I don’t think people here realise how much the church interferes and dictates through some very powerfully connected and placed minions (let’s start with the leader of the opposition).
Could someone please (and it’s an honest question) why the loony christo-fascists in the US are getting away with so much face time and the decent, honest folk are sitting back letting this happen without rebuttal – and I mean in the national media sense, not the blogosphere!!
Or have I missed something?
scifi1says
..whoops, yes, ‘missed something’
please….’tell me’ why the loony christo-fascists etc…….
Another thing… walton
I appreciate that you care deeply about racism, imigration and islamophobia. You know I mostly agree with you.
But I really thought your tealdeer over at the TAA thread inappropriate. Islamophobia was a side issue, and I found your post really distracting.
If I didn’t know you any better I would have said that it’s a classical “stop talking about misogyny, this is more important” post.
Since I know you better I though you might want to know that this is how you came off to me.
Philip Legge, coolest of the bunchsays
Wow! New thread!
The Amazing Asshole thread is getting to be a real pain at just under 800 comments, would a few of you like to help push it over onto the second page so it becomes readable again?
McCthulhu's new upbeat 2012 nym.says
I thought the ad in the topic header was pretty good. I have to wonder though; where is it going to be shown and where is ad time being bought? I doubt it will sway any god-botherers but hopefully this ad, and the billboards and bus banners being rolled out, will get the people sitting on their hands to maybe make a bit more fuss about the ridiculous things going on in this country. This probably addresses the question scifi1 asked in post 1 of this new TeT.
There’s something that you haven’t considered about all the noise generated by the goosestepping arm of the church folk, however. The have been allowed a lot of face time, but it has really done a service to their opponents by showing exactly how beyond repair their morals really are and how much ridiculous blather they are willing to spout for the sake of appeasing the worst and most dangerous segment of American society.
neroksays
Hi! I got a question about this phrase from the “not-so-Amazing Atheist” post, but that thread seems pretty crowded.
PZ says:
If, for example, your kink is peeing on women, and you’ve got a partner whose kink is being peed upon, I’m happy for the two of you, I hope you have a grand time, but please, if I ask you not to share your stories with me because I find it unpleasant, respect my wishes…”
Is this different from “I’m okay with you being gay, just don’t talk about it”? If so, how? I understand people can find both things “unpleasant”, but I would think if you said that about gay people you’d be called a bigot. Since the same post talks about being sex-positive, it confused me. It’s not like people with kinks are not discriminated against.
I guess you could argue “your stories” somehow implied gory details, but that seems a bit weak as a defense, as it would just be up to the person to say if that limit began at “I do this”.
Thoughts?
Another post on my off-nym blog, about the orcs in my world this time. Only one more of the Four Primes left to write about and boy are THEY an interesting race.
I think there’s a fine difference between “me and my partner went out last night” and “I just had a wild night of mutual cunnilingus with my partner!”* Additionally, “my girl/boyfriend and I share the same kinks” and “I pee on my girlfriend in the tub” have the same sort of difference.
The problem is that those who say “I’m okay with gay people, just don’t talk about it” are typically more interested in shutting down the conversation in the first part, the “I went out with my partner” type of talk, the completely and utterly benign kind of conversation. They conflate even the barest mention of being in a gay or lesbian relationship with the sex therein.
It’s a double standard entirely that it’s okay to talk about your heterosexual relationship, since that’s normal, but a homosexual one is wrong and should be kept secret.
That’s the difference.
*Wow… that’s a really boring way to explain a supposed “wild night”
Gnumannsays
Is this different from “I’m okay with you being gay, just don’t talk about it”? If so, how?
Do you honestly not see the difference between “Don’t display your sexual orientation” and “don’t share too much about your sex-life in public”?
I understand people can find both things “unpleasant”, but I would think if you said that about gay people you’d be called a bigot.
No, I’d say the equivalent would be: please don’t talk about the wild [insert sexual practise here*] you had last night.
Or: “I’m OK with your kink but please stop existing in public”
*Don’t want to tread out the butt-sex trope, since that’s not exclusively something gay men do nor do all gay men do it
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
So after the failed attempts of our lame SC legislature trying to push through a tax payer funded “I Believe” license plate, a private group got together and got one approved.
Presumably the person in question would say they are into watersports, not “I pee on my girlfriend in the tub”, just as a gay person might say that and not “I sure love buttfucking” (sorry about the trope).
Your responses seem to presume the way the person would express it, which didn’t figure into the actual quote. The actual quote just served to make watersports sound “bad” and that you shouldn’t share stories about it to people who find it offensive.
I too would agree that talking about the details of your sex life isn’t appropriate in all context. And apparently the defense is “gory details”, like I suggested originally. Fine. I just find it a bit weak, especially given said sex-positive comments in the same post.
People with kinks don’t enjoy a very free reign before they hit the “that’s offensive to me” line. People will cringe openly if you just mention it – even with neutral words.
Gnumannsays
People with kinks don’t enjoy a very free reign before they hit the “that’s offensive to me” line. People will cringe openly if you just mention it – even with neutral words.
Extreme prudishness is a bore – but it’s still a different ting than “don’t talk about your orientation.
You see – sexual acts are usually part of the public domain, and there’s no general social pressure to bring them into the public domain.
On the other hand, who you partner with and share your life with is very much a part of the public domain. To the effect that’s it’s not possible living a full life as a homosexual without, in effect, “talking about it”.
It’s possible for me to function socially at work without discussing wheter I only like sex with my girlfriend in the vagina, or if the asshole is an equally tempting option.
It’s not possible for me to function socially without my girlfriend coming up. If I’d been gay and my girlfriend had been my boyfriend I’d have a pretty big problem if I wasn’t supposed to “talk about it”.
McCthulhu's new upbeat 2012 nym.says
I see that some of the conversation from Teh Amazing Asshole thread has leaked over to here…uhm. Oh. Maybe ‘leaked’ is a poor choice of words. I think I will go have a golden shower…I MEAN SHOWER! and then go to bed.
Presumably the person in question would say they are into watersports, not “I pee on my girlfriend in the tub”, just as a gay person might say that and not “I sure love buttfucking” (sorry about the trope).
Your responses seem to presume the way the person would express it, which didn’t figure into the actual quote. The actual quote just served to make watersports sound “bad” and that you shouldn’t share stories about it to people who find it offensive.
Oh stop it, please, that’s ridiculous.
There’s usually a standard as to what information is appropriate in which context.
To say “I’m into BDSM” isn’t the same as saying “I did [insert explicit content here] last night”.
It’s biggoted when sexual minorities are held to a different standard than anybody else.
And what Gnumann said.
neroksays
@Gnumann
It’s not possible for me to function socially without my girlfriend coming up. If I’d been gay and my girlfriend had been my boyfriend I’d have a pretty big problem if I wasn’t supposed to “talk about it”.
It’s a fair argument. I still feel that makes it a “visible” / “nonvisible” minority situation.
@Giliell
To say “I’m into BDSM” isn’t the same as saying “I did [insert explicit content here] last night”.
I’m glad you agree.
ChasCPetersonsays
My imaginary girlfriend and I are into fruitsports, but I won’t offend you with the pulpy details.
From last thread, Nerd, glad the Redhead seems to be taking the snafu in stride. Hugs to you both.
Even being on high dose oxycontin will not allow me to read the rape apology thread. Unlike Rush Limbaugh, I do not see the drug as a gateway to young Dominican boys.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trollssays
JeffreyD, sorry to hear about your emergency appendectomy. Keep hanging in there with good humor and painkillers.
Ugh, I was falling asleep at the computer last night after dinner, and didn’t get a chance to read the TAA thread then. Digging into it now, only a score or so posts at a time. Ugh, there are some really stoopid people commenting, and I’m not even 1/10 the way through.
Oh, actually I do have a friend* who needed to have ths concept explained to him.
Because he’d make every Monday lunch the “Whom I fucked where and how at the weekend” hour.
If he’d been my boss I would have had a good sexual harassment case.
I couldn’t read much past the point I finished commenting… it’s just too asinine…
Beatrice, anormalement indécentesays
Wow, my phone line goes dead for a day and I miss the… whatever that mess with almost 800 comments is. The post kinda made me sick enough not to even try wading too deep into the comment section.
PFC Ogvorbis (Yes, they are)says
Hi, all. So glad I missed the AAT thread. I know I would not have been able to keep away. And I know that if it fires up again, I won’t be able to keep away.
I’ve been having fun playing with the fuel economy computer in my car. I discovered that 1cm of ice and snow on the hood and roof will take about 20% off of my mileage. If it wasn’t going to warm up and melt today, I’d go figure out a way to remove it.
====
I am currently looking at used/refurbished computers on Amazon. Anyone have any insight regarding what I should run from?
====
sigh…
We have sunk to the lowest form of humor.
So fart jokes are the lowest form of humour? They rank under Santorum? Damn.
I paid NZD 230.00 for this reader, while you in the States can buy it for 99.00 USD (conversion rate is about .80, so you can see it’s still way overpriced in NZ).
As it should be. They have to reprogramme the whole thing to make the letters all come out upside down. That costs money.
Hi-ho, hi-ho, off to help transfer the Redhead to extended care Rehab.
Good luck and best wishes to both of you. Be safe.
True, but “slurry”, AFAIK, isn’t one of those cases. I have heard it (infrequently) in use, with that intended meaning, and I have some vague memory that it is an archaic synonym for “slut”, though I can’t find back-up for that theory right now.
Sorry, can’t help on this one. The only definition for slurry that I have in my little brain is that of a solid suspended in a liquid — a coal slurry pipeline, or the mix of nitrogen fertilizer, water, and red dye used to combat wildland fires (and dropped from helos or fixed-wings). But then I tend to view the word through either a steam tech or wildland fire lense (with historical distortion, of course).
Only one more of the Four Primes left to write about and boy are THEY an interesting race.
Wait, wait,… let me guess… Pharyngulites?
(PS: You still owe me an answer to the maths question on the previous thread… :/ )
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trollssays
I couldn’t read much past the point I finished commenting… it’s just too asinine…
Oh, I expect that. But today’s reaction has a few hour long hold points. So I need some entertainment value during those periods.
PFC Ogvorbis (Yes, they are)says
So I need some entertainment value during those periods.
I have a fire story if you are really, really, really desperate.
sisusays
The post kinda made me sick enough not to even try wading too deep into the comment section.
ugh, I totally agree. I shudder to think what manner of slime has oozed its way over here to drag it out to 800 comments.
waltonsays
walton
I appreciate that you care deeply about racism, imigration and islamophobia. You know I mostly agree with you.
But I really thought your tealdeer over at the TAA thread inappropriate. Islamophobia was a side issue, and I found your post really distracting.
If I didn’t know you any better I would have said that it’s a classical “stop talking about misogyny, this is more important” post.
Since I know you better I though you might want to know that this is how you came off to me.
I’m sorry. You’re right, and that wasn’t how I meant to come across at all, of course. I was talking about Pat Condell because he was repeatedly discussed earlier in the thread, and I’m generally reluctant to let discussions about Condell go unremarked; I wouldn’t have raised the subject out of the blue. I certainly did not want anyone to stop talking about misogyny, and indeed I did so myself later on. But I apologize that I came across as trying to derail the thread. (I tend to be very focused on the particular issues that I spend my days studying and writing about, which means I’m sometimes oblivious to the appropriate context of discussing them.)
Yess… Pharyngulites! With tentacles, and the amazing powers of logic and reason and bacon :O
(Actually they’re a draconic humanoid race that functions to cover the “gnome” niche in fantasy stories – they’re steampunk! They also have no attention span!)
As per your maths question (you did ask at 12.30 AM…)
The question as follows: “Add up all the numbers from 1 to 100 together.”
Can you calculate that in your head before Richard et al leap in?
No. I can’t.
I am aware there is a trick to it, I just can’t remember what it was.
Predator Handshakesays
I remember the trick! You have to pair the numbers on either “side” of 50 so that you get neat little sums of 100, i.e. 1+99, 2+98, etc.
I’ve never heard slurry used in any other way than the rock/liquid one, but then again I grew up fundie.
A. Rsays
Just had a wonderful little fifteen minute nosebleed. By the way, Josh, cauterization only works some of the time, I’ve had it done three times already with limited success.
….
(Actually steampunk draconic humanoids sounds pretty damn cool too. I can imagine a poster of all the Pharyngulites in that style. I’d throw in a few cuttlefish, coyotes, tardigrades and a cephalopodic ebil oberlawd ™ for good measure.
My imaginary girlfriend and I are into fruitsports, but I won’t offend you with the pulpy details.
I admit. I laughed.
TAA has descended into explicit death threats and gorn fantasy now. Even with the explicit trigger warning on it I think some people may want to be forewarned before they dig back into it.
It really bugs me that I can’t do say anything to these people to injure them in the same way to show them how it feels…because I couldn’t bring myself to go for a low blow like that.
chigau (違う)says
I left the atheist thread at #430 yesterday evening.
Despite what I hear here I’m going back. Wish me luck.
—–
It’s 5050. 101×50
Brought ehre because it’s probably OT but I had a concern that I hope someone more into that kink scene or psychology could help me with.
with TAA giving his “I’m so submissive (which yeah btw is just another way of virtually flashing people) is there a possible um….sexual element to the jackassery? Is it possible to get off on pissing people off like that and incurring angry response? Is he just enjoying thie public pillorying? or is it inherently going to be an unenjoyable ‘pain’ because he’s not in control of it?
Ehe, yea. They’re a really interesting race. The most interesting thing about them is how different they are from the other three primes. If you read my page, today’s thing about orcs talks about how human they look despite a few minor differences (skin color, general size.) The elves are similar (skin color, pointy ears.)
The tallis (the draconic humanoids) are basically non-human. The only thing to link them to humans is that they walk on two legs. Destruction kind of made them as a source of pride as a method of saying “hey look, I created you!” cause they don’t look anything like the other primes or like the human-ish races in the world created by the magic energies of the planet itself (the mesan and the ogre races.)
It’s a stab in the heart of science, a reason to be absolutely sure they were specially created and not evolved or natural. Destruction wanted the race to absolutely worship him, to bow down and know him as their creator for all existence… and yet they DON’T!
Out of all the races in the primes, the tallis are the only ones who’ve continually advanced scientifically. They’ve mastered technologies that the rest of the primes find worrying. They’re endlessly curious, asking questions into their past and their creation. They know that magic is an energy source and not “magic” and short of developing methods to harness it, they’re actually actively researching how magic works.
The tallis are a completely off-the-wall race. I ♥ them ^^
I think people make good points on the distinction between mentioning a partner and giving details on sexual experiences. I think there’s also a pretty big difference in terms of what response you’ll get too.
I might qualify as one the “extreme prudes” Gnumann mentions, since I don’t particularly want to hear the details of your sex life, whether you’re gay, straight, poly, or other; kinky or vanilla; whatever. But the biggest response you’ll get out of me is an exclamation of “Dude! Too much information!” People who slip and mention a same-sex partner in front of a bigot could face anything from social ostracization to outright violence. I simply don’t think that the two are comparable.
I do want to ask though (and I’m aware there could be details in the response), do kinky folks consider that to be a part of their identity in the way that LGBT folks do? It’s utterly unreasonable for a person to be unable to mention a same-sex partner, since that person is a major part of one’s life, and will figure into answering questions as banal as “Hey, what did you do over the weekend?” But while I see the distinction between “I’m into watersports” and “I like to get peed on,” I wonder how the first would even come up in conversation with, say, a coworker or an acquaintance.
Next he will tell you about his sex life. The psychology term is “hoggling”.
Psh, you are WAY behind. PZ already updated that wonderful bit of brain bleach.
Happiestsadistsays
Ing @ #38: Now there’s a thought I did not want to ponder before finishing my breakfast.
Eskeptical Engineer @ #40: Some do, though most don’t, and I’ve only ever met one who did. (My ‘nym, for example, is an A Wrinkle In Time allusion. For one, I have far too much major depression irl to count as happiest.) I’ll be open about it if asked or among the like-minded, but otherwise, what I do for fun doesn’t come up. If I went to munches and such, I might mention that, but again, that’s not as much a sexual act as a meetup. More openness may be required if, say, there are visible marks and the viewer expresses concern, but that’s a different matter.
mcwafflesays
FWIW, I’m also advising people not wade back into the TAA thread. I mostly lurked until like 450 or 500, and it’s just a series of MRA trolls burning out and being replaced like a damn relay race. But, I guess we don’t want them to have the last word?
Happiestsadistsays
Eskeptrical Engineer @ #40: In my own case, I’m genderqueer and queer first, kinky is somewhere near “really good cook” and “pulp horror obsession”. Kind of further down the “what one learns about Happiestsadist” list.
The “DONT DO WHAT OTHERS TELL YOU! YOU ONLY CARE BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD YOU TO” liberturds that TJ seems to attract like flies to dung are HILARIOUS. It’s like someone gav3 a bunch of 12 year olds “My first Nietzsche”
waltonsays
The “DONT DO WHAT OTHERS TELL YOU! YOU ONLY CARE BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD YOU TO” liberturds that TJ seems to attract like flies to dung are HILARIOUS. It’s like someone gav3 a bunch of 12 year olds “My first Nietzsche”
Indeed. Particularly the way that they seem to think “freedom of speech” means “freedom from being criticized”.
Happiestsadistsays
Ing @ #46: Bwaahahahahaha! There’s no shortage of that type of pseudosopher. “How to tell if you’re Ubermensch: if you’re reading this, then yes! Feel free to use your superior status to be as much of an ignorant dumbass as possible. Being superior, you don’t need to learn anything more. Disregard anything actually said by the philosophers I’m poorly plagiarizing.”
sisusays
“How to tell if you’re Ubermensch: if you’re reading this, then yes! Feel free to use your superior status to be as much of an ignorant dumbass as possible. Being superior, you don’t need to learn anything more. Disregard anything actually said by the philosophers I’m poorly plagiarizing.”
Presumably the person in question would say they are into watersports,
Which I would totally understand to mean surfing and the like, leading no doubt to some sitcomish exchanges.
***
I admit. I laughed.
So did I.
mcwafflesays
There is definitely a time when I was like, 18 or 19, that I would have been on the wrong end of that whole debate. I had some choice words for my RA for forcing everybody to sit down and watch a half-hour-long “don’t dress up in racist costumes on Halloween please” movie. At the time, I believe I said something along the lines of “Suck it up and read the first amendment,” which is something I definitely regret.
I also objected to the sexual assault statistics in a MRA-like way. Ah, youth. It’s actually pretty impressive how much difference just a few years can make, although they don’t always.
FWIW, I’m also advising people not wade back into the TAA thread.
Advised. (I gather that that thread and my SIWOTI will do me no favours, so have stayed out.)
waltonsays
There is definitely a time when I was like, 18 or 19, that I would have been on the wrong end of that whole debate.
Me too. I was a raging misogynist and homophobe when I was in my mid-teens. I got better over time, but I still had plenty of clueless sexist ideas when I first came to Pharyngula, as some people will remember. (I was just under 19 then; I’m 22 now.)
Presumably the person in question would say they are into watersports,
Which I would totally understand to mean surfing and the like, leading no doubt to some sitcomish exchanges.
Me, too.
Yet I’d still think that a “neutral” response would be “I had a fun weekend with my partner” or something like that.
I’m not a prude, but there’s a time and place for everything.
I have enjoyed reading (less participating) quite some exchanges here about the particular kinks/fetishes people have. They were usually made in some context.
Pushing unsolicited information about your sexlife on somebody borders on harrasment IMO, and can become harrasment in some situations (just think about a 40 something male boss offering that information to his 20 something secretary).
Walton
I know he was mentioned and people mostly meantioned that he gets a cold reception around here. But fucking islamophobia and racism weren’t the subject so, yeah, although well-meant it was still pretty derailing.
Argh, fuck, I need to get #1 an appointment with an orthopedist. We’d always hoped that when the muscles become stronger that she would turn the foot inwards less, but somehow I don’t see any progress.
THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT CURRENT! DO DO DO DO DO DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUP! *Iris*
*whoosh*
mcwafflesays
I never, never would have thought myself a homophobe, misogynist, or racist, and I still would argue that I wasn’t, I was just 10 kinds of privileged and didn’t really understand the ramifications of it. I was thinking things like, “Why is there no men’s history month” or “people shouldn’t be offended by those racial costumes” or “these statistics tar all men as rapists and can’t be true, must just be fear-mongering.”
I think that’s why it’s such a persistent, nasty strain of troll. They honesty believe they are just for “equality” and “fairness” as though they were operating in a cultural, socio-politial vacuum full of Rational Actors. It’s “irrational” to actually look at society as-it-is and think of the real-world implications of your actions. In fantasy land, it’s OK to say horrible racist things because, “we’re all pals, and you know it’s just a joke” and everybody responds “Oh, McWaffle, has your wit no end? You’re the most handsome, dashing, and oh-so-edgy man I’ve ever met! Let’s drink Fleichman’s in your dorm room and make out!”
Thank FSM that TLC and I never met up as barefoot youngsters. No doubt we would have been best buds, but I am just as sure we would have blown ourselves up in a vast pyrotechnic conflagration.
An anecdote a friend shared with me recently that can be recounted as follows:
1. Hear from your high school chemistry teacher that swimming pool cleaner + brake fluid = rainbow-colored flame.
2. Tell your friends. Go to Mall-Wart to buy pool cleaner and brake fluid.
3. Mix them up in a trash can on your or one of your friends’ front lawns.
4. Be disappointed that the can is smoking but not flaming. Stir it up with a stick, then throw in a lit match.
5. PROFIT!! Marvel at the 16-foot rainbow flame shooting up from the trash can, perilously close to overhanging tree branches.
6. Nearly shit your pants when a cop drives by right at that moment.
7. Note that the cop is shaking his head and laughing. Watch him drive off without saying anything to you.
What Murray points out is, that in spite of his brilliance and achievements, Euripides spent a long and hard life fighting in the Greek army (’til the age of 60!).
I’m not comfortable with that wording. Some of the most brilliant people I know are ex-military.
Classical Cipher, #593, last thread: This isn’t really a collection of quotes as much as recommended reading, but you might want to check out Ta-Nehisi Coates’ blog on The Atlantic. He frequently writes about the U.S. Civil War, as he has written or is still writing a work of fiction based in that period.
Josh, #597, last thread: Please take care of yourself. Please. These shitbags are NOT worth compromising your health over.
Nerok: Being gay, or lesbian or bisexual or transgender, is more than about just having sex.
Heterosexual people talk about being heterosexual all the time without discussing their bedroom habits: They talk about their wives or husbands or boyfriends or girlfriends. There’s no good reason GLBT people should not be able to likewise talk about their partners openly and to anybody. But talking about what you like to do in bed (or in the dungeon) should be limited to people who want to hear about it.
And, please, as someone with kinks myself, I roll my eyes at the implication that we’re anywhere near as oppressed as GLBT people. We’re really, really not. To answer Eskeptrical Engineer’s question, straight/cis kinky people who actually think we are need to check their privilege.
Ing: Damn you, now I need to add “book cover of My First Nietzsche” to my list of amusing Photoshop projects.
McWaffle: I’ve identified as a feminist since adolescence and I’ve still harbored any number of unfeminist ideas until fairly recently. I wish youngsters got more formal exposure to basic sociology, especially in the U.S., where we have some pretty extreme ideas about what “individualists” we all are.
chigau (違う)says
I’m at #595 in the Atheist thread and I’m wondering how to fit this (from SC) on a t-shirt.
I’m an uneducated academic intellectual pseudo-intellectual elite loser slutty prude uppity conformist liberal authoritarian artsy hyper-rational extremist.
Ing: Damn you, now I need to add “book cover of My First Nietzsche” to my list of amusing Photoshop projects.
Race you for it! With his mustache I’m thinking of editing The Lorax as the base.
Musesays
Ing @31 – it’s possible. I know some pretty serious humiliation fetishists. It wouldn’t have been my first thought though.
Eskeptrical Engineer @40 – for some kinky folk it’s definitely orientative. That said, people can talk about their vanilla lives without talking about their kink. It’s harder when it’s D/s as a lifestyle, and some people do not hide that because it is so integral. Others make other choices.
PFC Ogvorbis (Yes, they are)says
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Theophontes, TLC, et al:
In junior high, some friends and I discovered the wonders of saltpeter (nitre) plus sugar. And proceeded to burn a mis-spelled four letter word (FUKC) on main street in our small town. It lasted for about a year as moderately visible.
Swimming pool cleaner plus brake fluid was out of our league (mostly because the local store carried nitre for curing hams, but did not carry anything for swimming pools (our swimming pool was Antietam Creek)).
What Murray points out is, that in spite of his brilliance and achievements, Euripides spent a long and hard life fighting in the Greek army (’til the age of 60!).
Missed that little bit. I, too, know some brilliant people in the military. And for some of them, it may have been the only realistic way to allow their brilliance to achieve usefulness.
Richard Austinsays
Regarding the line between being gay coming up in a conversation and explicit sexual practices…
… being gay isn’t necessarily sexual, nor do I need to be discussing sex for it to come across. I could say something like, “Hey, you were asking about Calabi-Yau Manifolds* the other day; this guy I’m dating happens to be a string theorist**…” and suddenly it’s pretty obvious I’m gay.
The people who complain of, “I don’t care if you’re gay, I just don’t want to hear about it,” are basically trying to force people like me to police a huge section of casual conversation that they themselves don’t police: how often does “my wife” or “my husband” come up in just every-day statements? “Hey, my husband made an awesome steak last night.” “Girlfriend and I went to see the new Ridley Scott flick…” etc.
It’s a demand for a privileged positon and is inherently discriminatory.
* And no, that’s not a stretch. You wouldn’t believe how often I end up in conversations about the shape of multidimensional space. And I’m a computer geek in a hospital, for tentacle’s sake. It’s like people just seek me out for this stuff.
** And no, we’re not actually dating; he’s in New Jersey, and I missed him when he was out last time. But we’ll hopefully go out next time he stops by CalTech.
neroksays
@ Ms. Daisy Cutter, post 61:
Being gay, or lesbian or bisexual or transgender, is more than about just having sex.
At the risk of inviting dictionary pedants, kink culture exists. The “it’s about sex” argument is tired, and I regret not making it clear that I was comparing only the similarity in attacks from others, not making the argument that homosexuality is all about sex. With that in mind, I hope you too expressed yourself in an unfortunate manner.
And, please, as someone with kinks myself, I roll my eyes at the implication that we’re anywhere near as oppressed as GLBT people. We’re really, really not.
That was never the point of my argument. And I find it odd that you would make it an issue of comparative oppression. I actually thought that argument was steamrolled to death here after the Dawkins comment.
PFC Ogvorbis (Yes, they are)says
the mix of nitrogen fertilizer, water, and red dye used to combat wildland fires
Dye in a fire?
Makes it easier for the pilots to see the areas that have already been slimed (when the stuff it wet, it has a gelatinous sliminess to it which is weird (the fertilizer retards the speed at which the water evaporates and the gelatinous aspect helps it stick to trees, grasses, shrubs, trucks, firefighters))).
I should put in a comment about “Go dye in a fire” with some witticism appended, but I am unable to come up with one. Sorry.
….And proceeded to burn a mis-spelled four letter word (FUKC) on main street in our small town.
AHAHAHA.
I once read a police log incident in which a bunch of bored teenagers poured some kind of flammable liquid onto the pavement in roughly the shape of a pentagram and tried to light it on fire. That was also amusing, not because of the damage they could have done but the ~~edginess~~ of it all.
Nerok: Shove your petulance and your condescension up your ass, kthx. Your question #6 did in fact imply that kink and gender nonconformity were on a par politically. And, no, the attacks from others are NOT anywhere near similar, because kink can and often does adhere strictly to traditional gender roles.
Happiestsadistsays
Nerok @ #68 : It really does sound like you’re (still) implying that kink and queerness experience similar levels of oppression, starting with the stupid fucking JAQing off you started with. Thanks for explaining to the kinky folks who answered you that there’s a kink culture, we never would have guessed. You’re making a stupid equivalence.
I should put in a comment about “Go dye in a fire” with some witticism appended, but I am unable to come up with one. Sorry.
Yeah, I couldn’t come up with anything witty either, so I just left it as is.
doktorzoomsays
The Recent Unpleasantness that is the TAA thread (which I haven’t tried to wade through since somewhere around #300 or #400) came to mind when I saw this post by abi sutherland, a moderator at Making Light, which is sort of a meta-discussion around the problems of getting terminology right in online discussions. A sample:
What happens is this: a conversation will be bubbling along nicely, and someone will start questioning whether the term “racism” really covers the matter at hand—and doesn’t cover some other point they’d like to bring in. Or “sexism”, or “misogyny”. Is “homophobia” really a fear-based phenomenon? There’s always at least one person who thinks that all these baked-in inequalities are bad and all that, but that everyone’s energy really should be spent finding a better word than “privilege” to describe the situation…
Sometimes it’s a genuine derail—someone doesn’t want to hear what’s being discussed, and starts a vocabulary fight to shut the conversation down. Your basic troll, looking to start something any old way, will have this technique in the arsenal.
Other times, the commenter is one of those people who has their ego shackled tightly to their intelligence, and prides themselves on the idea that they could, given an afternoon and plenty of tea, finally resolve this whole free will/determinism thing once and for all. So they’re trying to reinvent generations of scholarship and jargon-polishing from scratch, only better this time (because they’re involved)…
And sometimes, alas, it’s just someone who’s been argued into a corner on other matters, and is now fending off all comers in all ways. Those are the saddest ones…
But every now and then it’s the real deal—someone for whom the world is unfolding in a new way right then; they’re groping around for the next key and the next lock to put it in, becoming addicted to the sensation of a bunch of disparate phenomena fitting together into a new conceptional whole. You can tell these ones because they start discussing the terminology shortly after it first appears, using open questions, and genuinely responding to replies. These guys are pure gold, worth all the wankers and infraponts you have to put up with to get to them.
It’s a pretty good conversation; I find myself nodding in recognition quite a bit. (f nothing else, I just love her coinage “infrapont”…)
PFC Ogvorbis (Yes, they are)says
And when firefighters get splashed with slurry, it is very important to get it washed off.
[[[WARNING: FIRE STORY]]]
I was at a fire in Oregon in 2002. While I was there, the area got its first measureable rainfall in five months. And beat the fire back really well. To the point that we transitioned from a Type 1 to a Type 3 in two days.
Those of use taking airplanes home drove to Portland and flew out the next day. Well, most of us did.
One woman had been doing two jobs at the fire — a dip site supervisor and Type 2 handcrew. While working handcrew, her crew set some back fires (this is done with a drip torch filled with a 1:4 mixture of gasoline and fuel oil). It is almost impossible to mix and load the fuel without spilling. And some spilled on the yellow pack (the yellow pack carries all PPE, as well as a few other things needed on the fire line; the red pack carries all one’s extra clothing, the tent, etc, and remains in the fire camp or spike camp).
While working the dip site, she got soaked in slurry. When helicopters pick up slurry at a dip site (also called a pumpkin), anyone and anything within 50 yards gets dripped on and splashed.
So. Here it is, less than a year after 9/11. She shows up with checked luggage that has both nitrogen fertilizer and fuel oil residue on it and in it. Think about it.
Portland had one of the new machines to look for traces of stuff used to make bombs. Like fuel oil and fertilizer.
The armed response was impressive.
She flew out the next day but here luggage went by FedEx.
Wait, you say, doesn’t FedEx send by air? Yes, yes they do.
[END FIRE STORY!!! NOW SAFE TO CONTINUE READING!!!!]
Sorry ’bout that.
waltonsays
Walton
I know he was mentioned and people mostly meantioned that he gets a cold reception around here. But fucking islamophobia and racism weren’t the subject so, yeah, although well-meant it was still pretty derailing.
Yes, and I’m sorry. It honestly did not occur to me at all that it would be a derail, but that’s a privilege-fail on my part, as well as a symptom of the fact that I’m used to concentrating on particular issues.
neroksays
@ Ms. Daisy Cutter, post 70
Shove your petulance and your condescension up your ass, kthx. Your question #6 did in fact imply that kink and gender nonconformity were on a par politically. And, no, the attacks from others are NOT anywhere near similar, because kink can and often does adhere strictly to traditional gender roles.
Petulance and condescension? I’m not sure where you picked that up from my post, but I’m sure getting it here.
You just doubled down on “lesser oppression” then? We shouldn’t bother? Because, and now I’ve stated it clearly twice, that wasn’t the point of my argument.
@ Happiestsadist, post 71
It really does sound like you’re (still) implying that kink and queerness experience similar levels of oppression, starting with the stupid fucking JAQing off you started with. Thanks for explaining to the kinky folks who answered you that there’s a kink culture, we never would have guessed. You’re making a stupid equivalence.
It sure seemed like the kinky person in question wasn’t aware, since it completely undercuts the argument about it being about sex.
I’m also unsure why both of you are being so hostile. I thought this would be an issue where this place would be supportive?
chigau (違う)says
#801
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
do kinky folks consider that to be a part of their identity in the way that LGBT folks do
I definitely do.
But as other people have pointed out, as a straight kinky person I don’t have to censor myself when I talk about going on a picnic with my spouse, I don’t have to worry about bringing my spouse to work or family functions, and I don’t have to fear being curb stomped for holding hands with my spouse in public.
Happiestsadistsays
Nerok @ #76: I’m hostile because either your question was in terrible faith, or you suck at expressing yourself. I’m sure you well know that not all kinky folks participate in kink culture. And you are still drawing a comparison between how you get off and who you partner with. Which is a tired-ass tactic of homophobes, which you should be aware of if you know anything at all about the history of queerness.
chigau (違う)says
and done.
What’s happening here?
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
bwah, my @78 was a really great quotebork. i’m just gonna trust the smart people here can still figure it out.
neroksays
@Happiestsadist, post 79
And you are still drawing a comparison between how you get off and who you partner with.
What I was suggesting is rather that the attacks against both share a hell of a lot, likely has a common origin and that it might be a good idea to work together instead of kicking “down” the totem pole. I know that it’s not uncommon for people to be pro-LGB issues and *not* be particularly nice to the T or Q.
What I felt in the original comment was an unnecessary slam on a kink.
The suggestions throughout that this is about sex and that shouldn’t be discussed with people who don’t want to hear it ring a bit false, since that’s exactly what bigots use to shut down gay people – as you just pointed out. Not talking about it isn’t a good way to get acceptance there, and I think the same holds true for kinks. The less people know, the more “weird” it seems, the easier it is for bigotry to thrive.
Yes, you’ve showed that you still don’t understand the difference between mentioning your sexual orientation/kink and talking about your sex-life in graphic detail.
Happiestsadistsays
You have, and it’s still wrong and appropriating. Simple enough for you?
I also love how you informed that about the transphobia in the queer community, and how it’s totes the same, when I already have stated that I’m not cis. ‘Splaining much?
I believe that kink can be an orientational thing for some (though by no means all or possibly even most) people into it. However, that doesn’t make straight kinksters anywhere near queer or facing the same shit that LGBTQI folks get. They’re straight. Yes, they do get their own shit, but appropriating the oppression of others is really not cool. It’s not cool when queer activists start with “gay is the new black” shit, and that is pretty much what you’re doing here. Stop it. I would venture that for most kinky people, it is about the sex acts that get them off, it certainly is for me. My queerness is about who I love, partner with, that whole deal.
Stevarioussays
So, I’ve found a rare critter indeed… A Christian on the internet willing to admit when they are wrong and answer questions in a long discussion.
I figured some of you would be interested in seeing such a thing (I know *I* thought they were extinct!), so here I am dropping a link.
Also, if you could point out anything you think I’ve gotten wrong, I’d greatly appreciate it. I think it’d at least be a refreshing change from the vileness all over the TAA thread.
drbunsen le savant fousays
Some leftovers from the previous ep:
I’ve never seen that photo of Sir David before, though. I don’t think it’s a Photoshop…
No, I think he’s caught in the middle of counting something.
.
theophontes:
“sloerie” & “hoer” are roughly equivalent in Dutch IIRC. This could be connected to “slurry”.
That makes sense. Does anyone have access to OED online here? I have so far failed to find any freely-available confirmation outside urbandictionary.
Though I did find this, which, eww. Talk about TMI.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OMsays
I’ve mentioned here like a billion times that I’m a submissive, to the point that I’m pretty sure many of the regulars remember that about me. Yet I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned what specifically I do in bed, except perhaps in response to misogynistic trolls who were claiming that the existence of women like me means they should be misogynist assholes all over the place. I’m therefore pretty sure that you can draw a distinction between discussing “kink culture”/kink-orientation and telling everybody what specific kinky sexual acts you’ve been engaging in recently.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
The suggestions throughout that this is about sex and that shouldn’t be discussed with people who don’t want to hear it ring a bit false, since that’s exactly what bigots use to shut down gay people
Look, FFS, it’s not that complicated. Bigots who say it’s about sex are lying. This is easy to tell because they say it’s about sex when really it’s about raising children together or supporting each other through hospitalization or going to the museum together over the weekend or holding hands on the street after dinner.
Bigots do not claim it’s about sex when heterosexual people want the rights to do these things or to talk about these things. We know they’re lying when they say their objections are about sex. They’re being disingenuous. Dishonest. It’s a con. Okay?
On the other hand, if I don’t want to hear about someone’s sex life, then that’s about sex. Asking someone not to talk about their actual sex life is not asking them to hide their partners, or trying to take their kids away, or preventing them from being together when one of them is hospitalized, or asking them not to talk about their family or their partner.
I’m a big proponent of the idea that kink is not necessarily confined to sex, but you’re barking up the wrong tree here. there really is a line. Where that line may be depends on the individual, but essentially it’s discriminatory and bigoted to prevent people from talking about their partners and families but it’s reasonable to not want to hear more about someone’s sexual activities than you’re comfortable with.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Slurry: Here in the TLC dictionary, Slurry has ALWAYS been that watery grit that builds up on the surface of a wet stone when sharpening a knife, and helps get a nice smooth shaving-sharp edge. The slurry, as I understand it, acts both as a lubricant and a micro-fine abrasive at the same time.
What Murray points out is, that in spite of his brilliance and achievements, Euripides spent a long and hard life fighting in the Greek army (’til the age of 60!).
I’m not comfortable with that wording. Some of the most brilliant people I know are ex-military.
As I read it, the “in spite of his brilliance” was more of a contrast to “long life… in the Greek army”. The question is what he did in the army. If he spent most of his life as a grunt, then that seems to be a waste of a great mind.
All:
Is there a test for audio discrimination? More importantly, is there any treatment that will improve it?
I’ve found that I often have a hard time understanding speech when there’s even a small amount of background noise, and I’m constantly asking people to repeat themselves. Typically, if someone doesn’t have my attention, they sound like Charlie Brown’s teacher.
I do have some hearing loss, but not that much.
Happiestsadistsays
Benjamin: I’ve known two other people who’ve had the same issue re: background noise and understanding speech. Out of curiosity, have people ever told you that you talk too loudly? They both do, and it seems to be associated with their understanding others.
Also, I notice you didn’t say shit about fanboying the indefensible and triggering the fuck out of me. Good job.
HS: Don’t expect him to. I’m sure he doesn’t even understand what was so fucked up about the Miller post and, more to the point, doesn’t want to.
Richard Austinsays
nerok:
Let’s try this again: sexuality and gender have nothing (or very little to do with sex. They’re about identity and attraction. They’re almost impossible to separate from day-to-day life, as they intersect with it in many ways. This has been expressed.
Kink is almost exclusively about eroticisim and sex. While some people choose to expand kink into a lifestyle choice (such as D/s), the vast majority of kinks do not intersect day-to-day life outside of the bedroom (or wherever you happen to do it).
Kink and sex should be topics that are open for discussion in appropriate settings. Casual conversation at the office, for example, is (probably) not one of those settings. However, sexuality and gender will come up in a casual conversation at the office because of how much they intersect day-to-day life.
Therefore, asking someone to suppress any mention or implication of sexuality or gender is a much higher burden than asking them to suppress any mention or implication of kink. Further, bigots aren’t asking to suppress all mention of sexuality or gender; they’re only asking to suppress such discussions from one group. That makes it discrimination.
If you can find someone in this group who doesn’t want to talk about kink in the same setting they’re willing to talk about more vanilla sex, then you can start discussing hypocracy in this group. But you can’t equate “you can’t talk about something I’m allowed to talk about” to “none of us should be talking about something”.
And if you really can’t see the difference – and it’s pretty broad – well, then, I’m not sure what to tell you.
Back at my old blog, these attacks would have had little effect on me. At my old blog my posse would have crowded them out, shrugged their way past them until the attackers were shouting uselessly at the periphery. My old blog was a warm, inviting space where I could take risks because people were willing to take them with me.
(emphasis mine)
Speaking of which, if anyone didn’t see this (via Natalie) :
Absolutely. The sad truth is that we just don’t have numbers or power on our own. We’re completely dependent on allies.
I just called the Baltimore City Council to register my support for their pending trans protection bill, and they were very nice. The measure will be discussed on Feb 14, goes for a vote on Feb 21 and it’s on their page here, bill 3-12 Human Relations:
Especially in the context of the Amazing Atheist thread, I’d say.
Happiestsadistsays
Oh I’m sorry, does the fact that you are defending a criminal act )that the guy who nearly raped me to death did as a warmup) left me with PTSD flashbacks make you feel uncomfortable? Do you want to keep defending a photographer’s “right” to invade women’s bodies and space?
You fucking triggered me, asshole. And, unsurprisingly, are making all about how bullied poor Benjamin is. FUCK YOU.
Happiestsadistsays
You certainly called it, Ms. Daisy. Sexual violence is irrelevant if caring about it interferes with Ben’s hobby, it seems.
does the fact that you are defending a criminal act … make you feel uncomfortable?
Simple: Taking photos in a public space is not a criminal act.
Do you want to keep defending a photographer’s “right” to invade women’s bodies and space?
A guy shot video on a public (crowded) street of a group of people, including a woman who was posing. He never touched her. He never even got close to her. How is this an “invasion of bodies and space”?
You fucking triggered me, asshole.
If someone making a rational comment triggers you, you need to get professional help.
And, unsurprisingly, are making all about how bullied poor Benjamin is. FUCK YOU.
You certainly called it, Ms. Daisy. Sexual violence is irrelevant if caring about it interferes with Ben’s hobby, it seems.
“Sexual violence”? Obviously we’re talking about completely different incidents, because the only violence that occurred during the incident I’m talking about was some goober on a bicycle attacking the videographer.
Pteryxxsays
*correction: Baltimore COUNTY Council, gah.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Benjamin, you can be a real goddamn jerk and it’s disgusting that you never, ever take responsibility for your jerk behavior.
cicely (Vitamin Fortified!)says
Last Thread:
I guess I’ll stick to my usual strategy of helping, and make my friend some brownies or something. Practical sympathy involving food can’t go wrong, right?
It’s hard to go wrong with Brownie Therapy. :)
(Ya know, I’m having a terrible time, what with this pain in all the diodes up and down my left side….)
–
–
This Thread:
My imaginary girlfriend and I are into fruitsports, but I won’t offend you with the pulpy details.
Taking photos in a public space is not a criminal act.
Taking photos of a stranger’s ass, without their consent, for erotic purposes actually is a criminal act in Canada, where HappiestSadist is from.
It may not be a criminal act in the States, but it’s certainly skeevy as all hell, and I would avoid any man who felt entitled to do that, because it shows a disrespect for boundaries. Same as it’s legal to call a woman a cunt, but I’d also avoid men who did that.
If someone making a rational comment triggers you, you need to get professional help.
Ah, right, “rational,” in the creepbag sense of “completely ignoring context and devoid of empathy.”
Taking photos of a stranger’s ass, without their consent, for erotic purposes actually is a criminal act in Canada, where HappiestSadist is from.
And did you forget the part where the videographer is gay? And how do you define “erotic purposes”? Should we ban photos of roadkill or elbows and peanut butter?
It may not be a criminal act in the States, but it’s certainly skeevy as all hell, and I would avoid any man who felt entitled to do that, because it shows a disrespect for boundaries.
… and did you forget the part where the incident took place in Times Square, which, last I checked, isn’t in Canada?
neroksays
Happiestsadist, post 84
when I already have stated that I’m not cis. ‘Splaining much?
I missed that. I’m also not sure what’s wrong with openly stating it, even if it’s likely you know and agree. Others reading might not.
Yes, they do get their own shit, but appropriating the oppression of others is really not cool. It’s not cool when queer activists start with “gay is the new black” shit, and that is pretty much what you’re doing here. Stop it.
I don’t understand this. You have to be able to say “if this is the reasoning why *this* is wrong, it should also apply to this” without it becoming “this is wrong, and this is the same thing”. Those are two separate arguments.
I would venture that for most kinky people, it is about the sex acts that get them off, it certainly is for me. My queerness is about who I love, partner with, that whole deal.
Okay. It’s great that you feel that way. I slice it differently.
@ Kristinc, post 88
Bigots who say it’s about sex are lying.
On the other hand, if I don’t want to hear about someone’s sex life, then that’s about sex.
I’m a big proponent of the idea that kink is not necessarily confined to sex, but you’re barking up the wrong tree here. there really is a line. Where that line may be depends on the individual
I’ve seen that kind of bigot. I’ve also met plenty of people who seem genuinely repulsed at the very thought of gay *sex*, homophobes to the core. To them “I’m gay” really is about sex. *Why* they’re wired like that is a whole other book.
I’m not advocating public disclosure of the details in any sex life. I stated that in the original post. But I also think people with kinks should be able to express they’re there. Without it being about sex.
If that causes a short circuit in someone, I’m sorry.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Benjamin Geiger:
Happiestsadist/Ms. Daisy Cutter:
If you two are done hoggling over me, could we move on?
Don’t ever fucking compare yourself to me again, you stupid asshole. I didn’t want to say anything ‘mean’ then, but I’ll fucking say it now: I am nothing like you. I may be having a few difficulties with the opposite sex, but I would die of shame if I ever acted as creepy as you do.
And did you forget the part where the videographer is gay?
Did you see HS’s comment last thread that they were assaulted by a gay man? And Walton’s remark that the guy thought that recording this video would earn him some attention — at the expense, of course, of the girl involved?
Should we ban photos of roadkill or elbows and peanut butter?
GMAFB. Inanimate objects can’t be objectified, and distributing videos of them does not violate the privacy of those objects, nor subject them to reputation-harming shaming and possible harassment.
Did you actually watch the video?
Yes. Any more disingenuous questions?
Nerok:
If that causes a short circuit in someone, I’m sorry.
Yeah, it’s all our fault for overreacting to what you said, rather than that you’re saying anything fucked up.
Such as that people who feel the need to express “genuine repulsion” at the thought of “gay sex” (what kind of gay sex? Because it’s not monolithic) aren’t really homophobes. Yes, they are. If they can’t help being “grossed out,” maybe they should just STFU and stop thinking so much about it. And their revulsion is much more likely enculturated than “hard-wired.”
Musesays
So I was going to wade into the kink/queer etc thing, but instead I’ll say what Classical Cipher said at 87.
Pteryxxsays
…I don’t have time to help ream Ben Geiger right now, so I’ll just say WHAT THEY SAID. Ben, you’re a selfish frickin’ douchebag who doesn’t care WHO gets hurt as long as it’s never ever you. I’m ashamed to share a minor disability with you. I’ll still have to answer you about auditory discrimination, because I can’t stop myself being helpful even to a jackass like you; but I will have to suck it up first.
TLC and Pteryxx: Clenched-tentacle salutes to you both.
Happiestsadistsays
I have had therapy, Benny-boy. Lots and lots of it. Because of shit like the bullshit you’re defending. I couldn’t leave the house for years before that because I was afraid of creeps like you, and the asshole you’re defending. Thankfully, I live in a country where that’s illegal, though this is a recent change. I wonder: did they have to make it illegal because of shitpiles like you, who need to be threatened with criminal charges before they get some idea of human decency? You’re the moral equivalent of the little “do not use while showering” stickers on a hair dryer.
I especially like the sexist little dig about your “rationality”. You’re not rational. You’re a shitty little bully who despises people who aren’t exactly like you or who don’t coddle your special snowflake ass.
I don’t give half a semiliquid chilishit that the “artiste” is gay. I’ve been sexually assaulted by a gay man when I was in girlmode. And people dismissed it, like you’re doing now. Rape culture thanks you, Benny.
Happiestsadistsays
BTW: thanks to TLC, Pteryxx and Daisy
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Pteryxx, Daisy Cutter, and HappiestSadist: Nothing in my entire online life has made me feel dirtier or slimier than when Benjamin Geiger compared his douchebaggery to my difficulties in meeting women who are into me. I seriously felt unclean. Tainted.
drbunsen le savant fousays
Jeebus Ben, it really is all about you, isn’t it?
neroksays
@ Richard Austin, post 93
Therefore, asking someone to suppress any mention or implication of sexuality or gender is a much higher burden than asking them to suppress any mention or implication of kink.
Well argued post. This was the meaty bit.
Further, bigots aren’t asking to suppress allmention of sexuality or gender; they’re only asking to suppress such discussions from one group. That makes it discrimination.
I think that is selling most bigotry short. They’re really multifaceted when it comes to shutting people down. :)
If you can find someone in this group who doesn’t want to talk about kink in the same setting they’re willing to talk about more vanilla sex, then you can start discussing hypocracy in this group. But you can’t equate “you can’t talk about something I’m allowed to talk about” to “none of us should be talking about something”.
That happens so often. I’m not sure if there’s a cultural difference at play here, but talking about sex isn’t that uncommon here. Certainly not in the broad sense (e.g. not intimate details). And there’s a clear difference between how much you’re allowed to talk about.
I guess the main thrust of it is that it’s hard to build acceptance if you can’t talk about something. You can point to people that have come out and people can see that they’re normal people in all walks of life. That’s a great thing. I guess this is what I was alluding to earlier with the “visible” / “nonvisible” analogy.
I’ve very clearly missed something. What is Benjamin defending now?
drbunsen le savant fousays
You’re the moral equivalent of the little “do not use while showering” stickers on a hair dryer.
Win for wordsmithery.
Win for accuracy.
Just_A_Lurkersays
Nothing in my entire online life has made me feel dirtier or slimier than when Benjamin Geiger compared his douchebaggery to my difficulties in meeting women who are into me. I seriously felt unclean. Tainted.
This is one of the many, many reasons why I have an internet crush on you.
And, yes, HappiestSadist is a remarkable wordsmith.
Starstuff: He’s defending strangers taking photos of women in public without the women’s permission for the wanking enjoyment of said strangers and other strangers. Legal in some places, illegal in others, creepy everywhere. I reacted angrily here to a photography blog he’d recommended earlier that’s OK with this practice. He defends the blogger at #495, I retort at #498, HS throws in at #504, and there’s legal analysis from Walton at #513.
cicely (Vitamin Fortified!)says
IOW, he sees it as a victimless non-crime.
–
Jerry Alexandratossays
To kristinc:
One follow-up to a prior thread. A problem with audio discrimination is included in the broad range of symptoms for Asperger’s Syndrome. It is not as easily diagnosed as simple hearing loss, and has its’ own separate test.
I really don’t recommend trying to diagnose your own family members. Your experience of ADHD or AS may be very different from that of each of your children. It takes a trained expert to figure it out. Quite important: A pediatrician is _not_ a trained expert in complex childhood development problems, and most likely will not be able to differentiate ADHD from AS. In the case of AS, you should consider pediatricians more like general MDs (i.e. not at all useful for this problem). Get a referral to a specialist if at all possible.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
But I also think people with kinks should be able to express they’re there. Without it being about sex.
Express them how? Where? At work? At lunch? To a stranger in a movie theater line? I really don’t even know what the hell you’re talking about. It’s not like people with vanilla sexual expressions are entitled to yap about them indiscriminately — I don’t want to hear how much a straight vanilla dude loves pussy or what sort of condoms are his favorite, either. It’s an across the board issue of appropriateness.
Look, I’ve personally had some angst in the past about feeling there were aspects of my relationships I had to keep quiet about to some people, because of their D/s nature, but I never had to hide the fact that I had a partner or who my partner was or that we did relationship type things together. Being forced to hide information about your relationship or your family is nothing like being asked to not share the details of a certain sex act, which is exactly and specifically what PZ’s original post did and you objected to.
It’s the difference between “I don’t want to hear about the existence of your wife and you may face violence if you mention that you have a wife” and “I’m not comfortable hearing about what kind of strapon your wife uses”.
It’s the difference between “I don’t want to hear about the existence of your wife and you may face violence if you mention that you have a wife” and “I’m not comfortable hearing about what kind of strapon your wife uses”.
Context also matters. Around the water cooler with co-workers is far different than drunk with boy/girl friends.
Ah, I see now. The more I hear from Ben, the less I like him. Seriously, Ben, would you just listen to what people have to say for once instead of acting like they’re persecuting you?
Have you ever done something so blisteringly stupid that has the potential – if not to cost you your job, then to reduce the ability you have for doing your job and thereby more or less costing you your job – and then due to the nature of your job, HAVE to report it to the people who’ll determine whether it’s worth costing you your job?
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Jerry Alexandratos: thanks, I have to start at the pediatrician, but I know something is going on here and I plan on pushing till someone can adequately determine what and how to help her, which will probably mean referrals.
I’ve been comfortable armchair-diagnosing myself and my son because my time for intervention is past (and self-diagnosing helped me with strategies to manage the issues I do have) and my son has never needed intervention or professional assistance. It gives us a way to better understand for ourselves what might be going on, which is enough, but it’s not my general approach to problems that need specialized solutions.
Jerry and Kristin, re auditory issues: I have never been formally diagnosed with any ASD, but autism runs in my family, and I do have some of the traits. I have a harder time than most people seem to understanding spoken words against background noise. Also, once in a while it takes me a second to “process” something.
I was mortified, some years ago, when I was speaking over the phone to someone I had worked with who had taken a leave of absence after her son died. Rather thoughtlessly, I asked her what he had died of, and she said, “Suicide.”
I immediately said, “Oh,” as if she’d said “cancer” or “car accident.” Then, about a second later, my brain processed it, the weight of it hit me, and I said, “Oh, my god. I am so sorry.” She didn’t seem to notice, fortunately, but, damn, I felt awful for that.
I solved the issue, so I don’t think I’ll get anything but a reprimand, but it’s something that, if I don’t get a sympathetic ear, could seriously reduce the ability I have to do my job…
cicely (Vitamin Fortified!)says
*hugs* for Katherine.
–
PFC Ogvorbis (Yes, they are)says
Have you ever done something so blisteringly stupid that has the potential – if not to cost you your job, then to reduce the ability you have for doing your job and thereby more or less costing you your job – and then due to the nature of your job, HAVE to report it to the people who’ll determine whether it’s worth costing you your job?
Yes. And I have recieved a written reprimand once (out of file in two years (this was fifteen years ago)). And last summer, I reported a mistake that I and a fellow SEC2 had made (he made the mistake, I failed to countermand) and went home from a fire early.
After twenty years of screwing up, all I can say is, no matter how uncomfortable, stupid, or weird, report it right away.
===
Ben:
Legal does not mean ethical; legal does not mean it is okay; legal does not even mean acceptable.
I understand the difficulties extant with freedom of speech as regards photography (I have been hassled by NJ Transit police for taking a photo of a train from a public sidewalk). Try to see the non-photographer point of view in instances like this.
Nutmegsays
*Internet brownies* to all who need them.
*Internet brownies with peanut butter* to those who aren’t allergic.
My friend who had her first break-up seems okay today. She’s being impressively stereotypical – ice cream last night and planning a haircut, pedicure, and shopping trip for this weekend. I guess this is good…? She’s been talking to another friend who actually has social skills, so that’s good.
I wonder what I’ll do the first time someone breaks up with me. Ice cream sounds good, but I might follow it up with shooting some clay pigeons and going fishing for a few days. I have to admit, I enjoy combining conflicting stereotypes and watching people’s brains explode as they try to process it. Free entertainment, and it makes people think.
Thanks to Happiestsadist, Muse, Ms. Daisy Cutter, and kristinc for the thoughtful answers. I’m hearing that there is some variation in how much kink plays a role in identity, so for some it’s in integral part of who they are while for others it’s something they do.
People cope with breakups in a lot of ways, some stereotypical, some less, so. Though it depends on the nature of the breakup. I haven’t had many, so I can’t say a lot.
I was discussing the situation with another group of friends (via IRC), and one made several good points.
<him>Given that what she was doing was a) in a VERY public space, and b) not normal behavior by any stretch of the imagination, I’d tend to put the burden of responsibility on her rather than him.
<him> It was pretty clear from the video that he wasn’t taping “the hot chick” (he wasn’t deliberately position himself to get her crotch, or zooming in on her or anything), he was taping the “weird thing going on on the street”.
<him> He was still an asshole once confronted about it, though.
<him> The first link you posted, they’re also obviously baiting you. Which is a really dick move when you’re claiming to be offended by a position someone took.
<me> May I quote you?
<me> (Anonymously?)
<him> Heh, go ahead. Not sure if “here’s what some random guy I know said about it” will help you out much.
<him> ^, though.
Eskeptrical Engineer: I think something that you do can be a part of your identity. In my case, I’d stick my kink on the same shelf of descriptors as I do my baking, writing short horror fiction, makeup obsession, and clunkie (like a furry, but with robots) interests. So not as immediately discernable from casual meeting as my orientation, gender status and basic appearance, but something general that people learn as they get to know me. I will happily expound on/demonstrate my thoughts on eyeliner, lavender/fresh peach as well as grapefruit/black pepper culinary OTPs, and kink activity preferences if asked, but that’s about it.
Benji, nobody cares what your equally empathy-devoid dudebro buddies have to say.
And you weren’t being “baited.” You were being called out for something you’d done on the previous thread. You’ve been around long enough to notice that conversations frequently continue from thread to thread.
Stop digging, for fuck’s sake.
Happiestsadistsays
Yes, your lurkers who support you in email agree with you that I’m just being a mean, persecutory jerkface for pointing out that your defence of rape-culture shit triggered me. Why am I not surprised that you have friends who enable your misogyny and creepiness?
Happiestsadistsays
Also, Benji, I think it’s really interesting why your friend there thinks he should be anonymous when he’s supporting the indefensible. Maybe you should think about why that is.
There is no defending that action. The woman was okay with the photographer taking her pictures (she probably entered into a contract.) She was not okay with some random guy – who she’d never met before – running up and videotaping her butt.
That’s it. Period. End of argument. The fact that you have to keep on trying to a) defend the position which people’ve explained repeatedly to you is skeevy and b) go elsewhere to try to get some validation on your position is ridiculous, and only serves to make you look like an asshole.
Stop.
Pteryxxsays
Re auditory issues: what Daisy Cutter said, and Happiestsadist said, and that other ass said. I have similar symptoms: background noise, especially other voices, interferes with speech just enough that I can’t make out the specific words, or only grasp them after a few seconds’ delay. The speech TONE comes across just fine – if y’all know that famous guitar solo in “Do You Feel Like We Do” (just looked it up), that’s what speech sounds like to me almost all the time.
If I tweak the volume of a song just right, I can even turn the effect on or off by looking at the lyrics on a page. Open eyes, see text, vocal words disappear. Close eyes, vocal words come back. Sometimes I close my eyes when listening to a classroom lecture to make sure I get it right, because looking at the slides makes the spoken words vanish. Still, I never realized anything was strange until college. (Audiobooks while driving – NOT AN OPTION for me.)
There IS an auditory discrimination test in the full, two-day panel of learning disability tests I took, via a special learning-disability testing clinic. (Here in Texas, you have to be tested and certified as learning-disabled, at some few hundred dollars’ expense, before you’re eligible for accommodations in college.) It consists of picking out words in a recording with gradually increasing background babble.
Most doctors and counselors don’t know anything about auditory discrimination, so while I agree with Alexandratos that it takes specialist consultation to know for sure, that level of care might be hard to come by – so I recommend the book my counselors gave me, “A Mind at a Time” by Mel Levine. It describes a very broad range of specific learning and processing difficulties and how they present in actual cases, along with common-sense simple adaptations to help overcome them. I don’t have my copy with me or I’d cite the relevant section. (It was also very interesting to identify areas where my mind works BETTER than average, which gives confidence and suggests best study strategies for an individual.)
Beatrice, anormalement indécentesays
First breakup (and only, but let’s not go there) : in high school, day before Valentine’s. On the 14th, I went out with my best friend. All the smoochy couples in all the coffee shops and bars depressed me, so we took a walk. A long, long walk, in the freezing cold. And I talked about that ex all evening. If I ever needed proof she was my bestest friend, I think her frostbitten fingers were more than enough.
Most likely you hang out with people who share your points of view, who are likely to be more racistsexist than the general public, and the window of acceptable speech appears to drift in the direction of more racismsexism. But because you’re already used to regarding people who react badly to racismsexism as “hypersensitive,” when you get even more of those negative reactions you just shift further in the direction of blaming them.
And I talked about that ex all evening. If I ever needed proof she was my bestest friend, I think her frostbitten fingers were more than enough.
She in the last sentence is the friend, not the ex.
Pteryxxsays
I have to admit, I enjoy combining conflicting stereotypes and watching people’s brains explode as they try to process it. Free entertainment, and it makes people think.
…Now I’m getting an Internet crush on Nutmeg.
ChasCPetersonsays
Not sure if “here’s what some random guy I know said about it” will help you out much.
that much is certainly correct.
It was pretty clear from the video that he wasn’t taping “the hot chick” (he wasn’t deliberately position himself to get her crotch, or zooming in on her or anything), he was taping the “weird thing going on on the street”.
?
Same video I saw? The videographer was quite obviously focusing on her butt, and only her butt, for a really long time…and then returned to it after the altercation!
The new 7 dwarves:
Creepi, Sleazi, Skeevi, Pervi, Harassi, Benji, and Dudebro.
Re auditory issues: what Daisy Cutter said, and Happiestsadist said, and that other ass said. I have similar symptoms: background noise, especially other voices, interferes with speech just enough that I can’t make out the specific words, or only grasp them after a few seconds’ delay.
Ah! So that’s what it is. I blamed it on hearing loss in my right ear from shooting firearms from a young age.
My wife hates it when I ask her to repeat stuff. She’s getting used to the delay in my responses, though, so I think she’s adjusting.
Creepi, Sleazi, Skeevi, Pervi, Harassi, Benji, and Dudebro.
I admit, I laughed.
PFC Ogvorbis (Yes, they are)says
First Breakup:
I was a freshman in college. She was a senior in high school. We had been going out for over a year. This is the girl who, among other things, got me to go see Petra, and Stryper. She dumped me during Christmas break. Because I had not been saved, and was not interested in being saved, and her minister told her that, by being with me, she was putting her relationship with me above her relationship with Jesus.
And that was my only breakup.
Met Wife a year later and we’ve been together ever since.
Damn, I really am boring.
Happiestsadistsays
Chas @ #165: Oh god, I cackled there.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Kristinc, good luck with the auditory issues. I agree with the suggestion of ASD. I have an ASD, and I have auditory issues up the wazoo. Like, to the extent that I’ve been asked in seriousness if I have a hearing problem (hearing’s fine, processing isn’t). Speaking as someone with an ASD-induced auditory issue, I think it is important to remember that the issue is with the processing. Try to double-up on things, such as by facing the kid and enunciating clearly.
I think a major part of it is that I wasn’t diagnosed with my ASD until I was 19, so I didn’t get any help growing up. Not to say that my problems weren’t noticed when I was young – the shrink my parents took me to told them that as (1) I got good grades in school and (2) I was female, then I couldn’t have an ASD. Because a GREAT thing to tell parents who are beside themselves dealing with an 8-year-old who routinely melts down, gets kicked out of Brownie Scouts, doesn’t get the point of wearing clothing in hot weather, flat-out refuses to memorize her times tables, and thinks that getting up and leaving the classroom during instruction time is appropriate is that she isn’t getting enough discipline. Shrink admitted that a boy with the exact same symptoms would have been diagnosed, but OOPS GIRLS DON’T GET ASD! Your daughter is just willful or some shit and needs to be punished for acting out!
Shrink admitted that a boy with the exact same symptoms would have been diagnosed, but OOPS GIRLS DON’T GET ASD! Your daughter is just willful or some shit and needs to be punished for acting out!
Dear fucking GAWD, do I want to punch Simon Baron-Cohen and anybody else who blithers on about a “male brain.”
Pteryxxsays
Ah! So that’s what it is. I blamed it on hearing loss in my right ear from shooting firearms from a young age.
For what it’s worth, my hearing’s also been tested, and it’s approximately twice as good as human hearing should be, especially for high-pitched noises. I can hear fluorescent lights, projectors, computer monitors, rat feet on upholstery… Once I freaked out and pulled my car over because I could hear a strange ticking noise that nobody else in the car could detect. It turned out to be the (mechanical) odometer clicking over because it had just broken. It’s actually really annoying… I wear earplugs routinely in movie theaters.
So yeah… hearing loss has little to do with it, though hearing loss CAN also cause loss of auditory discrimination or verbal comprehension, particularly in the higher registers.
Dear fucking GAWD, do I want to punch Simon Baron-Cohen and anybody else who blithers on about a “male brain.”
My mind read that wrong and conjured up an image of Dr. Borat
waltonsays
And did you forget the part where the videographer is gay?
Like I said in the last thread, I don’t think this disposes of the question. The blog post you linked about Boots also said:
He figured a video of a sexy girl in tight shorts spreading her legs in a ballerina pose in the middle of Times Square would probably get some attention. And he’s right, although it took a few months for it to go viral since he posted it in May.
While it may well be the case that he had no direct sexual motive of his own, it sounds to me like he intentionally exploited her image to get attention from others, knowing that it would be sexually appealing to some viewers. That isn’t any less exploitative.
And how do you define “erotic purposes”? Should we ban photos of roadkill or elbows and peanut butter?
Again, I think it’s important here to separate the legal issue from the ethical one. Whether it should be legal to photograph people in public places without their consent is an important question, and one that certainly doesn’t have a simple answer; the applicable law varies by jurisdiction.
But observing that a practice is legal, or even arguing that it should be legal on the ground of civil liberties, is not the same thing as arguing that every instance of that practice is morally defensible, worthwhile, or a good idea. Legality and morality are not the same thing. (By way of example, I would defend Fred Phelps’ constitutional right to freedom of speech; that obviously doesn’t imply that I think Fred Phelps’ behaviour or opinions are anything other than grossly abhorrent. I think people should have a right to freedom of religion, but that doesn’t stop me arguing that the beliefs and practices of many religious sects are morally and intellectually unsound. And so on. One can acknowledge that someone has a legal right to do something, while still disagreeing on moral grounds with the way in which they choose to exercise that right.)
In this case, while it may be that the videographer was legally free to do as he did, his particular action and motives seem to me to have been exploitative and morally unjustified. From the information you’ve provided, it’s apparent that his motivation was to draw more attention to himself and his own work, and that he had no qualms about exploiting a video of the young woman in question without her permission in order to achieve that goal.
Honestly, I understand that you agree with and admire Miller in general, but I don’t think that’s a good reason for defending him on an occasion when he’s clearly got something very wrong.
@ Happiestsadist, thanks for elaborating. For me personally, I would put things like reader or vintage clothing fan as less a part of my identity than something like feminism or atheism. I can see, though, that all these things together, large and small, make up who I am.
I realize I am privileged in the sense of my sexual preferences, as I am heterosexual, married, and monogamous. It’s very interesting to hear from others with different experiences, and I very much appreciate your responses.
One thing I do like about here is that you seemingly can just ask “Hey I don’t get this because of my psychology, could someone fill me in” in terms of ASD, ADD, Dyslexia, or being unprivledged.
I had the reverse in my case. My sixth grade teacher tried to get me put on Ritalin because I was acting out in class. She dragged my parents to a meeting, flat out told them “your son has ADD, here’s a checklist.” They looked on the list and saw that not only did I not have ADD, but that my father and mother probably did. Upon questioning the teacher they realized the problem wasn’t that I had ADD, but that I was bored – cause the classwork was way too easy for me, and since I finished ahead of the rest of the students, I had nothing to do for the 15-20 minutes til the end of the designated “classwork” time – because she refused to let me read a book.
Hey, Benjamin, your friend manages victim-blaming 101, has he signed up for the advanced class?
Pteryxxsays
auditory processing again: I forgot to mention, I suspect (with little or no proof) that auditory discrimination could be improved somewhat with gentle, supportive practice. Other kinds of discrimination improve with familiarity, practice, and naming – different kinds of yarn, chess patterns, breeds of dog, sports plays. Those of us with rats can tell whether a photograph is of a rat or mouse (I betcha) while most of the Internet thinks they’re all “hampsters”.
While I’ve been studying important rock music this past couple of weeks, I noticed that *after* I’ve studied the lyrics to a song, then a few listens later I can understand them IN the song, without the visual cue. It takes about three repetitions, and has to be refreshed by regular listening, unlike my memory for visual, kinesthetic or dramatic material. (I now have “Sympathy for the Devil” on a playlist.)
Predator Handshakesays
My First Breakup:
I was 15, she was 14, we had known each other for a few years at church and decided we were “going out” at a youth group trip to Carowinds. I had never kissed a girl before and I still cringe when I remember how bad I was at it during the van ride back home.
Anyway, a few weeks later we had a youth group trip to Florida. Things were going great the first couple of days, but I think my sister might have sabotaged me or something because all of a sudden she decided I wasn’t mature enough for her. During the trip it wasn’t so much that we broke up, but rather she just started ignoring me.
Unfortunately my mother was a chaperone on this trip and she kept bugging me about what was going on, and at that point in my life I had figured out that I’m not comfortable talking to my parents about relationship stuff.
The next day I thought I had an opportunity to ride in on my faithful steed to save my first relationship: she got stung by a jellyfish, and I was going to put my pee on that sting. Alas, not even a fresh cup of urine was enough to compensate for my lack of maturity.
Oddly, once I realized it was over I didn’t really feel the need to try to get back together with her or anything. I ran into her a few times over the years and we both were able to look back and laugh at how young and dumb we were; I even got her phone number and we were going to do a tryout date, but she’s way into cars now and I don’t drive an acceptable make of car (it’s a Honda).
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
It isn’t just Baron-Cohen, Daisy. Until about 15 years ago, only nuts and quacks believed that ASDs could occur in girls. Male-only was the mainstream view.
This is due to the fact that there is a difference between how ASD is commonly manifested – but again, those are tendencies not hard-and-fast rules. So many girls on the spectrum weren’t diagnosed because they weren’t exhibiting the “classical” (read: male) symptoms.
Then someone or another decided to actually study girls and women who had been diagnosed with everything from sociopathy to schizophrenia to mental retardation, unspecified, and concluded that they actually were on the autistic spectrum.
And now that I think about it, her reasoning for not letting me read a book completely didn’t work along with her diagnosis of my having ADD. She wouldn’t let me read because she thought I wouldn’t put it down when classwork period was over…
sisusays
Fuck my state.
VA Senate OKs Bill Allowing Private Agencies to Deny Adoptions Based on Religious Beliefs – in other words “children are better off with no parents than with a gay or lesbian couple.”
(Katherine @145 has the link…)
This is undoubtedly aimed at same-sex parents looking to adopt, but its effect will likely be bigger than that based on the broad wording – the agencies can deny adoption to any potential parent they don’t agree with “based on religious beliefs.” So along with same-sex couples, they can include atheists, single parents, and really anyone who doesn’t fit their narrow guidelines can be denied the opportunity to adopt.
So many girls on the spectrum weren’t diagnosed because they weren’t exhibiting the “classical” (read: male) symptoms.
Just like heart disease. Because, of course, men are the standard, women the deviation.
waltonsays
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck…
Have you ever done something so blisteringly stupid that has the potential – if not to cost you your job, then to reduce the ability you have for doing your job and thereby more or less costing you your job – and then due to the nature of your job, HAVE to report it to the people who’ll determine whether it’s worth costing you your job?
I sympathize. *hugs* Anxiety is very hard to deal with.
All I can say, from experience, is that it usually turns out to be less bad than you think it is.
Oops. Rereading my sentence “I realize I am privileged in the sense of my sexual preferences, as I am heterosexual, married, and monogamous,” I do in fact realize that none of those things are mutually exclusive with kinkiness. I should have had non-kinky (unkinky?) listed specifically, since that’s what we’re discussing at the moment.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Something similar happened to me, Katherine.
My third grade teacher decided that I had ADD/ADHD, due to my acting out in class, blatantly ignoring the lesson, and being a bouncy ball of nerves. After a particularly striking incident, she had enough to give the principal an ultimatum that I be evaluated for ADD/ADHD and given Ritalin, removed from her classroom (probably to be shunted to special ed), or be made to understand that I must not do such things. That was when the trip to the shrink happened. Fortunately, he (I don’t actually remember the shrink, but I’m guessing male) recognized that I didn’t have ADD/ADHD and so I skipped having to go on Ritalin (which has been documented as doing Bad Things to people on the spectrum), but issued his “not ASD, she’s a girl” ruling.
Oh, and I was acting out because I showed up for class one day having answered all of the questions at the end of each chapter in the science book. Correctly. I was scolded for this because I made the other students feel stupid (this happens to smart kids a lot). It also meant that I didn’t need to listen to the lessons – I had memorized the fucking textbook. However, I was expected to sit quietly and listen, even if I was bored out of my mind. I couldn’t even work on homework for other subjects (I was top of the class in some subjects, flunking in others).
Pteryxxsays
Crommunist alert, more must-read material IMHO:
Mr. Williams’ comments are interesting for two chief reasons. First, he works inside the beast. Being a commentator for Fox News means that Mr. Williams gets to see inside the machine that is the propaganda arm of the Republican Party. He is, presumably, intelligent enough to see through the veneer of ‘post-racial’ tolerance that is evinced by that organization and his appointment there. I have little doubt that he shares my suspicions that he is tolerated by Fox News’ audience (and likely management) only until he begins to voice any dissent from the party line, at which point he is “put in his place” by the likes of Gingrich.
(yes, I had to look because of Crommunist + awesome title)
waltonsays
Shrink admitted that a boy with the exact same symptoms would have been diagnosed, but OOPS GIRLS DON’T GET ASD!
Indeed. The stereotype seems to be heavily gendered, to the point that girls and women with autism spectrum disorders get ignored.
It worked in the other direction too: some of my teachers and classmates in school assumed I was autistic, because people have learned through popular culture to assume “geeky, intelligent-seeming boy who has extreme problems with social interaction = autism”. It fits the stereotype. (In fact I’m not autistic. I have anxiety disorder, OCD and unpredictable mood swings, but not autism.)
Pteryxxsays
Eskeptical:
I should have had non-kinky (unkinky?) listed specifically, since that’s what we’re discussing at the moment.
I think the usual term is “vanilla” ? Is that inoffensive enough, everybody?
My third grade teacher decided that I had ADD/ADHD, due to my acting out in class, blatantly ignoring the lesson, and being a bouncy ball of nerves. After a particularly striking incident, she had enough to give the principal an ultimatum that I be evaluated for ADD/ADHD and given Ritalin, removed from her classroom (probably to be shunted to special ed), or be made to understand that I must not do such things.
My mum always says that if I’d been younger, with ADHD being a “fashionable”* diagnosis for difficult students, I would probably have been at least evaluated for it.
I would sit under the table, fool around, not listen…
I was simply bored.
Got me into trouble again in highschool with my English-teacher. He could have accepted my missbehaviour and that I simply refused to do part of the homework hadn’t I been the best student in the class.
He hated me, even years later.
*I don’t deny it exists, I know it does and it needs treatment.
Happiestsadistsays
Vanilla is the most delicious of flavours.
What? I am inexplicably hungry again after a snack just a little bit ago.
I think the usual term is “vanilla” ? Is that inoffensive enough, everybody?
I love vanilla.
I am, generally speaking, uncomfortable with staging this as binaries. I’d rather see it as a continuum.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Vanilla is the most delicious of flavours.
I will challenge this statement with “mint chocolate.”
Incidentally, my autocorrect got all pissy over “flavours.” Apple is Anglophobic!
Pteryxxsays
He hated me, even years later.
Why do people like this go into education?
I think, for the same reason sadistic jerks become cops or go into the military, or misogynists become OB/GYNs… so they can have power over a ready-made pool of victims.
Happiestsadistsays
Mint chocolate is awesome, as is, as I have stated, lavender/peach and black pepper/grapefruit, but I always find myself coming back to vanilla stuff. Which, I suppose, is ironic.
Pteryxxsays
…And I should have added, or pedophiles become sports coaches. I love sports, but I’m not above acknowledging the problem.
Aaaaand, why evangelicals run charities.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
My first breakup was when I was almost 13, the summer between 5th and 6th grades. The only reason I even think of it as serious enough to call a breakup (the relationship certainly wasn’t long, serious or deep) is because the boy involved, only a year older, went full-on mini-stalker on me. He harassed me at school, kept appearing at my door at home, tried to run me over on his bike, and played through the full scale of wooing and professing his love to eventually screaming “bitch” at me, in a way that still disturbs me for how familiar he seemed with the whole process — he had learned it from someone.
Four years later, he turned up at the alternative high school I went to and when he realized he recognized me he threatened to throw me through a window. That time when my mom told the school, the school responded by calling the cops and that was the end of that.
Dude is still out there somewhere, presumably still trying to be romantically involved with women. *shudder*
Pteryxxsays
Also, I like vanilla mixed with dried apricots and chocolate sauce.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Chocolate and vanilla swirled together with whole or chunks of raspberries. :D :D :D
Power.
You know, small people with limited rights.
He always went after kids where he thought the parents would rather side with the teacher than their child. He made a missjudgement with me.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
misogynists become OB/GYNs
I heard of an OB/GYN who berated a patient of his who was 8 months along with a pregnancy that had already manifested pre-eclampsia and placenta previa for calling him at 5 pm on a workday (he was on his way out of the office) because she was bleeding heavily. Like, berated her, yelled at her, called her a horrid bitch, told her that her husband was planning on leaving her, that her baby would probably be retarded, etc etc etc.
She went to hospital anyway. Doc ignored the attending at the hospital calling him, so the other doc had to perform the emergency c-section that she needed because the placenta was fragmenting and the fetus was in distress.
He was then horribly offended when she never saw him again and told everyone she knew about what he’d said. She was damaging his reputation and business!
diannesays
Doc ignored the attending at the hospital calling him, so the other doc had to perform the emergency c-section that she needed because the placenta was fragmenting and the fetus was in distress.
Given the way he was behaving, probably just as well: he might have screwed it up and it sounds like the attending at the hospital did the right thing. Has the patient considered a discussion with the hospital patient advocate, writing a complaint, or escalating up to lawsuit?
Pteryxx/Giliell: I probably should have put in a “/rhetorical” tag.
Giliell: Agree on the continuum thing, especially as sexual mores change over time. In the Victorian age, oral sex was considered perverse and shameful and, therefore, highly daring in pornography. Now it’s considered “vanilla.”
Vanilla bean has a distinctive and delightful flavor that should not be confused with the flavorlessness of white ice cream in a square box from the supermarket. Nor should non-kinky consensual sex acts be dismissed as boring and unimaginative per se. It’s all about what happens in your brain.
As for flavor combinations, I love chocolate with hot pepper, especially chipotle.
Esteleth: I have heard a lot of disturbing stories about ob/gyns, especially but not exclusively in “the good old days,” some of which would require a trigger warning. (I feel the need to add here that I’ve had some extremely professional, capable, and empathetic ones.)
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Dianne, this incident was nearly 60 years ago. She – and her husband – did kick up a fuss, and the end result is that the hospital revoked Dr. Asshole’s privileges. That’s about all that they were able to accomplish.
You’re probably right that he would have fucked up the c-section (or not performed it at all, leaving her to probably hemorrhage).
I have discovered that irregardless is in computer dictionaries…and in autocorrect on my phone. This must not…no
cicely (Vitamin Fortified!)says
Vanilla is the most delicious of flavours.
I will challenge this statement with “mint chocolate.”
…and pecans!
– Leaving to the side the questions of the legality and skeeviness of non-consensually photographing someone for salacious purposes (even if the lust involved wasn’t his, he plainly intended to play to the prurient interests of his intended viewership) and personal profit (meaning, his own exposure/fame/infamy/notoriety), how is it that this guy could essentially publish it without her consent, in the form of a written release? In [Organisation] lots of people take lots of pictures of…lots of people, all the time; but if it comes to publishing in any way, no release = no publication. Is [Organisation] just being cautious beyond-the-call?
–
diannesays
Re grade school: I hated it. Boring and terrifying at the same time. I finished the work early and read most of the time in class, but really, really hated recess, gym, and all the other times where peer interaction was unavoidable. I still get frightened when I walk into a school-this is why my partner takes my daughter to school. I’m still amazed that the kid doesn’t appear to fear her peers. She even seems to like them. Amazing what recessive genes can do for you.
I love my OB/Gyn
He was the first male one I had, and it was more or less coincidence (he works with my midwives and since I couldn’t have my regular OB/Gyn, well I had little choice)
I know there are many women who reject him for having a muslim name (actually he’s from the former USSR but has been living here for ages. His son was my OB/Gyn at the university hospital. I was always expecting little “love to mum” notes at the end of my medical letters), but he’s one of the most caring medical professionals I’ve ever met.
Our first encounter was finished with him giving me his card and telling me that I should call whenever I needed to, not matter if it were easter, pentecoast or whatever else we celebrate.
Cured me from the silly “I prefer a woman OB/Gyn because she’s a woman, too” idea*
Vanilla bean has a distinctive and delightful flavor that should not be confused with the flavorlessness of white ice cream in a square box from the supermarket. Nor should non-kinky consensual sex acts be dismissed as boring and unimaginative per se. It’s all about what happens in your brain.
This.
I know that all those modern liberated ideas about sex almost made me throw away the love of my life because I was so screwed up in my head that I thought I couldn’t have a fullfilled sex-life if I only ever had one partner.
*I totally understand that there are other reasons for insisting on a female doc.
PFC Ogvorbis (Yes, they are)says
I have discovered that irregardless is in computer dictionaries…and in autocorrect on my phone. This must not…no
When do we throw in the proverbial towel and decide that irregardless is, regardless of the combined willpower of every English major (and huge numbers of other educated people), a word? After, many other words are added to the English language: za, doh, qi, zek, zuz, and zugzwang come immediately to mind (Yes, I do play Scrabble. Why do you ask?), so, irregardless of our worthy cringing, why not just give in to the uneducated masses and save ourselves the heartache? And then buy a bottle of Patron and get tequila-faced in sorrow?
Therrinsays
Predator Handshake,
The next day I thought I had an opportunity to ride in on my faithful steed to save my first relationship: she got stung by a jellyfish, and I was going to put my pee on that sting. Alas, not even a fresh cup of urine was enough to compensate for my lack of maturity.
I had to stop reading for a minute until I finished laughing. -.-
waltonsays
I’ve been feeling stressed, anxious and tense all week, and I don’t even know why. :-/ I hate it when this happens.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Aww, hang in there, Walton.
Brownies and tea shall be leaking out of your USB shortly.
Nutmeg, when a good friend of mine’s daughter committed suicide I went over and raked their yard. They understood.
Also, their yard really needed raking and I’m a lousy baker.
KGsays
so, irregardless of our worthy cringing, why not just give in to the uneducated masses and save ourselves the heartache? – PFC Ogvorbis
Never! We will fight them on the beaches, we will fight them on the landing grounds, we will fight them in the woods and in the fields, we will fight them in the hills, we will never surrender, irregardless of…
I’ve mentioned here like a billion times that I’m a submissive, to the point that I’m pretty sure many of the regulars remember that about me. Yet I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned what specifically I do in bed
Yep. Most of the folks here know I’m bi and not vanilla, however, I keep the details to myself.
Happiestsadistsays
SC @ #205: We’ve got plenty of furries in here, any reason it’s weirder/stupider with robots?
A. Rsays
Got a letter from the grant committee today, one of my smaller grants got funded! (Now to polish the latest proposal)
Simple: Taking photos in a public space is not a criminal act.
It’s not that simple. In the U.S., if you take a photo of a person and plan to use that photo for commercial purposes, you must have a legal release. If you don’t have one and attempt to use the photo commercially (such as sell it) and get caught, it is, indeed, a criminal act.
I don’t shoot people, even though I find them interesting enough. I find it altogether too awkward (although I don’t have this problem with drawing. Hmmm.) I know several amazing, successful photographers who do specialize in people/public places/urban photography though, and the one thing they aren’t is an utter asswipe like you are, Benjamin. They understand people, they understand that what they do is intrusive with the potential to be upsetting to some people.
As a photographer myself, I wish I had the power to strip you of your gear. You have too much ugly in your head and too little empathy to be invading people with a camera.
KGsays
I think the usual term is “vanilla” ? Is that inoffensive enough, everybody?
Hey, I can relate to that! I can only really get off if my partner is drenched in vanilla essence, then enclosed in a huge mock vanilla pod made of the woven strands from real vanilla pods and filled with vanilla ice-cream, which I then suck out of a small opening through a vanilla straw (like a cheese straw, but vanilla). Then we swap places. Is that what you meant?
KGsays
Alas, not even a fresh cup of urine was enough to compensate for my lack of maturity.
Moraji Desai, one-time Prime Minister of India, drank a cup of his own urine every day, and lived to the age of 99.
.
.
.
.
.
Just think how long he might have lived if he hadn’t been such an idiot.
diannesays
Cured me from the silly “I prefer a woman OB/Gyn because she’s a woman, too” idea*
All other things being equal (which, of course, they never are), I prefer a female OB/gyn for one reason: smaller average hand size.
SC @ #205: We’ve got plenty of furries in here, any reason it’s weirder/stupider with robots?
Sorry! I didn’t mean to imply in any way that I thought it was weird or stupid. Many sexual proclivities and associated things and the names people give them make me giggle, and that was the first time I’d heard of this particular one. Are there other such furry-like phenomena?
waltonsays
I should add that I don’t know anything much about applicable federal or state law governing photography in public places and consent – it’s way outside my field of expertise, and the issue has never arisen for me – nor do I know the laws applicable in the relevant jurisdiction (in this case, New York). I don’t have time to research it right now, as I have to go to class in five minutes, although I’m happy to do so later if need be. So I don’t know whether what the videographer did was legal or not; my comments above proceeded on the assumption that it was, but that might be wrong. But even if it was legal, his actions seem to me to have been unethical and exploitative, and I’d be upset if someone were to do that with my image without my consent.
Happiestsadistsays
SC: Ahh, okay. Sorry as well, I’m used to getting laughed at for it. It does have a ridiculous name, I will grant. Also, as a thing, it is full of the creepiest dudes on Earth, who really just are into it because actual women enrage and terrify them, so I’m not very active in any kind of groups. I have met a few awesome ones here and there, though. I don’t know about any other such groups.
Pre-emptive answering of the most asked other questions about it: No, I don’t really like Transformers, yes, I do love Data and yes, I was a big Astro Boy fan as a kid. Related: I’m a Cyborg, But That’s Okay is one of the best movies ever made and it made me weepy and squeeful.
Walton: I like having your legal perspective in this. I will admit, I find it sometimes a herd of teal deer, but you are illustrating pretty well the nuances about the legal issues around it. And thanks for the reiteration of legal versus moral and the latter carrying weight too.
KG: Is it sick and wrong that I think that sounds kind of fun? Not like in a sexy way, just as a sensation-y thing. Aside from the straw, you could likely market it as a spa service and make up some woo-filled stuff about it balancing the something or other and make millions. (Okay, maybe I rant a lot about cosmetic woo.) Also, I am now trying to figure out how to make vanilla straws, and how exactly that would be that different from my biscotti-baking obsession.
dianne
Hmm, yeah, with all things equal, probably. BUt, well, I doubt that there actually exist two OB/Gyns who are completely alike except their gender ;)
++++
But even if it was legal, his actions seem to me to have been unethical and exploitative, and I’d be upset if someone were to do that with my image without my consent.
Which is the major point, I think.
I remember once taking a picture of about 20 elderly gentlemen in a small Spanish village. They had come to the town square after their siesta and sat on a wall chatting with each other.
Asking them half-ruined the picture, because then they all smiled into the camera, but not asking would have been unthinkable.
To me.
Tethyssays
Caine
however, I keep the details to myself.
This! Open about sexuality = healthy. Sharing intimate details = TMI and frequently cringe inducing. I really did not need to read the details about asshole atheist and the banana story in that other thread. (don’t look if you’ve managed to miss it)
On a completely different note, how is the ginormous puzzle coming along? I had no idea they made them that big. That’s probably a good thing though, I would get so obsessive about finishing it I would forget to eat or sleep.
KGsays
KG: Is it sick and wrong that I think that sounds kind of fun? – Happiestsadist
No – and presumably I do too, at some level, or the riff on it wouldn’t have occurred to me! I certainly like vanilla (the flavour) – for me, really good vanilla ice-cream can’t be beat by any other flavour.
Happiestsadistsays
The very best ice cream I’ve ever had was rose-lemon, made in a tiny batch (like four servings tiny) by my best friend. Aside from trapping her in my kitchen forever and supplying her with ingredients, I agree, KG. Good vanilla ice cream is the best kind that I’ve seen for purchase.
On a completely different note, how is the ginormous puzzle coming along? I had no idea they made them that big. That’s probably a good thing though, I would get so obsessive about finishing it I would forget to eat or sleep.
Oh, I don’t have the ginormous one yet, Imma working on the 3,000 piece Wild Strawberries Orchard. It’s going *slow*. Very, very slow. I need a lot more table to be able to lay pieces out on, I think. And yes, I get obsessive about it, too. :D
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
I’m currently in the thriving metropolis of Braselton GA running IT support and giving a few presentations at our annual sales meeting.
Tonight we go to Dave and Busters with all the officers and directors and 40 some odd sales force for a “fellowship” excursion.
Please help me.
mcwafflesays
@224
Reminds me of Spinal Tap, but maybe that’s just the Pod part.
Katherine Lorraine @ 161: why yes, yes I have. Write it up, tell a friendly supervisor (if you have a choice between friendly and unfriendly) before sneding it out. They may be able to help with the wording to put your best foot forward.
Moggiesays
Please help me.
The good thing about IT is that you can always manufacture an emergency which will give you an excuse to miss annoying meetings etc. Er, so I’ve heard. Cough.
Ice cream: tonight I tried Heston Blumenthal’s mustard ice cream. Meh. I can imagine it being quite successful accompanying something strongly flavoured, but on its own it was a disappointment. I was hoping for it to have a real mustardy kick, but it’s too mild.
Nutmegsays
Pteryxx:
…Now I’m getting an Internet crush on Nutmeg.
*blushes* I have Internet crushes on large portions of the Thread already.
Predator Handshake:
The next day I thought I had an opportunity to ride in on my faithful steed to save my first relationship: she got stung by a jellyfish, and I was going to put my pee on that sting.
That is the best thing I’ve heard all day.
Thanks for all the first breakup stories. I don’t have one of my own to share with my friend yet, as I’ve only ever gotten to a third date. I’m not entirely certain how I frightened that guy away. I gather that I’m supposed to do something more than just hold a guy’s hand by the third date? Oops.
changeable monikersays
Not caught up (and probably never will be until either the weekend or someone at TPOW™ complains that banning FTB doesn’t square* with the official diversity policy), but …
Kid #1’s I-don’t-want-to-go-to-sleep-and-I’m-going-to-stop-you-eating-dinner-while-it’s-hot question tonight: “what’s a black hole”?
Space, mass, gravity, force, light, photons, mass of the photon, event horizon, yes there are probably billions, no, no-one (at least from Earth) has fallen into one (but how would we know?), wave-particle duality, the big bang, inflation, the cosmic microwave background.
These were required to answer the question fully and satisfactorily.
I managed to avoid Hawking radiation, information, and entropy. Phew.
changeable moniker
Well, I see it’s getting more interesting when they grow up. Mine are still in the “I need to pee/ I want a drink/ there’s a wolf in the nursery” phase.
It’s also one of the things they never told you about. They told you about the sleepless nights and that you’d be wiping shit off asses. But nobody ever mentioned that for years you wouldn’t get to eat a hot, quiet dinner
anybody hear Denzel’s comments the Today show and Letterman about atheist and sociopaths?
sisusays
It’s not that simple. In the U.S., if you take a photo of a person and plan to use that photo for commercial purposes, you must have a legal release. If you don’t have one and attempt to use the photo commercially (such as sell it) and get caught, it is, indeed, a criminal act.
That’s not accurate. If it were true, there would be no TMZ, no paparazzi, and no supermaket magazines analyzing “who has the best bikini body??” Some famous people do have some rights around their images, but in general, you do not have the right to not be photographed when you’re out in public. There’s no expectation of privacty in a public place.
Happiestsadistsays
I just looked that up, djbuster08. That is some seriously ignorant shit. And ignores the high correlation between Right-Wing Authoritarian thinking as well as oh, sex offences against children both being very strongly correlated with religious adherence.
sisusays
(which is not to suggest that what he did was okay. There’s a big difference between “right” and “legal” and this action crossed the “right” line.)
Therrinsays
That book (George’s Secret Key to the Universe) sounds awesome:
It was all designed to give George a natural and improving upbringing, free from toxins, additives, radiation, and other such evil phenomena. The only problem was that in getting rid of everything that could possibly harm George, his parents had managed to do away with lots of things that would also be fun for him. George’s parents might enjoy going on environmental protest marches or grinding flour to make their own bread, but George didn’t. He wanted to go to a theme park and ride on the roller coasters or play computer games or take an airplane somewhere far, far away. Instead, for now, all he had was his pig.
Actually, the law is quite clear when it comes to public photography of people for commercial purposes. That’s why you can sue over someone selling your image for profit. It’s rarely worth the time, cost and hassle of suing, however, so most people simply live with the intrusion. A majority of people who have their photo taken in public places are unaware of it, they aren’t celebs or anything, so if someone uses the photo commercially, chances are they will never find out. It’s a murky mess in that regard, granted. Ethically, it’s flat out wrong.
changeable monikersays
We’re sticking with Doctor Who, The Impossible Planet. For now. ;)
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Given that what she was doing was a) in a VERY public space, and b) not normal behavior by any stretch of the imagination, I’d tend to put the burden of responsibility on her rather than him.
It was pretty clear from the video that he wasn’t taping “the hot chick” (he wasn’t deliberately position himself to get her crotch, or zooming in on her or anything), he was taping the “weird thing going on on the street”.
He was still an asshole once confronted about it, though.
The first link you posted, they’re also obviously baiting you. Which is a really dick move when you’re claiming to be offended by a position someone took.
May I quote you?
(Anonymously?)
Heh, go ahead. Not sure if “here’s what some random guy I know said about it” will help you out much.
^, though.
Oh fuck off, Ben. This is the difference between you and me.
Women don’t get close to me because I’m shy and tend to keep my best qualities hidden for those who look for them. This is unfortunate, but partially ‘my own fault’ for being the way I am.
Women flat out don’t want to be around you because you set off their survival instincts. There’s no other way to put it. You don’t make them feel safe or comfortable. I’m not even a woman, and you make me feel gross and skeevy and probably a bit unsafe, were we in the same physical space.
I’m so done being charitable or merciful to the likes of you.
If anything, it’s creepy fuckwads JUST LIKE YOU who ensure that this is a world where women are very, VERY careful about approaching strange males with possible romantic intentions. Thanks a lot, asshole.
Here you have women, as in those people you want to get close to, telling you why this is creepy and uncomfortable, and so you give us this fucking quote of your stupid friend agreeing with you. Instead of, you know, listening to the women.
Benjamin, read Walton @ 175. Then read it again.
He’s trying to help.
I personally have a HUGE problem with ‘you have no right to privacy in public’ and an even bigger problem with ‘cops can record you, but it’s wiretapping to record them’.
So I would support the filmographer’s rights. But it was skeezy to the max.
Furthermore, Benjamin Fucking Geiger, I have a feeling your stupid friend hasn’t seen you pull this same shit, time and time again, making every relationship related discussion about yourself, constantly creeping out and driving off the people here who make the mistake of reaching out to you or trying to help, and possibly worst of fucking all, making a bunch of bullshit suicide threats and implications because you know that no one here wants to see anyone kill themselves, even a sack of crap like you.
That’s the one I’d personally drive a boot up your ass for. Many of us here know people who died that way, and for you to use it as a selfish little fucking plea for pity is beyond repugnant.
And don’t think I can’t recognize what you’re doing with the constant nickname changes. It was one of my favorite games to play back in my IRC trolling days. It’s not as funny here.
I caught that discussion over at WEIT. All I needed to know was that in the end, he advocates “Liberals understanding and compromising with Conservatives” or some such hogwash. No dice Mooney.
Now for something positive to wash the shitstink away:
Took the ex and the kid to the sushi/coffee place on the corner again. God they love us there. We’re always getting random stuff ‘on the house’ and little treats for the babby. Today they gave me an order of California rolls for free.
The babby has developed a liking for the imitation crabmeat found within, and I just love how she eats it right off the end of the chopsticks.
And she’s SO POLITE IN PUBLIC PLACES. Can any of you think of any other toddler whose favorite things to do involve sitting down to a nice meal at a public place and saying ‘please’ and ‘thank you’? And it’s not like she’s just ‘behaving’. She actually seems to like acting that way.
I know it probably won’t last, but I love it while it does.
Anyways, today they took a photo of us for their wall. And the babby said ‘Cheeeeese!’ when the camera was pointed at her.
That corner place has gone through a few owners… I’m seriously hoping these people last for a good while. They run a really great place.
Caine – “YES! I finally found that stupid piece of the puzzle! ”
I bet a rat hid it from you.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
I think I’ll give them a stupidly big tip next time I’m there just to see what they do.
changeable monikersays
Thank FSM that TLC and I never met up as barefoot youngsters.
Thank your lucky stars you never met the Dutch guy I used to work with. He has a pyro addiction and eight-and-a-half fingers.
Happiestsadistsays
Aww, that’s pretty adorable, TLC. I’ve never heard of a toddler who was all about nice dinners out aside from me (from what I’ve heard from the parents, I could be bribed into being good for other things with a good restaurant meal). Sounds like a nice restaurant as well. :)
Also, thank you again. And you never seemed like him to me FWIW.
When I was a child I was taught to say please and thank you, but I took it on my own initiative one night when we all went out to dinner at a fancy restaurant (… when I got bored at the table and asked to be excused …) to be the doorman at the restaurant and open the door and welcome other patrons in.
They thought I was cute. I haven’t thought about that for 50 years. Thanks TLC.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
The Sailor: D’aaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
changeable monikersays
@theophonte, that’s a to some extent an MPI-ECHAM vs. HadGEM<version> shootout, rather than definitive proof:
“In the Barents-Kara Sea we might have discovered a powerful feedback mechanism,” Dr Petoukhov said.
[vs.]
other complexities are almost certainly influencing the current cold spell. “There is a pretty clear link between the current event and the upper level winds.
HadGEM folks have been arguing about this for the last ten years. It’s not particularly clear what the answer is.
Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottlesays
Hi, Hoarde! Remember me?!?!
*passes out on floor from exhaustion*
Me neither!
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
WTF, I typed a long comment, submitted it, and it hasn’t posted. I tried reposting it (I copypasta my posts out of habit, due to wonky internet), and got the “you already said that” error.
Esteleth: Your comment might’ve gotten caught in the spam filter. There’s no notification when that happens; but you can still get duplicate-comment blockage. That exact thing happened to me when I tried to link to “Why I’m Funny”.
I suggest taking out links or suspicious words such as medication names, and attempting to resubmit.
—
Asking them half-ruined the picture, because then they all smiled into the camera, but not asking would have been unthinkable.
To me.
…I soooort of solved that problem.
I take the picture, and then ask everyone in it AFTERwards. Then delete if they say no. (I can show them the picture, too.)
—
The next day I thought I had an opportunity to ride in on my faithful steed to save my first relationship: she got stung by a jellyfish, and I was going to put my pee on that sting.
Yellow Knighting!
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Hmpth. Maybe it was the length. Here’s the first part:
My bicycle has a severe case of the sads. And by “sads,” I mean “two flat and dry-rotted tires and a rusted-out chain.” So I took it to a shop after work. They will sell me new tires, inner tubes, and chain, install all of the above, plus tighten and lube everything up for $200.
Which is more than I paid for the bike, but whatever. I deliberately picked the nicest tires in the store (Kevlar tires are now a thing, apparently), so they’ll last and I’ll be increasing the bike’s value. I like. I will then start riding it to work. Woohoo!
In less cheerful news, I had a checkup today. New job, new town, new doc. Doc informed me that my blood pressure, etc. are all good, but ZOMG I have a BMI of 27.5. Doc proceeded to lecture me about this for 10 minutes. Now, I am fucking aware of the fact that I’m carrying 15 or so extra pounds around. I am working on bringing that down – the safe way, which is to say the SLOW way of eating 2,000 calories a day and running on the treadmill for 30 minutes every day. I mentioned this fact, got a fucking HANDWAVE and told that I need to get my weight below 150 like now because family history of diabetes and heart problems and hypertension and Alzheimer’s (?!) ZOMG DEATHFAT.
He then informed me that I have hyperthyroidism (yep, I know) and that this was making me fat (?!), so I needed to go on thyroid-suppressing drugs or maybe get mine removed. At this point, I very calmly informed him that (1) his knowledge of the thyroid/metabolism balance was exactly backwards and (2) my medical records clearly indicated that I’d had a total thyroidectomy 5 years ago, together with a note from my endocrinologist mandating artificially induced hyperthyroidism to suppress thyroid regrowth. His response was to demand if I ever planned on getting pregnant, because if I did I’d probably pass my DEATHFAT onto my poor, innocent baby if I didn’t “learn some self-control.”
I gathered my stuff and stormed out at that point. Jebus.
The thing that bothers me the most? If that’s how he treats someone with a BMI in the “slightly overwieght” range, I fucking DO NOT WANT TO KNOW how he treats his heavier patients. Also, he is fired from being my doctor, effective immediately.
I take the picture, and then ask everyone in it AFTERwards. Then delete if they say no. (I can show them the picture, too.)
The rare times people have been my subjects, I’ve used the same strategy.
firstapproximationsays
clunkie (like a furry, but with robots)
“Sex with robots is more common than most people think.” – Spike
sisusays
@Caine 249: but not a crime, right? I mean, I guess I can see a federal tort, but not a crime. I have to say, this is WAY far outside my usual realm of practice-of-law, but I sure thought I had some idea of what I was talking about. Live and learn, I guess.
Ethically, it’s flat out wrong.
and yep, we’re in agreeance here.
Happiestsadistsays
Holy fuck, Esteleth, I’m sorry you had to deal with a quack like that. I was talking with a friend the other night, and it turned out we both had similar reactions to a medication: a blood pressure spike. Funny thing, the doctor scolded her about needing to lose weight, and mine mentioned that it was a possible side effect of the drug and we’d have to watch it. Just guess which one of us is fat.
Pteryxx, Caine: That would scare the fuck out of me (likely, more so if you were dudes), but it does seem the most reasonable and workable solution for the non-traumatized.
My mum always says that if I’d been younger, with ADHD being a “fashionable”* diagnosis for difficult students, I would probably have been at least evaluated for it.
Yah, if I’d been the same fractious, distracted 2nd-grader 10 years later than I actually was, I’d’a probably been medicated to the gills… instead of being skipped up to 3rd grade mid-year, which is what actually happened.
I absolutely get the importance of diagnosing and treating this condition… but I’ve never been able to stop feeling like I dodged a bullet.
SC @ #205: We’ve got plenty of furries in here, any reason it’s weirder/stupider with robots?
Any reason something has to be weird or stupid in order to be surprising or amusing? I didn’t detect any criticism or meanspiritedness in SC’s comment, nor can I recall any kink-unfriendliness in her commenting history. Rather the opposite, IIRC.
Hugs of whatever flavor you need. I can think of a few things that would be in the “must report” category in my business, and none of them fun… but in every case, the reporting is better than not. Here’s hoping your bosses recognize the value they have in you.
Also, is your USB compatible with homemade curried butternut squash soup? I know it’s not brownies, but… ;^)
***
All:
The conversation about whether/how kink is orientational has been fascinating. <ProudDad>As I may have mentioned a few dozen times before, my daughter is a cofounder and editor of the (award-winning!) LGBT student magazine Q at Yale</ProudDad>, and IIRC the staff had a conversation, in the process of trying to clearly understand the scope of their audience, about whether straight/cis kinksters fall under the umbrella term queer. I’m not sure what they finally decided, but I’m curious what y’all think: Straight/cis kinky Pharynguloids, do y’all think of yourselves as queer folk? Enquiring minds want to know!
As I explained later downthread, Bill Dauphin, I’m used to frostier/meaner receptions.
Honestly? I think the use of the “queer” label by straight and cis people is pretty much completely disgustingly unacceptable and appropriative. But then, I am neither of those descriptors myself. Kink definitely has potential as a means of defying a heteronormative and cissupremacist culture through attacking some of the assumptions underlying, but I think it’s inappropriate to deem it by itself a radical act.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
My relation to the label queer is probably close to the relation of a decent male ally to the label feminist, if that makes sense. I think I fall under the umbrella of what the term describes but I hesitate to claim the label for myself because as a gender-appearance-conforming, cis straight woman it feels like not a fight in which I do the heavy lifting, and I don’t want to step on toes.
firstapproximationsays
Benjamin “Athier Than Ever” Geiger,
Happiestsadist/Ms. Daisy Cutter:
If you two are done hoggling over me, could we move on?
It must be horrible for you to see someone being hatefully obsessed over something and having that person make you feel uncomfortable.
Can anyone on The Thread imagine what that’s like?
Pteryxxsays
Awesome Jen post handing out the tools to take down the Catholic objections to providing birth control:
The Obama administration mandated that health insurers cover birth control, and the ongoing drama is being framed in respect of the repression of poor, poor Catholics. How dare the government infringe on their freedom to police women’s bodies through their religion, blah blah blah. The next time someone brings up the Catholic aspect, obliterate it with the following three points:
waltonsays
While reiterating that I’m not an expert on this area, I’ve just done some research in an attempt to answer the legal question.
In the United States, it is in some circumstances a tort – the “tort of appropriation” – to appropriate someone’s “name, likeness or identity” without their consent for the purposes of commerce. This is an issue governed by state law, not federal law, so the applicable law varies from state to state. For present purposes, in New York, there is a specific statutory right: NY CLS Civ R § 51 provides that any person whose “name, portrait, picture or voice is used within this state for advertising purposes or for the purposes of trade”, without his or her written consent, has grounds to sue for an injunction and for damages. Many other states have similar statutes.
So if, say, someone were to take your picture without your consent and use it in an advertising campaign to promote their product, you would likely have grounds to sue them. There are various exceptions: this does not apply to news reporting of “newsworthy” events, or to artistic works, for instance.
Obligatory disclaimer: this is not legal advice. This is just some cursory legal research I’ve done in the hope of clarifying the issue a little. If you have any actual legal issues related to photography, consult a lawyer.
(Sources: Goldstein, Ariella, “Privacy from Photography: Is There A Right Not To Be Photographed Under New York State Law?”, 26 Cardozo Arts & Ent LJ 233 (2008); Nussenzweig v. DiCorcia, 11 Misc. 3d 1051A (New York Supreme Court, 2006); Messenger v. Gruner & Jahr Printing & Publishing, 94 N.Y.2d 436 (New York Court of Appeals, 2000); Barnett, Stephen, “The Right to One’s Own Image: Publicity and Privacy Rights in the United States and Spain”, 47 Am. J. Comp. L. 555 (1999))
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
IIRC the staff had a conversation, in the process of trying to clearly understand the scope of their audience, about whether straight/cis kinksters fall under the umbrella term queer. I’m not sure what they finally decided, but I’m curious what y’all think: Straight/cis kinky Pharynguloids, do y’all think of yourselves as queer folk? Enquiring minds want to know!
I don’t personally consider myself ‘queer’.
My personal ‘kink’, which I haven’t indulged in a long time, is being bit and scratched. Hard. Go watch some footage of lions or leopards doing it and you’ll see what I mean.
I can’t, for the life of me, think of a label for it. It’s not really a dominance/submission thing either. I think animal behaviorists call it ‘ritualized aggression’.
I still think that the ritualized aggression is the reason, even though the ex and I have been through betrayal, cheating, drugs, and death/near death*, we never once had a true yelling fight. The worst we’ve ever had is slightly raised voices. Because I knew she was capable of ripping my face off if I didn’t respect her.
Annnyways… I have no real useful opinion on expanding the term ‘Queer’, but I will be following whatever discussion follows with interest.
*depends how you define ‘death’.
Pteryxxsays
Happiestsadist:
Kink definitely has potential as a means of defying a heteronormative and cissupremacist culture through attacking some of the assumptions underlying, but I think it’s inappropriate to deem it by itself a radical act.
I don’t know much about the cultural aspects, but I’d say where kink DOES become radical is versus sex-negative and consent-negative culture (basically, rape culture… is it appropriate to say rape-normative?)
Planning a large event is very stressful, and it’s only just begun. But, if I can pull this off, it’s going to be awesome! I’ll be the best vice president Freethinkers has ever had (at least in my own mind)!
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
I don’t personally consider myself ‘queer’.
FUCKING BRAINFART. I meant to expand that, and add “But I think the idea of possibly expanding it to include straight kinks is possibly cool.”
There’s also an element of privilege here, I’d of course prefer to know what people who actually consider themselves queer think.
I don’t know how to classify it. All I know is that if you plan to use a photo commercially, you are supposed to have a legal release (there are specific forms to use). If you get caught using a photo without one, you can be forced to remove photos, hand over negatives, be sued and you can have charges pressed against you. The last pretty much never happens, as most people simply want photos removed and possibly recompense. Even celebs will rarely sue, because that keeps you on the front pages longer than a photo.
Unfortunately, it’s really, really easy to get away with being a sleazeball when it comes to photography.
Happiestsadist:
That would scare the fuck out of me
As I said, I rarely shoot people. Personally, I loathe having my photo taken, so I tend to project my own feelings onto others and stay away from people as subjects.
Pteryxxsays
@Walton, thanks very much for the proto-legal advice!
@TLC… I not only bite, I wrestle and pin. Fortunately partner likes this (and engages in pre-emptive licking.) >_>
How the heck do you people read this much this fast with any kind of comprehension? I’m practically stream-of-consciousness here, if I don’t take an hour to construct a studious, careful, 14-page-long Marjanovic-style reply.
waltonsays
Actually, the law is quite clear when it comes to public photography of people for commercial purposes. That’s why you can sue over someone selling your image for profit. It’s rarely worth the time, cost and hassle of suing, however, so most people simply live with the intrusion. A majority of people who have their photo taken in public places are unaware of it, they aren’t celebs or anything, so if someone uses the photo commercially, chances are they will never find out. It’s a murky mess in that regard, granted. Ethically, it’s flat out wrong.
Indeed. Having just researched the question (see my #286), it seems, as far as I can tell, that in most states it is a tort (either statutory or common-law, depending on the state) to photograph someone and use their likeness for the purposes of advertising or trade without their consent. But having just looked briefly at the NY case-law, the courts have carved out broad exceptions for news reporting and for artistic works (even where these are produced for profit), so it’s not a particularly clear area of law. To be on the safe side, a photographer is probably better off getting written consent wherever possible.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Caine:
As I said, I rarely shoot people. Personally, I loathe having my photo taken, so I tend to project my own feelings onto others and stay away from people as subjects.
I have a weird personal rule about photography. If they ask permission and I grant it, there’s a caveat: They can photograph me, but it must be like wildlife photography. No asking me to pose and smile, or at least keep it to a bare minimum. They must snap photos of me from interesting angles when I’m totally not expecting it.
It’s the only way for me to get photos of myself where I don’t feel like I look like an idiot. Besides, posing sucks. I don’t hate being photographed, I hate posing for them.
So basically I give them permission to take pictures of me without my permission for the night.
Pteryxx @ #288: That would be precisely the aspect that I was thinking about, though I have seen stuff from male subs about the need to dismantle the narrow definition of “man”, and using their kink as a counter to that.
TLC@ #290: Well, I’ve pretty much given my stance on it. It’s actually not that great being part of the alphabet soup, though we do love help from allies*. As to what to call what you like, I personally call it “a hell of a lot of fun”, but that’s me.
*Actual allies
Caine @ #292: As I said, it’s reasonable for people who aren’t fucked up like me. I should not be a baseline for pretty much anything. The fucked up thing? I actually generally am very okay with having my picture taken. Provided people ask. Need a model for a portfolio? If I’m free, I’m good. Want to get one of me while I’m shirtless at Pride? Because you asked, yes, and thank you for offering to obscure my face and have it be all arty and mostly-shouldery. You, creepy guy who just whipped out your camera there and took a pic after I said no? I’m going to get all up in your grill and make you delete it. Which will lead to you threatening me, and me staring your ass down.
*ahem*
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
A.R: Is it possible, that he’s trying to somehow ‘run with it’ and act like it doesn’t bother him or something?
Because without the lack of self awareness, it kinda sounds scary. Like he’s aware that all he’s doing is spewing vile feces across the face of his country.
My sincere apologies. I’m glad I asked. This will not be forgotten.
No need for them, I wasn’t thinking of you, TLC. I understand if people who enjoy kink would like a specific label or set of labels, some of which are already out there and available. I think if people want to create their own, that’s great, not a problem at all. I simply don’t see why co-opting what others have fought long and hard for would be okay. Why adopt queer when it has a specific meaning and you don’t fit that meaning?
If people look to start stuffing pretty much everyone under the queer label, it loses all meaning.
“Want to understand Republicans? First understand evolution.” Mooney’s thesis is that the difference between conservatives and liberals is based on differences in their genes…
Uhhhhhhhh.
Esteleth: Jesus. Report that doctor to whatever authority he answers to. And leave a review of him on RateMDs.com. He’s dangerous and I’m not kidding.
Bill Dauphin:
Straight/cis kinky Pharynguloids, do y’all think of yourselves as queer folk?
Emphatically no. Appropriation City.
Janine, #280: Not just the odious Cal Thomas but a lot of people in that crowd.
Coincidentally, I was told tonight by a Planned Parenthood worker that she’s had forced-birthers yell “Your mother should have aborted YOU!!” right in her face, like the loving, compassionate xtians they are.
Happiestsadist: Kink definitely has potential to be subversive. And I agree with Pteryxx that negotiation of consent is a powerful tool against rape culture and the assumption of consent by default.
But, just going by demographics, kink probably reinforces traditional gender roles more often than not. People in the U.S. tend to be conservative, and most people don’t have sex to make a statement — they have sex to get off, and we don’t choose what pushes our buttons. I don’t think that’s necessarily wrong, so long as everything is consensual and nobody lands in the hospital or morgue, but by the same token it’s not radical, and being into it doesn’t equal being oppressed. (And I realize I’m preaching to the choir, as it were. :))
TLC: I’d just call that a “biting/scratching kink.”
Pteryxx: I skim as much as I can get away with. But I’m also a very fast typist.
You, creepy guy who just whipped out your camera there and took a pic after I said no?
Ooooh, that’s seriously creepy and over the line. The one time I do a fuckton of people shots is at wacipi (powwow) every year. I know most of the people and they know I won’t use any of my photos commercially.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OMsays
I think the use of the “queer” label by straight and cis people is pretty much completely disgustingly unacceptable and appropriative. But then, I am neither of those descriptors myself.
:( Well, fuck. For some reason, I incorrectly interpreted it to be the broader umbrella term under which non-normative sexualities fall, and as such I have generally thought of it as the best way to describe myself because I don’t identify as anything else – being bi-ish, but only ever having been with men, and only having been affected by mild homophobia for a short time at any point in my privileged life (I only just remembered that this happened a couple of days ago, which makes it pretty obvious that it rolled right off me). I mean, I’m attracted to people of several genders, so I don’t feel utterly horrible about the times I’ve identified with the label, but I do not feel good about the fact that I’ve explained my incorrect understanding of it to other people. Fucking privilege. Well, now I know.
Esteleth, I’m so sorry you got stuck with such an asshole. Glad you stood up for yourself.
I would like to extend my goodwishes to Nerd and Redhead, since I have been away for ages now.
I have very little hope for my state today. The committee voting on the UT House bill that seems to be a combination of “Don’t Say Gay” and our-useless-opt-in-abstinence-system-of-sex-ed-gives-the-kids-too-much-information, in their great wisdom, has passed it so it heads to the UT House floor. I’m seriously depressed.
Thanks for all the thoughts regarding the “is kink queer?” question; I confess it took me by surprise the first time I heard anyone consider it. I’d always just assumed that hetero≠queer, no matter how non-mainstream things might be in other ways; I just wondered what others thought.
On top of the direct question of how people identify, there’s a logical/linguistic issue, too: How broadly can you expand the scope of any categorical term before it becomes practically meaningless? If queer meant everyone whose sexuality wasn’t strictly limited to what George Carlin called “Good old-fashioned American man-on-top-get-it-over-with-quick” sex, would the word still be at all useful?
Classical Cipher: I dunno, that sounds pretty queer to me. Bi-ish is still not exactly straight, nor is being attracted to multiple genders. And it’s not measured by how much shit you get. (Because I’ve been pretty lucky so far, at that rate, my own membership would lapse!) Bi erasure is a thing, and a lot of it is internalized. Bi (and bi-ish) is not Queer Lite, it’s queer. You’re definitely using the label right for yourself, from that comment.
gocartmozartsays
Ayn Rand’s atheism is rarely discussed in the media and especially among her advocates in the conservative movement and the Christian Right. This blog was set up to help her God fearing fans own up to the true views of their hero. http://aynrandhatedjesus.blogspot.com/
Whose side are you on G.O.P.
Ayn Rand or Jesus Christ?
IT CANNIOT BE BOTH!
They should have to choose.
Brought to you by the “Society for the Promotion of Division Within the Conservative Movememet”
Thank you for your time.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OMsays
That was poorly expressed. I’m sorry. Instead of “I don’t identify as anything else,” I mean “I don’t feel comfortable identifying as straight, because I’m not, but neither do I always feel comfortable identifying as bi, just as a personal matter, due to my history and experiences.” And I decided that since I was definitely kinky, I didn’t really need to worry about what counts for me as “being bi,” and could just identify as queer, thereby marking my non-normativeness without laying claim to identities I don’t feel comfortable saying I have. (And I’m noticing a bunch of different lines of fucked-up in this, so this is going to provoke a lot of self-reflection for me.)
Classical Cipher, from what you’ve said before, I’d say you fall under the Queer umbrella, most likely as bi or pansexual. Of course, you’re the only one who can actually make that call.
A. Rsays
Stopped reading as soon as I say Ayn Rand.
firstapproximationsays
“Want to understand Republicans? First understand evolution.” Mooney’s thesis is that the difference between conservatives and liberals is based on differences in their genes…
This is just a warm, fuzzy conclusion that is independent of science, and based purely on political observation and a desire to appear concilatory.
This is all typical Mooney-ism, where he, like Elaine Ecklund, draws unwarranted conclusions from scientific data. It’s opinion perfumed with the odor of science without that science really supporting it.
Yep, that’s Mooney.
Pteryxxsays
re littlejohn’s poll link at #299:
Should the Catholic church be able to refuse government health care that allows sterilization, abortion-inducing drugs and contraception?
When the Catholic Church gets an unwanted pregnancy or develops endometriosis… THEN I’d agree that it should be able to refuse medical intervention on its own personal body. Until then I’m voting NO.
—
Ms Daisy Cutter @303:
People in the U.S. tend to be conservative, and most people don’t have sex to make a statement — they have sex to get off, and we don’t choose what pushes our buttons.
Well, we also don’t choose to be gay, queer, trans, or whatever race or class we happen to be. We make a statement by existing. A lot more ordinary people would probably be kinky if they could just get past the sex-negativity imposed by culture and religion… and if they aren’t, they still deserve to know it exists.
I might be missing your point though. I mean, most people ARE cis/hetero, and there’s nothing wrong with that, either.
Three more primary wins! I won’t rest until the entire electoral map is covered in Santorum.
Damn! To me, it sounds like Santorum has decided to just self-deprecatingly roll with the joke. This is not good: I’m not looking for even the tiniest reasons to feel better about this asshat!
***
Caine (@302):
Jinx! (Re “loses all meaning,” I mean.)
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Oh, I complained all right. I work for a medical school’s teaching hospital, which means – hooray – I get interns!
Yeah, I complained. Apparently, I wasn’t the first complainee.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
I dunno Caine, Society for the Promotion of Division Within the Conservative Movement gave me a giggle.
Happiestsadistsays
Classical Cipher: Whatever term you feel works best here for you is right, aside from the basic meanings of those terms. I don’t know you, but that description there sounds like “queer” is a perfectly reasonable fit in terms of gender-based attraction.
Label-related self-reflection is both necessary and not very fun. I do the same a lot still wrt gender-labels.
A. Rsays
Update on the santorum issue: Looks like that Tweet was taken down, no longer visible on his page. Still accessible via the Spreading santorum blog.
Richard Austinsays
My interpretation (which I admit is quite possibly wrong) was that “LGB” covered the “sexuality” side and “TQ” covered the “gender” side – e.g., that “queer” referred to “gender-queer”, e.g., not comforming to gender norms but not necessarily trans.
For example, I’m gay, but I don’t consider myself queer (I’m pretty vanilla “guy” in the culturally typical sense with the exception of liking guys and not gals). I have a friend who is biologically male and (to my knowledge) entirely heterosexual but who pretty substantially blurs gender lines.
I think, for some people, kink can cross over into gender or sexual identity. For example, I could see a sub who response to doms regardless of sex as qualifying. But that’s just me thinking, and it’s not “my” term so it’s not mine to define.
Happiestsadistsays
Richard Austin: Genderqueer lives under the trans umbrella, so it’s part of the T. Queer is more of a catchall term for orientation.
My interpretation (which I admit is quite possibly wrong) was that “LGB” covered the “sexuality” side and “TQ” covered the “gender” side – e.g., that “queer” referred to “gender-queer”
Seems to me that if queer referred to gender, there would have no need to coin the term gender-queer.
Reading Richard Austin (@322), I’m beginning to imagine a two-dimensional sexuality space, with the Kinsey scale (or some equivalent) as one (x) axis and some sort of vanilla<—>kink scale as the other (y). Or maybe three-dimensional, with gender identitification as the z axis?
Hmm… d’ya suppose my kink is thinking of every fucking thing as a damn graph? ;^)
waltonsays
Well, fuck. For some reason, I incorrectly interpreted it to be the broader umbrella term under which non-normative sexualities fall, and as such I have generally thought of it as the best way to describe myself because I don’t identify as anything else – being bi-ish, but only ever having been with men,
Well, I’ve generally described myself as bisexual (on the rare occasions that the issue arises), and I’ve never actually had a same-sex relationship; my understanding was that such labels are usually defined according to sexual and romantic attraction, not sexual experience. But perhaps I’m wrong.
Happiestsadistsays
Yeah, what Caine said.
Richard Austinsays
HS and Caine:
Good point. As I said, it’s just what I’ve assumed. I doubt I’ve ever told someone they couldn’t call themselves any of those things for any reason, so I’ve never worried too much about specifics.
“Historically”, if I think more about it, I suppose queer just meant “of atypical sex or gender”, since that seems to be how it got applied: anyone who wasn’t normative was “queer”. In that kind of definition, kinks could qualify.
“Historically”, if I think more about it, I suppose queer just meant “of atypical sex or gender”, since that seems to be how it got applied: anyone who wasn’t normative was “queer”.
Back in the day, queer meant male homosexual, particularly male homosexual on the effeminate side, much like lavender meant the same thing in a previous generation, first applied to male homosexuals, then later to lesbians.
Now, Queer is the umbrella over GLBTI. The meaning it has now is the widest one it has had.
A. Rsays
I like the idea of a three variable scale, very effective.
Happiestsadistsays
Walton, you are correct. Otherwise, every virgin (for whatever definition of the meaningless term) would be lacking an orientation. I was queer when I was a little Happiest, before I was entirely read up on how sex worked.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
My opinion re “queer” is that anyone who is LGBT can call themself queer if that is what they want. I like to describe myself as queer, for example, and I’m a more-or-less vanilla lesbian.
“Genderqueer” is a term that, to my understanding, denotes someone who is some variety of trans*, including the androgynous and those who don’t believe in gender. Intersexed people also sometimes identify as genderqueer.
That said: if a straight person I didn’t know called me “queer,” I would be offended. It has a long history as a pejorative.
I think that would be an idiosyncrasy rather than a kink.
Depends on exactly how excited I get about my graphs, no? <GrinningDuckingRunning>
Richard Austinsays
Caine:
I was going off of memories of footage of men and women marching down streets yelling, “we’re here, we’re queer, get used to it” :)
Hrm, from the Pfft:
The range of what “queer” includes varies. In addition to referring to LGBT-identifying people, it can also encompass: pansexual, pomosexual, intersexual, genderqueer, asexual and autosexual people, and even gender normative heterosexuals whose sexual orientations or activities place them outside the heterosexual-defined mainstream, e.g., BDSM practitioners, or polyamorous persons.
For some queer-identified people, part of the point of the term “queer” is that it simultaneously builds up and tears down boundaries of identity. For instance, among genderqueer people, who do not solidly identify with one particular gender, once solid gender roles have been torn down, it becomes difficult to situate sexual identity. For some people, the non-specificity of the term is liberating. Queerness becomes a way to simultaneously make a political move against heteronormativity while simultaneously refusing to engage in traditional essentialist identity politics.
Yay! We all win!
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
<blockquote.I think, for some people, kink can cross over into gender or sexual identity. For example, I could see a sub who response to doms regardless of sex as qualifying.
I identify as straight, have never had a same-sex sexual encounter, and don’t find women in general sexually attractive. However, there’s not a doubt in my mind that I would be more attracted to a sexually dominant woman than to a vanilla man.
I suspect I am an outlier. I know a few other people like me, but not very many.
There’s been a moderate overlap between the kink community and the queer community for a long time, so I can see the confusion being quite reasonable. For instance, Leather Pride started out as a gay subculture, but has now spread much more widely.
My main contact with kink has been via queer culture – the Sydney Fetish Ball, before it became huge and full of tourists; and some smaller private playparty groups that were queer/pansexual in ethos Not Hellfire, that was always very straight/touristy. I’m not knocking the kink-tourists; in many ways I was one myself. But it’s like traveller tourism. Too many of them at a time, and the thing you actually came to check out is swamped.
cicely (Vitamin Fortified!)says
I thought that the reason paparazzi and such could stay in business was that celebrities, being public persons, are not considered to have the same expectation of privacy in public as private citizens do?
–
Hi, Illuminata! Why the exhaustion? Or is this a “…and boy are my arms tired!” kinda thing?
–
Happiestsadistsays
Esteleth: your comment at #334 made me go for a “like” button.
Genderqueer is the junk drawer of gender, more or less. I say this with all the affection of someone who has had to explain how I am, an agender person, and someone very fluid can all get the same label.
And yeah. Like any reclaimed term, someone not of the group in question addressing someone in it with a reclaimed slur is not going to have the unmitigated goodwill of their target.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Stupid borkquote.
On graphs, Bill, I think it might have to be a four dimensional graph, because in addition to the kinky/vanilla scale there’s the scale of whether people kink specifically to sensation (sadist/masochist) or power differentials, or both.
Pteryxx, #316: What I was saying there is that kink is not inherently radical for reasons for demographics: Most people are straight, an even greater majority is cisgendered, and the U.S. tends to be conservative. These things factor into both desires and activities. Obviously, male doms and female subs are not breaking gender rules, but also, several people mentioned on the TAA thread that many submissive het cis men will “top from the bottom” in ways that are contrary to actual submission.
I don’t disagree that plenty of ordinary people deserve to fulfill whatever kinky desires they may harbor… but fulfillment of those desires is not necessarily radical.
Bill, A.R., and TLC: I’m not finding that quote about the electoral map via Google, and I’m not seeing it on Spreading Santorum’s recent posts. Do any of you have a link, by any chance?
Washington state passed its same-sex marriage bill, now awaiting Gov. Gregoire’s signature. One of the two Republicans who voted “yes” on it, Rep. Maureen Walsh, gave a statement before the vote:
So she went to school and there were a whole group of kids picking on another kid, and you know, my daughter stuck up for that kid. Even though it wasn’t the popular thing to do it was the right thing to do. I was never more proud of my kid than knowing she was speaking against the vocal majority on behalf of the rights of the minority. And to me, it is incumbent upon us as legislators in this state to do that. That is why we are here.
And I shudder to think that if folks who had preceded us in history did not do that, frankly I’m not sure I would be here as a woman. I’m not sure other people would be here due to their race or creed. And to me that is what’s disconcerting.
And someone made the comment that this is not about equality. Well yes it is about equality. And why in the world would be not allow those equal rights for individuals who are truly committed to one another in life to be able to show that in the way of a marriage.
Looks like you and I came up with different “extra” dimensions more or less simultaneously. Even though I started it, I think I’m rapidly approaching the point where this sexual “cosmology” is as opaque to me as cosmological cosmology is!
***
Daze:
My only “source” for the Santorum tweet was it being quoted in this very thread.
So, the good news first: my brother-in-law is a great cook. It’s nice to sit down to dinner with actual folks.
Now, the bad news: I hope you all have noticed that Benji has pulled his usual disappearing act, the same as he always does when called out for his blatantly skeevy, creepy, misogynist behavior.
If his pattern holds true, he will show up again tomorrow or the next day, making innocuous comments about movies or classes or something like that. And people will respond to him as if he’s NOT a sexual predator and a complete asshole, and ask how his classes were, or answer his question about this or that website.
I’d like to ask you all to please stop giving Benji a pass when he’s putting on his polite mask. He’s not a good guy, okay? Maybe someday, with help and therapy, he might be, but at the moment he really isn’t. Please either don’t respond to him, or, if you do respond to him, insist that he explain his sexist, unethical behavior, and don’t let him change the subject. Personally, I wish he’d just leave Pharyngula and go somewhere where other misogynist assholes can appreciate his “I’ll be the guy leering at you in the elevator at 4 a.m.” jokes. He adds nothing and he alienates people. Notice that Jules hasn’t been around a whole lot ever since he sexually harassed her. Seriously, what is it going to take for people to stop giving this misogynist creep a pass for his disgusting behavior?
Richard Austinsays
Ms Daisy:
Yeah, I was being a little silly, sorry. I probably should have added: *throws rainbow confetti in the air*
Seriously, what is it going to take for people to stop giving this misogynist creep a pass for his disgusting behavior?
I’ve kept him in the killfile for ages, but that’s hardly a universal thing.
Happiestsadistsays
SallyStrange: That’s exactly why I wasn’t going to let him off today. He does it constantly, drives off people who are amazing with his shit, and basically just poops on the floor and blames us for telling him to clean it. I’m glad to see more people calling him on it as well, and not just because of the folks who are on my side here (though that is both relieving and refreshing).
If his pattern holds true, he will show up again tomorrow or the next day, making innocuous comments about movies or classes or something like that.
I never really noticed it as such, but you’re right. And consider that he allowed his friend to parse HappiestSadist’s first response to him in this episode of TET as “baiting,” rather than in context with the previous episode.
I agree with your suggestions, too. (WTF, he drove Jules away?! And did the harassment extend to outside of Pharyngula, too?)
A.R.: That’s got to be faked. Look at his facial expression. His official Twitter wouldn’t use that pic.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Ben’s in my killfile exactly because I don’t give passes on that garbage. I would love to see him being cut not an ounce of slack.
More people who can fuck off: Sawyer Williamson. Also, this person, whose ugly remark was commented upon here. “Seventeen, ridiculously Catholic, catholic, Pro-Life, and Saint in the making.” Urrrrgggghhhhhh. I really, really hope she grows out of it.
A. Rsays
Ms Daisy: yeah, I was beginning to think that. But you never know.
Pteryxxsays
re Ben: frankly, I’m so bad with names, this is the first iteration where I recognized him from a previous round of assholery. I know *I* get sick at the sight of him now, and that’ll color my responses if any, but a lot of random TETizens probably won’t realize who it is even if they did witness one of his previous meltdowns.
For what it’s worth, I’ve now saved thread references to three separate occasions where Ben Geiger’s been an asshole. (Yes, I saved the first two and STILL forgot who it was.)
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Hear, hear, Sally.
___
I love ice cream. The best ice cream I ever had was as an undergrad. The chemistry department would have regular liquid nitrogen ice cream parties, with contests for best flavor. Here is the recipe for the best fucking ice cream I ever had: Country Breakfast Ice Cream
1 gallon whole milk
6 strips fried bacon, chopped
4 tablespoons maple syrup
1/4 cup sugar
1 liter liquid nitrogen
large bowl
wooden spoon
2 pairs thermal gloves
2 pairs safety goggles
2 people
Mix milk, bacon, syrup and sugar in bowl. Stir well. Don gloves and glasses. While one person stirs quickly, the other person pours the nitrogen into the bowl slowly. Whip until semisolid. Enjoy!
__
In random news, my Hippy Uncle™ just messaged me on FB to tell me that some friends of his have opened a “metaphysical store” in the city that I live in. o_O
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
So, the good news first: my brother-in-law is a great cook. It’s nice to sit down to dinner with actual folks.
Now, the bad news: I hope you all have noticed that Benji has pulled his usual disappearing act, the same as he always does when called out for his blatantly skeevy, creepy, misogynist behavior.
If his pattern holds true, he will show up again tomorrow or the next day, making innocuous comments about movies or classes or something like that. And people will respond to him as if he’s NOT a sexual predator and a complete asshole, and ask how his classes were, or answer his question about this or that website.
I’d like to ask you all to please stop giving Benji a pass when he’s putting on his polite mask. He’s not a good guy, okay? Maybe someday, with help and therapy, he might be, but at the moment he really isn’t. Please either don’t respond to him, or, if you do respond to him, insist that he explain his sexist, unethical behavior, and don’t let him change the subject. Personally, I wish he’d just leave Pharyngula and go somewhere where other misogynist assholes can appreciate his “I’ll be the guy leering at you in the elevator at 4 a.m.” jokes. He adds nothing and he alienates people. Notice that Jules hasn’t been around a whole lot ever since he sexually harassed her. Seriously, what is it going to take for people to stop giving this misogynist creep a pass for his disgusting behavior?
*bares teeth* I’ll do what I can, Sallystrange.
That hoggling comment was the last straw for me. Benjamin Geiger can fuck right off.
No worries, Sally. He’s been killfiled. I don’t think I could muster the energy to roast him on his outlandish behavior without smashing my monitor, lately his comments have been making me see red. Before I just thought he was annoying.
———————————————
I didn’t think it was possible to be both disappointed and very horny at the same time. J’s son T is sick again, so no meeting up tonight. Like I said, I was disappointed, but eh, I was a virgin for most of my past years, no big deal on waiting.
Or so I thought. The last time my head buzzed with so much sexual energy and X-rated daydreams was a few months ago. *sigh* Yoga before bed, it seems. Aside from writing or reading, that always seems to bring me back down to earth when my mind’s taken the scenic & sexy route. By then I should also be tired enough to go to sleep without much trouble.
(WTF, he drove Jules away?! And did the harassment extend to outside of Pharyngula, too?)
He put an unwanted move on her at a meet-up last year. Jules was quite nice about it and communicated with Benjamin privately about the whole thing and wouldn’t have said a word about it publicly. Benjamin brought it up in TET during a rampant whine about wimmins and how nasty they are to him.
firstapproximationsays
Ooh, I totally forgot the monogamy nonmonogamy axis! Four-dimensional space? Sexuality string theory, anyone?
Maybe we need a Sexuality Hibert Space. However, describing one’s sexuality may be difficult when there are an infinite number of degrees of freedom.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
That sucks. I saw Jules telling him off for it, I saw him whining and pulling the hinted suicide threats, but I had no idea he’d actually driven her away.
As if I needed another reason to dislike the pile of shit.
He has also been a disgusting sexist shit on the TET FB group, and has now been banned from there. Which, of course, he whines about as persecution and all Jules’ fault, when it was actually not her decision, but the group mods. A moderation decision which most of us (90%+) concurred with. And as Jules can attest, he is a sleazy harasser IRL. (Which is why it’s apparently her fault. For not fucking him or something.)
I do wish Jules felt more able to stand up against it. I’d rather have her here than him, that’s for sure.
janinesays
I wish Jules would come back. I hope she realizes that the support she has here should outweigh the shit the Ben has dumped.
Benjamin brought it up in TET during a rampant whine about wimmins and how nasty they are to him.
How dare she not fuck him!
TLC:
I saw Jules telling him off for it, I saw him whining and pulling the hinted suicide threats, but I had no idea he’d actually driven her away.
So he threatened suicide to gain sympathy because people were angry with him for driving Jules away? Did he also contact her and threaten to kill himself, too, because she’d rejected him?
Jesus. He’s always pinged my creep-o-meter, but like any other creep, the more I hear about him, the worse it gets. And he’s a professor or at least an instructor. I feel bad for any female students of his, particularly if he decides they’re attractive.
Can people who are still in touch with Jules encourage her to return, if she feels safe to?
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
I don’t know Jules one bit, but I think I would most certainly compare her company to Ben’s.
*prefer. GODDAMN BRAINFARTS. PREFER.
A. Rsays
Hmmm, just got a new computer due to a freak LN2 accident with the other one. I’ll have to get my killfile up and running again for this asshat.
aladegorrionsays
Hi. Long time (if anybody remembers me). Life has been busy so I’m thread bankrupt, but I just wanted to say that I love you all. Seeing you all stand up against Geiger makes me feel better and more confident about some recent stands I have taken in my life (thanks in no small part to seeing you all fight the good fight here).
Reading you all makes me realize there are good people out there and I am so happy you exist. All those arguments you regulars make for the benefit of people reading? They help. I appreciate it so much even though I never have time to contribute.
Thanks for what you do here. I will probably disappear back into lurker/absence as I am crazy-busy, but I’ll be back whenever I can because this is such an awesome place. Hugs to all who want them/need them.
Happiestsadistsays
Huh, Ben’s sounding more and more like my rapist ex.
So he threatened suicide to gain sympathy because people were angry with him for driving Jules away?
Eh, the suicide routine was going on before the incident with Jules. Benjamin is manipulative and has some real issues when it comes to relationships and sex.
One thing for sure is that he hates other people talking about their romantic or sex lives, thinks that sort of talk shouldn’t go on when he’s not gettin’ any.
Pteryxxsays
That sucks. I saw Jules telling him off for it, I saw him whining and pulling the hinted suicide threats, but I had no idea he’d actually driven her away.
…
This is just me here, nothing much to do with Ben… but I didn’t realize that y’all social-type people actually noticed and missed each other when someone up and disappears.
I shouldn’t be putting words in Jules’ mouth; as far as I know, she hasn’t explicitly said that Benjamin’s presence here inhibits hers. But I have noticed that although she posts quite a bit on TET, and not so much at Pharyngula. And, like y’all, I’d much rather have her around than Benjamin.
Pteryxxsays
Hmmm, just got a new computer due to a freak LN2 accident with the other one.
A.R, if you actually attempted to make computer-flavored ice cream, you are my hero.
If you SUCCEEDED, you’re my god.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Pteryxx: I kinda believe in a person’s right to up and disappear sometimes. I do it occasionally too.
I still consider myself relatively new here, I don’t really ‘know’ everyone, though I’m starting to know a few people.
I know Benjamin Geiger though. I remember the incident with Jules sparking off a pretty long fucking Benjamin Geiger pity-party.
I know everyone’s killfiling him, but doesn’t he just change his nick slightly anyways? I think I may try an alternate route.
Yes! In SPITE of repeated requests from Caine and me for him to stop doing that, so that the killfile will continue working. I really don’t want him around at all, ever. He’s a manipulative sexist asshole.
I know everyone’s killfiling him, but doesn’t he just change his nick slightly anyways? I think I may try an alternate route.
What alternate route do you have in mind?
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
SallyStrange and Caine: Yeah, I’m just sayin… like I told him, I used to play this trick on IRC… used to be a favorite trick of mine. A simple way of frustrating people’s efforts to make me disappear.
I uhh, used to be a bit of a troll. Not here though.
Anyways, I don’t feel like figuring out this killfile thing anyways. I’d rather he just fucked right off at this point. All my mercy for him is gone.
Don’t we want Pharyngula to feel like a safe space? What about new people who aren’t aware of this stupid asshole’s history? Should they be forced to learn what we all already know?
carliesays
I’ve been one of the ones being talked to directly here. I’ve always tried to see the good side of Ben, and always tried to be patient and explain things calmly to him etc. I remember reading something about the stuff with Jules, but I didn’t realize at all that it affected her any more than just being an annoyance (but I should have, I really really should have). Now that I’m thinking about it, the passes I’ve been giving him for just not quite understanding have been going on for a really, really long time now, longer than one would expect. Even if he is still in a bad place mentally, and is having a lot of trouble seeing how things are outside his bubble of viewpoint, by now I think he would realize that yes, his views are on a kilter and he should tread lightly around subjects that he knows he always somehow ends up on the wrong side of.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Starstuff: Just telling him to fuck off. I think he should be made aware that we, indeed, want him to fuck off. That this isn’t just some fuckup that’ll be forgiven and forgotten, but part of an ongoing pattern.
They’re doing just great, thanks for asking. :) The rats are growing and happy little campers, the monster dogs have been a bit disappointed by the lack of snow this winter, but I’m okay with it. Heh.
Pteryxxsays
IMHO, intentionally morphing to avoid killfile should count similarly to sockpuppeting: i.e. a bannable offense.
janinesays
I know everyone’s killfiling him, but doesn’t he just change his nick slightly anyways? I think I may try an alternate route.
Just want to point out, I used to change my moniker regularly. An yesterday SallyStrange changes her in order to incorporate an insult from a rather loathsome fool.
By doing so, however, you play directly into what he wants, which is attention and responses. As I said, he’s manipulative. One of the reasons he started up whining about how we like you but don’t like him was that he knew it would garner responses.
Do what you like, I’m in no position to make people do anything, however, I’d much prefer it if he was completely ignored. *shrug*
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Janine: Yeah, but as far as I know (and if anyone does know don’t tell me), no one has me killfiled.
I really don’t think he’s changing his nick for the same reasons.
Just telling him to fuck off. I think he should be made aware that we, indeed, want him to fuck off. That this isn’t just some fuckup that’ll be forgiven and forgotten, but part of an ongoing pattern.
Well, I think I can agree with that. I’ve tried to give him the benefit of the doubt every time something like this happens with him. But, I’ve run out of patience for him and his shit.
Anyway…
Has anyone here participated in a SlutWalk before? I’m participating in one here this Saturday.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Caine: Well it seemed to make him disappear for today. Though you may have a point. I will, of course, see what happens.
Janine, I’ve changed mine too. That’s not why Benjamin does it or does it so often. He didn’t start doing that until people started outright announcing they were killfiling him.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Also this:
IMHO, intentionally morphing to avoid killfile should count similarly to sockpuppeting: i.e. a bannable offense.
Truth.
carliesays
tl;dr me: the benefit of the doubt has finally worn off.
That’s just a standard part of his routine. Shows up, acts okay for a bit, then posts something misogynistic or otherwise offensive, stirs up a load of shit, gets a whole lot of people talking to and about him, then leaves. Lather, rinse, repeat.
janinesays
Janine: Yeah, but as far as I know (and if anyone does know don’t tell me), no one has me killfiled.
You never know. When I had a working killfile script, while I did make some announcement that I just killfiled so-an-so, most of the time, I do not say a word.
I just wanted to say that people should be able to play with their moniker as long as the main name is recognizable, even those people who has generated a lot of ill will.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Caine: I see what you mean. This is good information.
Rey Foxsays
Actually, the main reason Jules doesn’t come here much is that she doesn’t have the internet out at her place, and I think most of us know how hard it is to do anything with FTB TET on a smartphone. Can’t imagine Ben’s latest shenanigans would make her feel very welcome though.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OMsays
On the other hand, I have a certain amount of frustration with the everybody-ignore-him option, which is the same one I have with not feeding the trolls. He posts his usual misogynistic shit, killfile means we don’t see it, it appears to go unchallenged. I’d try to engage with him directly, but at this point, it’s very clear that he is going to make his usual response, which is declaring that we’re all assholes, we all can’t read, andor we all are lying about the shit he regularly pulls. Possibly he’ll also explain that it’s just a handful of us who dislike him, while utterly failing to be self-reflective enough to consider the possibility that maybe it’s not random personal dislike/personality clashes, but widespread anger at shitty behavior.
On the other hand, I have a certain amount of frustration with the everybody-ignore-him option, which is the same one I have with not feeding the trolls.
I understand that, but how many times have we been through the same shit over and over with Benjamin now? What bothers me is that he gets what he wants, every fucking time and he manages to manipulate enough people to get his attention fix.
He hasn’t done anything to merit banning, so we either keep on going around in circles or ignore his ass.
Pteryxxsays
CC @401: Some of us don’t killfile, though. I’m not always around, but I don’t. Those few of us will still see the BS and some will respond; but the responding population will be disproportionately naive responders.
—
meta: I know nested replies suck, but we don’t really have a single format for replying to whatever conversation we’re in amongst TET. There’s name/post number typed by hand because post numbers don’t copy, or link to comment, which gives Pharyngula comment number instead of easily look-uppable post number (and chokes those of us on dial-up). People can search for their nyms when looking for replies, or search for topic mentions when there’s a generally agreed-upon topic word.
Is there an FTB way to have a reply option that ISN’T nested? Something that puts “Replying to [commenter] at [post number]” at the start of one’s comment, while still keeping the linear format?
Something like that might also be handy for killfiling – it’d killfile the quotes from, and replies to, the asshole that some of us don’t want to see.
Rey Foxsays
So how about a hearty hello to Illuminata!
A. Rsays
Pteryxx: Never thought to taste the product!Though I suppose it would be a bit metallic. :^)
Happiestsadistsays
Hello to Illuminata! Long time, no see!
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OMsays
I understand that, but how many times have we been through the same shit over and over with Benjamin now? What bothers me is that he gets what he wants, every fucking time and he manages to manipulate enough people to get his attention fix.
You’re right. At this point it’s some brick wall shit, and it’s really a waste of time and energy if we’re trying to persuade him, and if we’re not it’s just endless and tedious and gah.
And *hugs* to pteryxx.
An yesterday SallyStrange changes her in order to incorporate an insult from a rather loathsome fool.
Yes, but if someone specifically asked me to stop changing my moniker because they didn’t want to read what I was writing, I would stop. Because that’s what decent human beings do.
I’ve been ignoring Ben. Unfortunately, although I have killfile installed on my new laptop, it doesn’t seem to actually work. I click “kill” and nothing happens. Either way, ignoring him doesn’t seem to work because we lack the critical mass of people who are aware of Benjamin’s horribleness to make it an effective tactic. So, I am going to take Coyote’s approach–direct confrontation whenever he shows up–and treat it as an experiment. We’ll see what happens. At least this will be something different.
Pteryxxsays
…also, I’d loooove to have a blockquote-reply option. I’ve typed <blockquote> so many times that my hands think it’s my login.
Shows up, acts okay for a bit, then posts something misogynistic or otherwise offensive, stirs up a load of shit, gets a whole lot of people talking to and about him, then leaves. Lather, rinse, repeat.
It’s the cycle of abuse, only played out in an online, group setting.
Pteryxxsays
CC @407:
And *hugs* to pteryxx.
*blink* Thanks, CC.
(what on earth?)
Pteryxxsays
Caine, thanks, but I just updated Firefox and that formatting toolbar doesn’t work with 10.0. Maybe later?
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OMsays
It was one of those “I LIKE YOU!” hugs, cos I wanted to acknowledge that you said something but I couldn’t think of anything to say except like “Well, okay :)”
Tethyssays
My kill doesn’t do anything either, but the hide comment one does work. I just ignore Ben and scroll past his comments. He seems to enjoy annoying people, and I am glad to see that others have the same reaction to him. Namely that they find him obnoxious and manipulative.
—
Sally
because they didn’t want to read what I was writing
No pressure, but how is your blog coming along? I want to read more of your writing.
—
Pteryxx
I miss the tags on SB where I could just copy paste the entire tag. It took so long for me to figure out how to make the current tag choices work.
I’m glad your critters are doing well, Caine! I think if my doggy was used to snow she would be disappointed too. As it is, if she was thinking about it, I suspect she likes the lack of precipitation here because I don’t have to dry all her feet off. :)
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
On Ben Geiger:
Ugh. I’m on alert now. Too many free passes indeed.
On random shit:
I can’t get The Bangles’ version of “Hazy Shade of Winter” out of my head. I go through one chorus, then it repeats with the harmony line a third above, and then it repeats with a bass harmony vocal line. Oh, lord. Somebody please give me another ear worm.
The blog is coming along slowly. Moving and stuff. You know. Also there’s this adorable baby who keeps distracting me…
Pteryxxsays
Caine: The reviewers all say “too bad it no longer works” “sad that nobody is maintaining it”. I tried to install it and Firefox said it was incompatible…
Sally & Tethys, when you right click on greasemonkey, is FtB killfile have a checkmark? Also, I had to uncheck ‘killfile’ before my FtB killfile would work.
Caine: The reviewers all say “too bad it no longer works” “sad that nobody is maintaining it”. I tried to install it and Firefox said it was incompatible…
Well, shit. I know there’s another text format add on, Ichthyic uses it, it uses a right click menu rather than a toolbar. I can’t remember the effing name of it…I’ll dig around a bit, see if I can find it.
As it is, if she was thinking about it, I suspect she likes the lack of precipitation here because I don’t have to dry all her feet off. :)
Yes, the monster dogs don’t much care for the feet cleaning treatment when it’s mud season around here. :D
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
So, I am going to take Coyote’s approach–direct confrontation whenever he shows up–and treat it as an experiment. We’ll see what happens. At least this will be something different.
Yes. Break the cycle. I didn’t want to announce it, but that’s what I was thinking.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Sally:
Also there’s this adorable baby who keeps distracting me…
It had better not distract you from my upcoming party. Or it will end up roasted and served as the main course. I will put the lotion on its skin because I am too tired to give it the hose again.
janinesays
Fake Hubby, sing Private Dancer as loudly as you can.
No Josh, I’m pretty sure I can make it to the party, as long as Audley isn’t leaving Friday… I should email her about that. But yeah. It’s a busy weekend in my new household but I think we can make it work.
Rey Foxsays
Somebody please give me another ear worm.
I don’t think you want me to do that.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Fake Wife: LOL! Obviously I haven’t told you about Teh Awesomez Tina Turner Impression I do. It won’t help, believe me. I’ll just start going, “You know. Every now and then. I think you might like to hear. Something from us. Nice. And easy.”
Sally: Audley and Mr. Darkheart are coming on Saturday.
I’m not sure the species that thrive in my head would be able to take root in yours.
I’ve spent two days with “One Tin Soldier” going ’round and ’round. It’s by some outfit called Coven, who then vanished, and it was the theme song from the 1971 (I think) movie Billy Jack. I only made it 35 minutes into the movie, but the song remains.
Having spent some years in music school, and thus having special training, I am exceptionally prone to really, really persistent earworms. They last days. I fall asleep with them, wake up, and they are still there.
Wait…wait…what’s that I hear? “Hazy Shade Of Winter?” Ah, but it’s the Simon & Garfunkel version.
Thanks. That’s a distinct improvement.
janinesays
I kind of guessed that you would have a thing for Tina Turner.
There is a gay bar in the west suburbs of Chicago called Nut Bush City Limits. Thought you would like to know that.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
I’ve spent two days with “One Tin Soldier” going ’round and ’round. It’s by some outfit called Coven, who then vanished, and it was the theme song from the 1971 (I think) movie Billy Jack. I only made it 35 minutes into the movie, but the song remains.
I loved that song, and the footage of the wild horses that went with it in that movie. That shit was awesome. It just went together. The last time I saw music and footage of animals go together like that, it was a pairing of lion/hyena footage and “I want it all” by Queen, on Youtube. I’m still pissed it’s gone now.
Tethyssays
Arggh. I have attempted to post the link to the killfile on the wiki twice and it keeps getting sucked into an internet black hole.
Josh
Walk Like an Egyptian?
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Thanks. That’s a distinct improvement.
Well, it’s a matter of taste, but I prefer The Bangles’ faster, more pop-y version. I’m a sucker for slick pop, though, and for harmony. I recall an interview with them from I can’t remember when where one of them (Susanna Hoffs maybe?) described their approach to vocals as a “harmonic layer cake” with a focus on getting as many vocal lines in as possible. Yeah, it can be sickeningly sweet, but when thick harmony is done well it sounds to my ear the way pecan pie tastes to my mouth. . .overwhelming and almost too much, but so, so good.
Obviously this is not helping me get rid of the wretched ear worm. I have had enough auditory pecan pie, thank you.
waltonsays
I’ve spent two days with “One Tin Soldier” going ’round and ’round. It’s by some outfit called Coven, who then vanished, and it was the theme song from the 1971 (I think) movie Billy Jack. I only made it 35 minutes into the movie, but the song remains.
Never seen the movie, but I like the song. (I can even play it on the piano! Which isn’t especially impressive, admittedly, given that the chord pattern of the verse (though not the chorus) is identical to that of Pachelbel’s Canon.)
I am exceptionally prone to really, really persistent earworms.
I’ve had one recently (Circle of Light by Walela) that has now lasted 3 weeks and shows no sign of stopping.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Janine!–
There is a gay bar in the west suburbs of Chicago called Nut Bush City Limits. Thought you would like to know that.
Oh lord, I’m dying here. Fade to Golden Girls flashback, narrated by Sophia Petrillo. . .
Picture it-New Orleans, 1992. A young SpokesGay took his first trip to the Big Easy with his friends. After wandering about the streets drunk and burping up Muffaletta sandwich, they stumbled into a gay bar—the Heartbreak Cafe.
Some faggot puts “Nutbush” on the jukebox. Tina wails it out, and the bartender substitutes his own lyrics:
Re: hazy shade of winter
I only vaguely remember the Bangles’ version, so that worm, if it took up residence, would be quickly eaten by Simon & Garfunkel.
Yeah, Billy Jack starts out with a nice, idealistic theme song and some footage of wild horses. Then it turns into a student film with bad acting, fake blood that looks like orange marmalade, and, worst of all, 15 minutes or more of amateurish folk singing. That stuff really hurt my overtrained ears, and I swear it took up half of that 35 minutes.
As a very young buck, I was fascinated by chemistry and pyrotechnics. A common enough tale I guess, but I of course had to get all competitive about it and experiment with newer and more dangerous combinations than the ubiquitous brake fluid.
I managed to get my hands on some model aircraft fuel. The big attraction was that it was competition fuel, so that in addition to methanol (and castor oil) it also contained nitro-methane.
For some reason it did not explode spontaneously so I added a (too short) fuse and tried to light it. As I bent over it, it exploded into my face.
I ran around smoking and leaped into the pool to douse the searing pain. I was seriously burned and covered in blisters and went into shock, shaking so hard that I had to be held down. I was fortunate that I (mainly) only had second degree burns. The blisters on my eyelids attested further to my good luck.
Over the coming weeks and months I slowly transformed back from looking like a monster as my hair and skin recovered.
(There is another whole dreadful chapter to this story, that occurred to me in my late twenties, but I must first steel myself to go into those details.)
……………………end of fire story …………………………
in spite of his brilliance and achievements, Euripides spent a long and hard life fighting in the Greek army
Sorry, I did not notice this earlier and it was certainly not what I meant. Rather, that in spite of the rigors, hardships and dangers that he had to face each day as a soldier, he could still find the time to write and produce plays and poems at such an exceptional level.
Tethyssays
Caine
I have no idea where to look to see if there is/is not a check in the greasemonkey script.
I apparently can’t even post a link to the killfile on the wiki.
—
I like one tin soldier, it’s now playing in my head.
*Listen children to my story, that was written long ago. ‘Bout the people of the mountain and the valley folk below. On the mountain…*
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
The Outlaw Billy Jack, as far as movies go, was a weird one. I liked it, despite its flaws. I mean come on, the guy does kick some ass.
That said, it does have some flaws. Some of the ‘sad’ parts are kinda badly acted, and while they should definitely have some impact, the overwrought acting and musical score kind of diminish the impact a bit.
But that part where he kicks that fat grinning bastard in the face, and there’s nothing he can do about it… you have to love that part.
(Contrary to popular belief, the song is not, in fact, about marijuana. As Peter Yarrow has been painstakingly explaining to people for the last few decades, it’s an innocent children’s song.)
janinesays
TLC, while this is not a movie, it is a music video; the animals do play a part of the lyrics.
Yeah, Billy Jack starts out with a nice, idealistic theme song and some footage of wild horses. Then it turns into a student film with bad acting, fake blood that looks like orange marmalade, and, worst of all, 15 minutes or more of amateurish folk singing. That stuff really hurt my overtrained ears, and I swear it took up half of that 35 minutes.
Hahahahahahahahahaha, you said it so much better than I did.
But the parts that work for me, work for me.
janinesays
When I was in the fifth grade, One Tin Soldier was one of the songs my music teacher ha us sing.
waltonsays
I thought One Tin Soldier was originally recorded by an obscure Canadian group called The Original Caste. (Although the version in the movie was definitely by Coven.)
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Another classic earworm: Puff the Magic Dragon
Oh, no. As I’ve explained to you before (not that I expect you to remember it, just sayin’) that song makes me fairly ache with nostalgia and tear up. Mostly because it’s just Pachelbel’s Canon in D sung in another key. Seriously. . .listen to the chord changes. It’s the same song.
janinesays
Just want everyone to know, Killdozer did the definitive version of One Tin Soldier.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Walton: Sorry, it wasn’t intended originally to be about Marijuana, but it’s far too ingrained in stoner culture now.
It’s like, a part of our mythology, dude. Like the various legends around ‘420’. And insisting that Jesus was a stoner.
True or not, the association is there for good.
waltonsays
As I’ve explained to you before (not that I expect you to remember it, just sayin’) that song makes me fairly ache with nostalgia and tear up.
Of course I remember! That was about two years ago, early 2010, when I was ill with tonsillitis and panicking about my Oxford finals. Hang on, I’ll see if I can activate my google-fu and find the link.
But that part where he kicks that fat grinning bastard in the face, and there’s nothing he can do about it… you have to love that part.
Oh, agreed. That was humorous. Also, the martial arts scenes were better than David Carradine’s slow motion crap, or some of the newer stuff that looks like dancing, only with more grunting.
But the off-key folk singing, the school where the kids seem to do whatever they want, and it’s groovy…I mean, I get enough of that living in Eugene, Oregon. That’s one problem with living here–all that idealism and high-minded stuff gets annoying after awhile.
There’s often woo attached, too. Still, I love this place. I’m pretty sure.
janinesays
Sweety, I was mocking monarchism before you were born.
I have no idea where to look to see if there is/is not a check in the greasemonkey script.
Greasemonkey is required to make the killfile work – there should be a little monkey face on your status bar (lower right), that if you right click, shows what scripts you have, and whether or not you have a checkmark by them.
I apparently can’t even post a link to the killfile on the wiki.
I don’t understand, there already is one: [redacted, apparently a link to the Pharyngula wiki won’t allow a fucking post through.]
Go to the Pharyngula wiki and search ‘greasemonkey’
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
feralboy12:
But the off-key folk singing, the school where the kids seem to do whatever they want, and it’s groovy…
lol, yeah.
I hope I don’t catch any flak for this, but I thought the rape scene was way bad. Not so much the scene itself, but just the way it was dealt with after. No horrible message or anything that I can remember, just the badness of the acting and stuff really kills the impact. Same with the whole part with the miscarriage.
I hope I don’t catch any flak for this, but I thought the rape scene was way bad. Not so much the scene itself, but just the way it was dealt with after. No horrible message or anything that I can remember, just the badness of the acting and stuff really kills the impact.
I don’t know if this will help any, but when rape scenes are realistically portrayed (as in the two rape scenes in Män som hatar kvinnor), they are *extremely* difficult for me to get through.
Badly done scenes are still difficult, but less triggering for me. Of course, we are talking Billy Jack, which was all around bad and rather silly all the way ’round.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
I hope I don’t catch any flak for this,
Sorry, I just remembered some other asshole who used this phrase on another blog some of you may remember. Apologies.
I’d like to know what others thought though.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Caine: I was thinking more along the lines of ‘implying it in a clever way’ rather than ‘making it more graphic and realistic to ‘up the impact”. But I think I see what you mean.
I didn’t make it to the rape scene in Billy Jack, or the miscarriage. Probably just as well.
I’ve been watching various 60’s and 70’s movies lately, stuff that was sort of a big deal at the time (big enough to warrant a Mad satire) but that seems to have mostly been forgotten. Stuff like Joe (1970, Peter Boyle, Susan Sarandon) and Billy Jack, and something (I forget the name) with Audrey Hepburn, Midnight Cowboy, and soon, Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice.
I’m finding the pace of everything from that era to be painfully slow.
Tethyssays
I love harmony, and have recently discovered the Civil Wars. Their voices work so well together.
(Fun fact: The genre tag for this album, which downloaded automatically from somewhere when I ripped this CD, is “Gay”.)
Richard Austinsays
For all who are afflicted:
This is supposed to be the ultimate anti-earworm. Not sure why, but it’s worked for most people I’ve given told to try it.
waltonsays
Well, if it amuses you Walton, go ahead:) I was only bringing it up as a “hey, that’s mildly interesting” thing, not as an obligation. :))
Oh, I like re-reading old threads. I’m weird in that respect. And I have a particularly good memory for posts.
(And now I really need to go to sleep. Because I’m exhausted, and I don’t know why I stayed up late again despite having been exhausted for the last five hours or so and having done nothing productive. Impulse control. I lack it.
And I just wish I could articulate what it is that I’m so stressed and anxious about. But anyway.)
I was thinking more along the lines of ‘implying it in a clever way’ rather than ‘making it more graphic and realistic to ‘up the impact”. But I think I see what you mean.
I see. I think it’s difficult to cleverly imply a rape and do it well. Rape has been very badly handled in a metric fucktonne of movies.
As difficult as rape scenes are for me to watch, I think if there’s going to be one, it’s best to do it as realistically as possible, as I’ve seen people be utterly shocked by such scenes, to the point that they change their thinking and even examine their own privilege. Think of a movie like The Accused.
I had a difficult time with the rape scene in Watchmen, too, but I think it’s better not to candy coat such scenes.
Pteryxxsays
This is supposed to be the ultimate anti-earworm. Not sure why, but it’s worked for most people I’ve given told to try it.
…Damn you, Richard Austin. Just from looking at the TITLE of that song, it leaped into and displaced my currently running earworm, which ws something by Evanescence… and I was trying to find out what the Evanescence song WAS! *grumble kvetch*
Earworms? You don’t want an earworm… it only takes one word. Or perhaps even only one letter… N
Pteryxxsays
walton:
(And now I really need to go to sleep. Because I’m exhausted, and I don’t know why I stayed up late again despite having been exhausted for the last five hours or so and having done nothing productive. Impulse control. I lack it.
And I just wish I could articulate what it is that I’m so stressed and anxious about. But anyway.)
I bet you’re hanging around TET because stimulating social contact with familiar, trusted companions helps reduce your stress. I sure find myself nosing about on FTB suspiciously often when something subjectively terrible is hanging over me.
Meanwhile, I’m going a bit nuts trying to get my calibre libary onto my ipad now that Stanza is dead :( It doesn’t help that instead of uploading just a few books I want to copy it all so it acts as a backup. And that I decided to move my entire library to a new sensible spot and copy everything in from multiple sources so I could dedup and save some space, and well, umm, it’s quite large. And I wanted to be done in time to go to a music festival and we’re supposed to be leaving in half an hour or so. *grumble grumble bloody computers spawn of yahweh*
Pteryxxsays
Richard Austin: nope, that ain’t it. It was probably new enough to be on radio just a few days ago, quicker paced, short choppy repeats and then a sweeping strong part with several chord changes…
…Have you people got ANY idea how frustrating it is to try and locate a song without having heard any lyrics? Now that the earworm’s gone, all I have left is a visual/kinesthetic diagram!
….And proceeded to burn a mis-spelled four letter word (FUKC) on main street in our small town.
Hehe. On hot dry nights we would go and each do a “ringpis” (peeing in a circle) on the roads of our neighbourhood. The ultimate was to draw a whole “Anarchy” logo (an A within a circle) on a single bladder. These things would last for weeks.
…
(Again, sorry for misrepresenting Murray wrt the army.)
My guess: sloerie could come from the diminutive of “hoer” (“whore”) eg: hoer-ie —> sloerie.
As an aside (sorry no youtube – I’m in China today), look for videos online, in which sound is run, via speakers, through a slurry (often thick custard). It really is amazing. Life Jim, but not as we know it.
@ Kitty 149
tried to woo my girlfriend back with bad music
I wooed my (future) girlfriend with guitar outside her bedroom window late at night. Of course the music was bad as I cannot play to save my life. She thought it was really romantic though. *sigh* I haz a sentimental.
… {back to catching the dragon TET}
Richard Austinsays
Pteryxx:
Yeah, sorry, don’t listen to the radio except when I work out, and that’s permanently fixed on KOST 103.5 Easy Listening (it’s the gym’s radio, I can’t change it).
BTW – check your mail.
Pteryxxsays
re TAA: Holy moley, y’all are *still going* over there? I’m humbled and awed. (And a bit jealous…)
janinesays
It was dormant for a while but a couple of spleen weasels just revived it.
Holy moley, y’all are *still going* over there? I’m humbled and awed. (And a bit jealous…)
A couple of dull, broken crayons showed up, one with the charming nym of bitchpeas.
The first one addressed someone by the name of meyers and linked a video of PZ being an evil lech, which was supposed to condone TAA’s behaviour.
The charming bitchpeas presented the classic “I’m a woman and I hate feminists, too!” along with “I’m sure I’ll be chewed out by the OP because she’s a feminist and that’s what they do.”
Pteryxxsays
The charming bitchpeas presented the classic “I’m a woman and I hate feminists, too!” along with “I’m sure I’ll be chewed out by the OP because she’s a feminist and that’s what they do.”
Get Out Of Misogyny Free Card!*
*terms and conditions apply. Not available in all areas. Not intended for actual protection from misogyny.
janinesays
I am already bored with bitchpeas, she might as well be a turing machine.
Here’s one more for the earworm collection. Probably my favorite commercial ever, and in keeping with the retro early 70’s kick I’ve been on.
Sigh…I just love it when random people show up in a thread with 900 comments, where we already spent a whole freaking day disassembling idiots, and demand that we come back and answer the same shit again. And can’t be bothered to read any previous comments, or spell the OP’s name correctly.
I knew as soon as I saw the name “bitchpeas” in the recent comments list. You probably don’t pick a name like that at random.
I hope nobody is put off by my ‘nym. The “feralboy” was borrowed from The Tick, years ago, and stupid gmail made me put a number on the end. And it sort of reminded me of the “Daffodil-17” names from Vonnegut, so I kept it. Really, a frozen accident.
Anyway, bitchpeas…feh.
Reboot hda one episode where the computer made one character the smartest…by nerfing the intelligence of everyone else. the ‘allies’ were too dumb and kept ‘helping’ (while gleefully declaring that they are indeed helping) while sabotaging any efforts.
Now even if the asshole wanted to move on or apologize he can’t because his fans are too busy ‘helping him’ by showing how huge a fucking asshole everyone like him is and how dumb you have to be to go for this.
Ditto for Australia.
I don’t think people here realise how much the church interferes and dictates through some very powerfully connected and placed minions (let’s start with the leader of the opposition).
Could someone please (and it’s an honest question) why the loony christo-fascists in the US are getting away with so much face time and the decent, honest folk are sitting back letting this happen without rebuttal – and I mean in the national media sense, not the blogosphere!!
Or have I missed something?
..whoops, yes, ‘missed something’
please….’tell me’ why the loony christo-fascists etc…….
Another thing…
walton
I appreciate that you care deeply about racism, imigration and islamophobia. You know I mostly agree with you.
But I really thought your tealdeer over at the TAA thread inappropriate. Islamophobia was a side issue, and I found your post really distracting.
If I didn’t know you any better I would have said that it’s a classical “stop talking about misogyny, this is more important” post.
Since I know you better I though you might want to know that this is how you came off to me.
Wow! New thread!
The Amazing Asshole thread is getting to be a real pain at just under 800 comments, would a few of you like to help push it over onto the second page so it becomes readable again?
I thought the ad in the topic header was pretty good. I have to wonder though; where is it going to be shown and where is ad time being bought? I doubt it will sway any god-botherers but hopefully this ad, and the billboards and bus banners being rolled out, will get the people sitting on their hands to maybe make a bit more fuss about the ridiculous things going on in this country. This probably addresses the question scifi1 asked in post 1 of this new TeT.
There’s something that you haven’t considered about all the noise generated by the goosestepping arm of the church folk, however. The have been allowed a lot of face time, but it has really done a service to their opponents by showing exactly how beyond repair their morals really are and how much ridiculous blather they are willing to spout for the sake of appeasing the worst and most dangerous segment of American society.
Hi! I got a question about this phrase from the “not-so-Amazing Atheist” post, but that thread seems pretty crowded.
PZ says:
Is this different from “I’m okay with you being gay, just don’t talk about it”? If so, how? I understand people can find both things “unpleasant”, but I would think if you said that about gay people you’d be called a bigot. Since the same post talks about being sex-positive, it confused me. It’s not like people with kinks are not discriminated against.
I guess you could argue “your stories” somehow implied gory details, but that seems a bit weak as a defense, as it would just be up to the person to say if that limit began at “I do this”.
Thoughts?
Another post on my off-nym blog, about the orcs in my world this time. Only one more of the Four Primes left to write about and boy are THEY an interesting race.
@Nerok:
I think there’s a fine difference between “me and my partner went out last night” and “I just had a wild night of mutual cunnilingus with my partner!”* Additionally, “my girl/boyfriend and I share the same kinks” and “I pee on my girlfriend in the tub” have the same sort of difference.
The problem is that those who say “I’m okay with gay people, just don’t talk about it” are typically more interested in shutting down the conversation in the first part, the “I went out with my partner” type of talk, the completely and utterly benign kind of conversation. They conflate even the barest mention of being in a gay or lesbian relationship with the sex therein.
It’s a double standard entirely that it’s okay to talk about your heterosexual relationship, since that’s normal, but a homosexual one is wrong and should be kept secret.
That’s the difference.
*Wow… that’s a really boring way to explain a supposed “wild night”
Do you honestly not see the difference between “Don’t display your sexual orientation” and “don’t share too much about your sex-life in public”?
No, I’d say the equivalent would be: please don’t talk about the wild [insert sexual practise here*] you had last night.
Or: “I’m OK with your kink but please stop existing in public”
*Don’t want to tread out the butt-sex trope, since that’s not exclusively something gay men do nor do all gay men do it
So after the failed attempts of our lame SC legislature trying to push through a tax payer funded “I Believe” license plate, a private group got together and got one approved.
Which is fine, we have a Secular Humanist “In Reason We Trust” one in SC as well as many others including Parrot Heads.
But look how fugly the I Believe one is.
Presumably the person in question would say they are into watersports, not “I pee on my girlfriend in the tub”, just as a gay person might say that and not “I sure love buttfucking” (sorry about the trope).
Your responses seem to presume the way the person would express it, which didn’t figure into the actual quote. The actual quote just served to make watersports sound “bad” and that you shouldn’t share stories about it to people who find it offensive.
I too would agree that talking about the details of your sex life isn’t appropriate in all context. And apparently the defense is “gory details”, like I suggested originally. Fine. I just find it a bit weak, especially given said sex-positive comments in the same post.
People with kinks don’t enjoy a very free reign before they hit the “that’s offensive to me” line. People will cringe openly if you just mention it – even with neutral words.
Extreme prudishness is a bore – but it’s still a different ting than “don’t talk about your orientation.
You see – sexual acts are usually part of the public domain, and there’s no general social pressure to bring them into the public domain.
On the other hand, who you partner with and share your life with is very much a part of the public domain. To the effect that’s it’s not possible living a full life as a homosexual without, in effect, “talking about it”.
It’s possible for me to function socially at work without discussing wheter I only like sex with my girlfriend in the vagina, or if the asshole is an equally tempting option.
It’s not possible for me to function socially without my girlfriend coming up. If I’d been gay and my girlfriend had been my boyfriend I’d have a pretty big problem if I wasn’t supposed to “talk about it”.
I see that some of the conversation from Teh Amazing Asshole thread has leaked over to here…uhm. Oh. Maybe ‘leaked’ is a poor choice of words. I think I will go have a golden shower…I MEAN SHOWER! and then go to bed.
Oh stop it, please, that’s ridiculous.
There’s usually a standard as to what information is appropriate in which context.
To say “I’m into BDSM” isn’t the same as saying “I did [insert explicit content here] last night”.
It’s biggoted when sexual minorities are held to a different standard than anybody else.
And what Gnumann said.
@Gnumann
It’s a fair argument. I still feel that makes it a “visible” / “nonvisible” minority situation.
@Giliell
I’m glad you agree.
My imaginary girlfriend and I are into fruitsports, but I won’t offend you with the pulpy details.
From last thread, Nerd, glad the Redhead seems to be taking the snafu in stride. Hugs to you both.
Even being on high dose oxycontin will not allow me to read the rape apology thread. Unlike Rush Limbaugh, I do not see the drug as a gateway to young Dominican boys.
JeffreyD, sorry to hear about your emergency appendectomy. Keep hanging in there with good humor and painkillers.
Ugh, I was falling asleep at the computer last night after dinner, and didn’t get a chance to read the TAA thread then. Digging into it now, only a score or so posts at a time. Ugh, there are some really stoopid people commenting, and I’m not even 1/10 the way through.
Oh, actually I do have a friend* who needed to have ths concept explained to him.
Because he’d make every Monday lunch the “Whom I fucked where and how at the weekend” hour.
If he’d been my boss I would have had a good sexual harassment case.
Nerd
Hope the Redhead makes speedy progress
JeffryD
Best wishes to you, too
*coincidentially, he’s also gay
@Nerd:
I couldn’t read much past the point I finished commenting… it’s just too asinine…
Wow, my phone line goes dead for a day and I miss the… whatever that mess with almost 800 comments is. The post kinda made me sick enough not to even try wading too deep into the comment section.
Hi, all. So glad I missed the AAT thread. I know I would not have been able to keep away. And I know that if it fires up again, I won’t be able to keep away.
I’ve been having fun playing with the fuel economy computer in my car. I discovered that 1cm of ice and snow on the hood and roof will take about 20% off of my mileage. If it wasn’t going to warm up and melt today, I’d go figure out a way to remove it.
====
I am currently looking at used/refurbished computers on Amazon. Anyone have any insight regarding what I should run from?
====
So fart jokes are the lowest form of humour? They rank under Santorum? Damn.
As it should be. They have to reprogramme the whole thing to make the letters all come out upside down. That costs money.
Good luck and best wishes to both of you. Be safe.
Sorry, can’t help on this one. The only definition for slurry that I have in my little brain is that of a solid suspended in a liquid — a coal slurry pipeline, or the mix of nitrogen fertilizer, water, and red dye used to combat wildland fires (and dropped from helos or fixed-wings). But then I tend to view the word through either a steam tech or wildland fire lense (with historical distortion, of course).
@ Therrin
Thanks for linkies on previous version of TET.
@ Kitty
Wait, wait,… let me guess… Pharyngulites?
(PS: You still owe me an answer to the maths question on the previous thread… :/ )
Oh, I expect that. But today’s reaction has a few hour long hold points. So I need some entertainment value during those periods.
I have a fire story if you are really, really, really desperate.
ugh, I totally agree. I shudder to think what manner of slime has oozed its way over here to drag it out to 800 comments.
I’m sorry. You’re right, and that wasn’t how I meant to come across at all, of course. I was talking about Pat Condell because he was repeatedly discussed earlier in the thread, and I’m generally reluctant to let discussions about Condell go unremarked; I wouldn’t have raised the subject out of the blue. I certainly did not want anyone to stop talking about misogyny, and indeed I did so myself later on. But I apologize that I came across as trying to derail the thread. (I tend to be very focused on the particular issues that I spend my days studying and writing about, which means I’m sometimes oblivious to the appropriate context of discussing them.)
@theophontes:
Yess… Pharyngulites! With tentacles, and the amazing powers of logic and reason and bacon :O
(Actually they’re a draconic humanoid race that functions to cover the “gnome” niche in fantasy stories – they’re steampunk! They also have no attention span!)
As per your maths question (you did ask at 12.30 AM…)
No. I can’t.
I am aware there is a trick to it, I just can’t remember what it was.
I remember the trick! You have to pair the numbers on either “side” of 50 so that you get neat little sums of 100, i.e. 1+99, 2+98, etc.
5050?
I’ve never heard slurry used in any other way than the rock/liquid one, but then again I grew up fundie.
Just had a wonderful little fifteen minute nosebleed. By the way, Josh, cauterization only works some of the time, I’ve had it done three times already with limited success.
@ Kitty
YES!
Kewl!
:DDDDDDDD
I haz a happy!
…er … you mean … no Pharyngulites? *sobs*
….
(Actually steampunk draconic humanoids sounds pretty damn cool too. I can imagine a poster of all the Pharyngulites in that style. I’d throw in a few cuttlefish, coyotes, tardigrades and a cephalopodic ebil oberlawd ™ for good measure.
@ Predator Handshake
You are on the right track right there.
I admit. I laughed.
TAA has descended into explicit death threats and gorn fantasy now. Even with the explicit trigger warning on it I think some people may want to be forewarned before they dig back into it.
It really bugs me that I can’t do say anything to these people to injure them in the same way to show them how it feels…because I couldn’t bring myself to go for a low blow like that.
I left the atheist thread at #430 yesterday evening.
Despite what I hear here I’m going back. Wish me luck.
—–
It’s 5050. 101×50
The thread not him himself. I think he’s been spanked enough to slate his attention whoring for now.
Brought ehre because it’s probably OT but I had a concern that I hope someone more into that kink scene or psychology could help me with.
with TAA giving his “I’m so submissive (which yeah btw is just another way of virtually flashing people) is there a possible um….sexual element to the jackassery? Is it possible to get off on pissing people off like that and incurring angry response? Is he just enjoying thie public pillorying? or is it inherently going to be an unenjoyable ‘pain’ because he’s not in control of it?
@theophontes:
Ehe, yea. They’re a really interesting race. The most interesting thing about them is how different they are from the other three primes. If you read my page, today’s thing about orcs talks about how human they look despite a few minor differences (skin color, general size.) The elves are similar (skin color, pointy ears.)
The tallis (the draconic humanoids) are basically non-human. The only thing to link them to humans is that they walk on two legs. Destruction kind of made them as a source of pride as a method of saying “hey look, I created you!” cause they don’t look anything like the other primes or like the human-ish races in the world created by the magic energies of the planet itself (the mesan and the ogre races.)
It’s a stab in the heart of science, a reason to be absolutely sure they were specially created and not evolved or natural. Destruction wanted the race to absolutely worship him, to bow down and know him as their creator for all existence… and yet they DON’T!
Out of all the races in the primes, the tallis are the only ones who’ve continually advanced scientifically. They’ve mastered technologies that the rest of the primes find worrying. They’re endlessly curious, asking questions into their past and their creation. They know that magic is an energy source and not “magic” and short of developing methods to harness it, they’re actually actively researching how magic works.
The tallis are a completely off-the-wall race. I ♥ them ^^
I think people make good points on the distinction between mentioning a partner and giving details on sexual experiences. I think there’s also a pretty big difference in terms of what response you’ll get too.
I might qualify as one the “extreme prudes” Gnumann mentions, since I don’t particularly want to hear the details of your sex life, whether you’re gay, straight, poly, or other; kinky or vanilla; whatever. But the biggest response you’ll get out of me is an exclamation of “Dude! Too much information!” People who slip and mention a same-sex partner in front of a bigot could face anything from social ostracization to outright violence. I simply don’t think that the two are comparable.
I do want to ask though (and I’m aware there could be details in the response), do kinky folks consider that to be a part of their identity in the way that LGBT folks do? It’s utterly unreasonable for a person to be unable to mention a same-sex partner, since that person is a major part of one’s life, and will figure into answering questions as banal as “Hey, what did you do over the weekend?” But while I see the distinction between “I’m into watersports” and “I like to get peed on,” I wonder how the first would even come up in conversation with, say, a coworker or an acquaintance.
@ We Are Ing
Next he will tell you about his sex life. The psychology term is “hoggling”.
@ Kitty
Aha! I knew they were Pharyngulites. ;)
{theophontes skips off merrily in search of orcs}
Psh, you are WAY behind. PZ already updated that wonderful bit of brain bleach.
Ing @ #38: Now there’s a thought I did not want to ponder before finishing my breakfast.
Eskeptical Engineer @ #40: Some do, though most don’t, and I’ve only ever met one who did. (My ‘nym, for example, is an A Wrinkle In Time allusion. For one, I have far too much major depression irl to count as happiest.) I’ll be open about it if asked or among the like-minded, but otherwise, what I do for fun doesn’t come up. If I went to munches and such, I might mention that, but again, that’s not as much a sexual act as a meetup. More openness may be required if, say, there are visible marks and the viewer expresses concern, but that’s a different matter.
FWIW, I’m also advising people not wade back into the TAA thread. I mostly lurked until like 450 or 500, and it’s just a series of MRA trolls burning out and being replaced like a damn relay race. But, I guess we don’t want them to have the last word?
Eskeptrical Engineer @ #40: In my own case, I’m genderqueer and queer first, kinky is somewhere near “really good cook” and “pulp horror obsession”. Kind of further down the “what one learns about Happiestsadist” list.
The “DONT DO WHAT OTHERS TELL YOU! YOU ONLY CARE BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD YOU TO” liberturds that TJ seems to attract like flies to dung are HILARIOUS. It’s like someone gav3 a bunch of 12 year olds “My first Nietzsche”
Indeed. Particularly the way that they seem to think “freedom of speech” means “freedom from being criticized”.
Ing @ #46: Bwaahahahahaha! There’s no shortage of that type of pseudosopher. “How to tell if you’re Ubermensch: if you’re reading this, then yes! Feel free to use your superior status to be as much of an ignorant dumbass as possible. Being superior, you don’t need to learn anything more. Disregard anything actually said by the philosophers I’m poorly plagiarizing.”
Okay, that is hilarious. Happiestsadist FTW!
I see the same sort of underlying psychology with Newt and TJ’s and fans
The erroneous belief that your ruthlessness is intelligence.
D’aww, thank you.
@theophontes:
They could be Pharyngulites XD
Which I would totally understand to mean surfing and the like, leading no doubt to some sitcomish exchanges.
***
So did I.
There is definitely a time when I was like, 18 or 19, that I would have been on the wrong end of that whole debate. I had some choice words for my RA for forcing everybody to sit down and watch a half-hour-long “don’t dress up in racist costumes on Halloween please” movie. At the time, I believe I said something along the lines of “Suck it up and read the first amendment,” which is something I definitely regret.
I also objected to the sexual assault statistics in a MRA-like way. Ah, youth. It’s actually pretty impressive how much difference just a few years can make, although they don’t always.
THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT CURRENT! DO DO DO DO DO DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUP! *Iris*
@ mcwaffle
Advised. (I gather that that thread and my SIWOTI will do me no favours, so have stayed out.)
Me too. I was a raging misogynist and homophobe when I was in my mid-teens. I got better over time, but I still had plenty of clueless sexist ideas when I first came to Pharyngula, as some people will remember. (I was just under 19 then; I’m 22 now.)
Me, too.
Yet I’d still think that a “neutral” response would be “I had a fun weekend with my partner” or something like that.
I’m not a prude, but there’s a time and place for everything.
I have enjoyed reading (less participating) quite some exchanges here about the particular kinks/fetishes people have. They were usually made in some context.
Pushing unsolicited information about your sexlife on somebody borders on harrasment IMO, and can become harrasment in some situations (just think about a 40 something male boss offering that information to his 20 something secretary).
Walton
I know he was mentioned and people mostly meantioned that he gets a cold reception around here. But fucking islamophobia and racism weren’t the subject so, yeah, although well-meant it was still pretty derailing.
Argh, fuck, I need to get #1 an appointment with an orthopedist. We’d always hoped that when the muscles become stronger that she would turn the foot inwards less, but somehow I don’t see any progress.
*whoosh*
I never, never would have thought myself a homophobe, misogynist, or racist, and I still would argue that I wasn’t, I was just 10 kinds of privileged and didn’t really understand the ramifications of it. I was thinking things like, “Why is there no men’s history month” or “people shouldn’t be offended by those racial costumes” or “these statistics tar all men as rapists and can’t be true, must just be fear-mongering.”
I think that’s why it’s such a persistent, nasty strain of troll. They honesty believe they are just for “equality” and “fairness” as though they were operating in a cultural, socio-politial vacuum full of Rational Actors. It’s “irrational” to actually look at society as-it-is and think of the real-world implications of your actions. In fantasy land, it’s OK to say horrible racist things because, “we’re all pals, and you know it’s just a joke” and everybody responds “Oh, McWaffle, has your wit no end? You’re the most handsome, dashing, and oh-so-edgy man I’ve ever met! Let’s drink Fleichman’s in your dorm room and make out!”
Theophontes, #579, last thread:
An anecdote a friend shared with me recently that can be recounted as follows:
1. Hear from your high school chemistry teacher that swimming pool cleaner + brake fluid = rainbow-colored flame.
2. Tell your friends. Go to Mall-Wart to buy pool cleaner and brake fluid.
3. Mix them up in a trash can on your or one of your friends’ front lawns.
4. Be disappointed that the can is smoking but not flaming. Stir it up with a stick, then throw in a lit match.
5.
PROFIT!!Marvel at the 16-foot rainbow flame shooting up from the trash can, perilously close to overhanging tree branches.6. Nearly shit your pants when a cop drives by right at that moment.
7. Note that the cop is shaking his head and laughing. Watch him drive off without saying anything to you.
I’m not comfortable with that wording. Some of the most brilliant people I know are ex-military.
Classical Cipher, #593, last thread: This isn’t really a collection of quotes as much as recommended reading, but you might want to check out Ta-Nehisi Coates’ blog on The Atlantic. He frequently writes about the U.S. Civil War, as he has written or is still writing a work of fiction based in that period.
Josh, #597, last thread: Please take care of yourself. Please. These shitbags are NOT worth compromising your health over.
Nerok: Being gay, or lesbian or bisexual or transgender, is more than about just having sex.
Heterosexual people talk about being heterosexual all the time without discussing their bedroom habits: They talk about their wives or husbands or boyfriends or girlfriends. There’s no good reason GLBT people should not be able to likewise talk about their partners openly and to anybody. But talking about what you like to do in bed (or in the dungeon) should be limited to people who want to hear about it.
And, please, as someone with kinks myself, I roll my eyes at the implication that we’re anywhere near as oppressed as GLBT people. We’re really, really not. To answer Eskeptrical Engineer’s question, straight/cis kinky people who actually think we are need to check their privilege.
Ing: Damn you, now I need to add “book cover of My First Nietzsche” to my list of amusing Photoshop projects.
McWaffle: I’ve identified as a feminist since adolescence and I’ve still harbored any number of unfeminist ideas until fairly recently. I wish youngsters got more formal exposure to basic sociology, especially in the U.S., where we have some pretty extreme ideas about what “individualists” we all are.
I’m at #595 in the Atheist thread and I’m wondering how to fit this (from SC) on a t-shirt.
Dye in a fire?
Race you for it! With his mustache I’m thinking of editing The Lorax as the base.
Ing @31 – it’s possible. I know some pretty serious humiliation fetishists. It wouldn’t have been my first thought though.
Eskeptrical Engineer @40 – for some kinky folk it’s definitely orientative. That said, people can talk about their vanilla lives without talking about their kink. It’s harder when it’s D/s as a lifestyle, and some people do not hide that because it is so integral. Others make other choices.
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Theophontes, TLC, et al:
In junior high, some friends and I discovered the wonders of saltpeter (nitre) plus sugar. And proceeded to burn a mis-spelled four letter word (FUKC) on main street in our small town. It lasted for about a year as moderately visible.
Swimming pool cleaner plus brake fluid was out of our league (mostly because the local store carried nitre for curing hams, but did not carry anything for swimming pools (our swimming pool was Antietam Creek)).
Missed that little bit. I, too, know some brilliant people in the military. And for some of them, it may have been the only realistic way to allow their brilliance to achieve usefulness.
Regarding the line between being gay coming up in a conversation and explicit sexual practices…
… being gay isn’t necessarily sexual, nor do I need to be discussing sex for it to come across. I could say something like, “Hey, you were asking about Calabi-Yau Manifolds* the other day; this guy I’m dating happens to be a string theorist**…” and suddenly it’s pretty obvious I’m gay.
The people who complain of, “I don’t care if you’re gay, I just don’t want to hear about it,” are basically trying to force people like me to police a huge section of casual conversation that they themselves don’t police: how often does “my wife” or “my husband” come up in just every-day statements? “Hey, my husband made an awesome steak last night.” “Girlfriend and I went to see the new Ridley Scott flick…” etc.
It’s a demand for a privileged positon and is inherently discriminatory.
* And no, that’s not a stretch. You wouldn’t believe how often I end up in conversations about the shape of multidimensional space. And I’m a computer geek in a hospital, for tentacle’s sake. It’s like people just seek me out for this stuff.
** And no, we’re not actually dating; he’s in New Jersey, and I missed him when he was out last time. But we’ll hopefully go out next time he stops by CalTech.
@ Ms. Daisy Cutter, post 61:
At the risk of inviting dictionary pedants, kink culture exists. The “it’s about sex” argument is tired, and I regret not making it clear that I was comparing only the similarity in attacks from others, not making the argument that homosexuality is all about sex. With that in mind, I hope you too expressed yourself in an unfortunate manner.
That was never the point of my argument. And I find it odd that you would make it an issue of comparative oppression. I actually thought that argument was steamrolled to death here after the Dawkins comment.
Makes it easier for the pilots to see the areas that have already been slimed (when the stuff it wet, it has a gelatinous sliminess to it which is weird (the fertilizer retards the speed at which the water evaporates and the gelatinous aspect helps it stick to trees, grasses, shrubs, trucks, firefighters))).
I should put in a comment about “Go dye in a fire” with some witticism appended, but I am unable to come up with one. Sorry.
Ogvorbis:
AHAHAHA.
I once read a police log incident in which a bunch of bored teenagers poured some kind of flammable liquid onto the pavement in roughly the shape of a pentagram and tried to light it on fire. That was also amusing, not because of the damage they could have done but the ~~edginess~~ of it all.
Nerok: Shove your petulance and your condescension up your ass, kthx. Your question #6 did in fact imply that kink and gender nonconformity were on a par politically. And, no, the attacks from others are NOT anywhere near similar, because kink can and often does adhere strictly to traditional gender roles.
Nerok @ #68 : It really does sound like you’re (still) implying that kink and queerness experience similar levels of oppression, starting with the stupid fucking JAQing off you started with. Thanks for explaining to the kinky folks who answered you that there’s a kink culture, we never would have guessed. You’re making a stupid equivalence.
Yeah, I couldn’t come up with anything witty either, so I just left it as is.
The Recent Unpleasantness that is the TAA thread (which I haven’t tried to wade through since somewhere around #300 or #400) came to mind when I saw this post by abi sutherland, a moderator at Making Light, which is sort of a meta-discussion around the problems of getting terminology right in online discussions. A sample:
It’s a pretty good conversation; I find myself nodding in recognition quite a bit. (f nothing else, I just love her coinage “infrapont”…)
And when firefighters get splashed with slurry, it is very important to get it washed off.
[[[WARNING: FIRE STORY]]]
I was at a fire in Oregon in 2002. While I was there, the area got its first measureable rainfall in five months. And beat the fire back really well. To the point that we transitioned from a Type 1 to a Type 3 in two days.
Those of use taking airplanes home drove to Portland and flew out the next day. Well, most of us did.
One woman had been doing two jobs at the fire — a dip site supervisor and Type 2 handcrew. While working handcrew, her crew set some back fires (this is done with a drip torch filled with a 1:4 mixture of gasoline and fuel oil). It is almost impossible to mix and load the fuel without spilling. And some spilled on the yellow pack (the yellow pack carries all PPE, as well as a few other things needed on the fire line; the red pack carries all one’s extra clothing, the tent, etc, and remains in the fire camp or spike camp).
While working the dip site, she got soaked in slurry. When helicopters pick up slurry at a dip site (also called a pumpkin), anyone and anything within 50 yards gets dripped on and splashed.
So. Here it is, less than a year after 9/11. She shows up with checked luggage that has both nitrogen fertilizer and fuel oil residue on it and in it. Think about it.
Portland had one of the new machines to look for traces of stuff used to make bombs. Like fuel oil and fertilizer.
The armed response was impressive.
She flew out the next day but here luggage went by FedEx.
Wait, you say, doesn’t FedEx send by air? Yes, yes they do.
[END FIRE STORY!!! NOW SAFE TO CONTINUE READING!!!!]
Sorry ’bout that.
Yes, and I’m sorry. It honestly did not occur to me at all that it would be a derail, but that’s a privilege-fail on my part, as well as a symptom of the fact that I’m used to concentrating on particular issues.
@ Ms. Daisy Cutter, post 70
Petulance and condescension? I’m not sure where you picked that up from my post, but I’m sure getting it here.
You just doubled down on “lesser oppression” then? We shouldn’t bother? Because, and now I’ve stated it clearly twice, that wasn’t the point of my argument.
@ Happiestsadist, post 71
It sure seemed like the kinky person in question wasn’t aware, since it completely undercuts the argument about it being about sex.
I’m also unsure why both of you are being so hostile. I thought this would be an issue where this place would be supportive?
#801
Nerok @ #76: I’m hostile because either your question was in terrible faith, or you suck at expressing yourself. I’m sure you well know that not all kinky folks participate in kink culture. And you are still drawing a comparison between how you get off and who you partner with. Which is a tired-ass tactic of homophobes, which you should be aware of if you know anything at all about the history of queerness.
and done.
What’s happening here?
bwah, my @78 was a really great quotebork. i’m just gonna trust the smart people here can still figure it out.
@Happiestsadist, post 79
What I was suggesting is rather that the attacks against both share a hell of a lot, likely has a common origin and that it might be a good idea to work together instead of kicking “down” the totem pole. I know that it’s not uncommon for people to be pro-LGB issues and *not* be particularly nice to the T or Q.
What I felt in the original comment was an unnecessary slam on a kink.
The suggestions throughout that this is about sex and that shouldn’t be discussed with people who don’t want to hear it ring a bit false, since that’s exactly what bigots use to shut down gay people – as you just pointed out. Not talking about it isn’t a good way to get acceptance there, and I think the same holds true for kinks. The less people know, the more “weird” it seems, the easier it is for bigotry to thrive.
Have I expressed myself more clearly?
Yes, you’ve showed that you still don’t understand the difference between mentioning your sexual orientation/kink and talking about your sex-life in graphic detail.
You have, and it’s still wrong and appropriating. Simple enough for you?
I also love how you informed that about the transphobia in the queer community, and how it’s totes the same, when I already have stated that I’m not cis. ‘Splaining much?
I believe that kink can be an orientational thing for some (though by no means all or possibly even most) people into it. However, that doesn’t make straight kinksters anywhere near queer or facing the same shit that LGBTQI folks get. They’re straight. Yes, they do get their own shit, but appropriating the oppression of others is really not cool. It’s not cool when queer activists start with “gay is the new black” shit, and that is pretty much what you’re doing here. Stop it. I would venture that for most kinky people, it is about the sex acts that get them off, it certainly is for me. My queerness is about who I love, partner with, that whole deal.
So, I’ve found a rare critter indeed… A Christian on the internet willing to admit when they are wrong and answer questions in a long discussion.
I figured some of you would be interested in seeing such a thing (I know *I* thought they were extinct!), so here I am dropping a link.
Also, if you could point out anything you think I’ve gotten wrong, I’d greatly appreciate it. I think it’d at least be a refreshing change from the vileness all over the TAA thread.
Some leftovers from the previous ep:
No, I think he’s caught in the middle of counting something.
.
theophontes:
That makes sense. Does anyone have access to OED online here? I have so far failed to find any freely-available confirmation outside urbandictionary.
Though I did find this, which, eww. Talk about TMI.
I’ve mentioned here like a billion times that I’m a submissive, to the point that I’m pretty sure many of the regulars remember that about me. Yet I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned what specifically I do in bed, except perhaps in response to misogynistic trolls who were claiming that the existence of women like me means they should be misogynist assholes all over the place. I’m therefore pretty sure that you can draw a distinction between discussing “kink culture”/kink-orientation and telling everybody what specific kinky sexual acts you’ve been engaging in recently.
Look, FFS, it’s not that complicated. Bigots who say it’s about sex are lying. This is easy to tell because they say it’s about sex when really it’s about raising children together or supporting each other through hospitalization or going to the museum together over the weekend or holding hands on the street after dinner.
Bigots do not claim it’s about sex when heterosexual people want the rights to do these things or to talk about these things. We know they’re lying when they say their objections are about sex. They’re being disingenuous. Dishonest. It’s a con. Okay?
On the other hand, if I don’t want to hear about someone’s sex life, then that’s about sex. Asking someone not to talk about their actual sex life is not asking them to hide their partners, or trying to take their kids away, or preventing them from being together when one of them is hospitalized, or asking them not to talk about their family or their partner.
I’m a big proponent of the idea that kink is not necessarily confined to sex, but you’re barking up the wrong tree here. there really is a line. Where that line may be depends on the individual, but essentially it’s discriminatory and bigoted to prevent people from talking about their partners and families but it’s reasonable to not want to hear more about someone’s sexual activities than you’re comfortable with.
Slurry: Here in the TLC dictionary, Slurry has ALWAYS been that watery grit that builds up on the surface of a wet stone when sharpening a knife, and helps get a nice smooth shaving-sharp edge. The slurry, as I understand it, acts both as a lubricant and a micro-fine abrasive at the same time.
Ms. Daisy Cutter:
As I read it, the “in spite of his brilliance” was more of a contrast to “long life… in the Greek army”. The question is what he did in the army. If he spent most of his life as a grunt, then that seems to be a waste of a great mind.
All:
Is there a test for audio discrimination? More importantly, is there any treatment that will improve it?
I’ve found that I often have a hard time understanding speech when there’s even a small amount of background noise, and I’m constantly asking people to repeat themselves. Typically, if someone doesn’t have my attention, they sound like Charlie Brown’s teacher.
I do have some hearing loss, but not that much.
Benjamin: I’ve known two other people who’ve had the same issue re: background noise and understanding speech. Out of curiosity, have people ever told you that you talk too loudly? They both do, and it seems to be associated with their understanding others.
Also, I notice you didn’t say shit about fanboying the indefensible and triggering the fuck out of me. Good job.
HS: Don’t expect him to. I’m sure he doesn’t even understand what was so fucked up about the Miller post and, more to the point, doesn’t want to.
nerok:
Let’s try this again: sexuality and gender have nothing (or very little to do with sex. They’re about identity and attraction. They’re almost impossible to separate from day-to-day life, as they intersect with it in many ways. This has been expressed.
Kink is almost exclusively about eroticisim and sex. While some people choose to expand kink into a lifestyle choice (such as D/s), the vast majority of kinks do not intersect day-to-day life outside of the bedroom (or wherever you happen to do it).
Kink and sex should be topics that are open for discussion in appropriate settings. Casual conversation at the office, for example, is (probably) not one of those settings. However, sexuality and gender will come up in a casual conversation at the office because of how much they intersect day-to-day life.
Therefore, asking someone to suppress any mention or implication of sexuality or gender is a much higher burden than asking them to suppress any mention or implication of kink. Further, bigots aren’t asking to suppress all mention of sexuality or gender; they’re only asking to suppress such discussions from one group. That makes it discrimination.
If you can find someone in this group who doesn’t want to talk about kink in the same setting they’re willing to talk about more vanilla sex, then you can start discussing hypocracy in this group. But you can’t equate “you can’t talk about something I’m allowed to talk about” to “none of us should be talking about something”.
And if you really can’t see the difference – and it’s pretty broad – well, then, I’m not sure what to tell you.
Happiestsadist/Ms. Daisy Cutter:
If you two are done hoggling over me, could we move on?
Charming. Told you so, HS.
Thanks to y’all doing good work in the TAA thread, so the rest of us can take breaks… including y’all on the front lines, when you need to.
Blogging While Female, or why we need a posse
(emphasis mine)
Speaking of which, if anyone didn’t see this (via Natalie) :
Baltimore conservatives up in arms against trans rights law
Natalie in comments:
I just called the Baltimore City Council to register my support for their pending trans protection bill, and they were very nice. The measure will be discussed on Feb 14, goes for a vote on Feb 21 and it’s on their page here, bill 3-12 Human Relations:
http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/countycouncil/legislation/pending%20legislation.html
Especially in the context of the Amazing Atheist thread, I’d say.
Oh I’m sorry, does the fact that you are defending a criminal act )that the guy who nearly raped me to death did as a warmup) left me with PTSD flashbacks make you feel uncomfortable? Do you want to keep defending a photographer’s “right” to invade women’s bodies and space?
You fucking triggered me, asshole. And, unsurprisingly, are making all about how bullied poor Benjamin is. FUCK YOU.
You certainly called it, Ms. Daisy. Sexual violence is irrelevant if caring about it interferes with Ben’s hobby, it seems.
Simple: Taking photos in a public space is not a criminal act.
A guy shot video on a public (crowded) street of a group of people, including a woman who was posing. He never touched her. He never even got close to her. How is this an “invasion of bodies and space”?
If someone making a rational comment triggers you, you need to get professional help.
You first.
“Sexual violence”? Obviously we’re talking about completely different incidents, because the only violence that occurred during the incident I’m talking about was some goober on a bicycle attacking the videographer.
*correction: Baltimore COUNTY Council, gah.
Benjamin, you can be a real goddamn jerk and it’s disgusting that you never, ever take responsibility for your jerk behavior.
Last Thread:
It’s hard to go wrong with Brownie Therapy. :)
(Ya know, I’m having a terrible time, what with this pain in all the diodes up and down my left side….)
–
–
This Thread:
Apples and oranges, dude. Apples and oranges.
And…bananas.
:D
–
Taking photos of a stranger’s ass, without their consent, for erotic purposes actually is a criminal act in Canada, where HappiestSadist is from.
It may not be a criminal act in the States, but it’s certainly skeevy as all hell, and I would avoid any man who felt entitled to do that, because it shows a disrespect for boundaries. Same as it’s legal to call a woman a cunt, but I’d also avoid men who did that.
Ah, right, “rational,” in the creepbag sense of “completely ignoring context and devoid of empathy.”
And did you forget the part where the videographer is gay? And how do you define “erotic purposes”? Should we ban photos of roadkill or elbows and peanut butter?
Did you actually watch the video?
… and did you forget the part where the incident took place in Times Square, which, last I checked, isn’t in Canada?
Happiestsadist, post 84
I missed that. I’m also not sure what’s wrong with openly stating it, even if it’s likely you know and agree. Others reading might not.
I don’t understand this. You have to be able to say “if this is the reasoning why *this* is wrong, it should also apply to this” without it becoming “this is wrong, and this is the same thing”. Those are two separate arguments.
Okay. It’s great that you feel that way. I slice it differently.
@ Kristinc, post 88
I’ve seen that kind of bigot. I’ve also met plenty of people who seem genuinely repulsed at the very thought of gay *sex*, homophobes to the core. To them “I’m gay” really is about sex. *Why* they’re wired like that is a whole other book.
I’m not advocating public disclosure of the details in any sex life. I stated that in the original post. But I also think people with kinks should be able to express they’re there. Without it being about sex.
If that causes a short circuit in someone, I’m sorry.
Benjamin Geiger:
Don’t ever fucking compare yourself to me again, you stupid asshole. I didn’t want to say anything ‘mean’ then, but I’ll fucking say it now: I am nothing like you. I may be having a few difficulties with the opposite sex, but I would die of shame if I ever acted as creepy as you do.
You make me fucking sick.
Geiger:
Did you see HS’s comment last thread that they were assaulted by a gay man? And Walton’s remark that the guy thought that recording this video would earn him some attention — at the expense, of course, of the girl involved?
GMAFB. Inanimate objects can’t be objectified, and distributing videos of them does not violate the privacy of those objects, nor subject them to reputation-harming shaming and possible harassment.
Yes. Any more disingenuous questions?
Nerok:
Yeah, it’s all our fault for overreacting to what you said, rather than that you’re saying anything fucked up.
Such as that people who feel the need to express “genuine repulsion” at the thought of “gay sex” (what kind of gay sex? Because it’s not monolithic) aren’t really homophobes. Yes, they are. If they can’t help being “grossed out,” maybe they should just STFU and stop thinking so much about it. And their revulsion is much more likely enculturated than “hard-wired.”
So I was going to wade into the kink/queer etc thing, but instead I’ll say what Classical Cipher said at 87.
…I don’t have time to help ream Ben Geiger right now, so I’ll just say WHAT THEY SAID. Ben, you’re a selfish frickin’ douchebag who doesn’t care WHO gets hurt as long as it’s never ever you. I’m ashamed to share a minor disability with you. I’ll still have to answer you about auditory discrimination, because I can’t stop myself being helpful even to a jackass like you; but I will have to suck it up first.
TLC and Pteryxx: Clenched-tentacle salutes to you both.
I have had therapy, Benny-boy. Lots and lots of it. Because of shit like the bullshit you’re defending. I couldn’t leave the house for years before that because I was afraid of creeps like you, and the asshole you’re defending. Thankfully, I live in a country where that’s illegal, though this is a recent change. I wonder: did they have to make it illegal because of shitpiles like you, who need to be threatened with criminal charges before they get some idea of human decency? You’re the moral equivalent of the little “do not use while showering” stickers on a hair dryer.
I especially like the sexist little dig about your “rationality”. You’re not rational. You’re a shitty little bully who despises people who aren’t exactly like you or who don’t coddle your special snowflake ass.
I don’t give half a semiliquid chilishit that the “artiste” is gay. I’ve been sexually assaulted by a gay man when I was in girlmode. And people dismissed it, like you’re doing now. Rape culture thanks you, Benny.
BTW: thanks to TLC, Pteryxx and Daisy
Pteryxx, Daisy Cutter, and HappiestSadist: Nothing in my entire online life has made me feel dirtier or slimier than when Benjamin Geiger compared his douchebaggery to my difficulties in meeting women who are into me. I seriously felt unclean. Tainted.
Jeebus Ben, it really is all about you, isn’t it?
@ Richard Austin, post 93
Well argued post. This was the meaty bit.
I think that is selling most bigotry short. They’re really multifaceted when it comes to shutting people down. :)
That happens so often. I’m not sure if there’s a cultural difference at play here, but talking about sex isn’t that uncommon here. Certainly not in the broad sense (e.g. not intimate details). And there’s a clear difference between how much you’re allowed to talk about.
I guess the main thrust of it is that it’s hard to build acceptance if you can’t talk about something. You can point to people that have come out and people can see that they’re normal people in all walks of life. That’s a great thing. I guess this is what I was alluding to earlier with the “visible” / “nonvisible” analogy.
I’ll think about it some more.
I’ve very clearly missed something. What is Benjamin defending now?
Win for wordsmithery.
Win for accuracy.
This is one of the many, many reasons why I have an internet crush on you.
Non-consensual photograph-subjectry.
–
Drbunsen:
It always is.
And, yes, HappiestSadist is a remarkable wordsmith.
Starstuff: He’s defending strangers taking photos of women in public without the women’s permission for the wanking enjoyment of said strangers and other strangers. Legal in some places, illegal in others, creepy everywhere. I reacted angrily here to a photography blog he’d recommended earlier that’s OK with this practice. He defends the blogger at #495, I retort at #498, HS throws in at #504, and there’s legal analysis from Walton at #513.
IOW, he sees it as a victimless non-crime.
–
To kristinc:
One follow-up to a prior thread. A problem with audio discrimination is included in the broad range of symptoms for Asperger’s Syndrome. It is not as easily diagnosed as simple hearing loss, and has its’ own separate test.
I really don’t recommend trying to diagnose your own family members. Your experience of ADHD or AS may be very different from that of each of your children. It takes a trained expert to figure it out. Quite important: A pediatrician is _not_ a trained expert in complex childhood development problems, and most likely will not be able to differentiate ADHD from AS. In the case of AS, you should consider pediatricians more like general MDs (i.e. not at all useful for this problem). Get a referral to a specialist if at all possible.
Express them how? Where? At work? At lunch? To a stranger in a movie theater line? I really don’t even know what the hell you’re talking about. It’s not like people with vanilla sexual expressions are entitled to yap about them indiscriminately — I don’t want to hear how much a straight vanilla dude loves pussy or what sort of condoms are his favorite, either. It’s an across the board issue of appropriateness.
Look, I’ve personally had some angst in the past about feeling there were aspects of my relationships I had to keep quiet about to some people, because of their D/s nature, but I never had to hide the fact that I had a partner or who my partner was or that we did relationship type things together. Being forced to hide information about your relationship or your family is nothing like being asked to not share the details of a certain sex act, which is exactly and specifically what PZ’s original post did and you objected to.
It’s the difference between “I don’t want to hear about the existence of your wife and you may face violence if you mention that you have a wife” and “I’m not comfortable hearing about what kind of strapon your wife uses”.
@ cicely
Was there a specific incident that started this discussion?
Context also matters. Around the water cooler with co-workers is far different than drunk with boy/girl friends.
StarStuff: clicky.
Ah, I see now. The more I hear from Ben, the less I like him. Seriously, Ben, would you just listen to what people have to say for once instead of acting like they’re persecuting you?
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck…
Have you ever done something so blisteringly stupid that has the potential – if not to cost you your job, then to reduce the ability you have for doing your job and thereby more or less costing you your job – and then due to the nature of your job, HAVE to report it to the people who’ll determine whether it’s worth costing you your job?
Jerry Alexandratos: thanks, I have to start at the pediatrician, but I know something is going on here and I plan on pushing till someone can adequately determine what and how to help her, which will probably mean referrals.
I’ve been comfortable armchair-diagnosing myself and my son because my time for intervention is past (and self-diagnosing helped me with strategies to manage the issues I do have) and my son has never needed intervention or professional assistance. It gives us a way to better understand for ourselves what might be going on, which is enough, but it’s not my general approach to problems that need specialized solutions.
Kristinc, I am agreeing wholeheartedly.
http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2012-02-06.gif
Just because.
Jerry and Kristin, re auditory issues: I have never been formally diagnosed with any ASD, but autism runs in my family, and I do have some of the traits. I have a harder time than most people seem to understanding spoken words against background noise. Also, once in a while it takes me a second to “process” something.
I was mortified, some years ago, when I was speaking over the phone to someone I had worked with who had taken a leave of absence after her son died. Rather thoughtlessly, I asked her what he had died of, and she said, “Suicide.”
I immediately said, “Oh,” as if she’d said “cancer” or “car accident.” Then, about a second later, my brain processed it, the weight of it hit me, and I said, “Oh, my god. I am so sorry.” She didn’t seem to notice, fortunately, but, damn, I felt awful for that.
Wow. I just watched that video. What the fuck are you doing trying to defend that, Ben? Seriously, are you that fucked up?
So, how exactly do I killfile someone?
@drbunsen:
*hug* Thanks… that helped a little bit… made me laugh despite my impending nervous breakdown…
Katherine: {{{hugs}}}
I hope the people you’re reporting to are sympathetic and forgiving.
Katherine
Shit, that sounds really bad. I hope it works out well for you and you won’t lose your job.
Katherine: *hugs if’n you want ’em* I hope things work out as well as possible.
I solved the issue, so I don’t think I’ll get anything but a reprimand, but it’s something that, if I don’t get a sympathetic ear, could seriously reduce the ability I have to do my job…
*hugs* for Katherine.
–
Yes. And I have recieved a written reprimand once (out of file in two years (this was fifteen years ago)). And last summer, I reported a mistake that I and a fellow SEC2 had made (he made the mistake, I failed to countermand) and went home from a fire early.
After twenty years of screwing up, all I can say is, no matter how uncomfortable, stupid, or weird, report it right away.
===
Ben:
Legal does not mean ethical; legal does not mean it is okay; legal does not even mean acceptable.
I understand the difficulties extant with freedom of speech as regards photography (I have been hassled by NJ Transit police for taking a photo of a train from a public sidewalk). Try to see the non-photographer point of view in instances like this.
*Internet brownies* to all who need them.
*Internet brownies with peanut butter* to those who aren’t allergic.
My friend who had her first break-up seems okay today. She’s being impressively stereotypical – ice cream last night and planning a haircut, pedicure, and shopping trip for this weekend. I guess this is good…? She’s been talking to another friend who actually has social skills, so that’s good.
I wonder what I’ll do the first time someone breaks up with me. Ice cream sounds good, but I might follow it up with shooting some clay pigeons and going fishing for a few days. I have to admit, I enjoy combining conflicting stereotypes and watching people’s brains explode as they try to process it. Free entertainment, and it makes people think.
Fuck my state.
VA Senate OKs Bill Allowing Private Agencies to Deny Adoptions Based on Religious Beliefs – in other words “children are better off with no parents than with a gay or lesbian couple.”
Thanks to Happiestsadist, Muse, Ms. Daisy Cutter, and kristinc for the thoughtful answers. I’m hearing that there is some variation in how much kink plays a role in identity, so for some it’s in integral part of who they are while for others it’s something they do.
Oh, and I hope I didn’t miss anyone there!
People cope with breakups in a lot of ways, some stereotypical, some less, so. Though it depends on the nature of the breakup. I haven’t had many, so I can’t say a lot.
Internet brownies are nice. :)
@Nutmeg:
My first (high school) breakup, I wept, built a puzzle with my mom, and tried to woo my girlfriend back with bad music… Yea I know, pitiful innit?
@Katherine: Ahh, high school. So glad I didn’t date then! It makes for good stories, though.
I was discussing the situation with another group of friends (via IRC), and one made several good points.
More shitfuckery from NH legislators — they want to make it legal for employees to deny workers lunch breaks, even unpaid ones.
Eskeptrical Engineer: I think something that you do can be a part of your identity. In my case, I’d stick my kink on the same shelf of descriptors as I do my baking, writing short horror fiction, makeup obsession, and clunkie (like a furry, but with robots) interests. So not as immediately discernable from casual meeting as my orientation, gender status and basic appearance, but something general that people learn as they get to know me. I will happily expound on/demonstrate my thoughts on eyeliner, lavender/fresh peach as well as grapefruit/black pepper culinary OTPs, and kink activity preferences if asked, but that’s about it.
Benji, nobody cares what your equally empathy-devoid dudebro buddies have to say.
And you weren’t being “baited.” You were being called out for something you’d done on the previous thread. You’ve been around long enough to notice that conversations frequently continue from thread to thread.
Stop digging, for fuck’s sake.
Yes, your lurkers who support you in email agree with you that I’m just being a mean, persecutory jerkface for pointing out that your defence of rape-culture shit triggered me. Why am I not surprised that you have friends who enable your misogyny and creepiness?
Also, Benji, I think it’s really interesting why your friend there thinks he should be anonymous when he’s supporting the indefensible. Maybe you should think about why that is.
Ben, you’re being a complete asshole.
There is no defending that action. The woman was okay with the photographer taking her pictures (she probably entered into a contract.) She was not okay with some random guy – who she’d never met before – running up and videotaping her butt.
That’s it. Period. End of argument. The fact that you have to keep on trying to a) defend the position which people’ve explained repeatedly to you is skeevy and b) go elsewhere to try to get some validation on your position is ridiculous, and only serves to make you look like an asshole.
Stop.
Re auditory issues: what Daisy Cutter said, and Happiestsadist said, and that other ass said. I have similar symptoms: background noise, especially other voices, interferes with speech just enough that I can’t make out the specific words, or only grasp them after a few seconds’ delay. The speech TONE comes across just fine – if y’all know that famous guitar solo in “Do You Feel Like We Do” (just looked it up), that’s what speech sounds like to me almost all the time.
youtube link
If I tweak the volume of a song just right, I can even turn the effect on or off by looking at the lyrics on a page. Open eyes, see text, vocal words disappear. Close eyes, vocal words come back. Sometimes I close my eyes when listening to a classroom lecture to make sure I get it right, because looking at the slides makes the spoken words vanish. Still, I never realized anything was strange until college. (Audiobooks while driving – NOT AN OPTION for me.)
There IS an auditory discrimination test in the full, two-day panel of learning disability tests I took, via a special learning-disability testing clinic. (Here in Texas, you have to be tested and certified as learning-disabled, at some few hundred dollars’ expense, before you’re eligible for accommodations in college.) It consists of picking out words in a recording with gradually increasing background babble.
Most doctors and counselors don’t know anything about auditory discrimination, so while I agree with Alexandratos that it takes specialist consultation to know for sure, that level of care might be hard to come by – so I recommend the book my counselors gave me, “A Mind at a Time” by Mel Levine. It describes a very broad range of specific learning and processing difficulties and how they present in actual cases, along with common-sense simple adaptations to help overcome them. I don’t have my copy with me or I’d cite the relevant section. (It was also very interesting to identify areas where my mind works BETTER than average, which gives confidence and suggests best study strategies for an individual.)
First breakup (and only, but let’s not go there) : in high school, day before Valentine’s. On the 14th, I went out with my best friend. All the smoochy couples in all the coffee shops and bars depressed me, so we took a walk. A long, long walk, in the freezing cold. And I talked about that ex all evening. If I ever needed proof she was my bestest friend, I think her frostbitten fingers were more than enough.
Happiestsadist:
It’s like Kazim said:
Ben, you’re pathetic. Get the fuck over yourself.
Hugs and best wishes, Katherine.
She in the last sentence is the friend, not the ex.
…Now I’m getting an Internet crush on Nutmeg.
that much is certainly correct.
?
Same video I saw? The videographer was quite obviously focusing on her butt, and only her butt, for a really long time…and then returned to it after the altercation!
The new 7 dwarves:
Creepi, Sleazi, Skeevi, Pervi, Harassi, Benji, and Dudebro.
Sorry, I just had to see that again.
Ptyrexx:
Ah! So that’s what it is. I blamed it on hearing loss in my right ear from shooting firearms from a young age.
My wife hates it when I ask her to repeat stuff. She’s getting used to the delay in my responses, though, so I think she’s adjusting.
I admit, I laughed.
First Breakup:
I was a freshman in college. She was a senior in high school. We had been going out for over a year. This is the girl who, among other things, got me to go see Petra, and Stryper. She dumped me during Christmas break. Because I had not been saved, and was not interested in being saved, and her minister told her that, by being with me, she was putting her relationship with me above her relationship with Jesus.
And that was my only breakup.
Met Wife a year later and we’ve been together ever since.
Damn, I really am boring.
Chas @ #165: Oh god, I cackled there.
Kristinc, good luck with the auditory issues. I agree with the suggestion of ASD. I have an ASD, and I have auditory issues up the wazoo. Like, to the extent that I’ve been asked in seriousness if I have a hearing problem (hearing’s fine, processing isn’t). Speaking as someone with an ASD-induced auditory issue, I think it is important to remember that the issue is with the processing. Try to double-up on things, such as by facing the kid and enunciating clearly.
I think a major part of it is that I wasn’t diagnosed with my ASD until I was 19, so I didn’t get any help growing up. Not to say that my problems weren’t noticed when I was young – the shrink my parents took me to told them that as (1) I got good grades in school and (2) I was female, then I couldn’t have an ASD. Because a GREAT thing to tell parents who are beside themselves dealing with an 8-year-old who routinely melts down, gets kicked out of Brownie Scouts, doesn’t get the point of wearing clothing in hot weather, flat-out refuses to memorize her times tables, and thinks that getting up and leaving the classroom during instruction time is appropriate is that she isn’t getting enough discipline. Shrink admitted that a boy with the exact same symptoms would have been diagnosed, but OOPS GIRLS DON’T GET ASD! Your daughter is just willful or some shit and needs to be punished for acting out!
*deep breath* Sorry about the rant there.
Ben, fuck off. You are wrong.
Esteleth:
Dear fucking GAWD, do I want to punch Simon Baron-Cohen and anybody else who blithers on about a “male brain.”
For what it’s worth, my hearing’s also been tested, and it’s approximately twice as good as human hearing should be, especially for high-pitched noises. I can hear fluorescent lights, projectors, computer monitors, rat feet on upholstery… Once I freaked out and pulled my car over because I could hear a strange ticking noise that nobody else in the car could detect. It turned out to be the (mechanical) odometer clicking over because it had just broken. It’s actually really annoying… I wear earplugs routinely in movie theaters.
So yeah… hearing loss has little to do with it, though hearing loss CAN also cause loss of auditory discrimination or verbal comprehension, particularly in the higher registers.
My mind read that wrong and conjured up an image of Dr. Borat
Like I said in the last thread, I don’t think this disposes of the question. The blog post you linked about Boots also said:
While it may well be the case that he had no direct sexual motive of his own, it sounds to me like he intentionally exploited her image to get attention from others, knowing that it would be sexually appealing to some viewers. That isn’t any less exploitative.
Again, I think it’s important here to separate the legal issue from the ethical one. Whether it should be legal to photograph people in public places without their consent is an important question, and one that certainly doesn’t have a simple answer; the applicable law varies by jurisdiction.
But observing that a practice is legal, or even arguing that it should be legal on the ground of civil liberties, is not the same thing as arguing that every instance of that practice is morally defensible, worthwhile, or a good idea. Legality and morality are not the same thing. (By way of example, I would defend Fred Phelps’ constitutional right to freedom of speech; that obviously doesn’t imply that I think Fred Phelps’ behaviour or opinions are anything other than grossly abhorrent. I think people should have a right to freedom of religion, but that doesn’t stop me arguing that the beliefs and practices of many religious sects are morally and intellectually unsound. And so on. One can acknowledge that someone has a legal right to do something, while still disagreeing on moral grounds with the way in which they choose to exercise that right.)
In this case, while it may be that the videographer was legally free to do as he did, his particular action and motives seem to me to have been exploitative and morally unjustified. From the information you’ve provided, it’s apparent that his motivation was to draw more attention to himself and his own work, and that he had no qualms about exploiting a video of the young woman in question without her permission in order to achieve that goal.
Honestly, I understand that you agree with and admire Miller in general, but I don’t think that’s a good reason for defending him on an occasion when he’s clearly got something very wrong.
@ Happiestsadist, thanks for elaborating. For me personally, I would put things like reader or vintage clothing fan as less a part of my identity than something like feminism or atheism. I can see, though, that all these things together, large and small, make up who I am.
I realize I am privileged in the sense of my sexual preferences, as I am heterosexual, married, and monogamous. It’s very interesting to hear from others with different experiences, and I very much appreciate your responses.
One thing I do like about here is that you seemingly can just ask “Hey I don’t get this because of my psychology, could someone fill me in” in terms of ASD, ADD, Dyslexia, or being unprivledged.
Just saying.
@Esteleth:
I had the reverse in my case. My sixth grade teacher tried to get me put on Ritalin because I was acting out in class. She dragged my parents to a meeting, flat out told them “your son has ADD, here’s a checklist.” They looked on the list and saw that not only did I not have ADD, but that my father and mother probably did. Upon questioning the teacher they realized the problem wasn’t that I had ADD, but that I was bored – cause the classwork was way too easy for me, and since I finished ahead of the rest of the students, I had nothing to do for the 15-20 minutes til the end of the designated “classwork” time – because she refused to let me read a book.
Hey, Benjamin, your friend manages victim-blaming 101, has he signed up for the advanced class?
auditory processing again: I forgot to mention, I suspect (with little or no proof) that auditory discrimination could be improved somewhat with gentle, supportive practice. Other kinds of discrimination improve with familiarity, practice, and naming – different kinds of yarn, chess patterns, breeds of dog, sports plays. Those of us with rats can tell whether a photograph is of a rat or mouse (I betcha) while most of the Internet thinks they’re all “hampsters”.
While I’ve been studying important rock music this past couple of weeks, I noticed that *after* I’ve studied the lyrics to a song, then a few listens later I can understand them IN the song, without the visual cue. It takes about three repetitions, and has to be refreshed by regular listening, unlike my memory for visual, kinesthetic or dramatic material. (I now have “Sympathy for the Devil” on a playlist.)
My First Breakup:
I was 15, she was 14, we had known each other for a few years at church and decided we were “going out” at a youth group trip to Carowinds. I had never kissed a girl before and I still cringe when I remember how bad I was at it during the van ride back home.
Anyway, a few weeks later we had a youth group trip to Florida. Things were going great the first couple of days, but I think my sister might have sabotaged me or something because all of a sudden she decided I wasn’t mature enough for her. During the trip it wasn’t so much that we broke up, but rather she just started ignoring me.
Unfortunately my mother was a chaperone on this trip and she kept bugging me about what was going on, and at that point in my life I had figured out that I’m not comfortable talking to my parents about relationship stuff.
The next day I thought I had an opportunity to ride in on my faithful steed to save my first relationship: she got stung by a jellyfish, and I was going to put my pee on that sting. Alas, not even a fresh cup of urine was enough to compensate for my lack of maturity.
Oddly, once I realized it was over I didn’t really feel the need to try to get back together with her or anything. I ran into her a few times over the years and we both were able to look back and laugh at how young and dumb we were; I even got her phone number and we were going to do a tryout date, but she’s way into cars now and I don’t drive an acceptable make of car (it’s a Honda).
It isn’t just Baron-Cohen, Daisy. Until about 15 years ago, only nuts and quacks believed that ASDs could occur in girls. Male-only was the mainstream view.
This is due to the fact that there is a difference between how ASD is commonly manifested – but again, those are tendencies not hard-and-fast rules. So many girls on the spectrum weren’t diagnosed because they weren’t exhibiting the “classical” (read: male) symptoms.
Then someone or another decided to actually study girls and women who had been diagnosed with everything from sociopathy to schizophrenia to mental retardation, unspecified, and concluded that they actually were on the autistic spectrum.
And now that I think about it, her reasoning for not letting me read a book completely didn’t work along with her diagnosis of my having ADD. She wouldn’t let me read because she thought I wouldn’t put it down when classwork period was over…
(Katherine @145 has the link…)
This is undoubtedly aimed at same-sex parents looking to adopt, but its effect will likely be bigger than that based on the broad wording – the agencies can deny adoption to any potential parent they don’t agree with “based on religious beliefs.” So along with same-sex couples, they can include atheists, single parents, and really anyone who doesn’t fit their narrow guidelines can be denied the opportunity to adopt.
Esteleth:
Just like heart disease. Because, of course, men are the standard, women the deviation.
I sympathize. *hugs* Anxiety is very hard to deal with.
All I can say, from experience, is that it usually turns out to be less bad than you think it is.
Oops. Rereading my sentence “I realize I am privileged in the sense of my sexual preferences, as I am heterosexual, married, and monogamous,” I do in fact realize that none of those things are mutually exclusive with kinkiness. I should have had non-kinky (unkinky?) listed specifically, since that’s what we’re discussing at the moment.
Something similar happened to me, Katherine.
My third grade teacher decided that I had ADD/ADHD, due to my acting out in class, blatantly ignoring the lesson, and being a bouncy ball of nerves. After a particularly striking incident, she had enough to give the principal an ultimatum that I be evaluated for ADD/ADHD and given Ritalin, removed from her classroom (probably to be shunted to special ed), or be made to understand that I must not do such things. That was when the trip to the shrink happened. Fortunately, he (I don’t actually remember the shrink, but I’m guessing male) recognized that I didn’t have ADD/ADHD and so I skipped having to go on Ritalin (which has been documented as doing Bad Things to people on the spectrum), but issued his “not ASD, she’s a girl” ruling.
Oh, and I was acting out because I showed up for class one day having answered all of the questions at the end of each chapter in the science book. Correctly. I was scolded for this because I made the other students feel stupid (this happens to smart kids a lot). It also meant that I didn’t need to listen to the lessons – I had memorized the fucking textbook. However, I was expected to sit quietly and listen, even if I was bored out of my mind. I couldn’t even work on homework for other subjects (I was top of the class in some subjects, flunking in others).
Crommunist alert, more must-read material IMHO:
Through the Hating Glass
(yes, I had to look because of Crommunist + awesome title)
Indeed. The stereotype seems to be heavily gendered, to the point that girls and women with autism spectrum disorders get ignored.
It worked in the other direction too: some of my teachers and classmates in school assumed I was autistic, because people have learned through popular culture to assume “geeky, intelligent-seeming boy who has extreme problems with social interaction = autism”. It fits the stereotype. (In fact I’m not autistic. I have anxiety disorder, OCD and unpredictable mood swings, but not autism.)
Eskeptical:
I think the usual term is “vanilla” ? Is that inoffensive enough, everybody?
My mum always says that if I’d been younger, with ADHD being a “fashionable”* diagnosis for difficult students, I would probably have been at least evaluated for it.
I would sit under the table, fool around, not listen…
I was simply bored.
Got me into trouble again in highschool with my English-teacher. He could have accepted my missbehaviour and that I simply refused to do part of the homework hadn’t I been the best student in the class.
He hated me, even years later.
*I don’t deny it exists, I know it does and it needs treatment.
Vanilla is the most delicious of flavours.
What? I am inexplicably hungry again after a snack just a little bit ago.
Why do people like this go into education?
I love vanilla.
I am, generally speaking, uncomfortable with staging this as binaries. I’d rather see it as a continuum.
I will challenge this statement with “mint chocolate.”
Incidentally, my autocorrect got all pissy over “flavours.” Apple is Anglophobic!
I think, for the same reason sadistic jerks become cops or go into the military, or misogynists become OB/GYNs… so they can have power over a ready-made pool of victims.
Mint chocolate is awesome, as is, as I have stated, lavender/peach and black pepper/grapefruit, but I always find myself coming back to vanilla stuff. Which, I suppose, is ironic.
…And I should have added, or pedophiles become sports coaches. I love sports, but I’m not above acknowledging the problem.
Aaaaand, why evangelicals run charities.
My first breakup was when I was almost 13, the summer between 5th and 6th grades. The only reason I even think of it as serious enough to call a breakup (the relationship certainly wasn’t long, serious or deep) is because the boy involved, only a year older, went full-on mini-stalker on me. He harassed me at school, kept appearing at my door at home, tried to run me over on his bike, and played through the full scale of wooing and professing his love to eventually screaming “bitch” at me, in a way that still disturbs me for how familiar he seemed with the whole process — he had learned it from someone.
Four years later, he turned up at the alternative high school I went to and when he realized he recognized me he threatened to throw me through a window. That time when my mom told the school, the school responded by calling the cops and that was the end of that.
Dude is still out there somewhere, presumably still trying to be romantically involved with women. *shudder*
Also, I like vanilla mixed with dried apricots and chocolate sauce.
Chocolate and vanilla swirled together with whole or chunks of raspberries. :D :D :D
Ron Paul
Power.
You know, small people with limited rights.
He always went after kids where he thought the parents would rather side with the teacher than their child. He made a missjudgement with me.
can’t…stop…giggling
I heard of an OB/GYN who berated a patient of his who was 8 months along with a pregnancy that had already manifested pre-eclampsia and placenta previa for calling him at 5 pm on a workday (he was on his way out of the office) because she was bleeding heavily. Like, berated her, yelled at her, called her a horrid bitch, told her that her husband was planning on leaving her, that her baby would probably be retarded, etc etc etc.
She went to hospital anyway. Doc ignored the attending at the hospital calling him, so the other doc had to perform the emergency c-section that she needed because the placenta was fragmenting and the fetus was in distress.
He was then horribly offended when she never saw him again and told everyone she knew about what he’d said. She was damaging his reputation and business!
Doc ignored the attending at the hospital calling him, so the other doc had to perform the emergency c-section that she needed because the placenta was fragmenting and the fetus was in distress.
Given the way he was behaving, probably just as well: he might have screwed it up and it sounds like the attending at the hospital did the right thing. Has the patient considered a discussion with the hospital patient advocate, writing a complaint, or escalating up to lawsuit?
Pteryxx/Giliell: I probably should have put in a “/rhetorical” tag.
Giliell: Agree on the continuum thing, especially as sexual mores change over time. In the Victorian age, oral sex was considered perverse and shameful and, therefore, highly daring in pornography. Now it’s considered “vanilla.”
Vanilla bean has a distinctive and delightful flavor that should not be confused with the flavorlessness of white ice cream in a square box from the supermarket. Nor should non-kinky consensual sex acts be dismissed as boring and unimaginative per se. It’s all about what happens in your brain.
As for flavor combinations, I love chocolate with hot pepper, especially chipotle.
Esteleth: I have heard a lot of disturbing stories about ob/gyns, especially but not exclusively in “the good old days,” some of which would require a trigger warning. (I feel the need to add here that I’ve had some extremely professional, capable, and empathetic ones.)
Dianne, this incident was nearly 60 years ago. She – and her husband – did kick up a fuss, and the end result is that the hospital revoked Dr. Asshole’s privileges. That’s about all that they were able to accomplish.
You’re probably right that he would have fucked up the c-section (or not performed it at all, leaving her to probably hemorrhage).
I have discovered that irregardless is in computer dictionaries…and in autocorrect on my phone. This must not…no
…and pecans!
–
Leaving to the side the questions of the legality and skeeviness of non-consensually photographing someone for salacious purposes (even if the lust involved wasn’t his, he plainly intended to play to the prurient interests of his intended viewership) and personal profit (meaning, his own exposure/fame/infamy/notoriety), how is it that this guy could essentially publish it without her consent, in the form of a written release? In [Organisation] lots of people take lots of pictures of…lots of people, all the time; but if it comes to publishing in any way, no release = no publication. Is [Organisation] just being cautious beyond-the-call?
–
Re grade school: I hated it. Boring and terrifying at the same time. I finished the work early and read most of the time in class, but really, really hated recess, gym, and all the other times where peer interaction was unavoidable. I still get frightened when I walk into a school-this is why my partner takes my daughter to school. I’m still amazed that the kid doesn’t appear to fear her peers. She even seems to like them. Amazing what recessive genes can do for you.
I love my OB/Gyn
He was the first male one I had, and it was more or less coincidence (he works with my midwives and since I couldn’t have my regular OB/Gyn, well I had little choice)
I know there are many women who reject him for having a muslim name (actually he’s from the former USSR but has been living here for ages. His son was my OB/Gyn at the university hospital. I was always expecting little “love to mum” notes at the end of my medical letters), but he’s one of the most caring medical professionals I’ve ever met.
Our first encounter was finished with him giving me his card and telling me that I should call whenever I needed to, not matter if it were easter, pentecoast or whatever else we celebrate.
Cured me from the silly “I prefer a woman OB/Gyn because she’s a woman, too” idea*
This.
I know that all those modern liberated ideas about sex almost made me throw away the love of my life because I was so screwed up in my head that I thought I couldn’t have a fullfilled sex-life if I only ever had one partner.
*I totally understand that there are other reasons for insisting on a female doc.
When do we throw in the proverbial towel and decide that irregardless is, regardless of the combined willpower of every English major (and huge numbers of other educated people), a word? After, many other words are added to the English language: za, doh, qi, zek, zuz, and zugzwang come immediately to mind (Yes, I do play Scrabble. Why do you ask?), so, irregardless of our worthy cringing, why not just give in to the uneducated masses and save ourselves the heartache? And then buy a bottle of Patron and get tequila-faced in sorrow?
Predator Handshake,
I had to stop reading for a minute until I finished laughing. -.-
I’ve been feeling stressed, anxious and tense all week, and I don’t even know why. :-/ I hate it when this happens.
Aww, hang in there, Walton.
Brownies and tea shall be leaking out of your USB shortly.
Nutmeg, when a good friend of mine’s daughter committed suicide I went over and raked their yard. They understood.
Also, their yard really needed raking and I’m a lousy baker.
Never! We will fight them on the beaches, we will fight them on the landing grounds, we will fight them in the woods and in the fields, we will fight them in the hills, we will never surrender, irregardless of…
Damn!
CC @ 87:
Yep. Most of the folks here know I’m bi and not vanilla, however, I keep the details to myself.
SC @ #205: We’ve got plenty of furries in here, any reason it’s weirder/stupider with robots?
Got a letter from the grant committee today, one of my smaller grants got funded! (Now to polish the latest proposal)
Benjamin:
It’s not that simple. In the U.S., if you take a photo of a person and plan to use that photo for commercial purposes, you must have a legal release. If you don’t have one and attempt to use the photo commercially (such as sell it) and get caught, it is, indeed, a criminal act.
I don’t shoot people, even though I find them interesting enough. I find it altogether too awkward (although I don’t have this problem with drawing. Hmmm.) I know several amazing, successful photographers who do specialize in people/public places/urban photography though, and the one thing they aren’t is an utter asswipe like you are, Benjamin. They understand people, they understand that what they do is intrusive with the potential to be upsetting to some people.
As a photographer myself, I wish I had the power to strip you of your gear. You have too much ugly in your head and too little empathy to be invading people with a camera.
Hey, I can relate to that! I can only really get off if my partner is drenched in vanilla essence, then enclosed in a huge mock vanilla pod made of the woven strands from real vanilla pods and filled with vanilla ice-cream, which I then suck out of a small opening through a vanilla straw (like a cheese straw, but vanilla). Then we swap places. Is that what you meant?
Moraji Desai, one-time Prime Minister of India, drank a cup of his own urine every day, and lived to the age of 99.
.
.
.
.
.
Just think how long he might have lived if he hadn’t been such an idiot.
Cured me from the silly “I prefer a woman OB/Gyn because she’s a woman, too” idea*
All other things being equal (which, of course, they never are), I prefer a female OB/gyn for one reason: smaller average hand size.
Sorry! I didn’t mean to imply in any way that I thought it was weird or stupid. Many sexual proclivities and associated things and the names people give them make me giggle, and that was the first time I’d heard of this particular one. Are there other such furry-like phenomena?
I should add that I don’t know anything much about applicable federal or state law governing photography in public places and consent – it’s way outside my field of expertise, and the issue has never arisen for me – nor do I know the laws applicable in the relevant jurisdiction (in this case, New York). I don’t have time to research it right now, as I have to go to class in five minutes, although I’m happy to do so later if need be. So I don’t know whether what the videographer did was legal or not; my comments above proceeded on the assumption that it was, but that might be wrong. But even if it was legal, his actions seem to me to have been unethical and exploitative, and I’d be upset if someone were to do that with my image without my consent.
SC: Ahh, okay. Sorry as well, I’m used to getting laughed at for it. It does have a ridiculous name, I will grant. Also, as a thing, it is full of the creepiest dudes on Earth, who really just are into it because actual women enrage and terrify them, so I’m not very active in any kind of groups. I have met a few awesome ones here and there, though. I don’t know about any other such groups.
Pre-emptive answering of the most asked other questions about it: No, I don’t really like Transformers, yes, I do love Data and yes, I was a big Astro Boy fan as a kid. Related: I’m a Cyborg, But That’s Okay is one of the best movies ever made and it made me weepy and squeeful.
Walton: I like having your legal perspective in this. I will admit, I find it sometimes a herd of teal deer, but you are illustrating pretty well the nuances about the legal issues around it. And thanks for the reiteration of legal versus moral and the latter carrying weight too.
KG: Is it sick and wrong that I think that sounds kind of fun? Not like in a sexy way, just as a sensation-y thing. Aside from the straw, you could likely market it as a spa service and make up some woo-filled stuff about it balancing the something or other and make millions. (Okay, maybe I rant a lot about cosmetic woo.) Also, I am now trying to figure out how to make vanilla straws, and how exactly that would be that different from my biscotti-baking obsession.
dianne
Hmm, yeah, with all things equal, probably. BUt, well, I doubt that there actually exist two OB/Gyns who are completely alike except their gender ;)
++++
Which is the major point, I think.
I remember once taking a picture of about 20 elderly gentlemen in a small Spanish village. They had come to the town square after their siesta and sat on a wall chatting with each other.
Asking them half-ruined the picture, because then they all smiled into the camera, but not asking would have been unthinkable.
To me.
Caine
This! Open about sexuality = healthy. Sharing intimate details = TMI and frequently cringe inducing. I really did not need to read the details about asshole atheist and the banana story in that other thread. (don’t look if you’ve managed to miss it)
On a completely different note, how is the ginormous puzzle coming along? I had no idea they made them that big. That’s probably a good thing though, I would get so obsessive about finishing it I would forget to eat or sleep.
No – and presumably I do too, at some level, or the riff on it wouldn’t have occurred to me! I certainly like vanilla (the flavour) – for me, really good vanilla ice-cream can’t be beat by any other flavour.
The very best ice cream I’ve ever had was rose-lemon, made in a tiny batch (like four servings tiny) by my best friend. Aside from trapping her in my kitchen forever and supplying her with ingredients, I agree, KG. Good vanilla ice cream is the best kind that I’ve seen for purchase.
Tethys:
Oh, I don’t have the ginormous one yet, Imma working on the 3,000 piece Wild Strawberries Orchard. It’s going *slow*. Very, very slow. I need a lot more table to be able to lay pieces out on, I think. And yes, I get obsessive about it, too. :D
I’m currently in the thriving metropolis of Braselton GA running IT support and giving a few presentations at our annual sales meeting.
Tonight we go to Dave and Busters with all the officers and directors and 40 some odd sales force for a “fellowship” excursion.
Please help me.
@224
Reminds me of Spinal Tap, but maybe that’s just the Pod part.
Sit in the corner and get drunk?
Suddenly feel violently ill?
Katherine Lorraine @ 161: why yes, yes I have. Write it up, tell a friendly supervisor (if you have a choice between friendly and unfriendly) before sneding it out. They may be able to help with the wording to put your best foot forward.
The good thing about IT is that you can always manufacture an emergency which will give you an excuse to miss annoying meetings etc. Er, so I’ve heard. Cough.
Ice cream: tonight I tried Heston Blumenthal’s mustard ice cream. Meh. I can imagine it being quite successful accompanying something strongly flavoured, but on its own it was a disappointment. I was hoping for it to have a real mustardy kick, but it’s too mild.
Pteryxx:
*blushes* I have Internet crushes on large portions of the Thread already.
Predator Handshake:
That is the best thing I’ve heard all day.
Thanks for all the first breakup stories. I don’t have one of my own to share with my friend yet, as I’ve only ever gotten to a third date. I’m not entirely certain how I frightened that guy away. I gather that I’m supposed to do something more than just hold a guy’s hand by the third date? Oops.
Not caught up (and probably never will be until either the weekend or someone at TPOW™ complains that banning FTB doesn’t square* with the official diversity policy), but …
Kid #1’s I-don’t-want-to-go-to-sleep-and-I’m-going-to-stop-you-eating-dinner-while-it’s-hot question tonight: “what’s a black hole”?
Space, mass, gravity, force, light, photons, mass of the photon, event horizon, yes there are probably billions, no, no-one (at least from Earth) has fallen into one (but how would we know?), wave-particle duality, the big bang, inflation, the cosmic microwave background.
These were required to answer the question fully and satisfactorily.
I managed to avoid Hawking radiation, information, and entropy. Phew.
My dinner is now cold.
*Pun intended.
changeable moniker
Well, I see it’s getting more interesting when they grow up. Mine are still in the “I need to pee/ I want a drink/ there’s a wolf in the nursery” phase.
It’s also one of the things they never told you about. They told you about the sleepless nights and that you’d be wiping shit off asses. But nobody ever mentioned that for years you wouldn’t get to eat a hot, quiet dinner
changeable moniker, is Kid #1 old enough to enjoy George’s Secret Key to the Universe?
anybody hear Denzel’s comments the Today show and Letterman about atheist and sociopaths?
That’s not accurate. If it were true, there would be no TMZ, no paparazzi, and no supermaket magazines analyzing “who has the best bikini body??” Some famous people do have some rights around their images, but in general, you do not have the right to not be photographed when you’re out in public. There’s no expectation of privacty in a public place.
I just looked that up, djbuster08. That is some seriously ignorant shit. And ignores the high correlation between Right-Wing Authoritarian thinking as well as oh, sex offences against children both being very strongly correlated with religious adherence.
(which is not to suggest that what he did was okay. There’s a big difference between “right” and “legal” and this action crossed the “right” line.)
That book (George’s Secret Key to the Universe) sounds awesome:
Actually, the law is quite clear when it comes to public photography of people for commercial purposes. That’s why you can sue over someone selling your image for profit. It’s rarely worth the time, cost and hassle of suing, however, so most people simply live with the intrusion. A majority of people who have their photo taken in public places are unaware of it, they aren’t celebs or anything, so if someone uses the photo commercially, chances are they will never find out. It’s a murky mess in that regard, granted. Ethically, it’s flat out wrong.
We’re sticking with Doctor Who, The Impossible Planet. For now. ;)
Oh fuck off, Ben. This is the difference between you and me.
Women don’t get close to me because I’m shy and tend to keep my best qualities hidden for those who look for them. This is unfortunate, but partially ‘my own fault’ for being the way I am.
Women flat out don’t want to be around you because you set off their survival instincts. There’s no other way to put it. You don’t make them feel safe or comfortable. I’m not even a woman, and you make me feel gross and skeevy and probably a bit unsafe, were we in the same physical space.
I’m so done being charitable or merciful to the likes of you.
If anything, it’s creepy fuckwads JUST LIKE YOU who ensure that this is a world where women are very, VERY careful about approaching strange males with possible romantic intentions. Thanks a lot, asshole.
Here you have women, as in those people you want to get close to, telling you why this is creepy and uncomfortable, and so you give us this fucking quote of your stupid friend agreeing with you. Instead of, you know, listening to the women.
Fuck. You.
Benjamin, read Walton @ 175. Then read it again.
He’s trying to help.
I personally have a HUGE problem with ‘you have no right to privacy in public’ and an even bigger problem with ‘cops can record you, but it’s wiretapping to record them’.
So I would support the filmographer’s rights. But it was skeezy to the max.
YES! I finally found that stupid piece of the puzzle!
…
Er, never mind. I’m okay. Really.
And now for something completely different:
Chris Mooney has a new book coming out.
His schtick this time?
Apparently political essentialism.
Furthermore, Benjamin Fucking Geiger, I have a feeling your stupid friend hasn’t seen you pull this same shit, time and time again, making every relationship related discussion about yourself, constantly creeping out and driving off the people here who make the mistake of reaching out to you or trying to help, and possibly worst of fucking all, making a bunch of bullshit suicide threats and implications because you know that no one here wants to see anyone kill themselves, even a sack of crap like you.
That’s the one I’d personally drive a boot up your ass for. Many of us here know people who died that way, and for you to use it as a selfish little fucking plea for pity is beyond repugnant.
And don’t think I can’t recognize what you’re doing with the constant nickname changes. It was one of my favorite games to play back in my IRC trolling days. It’s not as funny here.
Smash His Camera was a pretty good documentary.
@254
I caught that discussion over at WEIT. All I needed to know was that in the end, he advocates “Liberals understanding and compromising with Conservatives” or some such hogwash. No dice Mooney.
Chas:
Oh my. *Wanders off to read*
Now for something positive to wash the shitstink away:
Took the ex and the kid to the sushi/coffee place on the corner again. God they love us there. We’re always getting random stuff ‘on the house’ and little treats for the babby. Today they gave me an order of California rolls for free.
The babby has developed a liking for the imitation crabmeat found within, and I just love how she eats it right off the end of the chopsticks.
And she’s SO POLITE IN PUBLIC PLACES. Can any of you think of any other toddler whose favorite things to do involve sitting down to a nice meal at a public place and saying ‘please’ and ‘thank you’? And it’s not like she’s just ‘behaving’. She actually seems to like acting that way.
I know it probably won’t last, but I love it while it does.
Anyways, today they took a photo of us for their wall. And the babby said ‘Cheeeeese!’ when the camera was pointed at her.
That corner place has gone through a few owners… I’m seriously hoping these people last for a good while. They run a really great place.
Caine – “YES! I finally found that stupid piece of the puzzle! ”
I bet a rat hid it from you.
I think I’ll give them a stupidly big tip next time I’m there just to see what they do.
Thank your lucky stars you never met the Dutch guy I used to work with. He has a pyro addiction and eight-and-a-half fingers.
Aww, that’s pretty adorable, TLC. I’ve never heard of a toddler who was all about nice dinners out aside from me (from what I’ve heard from the parents, I could be bribed into being good for other things with a good restaurant meal). Sounds like a nice restaurant as well. :)
Also, thank you again. And you never seemed like him to me FWIW.
The Sailor:
Nope, can’t blame the rats for this one. :D
Thanks HappiestSadist, Just A Lurker, and anyone else I may have skimmed over.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
TLC, well that’s just adorable. Seriously.
When I was a child I was taught to say please and thank you, but I took it on my own initiative one night when we all went out to dinner at a fancy restaurant (… when I got bored at the table and asked to be excused …) to be the doorman at the restaurant and open the door and welcome other patrons in.
They thought I was cute. I haven’t thought about that for 50 years. Thanks TLC.
The Sailor: D’aaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
@theophonte, that’s a to some extent an MPI-ECHAM vs. HadGEM<version> shootout, rather than definitive proof:
HadGEM folks have been arguing about this for the last ten years. It’s not particularly clear what the answer is.
Hi, Hoarde! Remember me?!?!
*passes out on floor from exhaustion*
Me neither!
WTF, I typed a long comment, submitted it, and it hasn’t posted. I tried reposting it (I copypasta my posts out of habit, due to wonky internet), and got the “you already said that” error.
IDEK.
Hi Illuminata, how ya doing?
Esteleth: Your comment might’ve gotten caught in the spam filter. There’s no notification when that happens; but you can still get duplicate-comment blockage. That exact thing happened to me when I tried to link to “Why I’m Funny”.
I suggest taking out links or suspicious words such as medication names, and attempting to resubmit.
—
…I soooort of solved that problem.
I take the picture, and then ask everyone in it AFTERwards. Then delete if they say no. (I can show them the picture, too.)
—
Yellow Knighting!
Hmpth. Maybe it was the length. Here’s the first part:
My bicycle has a severe case of the sads. And by “sads,” I mean “two flat and dry-rotted tires and a rusted-out chain.” So I took it to a shop after work. They will sell me new tires, inner tubes, and chain, install all of the above, plus tighten and lube everything up for $200.
Which is more than I paid for the bike, but whatever. I deliberately picked the nicest tires in the store (Kevlar tires are now a thing, apparently), so they’ll last and I’ll be increasing the bike’s value. I like. I will then start riding it to work. Woohoo!
In less cheerful news, I had a checkup today. New job, new town, new doc. Doc informed me that my blood pressure, etc. are all good, but ZOMG I have a BMI of 27.5. Doc proceeded to lecture me about this for 10 minutes. Now, I am fucking aware of the fact that I’m carrying 15 or so extra pounds around. I am working on bringing that down – the safe way, which is to say the SLOW way of eating 2,000 calories a day and running on the treadmill for 30 minutes every day. I mentioned this fact, got a fucking HANDWAVE and told that I need to get my weight below 150 like now because family history of diabetes and heart problems and hypertension and Alzheimer’s (?!) ZOMG DEATHFAT.
He then informed me that I have hyperthyroidism (yep, I know) and that this was making me fat (?!), so I needed to go on thyroid-suppressing drugs or maybe get mine removed. At this point, I very calmly informed him that (1) his knowledge of the thyroid/metabolism balance was exactly backwards and (2) my medical records clearly indicated that I’d had a total thyroidectomy 5 years ago, together with a note from my endocrinologist mandating artificially induced hyperthyroidism to suppress thyroid regrowth. His response was to demand if I ever planned on getting pregnant, because if I did I’d probably pass my DEATHFAT onto my poor, innocent baby if I didn’t “learn some self-control.”
I gathered my stuff and stormed out at that point. Jebus.
The thing that bothers me the most? If that’s how he treats someone with a BMI in the “slightly overwieght” range, I fucking DO NOT WANT TO KNOW how he treats his heavier patients. Also, he is fired from being my doctor, effective immediately.
Pteryxx:
The rare times people have been my subjects, I’ve used the same strategy.
“Sex with robots is more common than most people think.” – Spike
@Caine 249: but not a crime, right? I mean, I guess I can see a federal tort, but not a crime. I have to say, this is WAY far outside my usual realm of practice-of-law, but I sure thought I had some idea of what I was talking about. Live and learn, I guess.
and yep, we’re in agreeance here.
Holy fuck, Esteleth, I’m sorry you had to deal with a quack like that. I was talking with a friend the other night, and it turned out we both had similar reactions to a medication: a blood pressure spike. Funny thing, the doctor scolded her about needing to lose weight, and mine mentioned that it was a possible side effect of the drug and we’d have to watch it. Just guess which one of us is fat.
Pteryxx, Caine: That would scare the fuck out of me (likely, more so if you were dudes), but it does seem the most reasonable and workable solution for the non-traumatized.
Giliell:
Yah, if I’d been the same fractious, distracted 2nd-grader 10 years later than I actually was, I’d’a probably been medicated to the gills… instead of being skipped up to 3rd grade mid-year, which is what actually happened.
I absolutely get the importance of diagnosing and treating this condition… but I’ve never been able to stop feeling like I dodged a bullet.
***
KG (@219):
WIN!!11!
***
Happiestsadist:
Any reason something has to be weird or stupid in order to be surprising or amusing? I didn’t detect any criticism or meanspiritedness in SC’s comment, nor can I recall any kink-unfriendliness in her commenting history. Rather the opposite, IIRC.
***
Benjamin:
First rule of holes… jus’ sayin’….
***
Katherine:
Hugs of whatever flavor you need. I can think of a few things that would be in the “must report” category in my business, and none of them fun… but in every case, the reporting is better than not. Here’s hoping your bosses recognize the value they have in you.
Also, is your USB compatible with homemade curried butternut squash soup? I know it’s not brownies, but… ;^)
***
All:
The conversation about whether/how kink is orientational has been fascinating. <ProudDad>As I may have mentioned a few dozen times before, my daughter is a cofounder and editor of the (award-winning!) LGBT student magazine Q at Yale</ProudDad>, and IIRC the staff had a conversation, in the process of trying to clearly understand the scope of their audience, about whether straight/cis kinksters fall under the umbrella term queer. I’m not sure what they finally decided, but I’m curious what y’all think: Straight/cis kinky Pharynguloids, do y’all think of yourselves as queer folk? Enquiring minds want to know!
At least one social conservative thinks that at least one family should have used a contraceptive.
Sometimes I wish I was amazed that Rachel Maddow receives the scorn she does from part of the population.
Is that Bob Newhart I am seeing in this video?
As I explained later downthread, Bill Dauphin, I’m used to frostier/meaner receptions.
Honestly? I think the use of the “queer” label by straight and cis people is pretty much completely disgustingly unacceptable and appropriative. But then, I am neither of those descriptors myself. Kink definitely has potential as a means of defying a heteronormative and cissupremacist culture through attacking some of the assumptions underlying, but I think it’s inappropriate to deem it by itself a radical act.
My relation to the label queer is probably close to the relation of a decent male ally to the label feminist, if that makes sense. I think I fall under the umbrella of what the term describes but I hesitate to claim the label for myself because as a gender-appearance-conforming, cis straight woman it feels like not a fight in which I do the heavy lifting, and I don’t want to step on toes.
Benjamin “Athier Than Ever” Geiger,
It must be horrible for you to see someone being hatefully obsessed over something and having that person make you feel uncomfortable.
Can anyone on The Thread imagine what that’s like?
Awesome Jen post handing out the tools to take down the Catholic objections to providing birth control:
https://proxy.freethought.online/blaghag/2012/02/the-catholic-contraception-kerfuffle/
While reiterating that I’m not an expert on this area, I’ve just done some research in an attempt to answer the legal question.
In the United States, it is in some circumstances a tort – the “tort of appropriation” – to appropriate someone’s “name, likeness or identity” without their consent for the purposes of commerce. This is an issue governed by state law, not federal law, so the applicable law varies from state to state. For present purposes, in New York, there is a specific statutory right: NY CLS Civ R § 51 provides that any person whose “name, portrait, picture or voice is used within this state for advertising purposes or for the purposes of trade”, without his or her written consent, has grounds to sue for an injunction and for damages. Many other states have similar statutes.
So if, say, someone were to take your picture without your consent and use it in an advertising campaign to promote their product, you would likely have grounds to sue them. There are various exceptions: this does not apply to news reporting of “newsworthy” events, or to artistic works, for instance.
Obligatory disclaimer: this is not legal advice. This is just some cursory legal research I’ve done in the hope of clarifying the issue a little. If you have any actual legal issues related to photography, consult a lawyer.
(Sources: Goldstein, Ariella, “Privacy from Photography: Is There A Right Not To Be Photographed Under New York State Law?”, 26 Cardozo Arts & Ent LJ 233 (2008); Nussenzweig v. DiCorcia, 11 Misc. 3d 1051A (New York Supreme Court, 2006); Messenger v. Gruner & Jahr Printing & Publishing, 94 N.Y.2d 436 (New York Court of Appeals, 2000); Barnett, Stephen, “The Right to One’s Own Image: Publicity and Privacy Rights in the United States and Spain”, 47 Am. J. Comp. L. 555 (1999))
I don’t personally consider myself ‘queer’.
My personal ‘kink’, which I haven’t indulged in a long time, is being bit and scratched. Hard. Go watch some footage of lions or leopards doing it and you’ll see what I mean.
I can’t, for the life of me, think of a label for it. It’s not really a dominance/submission thing either. I think animal behaviorists call it ‘ritualized aggression’.
I still think that the ritualized aggression is the reason, even though the ex and I have been through betrayal, cheating, drugs, and death/near death*, we never once had a true yelling fight. The worst we’ve ever had is slightly raised voices. Because I knew she was capable of ripping my face off if I didn’t respect her.
Annnyways… I have no real useful opinion on expanding the term ‘Queer’, but I will be following whatever discussion follows with interest.
*depends how you define ‘death’.
Happiestsadist:
I don’t know much about the cultural aspects, but I’d say where kink DOES become radical is versus sex-negative and consent-negative culture (basically, rape culture… is it appropriate to say rape-normative?)
Planning a large event is very stressful, and it’s only just begun. But, if I can pull this off, it’s going to be awesome! I’ll be the best vice president Freethinkers has ever had (at least in my own mind)!
FUCKING BRAINFART. I meant to expand that, and add “But I think the idea of possibly expanding it to include straight kinks is possibly cool.”
There’s also an element of privilege here, I’d of course prefer to know what people who actually consider themselves queer think.
Hrmm… posting lag sucks. I should’a known SC and HS would work it out without my help!
Sisu:
I don’t know how to classify it. All I know is that if you plan to use a photo commercially, you are supposed to have a legal release (there are specific forms to use). If you get caught using a photo without one, you can be forced to remove photos, hand over negatives, be sued and you can have charges pressed against you. The last pretty much never happens, as most people simply want photos removed and possibly recompense. Even celebs will rarely sue, because that keeps you on the front pages longer than a photo.
Unfortunately, it’s really, really easy to get away with being a sleazeball when it comes to photography.
Happiestsadist:
As I said, I rarely shoot people. Personally, I loathe having my photo taken, so I tend to project my own feelings onto others and stay away from people as subjects.
@Walton, thanks very much for the proto-legal advice!
@TLC… I not only bite, I wrestle and pin. Fortunately partner likes this (and engages in pre-emptive licking.) >_>
How the heck do you people read this much this fast with any kind of comprehension? I’m practically stream-of-consciousness here, if I don’t take an hour to construct a studious, careful, 14-page-long Marjanovic-style reply.
Indeed. Having just researched the question (see my #286), it seems, as far as I can tell, that in most states it is a tort (either statutory or common-law, depending on the state) to photograph someone and use their likeness for the purposes of advertising or trade without their consent. But having just looked briefly at the NY case-law, the courts have carved out broad exceptions for news reporting and for artistic works (even where these are produced for profit), so it’s not a particularly clear area of law. To be on the safe side, a photographer is probably better off getting written consent wherever possible.
Caine:
I have a weird personal rule about photography. If they ask permission and I grant it, there’s a caveat: They can photograph me, but it must be like wildlife photography. No asking me to pose and smile, or at least keep it to a bare minimum. They must snap photos of me from interesting angles when I’m totally not expecting it.
It’s the only way for me to get photos of myself where I don’t feel like I look like an idiot. Besides, posing sucks. I don’t hate being photographed, I hate posing for them.
So basically I give them permission to take pictures of me without my permission for the night.
Happiestsadist:
I agree. Gee, privileged people doing more co-opting. What a surprise.
…
My sincere apologies. I’m glad I asked. This will not be forgotten.
Rick Santorum recentely Tweeted the following:
…
No joke.
…
That is all.
We’re losing by a significant margin in this pointless poll. I’m so disappointed.
http://www.news-sentinel.com/section/OPINION
I know we can do better.
Pteryxx @ #288: That would be precisely the aspect that I was thinking about, though I have seen stuff from male subs about the need to dismantle the narrow definition of “man”, and using their kink as a counter to that.
TLC@ #290: Well, I’ve pretty much given my stance on it. It’s actually not that great being part of the alphabet soup, though we do love help from allies*. As to what to call what you like, I personally call it “a hell of a lot of fun”, but that’s me.
*Actual allies
Caine @ #292: As I said, it’s reasonable for people who aren’t fucked up like me. I should not be a baseline for pretty much anything. The fucked up thing? I actually generally am very okay with having my picture taken. Provided people ask. Need a model for a portfolio? If I’m free, I’m good. Want to get one of me while I’m shirtless at Pride? Because you asked, yes, and thank you for offering to obscure my face and have it be all arty and mostly-shouldery. You, creepy guy who just whipped out your camera there and took a pic after I said no? I’m going to get all up in your grill and make you delete it. Which will lead to you threatening me, and me staring your ass down.
*ahem*
A.R: Is it possible, that he’s trying to somehow ‘run with it’ and act like it doesn’t bother him or something?
Because without the lack of self awareness, it kinda sounds scary. Like he’s aware that all he’s doing is spewing vile feces across the face of his country.
TLC:
No need for them, I wasn’t thinking of you, TLC. I understand if people who enjoy kink would like a specific label or set of labels, some of which are already out there and available. I think if people want to create their own, that’s great, not a problem at all. I simply don’t see why co-opting what others have fought long and hard for would be okay. Why adopt queer when it has a specific meaning and you don’t fit that meaning?
If people look to start stuffing pretty much everyone under the queer label, it loses all meaning.
Caine, to Rev. BDC:
Plead explosive diarrhea?
From WEIT:
Uhhhhhhhh.
Esteleth: Jesus. Report that doctor to whatever authority he answers to. And leave a review of him on RateMDs.com. He’s dangerous and I’m not kidding.
Bill Dauphin:
Emphatically no. Appropriation City.
Janine, #280: Not just the odious Cal Thomas but a lot of people in that crowd.
Coincidentally, I was told tonight by a Planned Parenthood worker that she’s had forced-birthers yell “Your mother should have aborted YOU!!” right in her face, like the loving, compassionate xtians they are.
Happiestsadist: Kink definitely has potential to be subversive. And I agree with Pteryxx that negotiation of consent is a powerful tool against rape culture and the assumption of consent by default.
But, just going by demographics, kink probably reinforces traditional gender roles more often than not. People in the U.S. tend to be conservative, and most people don’t have sex to make a statement — they have sex to get off, and we don’t choose what pushes our buttons. I don’t think that’s necessarily wrong, so long as everything is consensual and nobody lands in the hospital or morgue, but by the same token it’s not radical, and being into it doesn’t equal being oppressed. (And I realize I’m preaching to the choir, as it were. :))
TLC: I’d just call that a “biting/scratching kink.”
Pteryxx: I skim as much as I can get away with. But I’m also a very fast typist.
Happiestsadist:
Ooooh, that’s seriously creepy and over the line. The one time I do a fuckton of people shots is at wacipi (powwow) every year. I know most of the people and they know I won’t use any of my photos commercially.
:( Well, fuck. For some reason, I incorrectly interpreted it to be the broader umbrella term under which non-normative sexualities fall, and as such I have generally thought of it as the best way to describe myself because I don’t identify as anything else – being bi-ish, but only ever having been with men, and only having been affected by mild homophobia for a short time at any point in my privileged life (I only just remembered that this happened a couple of days ago, which makes it pretty obvious that it rolled right off me). I mean, I’m attracted to people of several genders, so I don’t feel utterly horrible about the times I’ve identified with the label, but I do not feel good about the fact that I’ve explained my incorrect understanding of it to other people. Fucking privilege. Well, now I know.
Esteleth, I’m so sorry you got stuck with such an asshole. Glad you stood up for yourself.
I would like to extend my goodwishes to Nerd and Redhead, since I have been away for ages now.
I have very little hope for my state today. The committee voting on the UT House bill that seems to be a combination of “Don’t Say Gay” and our-useless-opt-in-abstinence-system-of-sex-ed-gives-the-kids-too-much-information, in their great wisdom, has passed it so it heads to the UT House floor. I’m seriously depressed.
Thanks for all the thoughts regarding the “is kink queer?” question; I confess it took me by surprise the first time I heard anyone consider it. I’d always just assumed that hetero ≠ queer, no matter how non-mainstream things might be in other ways; I just wondered what others thought.
On top of the direct question of how people identify, there’s a logical/linguistic issue, too: How broadly can you expand the scope of any categorical term before it becomes practically meaningless? If queer meant everyone whose sexuality wasn’t strictly limited to what George Carlin called “Good old-fashioned American man-on-top-get-it-over-with-quick” sex, would the word still be at all useful?
Bill, see #302.
Classical Cipher: I dunno, that sounds pretty queer to me. Bi-ish is still not exactly straight, nor is being attracted to multiple genders. And it’s not measured by how much shit you get. (Because I’ve been pretty lucky so far, at that rate, my own membership would lapse!) Bi erasure is a thing, and a lot of it is internalized. Bi (and bi-ish) is not Queer Lite, it’s queer. You’re definitely using the label right for yourself, from that comment.
Ayn Rand’s atheism is rarely discussed in the media and especially among her advocates in the conservative movement and the Christian Right. This blog was set up to help her God fearing fans own up to the true views of their hero.
http://aynrandhatedjesus.blogspot.com/
Whose side are you on G.O.P.
Ayn Rand or Jesus Christ?
IT CANNIOT BE BOTH!
They should have to choose.
Brought to you by the “Society for the Promotion of Division Within the Conservative Movememet”
Thank you for your time.
That was poorly expressed. I’m sorry. Instead of “I don’t identify as anything else,” I mean “I don’t feel comfortable identifying as straight, because I’m not, but neither do I always feel comfortable identifying as bi, just as a personal matter, due to my history and experiences.” And I decided that since I was definitely kinky, I didn’t really need to worry about what counts for me as “being bi,” and could just identify as queer, thereby marking my non-normativeness without laying claim to identities I don’t feel comfortable saying I have. (And I’m noticing a bunch of different lines of fucked-up in this, so this is going to provoke a lot of self-reflection for me.)
What a waste.
Classical Cipher, from what you’ve said before, I’d say you fall under the Queer umbrella, most likely as bi or pansexual. Of course, you’re the only one who can actually make that call.
Stopped reading as soon as I say Ayn Rand.
Jerry Coyne:
Yep, that’s Mooney.
re littlejohn’s poll link at #299:
When the Catholic Church gets an unwanted pregnancy or develops endometriosis… THEN I’d agree that it should be able to refuse medical intervention on its own personal body. Until then I’m voting NO.
—
Ms Daisy Cutter @303:
Well, we also don’t choose to be gay, queer, trans, or whatever race or class we happen to be. We make a statement by existing. A lot more ordinary people would probably be kinky if they could just get past the sex-negativity imposed by culture and religion… and if they aren’t, they still deserve to know it exists.
I might be missing your point though. I mean, most people ARE cis/hetero, and there’s nothing wrong with that, either.
A.R. (and TLC @301):
Damn! To me, it sounds like Santorum has decided to just self-deprecatingly roll with the joke. This is not good: I’m not looking for even the tiniest reasons to feel better about this asshat!
***
Caine (@302):
Jinx! (Re “loses all meaning,” I mean.)
Oh, I complained all right. I work for a medical school’s teaching hospital, which means – hooray – I get interns!
Yeah, I complained. Apparently, I wasn’t the first complainee.
I dunno Caine, Society for the Promotion of Division Within the Conservative Movement gave me a giggle.
Classical Cipher: Whatever term you feel works best here for you is right, aside from the basic meanings of those terms. I don’t know you, but that description there sounds like “queer” is a perfectly reasonable fit in terms of gender-based attraction.
Label-related self-reflection is both necessary and not very fun. I do the same a lot still wrt gender-labels.
Update on the santorum issue: Looks like that Tweet was taken down, no longer visible on his page. Still accessible via the Spreading santorum blog.
My interpretation (which I admit is quite possibly wrong) was that “LGB” covered the “sexuality” side and “TQ” covered the “gender” side – e.g., that “queer” referred to “gender-queer”, e.g., not comforming to gender norms but not necessarily trans.
For example, I’m gay, but I don’t consider myself queer (I’m pretty vanilla “guy” in the culturally typical sense with the exception of liking guys and not gals). I have a friend who is biologically male and (to my knowledge) entirely heterosexual but who pretty substantially blurs gender lines.
I think, for some people, kink can cross over into gender or sexual identity. For example, I could see a sub who response to doms regardless of sex as qualifying. But that’s just me thinking, and it’s not “my” term so it’s not mine to define.
Richard Austin: Genderqueer lives under the trans umbrella, so it’s part of the T. Queer is more of a catchall term for orientation.
Richard:
Seems to me that if queer referred to gender, there would have no need to coin the term gender-queer.
Reading Richard Austin (@322), I’m beginning to imagine a two-dimensional sexuality space, with the Kinsey scale (or some equivalent) as one (x) axis and some sort of vanilla <—> kink scale as the other (y). Or maybe three-dimensional, with gender identitification as the z axis?
Hmm… d’ya suppose my kink is thinking of every fucking thing as a damn graph? ;^)
Well, I’ve generally described myself as bisexual (on the rare occasions that the issue arises), and I’ve never actually had a same-sex relationship; my understanding was that such labels are usually defined according to sexual and romantic attraction, not sexual experience. But perhaps I’m wrong.
Yeah, what Caine said.
HS and Caine:
Good point. As I said, it’s just what I’ve assumed. I doubt I’ve ever told someone they couldn’t call themselves any of those things for any reason, so I’ve never worried too much about specifics.
“Historically”, if I think more about it, I suppose queer just meant “of atypical sex or gender”, since that seems to be how it got applied: anyone who wasn’t normative was “queer”. In that kind of definition, kinks could qualify.
Bill:
I think that would be an idiosyncrasy rather than a kink.
Our squidly overlord gets a name check in the latest post on ManBoobz, FWIW…
Richard:
Back in the day, queer meant male homosexual, particularly male homosexual on the effeminate side, much like lavender meant the same thing in a previous generation, first applied to male homosexuals, then later to lesbians.
Now, Queer is the umbrella over GLBTI. The meaning it has now is the widest one it has had.
I like the idea of a three variable scale, very effective.
Walton, you are correct. Otherwise, every virgin (for whatever definition of the meaningless term) would be lacking an orientation. I was queer when I was a little Happiest, before I was entirely read up on how sex worked.
My opinion re “queer” is that anyone who is LGBT can call themself queer if that is what they want. I like to describe myself as queer, for example, and I’m a more-or-less vanilla lesbian.
“Genderqueer” is a term that, to my understanding, denotes someone who is some variety of trans*, including the androgynous and those who don’t believe in gender. Intersexed people also sometimes identify as genderqueer.
That said: if a straight person I didn’t know called me “queer,” I would be offended. It has a long history as a pejorative.
Caine:
Depends on exactly how excited I get about my graphs, no? <GrinningDuckingRunning>
Caine:
I was going off of memories of footage of men and women marching down streets yelling, “we’re here, we’re queer, get used to it” :)
Hrm, from the Pfft:
Yay! We all win!
<blockquote.I think, for some people, kink can cross over into gender or sexual identity. For example, I could see a sub who response to doms regardless of sex as qualifying.
I identify as straight, have never had a same-sex sexual encounter, and don’t find women in general sexually attractive. However, there’s not a doubt in my mind that I would be more attracted to a sexually dominant woman than to a vanilla man.
I suspect I am an outlier. I know a few other people like me, but not very many.
There’s been a moderate overlap between the kink community and the queer community for a long time, so I can see the confusion being quite reasonable. For instance, Leather Pride started out as a gay subculture, but has now spread much more widely.
My main contact with kink has been via queer culture – the Sydney Fetish Ball, before it became huge and full of tourists; and some smaller private playparty groups that were queer/pansexual in ethos Not Hellfire, that was always very straight/touristy. I’m not knocking the kink-tourists; in many ways I was one myself. But it’s like traveller tourism. Too many of them at a time, and the thing you actually came to check out is swamped.
I thought that the reason paparazzi and such could stay in business was that celebrities, being public persons, are not considered to have the same expectation of privacy in public as private citizens do?
–
Hi, Illuminata! Why the exhaustion? Or is this a “…and boy are my arms tired!” kinda thing?
–
Esteleth: your comment at #334 made me go for a “like” button.
Genderqueer is the junk drawer of gender, more or less. I say this with all the affection of someone who has had to explain how I am, an agender person, and someone very fluid can all get the same label.
And yeah. Like any reclaimed term, someone not of the group in question addressing someone in it with a reclaimed slur is not going to have the unmitigated goodwill of their target.
Stupid borkquote.
On graphs, Bill, I think it might have to be a four dimensional graph, because in addition to the kinky/vanilla scale there’s the scale of whether people kink specifically to sensation (sadist/masochist) or power differentials, or both.
Pteryxx, #316: What I was saying there is that kink is not inherently radical for reasons for demographics: Most people are straight, an even greater majority is cisgendered, and the U.S. tends to be conservative. These things factor into both desires and activities. Obviously, male doms and female subs are not breaking gender rules, but also, several people mentioned on the TAA thread that many submissive het cis men will “top from the bottom” in ways that are contrary to actual submission.
I don’t disagree that plenty of ordinary people deserve to fulfill whatever kinky desires they may harbor… but fulfillment of those desires is not necessarily radical.
Bill, A.R., and TLC: I’m not finding that quote about the electoral map via Google, and I’m not seeing it on Spreading Santorum’s recent posts. Do any of you have a link, by any chance?
Richard Austin:
Ooh, I totally forgot the monogamy <—> nonmonogamy axis! Four-dimensional space? Sexuality string theory, anyone?
Richard Austin: Anybody can edit Wikipedia, and without even looking I suspect the Talk page is long and more than a bit acrimonious.
(“Pomosexual”? Come ON.)
Moment of hope via Shakes:
Washington state passed its same-sex marriage bill, now awaiting Gov. Gregoire’s signature. One of the two Republicans who voted “yes” on it, Rep. Maureen Walsh, gave a statement before the vote:
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2012/02/someday-by-god-i-wanna-throw-wedding.html
kristinc:
Looks like you and I came up with different “extra” dimensions more or less simultaneously. Even though I started it, I think I’m rapidly approaching the point where this sexual “cosmology” is as opaque to me as cosmological cosmology is!
***
Daze:
My only “source” for the Santorum tweet was it being quoted in this very thread.
So, the good news first: my brother-in-law is a great cook. It’s nice to sit down to dinner with actual folks.
Now, the bad news: I hope you all have noticed that Benji has pulled his usual disappearing act, the same as he always does when called out for his blatantly skeevy, creepy, misogynist behavior.
If his pattern holds true, he will show up again tomorrow or the next day, making innocuous comments about movies or classes or something like that. And people will respond to him as if he’s NOT a sexual predator and a complete asshole, and ask how his classes were, or answer his question about this or that website.
I’d like to ask you all to please stop giving Benji a pass when he’s putting on his polite mask. He’s not a good guy, okay? Maybe someday, with help and therapy, he might be, but at the moment he really isn’t. Please either don’t respond to him, or, if you do respond to him, insist that he explain his sexist, unethical behavior, and don’t let him change the subject. Personally, I wish he’d just leave Pharyngula and go somewhere where other misogynist assholes can appreciate his “I’ll be the guy leering at you in the elevator at 4 a.m.” jokes. He adds nothing and he alienates people. Notice that Jules hasn’t been around a whole lot ever since he sexually harassed her. Seriously, what is it going to take for people to stop giving this misogynist creep a pass for his disgusting behavior?
Ms Daisy:
Yeah, I was being a little silly, sorry. I probably should have added: *throws rainbow confetti in the air*
Ms. Daisy Cutter:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=299372806788275&set=a.109915929067298.5766.108905269168364&type=1&theater
…
Apologies for the messy link, I’m rather inadept at HTML.
Daisy:
This ^. Oh well, I guess there’s nothing like ignoring actual history and going with the all knowing, never-ever wrong wiki.
Sally:
I’ve kept him in the killfile for ages, but that’s hardly a universal thing.
SallyStrange: That’s exactly why I wasn’t going to let him off today. He does it constantly, drives off people who are amazing with his shit, and basically just poops on the floor and blames us for telling him to clean it. I’m glad to see more people calling him on it as well, and not just because of the folks who are on my side here (though that is both relieving and refreshing).
Sally:
I never really noticed it as such, but you’re right. And consider that he allowed his friend to parse HappiestSadist’s first response to him in this episode of TET as “baiting,” rather than in context with the previous episode.
I agree with your suggestions, too. (WTF, he drove Jules away?! And did the harassment extend to outside of Pharyngula, too?)
A.R.: That’s got to be faked. Look at his facial expression. His official Twitter wouldn’t use that pic.
Ben’s in my killfile exactly because I don’t give passes on that garbage. I would love to see him being cut not an ounce of slack.
More people who can fuck off: Sawyer Williamson. Also, this person, whose ugly remark was commented upon here. “Seventeen, ridiculously Catholic, catholic, Pro-Life, and Saint in the making.” Urrrrgggghhhhhh. I really, really hope she grows out of it.
Ms Daisy: yeah, I was beginning to think that. But you never know.
re Ben: frankly, I’m so bad with names, this is the first iteration where I recognized him from a previous round of assholery. I know *I* get sick at the sight of him now, and that’ll color my responses if any, but a lot of random TETizens probably won’t realize who it is even if they did witness one of his previous meltdowns.
For what it’s worth, I’ve now saved thread references to three separate occasions where Ben Geiger’s been an asshole. (Yes, I saved the first two and STILL forgot who it was.)
Hear, hear, Sally.
___
I love ice cream. The best ice cream I ever had was as an undergrad. The chemistry department would have regular liquid nitrogen ice cream parties, with contests for best flavor. Here is the recipe for the best fucking ice cream I ever had:
Country Breakfast Ice Cream
1 gallon whole milk
6 strips fried bacon, chopped
4 tablespoons maple syrup
1/4 cup sugar
1 liter liquid nitrogen
large bowl
wooden spoon
2 pairs thermal gloves
2 pairs safety goggles
2 people
Mix milk, bacon, syrup and sugar in bowl. Stir well. Don gloves and glasses. While one person stirs quickly, the other person pours the nitrogen into the bowl slowly. Whip until semisolid. Enjoy!
__
In random news, my Hippy Uncle™ just messaged me on FB to tell me that some friends of his have opened a “metaphysical store” in the city that I live in. o_O
*bares teeth* I’ll do what I can, Sallystrange.
That hoggling comment was the last straw for me. Benjamin Geiger can fuck right off.
No worries, Sally. He’s been killfiled. I don’t think I could muster the energy to roast him on his outlandish behavior without smashing my monitor, lately his comments have been making me see red. Before I just thought he was annoying.
———————————————
I didn’t think it was possible to be both disappointed and very horny at the same time. J’s son T is sick again, so no meeting up tonight. Like I said, I was disappointed, but eh, I was a virgin for most of my past years, no big deal on waiting.
Or so I thought. The last time my head buzzed with so much sexual energy and X-rated daydreams was a few months ago. *sigh* Yoga before bed, it seems. Aside from writing or reading, that always seems to bring me back down to earth when my mind’s taken the scenic & sexy route. By then I should also be tired enough to go to sleep without much trouble.
Daisy:
He put an unwanted move on her at a meet-up last year. Jules was quite nice about it and communicated with Benjamin privately about the whole thing and wouldn’t have said a word about it publicly. Benjamin brought it up in TET during a rampant whine about wimmins and how nasty they are to him.
Maybe we need a Sexuality Hibert Space. However, describing one’s sexuality may be difficult when there are an infinite number of degrees of freedom.
That sucks. I saw Jules telling him off for it, I saw him whining and pulling the hinted suicide threats, but I had no idea he’d actually driven her away.
As if I needed another reason to dislike the pile of shit.
He has also been a disgusting sexist shit on the TET FB group, and has now been banned from there. Which, of course, he whines about as persecution and all Jules’ fault, when it was actually not her decision, but the group mods. A moderation decision which most of us (90%+) concurred with. And as Jules can attest, he is a sleazy harasser IRL. (Which is why it’s apparently her fault. For not fucking him or something.)
I do wish Jules felt more able to stand up against it. I’d rather have her here than him, that’s for sure.
I wish Jules would come back. I hope she realizes that the support she has here should outweigh the shit the Ben has dumped.
Alethea:
Oh yeah, right. The hell it was, I heard from a lot of people about kicking Benjamin’s ass off PET and not one of them was Jules.
I don’t know Jules one bit, but I think I would most certainly compare her company to Ben’s.
Jules seemed genuinely nice and a decent human being, which is a plus, but to be fair I’d prefer the company of a bison with diarrhea to Ben’s.
If given the choice.
Caine:
How dare she not fuck him!
TLC:
So he threatened suicide to gain sympathy because people were angry with him for driving Jules away? Did he also contact her and threaten to kill himself, too, because she’d rejected him?
Jesus. He’s always pinged my creep-o-meter, but like any other creep, the more I hear about him, the worse it gets. And he’s a professor or at least an instructor. I feel bad for any female students of his, particularly if he decides they’re attractive.
Can people who are still in touch with Jules encourage her to return, if she feels safe to?
*prefer. GODDAMN BRAINFARTS. PREFER.
Hmmm, just got a new computer due to a freak LN2 accident with the other one. I’ll have to get my killfile up and running again for this asshat.
Hi. Long time (if anybody remembers me). Life has been busy so I’m thread bankrupt, but I just wanted to say that I love you all. Seeing you all stand up against Geiger makes me feel better and more confident about some recent stands I have taken in my life (thanks in no small part to seeing you all fight the good fight here).
Reading you all makes me realize there are good people out there and I am so happy you exist. All those arguments you regulars make for the benefit of people reading? They help. I appreciate it so much even though I never have time to contribute.
Thanks for what you do here. I will probably disappear back into lurker/absence as I am crazy-busy, but I’ll be back whenever I can because this is such an awesome place. Hugs to all who want them/need them.
Huh, Ben’s sounding more and more like my rapist ex.
Daisy:
Eh, the suicide routine was going on before the incident with Jules. Benjamin is manipulative and has some real issues when it comes to relationships and sex.
One thing for sure is that he hates other people talking about their romantic or sex lives, thinks that sort of talk shouldn’t go on when he’s not gettin’ any.
…
This is just me here, nothing much to do with Ben… but I didn’t realize that y’all social-type people actually noticed and missed each other when someone up and disappears.
…I should really think that over.
Hey Aladegorrion, good to see you. ♥
I shouldn’t be putting words in Jules’ mouth; as far as I know, she hasn’t explicitly said that Benjamin’s presence here inhibits hers. But I have noticed that although she posts quite a bit on TET, and not so much at Pharyngula. And, like y’all, I’d much rather have her around than Benjamin.
A.R, if you actually attempted to make computer-flavored ice cream, you are my hero.
If you SUCCEEDED, you’re my god.
Pteryxx: I kinda believe in a person’s right to up and disappear sometimes. I do it occasionally too.
I still consider myself relatively new here, I don’t really ‘know’ everyone, though I’m starting to know a few people.
I know Benjamin Geiger though. I remember the incident with Jules sparking off a pretty long fucking Benjamin Geiger pity-party.
I know everyone’s killfiling him, but doesn’t he just change his nick slightly anyways? I think I may try an alternate route.
Yes! In SPITE of repeated requests from Caine and me for him to stop doing that, so that the killfile will continue working. I really don’t want him around at all, ever. He’s a manipulative sexist asshole.
Yes, he nym morphs and has been doing it for a long time now. It’s just one click to plonk his arse again.
Err, I meant to say that Jules posts on PET rather than TET.
Hi Caine! :) How are your rats and giant monster doggies?
What alternate route do you have in mind?
SallyStrange and Caine: Yeah, I’m just sayin… like I told him, I used to play this trick on IRC… used to be a favorite trick of mine. A simple way of frustrating people’s efforts to make me disappear.
I uhh, used to be a bit of a troll. Not here though.
Anyways, I don’t feel like figuring out this killfile thing anyways. I’d rather he just fucked right off at this point. All my mercy for him is gone.
Don’t we want Pharyngula to feel like a safe space? What about new people who aren’t aware of this stupid asshole’s history? Should they be forced to learn what we all already know?
I’ve been one of the ones being talked to directly here. I’ve always tried to see the good side of Ben, and always tried to be patient and explain things calmly to him etc. I remember reading something about the stuff with Jules, but I didn’t realize at all that it affected her any more than just being an annoyance (but I should have, I really really should have). Now that I’m thinking about it, the passes I’ve been giving him for just not quite understanding have been going on for a really, really long time now, longer than one would expect. Even if he is still in a bad place mentally, and is having a lot of trouble seeing how things are outside his bubble of viewpoint, by now I think he would realize that yes, his views are on a kilter and he should tread lightly around subjects that he knows he always somehow ends up on the wrong side of.
Starstuff: Just telling him to fuck off. I think he should be made aware that we, indeed, want him to fuck off. That this isn’t just some fuckup that’ll be forgiven and forgotten, but part of an ongoing pattern.
Aladegorrion:
They’re doing just great, thanks for asking. :) The rats are growing and happy little campers, the monster dogs have been a bit disappointed by the lack of snow this winter, but I’m okay with it. Heh.
IMHO, intentionally morphing to avoid killfile should count similarly to sockpuppeting: i.e. a bannable offense.
Just want to point out, I used to change my moniker regularly. An yesterday SallyStrange changes her in order to incorporate an insult from a rather loathsome fool.
TLC:
By doing so, however, you play directly into what he wants, which is attention and responses. As I said, he’s manipulative. One of the reasons he started up whining about how we like you but don’t like him was that he knew it would garner responses.
Do what you like, I’m in no position to make people do anything, however, I’d much prefer it if he was completely ignored. *shrug*
Janine: Yeah, but as far as I know (and if anyone does know don’t tell me), no one has me killfiled.
I really don’t think he’s changing his nick for the same reasons.
TLC:
Well, I think I can agree with that. I’ve tried to give him the benefit of the doubt every time something like this happens with him. But, I’ve run out of patience for him and his shit.
Anyway…
Has anyone here participated in a SlutWalk before? I’m participating in one here this Saturday.
Caine: Well it seemed to make him disappear for today. Though you may have a point. I will, of course, see what happens.
Janine, I’ve changed mine too. That’s not why Benjamin does it or does it so often. He didn’t start doing that until people started outright announcing they were killfiling him.
Also this:
Truth.
tl;dr me: the benefit of the doubt has finally worn off.
TLC:
That’s just a standard part of his routine. Shows up, acts okay for a bit, then posts something misogynistic or otherwise offensive, stirs up a load of shit, gets a whole lot of people talking to and about him, then leaves. Lather, rinse, repeat.
You never know. When I had a working killfile script, while I did make some announcement that I just killfiled so-an-so, most of the time, I do not say a word.
I just wanted to say that people should be able to play with their moniker as long as the main name is recognizable, even those people who has generated a lot of ill will.
Caine: I see what you mean. This is good information.
Actually, the main reason Jules doesn’t come here much is that she doesn’t have the internet out at her place, and I think most of us know how hard it is to do anything with FTB TET on a smartphone. Can’t imagine Ben’s latest shenanigans would make her feel very welcome though.
On the other hand, I have a certain amount of frustration with the everybody-ignore-him option, which is the same one I have with not feeding the trolls. He posts his usual misogynistic shit, killfile means we don’t see it, it appears to go unchallenged. I’d try to engage with him directly, but at this point, it’s very clear that he is going to make his usual response, which is declaring that we’re all assholes, we all can’t read, andor we all are lying about the shit he regularly pulls. Possibly he’ll also explain that it’s just a handful of us who dislike him, while utterly failing to be self-reflective enough to consider the possibility that maybe it’s not random personal dislike/personality clashes, but widespread anger at shitty behavior.
Classical Cipher:
I understand that, but how many times have we been through the same shit over and over with Benjamin now? What bothers me is that he gets what he wants, every fucking time and he manages to manipulate enough people to get his attention fix.
He hasn’t done anything to merit banning, so we either keep on going around in circles or ignore his ass.
CC @401: Some of us don’t killfile, though. I’m not always around, but I don’t. Those few of us will still see the BS and some will respond; but the responding population will be disproportionately naive responders.
—
meta: I know nested replies suck, but we don’t really have a single format for replying to whatever conversation we’re in amongst TET. There’s name/post number typed by hand because post numbers don’t copy, or link to comment, which gives Pharyngula comment number instead of easily look-uppable post number (and chokes those of us on dial-up). People can search for their nyms when looking for replies, or search for topic mentions when there’s a generally agreed-upon topic word.
Is there an FTB way to have a reply option that ISN’T nested? Something that puts “Replying to [commenter] at [post number]” at the start of one’s comment, while still keeping the linear format?
Something like that might also be handy for killfiling – it’d killfile the quotes from, and replies to, the asshole that some of us don’t want to see.
So how about a hearty hello to Illuminata!
Pteryxx: Never thought to taste the product!Though I suppose it would be a bit metallic. :^)
Hello to Illuminata! Long time, no see!
You’re right. At this point it’s some brick wall shit, and it’s really a waste of time and energy if we’re trying to persuade him, and if we’re not it’s just endless and tedious and gah.
And *hugs* to pteryxx.
Yes, but if someone specifically asked me to stop changing my moniker because they didn’t want to read what I was writing, I would stop. Because that’s what decent human beings do.
I’ve been ignoring Ben. Unfortunately, although I have killfile installed on my new laptop, it doesn’t seem to actually work. I click “kill” and nothing happens. Either way, ignoring him doesn’t seem to work because we lack the critical mass of people who are aware of Benjamin’s horribleness to make it an effective tactic. So, I am going to take Coyote’s approach–direct confrontation whenever he shows up–and treat it as an experiment. We’ll see what happens. At least this will be something different.
…also, I’d loooove to have a blockquote-reply option. I’ve typed <blockquote> so many times that my hands think it’s my login.
Pteryxx, if you use Firefox, you can get a nifty text formatting toolbar: http://codefisher.org/format_toolbar/
It’s the cycle of abuse, only played out in an online, group setting.
CC @407:
*blink* Thanks, CC.
(what on earth?)
Caine, thanks, but I just updated Firefox and that formatting toolbar doesn’t work with 10.0. Maybe later?
It was one of those “I LIKE YOU!” hugs, cos I wanted to acknowledge that you said something but I couldn’t think of anything to say except like “Well, okay :)”
My kill doesn’t do anything either, but the hide comment one does work. I just ignore Ben and scroll past his comments. He seems to enjoy annoying people, and I am glad to see that others have the same reaction to him. Namely that they find him obnoxious and manipulative.
—
Sally
No pressure, but how is your blog coming along? I want to read more of your writing.
—
Pteryxx
I miss the tags on SB where I could just copy paste the entire tag. It took so long for me to figure out how to make the current tag choices work.
*blink blink blink*
…Man, you social peeps are WEIRD. ~;>
I’m not a social peep, you silly :)
Pteryxx, hmmm, says it works in 10:
Version 0.1.4.10 Released April 25, 2009 162.8 KB Works with Firefox 2.0 – 10.*
I’m glad your critters are doing well, Caine! I think if my doggy was used to snow she would be disappointed too. As it is, if she was thinking about it, I suspect she likes the lack of precipitation here because I don’t have to dry all her feet off. :)
On Ben Geiger:
Ugh. I’m on alert now. Too many free passes indeed.
On random shit:
I can’t get The Bangles’ version of “Hazy Shade of Winter” out of my head. I go through one chorus, then it repeats with the harmony line a third above, and then it repeats with a bass harmony vocal line. Oh, lord. Somebody please give me another ear worm.
We are all weird.
:-)
The blog is coming along slowly. Moving and stuff. You know. Also there’s this adorable baby who keeps distracting me…
Caine: The reviewers all say “too bad it no longer works” “sad that nobody is maintaining it”. I tried to install it and Firefox said it was incompatible…
Sally & Tethys, when you right click on greasemonkey, is FtB killfile have a checkmark? Also, I had to uncheck ‘killfile’ before my FtB killfile would work.
Pteryxx:
Well, shit. I know there’s another text format add on, Ichthyic uses it, it uses a right click menu rather than a toolbar. I can’t remember the effing name of it…I’ll dig around a bit, see if I can find it.
Aladegorrion:
Yes, the monster dogs don’t much care for the feet cleaning treatment when it’s mud season around here. :D
Yes. Break the cycle. I didn’t want to announce it, but that’s what I was thinking.
Sally:
It had better not distract you from my upcoming party. Or it will end up roasted and served as the main course. I will put the lotion on its skin because I am too tired to give it the hose again.
Fake Hubby, sing Private Dancer as loudly as you can.
No Josh, I’m pretty sure I can make it to the party, as long as Audley isn’t leaving Friday… I should email her about that. But yeah. It’s a busy weekend in my new household but I think we can make it work.
I don’t think you want me to do that.
Fake Wife: LOL! Obviously I haven’t told you about Teh Awesomez Tina Turner Impression I do. It won’t help, believe me. I’ll just start going, “You know. Every now and then. I think you might like to hear. Something from us. Nice. And easy.”
Sally: Audley and Mr. Darkheart are coming on Saturday.
I’m not sure the species that thrive in my head would be able to take root in yours.
I’ve spent two days with “One Tin Soldier” going ’round and ’round. It’s by some outfit called Coven, who then vanished, and it was the theme song from the 1971 (I think) movie Billy Jack. I only made it 35 minutes into the movie, but the song remains.
Having spent some years in music school, and thus having special training, I am exceptionally prone to really, really persistent earworms. They last days. I fall asleep with them, wake up, and they are still there.
Wait…wait…what’s that I hear? “Hazy Shade Of Winter?” Ah, but it’s the Simon & Garfunkel version.
Thanks. That’s a distinct improvement.
I kind of guessed that you would have a thing for Tina Turner.
There is a gay bar in the west suburbs of Chicago called Nut Bush City Limits. Thought you would like to know that.
I loved that song, and the footage of the wild horses that went with it in that movie. That shit was awesome. It just went together. The last time I saw music and footage of animals go together like that, it was a pairing of lion/hyena footage and “I want it all” by Queen, on Youtube. I’m still pissed it’s gone now.
Arggh. I have attempted to post the link to the killfile on the wiki twice and it keeps getting sucked into an internet black hole.
Josh
Walk Like an Egyptian?
Well, it’s a matter of taste, but I prefer The Bangles’ faster, more pop-y version. I’m a sucker for slick pop, though, and for harmony. I recall an interview with them from I can’t remember when where one of them (Susanna Hoffs maybe?) described their approach to vocals as a “harmonic layer cake” with a focus on getting as many vocal lines in as possible. Yeah, it can be sickeningly sweet, but when thick harmony is done well it sounds to my ear the way pecan pie tastes to my mouth. . .overwhelming and almost too much, but so, so good.
Obviously this is not helping me get rid of the wretched ear worm. I have had enough auditory pecan pie, thank you.
Never seen the movie, but I like the song. (I can even play it on the piano! Which isn’t especially impressive, admittedly, given that the chord pattern of the verse (though not the chorus) is identical to that of Pachelbel’s Canon.)
Coven, for a while, they actually were a Satanic band.
I fuckin’ love One Tin Soldier.
feralboy12:
I’ve had one recently (Circle of Light by Walela) that has now lasted 3 weeks and shows no sign of stopping.
Janine!–
Oh lord, I’m dying here. Fade to Golden Girls flashback, narrated by Sophia Petrillo. . .
Picture it-New Orleans, 1992. A young SpokesGay took his first trip to the Big Easy with his friends. After wandering about the streets drunk and burping up Muffaletta sandwich, they stumbled into a gay bar—the Heartbreak Cafe.
Some faggot puts “Nutbush” on the jukebox. Tina wails it out, and the bartender substitutes his own lyrics:
“NO PUSSY for sale! Get drunk, no bail!”
Re: hazy shade of winter
I only vaguely remember the Bangles’ version, so that worm, if it took up residence, would be quickly eaten by Simon & Garfunkel.
Yeah, Billy Jack starts out with a nice, idealistic theme song and some footage of wild horses. Then it turns into a student film with bad acting, fake blood that looks like orange marmalade, and, worst of all, 15 minutes or more of amateurish folk singing. That stuff really hurt my overtrained ears, and I swear it took up half of that 35 minutes.
@ Ms. Daisy Cutter 61
Warning: Fire story
As a very young buck, I was fascinated by chemistry and pyrotechnics. A common enough tale I guess, but I of course had to get all competitive about it and experiment with newer and more dangerous combinations than the ubiquitous brake fluid.
I managed to get my hands on some model aircraft fuel. The big attraction was that it was competition fuel, so that in addition to methanol (and castor oil) it also contained nitro-methane.
For some reason it did not explode spontaneously so I added a (too short) fuse and tried to light it. As I bent over it, it exploded into my face.
I ran around smoking and leaped into the pool to douse the searing pain. I was seriously burned and covered in blisters and went into shock, shaking so hard that I had to be held down. I was fortunate that I (mainly) only had second degree burns. The blisters on my eyelids attested further to my good luck.
Over the coming weeks and months I slowly transformed back from looking like a monster as my hair and skin recovered.
(There is another whole dreadful chapter to this story, that occurred to me in my late twenties, but I must first steel myself to go into those details.)
……………………end of fire story …………………………
Sorry, I did not notice this earlier and it was certainly not what I meant. Rather, that in spite of the rigors, hardships and dangers that he had to face each day as a soldier, he could still find the time to write and produce plays and poems at such an exceptional level.
Caine
I have no idea where to look to see if there is/is not a check in the greasemonkey script.
I apparently can’t even post a link to the killfile on the wiki.
—
I like one tin soldier, it’s now playing in my head.
*Listen children to my story, that was written long ago. ‘Bout the people of the mountain and the valley folk below. On the mountain…*
The Outlaw Billy Jack, as far as movies go, was a weird one. I liked it, despite its flaws. I mean come on, the guy does kick some ass.
That said, it does have some flaws. Some of the ‘sad’ parts are kinda badly acted, and while they should definitely have some impact, the overwrought acting and musical score kind of diminish the impact a bit.
But that part where he kicks that fat grinning bastard in the face, and there’s nothing he can do about it… you have to love that part.
Another classic earworm: Puff the Magic Dragon
(Contrary to popular belief, the song is not, in fact, about marijuana. As Peter Yarrow has been painstakingly explaining to people for the last few decades, it’s an innocent children’s song.)
TLC, while this is not a movie, it is a music video; the animals do play a part of the lyrics.
No Pussy Blues-Grinderman
NSFW!
And a fucking bloody awesome song!
Hahahahahahahahahaha, you said it so much better than I did.
But the parts that work for me, work for me.
When I was in the fifth grade, One Tin Soldier was one of the songs my music teacher ha us sing.
I thought One Tin Soldier was originally recorded by an obscure Canadian group called The Original Caste. (Although the version in the movie was definitely by Coven.)
Oh, no. As I’ve explained to you before (not that I expect you to remember it, just sayin’) that song makes me fairly ache with nostalgia and tear up. Mostly because it’s just Pachelbel’s Canon in D sung in another key. Seriously. . .listen to the chord changes. It’s the same song.
Just want everyone to know, Killdozer did the definitive version of One Tin Soldier.
Walton: Sorry, it wasn’t intended originally to be about Marijuana, but it’s far too ingrained in stoner culture now.
It’s like, a part of our mythology, dude. Like the various legends around ‘420’. And insisting that Jesus was a stoner.
True or not, the association is there for good.
Of course I remember! That was about two years ago, early 2010, when I was ill with tonsillitis and panicking about my Oxford finals. Hang on, I’ll see if I can activate my google-fu and find the link.
There we go.
(Sweet FSM, was that really almost two years ago? Where has the time gone?
And I see Janine was mocking my monarchism then, too.)
Well, if it amuses you Walton, go ahead:) I was only bringing it up as a “hey, that’s mildly interesting” thing, not as an obligation. :))
Oh, agreed. That was humorous. Also, the martial arts scenes were better than David Carradine’s slow motion crap, or some of the newer stuff that looks like dancing, only with more grunting.
But the off-key folk singing, the school where the kids seem to do whatever they want, and it’s groovy…I mean, I get enough of that living in Eugene, Oregon. That’s one problem with living here–all that idealism and high-minded stuff gets annoying after awhile.
There’s often woo attached, too. Still, I love this place. I’m pretty sure.
Sweety, I was mocking monarchism before you were born.
Has anyone else seen this cartoon? it was suggested on Netflix and Partner and I loved it because we are giant children.
To me at least the theme counts as an ear worm
Tethys:
Greasemonkey is required to make the killfile work – there should be a little monkey face on your status bar (lower right), that if you right click, shows what scripts you have, and whether or not you have a checkmark by them.
I don’t understand, there already is one: [redacted, apparently a link to the Pharyngula wiki won’t allow a fucking post through.]
Go to the Pharyngula wiki and search ‘greasemonkey’
feralboy12:
lol, yeah.
I hope I don’t catch any flak for this, but I thought the rape scene was way bad. Not so much the scene itself, but just the way it was dealt with after. No horrible message or anything that I can remember, just the badness of the acting and stuff really kills the impact. Same with the whole part with the miscarriage.
Here is my cartoon theme earworm.
TANK!
But I like the closing theme even better.
Real Folk Blues
TLC:
I don’t know if this will help any, but when rape scenes are realistically portrayed (as in the two rape scenes in Män som hatar kvinnor), they are *extremely* difficult for me to get through.
Badly done scenes are still difficult, but less triggering for me. Of course, we are talking Billy Jack, which was all around bad and rather silly all the way ’round.
Sorry, I just remembered some other asshole who used this phrase on another blog some of you may remember. Apologies.
I’d like to know what others thought though.
Caine: I was thinking more along the lines of ‘implying it in a clever way’ rather than ‘making it more graphic and realistic to ‘up the impact”. But I think I see what you mean.
I didn’t make it to the rape scene in Billy Jack, or the miscarriage. Probably just as well.
I’ve been watching various 60’s and 70’s movies lately, stuff that was sort of a big deal at the time (big enough to warrant a Mad satire) but that seems to have mostly been forgotten. Stuff like Joe (1970, Peter Boyle, Susan Sarandon) and Billy Jack, and something (I forget the name) with Audrey Hepburn, Midnight Cowboy, and soon, Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice.
I’m finding the pace of everything from that era to be painfully slow.
I love harmony, and have recently discovered the Civil Wars. Their voices work so well together.
Tip of my Tongue
Tracks in the Snow
Caine
It says it is enabled, and yet it does not work. *shrug*
I appreciate the help though.
So, if anyone wants a good earworm, particularly one of the whimsically gloomy variety, here’s one of my faves:
The Coral – Grey Harpoon
(Fun fact: The genre tag for this album, which downloaded automatically from somewhere when I ripped this CD, is “Gay”.)
For all who are afflicted:
This is supposed to be the ultimate anti-earworm. Not sure why, but it’s worked for most people I’ve given told to try it.
Oh, I like re-reading old threads. I’m weird in that respect. And I have a particularly good memory for posts.
(And now I really need to go to sleep. Because I’m exhausted, and I don’t know why I stayed up late again despite having been exhausted for the last five hours or so and having done nothing productive. Impulse control. I lack it.
And I just wish I could articulate what it is that I’m so stressed and anxious about. But anyway.)
TLC:
I see. I think it’s difficult to cleverly imply a rape and do it well. Rape has been very badly handled in a metric fucktonne of movies.
As difficult as rape scenes are for me to watch, I think if there’s going to be one, it’s best to do it as realistically as possible, as I’ve seen people be utterly shocked by such scenes, to the point that they change their thinking and even examine their own privilege. Think of a movie like The Accused.
I had a difficult time with the rape scene in Watchmen, too, but I think it’s better not to candy coat such scenes.
…Damn you, Richard Austin. Just from looking at the TITLE of that song, it leaped into and displaced my currently running earworm, which ws something by Evanescence… and I was trying to find out what the Evanescence song WAS! *grumble kvetch*
Earworms? You don’t want an earworm… it only takes one word. Or perhaps even only one letter… N
walton:
I bet you’re hanging around TET because stimulating social contact with familiar, trusted companions helps reduce your stress. I sure find myself nosing about on FTB suspiciously often when something subjectively terrible is hanging over me.
I like the original better.
Pteryxx:
Sorry :( My favorite Evanescence song is My Immortal.
Meanwhile, I’m going a bit nuts trying to get my calibre libary onto my ipad now that Stanza is dead :( It doesn’t help that instead of uploading just a few books I want to copy it all so it acts as a backup. And that I decided to move my entire library to a new sensible spot and copy everything in from multiple sources so I could dedup and save some space, and well, umm, it’s quite large. And I wanted to be done in time to go to a music festival and we’re supposed to be leaving in half an hour or so. *grumble grumble bloody computers spawn of yahweh*
Richard Austin: nope, that ain’t it. It was probably new enough to be on radio just a few days ago, quicker paced, short choppy repeats and then a sweeping strong part with several chord changes…
…Have you people got ANY idea how frustrating it is to try and locate a song without having heard any lyrics? Now that the earworm’s gone, all I have left is a visual/kinesthetic diagram!
@ Brogg 66
Hehe. On hot dry nights we would go and each do a “ringpis” (peeing in a circle) on the roads of our neighbourhood. The ultimate was to draw a whole “Anarchy” logo (an A within a circle) on a single bladder. These things would last for weeks.
…
(Again, sorry for misrepresenting Murray wrt the army.)
@ drbunsen 86
I tried your link but got this: picture. :)
My guess: sloerie could come from the diminutive of “hoer” (“whore”) eg: hoer-ie —> sloerie.
As an aside (sorry no youtube – I’m in China today), look for videos online, in which sound is run, via speakers, through a slurry (often thick custard). It really is amazing. Life Jim, but not as we know it.
@ Kitty 149
I wooed my (future) girlfriend with guitar outside her bedroom window late at night. Of course the music was bad as I cannot play to save my life. She thought it was really romantic though. *sigh* I haz a sentimental.
… {back to catching
the dragonTET}Pteryxx:
Yeah, sorry, don’t listen to the radio except when I work out, and that’s permanently fixed on KOST 103.5 Easy Listening (it’s the gym’s radio, I can’t change it).
BTW – check your mail.
re TAA: Holy moley, y’all are *still going* over there? I’m humbled and awed. (And a bit jealous…)
It was dormant for a while but a couple of spleen weasels just revived it.
Spleen weasels?
Not quite how I pictured them.
Pteryxx:
A couple of dull, broken crayons showed up, one with the charming nym of bitchpeas.
The first one addressed someone by the name of meyers and linked a video of PZ being an evil lech, which was supposed to condone TAA’s behaviour.
The charming bitchpeas presented the classic “I’m a woman and I hate feminists, too!” along with “I’m sure I’ll be chewed out by the OP because she’s a feminist and that’s what they do.”
Get Out Of Misogyny Free Card!*
*terms and conditions apply. Not available in all areas. Not intended for actual protection from misogyny.
I am already bored with bitchpeas, she might as well be a turing machine.
Replacement earworm.
Not sure if that’s Harry’s best moment ever, the Muppets’ best moment ever or both.
Last one for the night… this is the kind of music I grew up listening to, and it’s somewhat relevant.
Alan Parsons Project – Turn It Up
So much injustice… too many lies… we don’t have to look very far…
… But nothing with change if we leave things the way that they are.
The Downside Of Being A Fuck Up-Wreckless Eric & Amy Rigby
Obviously, PZ needs to get up from the bar in Pullman and put up some new posts or we’ll just keep coming back to that train wreck.
Janine:
Yep. They all think they are so novel, too! We couldn’t have possibly heard their harmless opinion before, oh no!
Oh glob. This is wonderful. They are “helping” him.
Anyone else ever watch the cartoon Reboot?
Ing: Yes. It was, IIRC, one of the first CG animated cartoons.
@TLC
“we are helping!”
I think one of them forgot to change socks.
I’m sorry Ing, I’m not following any other threads right now and it’s been a long time since I’ve seen reboot. The reference is utterly lost on me. :/
PZ needs to get up from the bar in Pullman and put up some new posts or we’ll just keep coming back to that train wreck
Speaking of other posts, where is this weeks Monday Metazoan and Botanical Wednesday?
Here’s one more for the earworm collection. Probably my favorite commercial ever, and in keeping with the retro early 70’s kick I’ve been on.
Sigh…I just love it when random people show up in a thread with 900 comments, where we already spent a whole freaking day disassembling idiots, and demand that we come back and answer the same shit again. And can’t be bothered to read any previous comments, or spell the OP’s name correctly.
I knew as soon as I saw the name “bitchpeas” in the recent comments list. You probably don’t pick a name like that at random.
I hope nobody is put off by my ‘nym. The “feralboy” was borrowed from The Tick, years ago, and stupid gmail made me put a number on the end. And it sort of reminded me of the “Daffodil-17” names from Vonnegut, so I kept it. Really, a frozen accident.
Anyway, bitchpeas…feh.
lump…
Reboot hda one episode where the computer made one character the smartest…by nerfing the intelligence of everyone else. the ‘allies’ were too dumb and kept ‘helping’ (while gleefully declaring that they are indeed helping) while sabotaging any efforts.
Now even if the asshole wanted to move on or apologize he can’t because his fans are too busy ‘helping him’ by showing how huge a fucking asshole everyone like him is and how dumb you have to be to go for this.