Via Joe.My.God, we get An Accurate History of the Alt-Right
, as told by Andrew Anglin at The Daily Stormer (no, I’m not linking to those assholes). It’s remarkable. Anglin lists the elements that combined to create the Alt-Right, and they are:
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Internet troll culture
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Conspiracy theorism
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Libertarianism/Paleoconservatism
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The Manosphere
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#GamerGate
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The Old White Nationalist Movement
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Identitarian Movements (which he can’t distinguish from white nationalism)
I feel like mentioning to him that those are all bad things. Why are you listing all the worst elements of human behavior as if they were something of which they should be proud? “I have made this delicious casserole out of the most pungent, disgusting things I could fish out of a sewer. Are you not proud of me?”
He also lists the Alt-Right’s “values”, which include anti-semitism, “scientific” racism, and opposition to feminism. Again, these are not virtues.
As for “normie”, he also defines a bunch of jargon used by the Alt-Right.
“Normie” is a term used to refer to individuals who have not yet joined the Alt-Right, remaining trapped in the mental-prison of the Jewish system. These people are viewed as being incapable of objectively processing information, and will instead revert to programmed slogans whenever they are presented with ideas that conflict with their synthetic value system.
Says the guy who reflexively responds to dismissals of his hate with cries of “cuck!”
Anglin projects like IMAX.
What a perfect description of Trump followers. Or the radical right. Or the racist alt.right. Or right wing Christianity. Or global warming denialists. Or creationists. Or two volunteers and one staff member I work with.
Kind of interesting, actually. In a world where a given cognitive distortion is the norm, the lack of it is seen as the cognitive distortion.
Bush and the GWoT promoted filtering (“where are the good Muslims?”), polarized thinking (“you’re either with us or with the terrorists”), over generalization (“Muslims want to destroy our way of life”), and catastrophization (“we’re in a battle for the survival of America, and of freedom itself!”).
This style of thinking is so normalized that they accuse everyone else of the cognitive distortions. At least, those who they don’t outright accuse of colluding with the terrorists.
Side note: having had successful therapy myself, I hesitate to glibly characterize your average rightie as “evil,” nor of course as “mentally ill.” It’s easy to see the cognitive distortions that they’re in the grip of, and to a person with a cognitive distortion the threat is very real. They actually believe there are sleeper cells in every masjid, like their parents believed there were commits under every bed. I tend to think they’re more to be pitied than scorned.
(Which wouldn’t make me take it lying down if one of them decided to harm others in a sincere, misguided belief that they’re in imminent danger. Self defense law has a “reasonable person” standard for a reason: delusions don’t turn violence into self defense.)
So, if everyone not them are ‘normies’, doesn’t that, by definition make them abnormies?
He forgets one important part: outright fascism, seeing how the alt-right movement contains large elements of anti-democracy, antipathy to freedom of individuals to fall outside “their” norm, and hate for freedom of speech.
wzrd1
No, they see themselves as better than the normies, as a new “elite” who has “seen through the veil put over the eyes of the population”. This part of their ideology comes of course directly from their conspiracy-theory roots, and has overlap with their roots within the various neo-fascist movements.
#GamerGaters are overwhelmingly Sanders supporters. How are they Alt-Right? Unless you’re finally admitting that the Berniebro movement was functionally indistinguishable from the Alt-Right, an admission that would require more honesty and self-awareness than you’ve displayed thus far.
0-0 I’ve never heard this term, but I associate it with extinct life forms, and visualize dead dinosaurs. Jewish system? I seem to remember something about Maronites and doctrinal church schisms over the Pentateuch, but somehow I don’t think that is the system he is referring to.
Fairly certain they’ve stolen the term “normies” from the ASD community, where we refer to people not on the spectrum that way. That could be my corner of the community, though.
“Cuck” is just the most ridiculous absurd insult I’ve ever heard. It just doesn’t work.
But it does make me burst into some Hamilton every time I see it*, so there’s that.**
(*Uh-oh! You made the wrong sucker a cuckold! Time to pay the piper for the pants you unbuckled!)
(**although that’s one of my least favorite parts, because it highlights that Hamilton casts women as either saints or literally spelled-out whores with no other characterization.)
Bernie Sanders did not trumpet immigrant hate slogans and nativist jargon at his audiences.
Your logic is also wrong. Squirrels love nuts. People love nuts. Therefore, humans are indistinguishable from squirrels.
Are GrammarGraphers actually overwhelmingly Sanders supporters? It wouldn’t surprise me about BBros being alt right.
I’m glad that I heard that from a biologist. I was worried that I needed new glasses. ;)
@12, it wouldn’t surprise me if you were a neoreactionary. GG didn’t even have a significant minority of Sanders supporters (and vice versa).
I thought Milo Y. was all up in GamerGate, and I doubt he supported Sanders. (I don’t know how GamerGaters break down politically. I’d bet there are few Clinton supporters, but mostly because ‘assertive woman who says sexism is a thing’ is probably enough to turn them off. So that implies whatever percentage of GamerGaters are American liberals, they probably supported Sanders and were more likely to be BernieOrBust. Maybe they overlap with the people who somehow switched from Sanders to Gary Johnson, because I can’t imagine that switch making sense by most other standards besides ‘any man who is not Donald Trump’*.)
* Or maybe ‘hey, Libertarians want to loosen drug laws, right?’
He makes “normies” sound barely human. And therefore, presumably, not really deserving of human rights?
You got me confused for a minute. When reading the list, I thought: “That’s actually a very accurate description. Why doesn’t PZ link to it?” And then I understood. Those guys don’t even deny being racist bullies… They are fuckin’ proud of it.
Human Biodiversity should be added to the list.
@wzrd1
Game, set, match.
HBD is pretty much the same thing as “scientific” racism.
@7 and 12
If history is any guide there is nothing Nazis love more than Jewish Democratic Socialists. Wait no…the other thing.
Side note: I despise paleolibertarianism with a passion. Those folks just want the liberty to oppress minorities in peace
I frequently “revert to programmed slogans whenever [I am] presented with ideas that conflict with [my] synthetic value system.” My programmed slogan is “What do the verifiable facts demonstrate?”
It usually stops the conversation dead, one of two ways: Silence, or increased volume with repetition as if the speaker with the conflicting ideas is an “ugly American” trying to make someone who doesn’t speak English understand by being louder. Come to think of it…
drst: “Fairly certain they’ve stolen the term “normies” from the ASD community, where we refer to people not on the spectrum that way. That could be my corner of the community, though.”
That’s common. Also, a bunch of 4chaners who are or pretend to be ASD and call themselves robots also use “normies” for non-robots. And 4chan fed a lot of the culture that has been adopted into the alt-right. They’re basically the central hive of internet troll culture.
Stacy DeathSatan
Citation seriously needed. At least the figureheads and idols of the GG movement are full-on RWNJ and Trump supporters.
Sigh,
Stacy DeathSatan
Citation seriously needed. At least the figureheads and idols of the GG movement are full-on RWNJ and Trump supporters.
Who is this “you” you are referring to? PZ? You do know it was neo-nazi Andrew Anglin who calls GG part of the alt right, yes? And not PZ?
And while he (Anglin) is a piece of shit scum, I agree with him on this, that there is probably a huge overlap between GGers and alt rightists.
wzrd1 (#4)
No no no, it makes them “special snowflakes.” Be sure to insist on that if you’re ever faced with one. Then, when they try to correct you that a “special snowflake” is only used for SJWs and [slurs], you can develop a sudden case of extremely dim wits where you just cannot understand what makes non-conformity contempt-worthy in liberals but something to feel smug about in conservatives.
Mike Smith (#21)
Whereas you’d rather have the liberty to oppress minorities in ignorance.
[citation needed]
I mean, really? That’s not at all what “normie” means. “Normie” is just used by groups of people to refer to people outside their group who “don’t understand” them. Depending on the group this can be harmless or not. For example, some tabletop RPG players refer to people who are not knowledgeable about the genre as “normies”, the logic being that THEM, the ones who are really “obsessed” about RPGs are the “weird ones”. It’s just used as an alternative term to “not someone who knows everything about RPGs”, you know?
I’m lucky I don’t live in an English speaking country, so that’s not a word we have here, because I’d hate to be mistaken for a fucking idiot like that just because I jokingly refer to some people as more “normal” than me, in some contexts.
zenlike@25,
Carl Benjamin (“Sargon of Akkad”) , with typical stupidity, has expressed some support for both Sanders and Trump. I can’t find any evidence that any of the other prominent GGs have done so, but I have seen comments elsewhere indicating there is GG/BernieBro overlap – possibly on “anyone but Hillary” grounds. I very much doubt it’s the “overwhelming majority” of GGs who support Sanders, however, given the prominence of far-right scum such as Milo Yiannopoulos and Davis Aurini among the former’s leaders.
Wasn’t “normie” originally a 4chan term for “normal” people who don’t use the internet that often or look at anime porn?
What does it say about the alt-right that they’re unable to create their own culture, and so they just go around stealing culture from others like Hitler storming across Europe?
I hope one day we can rescue Pepe from their clutches.
I have little evidence other than my own personal experiences, but all my gamergate friends (and I use the term loosely, as I really only know them from tabletop gaming) are also Bernie supporters. And yes they are in the “anybody but Shillary Clit-ton” camp, as well as Bernie or bust.
@Jaws, but dontya know, increased volume proves the validity of the non-point being sprayed out of their shouting pie hole.
@A. Noyd, I adopt a density slightly greater than the neutronium at the core of a neutron star, misapprehending the point being explained, explaining it back incorrectly and overall doing my level best to cause increased blood pressure, while actually appearing to be truly interested in understanding the drivel being explained to me.
What has astounded me was both the amount of time that they’ll waste in trying to get through to this perceived dullard and that none yet have had a stroke during the entire period of entertainment.
Amusingly, everyone about that is overhearing and is aware and oriented x3 figures out early on that I’m toying with the speaker, who remains delightfully unaware of that face – despite in some cases, open laughter bursting out all around him.
Wheaton’s law doesn’t apply in these cases, for some times, one really just has to be a dick.
Of course, if the speaker actually did have a CVA or MI, this retired military medic will happily call 911 for him.
Even if every Gator was a Bernie supporter, it wouldn’t therefore follow that Bernie supporters – or even Bernie Bros – are indistinguishable from the Alt-Right or the Gator crowd, as was initially suggested.
X group also belongs to Y group, therefore X and Y are functionally indistinguishable is a really poor argument.
There are plenty of Bernie or Bust people who despite being incorrect as far as I’m concerned, are nonetheless ideologically far from the alt-right or the Gators.
Has this guy met the alt right? They’re indistinguishable from one another. Sure, they have their ideological conflicts, like how the white nationalists don’t like the likes of Roosh, because they’re not white, and GGers “lean left, actually” which I think means they lean toward the left of 4chan’s overton window, so ever so slightly left of Goebbels, but aside from that there’s nothing that distinguishes them. If you’re talking to a feminist, you burble on about “muh suggy knees,” if you’re talking to BLM people, it’s all about “we wuz kangs,” go with weird conspiracy theories and multiple brackets if you’re talking about Jewish people, and everyone gets “ahurr durr, triggered.” They’re devoid of intellectual content. Sure, us SJWs might have our jargony things, but there are actually words around the jargon, and there are ideas being presented. The alt right stuff’s just dribble.
I wouldn’t mind their weird posturing if a single one of them bothered to understand what it is they disagree with, but they don’t. A while back, probably a year or two now, an alt-righter added me on steam and got into the habit of interrupting my gaming sessions with graphs that “prove” the inherent inferiority of Africans and the like. One time, he showed me a flow chart detailing all the logical consequences of calling yourself a progressive. Most of it was actually pretty reasonable – you have to support feminism, racial equality, economic equality, etc. – to the point where I think it was probably a modification of something produced by someone who understood progressive ideas. It did have two interesting logical consequences, though – apparently you have to accept paedophilia and bestiality. Why? Among other reasons (I almost wish I still had that chart, because it was kind of hilarious) because you can just assume consent, and then it’s fine. So for all that he could through a halfway convincing flowchart together, he had no understanding of a simple concept like consent, and the only way that’s possible is if you never investigate it or actively resist understanding.
More recently, a guy on twitter was complaining about the term, ‘toxic masculinity.’ I asked him to define it for me:
“Okay, I consider it a term used to discredit masculinity and men who are typically stronger than some other men”
I mean… that’s not even a definition. They’re always acting as if they’re the true intellectuals and skeptics of the world, but they’re totally incurious.
Apologies if this double posts… I’m not sure if there’s a filtered word in here, or if something just went wrong with posting my comment.
Has this guy met the alt right? They’re indistinguishable from one another. Sure, they have their ideological conflicts, like how the white nationalists don’t like the likes of Roosh, because they’re not white, and GGers “lean left, actually” which I think means they lean toward the left of 4chan’s overton window, so ever so slightly left of Goebbels, but aside from that there’s nothing that distinguishes them. If you’re talking to a feminist, you burble on about “muh suggy knees,” if you’re talking to BLM people, it’s all about “we wuz kangs,” go with weird conspiracy theories and multiple brackets if you’re talking about Jewish people, and everyone gets “ahurr durr, triggered.” They’re devoid of intellectual content. Sure, us SJWs might have our jargony things, but there are actually words around the jargon, and there are ideas being presented. The alt right stuff’s just dribble.
I wouldn’t mind their weird posturing if a single one of them bothered to understand what it is they disagree with, but they don’t. A while back, probably a year or two now, an alt-righter added me on steam and got into the habit of interrupting my gaming sessions with graphs that “prove” the inherent inferiority of Africans and the like. One time, he showed me a flow chart detailing all the logical consequences of calling yourself a progressive. Most of it was actually pretty reasonable – you have to support feminism, racial equality, economic equality, etc. – to the point where I think it was probably a modification of something produced by someone who understood progressive ideas. It did have two interesting logical consequences, though – apparently you have to accept paedophilia and bestiality. Why? Among other reasons (I almost wish I still had that chart, because it was kind of hilarious) because you can just assume consent, and then it’s fine. So for all that he could through a halfway convincing flowchart together, he had no understanding of a simple concept like consent, and the only way that’s possible is if you never investigate it or actively resist understanding.
More recently, a guy on twitter was complaining about the term, ‘toxic masculinity.’ I asked him to define it for me:
“Okay, I consider it a term used to discredit masculinity and men who are typically stronger than some other men”
I mean… that’s not even a definition. They’re always acting as if they’re the true intellectuals and skeptics of the world, but they’re totally incurious.
Has this guy met the alt right? They’re indistinguishable from one another. Sure, they have their ideological conflicts, like how the white nationalists don’t like the likes of [Internet rapist whose name I think is filtered], because they’re not white, and GGers “lean left, actually” which I think means they lean toward the left of 4chan’s overton window, so ever so slightly left of Goebbels, but aside from that there’s nothing that distinguishes them. If you’re talking to a feminist, you burble on about “muh suggy knees,” if you’re talking to BLM people, it’s all about “we wuz kangs,” go with weird conspiracy theories and multiple brackets if you’re talking about Jewish people, and everyone gets “ahurr durr, triggered.” They’re devoid of intellectual content. Sure, us SJWs might have our jargony things, but there are actually words around the jargon, and there are ideas being presented. The alt right stuff’s just dribble.
I wouldn’t mind their weird posturing if a single one of them bothered to understand what it is they disagree with, but they don’t. A while back, probably a year or two now, an alt-righter added me on steam and got into the habit of interrupting my gaming sessions with graphs that “prove” the inherent inferiority of Africans and the like. One time, he showed me a flow chart detailing all the logical consequences of calling yourself a progressive. Most of it was actually pretty reasonable – you have to support feminism, racial equality, economic equality, etc. – to the point where I think it was probably a modification of something produced by someone who understood progressive ideas. It did have two interesting logical consequences, though – apparently you have to accept paedophilia and bestiality. Why? Among other reasons (I almost wish I still had that chart, because it was kind of hilarious) because you can just assume consent, and then it’s fine. So for all that he could through a halfway convincing flowchart together, he had no understanding of a simple concept like consent, and the only way that’s possible is if you never investigate it or actively resist understanding.
More recently, a guy on twitter was complaining about the term, ‘toxic masculinity.’ I asked him to define it for me:
“Okay, I consider it a term used to discredit masculinity and men who are typically stronger than some other men”
I mean… that’s not even a definition. They’re always acting as if they’re the true intellectuals and skeptics of the world, but they’re totally incurious.
@Noyd
Given that I am a minority absolutely not. I just get queasy with how democrats devalue negative liberty.
75% of my politics are identical to most people on the board. I just tend to speak up only when there’s a disagreement.
TLDR: I’m voting for Clinton probably and I’m actively involved in social justice work.
Evil Cannot Comprehend Good.
Is worthless, unemployable, entitled, sack of shit a term. Because that pretty much sums up the alt-right.
@A. Noyd,
Oh, that’s for when the conversation’s quite advanced. For, that reveals my contempt too easily for early on.
I restate their points, paraphrasing them 180 degrees out of phase with what they were trying to impart, while appearing confused.
I can milk that routine for a minimum of twenty minutes, gauging the efficacy of said torture by the purple coloration of their face. If I judge my density correctly, it can be markedly purple and veins stand out prominently, even arteries pulsing rapidly can be observed.
Of course, prodding with correct assessments (in their view), as they expound on specific points, then entirely getting it entirely wrong.
@35 Athywren
You hit it right on the head, there. And it’s not just the alt-right, it’s the more conventional right-wing as well. Find their comments on anything they don’t like on the internet, and they’re like interchangeable sheep bawwing the same noises like “Obamaphones!” and “it’s funny how liberals don’t care about murdering babies” (typically beneath an article about a right-wing Christian murdering actual people). So much that you can read through 10 different internet trolls without realizing they’re not the same person.
These “free-thinking individualists” seem incapable of having a thought that strays from their dictated central narrative, I suppose because reality can be interpreted and experienced millions of different ways particular to each individual’s personality, whereas bullshit lies can only be repeated.
I wish I were a more famous and powerful person so I could get a louder magaphone to get people to stop using alt-right as a term since it benefits shitty people looking to rebrand.
zenlike@6: “No, they see themselves as better than the normies”
They’re Übernormies!
(Given their predelictions, I’m not going to do a Google search for either that or the version without an umlaut, for fear of what I might find.)
Honestly, the normies thing irritates me. Mostly because it’s yet another instance of awful bigots appropriating something which could happily be used by good, honest folk and making it “theirs.”
much like “PC” which had a good, pleasant life as a sardonic jab between well meaning decent folk pointing out their fellow travelers are perhaps straying a bit into an ideological echo chamber, before right wing assholes appropriated it to simply mean “being polite to people,” “normies” was a great, self-depreciating term for an in-group to at once acknowledge the outgroup: You know who doesn’t care about obsessive attempts to shave a half-button press and 4 seconds off your speed run of Mario64? normal people. Normies. But within our fan-community, we can acknowledge and respect that effort you put in.
And now it’s just “people who aren’t racist-misogynists.”
great.
@41, williamgeorge,
I’ll say. The so-called “alt-right” is just the garden-variety right. They’re right-wingers who have rejected the right’s leadership’s ongoing attempts of whitewashing, who dropped the masquerade and say out loud what everyone of them thinks. The term “alt-right” is used by the right’s (current) leaders to brand them as an adjacent, but fundamentally different school of thought.
KG wrote:
Hell, Trump has said words of support for Sanders, too. However, I seriously doubt Carl or any of the rest actually care for his policies and positions (or could name any of them). Sanders is just a useful weapon to use against Clinton for these people. Given GamerGate’s animus for women, it’s probably reasonable to think he serves a similar purpose in that crowd.
I’m not sure I’d bother with trying to argue with Stacy, though. Practically all their posts seem to be of the drive-by variety.