It’s been a long day for me, and now I get to cap it off with another presidential debate. This could be awful. I’m just hoping that McCain is feeling desperate and will do something that’s bug-eyed crazy to change the status of the election. Go ahead, say what you think in the comments.
McCain brought up the “overhead projector” again! He really is an anti-science loon.
After claiming that Obama was running a negative campaign, McCain than tried to defend the ugly attempt to tar Obama by association with Ayers. Hypocrite alert!
My final opinion: McCain didn’t blow up as I hoped, making it a somewhat boring debate. Instead, McCain spent the whole hour and a half being creepy — I don’t want another president who makes me want to gag every time his face appears on TV.
McCain also seemed to lie incessantly. The claim that Obama has been negatively campaigning coming out of 100%-negative-McCain was a low point for him. I don’t trust him a bit.
DRINK!
Oh, I’ve got wine bottle on emergency standby. First laugh: “The Freddy Mae”. . .
I have a bottle of J. Lohr… I can’t play drinking games tonight, it’s too delicious.
Just a bottle of general-purpose debate beer (or two) for me. After the last 3 debates, I’m convinced that any attempt at a drinking game will lead to a liver transplant.
I have some Bailey’s…gonna see if I can finish the whole bottle using “maverick” and “my friends”.
Joe the Plumber
WTF?
I’ve got a bottle of vodka – I’m going to go drink that instead of watching an old guy farting about trying to look clever and failing.
McCain seems discombobulated. He’s trying to slam Obama on small business taxes, but is speaking in half sentences. Obama looks smooth and confident, as usual.
Joe the Plumber, WTF indeed!
Eeehhhh, what about-a me?
Taxes are an issue? They’re plating games about who will pay for the FIRST trillion.
In South Florida I have a bottle of Capt. Morgan.
DRINK
I wonder how Mr Joe The Plumber feels now, with his ucoming 20 days of fame
Ireland is currently in a recession… Kind of a bad example there, Johnny.
Jesus Christ am I glad I’m not a plumber!
Sorry. Can’t drink since I’m on pain medication…
Then again, I could pop a Vicodin when you guys take a… wait a minute… That would be unequal.
Better make it two.
[/kidding]
“During the Depression era, we had…”
Bad choice of words there Sen. McCain. lol
Irrelevant, but annoying: McCain pronounces the word “values” as if it were “vay-yews.” Drives me fuckin’ nuts.
C-Span is showing this with a split screen. McCain not looking too good when he thinks the camera is off him.
I’m listening on NPR. Is it really live, or are they playing the tape of the last debate? Utterly disappointing to hear the almost exact same speeches over and over again. Tuning off…
damn projector again!!!
F-ing projector. Paging Phil Plait. Phil Plait to the white courtesy phone.
Too much buttin’-in, Mr. Moderator. Needs to Shuddup.
There he goes blasting Planetariums again! My God, this man hates science. Education is NOT Pork!
Irrelevant but annoying II: “I know how to save bee-yuns of dollars.”
Thanks for pointing out the C-span split screen Litch. Way more fun.
I wish Obama would set him straight on that “overhead projector” already. Get him on not supporting science.
Who’s plumber Joe anyway?
earmark – Drink!
earmark – Drink!
earmark – Drink!
aermark – Dirnk!
eramrak – Drnki/
Op – Share prices on hatchets and scalpels are going up tomorrow morning.
Nice jab at Fox News.
Overhead projector? Again? WTF?!!
In the Navy he studied in a planetarium and KNOWS that planetarium projection systems are not a high school projector. He’s lying. THE BAD ASTRONOMER pointed it out!!!
@#27 Plumber Joe is an attempt to sound in connection with the common man.
Is McCain on medication? Why is he incapable of completing a sentence?
Tough campaign… what an excuse. Put the blame on the one you’re smearing. Geesh!
James
Awwww McCain’s feelings were hurt. :(
McCain is lying on national TV. Wow!
@#32
Now he’s taking cues from Palin!!
DRINK.
Screw the undecided opinion polls. CNN should be running a lie detector line instead!!!
What is McCain’s obsession with this town hall meeting thing?
In Wisconsin, 100% of McCain ads run were negative as opposed to Obama’s approx. 33%.
At work unable to listen or watch….
Will read the comments !
McCain is running a positive ad, where?
I have not seen anything positive out of the McCain camp.
McCain isn’t wearing a flag pin. That does it, I’m not voting for him.
McCain’s got the scars to prove it:
Has anybody noticed that Obama IS wearing a flag pin, and McCain is NOT???
Is “Joe the Plumber” the new drinking game?
Liar. The fact is that he vetoed a bill on stem cell research in the name of Pro-Life causes. I can’t believe he would say that on national TV with a straight face.
I almost burst down to tears when McCain mentioned how hurt he was about segregationist negative comments
I am now anti-Joe-the-Plumber.
Plumber Joe is the brother of Mike, the light tech who fixes the planetarium’s projector. DRINK!
McCain says Obama has run false ads saying he does not support stem cell research.
Well, you don’t support embryonic stem cell research, THE MOST POTENT FORM OF STEM CELL RESEARCH.
Haven’t been following the campaign much, have you?
An attack ad on an issue? WTF?
Joe again. Man, his business is gonna skyrocket.
Wow. He actually mentioned the “kill him” and “terrorist” shouts. Didn’t expect that.
Holy shit! Obama just had to tell McCain to let him finish talking.
McCain is acting like a freakin’ child.
“Is McCain on medication?” – Chayanov, #33
He probably borrowed some drugs from his wife’s stash which she stole from her “charitable” foundation.
How stupid does McCain think we are? Maybe Joe the Plumber will buy your crap, but most of us know you’re a freakin’ LIAR!
McCain – I stand up for the bigots who come to my rallies!
Will he stop interrupting Obama? I mean, seriously, Sen. Obama has not interrupted him or been anything but polite. McCain keeps interrupting.
Season FINALE of Project Runway on Bravo
@#38 Who can be undecided at this point? He’s grasping at straws.
Terrorist! How dare Obama a symbol that promotes violence against civilians worldwide?!?
So, racists are patriots now????
You sir may have just won the internet.
So, McCain’s going to repudiate all the vitriol and threats Palin instigates?
“overhead projector” AGAIN!! This geezer mccain really doesn’t like science!!
Joe the Plumber comes up again! I bet he’ll will be in the early show tomorrow morning!!
DRINK!!!
But McCain doesn’t care about old, washed up terrorists. So why does he keep bringing it up?
@#54
No, he’s just senile.
I see a commercial, juxtaposing McCain’s support of the good people who show up at his campaigns… with the youtube videos that Obama specifically mentioned–the “kill him” and “terrorist” shouts.
What’s with all this “Joe the plumber” stuff? Joe the plumber makes a lot of moola! I support a Joe the plumber tax!
Oh God! Acorn is going to destroy American Democracy. Um… what about the stealing of the election in Florida? What about the swift boating in 2004? If anyone is out to destroy American Democracy, it’s the wackaloon religious nuts that support McCain and can’t stomach the idea of Obama in office because he’s “One of them.”
Voter registration fraud. NOT voter fraud.
Ayers!
NIKD!R…
Ayrs – that took long to show up – Drink!
Hah.
Just shot down Ayers connection, AND the ACORN ‘scandal’
LMAO
Now is McCain going to defend his association with Charles Keating?
If it’s not the point about Errs, why do you keep mentioning new things about it? You’re being a hypocrite on national TV IN THE SAME BREATH!
Obama just destroyed Mccain.
Mccain’s reply was that he didn’t want to raise taxes?
McCain is doing an actual Gish Gallop.
Scranton – Drink!
Dueling Veep-justifications?
Steady….
The only plumber I know is Super Mario.
Why would Biden be a better president than Palin? Too easy!
Joe Beiden vs. Caribou Barbie?!?!?!????
Too funny
Uh-oh… Obama’s talking about Biden, and I hope he brings up Palin and her breaking Alaska State ethics law.
I feel like I’m watching a dog fight in Atlanta!
I can’t wait to hear why McCain thinks Palin would be a better VP than Biden. She has better hair?
#83: But Palin’s a maverick! *wink*
You know, the Keating point is a good one. Obama is showing real class by not bringing that up. He could NAIL McCain with it and yet, he chooses to focus more on the issues than on McCain’s past associations.
Role model for women?
A country full of Carabou Barbies? Let me out of here.
Pallin is a role model – LOLROTF
Biden>Palin. It’s just impossible to debate.
My friends, I can fix the Plumber Joe mystery, I know how to fix it. My friends, you know? Ok? DRINK!
McCain on Palin: ‘bresh of freth air’ indeed.
Palin is a role model of the worst kind. And her husband’s pretty tough too!
Why in the fuck is McPain so convinced that being a traitor to your own party is something to brag about (even if it were true)?? Look how much good it’s done Joe LIEberman!
BTW, a shout-out to Alaska’s First Dude?? WTF?
“Bresh of freath air”
*facepalm*
Yeah, yeah he mispoke and it really doesn’t have to do with his competency, but it makes him sound stupid.
Also, I wish Obama could attack Palin without the sexism being screamed.
Right John. Role model? Reformer? Given money back (Bridge to Nowhere).
KEG STAND.
I don’t know about you folks, but when it comes to a President I don’t want a guy I’d be comfortable having a beer with, I want someone who makes me look like a friggin’ idiot – and I’m a fairly smart guy.
Wow. Pathetic.
BTW, EFCA:
http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/voiceatwork/efca/
cockamaimy (sp?) really? Who still says that?
He’s qualified but he’s always wrong??
Yes! Address the negatives right to McCain’s face! Not smearing, but actually talk about the attacks.
John’s got the deer in the headlight’s look. Then attack, but I’m about the economy. Wow! Holy talking points Batman!
Insight about running mates: This should be a slam dunk. How to defend Palin as possible President? Role model, reformer? Corruption? Have people not heard about the investigation?
Obama’s response to Palin, taking on the issues instead of attacking her person. Nice.
James
Is McCain’s response to *every* question going to be “Obama’s going to raise taxes”?
Now what does beign the mom of a kid with Down Syndrome have with havign some sort of expertise on autism? Hint to McCain: they are not the same.
Sorry abotu any typos, I sprained my wrist and I’m not goign to try and fix them tonight.
Obama shot down McLame’s appeal to emotion very nicely, I thought.
For me, wanting a president I can have a beer with and one who would make me feel like a friggin’ idiot are one and the same.
Every time energy comes up, McCain rants off `wind! Solar! Tidal! Nuke-ular! Etc!` It’s like a parade of technologies and does nothing but fills airtime. I’ve started drinking each time he does.
McCain is so confused – erratic – that he can barely talk straight.
It’s beginning to sound like Carl Sagan vs. Porky Pig.
NIXON!!!!!!!!
Eliminate dependence on oil?! Crazy.
@#97. I’d really, really like to see Hillary and Sarah go at it. It wouldn’t lase 2 minutes.
Kel, now that you mention it, I’d feel pretty comfortable draining a jar with Obama…
#108: Agreed. McCain never explains how he’s going to utilize these technologies, or how he’s going to invest in them without increasing spending.
Nice. Obama’s look when McCain started going on about eloquence is best summed up as “WTF”.
But… but… CLINTON!!!
I’m watching this debate this now and McCain is a lying fuckwit. He’d do anything to win. Sell his mother to a crack dealer if he had to. What a prick.
McCain just shot himself in the foot by endorsing Free Trade so throughly. Not a popular idea right about now. Even if I like it myself.
I just love the “I have to run negative adds, because Obama would not do 25 town hall meetings” (not an exact quote).
It’s second to “Obama will redistribute Joe the plumber’s wealth” (not exact). Obama has stated several times he will not be taking the plumber’s wealth to redistribute it in the first place.
Oh! “We can off shore drill now.” Really?? That’s news to the DoE and everyone else.
Agricultural machinery to Venezuela and Columbia — is John McCain a Banana Republican?
Did he really say “I am a free traitor”?
Oh goodie. Columbia is going to bail us out. And how is that war on drugs going?
Who is Joe the Plumber?
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/15/who-is-joe-the-plumber/
Did you see McCain when Obama said he understood?
He rolled his eyes and looked like a complete asshole. I’m thinking that we see might that clip again in the same way we saw “that one”
Also, McCain totally ignored the 3% vs. 25% argument. He sounded horribly uninformed.
What I find interesting…
Remember when Obama was attacked on the internet for not wearing a flag pin on his lapel? Look who isn’t wearing one today.
Is anyone else just busting up laughing every time McNonSequitur opens his mouth?
@#120: I thought that exactly. :p Columbia is going so well! That’s why we’re only two decades into the war on drugs.
Is it just me, or has McCain almost never looked at the camera?
McCain has a look as if steam will start going out of his ears soon!! Why was he looking down so much while Obama was speaking? Does he need a potty break!?!
Oh, I’m so translating the Latin American reports of this.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/10/08/mccains-planetariophobia/
There’s the link for the Badastronomer entry about McCain’s planetaria bashing.
Well, Obama certainly is. Audibly. And rightly so.
Hang it up John, it’s over.
Is it just me, or is McCain’s head swelling up?
I /am/ slightly tired of Obama saying `Let’s have our cake and eat it too!` Show a spine, chief!
Obama said keep your choice of doctor…does anyone on an HMO have that many choices? I never have.
Interesting strategy of Obama’s, talking to the camera when he lays out his plans. The Ohio undecideds turning the dials really seem to react positively to it, especially the women. Then again, they seem to be reponding positively to just about everything Obama’s saying. The men are a lot more all over the place.
Joe the Plumber!! Drink!!
Jebus, but McCain is clueless. We already have pretty much everything in his health plan — walk-in clinics? Seriously?
I just love the “I have to run negative adds, because Obama would not do 25 town hall meetings” (not an exact quote).
It’s second to “Obama will redistribute Joe the plumber’s wealth” (not exact). Obama has stated several times he will not be taking the plumber’s wealth to redistribute it in the first place.
Oh! “We can off shore drill now.” Really?? That’s news to the DoE and everyone else.
I /am/ slightly tired of Obama saying `Let’s have our cake and eat it too!` Show a spine, chief!
Also. Joe the plumber again? DRINK!
McCain’s continuing smirk is not quite as disturbing as W’s, but it’s annoying.
I didn’t have the stomach to watch the debate. Instead I sat down and wrote a blog post about a student who tried to hoax a classmate just before an exam.
I was about to say it was totally unrelated, but now it occurs to me that quite a lot of hoaxing is probably going on during the “debate”.
Although I’m not watching it, I have my predictions, which are as good as an TV pundit’s (maybe better!): McCain will be judged as having put on his best and most aggressive performance yet, even if he didn’t land a single blow. The debate will be judged a tie. But that means McCain lost, since a tie is a losing proposition for someone so far behind.
I just want this to be over so that I can start complaining about how President Obama isn’t living up to my expectations (which is what I’d much rather be doing than expressing my fears that McCain’s latest heart attack will make Palin president).
He said my friends!
Drink!
(Anyone pass out yet)?
Dude. McCain wants to create nuclear pants (yes, pants).
Not cool.
McCain won’t look in the camera. He looks like he won’t look the American public in the eye.
McCain’s lipstick is out of whack.
pwn!!
ouch…
I can’t help feeling so terribly *sorry* for McCain. Watching him struggle and falter is not at all satisfying. I would have voted for McCain in 2000, had he won the nomination. This campaign has just been beyond sad.
Is it me, or does McMaverick looks like if he’s going to explode every time Obama speaks?
Wow. Does McCain really not want to win this election?
We’re talking to Joe the Plumber directly now?
Bet Joe regrets the day he even thought about going to a campaign function. Bet he’s drinking right now.
“Hey, Joe, you’re rich!” Gag!
Man these guys are huge hendrix fans
Oh noes, Obama wants to take Plumber Joe’s money and give it to the Sixpack Joe!
Transplants as part of coverage are a BAD thing????????????
If I here “Joe Plummer” one more time I’m going to scream.
I’m voting for Senator Government… with pride!
McCain is acting like a child. Gads! I’m almost embarrassed for the guy.
Will Joe’s rehab be covered under McCain’s ‘plan’?
“Senator O’Government”???? Funny – he doesn’t look Irish…
McCain’s Health Care = We’ll pay for the coffin when you die of pneumonia because you sleep on a park bench in the winter after losing your house to a bank that was bailed out by the government with your tax dollars.
Obama’s laugh and smile look authentic. McSwine’s looks…feral.
#156: You could make a drinking game out of McCain’s verbal fumbling tonight. Is he taking diction lessons from Palin?
Considering his age, you would think Mccain wouldn’t call himself a Federalist
I think that Joe Plumber is skunked drunk about now, so no point in talking to him.
#139: Yeah, McCain’s smirk is driving me nuts too. You can almost hear him thinking “Gotcha!” every time he lets off what he thinks is a real zinger.
I feel sorry for McCain only in a very minor way. Yes, it’s terrible to see this happen to him. But don’t ever forget who he represents, and what he and his party have done.
I feel only as sorry for him as I would for a 12-year-old bully who got knocked down by a 9-year-old tired of being pushed around — 5 percent empathy, 95 percent satisfaction.
Is Joe the Plumber going to get his own show like Bob the Builder?
How could Obama have voted for Justice Breyer?
“Elections have consequences.” -McCain in response the the president’s right to appoint anyone qualified to the court.
Don’t congressional elections have consequences as well? Wasn’t Obama representing his constituents?
Obama should just slap Senator McCain with a glove and challenge him to a duel of Constitutional knowledge.
What the hell man? I just said I wanted to go into business for myself. My boss is a dick.
Dom,
As an Obama constituent, HELL YES he was representing us!
McCain: “Extreme environmentalists will tell you that nuclear power has to be safe.” Right, McSchmuck, those extreme environmentalists and their wacky ideas… everyone knows that the Joe plumbers of the world love to drink toxic waste.
In other news, the judiciary seems to have declared that God is not omnipotent.
Awww. joetheplumber.com is already taken. So disappointing. Although that site will see huge waves of traffic in the next few days, I suspect.
McSwine: “We have to change the culture of America.” Sounds like our friends at the Dishonesty Institute.
JOE!! How did you come to have so much influence over both campaigns?!
I’m watching this now on NYT site and McCain is a fucking asshole. Lying, manipulating asshole. Who can believe him? The same ones who believed Bush, I guess.
Why couldn’t I have been aborted? My phone’s ringing off the hook, and people are out on my front lawn with torches and pitchforks now.
I mean omniscient.
Health of the mother is extreme?
WTF?
McCain” “We need to change the culture of America”
Translation: We need to make everyone believe what I believe.
Say it ain’t so, Joe… *wink*
I sat down and had a beer with them. Trust me. You don’t want a president who can drink a beer with you. Did anyone ever have a good idea after a few beers?
I think that McCain has finally jumped the shark.
Did I hear wrong earlier, or did McCain say a) we need to secure our economy by developing energy independence and then say b) we should eliminate tariffs on imported sugar based ethanol?
I’m not sure which song McCain is using for his campaign’s theme, but I’ve found the perfect one.
“I never wanted to know
Never wanted to see
I wasted my time till time wasted me
Never wanted to go
Always wanted to stay
Cause the person I am are the parts that I play
So I play and I plan
And hope and I scheme
To the lure of a night
Filled with unfinished dreams
And I’m holding on tight
To a world gone astray
As they charge me for years
I can no longer pay”
Hey, Joe – Where you goin’ with that gun o’ yours?
if those air-quotes around “health of the mother” aren’t continuously looping on YouTube within the half-hour, then I’m going to be very disappointed in this country.
and a science education question! I think I just came…
What’s up with McCain’s weird use of “air quotes?” Man, that’s just creepy. His claw-like attempts at these gestures come across as “I’ll get you and your little dog too!”
Ohhh I can’t wait to see this on SNL. That deer in headlights look is SO going to be there.
Of the 4 debates, this one has been the best in actually getting them talking and addressing issues. McCain has hit the anti-eloquence at least twice. We’ve already had 8 years of that – I don’t think that’s going to help him.
James
My friends, I know how to fix schools, of course I’ll fix schools, of course it’s important BUT senator Obama wants to raise taxes!
ARGH! That smirk! It makes me tense with anger! Also: is McCain wearing some kind of back brace that prevents him from moving his arms? He’s some kind of antiquated robot, isn’t he? I’m totally sure of it.
Amen to #186
Education problems? Stop spending money on those newfangled overhead projectors and mimeograph machines.
Sweet Jebus – I’ve lost count of every right-wing paranoid delusion / conspiracy theory McCain has brought up. He finally dragged out that old chestnut about Obama voting against saving the life of fetuses born viable, or whatever the hell that was about, and I knew this was the time Obama was going to finally put that whole nonsense to rest.
If I didn’t know better, I would swear McCain was bringing up all these points just so Obama could shoot them down.
“Is McCain on medication?” – Chayanov, #33
He probably borrowed some drugs from his wife’s stash which she stole from her “charitable” foundation.
Nope. Why you think that he has someone from the meth capital of Alaska on the ticket.
McSwine comes out for teachers not needing certification? WTF?!
I LOVE to hearing McCain say he is pro-life, to complain about “health of the mother can mean anything”, and “We need to change the culture of America” — the more he tows that line, the more everyone sees he is an authentic right-wingnut! Remember the days when people mistakenly thought he was not so conservative? It’s nice to see him disavow everyone so succinctly this close to the election.
McCain cares more about the rights of unborn nonpersons than he does the health and rights of the mother. He makes me fucking sick.
@111 I voted for McCain a couple of times, before he did a 180. He came across as a guy that you’d like to have a beer with. A jar? Please guy, Europe wants the Bush thing out, and you’re saying you want it in?
I wa sout to class. But seriously if I see Mccain smirk again , I am going to throw up. And the red wine aint helping keep away the creepy feeling.
My mum, who is visiting, wonders “Is McCain, serious about this, he does not seem so”. And that is why one must support Obama.
McCain looks like he’s thinking about IHOP.
Really. Obama is impressing the hell out of me with how detailed he’s being while McCain produces nothing but vapid sound bytes.
Just listening to the two is remarkable.
From the battlefield to the classroom… GREAT idea, John. Whoever said we need a *rolleyes* smiley the other day, I agree.
What about being a grunt qualifies someone to teach?
“Troops to teachers”?? And he wants to remove those troublesome tests to make sure the soldiers are suited to teaching?
I don’t think that being in the military is automatic qualification for teaching students about anything other than being in the military.
I refuse to pay for religious schooling for children! Vouchers are not the answer.
#196
NO KIDDING !!!
He makes me want to PUKE!!!!!!
If these guys think that science and math education is so important, why did neither want to participate in Science Debate 2008?
Im in Texas, I soon may not have a choice
Did McCain just say that Sarah Palin knows more about Autism, but her kid has Downs, are the two the same???
What does any of this have to do with autism? Is he saying our voucher-free education system is causing autism?!?
Sweet jebus, McCain. You’re just fucking pathetic now.
#191
I think the weird arm movements are due to the injuries he received when his plane was shot down near Hanoi.
I believe both arms were broken and they weren’t properly reset.
Did mcCain just say he wants to have town hall meetings where parents bring autistic children?
What the hell is he talking about?
He is losing his mind on national television.
Voucher this, insane dickhead.
OK kiddies, today were going to learn how to field strip an M16. And then were going to throw some grenades. What a fucking dumb ass. McCain looks drunk, he sure acts that way.
hey, McNeurologist–
for the second time, autism != Down syndrome.
HTH.
I bet one keg McCain we’ll shed a tear on the final statement
Transparency again. Sarah Palin knows.
I would say drink, but we’re just about out of Capt. Morgan.
That sucks radioactive rocks.
did You Hear McCain Snort? haha!
Closing remarks thank yous: McCain couldn’t look him in the eyes or say his name AGAIN! Let’s see if he shakes his hand later.
McCain just crashed and burned. It’s over. <- Period
#202
I’m Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, your senior drill instructor. From now on you will speak only when spoken to, and the first and the last word out of your filthy sewers will be “Sir.” Do you maggots understand that?
Pollcrashing, anyone?
http://www.polls.newsvine.com/_question/2008/10/15/2003100-who-is-winning-the-debate
Can the long line of McCains be told to stop “serving” We have enough problems.
If McCain interrupts Obama during his final comment, he’s toast.
Gunnery Sgt.: Try not to stereotype people who serve in the military. Don’t believe everything you see on TV.
As someone with a family member who has Downs, it is nothing like autism. They’re completely different problems with different treatments/educational approaches….why can’t McCain understand this?
Laughing at one’s own joke does not make said joke funny.
Did You Hear McCain Snort? haha!
Another 9/11 commission?
Stop spending? Based on what he’s been saying?
Bill the Cat would say PBTTHHHH.
Drink one last time.
HAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bill the plumber!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DRINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No knockouts – no temper tantrums.
McSwine had a well-rehearsed exit speech with little semantic content.
Obama tied McSwine to the Rethuglican’s last eight years.
Obama wins.
It’s gotten sad watching McCain. I used to respect this man before he became such a pandering, misguided, duplicitous fuckwit.
That “Good Job, Good Job, Good Job” McPain Just gave Obama just looked so strained. He is such a fucking douchebag.
But if he doesn’t, who will?
Well, if I was an American I would say that Obama’s final statement just clinched my vote. I mean, he would have had it already but he really seemed sincere. Really.
“Joe the Plumber replaces Joe the Six Pack”!!!!!!
Whoahhhhhhhhhhhhh.!!!!!!!!!!
McCain’s condescending comment about women’s health pissed me off. The guy has zero compassion.
As someone who is not only in the military but was watching this debate with his fellow airmen, we had to laugh at the “troops to teachers” suggestion. Sorry to tell you, Arthur (#225), but there are some real dumbasses in the military, officer and enlisted alike, and I would INSIST on some kind of teaching qualification test should such a program go forward.
@210: thanks for the info. I’m glad I didn’t stick my foot further down my mouth in retrospect. The “GOOD JOB GOOD JOB GOOD JOB” during the final handshake seemed a little programmed (re: coached), though, IMO. ;)
Even if he did get the mental deficiency correct, how does having a 6-month old with Down’s make her an expert?
Is it me or are the McCains a scary looking couple? Get off my lawn or I’ll send my wife out.
Did McCain just say that Sarah Palin knows more about Autism, but her kid has Downs, are the two the same???
Uh, no. I’ve got an Asperger’s child, which is on the Autistic spectrum. Nothing to do with Downs. Downs is a chromosomal abnormality, and Autism is not so clear cut genetically. Autistic kids have what are considered normal genotype. not so Downs. I’ve got two good friends with Downs kids. They are about as similar to Autistic kids as flat feet to a hair lip. Nothing at all the same.
Neither situation is easy to deal with as a parent, but some Autistic kid, and in particular Asperger’s kids like mine, can lead more normal adult lives – they have often got very enhanced skills that win them good jobs in fields like computer programming, but I know of no Downs kids who function alone in society. The children are very different, and how they function is different. This is from the trenches.
“You changed man, you used to be cool”
“Im still cool. I’m a maverick, like Tom Cruise”
“Tom Cruise is nuts”
“I can get jiggy with things”
“Sure you can”
“I’m still cool”
“No, you’ve changed man”
I think that “good job, good job, good job!” from McCain might just have been him in shock.
I’m going to replay the bit about autism for my mom and watch her explode. She’s a special ed teacher of autistic students AND has a foster sister with Down Syndrome.
A few thoughts on the fifteen minutes or so I heard:
-To those people who weren’t actually paying attention to what was said, McCain might win on style. His presentation, though cliched and pretty much unrelentingly lacking in anything we can’t find in a gazillion conservative blogs and/or drunk guys on a bar stool, is pretty slick. Obama is working on the fly and it shows — he sounds like a college professor.
-Despite that, in the part of the debate I listened to, at least twice McCain said something so obviously contradictory and/or illogical that it made my brain jump the track.
-Despite being rather dry, Obama came off as someone who’s very quick on the draw with counterclaims, as well as just adapting to new lines of conversation well overall.
I’d give it to Obama on substance, but it seems to have been pretty meh.
What I heard was a Communist trying to sound Moderate, and a Liberal trying to sound Republican.
And the Communist won.
Is the whole Autism thing a code for McCain to reach the AntiVax crowd.
Boy, Obama sure pissed off the NEA. Firing bad teachers?
Best thing out of his mouth tonight.
Another reason to vote Obama:
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2008/10/a-vote-for-obam.html
Sir Craig #237:
I absolutely agree with you that military people going into a teaching career shouldn’t get a pass on the qualifications. And there are absolutely some dumbasses in the military. I guess my perspective is a little skewed because I served in the Navy in the Nuclear program, which kind of draws the more intelligent sort. I’m definitely considering the Troops to Teachers program, and I hope I’m not a dumbass.
Sarah Palin could have been invented by Monty Python, says John Cleese’
Here’s the story.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/sarahpalin/3194405/Sarah-Palin-could-have-been-invented-by-Monty-Python-says-John-Cleese.html
McCain was too angry too often, and Obama wasn’t as smooth as usual.
I thought that as far as substance goes, this was the best debate.
This was far and away, McCains best debate, but if we grade on substance, it was another win for Obama.
We’ll see what America thinks.
I’m glad I didn’t make “joe” my drinking word for the night or I wouldn’t be able to get up and make it to class tomorrow. My students would probably be thrilled though.
I think McCain was smoking plumbers crack.
Soledad O’Brien is a moron.
If these guys think that science and math education is so important, why did neither want to participate in Science Debate 2008?
Um, http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php?id=42
earmark = Drink!
Even on Fox’s poll Obama is up! http://elections.foxnews.com/index.html.
“Please, God, even though I don’t believe in you, could you just this once give me this one election…”
My final opinion: McCain didn’t blow up as I hoped, making it a somewhat boring debate. Instead, McCain spent the whole hour and a half being creepy
LOL! That’s exactly what I thought. He seems to be going out of his way to appear almost as an old guy with Alzheimer’s. I’m serious. The creepy forced glint of anger in his eyes, the tension in his mouth, his gestures, his befuddled old man walk at the end of the debate. The guy makes me feel uptight. I am so goddamn tired of that
I don’t want any more emotionalism and gut feelings and acting; I want a smart person with the intellect to dissect a problem and deal with it.
CNN independant panel says another obama win.
Out of about 30 or so 3 people decided tonight that they were voting Obama. No on said they were willing to vote McCain.
About 10 of them thought McCain won the debate to 15 for Obama.
McPain summed it up best. “This country needs a new direction”.
THat is why we need President Barack Obama.
Soledad O’Brien is a moron.
You must feel good about keenly zeroing in on the most relevant and important issue.
I think McCain did well for about the first 30 minutes and he lost my vote even further during the rest of the debate (the rolling-wild eyes didn’t help).
I’m rather sad because I have liked John McCain for quite a while and I saw a duplicitous that had me yelling at the TV.
Time to move on. Obama because the past is history.
Final note: I cannot believe how (as s.v. pointed out in #236) lacking in compassion McCain appears to be. Perhaps people need to *reconsider* war as the first alternative, breeding like rats a good idea, and replacing reason and logic with superstition as the best move in a survival situation.
Vote nah to a third term!
Go Obama!
McCain, Palin, Dinosaurs, om my!
Replace “Obama” with “Intelligent Design” and “McCain” with “evolution” in this thread and you’d have a creationist thread over at Uncommon Descent.
Polls are rolling in.
Obama with a clean sweep!!!
Three for three!!
Hillary gives a classy substantive answer to Wolf Blitzer’s inane, shallow question about her feelings about not being the one up there in the debate.
CNN instant poll shows McCain losing badly … again. And they’re saying that the other network polls show the same thing.
While I still applaud Obama for his ability to stick to the facts and not stooping to the “He’s a terrorist sympathizer!” tactics of the McCain/Palin ticket, I wish he had been a bit more aggressive tonight in a few instances.
For example, when both candidates were asked what they thought of their opponents’ running mates, why didn’t he mention that Sarah Palin was just found guilty of unethical behavior as Governor of Alaska? Despite all her reality-ignoring protestations, the findings of the investigation said that she had engaged in unethical behavior; the only caveat was that it wasn’t a criminal offense. Still unethical as all hell, just not legally reprehensible.
In my opinion, Obama could have used this to his advantage in presenting Palin for the poor VP candidate she clearly is- and that’s not even considering her lack of intelligence or her religious views. McCain didn’t hesitate to use lies and distortion in an attempt to paint Joe Biden as an unreliable candidate; Obama had a great opportunity to use facts to do the same, which would have helped knock yet another hole in this ridiculous image of Sarah Palin as the “folksy, trustworthy new redeemer of the Republican Party”.
I didn’t watch because McCain causes a 50+ point rise in my blood pressure when I start hearing him blither. And he and his wife give me the creeps. She’s been tightened at least one too many times.
His ads here in Missouri are offensive to the nth degree and I just change the channel. I have only seen two Obama ads, and they were both positive, issues-oriented and to the point, no nastiness, no lies, just straight issues-oriented advertisements.
Arthur and Sir Craig (and any other veterans or active military personnel): thank you for your service.
Replace “Obama” with “Intelligent Design” and “McCain” with “evolution” in this thread and you’d have a creationist thread over at Uncommon Descent.
Afraid not, troll. But congratulations on emulating John McCain’s strategy for success.
You must feel good about keenly zeroing in on the most relevant and important issue.
Well, I don’t consider my observation quite that significant; I was merely venting about the miserable job she was doing leading the post-debate undecided voter panel discussion. “Who thought Mccain won? Am I correct to assume that the rest of you think Obama won?” No. That’s a really stupid question.
the miserable job she was doing
I guess you missed the other two debates, as well as all her other performances.
why didn’t he mention that Sarah Palin was just found guilty of unethical behavior as Governor of Alaska?
Because it doesn’t matter to peoples’ daily lives.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/15/politics/horserace/entry4525171.shtml
That would have been a major tactical mistake to attack Palin further. Facts are irrelevant to Palin’s particular brand of mouthbreathers. The pitchfork/torch-bearing mob just needs the feeblest (un)righteous excuse to get medieval on Obama’s ass. Palin will self implode because of her own vacuousness, while Obama takes the high road.
My favorite part was after Obama accuses McCain of avoiding the issues by negative campaigning, to wit McCain replied that Obama is negative campaigning too — and as an example of Obama’s “negative” campaign, McCain sites Obama’s attack on the McCain Health Care plan. If double-talk were a virtue, McCain could be saint.
That would have been a major tactical mistake to attack Palin further.
It’s Obama campaign strategy that he not discuss Palin at all — except to say her children are off limits.
I think Obama might catch some flak for spending most of the time McCain was talking looking down and chuckling. I mean, much of the time I couldn’t imagine doing much else myself, but it might have looked too ‘superior’.
CNN instant poll shows McCain losing badly … again. And they’re saying that the other network polls show the same thing.
If Obama had said nothing and had drool running out of his mouth, the MSM would still have picked him as the winner.
But he did well.
pollcrash Fox news
http://elections.foxnews.com/
This debate is not going to change anyone’s mind. It’s still going to depend on how many undecideds cannot bring themselves to vote for a black guy once they are in the voting booth. Polls be damned.
HUGE Daily Kos poll list:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/15/192634/88/920/631664
I come from a long line of Cranky Old Men. Long decades from now, I fully intend to become a Cranky Old Man and have striven to emulate their ways. But we do not need a Cranky Old Man running this country. My friends, John Mc Cain is one goddamn Cranky Old Man.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/15/192634/88/920/631664
Democrats think they can win elections this way.
No wait! I forgot about Acorn.
http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/14/1544574.aspx
Obama up 4.1 and McCain down 5.2 on Intrade betting.
David Gergen, asked what McCain should do now, comes up empty … then says McCain should try to salvage downticket races and his honor. I’d say it’s too late for those either.
If Obama had said nothing and had drool running out of his mouth, the MSM would still have picked him as the winner.
You do have drool running out of your mouth, moron.
Ssshhh. You’re going to break his bubble of self-delusion.
I forgot about Acorn.
No, you didn’t, you lying asshole. But your dishonesty and the dishonesty of your rethuglican party will no longer win anything.
You have a point Eric?
The first one’s funny. The second one only impacts the number of registered voters, but not the election results.
Considering Gergen said it, that’s got to be pretty hard for McCain to hear. That’s a big time ouch.
Hey, say it ain’t so, Joe. I was watching and refreshing repeatedly on the Fox poll page, and guess what? The total number of votes wasn’t rising steadily as one would expect; it was going up, and then dropping back down, over and over. And at the same time, Obama’s lead was slowly eroding. You don’t think the fine folks at fox are trying to steal an election, do you? Come on, now. Republicans steal an election? They’re the Law And Order people, aren’t they? Mom and Apple Pie people, aren’t they?
I’ve been in a coma for 10 years. Have I missed something, here?
I’ve been one of Naders Raiders for years. I’ve voted for him every time he’s run – except when I voted for Carter.
The sad thing is folks, I’ve never voted for a winner. My vote is the death knell to any candidate.
But I have to say, I support Obamas abortion stance, and his support of science and education. Of course as an almost senior citizen I support his health care plan.
I couldn’t tell if McCain was eye blinking ‘fuck you’ in Morris Code.
I was going to vote 3rd party (as Obama will certainly win NY) but McCain has me convinced.
To vote for Obama.
McCain’s strawman arguments and factual errors made my choice. He’s clueless.
Wow, has the Fox poll been Pharyngulated already? 67% say Obama won.
That was quick. Or else even Fox viewers have finally clued in.
No wait! I forgot about Acorn.
http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/14/1544574.aspx
Because you’re too stupid to read your own citations, I’ll read it out for you:
The fact is that ACORN is required by law to hand in all registration forms, regardless of their validity. ACORN has done so, and has also alerted election officials about those which are bogus — alerts which election officials have repeatedly ignored.
I guess you missed the other two debates, as well as all her other performances.
I did indeed miss the first debate. I saw the second debate, and I watched her subsequent debate wrap-up, which was, as recollection serves, better than tonight’s (it was the panel that had me exasperated in that instance), though not remarkable. I thought my comment in this fast-flowing thread would be understood to reflect my opinion of what I was witnessing at the moment, and would not be interpreted as my general assessment of her ability. For those interested in the latter, I’m sure she performs, on balance, much better than I would had I her job, but tonight’s post-debate segment was rather painful.
She’s on again now; let’s see how it goes.
Dirty old men are more fun than cranky ones anyway (thinking of George Burns smoking cigars and cracking jokes at 100).
Of course we haven’t heard the real scoop on the debate poop until we hear from Scott from Oregon.
would not be interpreted as my general assessment of her ability
Um, you said she’s a moron, not that she was flubbing. Own your own opinions, don’t lie about them after the fact in a lame attempt to defend yourself.
Ah, the Washington Times. It’s good to know that there’s one newspaper that is proud to be unfair and unbalanced:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/
Headline:
“McCain Unrelenting in Final Debate”
1st paragraph:
“Sen. John McCain defiantly declared his independence from President Bush in the final debate of the presidential campaign Wednesday as he fired off attack after attack on Democratic opponent Sen. Barack Obama’s qualifications, his associations and his economic policies that he denounced as class warfare. ”
The rest of the article is a hoot as well!
J. D.
Voter registration fraud does not equal voter fraud you dumb fucking fool.
Jeeze…
Considering Gergen said it, that’s got to be pretty hard for McCain to hear.
Actually, Gergen has been consistently critical of McCain and his sleazy campaign, but his comment tonight had finality, much like Tim Russert’s comment about Clinton.
Voter registration fraud does not equal voter fraud you dumb fucking fool.
It’s irrelevant in any case, as it has nothing to do with Obama, the Democratic Party, or even the ACORN organization — much as the rethuglicans try to make it such.
People who are horrified by Bill Ayers should be 100 times more horrified by George W. Bush.
Obama associated with Ayers?
Well, McCain associates with a war criminal, torture proponent, and mass murderer.
Bill Ayers:
The real problem with most of the discussion about violence is that the powerful, the rulers, have what appears to be a monopoly on violence and they use it not just occasionally, but daily, constantly.
Wasn’t talking to you, TM. Sorry if that came across as such. But, yes. You are right.
It is irrelevant, but the Conservatives’ approach to this is beyond freakin’ tedious and annoying. I spent a couple of hours earlier tonight explaining to my neo-con brother how this ACORN nonsense is nothing more than a pathetically manufactured ignorant outrage, and the poor dupes who think it has any bearing whatsoever on this election are just that: dumb fucking dupes.
J. D. Mack, I think you are on the wrong website. Washington Times is owned by the Unification Church founder Sun Myung Moon.
So let’s drink! Drink!
This town is so great!
Drink! Drink!
It’s never too late
To drink! Drink!
To no big surprise
But what words rhyme
With “buried alive”?
Jerimiah Wright — at least Obama knew him
Bill Ayers — shared a couple of political arena’s with him?
Acorn — WTF? Just because Acorn is Liberal?
The decaying process of Repiglican “smear by association” campaign is beginning to look a bit like Six-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon!
Voter fraud is a perpless crime, alleged only by those engaged in electoral fraud. Mickey Mouse has been registered to vote many times, but has never shown up to vote in any precinct, despite all the calculated hissy fits and vapors staged by the GOP. How many factions will the GOP split into after Nov. 4?
Patricia, don’t mention him! He’s like Candlejack! Say his name, and he’ll appea
The Intrade difference has narrowed a little bit, with Obama now up 3.3 and McCain down 4.4. Most interesting is that the bid/ask spreads are very narrow, just one tick, indicating that the gains and losses are on high volume. And that means it’s a more reliable estimator of the political betting crowd’s assessment of the outcome.
I was so furious about McCain’s abortion stance. This day and age having to deal with a debate over whether or not the government would allow me to protect my health because of a religiously-based idea about when “life” begins is just unreal.
is McCain wearing some kind of back brace that prevents him from moving his arms?
It’s a war injury, with complications that led to severe arthritis in his shoulders.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9b0ce0d9123ef936a35751c1a96f958260
-jcr
McCain is a sacrificial candidate.
Romney and the Huckster dropped out because they want to be president someday, and they knew that whoever got the Republican nomination this time was going to end up next to Walter Mondale on a milk carton. All they were after in the primary season was name recognition for the next round in 2012.
-jcr
#312- Son – You are probably right!
I can be out kicking the hell out of my old Harley and Scot will probably try to sneak through.
He so totally sucks at explaining the whole deal to my pullets.
Here I was thinking they both dropped out because they simply didn’t get enough support in the primaries. Didn’t Huckabee only leave when it became a mathematical certainty for McCain?
What pissed me off is that the plumber dude is making $250k a year. Last science job I had was $40k/year…and people like to talk about the big bucks scientists are getting.
What pissed me off is that the plumber dude is making $250k a year. Last science job I had was $40k/year…
When your next peer-reviewed paper explains how to squeeze money out of a turd, riches can be yours, as well.
I think next time, the Rethuglicans should run “Plumber – Six-pack 2012”, since that seems to be where they get all their economic ideas from.
#309: They Might Be Giants, insight into everything.
I realize this is somewhat off-topic (not about the debate) but I believe it is still relevant.
Hayden Panettiere talks about getting fucked by John McCain… (serious!)
Wasn’t talking to you, TM. Sorry if that came across as such.
I knew that. No, it didn’t.
It is irrelevant, but the Conservatives’ approach to this is beyond freakin’ tedious and annoying. I spent a couple of hours earlier tonight explaining to my neo-con brother how this ACORN nonsense is nothing more than a pathetically manufactured ignorant outrage, and the poor dupes who think it has any bearing whatsoever on this election are just that: dumb fucking dupes.
Yup.
Here I was thinking they both dropped out because they simply didn’t get enough support in the primaries. Didn’t Huckabee only leave when it became a mathematical certainty for McCain?
Kel, it’s best to ignore the jcr loon.
I was so furious about McCain’s abortion stance. This day and age having to deal with a debate over whether or not the government would allow me to protect my health because of a religiously-based idea about when “life” begins is just unreal.
You must be an extremist to care about your health or the health of anyone bearing a precious little clump of cells.
@ #320 Ken Cope.
HAHAHAHAHAH! Beautiful and timely.
“Of course we haven’t heard the real scoop on the debate poop until we hear from Scott from Oregon.”
Just a couple of things–
Neither candidate even mentioned the complicit nature of the Federal Reserve with our current economic maladies. McCain wants to take taxes from Americans and give them to homeowners to cover their housing losses, but in no way wants to “spread the wealth around”… He wants to cut 20 billion in astronomy projectors and museums for Woodstock boomers, and then spend three hundred million making sure banks don’t have losses for making bad bets and lots of money on mortgage loans…
Obama likes to brag about being in the pocket of Warren Buffet and an old federal reserve guy, so he’ll never point the finger in their direction, nor have an open inquiry into the Federal Reserve itself, with hearings on how the unelected body steered the economic ship right into the shoals, (and the bailout of its members by taxpayers)… Buffet is poised to make a good godly sum on all of this bailing out of main street, and his puppet Obama will in no way step on the toes of the big boys while he “looks out for the little guy”…
Neither candidate even mentioned the HUGE sums of money America spends just cruising ships around and maintaining bases in order to maintain its superior … uh… broke ass standing in the world. 20% folks. Of everything they force you to pay with the threat of jailtime… That’s AFTER they pay the interests on the 10 trillion they’ve borrowed.
No mention of FISA. No mention of the Patriot Act. Homeland Security is a foregone conclusion. Neither candidate bothered to mention the Constitution in any meaningful way, nor mentioned that the Bill of Rights was a shredded bit of antiquated idealism not necessary for the people of America…
Bend over folks. Let the corn cob find the corn hole and blame it all on yourselves.
It’s gonna get rough in there…
Just a couple of things–
leave to Scott not to get the satire in the request for his exposition.
Let the corn cob find the corn hole and blame it all on yourselves.
Well, I guess with all your experience shoving your head so far up your own ass, you can finally claim to have relevant experience to support something you are ranting about.
It’s gonna get rough in there…
I’d recommend a colonoscopy; you’re likely seeing polyps, Scott.
Neither outlined a plan which would positively affect the average single male in a meaningful manner. Neither appeared to offer, for example, a way to get more men inserting their penises into appropriately available vaginas.
As far as I can tell, there is no essential difference between the two candidates. In either case, men will continue to have difficultly finding a sufficient amount of willing vaginas into which their penises may be buried.
One wonders why such an important issue continues to be ignored by the mainstream media. Clearly there is an anti-men bias present in the media.
I still can’t believe that it’s taken this long for anyone to see through the John McCain myth.
McCain has always been George W. Bush, Navy style, a son of privilege who was a fuckup but thought he was entitled to the same privileges his forebears had earned.
McCain has always been a crank.
McCain has always been selfish, arrogant and mean-spirited.
McCain has always been a conservative so conservative that he made Reagan and Bush I look liberal. Did anyone before this election really look at this guy’s voting record? You name the archconservative position on any issue, he voted that way. I just loved when people were so surprised that he voted for torture, like he would have any compassion or ethics. He’s a Republican. They don’t do compassion and ethics unless it will embarrass a Democrat. Speaking of…
McCain has always played dirty, and has always been a partisan hack. Ask Arizona Dems about the time he sabotaged the US Senate testimony of newly-appointed AZ governor Rose Mofford, eight days into her term. He bragged about it to a reporter, and said that he never missed an opportunity to embarrass a Democrat.
McCain has always cared only about making himself and his other rich Republican friends richer. He doesn’t give a damn about anyone else. He will sell out anybody to protect the rich. See KEATING.
I never understand why anybody thought this guy was anything but yet another selfish, arrogant Republican.
There were several things that McCain said repeatedly that affected me like nails being scraped across a chalkboard. Here are the one’s that spring immediately to mind:
1. McCain would
misrepresentlie about Obama’s tax, health, and spending plans. Obama would correct him. McCain would then act like he hadn’t heard Obama and kept repeating themispresentationslies. It’s like he was totally oblivious to Obama’s explanations.2. McCain kept referring to those who are pro-choice as “pro-abortion.”
3. McCain kept touting Palin as an advocate for kids with special needs.
What the heck did Palin do for kids with special needs before she had one of her own, other than slash funding for programs for kids with disabilities? Oh, I guess kids with disabilities only become truly “special” when you have one of your own.
And how does Palin’s having an infant with Downs syndrome make her an expert on autism?! Or even Downs syndrome?
Palin’s just starting on a long journey with her baby. And, as I suspect with so many things, Palin simply doesn’t know how much she doesn’t know about parenting a child with special needs.
And I would have loved to hear McCain explain how he was going to improve special education and find the cause of autism by hacking funding for relevant programs with his cost-cutting hatchet.
4. McCain sulked about John Lewis’s comments comparing his and Palin’s rallies to those of George Wallace and complained that Obama hadn’t repudiated Lewis’ comments sufficently, but I must’ve missed McCain’s repudiation of Palin’s
distorted claimlie that Obama “pals around with terrorists.”And as others have mentioned: McCain’s constant, but totally unjustified smirking was totally creepy.
I enjoyed the debate. Of course, I paired it with a nice (i.e. cheap) Southeastern Australian Shiraz followed up with some Harp, so that may have helped…
Overall, I saw nothing that blew my mind, but McCain truly came across as a cranky old man. Seriously, I was concerned about one or two of his veins at a couple points. And Obama? Does nothing rattle that man? He took unfair insinuations, straightforward demagoguery, and outright lies with as genuine a smile as I would imagine from a close family member. That’s something I want in a president: calm, clear-headed consideration. Not vein-busting anger.
Didn’t Huckabee only leave when it became a mathematical certainty for McCain?
He was just going through the motions by then.
-jcr
What pissed me off is that the plumber dude is making $250k a year.
Why should that bother you? He got his money from people who gave it to him voluntarily in exchange for his services.
Last science job I had was $40k/year
If you want to make more money, then figure out what you can do that pays better. Nobody owes you a job at whatever salary you think you’re worth.
-jcr
the jcr loon.
Well TM, I see you’ve mellowed a bit while you were away. Perhaps someday, you might even learn the rudiments of polite conversation.
-jcr
Azkyroth wrote:
How can it be perfect when I picked a better one?
See here:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/09/my-john-mccain-music.html
He will sell out anybody to protect the rich. See KEATING.
BTW, did you hear that Obama voted to rob the taxpayers of something over 800 billion dollars to give it to a bunch of incompetent speculators, including several organizations who have given him large campaign contributions?
See BAILOUT.
McCain and Obama are both bought and paid for. Quit fooling yourself.
-jcr
jcr,
//did you hear that Obama voted to rob the taxpayers of something over 800 billion dollars to give it to a bunch of incompetent speculators//
links,data to back your claim up? You know,this sciencey stuff……
//McCain and Obama are both bought and paid for//
They are american politicians.
I’ll take Obama over the senile fool with PTSD anytime.
Clinteas,
Obama voted for the bailout both times it came up in the Senate.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14196.html
I’ll take Obama over the senile fool with PTSD anytime.
Oh, he’s going to win. Just don’t get your hopes up for any substantial improvements in either economic or foreign policy on his watch.
-jcr
Well, at least McCain got Joe the Plumber’s vote by mentioning him 20 times.
jcr,
sorry should have realized you were referring to the bailout,fair enough.
I guess only time will tell if your judgement of it is correct.
//Just don’t get your hopes up for any substantial improvements in either economic or foreign policy on his watch.//
I disagree.I saw Obama’s speech in Germany in front of 200.000 people,and if you are not totally blind and deaf you would know that the whole world is “praying”for Obama to win this election.
The U.S.might have been rendered third rate in science and economy and education,but they still have the biggest military,and therefore retain enough relevance on the world stage for this to matter to people overseas.
John C. Randolph wrote:
I’m not. He’s inherited quite a mess and he’s a little too calm about it. If you can stay calm, while all around you is chaos…then you probably haven’t completely understood the seriousness of the situation.
I don’t buy this assertion for a second. Coolness and thoughtfulness during crisis isn’t cause for concern here. Obama seems to have a real pragmatic side and I think he has a good chance of moving the country in the right direction on many fronts.
The largest impediment will be partisanship. I hate this two party system and how entrenched each side is. I want serious discussion on how to best deal with the large issues of our day, and the campaign just doesn’t provide an opportunity for that. I’m hoping the Obama administration is going to bring the best and brightest (unlike that of Bush) to Washington to work for and lead this country out of the messes it’s in.
WTF??? We already know the causes of autism!!! McCain is just a very old man stringing words together without knowing or caring what they mean.
Autism is like SZ, a disease with a strong genetic disposition with a hundred or so genes involved. This is a finding thanks to federal funding and the efforts of many pointy headed intellectuals who gasp! horrors! know the earth is round and 4.5 billion years old.
The guy is clearly too old and confused to be president. That his support is still running around 40% just shows that this many people have a death wish and brains the size of walnuts. But we already knew that.
It’s all a question of TIMING ! Obama has shown consistently, from the very begining of his campaign, that he can tune his emotional tonality to the moment.
Today he needs to convince undecided voters, so he has to appear above all resolute, calm, and statesmanlike, convince them that he can be president. That’s his main goal, that’s what he achieved in this debate. If he had done anything else, it would have been stupid.
So, I don’t think you can judge his understanding of the situation from his emotional response in this debate, at least he didn’t say, like McCain one month ago, that the fundamentals of the economy were sound.
So sure, there’s always a risk that he might misjudge the seriousness of the situation, but I’m quite sure that the risk is much higher with McCain. Because he just doesn’t get it. He thinks this is just one of those little recessions and we’re going to get out of it like with the previous ones, cut taxes, cut spending etc… But Obama knows that in these times, he’s going to have no choice than to spend like mad, huge public infrastructure, science and thechnology projects, that’s the only way to relaunch the economy.
But,but…..itz dah vaccines !!!
//WTF??? We already know the causes of autism!!!//
I would be a bit careful with a statement like that,we might have an idea,we might be starting to understand some of the causative changes and genetic mechanisms involved,but I dont think that anyone actually really knows what causes autism yet.
The thing is, jcr, that that is only one of the examples about McCain that could be cited that he cares about the rich a lot more than he does the poor.
Let’s take a look, shall we?
Voted for HR 8 to phase out the estate tax over a ten year period.
Voted for HR 4297, to retain reduced capital gains taxes.
Voted against (S 256 amendment), raising the minimum wage to $7.25 within 2 years. Did vote for the amendment raising it, after 18 months, to $6.25. What a guy.
Voted against S Amdt 3071 to S Con Res 83 to increase funding for Title I grants and reduce debt by closing corporate tax loopholes.
Voted against HR 3108, which would have provided more funding for Pell grants.
Voted against HR 976, reauthorization of the Children’s Health Insurance Program, providing health care to needy children.
Voted against S Amdt 2213 to HR 3010 to increase the maximum Federal Pell Grant award by $200 to $4,250.
And that’s just a few examples of his votes that make it clear whose side he’s on.
Some moments are golden. For months I have been working on the resident female to wean her to Obama’s side. This morniong she brought up the “overhead projector” and asked what that was about. When I told hber, she remembered having been IN that planetarium as a child. Sealed: One more Obama vote in Florida. (Pats self on back.)
Funniest thing in the whole thread:
“I couldn’t tell if McCain was eye blinking ‘fuck you’ in Morris Code.”
Thanks, Patricia #294
:-D
Actually when told that it was mathematically impossible for him to win he said:
A month later he dropped out. Maybe he is still hoping that in the next 3 weeks McCain dies, Palin is shot by Cheney while moose hunting, the GOP then asks him to fill in and he somehow defeats Obama.
My money’d be on Palin blowing Cheney away. She’s got the cold, dead eyes of a killer.
jcr,
Well, the only way to do it in a clean way would have been to wipe out entrely the shareholders of these failed institutions (they were afterall bankrupt, all of them), and the govt should have nationalized all of them, 100% and gotten the entire equity for the same amount.
But that would have been “socialism”. I doubt Obama would have had any problem with it, but the republicans, Paulson, Bush ? No way. This stupid compromise is the result of America’s nonsensical dogmatic rejection of the concept of mixed economy.
Not Obama’s fault.
Chris #86,
“I feel like I’m watching a dog fight in Atlanta!”
Reminds me of this
McCain” “We need to change the culture of America”
Oh, I do so agree with him there. But certainly not in the way that McCain means.
That story wasn’t about some plumber who makes $250K/year; it was about someone who got nicknamed “Joe the Plumber” who wanted to buy some company with an income of $250K/year.
I’d be surprised if any plumber ever earned $250K/year at the dollar’s current valuation.
As to John Randolph’s statements about voluntary exchange, I’d like to see him run a store where all payment is on the honor system. If it’s such a great idea, then he’ll put Wal-Mart out of business.
Yeah, Gawd’s eldest, Republican Jesus, made a transcript of the debate over at my place last night. I think he was dead-on.
“He thinks this is just one of those little recessions and we’re going to get out of it like with the previous ones, cut taxes, cut spending etc… But Obama knows that in these times, he’s going to have no choice than to spend like mad, huge public infrastructure, science and thechnology projects, that’s the only way to relaunch the economy.”
I see. Sort of like spending your way into the Weimar Republic…
Dude. 10.3 trillion in debt. 90 trillion in unfunded liabilities. The only way to spend is to print, and with the rejection of the dollar on the horizon, that would mean an increase in wheelbarrow sales and poor people…
SfO,
you’re confusing things.
First, the national debt is gong to go down, because economic activity is going to go down, households, businesses, and especially the shadow banking system (hedge funds, broker-dealers, etc..) is going to take much less credit. That you can be sure of.
Second, budget deficit. In these times of crisis, as Roosevelt demonstrated, it is the time to invest on large public works projects. It’s the new deal again. That will create jobs and will relaunch the econnomy, otherwise, you’re in deap shit. So if you need to balance the deficit, you’re going to have to raise taxes. Which in practice will mean not raising them for 95% of the households, but raising them on the top 5%, and on large businesses and corporations.
And let’s not fixing the $ against the Euro and all major currencies, which WILL be necessary. A new Bretton Woods will be necessary in this period.
I think you don’t seem to realise the level of destruction this credit bubble and this era of irresponsible deregulation has caused on the US and world economy. Oh, but a few did milk the cow very well thank you very much during those bonanza years from 1980 to 2006. They’ve got the money safe. Now is the time the world has to payback, and rebuild.
That’s with the Friedmanian ideals of Libertarianism, no governement intervention, deregulation, perfect competition, free markets, “economic freedom”. R.I.P
But the USA has done it before. Same problem, same remedies. Let’s just hope we can avoid facism and civil war.
If you want to make more money, then figure out what you can do that pays better. Nobody owes you a job at whatever salary you think you’re worth.
more moronic spewings from the unthinking.
for a guy who is obviously somewhat intelligent, you really seem tremendously hung up on this “free market” bullshit.
Is it guilt?
it certainly can’t be based on any rational thought process.
Well TM, I see you’ve mellowed a bit while you were away. Perhaps someday, you might even learn the rudiments of polite conversation.
how is that relevant to the fact that he’s correct?
You ARE a loon.
No, you didn’t, you lying asshole. But your dishonesty and the dishonesty of your rethuglican party will no longer win anything.
Fuck you TM. With a AIDS infected monkey dick.
I’m sure TM appreciates the love – considering your party affiliation and previous testimony, that might actually be one of your few honest statements.
Of course, monkeys don’t get AIDS. Oops. Your statement’s kind of like a local Republican celebrating “liberal fascism” with a Benito Mussolini T-shirt. (I guess he couldn’t find his “Hitler was a liberal” T-shirt in the closet.) You really should try not to parade your stupidity in public so openly.
I noticed a few things last night. I don’t know if it was just because he was sitting so close to Obama and/or the lighting was bad, but McCain looked really pale. Sickly pale. His skin looked as white as his hair. Also, McCain came across as rather uptight and uncomfortable to me. He reminded me of how my son acts when he’s really constipated. And what’s with all the blinking? Both the McCains seem really uptight & stiff, come to think of it.
Like others, I don’t see why McCain feels justified in running negative personal attack ads just because Obama didn’t agree to a bunch of town hall type debates. That line of reasoning is a non-sequitur.
Obama did circumvent a few questions. McCain is obviously pissed off that Obama didn’t take the federal election funding. I wish Obama would’ve answered that question. He could’ve said something like “you know what John? I changed my mind. I decided it would be better for me to go this route instead. Deal with it.” There’s nothing wrong with someone changing their strategy if they decide a different strategy will work better. In my book that’s the mark of an intelligent person.
No one said what Joe the Plumber thought once Obama explained what his policies actually are as opposed to the misrepresentations Joe was told by the McCain camp.
Norman said: “If you can stay calm, while all around you is chaos…then you probably haven’t completely understood the seriousness of the situation.”
That’s one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read/heard. One of the most important qualities a leader can have IMO is the ability to stay calm in a crisis. Staying calm and keeping a cool head is the way to make rational decisions. When people get all emotional about problems, they waste a lot of time running around freaking out and they rarely make sound decisions. You have to be able to push the emotions aside and look at all the facts. You determine what needs to be done and do it.
I worked for a long time in a high stress environment where my team was responsible for some systems that were mission critical to a very large organization. One of the most important qualities I could find and encourage in an employee was an ability to stay calm and level headed during a crisis when the pressure was really turned on.
Of course, monkeys don’t get AIDS.
True. But after giving TM a good time, that monkey dick would have the viral material on its surface.
Dear Hapless.
As if you know my party affiliation .
Your affiliation, I think might be “twit”.
Fuck you TM. With a AIDS infected monkey dick.
that sounds like a threat to me.
though why Eric had an infected monkey dick grafted on to himself is a puzzler.
replace even smaller equipment?
or was it just defective?
regardless, I don’t think threatening to rape TM with it is going to do you any good, Eric.
…still holding that door open for you.
time for you to go.
1) Sorry, Joe Blow came up with that a while ago – you could at least insult me originally. You have more of a point than he used to have (in general), but you’re delusional. One out of two is…not so good.
2) Well, if you’re not a Republican shill, then the difference between that and your true affiliation is not enough to matter. Or you need to find a better quality of client (or cultivate better skills).
3) What party is “twit” exactly? Are they a Green Party sect I missed out on, or a Libertarian sect who’s writings I missed. Maybe Reform Party? Sorry, not a fan of the Little Buchananana. Thanks for playing.
Dear Fish.
Not so good at reading comprehension are you?
Not so good at reading comprehension are you?
you’d think with all the experience you have had with twisting other’s words, you’d get what I was doing there.
I gave you a modicum of wit. Too much, I know.
time for you to go.
Dear Fish;
No thank you.
Egad! PZ’s gonna need a #9 scoop shovel to clean the place up. I think Eric, Scott, and Silver should all go in the same cell together.
Look out Ichthyic! He’s gonna sick his god on you.
Trish;
I don’t need no stinking gods.
Patricia #373
You forgot Piltdown Man.
Don’t need no stinking brains, either, I think.
“whose” not “who’s” in #369/3. Doh.
Oh that’s right, Nerd of Redhead! I forgot ol’ Pilty the dungfish. He must have exhausted poor Nick Gotts & Holbach.
Stick your binky back in your mouth Eric.
Dear Hapless.
You got to have them brains before you do any thinking.
What exactly would you know about thinking, other than that it’s a liberal plot to subvert your innocent brain cells, or whatever the transmitters of Fox beamed into your head yesterday? You explaining thought is like Palin explaining integrity, or McCain explaining, well, anything.
So Eric, just what is it you do? I mean, beyond exhibiting traits of Borderline Personality Disorder
Its funny to me to see Democrats that really think they are the only people in America with any intelligence. If anyone disagrees with any little bit of bullshit they “believe”, that person is accused of being stupid, being troll, lying, and so forth.
Trish.. Bite someone else.
I doubt if you’re old enough for me to bite Eric.
EV
In order to have an argument, one must take a contrary position.
And by any standard there are many here with “personality disorders”, including myself.
Futher more, responding to attack is to be expected.
You seem to confuse the realization that Democrats have no monopoly on brains with the realization that you don’t have them. I’m pretty sure that George Will and Dennis Miller have brains, for example, though I disagree with them. Other Republicans may be smart, but I can’t trust what they say, so I can’t tell whether they are intelligent or not. You, on the other hand, ape Republican talking points without any ability to engage in reasoned discussion. You haven’t shown any intelligence, so not many people see fit to credit you with any.
You aren’t stupid because you’re Republican. You’re stupid because you can’t say anything rational that someone hasn’t spoonfed you, you can’t argue for what you believe, and your repartee was uncool in the second grade. Aren’t Republicans the party of personal responsibility? I guess that only applies to other people’s flaws.
Hap
Number uno: I am Not a Republician.
Number two oh: Where do you get all your rational facts?
The Daily Kos?
Number three oh: Try fourth grade.
No thank you.
yes, i got that you refused my gift of thinking you posses a modicum of wit.
you don’t need to actively flaunt both your ignorance and your lack of wit at the same time.
*plonk*
Number uno: I am Not a Republician.
number one:
nobody cares.
repeat ad nauseum.
*plonk*
And by any standard there are many here with “personality disorders”, including myself.
ah, now we’re getting somewhere.
so what will you admit to?
NPD? OCD? ADHD?
any of the above, combined with gross ignorance and a desire for self mutilation would explain your posts.
Well he is a fourth grader after all.
Dear dead fish smell:
For you, I would think Delusions of grandeur.
And anyone who calls themself “Truth Machine” , well he sure stripped a gear, blew a diode, or broke a cog.
truth machine,
glad always to see your comments: most or many of which with which I agree; those with which I don’t: always cause me to pause & re-evaluate why
#387:
1) In that case you need to get better clients. Across from the plasma donation clinic might be a good place to start, though I’m pretty sure the homeless guys under the bridge can give you some good places as well. Your conscience will probably thank you once you get the taste out of your mouth.
2) Facts aren’t rational – people are (or are not). Arguments are logical or not. Having not worried about such details before, it’s understandable that you wouldn’t be familiar with them. I’m not certain you would know what my logical or factual limitations were, since I haven’t made enough arguments requiring them here, and if I did, you probably wouldn’t get them anyway. Probably the reason no one who actually knows anything here is talking to you as well (well, anymore – TM and I. actually know something, but cleaning the litter box mess gets unexciting after the third time around, I guess).
3) I guess standards really have fallen with NCLB. Oh well.
For you, I would think Delusions of grandeur.
glad you have a natural recognition of how much smarter everyone else here is than yourself, but you don’t have to attribute that to just me.
again, everyone here is smarter than yourself.
jcr loon: Perhaps someday, you might even learn the rudiments of polite conversation.
The last conversation I had with the loon involved numerous other posters all pointing out that complaining about being impolite was no substitute for telling the truth, acknowledging error, avoiding fallacies, and other elements of rational discourse that the loon routinely and rudely eschews.
I still can’t believe that it’s taken this long for anyone to see through the John McCain myth.
It’s irritating when people are so sloppy with their qualifiers. Many people saw through the McCain myth long ago — so much for “anyone”. And surely we can’t expect everyone to see through it. So what do you really mean to say? Perhaps that you still can’t believe that, after all this time, so few people have seen through the myth. But you can’t really mean that, since you surely believe your own claims. So how about “I have trouble understanding why, after all this time, so few people have seen through the John McCain myth”. In which case someone might help out by offering explanations, in terms of human psychology, media coverage, etc. as to why that might be.
If you can stay calm, while all around you is chaos…then you probably haven’t completely understood the seriousness of the situation.
Norman, you can be such an idiot. Obama always displays a calm demeanor in public — it’s a combination of temperament and training. That hardly implies that he hasn’t completely understood the seriousness of anything.
“No, you didn’t, you lying asshole. But your dishonesty and the dishonesty of your rethuglican party will no longer win anything.”
Fuck you TM. With a AIDS infected monkey dick.
I’ll take that as an affirmation of my statement. Possibly an actionable one, though.
BTW, your drivel would be slightly more comprehensible if you would learn to quote.
time for you to go.
Dear Fish;
No thank you.
Dear Eric: it’s not up to you; see http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/plonk.php
truth machine,
glad always to see your comments: most or many of which with which I agree; those with which I don’t: always cause me to pause & re-evaluate why
Thank you kindly, cyan, for such a high compliment.
My Oh My, this poor thread has been atkinsonified !
Dear “machine”;
If you tkink my angry comment it ” actionable”, you are dumber than dirt. Do you think this is Canada?
BTW Its not up to you either. Its up to Dr. Myers.
Dear “machine”;
If you tkink my angry comment is ” actionable”, you are dumber than dirt. Do you think this is Canada?
BTW Its not up to you either. Its up to Dr. Myers
Um, you said she’s a moron, not that she was flubbing.
Um, right. As I’ve already pointed out, for the sake of those whom might have thought otherwise, my initial comment was a bit offhand hyperbole.
Own your own opinions
Of course. What’s my opinion, again?
don’t lie about them after the fact in a lame attempt to defend yourself.
Terrific advice; I’ll be sure I never do.