Anthony Bourdain has killed himself. This was a guy who was admired, whose job involved flying to exotic places and eating good food, while probably getting paid far more than I’ll ever see, and still, there was this seed of despair inside of him that led him to end his life.
That just tells me that depression is something deeper than anything that can be addressed by superficialities like more money and more people telling you how much they like you. He was an intelligent, charismatic person, and that wasn’t enough.
This hurts my heart to read. He inspired a lot of my travel and seemed like a decent guy. It’s awful to know he was in such an ugly place emotionally. His poor child.
Money and popularity are empty things. What surprises me (and saddens me) is he seemed very engaged in the world, intelligent, had something to say and was keen to listen to people from all walks of life and from the four corners of the earth. But if you had followed him on twitter, like I do, you could tell something was not right. He had demons – a deep anger and sadness inside.
Very sad to hear this
I knew about his trouble with addiction but had no idea he had ever been depressed.
I once read at Mr. Bourdain was on constant doses of antibiotics from the street foods etc he ate. He made jokes about his stomach troubles and the heavy and long courses of various antibiotics he was on after every season of the show. That struck me because I am VERY sensitive to histamines and I know from bitter experience that every time I go on a treatment with anything in the penicillin family of drugs, I will be dealing with depression and bad judgement. (I also can’t have anything fermented, fish sauce, miso, aged sausages etc.)
I can deal with it because I know what is causing it and where it is coming from. I know I am not going mad, it is just the chemical balance in my brain. However, in the years before I knew about the histamine sensitivity I came very close to suicide several times in my life, particularly if the treatment was over five days.
I feel the same way about Kurt Cobain. At the time I thought it was a really powerful thing to do. to commit suicide. I too was struggling with chronic depression. I was kind of angry when his manager called Kurt’s suicide a selfish act. Now I realize he was right. Suicide is a powerfully selfish thing, but that’s depression. It only cares about itself.
I hope his friends and family get the support they need.
giJoel, I would argue that suicide is an act that usually has unwanted consequences for others. The person who commits suicide really does not gain anything if they succeed. Also as someone who has been suicidal I do not see how implying or telling me that it would be selfish to do would have helped the situation.
I haz a big sad. Tonight I’m going to this great soul food place in Pittsburgh that he’d have enjoyed.
He was actually a great teacher, showing people how to enjoy other cultures and how to overcome xenophobia. We need people like him more than ever (and he probably knew that) but I’m just selfish: I will miss reading his books and watching him explore.
Sure, I only saw his public/tv face, but he always exuded such joy, curiosity, and delight in every new experience. His shows showed that many of the nationalist and ethnic divides among us just might be neutralized by something as simple as sitting down around a table together.
I don’t know what haunted/hunted him to this, especially considering the joy he found in his daughter, but I hope that his family and loved ones are able to cope as well as can be expected and that his work and that of those similar to him continue to break down walls.
Given how much it meant to Mr. Bourdain, that people open their minds and hearts to acceptance and friendship, I imagine the current state of affairs went a long way in increasing the depression. Fuck, it depresses me, and I don’t have a struggle with clinical depression or the like.
I always admired Bourdain for the work he did on his show, and my admiration for him increased when, seemingly well aware of the impending backlash, he called out the hospitality industry for its culture of toxic sexism in the wake of #metoo, and vehemently, empathetically supported Asia Argento in her claims against Weinstein once she gave him permission to do so.
I am so sorry for his family and loved ones. May they find peace and healing.
The disease of depression, for some, can be like a parasite which consumes more and more of its victim, but no matter how much it takes from you, is never satisfied, until ultimately it seems like one’s only option is to take it down with you before it infects everyone and everything you love. It’s not a rational act, but neither is it necessarily a selfish one from the suffering person’s perspective. Something to keep in mind.
This did not surprise me.
I read Kitchen Confidential as soon as it came out and I have read (and watched) virtually everything he wrote and filmed, and I could that, unlike the persona he created, that of a brash, courageous, in-your-face guy, he was a very sensitive and aware individual. LIttle remarks he made: how much he was devastated by the early death of his father; how he looked forward to his very first shot of heroin — many little things which added up.
Many people who take drugs, take them to lessen their pain of living. Bourdain’s twenty years of multiple addictions indicate that was his coping mechanism. And I think that, with his divorce from his 2nd wife, absence from his daughter, and the undoubtedly strong backlash from his support for Asia Argento, his sadness was too strong for him.
Remember it was only a couple of years ago that Stephen Fry attempted suicide and it was only his manager coming in and finding him that kept that lovely man on this earth.
If someone you care about is talking about suicide, is expressing through words or actions deep sadness, don’t ignore it, talk to them, draw them out, be compassionate, vulnerable, and determined.
It may be presumptuous, but he also made it a point to reach out to the vulnerable when he could. His Brazil episode stands out as he was talking to a performance protester (I hope I got the term right) in one if Rio’s favelas. He was facing eviction & struggling to survive at the time. Bourdain seemed drawn to that struggle, the world is… it seems preoccupied with stomping on it.
Nothing QUITE like layering a thick slab of guilt on top of the existing issues to make them so much better.
Saying this is dickish and means you don’t know, or at BEST don’t remember, what being suicidal feels like.
“chronic depression” is recently being highlighted by Wil Wheaton, of TNG fame, who has recently published memoirs of his lifelong struggle with debilitating anxiety and chronic depression. The memoir he is using as a personal therapy.
It is heartening to see alternative results to those taken by Spader and Bourdain.
*sigh*
?
I’d go so far as to say that being intelligent and charismatic are risk factors. Living in a society which tells you that you have everything everyone else wants, when you’re the only one who knows how miserable you are must be powerfully isolating. Nobody wants to hear the rich, successful guy telling them how much his life sucks.
Supporting abbeycadabra @13: Do we say that people who die of cancer are selfish? Do we say people who die of COPD are selfish? Do we say that people who die of anorexia are selfish? So why do people say that those who die of depression are selfish?
It is a terrible disease with a high mortality rate, not a moral failing. Calling it a moral failing will not save lives. Better treatments, more treatments, more research, more care, more compassion, that is what will save lives.
Every day millions of black people are being gunned down by police (and absolutely nobody is willing to talk about it) but the death of a wealthy white man gets endless attention. PZ used to understand when the same thing happened to Robin Williams. Why has he decided to become a blatant racist now?
#17 – Let me be the first to comment on your screed:
“What the fuck you talking about??”
Kate Spade–she of the handbags–committed suicide just a couple of days ago too. She was less than a year older than me. Like Bourdain, she was extremely successful at what she did, but none of it was enough to defeat the demons of severe depression.
@ npb596, #17
The most offensive thing about your trolling is just how lazy it is. Can you do no better?
@ abbeycadabra & JustaTech
Adding my voice in support of your comments. Suicide is a consequence of illness, pain, or desperation. It may be a “selfish” choice, but so are a thousand other decisions we make every bloody day. It’s “selfish” that I bought food for myself today, rather than spending all my money buying food for someone else who needs it more, but that’s not a helpful or useful observation.
(In general)
On the national news I watched last night, there was a story the rise in US suicides over recent years. The talking head rattled off a list of ‘causes,’ including drug use, untreated illness, financial troubles, relationship problems, etc. I have to give them credit- they did a good job of making it sound like they were all separate and unrelated, as opposed to largely being a symptom of how much of a shithole the United States already is, and how it’s getting worse.
Some people really find the dumbest of excuses to accuse PZ of racism or sexism or ableism.
See! See! Librul athiest professor is a hypocrit!!1!!11!!
(Snark, obviously)
But seriously…
Too many suicides lately. Several people quite close to me. Some others a little further away, but still. Scott Hutchison for example. Man, he was a brilliant musician and a brilliant person.
Mental diseases suck. They suck big time.
Silly comment. One suicide is too many already. Oh fuck.
@20 and 21
Where does this accusation of trolling come from? You have to be a troll to think it’s wrong for innocent people to die? Is that really how fucked up in the head you are? Give me one simple reason why the unwarranted murder of millions of people is an acceptable part of this world.
Did a google search for npb596 on Pharyngula and literally every comment of his was quite obvious trolling, so I’d recommend ignoring him (and banning him, for the admins).
Something I recall reading last year.
“Increase in Suicide in the United States, 1999–2014”
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db241.htm
Also I’ll leave a quote from Mr Bourdain.
I’m bipolar and I have a long history of depression. When you’re a creative person (I’m a computer programmer) depression robs you of your ability to be creative. All it leaves you is the ability to do rote, mechanical tasks. I call it “parody work”. During one of my worst depressions, I lost my job and was told by my employer that I was a fraud and had got my degree, my previous jobs, and all my good reviews under false pretenses. At that time suicide became a joyful alternative to any other future. I actually felt like I was finally accomplishing something positive and worthwhile as I planned it out. I was proud of what I planned to do.
Luckily, being bipolar my mood (how I hate the whimsy of that word!) changed before I could carry out my plan. It literally happens in a day or two for me. It took me a year to convince myself I wasn’t a fraud, but at least I didn’t kill myself.
I believe that every person is different, but I understand a little about where the recent celebrity suicides are coming from.
I should have added to my previous post, the more you have when you are depressed doesn’t get you out of your depression. It just gives you more to lose.
@ npb596, #23
Aww, you’re sweet, but no. Were that the limit of my depravity, I fear I would be nearly as dull as… well, it would be rude to name names, but you can see where I was going with that. Suffice to say, my iniquity is nearly the whole of me, and it is all the worse that now that I am aware of the depths of my sins.
But let us not make this thread all about us, hmm? It’s uncouth, and I’m already blushing.
Money. Now shoo.
vucodlak #29
I really enjoyed that comment. Alot.
May I offer you a wee dram of rum?
or fresh cucumber salad, if that better suits your needs.
From a Facebook friend; these numbers are specific to the US, so if you have numbers for other countries please share:
I love his quote about Henry Kissinger. Bourdain had real heart. Somewhere I read that depressed people are often unable not to feel others’ pain. That aligns with my own experience.
I salute you, Anthony. You did a lot of good and you held on as long as you could.
“Aww, you’re sweet, but no. Were that the limit of my depravity, I fear I would be nearly as dull as… well, it would be rude to name names, but you can see where I was going with that.”
No, I can’t see, I’m too dull. I hope you’re joking with your money comment although I don’t think racial injustice is a joking matter. It’s sad to me that someone like you (or Anthony Bourdain) will never understand how much people like me actually suffer. I can tell from your comments you must have everything handed to you like a wonderful childhood and a wonderful spouse and whatever else you could possibly desire.
npb596
You are trolling. Shoo now.
PSA
HTML lesson
Doing this
<blockquote>paste copied text here</blockquote>
Results in this
<b>bold</b>
bold
<i>italic</i>
italic
Using any of these will make your comments containing quotes from other commenters easier to understand. They will not help your comments make sense.
@npb596 #17
Lets pretend for a moment that you are arguing in good faith.
Where does this massive genocide by cops happen, prey? Because there is about 37 million black people in, for example, USA, so if “millions” are gunned down “every day” how come there still are any black people left there? It would take at the most 37 days to wipe them out at this rate.
What is true is that there is on average one person of color gunned down by police in USA every 28 hours. Approximately in one half of the cases there is no weapon found on the body afterward and in one quarter of the cases there is no evidence of a weapon other than the cops testimony.-click for source-
What is interesting here, and pertinent tangentialy to this topic, is that some of those gunned down people suffer from mental health problems.
Now to second statement of yours:
Well of course nobody is willing to talk about it, because it does not happen.
However there is plenty of people willing to talk about the real problem of police brutality in USA as stated by me. As evidenced by the occupy article that I linked to. And as can just brief search on FtB prove, that issue is talked about quite a lot on this network in general, and on Pharyngula in particular.
If you do not want to be called troll, maybe you should not lie? That is not a rhetorical hyperbole you are engaged in, that is a barefaced lie posted with the sole intent to inflame the topic by eliciting angry responses. Well, so far the responses were more like bemused by your quite inept and amateurish trolling.
____________________
@PZ
That is true. When depression grips the soul, every accomplishment fades into insignificance. All those things one did, all those people one helped, all those skills one acquired seem trivial, inconsequential, like anyone could have done it and it made no difference in the end anyway. Everything feels like Sysiphus’s work, pointless and exhausting. And there is no visible end to the struggle. Pleasurable or distracting experiences are hard to come by and addiction os one of them. But it does not lead anywhere too, only sends the spiral of self-destruction a few turns lower each time.
After a while suicide seems the only viable option.
It seems like the only rational option too.
@36 he’s trolling but he’s referencing the callous post PZ made when Robin Williams died, in which PZ bemoaned paying attention to the suicide of a wealthy white man instead of the plight of black kids being gunned down by police.
In addition to What a Maroon #31: in The Netherlands the number is 113.
@Charly
There are black people outside of the U.S. and it would take an awful lot longer than 37 days to kill all of us. Do the math on that after sorting out your ethnocentrism. Police brutality is not specific to the U.S. Also, your link leads to an error message, either you made a typo or it doesn’t exist. I’ve read FtB for years and have never seen this issue brought up. Interestingly, you couldn’t be bothered to link one of these many numerous FtB posts that mentions this. You may want to ask yourself why you’re so quick to minimize the issue of police brutality by saying it only happens so and so often and lots of people discuss it anyways so we’ve already got a solution coming and so forth. Seems like a very Pinkerian attitude. Being complicit in racism makes you racist. Sorry.
Ziss! Another one?
Depression knows no race, no class, no ability, no gender identity, no orientation.
It doesn’t care if you’re in the gutters or the richest man in the world or if you’re a movie star or starving artist.
It just grips you and sucks the life out of you. Like a Dementor.
Also, npb596 is a clawless coward. No claws, no fangs, just sour words and empty accusations.
npb596 #40
Charly’s link works for me, you must have screwed up something.
What do you mean by ?
npb596 apparently is so stupid, they forgot the long series of posts about the Ferguson shooting and its aftermath. PZ has covered the topic the troll is whining about. Typical ignorant asshole.
Your fact is wildly wrong.
The number of black people gunned down by the police is .75 per day, or 275 per year.
You are off by a factor of over 1 million.
And people talk about it constantly including PZ Myers.
Two lies in the first sentence alone.
Told you so.
Simple troll minds are very predictable.
This one isn’t very imaginative with his Fake Concern Trolling.
Kate Spade fashion designer, also committed suicide last week.
Liz Crokin, a right wingnut activist, has already called her a satanist and pedophile.
There is a word for trolls like npb, Liz Crokin, the fundie xians, etc. who show up online, insult and abuse the dead, and derail threads with irrelevant concern trolling.
They are Ghouls.
Low level, unimaginative, underachieving Ghouls to be sure.
Eating valuable seconds and minutes of your attention.
@chigau
The link still doesn’t work for me. I can’t imagine how I screwed something up simply by clicking a link. By “this” I mean police brutality against black people.
@Nerd of Redhead
I didn’t forget about anything. I’ve actively read this site since before the Ferguson shooting and I don’t remember any posts about it here. A google search also brings up nothing. You also curiously did not post a link to any of these numerous posts. Making statements with no evidence doesn’t prove the statement correct. I don’t know your educational background but it seems you missed out on learning logic and science.
@raven
You essentially repeated Charly’s point so see my rebuttal to them.
42 pages of PZ’s posts on race, society, and social justice, including many on Ferguson and other police shootings.
Now shut the fuck up about it until you’ve read every last one of them, including the comments.
npb596 @48:
Really?
@npb596
You made a positive claim, it is your burden to provide evidence. Your attempts at shifting the burden of proof onto others are quite clumsy and fool no-one.
So I am asking you again, where in the world Every day millions of black people are being gunned down by police. It should not be difficult to provide evidence of a genocide that dwarfs Holocaust.
But you of course will not provide evidence, but you wil blatantly lie about links provided by other people not working.
Oh btw, you are contradicting yourself with these two statements:
The post about Robbie Williams was also about the Ferguson shooting of Mike Brown.
You are really bad at this trolling business. Where did you get your education, at Trump University? The first rule of lying properly is to keep your lies consistent with each other.
npb596, you obviously are stupid, forgetful, and a total asshole. The Ferguson shooting comments went on for months. Either you lied about reading the blog during that time, or you purposefully forgot like any asshole troll does. Your lack of googlefu makes you seem totally incompetent. There is also a website search function on the sidebar, increasing your show of incompetence. Nobody should have to do your homework for something so big and obvious, which is why I didn’t do it for you.
@Maroon
The vast majority of those 42 pages have nothing to do with Ferguson or any other incidences of police brutality. PZ only posted about Ferguson around the time it was trendy to do so and has been entirely silent on it after that. I imagine Mike Brown’s family still hasn’t forgotten but why should PZ care about them or the other families scarred by similar incidents?
@Charly
If you combine the amount of black people killed by police in the U.S., Canada, U.K., Germany, South Africa, Mali, Iran, Israel, China, France, Australia, Brazil, Zimbabwe and a host of other countries it adds up to that much. Nothing I’ve said has any contradictions. Your inability to read English belies the fact that you would rather put your fingers in your ears and shoo away the problems of the world than face the very real issue of police brutality, which you seem to think is nonexistent.
@Nerd of Redhead
There is a well-known logical fallacy called “ad hominem”. You may want to use your own googlefu to find out about it before writing an entire paragraph consisting of that fallacy.
Troll in the dungeon!
Those goalposts are heavy; it takes a troll to move them.
I’m familiar with the concept. You, being an asshole troll, aren’t. I call you as liar and bullshitter because you lie, bullshit, and others than me have found you lack of veracity to be telling. In other words, most of us look at you as nothing but pond slime.
Can you even recognize the truth, not your perverted version of it, or even admit you are wrong when conclusive evidence is shown you lie and bullshit?
I know better. If you aren’t a liar and bullshitter, show with a link Charly’s asking you for evidence of millions of blacks being killed daily is wrong. We both know better asshole. Yes, your nym is tarnished by your own actions.
Congrats to dickbag596, you managed to derail an important topic of conversation in favor of your personal need for chaos.
@npb596
You still have not provided any evidence. Links, please, that prove that “Every day millions of black people are being gunned down by police.. Your word is not evidence.
You are moving the goalposts again, and very clumsily so. First you said that PZ does not want to talk about a nonexisting black genocide, then you said that there were no posts about Ferguson shooting whatsoever, now you claim that there were some but only when it was trendy. Again, you did not manage the art of trolling yet. You are supposed to move the goalposts gently, so it is hard to notice and pin it down exactly.
But this really made me laugh out loud (emhpassis mine):
The number of people killed by police in Germany any day of the year is zero. Sure, a few people are shot throughout the year, but not daily.
And Zimbabwe, heh, a country that is over 99% black, has problem with racialy motivated police shootings of black people? C’mon. You are really bad at this.
You were talking out of your ass and you wrote a definitive yet completly nonsensical and false statement. You forgot to insert enough vague weasel words to allow you wriggle space. You know this, we know this, it was immediately apparent and is quite evident. What fascinates me about people like you is that I completely fail to understand your motives. I cannot emphatise with you at all. Why do you do this? Why are you trying to get people angry so hard that you have to lie in order to do it? Has it something to do with your evident intellectual inadequacy, or do you get a hard on only when you manage to rile up someone?
You definitively are not funny or witty, you are not edgy or controversial, you are not provocative or inspiring. You are sad and pathetic, like a drunkard shouting incoherently in the middle of a crowd. Only the drunkard has at least the excuse of being influenced by a chemical addling his brains, whilst you do not have even that.
@Charly
You already singled out the U.S. as disproving my point. I made the obvious point then that I was referring to brutality all over the world and now you are singling out individual countries as disproving my point again. What are you missing? Add up all the countries and there is an insane amount of racially motivated police brutality. As for Zimbabwe, two points. Firstly, there is such a thing as internalized racism. Zimbabwe was colonized by white imperialists in the past. Secondly, even majority black cities like Detroit and Memphis still suffer from white-on-black police brutality so being majority black, as Zimbabwe is, doesn’t make you immune, unfortunately. You seem to have a single-minded focus on my one hyperbolic statement that millions are killed every day. Yes, it was hyperbole, a common and usually uncontroversial rhetorical tool. Are you going to keep sitting here and saying that police brutality isn’t a problem because of how “few” black people are actually being killed? Since I’ve been asked to I will provide links in the off chance any of you are actually willing to engage with this issue.
Germany
Zimbabwe
I assume your response will be something like “ONLY that many blacks killed? You were wrong haha” thus proving my point that you all really couldn’t care less about innocent black people dying for no good reason. That is the sad thing here. That is why I keep repeating my point and “trolling” (which is to say, sincerely trying to acknowledge a real problem with the world, not what most would call trolling but for some reason what most on this site would call trolling).
@Charly
You already singled out the U.S. as disproving my point. I made the obvious point then that I was referring to brutality all over the world and now you are singling out individual countries as disproving my point again. What are you missing? Add up all the countries and there is an insane amount of racially motivated police brutality. As for Zimbabwe, two points. Firstly, there is such a thing as internalized racism. Zimbabwe was colonized by white imperialists. Secondly, even majority black cities like Detroit and Memphis still suffer from white-on-black police brutality so being majority black, as Zimbabwe is, doesn’t make you immune. You seem to have a single-minded focus on one hyperbolic statement that millions are killed every day. Yes, it was hyperbole, a common and usually uncontroversial rhetorical tool. Are you going to keep sitting here and saying that police brutality isn’t a problem because of how “few” black people are actually being killed? Since I’ve been asked to I will provide links in the off chance any of you are actually willing to engage with this issue.
Germany
Zimbabwe
I assume your response will be something like “oh comon, ONLY that many blacks killed? You were wrong haha” thus proving my point that you all really couldn’t care less about innocent black people dying for no good reason. That is why I keep repeating my point and “trolling” (which is to say, sincerely trying to acknowledge a real problem with the world, not what most would call trolling).
@Charly
You already singled out the U.S. as disproving my point. I made the obvious point then that I was referring to police brutality all over the world and now you are singling out individual countries as disproving my point again. What are you missing? Add up all the countries and there is an insane amount of racially motivated police brutality. As for Zimbabwe, two points. Firstly, there is such a thing as internalized racism. Zimbabwe was colonized by European imperialists in the past. Secondly, even majority black cities like Detroit and Memphis still suffer from white-on-black police brutality so being majority black, as Zimbabwe is, doesn’t make you immune, unfortunately. You seem to have a single-minded focus on my one hyperbolic statement that millions are killed every day. Yes, it was hyperbole, a common and usually uncontroversial rhetorical tool. Are you going to keep sitting here and saying that police brutality isn’t a problem because of how “few” black people are actually being killed? That is the sad thing here. That is why I keep repeating my point and “trolling” (which is to say, sincerely trying to acknowledge a real problem with the world, not what most would call trolling but for some reason what most on this site would call trolling).
You may also want to know that I have been trying to post links as evidence of my point but I wasn’t able to post at all until I removed the links. Admittedly a weird issue and probably one that will lead to more accusations of trolling but there it is.
At least this troll puts more effort into it than the usual drive-by chuds that we usually get
Curious to know why the troll objects so much to us discussing suicide.
Even if we put the amount of black people at 2 billion and assume that “millions” means two, black people must have stopped existing years ago.
@npb596
Oh my, you really are bad at this. Now you are trying a U-turn without the handbrake. You know, lying about what other people have said might work if spanned across multiple topics, but not on one page.
Me in #36:
You in #59:
Your’e no fun anymore, little troll. Go suck a pacifier and do not try to talk to adults for awhile. You do not have the nous yet.