“You’ll have to forgive me, these won’t be my best words…”
On this heartbreaking day, Waleed reflects and calls for unity. #TheProjectTV pic.twitter.com/mIOI0eGamb
— The Project (@theprojecttv) March 15, 2019
Fuck white supremacy.
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Art, Fun, & Nonsense.
Oh the everlasting bitter irony that the fascist who killed those people was, indeed, an immigrant, but nobody will call him that, because we all know that white people have the right to live wherever they please.
And then you realise that nowhere is safe, that your muslim friends aren’t safe, that the sweet kids you’re teaching, your kids’ friends aren’t safe.
In comments I’ve made at FtB and elsewhere I’ve been very careful to call this man what he is -- a foreigner, who killed New Zealanders.
I’ve facetiously suggested elsewhere that the New Zealand government should announce an immediate temporary moratorium on all immigration until they figure out what’s going on. Immigration from Australia, that is, obvs.
It really is worth saying that, since Queen Elizabeth came to the throne, the number of mass shootings done by New Zealanders can be counted on one hand, and in only one case was the casualty count into double digits. This, in a country with some of the most relaxed gun laws in the developed world. Such violence is common in the USA and elsewhere, but to bring it to somewhere as peaceful and safe as New Zealand is doubly abhorrent.
The FreethoughtBlog “Reprobate Spreadsheet” doesn’t take comments. The most recent post contains this line:
He was not a New Zealander. Could someone indicate this egregious error to its author via an appropriate channel?
Seriously, sonofrojblake, that is what seems most worthy of commentary here?
Seconding rq. What’s your goal? Distance New Zealand, as if tge dude hadn’t been living there for at least long enough to legally own semifuckingautomatic weapons?
rq & Gillierl -- my son is correct to ask this error be corrected. It is important to be accurate, and as he says, there is no way that any of us can contact reprobate, either by comment or email.
Australia has deported a number of Kiwi criminals, many of whom have no connection to NZ other than being their place of birth. Many have been in Oz since they were under 2. Sent back to NZ with no whanau, no friends, no support network, they have little hope for a better life, but Morrison and Dutton have washed their hands.
I am agitating for NZ to try and convict and then immediate deport the slimeball. It won’t bring the dead back, but it will be fun watching Morrison and Dutton run for cover.
Kia kaha Christchurch.
I’m calling for the banhammer.
Seconding request for banhammer.
50 dead people, 40+ more injured, and you split hairs about the white terrorist’s nationality, because of course NZ is immune to the internet, white supremacy and bigotry in general. How about taking responsibility for those NZ gun laws that made it possible for him to do thus in NZ, not Australia?
The gun laws that, yes, they are talking of changing asap. But can we say horse, stable, door?
Banhammer? For pointing out that this atrocity was carried out on New Zealanders by a foreigner? Seriously?
Absolutely vile sickening victim-blaming bullshit. And YOU think *I* should be banned? Wow.
Sonofroj, the problem here is we have people looking through the lens of America. Perhaps if they’d take the plank from their eyes for a moment, they would see that even with some of the laxest gun laws in the West, NZ has very little gun crime.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_New_Zealand
I doubt any of them have visited Aotearoa or Te Waipounamu but know all there is to know about it.
For a place that calls itself “free thought”, there is far too much hive mind here and I am sure that Caine would be disgusted.
I’m over and out of here -- I have far better battles to fight. There are Muslims who need empathy, Lesbians who need defending from Men shutting them down, workers who can’t earn enough to support their families, and politicians to egg.
Tribalism ruins everything.
But we can split hairs about him being an immigrant… ?
What you clearly don’t understand:
Australians are always Australians in NZ and New Zealanders are always New Zealanders in Australia -- it’s part of the special bond/rivalry we share. Being an immigrant is irrelevant.
We Australians owned this terrorist as soon as we found out. This is our export, our terror that we inflicted on our NZ cousins and it is absofuckinglutely important to us that this distinction is made. I don’t expect anyone from Europe to understand this but…
Banhammer? Seriously? For that?
If you are going to continue using Cain’s art on this blog you could at least conduct it as she would have.
Gobi don’t go “but Caine” on me, not here, not now.
That’s a fucking shitty thing to do anyway, trying to silence and gaslight us, but especially here in this thread, which has now become about the hurt feefees of two white men.
Gilliel -- I thought long and hard before saying that. I almost walked forever with no comment at all. I can still walk if you want -- no need to ban me too.
This is me. You know who I am. What you and rq did was wrong and I’m calling it.
C would never have shut a conversation down like that. That’s why I said it.
You have misread this. There are very strong feelings happening here and a lot of it involves what NZ stands for as a country.
..and to bring skin colour into it just doubles down on your ignorance of NZ.
As opposed to what? A tirade about immigration? You really need to get an education about NZ…
Look, I posted some words from a practicing Australian Muslim, and this whole thread has become about how some other blog got the terrorist’s nationality wrong. I’m sure you can email the author to complain about that, not come and shit here and then feel all hurt because this post was supposed to be about the feelings of muslins.
If the nationality is important, go and straighten us out in TNET, if you must teach us about the fine nuance of Australian/NZ relations, but I would prefer that you not bring other blog issues here. This post isn’t about that.
And “but Caine”? Caine also strongly disliked other blog problems dragged into her space, as well as the centring of a white man’s identity over the pain of the victims. gobi, this post isn’t about nationality, but about those most closely hit, and no, that isn’t all NZers, the killer targeted muslims. I doubt white people are going about their daily business with nearly as much fear as muslims all around the world are doing. That is what this post was for, not the fucking white nationalist mass murderer.
Sorry, still misreading rq: The first comment here set the tone, not some misguided comment about another blog. And the Banhammer was used as a replacement for explanation and conversation. Remember, strong feelings by all?
…like being an immigrant? A white immigrant? Gilliel made the first post about nationality. The immigration comment was unwarranted and goes against what you just told me this thread was about. Please don’t blame the derail on the outrage of those reacting to the derail of the first comment.
C’mon guys -- the fact that I was surprised by your response should say something about what has gone wrong in this thread.
Go fuck yourself.
No, this terrorist attack wasn’t about subtleties between Australia and New Zealand. It was about a global rise in white supremacy and Islamophobia. It could have happened, and has happened, and will happen, elsewhere. It has happened in Canada and the USA, it has happened in Germany and many other places. The terrorist’s manifesto references global figures of the alt right, he followed people like Pewdipie, Molyneux, Shapiro. It names Angela Merkel as one of his most hated persons. It talked about “The Great Replacement”, a supposed global conspiracy among leaders to replace white people with brown skinned immigrants.
This wasn’t an attack by an Aussi on Kiwis, this was an attack by a white male supremacist on Muslims. And if you think you need to hash out your personal grievances about how unfair it is to bring up race in a terrorist attack that targeted people of colour, think again before I’m getting really pissed, American meaning.
We are sitting here in tears watching the names of the victems go past -- the newsreader just broke into tears.
We have Muslim friends too -- don’t you dare try to adopt the moral high ground with me. Btw, You do know there are white muslims too? Drop the skin colour shit -- it is racist.
Kia kaha.
Gilliel -- you are talking about the terrorist again.
Was this thread about the global issue of attacks against Muslims or the victims in NZ?
“ terrorist attack that targeted people of colour “
Muslims.
gobi
Uh, the post was about the feelings of muslims after the attack (if you watch the video), not the victims themselves -- they have their own post right now. And the feelings of muslims following this attack are pretty globally scared and worried.
This. Because if it was just Australians attacking New Zealanders, why the fuck are my Canadian friends so scared right now?
She made a passing comment about how these things are usually ignored, because it was soon after the attack, and there weren’t enough articles out there stressing the attackers utter foreignness yet. And finished with words about sympathy and feeling fear for friends. Comment #2, okay. Not much expression of sympathy, but they had a point to make, that they are describing this guy appropriately as a foreigner, fine. Starting with comment #3, the issue became a lot more specific, and this is where the problem begins. Without barely any thought paid to the victims or the feelings of the muslim community. Because it was more important to press the issue than think about the post. (I mean, really, “Giliell did it first”? Now I’m surprised.) I am not responsible for someone else’s blog and it is out of line to bring the issue here. That blog somewhere has some form of contacting the author. Those who need to, please use it.
I’ve been reading their names and seeing their faces, too. And I keep seeing the faces of my friends. Which is why I can’t understand why we can’t focus on that right now instead of asking for corrections that this blog is not responsible for. Giliell made a passing comment about how things usually go. I can’t say she was wrong to do so, because hey, these things usually have a pattern (and holy shit Daily Mirror). This does not mean everyone has to continue the derail, because there are more important things to focus on, like grieving. And the fact that our muslim friends need our support.
“Go fuck yourself”
No Giliell. I won’t.
“This wasn’t an attack by an Aussi on Kiwis, this was an attack by a white male supremacist on Muslims.”
Over here it looks like both of those things. Please understand, for us, this is next door.
We will have friends directly affected by this.
For the families of the killed this not a global issue -- did you know they haven’t been able to bury the dead within 24 hours because so many were killed? So tragic.
Back on rail? :) hugs all round. I understand the fear and outrage -- perhaps we all could have said things better. My intent was never to upset anyone, but toes were stepped on and people… react.
I hope you have been seeing Kia kaha everywhere -- stay strong.
Oh my goodness, not that shit again. Muslims are being racialised. Do I know that there are white muslims? You bet I do. One of my nicest and most loving colleagues is a muslim convert. She was born and raised in the same place as me, raised by parents who came from the same place as my parents yet she, with her pastry white skin and blue eyes is racialised. She’s being told to “get back where she came from” because her hijab marks her as “the Other”. I heard pupils call her “the foreign teacher” and I know that principals told her that “someone like her cannot teach German properly”.
Yes, Islam is a religion, not a race, yet is is connected to the skin colour of the majority of the people practising it. It’s not my fault if your understand of these issues is at the level of the New Atheists who go on about how you “cannot be racist against muslims” and whose “religious criticism” is only a thin cover for their racism.
If this had nothing to do with racism then no Sikh or non-Muslim Arab would ever be targeted by those people and my friend wouldn’t be told to leave the country she was born in just like her ancestors.
Yeah, that’s why the terrorist’s manifesto is full of anti New Zealand bigotry..
Yes, and you are the only and very first people to ever have experienced this kind of thing.
Done with you Giliell -- you are off the rails. Shrill rants help no one. Good luck with your global battles -- here we are mourning the dead.
rq -- have just seen the new post. Lovely.
Yeah. Shrill. You couldn’t fit “hysterical” in there, could you?
I’ve given you actual arguments and examples as to why you are wrong, but all you have in counter is to accuse me of “racism” and call me “shrill”.
I’m done with you as well. Go somewhere else to be an asshole. And kudos for the “divide and conquer” strategy on praising rq for a post that says the exact same thing we have said here.
Changed my mind Giliell :)
I know you care. I know you are a good person. I am still trying here :)
My hugs all round comment was for you and rq but you seemed to reject it. I haven’t heard from rq. Not ‘divide and conquer’ at all.
The post *is* lovely.
Giliell
Thanks for having my back on this. *hugs* ♥
gobi
Thank you. Hugs accepted and returned.
(I will ask that you concede that “shrill” was an ill-advised term to use towards a woman making an argument.)
Anyway, what I think we are right now is a bunch of non-muslims arguing about muslims, and I think we should stop.