Ken Ham is in the news again, and he knows exactly what he’s doing, the cunning little rat.
While foreign media and science critics have mostly come to snigger at exhibits explaining how baby dinosaurs fit on Noah’s Ark and Cain married his sister to people the earth, museum spokesman and vice-president Mark Looy said the coverage has done nothing but drum up more interest.
“Mocking publicity is free publicity,” Looy said. Besides, U.S. media have been more respectful, mindful perhaps of a 2006 Gallup Poll showing almost half of Americans believe that humans did not evolve, but were created by God in their present form within the last 10,000 years.
Creationists really aren’t stupid—they’re clever in getting the support they need to protect their ignorance.
Looy said supporters of the museum include evangelical
Christians, Orthodox Jews and conservative Catholics, as well
as the local Republican congressman, Geoff Davis (news, bio, voting record), and his
family, who have toured the site.
Everyone knows now not to ever vote for Geoff Davis, right?
They also repeat this weird claim that I have read in every single frickin’ article about the AiG creationist museum…
The museum’s rural location near the border of Kentucky, Ohio and Indiana places it well within America’s mostly conservative and Christian heartland. But the setting has another strategic purpose: two-thirds of Americans are within a day’s drive of the site, and Cincinnati’s international airport is minutes away.
It really isn’t that close to the bulk of the country. It makes one wonder about the quality of the reporting going into these stories when no one even bothers to look at a map.
Now we also get a dose of the persecution complex:
The project has not been without opposition. Zoning battles with environmentalists and groups opposed to the museum’s message have delayed construction and the museum’s opening day has been delayed repeatedly.
The museum has hired extra security and explosives-sniffing dogs to counter anonymous threats of damage to the building. “We’ve had some opposition,” Looy said.
That’s just weird, and not at all fitting with the attitudes I’ve heard. Even the most fervent evilutionists I’ve talked to respond to the news of this “museum” with laughter, and look forward to visiting it and mocking it. They say now that even bad reviews are still good publicity, but I don’t think that will last long after they’ve opened: unremitting mockery is not going to help their cause in the long run. There will be a surge of interest when it first opens, followed by a steady decline in attendance.
Hi PZ,
A deeply reflective MLK Jr Day to you, Sir.
OK, as the kids say, WTF? A little while ago, the museum was “within six hours’ drive of two-thirds of the entire population of the US.”
If you consider “a day’s drive” to be 24 hours at 60 miles per hour…
Six hours each way is not a “day’s drive” for any sort of one-day excursion.
That said, the best way to kill this is to never go. Don’t go to mock it. That still gives him money. Remember, as long as he doesn’t lose too much, he wins. And if you go, you increase the number of claimable attendees. Again – the best way to hurt this whole thing is ignore it. Talk about it, sure. Tell people why it’s such a bad idea, okay. But don’t go.
The New York Times is doing a series on the rise of Pentacostalism worldwide and in the U.S. I think things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.
Story:
http://nytimes.com/ref/nyregion/houseafire_index.html
Graphic:
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/01/14/nyregion/20070114_STOREFRONT_GRAPHIC.html
Yes, you foolish darwinists and your “silly” definitions of a “day”. All these “years” you keep telling us that a “day” is twenty-four “hours”.
Now, suddenly when it is convenient for you, a “day” is suddenly less than twenty-four “hours”! You also now deny that a bananna fits perfectly within a human “hand”! Anything to prop up your “sad” unprovable belief system.
Did I mention it takes more faith? Adam and Eve with no Steve! And, umm, hmm. Moondust is passe. Oh, little rotary engines!
Seriously though, using a twenty-four hour driving-like-a-bat-outta-hell radius, everything in the continental US east of the Pacific coastline, Idaho, Nevada and Arizona makes it.
Even if it were within a day’s drive, so what? Do they think that everyone within driving distance will want to visit? Now, if they said walking distance, I might agree they had a chance.
This museum sounds too scary for me so I’ll give it a miss.
Even scarier is the ‘fact’ that so many people believe the world was manufactured.
In a week.
Just before the Jewish religion started in earnest.
While the Chinese were tying knots to symbolize thoughts and developing writing.
After the gingko trees were already growing.
The museum has hired extra security and explosives-sniffing dogs to counter anonymous threats of damage to the building. “We’ve had some opposition,” Looy said.
This reminds me of a house on the bluff in Seattle, where I live. During the last presidential election, this guy had many enormous right-wing political signs nailed to his fences that faced the street.
Then he claimed that vandals were after his signs, put up spot lights to better show them off, added additional signs that warned against stealing his other signs, put barbed wire in front of his signs, asked the police to double patrols around his house, and basically made a huge frikkin’ jack ass of himself about these damn signs he claimed people were trying to steal.
It’s hard to find real lefties to attack them, so they have to make it up.
I guess it’s similar to the “If there were no God, we’d have to make one up” thought.
There is no way that Ken Hamm actually believes this stuff. He makes a very nice income on the stupidity of his flock and full well knows they are stupid. Though he comes from Australia I.m sure he is related to Elmer Gantry.
Why is he not welcome in Austraslia, anyone know?
Following up on Blake’s comment. It’s curious that they changed the wording to “two-thirds of Americans are within a day’s drive.” Assuming that you drive 65+ mph for 24 hours, Salt Lake City is the western limit and the entire East Coast is in range. Driving that same speed for 6 hours only gets about 400 miles from Cincinnati. (only halfway to Morris, MN)
The total population of CA,WA, AZ,OR, NV,ID, HI, AK adds up to about 59 million or about 20% of the US population. So it looks like someone did the math to make the “two-thirds” claim true.
Bozo’s Circus is now closed down, which means that if a REAL clown can’t make a living amymore, I don’t see how Ham is going to make it. My main question however, is whether the poster called “Selma: is REALY Salma Hayek!
http://salmahayek1.blogspot.com/
If only there were a god… I could see myself discussing evolution all night long with Salma…
Rats! J-Dog is on to me…can’t I go anywhwere without being recognized?
Prof. Myers wrote:
Not weird at all. You have momentarily forgotten (being the rational, ethical person that you are) what the motive of such a statement would be. They have to continually reinforce the illusion of being a persecuted group. This is a play to their flock, just as the absurd “War on Christmas” is. I wouldn’t be surprised to find that the ‘threats’ are a complete lie.
βPer
I have never given one cent to these whacked-out organizations despite my staying abreast of their current tactics so that I am able to screw-up AIG events in my free time. However, in this case it would truly be tempting to “pay” a visit so that I could witness the forms in which this delusion will manifest itself for so many members of the general public.
Then, I will spin goons (drive vehicle rapidly in circles) in the fescue out front. Well, maybe that would do us a disservice. How to get around this problem?
Some person living in the area of this museum should start up a buisness running tour groups through the place, with commentary on the exibits. Kind of like a theme park comedy experience- here is a display, here is why it’s wrong, some amusing commentary, move on to the next. I wonder if the constant laughter might evetually get on the nerves of the ‘curators’.
Seriously, the more thought you put into creationism, the more you nail yourself down with clear examples of how you think it works, the easier it is to show how wrong you are. Places like this are a boon to the debate, because they cap the creationists best rhetorical tool, which is to avoid actually making any clear assertions which can be shown false.
That’s not a bad idea, Kevin. The creationists already do this with real natural history museums. It would give them a little taste of their own medicine. Unfortunately, it would put money in their coffers, but a few well-places spots on the evening news about how they kicked out tour groups who were only offering an “alternative explanation” and trying to “teach the controversy” would be sweet.
“Conservative”? More papal than the Pope.
“Conservative”? More papal than the Pope.
It’ll be kind of like the freak show. And, once you’ve seen one talking duck, how many more times do you really need to go back?
The bible says that Cain and Abel “went away” to obtain wives. I had always assumed that they into were fucking apes. Or extraterrestrials. Or chimps. Whatever.
Kevin, I think the ‘tour group’ idea won’t fly because one thing Creationists can’t stand is open and honest criticism of their ideas. Mr. Ham would declare his museum ‘private property’ and have the tour group escorted off. A new sign would appear on the front door, “We reserve the right to refuse service … ”
As Carlie suggests, this would also put too much money in Mr. Ham’s pockets.
My suggestion is to get some science geek in there with a wearable camera, and video all the exhibits. Use that as the basis to create a website with an interactive map that includes video and high-def photos of each exhibit. Then create a user forum where each subject header is linked to an exhibit.
We could then open the forums to everyone, and let all of us explain why Ken Ham is so wrong. Creationists would be welcome to joint the forums to attempt their rebuttals – which should be amusing.
Best of all, the guy taking the video only has to act as an (ahem) “sacrificial lamb” once or twice a year to keep current with any museum changes – hardly enough additional income to keep the museum afloat.
Wow! Only one congressman supports it. What about Muslims?
You have to get up early in the morning from New York City to get there before it closes.
Living in Cincy, I am fighting the urge to go. So far the desire not to give these idjits money is beating the undeniable hilarity that watching the exhibits and credulous attendees would provide.
he museum has hired extra security and explosives-sniffing dogs to counter anonymous threats of damage to the building. “We’ve had some opposition,” Looy said.
Why are they always projecting? Yeah, liberal types blow up federal buildings, mail letter bombs, and plant bombs at Olympic sites. WWJSmite?
Heh – if our only Muslim Congressman, Keith Ellison, visited and then wholeheartedly endorsed Ham’s museum, the whole country would be reverberating from the sound of millions of fundamentalist Christian heads exploding.
Bruno Maddox reports on his tour of the museum in the February issue of Discover magazine. He says he feels sympathy for the museum folks. He also states that he is so atheistic as to make Richard Dawkins appear to be the virgin Mary.
Elsewhere in the February issue of Discover is an interview with Francis Collins, who says the usual hypocritical religion-excusing stuff.
mena,
I doubt that anybody is going to bomb Ham’s little dino and caveman show, but you sound like you need a history lesson on the Weather Underground Organization.
Zensunni–maybe they would give you a “scholarship” in hopes of changing your mind. Certainly one “changed mind” is worth the loss of admission revenue. I encourage you to submit a grant proposal…
If only there were a god… I could see myself discussing evolution all night long with Salma…
I don’t think the Ramtha cult is too strong on biology….
Regarding the “bad publicity is still good publicity” theme, there have been some segments of the homosexual population in this country that have historically echoed this, and I think for them it has worked. It’s the old adage that Ghandi coined: First the mock you, then they fight you, then you win (to paraphrase). I think the acceptance of gays, while still atrociously low, has certainly become more fashionable, and this is why I think Mr. Ham and others are right in taking this strategy. It helps fulfill their persecution complex, however undeserving.
It’s time that scientists and supporters of evolution start tapping the media more intelligently to get the word out. Again, focus on the hard benefits for society for the study of evolution. If the case is made in the public forums, many will not be able to ignore it, especially when the positive uses are enumerated. It’s almost like applying for a job: outline exactly what you’ve done and why people should care. If they have to think about it or spend more than a few seconds on it, you’re passed along into the circular file.
It sucks but that’s reality.
I doubt that anybody is going to bomb Ham’s little dino and caveman show, but you sound like you need a history lesson on the Weather Underground Organization.
Posted by: MattXIV
That’s a bit before my time but are you saying then that they are liberals? Why, because you see the word “leftist” there? Sounds like you need may need to turn off the Fox news…
Mena,
You might also look up the “Rote Armee Faction” in Europe, as well as the “Symbionese Liberation Army” in the US.
Back in, oh 1970(?), there were threats made on Dr. George Craig, my professor of entomology at Notre Dame, who was then head of the WHO Vector Genetics Laboratory, because he was supposedly genetically engineering mosquitoes to carry malaria and yellow fever in Southeast Asia.
Let’s Just Say (tm from another list) that none of the groups mentioned considered themselves “conservative.”
fusilier
James 2:24
Well said, Blue Independent. However, what should be done that isn’t being done? Maybe the dots need to be connected more frequently…the reason we have different flu vaccines every year is that we can use evolution to predict which virus will be most active this year…
Although, then you have to get past those who “believe” in evolution, but see a difference between macro and micro…
Oy…
Why, because you see the word “leftist” there?
Stalin and Hitler were “liberals” too, Mena. Don’t you know anything? Liberalism kills millions! I read that on the internet somewhere.
In other news: “I believe I found the missing link between animal and civilized man. It is us.” -Konrad Lorenz
Calladus wrote:
I like this idea. It doesn’t donate too much money to the Keep America Ignorant fund, and it taps into a whole Suspicion of Authority reservoir: “With just a camera-phone, you too can pull one over on those smarmy jerks who spend millions of dollars to tell you what’s right and wrong!” Using electronic gadgetry is cool; using electronic gadgets to embrace the transparent society is even cooler.
Note to media: When there are Catholics who are out of step with official Church doctrine, we who use the English language do not refer to them as “conservative”. “Radical”, “ignorant” or “deluded” are more appropriate adjectives in this instance. The Church supported creationism for about 15 years in the mid-19th century (a reaction to Darwin) before basically accepting it. (The Holy See is a lot of scummy things, but creationist IDiots isn’t one of them.)
BlueIndependent:
I’m actually in favour of the fear tactic–it works so well for the other side.
For example:
The World Health Organization has predicted a major global flu epidemic within the next decade (personally, I have my doubts, but go with it). This epidemic will strike the healthy, middle-age working class primarily, leading to millions of sick and dead worldwide. Developing a vaccine quickly will be our only reprieve, which will require scientists schooled in evolution.
That’s right, creationists would have us ignorant and unable to deal with the diseases that plague us. Creationists must hate humanity.
We rightly fear what we do not know, because what we do not know can destroy us. Science strives to make the unknown known. Science can deliver us from fear.
(And thrown in some Bacon/Sagan metaphors–science as the candle in the dark, etc.)
With some modification this works for global warming deniers as well.
Some of the religious would rather get on their knees and pray that seek the rational solution to a problem. To sway them over, speak their language–parables.
(Sorry to post to Scott Adams’s site, but it’s the first place I found this old story.)
Wow, there are at least a couple people outside of Bill O’Reilly’s Bizzaro World (TM) who think that people who want to reform the mess that this country has gotten into through incompetent leadership and who want this country to finally live up to really letting all people to be treated equally all want to form a Marxist state. Sorry fusilier and MattXIV but you two really need to use a dictionary more often.
squeaky: “However, what should be done that isn’t being done? ”
Well for starters, getting stories on the nightly national news would help. Something like a 60 Minutes interview with Mr. Dawkins, or someone else that is asked questions specifically about evolution and what it is and means, rather than always answering questions from the perspective of a conflict with religion. I understand that religion and science clash on key points, but the approach to discussing evolution needs to change.
I saw this segment on a PBS show yesterday (of all places). The name of the show was “Reigion and Ethics Weekly” or something like that, and they had a segment about home-schooling for children, and what segment of the population home-schools, and where they lie on the political spectrum. It was basically 10 minutes of right-wingers denouncing the public school system far and wide as an utter failure with apparently nothing but degenerates in its institutions, and watching video of them feed the Bible straight to their children. And what did the children say when asked about evolution on camera? You shudder to think.
Why am I bringing this up? Because the word needs to get out. Evolution and science in general are not taught well, and now we have 2 million kids in this country getting “home-schooled” by opinion-driven people who may be teaching their children some good lessons, but also instilling a level of intolerance at the same time.
I’m not saying the strategy should change jsut because people home-school their kids. I’m saying the complete message isn’t getting out, in much the same way that the Democratic Party message has not gotten out well in recent years. The communication strategy needs to evolve if evolution is to survive the war. And indeed, it must if this country wants to remain at the forefront.
Emphasize the accomplishments since Darwin that would not have been possible without him. Emphasize the disagreements within the church and Pope John Paul’s admission of evolution’s usefulness. Work the language into the discussion. Think of how many words are now in our vernacular because of the popularity of the internet. Make the vocabulary geek-chic. There are many ways to get the word out, and it’s time to be creative.
The Maddox article in Discover was actually pretty good (though not good enough to make us renew our sub). He talks about the C’ists eagerly siezing each new scientific fact and then “torturing” to make it fit into their prejudices; how it must be a painful position to like science, but have it contradict your cherished beliefs. He pulls no punches in stating that they are wrong, wronger, and then wrong some more.
“Heh – if our only Muslim Congressman, Keith Ellison, visited and then wholeheartedly endorsed Ham’s museum, the whole country would be reverberating from the sound of millions of fundamentalist Christian heads exploding.”
As fun as that sounds, I don’t think it is likely to happen as Keith don’t hold no truck with creationism or Intelligent Design.
A little off topic but possible of interest. The following link is to a story in todays Washington Post about a born-again now attending a secular university and his reactions. Unfortunately, it doesn’t discuss his notions about evolution.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/12/AR2007011202012.html?sub=AR
I agree w/BlueIndependent. There’s a distinct anti-intellectual bent here in the US. We need to do more than just trot out long lists of factoids – the ordinary joe falls asleep thru most of these. I find them fascinating, but 20 yrs. ago? I’d have changed the channel, or radio station. Americans have a notoriously short attention-span – thanks to the glass teat, as Ellison so aptly named it.
It needs to be made fun, engaging, delivered w/panache & humor. Lots of glitz & noise. We ain’t evolved that damn much over the centuries.
Most Americans view scientists as some sort of Dr. Cyclops caricature – a smock wearing bald nutcase bespectacled w/milk-thick lenses.
So let’s borrow a page or 2 from the other side of the fence. The items that demonstrably work, of course.
Because in the end, it’s about communication, and the delivery of ideas, and the language used to do so.
Krystalline Apostate,
That is exactly my point. Humans now can talk all day long about wanting to be more intelligent, but we are not evolved to the point yet where we subvert our eyes and tap our minds first, or at least subject them to equal time. Think of how many times you witness things throughout your daily life that may look odd or wrong, but it is not truly known by you if they actually are wrong or not. Nevertheless, it is likely that you are predisposed to act in a specific way to what you see. It would take a major paradigm shift that starts at childhood for us to become accustomed to tapping the possibilities before the seemingly obvious solution(s). The standard of judging someone innocent before guilty is a start, but as you can see, we ain’t there yet brothers and sisters.
The other side of the coin is a by-product of our culture too. This is a culture that enjoys being served, and thus people are going to pay attention less if you force them to have to drop what they’re doing/thinking in order to understand what you’re talking about. This is one reason why I think the helping of the poor and the sick is lacking in this country: because people are too busy or have their nose stuck in their own business to worry about anyone else’s problems. But that’s for another discussion…
This culture likes getting a menu and being able to choose, and if you put your dish on that menu and make it pleasing, they’ll keep coming back for more.
As for the (Keith?) Ellison quote, nice job on his part. Good euphemism. ;) This society has too many teats to choose from, that is for sure.
Well, I agree with you, Blue Independent. I agree the strategy needs to change. I do think a good spokesperson who can articulate science well is needed, although I probably wouldn’t choose Dawkins. Not because he doesn’t have the credentials, but because if you want families who homeschool their kids or families who don’t believe in evolution to gain a clear understanding of evolution, you need to present a voice that they won’t automatically turn off. Given a high percentage of such families don’t believe in evolution for religious reasons, and given that Dawkins is clearly anti-religious, he is not the best voice if your goal is to get people to actually listen to what science has to say. What’s needed is a spokesperson like Neil deGrasse Tyson who does those cool shows on Astronomy for PBS. Would you agree that the best bet for science is to ignore the religious conflicts and just present the facts and evidence in a clear way? Focusing on the religious conflicts is akin to teaching the controversy.
I actually saw that show you referenced. I don’t really agree with you that “it was basically 10 minutes of right-wingers denouncing the public school system far and wide as an utter failure with apparently nothing but degenerates in its institutions, and watching video of them feed the Bible straight to their children.” The piece was part of “Religion and Ethics News Weekly”, and thus the focus was on homeschooling from the religious perspective, perfectly in keeping with the goals of the show. The piece also included the dissenting view, and they found a very articulate person to present that view, and he presented it well. In no case was the reporter’s opinion given or were editorial comments made. The facts were presented, and we the viewers were left to decide what we feel about it.
Mena,
Might I suggest that argumentum per dictionary isn’t the best approach to take, particularly when you admit that all that was a bit before your time?
Of course, if you’ll permit me to borrow the No True Scotsman technique once you are done with it….
BlueIndependent:
Exactly.
Here’s an anecdote: I got dragged off to a Seybold convention some years ago. Now I’m something of a purist: I’d imagined rubbing shoulders w/all these computer programmers/nerds/etc. I expected a fairly subdued bunch of professionals, both in & out of the booths.
What I found were a # of vendors who varied widely, from carny to car salesman. 1 smart fellow who employed a gorgeous female model to demonstrate his digital camera: 1 guy who had a pre-set ‘dialogue’ w/an obvious film: & freebies handed out right ‘n left (my boss, who took me there, tried to tug a lava lamp given to me outta my hand).
It was, in short, a circus atmosphere.
Bread & circuses, is what we need.
Here’s where this ‘museum’ was a smart move: little boys LOVE dinosaurs. I know I did.
So how do we make evolution fun? Do we pass out stickers for flu shots that say ‘EVOLUTION INSIDE’ or something?
Err…Harlan Ellison, firebrand, speculative fiction writer (call it sci-fi around him, & duck!), & yes, avowed secular humanist.
Fusilier, I agree the dictionary is unnecessary in this case, and I must also reveal that the Weathermen stuff was way before my time, too, but Mena’s point (which seems to have evaded you up to now) is that “Radical Leftist Revolutionaries” <> “Liberals”. It’s no more complicated than that. No logical fallacies required.
Regarding the Weatherman…
It was not before my time, but the Boston Tea Party was….
Point being, when you have to work this hard to make a point, the point is made.
There are no organized liberal subversive groups, bombing wingnut museums. We are not in 1968 and the wingnut brigade has nothing to fear but an intelligent audience.
A very small correction:
“While the Chinese were tying knots to symbolize thoughts and developing writing.”
Not quite.
Writing was invented, as far as we can tell, ONCE. Somewhere in the middle East.
Modern Chinese is the last remanant of cuneiform.
Elsewhere/when, syllabaries, and then fully alphabetic scripts were developed.
Well, that’s certainly possible. There’s a lot of debate over whether Chinese writing is related to Indus Valley writing, or if it evolved independently some time around the 16th Century BCE. There are even Chinese carvings that date back to 6000 BCE (several thousand years before cuneiform), which might be proto-writing, proving that it was an independent invention. Or might simply be art.
There doesn’t seem to be enough consensus on the issue to make a definitive statement either way.
Despite this, the idea that writing was only invented once is still a controversial one – the majority of language historians believe that Mesoamerican writing was developed independently of any other system, though a few people have suggested a link between Chinese and Mesoamerican writing systems. Possibly some of the Pacific Island writing systems (such as Rongorongo from Easter Island) might also represent an independent invention.
Squeaky,
I agree that Dawkins would not make the ideal candidate for his said complete opposition to religion as a principle. I think the model of a “Bill Nye, Science Guy” is what should be promoted and put out there for kids and some teens. The other is to have biology summer camps or something like that where kids learn skills AND science. Bill it as summer school, but with fun.
Also, give education and tax credits for choosing science-based career paths in college. Fill the country’s mental coffers again with great thinkers and scientists, much as we had at our disposal for combatting the USSR during the cold war, and for pushing technology forward. The US needs to regain its stature internationally with respect to good science work and progress. Thankfully we have people like PZ to help keep evolution going.
And perhaps find a different system for funding research. The whole grant structure for conducting scientific research sounds tenuous and somewhat unsustainable, especially if opinions turn negative toward the research being conducted. I’m sure there are plenty of reasons why grant-based research is good, but I think the economics, like the marketing of scientific ideas, may need to change. I admit that I am wholly ignorant to comment further on this though.
As for my attributing that quote to Keith Ellison, forgive me. My Sci-Fi book conquests are very few.
BlueIndependent,
I agree fully. We are slipping into a competetive disadvantage by slipping away from science as we are. It’s economically disastrous–perhaps that is something that should be stressed, since Republicans seem to pay more attention when their pocketbook is threatened…
1. In West Germany (later fled to East).
2. Communists. Hardcore communists, and mighty proud of it, like the Weatherman types. If you call everything “liberal” that isn’t conservative, communists are liberals, but in that case, I humbly submit your ignorance has retained Cre_ti_nist proportions.
On writing systems… cuneiform has almost from the start been more phonetic than Chinese has ever been. Classical Sumerian is like Japanese: half syllabic. I haven’t seen any evidence so far to connect Chinese and cuneiform or the Indus script or the Mesoamerican scripts (which again worked like Japanese). — Rongorongo is unlike any other script, period. The idea for its creation seems to come from Spanish — the discoverers of Easter Island had the natives sign a document of submission and then sailed away to return only centuries later –, but that’s all. It’s purely ideographic, unlike Chinese, and the characters themselves aren’t similar in the least.
1. In West Germany (later fled to East).
2. Communists. Hardcore communists, and mighty proud of it, like the Weatherman types. If you call everything “liberal” that isn’t conservative, communists are liberals, but in that case, I humbly submit your ignorance has retained Cre_ti_nist proportions.
On writing systems… cuneiform has almost from the start been more phonetic than Chinese has ever been. Classical Sumerian is like Japanese: half syllabic. I haven’t seen any evidence so far to connect Chinese and cuneiform or the Indus script or the Mesoamerican scripts (which again worked like Japanese). — Rongorongo is unlike any other script, period. The idea for its creation seems to come from Spanish — the discoverers of Easter Island had the natives sign a document of submission and then sailed away to return only centuries later –, but that’s all. It’s purely ideographic, unlike Chinese, and the characters themselves aren’t similar in the least.
The alphabet was probably invented a single time, but that’s a different story…
The alphabet was probably invented a single time, but that’s a different story…
Squeaky, that is exactly the way the point should be made to adults.
I’ve mentioned this in discussions with evolution supporters before. People need to know the benefits; otherwise, if they don’t and remain ignorant about the very good results, people will be swayed by a republican politician looking to come in and make some changes by cutting important education budgets to specific science programs, all in the name of “serving the taxpayer”. Which again gets back to using language people can understand.
I am very happy to report that I’m one of the 59 million who could not possibly drive to Ohio in one day. Northern California.
But I think, for most people, “one day’s drive” means 400 miles. We drive from Sacramento to Anaheim to visit relatives, and that takes us about 7 hours, which, if you have kids, is just about the practical limit. We have driven from Sacramento to Vancouver, BC, and I hated it.
So, yeah, saying Ohio is within a day’s drive for 2/3 of Americans is a stretch. But that region is populated pretty heavily.
I love the way they’re trying to look so brave in the face of threats. I’d like to see those threats. I’d like it if they reported every single one to the local authorities. FBI, police, sheriff, whatever. Report ’em all.
That’d be a grand total of zero, I’m thinkin’.
Kevin, I like your idea a lot, but as others have observed, since it’s private property, those groups would just get the boot, permanently. I really think the best idea is to ignore these ignorant fools. Go to Lawrence Hall of Science, or Monterey Bay Aquarium, support Point Reyes and/or Point Reyes Bird Observatory (PRBO), as my family and I do.
You cannot teach the controversy when there’s no controversy to teach.
The absolutely BEST thing creationists can do is to build museums. You can’t sidestep and back pedal very much when you have reified your beliefs in under glass, in plaster and Lucite, and written them on the walls. Especially if you charge something for people to get in.
I wish there was a creationist museum near me. Unfortunately, we mainly have Paul Bunyon statues and the like.
Their local congressman is Geoff Davis? Like Jeff? As in Jefferson?
Just how far south are they?
Slightly OT, but here’s something from the article SLC linked:
Made me giggle.
Mena,
Not to extend another pedantic argument over where liberalism ends and leftism begins, but the Weathermen were as close, if not more so, to mainstream American liberalism as Rudolph or McVeigh were to aspects of the mainstream American right and had strong organization ties to the New Left, primarly due to drawing heavily from SDS leadership, which integrated into the liberal political establishment. The point is whether or not your definition of liberal includes them, they were as ideologically close to their respective mainstream as their violent counterparts on the right, making your initial comment historically ignorant.