I love to read about acts of sportsmanship and this article highlights six of them at the current Olympics. One of the nicest was the USA’s Simone Biles (silver) and Jordan Chiles (bronze) bowing to Brazil’s gold medal winner Rebeca Andrade at the podium.
Speaking to TODAY about the move, Biles said, “I think it’s all about sportsmanship, and we don’t care whether we win or lose. We’re always going to keep a good face and support our competitors because they’ve worked just as hard as we have for that moment.”
“So you have to give them their flowers,” she continued, speaking about the bow. “And that’s exactly what me and Jordan were doing, and we were so happy for her. She deserved it. She had the best floor routine of the day and in the Olympics. So it’s like, yeah, she deserved it.”
“It was just the right thing to do,” Biles said, according to the Associated Press. “She’s queen.”
Biles seems like a really classy person.
Interesting how ‘sportsmanship’ is rather different to ‘gamesmanship’.
The former is supposedly admirable, the latter likewise deplorable.
Terms that derive from an older era, so they don’t really seem gender-neutral.
Heh. Sure.
That’s exactly how people who get to the utmost heights in competitive sports are.
About as credible as “The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not winning but taking part; the essential thing in life is not conquering but fighting well.”
Being aware that one has to win a fair bit to actually take part (only the best of the best get to compete at that level) kinda spoils the sentiment.
They pretend to believe such obvious bullshit, and we are supposed to pretend to believe they believe it.
How do you know whether Biles believes it or is pretending? Does her undoubted success mean that she must be a phony to be gracious when she falls short? I for one do believe her and do not feel the need to pretend that I do. After all, who cares what I think?
I doubt that many people care whether you believe it or not.
@ Morales
So why bow? Like most conspiracy theorists, there’s no logic underpinning your claims.
Gymnastics is very different from most team sports, in that you always compete as an individual who is also part of a team. Getting to compete in the Olympics is a fantastic experience regardless of winning. There is no losing team in gymnastics, they just get lower scores.
Simone has already won multiple gold medals, and is well known for being a great team captain. If you watch the events, all the teams are supportive and congratulate each other as they come off the floor, regardless of their country. They’ve known each other for years. I’m sure both Simone and Jordan are genuinely happy for Rebekah to win gold. She did a fantastic floor routine.
Obviously, I don’t know that.
I do know athletes at that level take winning seriously. Very, very seriously.
Else, they’d not be at that level.
Um, she’s world-famous and record-breaking and historic and all that. And she got a medal.
Sure. But then, I for one do not believe her and do not feel the need to pretend that I do.
After all, who cares what I think?
That’s fine, I don’t care whether or not they believe whether I believe it or not.
—
Isn’t that the point of commenting? Expressing one’s opinion?
You did in the OP, I did in the comments to the OP, and you’ve reiterated it.
—
Anyway. I’ve played sports at club level, I’ve seen actual athletes at work, and they do bloody well care whether or not they win. Especially professional athletes, whose very life and income and support comes from being a winner rather than a loser.
But sure. I might be cynical. I might be over-generalising.
But what it takes to be a world-class competitor… well. They’d be bloody unusual, I’ve never seen it.
(That’s, of course, different to being a gracious loser)
Performers are performative.
(She’s getting adulation out of it, no? Seems like a rather good reason)
#1 John
Cheaters assume others cheat, the violent assume violence, and you assume expressions of sportsmanship and happiness for another are phony. Strong pre-epiphany Scrooge vibes from you.
Why, thanks, Holms!
In my own world-class performances, I have cheated, and therefore assume other world-class performers also cheat.
<snicker>
Again: one can damn well be sportsman like if one is the world’s best ever female gymnast,.
Record is there.
A bit like the Stoics; they were all upper-class successful people.
Heh.
Strong vibes from you that you’ve never actually been a competitive competitor.
I have.
Not at world-class levels, but for fucking sure we were competitive as fuck.
We did not compete to compete, we competed to win.
Winning is a thing, to those. To me. To any actual competitive person.
(And, I dare say, even to Simone)
But sure. Maybe they really, genuinely, truly and really don’t care about winning or losing.
Obviously, if they don’t keep winning, they won’t even get near the Olympics, but hey.
(What’s motivation gotta do with it?) 😉
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How to put it to such as you?
Remember the Stoics?
For everyone, is Stoicism, no?
“The names of the three best known Stoics—Marcus Aurelius, Epictetus, Seneca—belonged to, respectively, a Roman emperor, a former slave who triumphed to become an influential lecturer and friend of the emperor Hadrian, and a famous playwright and political adviser.”
Very easy to be gracious and generous and whatnot when one is on top of the world, when one is comfortable, when one has power.
@ John Morales,
For someone who appears to be very picky in their language, you’ve made a couple mistakes.
First, while you didn’t say it, you strongly implied that ALL top athletes (capable of being in the Olympics) are so competitive that they cannot be happy when they lose. A single example of this happening disproves your point.
Second, you are proposing a false dichotomy. There is no reason, logically, why any person can’t both train hard, be competitive, do the absolutely best they can, lose and then accept that loss with good grace. Your claim is that people are not like that, which is a different claim than saying it’s logically possible, but these are two different behaviors; working hard and accepting that someone else performed better. You are saying that in your experience the same person cannot feel both, and if they claim they are doing so (losing and not feeling upset about losing) they are lying.
With the second point you can claim that since any top athlete which accepts their loss must be lying, any example someone provides of an athlete being happy to acknowledge they lost is simply that athlete lying about their feelings.
So you have attempted to create a situation where you cannot lose. The simple reading of your claim is that: All top athletes are so competitive that they cannot accept defeat, and if they say they do, they are lying.
Frankly, I reject your argument, because as someone said recently, “People are complex”. I don’t see a reason why someone couldn’t both be very competitive, strongly motivated to win, and yet still admire those who defeated them. In your experience that may be true, but your experience is limited.
Only if the appearance is veridical, right?
You actually mean to claim that given that I appear to be very picky in their language, I appear to have made a couple of mistakes.
(But hey, hobgoblins, consistency)
Not in the slightest.
(Straw dummies are not very nice)
Come on. Quote me.
(You are being jaundiced)
Again, quote me.
I made no such false dichotomy.
I just know the sort of competitiveness (wanting to win!) that is necessary to get to the top.
(Not caring whether one wins or loses, well… not a thing)
Perhaps worry more about what I actually do claim (and not your straw dummy) and less about what I can claim. Sheesh!
This is just sad.
I made no argument.
I merely expressed my opinion.
Worth no more than Mano’s or yours, but an opinion it is.
Not an argument.
(No stated premises with clear definitions, no inferential chain, no attempt at at tautology)
Well, maybe there’s hope for you yet.
Exactly.
In my experience. In my opinion.
(Others can differ, but you write as if it were not a matter of opinion)
—
Anyway.
Here’s how very much she cares not about this stuff: https://www.tmz.com/2024/06/19/simone-biles-cries-after-withdrawing-from-tokyo-olympics-in-new-trailer/
I love that picture above because it shows the best of what people can be. Brazil’s gymnastics program hasn’t been as successful as the USA’s, but on this day, Andrade was better than the rest of the competition, and Biles and Chiles are acknowledging that, smiling and happy for her. Isn’t that the spirit of the Olympics?
John Morales, you come really close to all the nonsense coming from the 4chan trolls and general racists that are losing their minds about Biles in particular (summary: how dare she be good while feeeeeemale and not-white?!?!) and women’s gymnastics in general (how dare women think they can do something and how dare gymnastics allow non-white people to compete?). I guess your one saving grace is that you are saying humans in general can’t be happy when someone they’ve known for years excels. I’m sure Biles has a bit of regret that she went out-of-bounds twice on her floor routine when Andrade’s routine was clean, but she is both classy and happy enough to acknowledge Andrade’s moment of glory.
Many years ago on American Idol, Simon Cowell express disbelief that the competitors (who had spent weeks together) could be happy for each other’s successful performance. I thought it was just Cowell, but maybe there’s a subset of humanity who can’t grasp basic people-ness.
I wish John Morales would stop kicking puppies.
He utterly delights in kicking puppies.
What’s that? No <snicker>; I have no evidence John Morales delights in kicking puppies.
It’s my opinion, worth no more nor less than anyone else’s!
Anyway, I remain disgusted in the utter delight John Morales takes in kicking puppies.
What’s that? Do I have any evidence of John Morales kicking puppies?
Quote where I said I had evidence! I made no such claim! No premises! No inferential chain!
I expressed my opinion. Nothing more.
Why do you suggest there’s anything wrong with me sharing my personal opinion of the puppy-kicker?!
(/snark)
Ah, the Bobulant eructs:
Nope. You don’t.
Not even slightly.
You know I don’t do that.
More to the point, I am not a GOAT. World champion. Famed athlete.
(See, talking about me thus is creepy. Simone makes the news. World-famous. Me… well, to you I am)
The disingenuousness therewith expressed is oleaginous and odious.
You lack any credibility.
No. You did not.
You engaged in what you thought would appear to be clever word-play.
(You are a sad specimen, is what you are)
—
See, that’s the thing.
You lack credibility, so your attempt to ape me fails flat.
I have credibility, so that you attempt to ape me in frustration.
(Hints of competitiveness there, SoiledBob)
Katydid:
In your opinion. For what that’s worth.
Look, she is a most magnificent competitor, exemplar of her discipline, arguably GOAT.
I’m not losing my mind, I’m just not a stupid sap that gets snowed by propaganda.
(Freethinking, it’s a thing)
I remember Nadia Comaneci. First ever 10.
Heh.
It’s because I grasp basic people-ness that I don’t get sucked in to the performative stuff.
I mean, it probably was perfectly genuine, but again: her laurels are safe.
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All this because I don’t believe she cares not whether or not she wins.
These days, hell… may even be true. I doubt it — people’s nature is not that changeable — but it’s not impossible.
is JM OK?
Oddly enough, no one is disagreeing with you about this point. So your continually harping on it is somewhat weird.
All we are saying that we believe that a competitor who works hard, strives hard to win, and cares a lot about winning, can still be happy to acknowledge someone else won and happy for the winner. Your opinion is that that is not possible.
Fair enough.
You idiot. If those that assume cheaters are themselves cheaters, and if those that assume violence are themselves violent, what might the (obvious, yet somehow missed) implication be about those that assume expressions of sportsmanship and happiness for another are phony? Work it out on a slate if you need.
The person think that of me would be wrong. I note however you make no such denial.
Wow, how did those goalposts get so far from their starting point? No one said they do not care about winning or losing, but rather they have grace in defeat and happiness for the winner.
___
Anyway. Quite a heartwarming moment.
@John Morales @1
I think you are confusing someone’s determination to win while participating in an event with their reaction once the outcome is known. And there are graceful winners, graceful losers, sore winners and sore losers depending on how they react.
And
The number of people replying and your responses do imply that people and you “care”. I’d say you haven’t provided any evidence for your statement other than sports people u know react differently which may say more about the company you keep. You should Interpret “care” in the sense of you provided no evidence for your opinion of Biles except anecdotal of your experience and generalized that to everyone in professional sports.
I dont get what you try to imply here -- Either shes won so much so her laurels are safe , so she can afford to be gracious (I think tennis has some examples of players who were sore losers early in their career but who were more graceful after they had a few grand slams) OR she wants to win everything in sight and cares deeply that she wins and masks her disappointment when she doesnt.
God’s death, John, do you have ANY CLUE how fucking stupid you sound quibbling over Biles’ choice of words here? Here, lemme quote the whole answer she gave, ‘cuz CONTEXT MATTERS:
…Biles said, “I think it’s all about sportsmanship, and we don’t care whether we win or lose. We’re always going to keep a good face and support our competitors because they’ve worked just as hard as we have for that moment.”
First, that wasn’t a pre-planned speech, it was an off-the-cuff response during/after an event of exuberance and celebration. She didn’t exactly have time, or any reason, to ring up a stodgy technical writer (like me) to ask for helpful quibbles about such things.
And second, she was saying she didn’t care about winning or losing as much as she cared about sportsmanship. Which is a perfectly appropriate and plausible thing to say after all the winning and losing is done.
(And it’s not like second or third place in an Olympic event counts as “losing.”)
That’s fine, I don’t care whether or not they believe whether I believe it or not.
Yeah, right, you cared so little you only posted SEVEN comments about it. I gotta echo coffeepott’s question @15: Is JM okay?
John M., do you remember the 1998 Olympics when firgure skater Michelle Kwan, heavily favored to win, said “I didn’t lose the gold, I won the silver”?
And that Kwan congratulated the winner (Tara Lipinski) at the press conference immediately after the medals ceremony, and said at the conference “Tara, I like you!”
Here is a press articles written about that (there are many more):
“Of all the losing locker rooms I have visited in two decades as a sportswriter, listening to grown men rationalize ninth-inning errors and air balls at the buzzer,” wrote Mike Penner in a Feb. 23, 1998, column in the Los Angeles Times, “I have never seen anyone cope with crushing defeat with more poise, dignity and maturity than a teen-age girl named Michelle Kwan.”
Just sayin’
@15: follow-up question: is there anyone, anywhere on the planet, who gives a shit?
Re: gymnastics, I pass on an observation I read the other day on Bluesky -- it’s interesting to note the coincidence of
(a) women’s careers at the top level of certain sports becoming longer (i.e. lasting into adulthood) and
(b) it becoming less acceptable for the coaches in those same sports to be paedophiles.
One little-considered benefit of the Olympics being somewhere like France is that those competitors who have overcome the disadvantage of being from backward shithole countries can take advantage of the healthcare available in the civilised world.
https://www.si.com/olympics/american-athletes-taking-full-advantage-of-free-healthcare-olympic-village-france
How is the obvious and well documented support and encouragement that Simone Biles is giving to all the other gymnasts propaganda?
That is a fairly typical aspect of gymnastics. You cheer for your competitors when they do well, and console them if they don’t have a stellar execution. I don’t know how you can cheat to become an Olympic level gymnast? You either can execute a triple, or you can’t, which is why Simone dominates the scoring and wins many gold medals.
Holms is the person who brought up cheating, not me.
—
Why would I not be?
—
I sure got a rather strong reaction, and my words were of course misconstrued.
Again: easy to do that sort of gesture on top of the world.
And again: I don’t for one second believe those top athletes do not care whether or not they win.
Apparently, though I’m fine with others believing that, others are not fine with me believing that.
—
Yeah, but that’s orthogonal to what I wrote.
I quoted the specific claim I addressed: “we don’t care whether we win or lose”.
See, graceful winners, graceful losers, sore winners and sore losers still care about winning; that’s why they are competing. That’s why medals make them rather emotional.
Again: “quibbling over Biles’ choice of words” is not what I did.
I am not quibbling about Biles’ choice of words.
I am disbelieving a specific claim.
(And getting bile for it)
Here’s more of Olympians not caring whether they win or lose:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-09/paris-olympics-water-polo-australia-defeats-usa/104203562
Do you *really* think that athletes who excel at individual sports are the same as those who excel at team sports?
Really?
@ John
You’re getting pushback because your immediate response was to bah humbug and harrumph over the gracious sportsmanship displayed by the winners of bronze and silver toward the gymnast who won gold.
You can’t fathom the idea that they are honestly happy to hand her flowers and playfully bow, labelling it “propaganda”. Winning isn’t everything, but it’s certainly nice to win. It is after all, the Olympic Games, not a fight to the death.
chigau, no point being nuanced.
Even my straight-out straight-forward direct explicit claims get interpreted.
(Badly)
—
Tethys,
And nobody--literally nobody--has figured out my reference to the Stoics.
That’s fine. I can cope with pushback.
As you can see. Those who push back get pushed back.
(Newton’s third law, no?)
Of course I can.
Doesn’t mean it impresses me that much, given the circumstances.
(What, you reckon she is a media naif?)
The original Olympians competed in the nude.
@15, 19:
No. Not since he had that epic meltdown a couple of weeks ago about how AI chatbots are a bubble rather than a breakthrough. I expect he has a lot invested in said bubble, along with a tendency toward messenger-shooting …
garnetstar@20:
Which says a lot about how we raise boys in most cultures, none of it good.
It’s one reason I find the company of women refreshing.
Tethys@23:
To a lot of people, “propaganda” means “some message that I don’t agree with”. So, presumably he disagrees with not being a sore winner, or maybe even with non-zero-sum thinking in general.
Yeah, that’d be a little thing called “empathy”. If you’re a top-level gymnast, you yourself have fallen off the balance beam (or whatever) more times than you can count, and know exactly how that feels, and when your erstwhile competitor falls you know how that must be for them and feel for them as a person. You maybe even feel shitty that you will be advantaged by what happened.
You’ll see it a lot from many human beings, and especially from the women.
chigau@27:
Erm, the woman who’s been most heavily discussed in this thread has just won golds in both individual and team gymnastics. So, the answer seems to be “sometimes”.
@30:
Of what relevance is that?
But now that you mention it, it seems like the women in most of the events are wearing swimsuits or similarly skimpy outfits, even for stuff like running, climbing, and pole vault. I’m not sure what’s up with that, but if they’re being pressured into it that’s kinda crappy. At the very least the men should have to compete in speedos to make things fair. 🙂
I can’t really complain though at all of the eye candy, other than to empathize with the straight women and gay men who are, relatively, deprived, as well as the female athletes who would be more comfortable dressing more modestly. What I definitely can complain about are the sloppy, sloppy tumbles in the men’s gymnastics! What’s with all those knees-wide-apart somersaults? The women would never get away with that without being penalized massively. Is the judging biased there or something?
Your suspicion is baseless and stupid.
BB, I already made my point @1.
After that, it was ruffled feathers and my retorts to those displays of indignance.
Look, people want to believe she (and other athletes) don’t care whether or not they win, go for it.
I don’t believe that for a second.
Apparently, holding on to a basic, simple point quite clearly articulated means I am melting down.
To such as you, anyway.
(So cluey! 😉 )
Well, let’s see.
At #1 I specifically quoted the bit I disbelieved, and then people started talking about graciousness and cheating and genuineness and so forth.
As for relevance, well… surely it would be more popular were it more naked, no?
(Except for Christians and other prudes, I suppose)
—
Especially naked https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration
(Prankated or pankrated, that is the question!)
So cluey you are, that you base your judgement of my knowledge of propaganda by what you imagine “a lot of people” have.
I know its origin, its etymology, its various senses both academic and political and social, and so forth, of course. For one thing, I spent years in Catholic boarding schools. You know, the very same mob that came up with the term.
Did you have any self-respect, you should be embarrassed to thus opine--in my presence--about your speculations based purely on ignorance.
(Feebles always try to band together; they sense when a predator is near)
@John Morales
Well and the entire statement in context is discussing that everyone has worked hard -- someone will get gold and the others wont and they support each other -- You on the other hand insist that the literal interpretation is the only possible one -- As numerous people have pointed out on this thread that she does prepare to win and she probably wants to win and everyone can still understand the sense of the statement of “I think it’s all about sportsmanship, and we don’t care whether we win or lose”. (But you werent content with that either -- you further insinuated that she does get adulation out of such responses -- which will tweak people’s sense of fairness )
Im sure many of us , after trying our best at something (anything) may also have made statements of the form “We dont care what happens now” -- its not that we literally dont care , its that we have done what we could and whatever the outcome we can accept it and we can even be happy about any outcome. I’ve done it for my exams -- Ive prepared well and before the paper I have said I dont care whether I pass or fail (I did ofcourse!) but all of my friends knew what i meant.
Again: I quoted something, I commented on what I quoted.
@1: “we don’t care whether we win or lose”, says one of the three medal winners out of all the competitors in the competition.
Sure.
(sigh)
So, you interpret “we don’t care whether we win or lose” as “we do care whether we win or lose”, then?
(That’s what I’m doing — the literal meaning is clear. I don’t believe the literal meaning)
Listen to yourself!
Yes, yes. It’s not that she literally does not care, that’s my very fucking point!
John: Your flailing avoidance of my points is noted. You may go now.
Ah, the Bee that Rages:
Um, weren’t you supposedly critiquing my point, that being I don’t believe that claim?
Heh.
Every single comment I have made after @#1 is in response to a comment to me.
Fact.
But sure.
What are these points of which you are so proud that you imagine I flailingly (whiplike!) avoid?
Heh.
<snicker>
You are kinda cute when you try to be feisty.
There, there!
(I come and I go as I please; your permission is irrelevant)
@ 37
A pattern typical of trolls, but not typical of others. Other people will of course respond to others. But mostly they’re venturing their own opinion. Not trying to engage in fights with people responding to something there seems to have been no reason to post other than to be inflammatory (comment #1).
If the overwhelming majority of comments you make are responding to others responding to you -- there’s a very good chance you’re trolling.
How many years now have you claimed I am trolling in various blogs?
Heh.
You can keep repeating the lie as often as you want, but the hosts know me by now.
I might be annoying, I might come on a bit strong, but trolling is what you do, not what I do.
Persistent, years-long sniping.
(Own it!, SplooshyBlob)
—
Everyone can see just how diligently you endeavour to try to not engage in fights with me.
(Your manifest hypocrisy doesn’t faze you, of course. You are too self-absorbed to get that)
What a fucking stupid thing to claim.
I’m not trolling; I am commenting.
(Facts don’t change just because you repeat your fantasy, any more than AGW is not real because of climate denialism)
—
So.
Come on, be honest, if you can ever try to manage that.
Do you personally reckon neither Biles nor her co-competitors care whether they win or not?
(Your cowardice is about to be exposed)
“there seems to have been no reason to post other than to be inflammatory (comment #1)”
Seriously.
I waited. No comments.
I expressed my opinion.
Excitement ensued.
(If my opinion is not normative, then it clearly must be inflamatory. At least to the clueless)
Bekenstein Bound #31
In “Team Gymnastics” are there a number of athletes on the field at the same time, passing an object to-and-fro, trying to put it into a net?
Bullshit John. You curmudgeoned the thread and declared that Biles is being dishonest about her respect for other gymnasts.
You used the adjectives adulation, and propaganda to describe her.
Perhaps you might examine why you think that winning is the only important part of playing a game? It sounds more like you were brutalized by a coach with some really toxic ideas about anything less than perfection being losers.
So, John M., do you also think that Michelle Kwan cynically didn’t mean her congratulations, and you don’t believe that she was sincere in being sportsmanlike?
If not, why immediately disbelieve Simone Biles?
A reason suggests itself to me, but it is very offensive and I do *not* think that that is your reason.
Bullshit, Tethys.
You and others are so primed to read other than what I actually write and impute base motives to me that you can’t actually get the simplest of points.
Nope.
You refer to #6, where I answer someone’s attempted rhetorical question.
(There could be any other number of ‘why’s, that was just off the cuff)
I don’t think that, that’s merely how you interpret my claim that I don’t for one moment believe neither she nor her fellow competitors care about whether or not they win.
It sounds exactly like the Walter Mitty fantasies people resort to when they get frustrated by me.
—
(sigh)
You are repeating yourself.
I don’t know about Michelle nor do I care about what you think I think about her.
But if she’s a famous athlete (presumably she is, or you’d not have brought her up) then I reckon she does care whether she wins or not.
Again:
“See, graceful winners, graceful losers, sore winners and sore losers still care about winning; that’s why they are competing. That’s why medals make them rather emotional.”
Haven’t you been reading my comments hitherto?
The one thing I disbelieve (and I quoted that and have been hammering on that simple, explicit point) is that she and the other competitors don’t care whether or not they win.
And I’ve given reasons.
@5: I do know athletes at that level take winning seriously. Very, very seriously.
What’s offensive about that?
You might care to consider this: Why is there drug-testing in the Olympics, if the athletes don’t care whether they win or lose?
Oh, you poor thing! No wonder you are damaged. But I don’t think I am qualified to help you with this …
“The athletes don’t care whether they win or lose” is a straw position that you are attributing to us, but which (to my knowledge) nobody here has actually held.
“The athletes balance wanting to win against other, concurrent goals and desires” would be closer to the mainstream position here, I suspect.
And the extreme other pole, “The athletes want to win at all costs and care about nothing else” seems to be held by no-one, not even you.
So as far as I can tell we are in violent agreement that “the athletes balance wanting to win against other goals and desires”.
Chigau@41:
Ah, so you are engaging in a motte-and-bailey argument. I see.
I will note that some of the runners and swimmers have done well in both individual and relay (aka team) events, as an additional data point.
On the matter of the female athletes’ dress, I have now seen something unexpected in the opposite direction of skimpification: one of the women’s beach volleyball teams in halters and gym shorts rather than bikinis. Seems not only do they have that option, but they even have it in a sport where they formerly didn’t?
Of course, having an option doesn’t disprove being pressured not to actually exercise that option. Jury still out on that one. But it is notable that the male athletes dress more conservatively, and that likely means either there’s less pressure on them not to, or else they are actually required to. Perhaps it’s not so much the male gaze we are seeing here as much as it is homophobia then.
Another question would be if more conservative dress has a performance disadvantage. More drag during running events, say. I would expect that to affect male and female athletes equally, though. There’s definitely one event type where more conservative dress gives an advantage. The racing swimsuits cover a lot and the womens’ do not flatter their figures at all, probably because they are made of materials more hydrophobic than human skin and because curves induce eddies which cause drag. Contrast the swimsuits used for diving, which are more revealing by far (just speedos for the men!) as well as, in the womens’ cases, figure-flattering.
bekenstein bound #46
No. I’m not.
BB, trying ever so hard:
They expelled me. Twice.
But I did learn how to make a bed so there were no creases, by the time I was seven.
(I was not in there with them, they were in there with me)
You appear to have missed the significance.
https://sourcenews.scot/give-me-a-child-till-he-is-seven-years-old/
See, I am not one of those people who march to the beat of others’ drums.
I could see they hypocrisy even at that young age, and I my skills at recalcitrance were sharpened thereby.
Heh.
I need your help like an adult needs the baby’s help — your messy diaper-stained hands are no good to me.
(Trying to patronise me is fraught, O poseur)
Heh.
Read my #1.
That’s a direct quotation of the claim I disbelieve.
Look at the OP.
“Biles said, “I think it’s all about sportsmanship, and we don’t care whether we win or lose”
I’m attributing it to the person who actually said what I quoted.
As I should.
And you mob are the ones who get so very upset I disbelieve that claim.
Sure. And that torturing puppies for fun and profit is a bad thing.
And that stabbing yourself is a bad thing.
But those are not actually the point of contention, are they?
They are irrelevancies to my point.
(You know those tests where people just go along with the majority? I’m not one of those people)
[such stupid appeals to popularity and social status and conformance, they are rather revealing, but futile]
“Another question would be if more conservative dress has a performance disadvantage. More drag during running events, say. I would expect that to affect male and female athletes equally, though.”
See? Naked, that’s the go.
(Stick to the original)
You know what amuses me a fair bit?
Someone who wrote “Of what relevance is that?”
That someone just answered themself, no?
chigau, I obviously got your point.
Heh.
https://olympics.com/en/sport-events/2024-icu-cheerleading-junior-world-world-championships-orlando
Oh sure, it’s everybody else’s fault for reading John wrong, despite the fact that he keeps claiming that he can psychically know that Simone Biles isn’t sincere about Rebekah taking a gold medal.
Good grief!
Wilful misapprehension is not admirable.
I am not claiming to be psychic.
I am not claiming to know.
I am expressing my opinion.
(Such a simple thing; I don’t believe neither she nor other competitors at that level care whether they win, because that’s basically how you get to that level)
—
Again:
John Morales says
August 8, 2024 at 1:54 am
Obviously, I don’t know that.
I do know athletes at that level take winning seriously. Very, very seriously.
Else, they’d not be at that level.
JM # 48
This is actually inadvertently some of the most worthwhile stuff JM has ever posted -- an insight into the mind of the troll:
“No I’m not deliberately obnoxious, annoying, and contrarian for the amusement of winding people up. I’m simply not seeking ‘popularity and social status and conformance'”. Imagine the self-delusion required to maintain this belief.
And I love the alleged source of his iconoclastic superiority; “I rebelled as a kid”.
Dude. X-D
#6 John
Performances are performative, but not every gesture by a performer is a performance.
___
#15, #19 Coffee and RB
No, he has a compulsion. We all know this.
___
#25 John
and #32
#54 Sbob
Yes, I got a strong ‘aren’t I special’ impression from that one too.
You are the troll.
(Any insight is into your mind, O projective one)
So blind!
You, O bofiferaticalicus, are quoting your imaginary thing.
(Care to actually quote me, rather than your wishful rantings?)
There are many things you love about me.
I am remarkable, so you remark.
I am fascinating, so you are fascinated.
—
Holms, you are so pathetic.
Ah well.
(Once, you were feisty)
—
So, all about me, as usual with you mob.
Never mind the actual topic.
Me: “I don’t believe her”
You: Wank wank wank wankety wank.
(Well done!)
And so forth.
—
Once again, a post entirely devoted to me.
To your fantasies about me, to your wishful thinking, dare I say it… to your fanfic.
—
“Dude. X-D”
Yup. You are the x-d dude.
(Heh)
—
Me, me, me.
You talk to me about me.
You talk to each other about me.
(heh)
“Yes, I got a strong ‘aren’t I special’ impression from that one too.”
Says the person talking to the other person about me, as if this was a thread about me.
(But hey, sure; you listen to what you say, not pay attention to what you actually do)
[not that I mind being ‘shipped]
Bizarre, I don’t know where the rest of that post went. May as well redo the snipped bit entirely.
#25 John
and #32
Take 2!
Bizarre, I don’t know where the rest of that post went. May as well redo the snipped bit entirely.
#25 John
and #32
No, what you’re experiencing is ‘criticism’ and ‘disagreement’. Things you’re able to dish out, but not take with anything resembling equanimity. Hence the increasing desperation with which you try to reframe the criticism as obsession with you, despite the plain and obvious fact that the criticisms were on the topic of grace in competition.
For example, you squirm thusly:
Obviously this is a plain lie. A better summary would have been:
[You]: “I don’t believe her”
[Me, or Us]: Here are multiple reasons why we disagree with you on this specific topic.
And of course there is the wilful self-blindness:
Says you, quad posting about us and not the topic.
Ah, Holms, you are so weak at this.
See? Talking about me and to me again, and not the topic.
Heh.
…Said John, talking to me and not the topic.
If it works one way, it works the other. But you have a blind spot.
Damn. I haven’t had high expectations of Morales for years now, but he keeps on finding a way to limbo underneath them anyway.
Such a useful skill!
Me, though, given the choice between that and critical thinking, I’d choose critical thinking. You, sadly, apparently weren’t even given the choice. Religious parenting.
And when you talk to a doctor about that, might want to mention your taking Biles too literally. You might also be a little bit on the spectrum. Nothing to be ashamed of, of course, but understanding yourself a bit better might help you to improve your interactions with other people.
Your confession that you’ve been not good at setting expectations for years now is duly noted.
Unfortunate, that.
—
So. The Bounded one:
Indeed. It avoided a face-slap, a little lecture, having the bed undone and being told to do it again.
In front of my peers.
Quite handy indeed!
You’re fantasising again.
(Clearly, had you chosen to think critically, you would not be pissing into the wind)
<snicker>
Speculate away.
I get that a lot.
(Basically, the fundamental attribution error)
<snicker>
It might, might it?
In your opinion?
You are most amusing when you attempt to belittle me, you know.
Anyway.
(I’m sure everyone can see how cleverly you’re schooling me)
“If it works one way, it works the other.”
(Newton’s third law, no?)
Gotta love how my subliminal priming yields results.
[ah, memories. Maybe 30 young boys in each dormitory. Invigilators.
I learnt how to go to sleep by pretending to be asleep as they inspected us children.
We were naturally naughty, of course, else why be sent there?
Good old Jesuits]
[as it turns out, my three sisters spent time in an orphanage run by nuns.
This one: https://clan.org.au/orphanages/goodwood-orphanage/
They’re no more religious than I am]
Genuine sympathy at the abuse you endured.
Unfortunate that for the protection of everyone here you may need to be placed in a lead-lined box within a concrete sarcophagus for the next 10,000 years …
Ah, the feeble BB.
That was not abuse, as I saw it.
Just the environment in which I grew; same as every child ever.
Heh.
That’s your attempted gibe?
(So weak!)
—
See, here’s the thing.
You claim to have sympathy for me, and then utterly negate that sentiment.
Me, I make no claims whatsoever about having sympathy for you, and then sustain that sentiment.
(But hey, I appreciate you want me to live for another hundred centuries.
At least you appreciate me that much)
If you don’t see such treatment as abuse, then that is part of your problem right there.
Another report about the lack of care about winning exhibited by athletes:
https://slate.com/culture/2024/08/olympics-jordan-chiles-gymnastics-bronze-medal-barbosu-voinea.html
—
BB: you have that backwards; If you do see such treatment as abuse, then that is part of your problem right there. Only the weak suffer from that sort of thing, the rest of us grow stronger.