). How do I admit my atheism to his mother in her grief at the loss of her son? From my screen name, I admit to being ignorant. Now, how do I tell her her son has ended, he is no more, he is an ex son, and not multiply her grief. Please, you more enlightened atheists, tell me how do I console my best friend’s christian mother. (btw, he is only 44 years old). Call me a troll if you will. This is a serious question. Anyone who was around last time I posted a blog entry that turned into a discussion will realize I am not a troll. I admit to being full of contradictions, but I need to know how to console the mother of my best friend
S.Scott, we can party together, because I was just about to say that this fat female atheist college professor is entirely bored and annoyed with all the juvenile commenters who don’t know how to insult someone properly beyond “durr, fat!”
Call me a troll if you will.
Indeed you’re a troll; many people already answered you in the other thread that you disrupted with this BS.
@ 195
How about “I’m terribly sorry for your loss”?
Idk, I think that pretty much covers it. I doubt she’ll be interested in your existential dilemmas at this point.
#194: Sorry, then. I prefer Krispy Kreme, but I ate Dunkin Donuts whenever my dad brought them home. There are some other local brands that are good, as well. Cream-filled is not usually my choice, though.
As long as I don’t spew racist code words and political invective (well, at least the first), I don’t think I’ll be confused with the title woman, even with my consumption habits.
Walton: When Reagan spoke of the “shining city upon a hill”, he was not referring to America as some sort of theocratic ‘paradise’ where virtue is determined and imposed by state officials. Rather, he was referring to America as a bulwark of individual liberty and free choice, compared to the evils of statism and dictatorship which flourished, at the time, in much of the world. Reagan was, of course, a man of strong faith.
How much bullshit can you emit in one paragraph? Reagan was precisely referring to a theocratic state, while maintaining plausible deniability. He may not have actually meant it, but only wanted the support of the theocrats — but he brought them into the fold, and promised them with a little double-speak an opportunity for power.
Do you also think that opening his campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi was just coincidentally at a place famed for it’s racism and execution of civil rights workers? And that he then threw out the words “states’ rights” without knowing that most in his audience would read that as implicit support for racist policies?
Are you that ignorant of American politics?
Yup, he was a man of strong faith — if you mean by that the Christian concept of loyalty to his tribe, and the use of the word “liberty” disingenuously (Liberty for me, but not for thee).
It’s like you’re a little robot repeating the Party Line over and over again.
Ignorant Atheist at #195 posted:
I need to know how to console the mother of my best friend
My suggestion: “I am deeply, profoundly aggrieved by this loss, and cannot imagine the depth of your own sadness. In this time of mourning I offer my condolences and my support. Please let me know if there is anything I can do. I continue to reflect on the joy I had knowing your son.”
Otherwise, Ignorant Atheist, I think you are asking your question from a false premise: that you must somehow reinforce to the Christian mother that there is no actual heaven or god or spiritual realm in which her son now somehow resides beyond time and the universe. As I see it, you don’t need to mention those things at all. Simply tell her how sorry you are for the loss, and offer to help if she needs it.
That last part is key, I think. In my experience, actions sometimes speak louder than words. It would say much to her that you took her car to get the oil changed or offered to mow the lawn or temporarily take over some other duty that she must normally keep up with while her mind is clearly going to be on other things.
Hope that helps.
No kings,
Robert
Come on over Carlie! :-)
At 197, you sir are an asshole.
At 198, thank you for a considerate response, that was, in my ignorance, the obvious answer I was looking for.
I can’t be the first to think of this, but, European countries have state churchs and little religion to fill them. The U.S. has no state church and is overflowing with religion. If we want to get rid of religion we must stand up for a state church for us. Let this stand as the call for atheism in America by bringing religion into the government. Now, we must choose a church. It can’t be reletively ridiculous, like Scientology, or relatively inoccuous, like Unitarian Universalism. It’s got to be just “normal” enough that nobody gives a shit enough to care.
Ignorant Atheist, you’re confused. Salt is a fundament, not Truth Machine, he’s a sling blader.
#195:
Tell your friends mother that she is”a fluke of the universe. She has no right to be here. And whether or not she can hear it, the universe is laughing behind her back.”
Tell her “to make peace with her God, whatever she conceives
him to be..Hairy Thunderer or Cosmic Muffin.”
Tell her that “With all its hopes, dreams,promises, and urban renewal, the world continues to deteriorate.”
Tell her to”Give up.”
Ripped of from the Deteriorata.
1972
I’m fat…and kinda ugly…but she is still a fat, stupid, POS.
Matt 7895 @ 186,
How the hell do you know anything at all about this woman’s health, or about what she can or can’t help?
You needed some stranger on a blog to tell you that “I’m terribly sorry for your loss” is the right thing to say to a bereaved person?
Yeah, right.
You’re not just a garden variety troll; you’re a Poe. Begone!
Ignorant Atheist
Emphasize the word REST. Just use it in as many different ways as you can. My thoughts go to you and his family for his rest and yours.
@201
Thank you sir or madam.
You have given me the most logical response to my dilemma. I thank you.
Wow, that woman is whacked. It’s… it’s like she’s suffering from some sort of organic brain dementia. Seriously. That’s a defective person. H…. I don’t even understand, how you could be capable of functioning as an adult in human society…. when, when the only viable course of action appears to you, always and in every situation, to offload your thinking about it. I can only seriously imagine that she must be the most profound, Orwellian hypocrite.
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
At 197, you sir are an asshole.
What ever I am doesn’t change the fact that you’re a troll, and a rather dim one.
“Please, you more enlightened atheists, tell me how do I console my best friend’s christian mother.”
Easy, lie your ass off and tell her what she wants to hear.
That’s what I did with Grandma when dad died…anything else would have sent her into “insane Xtian” mode.
AHHH!! That is frightening!
I’m fat…and kinda ugly…but she is still a fat, stupid, POS.
Her BMI is irrelevant.
I first saw this thread in a browser missing plugins, so I didn’t even see the woman’s picture; from the comments I was expecting someone morbidly obese, but she’s not even close.
I have close friends who are obese, some morbidly obese. They are all intelligent, liberal, and not at all “greedy”. But most of the women among them have something in common: they were sexually abused.
I think he’s more like 6 points up :
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/todays-polls-1020.html
But I have a question :
let’s say he stays with that 6 points lead until the election, and, come the election, big surprise, Obama loses. The GOP will say that’s what they had predicted, the polls are always wrong, the Bradley effect, etc…
What happens with the USA ? Will it be safe over there ?
NB : read dubiquiabs’ comment #55 before answering !
Well, I have learned not to admit to being ignorant on a blog. I was happy that I got a couple of serious answers, but the insults overshadow the serious responses. I will remember not to attempt a serious discussion on a blog again. For those who realized I was looking for serious answers to serious dilemmas, I thank you. For those who thought I was just trolling, fuck you.
Yours,
the ignorant atheist
why is it that if a woman gets called fat, it’s misogynist, but calling… oh, say… Rush Limbaugh a “big, fat, idiot”, it’s not sexism at all?
a bit of perspective, please. not every insult hurled at a woman is misogynist. only insults hurled at them BECAUSE they are women are misogynist. the rest is just plain old cruel.
Figuratively speaking:
Jesus. F’ing. Christ.
Though I’m worried about Obama’s views on the economy, I’m much more concerned with the party of “Real Americans” getting another four years. So even though voting is pretty much pointless, I made sure to get my vote in early.
I don’t trust national polls, but I do trust betting markets. Thankfully, Intrade.com has Obama’s chances of winning at 84% or so. I am encouraged and confident that he’ll win.
I spent a portion of my vacation last week in Dallas visiting a friend I hadn’t seen in a few years. He’s married to the most racist, xenophobic person I’ve ever met. She wants to move out of their house in Plano because “all the white people are moving out” and “the Indians & Chinese are taking over”. I would’ve asked her what was wrong with a diverse neighborhood, but I had already packed my bags and just wanted to get the hell out of there. Overall, I had a good time, but my friend’s wife was racist to the core. It was scary.
why is it that if a woman gets called fat, it’s misogynist, but calling… oh, say… Rush Limbaugh a “big, fat, idiot”, it’s not sexism at all?
Who the fuck said that calling her fat is misognist? But caling her a “dumb cunt” and a “bitch” and a “hag” is.
While getting fat CAN be tied to individual irresponsibility with respect to pushing oneself away from the dinner table, sometimes under periods of prolonged unrelieved stress, one can pack on the pounds without ever having changed eating habits that formerly resulted in a perfectly normal body. That’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it. Watching someone die by millimeters tends to do that.
That said, the bimbo’s ugliness is revealed mostly by what came out of her mouth. The fat is collateral damage.
During my more masochistic moments, I wonder whether we really deserve an honest, well intentioned president like Obama. Perhaps we need another idiot fuck-up so we can be put in our place in world history. Every empire tumbles, and we’re at the precipice of such a fall. What we really need is a reality check like those innocent people in Iraq and Africa. We need leader’s who will go above and beyond the call of torturing and imprisoning dissenters. We need authoritarian rulers who base this great nation on theocracy alone and determine exactly how and in what capacity their given god(s) dictate their rule and control over our ignorant selves. We need the iron fist of religion and authority.
Seriously though, those assholes who voted Bush in a second term, now crying about their lost incomes and shredded portfolios are the ones to blame. I have no sympathy for those brainless morons who voted to extend these idiotic Bush policies all based on their personal fears of a bigger world. They lock themselves up in their homes, close their eyes to the world, and think that they make this nation great. Well, you fucking ingrates, you deserve the losses you get. For all of us who happened to think critically, and now suffer economic hardships, we must be ever more vigilant in fighting these ignorant morons. How much more could the administration have fucked up for the remaining 35% who still support it to have shifted their support? What more could Bush and Co. have done to peel those asshole 35% off their island of ignorance? I mean they could have gone killing every 3rd infant they found, or kicked every dog that happened to look at them funny.
In essence, we have reached a point where we see how a truly ignorant society can really impact our lives. The worst of it is they would love to continue spreading this wave of ignorance until every single person is as stupid as they are. Well, maybe we do need a true crash. Key the Huns and Visigoths.
I will remember not to attempt a serious discussion on a blog again.
What you shold learn, asshole, is that hijacking a thread for your own personal issues is trolling. And it’s all the worse when, the first time you did it, you didn’t even read any of the responses, and then just repeated your stupid act in another thread. It takes a truly self-centered cretin to thereby dismiss the possibility of any “serious discussion on a blog”.
Please guys, don’t be fooled! This is obviously a fake! Just check how false that stupid hairpiece looks, which they put on the pig.
Well, perhaps the references to misogyny had to do with comments #45, 88, 160,…?
Man, go away for a few days and return to this. Whatever this woman’s appearance, this is one ugly thread. (And I will go on record as saying that I’ve seen deterioration in BobC’s comments over the past several weeks, from an already chilling starting point. I sincerely believe BobC needs psychiatric help.)
Anyway, this bigot has competition for the title of the most annoying, self-righteous ass in the US. I say this because I happened to catch Bellarmine-wannabe Billy Valentine of Catholics for McCain on EWTN’s “Life on the Rock” the other night (just after watching the Red Sox lose, on top of everything). A smugger, more obnoxious compulsive lip-licker you’re not likely to find.
http://catholics4mccain.org/
I haven’t been able to locate any video of him online, though I suspect Walton’d find him quite appealing.
Hey,
Those eyes; if that is not the epitome of evil I do not know what is. Those “I could kill you without hesitation” eyes.
All I could picture was her a few hundred years ago screaming at some poor and innocent victim tied to a stake, about to get burned.
Those eyes say it all; The ‘Devil Incarnate’, if you ever wanted and example of that type of absurdity.
Otherwise it matters not what the rest of her looks like.
I can handle any horror film out there without flinching. This monster of a human made me flinch. (That is not monster in the physical sense of course.)
Captain Kendrick wrote:
Please, before you give out the Fuck-Wit of the Month Award, do consider some other contestants.
For example, those trying to block African witchcraft curses being used against McCain:
http://www.injesus.com/index.php?module=message&task=view&MID=CB007FA2&GroupID=2A004N9G&label=&paging=all
Ask yourself, does this one deserve it more than Rep. Michele “Anti-American” Bachmann?
I meant cue the Huns and Visigoths
Ewwww, look, he said a naughty word. That’s sure fill the fainting couch.
OK. I didn’t read or respond to my last post on this topic. I was drunk. I was waiting to hear when my best friend died. He is still alive. The doctors are being assholes and not letting him die. You, motherfucker, have no empathy. I am not trolling. I am seriously looking for answers to philosophical questions. This is the venue I have found best for these questions. P.Z., if you say I am a troll, than I am a troll and will shut up.
Yours,
the ignorant atheist
Hey again,
I haven’t had time to peruse all of the comment on this thread. Just want to express my concern on the next potential assassination.
I understand that GWB had the most security of any president to date. I suspect if BHO gets into office there may be some additions to the presidential security force.
I would hope the screening process for new and existing members is more than adequate?
FYI, I never really cared about US politics until 2K. So much of the turmoil in your country seems orchestrated. Fortunately I have the majority of the sane people in the northern states betwixt me and your southern states.
I expect an influx of new Canadians if BHO gets his victory stolen by you know who.
In the immortal words of Mick Jagger; “Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name. But what’s puzzling you is the nature of my game”
No sympathy here though, and no devil, but you get my drift :)
I was surprised the Red Sox got as far as they did – it was nice to see them show up in Games 5 and 6. I think though getting rid of Manny was good for the team, they don’t hit as well without him, and without a fully functional Beckett, it was going to be difficult for them. My condolences. At least next year, when the Red Sox and Rays get into it, the fights will actually mean something.
I think maybe people like to associate readily available measures (like looks) with not-so-readily available measures (like character). When someone like this vomits hate all over the screen, people look for evidence that the easy connection between looks and character is correct, or the hate gives people an excuse to frag her for her looks. It’s kind of like the McCain contortion thread – there are lots of good reasons to dislike certain people, but their looks are rarely one of them. Visceral hate tends not to inspire the best in people.
why is it that if a woman gets called fat, it’s misogynist, but calling… oh, say… Rush Limbaugh a “big, fat, idiot”, it’s not sexism at all?
Who said that calling him a big fat idiot was ok? Probably none of the people calling out the fat comments for being the stupid bigotry they are. Interesting how it’s always overlooked when feminists defend men against slurs too. But as TM said, it’s more the other female-specific terms that are sexist, try to keep up. Also, a quick grammar lesson:
“big, fat, idiot” means something entirely different than “big fat idiot”. The first makes reference to both his size and intellectual abilities; the second states that his idiocy itself is large.
Why the hell do people feel the need to refer to him as BHO?
GWB I understand. He ran on “W”.
Good Cthulhu you are stupid. You don’t. There is a time and place for everything. You don’t have to wait for your friend to die and then tell his mother you are an atheist, a puppy killer, hate the color green, and then try to sell her some Amway products.
After someone dies, nobody really expects eloquent expressions of grief and loss. It is generally taken for granted that that is the case.
’cause BO just doesn’t work
Actually, I have never heard him referred to as any acronym. Interesting that is a bone of contention though.
That was the first time I used either as an acronym. I wanted to use something punny but was too lazy to fire the extra few neurons. :)
you know who wrote:
You should never have waited for that moment. If you haven’t done it before, why now?
If you really have some problem with death. then go elsewhere rather than takes this thread off-topic:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9666.htm
@240
Did you miss my signature? I am ignorant!!!1! I do not know these resources. That’s why I post my questions here, to get answers.
IA,
When someone dies at a young age (or any age, for that matter), the thing to do is offer your support and compassion to his survivors, ask if there’s anything you can do to help them cope with the situation, and so forth. This isn’t the time for philosophical discussions, and it’s certainly not the time for arguments.
If you want to comfort someone who’s suffering from a loss, then talk about your best memories of the deceased, and how lucky you are to have known them.
-jcr
Well actually Tracey (the interviewee) was correct when she said that the Lord will provide, because He obviously did (plenty of high calorie food, going on her obviously high body mass index). Pity He didn’t also provide an exercise bike for her to use too. TAPSx2 (twice as thick as pig shit). I suppose I shouldn’t laugh at her weight; Australia is second to America on the obesity index.
Good Cthulhu you are stupid.
Raven,
He’s losing a friend. Is this really the time to jump down the guy’s throat?
-jcr
Why do you need to say that at all? That’s what I don’t get, you don’t have to justify your beliefs (or lack thereof) to her or to anyone. You don’t need to push your view of the world on her. If she asks, be honest about what you feel. If you know it’s going to hurt her to hear it, then you have an ethical dilemma between lying and being comforting.
Just ask yourself why you feel you need to push your beliefs on your friends mother?
Well it’s less the acronym and more the H in the bHo.
No one ever mentions McCain’s middle name. It’s been played out by the hate mongering parts of the right wing.
I’m not accusing you of that, just find it interesting the success that they have had promoting his scariness because his middle name is Hussein.
Carile #138,
There was a far better example of a man who upholds christian ideals (including the biblical admonition not to make a big public show of one’s beliefs), and he was marginalized by the business-as-usual leadership of the Republican party.
-jcr
It’s been a nice discussion, I am now bombed, so good night Gracy. I hope my best friend passes peacefully b4 the doctors make too much profit.
I’m seeing this over and over again with conservatives – they’re uncomfortable with Senator Obama’s race, but it’s not acceptable to talk about that in public, so they use these kinds of issues as a proxy for their racism – issues like his background, or that he’s not religious enough (which is lunacy, considering what an indifferent churchgoer McCain is.) The point is, they’re not thinking logically; their righteous, racist rage is blinding them and driving them crazy. Since they can’t explain their rage to themselves and come to terms with their intolerance, they attribute it to sky fairyism.
Also, a quick grammar lesson:
“big, fat, idiot” means something entirely different than “big fat idiot”. The first makes reference to both his size and intellectual abilities; the second states that his idiocy itself is large.
That’s a good try but truthfully only “big fat idiocy” would refer to his idiocy; by the rules of grammar, in “big fat idiot”, “big” and “fat” are both properties of the idiot himself. Adding commas doesn’t change the semantics, only the emphasis, putting “big” and “fat” on the same footing as “idiot”.
Back to the substance: calling a woman fat is not per se misogynist or sexist, but when it’s part of a general tenor of lookism that is applied to women in a way not applied to men, it is. Bringing up the singular example of Limbaugh doen’t cut it — that description of Limbaugh is a form of satire, a reflection of his own ad hominem-laden rhetoric.
I live in a suburb of Seattle and I can tell you that I have a few neighbors like her.
I won’t weigh in on the ‘she’s a tub’ issue, but I did note that she is in the habit, after emitting a verbal photon of idiocy, of chomping her mouth and nodding her head, as if the physical act of nodding added evidence to her claim.
Repulsive is the right word. So far as my neighbors are concerned, we don’t have much to say to each other, but I notice when they stroll by how they shake their head in anger at our “Obama ’08” sign.
By the way, did anyone else notice that this woman is not even right on her own terms? Since when is McCain more of a Christian than Obama?
Listening to this ignoramas, who had no reasons for her arguments beyond idiotic facial expresions and shakes of her head, makes me shudder. I know too many much like her. But, one good thing: most of the cretins I hnow are too stupid to register to vote.
i didn’t say it’s not cruel (and besides the point) to call people on their appearance, only that it’s not sexist. (and yes, a lot of people find it ok to call Limbaugh on his fatness and ugliness)
as for the other gender related slurs… wouldn’t that mean we shouldn’t use ANY curse words associated with gender? so no “pussies”, “cunts”, but also no “dicks” (there’s a dickipedia, but no cuntipedia, I notice…), no references to “balls”, etc…
it just seems that human anatomy and its excretions are a major source of English-language insults, including non-gendered ones (shithead, ass and asshole, for example).
oh, and I guess we’d have to forbid the use of the word “Hysteria” too, while at it.
I just don’t think every use of a gendered word as an insult is sexist. some are (there’s some nasty sexism on Sarah Palin’s “whoring herself out” in some other thread), but not all. They’re all low-brow insults though. We can file that under “coarsening of language”, or “internet-rudeness”, or “general human tendencies to be insulting” or some-such.
“You’re an idiot.”
“No, you’re not just an idiot, you’re a big idiot.”
Are you saying that in the second sentence, the emphasis of description has shifted from describing how big of an idiot the person is to the size of the person??
Otherwise, this:Back to the substance: calling a woman fat is not per se misogynist or sexist, but when it’s part of a general tenor of lookism that is applied to women in a way not applied to men, it is.
Absolutely. It would be difficult to state it more succinctly and understandably.
Wow. Mean, ignorant, subliterate, AND fundamentally stupid enough to drop his employer’s name into the thread as well.
In the competition to be Pharyngula’s dumbest troll, Eric just lapped Scott from Oregon. Can SfO make a comeback now? Stay tuned…
I just don’t think every use of a gendered word as an insult is sexist.
Sigh. Which ones aren’t, then, and why not? The fact that they do refer to one gender as an insult is the textbook definition of sexism. You are bad because you are or have qualities of that gender. If you don’t think that you’re referring to that gender as being bad, then it’s not an insult, is it?
Well it’s less the acronym and more the H in the bHo.
Even on liberal sites like DailyKos he’s often referred to as BHO — it’s a short, clearly identifying, string, and analogous to HRC.
Are you saying that in the second sentence, the emphasis of description has shifted from describing how big of an idiot the person is to the size of the person??
Good challenge, Carlie. No, I grant you that “big” refers to idiocy there. It might even in “fat big idiot”. But idiocy isn’t fat, while Rush Limbaugh is. But I’ll go so far as to grant that “big fat idiot” is a pun, referring to both Rush’s size and the size of his idiocy.
carlie, but that’s what i’m trying to explain… is saying “you’re a dick” implying that dicks are inherently bad? or that man are bad because they have dicks?
same way i’d say calling someone a “cunt” doesn’t always imply having a cunt per-se being something bad
on the other hand, the words hysteria (originally, anyway) and pussy (i thought about it, and there probably isn’t a way to use that word in a way that doesn’t imply gendered weakness) are designed to to say “you’re weak and histrionic because you’re (like a) woman”.
also, i don’t know if english has a male equivalent of “hag” (“pervy old man” is the closest i can come up with), but other languages do. i’d take it primarily as an insult to age and looks, if it weren’t for the fact that Coulter has been repeatedly called a hag…
Ignorant Atheist, you ass.
i didn’t say it’s not cruel (and besides the point) to call people on their appearance, only that it’s not sexist.
Non sequitur. You took my reference to misogyny to be about calling a woman fat; it wasn’t, at least not in isolation. But if the appearance of one gender is routinely commented on while the other is not, …
As for “I just don’t think every use of a gendered word as an insult is sexist.” — care to apply that to ethnic terms used as insults as well? All these terms, even “dick”, carry with them a hostility toward the gender or ethnicity. In all of my many “coarse” posts, I have never used any of these insults; I only use neutral words like “shithead”, “stupid fuck”, “asshole”.
Don’t forget “stupid fucking hypocrite.” ;)
(PS: Will write ASAP.)
Posted by: Ignorant Atheist @ 195 “… tell me how do I console my best friend’s christian mother…”
You give her all the hugs she needs and let her cry on your shoulder while you tell her you share her pain and you will miss him. Then later when all the first fuss is over, you could ask how you can help.
Rev BDC #247
Ah, well there you go. I never had a problem with his middle name. Obviously I lack a certain perspective :p
And my friends wonder why I’m only cautiously optimistic about Barack’s chances…this woman and her ilk scare the living hell out of me. I know there are more of them, because I’ve met them, or at least know where to find them if I ever want to be tarred, feathered, and run out of town on a rail for questioning their beliefs.
Between them and the cheating bastards in the RNC, I’m starting to really worry about this election.
is saying “you’re a dick” implying that dicks are inherently bad?
Yes.
same way i’d say calling someone a “cunt” doesn’t always imply having a cunt per-se being something bad
Then why is it an insult?
also, i don’t know if english has a male equivalent of “hag” (“pervy old man” is the closest i can come up with)
Since when does “hag” have a connotation of perversion? The dictionary says “old woman considered ugly or frightful”.
but other languages do
Such as?
i’d take it primarily as an insult to age and looks
As applied to women. Sheesh.
Don’t forget “stupid fucking hypocrite.” ;)
How can I forget if you keep reminding me? :-) At least it’s not in your sig line any more.
(PS: Will write ASAP.)
You’re such a tease! (Is that sexist?)
truth machine, maybe i put the emphasis on “fat” where there wasn’t any. but i just don’t see any misogynism in calling someone on their looks.
maybe i’m just surrounded by too many people who use the same standards of lookism (?) for both genders, that it simply strikes me more as being superficial than sexist.
I’m a tease.
German has the word “Greis” which refers to an old, senile man specifically.
Polish has the word “dziad” which means an old and malicious man
i just don’t see any misogynism in calling someone on their looks
Again non sequitur. I referred to a biased pattern, not to calling people on their looks per se. It’s a different matter that you don’t see the pattern, but that suggests a state of denial about a widely observed and discussed fact.
A more basic point of denial here is in regard to the utter irrelevancy of gender or looks to the topic — it’s what she said, not how far apart her eyes are, etc., that matters.
oh, and i didn’t mean to say that “hag” had a connotation of perversion, I just couldn’t think of any term that insults old men in English.
and if it makes you happy, i’ll concede sheltered upbringing in a virtually matriarchal family, and otherwise apparently only meeting people who aren’t that selective about being superficial.
well, excepting lately here in North Dakota, which tells me more about North Dakota than people in general.
Typical trailer trash?
Just hope they don’t reproduce, because that would no doubt be another case of reversed evolution.
But then again, being analytical, considerate, inclusive and reasonably bright are not desired qualities in REAL AMERICANS ™, is it?
Astonishing how someone here can compare this woman’s obesity to Stephen Hawking’s condition.
Do you SERIOUSLY think Stephen Hawking CHOSE to be paralysed?
What exactly is “calling someone on their looks,” anyway? Whatever it is, do you think it’s done equally to men and women?
Neither of those, as you define them, is equivalent to “hag.”
Jadehawk is showing the same lack of background knowledge and comprehension that (s)he showed when questioning the hostility toward SfO. It’s tiresome.
hm?
if “hag” means “”old woman considered ugly or frightful”, with an undertone of evil, then both the words I provided mean exactly the same, with the varied connotation that “greis” also includes senility. “dziad” means exactly the same as hag, just male.
German has the word “Greis” which refers to an old, senile man specifically.
As far as I can tell, it means “alter Mensch”, with no connotation of “senile” or any other negative connotation, beyond that of “old”. And it doesn’t refer to looks, quite unlike “hag”.
Polish has the word “dziad” which means an old and malicious man
dict.pl says “old geezer” — again, not comparable to “hag”. And notably, “dziadek” means “grandfather”.
Yeah like I said. i wasn’t suggesting you were part of the “mob”. Sorry for jumping on you.
Hey, don’t insult pigs!
Waking up in the morning with that beside you, or a real pig?
At least the pig will sound less inane.
I suspect the next few years will bring many new converts to the ranks of the relatively-sane.
The religious will pull a ‘stoopid’ that will get the entire country, or the world to notice. You know they have the home-grown, in-bred capacity.
This ‘stoopid’ will result in polarizations with a variety of outcomes. Hopefully the numbers of relatively-sane outnumber the whackos.
Using whacko reasoning and a minute stretch of the imagination; Mr. Obama’s role in this game is as The Anti-Christ. They will stop at nothing to realise The Rapture.
No imagination required to see where that leads.
And to top that off my spell checker wanted to change the incorrect spelling in the paragraph above to ‘Mr.Osama’s’. I’ll give you 3 chances to guess what a fundy-wacko would make of that. Is Microsoft Word in league with satan?
On the topic of satan. Satan was the catalyst to my dropping religion. (“well duh!”, said the fundy) I could not believe in the absurdity of a devil. No matter how compelling having a personal sky-fairy was :)
yes, “dziadek” means grandfather. “dziad” does not. the same way “babcia” means grandma, but “baba” means hag.
Neither one of the definitions you provided included anything about physical ugliness.
You also did the same thing here that you did on the earlier thread: asked an ignorant question while including in the same comment a snotty, condescending statement that presumed no one would challenge your assumptions. In this case:
I stand corrected. My bad.
Just a little over sensitive on all the race baiting that has been going on.
if “hag” means “”old woman considered ugly or frightful”, with an undertone of evil, then both the words I provided mean exactly the same, with the varied connotation that “greis” also includes senility. “dziad” means exactly the same as hag, just male.
Neither greis nor dziad refers to looks, and hag doesn’t imply evil … beyond the basic sexist/Christian notion that women are evil, young women being Satanic seductresses and old women being witches — worshipers of Satan.
tiresome
Yup.
Rev BDC
Its all good. Never felt a thing :)
Yes, profit is the only reason doctors do anything.
Anyway, I hope that things go well. Despite the strangeness of your posting it’s never good losing a friend.
My condolences.
the problem with dictionaries is that they never write anything about connotations. there’s polite and neutral ways of saying “old man”, neither of the examples are it. they’re the same kind of denigrating of old people into scary, old, bitter, and not quite sane scarecrows. (there’s worse in slang, but “alter sack” for an old, useless man is the only thing i can come up with right now)
yes, “dziadek” means grandfather. “dziad” does not. the same way “babcia” means grandma, but “baba” means hag.
Ok, I accept the criticism that I shouldn’t try to infer meaning from spellings in unfamilar languages, especially when idioms are involved.
well, i know “hag” as a word for witches in old plays, so that’s the connotation of evil. and i’ve never known either “greis” or “dziad” used in a way that didn’t imply scary, wrinkled looks. possibly with some drooling and toothlesness involved.
wow, a talking twinkie bar!!
Astonishing how someone here can compare this woman’s obesity to Stephen Hawking’s condition.
Do you SERIOUSLY think Stephen Hawking CHOSE to be paralysed?
Did you choose to be stupid? As has been noted, you know nothing of the causal factors affecting this woman’s weight, or the causal factors of obesity generally.
Perhaps you should a) find out what “lookism” means and b) appreciate the problems involved with generalizing from your own limited anecdotal experience (or interpretation thereof) before spouting off about misogynistic language.
The problem is that you’ve lost the thread of the discussion. No one was questioning whether these terms were insulting to old people.
Like I said – tiresome.
well, i know “hag” as a word for witches in old plays, so that’s the connotation of evil.
Affirmation of the consequent — just because the witches in those plays are called hags doesn’t mean that hags are necessarily witches.
and i’ve never known either “greis” or “dziad” used in a way that didn’t imply scary, wrinkled looks. possibly with some drooling and toothlesness involved.
It sounds more like inference than implication.
And you yourself have ackowledged that Ann Coulter has been called a hag, and neither she nor the woman in this video is old.
Astonishing how someone here can compare this woman’s obesity to Stephen Hawking’s condition.
Yeah, because we all know that it’s so fabulous and desirable to be fat in our society that everybody who is fat has actively chosen to be so, in order to partake of the status benefits it confers.
I am…in total agreement with truth machine about almost everything in this thread. Doesn’t happen often, but hey. Fist-bump!
No one was questioning whether these terms were insulting to old people.
I did question it, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s an irrelevant diversion.
Besides the aforementioned throwing up in mouth, head hitting desk, poking my eyes out with my finger, her comment that God would provide for them reminds me of a story I heard from a Catholic priest:
A flood is threatened and they’re evacuated. They come for a man who refuses the plea to evacuate saying, God will provide for me. The city floods and a boat comes to take him. He says no, God will provide for me. He’s on the roof as the flood waters have risen. The boat comes again and again he refuses, with the same response. The boat leaves, the flood waters rise and he dies. He goes to heaven and meets God and ask Him why He didn’t save him. God answers, “I sent help three times for you.”
She’s too concerned about the “right” church and the “right” religion to go beyond a three-year-old’s comprehension: Uhhh McCain, Christian, good. Obama sound funny, bad.
if it’s so tiresome, just bloody ignore it
1)lookism means exactly what i used it as: the shallow judging of people by their appearance, often in reference to “ugly” and “pretty”
2)there’s plenty of lookism and crude namecalling on this thread, but none of it strikes me as particularly misogynist in the sense that she’s being attacked because she’s female, and if she were a man no-one would call her on the fatness or other physical features
3)the reason I’m even arguing this is because every-time someone calls “misogynism” when a woman is attacked, or “racism” when a black person is attacked, or any and every labeling of something as “nazi” or “fascist”, when it’s not, the words are being watered down until no-one takes them seriously anymore (I think “nazi” jumped the shark at “soup-nazi” in seinfeld); the idiotic use of “racism” and “sexism” in this political campaign for example are wearing those words REALLY thin.
Yeah, because we all know that it’s so fabulous and desirable to be fat in our society that everybody who is fat has actively chosen to be so, in order to partake of the status benefits it confers.
And my obese former girlfriend (now in a lesbian relationship with another obese woman who doesn’t judge her) chose to be repeatedly raped by a relative – that emotional damage being so desirable.
I am…in total agreement with truth machine about almost everything in this thread. Doesn’t happen often, but hey. Fist-bump!
Hey, I often agree with you! (Even sometimes when you slam me for some excessive or misdirected orneryness.)
no-one takes them seriously anymore
That can certainly be a consequence of lumping valid and invalid uses of the terms, as you are doing with this blanket condemnation of them. There are plenty of uses of the words “racism” and “sexism” in this campaign that are not idiotic, and “idiotic” – yet calculated — uses of them that obscure and dismiss the real instances.
the idiotic use of “racism” and “sexism” in this political campaign for example are wearing those words REALLY thin.
Ah, the “don’t break glass except in a REAL emergency” argument. It’s actually the acceptance of those words in everyday speech that makes sexism and racism pervasive undercurrents in society. There’s no purpose in saving outrage for incredibly egregious examples, because those egregious examples are made possible by the thousands of ways the same thought processes are accepted in smaller doses.
I am sad, however, that the thread has been derailed into “not being a jackass 101” and has gotten off of the main issue at hand, which is making fun of this woman’s bizarre beliefs.
I did question it,
Yeah – that didn’t fully click till after I had posted.
You’re such a tease!
Well, now maybe I’ll take my sweet time… ;)
PS – to Carlie: I appreciated your dispatching of the “parted her legs like the Red Sea” guy (can’t remember the name). I didn’t have the patience to engage, but I was bothered by that comment and glad for your well-argued response.
argh. massive blockquote failiure.
Ignorant Atheist,
If your friends mother is a christian then you should tell her to stop being such a fucking hypocrite. After all as a christian she believes in heaven and therefore should be throwing a party cause god is calling her son home. There’s no reason to be sad. To christians, the afterlife is the prize. why would you cry over winning the lottery? What is a pitiful few years wrt an eternity with their beloved god. Come on this is what christians want.
or
you could just stop thinking about yourself for once you miserable troll and just listen to her and let her talk and not make it all about you, ya stupid douche.
Hey, I often agree with you! (Even sometimes when you slam me for some excessive or misdirected orneryness.)
We probably are on the same page more often than not, the nots just stand out more. :)
where do I do “blanket condemnation” of anything? the whole time, i’ve been arguing that calling this woman names is crude, and calling her on her looks is crude, but it isn’t sexism.
and I’m also not saying EVERY instance of calling “racism” and “sexism” on the campaigns is inappropriate, but that it’s been called on so many things now that even if it were now called on something truly sexist, or truly racist, it would be ignored.
oh and carlie, i’m guessing you used “REAL” as an amplifier, so in that case i agree that it shouldn’t be preserved for REAL emergencies (i.e. the extremely blatant ones)… but it should be, for actual ones, when there is actual sexism involved, rather than plain jackassery. and i’m arguing that this thread is full of jackassery and lookism, but not of sexism.
Why do they always have southern accents?
That’s the problem in a nutshell. Since those words are used as a foil, any real case of those attacks (and there have been some, especially racist comments) can just be dismissed.
oh, and i didn’t mean to say that “hag” had a connotation of perversion, I just couldn’t think of any term that insults old men in English.
An irrelevant fact, I’m sure.
OTOH, we have hag, crone and witch. There’s also harridan which etymologically comes from “worn out horse”. Other interesting terms for women are strumpet, virago, harlot, harpy, shrew, termagant, nag, scold. I’m sure there’s nothing to the fact that it’s harder to find male-specific pejoratives.
Geezer
Hey, does anyone even know McCain’s middle name? Anyone? Buehler?
It’s:
Sidney
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
good ol’ Sid McCain!
No. You’re not getting it. “Hag,” like “pig,” is an insult directed at women that has nothing to do with age or spitefulness. These are often used to call a woman physically ugly, but they are also generalized slurs against women that combine attacks on character with attacks on appearance and don’t have male equivalents. (There are men who would call Coulter a hag or a pig who don’t think she’s that physically unappealing. Does that tell you anything?)
I don’t think English is your first language or that you grew up in the US where you would have gained an appreciation of the meanings of these words as they are used. I mean, if you don’t see the misogyny in “dumb cunt,” is there really any point in discussing “hag”?
No.
where do I do “blanket condemnation” of anything?
In the post I responded to; sheesh.
I’m also not saying EVERY instance of calling “racism” and “sexism” on the campaigns is inappropriate
You in fact did but the clarification is welcome.
but that it’s been called on so many things now that even if it were now called on something truly sexist, or truly racist, it would be ignored.
As you’re busy doing, on both ends of that equation.
I agree with Helioprogenus @ 225. Assholes don’t think about the innocent bastards getting their hands chopped off on the other side of the world. They think about how bad they have it if somebody takes a portion of their paycheck, knowing they don’t even have to break a sweat to do their jobs.
Thanks, scooter:
Good ol’ Sid McCain the geezer.
Also, to the fat-hater-haters, I’d like to remind you of all the commercials of people who have lost a lot of weight and immediately talk about how bad they looked when they were big.
Just to be clear, neither Obama nor anyone in his camp referred to Sarah Palin as a pig. She said that the difference between a hockey mom and a pitbull was lipstick. Later, Obama used McCain’s own phrase, “lipstick on a pig”, to refer to McCain’s economic policies; there was no connection between the two other than the common word “lipstick”. The McCain campaign then launched a grossly dishonest smear, accusing Obama of calling Palin a pig — something that backfired on McCain when he was called out on it by numerous commentators, including all the “fact checkers”. In fact, this was widely seen as the derailing of the “straight talk express” nonsense.
#57,
Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn.
Yes, that was an incredibly lame and incompetent attempt at a smear campaign by the McCain crew. Did they think no one was familiar with that expression?
Just to be clear myself, I was referring to the “pig” comments in this thread (which did originally make reference to the campaigns, but did appear to be calling this woman a pig)*. I’m not sure why we’re talking about the campaigns anyway. Just another diversion, as far as I can tell.
*This particular word sticks in my craw since I learned years ago that Janis Joplin was called a pig by some of her high-school classmates. Grrr.
Also, to the fat-hater-haters, I’d like to remind you of all the commercials of people who have lost a lot of weight and immediately talk about how bad they looked when they were big.
I have no idea why you think this is something that “fat-hater-haters” need to be reminded of. As Carlie pointed out, people aren’t fat because it’s so fabulous and desirable. (Nor are they because they’re “greedy”, an incredibly idiotic conception of Matt7895.)
Ah, but you seem to be confusing not wanting be unattractive (or unhealthy, etc.) with viewing obese people as greedy, stupid, religious, trailer trash, etc. — equating two rather different sorts of “fat-hating”.
Ignorant:
You’ll just have to forgive us for being suspicious of your true motives. You see, the “answer” you were looking for is a matter of simple human decency that any reasonably well-brought-up seven year old would understand without a thought. If you truly needed advice from distant strangers on that point, then you need far more help than any of us can give you; otherwise, you are, as many have already told you, a fucking troll.
re: “the causal factors of obesity generally”.
Caloric intake > caloric expenditure.
Also, to the fat-hater-haters, I’d like to remind you of all the commercials of people who have lost a lot of weight and immediately talk about how bad they looked when they were big.
What tm said, along with what else do you expect? People are immersed in a culture that says how terrible it is to be fat from the minute they’re born – are you going to blame the fat people for internalizing that message?
And I’m not sure exactly what you’re getting at here – it seems that you’re taking on the FA movement, but that hasn’t been brought up here at all. No one’s said specifically that being fat is ok or even attractive, just that it’s not ok to insult people for the fact of being fat in the same way it’s not ok to insult ugly people for being ugly, or mentally disabled people for being mentally disabled, or black people for being black, or tall people for being tall, or women for having vaginas, etc.
Here’s the easy primer: if you’re going to insult someone, don’t do it on the basis of physical characteristics. Those are, for the most part, immutable and something they can’t do anything about even if they wanted to. Insulting their beliefs? Perfectly fine. Insulting them for making bad arguments? Even better. Have at it. But insulting someone for something they can’t change is really being a jackass, and making a pretty pathetic insult at that.
Caloric intake > caloric expenditure.
You understand neither causality nor human biology.
Husband needs to say, “I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you.”
Oh wait, wrong flavor of intolerant idiots.
this kind of stuff makes me so angry. just the pure ignorance. OK his name is Barack Obama, she obviously doesn’t know shit about his background. And that is just a name but someone how it influences her decision. I bet she doesn’t even have a reason for voting for McCain except for that McCain is not Obama the son of a muslim and an atheist. How incredibly ignorant. Take this fat shit off the internet so she doesn’t ruin life for everyone. People will become stupider by believing her group. What does she know about Christianity, I will question her faith if that is how she applies. Stupid fat fuck.
Caloric intake > caloric expenditure.
Start here.
Oh hell. Lipstick on a pig is an old hillbilly saying that’s as old as the hills. It just means no matter how you doll up a pig, it’s still a damned pig.
And no, we’re not there yet. Stop pinching each other or I’m going to pull the car over.
HidairMak… well said! I sure the f#$k hope she’s an aberration.
Hammer away at the bigotry and the willful ignorance. But come on, guys. Lay off the “fat” stuff. It’s high school. And it’s about as much of a laugh riot as making fun of cancer or a compound fracture.
@tm responding to me:
Sigh. Your disputatious antagonism appears to have overcome your rationality.
Are you claiming one can remain obese by consuming less calories than one expends?
OH SHIT. HIDE THE WEED!
Also see:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/magazine/22wwlnlede.t.html?_r=1
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=251
Here in rural Minnesota in the last year, my wife’s grandmother assured me that all the oil being pumped out of the ground right now was from mammoths that died in the Great Flood.
You can lead people to knowledge, but you can’t make them think.
That much is undeniably and necessarily true. But the point is that there are many, many factors that influence both sides of that inequality, and to cite “greed” and “choice” is simplistic, ignorant, cruel, and stupid.
Are you claiming one can remain obese by consuming less calories than one expends?
Kindly read the article linked in #330. No, but the short answer is it’s not that simple, because metabolism is complex. 3500 calories in = 1 pound gained is about as accurate as saying everyone’s resting temperature is always 98.6 degrees.
insulting someone for something they can’t change is really being a jackass
This is actually rather tricky territory. People will point out that a person can change their weight … but what’s involved in that? Is it really different from what’s involved in no longer making bad arguments, or even no longer being a jackass? I don’t really think we can challenge insulting people for their weight based on their ability to change that — to me, it’s a matter of whether the contempt is deserved, and the reasons people have for their contempt of the obese — it’s a result of being greedy, stupid, religious, etc. — simply aren’t valid, or at least reflect gross ignorance of the complex causal factors that lead to obesity. (Certainly not just caloric intake > caloric expenditure, as if we had knobs we can turn to set those; and those wouldn’t even be the right knobs, because it’s caloric uptake, not intake).
There is little difference between this wretch and the majority of female Nazi concentration camp guards during WWII. They too believed with all their heart. I suspect this woman would kill us all if she knew, like the guards, that she could do so with impunity.
There are three things about this woman that cause concern;
1. She is not alone.
2. She reproduces her genes and most horrifyingly, her memes.
3. She votes.
This lady is evil.
Sven, I acknowledge that greed need not be a factor in being overweight. However, I dispute that there is no choice (short of being force-fed).
Even if those slightly bizarre people hate Americans.
Sigh. Your disputatious antagonism appears to have overcome your rationality.
It’s a fact that your comment displays a lack of understanding of both causality and human biology, just as I said; it’s a fact regardless of any of my characteristics.
Are you claiming one can remain obese by consuming less calories than one expends?
No, I’m not, silly. But both how many calories one consumes and how many calories one expends are a result of complex factors, both behavioral and metabolic. What I wrote was “the causal factors of obesity generally”. Neither your equation nor either of its terms is coincident with that.
Some people choose not to exercise and also choose to eat a lot of ice cream. Others “choose” not to suffer feelings that most of us would interpret subjectively as “starving.” There are myriad psychological and physiological conditions that affect energy balance. It’s not always “choice.”
Sometimes it is.
OT but Christopher Buckley came off like a fairly charming fellow on the Daily Show after his endorsement of Obama despite his lineage.
However, I dispute that there is no choice (short of being force-fed).
Bully for you. But no one actually said that “there is no choice”, and that has no bearing on your claim, which was that “the causal factors of obesity generally” = “Caloric intake > caloric expenditure”. The question for you is, what are the causal factors of caloric intake and what are the causal factors of caloric expenditure. If you say “choice”, you’re in the same territory as goddidit. There is no room for contracausal free will in scientific explanations.
This is quibbling*; Sven said it was “is undeniably and necessarily true”, but you have proven this wrong as you have implicitly denied it, and now you are obfuscating.
* To amplify: The uptake is subject to metabolic limits, and beyond some threshold excess intake will not result in further uptake; however, diminishing the intake will necessarily diminish the uptake, and this was the point.
BigDumbChimp – You share that weed buster, or there will be no twinkies.
We’re gonna have to pull over to the red light motel pretty soon anyway. I’m getting too drunk to drive, and the Whippet is over heating.
There are myriad psychological and physiological conditions that affect energy balance.
If the world worked the way the oh so naive John Morales imagines it to, there would be no need for fitness expert Selene Yeager to write in Bicycling Magazine about the need to eat breakfast so as to avoid cravings later in the day.
John Morales,
As the great C. Wright Mills writes:
In addition to the problems with your simplistic “choice” argument at the individual level, the causes of the current “epidemic” of obesity, as Pollan makes clear in the article to which I linked, are social – located in large part in (corporate-influenced) agricultural policy, among other social factors.
now you are obfuscating.
You’re an ass. Suffer your appalling ignorance about metabolism and obesity — I don’t care.
One scary, stupid bitch. Who presumably votes.
Yikes!
I find this womans bigoted opinion to be reprehensible.
She did not look “fat” to me though, she likes she may be suffering from Cushings Disease or perhaps some other endocrine disorder.
As one who has a pititary disease my own self, weight gain with these disorders is not just the old calories in/calories out routine (I wish!)
Don’t take my word for it though, do a little research. One of the common features of Cushings Disease is a round fat face and neck. Her eyes made me think of fetal alchohol syndrome.
That said, she’d be better off prayin’ for Obama, as his ideas concerning health care in this country are much better than McCain’s.
And it’s posts like this that make me not want to read Pharyngula, as dangerous as paying no attention to such pernicious ignorance is.
What a terrifying person.
Walton –
I find your out-of-proportion concern for the economy and national security reprehensible.
There are things more important and fundamental to a stable world, such as basic human rights, which conservatives are notoriously bad at preserving.
Economy and national security can only happen when human rights are preserved.
Cripes. When commenters whose opinions I respect start saying I’m naive/simplistic for believing people have a choice as to how many calories they consume, I take notice.
Be aware that my noting of physical facts should not be considered to impute opprobrium.
@tm: perhaps we’re at odds over proximate vs. ultimate causes here.
The thing which struck me most is how confident she is.
You only find that level of absolute unshakable confidence in those who are consumed by the highest level of ignorance.
But this observation is a tautology. That kind of confidence can only be maintained by ignorance. And ignorance, being free of knowledge and reality which disrupt the ego, naturally begets confidence.
#161 wrote:
I not only wouldn’t be surprised, I’d be shocked if a study didn’t find a huge correlation between political and religious provincialism, and parochial tastes in food. I wouldn’t go so far as to propose it’s genetic, just strongly correlative.
No one can deny that small-town hicks like this woman are suspicious – to the point of outright fear sometimes – of foods and drinks (or magazines, or cars) that are “ferrin.” It’s obvious from the grocery store shelves in markets that cater to this set, as compared to places like Trader Joe’s, or Whole Foods.
It reminds me of my favorite article of all time from the late, lamented Weekly World News. About 15 years ago, they ran a “One Family Rates the Best Fast Food Chicken Sandwich in America!” article. They had the Podunk family of Sniveler’s Gulch rate McDonald’s Burger King, and Chik-Fila, or something like that. Best quote ever:
“We wanted to like the Burger King Chicken Sandwich, but it’s a little too spicy for our family.”
When commenters whose opinions I respect start saying I’m naive/simplistic for believing people have a choice as to how many calories they consume, I take notice.
No one said that, moronales. Stop being so fucking intellectually dishonest and look at what they actually said — like that “have a choice” is an incredibly naive way of characterizing human behavior, or of metabolism — once again, we don’t have knobs; the number calories available for uptake is not simply a matter of choice. Try reading some of the links you were given, for instance
perhaps we’re at odds over proximate vs. ultimate causes here.
And you are sighing? I specifically asked you “what are the causal factors of caloric intake and what are the causal factors of caloric expenditure”. What’s that I hear? [chirp]? Or is that “choice”? Once again, “There is no room for contracausal free will in scientific explanations.”
You say you “take notice”, but the only thing you seem to have taken notice of is being called naive.
#229 Norman Doering
Oh my FSM…that is funny!
Hehehehe….and they’re gunna pray that McCain stops being a confused idiot!
They’ll need at least 5 unblemished bullocks to serve as blood sacrifices on that one alone! :p
I not only wouldn’t be surprised, I’d be shocked if a study didn’t find a huge correlation between political and religious provincialism, and parochial tastes in food. I wouldn’t go so far as to propose it’s genetic, just strongly correlative.
It’s nice to know that you don’t think living in small towns is genetic — maybe.
Here’s a warning: if you would be shocked if the facts, as determined by scientific study, don’t agree with your beliefs that aren’t supported by scientific study, then you will tend to act and think just as if your beliefs had already been scientifically demonstrated. This is, for instance, a common mode of global warming deniers.
Truth machine – shut the fuck up. I did nothing to deserve your rant or your malicious interpretation of my words. Jesus H. Christ. I was wondering when I’d become the target of one of your nasty, unfair rants impugning my intelligence, you seem to have done it to everyone else.
How the hell do you get from my statement, “I’d be shocked if a study didn’t find a correlation” to accusing me of being unable to distinguish between my prior assumptions and what the evidence shows? How dare you? Do you really think that was a rational deduction on your part (nevermind how damned mean-spirited and uncalled for it was)?
How could you have willfully misread my sentence to mean “I think it’s possible that living in a small town is genetic”?
I think I’m about as reasonable, rational, and as nice a guy as most other posters here. What is wrong with you? Is working hard to make enemies of people who’d probably like you and agree with a lot of what you say just fun for you?
Seriously – fuck right off.
:)
And a thin-skinned misogynist, too, judging from the comment he left at my blog:
Bad news, SfO–at this point, I don’t see how you’re going to overcome Eric’s lead.
JoshS, I may well have misunderstood something, but I didn’t do so willfully, and I didn’t accuse you of anything, I offered a warning about a tendency that everyone is prone to. I can certainly be “mean-spirited”, but if you think that was a case of it, you have extremely thin skin.
Truth machine, thanks for clearing that up. I don’t have thin skin (I don’t think), but I also don’t think you always know how aggressive, hostile, and condesceding you can sound. I’m not the only one who’s noticed this. I accept that you didn’t mean it that way, and I appreciate your saying it. I do hope you’ll take a breath a little more before you post.
I understand – I’m passionate about things too. I try hard to remember there are real enemies out there – like this horrid woman who’ll be voting this year – that are better targets.
Peace.
And another clue for you, Josh: being shocked that one’s prior assumptions might be wrong is not the same has simply having some. It’s that high degree of certainty prior to obtaining the supporting evidence that I specifically referred to. Your reaction was anything but “reasonable, rational”.
I also don’t think you always know how aggressive, hostile, and condesceding you can sound
The deal is that I don’t really care all that much, and it’s a bit of a filter to weed out a certain sort of irrationality.
But I really do appreciate your conciliatory response. Hopefully I didn’t flip you around again with #369.
Oh, silly female seuxual organ. Look up the word reciprocity.
I don’t hate Wemon
I don’t even hate you.
Mild dislike maybe.
Wemon..Ha Ha ha. I invented a new word!
You are an ass.
There is just something I have to love about that.
Last post to you, TM. You’re continuing to a first-rate dick and rapidly dissolving any feelings of good will I had. Compounding your bad-faith approach and then condescending to me as if I bore the burden to be conciliatory (while you continue acting like an asshat) is just the living end. Yeah, I know you don’t care. So piss off, and we’re both happy.
Not to mention “seuxual”
Must be time for more Geodon.
Eric – you are such an idiot I hope Truth Machine doesn’t lower himself to slay you.
Sewer trash.
JoshS, your notion that you’re “reasonable, rational” is completely at odds with your reality. You are apparently too fucking stupid to understand the notion simultaneous posting — my post that came after I read your conciliatory one is #370, in which I thanked you for it … and in which I noted that you might have a negative reaction to #369.
Cretin.
Well trish…I certainly try.
Patricia, he’s so self-demonstrably cretinous that he doesn’t even deserve a swipe of that sling blade that you lear at so deliciously. :-)
Sigh. I know said I wouldn’t respond to you again, TM, but honestly, can we just not? You sure don’t like to give to give anyone else a smidgen of the benefit of the doubt. I’m not stupid, any more than you are. I’m not a cretin, either. Go in peace, or don’t. . . I’m going to have some cake.
Eric – you are such an idiot I hope Truth Machine doesn’t lower himself to slay you.
Sewer trash.
The world is coming to an end and I don’t even care.
As long as I can have my Limo, and my orange hair.
Sewer trash? maybe I am thin skined.
You sure don’t like to give to give anyone else a smidgen of the benefit of the doubt.
Aside from being incredibly emotionally immature, you’re also quite the hypocrite … see #364 for an example of not giving someone else a smidgen of the benefit of the doubt. For that matter, see #374 as well. I’m still trying to figure out how anything I said implied that you had a burden to be conciliatory — all I did was thank you for conciliatory comment — but it’s not worth further effort.
The cake is delicious. You’d be welcome to a slice if you were here.
I’d fear it was poisoned.
Ah, what’s a little arsenic? They say you can barely taste it if the recipe’s just right. . .
I’m not the murderous type, but I probably wouldn’t be above baking Eric Atkinson a happy Valium cake if it would keep him away for good long while.
keep him away for good long while
The appropriate recipe for Eric is found at http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/plonk.php
Oh, so it is – thank you. But then I have to wrestle with whether I’d be missing anything unpleasant but compelling. Sort of like worrying a wound – you don’t exactly like doing it, but you can’t help yourself.
She has a striking resemblance to Jerome Corsi. Quite the toadies. It seems that there are many Christians who just don’t understand that the Bible advocates murder, rape, jealousy, and vengeance just as much as the Koran (if not more) and neither should be taken literally in a civil society. Yet, these same Christians, like toady here, are far too willing to characterize all Muslims as literalists.
Hey, that’s something like each other’s posts a while back. :-)
Sastra (#171), You don’t agree that Christians equal cockroaches? I think that’s a fair description of them, but perhaps I was unfair to cockroaches. These people believe in Jebus. They say Jebus is Mr. God’s son. They believe they have a soul that flies up to heaven. These people are way beyond insane. Their stupidity is breathtaking. Many of them look like the fat disgusting slob in the video. Virtually all Christians are assholes. They brainwash their children. Do you really expect me to respect Christian scum?
I forgot to mention that Christian yell at biology teachers. They threaten and harass teachers who teach evolution. They are constantly trying to suppress the teaching of science. They are not satisfied with ruining the education of their own children. They want to destroy the education of everyone else’s children. They are constantly sticking their noses into other people’s private lives. Christians are cowards who are terrified of reality. Their beliefs are childish and idiotic. Christians are scum.
The Christians who think they are moderate are part of the problem. There is nothing moderate about believing Jebus was a god-man. It’s pure insanity. Christians are out of their minds.
whoa.
That’s just about the most frightening creature I’ve ever seen.
Notice how she at first demurs, testing the waters with a kind of cute embarrassment when she declares things like, “The Lord will take care of us…that’s the way I look at things”, as in, “hey, you wanna make something of it?”
This…thing…carries chips on her chips.
Then she works up a little more gander and even orgasmically gets off on it: the sheer HATRED that blazes from her eyes when she pushes the buzzwords…man, there’s some pretty hefty insanity at work there.
An animal that LOVES to hate…(and if her husband doesn’t do as she says and votes like she says, she will no doubt beat the shit out of him).
So THAT’s the “Real America” the GOP has been targeting all this time. Hmmm…
Mr. thalarctos was raised fundy, and he tells me that when he and his dad were wising up about it at around the same time, one of the things they would notice is how so many of the faithful would get that look when they were speaking in tongues or something similar. They looked just like they were having orgasms, and for all he knows, maybe they were. It seemed to fulfill a similar role for them, anyway.
As for falling away from religion, the whole family did at different rates. It’s hard to keep taking it seriously when you and your dad are always catching each other’s eyes during the service with a “did you see THAT?” look.
Yes, and they themselves were brainwashed as children, often before they had the cognitive development necessary either to evaluate what they were being taught, or to protect themselves from psychological damage. That’s not an excuse, and ultimately it doesn’t absolve them of responsibility for figuring things out and growing up, but your categorization of them as cockroaches for brainwashing their children is as facile and simplistic as Morales’ analysis re obesity was.
It does ultimately come down to the fact that they have to confront their own brainwashing, cope with it, and not pass it on to their own children. But stating it so facilely overlooks the real problems that make that task intrinsically much harder for some people than for others.
All hope is not lost.
Et tu?
Me: “re: “the causal factors of obesity generally”.
Caloric intake > caloric expenditure.”
World Health Organization: “What causes obesity and overweight?
The fundamental cause of obesity and overweight is an energy imbalance between calories consumed on one hand, and calories expended on the other hand.”
If my claim is simplistic, then so is that of the WHO – it being the same claim.
Note I post this having read the links earlier provided by others. My opinion has not changed.
#279: You’re interpretation of “Greis” is not entirely correct.
It is now rarely used, but when then to indicate “very old” (e.g >80) people rather than just old (e.g. > 65) people. Also it often tends to indicate some age related “frailness”, but it isn’t in any way indicating senility. The attribute “rüstig” as in “rüstiger Greis” is sometimes used to indicate a still bodily fit very old person.
It is also not completely correct that it doesn’t indicate visual attributes. I believe it has basically the same lingual roots as the english “grizzled”, indicating a grey or white-haired old person.
@aratina, #388
“It seems that there are many Christians who just don’t understand that the Bible advocates murder, rape, jealousy, and vengeance just as much as the Koran (if not more) ”
You are wrong there. They understand this perfectly well. And they would just LOVE to take part in it to get back at all those Atheists and generally OTHERS who don’t want to be like them, to take revenge on the world for their horrible lives.
I mean, come on… what would be YOUR disposition and mental health, if every time you looked in the mirror something like this looked back ?
If my claim is simplistic, then so is that of the WHO – it being the same claim.
They are, or would be if that were all they said (same with Novella). But you left out everything which follows:
(These actions on the part of the private sector will not happen, but what’s important here is the WHO’s recognition that obesity is fundamentally a social, political, and economic issue.)
Note I post this having read the links earlier provided by others. My opinion has not changed.
It’s one thing to say you’ve read the articles; it’s quite another to address the substance of what they’re saying.
S.Scott
come on over and party with me! I think that whacko might be my neighbor – we could drive her nuts!
Too late Tracy is already nuts as you can see.
BobC #390,391,
there are many (about 50% of them) Christians who do not yell at biology teachers. They do not threaten and harass teachers who teach evolution. They are not constantly trying to suppress the teaching of science. They do not want to ruin the education of their own children. They do not want to destroy the education of everyone else’s children. They are not constantly sticking their noses into other people’s private lives, most are pro choice, many pro gay rights.
These moderate tolerant Christians are not scum, are not cockroaches, you may call them insane because they believe Jebus was a god-man and other childish things but that doesn’t translate into the kind of detestable behaviour you accuse them of.
SC – I don’t dispute any of that which “I left out”; however what I did quote constituted the entirety of my first post on the matter, and it was that one-liner that was attacked. I still believe I was addressing the fundamental causal factor.
What appears to be controversial (“simplistic, naive”) in my follow-up is that I believe that people have, in general, the option to reduce their caloric intake. Sure, they need to have some knowledge regarding nutrition to do so safely and effectively, and they need to have some willpower and perseverance to succeed.
I acknowledge there are many factors and pressures that make such willed self-control difficult (for example, those listed in this page from the National Institutes of Health), however I fail to see how it’s simplistic to point out that the possibility of controlling most obesity exists. I also acknowledge that health issues are only of significance when the point of obesity is reached.
To be fully explicit, I believe that, in general, when people claim they cannot ameliorate their overweight condition, they are making excuses.
ThirtyFiveUp: The USA has a sad history of assassinations.
Well, mostly sad. The attempt on Andrew Jackson is hysterical. The would-be assassin fired two pistols into the president… who, unaffected, proceeded to beat the man silly with his cane until David Crockett and others were able to pull the elected nut off the other.
However, most attempts haven’t had such colorfully happy endings. =(
To be fully explicit, I believe that, in general, when people claim they cannot ameliorate their overweight condition, they are making excuses.
I believe that, in general, on this subject you are thick as a brick, willfully ignorant, flailing against a strawman, and a nasty bigoted jerk.
truth machine, what is this strawman to which you refer?
I get these “the lord will provide” patients all the time. I wonder what I’m doing taking care of these people if it’s out of my hands. Oh, the answer to that one is that I’m a tool of the lord. How convenient these religious nuts make it all sound. I wonder why her pussy whipped husband didn’t reach over and bitch slap her?
If my claim is simplistic, then so is that of the WHO – it being the same claim.
Listen, asswipe, the context was As has been noted, you know nothing of the causal factors affecting this woman’s weight, or the causal factors of obesity generally. Already discussed were both medical problems, and emotional problems stemming from sexual abuse. “the causal factors” not “the fundamental cause”. You already referred to proximate vs. ultimate causes, so you have at least some sense of what a pigheaded jackass you’re being. This so-called “fundamental cause” isn’t anywhere near ultimate — it does not tell us why people consume excess calories — no causal factors for that were included in your equation, even though causal factors is what I referred to. And to simply attribute the cause of that excess to “choice” is, as I have noted repeatedly, unscientific — human behavior is amenable to scientific analysis that goes far beyond your primitive, ignorant folk psychological notion that depends on the ludricrous notion of contracausal free will.
truth machine, what is this strawman to which you refer?
“people claim they cannot ameliorate their overweight condition”
That’s not the claim, you intellectually dishonest stupid fuck.
Me: “re: “the causal factors of obesity generally”.
Caloric intake > caloric expenditure.”
Hey, you stupid fucking piece of shit, do you want to claim that the fact that my ex-girlfriend having been repeatedly raped by a relative was not a causal factor of her obesity? You, in your arrogant intolerant jackassery talk about “choice” and “excuses” in regard to people who suffer immensely from depression and crying fits and resort to radical measures like stomach stapling. Try getting to know them before you judge them, you pile of garbage.
they need to have some willpower and perseverance to succeed
You’re an ignorant bigoted jackass who clearly considers a lack of “willpower” as a fundamental causal factor in obesity, despite it being a myth:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/27/eveningnews/main2210950.shtml
Maybe you fail to understand the nuances of the word “difficult” ?
Thanks for the clarification, tm – note however that I used the conditional “when”, which you elided from your response.
I suppose that means you consider that, since my claim
“I believe that, in general, when people claim they cannot ameliorate their overweight condition, they are making excuses.”
is that of someone thick as a brick, willfully ignorant, flailing against a strawman, and a nasty bigoted jerk, the converse claim
“I believe that, in general, when people claim they cannot ameliorate their overweight condition, they are not making excuses.”
is none of those, and presumably more correct than the former.
Interesting.
I believe that, in general, when people claim that other groups of people are making excuses for not being able to ameliorate their condition (overweight, jobless, etc…), these people have no fucking clue of what they are talking about.
@negentropyeater: Perhaps I fail to understand the nuances, or perhaps I was using understatement. I suppose I should’ve written extremely difficult. :)
@truth machine, I find the end of the article which you linked of significance, and consider it supports my case more than yours:
Isn’t she using willpower and perseverance with some success?
Thanks for the clarification, tm – note however that I used the conditional “when”, which you elided from your response.
There is no such “when”, you pathetic dishonest piece of shit; it’s a strawman.
“I believe that, in general, when people claim they cannot ameliorate their overweight condition, they are not making excuses.”
is none of those, and presumably more correct than the former.
Who are you quoting, asswipe? That’s not the claim; there is no such “when”. Thus people neither are or are not making excuses under that condition, because the condition doesn’t occur.
Interesting.
Asshole.
negentropyeater @412: I was being domain-specific, I don’t make the same claim for “… jobless, etc.”
This is a hot-button topic, isn’t it? :)
John Morales,
you don’t even seem to realise that the words “in general” are ridiculous when discussing a subject like this one !
There’s no “in general” that holds with obesity, how can you not understand this simple fact.
Isn’t she using willpower and perseverance with some success?
Your question is predictable from your intellectual dishonesty and stupidity. The article is all about the fact that she doesn’t lack willpower, she has an excessively efficient metabolism. As she explicitly said, her obesity wasn’t caused by a lack of discipline. She was disciplined when she wasn’t losing weight, and she was disciplined when she was. Lack of discipline was not a causal factor. In order for her to lose weight, she had to go beyond what your victim-blaming ignorant self has to do to maintain the same level.
Cretin.
Isn’t she using willpower and perseverance with some success?
No.
You are circularly inferring “willpower” from any successful outcome her efforts might have; should she regain the weight, it will be seen as a “lack of willpower”, that she “didn’t try hard enough”, or worse, that she “really didn’t want to lose the weight”. TruthMachine is absolutely right here, that fictional causes like willpower are nonscientific, misleading, and ignorant. We really do know quite a lot more about the actual environmental causes of behavior, and invoking “willpower” at this stage in our knowledge is about as helpful as claiming the influence of some spiteful demigod who happens to like people fat.
This is a hot-button topic, isn’t it? :)
Asshole.
@tm: Who am I quoting? Why, no-one. It is my claim.
As to it not occurring, I have had overweight (but not obese) people make that very claim to me. In my family, and in a previous workplace. Of course, this is anecdotal and I cannot document it here.
Still, a quick search (first hit!) shows this:
about as helpful as claiming the influence of some spiteful demigod who happens to like people fat
Indeed. As I said way back in #348, If you say “choice”, you’re in the same territory as goddidit.
I find it slightly bizarre that, for a site ostensibly dedicated to rational thought, every slight disagreement is accompanied by masses of vitriol and profanity on both sides.
Yes, I can understand that when some raving lunatic like Robert Byers spams a page with his gibberish about global neocon conspiracies, people tell him to f**k off, as it’s a waste of time engaging him civilly. But for the most part, people have honest and genuine disagreements on various points. Here, the debate (in which I haven’t become involved, and have nothing useful to add) seems to be whether we should blame obese people for their condition. Fine – that’s a legitimate topic of medical, ethical and philosophical contention. So why is it necessary, in arguing the point, to refer to the other side using strings of profanity?
(Incidentally, I also find it amusing that truth machine, at #417 supra, while seemingly – and perhaps justifiably – offended at the various slights advanced here against obese people, seems to think it’s perfectly okay to refer to a fellow commenter as “cretin”. So it’s unacceptable to make jokes about obese people, but quite acceptable to use pejorative terms about the mentally handicapped as throwaway insults?)
I know you were being domain specific, but when people make such symplistic general claims about such complex multi-factorial problems such as Obesity, they do sound like they know nothing of the subject they are talking about.
I mean you have genetic, emotional, socio-economic, educational factors, when you mix them all up, how can you say that in general they are making excuses ?
It’s completely ridiculous.
Still, a quick search (first hit!) shows this:
Which says nothing about making excuses, but rather is about misperception. And you’re taking “I can’t lose weight” absurdly literally — none of these people are saying that it’s impossible to ameliorate their overweight condition, but rather that their current attempts are failing — but they continue to go on diets, seek medical help, and even surgery.
Asshole.
@anon @418: how do you read
as not using willpower and perseverance?
This, in addition to all the other examples of McCain/God followers has made me so incredibly sad. I’m not sure I can stand another minute of stereotypical, fat, ignorant hate speech.
I am going to cuteoverload to drown my sorrows in kittens. Whose with me!?
John, your first post in its entirety was:
It’s simplistic because it glosses over so many causal factors, and it doesn’t bring in any new information–your entire trivially true first post can be summed up, without any loss of information, as “No shit, Sherlock”.
And it’s facile because of all of the hand-waving that goes into that level of abstraction. It’s easy to just say that, without grappling with any of the difficult issues, like subsidies of high-fructose corn syrup food additives, fewer healthy options at price-gouging groceries in poor neighorhoods, and all the others that truth machine and others have brought to your attention.
Physiologically, psychologically, and economically, there are complicated factors on both the intake and expenditure sides of the energy equation. I guarantee you the despicable right-wing bigot in the video knows what you said about losing weight; if it were as non-complicated as you first portrayed it, everyone would do it easily.
The facileness of your explanation is rather as if I summarized the genotype-phenotype correlation problem by saying “it’s not one-to-one and onto; rather, it’s complex and non-linear”, and then looked for my Nobel for “solving” the problem. As true as the statement may be in some technical sense, it’s also quite useless.
If the entire WHO report consists of a drive-by 2-line posting stating the unanalyzed obvious as if it were Truth, I’ll call them simplistic and facile as well; appeals to authority don’t impart any validity to an otherwise invalid argument. Knowing similar WHO white papers and reports, I suspect, however that you picked this one quote out of a much larger context, and are representing this as the entirety of their position on the matter.
If you say so. I see a real change from your drive-by oversimplified first post to at least a willingness in the later ones to acknowledge that you glossed over a lot of complex causal factors.
Walton, I’d like to make it clear (though I referred to this already @358) that I’m not claiming that obese people should be blamed for their condition. What I am claiming is that reducing caloric intake (whilst preserving adequate intake of nutrients) below caloric expenditure will result in weight loss. This has proven to be a controversial claim, but I see nothing substantive in the responses I’ve so far received that leads me to alter my opinion.
I furthermore made no claim that it was easy – the evidence is overwhelmingly clear that it is so hard most can’t manage it.
I do agree that the epithets routinely used by some are annoying, mostly because they represent wasted verbiage and contribute little other than to indicate the mind-state of the poster. Personally, I disdain such.
it’s facile because of all of the hand-waving that goes into that level of abstraction
That was my point in responding by saying that he understands neither causality nor human biology … which he has reinforced with all of his subsequent posts.
I’m not claiming that obese people should be blamed for their condition
Liar. Or rather, pathetically intellectually dishonest, since you are blaming them, regardless of whether you claim they should be.
What I am claiming is that reducing caloric intake (whilst preserving adequate intake of nutrients) below caloric expenditure will result in weight loss. This has proven to be a controversial claim
Liar.
thalarctos @427, I can’t dispute anything you’ve written there, and it’s a nice summation. So, OK, it was simplistic and facile.
What can I say, it was a flip response to a point truth machine made, to which I objected and which I probably misread, and I now think it would’ve been better had I not done so.
And I leave it at that.
I furthermore made no claim that it was easy – the evidence is overwhelmingly clear that it is so hard most can’t manage it.
For which you offer no explanation other than a mythical lack of willpower. Once again, the reasons for that difficulty are what I was referring to as “the causal factors of obesity”.
Idiot.
Just watched it, my reaction
losing body fat is about calories, of course it is, weigh youreslf on day #1, eat nothing for 24 hours and by day #2 you will weigh less. of course managing a sustained fat loss programme does require some basic nutrition/food understanding and planning over the short and long term, many overweight people simply do not have the knowhow regaring nutrition to make the food choices that will help them, and as we see with this lady (for eg) her perception of reality is so corrupt that the same might apply with her understanding of nutrition. The most obese people i know unfortunately do have very bad diets:ice cream, cookies, cakes, chips and chocolate en masse is not going to work, no, it really isnt. the occasional 30% reduced fat granola bar just isnt going to help them (and granola bars are a sugar/fat fest to begin with anyway)like they think it will.
losing body fat is about calories, of course it is, weigh youreslf on day #1, eat nothing for 24 hours and by day #2 you will weigh less
Fuck but you’re a genius. Weigh yourself, take a piss, weigh yourself again and you will weigh less.
Sigh.
my post 434, of course there is a difference between losing body weight and specifically body fat, i remember family members in the 80’s starving themselves on 1000/day diets having the choice of an apple OR a 2 finger kitkat for breakfast, fuck, thats like torture, where the hell did the medium bowl of porridge with blueberries go??? each and every minute was spent thinking about that next 26 calorie crispbread with fat free cottage cheese, im glad that good advice passed on.
truth genius, #435.
….further, take a couple of dumps, vomit, have a hair cut, clip your toenails, pull out that loose tooth and glass eye and one could fool that weight watcher class turtor into thinking youd actually done well that week!
Every slight disagreement? Evidence, please. And as truth machine has demonstrated over many months, rational argument and profanity are in no way mutually exclusive. And as you have shown, politeness and expressions of sincerity are not necessarily correlated with strong arguments, intellectual honesty, or honesty period.
How’s that assignment coming, Walton?
…further, take a couple of dumps, vomit, have a hair cut, clip your toenails, pull out that loose tooth and glass eye and one could fool that weight watcher class turtor into thinking youd actually done well that week!
Which just reinforces how trite and pointless your “don’t eat for a day” comment was. Try reading #427 and note the words “simplistic” and “facile”. I would add “anecdotal”, in regard to your “The most obese people i know” … there are people outside your limited universe to whom your observations do not apply.
Every slight disagreement?
That’s not the extent of his sloppiness. “masses of vitriol and profanity on both sides”? I don’t think John produced any vitriol or profanity. And mine did not come merely from a slight disagreement — there’s no vitriol or profanity in “you understand neither causality nor biology”. It didn’t even come in response to “Your disputatious antagonism appears to have overcome your rationality”, although it should have. It was only when John absurdly accused me of “obfuscating” that I called him an ass. And I said he was “fucking intellectually dishonest” when he offered the first of several grossly misrepresentative strawman characterizations of what people were disputing. I react strongly to bad faith, and here it had a rather personal dimension because my close personal experiences with many sufferers of obesity, some of them people I have loved deeply.
TM.
it is true to say that not eating for a day means that you will weigh less the next, i dont see why that is an issue. my limited universe, well as ive lived in three countries at opposite sides of the planet it cant be that limited, and i’ll stick with it, ‘the most obese people i know….’ yes, its anecdotal, but i wasnt presenting it as some article for peer review. Over the last 2 years ive lost a honest 15lb of fat too, yes, its taken 2 years of a reduction in calories and more excercise, a simple change in some foods and a cessation of alcohol has also helped, yes it was difficult, i have a pathetically large appetite, i could get very fat very quickly but i dont especially like having a big fat tyre round my waist so i decided to actually get rid of it. Interestingly in settinmg out to reduce body fat i used the basis of less calories in and more calories out than i used to and hey presto it worked, maybe it was god looking out for me??
And if you drink nothing for three days or more, your weight loss accelerates. Precipitously. Of course, you’ll lose consciousness and cease to metabolize entirely. But maybe that’s for the best. After all, fat people deserve to suffer. Or take up less space and reduce the surplus population.
I’d love to have seen the following question asked:
“If John McCain announced that he was an athiest tomorrow, would you vote for Obama?”
I would put large sums of money on betting that she would still say No.
i dont see why that is an issue
No doubt about your limited sight.
What I am claiming is that reducing caloric intake (whilst preserving adequate intake of nutrients) below caloric expenditure will result in weight loss.
Wow, don’t any of you ever sleep?
As for that statement, even that is fraught with standard deviation bars. How much do you have to reduce it? If you had read the linked articles, you would see that people who have been obese store calories 10-15% more efficiently than non-obese people, even if they lose weight and keep it off. Other articles, also linked, indicate that the composition of one’s intestinal flora may have a huge effect on how many calories are absorbed from food. I guess you can argue that those factors are wrapped up in the fact that you said caloric expenditure total, but how can a person determine their own expenditure, then?
how can a person determine their own expenditure, then?
I said long ago (have I slept since? I forget), “as if we had knobs we can turn to set those”. Not only can’t we set them, but, as you note here, we can’t measure them. In response, some intellectually dishonest fool accused me of denying that it’s possible to reduce caloric input or increase expenditure. He reminds me of the joke about the farmer who discovered that he could save money on oats by replacing some with sawdust in his horse’s feedbag. Over time he replaced more and more oats with sawdust, but “dagnabit, just when I had the fool horse eating no oats at all, it went and died on me!”
so all other things being equal eating nought for one day will mean the next day you weigh less than the previous.
interestingly TM, you mention obesity and sexual abuse. The three women i know personally who were sexually abused (and maybe i have a really limited world circle here by only knowing 3) are actually close to optimum weight, well, to my narrow cultural perception of ‘optimum’, they have some body fat, and muscle tone and are what most might subjectivly call ‘healthy looking’.
maybe i have a really limited world circle here by only knowing 3
Gee, you think?
http://fatnews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/2604/
One study found that a history of physical abuse increases a woman’s risk of being overweight or obese by 34 percent.
Another study found that obese women who had been sexually abused in childhood or adolescence lost an average of 33.7 pounds compared to 51.7 pounds for women who were not sexually abused.
P.S. You know more than three sexually abused women, you just don’t know it.
carlie #445.
interestingly it seems that pacific islanders are larger than average than most other people (this is something i read).
im not sure how its measured, maybe weight and bone size etc, (i dont want to sound to sure of myself here in case my information is picked apart) eg samoans, seems that existing on tiny islands with catastropic weather has bottlenecked the human populations out there so often in the past that the largest people with the most fat storing ability were the ones who could hold out whilst food supplies returned after catastrophic events. all open to falsification but interesting anyway. one thing I noticed according to my narrow perception, the pacific islanders i have met are on average far more massive than any other group (again, i dont want my terms being hacked open, eg ‘so what consitutes a group?’) lets just say that if somebody suggested I have a punch up with 10 japanese men and 10 samoan men all of average size for their respective islands, i know that i’d be picking the japanese men as my assailents, if only so i would last a bit longer!
TM.
I did say the three women who i knew were abused (well, i assume they arent lying to me but of course thats a possibility). Of course that didnt mean that they are the only women i know who have been abused, and im sure there are many, many more, i also know a few men who were abused and im sure there are many more who i dont know were abused. Throwing statistics at me is fine but theres no need, all i said was the three women i knew were abused were of ‘optimum’ weight.
tm, you will notice that i never called the woman in the video on her large size (you pulled me up on the post fasting weight loss thing, which i assume is actually ‘true’), although i will throw out my defence when I called her a ‘talking twinkie bar’, that was nought to do with her size, had she been incredibly thin she would have still been a talking twinkie bar, pink and yellow and without any good content. maybe next time i’ll just have to say ‘ugh, what a horrid set of thoughts that brain has!!’.
Jeez, you folks are still at it?
Energy balance is conceptually simple:
(Kilojoules assimilated from food)-(Kilojoules expended as chemical or mechanical work) = (Kilojoules retained, mostly as fat).
That conceptual simplicity masks an extremely complex web of physiological and psychological interactions. We lack a clear understanding even of the physiological mechanisms alone, working correctly to maintain even balance; there are multiple interacting hormones (including thyroid hormones, ghrelin from the stomach, cholecystokinin from the duodenum, leptin from fat-storage tissue itself, etc.), and these interact with the nervous system in both directions.
The “expenditure” part is the easiest for most (able-bodied) people to control, through exercise. Even nervous fidgeting has been shown to significantly affect energy expenditure.
I am interested in hearing the husband’s concerns, but it seems that segment was before the video, any way to find that out?
We are marching proudly backwards to the future. That is the motto from “The Department of Homeland Decency: Decency Rules and Regulations Manual,” a hilarious satire of these types of people. It’s available at bookstores everywhere.
My dad reads this blog a lot, and forwarded this video post to me.
I just thought I’d share with you an interesting article I read about the history of Obama’s name and the right’s complete misinterpretation of it. Maybe someone should share it with miss myreligioniseverything
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2008/08/barack_thy_name_is_biblical.html
Cheers!
I did say the three women who i knew were abused
It’s hard to tell, as your posts are barely intelligible. Didn’t you ever learn the concept of sentences?
I am interested in hearing the husband’s concerns, but it seems that segment was before the video, any way to find that out?
Not being inept, I had no trouble finding the full video, of which this is the second half.
Although I fear to weigh in (pun slightly intended) on this thread, I would point out that in the article linked to earlier it states:
“And we documented that fat people do eat too much — our subjects ate an average of 6,700 calories a day. But what was so impressive to me was the fact that not all fat people eat too much.”
That’s a mean value of over two and a half times the recommended number of calories for an adult male. Now, while there may be a wide range of other subtle and complex causes of obesity, such as genes/bacteria/sunspots etc., I suspect that for those on 6,700 calories or above a day those calories may be a wee bit of a contributing factor. Note that this does not mean that I agree with linking appearance in any way to worth as a person. I do not.
In other news, I also reserve the right to call someone a cock and/or a twat.
I wish the interviewer had asked this woman how she could reconcile her candidate’s numerous extramarital affairs with her assertion of him being the most godly choice. It just would have been nice to see her flinch a little.
Ah, how nice it is to be reminded that females are always judged first on their fuckability, and second on the content of what they have to say. And that even Supposedly Librul Dudes, atheist, ‘freethinkers’, and scientist dudes will engage in this practice of putting bitches in their place.
#457
oh heck, you really like to nit pick. I dont usually bother with the complexities of sentence structure on a blog as I type and hit and run. surely you understand what i mean especially as you enjoy flensing posts for their innacuracies so must be intelligent enough to get a posters basic position.
In a nut shell: I know of three women who were sexually abused, they are in good close to optimum condition for their ages.
and that was it.
Interestingly, one of them (time for some more of that useless anecdotal evidence) perhaps maintains her optimum weight as a consequence of abuse, its about keeping herself healthy and being in control of herself. I hope that makes sense to you.
i seem to remember senetences have full stops/periods at the end and start with capital letters, im doing quite well I suppose.
By the way, i notice that you spend more time noting others fallacies or other failings than actually adding much useful input to the ‘debate’.
Your first reply to my post was ‘fuck, but you’re a genius’ when i stated something regarding not eating and weighing less the next day
(all other things being equal, that is true so its not something that you needed to comment on) also i said that the most obese people I knew had bad diets, i never said anything like ‘all obese people have bad diets’.
anyway, looks like overweight seems to be a contentious issue here, i’ll just go an finish eating my two fingered kitkat for breakfast.
zdk #461.
thats probably got something to do with that evolution thing. its very, very, nasty.
tm.
oh, just so its clear. The whole ‘the most obese people I know have a bad diet’ was presented as a fact (well according to my definition of a bad diet anyway). Its was not anecdotal evidence for anything. I just wanted to make that quite clear. I suppose i could use that as anecdotal evidence and say ‘bad diet makes you fat because all the obese people i know eat bad diets’ but knowing that doesnt work as evidence I will refrain.
Now where are those kitkat crumbs? Worth at least 2 calories each. waste not, want not.
But what was so impressive to me was the fact that not all fat people eat too much.”
You posted that sentence. Did you even read it? Yes, the first group was eating more than they need, and likely may have been gaining weight. However, READ THE NEXT SENTENCE. That one means you can’t generalize that to all fat people. You quoted it yourself.
In other news, I also reserve the right to call someone a cock and/or a twat.
No one ever said you couldn’t. Just be prepared for other people to rightly call you a sexist jackass when you do.
@Carlie #465
I’m sorry, would you care to point out where I said that I generalised it to all fat people, because I’m pretty sure that I didn’t. You seem to have gotten completely the wrong impression of what I was saying, by jumping in all guns blazing simply because I’m not in complete agreement with you.
I said that, for those eating huge amounts of calories a day (>6500 calories), it seems silly to suggest that this is not a contributing factor to their weight. However, I happily acknowledge that this is not true for all overweight people, and I never claimed that this was the case.
Hmmm…Wasn’t Obama’s mother white? Wasn’t he raised by his white grandparents? Then why is he called Black?
After watching this video, It got me thinking. Perish the thought BUT if Obama is elected Pres, he has a statistically higher chance of being assassinated in office than any Pres since Lincoln. Here’s my list of probable perpetrators and reasons why.
—
Muslims because he’s not Muslim enough
Christians because he’s not Christian enough
Blacks because he’s not Black enough
Whites because he’s not White enough
Anyone from Fox News
Just about anyone below the Mason Dixon Line
The uber rich because taxes will go up
Joe The Plumber’s crowd because he’s not white, christian and because he exposed Joe for what he is.
Rev Wright cause he’s on the outs and pissed
KKK
The Loonies from that church in KS
The Loonies from that church in Alaska
Someone from Skull and Bone-rs
Secret Service Agent because he’s “not taking no bullet for no Nigger”
Fat people cause he’s really trim
Oh, and Crazy Tracy
There are a lot of potentially venomous folks.
“I am interested in hearing the husband’s concerns, but it seems that segment was before the video, any way to find that out?”
Full video:
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/441/index.html
I saw it when it aired Friday night and thought it was prime PZ material. I don’t know how to edit FLV, though.
Reading this has made me hungry.
Hi. Welcome to America. We have this thing called “The Constitution”……..it guarantees things like “freedom of religion” and “separation of church and state”……..
Take your religious nonsense and shove it in your mouth with all those god-fearin’ TWINKIES!
P.S. Not all fat people are christers. I’d like to lose a few (a lot, actually), but I’m a gods-respecting WITCH, and I’m voting for Obama. Even though he is a christian.
P.P.S. He’s as white as I am, so his race doesn’t bother me.
P.P.P.S. Most of that bible was written only a little bit North of Obama’s father’s homeland. I think the christianity in the bible is more apropos of Rev. Wright and Barack Obama, Senior, than of some Pillsbury doughgirl in B.F. America.
PCFree, #467 says,
“Hmmm…Wasn’t Obama’s mother white? Wasn’t he raised by his white grandparents? Then why is he called Black?”
I wonder exactly the same thing. Heck, I wonder why black people are called black.
–
thalarctos, #393 – yep, I’ve noticed that for a long time too. They’re into the attainment of “rapture”, big time, with a lots of ways of acheiving a state of community euphoria reaching well into frenzied hysteria. The sexual connotation appears to have a fairly long tradition too (such as, for example, the theme of female “sexual fulfillment” like that of “The Ecstasy of Saint Theresa” and others, an obsession with a lot of artists). Their acting it out in front of each other at boisterous church gatherings has an especially pornographic character to it. They get off on showing each other how wildly they can get off.
It’s funny. Come to think of it, I can’t think of a more communistic pastime than those community faith-fests. There’s not a single independent, liberated mind among them. They belong to a horde-mind.
What a fucking lunatic.
Eric Atkinson –
Shut the fuck up unless you have substantive things to say.
Or else I will bring you to PZ’s attention in an email, complete with evidence of your shallow bloviating and trollery, and you will probably be summarily killfiled unless PZ has somehow sadly thought that you have any sort of POINT to contribute to the discussion.
too bad a stephen colbert wasn’t on hand to ask her to recite the ten commandments, so we could watch her squirm when it dawns on her, as she starts floundering after eeking out 2 or 3 of them, that she doesn’t really understand her religion as well as she thinks she does.
prideful ignorance: it’s every true american’s birthright.
Katharine, threatening to tell PZ is bad form. Also, don’t you think PZ is already aware of Erik.
As is stands, Erik is nowhere near the same depths of stupidity as some of the trolls in the dungeon. I would suggest that you go to the dungeon list, enter the names in the upper left hand corner and read some of the crap. Check out a certain cretin named Kenny.
Half-remembered dialogue from a late-60s talk show, maybe Mike Douglas:
“Why do you call yourself ‘black’? Your skin isn’t really black; it’s brown.”
“True. Why do you call yourself ‘white’? Is your skin white?”
(looking at back of hand)”No, I guess you’re right–my skin is flesh-colored.”
“So’s mine.”
Eric A. is sort of comparable to Joe Blow, but he actually provides data/references – not much (large snark/data ratio), and you can disagree with them, but something, while JB didn’t seem to provide anything other than juvenile taunts. He doesn’t usually vomit large blocks of referenced, useless text, or lie repeatedly – he can be annoying, but he’s not all that bad. Just wait until Pete Rooke, stanbot, or kenny show up – a few bytes of human skin and rape fantasies or intransigence as a very poor art form and it becomes apparent that there are lower forms of life than EA with access to a keyboard.
Fat fucking gluttonous,materialistic, hypocritical worthless excuse for a human beeing
I said that, for those eating huge amounts of calories a day (>6500 calories), it seems silly to suggest that this is not a contributing factor to their weight.
Who the fuck ever suggested any such thing?
Good lord some people are dense.
Well the Neanderthals succumbed to modern homo sapien…tis odds on with that sort of attitude that it will not prepare or bestow success on the sub species …homo-fundamentalis either…
The trait will eventually wither and die as a defunct line in the species…a dead end…no evolutionary advantage…
It is not her appearance…it is the absence of intellectuality…
She is a mental throw back… a retard…and doomed …with or without her delusions…
Obama will be the next president …matters not a jot ….
@charley
Thanks for the full video!
From #134: blatant displays of hatred
Brandon, I stand by what I said: She looks like a Christian (fat, stupid looking face). She sounds like a Christian (insane stupid asshole).
Perhaps not all Christians are fat, but they are definitely stupid and they are definitely insane, unless you want to pretend believing in Jebus is normal.
One of my hobbies is looking at pictures of Christians on the internet. I’m talking about pictures of the author of some article I read. Virtually always the Christian has a fat stupid looking face. They look stupid because they are stupid.
I don’t hate Christians. I just consider them to be equal to cockroaches. I wouldn’t want a Christian in my home for the same reason I wouldn’t want a cockroach in here.
Wow, did the guy who made the above comment miss the point on this issue!
Let me make this clear, I can’t stand this woman. I hate everything she stands for. I hate her pride in her bigotry and lack of education. She makes all of the rest of us who live in the South and believe in God look bad.
That being said, you’re just standing on the other side of the hate fence – comparing all Christians to cockroaches is just as bad as her assertion that Obama’s athiest mother and Muslim make him unfit for the presidency.
And attacking her for her looks? That’s just as bad as the people who like Palin just because she’s pretty. I’m a Christian. I’m overweight, and would never be mistake for a supermodel. I have a heavy southern accent. However, I’ve been a Democrat all my life. I’m educated, well informed, and just happen to love Jesus Christ. I agree with Obama’s policies and feel that he will help and benefit our country in ways McCain can’t and won’t. So…does that automatically make me prettier? Imagine the money I’ve saved on plastic surgery, just by having the correct viewpoint (read: YOUR viewpoint)! One would almost think you’re just like her, only atheist. Your viewpoint seems as narrow as hers, and your vitriol as strong.
So attack her for her lack of education, point out discrepancies between the Bible and her point of view, deride her for her treatment of and lack of concern for her husband (poor guy), but attacking her for the sin of being not pretty places you in the same category as her.
Is this from the “Onion”?No?Wow.
I really hate coming here, and hearing all the bigotry towards people like this. There is so much hate here from Atheists, I hope this isn’t how we all think. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. Yes this women is wrong, and probably an idiot, but so what. Lots of us have irrational beliefs, we don’t start hating each other.
Do you have such hate for a retarded person, becuase they don’t understand the world either? How is this women any different?
#483: I’m a Christian.
If you’re a Christian, then you’re nuts. Jebus was a god-man? That’s insane. Grow up and face facts. Your Jebus was just a human ape.
Higher brain function and the consequences in a democratic society.
#483: not pretty
The disgusting slob in the video was a lot more than “not pretty”. She is the most ugly animal I’ve ever seen in my life. I’m not surprised that she’s also a Christian.
cak: I really hate coming here
You don’t have to visit blogs you don’t like.
i wasnt going to bother posting on this thread again but the following little experience made me do so.
I was just in the supermarket and the lady next to me pointed at the magazines at the checkout, she was laughing at one that said ‘lose weight by just reading the labels on the products’ (or something like that) she commented to me that ‘thats how they draw you in, by showing ways to lose weight, but im not falling for that one’ she then said ‘they only way to lose weight is to eat less and exercise more’!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I smiled and said ‘apparently so’ but thinking back to this thread (and in particular the first answer i got from a particular poster after i made a comment) maybe what i should have said to her was:
‘Fuck but you’re a genius. Weigh yourself, take a piss, weigh yourself again and you will weigh less’
with a rather aggressive tone and rather loudly. yes, maybe i should have done that but i didnt really want to make myself appear like some aggressive, psychopathic, self righteous little fuck in public, that type of thing could easily have lead to me being told to leave the shop or worse.
anyway, I didnt say that to her, I simply chatted to her as she unloaded her cart, she was telling me what she was giving the kids for halloween night.
yes, and that really happened.
Aside from being incredibly emotionally immature, you’re also quite the hypocrite
Project much?
-jcr
#468 Bezoar:
Don’t forget, Jesse Jackson wants to cut his balls off.
-jcr
I am a real, true American woman. I am from the South and my accent sounds remarkably like Tracy’s. I used to be overweight. I HAVE NEVER supported or held thoughts/ views that are this ignorant in nature.
She is a wonderful archetype for us to cast our agressions on, but, sadly, there are millions of attractive and (semi) well-spoken individuals who hold her views (even if they do not dare speak them aloud). They will vote, perhaps in larger numbers because of their irrational beliefs and this is what is truly horrific.
It’s too easy to wonder aloud, “Who are these babbling idiots and where do they come from? How can they exist in a modern society?!” The truth is that they’re much more common than you think. They have shown their power before many times and I fear for the same come November…
maybe what i should have said to her was
No, moron, my response wasn’t to “they only way to lose weight is to eat less and exercise more”, it was to your ridiculous argument that “losing body fat is about calories” BECAUSE you will weight less over time if you don’t eat anything — that is simply a result of the law of conservation of mass and energy, and says nothing about “losing fat”. You might as well have said “losing fat is about fat”, or “losing fat is about less fat”, or some other pointless trite uncontroversial observation that shows no grasp of the issues being discussed. And even at a trite level, the claim of the woman in the supermarket is wrong: you can lose weight by eating less and exercising no more, or by exercising more and eating no less — duh. You can even lose weight by eating less and exercising less, or by eating more and exercising more — just look at Michael Phelps or Lance Armstrong. What is necessary is calories in > calories out, but as Sven said, “That conceptual simplicity masks an extremely complex web of physiological and psychological interactions”. If you don’t understand that then you’re a blithering cretin.
make myself appear like some aggressive, psychopathic, self righteous little fuck in public
Oh boo hoo hoo. That’s right, I am aggressive, and I’m self righteous because I’m not a whiny little ignoramus like yourself.
jesus that was fucking dumb
Make that “What is necessary is calories out > calories in”, of course.
One of the things that the simpletons don’t seem to be able to comprehend is the complexity of measuring those. It isn’t just “exercise” that determines caloric expenditure, and not everything put into your mouth is used — like with the simpletons, a lot comes out as shit.
sadly, there are millions of attractive and (semi) well-spoken individuals who hold her views
As well as those who think they are so different from this woman but too stupid to understand the difference between cause and description — the sort of person who does the rough equivalent of mistaking the inverse square law for a theory of gravity.
BTW, babies couldn’t grow if it weren’t for calories in > calories out, but that doesn’t make them obese, morons.
tm: a cretin is someone suffering from hypothyroidism – it is not a synonym for “idiot”
Do you lack access to a dictionary with more than one definition? One compiled in the past, say, 200 years?
By the way, I wonder what 18th-century French Christians called Jews with a thyroid deficiency.
tm: a cretin is someone suffering from hypothyroidism – it is not a synnonym for “idiot”
dictionary.com: a stupid, obtuse, or mentally defective person.
Like you. Shall we also check the thesaurus, moron?