It’s easy to forget what a repellent, sniveling little turd-speck Sal Cordova is until one is reminded by a reference on a blog worth reading (it’s not as if I read Cordova’s ugly little site myself, you know). The occasion this time is that Slimy Sal has just discovered that Joan Roughgarden, the evolutionary biologist who also happens to be a Christian, is a transgendered woman. Oh, the young jackanapes sees many opportunities for hilarity and amusement in this!
She was the daughter of Episcopalian Missionaries and then returned to the Christian faith after many trials in her life. It appears however that amidst her piety she has some peculiarities. It turns out that in 2003, in the prestigious scientific journal Nature, Joan confessed that once upon a time she was a man. Yikes!
Five years ago, at the age of 52, Roughgarden — then known as Jonathan — surprised colleagues by undergoing a sex change.
Will other Darwinists follow suit and have themselves neutered like Roughgarden? How about it PZ or Ed Brayton, or the boys at ATBC? Of course, this will inhibit the passing of their genes, and thus, such Darwinists evidence themselves as being biologically unfit. The irony is that with a high incidence of homosexuality in Darwinian circles, they demonstrate themselves to be biologically unfit.
Ha ha, yes. I’m sure transgendered people find jokes about neutering and being unfit terribly amusing. They must also find the standard confusion of the rubes about homosexuality and transgender positively endearing. “Yikes!”, indeed.
Quick, somebody send his post to the writers for “The Office”. This kind of bumbling, foot-in-the-mouth insensitivity and stupidity is exactly what I’d expect to hear coming out of the boss, Michael Scott. Even better, Slimy Sal keeps jamming that foot ever deeper.
Oddly her penis removal made her/him/it realize that Darwin’s theory was wrong. Perhaps if she read Behe’s books and understood them, she would have been spared having to learn the hard way that Darwin was wrong…
Roughgarden does not think evolution is wrong, but she does have some odd ideas about sexual selection (I disagree with her strongly on them). She is no fan of Intelligent Design creationism, and Behe would not convince her of anything — she is not a stupid woman. But it is rather trivializing of the difficult decision she no doubt had to make in coming to grips with her gender identity, and no, Darwin would have had nothing to do with that choice. Nor would reading Behe have made her suddenly feel like a man.
And then, somehow, he segues into juvenile maunderings about how people prefer a male boss to “lead them into battle”, and how female bosses would have “hidden jealousies”. It’s painful to read.
Seriously, NBC, you’ve got to monitor Sal Cordova. He’s got the pomposity of Michael and the weirdness of Dwight, only less manly, and he’s a goldmine of character ideas.
“her/him/it”?! Egads, man, that’s about the most insulting thing anyone could say in the circumstances. If I said anything that boneheaded to my my TG friend, I would rightly expect a smack across the head and a knee to the groin.
I don’t know if Cordova really is that much of a jerk, or is he just appealing to the “Christian jerk” demographic?
I thought you meant the original UK version (which is a vile thing I don’t watch beyond knowing of its existence) and wondered about it being on in the US at all; but it turns out that other countries have had the poor taste to copy it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/theoffice/
I suppose it’s nice to have confirmation that these people are actually evil, not just intellectually misguided.
Oh I swore off the US Office too. Then out of boredom I gave it a chance- and it’s actually quite great. Different, yes, but great.
Ha ha, yes. I’m sure transgendered people find jokes about neutering and being unfit terribly amusing.
Well, at least they’re novel insults (the rest of his crap is more what we’re used to). And partly true- lots don’t send any genetic material down the line. I made the “decision” to make myself evolutionarily moot at age 20, and I’m still a functioning human I guess.
Of course, this will inhibit the passing of their genes…
Even ignoring the usual stupidity on how “Darwinists” “ought” to want to reproduce as much as possible, why does Cordova think that would make any difference on PZ’s or Roughgarden’s realized reproductive output?
how female bosses would have “hidden jealousies”…
Right, why would anyone want to work for a female boss… what’s this? Companies led by women may be more profitable? That can’t be right!
Poor old Sal. I hope he never uses a mobile phone, videogame, PDA, router, iPod or car. The instruction set at the heart of the single most successful embedded processor, ARM, was designed by Sophie (once Roger) Wilson.
The irony is that with a high incidence of homosexuality in Darwinian circles, they demonstrate themselves to be biologically unfit.
Unfit for what?
I’ll merely point out that Lynn Conway the co-author with Carver Meade of the seminal book on VLSI design, was profiled a few years ago in Scientific American, and it was duly noted in the profile that Conway is a transgendered person.
It appears that either being a Darwinian or a non-Darwinian Theist has nothing to do with one’s sexual identity, just look at the priest class.
…high incidence of homosexuality in Darwinian circles…
Two words, dude: Ted Haggard.
Roughgarden… I tried to read her book, Evolution’s Rainbow. There were some neat ideas in there, but they were really buried under all the activism and insistence that her views were the only moral way to look at evolution…
Yes, her base ideas have grounding in reality, and are plausible, which is far better than the Discovery Institute. But she does take them too far, and making a moral case for your scientific views is kind of cranky. It may be a reaction to being an openly transgendered scientist in America, of course.
On the upside, she’s well versed in activism and defence of her position, so if she finds out about Cordova, the smackdown will be fantastic.
A Christian insulting someone for lopping genitalia off? That’s rich.
Oh yeah we trans folk just LOVE remarks about how we are ‘it’, being neutered and of course how we are all just an extreme form of homosexual. Yep it’s just hilarious it is.
What a vile little piece of slime Val Cordova is, oh wait that is an insult to slime molds everywhere. Rather he is a fine example of the moral and intellectual dishonesty of the IDiot’s in general. Oh and stupid to boot, he just figured out Joan is trangendered? She has been an out activist for as long as I have known of her.
Funny thing is, Sal could have his dick removed and still be a “tool”!
I once thought that Sal was the least bad of the UDders. (That was before it delightful interaction with Abbie). I also thought that Behe was the least intellectually dishonest of the IDists. (Again, that was before his juvenile attacks on Abbie). I suppose trying to pick the “least bad” of those people is a waste of time.
Presumably this is the kind of thing the DI are talking about when they say “Teach the Controversy”? ;)
I also have a close TG friend, and crap like Sal’s just gives me the urge to take it out to the litter box and bury it like a cat. Heck, I also have a friend named Sal (no relation, I’m sure), and this makes me cringe for the whole cohort…
For the Kids (FtK) also chimes in somewhere in that thread.
I think my comment at the time was “what is it with fundies and genital mutilation?”
I love the “Joan confessed that once upon a time she was a man”. I can’t remember when she had the operation, but it was less than 10 years ago, after Jonathan Roughgarden had become well known in the field. So it wasn’t much of a secret.
Bob
I would be curious about the story of the sex change operation. I happen to know a scientist who, at about the age of 40, got a sex change operation. It was, in fact, pretty funny, to see footnotes on her subsequent papers that said “Previously published under the name John.”
Of course, there is a story behind it. He/she was born, well, “undefined” and the doctors had to make a call on a gender. Unfortunately, they chose the wrong one. It became very clear as she grew that she was a female with a penis, and, ultimately, she had it removed.
It had nothing to do with homosexuality.
Sal’s comments make me think of a bunch of me and my friends in elementary school calling each other “fags”, long before we knew any better. I easily managed to move past my insecurities which were at the root of those epithets, but it seems Sal just covers it up with an educated vocabulary.
Shh, Pablo, don’t start telling them about interseuality. The idea that the boundaries between the sexes are not universal, clear-cut, absolute, and set in nature would blow their little minds.
Sal Cordova and the creos and death cult leaders are one of the greatest assets of the Militant Atheist movement. And one of the greatest liabilities of Xianity.
Dawkins, Harris, and Myers are just foot soldiers compared to these guys.
Best I can say, he is too banal and dull witted to be a monster and is merely evil.
Novel to whom? I have a real name that’s made into jokes. Nursery rhymes and silly TV shows/cartoon alusions being primary. I’ve heard them since I was four. I guarantee, they’re not novel to ME. Though they, apparently, are to many people who don’t share my first name.
So, those jokes may be novel to you. But I bet dollars to donuts that they’re anything but novel to the victim of the “joke.”
That can happen. I know one case where a kid with ambiguous genitalia was assigned to be male. As an adult she got pregnant and gave birth to a daughter.
That’s a pretty naster slander on poor Michael Scott. It sounds closer to Dwight, but I don’t think even he is that boorish (although maybe “Sal Cordova” is his online nom de plume), who knows.
“a high incidence of homosexuality in Darwinian circles”
Not to mention a high incidence of comfort with one’s sexuality and a low incidence of angst connected to sexuality. But never mind that, let’s point and laugh at the “freak”.
By the way, if Sal ever accuses anyone of “ad hominem”, please smack him for me.
I thought you meant the original UK version (which is a vile thing I don’t watch beyond knowing of its existence)
——
You are a creationist and I claim my five pounds.
Obviously, given a wide study (“I don’t watch”) you have come to a valid conclusion (“a vile thing”). Because, otherwise you just look stupid by making claims based on ignorance..
Correct link for comment 25
I was really and I still am, wonderign what her sex change would have to do with Darwin. Since I am a believer in evolution does this mean I now have to have the “darwinist” moniker attached to me? Can I file some sort of bias claim because it appears that we “Darwinists” are being singled out because of our beliefs????
Oh, so that’s what makes one a creationist? So sorry to hear of your loss, Sal.
I wasn’t sure that Sal could top the whole Darwin-beat-puppies smear, but gosh darn it, the man continues to surprise.
I’m another 20 year veteran of deciding that I could do more for the human race than just contributing more (garbage) DNA, but that doesn’t make me a creationist, or even transgendered — I’m not sure about cisgendered, but I’m not transgendered. (If opting out of reproducing makes you think Darwin was wrong, how come there are so many creationists with more kids than anyone should rationally have?!)
It never ceases to amaze me how much intellectual detritus is the direct result of dualism. Apparently nobody at the Disco Institute gets that both biological sex and performative gender (that is, how well one conforms to one’s culture’s definitions of “man,” “woman,” and any other genders your culture may have, such as hijra in India) are quite fungible.
If Cordova weren’t such a tragically hidebound dualist, he’d realise that Roughgarden made her sex match her gender. Of course, if Cordova weren’t a tragically hidebound dualist, he wouldn’t be toadying for the DI, either, so…
From a comment to this guy’s original post:
“LOL…Lordy Sal, you’re gonna tick some people off with that post!”
From comment #11 above:
“A Christian insulting someone for lopping genitalia off? That’s rich.”
“Tick somebody off” and “rich”, indeed! Disobeying the various commands of the Lord Jesus Christ himself:
Matthew 18: 8-9: “Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot (or thy useless penis) offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee… rather than…be cast into everlasting fire. And if thy eye (or useless penis) offend thee, pluck it out (off), and cast it from thee: it is better for thee (to rid thyself of something which thee need nor want not)…rather than…be cast into hell fire.”
Matthew 7:1-2: “Judge not (those who may be born different than you), that ye be not judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged…”
Back to Matthew 18, vs.6: “But whosoever shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me(i.e., anyone attempting to follow my commands to cut off offending body parts), it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.”
And that’s just from the Gospel (Good News) of Matthew only.
“By their words ye shall know them.”
So, Mr. Cordova (or whatever your name is)…What say you now???
I feel the need to clear up one point here. There is not a sex change operation, it is a Sexual Reconstructive Surgery, usually shortened to SRS. For MTF, the penis is not ‘chopped off’. It is inverted to become the new clitoris. Just as for FTM, the attempt is to extend the clitoris in order to make a functioning penis.
The operations are not a ‘sex change’. Try to do those on a person who is happy with their gender and you with get a pissed off person but that person remains the same gender.
The sex change comes in living in a new gender and being treated as said gender. The surgery gets the genitals to match the gender.
Chemist, you forgot the money quote:
Yea, windy, thou speaketh well! There are so many Words and commands of Yahweh/Jesus (PBUH!) that Cordova and his ilk ignore and offend that it was hard to pick and choose for my previous post.
Tried to get in over at Cordova’s site to cross-post the Gospel but he requires one to be *INVITED* to register and comment. How then, one might ask, can Yahweh/Jesus “stand at (his) door, and knock” so as to “come in to him, and will sup with him (deliver the Good News of Sexual Reconstructive Surgery–Thanks, Janine!)…” (Rev. 3:20). Talk about preaching to his choir?!?! And ignoring the Word!
Something I may not have been clear about in my first post because I was so spitting mad, someone should explain to the execrable Mr. Cordova that sexual orientation and gender identity are NOT the same thing. If I had been a straight male before transition I would be a lesbian women now. Being bi-sexual, at the least, it really hasn’t made any difference, I still wouldn’t give Cordova the time of day.
A bit of dishonest quote-mining from you there, Donalbain, carefully cutting off the bit which shows that I do know something about it, rather than never having seen any.
To be more specific, for you and anyone else ignorant of the way UK TV works: in the UK the BBC has to be one of the worst self-advertisers ever. It is continuously flouting its no-advertising rule with its own programmes – much like trailers for films can take up rather a lot of cinema time. Thus there has been lots of coverage of The Office in between shows and on/within other shows. Given that the “best” bits (chosen by its supporters) are so hopelessly unfunny and vile, that hardly bodes well for the rest of the show. Hence I avoid watching it as an entire programme but generally have no warning as to when the BBC are going to trail or boast about it yet again.
Meanwhile, there are a lot of things I don’t need to try at all to know they are bad things (eg murder) or things I wouldn’t like (eg foods containing ingredients to which I’m allergic). Similarly, shows containing individual people or elements which I already find vile, are unlikely to be good shows from my perspective.
Thank you Janine, very well said.
Given the fact that the god of the OT is inexplicably preoccupied with a particular kind of knifework done on the male sexual organ, one would expect xtians to avoid picking on genital modification elsewhere.
(Oh, I forgot… that degree of self-awareness is pretty much antithetical to religion. Bummer.)
Good to see Sal taking a
widestrong stance on the important issues.Nice show ( One of my guilty pleasures),it recreates some of the things that happen in my office, that and I have a big crush on the Pam character, so it´s a win-win for me.
Is this guy for real?
Yes, Blake, yes. I fear that if I called Cordoba a “contemptible fool” I would only be indulging in flattery.
For MTF, the penis is not ‘chopped off’. It is inverted to become the new clitoris. Just as for FTM, the attempt is to extend the clitoris in order to make a functioning penis.
Minor correction: it’s inverted to become the new vagina (in traditional penile-inversion technique); part of the glans is retained, nerves intact, to make the clitoris.
I would like to stress that the “sex change” is really one step in a process; it’s usually the last one and it kinda pales in significance to actually transitioning. But it’s the icky one everyone gets all bugeyed about.
There will be a test on friday, class.
another link in lieu of trackback.
Interesting that that Sally guy is apparently incapable of imagining a Christian who is not a cretinist. I want to see him in stuck in a random church in Europe (not counting the Kingdom Halls of Jehovah’s Witnesses) and trying to argue for cretinism. Will his head implode? Or will Sally merely show us what a real meltdown looks like?
(Yes, yes, very cheap pun, I know. The wide stance was already mentioned above, and I have too little imagination to come up with something at least as good. I’m already very proud of “implode”!)
Interesting that that Sally guy is apparently incapable of imagining a Christian who is not a cretinist. I want to see him in stuck in a random church in Europe (not counting the Kingdom Halls of Jehovah’s Witnesses) and trying to argue for cretinism. Will his head implode? Or will Sally merely show us what a real meltdown looks like?
(Yes, yes, very cheap pun, I know. The wide stance was already mentioned above, and I have too little imagination to come up with something at least as good. I’m already very proud of “implode”!)
I want to see him in stuck in a random church in Europe…
Preferably one with a transsexual priest, displaying art like the classic Ecce Homo exhibition, and where a mass gay marriage happens to be taking place…
Damn, what an immature little fucker this Cordova is. How old is he? Eight?
David and Wendy,
Ooo, nice idea and great visuals. Still I would rather see his head explode. A bit messier but far more dramatic and a good chance for some interesting patterns on the walls.
Avenger, you realize that comparing Cordova to a eight year old is an insult to eight year olds everywhere.
“To be more specific, for you and anyone else ignorant of the way UK TV works: in the UK the BBC has to be one of the worst self-advertisers ever. It is continuously flouting its no-advertising rule with its own programmes – much like trailers for films can take up rather a lot of cinema time. Thus there has been lots of coverage of The Office in between shows and on/within other shows. Given that the “best” bits (chosen by its supporters) are so hopelessly unfunny and vile, that hardly bodes well for the rest of the show. Hence I avoid watching it as an entire programme but generally have no warning as to when the BBC are going to trail or boast about it yet again.”
You’re insane. The UK “Office” is brilliant. (And when it’s ‘vile’ it’s *hilariously* vile…on purpose.)
That’s not at all necessary. Any old Catholic church will do.
Also… an exploding vacuum? I’d rather not witness a Big Bang.
That’s not at all necessary. Any old Catholic church will do.
Also… an exploding vacuum? I’d rather not witness a Big Bang.
Natasha (#35):
In the lives of several of the TG folks I know, it hasn’t been quite that simple. My college Significant Other’s father is now a heterosexual (indeed straight-married) woman; she’s told me that being heterosexual as a male didn’t bother her, though being male did.
Another more senior MTF who’s a friend of mine tells me she was (proudly) flamingly gay as a man–but she’s now been in a lesbian relationship with the same (XX-chromosomed) woman for more than 25 years.
And there are other examples; the only lesson that I’d draw from any of these is that sexual orientation across a gender transition is unpredictable.
And you ludicrously imagine that makes it better!
When creationists are stupid, quite often they are stupid on purpose too. That doesn’t make the stupid any better either (regardless of whether or not it was meant to be funny – to some of their own kind). When they tell falsehoods lots of those are also deliberate. Once again it’s not an improvement. Rather it’s worse that they choose to do so.
Oh, what a putrescent, disgusting heap of shit Sal Cordova is. I imagine him sitting behind his PC touching himself as he time and time again rereads his own precious little “articles”, gloating over his own putrescent disgustingness.