Nerds everywhere will be grieving: Gary Gygax has died. I haven’t played the game in a long time, but I had a lot of fun with it in my undergraduate years — if they haven’t succumbed to mold and decay, I have the original manuals somewhere down in my basement. I also had a set of miniatures, but those definitely got battered into shapelessness by my kids playing with them (but I win in the end, since my oldest son left a huge collection of his fancy miniatures at my house. Maybe I won’t give them back.) My thanks to Gygax and his colleague Dave Arneson for some good old fun times with my geeky pals.
One weird thing: it looks like a lot of Gygax’s fans think he’s just gone on to a new fantasy game — which is strange. Most of the role-players I know were good about telling the difference between the fantasy world and the real world, and the real world doesn’t include deities.
Most of the role-players I know were good about telling the difference between the fantasy world and the real world
I dunno about that. Most of the guys I RPG’d with expected they’d one day have girlfriends.
Q: How many D&D players does it take to change a light bulb?
A: 1d6
Jesus saves! And takes half damage!
Meh; my experience/impressions of Gygax are of terrified intransigence, elitism, and pointless Edition Snobbery (mostly from his loyal horde, of course). They’ll have deified him by now, the poor saps.
My parents, the religious type, once offered to buy all my AD&D books from me so they could burn them. I still have them 20 years later now, although it’s been almost that long since I played. Thanks for some fun times Gary.
I fail at nerdity — never played D&D, never wanted to. However, I might win at a meta-nerdishness level, because I learned who Gygax was from Futurama.
Could someone please explain this? I feel so left out.
Could someone please explain this? I feel so left out.
Dude, get it right: Geeks will also be grieving. I get laid, so that makes me a geek. :)
And Gary Gygax of all people got caught without a cure serious. What is the world coming to?
“Most of the role-players I know were good about telling the difference between the fantasy world and the real world”
Most of the role-players I know about haven’t a clue about the difference between fantasy and reality. Furthermore they worship, speak with, and even kill for their deity quite frequently. But then again, to them a game like D&D is “evil”. Now that’s irony.
The face results of throwing one six-sided die.
Since D&D uses a variety of polyhedral dice to simulate random events with various probabilities, this notation is used to simplify writing.
For example, throw two six-sided dice and sum the results: 2d6. Throw one twenty-sided die: 1d20.
The joke is that it would take between 1 and 6 D&D players to change a lightbulb, depending on the dice roll.
Oops. I meant to quote David M as his comment is what I was responding to.
The joke is that it would take between 1 and 6 D&D players to change a lightbulb, depending on the dice roll. Actually, the joke is an in-joke referring to pen & paper RPG players’ notation for dice rolls.
Thanks!
Thanks!
One weird thing: it looks like a lot of Gygax’s fans think he’s just gone on to a new fantasy game — which is strange. Most of the role-players I know were good about telling the difference between the fantasy world and the real world, and the real world doesn’t include deities.
Noo…. Arrgh… my cognitive dissonance is cracking!
Most of the role-players I know were good about telling the difference between the fantasy world and the real world, and the real world doesn’t include deities.
Relentless! The militant atheist never sleeps.
Jesus saves! And takes half damage!
he needs to take some levels in rogue to get the evasion skill.
Blake Stacey:
You have some good company in your meta-geekery! I also first learned about Gygax on Futurama… And until now, that was the limit of my Gygax experience.
Did anyone catch the quotes in the signature line of the poster that PZ links to?
1) No mutual exclusivity there!
2) Did Mr. Gygax not trust his own philosophy?
Am I reading that forum posting correctly? Gygax himself says he found the lord?
“All I am is another fellow human that has at last, after many wrong paths and failed attenpts, found Jesus Christ.
Via con dios,
Gary”
(Can’t resist another gaming joke, since Ichthyic is showing up-to-date, first-hand knowledge: He must’ve failed his will save.)
(Can’t resist another gaming joke, since Ichthyic is showing up-to-date, first-hand knowledge: He must’ve failed his will save.)
the question really is:
Did he fail his fortitude save before or after he failed his will save?
I’m guessing before.
…another deathbed convert.
oh, and for those unfamiliar…
DnD has been translated into dozens of popular computer role-playing games over the years, so familiarity with the system doesn’t necessarily imply PnP (Pen and Paper) players.
I can find 10 years olds who know DnD rulesets far better than I do, and they’ve only ever played computer RPG’s.
It’s not just for geeks and nerds any more.
Was he Christian? If he wasn’t religious, it would be sick to say he’s in heaven with Jesus, like the nutters were saying on that forum. And I don’t mean sick in the cool kid skater sense.
Surely they’d have some respect for his beliefs (or lack of).
It’s not just for geeks and nerds any more.
yeah it is.
geeks and nerds are just cooler than they used to be.
I figure if we all pool our resources and sell a few magic items, we can afford to have him resurrected.
PZ, you still got that +2 Blog of the Unbeliever kickin’ around?
Sad news.
Nah, geeks and nerds just write the play-aids, books, computer game spin-offs and play WoW now.
Sorry to hear Gygax failed his system shock roll.
I’ll get me coat …
I believe he did claim to be born again late in life.
It’s funny… looking back, I think I can credit the 1st edition Deities and Demigods for the beginning of my fascination with mythology and an interest in comparative religion.
Very sad.
The beauty of D&D is in the eye of the beholder.
[blockquote]I figure if we all pool our resources and sell a few magic items, we can afford to have him resurrected.[/blockquote]
But where are we going to find a diamond worth at least 5000gp?
Yeah, but you don’t want to be looking into the eye of a Beholder, it tends to be bad.
Honestly, Gygax hasn’t been very important in the gaming world for a long time, since he left TSR and it got bought by Wizards of the Coast. While he deserves credit for getting the RPG industry started, certainly he hasn’t done anything lately to deserve accolades.
I don’t know what his personal religious beliefs (if any) were, but within his World of Greyhawk setting he was a demigod: the Mad Archmage Zagig Yragerne.
Game owner from the days of the original edition blue cover Basic D&D set, back when halflings were still called hobbits…
As mentioned above, Gygax hasn’t been active in the modern gaming industry in a significant way for a long time.
That being said, beyond creating the entire PnP fantasy games — he has had a profound impact on computer games, fantasy literature, and other PnP games as well.
His ideas have inspired the last 40 years of fantasy games of all types — and his work has touched 10’s of millions (World of Warcraft alone is 10 million).
He will be missed.
With many apologies to Auden :
Stop all the die rolling, Stop all the saving throws,
Prevent the door from opening, stop taking +2 blows,
Silence the wandering monsters, with a muffled spell of Calm Emotions,
bring out the oaken chest, let the wizard use his potions.
Let Dire Bats circle squeaking overhead,
With wraiths mouthing silently that he is Dead,
Put beholders away with dragons and Kobold,
Let the Dungeon Master tell of adventures old.
He was my North corridor, my South, my East and West,
my +5 broadsword, my Mithral vest.
My Pack, my spells, my gold pieces and Bard’s countersong,
I thought that the adventure would last forever, I was wrong.
The character sheets are not wanted now, shred every one,
Pack up the 8 sided die, stop all the fun.
Put away the monster manual, and the figures as you should,
For not ever again will my world be aligned Lawful Good.
In memory of a childhood hero, Gary Gygax.
But where are we going to find a diamond worth at least 5000gp?
This is why magic doesn’t work: people forget to adjust spell component quantities for inflation. Nowadays you’d need at least $10k worth.
You also need to watch out for the people who only claim to be 9th lvl clerics.
Peculiarly enough, while I’ve always been an atheist.. all but a few of the longest-played D&D characters I’ve had were clerics.
For computer games designers such as myself, Gygax has left a terrible legacy. Too many game design conventions and techniques derive from D&D and I find it stifling. Its influence is overbearing.
Full disclosure: I have shipped a D&D title on the Sony PlayStation Portable, so I have a small amount of responsibility for this mess.
Gary who? Oh! The D&D guy?
Then I offer my condolences to the family, friends, and fans of Mr. Gygax. I have never played, but I think I may (have) enjoy(ed) it. I never got past playing “Hero Quest” with mom, dad, and the brothers when we were little.
Oh, wait, yes I did. I played Gemstone III for a while. AS + AvD – DS + d100 = …
Too many game design conventions and techniques derive from D&D and I find it stifling. Its influence is overbearing.
not to mention how overbearing WOTC is in and of itself.
I always thought Dungeons and Dragons was for the theists, what with that silly alignment system. Skeptics and atheists used Steve Jackson’s GURPS books:
http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showbook&bookid=2977
We threw out the alignment system.
And to think that Gary succeeded where my grandmother never did: He made me into a cleric (for a while, anyway).
I’ve had the original AD&D manuals since I was eleven, and still have quite a few of them.
Gary and his crew were largely responsible for introducing this literature/mythology-geek girl to the joys of ancient myth cycles, fabulous creatures and arcane vocabulary.
Farewell Col. Playdoh–you will be missed. May your dweomer forever shine on our milieu.
I’m with you, PZ, except that as I’m still involved in the hobby, the flood of maudlin and mystical bullshit now oozing out of every related forum is threatening to wreck what positive experiences I have with gaming. People who yesterday seemed perfectly rational are now crafting syrupy odes Gygax and placing him firmly at the right hand of the one true Dungeon Master.
I’m going to go puke now.
Oh, and Norm? When Steve kicks it I guarantee we’ll see the same crap in spades.
“It’s not just for geeks and nerds any more.”
This could not be further from the truth, it’s just that, because of Gary, we geeks and nerds WON! Along with the other members of the Holy Trinity of Geekdom, Lucas and Roddenberry, Gary geekified the whole culture! Movies, television shows, computer games… we now “pwn” popular culture. Gotta bust out a couple of bottles of Tullamore Dew, some polyhedrals, and have a “Keoish” wake for the great man.
Also, if he did become “born again”, it’s a shame. Those fundamentalists hounded people involved in the industry. If he was religious, I sincerely hope he was a communicant in the “Church of the Big Gamble”.
Meh; my experience/impressions of Gygax are of terrified intransigence, elitism, and pointless Edition Snobbery (mostly from his loyal horde, of course). They’ll have deified him by now, the poor saps.
I’d have to say my experience was similar. Along the lines of, he was kind of a jerk. Shame he died, but wont be traveling to “the shrine” any time soon.
Who was it Gygax was supposed to have ripped the idea of D&D from? (sniker) Makes sense he was a Christian.
Bruce, I’m the same way. Most of my favorite characters in D&D have been clerics and paladins, as it’s a way to explore that side of life in a realm where it’s actually real and the deities more consistent with their proclaimed alignments. It’s rather refreshing for that.
Sad to hear of his passing but he was an old fart…
D&D isn’t as tied to atheism so much as is it to being considered a nerd of the highest order.
well d&d was bought out by a christian organization back in the 80’s wasn’t it?
there was a period that they had to remove references to demons and devils because of it.
Poor guy, finally gotten by the gazebo.
As much as I agree that religion is a silly thing, can we please not use a man’s death as the springboard for this discussion?
But then again, to them a game like D&D is “evil”. Now that’s irony.
Uh, who thoughtit was “evil”?
Around that time my parents said: “OK, it’s Saturday night, and you know exactly where your teenager is, what they are doing and who they are with. This is a problem, how?”
And our games had girls. That gamed. Yes!
I never was a gamer, but I hung out with a lot of them (and still do), so you could say that for me Gygax was the guy who built the world next door, and I owe him a debt of thanks for that. My world wouldn’t be nearly as interesting if he hadn’t done what he did, even though I’ve never played a paper RPG in my life.
Who cares if he became a Christian late in life, he created a lasting hobby and cultural phenomenon of which I’m still a part. The roleplaying hobby has changed a lot in the last 30 years but it would be hard to tell where it would have been without the beginning contributions by Gygax and Arneson. D&D also provided the blueprint for the reward-cycle in MMORPGS and other adventure-like computer games.
That gamers talk about Gygax “rolling dice in heaven” etc is just a poetic expression and I found Prof. Myers comments a bit sour.
As an artist, all I will add is that I remember pouring over the many many D&D manuals in a local toy store, salivating at the quality of all the dragons. I’d go home, and draw and draw.
Gygax might not have created the art, but he made a wonderful fantasy place for peoples’ creativity to shine.
I still have all my dice. Who’s up for a game? :D
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/03/04
Thanks, Gary. You made many of my years much more interesting.
It’s the main conversation topic in the places I tend to hang out.
I played 1st edition AD&D on the weekend (yes, I’m an old, old roleplayer), and updated my character sheet on Tuesday. We hadn’t played in ages but just started again a few weeks back.
not for the first time, I recommend The Order of the Stick for some humorous DnD pun.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html
might be a bit hard to get in there today.
heh, the latest is of course, topical…
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0536.html
One weird thing: it looks like a lot of Gygax’s fans think he’s just gone on to a new fantasy game — which is strange.
I’m pretty sure Gary was Lawful Neutral, so that’d put him in Mechanus now.
…Oh, that’s not what you meant?
I figure if we all pool our resources and sell a few magic items, we can afford to have him resurrected.
Even True Resurrection doesn’t overcome death from old age. You need Wish for that. Any 20th-level wizards, sorcerors, clerics, or bizarre prestige classes feel like sacrificing some XP?
Game Over.
I dreamed I died and went to heaven, and was escorted by the heavenly gate keeper into the courts of paradise. There I beheld a magnificent, deific old man occupying the place of honor on the celestial throne.
He was just as I’d pictured him…except for the monogrammed “GG” on his robes.
So I asked St. Peter “Is that really him?”
St Peter replied “No, that’s just God. He only thinks he’s Gary Gygax.”
My dad was given the original D&D boxed set in 1975 (but never played) and I built a dungeon in ’78, soon after starting to play in my sister’s boyfriend’s world. My character more or less retired in the mid-80’s (after too many Constitution hits from resurrections, and me living in different cities), but still sometimes gets taken out as a npc when my nephews and neices hit the same old dungeon. AD&D was for newbies; I designed a new magic system that was more logical than anything of Gygax’s, and it’s still being played in a couple of worlds.
Crikey, I misspelled my own name. No autofill.
I once heard an evangelical preacher say that D&D actually made a fetish out of the number “666”, since one used three six-sided dice to “roll-up” characters.
Way back in the day, I went to GenCon–back when it was in the American Legion Hall in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin–and had a grand old time. Gygax was getting pissed off at all of people who’d made xerox copies of D&D character sheets, telling them they were ripping him off!
I was always more into Traveller and super-heroes, myself. But I spent many an evening playing D&D!
Goodby Gary. The party will save a slot in our (body) bag of holding for you. You gave a lot of people some very enjoyable hours. Even though by all accounts you were a bit of an ass in person. You were not an idol or a role model, but I still owe you a “thank you” for having a good idea and sharing it with the rest of us.
I still have my dice too, and I still keep them right here next me. Should I admit that in public? Well … I guess it is OK today … here’s to Gary Gygax.
http://www.xkcd.com/391/
http://www.xkcd.com/391/
I see a number of people are taking certain comments a bit too seriously. Gamers as a group tend to have a strange sense of humor. Humor is also a coping mechanism. Even with Gary’s bad health in recent years, losing him at 69 comes as a surprise. People are cracking wise about what Col. Pladoh is doing now in order to gain the emotional distance they need to properly process the event.
Gary was always a Christian, though he did become more serious about it after his first stroke. He was always a libertarian as well. We all contradict ourselves, for we all contain multitudes.
And no major contributions after D&D? Say rather his contributions never got the chance to be major, either due to active opposition (on the part of TSR Inc.) or thanks to the industry’s fundamental misunderstanding of what they produce and how to present it to potential users. (Much like our misunderstandings of how best to present science subjects to the general public.)
You wish to see where his RPG work had taken him after TSR, look into the Mythus books (available on PDF), and the Lejendary Adventures RPG from Troll Lord Games (misspelling of ‘legendary’ deliberate for trademarking purposes). In both cases you’ll see games 180 degrees from the present incarnation of D&D.
I knew Gary Gygax, Gary Gygax was a friend of mine. Gary, what he did and what he was involved with is much more complicated than you’d think.
Gygax was some kind of Adventist or Jehovah’s Witness for life, so far as I know. It considerably influenced the game’s assumptions about morality and so forth.
Speedwell @ 52: Dude, I’m up for a game. In fact I’m playing this Sunday. If I may take this opportunity to offer a small plug:
http://www.farlandworld.com/
Yes, at least one regular pharyngula reader is a hardcore DnD player, and then some.
I’ve been playing since I was 10 or 12 or so and I don’t like to go anywhere without my dice. Though I haven’t played much in the past few weeks :(
I shall play a game this week to honor his memory. <>
“…if they haven’t succumbed to mold and decay, I have the original manuals somewhere down in my basement.”
Hey, PZ, can I have your old manuals, please?
To #34: Cool. Nice to see another dev here.
DnD tactics, right? Fun game.
I don’t know if you pin that on DnD. Publishers are notoriously conservative. They’ll pick recognition over innovation every time.
He’ll be missed. Honestly, I couldn’t care less about deathbed conversions.
Oh yea, the D&D equals Satanism was a big theme back when I started playing in the late 70’s. I remember the news doing several stories equating D&D with Satanism, murder, and suicide.
I vividly remember one incident when some kids tried to give me a rough time because they found out I played. They literally ran screaming when I pretended to cast a spell on them. Probably not the wisest thing I’ve ever done, feeding their misconceptions. But it saved me from a beating. So I don’t feel too bad about it.
Even as late as 1991 the hoopla was alive. I went off to school and left my gaming books to my little brother. He went to live with an aunt of ours shortly after that and she burned all the books, claiming that they were demons. Not just blasphemous mind you, actual demons in physical form. Or would that be daemon? ;)
…
Wow, what do you know? The insanity is still going. Here’s what that bastion of truth, Chick has to say on the subject.
Gary essentially invented the role playing genre. While I hesitate to make the comparison, saying he didn’t influence recent games is sort of like saying Einstein didn’t influence Quantum Physics. The dude created the role playing phenomena. I don’t think I will ever do anything nearly as influential, and I am sorry to hear he died even if I didn’t like all his creations. It makes me want to go to GenCon again this year.
Don N.
actual demons in physical form. Or would that be daemon?
lawful evil or chaotic?
When I was in Uganda, I tried to commission a local carver to make a few sets of dice out of ebony as souvenirs for friends back home. He thought I was completely crazy, and did end up making a few mock-ups out of some regular wood. I never did get the ebony ones, but I’ve still got a hand-carved 6-sided, 8-sided, and 10-sided.
But I’ve still got my regular set, and still use them for all kinds of things (boxers or briefs today? Let’s let the dice decide!)
He’s clubbing angels with a +3 mace now.
I was enough of a geek that I couldn’t make friends with the kids who played D&D in school. I don’t think I’m missing much, in retrospect.
Besides, I win: I first learned about Gygax on a D&D-derived-game modding board.
Yet another thread where I prove my non-geekiness. Somebody gave me some D&D thing once, but I thought it was just fun to make drawings on the grid.
Never got anything else about it.
Shit, pretty soon and y’all are gonna ban me as a normal or something.
@#77
I converted a Magic 8-Ball into a d20 (the polyhedron is in fact 20-sided), and I find it perfect for just that sort of thing :D
Shit, pretty soon and y’all are gonna ban me as a normal or something.
And I thought it was just the fundies who engaged in such delusional wishful thinking ;-)
I never did ask. I’d find out for you. But that would mean speaking to her, a thing to be avoided. I’m sure you understand.
Ah, the joy of dice. My most unusual dice are a couple of d6 made from revolutionary war musket balls.
I used to move around a lot after school. When I moved to a new town I’d wander around the streets and base all my decisions on dice rolls. Come to an intersection; roll a die. Should I check out that bar; roll a die. Not the most efficient way to learn the area. But it was fun and I defiantly found some interesting places I never would have investigated were it not for my dice. Yea, I was a hardcore gamer.
Looking back, I can’t imagine my life without gaming. Though I haven’t played for a few years, it was really a central part of my life for ages 13 to 30. Most of my closest friends I met through gaming. While it wasn’t the only thing we did by any stretch, it kind of bound us together. And when I was down and out, it was the gamer network that gave me couches to crash on instead of shelters and park benches. I must say, gamers as a whole are a great bunch of people.
Yes sad news. We heard he fail his saving throw and ran out of hit points.
No resurrection is planned, but I wonder if his brain might be used to make an arcane object of great power?
I spend to many weekends in my youth playing that game. Yet out of it came an understanding of Engineering, math and science. I still remember the church people of the day screaming how it was an evil game and all those you played were under the spell of Satan, but I always had my +5 Bible to help make my saving throws ;-)
Samnell wrote:
I think you’re talking about what I had a problem with, the alignment system. The original DnD had a three alignment system of Law, Neutrality and Chaos, something like Michael Moorcock’s Order and Chaos in his Eternal Champion books, like Elric. Later it became a two-dimensional grid, one axis measured good and evil, and the other law and chaos. Thus, players could be chaotic-good, lawful-evil, and such things. It wasn’t well thought out and caused a lot of confusion and arguments among players and DMs because no one was quite sure in any circumstance how that was to constrain behavior.
With Steve Jackson’s GURPS good and evil were both classed as “mental disadvantages.” Good or evil personality traits were disadvantages because they did constrain and limit your options. Other mental disadvantages included honesty, curiosity, phobias and mental illnesses with delusions and hallucinations. There were also self- or externally-imposed limits like vows and “codes of honor” and addiction. You got extra points by taking disadvantages, allowing you to buy other advantages and skills.
I always wondered why the churches got so vocal over D&D in my formative (and christian) years. I think, now, that I know why. In D&D, prayers work. Well, 1d8+Wisdom times anyway.
OMG! Somebody else reads OOTS!!!!!!!!! Woot! Woot! Woot!!!
I am not the only nerd…
@Norman #85
That’s a good system, though I never minded D&D’s grid. Of course, almost all my most successful characters were Chaotic Neutral, which puts virtually no roleplayng contraints of any kind on behavior. It was behave how you want, when you want. If you play a character as functionally schizophrenic, there’s not a lot the DM can say about your behavior being out-of-character.
The geek in me weeps.
The D&D “loved-the-game-before-but-now-hates-all-the-revisions-and-damns-it-all-to-hell” girl in me still doesn’t smile.
As the Knights of the Dinner Table say, “The Game Must Go On.”
BTW, if you’re curious about what alignment you are, here’s a short test that will tell you:
http://easydamus.com/alignmenttest.html
Turns out I’m Chaotic Good. Strange, I usually come out Chaotic Neutral or True Neutral on these type things. I must be getting soft in my old age.
Full disclosure: I have shipped a D&D title on the Sony PlayStation Portable, so I have a small amount of responsibility for this mess.
Was that D&D Tactics? I just got that game on teh advice of a friend. Weird coincidence running into you here.
Hmmm.
Neutral Good– A neutral good character does the best that a good person can do. He is devoted to helping others. He works with kings and magistrates but does not feel beholden to them. Neutral good is the best alignment you can be because it means doing what is good without bias for or against order. However, neutral good can be a dangerous alignment because because it advances mediocrity by limiting the actions of the truly capable.
Wow! I can’t believe no one has made a reference to that 1982 Tom Hanks TV movie “Mazes and Monsters”! Anybody remember that one?
Thank you, Gary, for many agreeable all-night gaming sessions fueled by pizza and diet coke, where even the dullest party member among us could be hilarious with enough sleep deprivation and exhaustion.
I recently enjoyed the WebComics “DM of the Rings” and “Darths and Droids”, which I discovered thanks–I think–to PZ here on this blog…that was some serious funny, and very much like holding a mirror up to me and my high school buds (we kept gaming together through our college years, too, even though we went to different universities–we’d visit on long weekends and play AD&D together).
I remember fundies in my area also loudly denouncing AD&D (one of them gave one of our D&D group members a hard time for being involved in Martial Arts–afraid he’d “go” Buddhist or something, I guess). Most of us that played in our group were atheist or else pretty light/vague theists of a deistic bent. The one “serious” Christian in our circle of friends usually declined to play. I usually played an Elf or Half-Elf Ranger or Druid type, usually the archer (long range artillery & mage’s bodyguard) rather than the frontline grunt hack’n’slash work in the party. My alignment of choice was usually Neutral Good (or sometimes Chaotic Good), but almost never Lawful Good, which always struck me as too “goodie-two-shoes”.
I’ve still got my books & manuals somewhere, too, and my Dice bag (a friend’s dad’s Crown Royal bag).
Besides D&D, also miss playing Star Fleet Battles regularly. I once dreamed of setting up some kind of campaign using the Star Trek Roleplaying game, but combined with SFB for ship combat, and maybe throw in a little Federation & Empire at the Macro level as the starting point…then “zoom in”, step by step, to the set-up for the RPG play using the Star Trek RPG rules, but I never could generate enough interest among my circle of friends to pull it off. Also played the James Bond RPG a little, and the Star Wars RPG was kind of fun, too…I played the washed-up ex-Jedi hack in our party.
But we always kept coming back to good ol’ AD&D, eventually fighting huge army battles with massive high level spells and lots of over-the-top cinematic action hero stuff for the main PCs…but best of all was always the hilarious in-game dialogue, running commentary, and near mandatory Monty Python and MST3K and inside-joke references. Ah, good times, good times…thanks, Gary, for all that.
Gary DID leave a huge legacy…Steve Jackson would have never published GURPS if there wasn’t a D&D. GDW would have gone on publishing historical miniatures and wargames rules instead of Traveller, the SF answer to D&D (also a game still going strong, with no fewer than 4 versions from different publishers, including the GURPS version.)
Fundamentally, without D&D there never would have BEEN a role-playing-games market. His and Dave Arneson’s great cognitive leap was to move from the miniatures world (a niche always limited by the cost and sheer space requirements) to the narrative, needing only a coffee table, pencil paper and dice.
People may whinge about WOTC, or the pernicious influence D&D has had on games, but the truth is, there wouldn’t be games to have a pernicious influence on without D&D.
Linguist Q_pheevr led me to the geekiest obituary ever, which is how I found out. My older brother still plays GURPS regularly. Those games can go on for years with the same people.
JJR [#95], with the Web you’d probably find enough people now.
Fuck, I’m an atheist, but can you guys let a person enjoy the freedom of their own beliefs, especially as they die? Who the hell cares if Gygax got religion in the end? I don’t. Live and let Live. He spent his entire life being crucified for being the antichrist and now you disrespectful lot are attacking him for being too religious. In the end, Gygax did more for every teenager exposed to D&D to open their minds and see mainstream christianity for the ridiculousness it was than you people will, even though he never intended to.
He was a nice guy, he gave back to the community that revered him, and he never pushed his beliefs on anybody.
Sheesh. You people are sometimes unbelievable. Just a wee bit of respect for your fellow man isnt much to ask, is it? Even if they do believe in a deity?
by the way, its hilarious to see you science geeks making fun of D&D geeks. The Geeks WON, don’t you understand? There’s no higher or lower form of Geek. You are all geeks just like the guys playing D&D, which involves high amounts of thought, reading, math, and imagination.
The guys that lost- are the idiots who play sports and never bothered to crack a book.
Please, Stop the Geek on Geek violence!
I too, am one of those Original Adventurers (OGA??). I still own my blue-covered booklet, foxed beyond repair (and perhaps a bit badgered…).
Gygax did what pop culture could not (though we didn’t know it was pop culture in 1978): he inspired me to think. Oh, first it was wands of magic missiles, and how to get them; but then it was ‘the Hobbit,’ and ‘the Legend of Urshurak,’ and then there was more (graduated college magna).
Oh, my parents hated D & D, and the hours I spent on it; and even this past Thanksgiving, as I sat there with my extended family, my father ranted on how I used to waste my time.
D & D had it’s faults, too; hoo-boy. But, heh, guess what? He made all of you, and me, frustrated. What did we then do? We went out and thought more. Free thinking, reading, and socialisation; a generation of people, thinking.
I haven’t actually *played* D & D in nearly 20 years (certainly not since WOTC – bleh); but I have played many, many of its descendants, including FRPs online.
Love him or hate him, he is why we are here today, reading these words, laughing at 1d6, and ‘people /pretending/ to be 9th level clerics.’
So, I say:
Ave, Caesar. Accipio sum.
You better watch who you’re calling “geeky” PZ old bean. Some of us are still lurking about. I’ll have to see that Mike, Fred, and Trev see this. And Renee was certain not a geek! Man, those were the days!
But…but…I never denied being a major geek for my entire life! You act as if I were saying that geekdom was a bad thing.
(For those who are baffled, Steve is an old pal from my high school days, and yeah, he, Mike, Fred, Trev, Renee, Reed, and the other Steve were all in my college gaming group. Hi, Steve! How’s it going?)
It goes very well. Although these days a little Warcraft now and then is the extent of my gaming. I’m now an audio production geek and putting together a recording studio. I sure wish you were closer. I miss the old gang.
I feel so out-of-the loop:
What’s WOTC?
Wizards of the Coast.
technically correct, but some of us prefer:
Wankers of the Coast.
I’ve always felt a bit intimidated here. And now I never want this thread to end… haha.
But I don’t get the badger reference by Some Call Me MoE
Well… the truth is the man who began what would become a vice or a hobby for many of us, and what such hobby would then moves into other expected and unexpected areas, is dead.
And lets give respect to who has its due…
We are all humans and have failings… if he was not the best of men in person or if he was (i have heard and read many good comentaries about him also) that has nothing to do with what he gave us… even if:
you are not a geek who played… a dozens of shows and movies have been made because someone played and think it was cool to see it the big screen, or because they thought it would make a great game…
maybe there would not Guprs, or WoD, or anything similar if it was not because a man find an interesting way of playing it… if he was a Catholic, or an Atheist, if he has a ton of fanboys or if those who speak badly of him are legion… there is one truth… he helped mold this era in a sort of way… yes maybe he did Little… he BEGAN ALL… (yes ok he took the idea and setting from JRR Tolkien… but lets get real… Tolkien took the idea od frozoens of Mythologies… and both of them dedicated their lives to their creations… and I still DONT like HOBBITS or HALFLINGS)
The day any one of us is able to do something like that… I won’t complain if he badmouths a dead man for being human.
aside of that…
Those who would ROLL Salute you Gygax (now double because i found your first name is the same as mine, interesting… he almost dies in my birthday with 40 years more than me, i thank the Fates they won’t make My day into the Day Gigax dies… my friends would take it as a joke forevermore…)
@Abby Normal:
I always get LG
Lawful Good- A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. He combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. He tells the truth, keeps his word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished. Lawful good is the best alignment you can be because it combines honor and compassion. However, lawful good can be a dangerous alignment because it restricts freedom and criminalizes self-interest.
“Wankers of the Coast.”
nice.
..yeah, those guys have pretty much demolished any potential the DnD franchise ever had at this point by their heavy-handed licensing and “input” strategy.
It’s actually easier to invent an entirely new fantasy world than it is to deal with these wankers.
“It’s actually easier to invent an entirely new fantasy world than it is to deal with these wankers.”
That is what we did. We also played other RPG’s as well.
Call of Cthulu was allot of fun.
Call of Cthulu was allot of fun.
it still is!
oh wait, you were talking about a game, sorry.
thought you were volunteering for the early lunch program there for a second.
my bad.
seriously, though, several have suggested we start a game…
I think that Call of Cthulhu is set up for online play at this point.
interested?
or would that generate a bit too much nostalgia?
“I think that Call of Cthulhu is set up for online play at this point.”
Really, I was unaware.
I am interested.
I am interested.
then I will track it down and post a link back here either late tomorrow (shooting photos all day tomorrow) or the next day.
I’m 90% sure I ran across an online setup for a campaign in that setting not that long ago (just a few months) while I was looking for something else.
This isn’t it, but I think it will get us there:
http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/TheStarsAreRight:Main_Page
how fitting would it be for Pharyngulites to start a Cthulhu campaign???
I mean:
“how fitting would it be for us all to learn what fate Cthulhu has in store for us”
(yeah, like we all don’t know already)
We will be eaten first!
but of course!
btw, IIRC, what I glimpsed was someone who had set up a CoC campaign using this:
http://www.openrpg.com/
I’m sure I will track down the original tomorrow or the next day.
Ah yes Call of Cthulu. I still remember when my character was turned into a proto shoggoth by my teammates and I helped them dispose of several dead sailors by ingesting their corpses and vomiting them out he nearest port hole.
Good times. Too bad I went insane and killed them all.
Good times. Too bad I went insane and killed them all.
well, that sounds about right.
no regrets, I hope?
Ahhh, CoC. The one game (aside from Paranoia) where it’s best for each player to make up five or six characters for an evening’s game. Hell, I try to get all my players to play two or three at a time, just so we don’t have to interrupt the story to introduce new characters. Can you say, “Accidentally hitting yourself with a Molotov cocktail?” How about, “Failed sanity roll?”
Good times. As a GM, at least.
Kimbits: for your enrichment, go to the library and take out ‘the Colour of Magic,’ by an author named Pratchett. I can’t recall the exact book I lifted the quote from (though I suspect it came from Wyrd Sisters) you will, I suspect, fully enjoy reading the whole series.
I did the same (play with more than one character and have others in reserve) while playing Heroes unlimited… i know very different kind of game… but our GM loved to kill my chars… and the one of another friend… but the bastrd always rolled lucky when that happened…
ah what times are the ones we left behind…
and CoC is awesome… unfortunately the other part of Irons and Benet don’t speak to me to continue that detective adventure… yes, beyond all posibility they survived a couple of sesiones…
Ah, actually I just finished Thud by Pterry this afternoon actually. I’ll see about getting my hands on that one next. :D
Thanks
This post had roughly the same effect that I expect most of your articles would have on religious folk. I was overwhelmed with disbelief for a while, then wept at the death of my lord and savior.
OK, for those interested in an online CoC campaign…
please check this out:
http://gnomeslair.blogspot.com/2007/07/re-call-of-cthulhu-open-rpg-session.html
these guys did it, so can we.
If interested, shoot me an email at:
fisheyephotosAThotmailDOTcom
If everyone has the rulebooks handy (readily available online), and we can agree on a time to get started, I don’t think this will be too difficult to set up.
Well this post ended up as a time sink. Ended up having to read the first adventure in the Order of the Stick that someone posted.
Also I just remember back to 7th grade now. That is when I got my first D&D Basic set. Also unfortunately when I was sent to a fundamentalist school by my parents. I ended up getting rid of it because the teachers all told us the games were satanic. But I got over all the indoctrination and the religion by now. Still ended up playing a bunch of RPG’s with friends over the years. Was never particularly a D&D fan. Much preferred SF to Fantasy. Haven’t played in years now but it is fun to remember.
Ah, actually I just finished Thud by Pterry this afternoon actually. I’ll see about getting my hands on that one next
thanks
This post had roughly the same effect that I expect most of your articles would have on religious folk. I was overwhelmed with disbelief for a while, then wept at the death of my lord and savior.