What seems to be a manifesto by Dylann Roof has been uncovered. I think it’s clear why he murdered 9 people: he was a goddamned racist.
Niggers are stupid and violent. At the same time they have the capacity to be very slick. Black people view everything through a racial lense. Thats what racial awareness is, its viewing everything that happens through a racial lense. They are always thinking about the fact that they are black. This is part of the reason they get offended so easily, and think that some thing are intended to be racist towards them, even when a White person wouldnt be thinking about race. The other reason is the Jewish agitation of the black race.
The guy who gunned down 9 people in cold blood accuses another group of being “stupid and violent”. Yeah, and he’s self-aware and peaceable.
Yet the media framed it as an attack on religion. I think I’d better take another break.
What will be the reaction? Denying that this means he was racist, or quickly changing the subject and never mentioning this again? Place your bets, people.
@2
They’ll find a way to spin this into the “lone crazy person” narrative that always comes after some white dude shoots a bunch of people.
In a fair and just world, Roof would have dropped dead from irony poisoning. Some people really can’t think past their own nose.
Well, somebody certainly seems to “view everything through a racial lense”… #epicselfawarenessfail
Normally irony makes me laugh. Not this time.
I figure the first thing that will happen is denial that he wrote this. Not from him, but from too damn many assholes, several of whom say they hope to be President.
These are not ideas picked up in a vacuum.
throwaway @8:
True, but they weren’t ideas picked up in South Carolina. At least that’s what Glenn Beck thinks:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/06/19/glenn-beck-holds-rally-at-charleston-confederate-war-memorial-crowd-chants-all-lives-matter-images/
@throwaway- the Southern Poverty Law Center had a great discussion on that very fact (that Roof was racist and his views came from a pervasive ideology) on the PBS Newshour on Thursday.
But wouldn’t admitting that undermine the white Christian victim complex?!
Regarding that website, and the verification of the manifest:
Doesn’t prove Roof wrote the manifesto, but it indicates that it is probable that he wrote it.
Good grief… this is precisely why we need better biology education (and we should really be explaining just how wrong the popular understanding of the concept of “race” is).
If, for example, my white sister were to have a child with a black man, that child would be “black”, by society’s standards… and yet it’d be genetically closer to me than to most of the world’s black people (and I closer to him than to most of the world’s whites). That, of course, is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to how complex our mishmash of genes are. Even if the racist’s claims about personality traits and races were remotely true, they’d have been totally garbled beyond belief at this point. Plenty of the whitest people you can imagine (including lots of racists) are carrying around chunks of sub-Saharan African DNA… how come these apparent violent African personality traits only get passed on when you can visually identify someone as being of African descent?
I realize that a lot of people tend to avoid addressing anything the vile racists spew, but I think the internet has fostered these shitty communities of them, where through their own positive feedback loops, they’ve created a whole narrative where they believe that their racism is totally scientific, based on obvious observations, and all those other scientists secretly know they’re right, but avoid saying anything because of the “PC police”.
It would be nice to see some of their stupid ideas about race torn apart in an easy to understand, yet well sourced format.
Microraptor:
Thanks for letting me know, watching now.
And if that couple had a second child, the siblings might well have different pigmentation. Or not.
I’m always interested in capitalization like this. Sometimes, in some screeds, it doesn’t even appear to be intentional. A strange little window into people’s minds.
I’ve noticed this most in the ramblings of authoritarian types on facebook and the like. They’ll be going on and on, and some words, “Freedom”, “Pastor”, “God”, “Church” and the like will be capitalized. Each idea so central, so important, so idealized that they, almost reflexively, earn caps.
Even when the first letter of each sentence is only occasionally capitalized, when “i” sometimes escapes the +shift. The Holy, Unquestionable, Idealized words retain the honor.
“The guy who gunned down 9 people in cold blood accuses another group of being “stupid and violent”.
I thought it is just mental illness…..no?
white + stupid + violent = nut case ….. no?
You know why black people view things through a racial lens? Because they’re discriminated against because of their skin color every fucking day. Sometimes, they’re even shot and killed because of their skin color, and not just by asshats like this guy. Sometimes, it’s by the very people who are paid to protect them from asshats like him.
Congratulations on discovering white privilege.
It gets me, as well – I’m sure the talking heads will push the “lone nut” angle now that the “aimed at Christians” angle wont hunt.
Y’know, I’m white, I’m kind of a loner, and I have mental illness. (BiPolar, PTSD)
What I *don’t* have is the idea that I’m allowed to hurt or kill human beings because they are different, because I don’t like them, or whatever the “excuse” is.
Violence is a choice. Murder is a choice. Being a hater is a choice.
This manifesto sounds like the average Bill O’Rielly/Hannity/Fox and Friends show transcript. But I’m sure they’ll proclaim it a total mystery where this clearly ‘lone wolf disturbed young man’ got these ideas.
Hmm. No mention of God or religion, neither for nor against. That’s kind of surprising in a screed like this. Anyway, I guess this means all the Christian pundits and politicos can rest easy knowing that Roof’s motive had nothing to do with Jesus.
Chengis Khan @17:
The ideology of white supremacy:
Since the ideology of white supremacy suffuses our society at all levels, it necessarily impacts all USAmericans. Individuals who are overtly racist like Dylann Roof are products of a society that places greater value on the lives of white people than People of Color. They are extremists, yes, but they are products of our culture.
What you’ve written reads to me like an attempt to explain racism in biological terms rather than cultural ones.
I see no evidence in support of racism being a mental illness.
I also see no evidence of Dylann Roof having a mental illness.
Do you have evidence of either?
White person, planning to kill several black people for being black, accuses black people of viewing everything in terms of race.
Any time someone accuses minorities or liberals of “playing the race card,” point them to this. This is the psychological company they’re keeping.
And still IS a racist it would seem.
When Muslims do something like this, the media speaks of how they became radicalized. I’d like to see some analysis of how this terrorist got these ideas into his head. Something to do with the culture he has been immersed in. FOXS News, maybe?
What he isn’t, is mentally ill. Not as diagnosed over the Internet or from listening to media reports, to be sure. That’s just the instinct to distance oneself from the possibility that in other circumstances, there go I.
To be fair, he probably is a lone gunman. But that doesn’t exonerate the culture that gave him the specific set of ideas that turned him into a lone gunman.
@JohnnieCanuck
Yup.
https://xkcd.com/385/
Non-privileged person does something bad: it’s a collective feature of non-privileged group and they share collective responsibility.
Privileged person does something bad: privileged group has no responsibility whatsoever, it is always considered an exception.
I don’t get his logic about why different races have to have different innate behaviors. Just because two different entities differ in one way doesn’t automatically imply that they differ in other ways.
I’m not an anthropologist, but from what I understand about human biology there’s no reason that we would need to develop specialized inherited behaviors. If anyone knows more about anthropology than I do, correct me if I’m wrong, but I’ve always had the impression that humans have such a high capacity for learning from our environments, and our brains are shaped so profoundly by developmental events, that we don’t have any use for rigid, genetically-determined instincts. I’m not saying we don’t have any at all, but they’re likely very rudimentary.
That’s kind of the problem with these racist guys; they have this weird view of biology where the exact location and traits of every cell in your body is determined entirely by your genes. They completely ignore how developmental and environmental factors can affect an organism, so everything from your intelligence, to your personality, to your physical attributes are seen as inherited and immutable.
One last thing; does anyone know of any research by real anthropologists or neuroscientists that shows the scientific consensus on race? I feel like I should know at least a bit about this, if only to understand anthropology and race better than the racists do.
Emergence,
Wiki is always a good starting point, but take it with a grain of salt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_genetics
Nicholas Wade wrote bad book claiming enough genetic differences to show race exist, but this not not the consensus of the geneticists he quoted:
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/geneticists-condemn-new-book-claiming-there-is-biological-basis-for-racial-differences-in-behaviour-9664928.html
The evo-psych folks can’t show how much of human behavior is genetic, and how much is socialization. Makes them, and the racists, irrelevant to any discussion.
Here’s an old article by Juan Cole. Top 10 differences between white terrorists and others:
I think anyone with the intelligence of a gnat (but, it seems, more than is possessed by Rick Santorum) understands that this happened because he was a racist scumbag, nothing more. So why spend time on it, even to shame him? The less is said about this individual, the less likely other racist losers are to follow along a similar path. Bury him and forget him and if we talk about anyone, lets talk about those who were slain.
Correction. The families of other terrorists are interrogated as possible co-conspirators and/or arrested and/or targeted in a drone strike.
My sister posted something on Facebook (which I haven’t seen) showing the confederate flag and essentially criticizing people who claim it as their proud heritage,
She was contradicted by someone who reposted the same image and explained that he “couldn’t change his heritage.”
What he apparently doesn’t understand is that while (perhaps) he can’t change his heritage, he can change his attitude towards it. He doesn’t HAVE to be proud of it.
treefrogdundee @31
How did he get to be a “racist scumbag”?
To answer the first question I asked.
Why do you believe that is the case? Do you have any reason to believe talking about the motives of a mass-murderer incites more mass-murder? If so, what is that reasoning derived from?
We can do both and keep both separate. You have not convinced me that ignoring the declared impetus of the act by the killer himself has any negative effect so your demand that we ‘bury’ him is an empty admonishment lacking any authority.
Me @34
sed s/negative/positiveEvidently he got his ideas on race from the Council of Conservative Citizens. They are a white nationalist hate group that used to attract the occasional Republican (and at least one Democrat–Richard Gephardt) until they realized it was bad publicity to be seen with the CCC in public.
So where are all the denunciations from white leaders of Dylann Roof and the CCC?
treefrogdundee #31
We can’t ‘bury’ him, he isn’t dead.
We can talk freely about the motive – which is sadly not limited to this idiot – without tying it specifically to this person. How did he get that way? My guess would be repetition, repetition, repetition from family, neighbors, or someone else with a similarly diseased mind. To say that we as a country are overdue for a good discussion of race is an understatement. But the less we have to see of this individual’s face, manifesto, etc the better. Discuss the motive but let his name be mud.
Chigau: Bury him figuratively speaking. Almost every news story I have seen so far has been his face and his “Why I did it” tale. Those whose lives he took end up as footnotes. The reason we have to deal with these tragedies constantly (among other reasons) is the glorification of sick murderers that is a staple of the American media.
I can sort of see where treefrogdundee is coming from. Xe isn’t talking about ignoring what Roof did, or not delving into the roots of his racism (and his misogyny), but not discussing *him*. I’ve heard it argued that by discussing people like Roof, we give them what they want: notoriety. We spread their names and make them more famous. I don’t think I agree with that, but it’s an argument I’ve seen around.
There’s a stronger argument, I think, for not plastering his face everywhere. Instead of showing him, show them. Show pictures of the deceased.
Remember and honor them.
Spread their names so people know and remember them. Too often, the victims of tragedies are unknown to society at large.
I’m thinking of my own ignorance here as well as the ignorance of countless other people.
Before I started paying attention to police brutality…
Before I paid attention to the Black Lives Matter Movement…
Before I started becoming aware of the depth to which white supremacy runs in this country and how huge a problem racism is…
I was ignorant of so much. I couldn’t have told you the names of people (save for people that appeared prominently in the news, like Trayvon Martin) that were killed in acts of racial violence. I couldn’t tell anyone names of people brutalized by police officers. I think part of that is the media didn’t focus on the victims as much as they did (and still do) the perpetrators.
^ What he said. Sorry if I didn’t phrase it well… the last thing I’m interested in is ignoring WHAT he did. But I see little reason in dwelling on WHO did it.
… because if we ignore the problem, maybe it’ll just go away!
… because talking about the problem makes me uncomfortable.
@13 iankoro, you’ve probably seen this story before – fraternal twins of mixed-race parentage who appear very different racially. The pictures are quite striking (and they’re beautiful young women).
treefrogdundee (love the ‘nym)
I get what you mean, and how Tony explained it. I expressed some confusion as to why even articles on the church’s history and sometimes even the victims, the primary photo up top at the article was… Roof’s face. I, too, would rather hear more about the victims and the community than his pathetic excuses or how he was a loner and a bit strange. We should spend less time talking about his character (and by ‘we’ I mostly mean mainstream media :P) and more time talking about his reasons. And where they are rooted and what contributed to them. Being a loner or having a mental illness or taking drugs are definitely not the proximate causes of his deeply-held, hateful and violent, and ultimately deadly, racism. The discussion needs to go beyond that.
On which subject…
He may have been a lone gunman in the sense that he wrote his own manifesto (still not 100% confirmed?) and that he acted alone in shooting those people. This does not mean that he wasn’t a terrorist, that his actions weren’t political, that he is somehow an aberration – except maybe in scale and bravado, not necessarily in thought process.
Just because he acted alone does not divorce him from the entire cultural context that he ate up and internalized enough to become a terrorist and murderer.
rq,
I’ve read the manifesto and I would say that his actions were definitely political. He wasn’t just getting rid of his frustrations, he wanted his actions to start a sort of a revolution. Or at least that was my interpretation.
There’s a couple of multi-racial folks here in my neighbourhood.
One family is a biracial woman (African American + white) who has 5 kids with white father(s). The two boys read black, just like their mum, the oldest girl reads white. The middle girls reads white or black depending on whether she’s with her sister of her brothers. The baby girl is a freckled redhead.
The other family is two girls of an African American dad and a white mum. They both read black. But the youngest is a carbon copy of her mum’S facial features, but funny enough, few people notice because those features have a different skin colour.
++++
Jafafa Hots
Well, I can’t change the fact my grandpa was a member of the Waffen SS, but I’m damn well not going to fly Swastika flags and sport “Gott mit uns” buckles.
Racist bullshit is racist bullshit, no matter how much time passed.
I’m surprised no one has said Dylann was a victim of the racist society he was raised in, that being raised there he naturally exemplified the attitudes society taught him. His 21st birthday gift was simply the tool he used to demonstrate how well he learned all the stuff he was taught by society around him. That the church was not targeted as a Church, but as a convenient location where he knew lots of his targets would be concentrated.
More simply: that Dylann was _THE_ victim.
–
has that already been spun and I just missed it?
F.O. #27
Yes. Conversation was the exact precisely same here yesterday (even including reference to the same xkcd). I mean, QFT :-(
This is what can happen when kids are left Home Alone….
‘Cause certain aspects that have been reported show a distinct lack of parental guidance….and he looks like an older version of that kid from that movie….is it okay to mock the appearance of this guy?
Not sure how appropriate that was. Apologies.
On the whole southern pride thing, I’m mixed on whether it’s okay to wear the Confederate flag.
While I’m generally proud of our ability to queue and pronounce words correctly *cough* I feel shame for all of the terrible things done in the name of “The Empire”. But I do still wear things with the British flag on and the English flag….It feels like it’s okay because the British and English flag stands for a lot of other good things as well and the confederate stood for slavery but my knowledge here is pretty biased. I guess the only thing I’m mixed about is whether or not I should still have things with the British flag on….any suggestions?
The confederate battle flag should be relegated to museums, civil war cemeteries, and parades with soldiers through the years. It has no place in modern society. It is a symbol of slavery, fighting for slavery, and the KKK.
Giliell,
Reminds me of the time I praised the beauty of a little boy to his (completely doting) grandfather and said “he looks really like you!” (he did: he had noticeably similar features). Adoring grandfather was nonplussed: “but he’s a little black boy”. Grandfather (who is white, no surprises there) had never thought his grandson looked like him. And it wasn’t for want of loving that grandchild (his first), whom he spoiled and played with and cosseted and showed off to friends and seized every chance to babysit – and yet, he just never saw the clear physical resemblance (not then, anyway. I don’t know if he did later).
foolish wolf @49:
As far as I know, Roof hasn’t spoken about his family life growing up and we know his family has refused to speak to reporters. So what we’re left with is knowing very little of Roof’s life growing up. You’re speculating here and I don’t think there’s enough information out there to engage in healthy speculation (as I did upthread discussing the strong possibility of Roof’s white supremacy being tied to a religious domestic terrorist group). Also, he was young-21-but he wasn’t a kid.
BTW, his appearance has no bearing on his actions. It’s irrelevant to the discussion.
Nerd wrote:
Exactly. I’ve often asked myself, if they fly the flag, not advocating racism etc, but to honor the South’s brave “disagreement” with the Feds, then why hold the Battle Flag and not the official Flag of Confederate States? It’s too easy for the Northunders to see the flag as “The looooozzzzers. dot. why you proud to be a loooozzzzzzerrrrrrr?????”
I looked it up once (The ‘official’ flag of the Confederate States ), and found that it IS a bit different than the Stars&Bars flag. If they are so proud of heritage and want to keep everyone aware of it, then be a little more historic, and not just reiterating the war aspect?
Regardless. pointless attempt at derail, move along…
ummm, when I wrote “northunder”, was I intending Nor thunder, or North under?? hmmm
foolish wolf
I’d say the Union Jack is more akin to Stars and Stripes…
…and I wouldn’t wear either.
Because yes, horrible crimes were commited with those flags proudly waving over the dead bodies.
But it’s still not the same, as those weren’t flags created as a symbol of slavery. There is no neutral way to see it, no neutral meaning.
Some racist dunderheads are praising Dylann Roof:
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/texas-volunteer-firefighter-fired-after-posting-dylann-roof-needs-to-be-praised-for-the-good-deed-he-has-done/
At least the guy was fired. Not sure how much that affects a “volunteer,” but it is still a step in the right direction.
@Lynna #56 -My worthless Dad was a proud volunteer firefighter, so I think for a volunteer firefighter, being terminated would be a mark of shame, but I have to guess this man will spin it as “Political Correctness” and his own racism as “Speaking Truth to Power”.
Lynna @56
At least the Mabank Fire Department is making their position on racism clear. Besides, there isn’t much they can do to the guy other than fire him.
PSA:
In the wake of the extrajudicial execution of Michael Brown, Jr at the hands of former Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson, PZ set up the thread Good morning, America to discuss matters of race across the United States. The thread runs two pages and is a great resource for anyone wanting to read about racism in the US. Among the many functions of the thread:
• documenting cases of police brutality
• documenting examples of racism in the civilian population
• documenting examples of racism in popular culture
• amplifying the voices of People of Color, whether writers, bloggers, activists, politicians
• linking to scholarly articles on the subject of race
Those are just off the top of my head. The thread is chock full of links, so it may take time to load for some people. It is very, very information dense. As a result of a function of WordPress, threads automatically close down after 3 months. When that thread closed, PZ set up the Later this morning in America thread. When that was closed, he set up the Reagans morning in America has acquired a different resonance thread, and when that one shut down recently, he started up the Look at all the white people thread.
I recommend all of these threads for anyone looking to expand their knowledge of racism and the myriad ways it manifests and influences people in the United States. There is no particular reading order for the comments in the various threads, so anyone can dive in, click a link and learn (although many times all the information at the link has been copied to the thread).
In addition, while the threads focus to a large degree on the racism faced by African-Americans, they are not limited to such. There are links to various articles, blog posts, news sites, books, and social media posts regarding racism affecting other People of Color (such as people of Hispanic, Indian, and Asian descent).
While the threads are focused on collecting information, there are occasional discussions between posters, so please don’t think you can’t chime in with your thoughts or opinions.
Lastly, while there have been a handful of commenters who have regularly contributed to those threads (chief among them, rq, who has been doing this for nearly a year; Pteryxx and I have also contributed a good deal of material), anyone can swing by and drop off links to whatever material they feel is suitable. And don’t worry about overlapping with someone else’s posts. It happens (though not as often as one might think).
Thanks for the PSA Tony#59. There is a lot of work in those threads that needs to be kept fresh in peoples minds, and our newbies may not be aware of them.
Tony @59
Good Morning, America, if I recall correctly, ran well over 2 pages… I believe it was 5, in the end (not to daunt anyone). As did all the other iterations (more than 2 pages each, I would say, though not all reached 5). :) Thanks for the announcement, though.
I agree with the idea that we should focus on the victims, to see their humanity rather than allowing them to become statistics, and to focus on the motives and the culture that supported the perpetrator, rather than on him directly.
Right now, the media are giving him exactly the kind of exposure he wanted.
Meanwhile, Senator Ted Cruz, (also a presidential candidate for the 2016 election), is comfortable making gun jokes. The victims of the Charleston shooting are still being mourned and buried, and Cruz is making gun jokes:
Link
Anna Elizabeth and Al Dente (57 and 58), thanks for additional input. It’s true that many volunteer firefighters are proud of the work they do, so perhaps firing that racist guy would have more impact than I had thought.
His community will not think well of him.