Scale Model of a section of the Ark by Russ McGlenn
I blew it off again this year: I just don’t have a strong enough stomach for it. Every year, the Twin Cities Creation Science Association sponsors a science fair, and I tell myself I ought to go see it, but I know what to expect, and I just can’t bring myself to see a bunch of kids getting intellectually abused.
It’s pretty much like any other science fair, which means that 90% of it is utter dreck that kids have done because it was required of them, and 10% is real enthusiasm and an honest appreciation of good but simple science. The TCCSA science fair is a lot like ordinary science fairs, and plainly borrows heavily from the usual rules of science fairs, but it has a few differences.
Every exhibit is required to display a Bible verse.
The exhibits have an unusual goal:
Five things to remember:
1. Know your material.
2. Be Confident.
3. Communicate well.
4. Be thorough.
5. Pray your exhibit will witness to non-Christian visitors.That is one of our main goals at the Science Fair.
Their questions are peculiar, and unfortunately, they have to lie about what evolutionary biologists do.
Evolutionists ask this question:
How can I prove that evolution is true (and God does not exist). This may not be stated in this way, but is inferred by their writings. Darwin and others have said that if evolution is true, there is no need for God.Creation scientists need to ask this question:
What can I learn about myself, God, and God’s plan for the universe as I study His creation today. I believe true science is a way to learn more about God and ourselves. It is a living class room in which God is the Instructor and we the students. Jesus used common things in nature to illustrate his principles as he taught.
There is a list of suggested research topics that range from the trivial and inane, to reasonable science fair topics, to ludicrous religious babble:
3. Make a computer model of the Flood currents.
4. Statistical occurrence of giants, and midgets and dwarfs and giantism. Use Princess Flo, Goliath, and brothers. [Calling Jim Pinkoski!]
6. Build and run studies on a strata forming wave tank. This would confirm or disprove strata are all laid down at the same time. See http://www.icr.org/newsletters/impact/impactoct00.html and video tape Evidences: The Record & the Flood from Geoscience Research .
12. Trilobites prove Noah’s flood because they are curled up or not?
13. Do Lilydale closed clam fossils support a world wide flood? Collect 100 shells and compare.
35. Why does the Bible say there is one glory of the sun, one glory of the moon, and one glory of the stars?
52. What was the weather like before the Flood?
53. Were all the animals friendly to man before the Flood? Idea: raise several baby animals like snake and mouse together to see if they remain friends as they are older.
54. Why do they live longer before the Flood?
56. Why do plants and insects die in the Fall?
58. Why did God create the moon to control the tides?
72. What is God made of?
80. Why did God make pests like bugs and mosquitoes?
92. Why do some animals lay eggs and others bare babies alive? Why did God do it this way?
97. Why did God make birds to fly?
98. Were dinosaurs alive at the same time as humans?
102.Why do we have pimples? Did God goof?
103.Where was the Garden of Eden? Is it around today?
105.What are aliens and are there really any in our world? see Lamentations 5:2, Eph 2:12, Heb 11:34.
112. What is the difference between cold and warm blooded? Why did God do it this way?
There are photos of this year’s fair online. Browsing through them, I don’t see any sign of the kind of idiocy espoused above, and in fact it looks most ordinary: a mob of cute kids, and some goofy posters, some promising. It’s just too bad it’s all warped and run by a bunch of dingbats.
If I was young enough to enter, I would choose topic #72 and my project would reveal the answer: the FSM is made of pure, holy, nutritious semolina!
102.Why do we have pimples? Did God goof?
Why, pray tell? How about hemorrhoids? Evolution has clear answers. But I’m interested in any suggestions from the religious. Did his almightiness goof?
“92. Why do some animals lay eggs and others bare babies alive? Why did God do it this way?”
Do creationist babies emerge from the womb fully clothed?
“Creation Science” is so 1980. Haven’t these people gotten any of the memos since then?
the “sense siblings” is a total rip-off of my 5th grade science fair project.
minus the Bible verse.
The biggest problem with the so-called “common sense science” stuff these people espouse isn’t so much that its religiously-based, it’s that it’s incredibly SIMPLISTIC. They’ve never learned that what’s good enough for a 6th grader’s project won’t cut it in college or the real world of scientific discovery. (I especially think it’s interesting, though, that they claim to recognize cause & effect in science, yet not the cause & effect of evolution.)
If this is real, the line between parody and reality has been lost forever.
I guess it’s real. One of the photos learly shows a baking soda volcano. If it was a parody, they’d at least have had a picture of a kid doing the thermits reaction instead.
Make a computer model of the Flood currents.
Who on Earth knows enough about partial differential equations to write a CFD code, but is ignorant enough about them to violate conservation laws that badly?
53. Were all the animals friendly to man before the Flood? Idea: raise several baby animals like snake and mouse together to see if they remain friends as they are older.
If you raise a cat with rodents, at least some cats will not kill/eat their apparent siblings. Some, on the other hand, will . . .
72. What is God made of?
Do they get to use spectroscopy? core samples?
80. Why did God make pests like bugs and mosquitoes?
Hmm .. . creationist ecology?
92. Why do some animals lay eggs and others bare babies alive? Why did God do it this way?
Bare babies? What kinda sicko science fair is this!? And why can’t they spell?! (and what on earth can the kids come up with for ‘why’? seriously.
97. Why did God make birds to fly?
A hole is to dig. A bird is to fly.
102.Why do we have pimples? Did God goof?
It’s God’s punishment for thinking about sex. Look at the correlation!
103.Where was the Garden of Eden? Is it around today?
I think it may have been recently blown up . . .
105.What are aliens and are there really any in our world? see Lamentations 5:2, Eph 2:12, Heb 11:34.
What?
112. What is the difference between cold and warm blooded? Why did God do it this way?
Again, what’s up with the “why”? What on earth could the kids say?
From the whole list
“8. How much voltage or current can a human take before he is killed? . . .
22. Could a person function without thumbs?”
Inquisition training?
87. How does Novocain work?
Just ask someone working on #22 for help . . .
“83. Why do people believe in Evolution?
84. What events caused them to become evolutionists?”
Ha.
“Unlike Some Science Fair Sites
We Are For Real!
Unlike Many Secular Educators
We Teach The Scientific Method!”
Oh, I get it, it’s opposite day!
That’s the weird thing – they do make a desultory attempt to involve the scientific method, but the list of possible topics is full of things that – creationist silliness aside – are just ridiculously bad candidates for this approach. I mean, that’s a traditional feature in real science fairs too, of course, but I think now they tend to try to make an effort to steer kids right?
“Do creationist babies emerge from the womb fully clothed?”
Teach the Controversy!!
And whadaya mean, emerge from the womb? You dogmatic Birthists! Why are you trying to stifle storkist science? (Of course, it’ not necessarily a stork. We’re not saying it’s a stork. Maybe it’s an albatross, or a bat, or a really large moth. Or a cabbage. But the point is, you can’t explain every detail about giving birth, so there!)
Cue a little kid chasing his sister around and around the kitchen table with a saw.
Some of them look fairly interesting – and I like the skeletal lettering on the human body poster . . .
And someone has slime mold! Not sure if it’s anything besides ‘Look, slime mold!’ but still . . .
Hmm . . .somewhat built a siege weapon . . .
Ha! “Parakeet genetics: the next generation”
don’t follow that line of investigation too far, boy . . .
Local folks – maybe it’s letter to the editor time? Creation Science Fair just happened, certainly within their rights, probably only way these kids can get to do science, but really, given that it’s the 21st century and these kids – our nation’s kids – are going to be competing with the rest of the world . . .
“Cue a little kid chasing his sister around and around the kitchen table with a saw”
There are a lot of those in the list – it’s a bit worrying . . .
72. What is God made of?
Thankfully, Willy Wonka answered this for us a long time ago…
Come with me
And you’ll be
In a world of
Pure imagination
Take a look
And you’ll see
Into your imagination
I wish I were a kid again. I’d whip up something on “Why God Wants to Hurt Us So Much.”
Contestants will be vying for the coveted Michael Behe Award, named for the 1964 winner who built a small-scale Mount Rushmore, complete with Arm & Hammer volcano.
Yeesh:
105.What are aliens and are there really any in our world? see Lamentations 5:2, Eph 2:12, Heb 11:34.
Looks like the only part to this project is looking up the word aliens. Or a different translation.
Lamentations 5:2. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens.
Eph 2:12, That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise,
Practiscing with wave tanks and flumes (topic #4) is something I didn’t get to do until my undergrad! Creationist children are spoiled.
If I had a solid scientific background and lived near there, I would’ve shown up and tried to enlighten as many of those kids as I could, before being asked to leave.
But that’s just me.
I’d like to know more about those Dueling Diapers, personally. Does that fall under the Bare Babies topic?
Actually many of these questions would be terrific for them to ask, if only they weren’t being guided to the “correct” answer by their mentors. If they were to find out the real answers, it would dash their preconceived religious presumptions about how the world works. I’m going to be participating in a science fair judging with some co-workers in a few weeks. I was quite impressed with some of the entries last time I did it, with the exception of a certain volcano entry ;)
Why isn’t there any hay in that guinea pig project??
Okay, I’ll bite: how did we evolve zits and hemorrhoids?
Hey, what is this anti-“volcano” sentiment I detect?
A plastic “volcano” thing was what got me to nag my parents into buying me my first chemistry set, so many years ago!
Some decent scientific questions, but mostly absrdities
At least no REAL weird ones, such as:
“Did God create alcohol so that ugly people could get sex too?”
“Was Eden a paradise because Adam didn’t have a mother-in-law?”
“Was Eve the first woman to eat her hubby out of house and home?”
“Do dolphins smile so much because they have the biggest members in the mammalian order?”
“When birds get concussion, do they see people?”
“If the meek shall inherit the Earth, why don’t they look more smug about it?”
“Do stars clean themselves with meteor showers?”
“If fundies are made in God’s image, why is there any doubt Satan could do a better job?”
“If you choke a Smurf, what color does he turn?”
“Are the stars tiny holes in God’s carpet through which we see his illuminated abode?”
“Why are wrong numbers never busy?”
“Why are babies born naked?”
“Is fertility inherited?”
“How can you tell the difference between one man applauding, and two one-armed men clapping their hands together?”
“Can you tell the sex of a chromosome by taking down its genes?”
“If talk is cheap, how come phone bills can be expensive?”
“Should we wait until children are old enough to decide for themselves which corner of religion they wish to follow?”
Physicists, beware…the aether is back…
61. What is light? Do Young’s light experiments of 1800 which proves light is a wave. (see Space Medium, Barnes, 1986. p.126)
Read all about it here:
http://galeb.etf.bg.ac.yu/~malovic/muse/barnes.html
This crap is so damned depressing!
“Do creationist babies emerge from the womb fully clothed?” Of course they do. What gets me is how naked with ignorance these poor tots will be when they’ve finally become adults.
“Hey, what is this anti-“volcano” sentiment I detect?”
Because it’s not a science project – it’s a frickin demonstration! I see these at every science fair I judge and I groan…
As for the Trebuchet/catapult, I’m really curious what Bible verse accopanies that one. (though shalt kill by smashing boulders on them?)
One of those projects depicted the Earth revolving around the Sun. I guess that guy got an ‘E’.
Where was the garden of Eden? Talk about begging the question.
It’s also interesting that so many of these topics start with “why,” which is one question that science generally doesn’t ask. One can go out and study a great deal about water, that it has a dipole moment, its ionization constant, etc. One thing you won’t ever see science answer is “Why is there water?” It’s basically a meaningless question.
As for the Trebuchet/catapult, I’m really curious what Bible verse accopanies that one. (though shalt kill by smashing boulders on them?)
Genesis 19: 24-25. perhaps?
“Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. ”
Amen!
Trilobites prove Noah’s flood because they are curled up or not?
This one I dont know.
Does that mean that evolution is a fantasy and Dr Behe is right?
5. Pray your exhibit will witness to non-Christian visitors.
So these kids not only have to work around not offending their fundie parents AND stick a Bible verse on the result–they’re also expected to convince the rest of us?
Does Minnasota have emancipated minor laws? I imagine that for many of them, age 18 can’t come too soon.
I’d like an answer to Question #80.
Why DID God create pests like bugs and mosquitoes and Behe and Dembski?
54. Why do they live longer before the Flood?
Because it’s hard to breathe under water.
56. Why do plants and insects die in the Fall?
Because they forgot their parachutes.
Stupid creationists. Oops, sorry I mean stupid cdesigniotsisists. Whoops!
Re: anti-volcano sentiment
Because what would you rather see – some silly little carbon dioxide bubbles or this?
Oh God help us now…
Ha!
Minnesotans have outdone the exquisite Landover Baptist parody!
As the Discovery Institute might say, Life imitates art!
Since I can’t post pics (as seen here):
HYPOTHESIS
Darwin was Wrong
EXPERIMENT
Read the Bible
RESULTS
God said it
I believe it
That settles it
Hypothesis proven
One day there came to the city two rogues who set themselves up as weavers. They said they knew how to weave the most wonderful cloth in the world. The patterns and the colors were marvelously beautiful, they said; but the cloth could not be seen by anyone who was stupid or unfit for his office.
If you see bare babies, what does this say about you?
It’s apparent that I don’t have the sense of humor about this garbage that everyone else does, for this just makes my heart sink! It’s like seeing children in Ku Klux Klan outfits. And yet…there’s such a creationist market out there, and it would be rather fun to direct/co-opt/destroy the next big creationist bandwagon rather than merely react to it (for example, they’re replacing the words “intelligent design” with “sudden appearance” in the latest issue of “Of Pandas and People”). Someone brought up on the old Pharyngula site the idea of writing a crap book and then disavowing it later. Has anyone really done this? What are the ethics of doing this, rather than just creating a parody website?
Someone brought up on the old Pharyngula site the idea of writing a crap book and then disavowing it later. Has anyone really done this?
I believe there is a ‘mole’ in the Discovery Institute right now ….
If this is not a spoof, someone over there is hilariously ignorant.
Sir John Thomas discovered the electron.
Actually, Jospeh John (J. J.) Thomson discovered the electron. John Thomas is a character from Lady Chatterly’s Lover. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to learn which one.
65. What affects skin color? Is one color better than another? What was God’s purpose in this?
Oh my goodness.
Q: Is God made of quintesence or phlogiston?
How could you prove this?
A: Quintesence.
Finding a bible verse that sugests this.
Science is so much easier when its not science!
I’d encourage my kids to use for Matthew 13:31-32 as their quote…
13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
And then show them how to disprove it.
how the hell do you scientifically test any of these questions anyway? What do kids do? These are philosophical questions
holy shit. No pun intended. Really.
Scrolling through the pictures, the one that caught my eye was the one captioned:
The Lucas-Bergman model of the atom draws an interested visitor
err, what? Naturally, I googled for it – and it linked straight back to the original website, with an explanation of what they’re talking about.
Oh. Shit.
(emptying mouth of coffee recommended)
http://www.tccsa.tc/adventure/adventure_books.html
a sample:
The Bohr Model has 3 assumptions known to be wrong.
Relativity and Quantum Theory, based on the Bohr Model, cannot give a true picture of God’s Creation.
Relativity and Quantum Theory, deny design and a creator God.
Somehow, that this is only two things doesn’t seem important. Also this:
The new model defines light as a wave and explains its movement in outer space. It rejects the duality principle that light is both a wave and a particle (a logical contradiction and an assumption inconsistent with God’s nature and design).
oy.
But this is presumably what is behind the suggestion to repeat Young’s double slit experiment to “prove that light is a wave”.* I wonder what would happen to an entrant who did an experimentto replicate the photoelectric effect? Would they get a fail?
This is the stuff they’re teaching kids? Words fail me.
*Incidentally – as it turns out, googling for “young double slit” isn’t work safe. Who knew?
You volcano skeptics need to discover ammonium dichromate – seeing a demo with it at the age of 11 is one of the main reasons I’m a chemist today. The guy wouldn’t tell what he used, and I HAD to know!
This falls under the “string random scientific words together to look smart” department, I think.
No, an exorcism. The photoelectric effect is the Devil’s tool.
98. Were dinosaurs alive at the same time as humans?
Answer: Other than birds, no.
Aris,
Didn’t you get the memo? Pimples and hemmorhoids are an affliction upon the wicked, like all diseases. Let us thank a loving god for punishing sinners so.
-jcr
Some more ideas:
102: If you cut your left hand off, will God make it grow back?
120: What happens to a frog when you put it in a microwave? Why did God make it do this?
131: Do insects fly in circles if you pull the wings off one side of their bodies? Relate your answer to Proverbs 12:10
92. Why do some animals lay eggs and others bare babies alive? Why did God do it this way?
Why so some animals lay eggs in babies? Why did God do it this way?
oh, man, I’m going to be sitting here reading this tripe forever at this rate. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry, but it has a horrible car-wreck type of fascination to it; I just can’t help but keep clicking through links finding more and more jaw-dropping idiocy.
The full list of projects is just a hoot. I’m trying to visualize what kind of experiments the writer thinks kids are going to construct around these suggestions.
Among the suggestions for projects:
The mind just boggles.
I’m curious about “72. What is God made of?”
I didn’t believe any christian would think of a god in those terms. But, if a god is made of something, is that a proof of intelligent design? Is a god irreducibly complex? Is Behe right? Perhaps in such a fantasy world.
(It would be fun to read a scifi where the gods are intelligently designed (but no identity of that creator given) but nature naturally selected as usual. And a guy named Behe would be the main priest/buffoon that goes mad due to the inconsistency. Have Terry Pratchett done that already?)
Turns out Pratchett has written “Small Gods”, which I now must read. I hope it finally answers why there are DWARFS and PYGMIES.
Not from that, but from “Lords and Ladies”, we learn implicitly what gods are made of:
“Much human ingenuity has gone into finding the ultimate Before.
The current state of knowledge can be summarized thus:
In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded.
Other theories about the ultimate start involve gods creating the universe out of the ribs, entrails and testicles of their father.[*]
There are quite a lot of these. They are interesting, not for what they tell you about cosmology, but for what they say about people. Hey, kids, which part do you think they made your town out of?
[*] Gods like a joke as much as anyone else.”
So gods are made of ordinary stuff, since they are used to make ordinary stuff; at least the gods we know something material about. Probably makes sense to religious people.
Ah, Prachett – just finished Thud. Good.
Somebody should do a creationist/general pseudoscience version of “Where’s My Cow?”
Lords and Ladies. What a book. Has the best demonstration of semantic drift I’ve ever seen . . . And Oggham . . . brilliant. Just brilliant.
3, 6, 12 etc mentioning the “Flood” would br good.
Given that there was a local, but large and devastating flood when the Euxine lake was overtopped and filled up to what is now the Black Sea, in approc 5650BC.
And the surviving refugees all spread around, with a silghtly different version of the “Great Flood” – which is was – even though it did not cover all the Earth.
97. Why did God make birds to fly?
What? You gave me an F? Goddamnit! What’s wrong with my display? My kiwi, penguin, dodo, and ostrich pictures look goddamn beautiful!
Goddamnit!
This is not what I had in mind when I said that volunteering to help in local science fairs was a good thing.
53. Were all the animals friendly to man before the Flood? Idea: raise several baby animals like snake and mouse together to see if they remain friends as they are older.
ROTFL! I can’t believe they chose a snake and a mouse for examples. What do they think baby snakes eat, forchrissakes! Are you sure someone didn’t sneak in some suggestions for a laugh?
Actually, I happened to perform this experiment yesterday. Here’s my report.
——————
Friendliness of animals before the flood
Materials and methods: 1 baby snake and 1 baby mouse were used.
The baby mousy didn’t feel so well because it had been in the freezer. But death didn’t exist before the flood so actually we can disregard stuff like that for this experiment. Moving on to results!
The baby snake went over to the baby mouse and he must have liked her because he gave her a nice long hug. Then it looked like the snakey wanted to kiss the mousey so I closed my eyes because it was a bit naughty looking! Then the mouse went hidey-seeky and I did not find it enymore.
So the baby snake and mouse were realy friendly and liked to play with each other. This proves that they were friends before the flood. But now I am a bit woried because the snake has sort of a big belly now and I thought he was a boy. If it’s a girl, is it possible she sinned with the mouse even though they were not married? Should I smite her then? Can I get extra credit for that?
Hey PZ, where was this “science” fair held? If you look in the background in some of the photos it looks like a Barnes and Nobel type store (just curious).
Peter k, you owe me a new keybord as I spit coffee all over it reading you post. “Why are wrong numbers never busy?”, Priceless!
It’s all one great exercise in assuming facts not backed by evidence, isn’t it?
My fave is this one —
74. What happens to eyes so you need glasses? Did God design them poorly?
If you answer ‘yes’, do you get hauled off for some Maoist-style ‘re-education’?
How low have we gotten as a society that this type of crap gets passed along as science? When will the creationists get the fact that true science and religious belief are not mutually exclusive? Even the Pope declared that evolution happened. He recognized the scientific evidence for evolution and embraced it because it was TRUE.
OK, here’s another question for a science fair project:
Why would God create people who are too stupid to see scientific facts? Should God allow them to reproduce and bare live babies?
With regards to the esteemed Mr. Pratchett — The Last Continent, while not the best of the Diskworld series, has a brief appearance by the God of Evolution.
Ponder Stibbons, who is the most junior and geekiest member of the Unseen University Faculty, is offered the position of God’s assistant, but quits when he realizes that God’s special project, the pinnacle of His creation, is the cockroach.
But Small Gods is Pratchett’s best book.
About the snake-and-mouse experiment. I’m reminded of this news story from a few weeks ago:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4627950.stm
So snakes and hamsters have started getting along, just like they did in the pre-Fall era. Apparently the world has started becoming slightly less fallen? It’s awfully charitable of God to let that happen, especially given how badly Judge Jones treated him in that Dover, PA case.
“Thud”, “Lords and Ladies”, “Small Gods” – thank you, now I know what to catch up first on Pratchett. I’m sure Nanny Oggs facility in Ogghams Runes will simplify the task. Pharyngula visitors seems to have the very best knowledge. (And with such pointers you find the damnedest things on the web.)
WordNet Dictionary
Noun 1. scientific method – a method of investigation involving observation and theory to test scientific hypotheses
Comment: Evolution Theory has been tested and found wanting; Surely you are big enough to let others test other theories, whether you agree with them or not. Isn’t that what “science” is all about?
WordNet Dictionary
Noun 1. philosophy – a belief (or system of beliefs) accepted as authoritative by some group or school
Synonyms: doctrine, ism, philosophical system, school of thought
Comment: Evolutionism, Marxism, –not science, but philosophy. Every “belief system” looks at the evidence and draws its conclusions based on its own bias. If evolutionists are so cock-sure of their particular prejudice, why waste so much sputum attacking a children’s science-project fair? Grow up and pick on your own size, for pity sake! The lot of you should be ashamed, your comments are disgusting, and you reveal more about your own selves than you realize.
See what
you did!!!!!