This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly.
Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly.
Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread
Mellow Monkey, Yes, I’ve consulted their guides previously, albeit I should probably make sure I’ve got the latest edition. Thanks for reminding me!
Brony:
I understand what you’re getting at now.
Although my point really does still stand. I don’t care *how* people get engaged. I just would like people TO get engaged. One way is by trying to educate others. Often that is done on a one on one basis, as you’re doing. That’s effective, especially if, as I suspect, you’re using evidence to argue your position. But hey, that’s one reason I posted those links. I know that some people want to help and don’t know how to. Hopefully among those options are something that could work for you.
And hell, if it makes you feel better, for all that I’m blogging and Facebooking the hell out of Ferguson, I still wish there were more I could do.
Relevant to larger issues. Minority communities experience the effects of economic problems more intensely and faster than others and there are larger patterns at work. This might help in getting through to others.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029382.400-the-maths-that-saw-the-us-shutdown-coming.html#.U_OafGPZg0J
Essentially there may be a larger pattern at work where the wealth gap and specialized workers with no jobs help to create “boom and bust” cycles. Competition among people for jobs is where the institutionalized racism and bigotry comes into play.
The trick to using chopsticks is to realize they aren’t straws. Don’t try to suck the food up using just one. Use two, and lift up the soup…
Woo Hoo, Adrienne Palicki (the actress who was set to play Wonder Woman on the small screen a few years ago, before that fell through) is going to be on Agents of SHIELD next season, as Mockingbird.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=54950
@ Tony
Your links and lots of others have been valuable. I have all the posts where all of you who have been updating us book marked. I’m tempted to take all the links, sort them by category with respect to the sorts of excuses and obfuscation I am encountering and repost them to the Thunderdome for easy access. But that is an undertaking I’m not sure I would have time for at the moment.
Experimental,
attempting to post from a certain Nook …
Oh my FSM this is different – but it works!!! Whee!
Tony @477: Re tear gas masks. That would be very dodgy in Canada. The Tories, with full support of the Liberal party, passed a law in 2013 which bans wearing of masks (anything which might conceal your identity) during “a riot or unlawful assembly”. Maximum penalty: 10-year prison sentence.
Tony, I’ll definitely will. But so far we haven’t been anywhere except the supermarket and the pool :-)
With affection for Tony!, but for everyone:
yeah, that whole thing read like,
:puke:
Again, not that I wouldn’t be awesomely happy with a BP movie. T’challa was the first super-hero I ever really loved. Carol Danvers I wanted to love, though she wasn’t given enough attention (I had to read the avengers, which was very inconsistent in quality in the late 70s when I first picked up super-hero comix) and I felt ambivalent about her military background. (Now I’m fine with it – I still don’t like the idea of blowing people up from a fighter cockpit – or anywhere else – but I’ve become a lot more lax about how much violence-that-looks-like-real-world-violence I can have in my fiction and still enjoy it as fiction.) Since then, I’ve grown to love her. Her Binary phase included some awesome stories and some awesome roles for her in those stories. The DeConnick era is good storytelling. In general, I’d love to see more of her, and I’d really love to see a movie of her.
So I’m not puking on the news that these movies might get made, but he gets asked about this more than IM4 or Avengers3, he’s fully aware that the MU to date has been dismissive of people of color and women [GREEN is a more plausible color for a superhero’s skin than black?], he’s fully aware that he can tap new audiences with these movies…who then might be drawn into IM4 or Av3 in the future…and yet all he can say is, “This might be a groundswell, but we’ve got our timeline”?
That’s just an icky response.
Get Gail Simone, Sue DeConnick, Greg Rucka, Reginald Hudlin, John Romita Jr, & Joss Whedon in a room and let them run wild with the non-mutant, non-spiderman characters. Only requirement: The top 2 roles in every movie must be white trans folk, white women, or any person of color of any gender. Think of the combos we could get: Misty Knight & Jocasta! Misty stars, but needs help with her cybernetics after getting the crap kicked out of her a third of the way in, seeking help and finds Jocasta on the outs with the Avengers after clashing with Janet. Jocasta & Misty work together, but can’t quite get it done. They go to Janet for money help, since Jocasta can’t go directly to the Avengers or Stark before making up with Janet. They hash things out, which gives us background on Janet and Jocasta, then agree to go their separate ways. Misty & Jocasta kick ass, but it’s revealed at the end that they might not have won if a powerful bad guy that was part of their nemesis group was actually present. Where is that enemy? Close of the movie and the enemy is stalking Janet.
There’s got to be a BP movie that Hudlin. could write. That cast could be half black, with great roles for women in Ramonda and Shuri, and possibly the Dora Milaje.
Maria de Guadalupe Santiago & Bonita Juarez (esPESHully Bonita Juarez) would be awesome together. You could bring in Victor Alvarez, if you wanted. They’re powerful enough that they could play with Monica Rambeau. And she’s in New Orleans now, right? So something that revolved around the Caribbean, smuggling, that sort of thing might work to bring Santiago, Juarez, and Rambeau together.
There’s just so much. Too many of the characters I know are mutants, and so aren’t available to the main cinematic MU right now, but there are a ton of great characters. I’d really love to see Bonita Juarez get some love, and there aren’t nearly enough indigenous characters, so the already great, you-don’t-have-to-make-excuses-to-put-her-in Santiago is a natural choice.
I’d be on about Luke Cage, but you already have him coming to netflix. Mockingbird is popular, but she’s going to enter Agents of SHIELD. Doesn’t mean you can’t use her (maybe instead of Janet in the above movie? doesn’t provide the characterization opportunities of having Janet & Jocasta in the same film, but she could be there to help when other resources run out…or maybe save her to help Janet out of a tight spot in the beginning of the sequel.)
There’s Greer Grant Nelson. I feel ambivalent about her characterization sometimes, but she’s unapologetically kick ass and unapologetically femme. Unlike fucking Bobby Morse who has no excuse not to cut that blonde mane – how does she fight with that thing? – Nelson could be a real model of how to be a kick ass woman without being “one of the boys”. I think she was originally white, but would work excellently as a character immersed in Black or Latina culture, with her salon nails filed sharp, lacquered, and affixed with crystals or gems. Since you don’t know how she looked before her transformation, this could just be acculturation (having striped fur can get you pegged as rather ‘non-white’ no matter the color of epidermis you had when you were born) rather than an alternative-race-at-birth in the movie world. There could be great stuff there in having folk of different backgrounds nonetheless find common ground when they face similar marginalization.
Okay, I’m going on. I need to get some tea and lunch, but there’s so much better marvel can do than, “we’ve got a schedule, but we’re impressed with how persistent the fans are and may actually satisfy them some day.”
Brony
That would be helpful, but that sounds like a pretty mammoth task.
Giliell, hello! Glad things are well! Looking forward to photos. Enjoy!!
Rob
Does that apply to cops as well? Harper doesn’t exactly inspire my trust.
Creative graffitt, for all you superhero fans out there. :)
@rq
I take a very “military strategist” approach to social conflicts. It’s a difficult thing to do well because even though a lot of it is essentially running off of combat rules, the rhetoric often has to be very different and literally being militant is a context specific thing.
I have been working on a more detailed comparison between the general division between”Dawkins side” and “PZs side” in terms of general skepticism/atheism social conflicts. But I’m wondering if it’s too soon and too distracting until the Ferguson situation is better. Also I’m trying to make sure I am as fair and complete about mistakes on both sides, I can be said to have “lost” on parts of that situation (but it’s not really losing if you are better about reality as a result).
You all make me wish I was more into comics. I do like a lot of the recent TV and movie adaptations though. I hope Agents of Shield gets to keep going.
rq
That monument in Sofia is purely awesome.
ISIS beheads American journalist.
Also, read in local news, suspected cases of ebola in Austria and Germany. Stress level: increasing.
Annnyway. Bedtime.
Here, have a break from all the recent nastiness. Experimental musician/sound artist Hal McGee took a video of a cat with some cool markings back in 2013.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asbSS8vgCXc
Crip Dyke:
Your comment made me smile as I walked to the convenience store (something I think I shall do more often in the daytime, rather than at night).
I too would love to see Bonita Juarez on the big screen. Heck, on the small screen would be cool. A hero with fire based powers seems like one that wouldn’t challenge the SFX budget that much (though I could be waaaay wrong). That would add more diversity to the show.
I actually couldn’t remember who Victor Alvarez was initially (despite having bought most of his appearances). He’d be perfect on the big or small screen.
It’s a shame that Miles Morales (for those who don’t know, Miles is half-black/half-hispanic and took on the mantle of Spider-Man in an alternate universe where Peter Parker died) will most likely never be seen outside of Ultimate comics (I’m sure Marvel doesn’t want confusion between him and Peter Parker, even though they’re different characters who share the same heroic name) as he’d a be nice character to have in movies, on a tv show, or even a cartoon.
threadrupt – there’s flooding in JAL’s area. JAL, are you around and okay?
Any loungers in the Houston area? It looks like I’ll be there for a conference around Sept 27…
So, apparently I eat udon like someone who’s been to Japan. That’s what I was told by the three Japanese-American women I sat next to at lunch today.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Beatrice (#484)
I’ve avoided Japanese crime novels so far because law enforcement and jurisprudence, especially as practiced in Japan, are another area I don’t know much about or know the lingo for. There are tons of crime novels and thrillers in Japanese, though. Perhaps a disproportionate number given how relatively safe Japan is.
Argh.
Called my parents to wish my mother a happy birthday.
My father got on the line and offered his opinion of the events in Ferguson.
In summary, my father is a middle-class fiftysomething white male who lives in a small, rural town. His opinions reflect this fact.
I know there are a lot of people who are older than me here, so seriously – how did you make it through the civil rights clashes of the 60s? I am in complete despair. Everything is terrible, people are awful, I have no faith that any of this will result in any meaningful long-term change, everywhere I turn is another story of brutality of some humans to others, starting to teach classes about plants next week seems like a stupid joke while there are people marching in the streets and getting gassed by police. How did you do it and come through intact?
Carlie,
I do not want your question to remain unacknowledged. I need more time to try to compose a thoughtful response. All I can say for now is that survival of the 60s, for people who were committed and cared, took many different forms. Perhaps the only solace is that there are still people out here willing to fight, and fight, and fight again. Be well, and teach furiously about plants… They are worth teaching about.
*hugs* for Morgan.
and for carlie
–
My professional and personal life are …in a bit of a turmoil. One of the lawyers quit yesterday, effective immediately. I am on vacation. They told me not to come back early, that they can handle it. It’ll be that much more chaotic when I get back.
My brother is trying to convince my sister and myself that we should cut off contact with our mom, like he did. That’s not happening. We are hoping we don’t lose our brother in the deal.
I’m doing relatively okay, all things considered.
Good to hear from you Portia. You mentioned earlier that there is turmoil. We’ve got your back, as much as possible. One of the things that impresses me about you is that you are extraordinarily rational, and still able to give your emotions appropriate room. “You are a better man than I, Gunga Din.”
Portia:
Aw geez. I’m sorry your life is a bit tumultuous at the moment. I hope you and your sister don’t lose your brother.
Portia:
Best wishes for expeditious and satisfactory resolutions in both your quandaries.
Seriously. I hope it all goes well for you. Me, I had to cut a brother loose. It’s not an easy thing to do, but it’s not so bad, seeing as you’ve made your decision.
Not that it’s easy choosing between people you love. Or alternately, are related to.
And Horses.
For Horses, I recommend bypassing the (usual) napalm! stage, and moving straight on to the Targeted Nuclear Strike.
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Hi, Giliell! I’m glad you’re having fun!
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Tony!, your blogging is very useful—it gives me a quick’n’easy crop of links to pass on; Inaji‘s blog is another such source. Call me lazy, but I say it’s an efficient way of condensing and re-sending the signal.
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carlie, I was only marginally aware that anything was going on, at the time.
In my defense, in ’63 (the year of the March on Washington), I was five, which would make me ten in ’68 (King’s assassination).
In our house, it didn’t get any air-time; that was reserved for Vietnam, where my daddy was spending an awful lot of his time (4 tours).
As I mentioned over at Tony!‘s blog, I’m curious as to where the ’60s era Civil Rights warriors, who’re in the right age group to be disproportionately on the Right, are now. What are they thinking/doing? Shaking their heads in despair that it seems to have been all for nothing? Considering today’s protesters damned fools, because they are now “older and wiser”, and regret their youthful stance? Other?
–
*hugs* for Portia.
–
The world is too scary. I’m just going to refill the basket of hugs and add some dark chocolate to the sweets trolley. Help yourselves.
I’m going back to the bead embroidery project that never ends (which is my fault, because I keep adding bits here and redoing bits there) and my random reread of various Discworld books.
Portia:
I thought about you earlier today. I took a stroll down to the convenience store and passed the local fire station. I kept hearing a sound similar to someone bouncing a basketball and looked around for the source of the sound. Turns out it was a firefighter who was using what looked like a sledgehammer to pound away at what looked like a rather large tire (industrial tractor sized tire). Had no idea what the purpose was, but it made me think of you.
Portia, all the hugs. E-mail incoming in a little while. It’s been A Day for me, too; MyMouse’s mother died this evening, after an endless battle with cancer (she was diagnosed as Stage 4 stomach cancer three years ago, and had been in so much pain recently that she was hallucinating constantly from it and the pain meds both). She got here on Monday morning, and now she’s headed back to Baltimore tomorrow night. Not sure whether she’s taking me along or not. MM’s having mixed feelings about it; her mother was, as they say, “a real piece of work”, and had been very abusive (physically and emotionally) to MM throughout her childhood and teenage years. But still, her mother, y’know?
So yeah. Been that kind of night. We also had people over tonight for gaming – she got the call literally as we were setting up for Arkham Horror (we won, beating Azathoth). She decided to play the game anyway, and then she watched while we played Firefly (I won one, finally; and we were right about it going much faster when all the players know the game, as our three-player game took 1:20 all told).
Now we’re hanging out and watching Korra’s third season, which I quite liked. Also recently binged Agents of Shield and Almost Human, both of which I enjoyed, but the latter’s been cancelled, so Fox shitcans another decent sf show after 13 episodes. :/
So that was my day.
Oh, and a piece of music I discovered today that I really enjoyed:
Princesa Diamante, by Henrique Lemes (Brazilian Portuguese). Lemes was a winner on Idolos, the Brazilian version of $COUNTRY Idol. I doubt I’d like it as much if I knew the meaning of the words – the little bits I could pick out seemed to be snarking at her performance of femininity, with lots of references to designers like Versace and Chanel, if I understood them right – but the music made me happy, I always like bouncy-ska type music.
Tony!
Strength training. Really good for your core strength, as long as you can lift the damned hammer.
jste:
Oh, ok. That makes sense. Thank you!
****
CaitieCat:
My condolences and sympathies to you and Mouse.
Morgan
That’s a really nice thing to say, thank you. I have to work to have a healthy balance of emotional …whatever. So I don’t Vulcan all over everyone around me. And it’s good to see you too. *hugs*
Tony:
Thanks. Added on top of my pile is losing two clients last week. Losing as in they passed away, not as in they hired another lawyer. One was 17. I’m still trying to deal with that.
Avo:
Sadly, I’m dealing with people I love very much, that I happen to be related to. My mom is blessedly not even mentioning the whole thing to me. Which is weird, usually my brother is the one with the healthy sense of boundaries. My sister says he sees himself as saving us. And he has been using religious language…so very weird. Thanks for the commiseration. Family tension is never easy. But you’re right, there is comfort in having made a decision. I just have to tell him about it tomorrow and then he gets to make his own decisions.
cicely:
*kitty pouncehug* :)
Tony, later: It makes me smile that you thought of me. If I had to guess, I’d bet that was practice at swinging the sledge. Angle, intensity, etc, are good to have gauged when you really go swinging at a wall.
Cait:
Oh, so many hugs coming back your way. It’s so hard to deal with death, and it’s that much more difficult, I think, when there’s a strained (to say the least) relationship. I hope MM comes through it okay, I’m glad she has you for support. If you travel to Baltimore, I hope you can do so without much discomfort/pain.
Portia, I’m thinking about you. The family situation, especially, sounds like a long-term recipe for difficulty.
Thank you, CD. That’s my fear.
How are you?
*gentlefluffyhugs*
I feel so. stupid.
I was cat-sitting for two weeks, for my parents, and this last weekend, I “lost” Gracie.
Cue panic, because we ALL love that chatty little brat.
Sunday, my sister and her husband came over (apparently to do laundry), and when they opened the door, there she was.
It turns out she’d gotten in to the (big) house that Friday, and had been right there the whole time.
And where was the one place I didn’t look because it was “too obvious”?
The big house.
I swear, I’m dumber than a box of rocks sometimes.
Hello lounge – safe hugs to all. I am a little drained after reading the Ferguson threads – hell, it’s a beautiful winters day; mild, blue sky. A universe away from Ferguson but I still feel drained. I have no idea how those closer can be handling this.
Special hello to Portia because I haven’t had a chance to say hello in such a long time. :)
WMDKitty:
I know that feel, boy do I know that feel. Glad the kitty is accounted for:)
gobi:
Hey, hello, good to see you too. :) I’ve been AWOL from the Lounge myself for a while recently (yay for vacation!) Hope you can recuperate and do some self care.
I’m alright. I got a chance to see ceesays today! We had breakfast together after picking ceesays up from the train station. [Hi, ceesays!]
I’m afraid I was feeling under the weather b/c if I had taken my pain pills I would have slept through breakfast, but ceesays was good company.
How lovely: )
Hope you got to a circumstance where you could nap away while on the pain pills.
Portia:
I meant to ask-how was your vacation? Did you go anywhere in particular?
****
gobi’s:
Good to see you around these parts again.
****
WMDKitty:
When I saw
I somehow missed the quotes, so I thought something horrible had happened to Gracie and my heart sank. I’m glad she’s ok.
****
Speaking of cats, my other cat, Cassie, has some sort of skin irritation. I’ve bathed her once or twice in the last few months, thinking that would get rid of whatever was irritating her skin. That didn’t work. I’ve given her flea treatment and that didn’t do anything. I comb her often enough that I know she isn’t covered in fleas. But she’s scratching around her neck and nibbling her backside so often. I can see how red her skin is, and I just don’t know what to do. I guess I have to wait until I start making money at work so I can take her to a vet, but it tears me up thinking she’s in pain or discomfort right now and I’m powerless to do anything about it.
****
I know many of you asked for it, so because of that, I present to you- the comic book sequel to
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Prometheus!
(neat, that worked)
Crip Dyke:
You met ceesays? How awesome! I remember you mentioning that you would like to meet her, so I’m glad that you two were able to make it happen.
Tony:
I’m at my mom’s right now, in Michigan (I never go anywhere but Michigan, pretty much, ha). We were at a lake cottage over the weekend. I’m going to stay at my dad’s tomorrow night. (For the first time since I was a kid, my parents once again live in the same town. The town I was born in, as a matter of fact). Then Thursday we might go to Lake Michigan, spend some time at the beach. It’s weird, I feel guilty for not doing more exciting things with my time off, but damn it feels good to do next to nothing. Today my sister suggested a picnic at the playground. So me, Sis, BiL, nephew, and mom went and had a lovely picnic and then chased 4 y/o nephew around the impressive playground. They built in when I was his age, and it is sort of a giant wooden castle more than a normal playground. His joy was just infectious and delightful. We played tag til none of us grownups could move anymore:)
Tony! – aaarrrgghh Prometheus!
We have a movie rating system: is it as bad as Prometheus? Because nothing is as bad as Highlander 2. :)
Hope you are holding up ok keeping track of Ferguson.
Tony!
Could it be allergies? Have you changed her food or anything recently? If she isn’t too finicky, you might want to try another kind of food in case she’s developed a food allergy (grain free cat food is less likely to cause allergies). I hope she starts feeling better soon.
I just wanted to say thanks to P.Z. and all of you for opening my eyes to feminism. I used to be one of those “nice guys.”
When I first discovered Pharyngula, I was a devout Catholic, but politically liberal. I wanted to see if I could find a place where I could kindly state my brilliant, optimistic theology that no Atheist could dismiss. After reading a few entries and the comments, I never bothered. I’d been outclassed. And eventually shed my faith.
But, lately, I’ve found that my awakening to feminism was much more significant. After all, I’ve only ever been a man and my feelings were Important. Now I see pathetic men fearing their inevitable loss of privilege and lashing out like trapped rats as their insecurities are exposed. It’s horrific and makes me sad for our society. But that’s the present and we’re all working to improve the future. And while I’m lucky to have male friends who also side with the proverbial angels, I have been and will continue to call out every guy I hang out with for every shitty, misogynistic thing they say.
I’m sorry if this came off as self congratulatory. I mean it when I say thank you.
Presumably doesn’t apply to police. (Or to politicians or their owners / largest donors.) It be really silly to apply to a goon not wearing a badge or other identification, someone might be able to identify the shooter / assaulting officer, and we can’t have that now, can we?
Stan Ferguson:
I’m not very active in other threads, so I can’t take any credit for your “awakening”. But thank you for saying it. I speak only for myself, but it really encourages me when people (mainly men) talk about their deconversion from all that crap. I’m tired. You’re more eloquent than I am. But that bit about calling out other men? That’s gold, right there. Thanks for doing that and thanks for saying that. Makes me smile. It’s my goal in talking to men who are on their way to realizing what impact they can make. It’s what I say when I hear “Well, what are you going to do about it, sexists will always be sexist, you can make them not think sexist things.”
tl;dr
Yay:)
Stan Ferguson
Welcome in.
There’s grog somewhere.
Still haven’t worked out what to do with the wasabi yet, eh?
Hint: It’s not shampoo. Not even for trebuchet ammunition.
</snark>Portia:
I’m glad you’re having fun. I don’t think you should feel guilty about doing anything more exciting. This is your vacation. You’re spending it how you want to, and that’s all that matters.
****
gobi’s:
Oooooh, Highlander 2. I’ve only seen that once. Shortly after I first watched the original, which has a cult classic feel. It was incredibly jarring watching the sequel compared to the original. Isn’t it considered one of the worst movies of all time (worse, in some ways than Plan 9 From Outer Space)?
__
I’m holding up fine. There are days I feel not so frustrated and days when I do feel really frustrated. The day I wrote that comment about the impact of Ferguson as I see it on my life (one of the ways it impacts me) was a day when the various stresses in my life (big and small) came crashing down all at once. That was before I knew about landing my job, and was in the wake of being jobless for more than 2 months. Plus, my being single and lonely really gets me down sometimes* (it shouldn’t, I know. I shouldn’t place so much stock in finding someone, but I can’t change how much I desire it.) and that played into my frustration. Add in being constantly broke, stuck at home, very little ability to socialize with people, being tired of living in Florida, and a few other things, and it was a horrible confluence of events. Between all of that, and the shit in Ferguson, as well as the reaction of various racists and trolls, I just needed a release. It was one of those rare times when I just wanted to scream at the universe…which I guess I pretty much did.
*I’m very casually talking to someone right now, which is far more than I’ve had in a long time, so I’m happy for that. At the point I wrote that comment though, I wasn’t talking to anyone.
blf:
I know you were trying to be funny, but please don’t. I don’t find this situation to be a laughing matter.
toska:
Hmm, I didn’t think of that. Given my financial problems over the last few months, there were a few times I had to buy different cat food, and usually the cheapest I could find, so they would have something to eat. Perhaps that’s it. Of course I’ve been feeding the same thing for about a month now and there’s no change.
I guess I won’t know anything until I take her to vet, whenever that is.
Thank you for offering your thoughts on the matter.
Highlander 2 – I watched it less than a year ago. The sorry event started off with the question: ‘ could it really have been that bad? ‘
Afterwards, the puppetmistress seriously wanted to snap the disc in two. I didn’t let her – I still paid five bucks for it, and besides, we now have a benchmark for badness.
Stan Ferguson:
1- Welcome to the Lounge
2- Thank you!
This really, really put a smile to my face. The fact that you’ve not only shed your faith, but you’ve embraced feminism (the latter being far more important, IMO than the former)? You’ve decided to do your part to help make the world better for others…that’s awesome. Far too often, we get people coming through here that refuse to check their privilege, or demonstrate just a bit of empathy. Especially in the last 10 days or so, things have been kinda tough. It’s so incredible to know that this environment, that I cherish so much, has helped another person in their journey to becoming a more compassionate, empathetic, caring person…it’s just a really great thing.
‘Scuse me. I have something in both my eyes.
Thank you for sharing your story with us and I hope you’ll stick around.
(also, while we’re not keeping score or anything, some of the trolls and anti-feminists who come through here are constantly talking about how PZ’s actions, or the commentariat here are driving people away, so it’s nice to hear people say the opposite)
Tony!
I hear you on the financial troubles. It’s been a rough summer for me financially, and I’ve had two emergency trips to the vet. It makes me wish that our income didn’t determine what kind of medical care (if any) and what quality of food our pets receive. But, we haven’t even reached that point with humans yet, so I don’t think I’ll see a day when that’s a reality. Best wishes to you and your cats.
Stan Ferguson
My awakening to feminism (and other social justice issues) was also much more life changing than my deconversion to atheism, though the two were quite connected. I’m glad you made it over to this side, and thank you for helping to call out sexism when you see it!
One last thing before I go to sleep. I know we have a lot of creative people in here. Whether it’s knitting or photography or drawing or embroidery, many of the people here have an interest in various forms of art, so I thought this might be of interest:
I hope everyone has a good
nightmorningwhatever time of day it is where you are.Stan Ferguson – no cookies for you, but my respect. It’s not an easy thing to recognize and start to work against one’s own privilege, and I’m glad you’re on our side in the struggle.
Without (ahem) pointing to anyone in particular (no one who posts in the Lounge regularly, anyway!), I thought this was a really good sign for the fight against cissexism: Fund Texas Women changes name to Fund Texas Choice, so as to stop denying the existence of trans people. Funny how easy that is, huh? For some people, anyway. ;)
Pretty ‘rupt
*hugs* all round.
Good morning,
CaitieCat,
I’m sorry for your and MyMouse’s loss.
——-
Hello, Stan!
—
Portia,
I’m sorry about the family situation.
It doesn’t matter if vacation time isn’t exciting, as long as you are enjoying yourself and resting. That’s my view, and I’m practicing it on my vacation too (I really looked forward to it, and needed it after some hard months at work, but dad has a talent for ruining any enjoyment ever anywhere so I’m holding thumbs he’s a bit nicer just for a couple of days).
The most exciting thing I intend to do is maybe look up a one-day trip to somewhere nearby, to take mom somewhere nice for a bit of sightseeing (really, just some change from “every day” will make her happy).
Things I have:
-several picked eggplants that need to be used up
-three large zucchini variants, that were on the verge of going bad, so I cubed and oven-roasted them, basted from a (1-1) mixture of concentrated curry-paste-kinda-deal and milk
-3-4 small poblano chilis, similarly basted and roasted
-around 1 dozen oven dried tomatoes, roasted but not basted
-thai basil
-jarred crushed ginger
-the rest of the curry-paste-deal-and-milk
-red onions
-rice
-other seasonings (including some “Asian” things like sesame oil and hoisin sauce) and a basic grocery store with several (*sigh*) “ethnic” aisles literally across the street
Ideas I have:
-something something curry kinda thing
From a preliminary recipe search, I think I’m going to have to wing this one. Any (serious only, plz) particular suggestions, or pitfalls to avoid? O.o
(Addendum: non-flesh, and I am in fact planning to get coconut milk tomorrow).
*hugs* for CaitieCat, Portia, extras for everyone else.
Azkyroth
Whatever you get out of that, it sounds like it could be delicious.
Tony! I’m sorry about the worry over Cassie, and I hope she’s ok and you will be able to get her checked out before too long now. And Thank You – you and Inaji and rq and everybody – for everything you’re doing in the Ferguson threads.
Stan Ferguson, that’s good to read and it’s a pleasure to meet you. As Portia said, it’s extremely valuable when men doing and saying sexist shit hear it called out by other men, by people whom they identify as “one-of-us”; the dynamic is different in so many ways from hearing it called out by women, and both are vital.
Portia, it’s great to see you again. And I hope you are able to keep both your mother and your brother in your life. Sounds like a very fraught situation :-( (and on top of chaos at work? /o\ )
CaitieCat, all my sympathies to MyMouse and to all of you in her family. I have no idea if this is relevant and I hope it’s not impertinent – if MM has some flashes of waaay varied feelings in there, such as anger or even vengeful joy or anything, she shouldn’t feel guilty about that. The death of someone important but with whom one had a fucked-up relationship can be so incredibly complicated and tied-in-knots … sometimes you mourn the relationship you should have had more than the person they actually were/became … and having been deprived of that should-have-been can be very angry-making. Please, please ignore this and I apologise if it is impertinent and way off the mark; I’m kind of riffing off things in my past and wishing you all to get through this at least without feeling guilty about any of your own feelings, whatever they may be. If that makes any sense at all.
RQ:
“Hello, annie55 and welcome in! Please fill out the following membership questionnaire, outlining your views on:”
1) Horses? For them.
2) peas? Grow them
3) cheese? Black Diamond White Chedder
Some might ask you about Miracle Whip, too, so I suggest you prepare a few answers. ;)
A) Satan’s Mayo
B) Noxious substance known to ruin potato salad recipes
C) Kink lube emergency substitute
Hello Lounge. Today’s offerings.
Dance of the BonkBonkBonkBonk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6QWsMYHIEc
Music from DotBBB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aINFvGESX8I
Baby River Otter Makes Happy Noises
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GyhFsJoiYc
@ timgueguen
I had a cat similar to that but lighter. For a little while anyway. My wife and I domesticated a feral adult and kitten and the kitten looked like this. After fixing, shots and socialization we found her a home. I finally found out what she was,
http://www.siamesecatspot.com/lynx-and-tortie-point-siamese-cats/
@ Esteleth is Groot
I can sympathize. My family is military conservative protestant tea party type. To be fair I’m the one who decided that bringing up the Ferguson situation on Facebook deserved f-bombs directed at various parts of society. But if they are going to literally ignore everything on the page but four letters I’m going to take full rhetorical advantage of it.
@ Portia
I’m sorry to hear about your work and family trouble Portia. I hope everything improves.
@CaitieCat
My best wishes to you and your family. I hope everything is as well as can be.
@WMDKitty
At least you found her! That feeling is familiar.
@Crip Dyke
That sound like fun. How are things medically? Going well I hope.
@Tony
I found this.
http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/cat-care/skin-problems
It might be seasonal allergies as well. But you can try writing down what you feed her and watch to see if things get better or worse. I’m trying to correlate my cats periodic irritable bowel syndrome to food. It’s not a pretty situation.
@Stan Ferguson
Hi Stan! Welcome!
It’s a hard thing emerging from a culture that you did not realize was warping how you viewed everything. I can sympathize. It’s also a hard thing realizing that the effort to understand and fix the problems of both sexes are mostly being treated seriously by social groups affiliated with one sex. I’ve often told those pathetic men that it would be entirely possible to have a male version of feminism if only they would focus on understanding and fixing the social structures creating those problems instead of attacking and blaming women/feminists as a group while they try to do that job. It could technically be possible to be a feminist and a male version of feminist if only there were a group that could take a hard look at our social structures and did not treat the whole thing like a zero-sum game that required “destroying the opposition”. Until I can have both I’ll side with the ones treating this problem seriously.
Any Vin Diesel fans in the room?
Pteryxx
I’m going to spell it out for you: eye zed ay enn dee ay at google email services should get to me.
(By the way, if Hekuni Cat is around, you’re free to use that address, too, it’s a bit easier than my hotmail address. Most of you are, actually. All of you.)
rq – just email me at my gee mail thingy, would you? My nym at. I’ll reply.
Or that.
Reminder to regulars – monitors may get overwhelmed with the number of fast-moving threads, so consider using the Contact link in the sidebar to report directly where a discussion (or troll) becomes too toxic.
@rq, 72:
I’m just guessing, but i think there are more Vin Diesel fans after that photo than before…
@brony, 71:
It was good. Not quite fun, as I was too under slept to be much fun for anyone, but I was really happy to meet ceesays and we had a good breakfast and chat. Ceesays had to carry the conversational load, but did admirably in that respect until we got to the breakfast joint. Tired /sore is one thing. Tired/sore and having to pay attention to driving in rush hour so you don’t kill a new friend is something else again.
Medically I seem to be doing fine. For the first time last night my shoulder’s imposed immobility was bothering me enough that I stretched it intentionally despite the pain in my ribs…because the pain wasn’t enough to stop me. That’s good, right? And I only took one dose to sleep last night. I didn’t take a new one in the middle of the night when 4-6 hours had expired. That’s good too. I took a dose this morning, but I’m hoping not to take another til bed tonight, meaning most of the day will be spent off narcotics. If that works for me, I’ll be quite happy.
We’re going camping this weekend, and I might need some extra narcotics then (sleeping on the ground with a thin mat isn’t ideal). But I was prescribed enough that that should be fine. it’s healing at the early end of their predictions (they said I would need narcotics during the day for 7-10 days …that was 6.5 days ago). No complications. So all seems good.
@Stan Ferguson:
Welcome! Pharyngula has helped me learn plenty. Glad it helps others, too. Enjoy your stay. Don’t over imbibe on the grog.
oh, what am I saying? USB grog is made for over indulgence!
Did I miss welcoming Stan Ferguson???
I did!
Standard three, Stan:
Your opinion on (1) horses; (2) cats; (3) cheese. See, we have to figure out where in the hivemind you’ll fit.
(Grog’s over thataway, but I hear chigau has rum. Tea and cookies usually available, too, but nobody shares their coffee (that I’ve heard of), so you’re on your own there.)
For entertainment (?), Dawkins puts his foot in it, again.
Must be Wednesday.
Hello! wifi at my incredibly cheap hotel is terrible, so I had to wander up to the library to get signal.
we did indeed have a nice breakfast at a cafe I hadn’t been to in years, and I got my first cup of coffee in hours. We had a pretty good conversation, and then I wandered around downtown Vancouver until it was time to check in.
The room, though. the room it is TINY. only one bed, but i knew that going in, and the smallest bathroom I have EVER seen, even with a walk in shower. But the fridge in the room was empty, so we can keep juice and such. The tv is in the most hilarious spot in the room, but that’s okay, we’re not here to watch tv.
the room is hot and the air conditioner is incredibly noisy, but the location is quite good. I expect we’ll wander up to stanley park today.
CaitieCat, *hugs* and sympathies for you and YourMouse.
And Fuck Cancer.
–
*additional hugs* for Portia.
Rains -> pours….
–
*scritches* for WMDKitty. Glad that Gracie-kitteh was found—hopefully without harm, other than to her dignity.
–
*hug* for gobi’s sp mp. Yeah, reading about Ferguson is certainly draining, and depressing, to keep up with. Special kudos for those who’re compiling useful and informative link-dumps; that must be especially draining and depressing.
(A Wee Bit Later)
The Husband and I use a Lou Ferrigno movie that we call “Hercules on the Moon” as our Standard of Movie Suckage.
:)
–
Welcome In, Stan Ferguson!
:)
And thank you, for adding a bit of Positive to my day.
:) :)
–
*hug* for Dalillama. How’re you doing?
–
opposablethumbs:
This.
–
Ooooh, wrong answers, annie55, on all counts!
I’m afraid it’s the Horsepond for you!
Well…I might let you slide on the white cheddar.
;)
–
Crip Dyke @77
And that photo ends at such a tantalizing point…
Huffpo jumps the shark. Even though the shark is above their heads.
“4 Reasons God Might Be Too Busy to Answer Your Prayers” – links to the above.
About racism in porn: the fear of miscegenation doesn’t start at conception. Video, but most likely safe for American workplaces.
“‘Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich’” – not related to the above, but instead about “How Apple Sidesteps Billions in Taxes“, of course imitated by many other companies nowadays. From the second of the five pages:
>>
The sums paid by Apple and other tech corporations is a point of contention in the company’s backyard.
A mile and a half from Apple’s Cupertino headquarters is De Anza College, a community college that Steve Wozniak, one of Apple’s founders, attended from 1969 to 1974. Because of California’s state budget crisis, De Anza has cut more than a thousand courses and 8 percent of its faculty since 2008.
Now, De Anza faces a budget gap so large that it is confronting a “death spiral,” the school’s president, Brian Murphy, wrote to the faculty in January. Apple, of course, is not responsible for the state’s financial shortfall, which has numerous causes. But the company’s tax policies are seen by officials like Mr. Murphy as symptomatic of why the crisis exists.
“I just don’t understand it,” he said in an interview. “I’ll bet every person at Apple has a connection to De Anza. Their kids swim in our pool. Their cousins take classes here. They drive past it every day, for Pete’s sake.
“But then they do everything they can to pay as few taxes as possible.”
<<
Also check out the last (5th) page, which describes the best democracy money can buy.
It’s highly suspicious that you “forgot” about the peas!!!1!
David
Good non-existent gods, you have caught me in the act of omitting peas!!!
WHAT WAS I THINKING???
*shakes fists wildly*
Stan Ferguson
Please adjust the test question accordingly; the second one should read “(2) peas;”, not cats.
@ Crip Dyke
It sounds like good news to me so far. More mobility with the same pain level or little more is probably a good sign. I was not here for the story about what happened to you? Is that something you can share?
@ rq 72
I like him as Riddick.
@ 78
I never got the questions. Were the sets switching when I came in?
@ 79
Honestly despite recent mistakes I have no problem with my side in this disagreement. I even agree with him on this issue, but wow that is a concerning problem empathizing with people making difficult decisions in a culture that applies pressure in ways he can’t seem to underestand. I have seen people over here respond to discoveries that they were being hurtful towards people with little social power, but he is remarkably insensitive to what other people experience.
@ ceesays
I hope you have fun!
I forgot to say, about Highlander 2 v Plan 9 from Outer Space:
There is that phenomenon of so-bad-its-good. For me (though not for some people who unfortunately had to sit through it with me because a promise is a promise) Zorro the Gay Blade is so-bad-its-good. Plan 9 from Outer Space is so bad it’s completely impossible to take seriously in any way except as people who really, really wanted to make science fiction and just did it for the love of doing it while entirely lacking, y’know, a merciful appreciation of how it might affect an audience. While not all the actors come across as having fun, you really can’t see any reason for making the damn film except having fun. No one involved could possibly have had any illusions of creating art, or of making money.
Highlander 2 was made as a sequel to a popular movie, a cult hit. They clearly did have expectations of making money. You can’t laugh and think, “Oh, FSM, at least they loved doing this!” Nope. This was business, and as a business decision, thinking that they were making something that would appeal to those who enjoyed Highlander shows an insulting opinion of Highlander’s audience. Every horrible thing in the movie instead of being, “At least they had fun,” becomes, “They thought I would LIKE this?” It’s not good enough to laugh with. It’s not bad enough to laugh at. And the horribleness itself, at every turn, is a true insult to the viewer…at least if the viewer even marginally enjoyed Highlander.
Worst movie. Worst sequel. That thing was horrid.
Brony
You never got the questions?
I have been shirking.
Well, might as well fill out the paperwork now. Your opinion, please, on: (1) horses; (2) peas and (3) cheese. Thank you, sign here, welcome to the hivemind. :)
Crip Dyke, glad to hear the pain of your injury seems to be juuust about starting to ease up a little – and that you were able to make the meeting! Good luck with the camping expedition, hope you’re able to sleep ok with the ribs.
.
weeeellll …. I tend to lean more towards, say, the likes of Callum Kieth Rennie. But if anything was going to make me reconsider Vin Diesel, then that photo would be a strong contender :-)
“American Family Association: Michael Brown ‘tanked up’ on pot, probably went ‘berserk’” – what did you expect, it’s got “Family” in its name.
“Police to Al Jazeera: ‘I’ll bust your head right here’” – “They don’t see it as a mission to restore public safety, they see it as a mission to quell an insurrection against them. And the “rioters,” the people in the neighborhoods who are fed up, understand this too. They understand this much better than the reporters do, or the photographers, or anyone else.”
“Let’s Not Let This Get Buried: Deported Children Being Killed After Being Sent Back.”
“Feds can’t sell booby-trapped property of terrorist tax evaders” – I thought the article was going to be funny, but nope.
Opinion on cats: happiness is a warm cat. =^_^=
I managed to overlook this one:
“Obamacare fades from GOP’s 2014 campaign playbook“; with link to McConnell insulting everyone’s intelligence.
At least you weren’t emitting peas.
Something like that… *whistling*
Re Vin Diesel: I just hope someone publishes a story of his life entitled “Bio Diesel.” :P
(1) horses
Obviously small, colorful, friendly and archetypical.
(2) peas
Great in chipped beef on toast. OK on their own with butter or in salads. Oddly I’m a fan of turnips and beets when it comes the the non-fruit healthier class and those are not too common so I’m usually a spinach salad guy.
(3) cheese
In nearly every form possible including the paste injected into Combos.
just for the heck of it
(4) cats
Pets for people that like complicated interactions. You have to earn their affection and obedience. I have three, formerly four.
@ David Marjanović 83
Hey now! Be nice to the almighty. He’s clearly trying to get some “alone time” there and that can’t be easy with all the people constantly badgering him for solutions to their problems.
‘Chipped beef’?
cicely:
I think we’re losing out. Far too many pea lovers.
We even have people joking about ::emitting peas:: (eyeing Azkyroth), which minimizes the impact of the dastardly veggies. We’ve got to step up our efforts to squash all peas.
rq,
I’m sick of Dawkins. I don’t care what “great things” he did for atheism, or whatever, I just want him to quietly fade into obscurity.
Tony!
Chipped beef is salted, air-dried beef, typically sliced thin before serving. In the dish to which Brony refers, creamed chipped beef on toast (aka Shit on a Shingle), consists of slivered or grated chipped beef in a cream sauce served, as the name implies, on a slice of toasted bread.
cicely
Meh. Temperatures are high, and so’s the rent, wages are low and so are hours. My brain is slow and all the news is depressing.
@ Tony
Poor family military food cultural tradition. Based on something they called “shit on a shingle” in the Navy via my grandfather.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipped_beef
It’s basically cheap, pressed, beef sliced up.
Oh noes! What’s a country girl with rescued horses and cats (and dogs) and a sustenance veggie garden to do?
I am however, standing my ground on the cheese. We do not get Tillamookout here so Black Diamond it is!
annie55
Never fear, there are horse-lovers on your side!
I’m sure Lynna knows more about this, but this Mormon madness is a mental mystery to me:
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/08/young-restless-and-preaching-mormon/378760/
It’s that last paragraph, which I’ve bolded, that stood out to me in this article. Especially the part where you have to wake your companion if you need to poop or pee in the middle of the night. I think about all the times I’ve woken in the night. Often to pee. Sometimes to check on a strange noise. Sometimes I’m thirsty.
If I were a Mormon on a mission, I’d have to have my designated companion with me at all times (at least they stand outside the bathroom, instead of right there with you; although if you just took a fierce poop, they probably won’t like the stench when the door opens). This idea that satan lurks behind every corner, in every crack and crevice…it’s just utterly foreign to me. It sounds like Mormons would be scared *everywhere* they go.
I also wonder what happens to the companion after the missionaries are done with their work. Are Mormons supposed to get married after they come back from their missions, so that they can have their spouse constantly watch their backs? Do wives and husbands have to wake one another in the middle of the night to get a piece of popcorn out of their teeth?*
This shit is whack.**
It’s also bizarre. The purpose of the companion is to help prevent satan from influencing your buddy.
I’ve watched Supernatural and Buffy. I know these demons are powerful. It takes people with a great deal of physical or supernatural power, access to mystical weapons or books of immense power, and years of skill battling demons, vampires, and the forces of darkness before you’d be anywhere near capable of warding off the various dukes and lords of the nether realms.
You mean to tell me that two 19 year olds with no experience in all of that can protect each other from the prince of darkness?
That’s deeply stooooooooopid.
Then there’s the flip side of this. Supposedly normal, everyday humans are effective at battling satan. That makes me think he’s a big old weakling who can’t do anything (rather like god, who can’t heal amputees). Seriously, if a two 19 year olds can ward off satan, how powerful is he? How can he convert anyone to anything?
I guess this is one of those complex theological issues where satan is simultaneously supremely powerful, and weaker than Aunt May at once. Makes as much sense as the holy trinity, I guess.
*are they even allowed to eat popcorn?
**I’ve been reading too much ‘Yo! Is this racist?’ lately
Thread-rupt and kinda drunk (don’t ask). Had “lunch” (drunkenness source) with a friend who is more conservative than myself. Ferguson came up. Friend and I agree on sadness for the Ferguson community. Split on whose responsibility it is going forward. (She thinks the people need to calm down and let the system work, I think the cops need to calm down and McColloch needs to step aside.)
Friend gave monologue about said Ferguson stuff. I waited, then politely disagreed with “I fall on the liberal end of things…”
Poo poopoo…but it got me thinking about the discourse I’ve been having with folks about this. Many old white folks I know have used the phrase “the blacks.” I find it kinda grating, but I can’t even explain why. I say “black people” far more than I use the phrase “African American” (chalk it up to syllabic laziness?) but the subtle difference between “black people” and “the blacks” bugs me. (Oh, I’m white, if you haven’t guessed by now.) Like “The Blacks” is another species or something, maybe? But then, am I also wrong? I rarely have an opportunity to talk to folks other than my whitey circle, so how would I know if I’m being a grammatic ass?
Should my awareness of my privilege lead me to more compassion and understanding, or will it just hinder my ability to understand the common thread we all share???
Or, –here’s the kicker– I just read over what I wrote, and dammit, it isn’t about me. But then, how can I contribute to a solution if I can’t identify my own strengths and weaknesses?
I guess I’m just confused generally about my place in the world. Used to be (I’ve heard) that there were folks you could look to for guidance. Y’know…like heroes or something. But I guess the man behind the curtain is exposed.
Sorry. I am drunk and rambling. But hey–just to be silly and picky–is the phrase “black people” not cool?
annie55
Fellow horse (and all the other animals out there. All of them) lover over here! *waves*
@ Tony
Think about how regimented, specific, regular, and disciplined people going through military training need to be. That stuff all has a neutral psychological purpose (it’s the use of it and the self-awareness that can be a problem) and part of that is creating communal bonds and emotional interdependency for efficient execution of desired communal behaviors.
In this case I would say that this reinforces an instinct to allow one another to investigate details of personal conduct and daily routine. Something every religion is typically concerned with. It would be interesting to see if there are any exceptions.
awakeinmo:
I think it’s perfectly reasonable to be asking these questions. As a person of color, I use both “black people” and “African-American” and I have no problem with others using either term.
“The blacks” is an example of others to me. I don’t think I’ve heard of people saying “the whites” or “the asians” or “the hispanics”. I can’t quite explain the difference though. If I were a betting man, I’d say that Crip Dyke would have an explanation, or perhaps Dalillama.
Crap. Instead of
That should read
awakeinmo
I have a similar beef with people (usually older folks) who can’t grasp the difference between saying “People of Color” and “Colored People.” Maybe the difference is all semantics, but it’s important to use language that doesn’t dehumanize people, and even these slight differences in terms can make the difference between people feeling respected or marginalized. And that matters.
Well, no, but they CAN interrupt each other if they’re masturbating, which I assume is what this is really about.
Tony:
That’s it. Thanks. I’m kinda ashamed that I had to ask about such things, but…y’know…dumb white girl here.
And I’m drunk. And you know what? It feels good.
You know what else is good? You. I’m always impressed by your posts, and I really like that they often give me a perspective I don’t often get. Wanna “lunch” sometime? :)
To me it feels like “the blacks” implies a monolithic, homogeneous entity, too, rather than a group of people who have a particular set of physical features and cultural histories in common.
toska:
Exactly.
Azkyroth:
Yup. My next question is, do I let it slide with old people who grew up with the phraseology? I usually clue my own parents in, because I know they don’t mean anything by it and they’re open to examining their beliefs. But it’s hard to “correct” people I don’t know…
I just lost the cap to the vodka bottle. Does that mean I have to finish it?
Also,
Maybe I should go back and read the thread…
Azkyroth:
I had not thought about this. Very good point.
****
awakeinmo:
You may be drunk, but you’re far from dumb.
Thank you for the kind words.
I must admit to not understanding “lunch” though.
Tony!:
Y’know…”lunch”…in liquid form…with alkyhol.
Oh, shit I just realized I could be construed as hitting on you. LOL. Sorry. (But to be clear, I’d be much more direct if I wanted that.)
@Tony! #105, who would win a lot of money, except you were betting on the favorite my good man, and awakeinmo #102.
For me, it comes down to this. When dealing with identifying someone by a single characteristic (or word for that characteristic), think about whether there is a socially sanctioned history of treating someone as less than human for having that characteristic.
If X people have been dehumanized for being X, then using X as a personal noun, where X is the sum total of what and who X people are, is problematic. While you might fully accept and support and advocate the full humanity of X people, the history of X and its treatment doesn’t allow people to know for sure whether you are being dismissive of their humanity.
There is no history of dehumanizing electricians for being electricians. Thus using “electricians” as a personal noun is not problematic.
There is a history of dehumanizing transsexual folk for being transsexual. Thus using “transsexuals” as a personal noun is problematic.
This is an opportunity for declaration: do you unconditionally support Black people as people? Then you have the power to declare that support by using “Black people” or “Black folk” or “Black electricians” – any formulation of Black as an adjective combined with a personal noun that has no history of dehumanization.
If you let this opportunity pass you by, then at worst you are wanting to invoke the dehumanization of historical blackness. Possibly you are reserving the right to invoke it. At best, you are using the phrase oblivious to the fact that others can’t trust that blackness as an all-encompassing representation of someone constitutes a representation of a fully human being.
To be unaware that Black folk can be hurt by the use of “blacks” as a personal noun is to be willfully ignorant. Willful ignorance isn’t pretty. And it sure as hell does nothing to oppose the racism that clearly still exists. If the best possible thing you can say about your choice of language is that it reflects willful ignorance, it’s probably time to change you language.
Moreover, you can’t be neutral on a moving train: while awakeinmo takes an opportunity for declaration to choose formulations constructed in opposition to historical racism, awakeinmo’s friends takes an opportunity for declaration to choose – for whatever reason, including ignorance – one of the express formulations of historical racism.
If friends want to choose to side with rather than against historical racism, it’s certainly their choice. But they shouldn’t be surprised if that choice affects whether others (and which others) side with them.
You can yourselves intuit how I feel about the use of “transsexual” as a noun.
*hugs* and ♥ to everyone, drunk or not!
rq
There are NOW. Damn.
(And I really don’t go for the muscular “hunk” type, either.)
awakeinmo:
That’s one of those assessment things each of us has to do on our own. I don’t think there’s a hard and fast rule. It would be great if we could call out all instances of sexism, racism, homophobia, or transphobia whenever and wherever they occur, but the reality is there are other concerns we have to weigh.
For instance, I’ve always worked in restaurants. For the last 15 years, I’ve been a bartender. The money I make depends to a great extent on how I interact with guests, so I try to keep from correcting people or calling them out on their language (it has happened before, but with guests I’m more familiar with).
I’ve done the opposite of that though, such as the time I expressed my support (in what I hope was a subtle way) for a mother breastfeeding her child in the restaurant. Or the time I expressed my dislike for people judging someone because they have false teeth. While I don’t always feel comfortable confronting guests and calling them out, I do feel more comfortable offering support to people.
That changes depending on the environment or the people I interact with. Many of the Tony Tales I’ve related before dealt with interactions with fellow employees and with them, I feel more comfortable calling out bad behaviors, although to an extent, because I have to work with them, I try to minimize how much I call out behavior, unless its egregious. I’ve called out people for making rape jokes before, but not by singling out an individual, but making the comment that “I don’t think rape jokes are funny”, which led to a nice discussion among the employees about the subject.
I think on average-for me-I’ve found it easier to be supportive in certain environments, like at work. I’ve not really been in a position to call people out that much (not since my awareness has been raised to the point that I understood why it is important to do so), because so much of my time in the last few years has been spent at work (I don’t have much of a social life, nor do I go out all that much-a result of not having a vehicle). I don’t think it will always be this way. I fully anticipate the day will come when I’ll be involved in conversations that will result in me correcting someone or calling them out. I just haven’t been in that situation much at this point. That doesn’t mean there aren’t things I can do, as I’ve pointed out. It just means there are *different* things I can do. No one is responsible for doing all of the things all of the time. You are the person in the best position to determine when and where you criticize, call out, correct, or support people.
Hope that rambling helps.
I guess that depends on you. Do you want to finish it? How much is left in the bottle? Do you have to operate a motor vehicle any time soon?
If you choose to save it, I say cover it in foil and put it in the freezer.
Welcome to new people in the Lounge! Don’t be frightened off by pea/horse/cheese questions. I am a filthy horse ridin’, pea eatin’ scoundrel and they haven’t kicked me out yet. Probably because I’m on a horse and they can’t catch me.
(As far as cheese goes, I once planned a trip to Switzerland entirely around different local cheeses. I never could afford the trip, but the big cheese vision board was the important part.)
Today I’ve made reverse chocolate chip cookies: white chocolate chips in a dark chocolate cookie. Now I’m probably going to get sick eating them, because daaaaaamn they are tasty.
So I am officially 2/3 done with nursing school!
I am now on vacation. Tomorrow I’m going to the SpokesGay’s, and from there we’re going to go veg out in a cabin in the woods on a lake.
I’m feeling self-indulgent, so I went out and got myself a gourmet hot dog (served on a sliced baguette) covered in cheddar cheese and bacon. I also got some home fries.
yay, Esteleth!
Yay, home fries!
Mellow Monkey:
Nah. It’s because, in spite of your pea eatin’, horse ridin’ ways, we think you’re pretty awesome. We like to keep the awesome people around.
O.o
That sounds interesting. If ever you feel the urge to elaborate, I’m all ears.
I’m not the biggest cheese fan in the world. Don’t get me wrong, I like cheese. I put it on lots of food. I just don’t care to eat it alone. In one of the many ways I’ve become like my father, I love a piece of cheese with a nice slice of specialty meat, perhaps on a Ritz cracker. Nom Nom. Now I want some.
OOOOOOOH
More NOM NOMiness!
****
Esteleth:
Woo Hoo!
Sounds awesome. I haz a jealous for you both. Can you give Josh a hug for me or even just a ‘hi’?
Oooooh, more tasty food.
Question: shouldn’t they be ‘vacation fries’? :)
I got a 95% on my psych exam.
In my research class, I nailed the “find a paper and present it” assignment.
The paper I did found ~shock~ that a bit of cultural sensitivity and a competent translator can go a long way to making immigrant patients feel comfortable seeking medical care.
Yes, someone had to study this.
Crip Dyke
I love your breakdown of “black people” vs. “the blacks.” Do you have any thoughts on PoC vs. Colored People? I’ve always thought it mostly had to do with the fact that “Colored People” is a relic of a time when people were more openly dehumanized by the color of their skin, so just hearing the term brings up that dehumanization. If you (or anyone else) has any other thoughts on it, I’d love to read them! It helps me to have lots of explanations on hand when I talk to people about why the language we use to describe people is important.
Crip Dyke:
Thanks.
I read (and will re-read) your post. It totally makes sense, tho it’s not stuff I’ve considered with my “front-brain” much. (Plus, did I mention I’m drunk?) I think I also need to get in the habit of examining more closely those things that just don’t “feel” right to me.
But for now, I think I’ll defile myself. No harm there.
Oh, and to the general Lounge Public: Y’all are great, and I’m just regretful that I don’t spend more time in here.
Tony! @119
Yeah…Thank you for your understanding. In my head, I want to be a stand-up human being who calls out crap on any perpetrator. But in reality, it’s hard. We have this primate social network thing that is difficult to poke at. Good insight into “calling out” versus “supporting.” It’s a good thing to keep in mind.
The first night in over two weeks where I’m not at the hospital/extended care facility feeding the Redhead. Her extended care facility is 40 minutes each way, about 21 miles distance. That makes every night just too much with rush hour traffic. And they start patching the last 1/3 main N/S road tomorrow.
So I’m back to Tuesday/Thursday during the week, and both days on the weekend.
So what are my plans for the evening? Some grog, dinner, and early to bed.
I briefly considered saying what I bought using the name of the item on the menu. But I figured people would be confused/disgruntled if I said that I bought a golden retriever for dinner.
Super quick reply to rq from the Fine Upstanding thread:
Turtles it is, with thanks! :) Turtles are awesome. Growing up there were desert box turtles in our back yard. During the late spring, summer, and early autumn months, when my family ate canteloupe, watermelon, or honeydew, we would set the rinds out in the back yard.
Sloooowly the turtles would appear, ambling gently, almost contemplatively (yes, I am aware this is anthropomorphization) and make their way to the rinds and eat the remaining fruit. Every year or two we would spot tiny new turtles joining the adults at the fruit rinds. They had beautiful shell patterns, and were a delight to observe. A lovely memory.
****
Hello, Lounge! This was just a quick burst to thank rq. Not ready for a huge round of catch-up just yet, so ducking back out, but hope you are well, and *hugs,* *clenched tentacle salutes,* and *supportive cheering* for them who so desire.
Still learning,
Robert
Congratulations, Esteleth! Woo!
—
Nerd, I hope you have a restful night.
—
toska @ 125
I don’t know exactly when the popularization of POC really took hold in the USA, but its use in English goes back a few hundred years. Gens de couleur (“people of color”) was used in French colonies as shorthand for the free people of color. These were primarily people of mixed ancestry and it was most definitely not a term for describing black people in general. It was translated and used in English at least as far back as the late eighteenth century.
I assumed that this was where the phrase in modern American usage came from, especially since POC doesn’t mean the same thing as “colored people” (which, AFAIK, was always used specifically about African Americans in the USA). POC is a statement of solidarity and describing a shared experience, rather than identifying a single group.
Poking around I found a NYT article from 1988, which cites the origins in French as well as use by MLK.
It’s a very…1988 New York Times article,
Today can bite me.
This morning started with holdover from 10:30 last night, when I realized there was a schedule error and one lab was overenrolled by 5 people. Then I went to get what I thought would be my tire remounted, but which turned out to be $350 worth of a brake job instead. Finally got to work, found out there was a second lab overenrolled by 5. Then there was a third overenrolled by 8. Spend most of the rest of the day figuring out which students could be moved where and how, and will still be above proper limits for each section, and had to hand part of the job off to someone else, which was rotten to do to them but they’re the only one who can access that info. And there were a half-dozen other things that would normally be important, but were side noise under the scheduling difficulties. Then, when I finally had that all figured out, it fluttered in my mind that at least all of this had kept my mind off of what today was, and then about 10 minutes later got reminded of it full-force as one of my best friends/colleagues stopped by to say goodbye for the last time, because today’s her last day in town before she moves out of state tomorrow. And then I thought I could at least go for a walk after work to get all the nervous energy of the day out, but there’s a huge storm rolling in (wunderground currently says “heavy rain mist”?)
So today can just fuck the hell right off. You suck, today. [/grumpy]
awakeinmo,
You ask the question for me as well…had a similar discussion with a more conservative but entirely sane friend who, like most country folk, used the term “black folks”… which didn’t bother me at all. (Whereas…”the blacks” would have had me on my high horse.)
And the point of the discussion was her confusion as to how a community of “mostly black folks” could have a nearly all white police force. Would like to find an analysis of how this came to be, because I do not understand either.
This is the chat thread and I am here to say I am a giant derp and hi~!
Wow, we’re getting a bunch of new folks in today.
Hello Xaivius and welcome to the Lounge. I’ve been happy to read your contributions to the various Ferguson threads.
As your friendly neighborhood bartender, can I serve you a tasty adult iBeverage?
****
carlie:
Sorry today has sucked so badly. Hopefully tomorrow will be better.
carlie:
Sorry. SNAFU.
The Mellow Monkey
Thanks for your thoughts!
^^This is really true. I wasn’t thinking about this. POC, in my experience, refers to any people without white privilege, and it is not at all an attempt to see them as a monolithic group. I think you’re right that “colored people” only really has a history of use with African Americans, and that’s the only context I’ve heard it. Even though the terms look similar, the different usages and histories associated with each, obviously, make a world of difference in how they are perceived.
Tony!(!):
Yeah, I’ve been getting progressively more fed up with drive by racists and racists that stick around to defend their racism, but enough about that. I’ll take a Tanqueray Rangpur Martini, dry.
Carlie:
bleh! And here I am worrying about dealing with the influx of students for our first week in Pullman! At least they USUALLY stay out of the labs here. Usually. Much <3.
@Tony
I realized at #104 that a simpler way of putting it would be that the psychological reality of ritual and routine is a thing to be respected. You can plug all sorts of social behavior in there and the shapes are interesting to consider on a raw general level. It’s one of the reasons why social change is so sensitive. We love our routines, or hate them…
@toska
Hello! I used to use a purple horse as an avatar while moderating so that is kind of funny to me. I miss getting to use pictures in conversations.
@Esteleth is Groot
Congrats!
@Nerd of Redhead
I hope it’s a happy night.
@Desert Son
Hello!
@carlie
I’m sorry to hear that! I hope that whoever is responsible for overenrolling your classes gets help responsible.
@Xaivius
Hello!
Wow, dunno why I was so worried about posting…nearly four years later. Wondering how many other “newbies” have actually been here for years, and are just now finding the voice.
Toska…”Puppy for President!”
@SallyStrange
From the Children thread.
hi there, fellow protestor! Funny we were both there (although I was barely there before having to leave).
annie55:
Oh, I’d say a lot. I know that many of the people who regularly comment-myself included-felt the same way you did. It took me a while before I felt comfortable commenting in here, and I had the same reaction you did after I started. That’s one reason I try to be as friendly and welcoming as possible, so that people see that this is a place for anyone to drop in and chat.
I can think of a few possible reasons….
Glad to have you aboard, though.
annie55
Yeah, me too. I’m new here in terms of commenting, but I lurked for about a year. This is partially because of my own social anxieties, but lurking first was a huge positive for me. I was able to learn a lot about the culture and language here before diving in.
It’d sure beat the alternative sometimes! :)
What, a bunch of newbies? *looks at tray with grog and swill for all concerned, along with popcornz and bacon sammiches* Have some…
I’m not a newbie, but can I snag a bacon sammitch?
awakeinmo
You can have my bacon sammich. I’ll stick with the popcorn.
toska, you’re real upstanding folk. (munch munch) I have a feeling we’re going to get along swimmingly (om nom nom).
What bacon sammich? *hands over a plate with bread and smells of bacon while looking over the shoulder at the Pullet Patrol nodding*
Okay…
*unabashedly licks plate of any bacon molecules*
Hi regulars! I’ve been lurking around for a bit and finally decided to post so HAI!!!!!
rabidwombat
Welcome! Wanna lick the bacon plate?
rabidwombat
Hi! I think you’re about to be asked some questions. Something about horses, peas, and cheese. In the mean time, hello! I’m toska, and I’m pretty new also. I delurked a week or two ago.
Thanks, everybody. I think I’ll just swoon dramatically into a chaise lounge and have a drink. ;) The fault lies with many people, one of which is eventually me for not catching it in the last couple of weeks, so such is life.
Xaivius, I have spent some time near you! Years ago I did field work in Moscow.
Of COURSE I want to lick the bacon plate! Mmmmmmmm….bacon.
off topic… is anyone on Daily Kos who can forward a message for me?
Checking in here at Tony!’s suggestion.
It has been great to join a forum where people discuss serious issues so intelligently.
awakeinmo:
Hmmm, you like bacon I see.
And you like vodka…
How do you feel about Bacon Vodka?
****
rabidwombat:
Welcome to the Lounge! If you’d like a drink, feel free to belly up to the iBar, where I’m finishing up a Tanqueray Rangpur Dry Martini for Xaivius.
rq is normally the one to pose the questionnaire, but she’s asleep I imagine.
What are your thoughts on:
1- peas
2-cheese
3-horses
optional #4-mayo
Carlie:
I actually just got assigned to the USDA-ARS unit in Pullman, so big changes for me in store! New city, new house, new SUPER LONG COMMUTE from the place I inherited from my dad this year. Thankfully telecommuting will be possible!
Well, hopefully my overwhelming love of cheese won’t be a problem…because I am NOT giving up my love of cheese. Thanks for the welcome!
Ah! Moskva! Prekrasny!
I don’t speak Russian. I just think I do.
Welcome Saad!
I don’t recall the last time we had an influx of new commenters in such a short time.
We have plenty of room in the Lounge. Welcome one and all. The bar is always open, there’s chairs for everyone (even a bean bag or two). If anyone like to get stoned, the room down the hallway with the vault like door is where that fun is going on (we try to make sure the smell doesn’t waft into the rest of the Lounge, as not everyone enjoys getting high). Olympic sized pool out back, along with a hot tub, which I’d soooooooo love right about now.
For those so inclined, the Pharyngula Saloon and Spanking Parlor (Patricia, Princess of Pullets, Proprietor), serves meatless pseudobacon sammiches for your consumption.
Tony!
Bacon…vodka?
Has such a thing crawled out of my dreams into this workaday world?
Saad:
I noticed a comic book reference in another thread. Art thou a fan?
Lets see, I love peas, and as I mentioned, my love of cheese is as deep and mysterious as the ocean. I also love horses, except for when they get all annoyed I’m riding them, and run under a low branch to knock me off. Uncool, horses!
As for mayo, I sometimes take my own jar of mayo places, because otherwise, there probably won’t be enough.
awakeinmo
Otlichno! It’s good to try speaking other languages anyway :)
Tony! #165
I’m sort of indirectly a fan. I know a lot of characters and general plots, but not the specifics. And I don’t know about current developments. My older brother was a huge fan of Marvel growing up (still is, just not as much) and I would often read comics with him and watch cartoons. We even did “episodes” where we’d create a plot and act it out with action figures. Haha, man. Serious nostalgia there. And this was all in Pakistan, so acquiring the comics and action figures was an adventure on its own.
For the longest time my favorite character was Colossus. It was heartbreaking to see him run into the Juggernaut at a bar and get his ass kicked all over the city.
You’re a fan? Which characters do you specifically like?
toska
I used to know some Italian phrases my grandpa taught me. But my mom asked me to stop using language like that.
awakeinmo:
If such a thing is to your liking, then YES, it has crawled out of your wildest imaginings to the real world.
I’ve tried it. It actually smells more like bacon than it tastes. To be honest I’m not sure what I’d drink it with. I was inclined to say a Bloody Mary, but a good BM (not bowel movement) has such great flavor that you won’t taste the bacon flavor of the vodka. It may work best as a shot. Or perhaps a shot with a hint of tabasco.
Oh, and if you think that’s amazing, you should see the wealth of flavors you can find for vodka these days. Everything from cotton candy and caramel, to dude (mountain dew flavor) and glazed donut, popcorn and amaretto, fruit loops and more. 3 Olives Brand vodka has some of the best flavors. Pinnacle has some of the most *bizarre* ones.
http://www.threeolives.com/
http://www.pinnaclevodka.com/age-gate
Tony,
I’m ashamed to admit the vodka I’m swilling now is…
glazed donut flavored.
The swill offered by the Pharyngula Saloon an Spanking Parlor can resemble any drink other than grog. Name your poison, and it will be served in clean/sterilized glass that is permanently “dirty”….
Saad:
At 38 (39 in December) I’ve been reading comics since I was 5 and collecting them since I was in my teens. A series of setbacks and a tragedy in the last few years has resulted in my not regularly buying comics (for over a decade I bought comics near religiously every Wednesday). Although I don’t currently read any comics (no money and my new job isn’t open yet, although I start training tomorrow), I do keep up with developments in the comic book world. My tastes are firmly in the realm of superheroes, with Marvel being my preferred company (DC’s last reboot in 2011 turned me off so much I’ve stopped buying anything from them). I’ve also liked Dark Horse comics, Boom!, Image, and other, smaller companies.
As for favorite characters-oh geez, I have plenty. Off the top of my head, I love Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers), Spectrum (a former Captain Marvel herself; Monica Rambeau), Luke Cage, Iron Fist and more.
At DC, I really like Wonder Woman. In fact, I recently reread the entire Greg Rucka run and was astonished. I’d read it before, but not through the lens of being a feminist. Rucka is an amazing writer who really got her character. He portrayed her as an empathetic, compassionate character who would rather use communication and diplomacy to achieve her goals, but if it became necessary, she would fight and fight to win. Her power level, combined with her fighting skills and weapons meant she was a force to be reckoned with. She was also a feminist icon. A woman who sought to empower other women and advocated equality and justice. For the longest time I thought she was a paradox. I thought ‘how could someone preach peace, but be a warrior’. I didn’t understand her character. Now I do, and now I *love* her. In fact, I’d have to say she’s my favorite comic book character. Which makes it all the more unfortunate that since the reboot in 2011, the feminist angle is gone, so too is the pursuit of equality and justice. Her Amazon sisters, instead of being an accomplished society of women who were skilled in a variety of areas, as well as incredible fighters, have now become a bunch of rapists. I deplore what they’ve made her into, as she comes off as just a warrior woman, and Wonder Woman is so much more than that.
That was longer than I’d intended…
I can go on at length sometimes.
Just got a call from the city, saying school starts tomorrow. Shouldn’t effect me at 6:30-7:00 am, but I do feel sorry for any elementary school kids out and about at that time. They are in need of breakfast.
awakeinmo:
No need to be ashamed.
You’ll find no shaming of individual tastes around here.
Hell, I like slightly burnt popcorn or bacon. Not so burnt as to be black and inedible though.
Let’s just say that I’ve found that with the right brand of popcorn, I’ve narrowed down the microwave time to just over 3 minutes to achieve the perfect level of slightly charred popcorn…
*steps up to bar*
I’ll take a Baltimore Bracer. And my friend here (my other hand) wants a Jack Rabbit. Easy on the apricot.
Tony!
I also like my bacon just short of carbonized. All super crisped and salty and umami and….excuse me, I’ve got to go to the store.
Tony #173
Oh yeah, I’m definitely not equipped to carry on this conversation much further. You’d get along well with my brother.
I do love me some video games though. :)
rabidwombat @ 166
I see you’re an individual of highly refined tastes. Excellent and welcome!
(Sometimes I make my own mayo from scratch and it is heavenly.)
I’m pretty sure that most of the people in the Moscow I’ve been to do, either. :D
DON’T. That was supposed to be DON’T. Where’s my drink?
*check your prototype transporter* Report any problems to the Pullet Patrol™.
Oh…sorry. I was just so thirsty!
My friend makes her own mayo too (she’s a chef) and it is awesome!
Есть ли у нас сейчас кто-то, который по-русски говорит? Отлично! Привет, Ксайвиус! Я – переводчица, из русского, француского, и немецкого языках, в англииский.
Wow, my typing is rusty in Russian. I’m not even very sure of my grammar production anymore. I need to do some remedial practice. :)
Welcome to all the new folk, so nice to have some more new faces.
Нет, я действительно не говорят на русском. Но мне нравится притворяться, что я делаю. Кое-что о Охота за Красным Октябрем.
I just want to say thank you for the warm welcome. Y’all are awesome, and now I must sleep. ;) But I’ll be back!
rabidwombat
Leave the bacon plate.
Who wants to go to the dentist for me tomorrow morning? I’ve got…eighty eight cents for your trouble.
In addition to what CD said @116, constructions like ‘the blacks’, ‘the jews’, and ‘the gays’ have an additional othering quality in that they essentially imply that those groups are fungible, homogeneous, and unified in purpose/attitude, and tends to correlate with conspiratorial beliefs about the groups in question (e.g. ,the Gay Agenda)
CD
Oh, hey, I was at that one too!
Welcome to all the new folks.
awakeinmo
I, myself, am going to the ‘dental surgeon’ tomorrow morning, so I cannot sub for you.
I’m having a molar extracted.
chigau
Urg. Sorry to hear that. Will you get nice drugs for the procedure?
CaitieCat
Привет! В университете я была в факультете русского языка. И я тоже изучала немецкий, испанский, и латинский языки. Русский–мой любимий из этих. :)
Aw hell…I gotta go.
chigau–good luck tomorrow.
goodnight all and special out-greetings to the new folk.
awakeinmo
Dunno about drugs for my procedure.
Good luck with yours.
私は日本語できます。
sorta
Being an atheist and all, surely it’s an IMMOLAR you’re having extracted? :D
Atashi mo!
On my phone, so no easy kanji or kana, sorry.
Hugs to anyone who needs and/or wants some.
Welcome to the new de-lurkers! I know what you mean, it took me several years of lurking before I plucked up the courage to post, and even now I think and rethink and think again before I say anything, even in the Lounge.
I finished another UFO, finally, the endless bead embroidery project. Go me. Now on to the next, or more likely, several – I usually have one going in the evenings and another that needs the kitchen table when I can use it between meals.
Thanks again, all of you who have been posting in the Ferguson threads. I keep wanting to say something, but you’ve already said it, and better. Just know that I admire and appreciate all your hard work.
Azkyroth
re: IMMOLAR
hmm
I’ll report back.
And be sure it doesn’t IMMOLATE.
:)
NEW THREAD.