Today comes reports that Israel has bombed the only power plant in Gaza as well as water processing plants, adding to the list of war crimes since bombing essential infrastructure necessary for civilian life is prohibited by the rules of war. Radio and TV stations were also hit. A refugee camp and hospital were also bombed and eight children were killed in a park.
The Israeli Defense Forces deny that they were responsible for these bombings but eyewitnesses say otherwise.
Israel categorically denied its forces were responsible for the strike on the hospital or the camp, saying rockets launched by militants had misfired. But medical staff and other witnesses insisted missiles were fired at the hospital from an F-16 jet.
The UK’s Channel 4 sent Jon Snow to visit Gaza and on his return he described the horrors he saw as a result of the Israeli strikes and his anger that this carnage was being allowed to continue was almost palpable.
This video by the organization Freedom for Palestine has celebrities holding signs calling for the end of the killing.
In, no doubt somehow totally unrelated news Hamas keep firing rockets at Israel and refusing ceasefires and continuing terrorist attacks too.. Co-incidence?
Exactly, StevoR! If that one group keeps firing rockets, the ONLY reasonable response is to kill children and bomb hospitals, schools, and necessary infrastructure! It’s only logical!
And now it turns out that Israel’s claim that the three children “killed by Hamas” wasn’t true, and that they were actually killed by a splinter group not operating under hamas control. Hmmmm.
@2 Tabby -- you don’t get it. When the US or Israel does x, that is good and noble. When anyone else does X, it is terrorism. Once you understand that, it all makes sense. We’re exceptional, haven’t you heard?
@ ^ funknjunk : You are Israeli eh? I somehow doubt that, seeing as you don’t seem to be on their side.
@2.Tabby Lavalamp : Israel has tried a few other methods before -- like swapping “land* for peace” hence why Gaza is in Hamas hands today. What a mistake that turned out to be. Don’t expect to see it repeated -- unlike the Arab side Israel is smart enough to learn from past errors.
@3. dean : Citation really needed.
***
Incidentally, isn’t it funny how the actions of Hamas leaders -- shooting from behind their own babies then using their telegenic corpses as as cover from the inevitable return fire -- proves they don’t really wish to be “martyred” or believe in Allah at all? Cowards! Dishonourable, evil, scumbag cowards!
If Hamas truly had the courage of their convictions and seriously believed their hateful moon-god and his child raping prophet and really wanted to be “martyrs” fighting teh Juuuuzzz!!! .. Then they’d leave the innocent people out of it and go fight Israel at a predetermined place and time arranged beforehand and challenge Israel to take them on in a fair fight -- just Hamas and its whole leadership and membership (No bystanders or anyone not seeking to meet Allah ..or whoever*, involved, please!)
Hamas could go out in the open, attack Israel without using their own children as human shields and either prove Allah’s existence and cause by winning an most unlikely victory -- or get their supposedly much sough after “martyrdom” at Israel’s obliging hands and everyone would be free of them whilst they go to meet Allah and his war criminal ancient warlord pedophile prophet and enjoy their 72 raisins -- or virgins -translations apparently vary -- for the rest of eternity! Win- win!
So why don’t Hamas just do that and why don’t real Muslims call them on it?
* The scoreline in the Arab-Israeli wars so far** and the mere fact that Israel actually exists is kinda a hint that they may have been backing the wrong horse here ain’t it? It may or may nor be supernatural but, yowza! what the Jewish people have survived over their history despite all the odds and enemies best efforts at extermination should get one wondering. Even on atheist blog. Shouldn’t we be supporting the side that isn’t as far right and religiously fanatically fundamentalist on that score too btw?
Of course, I think we all think that there is no Allah and that ancient creepy, deluded con-man Mo-ham-merde who plagarised the very worst of two better religions and made a new one of their barrel scrapings is very long dead and gone and deserves complete obscurity not devotion or anyone’s following his dated, vile word as and thoughts.
Don’t we?
No?
Those who Hamas murder directly or indirectly in their wars are probably just dead. Wasted lives. Wasted potential. Tragic, victims of Hamas’es criminal evil stupidity.
Dafuck can good people see this any other way?
This is a disproportionate war waged on civilians because of Hamas’ stupid and suicidal tendency to provoke the beast. Perhaps Israel should consider building a dome over Gaza so it isn’t an open air prison anymore. And then pump in Zyklon-B at their convenience. /extreme-cynicism.
** Scoreline Arab-Israeli wars :
(A regular if less than really “sporting” series of ongoing contests.)
-- 1948 Israel versus invading Arab Armies : Israel won 1 Arabs nil.
-- 1956 Suez crisis Israel 2, Arabs nil.
-- 1967 Six Day War -- Israel 3, Arabs nil.
-1973 Yom Kippur War : Israel 4, Arabs nil.
-- 1980’s First Intifada : Israel 5, Arabs nil,
-- 1990’s Arafat’s Second Intifada -- Israel 6, Arabs nil.
(Short interlude where Arab teams Ham-ass & Fat-ass played / fought for control of Gaza post Israeli peace attempt number 1001. Nil all draw.)
-- 2008 Gaza war : Israel 7, Arabs (Hamas esp. here) nil.
-- 2012 Gaza war : Israel 8, Arabs (Hamas esp. here) nil.
2014 Latest Gaza war started by Hamas, oh surprise, Hams are losing badly again!
Maybe its time the Arab side realised this just isn’t a “sport” they are any good at or ever going to win and gave up and played something else totally differently for once?
Something that’s maybe actually sporting even? I believe, given the British part of the land’s history both sides are eligable to play as part of the Commonwealth games? Or they could take up cricket? Much more fun and less murderous! (Fast bowlers may disagree.)
Why kill children one bomb at a time when you can kill thousands in a few days by making them die of thirst? It worked in the Lodz Ghetto, when water and electricity were cut off there and people (mostly children and the sick) died from easily treated conditions instead of gunshots or bombings.
Stevor:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html
A little human decency from you is needed too, but you’ve demonstrated over and over that you prefer good old mass retaliation against the defenseless who have the bad luck to be born to the wrong parents.
StevoR,
I keep seeing these allegations about the use of “human shields” by Palestinians, but I never see any reliable evidence for it. Do you have any links to such evidence?
There are of course many well documented examples of Israeli forces using Palestinian children as human shields. You show me your evidence, and I’ll show you mine (though if you are really as informed about the region as you claim to be, I’m sure you’re already aware).
@StevoR
You saw the Suez Crisis on a list and didn’t really look at it too closely, didn’t you?
When the tunnels and bulk of the rockets are destroyed the Israelis will leave. Then the Israelis can go back to blockading Gaza and trying to keep weapons and war materials out and the Palestinians can go back to raising the next generation of fighters and desiring more and better ways of killing Jews.
Given another couple of years everyone can do it all again. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Remember, that nothing has changes since the original Palestinian game plan was settled upon:
“Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations.”
Yasser Arafat
“We plan to eliminate the state of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion. . . . We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem.”
Yasser Arafat
“Continued to press on soldiers of freedom! We will not bend or fail until the blood of every last Jew from the youngest child to the oldest elder is spilt to redeem our land!”
Yasser Arafat
Read them carefully. Arafat clearly states the goal: destroy Israel, kill all the Jews, take over all of the land. He further tells you the methods he will use: general disruption, psychological warfare (terrorism is psychological warfare), and exploiting their own children.
In a recent interview with a Hamas spokesman he makes it clear that they will not recognize Israel or its right to exist. So it goes.
StevoR :
Fuck Netanyahu and fuck you for this obscenity.
StevoR
You are an asshole. A giant, uncompassionate asshole. Fuck. You.
Really? Reducing this to mystical scores, like it’s a fucking sport? I guess it is, to you and Israel. Fuck right off. Just fuck off.
(Incidentally, the local news reported this morning that Israel refused a cease-fire offered by Hamas. Sorry I don’t have a link in English. But fuck you and your one-sided, hate-filled view anyway.)
@ 5 StevoR
Oh, you want a fair fight? So your recommendation is that the US give Hamas a few billion to buy themselves an air force, an army, and a navy?
(I don’t even have enough snark to respond to the ‘manifest destiny’ might-makes-right bullshit.)
StevoR @7:
So, you think the Arab side should yield and accept any further imposition from Israel henceforth, lest Gaza keep being
terroriseddefended against with the utmost mercy.I put it to you that the Israeli leadership would applaud your sentiment.
(The other side, not so much)
@ 7 StevoR
Israel was supplied arms by the Soviet Union via Czechoslovakia in the late 40s, France (including nuclear weapon technology) in the 50s and 60s, and the United States from the 70s to the present.
If I had bows and arrows and you had a tank, it would not be by magic or the will of Jehovah that you would win every fight.
@ 5 StevoR
Also (’cause you got me started now), it’s bizarre that you reserve all you ridicule for Islam when the entire rationale for the existence of Israel in the first place is a mythical promise made by an imaginary deity to a fictional ancestor in exchange for all his descendents foreskins as recorded in the Torah.
As usual, Stevo revels in genocide and slaughtering innocent civilians, including children. Congratulations you piece of shit.
** Scoreline American Indian Wars:
(A regular if less than really “sporting” series of ongoing contests.)
-- 1776-1795 Cherokee-American Wars: America won 1, Indians nil.
-- 1785-1795 Northwest Indian War: America 2, Indians nil.
-- 1813-1814 Creek War: America 3, Indians nil.
-- 1832 Black Hawk War: America 4, Indians nil.
-- 1835-1842 Second Seminole War: America 5, Indians nil (but a really good showing by the underdogs!)
-- 1856-1868 Red Cloud’s War: America 6, Indians nil.
-- 1862 Dakota War: America 7, Indians (Sioux esp. here) nil.
-- 1863-1865 Colorado War: America 8, Indians (Sioux esp. here) nil.
1876 Latest Indian War started by the Sioux (that poor brave Custer!); oh surprise, the Indians are losing again!
Maybe it’s time the Indian side realized this just isn’t a “sport” they are any good at or ever going to win and gave up and played something else totally differently for once?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014
StevoR, @5:
You see, stuff like this is why people think you’re a racist and an idiot. Neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians are unified hive-minds. There are many Israelis who oppose the policies of the Israeli government in this matter, just as there are many Palestinians who oppose Hamas’ actions. Reducing large and diverse groups of people down to two opposing “sides” solely on the basis of their ethnic or national identity is racist thinking.
You are Israeli eh? I somehow doubt that, seeing as you don’t seem to be on their side.
Yeah, a lot of Americans got a similar response when we criticized Bush Jr’s wars.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you StevoR: genocide apologist, war crimes enthusiast…
#5 StevoR
@ ^ funknjunk : You are Israeli eh? I somehow doubt that, seeing as you don’t seem to be on their side.
StevoR, I know that you have a demonstrable lack of honest intent / reading comprehension, but the text you are replying to contains “When the [b]US[/b] or Israel does x…” indicating that funknjunk identifies as Israeli OR American. Also, you are forgetting that belonging to x nation does not entail endorsing every action undertaken by that nation, especially if that action being undertaken is a war crime. Example: germans can still be german whilst decrying the conduct of the Nazi party; you can still be x without endorsing everything done by x.
So, look into the politics of your nation. Have you endorsed every single one of them? Probably not, meaning you are being a hypocrite.
@2.Tabby Lavalamp : Israel has tried a few other methods before – like swapping “land* for peace” hence why Gaza is in Hamas hands today. What a mistake that turned out to be. Don’t expect to see it repeated – unlike the Arab side Israel is smart enough to learn from past errors.
This paragraph is a shining example of why you are considered a genocide apologist. Do you understand what you just said? You pointed out that Israel could have, but did not, eliminate the Gaza strip, and then noted that they may not do so again in an approving tone.
Also, you continue to overlook the glaringly obvious point that the land does not belong to Israel in the first place.
If Hamas truly had the courage of their convictions and seriously believed their hateful moon-god and his child raping prophet and really wanted to be “martyrs” fighting teh Juuuuzzz!!! .. Then they’d leave the innocent people out of it and go fight Israel at a predetermined place and time arranged beforehand and challenge Israel to take them on in a fair fight…
Are you a fucking moron, or do you just hope that no one notices your idiocy? You’ve just said that Hamas should step into a prearranged fight, against a foe that demonstrably has no qualms about slaughtering people with a different ideology. So basically you’ve just proposed that Hamas should simply commit suicide. That’ll fix the problem of being oppressed!
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#7 StevoR being stupid again
** Scoreline Arab-Israeli wars :
(A regular if less than really “sporting” series of ongoing contests.)
etc.
In which you clearly demonstrate that you are well aware of Israel’s military strength -- at least in relation to their neighbours -- and are therefore not facing in an existential crisis.
Maybe its time the Arab side realised this just isn’t a “sport” they are any good at or ever going to win and gave up and played something else totally differently for once?
But they did try peaceful relations earlier. Look at the very first entry in that timeline you brought up:
“- 1948 Israel versus invading Arab Armies : Israel won 1 Arabs nil.”
Are you aware that Israel was created by foreign powers that same year? Or that the land was only in British hands at all because the collapsing Ottoman empire ceded them at the end of WWI? The Palestinians were never made part of the decision, because they would never have consented to the theft of their land by foreign settlers.
Israel was not being invaded by the arabs; the arabs were trying to get their land back from theives.
This very first entry therefore gives the lie to your astonishingly shallow statement that they should ‘give up [fighting back] and try something different for once’. They had peace until Israel arrived, and look how that turned out: corraled into two boxes, with all movement controlled by a foreign bully and no autonomy.
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#8 leftoverunder
Why kill children one bomb at a time when you can kill thousands in a few days by making them die of thirst? It worked in the Lodz Ghetto, when water and electricity were cut off there and people (mostly children and the sick) died from easily treated conditions instead of gunshots or bombings.
For one thing, there is the very first line of the post to which you are replying: “Today comes reports that Israel has bombed the only power plant in Gaza as well as water processing plants…” But if that is not enough, there is copious evidence of more:
-- Access to water for both Palestinian territories is entirely controlled by Israel
-- Israel grants itself 80% of the water, despite having a lower population
-- Israel determined the terms of the water allowance for both populations, but has since used more than its (already huge) allowance
-- Israel’s vast overuse of water is damaging the aquifer itself, and causing Palestinian wells to run dry
-- The Gaza strip is especailly boned, as it has only a single river that has been heavily diverted and dammed by Israel, and its water table is suffering salt intrusion because Israel is artificially lowering its level witha cordon of deep wells immediately outside the border
There is much more. What we can see is that the Palestinians are absolutely at the mercy of a merciless foe, happily wasting water purely to cause illness amongst the oppressed natives.
Thus, if you were trying to imply that Israel is being oh so merciful in merely killing a few thousand Gazans in this offensive, bear in mind that they are also doing the very thing you suggest. Which I’ll note, is yet another war crime.
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#12 lorn
Then the Israelis can go back to blockading Gaza and trying to keep weapons and war materials out and the Palestinians…
Weapons, war materials, food, water (see above), construction materials, medicine, international aid shipments, anything Israel declares to be a ‘luxury item’, local business imports and exports, autonomy… yeah, a real nice status quo you seem to be endorsing. One need look no further for the cause of Palestinians hatred toward Israel.
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#21 lorn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014
From your own link, that you clearly didn’t read before rushing to paste here as a pathetic gotcha:
Effect of Missiles
Killed: 3 Injured: 9
Retaliation by Israel
Killed: 1,148 Injured: 4,120
According to your own inept research, why call Israel anything but a tyrant?
Oops, a brainfart early in my reply, using the wrong brackets for bolding text in html.