Events are off to a great start at the RNC: Amy Goodman, host of the TV/radio program Democracy Now! and a well-known activist for peace and human rights, has been arrested in St Paul by our power-mad authoritarian servants of the Rethuglican Party. Apparently, she was defending two radio producers who were being arrested on the charge of “suspicion of rioting”, which sounds dubious right there. She has been charged with “conspiracy to incite a riot”.
She’s a well-known peace activist, people. Non-violence and all that. And now the cops are claiming that she is working to incite riots? Be honest: the police are just trying to silence democratic voices.
Glenn Greenwald has more updates, and Lindsay Beyerstein reports on more harassment. You can protest by calling Chris Rider of Mayor Coleman’s office (651-266-8535) or by calling the Ramsey County Jail (651-266-9350, ext. 0).
And more:
By the way, the best place to find coverage of the police tactics in Minneapolis during the convention is a the Minnesota Independent.
Whenever this sort of nonsense happens, I really wonder what the individual cops think of arresting hippies and grandmas. I mean, it’s one thing for a single cop or administrator to go on a power trip like this, but for large groups of them to simultaneously crack down on harmless peaceniks? Makes you wonder what they’ve been told by their boss(es). I wish the newspaper would cover that angle.
Good job, Ministry of Peace.
According to Glenn Greenwald, Amy has been released, though we’re still waiting to hear about the two producers (who could be held for up to 36 hours, according to the Washington Post).
Also, watch this and weep:
Woman holding out flower to riot police.
She is swiftly pepper sprayed.
Ah, America!
Well, this is what society gets for the limited oversight we provide of police forces.
Notice how they oppose videotaping their activities, like interrogations, but insist that those of us who question them are allied with the current “booger” man. Notice how cops at the bottom rarely suffer when the areas they patrol fall apart. Notice how many police forces require a mere GED to become a cop, make 50,000 a year with full benefits, when no other employer on the planet would consider the same.
Our tax money goes to pay these people to ‘Serve and Protect’ us. Just when the hell did they forget who they work for?
I wonder if this would have happened if Jesse Ventura was still running the show. Welcome to 1984.
I’m no Republican fanboy (note to any Americans reading: if you fail to vote for Obama, you are evil) but I’m a bit alarmed that you’re eager to report on the suppression of anti-Republican protestors but didn’t have anything to say about the anti-Democrat protestors. Granted any friend of McCain is an enemy of humanity, but still… was there simply no news? Or were you still recovering from the Galapagos trip?
(I hope you don’t mind if go off on a tear here, but it’s a bit of a sore subject for me)
[Partially cross posted]
As a long time political protester, this is very very very unsurprising. After all, why do you think those Lawyers’ Guild folk (member since ’07) where there in the first place?
Hell, this is old (green) hat by now in Bush’s America. Since 2002, I’ve had machine guns pointed at me, been wiretapped by the Federal government (real quote from me at the time “Wow, look, guys! The transcripts the A.C.L.U. got have me in them! I’m a celebrity! . . . Hey, I don’t feel so good, all of a sudden.”), been followed by F.B.I., D.H.S., and other unnamed agents, and been called a “terrorist” in a court of law by a state prosecutor (because of a “conspiracy to commit a riot,” of course – those protest banners sure are riotous!), and now there’s not much that’ll surprise me anymore.
Glad to see other people realizing it. Maybe this time the authoritarians tipped their hands and overplayed the whole “dissent is unpatriotic” thing? Maybe Americans will realize what kind of monster has been created?
. . .
Well, probably not. Watch: a handful of teenaged self-described “anarchist” boys (always the boys!) have been throwing bricks at cops, and now everyone will just say “See! Those anti-Americans deserved the arrests!”
Sigh.
“suspicion of rioting” – gee, makes it sound so covert – hope nobody notices me rioting..
over here in Australia the gub’mint keeps sneaking through ever greater “emergency powers” for the poe-lise “but we promise not to use them unless we have to…just for conventions, papal visits, peaceful protests, ITS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!
I didn’t mention the thuggery at the DNC?
PZ’s been on it from the first.
Thuggery and ignorance, look out: he will call you out.
Also, as has been suggested before:
P.Z. Myers for president!
Is Minnesota trying to become as big of an embarrassment to this country as Florida?
I think these idiot police are the ones actively trying to incite a riot with bullshit tactics such as these. And, who knows, maybe that’s their intention.
Good night sweethearts!
I don’t think they even care if they find true criminals or terrorists. The point is to disrupt the protests and intimidate protestors and any coverage of the protests.
All of the charges will be thrown out anyway. Arrest and harass until the convention is over and then let them all go.
Disgusting.
Bing bing! You win a prize. Saw it quite a bit at the RNC in ’04.
In an attempt to be helpful, may I recommend the news website I’ve been using to keep up with what’s going on around the RNC: The Minnesota Independent
http://www.minnesotaindependent.com/
Hope you find it useful.
A form that can be used to “Contact Mayor Coleman” is here:
http://www.stpaul.gov/forms.asp?FID=69
Everyone please blog this arrest so that it will get national media coverage.
The video has only been seen 60K times.
“…make 50,000 a year with full benefits, when no other employer on the planet would consider the same.”
Congress gave 50 million for these conventions. The people arresting Amy are probably earning triple overtime, on your dime!
Get mad!
Oi! #11, as a Floridian I resent that…
Ah fuck it, I agree completely. At least we shot down the Stealth Creationism bill here. Louisiana wasn’t as lucky.
My favorite part about Florida law is that possession of less than 20 grams of marijuana can land you in prison. Second favorite part is our lax “execution by taser” right that the police so often exercise.
This is not unique to the Republicans. The same thing happened to protesters at the DNC (see: http://www.tuccille.com/blog/2008/08/denver-police-record-this.html). It is not the specific party, but rather the growing power and arrogance of authority that is to blame.
[more cross-posting]
More updates from the unstoppable Glenzilla:
The AP and Donna Brazile are involved. Maybe this will have consequences?
Well, the cops know that if they outrage enough people, they will get to use their batons and guns. These fuckers ache for the chance to beat on people, and it’s not just because they’re assholes; imagine being given instructions about possibly violent protesters, anarchists, and the need to protect the convention-goers from any unrest; now imagine getting all geared-up in super-future-cop regalia, complete with fancy “less-than-lethal” ass-kickery, and a whole lot of protection for yourself: I’m only imagining it, and I want to go bust heads. The training, and the application of unnesseccary gear is all a part of the situational indoctrination. Some of those cops are good guys, but after a few hours Hate, they are ready to respond to any imagined threat.
There’s a reason it’s called a “police riot”- it is planned and instigated by the police.
Is there any other video of this?
When I look at the beginning of the video I see what looks like Amy having crossed into the wrong area to confront the police, they ask her to leave, they ask her to leave again, a nice officer who would rather not have to arrest her tries to lawfully escort her out of the area, she resists leaving, at which point the officer knows that he can’t waste any more time dealing with this situation and she is lawfully arrested. If she and the others are charged she will have her day in court and charges will probably (I hope) be dropped.
There are many things that happen at these protests that appear heavy handed and outrageous, and it would have been nice if the police could have taken the time to listen to her complaint…but, as they say…I’m just saying….
“Is there any other video of this?”
Do you seriously want the police in this country to operate this way? You think what they did is acceptable?!
Cat’s Staff:
I won’t jump on you for it, because you do raise a valid point (viz crossing a “prohibited access line”), but the key point here is: Amy Goodman is a journalist with full press credentials prominently displayed. Not to mention a convention pass for floor access. She might as well have been, oh, Brian Williams as far as the law goes.
Also: check out the “woman with flower” video, posted above. How does that strike you as “appear(ing) heavy handed and outrageous”?
“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.”
Sinclair Lewis
Apt description of the GOP today.
George Bush’s America.
Just like China but without the tanks (yet).
Minnesota cops, you ought to be ashamed.
Homeland security at its finest. How much more needs to happen before the US is a full police state?
Unfortunately, Canada isn’t all that far behind. The RCMP has been over violent on a few similar occasions lately, too.
Funny, that. I know a few of the American protesters who were arrested in China during the Olympics (Students For A Free Tibet volunteers – I tend to give them a pass on the whole Tibetan Buddhism spiritual mumbo-jumbo thing, as they (the Free Tibet activists) are rather good folk), and let me tell you this: the U.S.A. is still leagues ahead of China in regards to free speech.
In the U.S. they’ll pepper spray you, handcuff you, lock you in a stinking, toxic garage for 72 hours, then make you deal with legal fees for the next five years.
In China (if you’re not lucky enough to have a U.S. passport and don’t look Tibetan), you’re in a prison camp for years. Years. If you’re not tortured and dissapeared.
We’re better than that. So far.
[Above defense of the U.S. does not extend to our detention and torture of foreigners with an Arabic or Muslim background, of course. In that regard, we’re no better than China.]
hje (#25):
I see you your Sinclair Lewis and raise you a Thomas Pynchon.
Against the Day (2006), p. 1076.
I think we all ought to be ashamed. We kind of allowed this to happen.
Cat’s Staff,
The video shows the two closest officers making no move or vocalizations to make her leave the area; there is a car into which she is backed up when it is clear that the officers (at the word “journalist”) are going to confront her (at this point, no motion she makes will be away from an officer); she seems to be asking, not the officer closest to her, but one further away, who I assume is the one in charge; she is exiting the area when the officer nearest her, as Amy is going without evident use of physical force by the officer (he is leading her out of the area with a light hold on her elbow), looks back at the presumed authority that Amy was attempting to talk to earlier, and asks “arrest her?”
It is only then that another officer declares that there is an inviolable zone.
Google is, in the hands of the police, the modern equivalent of SCMODs. (see Blues Brothers for reference)
Pretty nebulous charge. You mean the cops didn’t know whether they were rioting so they just arrested them anyway?
I can see how this is going. Someday soon people will be arrested for “Maybe thinking about rioting” or “Could be rioting someday” or “Might be rioting even though they are just standing there”.
George Orwell had a word for this. Thoughtcrime. As usual the truth is stranger than fiction.
Oh well, so what if we live in a police state? The Gulag Archipelago is alive and well, it just moved across the ocean to the USA.
“Party of Freedom” my ass.
It’s clear that these idiots want a police state, and this kind of activism just proves what we had already learned by living in the America of the Bush Administration.
Yeah, I know “Democrats are just as bad”, but I honestly don’t remember any raids on college student houses with machine guns, or the arrest of any prominent journalists.
This really does seem endemic to the GOP.
Like I said earlier, I was once officially charged with “conspiracy to commit rioting” (the charge was eventually dropped – in fact, the judge tossed it like a salad).
Doesn’t that sound familiar?
Wait.
Stop.
Three journalists were arrested without violating any laws (no, the police do not have legislative powers to declare magical “zones of no talking”) and I’m actually arguing about the specifics of one of them, as if it may, in some other universe, have been justified?
Fuck that.
It has to end.
I don’t know where the line lies, but this is pretty fucking close to crossing it.
At some point, violence against the police is not only justifiable, but correct.
I’m not saying that this is that point, but I have become tired of being told that, whatever violence is visited upon us, we must give the benefit of the doubt.
The question is, when?
What must they do before citizens realise that there may be a situation in which the authorities are outside their bounds, and only a display of outrage will cause them any introspection?
How many times must we listen to those who admonish us by saying “well, those violent protesters spoiled it for us all”, and not point out that some people being violent is not a valid excuse for cops just beating the living shit out of everyone they find in the general vicinity?
When will we change things?
And by “we”, I should make clear that I mean “other people”, since I’m a bit of a coward. The internet and all…
mumblemumble
Hey pz p head, read through the comments.
You have proven my earlier point quite succinctly.
Anyway, I’ve got to move on now. Before more “but there are bad people out there, so everyone should just be arrested before more bad things happen!” trolls show up here.
A thought experiment for you, pz p head: there are [fill in the blank] terrorists out there, who do bad things to good people. Should all [fill in the blank] people be immediately arrested without reason (what we call here in the U.S. “probable cause”) because they too are [fill in the blank], just like the terrorists?
Carry on, and thanks for the forum.
pz p head,
You are unaware of the definition of at least one of the words in the phrase “leftist anarchists”
You got off easy. Do you know what the penalty is for
“conspiracy to think about rioting maybe someday while sitting around doing nothing and watching TV” is?
@39
Autumn,
There are many sorts of anarchists, and a great many of them are leftists because they espouse socialism and group ownership of some kind. The anarcho-syndicalists/communists/mutualists/et cetera ought not to be confused with the (capitalist) market anarchists or the individualists.
Although this p head person is obviously an extra special sort of stupid, there is nothing wrong with labeling anarchists as leftists. I just wonder how he knows they are anarchists, and how they are the of socialist variety.
It’s so much better when this blog is dealing with facts and not using terms like “rethuglican”.
Figured I’d pop back to update:
Amy’s out, and gives an interview to SFGate (via the always reliable Glenzilla): link (under “Update VII”: couldn’t find a more direct link).
Apparently, the two producers have also been released.
This is inexcusable. I could even see her press pass since it was completely visible. There is no reason that this should have happened. It seems that in both the DNC and the RNC the police have over-stepped their bounds. This is obviously a case of catch and release. I hope both RNC and DNC arrests result in heavy fines and lawsuits against the respective police forces.
I’ve been confused all day. Is the new definition of “anarchist” “outside the two-party system?” Because I thought socialists were rather statist themselves, kind of like, um, neocons and such.
Also, looks like there is a market for someone to design some good, defensive safety gear for peaceful protestors such as “flower-girl.” Quick eye-rinse kits included.
And, I observe that terrorism works best where thuggish police responses can be counted upon. One brick, one Macy’s window, and soon a few hundred non-violent citizens, observers and passersby maced and/or incarcerated.
spgreenlaw,
I guess that you’re right about the specifics, but as someone living in the South (of the US), the term “leftist”, as it is so often casually thrown out, refers specifically to a centralized governmental body making the calls, not any sort of democratic agreement.
I doubt highly that Cat’s Staff was carefully considering the communal tendencies of the groups he was referring to; I assume that he was merely throwing in another “insulting” term.
I mean, come on, individual liberty and freedom are liberal in the philosophical sense, but how many libertarians shout about their “liberal philoshopy”?
Last time I checked, being a socialist wasn’t against the law.
@Capital Dan#30,
There is no “kind of”, we either did or we didn’t. We did. If you paid sales tax in Minnesota anytime in the last year, you did. If you paid federal taxes the last fiscal year, you probably freed up resources for those sales taxes to go to the police.
We didn’t allow it to happen. We paid for it out of pocket.
@42
Dean – Well, now I’m not gonna buy your gear for two reasons:
1. Spam
2. What would the proper term be for “rethuglican?” We’re not talking about Eisenhower here!
Actually, how many libertarians will admit that they would not have a single coherent political thought without the influence of the Anarchists?
How the hell did a group of ninteenth-century Russians end up creating our current political world-view?
Democracy be damned, peaceful protesters are almost invariably abused by police at the slightest provocation. It isn’t just in the USA — I’ve seen it here in Canada, and I would guess it is probably true in other “human-right-respecting” countries as well. If you go to such a protest, you are throwing the dice. That’s just the way it is.
A lesson I find bitterly ironic is one I learned from watching the handling of the Oka Crisis in Canada (back in the 1990’s). If you want the police to treat you with restraint and respect, make sure your group is large, not too peaceful, and most importantly (and Americans should already know this one) very well armed.
As a leftist anarchist let me ask if you’ve heard pf agents provocateurs? They were all the rage with the political squads back in the sixties. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they were back in style.
I suppose we should feel lucky that no ones been declared an ‘enemy combatant’ and disappeared into a military brig for s few years. Well at least no one we know of has been disappeared yet.
Autumn,
Yeah, I see where you’re coming from. I’ve gotten used to people depict anarchy as some sort of every man for himself chaos and that’s not really the case, so I tend to be a bit jumpy when the word is thrown about.
And this is fairly irrelevant to your point, but most of the libertarians I know pride themselves on being classical liberals and use the term frequently.
“Journalists are the eyes and ears, they are the watchdogs of democracy. Those eyes can’t be closed. The ears must be listening. And when they arrest people, they are stopping those who are a check and balance on power.”
– Amy Goodman, after her release
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=14&entry_id=29751
She is the greatest.
According to a Minnesotan friend of mine, one of the things Ventura did during his first days in office was to have the police lock down all evidence-taking devices held by the members of a protest — as in cell phones and cameras. Then he dressed up in riot gear and joined in on beating up the protestors. Can’t prove it, but my source is someone who has been reliable on every other piece of news from the Twin Cities, including this one.
This is a job for a hero!
note to any Americans reading: if you fail to vote for Obama, you are evil
Please keep your religious beliefs to yourself. Thank you.
@PZ: So you did. I stand corrected.
@Quiet Desperation: Please keep your lying, torturing, murdering Republican bastards to yourself (and don’t let them keep control of your country). Then we’ll talk religion.
Kicking in people’s doors with assault rifles and carting off nonviolent protesters? Who is working to incite riots here?
HMMM…
In case no one notices it at the link in the post, I had just linked several hours ago to DN!‘s coverage of the police raids over at Greg Laden’s blog:
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/1/st_paul_police_conduct_mass_pre
A few months ago, I went to a talk here in Boston by Amy Goodman and her brother David about their new book, Standing Up to the Madness: Ordinary Heroes in Extraordinary Times:
http://www.democracynow.org/store/product/11/BKSUTMHC
My only criticism was that she opened with the “When fascism comes to America” line, but left off – as I heard it, and I was in the front row – the “…and carrying a cross” part, making the phrase essentially meaningless. (The talk was in a UU church, which hardly seems to warrant such self-censorship.) Other than that, very good.
The criminalization of dissent has been advancing for some time. I hope – though I realize there’s probably not much cause for optimism – that this will be something of a turning point, at least in terms of the public recognition of the problem. It would also be nice if more people became familiar with the history and present of the anarchist movement, so the police and media would be less able to milk tired stereotypes…
(If nothing else, this episode has made me aware that there are at least a few other anarchist readers/commenters here at ScienceBlogs, which makes me happy. :))
Now I know that I am colour blind however after what I have just seen I swear that those helmeted thugs were wearing Brownshirts.
I want to comment, but what’s the point, irrationalism rules the day. Not one of PZ’s better posts.
@ Autumn:
Advocating violence against the police? Not smart.
Who said liberals can’t be just as ignorant as fundies? I think the comments on this blog prove it goes both ways. So much for rational discussion.
Eric TF Bat saad: @Quiet Desperation: Please keep your lying, torturing, murdering Republican bastards to yourself (and don’t let them keep control of your country). Then we’ll talk religion.
Oh, lighten up, silly rabbit. I was just joshing you.
You want the real truth? I’m a black hearted, ice blooded misanthrope. All this shit is just hilarious to me. The more chaos, the more the center does not hold, the more things fall apart the better as far as I care. Let it all go to hell.
Hey, maybe I *am* evil. :-) I should send an application to The Guild Of Calamitous Intent. They could assign me to arch Pope Obama. Could be tricky. He controls the Arc Of The Moral Universe, which I suspect is some sort of lightning based superweapon.
In related news: a sheriff in South Carolina now has his own tank.
http://reason.com/blog/show/128482.html
I can’t wait for the 2012 conventions, and tactical nukes will be deployed to quell “suspected” rioters. Pass the popcorn. :)
When I see this shit I just start feeling bad for all you living in the US. Police thugs, religious fanatics in high office, a system serving only the rich and powerful, etc. Ever feel liking just getting the hell out of there?
Spare me. Shit or get off the pot.
Don’t come to Limey Land then folks, or if you do fly into Glasgow not Heathrow. Down south of the border (England and Wales, not Mexico) a police creature can arrest you, just because. On suspicion of maybe commiting a crime, like interfering with a police officer doing his duty: He distracted me. Suspicion of rioting, that is so quaint.
The thing is though we know we aren’t free while you used to be actually free. I am a European citizen but a British subject. That says it all. At least up here in Bonnie Scotland amongst the Tartan Tat we have managed to resist some of it. You see our rulers KNOW we will very angry if provoked. Those milksops down south only MIGHT.
When I see this shit I just start feeling bad for all you living in the US.
That’s really sweet. I may openly weep. Thanks. :-)
Police thugs, religious fanatics in high office, a system serving only the rich and powerful, etc. Ever feel liking just getting the hell out of there?
Already planning early retirement overseas in, hopefully, about 8 years when I’m 50.
Hey, thanks to some advanced military R&D where I work, I was able to obtain an image from the future that I thought I’d share:
The 2012 Republican Convention after a protest is put down.
Supposedly, though, the arrested protesters will be able to demand the right of Thunderdome at any point in their detainment.
police creature
Police CREATURES? Is Torchwood out of control again? Have you alerted The Doctor?
Yes, police creatures. It is just as clumsy as police persons yet even more PC since it covers not only police dogs but also those members of Her Majesty’s Constabulary whose species is indeterminate…
Those of you who are over thirty might remember a time when our police weren’t militarized. This is one of the effects of the War on Drugs, and “civil” forfeiture laws that turn cops into robbers. When they take money from us under forfeiture, they tend to spend it on toys like military-style weapons and uniforms, and chemical and electrical torture devices.
-jcr
Quiet Desperation @#66
Supposedly, though, the arrested protesters will be able to demand the right of Thunderdome at any point in their detainment.
That’s a thread winner right there ;)
if you fail to vote for Obama, you are evil
If you believe that voting for Obama will put an end to this, you are deluded. These are local and state cops, and if you want them to behave, then you have to participate in local and state elections and hold the people who give them their marching orders accountable when they come up for re-election.
-jcr
Iornically, this is the exact kind of thing a fundie would say.
“You’re wrong but I won’t (or rather, can’t) go into why. You’re all dumb. Bye.”
Welcome to Iran. Errr, I mean America.
The problem here is that Ms Goodman is too lightweight. I mean literally, not enough pounds/kilos. If she had been a 300 pounder and sat down in the street, it would have taken 8 cops to cart her off to the copshop. Nor would she have been eligible for resisting arrest because that would be fatism. Future protests that seek to debilitate the police (operationally, not physically) only require a dozen heavyweight champions to start a sit-on. Plus, there’s going to be more space on t-shirts for slogans.
To be fair, there really were violent riots at the rethuligan conference, so the police had really some reason to go after suspected rioters. The only question is, whether they got some real wannabe rioters, or they just randomly arrested some innocent people and the real rioters went undisturbed.
I wonder if it might be possible to set up virtual newsrooms–blogs outside the jurisdiction of the local law enforcement that can receive footage from phone cameras during an event like this. When the police know they’re being watched and they can’t do anything to suppress it, they’re more likely to remember to be on their best behavior.
Reminds me of Jesse Björn Buckler, editor of the German Marxist weekly Jungle World, who was sentenced to two years in prison, 6 month of these in incommunicado detention, for ‘attempted rioting’ (LOL, Mr. Buckler is a freefight champion, if he had really wanted to riot, it would not have remained an attempt) at the Göteborg summit.
To add insult to injury, the Jungle World considers no globals stupid hippies at best, antisemites at worst, it is therefore rather unlikely that an editor of that paper would riot on their behalf.
If there’s one thing the Republican regime fears, it’s a free and unbiased press. The most patriotic thing anyone can do to oppose terrorism is to vote every one of these Republican fascists (redundant) out of office.
From where I’m looking at it (Amsterdam, Netherlands) it seems that the American people are getting a sample of their own (USA’s) number one export product: Modern day fascism.
As a non American human right activist I applaud the actions against journalists and peaceful protesters by the American government, it makes our work fighting insane US policies a lot easier, more and more politicians outside America are becoming ashamed of being affiliated with a full-on fascist regime and reluctant to defend American initiated and totally counter productive policies like the war on drugs and their war on “terror” (read= people’s basic human rights).
At last America is perceived as the fascist police state it really is by people all over the world who used to drink their cool aid.
Thanks again America, you gave us the stick to kick your fascist policies abroad with, no foreign politician in his right state of mind can afford to defend your policies any more, it’s becoming like defending the old DDR’s policies, or China’s.
Sure, I’m very aware of the replies I will get for writing this, it will vary from “I didn’t vote for this regime” to “I fight this regime”, I heard all the apologies already but what it really comes down to is that people are responsible for their own government. “Americans” are doing this to themselves, stupid as they are.
Keep drinking the cool aid from your two sold-out-parties and keep voting democrat or republican, as a well known scientist once said; The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.
It was inevitable that there would be repeats of the thuggishness displayed by the NYPD at the 2004 Republican convention, because aside from paying a laughable pittance to a handful of abused demonstrators there were no consequences at all for the department, city and Bloomberg. The result of that fiasco is that it’s now open season.
I don’t know what to do about this. So far our descent into police-state status is still widely popular (not surprising given the ignorance and authoritarian mindset of so much of our population), and as long as that is the case nothing will be done.
“Land of the free”
Yeah, right…
If you believe that, I know a guy who can make you an excellent deal on this bridge…
Lee Harrison said:
If it goes to nowhere, I’d suggest that he speaks to Sara Pallin.
(Because Ted was rather beating around the bush,)
Dean @ 42:
Fuck you.
I’m sorry but I fail to find sympathy for a woman who tries to create some sort of moral equivalence between our brave men in Iraq and Islamic terrorists who bring down planes. //- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkI-xCSoq3A -//
She was being a nuisance while the police, who are in a highly charged environment, were intent on combating hostile anarchists. Maybe it wasn’t technically correct but it was just a common sense arrest. Wrap her up for a few hours to get her out the way and then maybe release her a few hours later with a warning.
Posted by: Ferre @ 79,
Right, and I agree with everything you say about America, however the Dutch or most European societies for that matter, are not exactly in a positon to claim the title of holier than thou with regards to human rights either…
That sadly seems par for the course.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
@Pete Rook:
You mean those brave men and women who work at Abu Ghraib, right?
Since when was being a nuisance a crime ? And what sane person considers monitoring the actions of the police to be causing a nuisance ? If she was being a nuisance to the police, by monitoring what they were doing, then the problem lies with the police not her.
What is this “Maybe it wasn’t technically correct” rubbish ? It seems you admit there may well have been no grounds for arrest but think she should have been arrested anyway. Nice that you are so happy to allow the police to abuse their powers and commit crimes.
As a non American human right activist I applaud the actions against journalists and peaceful protesters by the American government, it makes our work fighting insane US policies a lot easier
Oh, that makes perfect sense. You’re a human rights activist who applauds violations of rights in another country and thinks they make the work of defending human rights in your own easier. Specifically, you celebrate the arrest of a journalist-activist who has been joining others to fight for people’s rights around the world for decades. Quite the political analyst and humanist.
People who genuinely care about human rights work with rights defenders in other countries. They don’t cheer their arrest.
At least they’re still bothering to come up with BS charges: at the RNC ’04 they were arresting people and holding them for multiple days on no charges whatsoever. No, that’s not legal, but they did it anyway.
Oh fuck you. When Obama shows himself to be actually different in a truly meaningful way than the Republicans maybe your gross overgeneralization may have some truth.
But Mr. fuck-the-gays, fuck-the-Constitution, pro-religion-in-government and runs away from gun-control and women’s rights while caving to corporate special interests is not exactly a “progressive” candidate. He certainly doesn’t stand for my values, though he stands closer than McCain.
And, unlike you and the rest of the cult-of-personality/my-team voters I don’t like that. I gave that kind of juvenile thinking up in third grade.
And while it means, at times, my candidates have been marginal players, they’ve been the best candidate, not the “best of two shit stains” provided by the political machine.
Good for the police who were trying to keep peace in a difficult situation. The readers of this blog constantly show their immaturity and adolesant mindset by advocating the actions of the protesters and the likes of Myers.
Moses,
It is said that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
While I am sorry your country got stuck with such inefficient voting system, I am afraid you have, besides directly voting for McCain, only two choices. Voting for Barrack the Lesser evil, or voting for republicans indirectly by not voting or wasting your vote for an unelectable candidate.
Sorry, but this are the only options you have. Either choosing the lesser evil or the greater. And voluntarily choosing the latter is evil.
Yup, not telling what the flower girl would have done. Did she even CONSIDER the possibility that one of those officers had allergies? What anarchy! Waving unlawfull flowers should be punishable by death!
Why do you bother reading this blog? This isn’t always here for rational discussion, it’s also a place to vent about the frustrations atheists and liberals go through. We don’t always have to be politically correct in a liberal blog.
That said, if this same sort of thing happened in Denver, as some here have suggested, then I am equally disgusted and Obama should be ashamed of himself and his party and issue a full appology. Does any body have any videos or other evidence to that? If it did happen, it’s best to let the Obama camp know that we will stand for no such thing from anybody. But all I have seen is the McCain camp doing it, or Minneapolis PD did it without intervention from McCain so far.
I wonder if this is all just because McCain found out most of the people booking flights to and hotels around Minneapolis were there to protest, not show support.
Amy Goodman was there to make a point. She was asked several times by the police to move behind a border. Then she was ordered by the police to move behind a border. Then she was led by the police to behind the border.
Then she crossed it again.
And, golly gee, she got arrested, just like she had hoped.
Now, I can see by the posts that this crowd is fully in support of her actions, but come on, if a cop asks you to stay out of an area and you refuse, what in the hell do you expect?
There ought to be a little bit of responsibility on her part as well.
So, Pete, what you’re basically saying is that you don’t like her opinions so she should be locked up for a bit?
What business did the police have telling her to move ? And why were they so reluctant to be on camera ?
Moses,
Believe me, I’m quite annoyed at some things about Obama. But there ARE major, major differences between the candidates.
For starters, one can give an off-the-cuff relatively nuanced statement about current global affairs and responsible policy. The other *sings* about bombing Iran! (Not to mention mixing up Sunni/Shi’a, saying Czechoslovakia still exists, what-have-you, and now Lieb’s not by his side to correct him.) One is, while annoyingly woo-pandering, at least fundamentally pro-science and pro-advancement. The other is…. not.
Yes, neither is a truly progressive candidate. But saying they’re the same is like saying Bush and Gore were the same back in 2000. Can you IMAGINE how different the past 8 years would have been with the Gore administration? I’m not saying it’d have been perfect, of course, but chances are damn good it would’ve been a LOT better.
Climate change (obv) taken seriously, a lack of cuts for science research, we still probably would’ve invaded Afghanistan, but haring off into Iraq would probably have been avoided, certainly no global gag rule, less penchant for cronyism => more competent FEMA => less Katrina damage… seriously, there’s a BIIIIIG difference between the candidates.
King George suppressed dissent in the Colonies that way. The correction was for the common people to run the sons of bitches out of the country at gunpoint.
“Amy Goodman was there to make a point. She was asked several times by the police to move behind a border. Then she was ordered by the police to move behind a border. Then she was led by the police to behind the border.”
No, she was there because her producers were arrested and she was asking to speak to whomever could get them released. Countless journalists would have reacted just as Amy did.
I am appalled by some of the responses to this incident.
It’s no wonder we have rampant police brutality in this country.
It sure is easy to pick out the folks who would have survived in Hitler’s Germany.
“What business did the police have telling her to move ? And why were they so reluctant to be on camera ? ”
1. Safety. Crowd control is not just for Republicans, you know.
2. Don’t know, don’t care, wasn’t there. A more important question might be: What was her responsibility in getting herself locked up? Does she have rights beyond the rest of us?
If you don’t want to go to jail, don’t be belligerent. there are peaceful ways to protest.
If a sailboat cuts in front of a barge and claims ‘right of way’, does that change the fact that the barge will smash the sailboat? Some things are simply stupid.
John Nichols:
Not only Goodman, but the entire Democracy Now team are professional journalists in the best sense of that term. Those who are simply assuming that they probably got what they deserved — and who are, more generally, defending the Police here simply because some actual criminals engaged in destructive behavior — are no different than those who justify anything and everything the Government does because there are some Terrorists out there and they’re really violent.
I agree!
Y’know what I’d like to see? I’d like to see lots of arrests…
Yep. Arrests of the guys who gave the orders to intimidate and harrass peaceable demonstrators and lawyers supporting them in the first place. Arrest and charge the cops who were ‘just following orders’, arrest and charge cops who step over the line, get all arbitrary and nasty and pushy when someone asks, reasonably enough, just to see a warrant. And I’d like to see them charged and convicted and rotting in jail where they belong. I’ve got nothing but respect for cops who work with their community and do their frequently thoroughly unpleasant job right, but this just isn’t that. So enough. Enough of this hiding behind black uniforms and visors and anonymity and getting away with acts of brutality and domestic terror anyone else would be thrown away for life for committing. Names on the docket, charges levelled, evidence heard, please. Make ’em think, next time, before they follow an illegal order, or just manage to carry it out in thoroughly illegal fashion, there’ll be a judge to answer to…
… Oh. And also, I’d like a pony.
So might makes right for you
Thanks for the best example of the authoritarian mindset I’ve seen on this blog so far
And what evidence is there that she was causing anyone to be in any danger ?
So you know enough to know that she was putting herself and others in immediate danger and this deserved to be arrest and yet you admit you do not know enough to claim that. If you know enough to explain why she was arrested you know enough to explain why the police were try to prevent journalist observing their actions.
If there was indeed a safety issue then the police should have explained that to her. Instead they seem to have ordered her to move without offering any explanation as why they were ordering her to do so. The officer who arrested her was at the very least highly discourteous and rude.
She was also trying to speak to a senior officer to find out why her colleagues had been arrested. If that is behaviour you consider to be belligerent then I doubt you understand the meaning of the word. It would also seem you do not understand what accountability means either.
And you obviously do care, as you have now made to posts on the matter. What you should have said is you do not care about human rights abuses. I would have believed you has you said that. I do not believe you when you say you do not care.
“She was also trying to speak to a senior officer to find out why her colleagues had been arrested. If that is behaviour you consider to be belligerent then I doubt you understand the meaning of the word. It would also seem you do not understand what accountability means either.”
Gosh, thanks for clearing that up for me. The last time I had to bail someone out of jail I went to the police station.
It is interesting to see that my positions were met with attacks on my understanding. Is there no room for discussion here?
Let’s see if we understand this much: You argue with a whole freakin’ fleet of cops and you end up in jail.
Yup. I must have no understanding at all.
My point remains: She bears some responsibility for her actions. Can we at least recognize that as a fact?
What PZ failed to mention is that in addition to the few that probably were not engaged in illegal acts, there were many more that were slashing tires, breaking car windows and causing other property damage to buildings and store fronts in St. Paul. It is not the job of the police to hold trial on each individual before they decide whether or not to arrest them. All they need is PROBABLE CAUSE, and if you’re standing in a group of 100 people, and the other 99 are performing illegal acts, then reason would suggest that are PROBABLY guilty as well. If you’re not, fine. Tell it to the judge. That’s what the court system is for. Don’t want to be arrested? Then don’t associate with people that do stupid shit that gets them arrested. “Guilt (or in this case, PROBABLE guilt) by association” people; one of the oldest lessons in the book. Or maybe you’re too in love with Barack Osama to remember some of those basic principles.
The protesters need to be carrying more American flags. And someone needs to print up a copy of the US Constitution on a banner. Riot(-perpetrating) police trampling American flags and the Constitution is a better visual.
” Posted by: T_U_T | September 2, 2008 9:23 AM
If a sailboat cuts in front of a barge and claims ‘right of way’, does that change the fact that the barge will smash the sailboat? Some things are simply stupid.
So might makes right for you
Thanks for the best example of the authoritarian mindset I’ve seen on this blog so far”
No. Sorry if I misled you. Might does not make Right.
But pointing a finger at Stupid does not make me an ‘authoritarian mindset’.
Please, be careful around the metro buses.
No!!! Peter Rooke is an undead zombie. He wants her tortured, raped, eaten and killed in no particular order.
You are referring to a product of Catholic outreach, Fr. Rooke of Saint Draculas Church of Vampires, Zombies, and Ghouls.
Best I can say about Rooke is that even the other zombies think there is something drastically wrong with him.
I rather imagine part of the enquiry would have involved finding to what police station they were being taken. I suppose you think she was not entitled to be informed of either that or the grounds for for her colleagues arrest.
You still have yet to explain why the police seemed reluctant to be filmed. This is the third time I have asked, so further refusal to answer will be taken as admission that you know nothing of the situation and are talking out of your backside.
Nothing scares an asshole cop quite like a peaceful protest.
Quiet Desperation @#66 That’s a thread winner right there ;)
I’d like to thank the Academy for- huh? What? No award? Well that’s a rip off. :-( Not even brunch with PZ or a plush squid? Feh. See if I construct an exaggerated persona for the purpose of online improvisational humor again.
Well, OK, I will. It’s my one addiction.
I just hope no one takes the post (or any of my posts) too seriously. I’m only about 97.2% the misanthrope I claim to be. :-) Once in a while I have a glimmer of insight that, in 50 years, we won’t be living underground under Sharia law, and eating pressed food wafer composed of algae and grandparents.
There seems to be a fair bit of evidence that the police have been acting in a high-handed manner, that in some cases may well cross the legal boundary into criminal action.
Using this logic it would thus be open to citizens to arrest all police officers and restrain them until such time as a competent legal authority can take custody. Citizens do have the power to detain people they suspect of the breaking the law, and Crazy Fundie argues that if some in a group are engaged in illegal activity it is reasonable to consider others will be as well. Thus all police officers must be considered as likely to have broken the law and thus citizens would have not only the right to arrest them, but a duty as well.
Goodman didn’t have it as bad as her producers.
Her producers were roughed up and have since been charged with FELONIES.
“Posted by: Matt Penfold | September 2, 2008 10:31 AM
…I rather imagine part of the enquiry would have involved finding to what police station they were being taken. I suppose you think she was not entitled to be informed of either that or the grounds for for her colleagues arrest.
You still have yet to explain why the police seemed reluctant to be filmed. This is the third time I have asked, so further refusal to answer will be taken as admission that you know nothing of the situation and are talking out of your backside. ”
Uh, how about the St. Paul police station? They actually talk between the stations nowadays. This is only St. Paul, not New York.
Nice try at framing the questions to suit your purpose. Rather than argue about why cops did not want to be filmed during a riot, why don’t you address the issue I raised from the start: Does she bear any responsibility for her actions?
Thanks for the personal comments. Knowing that you have such a wonderful vantage of my speaking techniques will make a real difference to this issue.
I will repeat this one thing, so that you don’t miss it:
She bears some responsibility for her actions.
If you cannot admit that one simple fact, this conversation is going no where fast.
sjburnt @#105:
So, according to you, it is a crime to question the actions of the police. Anyone who dares suggest that law enforcement officials remain accountable to the people they serve or to the law they’re supposed to enforce is a dangerous criminal who should be locked up. All subjects should just do as they’re told, and keep their papers handy, because you never know when you’ll be snatched off the streets for no reason, and you wouldn’t want to slow down our brave defenders in their work of harassing people whose only crime was daring to think for themselves.
This is insane. Police don’t have magical powers to declare anyone who disagrees with them enemies of the state. Unless someone has actually committed a CRIME, they shouldn’t be arrested. Cops don’t get to just round up anyone they don’t like and toss them in a dungeon, at least not in a sane or free society. But it’s pretty clear you have no interest in a sane or free society.
It’s quite possible to believe that people “bear responsibility for their actions”, and still hold that the consequences incurred in response to those actions were way, WAY out of line.
Particularly when it’s the *authorities* who are playing the part of uncaring, unsteerable barge crushing a wayward sailboat, it’s to the benefit of a free society to try and regulate the barges.
sjburnt, #115: Does she bear any responsibility for her actions?
Good question! Would it help to consider whether Andrei Sakharov bore any responsibility for his placement in internal exile? If the answer is “yes”, then I guess that, yes, Ms. Goodman does bear some responsibility for her arrest. In a way that trivializes the meaning of “responsibility”.
Shorter Peter Rooke:
Amy Goodman should be in the kitchen where she belongs.
Putting it another way:
If someone steals a loaf of bread, they’re clearly in the wrong (more than can be said in this case). Suppose the local guardsmen want to cut off the thief’s hand. Would you be willing to justify such an overreaction by playing up the “responsibility” on the thief’s part? Or do you see how that’s not really a valid argument?
Phantomreader42 said:
No, that’s not entirely fair – it’s just that the defenders of the police’s actions seem to feel that a sane and free society only protects people who express their freedom in ways which they personally approve of. Everyone else is probably not sane and should therefore not remain free.
*offers fistbump to Chiroptera*
Say, PZ, aren’t you supposed to be in the Twin Cities terrifying the Catholics? That’s why they asked for additional security, after all.
Police swear an oath to the Constitution. Shit, when I taught at UDC I had to swear an oath to the Constitution!! Frankly, this sort of police action is dangerously close to treason. The police do not protect the governing bodies, they protect the people!! Serving to protect the government from the people (an oxymoron in a democracy) is a totalitarian police state by definition.
I grew up in MN and I can’t belive this is happenng there. I now live in Europe and damn glad I do. I am ashamed that I came from Minnesota,the way it is going now. You need more people like P.Z Meyers
Yes. Well-done.
Uhh, has there been a US national political convention in the past 40 years when the cops didn’t beat on people?
It’s disgusting to see legitimate protest stifled and specious arrests being used as a tool to “get them off the streets.”
However, the system works sort of, though slowly and only when you force it. Those two girls in the ugly green hats are National Lawyers Guild observers, taking photos, making notes, and (hopefully) making contact with the people being arrested. If the police did wrong, they will be held to account, and while right now that doesn’t help the poor arrested folks who will be held for the maximum allowable period of time before being processed it’s something.
Liberal lawyers are patient and have long memories.
@ “Jimmy”, “sjburnt” & “Crazy Fundie”_
Hey, did you know that there’s an entire book that’s all about you? And that it’s simplified for the lay reader- not a p-value in a carload.
You can read it here
Harrowing, simply harrowing…
Thom Hartmann is interviewing her… she had a funny quote about a NY Post reporter who, to no avail, told the cops “But we’re a REPUBLICAN paper!”
Nice to see them own up to their bias.
I don’t have time to watch it now (or to read through the comments to see if anyone’s mentioned it yet, so sorry if you have) as I’m on my way out, but if you click on the Democracy Now! link in the original post or here
http://www.democracynow.org/
you can watch today’s report on the arrests.
What an ignorant response.
Yes, it is St. Paul. St. Paul has multiple police stations.
Most major metropolitan areas have multiple police stations. Multiple police stations that are geographically separated and are not as easily accessible as in New York.
Asking where they were being taken is a relevant question.
@ Ktesibios:
It looks like an interesting book.
If you’re recommending it to me based on my name, that’s my fault – it was simply the best I could come up with to reflect how I anticipated my particular comment would be received by the liberal nut jobs on this thread.
However, if you’re recommending the book based on my comment itself, then your recommendation is baseless and rediculous. The people that are out prancing around in downtown St. Paul, shoulder to shoulder with the ones who are breaking windows in the Macy’s building and slashing car tires should definitely be arrested and plead their case to the judge – hell, hire a lawyer and take down the cop who ‘wrongfully’ arrested them. I don’t give a shit. But you can’t expect the cops to sort through who is or is not guilty. Probable cause is a judgment call – just like all the idiots who got arrested made a judgment call to put themselves in that position in the first place. The police can and should have the authority to do what it takes to control a few to ensure the safety of many (politicians or not).
The police can and should have the authority to do what it takes to control a few to ensure the safety of many (politicians or not).
Ah yes, the Bush doctrine of preemptive urban pacification based on the sheer speculation that any two people in one place at the same time must be planning the Detroit riots. Apparently the founding fathers only got it right when it comes to gun rights (for fanatical wingers) and all wrong when it comes to anything granting the filthy rabble any more rights than a common slave.
Down with the tyranny of freedom! Give me 24 hour surveillance or give me death!
CrazyFundie @ 106
Except that Amy Goodman wasn’t a protester – she’s a journalist. She was trying to do her job as a journalist and was arrested.
And “Barack Osama”? Grow the fuck up.
sjburnt @ 115
Riot? Where was there a riot?
What are the odds the knuckle-dragging power freaks trolling this forum are some of the first to criticize a non-rethuglican when this happens to their protesters? Oh wait, that’s right: it doesn’t happen to their protesters.
How convenient the application of police force…
Sorry to be so late to this thread but here’s the most useful link to the Minneapolis crackdown: http://twincities.indymedia.org/
How ’bout this? From now on, peaceful political protests must be comprised by at least fifty percent licensed and armed citizens.
That’ll put an end to this shit in a hurry.
Oh wait, yeah, that’s right. According to the NRA, gun rights are for killing black people. Silly me, I thought it had something to do with deterrence against tyranny or some nonsense like that.
I was at the March on the RNC protest yesterday. The majority of protesters were peaceful, and followed the request of march organizers, who were trying hard to get people through the streets. I didn’t see anyone get arrested, and I didn’t witness any violence. There was a strong presence of police, and some yelling went on toward the counter protesters, but that’s it. From the videos I’ve seen, and by visiting nornc.org, it looks like the response from police may be excessive, however, responses are stronger when dealing with larger unpredictable groups. The ACLU was doing a good job of making people aware of their rights. When police tell you to move, you need to move. If you don’t, you can be arrested. That isn’t unlawful. Amy Goodman was told to move, three times, and she didn’t. Because she didn’t heed an order from the police, she was arrested. She, however, is far removed from the RNC Welcoming Committee, which gave the protest a bad name by running around being dicks and not “crashing the convention” at all. Anti-war protesters now look like clowns.
IME, the right wing media always paints antiwar protesters as clowns. If no violence occurs, there is much handwringing about lazy, spoiled protesters who don’t risk their lives for freedom, blah blah blah. If violence occurs, all of the protesters are violent, anti-American radicals who should be jailed. You end up damned either way.
Words of “widsom” from Palin’s minister (from Huffington Post article):
Months after hinting at possible damnation for Kerry supporters, Kalnins bristled at the treatment President Bush was receiving over the federal government’s handling of Hurricane Katrina. “I hate criticisms towards the President,” he said, “because it’s like criticisms towards the pastor — it’s almost like, it’s not going to get you anywhere, you know, except for hell. That’s what it’ll get you.”
You can’t make stuff like this up.
“Guilt (or in this case, PROBABLE guilt) by association” people; one of the oldest lessons in the book.
So can we infer your guilt by your associations?
When I saw this post, I thought that PZ was referencing these incidents: http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/09/leftist-protesters-attack-rnc-delegates.html but I guess since those are cases of RNC delegates being assaulted by protesters, it’s OK.
“Good for the police who were trying to keep peace in a difficult situation. The readers of this blog constantly show their immaturity and adolesant mindset by advocating the actions of the protesters and the likes of Myers.”
So true.
Some knucklehead college student throws a rock through the window of some business protesting …(protesting what anyway?) and the police are supposed to take the time and weed out the “good protestors” from the “bad?”
Thats not how real life crowd control works ladies and gentlemen. Surely….those of us over the age of 22 should have come to grips with this reality by now?
Some knucklehead college student throws a rock through the window of some business protesting …(protesting what anyway?) and the police are supposed to take the time and weed out the “good protestors” from the “bad?”
I guess you don’t believe in due process. Hope you’re never in need of it.
Thats not how real life crowd control works ladies and gentlemen.
Shoot first, ask questions later–or as is has been put in the past, “Kill them all, God knows His own.” This is kind of how it worked out at Kent State.
P.Z.: Thanks for the tip on news coverage of the arrests and the “rioters.” I tried the MPLS Star Tribune, whose coverage of this story is gutles and perfunctory. That poor excuse for a paper is treating it like a fender-bender in a church parking lot. I guess they don’t want anyone to question their ongoing claim that the Twin Cities has a superior “quality of life,” and that people run around town chanting, “We like it here.”
According to the NRA, gun rights are for killing black people.
That would come as a great surprise to Ulysses S. Grant, who was one of the founders of the NRA. NRA chapters in the south were formed to fight back against the KKK, and resist the democrats’ attempts to steal guns belonging to freed slaves.
-jcr
Having looked at these particular videos of the Amy Goodman arrest it would seem to me obvious that both parties (the police and Amy Goodman) displayed very poor judgement.
The police could have handled the situation by having one officer ask her (as they did) to step back over the line and then ask her what the problem is and deal with it (this didn’t happen). However, given that there were some disruptive elements in the protests I suspect that they were extremely nervous, and may even have been warned about diversionary tactics being used. That still doesn’t excuse their poor handling of the situation.
Amy Goodman could also have dealt with the situation better by not repeatedly ignoring an officer’s request to step back behind the line. Seeing that she wasn’t going to get any
joy from these particular officers, she should have tried elsewhere. I’m sure that she was concerned for the welfare of her colleagues, but like the police, she displayed poor judgement. One wonders what would happen if someone approached her in the Democracy Now studio before going on air saying that they had to speak to her and ignoring requests to move away so that the show could be be made.
Adrian
the police who were trying to keep peace in a difficult situation
Ah, yes, the Bush Doctrine: the best route to peaceful solutions is through preemptive attacks against vastly overpowered opponents.
if a cop asks you to stay out of an area and you refuse, what in the hell do you expect?
Right. The police really should have untrammeled power to make you do anything they like with no consequences. They get to create the law, and you must obey or be taken prisoner.
You say Goodman was trying to “make a point”. That’s true, and you apparently didn’t get it.
Speaking of Bush, I still shake my head in disbelief over this particular dichotomy:
1. The invasion of Iraq was justified due to the alleged dire threat that Saddam posed to America.
2. And yet Bush was so supremely confident in the ability of the coalition troops to steamroll Saddam’s forces, in a meeting with Pat Roberston on the eve of the invasion Bush assured/boasted to Robertson that there we be NO American casualties sustained in the invasion.
“Suspicion of rioting”? Is that really what they were charged with? I thought being arrested for something meant they were suspicious you’d done something illegal, by definition. Now, it appears that they just have to suspect that you could be worthy of suspicion.
My head’s spinning. Please tell me this isn’t how the law works in Minnesota.
Re: “Speaking of Bush, …”
Palin says we’re on a mission from God. Or that GWB is the Kwisatz Haderach. Something like that.
Ya gotta love the fascist fucks here, especially the ones who brazenly lie about what that video shows. Top of the heap, though, is Pete Rooke, who tries to justify it on the basis of something rational and intelligent that Goodman said on Hardball — about which Rooke blatantly lies. Pete Rooke is a sickening racist piece of ignorant scum much like that Heidi Harris Christian fundie moron on that show. If you haven’t watched that Hardball video that Rooke linked, I highly recommend it — if you aren’t a moron scumball like Rooke, you will reach a rather different conclusion than he did.
Pete Rooke: First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
The “they” Gandhi was talking about was scum like you.
Oh fuck you. When Obama shows himself to be actually different in a truly meaningful way than the Republicans maybe your gross overgeneralization may have some truth.
But Mr. fuck-the-gays, fuck-the-Constitution, pro-religion-in-government and runs away from gun-control and women’s rights while caving to corporate special interests is not exactly a “progressive” candidate. He certainly doesn’t stand for my values, though he stands closer than McCain.
You’re a low information fool.
… um, the FBI might have actually done some good work with regards to the RNC Welcoming Committee.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1838021,00.html
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/08/30/more_raids/?refid=0