I just have to say that I totally despise the “e-begging” nonsense: not the requests for donations, but all the assholes who come squirming out of the woodwork to sneer at people who have financial difficulties, who make pleas for donations to support the work you are reading, who think it is somehow a mark of inferiority that someone does not have a prestigious job to support the leisure activity of writing, and are offended that they’re asked to maybe, voluntarily, donate a small sum to an author who’s having a hard time making ends meet.
Ultimately, the complaints are rooted in classism and bigotry. I’m in the odd position of being financially rock-solid — not rich by any means, but economically stable, with good health insurance to protect me from catastrophe, which, come to think of it, does mean I’m wealthy — yet here I am promoting people who are the less widely heard voices in freethought, and they generally have less robust incomes than I do. There is a big gay and transgender pay gap, and an even wider pay gap for racial minorities, and yet, when someone with less dares to hold out a hand and ask for some help, the hecklers all come to mock me, which is just plain weird. It’s as if they not only scorn the underprivileged, but they despise them so much they don’t want to even talk to the person, but instead come to spit in the face of the old white man, because he’s the one with authority.
The first time this happened, years ago, I was so discombobulated that I actually asked the asshole what he was complaining about; I said that I whole-heartedly supported people who asked for voluntary donations, and that those of us who could, should be chipping in to promote talent. Apparently, that was the problem: that I was enabling “freeloaders”, so I was responsible for the epidemic of begging that was annoying him.
Apparently, too, writing is something people should do for free, because hey, anyone can do it. It’s strange how so few authors get paid what they’re worth, then.
Well, fuck that.
Also, have you noticed all the outrage directed at Anita Sarkeesian because she’s held wildly successful fundraisers? These are donations by people who appreciate the fact that she promotes an important and interesting perspective, and they freely give to support her work, and this stirs up intense resentment among certain other kinds of people…who say nothing about the “e-begging” of Thunderf00t or Sargon of Akkad, which, apparently is something fundamentally different and isn’t even called “e-begging”.
And, as a mentioned, I get to be the recipient of all these bullying complaints about people who ask for a few dollars to support their writing. All that means, of course, is that I get to witness first hand how these whiners react to people of color, or gay or transgender people, reminding them of their privilege. I also get to be dumbfounded at my privilege, which is to be treated as the master who is supposed to keep all the little people in line.
The latest case: Tony is trying to make ends meet. So I get to hear all these weirdly inappropriate insults because, obviously, I have something to do with allowing these “e-beggars” to pollute their internet (I also get supportive suggestions, so it’s not as if the internet is entirely a cesspit). It’s weird because Tony is on a different network, I’ve never met him, and he doesn’t even like me very much, but because I’m the Emperor of all things SJW within atheism, I’m responsible. They have such a blithely authoritarian perspective. Note also: these are people who are so ravingly anti-black, anti-gay, and anti-SJW that the only reason they can be reading Tony’s blog is to metaphorically spit on it, and they’re complaining about a donation request that won’t take a penny out of their pocket.
So I’m going to come out and say it: if you want to see a greater diversity of ideas on the internet, if you want to promote greater equality, and if you’ve got the financial ability to do so, you should seek out people other than us noisy old white cis-het men, and put your money where your mouth is. If you like Tony’s writing, give him a little help. If you want to hear more from other than the usual suspects with the big bullhorns, look around, explore, and read what they write…and if they have a “donations” button, click on it. It’s good for everyone.
And now when the jerks come complaining to me that I’m enabling freeloaders
, I’ll be able to say that yes, I try to enable writers, but you’re mistaken. My job is to shut down assholes, goodbye.
Seems to me the real freeloaders are networks like the Huffington Post that expect writers to work for free. The donation model is awful for many of the same reasons as the tipping model, but attacking people who are trying to survive is a vile response.
Libertarianism is worse than crack
PZ
Since you are so powerful…
The first plane was late by 3/4 of an hour, now my plane will be late by about an hour and a half.
Can you do something about that, please?
Thanks for the signal boosting PZ.
One correction though:
The part in bold is not true :)
qwints @1:
I agree. I have a FB friend who recently mentioned that he was going to write for the HuffPo and he seemed really excited. I liked his post and said congrats, but in the back of my mind I was thinking that it was a shame he’s not likely going to get paid for his writing.
I can do something about that! I can publicly abuse your airline.
Does that help?
I would happily donate to Tony and to FreeThoughtBlogs, but I always stumble when I run into PayPal. That’s partly because I have never used PayPal, so I’m not sure where to begin. It’s also because I don’t trust PayPal a lot. We had a phishing scare a few years ago from PayPal.
Regarding the HuffPo, it’s seems common knowledge that they exploit writers. Your reward is the exposure they’re giving you. Of course, as a friend once said about the music business equivalent, you can die from exposure.
In the same vein, I’ve sometimes wondered about how AlterNet treats its contributors.
@robro – Technically speaking, your phishing scare probably wasn’t from PayPal, but someone trying to trick you into thinking they were PayPal. That’s how a lot of phishing scams work, by impersonating someone they hope you trust. But it doesn’t make sense to blame the entity being impersonated for that.
I have just realized that everyone I donate to on Patreon are “white cis-het men”. As far as I know, anyway.
I have got to find some funny female authors/cartoonists.
Our Squidly Overlord:
If anyone can do it, why is there so much badly spelled, punctuated, worded, and composed shit infesting the Intarweebz?
–
Because requesting donations is so distasteful to these complainers, can we assume that they are in favor of full 100% public funding of all political campaigns? Not just the Presidential race at a higher level that nobody would turn down? But full funding for every candidate for Congress, or for city council or school board? This is necessary if we are to stop the scourge of requesting of donations.
And that funding needs to come from tax increases, so that we aren’t getting begged for funding when we do tax returns. And we need higher taxes to do more medical and scientific research, and for gun control an d the planetary society? I get begged for money to fund health care for women’s choices too, so we need tax increases to pay for all that.
Only by implementing all of this can we be free of the fundraising that bothers the complainers. I need to tour Scandinavia more to find out if there are any other causes or reforms there where funding is requested. This must be the new motto of such complainers: pre-emptively end all funding requests by satisfying them from raised taxes. I guess we can thank the complainers for making their position so clear and consistent.
One more thing.
Tony’s requests will easily go away and never be heard from again once we implement a guaranteed living income stipend to everyone. We can fund it out of what we spent on wars etc. so once Tony and his kind (creative people) are free to write without worrying about income, then I will be free of the reading of the requests for donations. Then I will have time to watch some of the DVDs and read some books I bought from Tony and other bloggers already.
To make it simple, everyone should be given about $45000 per year, but the first $50,000 per year of income should be tax-free. If we bring back the Eisenhower tax brackets for top earners as we had in the booming 1950s, we can even make it revenue-neutral in a progressive way. Plug the loopholes. Let the selfish rich move to Somalia if they want.
Duth Olec: I don’t know your tastes, but here are some names to maybe start with:
Coelasquid (Kelly Turnbull): Cartoonist. Has funny (Manly Guys Doing Manly Things) and dramatic (Platinum Black) works.
Ursula Vernon a.k.a T. Kingfisher: Author and cartoonist. Funny and dramatic freely interleaved.
Shaenon Garrity: Cartoonist. All funny all the time. Current work is Skin Horse.
Dylan Meconis: Cartoonist. Current work is a DRAMA BOMB (Family Man), previous comic (Bite Me) was screamingly funny.
Excuse me, I do mean, “Teh Intarweebz”.
–
It’s raining outside and I’ve got a headache.
Can you do something about that too PZ?
I can’t speak for poopyhead, but try this: Remove the umbrella from your ear.
happyrabo — Yes, I know, but somehow the phishers were working it through my wife’s PayPal account. Had another scare recently trying to get Über customer support to validate a coupon.
Huh. I guess idiots assuming you are The White Man in Charge of all of atheism is the flipside of the all-too-common experience of the one woman in a room full of professional workers who visitors will always assume is the receptionist.
@blf #15:
Hallelujah! I’m cured. Praise the Lord!
have you noticed all the outrage directed at Anita Sarkeesian because she’s held wildly successful fundraisers?
And strangely nobody seems to be complaining that Chris Roberts held wildly successful fundraisers for the Star Citizen MMO, and they haven’t even shipped a fraction of what they said they’d be shipping. Whereas lots of screeching and nattering about Sarkeesian maybe raising so much money that she, you know did more with it. Perish the thought! Of course gaming and educational videos aren’t connected at all, except at the population that is playing the one and complaining about the other.
@Duth Olec#9 – there’s always Oglaf.
Robro@#7:
We had a phishing scare a few years ago from PayPal.
It absolutely certainly had nothing to do with PayPal. Scammers forge emails to appear to come from a reputable source. I deal regularly with IT people at organizations that try to figure out how to strengthen their communications policies to prevent them from being blamed for scammers’ actions. A fairly typical response is for an organization to publish communications guidelines, e.g.: “You will never get an email from us asking for your password” and “Here is a link you can follow to see all the customer emails we have sent, to verify if one is actually from us”
Paypal’s email security page is here: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/suspicious-activity
The local Murdoch rag had an article yesterday about ‘leftist’ GoFundme campaign scams. The small amount I saw seemed to imply that all gofundme campaigns were scams.
It’s a bit off topic, but who is Sargon of Akkad in the original post? My cat is named Sargon of Akkad, I gave him that name because eh it’s an interesting historical figure that we know little about. PZ seems to be referring to some other blogger or columnist? I found a channel on YouTube, should I even bother to watch, since he was mentioned alongside Thunderf00t? Just a quick hint please?
It has not been lost on me, or I suspect most commentators here, that the people who complain about bloggers here at FTB, Anita Sarkeesian or Ophelia Benson raising money through funding requests, advertising or Patreon seem to be quite sanguine about the likes of Thunderf00t raising very significant amounts of money doing exactly the same thing. Indeed some of the complainers do exactly the same thing.
If only there were words that described such behaviour…
I’d shift Ophelia to the Thunderfoot side of the equation, but yeah.
Also, “hypocrisy?”
good to know
Well, I do think she fits better with the whole “ex FTBlogger with opinions that go against the group’s values” group than the “reasonably nice person with beliefs that are more in line with our general ethos” group.
ah
I see
So, where might I find this latest round of whining? A youtube video hopefully, so that I may watch and be fascinated/horrified/entertained for a few minutes.
Reminds me of the controversy about Greta Christina’s shoes. Some people get extremely indignant about her purchase of fancy shoes with donation money. She posted about it
Nobody took her up on that.
GC also noted Stephanie Zvan and her commenters on this issue:
A pair of well-made comfortable shoes that will last for years, bought largely to be worn in professional settings, is not an extravagant expenditure.
Many people who donated said specifically that they wanted me to use some of the money in fun ways that would give me pleasure.
In any case, when you donate money to someone, you don’t get to dictate how they spend it.
When men spend money on clothing, it’s seen as a legitimate expense; when women spend money on clothing, it’s seen as frivolous fashion.
I have several links on this controversy, but I’m afraid of getting this post spamfiltered by posting them. I’m willing to post them if requested, however.
Vivec @ #s 25 & 27: I’d shift Ophelia to the Thunderfoot side of the equation … I do think she fits better with the whole “ex FTBlogger with opinions that go against the group’s values” group …
Because of course all individuals not In with the Cool Kids® belong in the Other category on the opposite side of the equation – sorta like how all the sinners and heretics are going to hell, y’know. It’s all binary … just like gender!
chigau – Pls go to Benson’s blog and decide for yourself, if you actually want to bother having an opinion about it.
Yeah, and how dare poor people own a cell phone.
Freeloaders? I think of them more as buskers. They entertain (or inform) me, and I drop a few bucks in the hat now and then.
Pierce R. Butler #31
Pls provide a link to something that makes yr point.
so I can bother having an opinion
and PZ
Leave my airlines alone!!!
I had been following Ophelia for the last year or so on Facebook, and sadly I have to agree with this assessment. Her posting behavior and commentary has changed noticeably… especially after the Orbit was launched.
I finally stopped following her about 2 months ago.
Well, yeah. If we’re going to define ourselves by opposition to forms oppression like islamiphobia and transphobia, I’d say it’s a given that islamiphobic transphobes are in the out-group, also by definition.
I had been following Ophelia for the last year or so on Facebook, and sadly I have to agree with others noting her behavior has and commentary has changed noticeably… especially after the Orbit was launched. Half of her posts were focused on how much she hated various people on the Orbit, and anyone who supported them.
I finally stopped following her about 2 months ago.
(there likely will be essentially a dupe of my last post because t-foot still causes automod)
Really.
I have been here and I have been paying attention.
Actually, I have been paying attention for 61.3 years.
sadly
@23 Pierre Le Fou-
His real name is Carl Benjamin. He’s another YouTube “dictionary atheist” like Phil Mason and T. Kincaid. He, like they, is so impressed with his own (self-reported) rational mind that him frequently using it to rationalize his deep-seated anger towards uppity women means that his anger towards women is, obviously, rational.
Your cat is probably more self aware of it’s shortcomings as a person.
Rational Wiki has some very good takedowns of all of these guys so it may be worth a looksee.
chigau @ # 34 – Still looking for somebody to do all your reading and thinking for you? Shop around – you may find an even better Thought Leader™ than Vivec!
Vivec @ # 37: If we’re going to define ourselves by opposition to forms oppression like islamiphobia and transphobia…
Somehow I don’t feel myself a part of the “we” to whom you refer. Try to imagine how long this will keep me awake tonight.
Ichthyic @ # 38 – Guess what: though we work from different perspectives here (I avoid Facebook as much as possible, but lurk Butterfiles and Wheels intermittently), I somewhat agree with you. The whole witchhunt did Benson some real damage, and now she seems to react much more out of pain than from the thoughtful analyses she formerly did frequently and well. Take a bow, purists!
indeed!
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/TheAmazingAtheist
and irony of irony… he once did a video… railing on racists!
pretty clear he has gone the route that he think is most profitable since.
Social Justice-minded Atheism and Skepticism seems to be the general thrust of FTB, is it not? It certainly seems to be the common trait between the various blogs. I would assert that an opposition to oppression and bigotry is rather inherent to the concept of Social Justice.
Also, I remain thoroughly unbothered by how upset a TERF feels about the fact that other people don’t like her. I don’t spend much time weeping about Trump or Tfoot, so I fail to see why I should care about another douchey bigot’s upset.
Pierce R. Butler #42
Since I don’t really grok what you are driveling on about, I’m going to go with
Bless your heart.
@#46, chigau
He goes into defensive mode any time someone mentions Benson without praising her abrupt loss of depth.
Marcus @18, there’s actually a ton of criticism towards Roberts coming from Something Awful and the Alt Right. Google Smart, Derek.
A prime example of the counterproductivity of using absolutes as a basis of judgement. Once designated TERF, shut off all dialogue with the irredeemable Other.
Why would I engage with someone that time and again seems willing to espouse and cosign bigotry aimed towards me? I lack the spoons and the interest to engage with her.
Either way, it’s not like I’m really doing anything against her – as of yet, I just voiced my dislike towards her, and said dislike is unlikely to change until she demonstrates she’s no longer going to say transphobic things.
Vivec, voicing your dislike towards someone is doing something against them.
(It’s fair enough to do so, but you should not be in denial about it)
Fair enough, what I meant is that I’m not seeking for there to be any actual actions taken towards her. I mean, I’d prefer she not be a bigot, but my main thing was just a quibble about her, in my view, having more in common with Tfoot than Greta or Anita.
Thanks, Vivec. Respect.
Amazing.
Indeed so. Although I would perfectly be willing to slide the others a little more in Tfoot’s direction, if there was some demonstration of consistent bigoted behavior from Greta or Anita.
#23, Pierre Le Fou:
Here’s a nice audiovisual introduction to the most Rational(TM) Thought Leader(C) of Youtube MRAtheism.
#55
No no, you didn’t just say OB has some similarity to tfoot and co., you said she had more with them than with Greta. That’s just silly.
My strategy for figuring out who the leeches are is to look for those who profit without doing any of the actual, real work. Funny how it always seems to be the people at the top of the pile. The leeches also seem to project an awful lot when those enabling their vaunted lifestyles want a couple of extra crumbs.
While Huffington Post is a fine example pretty much anyone who works for a corporation could probably make the same case if different in degree (I’m personally fairly privileged and situated a lot like PZ–not in academia, but otherwise).
Anyway, thanks for the reminder to spread some of what I’ve been given. I sent some money Tony’s way and I’ll try to remember to do what I can for others in the future. I forget sometimes.
Siobhan @ # 47: He goes into defensive mode any time someone mentions Benson without praising her abrupt loss of depth.
He speaks up against gratuitous – well, can you see any justification here? – slurs against a victim of strident self-righteousness, on the principle of “the standard you walk past …”
Thank you to all the generous people who donated. I not only have rent taken care of, but I can pay for my cellphone bill this month and even buy the clothes that I need for the new job that I’m starting next Saturday. And thanks again for signal boosting PZ!
I do love the smell of tribalism in the morning. It smells like…
eh, it smells like the same old shit around here. (with a framiliar whiff of rotten fish)
Nuance is dead.
Long live the authoritarian Us. But above all, death to Them!
(You know, there’s actually a third category. There’s the glorious Oll-Korrect Us, of course, and the Horrible Evil Them. But and then there’s the Othered. Know what I mean, chigau?)
We should all hold hands. All of us: Atheists who care about their fellow human beings and the spittle-flecked raging atheists who have read too much Rand and have “logicked” their bigotries into Patreon profitability. And once we’re all singing the latest Beyonce joint together (It’s okay, she’s one of the “good ones” so the YouTube generals should like her) maybe Chas will finally gain the respect their personality is constantly failing to get for them
Sven
You are always a breath of fresh air.
Have a nice day.