I am an atheist because I’m queer, specifically a pansexual transgirl. While I was in denial over my true self, I prayed to God nightly to just “Make these feelings go away, and make me a normal boy”, or “Please, take this pain away…just make me a normal girl…”. All I ever got in response was silence. When I almost took my life over it, I finally admitted that there was no god, and I was a girl. And when I came out to my parents, then they threw me out, I couldn’t help but wonder what kind of “loving God” would make a childs parents declare them “disgusting” and an “abomination”.
That’s why I’m an atheist.
Alexandria Schneider
United States
I was moved by your story. I have to admit that I had to look up what pansexual meant.
All this judgmentalism ignorance and fear fosters is so destructive. Hopefully, your parents will one day rise above their ignorance and be ashamed of their actions.
The LGBT community is one of the main reasons I stopped believing in god. When I was a “Christian,” I was taught that being gay was sinful, wrong, disgusting, etc. Then, I went away to a liberal boarding school for my junior and senior years in high school where I was exposed to people different races, religions, and orientations. It got to the point where I could not keep believing in a god who damned people for loving who they loved.
After that came the hours of internet research dozens of books that led me to be the atheist that I am today. And, I have also come to terms with my bisexuality. So your story resonates with me.
This is the part that continually amazes me. How can any parent who supposedly loves their child suddenly hate that child because of what that child is.
There’s a difference between what a person is and what they decide to be. If the daughter came out as a lesbian or a transsexual, then that’s what she is and I would continue to love her. If she decided to become a libertarian or a Yankees fan, then her ass would be out the door toot sweet!
Alexandria,
Your parents are wretched for reacting that way and good for you for having the strength to be who you are despite that. Thanks for sharing your story.
Alexandria, I’m so sorry your parents were so poisoned they were willing to throw you away. What a shame they’ll miss out on having such a vibrant, intelligent daughter.
T.J. Brown says: “The LGBT community is one of the main reasons I stopped believing in god. When I was a “Christian,” I was taught that being gay was sinful, wrong, disgusting, etc. Then, I went away to a liberal boarding school for my junior and senior years in high school where I was exposed to people different races, religions, and orientations. It got to the point where I could not keep believing in a god who damned people for loving who they loved.”
Please don’t take this as comparing you to white supremacists, but your comment reminded me of something.
I saw a TV documentary a decade ago (Discovery channel? PBS?) about white supremacists. One former member was interviewed, saying how he changed his attitudes towards “white supremacy” and towards those he was directed to hate when the hate hit home. He was told by people in the movement that his own son, who had Down Syndrome “wasn’t fit to live” and should be euthanized (or words to that effect) for the “purity of white people”.
“Movement” is a good word for white supremacists. They remind me of the contents of a bowel movement.
The old saying goes, “familiarity breeds contempt”, but in reality, familiarity breeds contentment. When you start meeting the “other” and seeing them as human beings, you stop believing the propaganda and prejudices.
Is it any wonder that the percentages of pro- and anti- view about gays, atheists and other people has a strong correlation to people’s ages? The younger someone is, the more likely they are to be educated about the “others” and less likely to discriminate against them.
http://www.people-press.org/2011/11/03/section-1-how-generations-have-changed/
Scroll down to “Generations, Social Issues and Religion” for the really meaty stuff.
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What Caine said. At the same time, their reaction freed you.
It’s a shame that the same people who say, “Love the sinner” and “Jesus was humble and ate with tax collectors” and tell the tale of “The Good Samaritan” don’t realize that these days it would be “The Good Pansexual Transgirl.”
One of the reasons I love my SO is that when his daughter came out as gay, his first reaction was, “Of course! I should have realized earlier.”
I think the generations thing goes both ways. Very young people may be quite prejudiced. As we get out into the world, we meet more different kinds of people and may become more accepting. Or we might even realize we are different kinds of people.
I’m glad you decided not to take your life, and I hope you continue to get stronger now that you know and can be who you feel you are meant to be. I am a hetero of the breeding variety, but, echoing sentiments above, a major point in my godless development deciding to take sides with my LGBT friends against the forces who see them as less than human – and who use them as props to bilk money out of credulous Xtian suckers. Thanks for sharing your story!
Wow. Just wow. I have read a lot of these on Pharyngula but your short story has moved me the most. Having not had a religion forced on me when I was a child, I truly cannot understand your parents’ reaction. I am so sorry that the people who should have supported you rejected you for who you are.
Personally, my relationship with my parents is poor to non-existant, for reasons other than religious ones, so I sympathise with how alone you must feel. I hope you can find people you can trust and love as you move on with your life. Good luck!
Tis:
Right, but I think the keyword is “supposedly”.
My guess is such parents never really did love their child. Extreme religious brainwashing leaves one unable to love anyone. They just don’t know how to.
It’s sad, of course. The parents likely do feel quilty about it, beat themselves up over what they did “wrong”, et cetera.
Sometimes one just needs to give it time. And stay in touch, somehow. At the very least, send your parent postcards with some frequency (e.g. birthdays, christmas). But sometimes the situation is really hopeless and you can’t let it undermine you.
Another lovely post in PZ’s testimonials.
Thanks Alexandria-I hope you can find the love that we all need.
Olav:
Seriously, don’t give out such advice. Each person handles such a situation in their own way and knows what to do in regard to contact. I walked away from my family decades ago and have had zero contact. I never will have contact with them. A former friend is a former friend because they had the same attitude as you and insisted it was better for me to get in touch, it was important, it was the right thing to do, yada, yada, yada.
Be supportive, but please refrain from this sort of shit.
Alexandria, your story is quite sad, & you have my condolences. I look forward to the day when such prejudice has disappeared. It would be just great if it came in time to benefit your parents.
Sucks about yr parents, Alexandria. But I like you, anyway.
I haven’t commented on these threads because the stories stand so well on their own, but I just had to add what few little words of support I could. Your parents are the ones who have missed out on a wonderful daughter and friend and the world is that much better for having you in it. It’s not much, but it’s awesome when you can see the kind of support and acceptance there is in a forum like this one. :)
As a parent, this is something that I can not understand nor forgive. Whatever my daughter chooses for her identity in life we will support her and love her. I suppose that’s the difference between secular family values and Christian family values. So, from a Christian perspective, it seems that if you love God you can hate your children, but if you love the children, you cannot love God. This explains why there isn’t a Commandment to love and cherish your children–that appears to be secular value.
Your parents really are missing out. Once I became a parent, I realized even more than before that you cannot change who your children are. And why would we want to? I wish you great happiness now that you can be the person that you are.
Nice to meet you, Alexandria.
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I think Greta Christina said it best:
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“We’re not angry because there’s something wrong with us. We’re angry because there’s something right with us.”
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Atheists have a right to be angry when we hear stories like this. Stories like this, or the story about religious parents beating their kids with plumbing equipment, make compassionate human beings get angry. Atheists are not busy consulting ancient handbooks, we are busy noticing suffering and injustice. Our moral guides are our eyes and ears.
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If the first thing that comes to your mind, when you hear that someone disowned (or beat) their child, is to defend your religion, then you are a deluded individual that needs to seriously reflect on your moral instincts.
Alexandria- Your parents put together didn’t have half the sense you showed when you accepted yourself.
I am assuming that you were homeless for awhile. I am also assuming that you somehow fell in with some people who helped you out. This is because you are around to give this brief but painful detail.
I hope you are doing well and that you reserve your love for those who actually helped you.
I’m so sorry you went through this, and so impressed that you came out the other side. You sound like rather an amazing person.
Have a virtual hug.
For those people who were around a couple of years ago, you might remember someone named Barb. You might also remember that I had a vendetta against her, It was because it seemed like she was the type of person who would toss a daughter like Alexandria out of the house. Barb was my surrogate for all of these terrible people and I wanted an answer.
Just like I would love to be able to demand an answer from Alexandria’s parents.
ChrisKG #16 – “Choose” is the wrong word for something the individual has no control over. It is not a choice.
This could have been written by our daughter (formerly son), up to the final sentence. We still love her just as much, she’s still just as much a part of the family, and we’re glad she’s finally happy with who she is. I just can’t figure out the mindset of parents who would throw their kids away like that.
Janine of the many monikers, OM #22
I remember Barb. She was ignorant, condescending, pompous, petty and stupid. She told you that you must have become a lesbian because of childhood abuse. She was the first person thrown into the Dungeon during Survivor: Pharyngula.
Sadly, I’ve seen this happen to one of my friends, too. He didn’t get quite as critical about religion as you did after that, but the hate of his “loving” Christian parents and other people in his family was palpable and despicable.
ironflange #24
It’s good to know there’s good people in the world.
I’m sorry to read about your parents throwing you out, Alexandria. I hope you’ve now found happiness in life, in spite of what they did and said to you. It’s a pity more parents couldn’t be like ironflange #24 in situations similar to what you experienced.
Reposting this, Mr.(Mrs?)Aitor go this comment on the wrong thread:
Aitor says: (26 November 2011 at 1:04 pm)
“Alexandria,
thank you for sharing.
I really wish that your parents come around.
Anyone’s sexuality is just a tiny fraction of who they are, and a private bit at that. That any people around you may choose to shun you for that is the tell-tale of bigotry and idiocy.
Do you pursue personal and social betterment, do you help others, do you share wisdom, do you interact with others in truth and honesty?
Then I (and I expect most reasonable people) would consider you a magnificent being.
Like I said, hope your parents shed their hate.
Warmest regards,
Aitor.”
I really feel your hurt. Growing up in a fundy household (although my parents would have never treated me like that), I know what the pressure is, the self-hatred, the feeling of one’s own sexuality being evil and disgusting. Hope you do great, there’s still lots of good people out there.
Just goes to show that unfit parents come in all shapes and sizes.
When/If our kid “comes out,” I’d have to bite my lip, as my first words might be, “so what?” Hopefully, I wouldn’t dismiss it as something trivial, as anything the kid does is important (to him and therefore to me).
I think it’s because large numbers of future parents grew up in an environment in which there was only one type of human being, one that conforms to the stereotypes depicted in “Leave It to Beaver”. When confronted with the reality of the variation in human nature, it threatens to shatter their worldview; making the child “go away” is a dissonance reducing behavior.
I have no kids yet, but if and when I do, we’ll try to raise them in an environment where total acceptance of peoples’ sexual orientations and gender identities is just obvious. Hopefully that’ll make any ‘coming out’ such a stress-free experience it wouldn’t even be an event. No child should think their parents wouldn’t love them if they really knew them.
Thanks for sharing, Alexandria. I’m sorry that your parents couldn’t accept the strong, wonderful woman that you are, it’s their loss.
I think atheism gives no answers to anyone’s problems either.
Thank you Alexandria. I hope you will find a new family who loves and accepts you for who you are.
This is the kind of story that reminds me of the proverb, “With our without religion, good people will do good things and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things, that takes religion.” Throwing your own child out of your house over something like that disqualifies those parents as being called “good”. Unfortunately, turning away gay children happens too frequently even in “civilized” countries like the US. I remember hearing on NPR a man recalling how his father gave him a hour to pack up and leave on his 18th birthday before calling the cops because he was gay.
At my family’s Thanksgiving dinner, two of my first cousins were pregnant (one already had a son). Now I wonder what would happen if one of them turned out to be gay and I don’t want to think about it.
@Coco Jumbo #34
Do you think that if Alexandria’s parents were Atheists they would have thrown them out? If not, there’s your answer.
This makes me truly sad. I have relied on help from my family in so many ways. I have even been contemplating moving back in with my parents for a while, or my sister. To not have that option would severely curtail my opportunities in life. I know that LGBT youth are at much higher risk for homelessness, drug addiction, and suicide than straight, cisgendered kids, precisely because of parents like Alexandria’s. I wish there were a way that supportive adults with resources could reach out to LGBT youth who’ve been kicked out of their homes, kind of like a Big Brother/Big Sister program only for teens and adults. *dreaming* *dreaming big*
————-
Coco the liar is back to troll us again, I see.
Thrown ‘them’ out? How do you mean?
A prediction: Coco the liar will not provide a straight answer to this question.
Ah Coco, you are so predictable.
‘Tis #3: toot sweet and tout de suite also ;) *
In any case – pretty damn awful of parents or anyone who professes love for another to betray them so unnecessarily and hurtfully.
* sorry ‘Tis the devil made me do it
Coco Dumbo wrote:
No, it’s quite obvious that you don’t.
It really is a pity your parents were so poisoned by something that they rejected you. I’m happy to live in a place where being gay is accepted as normal. I’m not sure about the rest of the country but in the Central Visayas region of the Philippines being gay is no more interesting than having big feet.
My wife has a 5 year old niece whose mother is pregnant. She phoned her grandfather to tell him the family would have another baby. He asked if she wanted a brother or a sister. She said she couldn’t decide so maybe the baby should be gay.
Alexandria,
Thank you for your story. It was very moving. You sound amazing. I am sure you will find a new family of friends and loved ones who will support you for who you are, not for what they arbitrarily demand that you be.
It never ceases to amaze me that people would reject their loved ones because of a belief system. I would think that when faced with a choice between believing in “things unseen” and loving one’s children, the choice would be trivially easy. I mean, really, any belief system that requires me to reject my children because of the way they are simply doesn’t deserve a second thought.
Alexandria’s story reminds me of an experience I had over 25 years ago. I was speaking with a very good friend of mine. He was (and is) outwardly very kind, loving, intelligent and great fun. Unfortunately, he was (and is) severely infected with the god virus. He knew that I was (and am) an atheist.
Both of our wives were pregnant at the same time (with each of our first children). My friend told me that he had a very important question to ask me. He was really bothered with a significant problem, he said.
He asked me what I would do if my child turned out to be gay. I told him that I would love my child the same without regard to sexual orientation.
He said he wouldn’t be able to do that. The bible says that homosexuality is a sin. He identified a distinction with being homosexual and performing homosexual acts. But he was afraid that he wouldn’t be able to keep the distinction in his head and that he wouldn’t be able to love a homosexual child. He was really worried.
I told him that homosexuality was not a choice and that his distinction was bogus. Who we love is not the problem. Who we hate is the problem, I explained.
I told him that I hoped he was loving enough to get over his concerns. I also told him to rethink his religion. He had asked me once why I wasn’t Christian; I told him this was one of the reasons.
This is a fellow who could easily have turned into someone who throws his kid out of the house for being LGBT.
Religion purports to spread love when it actually spreads hate.
OK. ‘Them’ means ‘her’.
Atheism doesn’t automatically bless people with things like open-mindedness, acceptance, tolerance, rationality, and the like. In other words, atheism doesn’t automatically turn narrow-minded, intolerant, irrational, and non-accepting people into open-minded, tolerant, rational, and accepting people. So, the answer is YES. Yes, her parents would have thrown her out even if they were atheists.
I ask her. Has atheism solved any of your problems you were facing before you’d become an atheist?
Alexandria–
I am glad you escaped from that coil of guilt and self-hatred. But that really sucks that your parents did that to you. I’m so sorry.
I’m sure I join many others here in the hope that you find loving friends and family-of-choice who accept you for who you are.
Best wishes.
Nobody here has claimed that atheism solves all of life’s problems, Coco. As usual, you have trouble reading for comprehension.
Why? Given that their belief that being gay and transgender is morally wrong is a religious belief. Why would a pair of atheists throw out a daughter because she was transgender or not heterosexual? There’s no reason for them to do that, so your bald assertion that they would have done so falls rather flat.
As I said, nobody but you has been claiming that being an atheist solves all of life’s problems. The advantage that atheism offers is that it does not put unnecessary obstacles in one’s path as one tries to negotiate life. The belief that being gay is morally wrong is a harmful, useless belief. It does nothing but cause pain to people who believe it, not to mention their loved ones who may not even believe it. It’s nothing but an unnecessary obstacle. Simply lacking the belief in god or gods puts none of those obtacles in one’s path.
Coco,
Methinks you have this backward.
Religion requires people to be narrow-minded, intolerant, irrational, and non-accepting. Once one seriously travels the path of becoming open-minded, tolerant, rational, and accepting, one is on the road to atheism.
Without a reason — religious or cultural or just plain stupid — to hate different people, then folks don’t tend to hate their children. Quite the contrary.
By definition, atheism lacks the religious reasons for hatred. Though Alexandria doesn’t say whether her parents’ hatred flowed from religious bigotry, given the context, we can draw a reasonable inference that religious bigotry was the reason.
I’m sure there are homophobic atheists, possibly even homophobic enough to throw their own children out of home. However I strongly suspect there is a much higher percentage of homophobic goddists, particularly of the Jebusite flavor, than homophobic atheists.
This much is true.
This does not follow.
If the question had been “what if Alexandria’s parents had been touched by the Flying Spaghetti Monster just the night before they threw her out?”, then you might have a good point, Coco. They’d probably still have thrown her out the next day.
However, I think the question is better understood as “what if Alexandria’s parents had been atheists all their lives, or had at least been atheists for several years?”
This table presents views on acceptance of gay people sorted by religion or lack thereof. It’s not about acceptance of trans people, but we can reasonably expect that the shape of that distribution will be similar while acceptance of trans people will be lower across all categories.
So (taking “should be discouraged” to imply kicking her out), we can expect that if Alexandria’s parents had been self-identified atheists for several years, they would have been less likely to kick her out than if they were Protestants, Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Orthodox Christians, other Christians, Muslims, Hindus, self-identified “secular unaffiliated” or self-identified “religious unaffiliated”.
(And we can expect that if Alexandria’s parents had been self-identified atheists for several years, they would have been more likely to kick her out than if they were Reform Jews, Buddhists, Unitarians, New Agers, or self-identified agnostics.)
Not true. Atheism is exactly the opposite of being an open-minded person. True, by turning to atheism you open yourself to a lot of new information, but, at the same time, you also close yourself to a lot more information at the other end of the spectrum. For example, we have scientists like Gary Schwartz conducting some very original experiments on the existence of God or spirit. Having an open mind would mean that an atheist cannot reject his experiments, and hence cannot remain an atheist, until someone is able to prove Gary Schawartz wrong, without any doubt. This is just one example. There are many more. Atheism is anything but having an open mind.
FIFY
Note also that Coco the liar is attempting to change the subject, since ahs ॐ has demonstrated that it’s an empirical fact that being religious means you’re more likely to kick your gay kid out of your house just for being gay. Like the dishonest coward that he is.
We still don’t know why her parents threw her. There could be a lot of reasons, which otherwise had nothing to do with religion. Peer pressure, family pressure, personal likes and dislikes, relationship issues, and what not? Plus, she never said her parents were devout followers.
Again, I am sure there are many atheists who are as homophobic as anyone could be. Your whole argument, it seems, rests on the assumption that being a homophobic can only result from religious bigotry and intolerance against homosexuality. This is wrong. As I said before, atheism doesn’t automatically turn an irrational person into a rational one. It doesn’t turn a homophobic into a … homolover.
Being “open-minded” does not mean simply buying into any nonsense that comes along. Any reasonable definition of “open-minded” includes a healthy dose of critical thinking — which inevitably will lead to rejecting religion.
So, when I use the term “open-minded” I don’t mean “open-to-any-crap-that-comes-along.” I mean open to ideas which are logical and have evidence to support them.
Nope. Stop projecting your thoughts onto other people and start reading for comprehension for a change. The hypothesis, which has already been demonstrated to have ample empirical backing, is that being religious (particularly Christian) simply makes you much more likely to be homophobic.
There is also the empirical fact that religion offers homophobes a very handy rationalization for hating and fearing LGBT folks. What rationalization does atheism offer? A homophobic atheist has to fall back on things like, “I just feel icky about it…” On the other hand, a religious homophobe can claim that he’s not hating and fearing gays, he’s just following God’s commandments. “God says it’s a sin” is a much stronger rationalization than “It makes me feel icky.”
You keep saying this, as if someone had posited that becoming an atheist automatically transforms you into a perfectly rational person. Straw man argument. Again, you fail to read for comprehension. As usual, you demonstrate that you have your head stuck so far up your ass that you can’t actually perceive what other people are saying to you.
Also, “homolover”? WTF?
ahs in #50 showed that being religious makes one more likely to be homophobic than being an atheist. So Coco is talking out of his fucking ass when he pretends that atheists are as homophobic as goddists.
Coco, why don’t you face up to the fact that goddism is a blight on humanity? Or just face up to the fact that you’re a blight on humanity.
Yes. I know that. And this is exactly the point I was trying to make before.
One thing “solved” in Alexandra’s life is the problem of why her prayers for “normalcy” were never answered.
Of course. And this is true, even when, especially when, atheists pretend they are not homophobic. This is because atheism is no cure for being homophobic. Atheism is not a medicine that can cure this disease. It is simple as that.
Let me give an example: If you were previously a believer and a homophobic because of your beliefs, and you then turned to atheism and stopped being a homophobic because of your atheism, it would all be merely a ‘surface reaction’. Which is to say, deep down, you would still be as homophobic as you were before, but on the surface you’d be denying that because of your atheism. You would telling yourself: You can’t be a homophobic anymore because you are now an atheist, which, if anything, would cause you even more confusions. Makes sense?
No, it wasn’t. You were trying to make the point that we should be open to any old crap that comes along. Including ideas that are not logical and have no evidence to support it. You’ve been very vocal about wanting to redefine “open-minded” to mean accepting of such bullshit, from Rumi’s God to Gary Schwartz’s bullshit experiments.
You are completely self-deluded.
Not if you were homophobic because god told you to be.
Atheism isn’t a cure for anything, it’s a result of something else. Some would even come to atheism after confronting their homophobia and realizing that it’s a flawed perspective. You have it as a cause, when it’s an effect.
Yeah, yeah. We’ve heard this bullshit before. It’s just as unconvincing now as it was the first time around. You think people don’t change. Lots of evidence contradicts you. You’ve provided no evidence to support your stupid idea. Why are you here again? Are you an intellectual masochist or what?
You will have to engage in an argument with me. At the moment, it seems you are doing something else. And why I am here again? You unwelcoming people. I have been giving you some original ideas and concepts. Where is my long-awaited ‘thank you’?
No you haven’t. You’ve been bullshitting and lying. This right here is just one more lie, though it’s becoming more and more clear that you lie to yourself just as assiduously as you lie to us.
Fuck you.
Original to you perhaps, but hardly something we have never heard.
And you believe atheism has turned you into a better person? I am sorry, but what a supreme delusion.
Now, Coco, it’s not as simple as you think. I’m gay, and have been same-sex attraced as long as I can remember. In early adolescence, I was socialized to be homophobic, toward myself and others. This is generally referred to as “internalized homophobia,” if you want to look it up.
I don’t think anybody in our society ought to claim to be absolutely not homophobic. Culturally, homophobia is rampant, and we’ve all learned it to a degree.
However, it is also true that I think and act less homophobic now than I did when I was a teenager. If I think less homophobic, and I act less homophobic, that’s the sum of what an individual’s homophobia is, therefore I am less homophobic now.
In my case, this is not a result of my atheism, as far as I can tell. However, if I had gone directly from conservative Christianity to atheism—as some people do—then it is plausible that my decrease in homophobia would be partially attributable to my atheism.
Wow, the depths of stupidity you are willing to plumb are truly fathomless. No, you stupid fool, YOU are the one who is positing that atheists think that atheism is a cure for life’s ills, or automatically turns you into a better, more rational person. That is your delusion, not mine.
Seriously, you just don’t have enough intelligence to be here. It has nothing to do with your language skills; you are just dumb. You have nothing to contribute. Your claims to originality are just self-delusion. You can leave now. Fuck off.
spell-check:
attraced –> attracted
So, you are saying that you are as troubled now as you were before you became an atheist? That turning to atheism hasn’t helped you in any tangible way? Then what good is this atheism for?
Did anyone previously say ‘straw man’? Wasn’t me.
Yes, Coco, I think I’m a better person for being an atheist. I’m not a deluded fuckwit like you, which automatically makes me a better person.
ahs: I am surprised to learn that you are a gay…. I will be back soon. Don’t go.
What makes you think you are not deluded? You are just saying it. Have you any evidence to substantiate your very lofty claim about you? At the moment, everything you say seem to contradict your claim.
I never really “turned to” atheism because I never really believed in God. But what the fuck, you don’t believe that such a thing is possible, because you are a self-deluded idiot. Fuck you, and don’t come back unless you’re in the mood for more verbal abuse. I have lost patience with you.
Here’s what you get: NO THANK YOU. You’ve offered no ideas, only a tedious drone of stupidity.
If you’re going to continue to make a habit of popping in to the atheist testimonial threads to carp and whine, you’re going to be banned. Otherwise, get over yourself. You’re not a valued commenter, you’re babbling background trash, and it would be no loss to boot you out of here.
I didn’t “become an atheist” in order to be less troubled, I “became an atheist” because I had no choice.
I’m not a goddist. I don’t follow the goddist delusion. Ergo I am not deluded. Since you do follow the goddist delusion, you are deluded. QE fucking D!
So? I’ve already given evidence multiple times before. Just because you’re too much of a deluded fuckwit to understand my evidence isn’t my fault. I’m not the one who’s a deluded fuckwit, that’s your job.
Only a deluded fuckwit would say such a stupid thing.
Coco Jumbo Puffs
Why must you be so annoying? You contribute nothing. Your idea of deep thought is circular logic. Your nym is appropriate, you purport to be food, but you’re really just a bowl of sugar masquerading as food.
The idea that anyone here would thank you for posting is inane.
WHO THE FUCKING HELL ARE YOU TOO BE SURPRISED BY THE SEXUALITY OF ANY RANDOM PERSON! AND WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO TELL A PERSON TO WAIT FOR YOUR RETURN JUST SO THAT YOU CAN QUESTION THE HOMO!
Everyone else, I am sorry. His unearned sense of self importance really aggravated me.
Also, in Coco Mother Fucking Jumbo ever had an original thought, his body would collapse because it would be a shock to the system.
Coco Dumbo wrote:
It’s pretty simple, Dumbo – if you believe in a god or gods and have no evidence for doing so, you’re deluded. So, your two options are a) present the evidence you have or b) admit that you’re deluded.
Which is it?
At least two typos. I should avoid lock caps.
But faith is the most wonderful thing in existence.
Janine,
I have spell check on all the time. It catches most of my typos.
‘Tis, I have spellcheck also. Shit, most smartphones have spellcheck. But they cannot check for wrong words. I just do not want to admit I need to be more careful.
Done derailing the derailment.
Alexandria, getting thrown out by your parents hurts. I know because I got thrown out too, and it was the best thing for me, but it did NOT feel like it at the time. In my case, I was a commie loving hippie due to my aversion to napalming Vietnamese villages. But it can be anything, religion, politics or sexuality it’s their way or the highway, I always choose the highway when dealing with these closed minded individuals. We are all amazingly different, yet we all still need the same love and acceptance that is our human heritage. Religion gives people the “right” to judge if others are “worthy” of love and acceptance. We don’t need no stinking judges.
I’m 61, and have two grown sons living at home. They have jobs, but they live at home because they like it and so does my wife and I. Create your own circle of acceptance Alexandria. Hugs!!
Pure, unadulterated bullshit, CJ! In fact, shoveling through the bullshit is exactly how some of us arrived here at atheism.
A mind overflowing with bullshit is not an open mind. Being gullible to the extreme and falling for any old bullshit is not having an open mind.
It is quite clear, CJ, that your mind is packed so full of bullshit that it is leaking bullshit wherever you go. Schwartz is easily shown to be full of bullshit on his very own Wikipedia page–that’s how obvious his bullshit is. So take your con man and shove it!
I’m really getting sick of seeing you walking all over people with your bullshit in these threads!! Alexandria doesn’t deserve it, I don’t deserve it, and neither does anyone else here! Stop your bullshitting and start listening for a change!
No it doesn’t make sense! No sense at all! If you were homophobic simply because the deity you worshiped had commanded it, then realizing that deity was always imaginary would have the immediate effect of making you question everything you thought that deity had commanded you to do, including hating trans and gay and bi people. Becoming an atheist is like taking the blinders off–so many things that you couldn’t see before become obvious, like how trans, gay, and bi people deserve just as much respect as any other human.
English not being your first language, I’m going to share a usage tip.
In the future, please go with “are gay” or “are a gay person”.
Of all the shitheaded things you could have said on this thread, this really takes the cake.
I don’t have time to read the thread, but I read read something way up there…
@Olav
@ Caine
Sometimes, our parents aren’t worth “honor thy mother and father”. Mine weren’t. Apparently, Caine’s weren’t either.
My father did the family a huge favor when he dropped dead abruptly, the rotten bastard.
It’s hard to blow off the parents. After all, they were like gods when we were children. But if they’re total assholes, life will be much better without them.
Tossing your kid because they are not hetero-normative sounds to me like they voluntarily tore up their parent card.
It’s their hell, they choose to live in it. I hope they enjoy it.
Alexandria:
A boy I went to school with was kicked out of his house at the age of 13 because he brought home a book that was not the bible. He got kicked out of his church because he told Children & Youth what actually happened (he did not honour his mother and father). It worked, eventually, in his favour. Helped him escape and even find happiness. Congratulations on your escape. I hope you find happiness in reality.
Possible. But it doesn’t create problems where none should exist. Yes, atheists can be bigots, misogynists, homophobic, authoritarians, libertarians, assholes, even steam afficianados, but those attributes, no matter how bad, are not a product of atheism. Bigotry, misogyny, authoriatianism, homophobia and intollerance are demanded by the book Christians call holy. For Christianity, those are features, not bugs.
They threw her out of the house because their ‘loving god’ demanded it. Just as my friend’s parents threw him out because their ‘loving god’ demanded it.
What other end? Self-delusion, and believing what other people tell you from old books of mythology/fiction.
Fixed that for you loser. The truth hurts, doesn’t it?
Fixed another one for you loser. The mind must be open to reject imaginary things. Peer pressure to believe imaginary things can be difficult to deal with. Delusion is believing without evidence. Since there is no evidence for imaginary deities, all godbots like you are delusional fools. Prove otherwise by providing conclusive physical evidence for your imaginary deity. Evidence that will pass muster with scientists, magicians, and professional debunkers, as being of divine, and not natural (scientifically explained), origin. Or shut the fuck up about imaginary deities.
Only a delusional fool like you would say such idiocy. It is well known and researched that being highly religious is much more likely to condemn homosexuality, and as a result, throw teenagers out of the house. Stop lying to yourself, then you can quit lying to us.
There can be some. But here’s your problem delusional fool. Atheists are more likely to be well educated and intelligent than religious believers. As a result, they are like to look at the real scientific evidence which is that homosexuals are born that way. It isn’t a choice. Your imaginary deity either is fucking with them, made a mistake, or using them for a different lesson than the babble gives. Makes you deity look bad in any case.
Actually it helps. One looks at recent research than a 2500 year old book of mythology for help. Intelligence in action.
How does the delusional belief in an imaginary deity make one better? OH, it makes one more like you, so you aren’t so lonely in your delusions. Actually it often makes people better. One must begin to think through morality. I find atheists have a much, much better understanding of how to apply the golden rule than xians. And they apply to almost everyone.
Nope, everything you say is strawman arguments. Not one iota of evidence in sight.
I was using ‘gay’ as a noun. Not as an adjective….
Well don’t.
Why not? Just because you people are not familiar that it can be used as a noun as well? Instead of asking me to turn my IQ down for you, why don’t you turn it up for me, and do yourselves all a huge long-awaited favour?
CJ, you have to turn up your IQ to be considered even a moderately intelligent poster. All your posts to date are stupid, banal, insipid, and lacking any cogency. You bring down the IQ of the blog when you post. Get over yourself. If you are as smart as you claim to be, you would delete bookmarks to this blog and forget about posting here. But the, you aren’t smart.
BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Best Dunning-Kruger EVAH!!
CocoJumbo, if you are capable of turning your IQ up, then please do so. It might help you to be come more self-aware.
Hey. I will go soon. Just here for a few hours. Treat me as a guest. No need to jump all over the place. By the way, how on earth could you ignore the stupidity displayed by your friend AHS?
Because it’s wrong, rude, and connotes a degree of homophobia in the speaker.
Coco Jumble:
Please, in your own words, describe evidence for any gods’ actual existence.
OK. But that’s not the point AHS raised. Being extraordinarily intelligent, he or she was trying to correct my English. What do you say about that?
More like an unwelcome stranger, a prosyletizer, a woo-pimp.
Coco Dumbo wrote:
You’ve been treated exactly as you deserve, given you’re a clueless and intellectually dishonest liar and creep – like so many of your moronic god-soaked kind are.
Go fuck yourself.
You have not said a fucking thing to show you have an intelligence that is too be respected.
Fucking sentient sack of shit.
Yeah. I fucking hate you, you smug spleen weasel.
You were speaking like a bigot, which I’m not sure you are and I don’t think other people think you are either. You should know this. ahs was being kind in offering you a tip.
OK. But I think all of you are trying to provide AHS a cover for his utterly stupid correction of my English. I still haven’t got an answer why a person like him/her is treated as an intelligent person here? Do intelligent people don’t know the difference between ‘nonus’ and ‘adjectives’? Or is it like, dumb people see other dumb people as intelligent?
You might just be the most extraordinarily obtuse person I have ever seen. Well, English or no English, I eagerly anticipate your attempt to match wits with ahs. Maybe he’ll tie one half of his brain behind his back to make it fair.
In order to be treated like a guest, you have to stop your dumbshit trolling. All your “observations” have been made here repeatedly by others. You are simply the latest on repeating the same insipid and idiotic fuckwittery. Buzz off, you have nothing to say of intelligence other than “good-bye”.
Corrections happen all the time. If you weren’t so dumb, you wouldn’t be corrected so much. In your case, the most intelligent statement you can make is silence.
It is so much more then the sentient sack of shit deserves.
You mean your IQ can go lower? I have to ask for evidence for this outrageous statement. There’s no way, unless you undergo metamorphosis into a bacteria* that your IQ could be turned down.
*I apologize to bacteria for thinking they were less intelligent than Coco Puffs.
CJ, go back and reread what ahs wrote very carefully. It was a usage tip. He didn’t say you made a grammatical error. He said don’t use gay that way for your own benefit.
CJ, calling a person “a gay” dehumanizes that person. Being gay is only part of a person’s makeup, and unless you are looking to become romantically involved with that person, completely irrelevant.My assessment of things at the moment is that you may well be too dense to understand that.
Coco Jumbo
Have you considered the fact that you are going to Hell after you die?
Coco Jumble, answer this fucking question; what evidence to you have of your fucking superior intelligence. Besides the fucking fact that you claim to be very intelligent.
@ Coco Puffs
Are you homophobic? Do you think being gay is a sin?
It goes up to eleven.
OK. That’s fine. Don’t treat me like a guest. But I look at the whole situation differently. I think if you people were even a little bit honest about what you say about me, then you would never ever ask me to leave. This ‘trolling’ is just an excuse, and a very lame excuse. But I said before, I will leave soon. Silence is going to happen very soon. So, while I am here, try to say something more constructive than asking me to leave.
[Since you’re leaving very soon anyway, you won’t mind if I hasten your ass out the door. Pretentious, pompous twit, meet the banhammer. –pzm]
I’m repeatedly finding myself of the same opinion, Janine, especially on this thread. CJ does his damndest to not listen to anyone, let alone Alexandria who wrote about a terrible experience that is now being pushed out of the discussion by CJ’s ego.
No cocopuff, it is your usage that is incorrect.
Coco Jumble, perhaps this will help you figure out your problem.
ahs is a gay
vs
ahs is a gay man
Coco Jumble is a stupid
vs
Coco Jumble is a stupid fuck
Use that big fucking IQ of yours. Are you intelligent to see how that works.
You are not a special snowflake, cupcake.
Coco Puffs,
You’re rude to us, you’re condescending, you’re pompous, you whine when someone politely corrects your English, you ask stupid questions, you pay no attention to the answers we give, and you think we shouldn’t want you to leave? You are a deluded fuckwit.
Fixed that for you troll.
Why would we want to keep a dumbshit who can’t think around? You haven’t said anything we haven’t heard repeatedly before. You seem to be under the delusion you are to the first person to present your idiocies to us. You aren’t even the first this month.
Until you actually say something intelligent, there can be no discussion. You would know that if you actually had read the archives. But you are both too stupid and lazy to do so…
Something tells me you don’t understand the nuances of the word tip, either. Please look that word up, study it, then reread #90 again.
Actually, he’s editing the wiki page right now. You know, the world does not revolve around you Coco Puffs.
Don’t you just hate long goodbyes? Coco Jumbo is no longer welcome around here.
Hey, fuckface. You were away from this blog for a couple of hours. Were you prepare you sneering responses.
Also, I thank you and the enablers we are for allowing to to fucking blow up the original topic, Alexandria.
Fucking waste of meat.
dammit
I wanted to hear the coco opinion of the afterlife.
well, not really
He will not be missed.
Coco Jumble, I will not thank you for commenting here.
QFT
PZ said:
That’s ok. Coco Puffs aren’t very good anyway. I much prefer Captain Crunch.
I was trying to help you avoid connotations that a non-native English speaker might not be aware of.
Hey look, here is me speaking cromulently on nouns and adjectives.
Yeah, I was quoting Carlie, but I probably grokked her meaning.
+++++
Goodbye, Coco. I’m sorry you were so closed-minded.
I would accept “but I’ve seen ‘gay’ used as a noun. Why are you correcting me?” from a non-native speaker. That’s a reasonable question.
I certainly hope I would have the good sense to ask such a reasonable question if I were engaging with native speakers of my second language.
Ooh, ouch! That had to hurt Mr. I’m So Open Minded With My Ramped Up To Eleventy!!!1111!1! IQ (that is, if CJ read it, which I think is likely). ;>
Do The Bamned continue to read?
There is Life After Banning?
After preview, I think I prefer bamn, bamning, bamned.
Rey Fox, if you want to see it, it’s here. I declare victory at #675. Beware: Coco is so evasive that it may make the conversation frustrating to read.
Hahahahaaa
Coco the liar is bamned. And I just had a lovely night drinking and dancing and donating money to fund access to reproductive freedom. I knew Coco would end up bamned someday. See, truly original thinkers don’t end up bamned because they offer something interesting to the commenters, even if they don’t agree. Coco never offered anything but stale one-liners and half-baked psychological theories unsupported by evidence. It was inevitable, really. He is indeed evasive, so much so that one must sincerely wonder whether he is deceiving himself or others more. Either way, dishonesty makes for incredibly boring commenting.
I do think that there can be non-religiously motivated homophobia, outside of the ick factor, maybe social conformism (what is it called, heterosexism), or some kind of silly idea that only sexual pairings that can produce offspring are legitimate. According to the Pfft, Lenin decriminalised homosexual acts in the S.U., but other leftists (probably Stalin, who reversed the decision) saw homosexuality as a “bourgeois disease”. Mao also saw it as “social disgrace or form of mental illness”. The Nazis persecuted gay men because they weren’t partaking in the procreation of the master race. (Nazi jurists discussed including lesbians, but that never came to pass, though the pre-Anschluss Austrian law which was gender neutral, stayed valid in Austria.)
But I fully agree that nowadays, the major motivation of homophobia, especially institutionalised homophobia, seems to be religiously motivated.
Lenin sincerely believed in equality, and was willing to do the right thing even when it might hurt his popularity. Another example: his speech against against antisemitism, distributed on gramophone record and excerpted into graphic media for mass consumption during his time in office.
I know he’s gone, but to address the basic point Coco Jumbo made, in my experience commenting on the Pinknews gay news network the vast majority of trolling and homophobia that comes our way (a good 90%) comes with a bible quote attached.
I wouldn’t be so naive as to say there’s no such thing as an atheist homophobe, some people are just brought up culturally homophobic (peer pressure in the playground etc.) but if you go back far enough you will usually find someone will have instilled stories of Sodom and Gemorrah or Leviticus 18 somewhere down the line.
Atheist homophobes only have subjective personal preference and their own sexual hangups to draw on as reasons. And possibly the old flawed argument that it’s “not natural” whatever that means. I could dredge up the usual youtube clips of male on male and female on female animal couplings filmed on youtube to prove my point, but long since resigned myself to the fact that homophobes are immune to rational argument.
If it’s nurture homophobes start insisting you had an absent father and recommend long debunked ex-gay therapies and if it’s nature they start researching eugenics. This is why I prefer to tell them to fuck off.
This is true.
I prefer to go digging for personal testimony from an older couple who can speak of being there for each other for decades, what hardships it’s worth to have someone beloved to share a brief lifetime with, how they fell in love and how much it means to have their love just acknowledged by the people around them.
Not something I envision for my own life, but compelling all the same.
No indeed. We have one regularly posting here, the loathsome Human Ape.
Yes indeed; everyone was equally entitled to do as the leadership of the CPSU(B)* told them, or get silenced/imprisoned/shot.
Oh my god, she’s been humping my pans!
Thank you for sharing your story Alexandria. I hope you find peace and love beyond your wildest dreams.
For what it’s worth I have a brother who’s a born-agin fundamentalist who’s only met my daughter as a pre-verbal infant. I won’t shed any tears if they never meet again. On the other hand, I have two father-in-laws who’ve been together for around 25 years. They’ve been asked to babysit every time we see them. You might not be able to choose your family but you can sure as hell choose which of them you associate with.
And in a more self-centred vein: adding the insult “Smug spleen weasel” [Janine #106] to my lexicon came damn close to making up for the bottomless inanity of CocoPlop’s comments.
WARNING: ConcernedJoe going to get on his milk box and drone on about one of his pet-peeves!
I really wish we’d can the word Atheism. Yes technically a valid word in certain contexts I guess, but the common connotations and attributions too easily allow people with agendas like Coco to say things like “.. atheism.. not better person .. gives no answers..”.
The word atheism implies there is something organized around the “-ism” like one expects from “Protestantism”, “Communism”, etc. It feeds into the religionists’ view that we have dogma, doctrine, standards, leaders, agendas, etc. LIKE THEY DO. It validates in their minds things like “Stalinism == Atheism”.
I am an atheist. I have no “-ism” package that surrounds that. Simply I do not believe in the supernatural.
Because I am an atheist I do not look for answers based on belief in the supernatural. Any atheist would have to say that.
Because I am an atheist I do not feel any SUPERNATURALLY imposed obligation to accept the prescribed rights and wrongs of any religion. I also think any atheist would have to say that.
I try to evaluate things (moral and technical) using a valid “scientific method” (rational method) of some sort BUT that trait is not exclusive to atheists. Many proclaimed theists/deists do likewise also practically speaking.
MY being free of “god-delusions” and attendant religion helps ME appreciate the value of my humanity and that of others more than when I had such delusions. It also helps ME to better accept people as they are, and to look for potential value in all. It makes ME more inclined to eschew prescribed rules of any sort when judging people.
MY being free of “god-delusions” and attendant religion also makes ME more inclined to feel we all have to work TOGETHER and LOOK OUT FOR ONE ANOTHER; that is, it diminishes MY inclination to feel superior or act selfishly.
But all I said that could be interpreted as “being a better person” is not exclusive to an atheist. Again in essence many proclaimed theists/deists do likewise also practically speaking.
I am also an IMPERFECT human. Sometimes I’m good; sometimes I am “bad”; sometimes I am rational; sometimes I am not! Atheists are human and act human (imperfectly), theists/deists likewise. Duh! So what!?!?
What is exclusive to atheists is: we do not believe in god(s)/supernatural. As I stated above – being atheist helps ME navigate life more comfortably, more objectively I think, and in my judgement more morally as I see it. But that is just me!
Concernedjoe, they would simply shift their inanities to whatever general term became the norm for non-believers. Far better to simply own the word and either ignore their nonsense or fight back against it for the benefit of undecided onlookers.
I think I am also. However, I just seem to acknowledge it to myself every now and again; then roll on, living in the biology that got me here. It seems it’s one of the ways the dice get shaken out of the cup.
This proves that it’s easy to make normal people to do bad things in the name of religion.
“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” — Luke 14:26
[OT]
Margaret, no point quoting the babble; it’s chock-full of contradictions.
Matthew 15:4 – “For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’”
Matthew 18:10 – “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.”
Romans 12:10 – “Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves.”
(Heh)
Alexandria Schneider, thank you for your personal story. I very much admire your courage and personal integrity, and apologize for not responding first to you before responding to another commenter.
John Morales, it does no good to quote the “love” parts of the bible to the fundies, but it is good to quote the “hate” parts of the bible to so-called moderate xians who pretend (or even believe) that the bible is only the “love” parts they cherry-pick instead of also containing the “hate” parts the fundies cherry-pick. (Given the horrendous contents of the bible, the fundies have less difficulty cherry-picking than the moderates.)
Margaret, you were the one who quoted scripture on an atheist blog to an atheist.
Janine, yes I was. Sorry. I’ll stop digging now.
Margaret, kudos.