I guess he noticed my previous mention of the wacky Terry Dean, Nemmers.
freethoughtblogs Monitor:
Would you please explain to me why UMM Prof Paul “Logical Fallacy” Myers is inciting his less-than-intelligent cult following to harass me? I have received a harassing email and my youtube channel at ArrestAJudgeKit is being flooded with wild, outrageous and unsubstantiated assertions that I am supposedly a “Sovereign Citizen.” Myers is using his bully pulpit to call my sanity into question with wild, outrageous and unsubstantiated assertions. Has Myers deluded himself into thinking that his Ph.d. is somehow a state-issued license to diagnose? Maybe Myers should review the Mn laws on criminal defamation and harassment before taking such irresponsible actions?
My reasonable suspicion is that this is Myers’ retaliation for my lawful data request for public data related to Myers’ inciting UMM students to censor and criminally damage UMM sanctioned material, isn’t it? It shocks the conscience that Myers would incite UMM students to censor and criminally damage UMM sanctioned material, doesn’t it? Now shame-filled and guilt-ridden Myers feels the need to intimidate me, a UMM graduate, into silence? I will not be bullied by UMM Prof Paul “Logical Fallacy” Myers nor his less-than-intelligent cult of personality followers, will I?
Terry Dean, Nemmers
Oh, dear. You flooded his youtube channel? I looked to see what terrible things you’d been saying. His latest video has…2 brief comments, one calling him a loon, the other one calling him crazy. His video before that? No comments. Before that? No comments. The one before that? No comments. I guess by his previous levels of activity, 2 comments is a “flood”.
I listened to a couple of his videos. His schtick is simple: he records his calls to county officials, attorneys, secretaries, etc., in which he levies incredible accusations of criminal activity, and basically monologues tediously on the phone about the perfidy of all these people who don’t respond promptly enough to his demands for information. Meanwhile, the victim on the other end of the phone typically says “uh-huh” a lot, or tries to connect him to someone else. I came away deeply impressed with the politeness of Minnesota’s civil servants.
He doesn’t deny that he’s a Sovereign Citizen
, but he tries to imply it, and he does continue to use the patterns of the Sovereign Citizen
movement: the weirdly punctuated name, and the excessively affected and evasive writing style. I’m think of changing his name from “Comma” to “Question Mark”. Or maybe “Question, Mark” to cover all of the bases.
He’s not quite as incomprehensible as :David-Wynn: Miller, or as successful a con artist as this Florida Man, and I hope he doesn’t turn as violent as the Kanes, but I do know I want him to just stay away from me.
He’s still at it.
freethoughtblogs Monitor:
The monitors of the so-called free thought blogs have no problem with UMM Prof Paul “Logical Fallacy” Myers inciting his less-than-intelligent cult following to harass me, do they? The monitors of the so-called free thought blogs have no problem with UMM Prof Paul “Logical Fallacy” Myers making wild, outrageous and unsubstantiated assertions to defame, do they? Ironic, that the blog would be called the free thought blogs because it would appear that all the less-than-intelligent followers can do is blindly repeat whatever ridiculous nonsense/slander that come out of the mouth of UMM Prof Paul “Logical Fallacy” Myers, isn’t it?
I’ll take up my concerns with your internet provider, won’t I? I’m sure that inciting harassment and slander are terms of service violations, aren’t I? http://www.bluehost.com/terms.
Terry Dean, Nemmers
P.S. It still shocks the conscience that Myers would incite UMM students to censor and criminally damage UMM sanctioned material, doesn’t it?
Ok, um, I just gotta ask – what exactly are Manganese laws ? Don’t mix with water ? Don’t break the nodules ?
“Question, Mark” is perfect.
This person really is hopelessly unable or unwilling to do normal human interactions.
On the other hand, Question, Mark does speak pinniped rather fluently….
The fool can’t make a straight declarative sentence.
He does sound like a loon with everything a question. Of course, he could change that by changing his shtick.
Is Terry Dean, Nemmers disagreeing with the assertion that he is a wackaloon? Even with the load of prima facie evidence he himself has provided? He seems deluded, doesn’t he? He certainly overuses the interrogative, wouldn’t you agree? And his endless questions are barely comprehensible, aren’t they? Am I glad I don’t live in the USA where people like this can buy staggering numbers of firearms? Does the Pope shit in the woods?
Sorry, but every time I see that name…
Ha! The d should be upper case, so his entire diatribe fails, according to the rules of negative averment.
At least he’s not trying to charge you a fee for the unauthorized use of his name.
Question, Mark seems to have….ahem…..issues O_o He does, doesn’t he? Doesn’t he???
Oh hai, how’s your sex life?
Should we just leave that job to your emails then?
I wouldn’t want to subject myself to being held accountable for libel by making declarative statements about Terry “Sovereign Citizen and Convicted Felon” Dean, Nemmers, would I? It would shock the conscience if Terry Dean, Nemmers, were to be called a blithering idiot on the Internet where everyone could see it, wouldn’t it?
I still don’t know how quoting your own words verbatim and fully is defamation…
FTFY ;-)
I have to agree with Nemmers on this one, PZ. Going from zero to two is indeed a “flood.” Why, it’s an infinite percent increase!
I smell formaldehyde.
I looked up David-Wynn Miller. Wow. Even by the standards of freemen on the land, that guy’s a nutcase. It’s like the Timecube guy decided to practice law.
So how long before we see a sternly worded Irish blog post about our callous mistreatment of poor Mr , Nemmers?
I’ve seen things that’ll shock ya conscience!
Also, it is my logically founded presumption that taking offence at the implication that I am a less-than-intelligent cult follower would be reasonable, isn’t it? I am probably more of a sub-par clan member, aren’t I? It stuns the brainmeats that such a message would be sent to a blog monitor, as if such is a position of public office, doesn’t it?
It perturbs the reasonable person that Question, Mark has declared his allegiance to Satan, doesn’t it? I can get away with saying that since I phrased it as a question. I can, can’t I? Is there no shame at all left for Question, Mark: Liar? There isn’t, is there?
Chigau:
Ahem. I do believe it’s the scent of Science! that’s about…
Some posts just write themselves. PZ must be using this sudden free time in prepping for the next semester of classes. Question?, Mark is doing a public service with his rants.
Iyeska
I love the smell of science in the morning.
Lynda Lyon Block, the last woman to go to the electric chair was part of this “sovereign citizen” thing. She didn’t exactly help herself, by basing her defence case on the premise that the state of Alabama doesn’t exist.
Or to translate into sovereign citizen speak:
L,y,n,d,a, L,y,o,n, B,l,o,c,k; t,h,e, l,a,s,t, w,o,m,a,n, t,o, g,o, t,o, t,h,e, e,l,e,c,t,r,i,c, c,h,a,i,r, w,a,s, p,a,r,t, o,f, t,h,i,s, “s,o,v,e,r,e,i,g,n, c,i,t,i,z,e,n,” t,h,i,n,g? S,h,e, d,i,d,n,’t, e,x,a,c,t,l,y, h,e,l,p, h,e,r,s,e,l,f; b,y, b,a,s,i,n,g, h,e,r, d,e,f,e,n,c,e, c,a,s,e, o,n, t,h,e, p,r,e,m,i,s,e, t,h,a,t, t,h,e, s,t,a,t,e, o,f, A,l,a,b,a,m,a, d,o,e,s,n,’t, e,x,i,s,t?
Iyeska wrote:
Smells like cumin.
Diagnose? Being a Sovereign Citizen is a disease now? I would say a symptom at most.
Or do you need permission from the state to correlate cause and effect now?
,?? I’m thinking of changing my name. -r-
From this post, to your previous post about this guy, to the SPLC page about sovereign citizens… that was a rabbit hole of crazy. I don’t think I understand this human drive to claim access to secret knowledge. Religion, conspiracy theories, SC – they’re all symptomatic of this same drive. “Only I and my band of friends know the secret trick to getting eternal life | wealth | freedom”.
People are strange.
Maybe he should change his name to Lovesign.
A straight declarative sentence can be analyzed for accuracy and errors can be pointed out. It stands for something, means something. When a loon makes a straight declarative sentence, others can see that the loon is a loon. So loons have to avoid that mistake, because they’re loons.
First off: I’m not trying to diagnose anyone. But whenever I read this kind of loon-speak the word schizophrenia comes to mind. There is something quite peculiar in much of these ramblings found throughout the web, almost like it’s the same person who writes all of them. It’s both fascinating and deeply disturbing at the same time, like watching a car crash in slow motion.
My recommendation to you PZ is to give these loons a wide berth. I don’t think you can change anything by exposing them or their lunacy, and antagonizing them could possibly make you a target for violence.
Wait, does that have something to do with those newspapers? It certainly doesn’t seem to have anything to do with Comma’s original email.
I think Bronze Dog’s post on the first email was right; these guys think they can add a colon to their name and tap their 1099-OID form to return their Treasury Direct Account to play from the graveyard and gain Protection From Fed until the beginning of their next turn.
Erlend Meyer @ #31. You’re doing that, ‘I’m not …but’ is not a way to convince anyone you’re not doing the exact thing you said you weren’t going to.
What you did with that ‘But …’ is negate the intention of the previous sentence.
Don’t diagnose over the internet. Don’t throw out accusations of mental illness around in a disparaging way. Don’t say you’re not going to do something and then go fucking do it.
Other than that, sure, PZ should do exactly what he said he would do, which is to keep away from people like Question, Mark.
Oh, and, you know, be in some way (maybe a very small way) fearful that they, rather, may get near to him.
A harassing email? He got a harassing email? That he’s blaming you for? Am I missing something, because I don’t recall you sharing his email address or suggesting anyone contact him in any way. Given everything else we’ve seen about this guy, it would be far too much to expect him to grasp that there has to be some indication of a call to action for any claim that you’re inciting your followers to harass him. And probably more than one email. Dude, you have a public YouTube channel with your email address right there on the about page. You have a shitty blog with your email address right there, not even obfuscated to confuse bots. And you allegedly got one allegedly harassing email and you think you can blame the guy who said, look at this silly blog and YouTube channel?
And if you can attack PZ for one email from one person who may or may not read this site, what kind of prosecution can be lodged against you for your harassment of government officials taking up valuable taxpayer time? Or if anyone actually visited your site and harassed any of the people you talk about.
I hate upspeak.
I keep thinking of some MADtv(?) skits. Smith Comma John, Human for President. “I’m sitting near fire!” [looks at fireplace nervously] “Voluntarily!”
one the first things to do when you have to get rid of a vermin infestation is to turn on the lights and clean up all the detritus, and clean out all the dark hiding places.
Works with many forms of harassment also. Make sure all interaction is very public. Make it as public as necessary. It makes no difference what the mental state of the harasser is all interaction would be better out in the open.
As we can easily see there are not very many things that are beneficial, positive or noble that thrive on secrecy but we can see many positive outcomes to more open public awareness. Not least of which is the squirming and loud reaction by the harassers and their sympathizers.
Here we have a perfect example.
uncle frogy
I DON’T KNOW. YOU TELL ME. IS THAT YOUR SUSPICION OR ISN’T IT?! Urgh, this English teacher is twitching. Adding “isn’t it?” to move the burden of proof onto your listener– a super deceptive and bad faith move when arguing– only works when it’s something THAT THE LISTENER CAN VERIFY. Fuck’s sake. We can’t very well tell you what your own suspicions are, idiot.
Isn’t it is a tag in certain English dialects. Now I’m hearing this guy’s emails in a Welsh accent…
Well, now that Prof Myers has sicced the horde on Terry Dean, Nemmers, shouldn’t Terry Dean, Nemmers be concerned? He should check his rear-view mirror when driving, shouldn’t he? When walking down the street, stop suddenly and turn every 30 seconds or so, yes? To make sure he’s not being followed, of course? And perhaps should avoid all forms of electronic communications just in case his phones are tapped and his e-mail is being hacked, am I right? Best not even to pick up a newspaper lest there be secret code telling people where to find him, isn’t that correct?
If I were Terry Dean, Nemmers I would hide indoors for the next 2 years or so, wouldn’t I? For fear of retribution from Dr. Myers’ synchphants, wouldn’t that be logical?
Perhaps prayer would work? If Terry Dean, Nemmers prayed a lot (indoors and out of sight, of course) wouldn’t that lessen the impact of the full force of the horde?
Quoting Eamon Knight (8 January 2015 at 8:43 am),
He wouldn’t be able to invoke admiralty law because he didn’t suffix his name, unlike for instance, Peter Hyphen Andrew Full Colon Nolan Open Bracket Lower Case Letter C Close Bracket. (The link above is to one of the SPLC’s articles on the legalese Time Cube guy whom PZ cited in the OP, who really does call himself “David Hyphen Wynn Full Colon Miller”. Riddikulus!)
Has he ever ended a sentence with a period or exclamation mark in his life?
It’s almost as if he thinks grammar is some sort of magic spell, isn’t it?
OH NO, NOW I’M DOING IT… aren’t I?
@ Thomathy # 34:
Fair point, I guess I WAS questioning their sanity. But that wasn’t my intention, really. I know I’m not competent to diagnose such illnesses, and if I were to guess I wouldn’t suspect this Comma of being mentally ill. From what I could gather he’s been through the legal system at least once, I’m sure something as serious as that would have been picked up.
I do however get the feeling that there are some similarities between many of these loons and what I’ve read from known schizophrenics, but I have never been able to put my finger on what it is. They’re both usually pretty incoherent, but I think there is something else going on as well. But as I said, I can’t put my finger on it and was wondering if anybody else has noticed the same. Again, not trying to diagnose anyone, just pointing out some weird similarities in the language.
Dang, didn’t catch #44 before posting: This is exactly what I’m talking about, it’s like the words are assumed to hold some deeper meaning. Or perhaps some sort of magical thinking as to the power or significance of some phrases. There is something weird going on that I can’t seem to catch.
Perhaps the best critique – certainly the most trenchant and pointed – of the sovereign citizen movement is from an Alberta, Edmonton, CA judge who wrote a brief detailing what he has identified as common strategies of what he calls “OPCA” (Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Arguments) litigants (link below).
It’s a very worthwhile read. The judge, who rivals the Dover Trial judge for a sense of humor, writes brilliantly, identifies the foundational assumptions that are the underpinning of the SC movements and proceeds to explain why they (and the legal strategies based on them) are flawed, often in great detail.
His discussion of the use of altered names is rather wonderful, as he basically explains over and over and over again that all the variously punctuated variants of a name are functionally equivalent…..
http://www.albertacourts.ab.ca/jdb/2003-/qb/Family/2012/2012abqb0571ed1.pdf
Mike Royko (not that I’m a regular Mike Royko quoter, am I?) once said something along the lines of “I may not be qualified to diagnose someone as insane or mentally ill, but I can tell when they’re nuts.”
Didn’t he?
Wouldn’t Mr. Mark Questions be surprised to discover that even Gmail can tell that a name with punctuation* in it is equivalent to the name without**?
*Just periods and plus signs, though. Maybe this is the key to why commas are superior!
**isn’t it?
@47, from the linked court decision: “When reduced to their conceptual core, most OPCA concepts are contemptibly stupid.”
Yep, that’s up there with Judge Jones’ “breathtakingly inanity” alright ;-).
(“OPCA”, ie Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument, is the moniker the Alberta judge coined for the characteristic litigious strategies employed by SC/Freemen).
Reading the brief that hackerguitar linked to was interesting.
Quite a ways in, there was one thing that came up… the “taxes are theft’ and “slavery” ideas.
I wonder how much crossover there is between Libertarians and “Sovereign Citizens?”
Bah, fucked up #50. Judge Jones referred to the conduct of certain members of the Dover school board as “breathtaking inanity”.
Pretty much all sovereign citizens either identify as libertarian or are indistinguishable from such.
Not all libertarians identify as sovereign citizens or are recognizable as such.
I checked his YT channel, and it looks like he’s cleaned up all the flood damage. I saw one comment about seven months ago, but it looked like he just put that there so someone would agree with him.
The SC/Freemen argument boils down to “I don’t wanna [whatever],” brilliantly characterized by Justice Rooke’s statement:
This category of litigant shares one other critical characteristic: they will only honour state,
regulatory, contract, family, fiduciary, equitable, and criminal obligations if they feel like it. And
typically, they don’t.
They share many common beliefs and sometimes people are both.
Apparently that ending all sentences in a question thing IS a magic spell – it magically puts the burden on the listener, according to the Sovereign Citizen spellbook. Who can question magic?
As it turns out, federal judges have pretty good saving throws.
“I am not a comma! I am a freeman!” — The Prisoner
The name on my birth certificate has an apostrophe in it. Does that mean that it doesn’t refer to my fictitious “corporate self”, but to the real me? Or what? Just to be on the safe side, I’m adding an interrobang to my name.
Terry?! O’Carroll
Wow, that really is time cube-worthy. The guy wouldn’t have a full colon if his head wasn’t so firmly wedged in it.
I worked it out! He’s cosplaying his Homestuck fan-troll.
All that weird legalese and “,isn’t it? ,aren’t I?”is just his typing quirk. Afterall, SOM3T1M3S YOU H4V3 TO S4CR1F1C3 L3G1B1L1TY FOR 1ND1V1DU4L1TY.
Man am I glad that’s sorted. He I was thinking it was something *weird*.
(Homestuck, for those not familiar: http://www.mspaintadventures.com. You’re welcome)
If my research is correct, the best way to deal with pesky sovereign citizens is to go down to your local courthouse and ask for a form HAR-102GC, Special Edition. Make sure you fill out the document with the S.C.’s name in ALL CAPS three times, and have it notarized under a Full, or New, Moon. This will re-bind him to his state-owned corporate shell for a period of not less than seven reincarnations.
Also, I’ve read that if you write his name in RED INK he’ll get penalized with extra thetans.
oh wow, see what happens when someone links an unfavoring opinion of you, tisk tisk.
He’s got an odd thing going with those tag questions, isn’t it? He’s fond of them, but he doesn’t get them quite right, was he?
@liquoriceAllsort I think gmail ignores periods (.) and ignores everything after a + (including the +). Well mostly. It certainly delivers it to the bit before the + but I believe the stuff after the + can be used for filtering purposes.
@Erlend Meyer, 46
There’s a good reason why you can’t catch the weird thing that’s going on. Those phrases do have a power, and I’ll tell you what it is…
Power word: Bamboozle!
For it seems that the party henceforth known as :He :Who :Nems has filed divorce from reality, is this correct? For :He :Who :Nems ascribes to a movement that uses ridiculous grammatical rules in order to navigate through legal loopholes that are entirely imaginary, is this not the case? For that reason it seems that we should avoid :He :Who :Nems in real life, given the correlation between this desperate and irrational legal maneuvering, is that so? For it has been determined that :He :Who :Nems is obsessed with P; Zed; Me?yers, and the ties with the Movement of Sovereignty suggest an inclination towards violence, meaning perhaps authorities should be involved, insofar as those authorities are legitimate according to the proclamations set forth in the Boston Tea Party and according to the legal treatises set forth by Benjam;in Fra(nkli)n in Almanac Comma Farmer’s, do you not agree? For :He :Who :Nems could be the next Dave : Dennis Mabus : Markuze, could it not be?
Signed,
ante: prep, ro, All Rights Reserved, 1st Amendment Certified, Constitutionally Guaranteed, Modus Ponens, Laissez Faire, Return to Sender, Post Dated 2023, Esq.
For it should be noted by ante: prep, ro, for the record, that the correlation aforementioned was between “this desperate and irrational legal maneuvering” and the omitted phrase of “criminal activity including violence”, do you understand?
Signed,
ante: prep,ro, (TM), (c), No Take Backsies, 1.7% interest, rates and fees apply, Protected under Internet Law, No Gurlz Allowed, Diplomatically Immune, ad valorem, in perpetuity.
@ Athywren: LOL! But that implies that the tactic actually works, which it doesn’t.
What I’ve always wondered is why we don’t just let them have it their way. If someone declares themselves to be a “sovereign citizen”, aren’t they renouncing their citizenship? And without this or a valid visa they would be in the country illegally and could be detained, right? Hell, they could even be deported except that few countries would have them. How about Antarctica? That would solve things pretty quickly I suspect.
I wonder who [Terry Dean, Nemmers] thinks he is addressing in his emails to
The Monitor of freethoughtblogs.
Doesn’t he know that PZ is the only one with Control?
and, PZ, where’s my pony?
To the customer NEMMERS TERRY DEAN:
Dear Mr/Mrs TERRY DEAN,
Your submissions to the -+:=<MONITORS>=:+- have been received and added to trouble ticket 1053-R, haven't they? You will save your ticket number for all future references to this case, won't you? It could be that at this time, the tentative situation diagnosis of RTFM-FAIL/PEBCAK has been logged, couldn't it? This case will be escalated to the very top, won't it?
Question, Mark is comedy gold, one of the funniest things I’ve read from you. It’s like something Strong Bad would come up with.
Nothing else to add, just thought that was… just amazing.
Question Mark was a Mysterian, not a Nemmers, wasn’t he?
The surname of the co-creator of McGruff, the Crime Dog, is Nemmers, isn’t it?
It’s a rhetorical style that grows on one, doesn’t it?
I see PZ’s “Comma” and “Question Mark” and raise it to Question, Comma? Mark. Scanning some of Question, Comma? Mark’s Lion News/Arrest a Judge Kit YouTube offerings is like falling through the looking glass, isn’t it? It is, isn’t it? He seems to believe he understands Minnesota law better than lawyers and public officials, doesn’t he?
In all seriousness, he seems to believe that his collected work exposes a syndicate of municipal and county malfeasors when any fair viewing shows exactly the opposite. He harangues people for as long as they’ll allow him, preventing them from fulfilling their typical responsibilities. Whatever these cops, city/county attorneys and other public officials (and their support staffs) are getting paid, they deserve double for having to deal with this guy. When an attorney sent him a photo CD in jail, he insisted that the CD is a weapon. After he made a scene, police officers quietly follow him around a public building. To him, that was harassment.
Meanwhile, he tells a secretary that he doesn’t care that he’s she’s uncomfortable with his incessant filming (which inexplicably focuses on people’s torsos). The slightest challenges to his outrageous assertions provoke him to raise his voice and ratchet up his hostility to inappropriate levels. And his frequent peals of forced laughter are just fucking scary.
This guy is clearly abusing public processes to make inane, paranoid averments. He seems like the kind of person who could become dangerous.
It’s also funny that Question, Comma? Mark complains that PZ is unqualified to “diagnose” him. He mistakes his own wild allegations as legal conclusions. He flings around words like “felon” and “harassment” without understanding their meanings.