I have to admit that the rhetoric and the cadence are pretty damned effective. Jamal Bryant was busy taking out the trash.
That’s an art form, that’s what it is.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
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Ah yes, that US preacher style.
Not a parody of it, but the real thing.
Not for me, alas.
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wzrd1, you mean [email protected] ?
The art form is “oratory.”
Back in the 90s I worked for a hardcore baptist and I had to convince him of something, so I hypothesized that maybe the cadences and tones they use are a trained cue that basically says “believe this”, and put a bit of it into my voice. It worked! Not a solid experiment, but fun.
You’d think Warnock would be able to muster a little bit of that righteous fire on his own behalf, given he’s a preacher to MLK’s congregation.
Yeah, I’m thinking it’s too bad I don’t have the skill to insert that kind of oratory in my biology lectures. It would make them much more effective, I’m sure.
Yes, it’s preacher-style oratory, and I hope it works.
I will note, however, that as far as Black baptist preaching goes, this is kind of average; cf. MLK’s speeches.
When I was going to a Southern Baptist college in Tennessee in the late 60s we would sometimes tune in the radio on Sunday night to listen to a black preacher who was really good at that style. I think he was based in Dallas, Texas. There were a couple of white preachers in my youth who could almost achieve that kind of cadence but it was rare. Perhaps that’s partly because the white congregations wouldn’t join the song and especially not dance along. You’ll notice the people in the crowd joining in, shouting back, moving around, dancing. That was never done in a white church, well maybe an occasional “Amen” from the deacons bench. Having listened to some African music over the years, I suspect that style is an extension of call-and-response songs from the region.
I hope the IRS ignores this violation of the Johnson Amendment just like they ignore the vastly greater number of violations coming from right wing pastors.
White kidz: please note the major influences of black preachery on rock’n’roll.
larpar @ #8 — Wouldn’t that depend on if “Don’t Tell Me Tell the People” is a 501(3)(c) non-profit. It’s not clear what it is other than a Facebook page, YouTube channel, and Twitter account.
Pierce R. Butler @ #9 — Black gospel music in particular.
I want to speak like that when needed.
Though you know such speech will be dismissed as “anger” or “hate” in substanceless fashion. I’m working on that one but getting people to show the basic emotional state they are referring to is difficult because it’s nonsense to dismiss an emotion when emotions are connected to actions.
Our political language is very broken.
11 & 12 Brony, Social Justice Cenobite
Rhetoric is a learnable skill. It is possible to do 11 without invoking 12.
@seachange
It’s the ones doing the invoking of 12 that I’m working on opposing. Anything else but how we actually work it looks like gaslighting otherwise. Feelings are part of a cycle of emotion in consciousness.
robro @10
“Don’t Tell Me Tell the People” are just the folks who uploaded the “sermon”. The violation would be by whatever church this involves. Jamal Bryant is a pastor. He’s speaking behind a podium that has a cross on it, there are a lot of “amens” coming from the crowd. Looks like a sermon/church service to me.
I second (third) the complaints about electoral politics from the pulpit. I got no traction complaining about it on other social media. Look, I agree with the guy, politically, and admire his oratorical and rhetorical style. But he’s still violating his tax-exempt status, and that’s wrong.
It helps to have a deep, resonate voice for this style of oratory. James Earl Jones could read the phone book, and people would listen simply because his voice is such a pleasure to hear.
Preachers are allowed to preach whatever they want to their congregations. It’s got nothing to do with their tax-exempt status, otherwise you can be sure that Martin Luther King would have been muzzled long before he was assassinated.
All hail autocrap. Resonant, not resonate.
Tethys @17
They can talk about issues all they want, but they’re not supposed to talk about specific candidates. AFAIK
@19,
the IRS has long had a practice of looking the other way when right wing churches do this, so I’m glad to see more left churches do this. and if the IRS comes after them then they’ve got a long list of right wing churches to go after.
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/30/johnson-amendment-elections-irs/
@larpar
His church is in Atlanta, and this is Sundays sermon to the people that will suffer most if Walker gets elected. He is not sermonizing to the public at large on behalf of his charitable organization, so I don’t think their tax status is relevant.
Both those things fall under freedom of speech, and freedom of association. He isn’t lobbying congress. He is leading his flock.
Tethys @ #s 17 & 21 – The IRS code is quite clear: no politicking on behalf of or against specific electoral candidates by tax-exempt 501(c)(3) organizations. MLK kept within those bounds and still managed to get his message out. Many Republican preachers, and Jamal Bryant, fail – and the Treasury Dept fails to enforce its own regulation.
In past years, they’ve (under Bush and Obama administrations alike)
blamedexcused their failures by claiming enforcement orders must come from a certain official – while leaving that office unfilled year after year. I dunno whether Biden & Yellen have continued that neglect of duty; perhaps they or their flunkies have contrived a new loophole for their clerical friends (and enemies).Tethys:
Thing is, that interpretation applies equally well to any other preacher who leads their flock (nice appreciation of the word ‘pastor’ there!) by making the opposite case and endorsing Walker.
Tethys@21
If the church is a 501(c)(3) organization, then it’s a violation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Amendment
Religious organizations have a long history of being the force that pushes for progressive social change. Conscientious Objector status and the Abolitionist Movement both grew out of Quaker religious doctrine. Prohibition was a counter point to those examples, but the point stands.
Religion itself is protected, as is free speech.
He is expressing it as his personal opinion and concerns over the obvious immorality of Walker.
As an American pastor and resident of Georgia, his right to speak his personal beliefs about political reality, in his own church, is pretty absolute.
Tethys, be aware you’re saying this is perfectly fine in your estimation:
(https://www.ajc.com/politics/politics-blog/the-jolt-christian-leaders-rally-around-embattled-herschel-walker/ZLOGN6NTSBCQJBQSMC2ZDG336E/)
Tethys@25
You are just wrong.
Here it is from the IRS: https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/the-restriction-of-political-campaign-intervention-by-section-501c3-tax-exempt-organizations
Talking about issues is OK. Endorsing (or opposing) a specific person is not OK.
I’ve cited sources. What’s yours?
I do not know about any legal ramifications of his speech not being a scholar of the law.
I do know that he is expressing what I believe is the sentiment of a sizable segment of the electorate and not just the black segment either.
John
As a Baptist minister, Pastor is his actual title.
He has an undergraduate degree in political science, and a theological degree from Duke.
I had never heard of him before, but Georgia is the heart of the racist south, and it seems silly to bring up tax status about a resident of Georgia who is sounding the alarm on the real threat posed by Walker being elected to represent their congregation.
Um, Tethys, ‘pastor’ is the word for ‘shepherd’ in Spanish, so I didn’t have to know Latin to get its significance.
See, a shepherd leads a flock of sheep; in this case, sheeple.
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(sigh)
Care to address the thrust of my #26?
(Sauces, goose, gander)
I’m saying that freedom of speech and conscience are constitutional rights, which would make any attempt to claim this sermon violates tax codes moot. In case you haven’t noticed, religious people are currently trying to legislate away Roe vs Wade and Trans rights as a first step toward their white supremacist return to 1950.
The state cannot use the IRS to revoke a churches tax-status over what is stated as a personally held belief. Plenty of forced birthed organizations are tax-exempt, explicitly Christian, and openly political including endorsing and fielding candidates.
Tethys, OK, I get it: you don’t get it.
Exactly. And Evangelicals are the bulwark of that movement.
I leave it to you to determine whether you imagine that for every Anthony George there’s a Jamal Bryant. I very much doubt that.
Exactly. And you think that’s just fine and dandy — after all, “freedom of speech and conscience are constitutional rights”.
Freedom of Speech is not absolute, and it doesn’t mean freedom from consequences. Currently, the consequence for a pastor endorsing a particular candidate from the pulpit is the loss of tax exempt status. Right or wrong, left or right, enforced or not, that is what the law says.
A few days ago, I made a joke about triggering the cons by having Obama be Biden’s press secretary, but this guy would be great as well. Not to trigger the cons in his case, but to get the message out in a way that more people will listen to.
Just to be clear, Obama being the press secretary wasn’t the joke part, triggering the cons was. I think he would be great for the job. Especially since he has no further political ambitions and doesn’t have to hold back as much any more when dealing with idiots. Plus, it would really trigger the cons.
I was deliberately raised to not speak like that and I looooved listening to the poetry that would come out of my Southern relatives mouths. I actually had to practice to say ain’t properly .😄 . It’s bad that this style of speaking is perceived as ignorant because it not easy to think about what youre saying , work on the style of what you’re saying and throw in a few rhymes as well. This is one reason rap took off in the Black community because we value this poetic way of talking (even though I hate rap as a musical style) So yeah this style of speaking has to be learned and it’s not easy . Marcus you just gave me an idea about teaching evolution!