Trump goes full Nazi. Never go full Nazi.
So he endorses religious registration, watch lists, surveillance on mosques, and, the shit icing on the big cake made of poop, torture.
We have to be strong,the candidate insisted.You know, they don’t use waterboarding over there, they use chopping off people’s heads, they use drowning people.
I would bring it back, I think waterboarding is peanuts compared to what they do to us,he opined.I would absolutely bring back interrogation and strong interrogation.
And he’s got crowds cheering for that.
If only Godwin’s Law could be applied in real life.
“Sorry, Mr. Trump, but bragging how much you love Nazi ideology disqualifies you from ever speaking in public again.”
Cross-posted from the Moments of Political Madness thread.
Washington Post link
The black man was a Black Lives Matter activist, Mercutio Southall Jr.
About the incident, Donald Trump said,
Because apparently Trump’s Golden Rule is “Do unto others before they do unto you.” The idea that maybe we shouldn’t waterboard because we are good people and good people don’t torture other people (even people who would torture or kill us) seems alien to Donald Trump and his supporters.
Shit, he isn’t even trying to hide it anymore.
And notice the eerie quiet coming from the rest of the clown car. Dark days ahead, folks.
What “they” are doing to “us”? What is that exactly? Given that focus is primarily stomping on Muslims, I’m not sure where my sense of oppression should lie…
Caine: Maybe Trump is just getting his Bad Guys mixed up and thinks the US are fighting ISIS directly. Because who can keep all those scary Islams (as my granddad once called them) straight, right?
The Grauniad’s report on teh trum-prat’s intent to commit torture and other crimes adds another bit of delusion I don’t recall ever hearing before (Trump and Carson back use of waterboarding in fight against Isis):
Not even wrong.
He’s now very much following the scripts of McCarthy and kooks, with unbelievable amounts of paranoia, delusion, obvious lies, obliviousness, and uncontrolled hatred.
Someone, somewhere has to take Trump seriously enough to debate, defeat and humiliate him — and 27% of the American voting-age public will still think Trump won.
petesh@8, I’m not thinking a “debate” so much as an Edward R Murrow–style takedown of McCarthy.
yeah, waterboarding doesn’t actually kill anybody, while all Muslims will kill anybody not Muslim, so Trumpster is being lenient, not extremist. oh no, not at all. To him, waterboarding is essentially a slap-on-the-wrist, not full spanking. so why not? [*duh* *duh* *duhm* drumroll]
I normally hate Nazi-analogies, but we can’t shy away from them when they’re so obviously appropriate. Trump is the scariest presidential candidate in the US in a long time.
I am really worried in last two years that third world war is looming over the horizon.
Charly,
How much war does it take to make something a world war? Because I think we’ve been at one for a while now, we’re just in denial.
Trump only seems like a Nazi due to mis-translations. His speeches and statements all sound much more reasonable in the original German.
Humanity has been at war with the rich parasites and their lackeys since we invented the dynastic transmission of wealth.
Beatrice #13
Statistically speaking, it takes 3% of the entire human population. At the very least. Given the technological advances since then, I’d say something like 50% of all humans dead.
Let’s not go overboard. The wars in the Middle East aren’t WW3, as bad as the current news cycle is, we’re still living in the most peaceful time in human history (relative to total population) and many parameters show a continuous improvement in the average quality of life.
while we have been in a state of war around the world for a very long time with some spot or other heating up and them cooling down for a while without anything like real world peace since the 40’s we have not been actively engaged in “total war” since 1945. I think that that is what is meant when WW III is spoken of it is a some what small distinction to the dead however.
Trump is saying out loud what the republican party has come to support for a long time now. It is the direct result of their southern strategy, when they decided for electoral reasons to court the racist white southerners and for go the principles of the Party of Lincoln.
uncle frogy
AlexanderZ,
You’re right about going overboard, there’s enough panic in Europe as it is.
I was going by the number of countries involved in various interconnected wars for years.
But all it takes is one fascist taking over in a major western power and using the firepower modern technology provides to slaughter into submission everyone who doesn’t kowtow to reverse all of the progress done.
@AlexanderZ #16
Yes, we live in the most peacefull time in human history. But there are enough people who are hell bent on changing that. And with global warming, increasing overpopulation and stratification of societies – which all eads to stress – all it takes is one asshole drunk with power and the disaster is made.
For example Putin already does his best to start second cold war. If he gets equaly egomaniacal and stupid counterpart in US, it will start again. And once there is that tension back, thinks can get hot very quickly.
Problems in middle east and ukraine are only convenient bogeymen for these asholes to grab and hold power.
Not being a local, I can’t fathom how any of the Rep candidates could ever win against a Sanders or Clinton.
When they do, I’ll still be in denial.
Terrorism in the USA … from extremist rightwing white guys:
Link
Neither one of the perps has been waterboarded.
In a fair fight? They can’t win.
But it’s not a fair fight when half the political class is hellbent on rigging elections through gerrymandering and voters suppressions.
Does this mean we can waterboard white supremacists now? Or does this only apply to brown people? #sarcasm
Donald Trump does not know how to vet his sources. He believes whatever rightwing propaganda comes his way and never looks any further. This habit accounts for his belief that waterboarding is an effective way to gain intelligence, and for his belief that Mexican immigrants are rapists. “Somebody is doing the raping,” he says.
He also believes, and disseminates, inaccurate and racist crime statistics.
Think Progress link.
Trump’s belief in faux statistics is just one of the excuses he uses for saying that it is okay to show disrespect (even to the point of physical violence) to Black Lives Matter activists.
what
Charly:
Yeah. A long time ago fear of nuclear war has been creeping back over me, and I had been optimistic enough to think I wouldn’t ever feel that again. So much for that.
Anton Mates @ 26:
I had the exact same reaction. It’s not just the fear-mongering and the bloodlust for war, war, war – it’s those things in combination with genuine stupidity, which makes it all the more fucking terrifying.
And he’s got crowds cheering for that.
It’s in America – so no surprises there.
I want to make something clear – my comment was merely a side note, not an excuse to go easy on The Donald. Of course he shouldn’t be allowed to any position of power, and the only reason I hesitate to call him a Nazi is because actual Nazi leaders have a semi-coherent ideology rather than a bestial loathing of anyone he considers his inferior.
___
Caine #27
Well. In that case you’re lucky you don’t watch Soloviev’s show, because some people on Russia’s most popular talk show (broadcast on its leading channel) are optimistic about winning the Second Cold War.
@#29, AlexanderZ:
I’m not all that alarmed about whether they win the Second Cold War. I’m worried that somewhere along the way we’ll get another Hot War, in which case everyone loses. All Cold War victories are temporary anyway.
I followed Trump on twitter before his presidential run. And, of course, I heard him on Howard. I don’t recall any foreshadowing of this behavior. It feels more like performance art than a set of sincerely held beliefs. He’s playing a guy who’s running for the Republican nomination. If Andy Kaufman would have run for President, it would probably look a lot like this campaign.
http://hmd.org.uk/content/05101938-german-jews-have-their-passports-marked-letter-j
How far back do you want your foreshadowing? The first NY Times story about him, in 1973, was about him being investigated for race discrimination in apartment rentals. https://twitter.com/justinjm1/status/668582510180352000
I don’t know if he sincerely wants to be president, let alone whether he has thought about the less exciting parts of the job, but the racism is no act.
In response to Fuckabee’s fearmongering analogy of refugees being a 5lb bag of peanuts with 10 poison peanuts. No one has responded with there may also be 10 5carat diamonds in there.
Clearly Fuckabee thinks [if that’s what he appears to be doing] that diamonds are … ugh… lets step out of that simile.
Of the entire set of >10k refugees, a non-zero number of them will be productive contributors to this society. Much more probably than an infinitesimal number of terrorists. To exaggerate: some of those refugees could be essentially Einstein, or Edison, or Elon Musk, etc. Would it really be productive to exclude them for being refugees?
Clearly, Fuckabee thinks [sic] that geniuses are an inexhaustible resource from the domestic population, any more from the refugee population would be excess.
tldr:
refugee admission advocates gotta also mention the risk of losing the good people in the refugee population when refusing to admit them, rather than trying to note how small the risk of danger there is from admission. When exclusion advocates talk about the risk of danger, respond with the risk of losing advantages by accepting exclusion policies.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
also:
refugees are not terrorists trying to infiltrate, they are people fleeing terrorists and are more likely to be assets against terrorists. Don’t we want to recruit assets?
at worst: of 10 refugees = 1 terrorist + 4 assets + 5 neutrals.
Repeat: WORST case scenario, not Typical.
Refusing refugee entry is essentially shooting ourselves in our foot (metaphorically).
re 34:
I’m sure they’ll say that while the refugees may not be infiltrating terrorists, they are terrorist targets (that’s why they’re fleeing. qed), so why welcome targets and risk being collateral damage?
ugh.
I can’t.
only words left to me is “empathy, and compassion, are better than fear, no matter how (hypothetically) high the risk”
I don’t think Trump is going to win. Not the nomination and certainly not the general election. However, the fact that he could get so far is fucking scary. At a time when the US economy is reasonably good and the US is under no particular threat*, that 25% of Republican voters (presumably about 50% of the voting population) would go for an out and out fascist…what’s going to happen when the country is actually stressed?
*Yeah, yeah, terrorism, ISIS, etc. There’s always some level of threat. It’s not really that big a deal as a threat to the country. As a threat to individuals, sure, but not to the country as a whole.
Or their kids could be Steve Jobs. Not an exaggeration: Jobs was the child of a Syrian immigrant. Don’t know if he was a refugee per se or not.
Another point is that some of the refugees are fleeing because they don’t want to be “drafted” by Assad or DAESH. Keeping them away from same draws down the forces of all combatants and makes it harder for them to continue fighting. Returning the refugees to lands that they control is effectively providing them with materials for continuing to make war. Why do all these Republicans want to give the radicals more ability to make war, including against us?
Actually, having asked that last rhetorical question, I wonder if that isn’t what they want: Give the terrorists just enough power to keep people in the US scared–and willing to give away their rights for “safety”.
I do not think there sis an awful lot of deep thinking going on either the would be candidates nor their target voters. It is very true that what they are proposing are just what IS wants and the effects are just what has been outlined here.
They only have a mythological understanding of reality and their own biases and ignorance to go on and their greed for power drive them so that any half completed thought is enough to give them enough to take us all over the fucking cliff.
uncle frogy
Surely this will end any chance he had of winning…? Right? Right?
@39: No, it won’t. Anyone who would not support Trump because of this either already didn’t support him or is too oblivious to notice that he said anything. However, he won’t win because the majority of the US population knows that he’s evil and don’t want what he’s selling. I hope.
I followed Trump on twitter before his presidential run. And, of course, I heard him on Howard. I don’t recall any foreshadowing of this behavior. It feels more like performance art than a set of sincerely held beliefs.
Yeah, it could be performance art. Trump wants more value for his name, and property. And if he gets to be the president, he dreams of giving himself a big tax reduction.
But I don’t think he will stay in the race until the end. Remember that until now, he has not spent much money on his campaign. The media has been doing his advertisement for free. Once things get to be more expensive, he will bail out.
But yeah, what is scary is that he has figured out the market for American fascism. Next guy will just run with it.
lotharloo@41,
People have been saying he’s not serious, he’ll never actually run, he’ll soon drop out, his poll numbers will fall, he can’t possibly win the nomination, or if he does, be elected… since before he was in. I don’t know how they think they know this. The guy has a planetary-sized ego and vast amounts of money, and so far has defied all attempts by the Republican establishment to bring him down. Why shouldn’t he think both that he can win, and that he’d make a great President? I think the odds are still against him, but far less likely events have happened many times.
I’m sorry, but my first thought on reading this was, “Can we swap Trump out for Marvin from Hitchhiker’s Guide? Marvin has a brain the size of a planet instead of an ego the size of a planet and would make a much better president than Trump, though he wouldn’t enjoy it.”
Il Douche.
re 41, 42, et al:
I’ll bet that Trump is just doing this for self-promotion, to get more gullibles into his casinos, etc. That even with unbeatable poll results he’ll withdraw (at the last minute, for a spectacular exit) saying “POTUS is too much busywork (so many details and stuff) for Trump, Trump has better more important things to do”.
.
I know, a losing bet.
Trumpolini. I’d suggest using this pairing in an attack ad, but how many Americans would recognise the guy on the right?
slithey tove,
He may have started out that way, but power is an even headier drug than money.
Even if Trump drops out or flames out at the last minute, which I sincerely hope he does, it should be of concern that so many people are willing to vote for him. He may or may not “mean it”, but he’s saying these things and a lot of people are going “yeah, that’s what we need!” That bodes ill for the US, even if the actual next president is Bernie.
Nick @42:
“I don’t know how they think they know this.”
I’m not saying he can’t win or doesn’t want to win.
But it is known that he is not spending much money to run his campaign: http://uk.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-october-campaign-finance-report?r=US&IR=T
So far, he has spent about 2 million from his own money, which is peanuts, even when compared to the previous politicians (who were not billionaires). So yeah, he has been extremely economical when it comes to spending from his own money, which is not what you expect from a guy who wants absolute power.
Yes, it was surprising that his poll numbers did not drop after his many outrageous statements. I will give you that. But we still don’t know if he’s truly serious. Maybe he’s calculated that all this free publicity equals so and so millions of dollars in profit and he’s just making a good business investment.
I was listening to TYT today, and they believe that Pataki or Gilmore are running for the president so they can charge a little more for their speaker fees.
The point is that it is too early to judge whether a candidate is a serious or not. The same applies for Trump. As soon as he starts seriously spending more money from his own pocket, then I’ll take him more seriously.
dianne@48,
True – and I see lotharloo made a similar point @41. When the next financial crash arrives – and it is surely “when” rather than “if”, since no serious action has been taken to avoid it – Overtrump* will know there’s nothing he can’t say.
*Bridge-playing reference.
Here’s another, recent, xenophobic lie from The Donald:
Mashable link
Nope. Not true. Maybe Trump watched that in his dreams? Maybe he can’t tell the difference between New Jersey and Afghanistan?
And former Governor George Pataki tweeted: “Not sure what luxury spider-hole @realDonaldTrump was hiding in on Sept11 but I saw Americans come together that day”
This is a followup to comment 25.
Link
So where did this image of bogus crime statistics come from? From a neo-Nazi who uses a swastika for an avatar.
Some media outlets basically let Trump get away with this particular racist lie by calling Trump’s tweet “controversial.”
Also, Trump did not tweet “racially charged crime data,” as CNN reporters said. What Trump tweeted was not data. Trump tweeted a neo-Nazi meme that is false, wrong, a lie, bigoted and racist.
A few media outlets got it right in reporting on Trump’s trumped up crime stats, calling them “very wrong,” “wildly incorrect,” “wildly inaccurate,” and “false statistics to make a racist point.” I guess we can write all of those sources off as “liberal media,” including The Washington Post and The Daily Beast.
Another source for media responses, and debunking, of Trump’s false crime statistics.
Trump’s poll numbers have gone up again.
at this point why would he spend much of his own money? What more would be gained by more adds? The media is falling over each other to get juicy quotes I am sure he spends more time who he will give an interview to then on what to say.
After the convention when he clinches the nomination the party and the pac’s and supperpac’s and fascist millionaires will pay for what ever is needed beyond what the media will be willing to supply for free.
Not to worry regardless who is the nominated candidate the choice will be the same that is clearer and clearer.
will we chose the best parts of socialism and representative democracy and human rights or an authoritarian highly stratified oligarchy based on wealth, power, religion, race and limited rights
uncle frogy
@53: Good, if unfortunate point. Trump is already ahead in the Rep polls without spending his own money on ads and things. If he goes after the nomination in a serious manner, actually spending some of his own money, he could win this.
This is a followup to comment 51. Ben Carson is backing up the Trumpster’s claims that thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheered while the Twin Towers collapsed on 9/11.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ben-carson-trump-cheering-nj-9-11
Nick Gotts @44 & 46,
Thanks for posting those; I was thinking that Trump was more Mussolini than Hitler, but I didn’t realize just how striking the resemblance is.
One thing is clear: Trump has mastered the concept of the big lie.
Well, that was horrifyingly fascist. Trump is now officially the un-godwinable man, since he has beaten everybody else to the punch by just coming out and openly advocating the closest thing to nazi polices it is possible to get without wearing a swastika.
I have recently been playing Fallout 4, a game set in a post-apocalyptic world that endlessly lampoons aspects of 1950’s era culture. I have found – after listening to the Republican lineup, and Trump in particular – the experience of gaming in a digitally simulated wasteland created by nuclear warfare to be a rather more disturbing experience than before. Even with silliness like giant, irradiated mutant critters to leaven the mood, the image of a world destroyed by violence, tribalism, stupidity and the abuse of scientific knowledge by posturing know-nothings suddenly feels a little too close to home for comfort…
It all depends on what you define ‘win’.
The Russians have always defined ‘win’ as: “when all is said and done, Russia is a sovereign, independent nation capable of keeping on.”
The US defines ‘win’ as: “when all is said and done, we control the resources and major decisions of the vanquished.”
From the US perspective, you cannot ‘win’ a nuclear war because all the resources will be radioactive and there will be no modern technology to control decisions from far away.
From the Russian perspective you can ‘win’ a nuclear war by fucking over you opponent so much that they can no longer project power and keeping enough of your people alive to have someone to guard a flag planted on great ol’ Rus.
I don’t think the waterboarding enthusiasts care if it gets us some intelligence or not they see it as a righteous punishment.
Trump just want GOP to stand for Godwin’s Own Party since God’s Own Party has gone stale.