In lieu of a post, I will refer you to an article of mine that was just published in Scientific American magazine titled When Lord Kelvin Nearly Killed Darwin’s Theory. It deals with an an interesting historical period in the second half of the 19th century that pitted two scientific giants against each other in which the age of the Earth was the key factor in determining the final outcome.
Enjoy! And let me know in the comments what you think.
Rob Grigjanis says
I don’t have handy references, but I remember reading that Kelvin agreed that Perry’s calculations could vastly increase the age of the Earth. However, I think Kelvin was bound to lower numbers by his treatment of the sun’s age. It wasn’t until some years after Kelvin’s death that nuclear fusion was proposed as a possible source of stellar energy.
Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says
Was this the debate about how the Sun’s mass could only produce a certain amount of energy through endothermic chemical reactions, therefore if the sun was still “burning” then it must be equal to or less than a certain age, which was much less than the age that geology and other studies were beginning to lead us to suspect?
IIRC, this fight was later settled by the discovery of nuclear reactions and radioactivity, which provided a previously unknown source of energy which converted much more mass into energy and thus allowed the finite mass of the sun to provide the same level of energy output over a vastly longer period of time.
It’s interesting to frame this as a Kelvin/Darwin fight. I’m not at all familiar with the personalities involved in the argument, but I do remember that the debate was settled late enough that both would be dead. If I get the chance, I’ll be happy to read the article.
Reginald Selkirk says
I disagree with the characterization of it as a “joint paper” since it was not a work co-authored by the two. Rather, two selections by Darwin were read, including a portion of an 1857 letter to Asa Gray, and the paper Wallace had sent to Darwin was read. This was at the meeting of the Linnean Society, with the works presented by Lyell and Hooker.
link
Reginald Selkirk says
It certainly was radioactivity that tipped the scales, but I think your description of how that transpired is a bit lacking. Kelvin’s calculations were based on heat flow and the temperature of the Earth. Radioactivity within the Earth provided a new source of heat that burned his calculations to a crisp. That radioactive dating of rocks could provide independent dates was a double whammy.
Rob Grigjanis says
CD @2: Kelvin proposed gravitational, not chemical, energy as the source of the sun’s heat. But he wasn’t particularly dogmatic about it. My bolding;
https://zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/on_the_age_of_the_suns_heat.html
Reginald Selkirk says
True enough. Kelvin died in 1907. The suggestion that radioactive decay provided a source of heat was suggested in 1903 by George Darwin and John Joly. The first calculations of the age of the Earth based on radioactive dating were by Boltwood and Rutherford in the 1905-1907 time frame.
Wikipedia
mnb0 says
I have known the story for years.
https://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2009/04/17/battle-of-the-beards-darwin-vs
https://www.nemokennislink.nl/publicaties/kelvin-versus-darwin/?q=kernfusie
Holms says
“Meh, I already knew this” -- valuable comment, mnbo. So did many of us, but without the weird brag.
consciousness razor says
It wasn’t just about the Sun. Kelvin was also trying to calculate how long it may have taken for Earth to cool after it initially formed in a hot molten state. That did also rely on an assumption that there wasn’t another source of energy (as it did for the Sun and fusion). It was not known that then that radioactive decay was another such source. But apparently, that only makes a relatively small difference in the end — not enough to get geologists (and Darwin) the amount of time they needed.
So more importantly, Perry showed that convection allowed for a much older Earth, and Kelvin wasn’t properly accounting for that. That more or less did the job. And I suppose if the Sun’s age had turned out to be less than Earth’s, you could imagine some other kind of scenario in which they didn’t form together, since it’s not really necessary that they’re the same age. (But it is nicer that way I guess.)
(Here’s another decent article about it.)
Owlmirror says
@Reginald Selkirk:
No. Mano read the paper I linked for him, which shows that radioactivity alone doesn’t contribute that much heat to the Earth. Differential cooling does allow for billions of years for primordial heat to cool. Once again:
(These paragraphs actually come earlier in the paper than the above)
The above quotations are all from:
England, P.; Molnar, P.; Righter, F. (January 2007). “John Perry’s neglected critique of Kelvin’s age for the Earth: A missed opportunity in geodynamics”. GSA Today. 17 (1): 4–9. doi:10.1130/GSAT01701A.1. (PDF)
This is a less technical explanation of the topic:
Philip C. England , Peter Molnar and Frank M. Richter. “Kelvin, Perry and the Age of the Earth”. American Scientist. Vol. 95, No. 4 (JULY-AUGUST 2007), pp. 342-349 (PDF)
Mano Singham says
Crip Dyke @#2 and Reginald @#4:
While radioactivity did provide a new and hitherto unknown source of energy, it had not been shown that there was enough radioactive material in the Earth’s crust to provide sufficient heat to significantly change Kelvin’s calculations. Inhomogeneity and convective flow were more significant in throwing his numbers into doubt.
Here is a passage from a paper on the subject:
“We now know that the crust does not contain enough radioactive heat to explain the surface heat flux; nevertheless, it is still frequently stated that, because the discovery of radioactive heat undermined an assumption behind Kelvin’s calculation, it also undermined his conclusion. This statement is logically incorrect; Kelvin’s conclusion would be undermined by that discovery only if incorporation of the Earth’s radioactive heat into his calculation produced a substantially different age for the Earth.”
(England, Philip, Peter Molnar, and Frank Richter. 2007. “John Perry’s Neglected Critique of Kelvin’s Age for the Earth: A Missed Opportunity in Geodynamics.” GSA Today 17, no. 1, 4–9. https://doi.org/10.1130/GSAT01701A.1.)
[p.s. My response overlapped with Owlmirror’s @#10. They were the one who sent me that link and for which I am grateful because it enabled me to include Perry’s work in my book and the article.]
John Morales says
Excellent article for a general audience, IMO.
I rather like the understated dig at religious recalcitrance, too.
Rob Grigjanis says
John @12:
What ‘dig’ are you referring to? I must have missed it.
John Morales says
Rob Grigjanis says
Ha, I did miss that paragraph.
rs says
Enjoyed reading the article. Hope to see more interesting articles like this on the history of science.