I like this, even though the musician in me is cringing at the phrase “reaches a crescendo”
Ah well, the person who wrote this must not be a musician. The sentiment remains solid, regardless of the musical terminology.
multitoolsays
At first I liked these ‘resist’ declarations but they are always long on diatribe and short on actual plans or specifcs.
After we’re done stomping around will there be, like, a strategy somewhere? Actions that will affect things?
rietpluimsays
Well said. You don’t want to be the second country in human history with a Führer-elect.
nathanieltaggsays
Yeah, I’m in the same boat as multitool: I see and feel lots of outrage, but I’m not sure where to direct it usefully. Just having lots of generic protests might help solidify the image of Trump as illegitimate… but only in the eyes of people who are directly in the the line of the protests.
The website suggests that “teachers and students”… have “walk-outs” and “teach-ins” but I’m not certain how either of those really contribute to anything. (I’m a professor and I have no idea what I would do for a ‘teach-in’)
slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem))says
Already jumped into membership of this the moment it appeared. Desperate as I am to support all objections to DrumPence
Mobiussays
This is the same comment I left on Freethought Resistance…
While I am thoroughly against the orange fascist, I think it is incorrect to say his election is illegitimate. According to the Constitution the Electoral College decides the winner, and not the popular vote. And Trump did win the Electoral College.
To claim his presidency is illegitimate is to play the same games the Republican fringe played for 8 years with Obama. We should be better than that.
However, I do think it is proper to point out that he did not win the popular vote and that claims of a landslide and a mandate are inappropriate. Trump needs to be reminded that he serves ALL Americans and that the majority of them do not view him favorably.
qwintssays
@multitool, occupy started with just an announcement in adbusters. Sometimes all you need is a rallying point or a rallying cry.
rietpluimsays
Mobius, legal =/= legitimate. Electoral College is useless if it blindly votes for the candidate who won the most electors.
qwintssays
For those near to DC, here’s a way to get to the Women’s March on Washington, which looks to be one of the biggest and earliest actions against Trump.
I think protesting is *good*, not least because it connects motivated people together over great distances.
But another thing is we need everyone to know that the upcoming mid term elections are REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT, like life or death important. Trump needs Congress to grease his skids, and this is our biggest window to fuck that up.
We have the numbers to do this, we just have to get them out of their houses.
marcolisays
I hate Trump and the emergent right with every fiber of my being, but this is hyperbole. Sorry, but most sensible people can see that what is being used here are mainly scare words rather than a description of the truth. It can be dismissed out of hand by those on the left, and also legitimately mocked by those on the right.
I know the rebuttal to this will be something like ‘yeah, that’s what they said in the early stages of Mussolinis’ assent to power’. But our governing system is set up with complex, independent branches. Our economy is far too robust for it to collapse into a soul sucking depression. One would require a far more unstable political and economic system for our country to collapse into a failed state, and it would be from this that something like fascism — and I mean real honest to gosh fascism, could emerge.
Greta Samsasays
marcoli, #11
When it comes to that, the President is leader of the military, which is all that matters. He’s also engineered his own Sturmabteilung. Congress doesn’t have the capacity to compel him to leave office or accept the outcome of a vote.
Reginald Selkirksays
This is convenient; People signing the petition is a great way to let them know who needs to be rounded up first.
taraskansays
They can do what they want with their money, and I’m certainly not going to say anything truly negative can come of it, but that ad is completely useless. I’m with @10, it’s far more worthwhile to finance people who can win upcoming local elections than throw a pity party to an already liberal audience to the tune of $100,000 / page (and yes that is what that ad cost them).
Nothing short of a coup is stopping the inauguration, and really not even Obama was in a position to do that.
DanDaresays
Set up an alternate government. Resist laws from the Trump government that are bad. Refuse to enact or support them. Take over the beuracracy and get it to ignore Trump etc. Overthrow the government and rewrite the constitution where it handles elections and dialogue with the population.
That’s what that message is implying. Tear down the institution and start again.
quillsays
If you want to oppose Trump in the short term, you need to generate opposition among moderate or conservative voters in red districts or states or generate opposition among parts of the Republican Congressional majority. The types of statements in this kind of ad will not only fail at that task but will make it harder by serving as a rallying point for partisan opposition. (Unlike past Republican Presidents, Trump neither cares nor pretends to care what the other side thinks.)
In the medium term, opposing Trump means trying to win the House in 2018 and possibly defeat Senator Ing of Nevada. It is very hard to see how this ad advances those goals. It wastes money that could otherwise be spent elsewhere more effectively; it is unlikely to activate voters who failed to turnout in 2016 or persuade those who voted Republican not to repeat their vote.
Pointing out all the horrible things that Trump says and does is necessary and helpful. Questioning the legitimacy of Trump’s election…not so much.
multitoolsays
We *also* need to set up a state within the state, or as close as we can get to that.
For any given unforeseen mess the Trumpistas throw at us, our best hope for survival is to have each others’ backs with physical resources and genuine democracy to allocate those resources.
We can’t just live from battle to battle, we need to start piecemeal building the world we actually want, or we will disintegrate every time the conflict pauses.
It would have been good to have started this decades ago.
Petal to the Medalsays
I’m totally sympathetic with this protest’s motives & goals, but I’m not very optimistic about the outcome. Remember the 1971 May Day protests: “Stop the war or we’ll stop the government”? They failed to stop the government, & the war dragged on for 4 more years. It will be a pleasant surprise if this protest succeeds, but I’m not getting my hopes up.
appleheadsays
Occupy didn’t defeat fascism.
Bombs and bullets did.
multitoolsays
On the average, bombs and bullets have done more to support fascism than to defeat it.
I’m tired of that meme.
One out of a million times, a shotgun will blow the cancer out of someone’s body. So now America is Doctor Shotgun, puzzled why no one is grateful for his therapy.
I mean, I get where you’re coming from, that words without action are useless, but violence will bite us in the ass. It’s better to jam the system physically from the inside before we leap for the dynamite.
multitoolsays
What I said may not be fair. I’m not really reacting to applehead, but to the fact that right-wingers use WW2 as a perpetual justification for violence as the Gateway to All Freedoms, when in fact it is the opposite.
Violence has always been the #1 tool for destroying freedom. But this isn’t your argument; I’m arguing with my own flashbacks, apologies.
I like this, even though the musician in me is cringing at the phrase “reaches a crescendo”
Ah well, the person who wrote this must not be a musician. The sentiment remains solid, regardless of the musical terminology.
At first I liked these ‘resist’ declarations but they are always long on diatribe and short on actual plans or specifcs.
After we’re done stomping around will there be, like, a strategy somewhere? Actions that will affect things?
Well said. You don’t want to be the second country in human history with a Führer-elect.
Yeah, I’m in the same boat as multitool: I see and feel lots of outrage, but I’m not sure where to direct it usefully. Just having lots of generic protests might help solidify the image of Trump as illegitimate… but only in the eyes of people who are directly in the the line of the protests.
The website suggests that “teachers and students”… have “walk-outs” and “teach-ins” but I’m not certain how either of those really contribute to anything. (I’m a professor and I have no idea what I would do for a ‘teach-in’)
Already jumped into membership of this the moment it appeared. Desperate as I am to support all objections to DrumPence
This is the same comment I left on Freethought Resistance…
While I am thoroughly against the orange fascist, I think it is incorrect to say his election is illegitimate. According to the Constitution the Electoral College decides the winner, and not the popular vote. And Trump did win the Electoral College.
To claim his presidency is illegitimate is to play the same games the Republican fringe played for 8 years with Obama. We should be better than that.
However, I do think it is proper to point out that he did not win the popular vote and that claims of a landslide and a mandate are inappropriate. Trump needs to be reminded that he serves ALL Americans and that the majority of them do not view him favorably.
@multitool, occupy started with just an announcement in adbusters. Sometimes all you need is a rallying point or a rallying cry.
Mobius, legal =/= legitimate. Electoral College is useless if it blindly votes for the candidate who won the most electors.
For those near to DC, here’s a way to get to the Women’s March on Washington, which looks to be one of the biggest and earliest actions against Trump.
http://rallybus.net/womens-march-on-washington
I think protesting is *good*, not least because it connects motivated people together over great distances.
But another thing is we need everyone to know that the upcoming mid term elections are REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT, like life or death important. Trump needs Congress to grease his skids, and this is our biggest window to fuck that up.
We have the numbers to do this, we just have to get them out of their houses.
I hate Trump and the emergent right with every fiber of my being, but this is hyperbole. Sorry, but most sensible people can see that what is being used here are mainly scare words rather than a description of the truth. It can be dismissed out of hand by those on the left, and also legitimately mocked by those on the right.
I know the rebuttal to this will be something like ‘yeah, that’s what they said in the early stages of Mussolinis’ assent to power’. But our governing system is set up with complex, independent branches. Our economy is far too robust for it to collapse into a soul sucking depression. One would require a far more unstable political and economic system for our country to collapse into a failed state, and it would be from this that something like fascism — and I mean real honest to gosh fascism, could emerge.
marcoli, #11
When it comes to that, the President is leader of the military, which is all that matters. He’s also engineered his own Sturmabteilung. Congress doesn’t have the capacity to compel him to leave office or accept the outcome of a vote.
This is convenient; People signing the petition is a great way to let them know who needs to be rounded up first.
They can do what they want with their money, and I’m certainly not going to say anything truly negative can come of it, but that ad is completely useless. I’m with @10, it’s far more worthwhile to finance people who can win upcoming local elections than throw a pity party to an already liberal audience to the tune of $100,000 / page (and yes that is what that ad cost them).
Nothing short of a coup is stopping the inauguration, and really not even Obama was in a position to do that.
Set up an alternate government. Resist laws from the Trump government that are bad. Refuse to enact or support them. Take over the beuracracy and get it to ignore Trump etc. Overthrow the government and rewrite the constitution where it handles elections and dialogue with the population.
That’s what that message is implying. Tear down the institution and start again.
If you want to oppose Trump in the short term, you need to generate opposition among moderate or conservative voters in red districts or states or generate opposition among parts of the Republican Congressional majority. The types of statements in this kind of ad will not only fail at that task but will make it harder by serving as a rallying point for partisan opposition. (Unlike past Republican Presidents, Trump neither cares nor pretends to care what the other side thinks.)
In the medium term, opposing Trump means trying to win the House in 2018 and possibly defeat Senator Ing of Nevada. It is very hard to see how this ad advances those goals. It wastes money that could otherwise be spent elsewhere more effectively; it is unlikely to activate voters who failed to turnout in 2016 or persuade those who voted Republican not to repeat their vote.
Pointing out all the horrible things that Trump says and does is necessary and helpful. Questioning the legitimacy of Trump’s election…not so much.
We *also* need to set up a state within the state, or as close as we can get to that.
For any given unforeseen mess the Trumpistas throw at us, our best hope for survival is to have each others’ backs with physical resources and genuine democracy to allocate those resources.
We can’t just live from battle to battle, we need to start piecemeal building the world we actually want, or we will disintegrate every time the conflict pauses.
It would have been good to have started this decades ago.
I’m totally sympathetic with this protest’s motives & goals, but I’m not very optimistic about the outcome. Remember the 1971 May Day protests: “Stop the war or we’ll stop the government”? They failed to stop the government, & the war dragged on for 4 more years. It will be a pleasant surprise if this protest succeeds, but I’m not getting my hopes up.
Occupy didn’t defeat fascism.
Bombs and bullets did.
On the average, bombs and bullets have done more to support fascism than to defeat it.
I’m tired of that meme.
One out of a million times, a shotgun will blow the cancer out of someone’s body. So now America is Doctor Shotgun, puzzled why no one is grateful for his therapy.
I mean, I get where you’re coming from, that words without action are useless, but violence will bite us in the ass. It’s better to jam the system physically from the inside before we leap for the dynamite.
What I said may not be fair. I’m not really reacting to applehead, but to the fact that right-wingers use WW2 as a perpetual justification for violence as the Gateway to All Freedoms, when in fact it is the opposite.
Violence has always been the #1 tool for destroying freedom. But this isn’t your argument; I’m arguing with my own flashbacks, apologies.