Here’s the problem. The Democrats think it’s OK to murder Palestinians, but also think trans people should have rights. The Republicans think it’s OK to murder both Palestinians and trans people.
It’s not much of a dilemma, because of course I can’t vote for Republicans, but I can support part of the Democratic position, so I’ve got to vote Democratic party all the way down the line. It would make me much happier, though, if we could see some opposition to Israel’s genocidal actions.
I was surprised to see this evidence that anti-trans rhetoric is a key part of the Republican strategy.
They’ve spent almost $30 million on an ad that says Harris is providing humane social support to trans people in prison, which they think is deplorable, but I think is a point in her favor. Their second biggest focus is on immigration — they’re against it, I’m for it.
Their entire platform is built on hatred for non-white, non-straight people. Again, this is a crappy dilemma, because of course I’m pro-Democrat then.
Except that I wish voting for Harris didn’t also make me feel like I’m giving tacit approval to genocide.
I have the same feelings. I will be voting for genocide stained shit weasels. And voting against fascist, nazi, overtly, explicitly bigoted shit weasels.
And the genocide stained shit weasels have implicit fascist and bigotry issues because we are a shit weasel nation.
Note: the repugnantcant spending has nothing for healthcare. They are sponsors of the fraud of medicare corporate ‘disadvantage’ and putting women’s health at risk and completely in the hands of rtwing ahole politicians and xtian terrorists.
As I’ve said (endlessly) there I’ve been friends with and worked with many decent Jews and Muslims. But, harris has signaled she is going to continue biden’s billions in funding the zionist Israeli genocide of people in gaza, lebanon, syria, etc.
I am registered as a democrat. I will vote against tRUMP.
I am angered at the stupidity, violence and deceit on the part of the corporate democrap machine. It is almost as corrupt as the corporate repugnantcant machine. I like Tim Walz. We’ve supported Bernie and the squad because they show honesty and compassion.
Moses mofo johnson and the elongated muskrat, along with too many others, are dangers to society
All the lies, deceit, threats and violence just further prove to me that society is mostly a failed experiment.
(well, that was cathartic for me)
One more item,
PZ wrote: ‘They’ve spent almost $30 million on an ad’
I reply: One of the biggest problems with our system of elections is that billionaires and special interest hate groups spend millions to try to buy elections. And, the drooling masses are guided by that. THIS IS OBSCENE.
There should be no influence money in elections. There are ways to stop this, but the corporate billionaires that own this miserable country wouldn’t allow it.
This is a recurring frustration for me. “Oh, I can’t vote for Harris because I’d be condoning genocide.” Except: you don’t have a choice! Any action you take via electoral politics is going to condone genocide, because the US position on Israel is baked in at levels which simply can’t be touched by electoral politics. Both the Democrats and the Republicans are going to continue the system that is in place when it comes to Israel.
And, as a citizen, whether you vote or not, you’re complicit! Yes, it sucks! It sucks, but what are you going to do about it? Not voting isn’t going to change the calculus, and in fact, makes the calculus worse for you: if you’re not going to vote because of this one issue, or you’re going to vote on a non-hope third party, or worse, you’re going to vote Republican- why should they court you? You’ve just basically told the establishment that you can be safely ignored.
And, at the end of the day, you can be safely ignored because you’re not doing anything worth paying attention to you. Because again: you can’t fix these kinds of problems via electoral politics. You need an organized labor movement that makes it difficult or impossible for the logistical support to continue. This means that disinvestment protests are a good start- and then targeted actions that disrupt the war machine are the next. Sitting around and whinging about “both sides are bad” accomplishes nothing but stroking your own ego.
Or, to put it another way: the Democrats are a cancer that must be eradicated from the body politic. But the Republicans are a sucking chest wound. They’re both going to kill us (and a lot of other people), but one of them is doing it on a much faster timeline and needs to be addressed first.
We can all still point out Israel has a concentration camp, and Trump wants them too.
The way I see it, the Democrats are sad about it and will maybe consider putting in a speed bump or two on the road to genocide. The Republicans are happy about it and will put in an 8-lane expressway.
When I disagree with both candidates on an issue, the question becomes “Who would I rather try to persuade?” Or even “Who would I rather protest against?” From this viewpoint, the choice is clear: only one candidate has threatened to use the armed forces against protesters, and he happens to be the same candidate who is repulsive on every other issue.
A vote is the expression of a preference as to the choices one has, not a statement of absolute approval. And that’s an easy choice. The Palestinians will get a much better deal out of Harris than they would out of Trump.
Even a cursory glance at history shows that our ruination as a society has been in the works for many centuries. It’s scarier now because first, well, here we all are, and second, our scientists and engineers have finally worked out the means to make it reality. This pipe dream of love and altruism for all is simply not in our genetic makeup and never has been. We’re a sophisticated version of the Precambrian predator that spent its days out-competing others of its kind in the hunt for things to treat as worm food. Welcome back to the jungle, everybody.
First, I share your frustration with Democrats’ vacillation regarding Israel’s genocidal war of conquest in the West Bank and Gaza. But let’s be realistic here: Israel’s Likudnik leaders have made it clear that they’re going to wage this war with or without America’s acquiescence. I’m not sure pulling out all military and financial support from Israel will save that many lives, or make Israelis less determined to grab more land. They’re in conquest mode, have been for years, and possibly couldn’t stop even if they wanted to.
Second, I’m hearing that Biden, and probably Harris, while publicly paying lip service to Israel, are quietly considering him less than a loyal dependable ally. A good bit less. I’d love to hear both of them say so publicly, but I can understand why they’d avoid doing so, at least until after the election.
Third, and most important, however bad or complicit in genocide you think Biden has been, a re-elected Trump would be far worse — both because he’s a flaming racist leading a party of flaming racists who WANT Israel to kill as many heathen savages as possible; and because he’s a petty, stupid, small-minded grifter, who was never able to comprehend anything bigger than his own immediate gain, who would, in all likelihood, be totally okay with any campaign of extermination if he or any of his princelings could get a Gaza-coast casino/resort or some such as part of the deal. (Jared Kooshner has already spoken plainly about such a prospect.)
Whatever issues you care about most, it is vitally important to have a sane, functioning adult in the White House making the big decisions; even if we don’t end up agreeing with all of them. (And it’s not like the non-functioning-adult would ever have given us a better decision on anything.)
There’s an important distinction missing from this. While much of the Democratic coalition is “OK” with killing Palestinians, much of it isn’t, and it’s that tension that forces Netanyahu and his allies to exercise some restraint. Republicans, on the other hand, are pretty much in agreement that the IDF should “finish the job,” by which they mean the total extermination of the Palestinian people, and they’re eager to provide Netanyahu with the means to do just that.
Now, I know our dimwitted trolls will cry that there’s no difference between the two parties’ positions, but the fact is that the combined, unrestrained might of the Israeli and US military turned against Palestinians would mean the death of pretty much everyone in Gaza and the West Bank. Within a couple of months, all who would remain would be those Palestinians living outside of those areas. Those Palestinians living in the US would quickly find themselves branded “the enemy within,” to be hunted down by the military or paramilitray death squads along with the rest of us “vermin.”
So, yes, the Democratic position on Israel’s on-going genocide is awful, but the Republican position is much, much worse. And yes, it’s true that Republicans also intend to exterminate gender-non-conforming people, too.
I share PZ’s dilemma almost exactly. The last time I considered, even briefly, voting for a Republican was about four years ago in a Republican primary. (There’s what seems to me to be a cogent argument that, in a heavily gerrymandered place like Missouri, the only election that actually matters is the favored party’s primary.) I actually looked at all the candidates’ websites at least; but I couldn’t tell them apart. They were all guns for Jesus, Critical Race Theory, and “protecting girls’ sports”. This year, Critical Race Theory has been replaced by “the immigration problem”.
I share Raging Bee’s hope (end of second paragraph @10) that, if Harris wins (by no means guaranteed), the narrative around Israel could change somewhat after the election. (There’s also the possibility that Harris dislikes Biden’s kowtowing to Israel, but as the sitting Vice President, can’t really disagree with him in public and possibly screw up an ongoing negotiation. I don’t consider that likely, though. More likely is that Netanyahoo won’t budge until he sees the outcome of the election.)