Maybe. This outcome of the January 6 insurrection trials gives me hope.
Former Proud Boys leader Henry “Enrique” Tarrio, described by a judge as “the ultimate leader” who “was motivated by revolutionary zeal” in organizing members of his far-right group to spark the breach of the U.S. Capitol, was sentenced Tuesday to 22 years in prison, the longest sentence yet among the hundreds convicted of disrupting the peaceful transfer of presidential power on Jan. 6, 2021.
Let the punishment match the crime, and I think that’s a good punitive sentence that will discourage others from repeating this escapade. Even better: Tarrio was not one of the stupid goons who smashed windows and pounded on cops and barged into offices — he was a high level officer who stood back, wasn’t even in Washington DC, but incited the stupid goons and fired up the insurrection.
Tarrio, 39, was convicted of seditious conspiracy and obstructing the congressional proceeding meant to confirm the 2020 presidential election as part of a riot that U.S. District Judge Timothy J. Kelly said broke America’s long democratic tradition of peaceful transfers of power. Tarrio was the last of five Proud Boys to be sentenced after all were convicted in May following a 15-week trial.
Tarrio, of Miami, was convicted even though he wasn’t in Washington on Jan. 6. He had been arrested two days earlier for burning a “Black Lives Matter” flag torn down from a D.C. church during an earlier protest in the city following President Donald Trump’s defeat. He was banned from the city as a result.
Who else is now pretending innocence because they didn’t actually swing a stick? Who else was just telling goons to smash things? Maybe that person is going to face a sentence as severe as Tarrio’s. Lock ’em up for a decade or two.
But also, this got me wondering. I don’t know any Proud Boys, have never even met one, and if I did, I’m likely to just turn on my heel and walk away. Do you know any? It’s weird how this tiny, obnoxious fringe group is getting so much attention when what it deserves is revulsion, and how it has been a tiny bit successful in puncturing the stability of the country.
Similarly, who knows a real live Groyper? These are groups with insane, hateful ideologies that have somehow risen high in the popular (or, at least, media) consciousness, and have some strange aversive influence. I mean, seriously, if one of them showed up at a party at my house, they’d get the bum’s rush, and if they wouldn’t leave, I’d be calling the cops. I don’t understand how these people walk in public without getting their shoes spit on constantly.
Strange fact.
The founder and former leader of the Proud Boys terrorist group is and was a Canadian, Gavin McInnes.
Who frequently crosses the border and enters the USA.
I have no idea why we keep letting people like that into the USA.
Jordan Peterson is also a Canadian and…we let him in all the time too.
And McInnes’s wife is Native American via her mother’s side. They have 3 kids. Which makes his pushing things like white genocide conspiracy theories odd. He’s giving aid and comfort to people who might try to murder his wife and kids in the future.
I see that he’s said that he’s said that he’s ‘ashamed’ at what happened, while at least one of his ‘goons’ has withdrawn his apology. How long will his penitence last?
@ 3, his penitence will last until his final appeal has failed.
But, I disagree with PZ. Don’t spit on their shoes, think of me first, as I really don’t want spit all over my hands as I tie their shoelaces together.
What amazes me is, Tarrio got 22 years, but the Oath Breakers idiots got less and that group had weapons staged just outside of D.C. for their “QRF” to storm the city, armed with the weapons of war.
Lady Justice is not only blind, but a blithering idiot.
Sarah Palin On ‘Disheartening’ Jan. 6 Sentences: ‘Makes the Good Guy Think, What’s the Use in Being a Good Guy?’
Palin seems a bit confused about who the good guys are.
“Similarly, who knows a real live Groyper? These are groups with insane, hateful ideologies that have somehow risen high in the popular (or, at least, media) consciousness, and have some strange aversive influence. I mean, seriously, if one of them showed up at a party at my house, they’d get the bum’s rush, and if they wouldn’t leave, I’d be calling the cops. I don’t understand how these people walk in public without getting their shoes spit on constantly.”
It’s probably worth thinking of these groups as being something closer to Gamergate than to an association that might be a major part of someone’s external identity. While the figureheads and more involved members might live a “groyper” life, the vast majority of participants do it from behind a keyboard. The Proud Boys are more of a street gang than anything else, in the words of Gavin Macinnis “a drinking club” that unites around finding unarmed ‘antifa’ whenever they can arrange to outnumber them. I suspect that most of these guys also don’t make a big deal out of their association. (up here in Canada, they’d have to keep it quiet – they’re a designated terror group and it’s illegal to ‘support’ them here). But at its height, it’s not as if most of the people sending death/(and worse) threats to female game producers and journalists would have been publicly open about what they were doing, aside from the catpissmen, some people who might have seemed pretty outwardly normal and sane were engaged fervently in that online hate mob. I knew a couple, but didn’t know about their GG participation until long after the furore died down, even then they were cautious about how much of what they did they would discuss.
So to address the point above: if you were holding a house-party, it’s likely that any groyper in attendance (likely someone’s sullen teenager or recent post-teenager) would just keep quiet about their racial theories or trollish political views. Most of these folks aren’t stupid, they know what kinds of environments are safe for the free expression of their real views. If they are unsure, they might play a game of schroedinger’s douchebag – make some offhand offensive comment that, if you take it seriously, they will disavow and claim was just a joke. If you agree, they’ll probably test the waters a little more before opening up with sincerity. It’s only the facebook-mind-poisoned boomer-types, the “uncle franks” that can’t avoid loudly declaiming their political philosophy. Younger reactionaries are well practiced at hiding it.
One of the most frustrating things about modern reactionary politics is the utter nihilism and lack of sincerity to it. Everything is (allegedly) ironic and detached, everything is ‘just a joke’ until it isn’t. It is utterly impossible to engage in dialog with people in these communities, since they don’t actually hold any intellectual positions. Like all conservatives, their factual beliefs are contingent – if the belief serves their momentary goals, they will hold it. If the belief harms their goals, they will abandon it without regrets. So long as their emotional needs are met (hate, victimization complex, someone to look down upon) they can hold any factual notions as true until the moment it doesn’t serve them. Attempting to point out the contradictions in their positions from moment to moment will just result in them categorizing you as naive and someone who just doesn’t get it. You may be condemned for being ‘too serious’ and subsequently ignored.
Tarrio’s biography is pitiful. Lifelong petty criminal. No indication he even completed high school. Busted for theft at an early age. Convicted of fraud (selling bootleg diabetes test strips) serving 16 of 30 months. Worked as a snitch for the feds ratting out pot growers. Pompous ass cosplayer who fancies himself G.I. Joe. Basically, your ignorant street thug finding his place as the head blatherer in a gang of fellow failures.
Sadly, I don’t think 20-years of making license plates will help him. What I find ironic (of many things) is that the GOPQ cries crocodile tears over these domestic terrorists, Y’all Qaeda, who will leave prison and go right back into the “fight” while using the same “lock em up” rhetoric to keep Gitmo operating.
In her world, the right wingnut extremists are heroes.
Her latest is to call for a Civil War between them and the rest of the USA.
Sarah Palin doesn’t believe in democracy.
Take the USA back from who? The elected government?
This rather stupid politician was once the Vice President nominee for when John McCain was running for president.
Like a lot of right wingnut trolls, Palin isn’t even capable of running her own life.
Her husband left for unexplained reasons and her first few grandchildren were born out of wedlock even though she is a devout fundie xian.
None of her children went to college and one has been in trouble with the law for years.
I have a friend in the government and he has come along several examples of these folks. Some of them are embedded in our police, military, and homeland security services.
These are just the trashy insurrectionists. There will be a quite different standard för the aristocracy.
Fortunately, The Yellow Idiot has consistently ignored the advice of his lawyers, forcing the hand of both local and federal law enforcement.
The oligarchy will hate a precedent that says the top guys can be convicted, but it seems things are going this way.
I get “neo-Nazi” – it’s a label that makes sense. How does “neo-fascist” make sense, though? Is there a new reason to be a fascist now than what motivated Franco, Mussolini, or Mr. Hitler?
Anyway, I don’t know any. I do know there are several homes in the area where I live – a very conservative county in Oregon – that are flying Trump flags and the like, and a handful of pickup trucks that have all the fasc-adjacent bunting we’re familiar with. But I don’t know them. I don’t know what I’d do if I did.
Here’s the thing. If people of color were doing it we’d say “all people of color are fascists.” But when it’s white people we wonder if we know any. We instinctively pretend this isn’t a white problem. It’s insidious.
Speaking of a racist bigot and narcissist: Elon Musk threatens to sue Anti-Defamation League over lost X revenue. You know, X has lost billions in value since Musk took over, but it’s not because Elon is a crappy businessman. Oh no! It’s because ADL called out the platform for giving hate speech free rein. Of course, ADL isn’t the only one pointing out the X dip into the sludge. Why there’s even been criticism here at Pharyngula. Better watch out PZ. You’re such an influencer, you could be next on Elon’s petty snit radar.
… Henry “Enrique” Tarrio, described by a judge as “the ultimate leader” …
Sorry, Judge, the ultimate leader, after multiple arraignments, remains out on bail and continues to try to delay his trials.
And his leader was last reported planning a trip to Vladivostok to meet with another henchperson.
I’m usually not up for “delete this entire human” but these guys….? Yeah, they test my tolerance.
robro @ 12, Elon’s more than welcome to sic his legal hounds on me as well. I’ll happily pop on down to the local dog pound and adopt a superior in legal representation to whoever he sends.
To gently remind the court that, when we get our very first amendment wrong, the party and nation has ended.
I don’t need to know a card-carrying groyper. I’ve got my father.
@2 Cause the rules don’t apply to him. Hypocrisy is a feature, not a bug among right wing authoritarians. I scratch my head whenever I see guys like Michelle Malkin and Andy Ngo palling around white supremacists. The truth is, that they don’t think the racist rhetoric applies to them. They’re not black, feminist, or an SJW, therefore it’s fine for them to hang out with hateful dipshits who would happily lynch them if they could wind the clock back fifty years.
I highly recommend watching A Storm Foretold, the documentary about Roger Stone and his links with the Proud Boys. If Stone doesn’t end up with as long a sentence as Tarrio got something is seriously screwed up.
I had a weird Proud Boy adjacent moment on Facebook about two years ago. In response to some news article, I posted that any member of the Canadian armed forces found to be involved with the PBs should be summarily discharged and banned from owning firearms for life. A little later some rando called me an antisemitic Nazi in comments, which seems, um, counterintuitive. Especially because said rando is Jewish. Her logic (such as it was) seemed to be: the Proud Boys support Trump, Trump supports Israel, ergo opposing the Proud Boys makes one an antisemite.
These people are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. I decided to block her, without bothering to engage.
@ raven (#1):
We should build a wall! And make Canada pay for it!
19 stevewatson
I posted that any member of the Canadian armed forces found to be involved with the PBs should be summarily discharged
Sounds good to me but the only time I heard of an incident the three sailors were threatened with all sorts of things and told that they would be watched. This was before the PBs were outlawed.
Watching Glenn Kirchner’s tak as I read this RN.
Relatively tiny groups can assume spectacular degrees of importance and we need to pay attention. The Mensheviks and other major groups discovered this in Russia after 1917.
FWIW. I don’t know about “groypers” exactly – they aren’t that bad – but there’s a few people I know that I’m kinda friends with (& one brother) that I don’t talk talk politics with anymore because we very strongly disagree on some issues.. In my brothers case I’m not sur ehow much is serious and how much is just shit-stirring for shock value at times..
@ 20. Scott Simmons : “@ raven (#1): We should build a wall! And make Canada pay for it!”
British TV comedy-news show The Last Leg kinda did this already. See :
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/03/05/the-last-leg-bricking-it-for-canada-campaign-border-wall_n_9389574.html
Plus their clip introducing that here – under 5 mins long
@18. jonmelbourne :
Haven’t seen it all myself yet but apparently that Storm Foretold movie is here on youtube in full – 1 hr 33 mins long. Looks intresting.
My minor objection to your thoughtful reaction:
The 22 year sentence for Tarrio is not justice.
We are confined by legal and ethical limits on punishment. Justice would be much harsher.
Burr Deming @ 26, as I mentioned previously, the Oath Keepers leaders got 18 years, despite having a hotel room full of firearms and ammunition ready for their “QRF” to attack D.C. that day.
So, the unarmed man got more time on a sentence than the armed men did, who literally raised an actual threat to the government itself via armed revolt.