Just when I found a reason to give Indiana some brownie points, I’ve found a reason to take them away. Goshen, IN voted against changing an anti-discrimination ordinance to include sexual orientation. Yep, it’s still a-okay to discriminate the gays.
“Some speakers discussed religious reasons for their stance on the law.
“This is an issue of morals, if we start telling people in our schools everything’s okay, where do we draw the line? I want to know where do we draw the line,” said one resident who said he talked with his pastor about the ordinance.””
Oh no, the slippery slope of being an understanding, kind person! …Yep, this sure is an issue of morals: if you want to discriminate against the GLBT community because of your bigotry, then you sir are the immoral one.
It really doesn’t surprise me, though. Western Indiana is fairly religious, with very high numbers of Amish and Mennonites. I’m not saying those particular groups were behind this, but that area has a very small town, country, simple living kind of feel. I complain about Indiana a lot, but to hammer the point home, let me just quote some of my favorite comments from that article:
Want is happening to the morals of this country. Just because Christians choose to honor God and respect the fact that the Bible teaches that a man and woman belong together not a woman and woman or a man or man doesn’t mean we are bigots. A sin is a sin and to say you were born this way is just your way of justifying your sin in your mind. As a christian if I would agree that God made you this way than I would be responsible for your sinning. It doesn’t mean that I hate that person. It just means I hate your sin. Next we will have to make special concessions for sex offenders because they could use the same argument and same hey I was born this way. I’m glad I live in Goshen where the city officials stand up for what is morally right. Do you expect God to keep blessing up if we keep forgetting to follow the Bible.
If we made laws to protect Socially unaccepted behavior then we would have to protect All socially unaccepted behavior opening a Pandora’s box. There are already discrimination laws that cover these things. Let Goshen pass this ridiculous law and they can be the San Fran of Indiana because this behavior is SOCIAL and will attract all that want to engage in it.
Wow looks like the Sodom and Gamorra aficianados lost this one. Score 1 for decent family people.
I do not see where discrimination comes into play because the ordinance changes did not pass. The City of Goshen decided not to add on extra protection for people who have different preferences. There is NO discrimination in that. If I have a preference in having body piercings or a tatoo, I do not expect a town to add an ordinance to protect me. The “small town thinking” and “hypocricy” comments; give me a break. Your use of guilt and put down tactics on people who do not agree with you is sad. It is amazing the ugly ways people have responded to this ordinance not passing. Wow! Stop slamming God and anyone who does not agree with you. Just because Goshen choose not to add special protection for a lifestyle choice does not mean we are filled with hate. I don’t agree with the lifestyle choice, I can still love the person making the choice. We are all human beings and the current ordinance protects those rights. I strongly believe in Christ’s love, for ALL of us.
Everyone else seems to want to talk about how Goshen is so closeminded…Your asking us not to discriminate bc of your opinions and CHOICE to be homosexual…so guess what…if you expect to be heard…so do we. Just because we can actually back our beliefs up with the Bible…and your backing up homosexuality by what?? Bc it feels good? Excuse us all for still having some moral fiber in this sick world!
Where did the morals go? Just because your “gay” everyone else should deal with your problem? ITS WRONG, always has been, always will be – no matter how many laws are passed. Get some help, or keep it to yourself.
I’m just going to stop there because about all that’s going through my head is constant screaming of “IT’S NOT A LIFESTYLE AARRRRHRGGGHGHGHGHHH!!!!”
(Via Friendly Atheist)
I will trade you Sally Kern for anyone else in your state.
I will trade you Sally Kern for anyone else in your state.
"Just because we can actually back our beliefs up with the Bible…"
OMFG.
No. No, you CAN'T "back up" your beliefs with the bible any more than you can "back up" a belief in giant monsters with "Where the Wild Things Are."
FFS.
“Just because we can actually back our beliefs up with the Bible…”OMFG.No. No, you CAN’T “back up” your beliefs with the bible any more than you can “back up” a belief in giant monsters with “Where the Wild Things Are.”FFS.
I went straight but that was boring so I switched back. It's toally a choice, didn't you know?
/lawl
I went straight but that was boring so I switched back. It’s toally a choice, didn’t you know?/lawl
I wonder how many of those comments were maybe by people who are guy, but need being "gay" to be a lifestyle choice because that is what they have been told, and they have made a "choice."
I wonder how many of those comments were maybe by people who are guy, but need being “gay” to be a lifestyle choice because that is what they have been told, and they have made a “choice.”
I could rant out all the anger that that post stirred in me as a gay woman, but I feel two words will do: fucking morons!
I could rant out all the anger that that post stirred in me as a gay woman, but I feel two words will do: fucking morons!
This week, I'm volunteering at a musical theatre camp sponsored by a Baptist church. Along with the requisite singing and dancing, there are Bible stories/etc. The driving point of the week has been "Jesus Loves Everyone" and "Love Your Neighbor As Yourself". This is all well and good, but I wonder if the staff would be nearly as helpful and welcoming if I (a white, cisgendered woman) was gay, bisexual, or transgender.
This week, I’m volunteering at a musical theatre camp sponsored by a Baptist church. Along with the requisite singing and dancing, there are Bible stories/etc. The driving point of the week has been “Jesus Loves Everyone” and “Love Your Neighbor As Yourself”. This is all well and good, but I wonder if the staff would be nearly as helpful and welcoming if I (a white, cisgendered woman) was gay, bisexual, or transgender.
The thing that always pisses me off is it shouldn't MATTER if it's 'just' a lifestyle choice.
I mean yes, one's sexuality seems pretty inate (though more fluid than a lot of people seem to think), but I always kind of feel like the choice/inborn argument misses the important part about how discrimination against consenting adults doing what they want with whom they want is poisonous and stupid.
Philosophy aside, reading the quotes is making me want to beat my head against a wall.
The thing that always pisses me off is it shouldn’t MATTER if it’s ‘just’ a lifestyle choice.I mean yes, one’s sexuality seems pretty inate (though more fluid than a lot of people seem to think), but I always kind of feel like the choice/inborn argument misses the important part about how discrimination against consenting adults doing what they want with whom they want is poisonous and stupid.Philosophy aside, reading the quotes is making me want to beat my head against a wall.
Yeah, Indiana still has a ways to go regarding equal rights. (need sleep… typed rites at first… very different).
I'm actually pretty amazed that each time (so far) that a constitutional amendment defining marriage comes up, it doesn't make it on the ballot. We have that going for us at least.
Yeah, Indiana still has a ways to go regarding equal rights. (need sleep… typed rites at first… very different).I’m actually pretty amazed that each time (so far) that a constitutional amendment defining marriage comes up, it doesn’t make it on the ballot. We have that going for us at least.
I always hate that leap from consensual sex to non-consensual sex as if there were a valid comparison there.
I always hate that leap from consensual sex to non-consensual sex as if there were a valid comparison there.
Ugh, ridiculous. Well, Indiana…not always well known for being progressive, I suppose. Maybe all that sciencey edumacation will come in handy eventually, and as kids get older, Indiana will join the rest of the western world in accepting gays.
Ugh, ridiculous. Well, Indiana…not always well known for being progressive, I suppose. Maybe all that sciencey edumacation will come in handy eventually, and as kids get older, Indiana will join the rest of the western world in accepting gays.
While South Africa suffers from a lot of the same bigotry and homophobia as most places, we are very fortunate to have proper nation-wide legislation protects LGBT's freedoms and rights, including the right to marriage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_South_Africa
I've never understood the way the US allows for states to decide on laws, instead of an all-encompasing national law (particularly criminal law and human rights), let alone some of the states which allow for the public to vote on whether or not they should grant people equal rights. Since when has the majority done what is good for minority groups?
While South Africa suffers from a lot of the same bigotry and homophobia as most places, we are very fortunate to have proper nation-wide legislation protects LGBT’s freedoms and rights, including the right to marriage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S…I’ve never understood the way the US allows for states to decide on laws, instead of an all-encompasing national law (particularly criminal law and human rights), let alone some of the states which allow for the public to vote on whether or not they should grant people equal rights. Since when has the majority done what is good for minority groups?
This is what happens when your moral grounding isn't based on right and wrong but on the demands on a jealous, petty, and inconsistant supernatural being.
I don't remember choosing ot be straight. These theist nuts need to think about how they feel about their husbands/wives. Now, they need to imagine what it would be like if they felt that way about the same sex. Would they be able to choose not to feel that way?
So far no state that has legalized gay marriage has burned to the ground (CA kinda is after revoking the rights of gays though). No greater percentage of children are 'turning gay.'
Its frustrating that people can be so ignorant.
This is what happens when your moral grounding isn’t based on right and wrong but on the demands on a jealous, petty, and inconsistant supernatural being. I don’t remember choosing ot be straight. These theist nuts need to think about how they feel about their husbands/wives. Now, they need to imagine what it would be like if they felt that way about the same sex. Would they be able to choose not to feel that way?So far no state that has legalized gay marriage has burned to the ground (CA kinda is after revoking the rights of gays though). No greater percentage of children are ‘turning gay.’Its frustrating that people can be so ignorant.
You called them amoral for wanting to be bigoted against gays, and that is not correct. They are IMMORAL for wanting to do such a thing.
You called them amoral for wanting to be bigoted against gays, and that is not correct. They are IMMORAL for wanting to do such a thing.
Honestly, I couldn't read the excerpt there, Jen. I tried, but the first word of the excerpt made me go "No fucking way".
Honestly, I couldn’t read the excerpt there, Jen. I tried, but the first word of the excerpt made me go “No fucking way”.
And that is (mostly) why I hate small towns.
And that is (mostly) why I hate small towns.
Sivi,
There are definitely lifestyle choices that are reasonable to discriminate against. Character is an important part of deciding whether one would want to work with someone else. If I don't want to work alongside someone who hates my music, I shouldn't have to hire them.
The question is whether being gay is that sort of thing, which is why it's relevant to determine whether it's a lifestyle choice in the first place.
Sivi,There are definitely lifestyle choices that are reasonable to discriminate against. Character is an important part of deciding whether one would want to work with someone else. If I don’t want to work alongside someone who hates my music, I shouldn’t have to hire them.The question is whether being gay is that sort of thing, which is why it’s relevant to determine whether it’s a lifestyle choice in the first place.
There's no need to engage any of these sad people in debate anyways. We need only calmly remind them these are matters of public policy, not personal religion.
Any statement they may have involving the concept of sin, the edicts or mechanisms of their religion have no place in public policy.
It's only because they're in the middle of nowhere (truly, god's country) that nobody cares enough to take it to a proper court – so these sorts of whackos get to parade their personal agenda to save America from its sins, as if it were actually policy. Lucky for them no one cares enough to stop them. :)
There’s no need to engage any of these sad people in debate anyways. We need only calmly remind them these are matters of public policy, not personal religion. Any statement they may have involving the concept of sin, the edicts or mechanisms of their religion have no place in public policy.It’s only because they’re in the middle of nowhere (truly, god’s country) that nobody cares enough to take it to a proper court – so these sorts of whackos get to parade their personal agenda to save America from its sins, as if it were actually policy. Lucky for them no one cares enough to stop them. :)