that cartoon is 100%, the church would like everyone to blindly obey what they say with out question and or reason.
Dustinsays
I thought Homework of the Beast was much better since it draws on the view that Revelation is actually evidence that huffing meth while thumbprinting LSD at the same time was one of John’s favorite passtimes.
I also really enjoy the other commentors there. Before I can see the comments there, I have to first click on the permalink.
Why there has been no fuss from those who object to depictions of prophets, I don’t know. I’ve seen it alleged that because Jesus is an Islamic prophet, all depictions of Him are forbidden as well. Curious, no?
Ross Nixonsays
What glaring contradictions?
Christians aren’t asked to “blindly” obey, well not the ones I’m familiar with.
And as for the book of Revelation, some interesting things there… including an army of 200 million coming to the Euphrates River from the east. That was more than the world population in 90 AD. In 1961, China boasted of 200 million trained militia (surely an exaggeration then, but quite possible now if they so desired).
Oliversays
Ross, now that you point it out.. oh yes it all makes sense, the bible is true after all! I’m sold.. where can i go and make my donation to your prayer group?
These sorts of attempts to find meaning in ancient manifestations of mental illness worry me most of all. And make me tend to support the conclusion that eradication of the woo-factor in society may be necessary after all. I hope you learn something while visiting this site Ross.
Russell’s Teapot has been one of my favorites for awhile now. I just wish it was updated more often. But when it is updated it’s worth the wait.
uknesvuinngsays
Genesis 1 vs Genesis 2
Matthew 1 vs Luke 3
Those two big, honking, glaring contradictions come to mind immediately. And that’s just a tiny sampling of the glaring contradictions to be found.
And yes, Christians are asked to blindly obey, it’s just covered up in a lot of fluff and “faith” to obscure the fact that ultimately you’re being asked to take the word of millennia-old humans about a being no one can even show exists. You’re expected to live your life according to rules with little justification beyond “because we said God said so.” There exists no evidence for the existence of the Biblical Jesus, yet you’re told you have to fully convinced of his supposed sacrifice and alleged resurrection and continued existence. It very much is blind acceptance of a great many ridiculous at best, disproved at worst, premises, and blind obedience to the supposed directives of God, no matter how many fancy theological structures and good feelings you bury the truth with.
Michael Xsays
Well, PZ, I hope for your sake you can speak Norwegian by the time you get to hell. Apparently, you’ll be in good company!
Having lived most my life in California, I’m hoping that there is a big upswing in spanish speaking atheists…
zayzayemsays
That comic (as in all of Russel’s Teapot) is gold.
His drawing of the Christ-Lamb is awexome. Reminds me of a-poca-mon.
inkadusays
I was having this thought while listening to Hitchens debate recently:
What exactly happened during the acension? I mean did Jesus just keep levitating and asking himself:
Can they see me? They can still see me. I can’t dissappear yet. Good thing it’s cloudy today. Damn, the air is getting thin. Ok, looking like I can barely see my disciples now. Just a few more yards to be safe. Ok. Good. Now I can go to heaven. Jeez, I mean, I’d love to explain it to them, but they’d never believe me. ‘What do you mean, Jesus, heaven’s not a place above the clouds? Why is it called heaven?’ I just wish my dad had let me do what I wanted to do, which is teach astronomy. But no, he had this whole sacrifice thing going. ‘No son of mine is going to teach astronomy! We Yawhehs are known for sacrifice! How we sacrifice! If we don’t sacrifice ourselves, we sacrifice others! I’ll be the laughingstock of all the gods. What is this astronomy. Maybe those people need an astronomy lesson more than they need to see my own son nailed to a cross for a few hours. What do I know? I’m only your father. Go. Go down to earth and teach astronomy if you know so much. Break your fathers heart. You don’t care.’ Gee, I hope he hasn’t sold my comic books.
Sastrasays
“Children … the details don’t matter. What’s important is that we unquestioningly accept the magic of the resurrection, even in the face of such glaring contradictions in the story.”
No, this is not right — not really. It’s not a “concise summary” of Christianity if the vast majority of Christians would not recognize either themselves or their faith in this.
Only those called “extremists” are supposed to unquestioningly accept the dogmas — at least that’s the case in Christianity today. Even most fundamentalists don’t say that. What gets hammered into the heads of the faithful over and over nowadays is that they should doubt, question, and THEN accept the Resurrection, the atonement, the divinity of Jesus, and the existence of God anyway.
That’s the whole point of what they consider the “sensitive, thoughtful, deep” forms of faith. To know that reasons and evidence count against it, but to hope. To embrace. To accept — with hesitation. Religious faith is to leap into the unknown against fear. It’s not brave if you don’t fear because you don’t question. You need to question.
And then they drag in every lame secular analogy they can think of where we keep going on after a devastating event, or we keep persisting in the face of overwhelming odds, and say “it’s like that.” Questioning makes faith even stronger the same way struggle makes you stronger. It’s a bad analogy, but that’s what needs to be dealt with.
Keep feeding them a straw man version of Christianity which claims that theists all seek to believe “without question” and they will happily tell themselves that you just don’t get it, and be content that atheists really think religion is only what happens in cults, but they know better. Don’t play along. Know where they’re coming from.
Ross is correct to a certain extent. Ever been to a church service? The preacher rarely asks you to blindly obey (though sometimes he does – remember, questioning God is bad). However, even though he doesn’t come out and say that you should blindly obey, that’s what he wants. He’ll ask you to “think” about something, but then he goes on a gish gallop-kind of thing where he implants what he wants you to think into your open brain. It’s quite the effective routine; it gets the peanut gallery to think that they came to these conclusions themselves rather than just sucking in whatever they’re told.
Carliesays
Sastra’s hit it perfectly. They ‘test’ it, but it’s a rigged test. Then they can feel all smarmy and smug that they’re all intellectual and rigorous because they’ve ‘tested’ their faith.
Actually the cartoon is pretty good for the RCC, maybe not so much for the others but I’ll disagree with Sastra a little here. For all the smoke screen about questioning it is ‘believe because I tell you you should’ at the core.
There is no way to conceal this.
bethsays
I love Russell’s Teapot!
Mobiussays
Hey, PZ. Thanx for bringing Russell’s Teapot to my attention. I am reading the series now. (Dial-up is so slow!) I have to admit they are great. I just read one on Pascal’s Wager and was ROFLing.
Thanx again.
Avatarsays
So let me get this straight, Sestra: Ask questions, learn about the total lack of evidence supporting religious claims, acknowledge the weaknesses and contradtictions of dogma…and believe anyway?
What is the difference between that and simply closing one’s eyes in the first place, ignoring all evidence and rationality, and doing exactly the same thing…believing regardless of evidence? You still end up in the same place and get fleeced by the con.
Carliesays
Avatar,
Absolutely true, but you get to say that you did indeed “look at all the evidence” and “study [my] religion” and so on. It’s providing them with a sense of comforting depth, false though it may be.
JohnnieCanuck, FCDsays
While we’re on the subject of comics, this one is going to appear in many a lab over the next few days.
Well, PZ, I hope for your sake you can speak Norwegian by the time you get to hell.
Bokmål or Nynorsk? Or even Riksmål?
[When he typed this, he was enlightened.]
David Marjanović, OMsays
Well, PZ, I hope for your sake you can speak Norwegian by the time you get to hell.
Bokmål or Nynorsk? Or even Riksmål?
[When he typed this, he was enlightened.]
Michael Xsays
David, you have me at a loss. I’m going to be such a loser in hell. DAMN MY UNLINGUAL COUNTRY!!!
On that note, to gain redemption, I suggest that everybody take a look at
Wondermark.com. It has no religious bent, it’s simply funny and I have a feeling that most people on this forum will like it.
Silisays
Thank you, Inkadu. That had me smirking. It really does make perfect sense for Yahweh to be a jewish mother, doesn’t it.
David Marjanovićsays
David, you have me at a loss.
The joke is that there are two official Standard Norwegians, and a third, older standard is used by a few conservative newspapers and stuff. Here’s an article on the situation, called Norwegian as a Normal Language, but read the Wikipedia article first. My realization that has led to enlightenment is that this confusing situation is why Norwegian is spoken in hell.
David Marjanovićsays
David, you have me at a loss.
The joke is that there are two official Standard Norwegians, and a third, older standard is used by a few conservative newspapers and stuff. Here’s an article on the situation, called Norwegian as a Normal Language, but read the Wikipedia article first. My realization that has led to enlightenment is that this confusing situation is why Norwegian is spoken in hell.
David Marjanovićsays
For the record, I don’t speak any kind of Norwegian. :-)
David Marjanovićsays
For the record, I don’t speak any kind of Norwegian. :-)
*chortles*
that cartoon is 100%, the church would like everyone to blindly obey what they say with out question and or reason.
I thought Homework of the Beast was much better since it draws on the view that Revelation is actually evidence that huffing meth while thumbprinting LSD at the same time was one of John’s favorite passtimes.
My favourite atheist cartoon is to be found at http://www.jesusandmo.net/
I also really enjoy the other commentors there. Before I can see the comments there, I have to first click on the permalink.
Why there has been no fuss from those who object to depictions of prophets, I don’t know. I’ve seen it alleged that because Jesus is an Islamic prophet, all depictions of Him are forbidden as well. Curious, no?
What glaring contradictions?
Christians aren’t asked to “blindly” obey, well not the ones I’m familiar with.
And as for the book of Revelation, some interesting things there… including an army of 200 million coming to the Euphrates River from the east. That was more than the world population in 90 AD. In 1961, China boasted of 200 million trained militia (surely an exaggeration then, but quite possible now if they so desired).
Ross, now that you point it out.. oh yes it all makes sense, the bible is true after all! I’m sold.. where can i go and make my donation to your prayer group?
These sorts of attempts to find meaning in ancient manifestations of mental illness worry me most of all. And make me tend to support the conclusion that eradication of the woo-factor in society may be necessary after all. I hope you learn something while visiting this site Ross.
Russell’s Teapot has been one of my favorites for awhile now. I just wish it was updated more often. But when it is updated it’s worth the wait.
Genesis 1 vs Genesis 2
Matthew 1 vs Luke 3
Those two big, honking, glaring contradictions come to mind immediately. And that’s just a tiny sampling of the glaring contradictions to be found.
And yes, Christians are asked to blindly obey, it’s just covered up in a lot of fluff and “faith” to obscure the fact that ultimately you’re being asked to take the word of millennia-old humans about a being no one can even show exists. You’re expected to live your life according to rules with little justification beyond “because we said God said so.” There exists no evidence for the existence of the Biblical Jesus, yet you’re told you have to fully convinced of his supposed sacrifice and alleged resurrection and continued existence. It very much is blind acceptance of a great many ridiculous at best, disproved at worst, premises, and blind obedience to the supposed directives of God, no matter how many fancy theological structures and good feelings you bury the truth with.
Well, PZ, I hope for your sake you can speak Norwegian by the time you get to hell. Apparently, you’ll be in good company!
Having lived most my life in California, I’m hoping that there is a big upswing in spanish speaking atheists…
That comic (as in all of Russel’s Teapot) is gold.
His drawing of the Christ-Lamb is awexome. Reminds me of a-poca-mon.
I was having this thought while listening to Hitchens debate recently:
What exactly happened during the acension? I mean did Jesus just keep levitating and asking himself:
No, this is not right — not really. It’s not a “concise summary” of Christianity if the vast majority of Christians would not recognize either themselves or their faith in this.
Only those called “extremists” are supposed to unquestioningly accept the dogmas — at least that’s the case in Christianity today. Even most fundamentalists don’t say that. What gets hammered into the heads of the faithful over and over nowadays is that they should doubt, question, and THEN accept the Resurrection, the atonement, the divinity of Jesus, and the existence of God anyway.
That’s the whole point of what they consider the “sensitive, thoughtful, deep” forms of faith. To know that reasons and evidence count against it, but to hope. To embrace. To accept — with hesitation. Religious faith is to leap into the unknown against fear. It’s not brave if you don’t fear because you don’t question. You need to question.
And then they drag in every lame secular analogy they can think of where we keep going on after a devastating event, or we keep persisting in the face of overwhelming odds, and say “it’s like that.” Questioning makes faith even stronger the same way struggle makes you stronger. It’s a bad analogy, but that’s what needs to be dealt with.
Keep feeding them a straw man version of Christianity which claims that theists all seek to believe “without question” and they will happily tell themselves that you just don’t get it, and be content that atheists really think religion is only what happens in cults, but they know better. Don’t play along. Know where they’re coming from.
Ross is correct to a certain extent. Ever been to a church service? The preacher rarely asks you to blindly obey (though sometimes he does – remember, questioning God is bad). However, even though he doesn’t come out and say that you should blindly obey, that’s what he wants. He’ll ask you to “think” about something, but then he goes on a gish gallop-kind of thing where he implants what he wants you to think into your open brain. It’s quite the effective routine; it gets the peanut gallery to think that they came to these conclusions themselves rather than just sucking in whatever they’re told.
Sastra’s hit it perfectly. They ‘test’ it, but it’s a rigged test. Then they can feel all smarmy and smug that they’re all intellectual and rigorous because they’ve ‘tested’ their faith.
Best take on Pascal’s Wager ever. :-)
I botched the link. Here it is
http://russellsteapot.com/comics/2007/my-fantasy.html
Actually the cartoon is pretty good for the RCC, maybe not so much for the others but I’ll disagree with Sastra a little here. For all the smoke screen about questioning it is ‘believe because I tell you you should’ at the core.
There is no way to conceal this.
I love Russell’s Teapot!
Hey, PZ. Thanx for bringing Russell’s Teapot to my attention. I am reading the series now. (Dial-up is so slow!) I have to admit they are great. I just read one on Pascal’s Wager and was ROFLing.
Thanx again.
So let me get this straight, Sestra: Ask questions, learn about the total lack of evidence supporting religious claims, acknowledge the weaknesses and contradtictions of dogma…and believe anyway?
What is the difference between that and simply closing one’s eyes in the first place, ignoring all evidence and rationality, and doing exactly the same thing…believing regardless of evidence? You still end up in the same place and get fleeced by the con.
Avatar,
Absolutely true, but you get to say that you did indeed “look at all the evidence” and “study [my] religion” and so on. It’s providing them with a sense of comforting depth, false though it may be.
While we’re on the subject of comics, this one is going to appear in many a lab over the next few days.
http://www.creators.com/comics/speed-bump.html
Maybe someone was trying to create a mouse model for a post-doc or something.
That link won’t last past today. This ought to last.
http://www.creators.com/comics/speed-bump/11280.html
Oh. Here‘s the first half of the story.
Oh. Here‘s the first half of the story.
Bokmål or Nynorsk? Or even Riksmål?
[When he typed this, he was enlightened.]
Bokmål or Nynorsk? Or even Riksmål?
[When he typed this, he was enlightened.]
David, you have me at a loss. I’m going to be such a loser in hell. DAMN MY UNLINGUAL COUNTRY!!!
On that note, to gain redemption, I suggest that everybody take a look at
Wondermark.com. It has no religious bent, it’s simply funny and I have a feeling that most people on this forum will like it.
Thank you, Inkadu. That had me smirking. It really does make perfect sense for Yahweh to be a jewish mother, doesn’t it.
The joke is that there are two official Standard Norwegians, and a third, older standard is used by a few conservative newspapers and stuff. Here’s an article on the situation, called Norwegian as a Normal Language, but read the Wikipedia article first. My realization that has led to enlightenment is that this confusing situation is why Norwegian is spoken in hell.
The joke is that there are two official Standard Norwegians, and a third, older standard is used by a few conservative newspapers and stuff. Here’s an article on the situation, called Norwegian as a Normal Language, but read the Wikipedia article first. My realization that has led to enlightenment is that this confusing situation is why Norwegian is spoken in hell.
For the record, I don’t speak any kind of Norwegian. :-)
For the record, I don’t speak any kind of Norwegian. :-)
To answer the question of how cartoonists can get away with having Mohammad in a cartoon, they use body doubles.