Really dreadful, you have to read it to believe it. If you don’t want to be disturbed then don’t read below the fold:
Daily Mail — Clutching a bloodied meat cleaver after executing a soldier on a crowded street, he delivers a chilling message of hate. ‘You people will never be safe,’ he declares in a clear south London accent. ‘An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.’ In broad daylight, he and an accomplice had just repeatedly stabbed and tried to behead an off-duty soldier in front of dozens of passers-by.
Throughout the frenzied attack they shouted ‘Allah Akbar’ – Arabic for ‘God is great’ – then demanded horrified witnesses film them as they ranted over the crumpled body. The two black men in their 20s, waited calmly for armed police to arrive before charging at officers brandishing a rusty revolver, knives and meat cleavers.
Disgusting
The religion of pieces.
Were they on bath salts or something?
Marcus Ranum @ 3
Something indeed, fanaticism and religion, in this case specifically allah!
Maybe a clue as to what the mosques are preaching with nod nod wink winks!
They do not get these ideas in isolation, they get told they are martyr’s for Mohammed.
And the religiously afflicted are programmed to believe it.
That is religion in all its glory, the deity is not important it’s just the vehicle.
Imagine if those guys had had access to an automatic weapon, or a mustard bomb, or a nuke. One advantage of the USSR, they were relatively rational. Both the US and the USSR had people who remembered WW2 real well in all kinds of leadership and advisory positions, who didn’t particularly want to gamble their country on something much more destructive unless it really was the last ditch option.
But the weak-kneed authorities apparently know better:
I dunno, when a couple of guys cut another guy’s throat and shout “allah akbar” while doing so, the word “Islam” sort of pops into my head.
It’s acts of such undiluted savagery and barbarity that give the lie to the idea of Islam as a religion of peace.
And the vile idiots never realise that terrorism doesn’t work.
I remember back in the 70’s, back home in London, that the main effect of the IRA bombings was that a very large percentage of the “If you see an unattended package…” warnings on the tube had ‘package’ scrawled out and ‘Irishman’ scrawled instead.
One may not approve of the stereotyping, but they certainly caught the general reaction.
@6.gardengnome
Seconded by me.
Acts like this and bombing marathons and flying planes into skyscrapers and blowing up buses and blowing up marketplaces and shooting hostages in wheelchairs on cruise liners and shooting schoolchildren specifically schoolgirls in the head for wanting an education and rioting and threatening to murder and behead any of those who insult or criticise their dark age warlord pedophile “prophet” whether writers or cartoonists or anyone else.
Lets not gloss this over and minimise it okay?
Let’s not make weak excuses or jump to blame the West or other handy scapegoats like some deluded commenters on Pharyngula seem all too eager to do.
Because this, *this* barbarity and savagery.
This is these scumbags brains on Islam.
No, it isn’t all Muslims.
Most Muslims aren’t terrorists, sure. Good on those who aren’t pursuing the horrendous Jihad that some of them clearly are. No probs with them.
But most terrorists are Muslim of course – just fact.
How many Muslims terrorists and terrorist atrocities though does it take?
Is it really too much to say if this is what Islam drives people do then, no Islam is NOT okay?
When someone in the name of Islamic ideology chops someone to pieces on the street and waves around their blood-stained hands in triumph can anyone really blame people for being pretty upset and accuse them of so-called “Islamophobia” for then criticising this overgrown death cult that worships a murdering child rapist and dark age leader of desert bandits?
“But most terrorists are Muslim of course – just fact.”
What would you call “shock and awe” military strategy, against a country that was preemptively attacked?
What would you call the killing of hundreds of innocents during drone attack in Afghanistan?
What would you call the attack on a house hosting a wedding party?
What would you call an attack from a helicopter of unarmed civilians and the subsequent shooting down of journalists observing?
What would you call black op prisons?
What would you call the delivering of suspects to be tortured by a government in Syria and Libya?
What would you call the killing of several hundred thousand civilians as a consequence of an illegal and “unjust” war?
What would you call the killing of American civilians by its own government without any legal procedure by drone attack?
grumpyoldfart, did you actually read the second article you linked to? The UK authorities are trying to keep right wing assholes from attacking Muslims who had nothing to do with this murder and don’t support such actions. Hell, the attackers apparently wanted exactly that, a violent counterreaction to create “martyrs.” Chances are they think most of their fellow UK Muslims are cowardly backsliders who can best serve Allah by being sacrifices.
@12 – thank you! And there’s more than one example of that obnoxious attitude in the comments thread. It’s just incredible that you even have to explain to people that two murderers don’t tarnish a whole group. Have you thought about all the deaths caused by the right to bear arms and do you think therefore that the 2nd amendment tarnishes all Americans?
Also @11 – quite right also. How easy some people find it to pretend that there is nothing at all behind this but a piece of 7th century Middle Eastern literature.
It’s a sad day for all of us, for many reasons, but one that carries with it the obligation to keep islamophobia in check. And Islamophobia, I regret to say is what several of the comments on this thread consist of.
@ ^ Pen : yeah, no reason to be frightened of Islmaist loons hacking people into pieces onthestreets of London or blowing people up around the globe, that’s just a “phobia” and nothing like it ever really happens – oh wait?
Did you miss the whole article that was written her and the topic by some chance? have you been hiding in a cave for well over a decade or something and missed well all of this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism
taking place in our lifetimes?
Just how much denial are you suffering from? Reality is Jihadists terrorists are regularly committing major terrorist atrocities and have been for a very long time.
@11. kraut : (geez your nym sounds racist btw!) None of that is terrorism. Someof it is regrettable abnd wrong but none of it is technically terrorism.
Words do have actual meanings you realise?
@11. “kraut” the Germanophobe (Deutschophobe?) To specify :
Terrorism specifically means :
Source : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism
Hacking people to death on the streets in the name of Allah for the cause of the global Jihad definitely counts as that.
OTOH, you asked what I’d call these – very clearly none of which are terrorism :
1) What would you call “shock and awe” military strategy, against a country that was preemptively attacked?
Warfare.D’uh!
2) What would you call the killing of hundreds of innocents during drone attack in Afghanistan?
A bare faced lie or piece of disinformation probably since I very much doubt the figure of “innocent” casulaties is that high – those targeted are terrorists and careful efforts are made to avoid innocent collateral damage because that damage harms the Western campiagn as well as being unethical in itself.
Even *if* your figure of 100’s of innocents is correct which I very much doubt – this still falls under the category of warfare where soldiers or in this case enemy terrorist combatants are legitimate targets to be taken out during the process of fighting the Jihadists.
3) What would you call the attack on a house hosting a wedding party?
A tragic mistake during the metaphorical (& perhaps also literal?) fog of war. It wasn’t intentional and whilst I know intent “isn’t magic” it also does make the significant distinction between first degree murder and manslaughter &/or euthanasia in courtrooms. Intent matters.
This wasn’t terrorism – Islamists deliberately targeting a wedding or bar mitzvah or crowded marketplace as has happened in the past numerous times OTOH definitely is terrorism.
3)What would you call an attack from a helicopter of unarmed civilians and the subsequent shooting down of journalists observing?
See above. War sucks, mistakes get made – but that doesn’t make those mistakes acts of terrorism. Do you really need to have this fairly obvious point pointed out to you? Seems you do.
3)What would you call black op prisons?
I’d call them prisons why what would you call them? Oh right – “terrorism” it appears! Which is just silly of you. People get sentenced to prisons because they are accused – rightly or wrongly – of committing crimes. If rightly then the criminals deserve and need to be held there, if wrongly then this needs to be discovered and they need to be released – but this has nothing to do with terrorism apart from that being the crime these people in these specific circumstances are guilty or accused of committing. The prison system is also known as the (say it with me now) justice system. These prisons are to contain (remove from combat) and punish and maybe if we’re lucky rehabilitate where possible criminals and terrorists who seek to do stuff like our two murdering Jihadists in London have done and worse.
4) What would you call the delivering of suspects to be tortured by a government in Syria and Libya?
Also part of the administering of justice. They won’t be tortured without there being good reason for it – this sort of thing isn’t just done for the Lolz whatever some critics may caricature to the contrary. In some -maybe most – cases those Jihadist terrorists being sent to such nations for interrogation are actually either residents initially from such nations or are guilty of crimes in or against those nations.
5. What would you call the killing of several hundred thousand civilians as a consequence of an illegal and “unjust” war?
I’d call it a false and prejudicial premise on your part – also see answer for (1) because that answer applies here too. Its war not terrorism. The legality of the Iraq war is questioned by some but not all and the justice of liberating that nation from Saddam Hussein ditto. That’s a whole other topic but basically removing by force an evil dictator can arguably be counted as a just result even though the aftermath has been far less positive and caused far more suffering than was predicted at the time. Iraq is now free and democratic. Saddam is no longer a threat to regional and global peace.
6. What would you call the killing of American civilians by its own government without any legal procedure by drone attack?
Warfare. If you fight on the enemies side that means you can and often will get killed by your own country-folk – just as if they’d been killed fighting for the Japanese in WWII or killed fighting for China or North Korea in the Korean war. You think American born terrorists (or enemy troops) should have the right to commit as many terrorist attacks as they please without deadly consequences to themselves?
As for drones or UAVs, these are now just part of how modern warfare works and a response to the use of terrorism by the Jihadists. We can like it or not, point to pros and cons, but it really is just the reality just as chariots, triremes and archers were parts of ancient warfare.
Now since I’ve answered your questions maybe you could reciprocate and answer mine to you? :
I) Is english your first language? You don’t seem to know it too well to be so badly confused over the meaning of the word “terrorism” and the difference between that and legitimate warfare. If you aren’t an native english speaker then my tip is to check carefully and learn the definitions of such words before making comments like your # 11.
II) Are you living in the Western world and non-Muslim? Do you realise that those two facts make you a target to people like the London Jihadist terrorists who hacked that man to death then ranted and gloated and attacked the police?
III) Why the blazes would you or anyone seemingly take the side of the murdering Islamist terrorists that are mentioned here and the Islamic side in the broader global conflict generally – seriously what is wrong with you and those (especially on the political Left) who seem to think like you do?
These Islamist extremists (NOT please note here the moderate Muslim majority) are misogynist, homophobic, anti-Semitic (or should I say Judaeophobic?) religious bigots who are evil to the core just like the Stalinist and fascist extremists of the past century. If you took the hatred and nastiness of the MRAs and Christian fundamentalists and super-sized twice you’d maybe get close to the Dark Age beliefs of these Islamist terrorists.
Please take another look at the photo of the Islamist killer in the Opening Post above and tell me – do you *really* honestly think people like him and his extremist Jihadi cause deserve any sympathy and / or support (even purely rhetorically) from any decent human being?
Thanks for letting me know that:
a.germans are a race
b. that as a german i am germanophobe.
as to the remainder……..
Ooops, sorry for the blockquote mess.
@16. kraut :
No worries and,well, what?
You realise that “Kraut” is considered a derogatory nickname for people of German nationality or background – at least it is where I come from, surely?
I don’t believe there is such a thing as “race” at all – not biologically or scientifically in hard quantifiable terms. In terms of labelling or mislablelling others, well talking about “race” at all, let alone judging people, by this sad and deluded notion. The whole notion of “race” stinks and its long overdue that we discard and reject it altogether. Implying there is such a thing as sub-species of Human being is something I think we need to evolve – memetically – our way away from. We are all humans sharing 98% of our DNA (or thereabouts) with chimps and we are well advised to try to treat our fellow human beings, whatever their background with compassion and a basic modicum of respect.
@17. Pen :
Please note that I am NOT saying its all Muslims or that some Muslims aren’t okay people *despite* their religious ideology of choice. (Or parental social influence.)
I am saying that extremist Muslims clearly have some very nasty, dangerous beliefs and do act on them hence such atrocities as happened apparently virtually on your doorstep. Evidenced above in the OP and in our daily news y’know.
Excuse me, you fuckhead brought the term race into the game – so go and jack off, arsehole.
As to kraut – i don’t know where you idiot hail from, and frankly – i do not give a flying fuck.
I grew up German and immigrated when I was past thirty. The name kraut never was a derogatory word for me, it was at the level of “tommy”, “limey”or “frog”, maybe not the most pleasant, but not the worst either.
I really don’t know why you shithead even worry why I approbriate that name – maybe you want to play the concern troll here…after my adressing you you really can into that role, scumbag.
..
And i hope that you refrain from further adressing me. I have more choice words for a jackoff like you in store.
Did i invite you to piss off? Consider it done, jizz bag.