One of those lunatic religious right sites compiled a list of the top ten “anti-christian attacks” of 2009…and the pathetic thing about it is how feeble and largely imaginary the attacks are. They range from a rantin’ anti-choice pastor getting arrested for harassing women at a clinic to the existence of those uppity gays who complain when Christians lie about homosexuality. There isn’t one crucifixion or involuntary lion-feeding on the whole list. Read this dissection of the compilation — those poor guys are really desperate for some notable oppression.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
Voluntary lion-feeding perhaps? Please, think of the lions! They have to eat too.
Down here in the Bahbull Belt I sometimes include in my course policies the clarification “You are not being ‘persecuted’ if someone disagrees with you or offers an alternate opinion.”
There was an excellent take-down of that bullsh*t on Open Salon as well: http://open.salon.com/blog/ethicalhedonist/2010/01/05/anti-christian_bigotry_oh_this_ought_to_be_good
“There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dare not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not real, he becomes furious when they are disputed.” [Bertrand Russell, “Human Society in Ethics and Politics”]
No one has a right to not be offended.
So I was reading the article and an ad caught me eye…
http://rescuemarriage.org/
This is a spoof, right? Please tell me it’s a spoof.
Well, we are talking about people who think not being allowed to infringe on others rights is infringing on their rights.
I’ve noticed that fundies claim they’re being attacked when they’re not allowed to attack others. It’s like they think they’re exempt from the laws everyone else has to follow.
Bullies hate it when the bullied fight back.
There is some serious persection of Christians in the world. Forced conversion of Copts to Islam in Egypt for example.
But not in the United States.
I’ve never understood why so many Christians are so desperate for their own crosses to bear.
Is it merely a wanton desire to be Christ-like without doing any of the actual work? You know… things like being nice to gays and the poor, giving away all worldly possessions and money, etc. Instead, when a Jew makes a joke, or someone tells them “Happy Holidays”, or they have to check “spouse A” and “spouse B” instead of “man” and “wife” on a marriage registration, they start sobbing like Daddy just finished tying together a fresh set of two by fours.
Weak. Frakkin’ weak.
Jesus specifically told his disciples they’d be persecuted.
The fundie position is that persecution is a universal sign of having The TruthTM rather than Jesus making a statement about the disciples’ immediate future.
Well? What are we waiting for?
Let the oppression begin!
I’ve never understood why so many Christians are so desperate for their own crosses to bear.
Heretic, I remember that some people claimed to better understand what jesus was after watching The Passion Of The Christ. All of the beatings and blood spoke to them. And let’s not forget those people in the Philippines who get crucified as part of their Easter celebration. Think of the two shootings as an attempt to turn those murders into stories of pain, redemption and faith.
I’ve never understood why so many Christians are so desperate for their own crosses to bear.
Heretic, I remember that some people claimed to better understand what jesus was after watching The Passion Of The Christ. All of the beatings and blood spoke to them. And let’s not forget those people in the Philippines who get crucified as part of their Easter celebration. Think of the two shootings as an attempt to turn those murders into stories of pain, redemption and faith.
Ya have to luv a malfunctioning machine.
@5 Yes and a damn funny one. “That’s why I am proposing that we build a rainbow-colored wall to keep out the inevitable flood of gay Mexican couples who will come up here and take traditional marriages away from hard-working Americans.” Oh Miguel, how could you?
I tried watching “Curb your Enthusiasm” a couple of times, found it unfunny, & gave up.
Now i read this, (one of the Xian persecutions), “During Sunday’s episode, David, who created, wrote and produced “Seinfeld,” visits a bathroom in his assistant’s home and splatters urine on a picture of Jesus. Instead of wiping it off, David leaves the restroom. Minutes later, David’s assistant enters the bathroom and concludes that Jesus is crying. She then summons her mother to the bathroom, where both women kneel in prayer.”
I’d have laughed at that.
Re: MichelleR, #5
It is a spoof.
True, it almost needs an appeal to Poe’s Law! But the links at the bottom of the page give it away. The articles, as far as I can tell from a quick glance, satirize the popular anti-gay marriage arguments of fundamentalists.
I was going to comment about the Copts, too, since they were mentioned on NPR today. I mean, seriously… Look! Actual persecution of Christians as a minority! Today! None of this weaksauce ‘someone said something mean to us or got offended by something we said’.
I’ll believe Christians are being persecuted when:
–any of them have an eye gouged out while being beaten to a pulp then shot before being tossed into a river with a cotton gin fan wrapped to his body with barbed wire…for flirting with a non-Christian woman.
–are beaten, castrated, murdered and left hanging from a public street corner simply because it’s okay to be mad at one person but kill another like him instead, because, well, they’re all just as worthless–aka, they all look alike.
or
–find themselves dragged behind trucks until their bodies are ripped apart.
When those things start happening solely to Christians for being Christian, and nothing else, then they can play the persecution card.
Until then, they can grow up, get some sense, and shut the fuck up.
Is this the religious version of the “they laughed at Einstein”1 defense?
[1] They also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
I have been listening to Bart Ehrman (Professor of Biblical studies at UNC. Former fundie and current agnostic. Great stuff about how the Bible was put together. Thanks to whomever posted the link to his site!) One of his interviews was with a minister ( Bart Erham Interview) who told the story of how he was at a lake and began talking to a man who was hauling a very expensive boat out of the water. Because he was wearing his collar, the man began to complain how he was persecuted because of his Xtianity. The minister asked him, in astonishment, how someone with all his wealth, comfort & security, in a dominantly Xtain nation, could be consider himself “persecuted”? Who was persecuting him? His response: Democrats!
Nothing but the petulant whine when special privileges are reduced equal rights.
Pretty much.
Because the victims were Christians but persecuted for some other reason?
To be fair, a couple of the entries on that list involved Christians (one an abortion protester) getting shot, which is definitely non-trivial. However, it’s far from clear that either of those tragedies had anything to do with the victim’s identity or activities as Christians, rather than being a case of some nutjob with a gun. The Ethical Hedonist was generous and gave them 1/10.
My favorite is where the mere participation of a gay band at the Inauguration constitutes persecution of Christians. By that logic, having Rick Warren give a prayer persecutes all sorts of people!
Re: Aquaria, #20:
May I add to your list something like being robbed, pistol-whipped, tortured, tied to a fence and left to die for not sharing the sexual inclinations of the attackers?
Yeah, like if KKK or somebody like them attack a black man who happens to be Christian, it doesn’t generally fall under the tag of “Christian persecution”.
Oh, and also:
http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/middle-east/Attack-on-Coptic-Christians-in-Egypt-Leaves-7-Dead-80885572.html
And they are complaining about the Gay Men’s Chorus of Washington. Oh FFS.
Maybe they don’t consider Copts to be Real ChristiansTM, and Muslims persecuting heathens isn’t interesting.
*reads list*
Wow. That is a special load of entitlement right there. It doesn’t take much to set these folks off, huh?
(I use the term “folks” loosely. Is CADC really any bigger than say, the Catholic League aka Bill Donohue and his computer?)
Does it occur to Mr. Cass that if it’s an anti-Christian attack to allow a gay man to speak at the Inauguration, then the idea of a bigoted attack actually doesn’t mean much?
Re: Abdul Alhazred, #27
I’ve actually seen many times this attitude. And not only in fundamentanuts, but also in more “mainstream” Christians. Just the other day I had a Catholic acquaintance (and not even a very convinced one, more like the wishy-washy “Sunday-only” type) arguing that Copts, and Jehova’s Witnesses, and Mormons, and Baptists, and so on, and so forth — aren’t really Christians at all.
Because the victims were Christians but persecuted for some other reason?
I don’t know their beliefs, asswipe, but you can bet that, if the victims were Xians, Xians would try to get away with retroactively claiming Emmett Till or Michael Donald or James Byrd, Jr., as martyrs for being Xians. The problem, of course, is that it was “good, god’fearin'” Xians who were killing other likely Xians. When that happens, you have to rule out the common denominators (pun not intended), and go with the likely source of conflict, the big difference between them: skin color.
Since you wondered, you obtuse toad.
@Eamon Knight,
Since I’m familiar with the story at #5, let me repost my comment here to make it clear that Mr. Pouillon’s killing had nothing to do with abortion or, for that matter, Christianity.
First, Harlan James Drake was found incompetent to stand trial and had to undergo psychiatric treatment before going back to court.
Also, according to Mr. Drake’s friends and family Mr. Pouillon’s shooting had nothing to do with abortion. From the county’s chief assistant prosecutor Sara Edwards there didn’t appear to be a “triggering event” but Pouillon’s presence outside the school seemed to aggravate Drake. It was “the fact that he was outside the high school with his signs in front of children going to school,” she said.
Unless the CADC is prepared to argue that inappropriate behavior around school children is a tenet of Christianity #5 does not belong on the list.
Second, here’s one that does belong on the list. A Christian, shot in the head, assassinated for his beliefs right inside his church. Of course, the killer was also a Christian so it’s possible that the CADC does not consider this assassination to be, you know, anti-Christian persecution.
@22:I have been listening to Bart Ehrman (Professor of Biblical studies at UNC. Former fundie and current agnostic. Great stuff about how the Bible was put together. Thanks to whomever posted the link to his site!)
OT: I’ve been enjoying quite a bit of Ehrman lately. Read his God’s Problem (ie. the Problem of Evil) last year; should really finish writing up a review for the HAO blog. Currently reading Misquoting Jesus about how the New Testament text was transmitted (and changed along the way). The gory details of textual criticism are fascinating, if a bit esoteric (arguably, who cares if the text got changed, if it was all bullshit in the first place?). We also got his lecture series on early Christian history from the Learning Company, which we listen to in the car on long trips (so far, we’ve covered about 6000km, and are only half way through).
I recommend Ehrman.
The “persecuted” constantly are projecting what *they* would do if given the reigns of power. This is why they are so committed to St. Sarah of Wasilla, who will bring them all to the Promised Land and slay all the enemies of God.
Uganda-gate gave us all a good idea of where American Christianists would like to go. They can deny it all they want, but you can find plenty of people in ev-fundy churches that would support the kind of law that was being proposed.
This is great to know. If this is how out-of-proportion they’ll blow up events from up to a mere twelve months ago, imagine what they’d do with a 2,000-year-old story.
[Enter Pontius Pilate and Jesus, circa 30 CE]
“Look Jesus, Judas told me about some of the stuff you’ve been saying publicly. As your friend, I’d caution you to stop making such speeches outdoors where all passers-by are subjected to your loud ranting. If you keep it up, you might be subject to a minor fine for disturbing the peace. You’re more than welcome to rent a hall or a synagogue for your followers. Indeed, many of my own centurions would be glad to hear you speak outside of working hours.”
[Fast forward to Christian blowhard douchebag, Dover, Pennsylvania, 2005 CE]
“2,000 years ago a man died on a cross, can’t someone stand up for Him now?”
Christianity: Crying ‘Wolf’ for Over 2,000 Years.
Copts not real Christians? That’s messed up, since the Coptic liturgy might be the oldest continuously used Christian liturgy anywhere.
The Torah is older, no? Yet nobody considers the Jews to be Christians :-). They have a long history of “no true Christianing”. Just talk to a Baptist sometime.
(Yeah, I know, nothing to do with Christ there. But the Christians still use the text!)
Jeesh! I’ve been eviscerating live babies and roasting them, pouring boiling acid on live puppies nailed to wall, and even farting in the direction of the local church, and I didn’t make the list! Whilst I got some good meals and lots of laughs, it is a lot of work whipping the slaves before tossing them to lions, and I’m very disappointed to have been overlooked.
According to JC, the only way to know you’re doing it right as a Xian is if you’re getting persecuted.
Matthew 5:11-12. “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”
Luke 6:26. “Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets.”
So, even if you’re the majority and you aren’t really being persecuted, you have to go out and find some persecution to hang your Xian self-esteem on.
The Torah is older, no? Yet nobody considers the Jews to be Christians :-). They have a long history of “no true Christianing”. Just talk to a Baptist sometime.
The Jews need to be perfected.
@36
So yeah, I remembered the actual definition of liturgy 10 seconds later, instead of using a cognitive shortcut seeing the ‘lit-‘ and feel properly chastened. But I felt a little snarky when discussing the topic of calling certain sects no true Christian, having attended both Baptist and evangelical churches during my religious years. They tend to call white Catholics not Christians, why would they care about brown Copts? We always heard stories of Christian persecution but they tended to involve people of fairer skin tones and little to no actual persecution.
@ #7,
I know , like a mugger suing the police for restraint of trade….
“7. The overt homosexual participation in Obama’s presidential inaugural events by “Bishop” Vickie Eugene Robinson, the Gay Men’s Chorus of Washington D. C., and a homosexual marching band.”
The very existence of gays is anti-Christian. Nice of them to come clean and admit it.
Rey Fox, I am waiting for bobocop to pop in and tell us how we need to be nice to those christians.
(Yes, the misspelling of his moniker is intentional.)
I love the post PZ linked to. I blogged on this myself a few days ago, but the Paliban Daily one is better. For comparison’s sake, feel free to check out: http://isitluck.wordpress.com/2010/01/05/persecution-in-america-is-fake/
I blogged about this a few days ago. While Paliban Daily’s piece is more thorough, mine is more vulgar. That counts for something, no?
http://isitluck.wordpress.com/2010/01/05/persecution-in-america-is-fake/
Einstein in a bar: “My wife doesn’t understand me.”
Sorry for the repost. Commenting got a little buggy on me.
Which is why they are trying to wipe them out, starting with Uganda.
Hmmm. Seems they’d recognize a good thing when they see it. It was the willingness of a few Christians to willingly face the lions with a smile on their face that brought the Romans around to eventually embrace Christianity. It’s hard to be mad at those who provide good entertainment.
Einstein in a bar: “My wife doesn’t understand me.”
The poor, persecuted Christians. My heart bleeds peanut butter for them.
Proof that some weird deity can override the laws of biochemistry.
Because it never gets old…
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7461/oppressed1.gif
The only one on there with any merit is the one about kids being prevented from praying at school – assuming it’s true. If it is true, those are some mightly clueless teachers and school administrators.
@#54: “The only one on there with any merit is the one about kids being prevented from praying at school – assuming it’s true. If it is true, those are some mightly clueless teachers and school administrators.”
Indeed. So if we are to give them that one, it becomes the Top 1 Instances of Christian Persecution…which is some students temporarily prevented from praying while on school grounds. Not a good thing, certainly, but on the scale of soul-crushing oppression, it ranks about a 1 (out of 100).
Help! Help! I’m being repressed!
Highly unlikely. More likely, is is often the case, what is not being allowed is organized prayer sessions lead by and endorsed by the school. Sit at your desk and pray (in silence) to your heart’s content… just don’t expect it to be ok for the school to lead and endorse an organized, denomination-specific prayer session. That’s not allowed.
Celtic:
I can picture, however, a school employee with a tremendous misunderstanding of the law (maybe they listened to Raytard too much) believing it was their job to stop students from praying on school grounds. They’d be wrong, of course, but given the way American schools operate, I can picture that happening.
Huzzah! I’m back to nigelTheBold! Thank SB for fixed logins!
Ahem.
If I may: These poor Christians are being persecuted. They really are. Wanna know why?
Because we won’t let them establish a Christian theocracy.
Now, hear me out. This really is a problem. Consider it from their perspective: Jesus is the only way to salvation. One of their biggest factors RE: getting into heaven is their ability to get other souls(tm) into heaven. All of these actions prevent them from establishing their theocracy. Srsly.
This is like an Amway representative coming to a Better Business Bureau meeting and saying, “We ain’t no Ponzi scheme, and even if we are, you’re interfering with our business!” They’ve got a point. By educating the populace, by refusing to kowtow to their demands, we are actively impeding their acceptance into heaven! At least from their point of view.
I don’t have the heart to tell them that god lets people into heaven based on their driving. Cutting someone off on the interstate, or suddenly crossing 3 lanes of rush hour traffic to get to your exit, is the surest way to hell. Poor saps.
Yeah, this one is pretty bad, but this isn’t the first time it’s happened. Here’s the earliest example I can find of Christians being told not to pray by a teacher.
The one about kids being prevented from praying is true for a very loose definition of true.
The actual problem is that they ran over lunch time, not that they were praying.
Less Christian persecution.
More Christian prosecution.
As far as the “who is a Christian” question goes it’s fair to say that Mormons aren’t Christians. They’re a spin off sect given their belief in the Book of Mormon and doctrines such as post death marriage and so forth.
Kudos to you, Brownian, OM.
The existence of people who aren’t Christian? That’s Christian persecution.
Those people being open about not being Christian? That’s Christian persecution.
Those people objecting to Christians doing whatever the heck it is they want and claiming their religion gives them the right to do so? Oh, you better believe that’s Christian persecution.
[with thanks to Jasper Beardly]
James Hanley commenting at Ed Brayton’s blog found a detailed dissection of each claim.
Short version: factuality content is exactly what gawdless Pharyngulite minions would expect.
Brownian shoots
and SCORES ftw
@ Rutee: Do you have a link with more info on the case? The person commenting on the list asked for one but no one provided it, it might be helpful if you dropping a comment pointing him/her in the right direction.
timgueguen @ # 63: … it’s fair to say that Mormons aren’t Christians. They’re a spin off sect …
Eh? Aren’t they all spin off sects, with the possible exception of [pick one] Greek Orthodox or Roman Catholics?
The Mormons call themselves The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, thereby meeting the Official Criterion of two or more gathered in Da Name.
How dare those homosexuals complain about being treated badly and lied about – they should shut the hell up or else Good Christians will stop believing in science! See, teh gayz are persecuting the christians! It’s no wonder god hates them! Kill them all!
Sorry, caps lock is broken so I can’t type it out like a proper jesus cult screed.
Of course Emmett Till was a Christian. At any rate his family had his funeral in a church.
That doesn’t mean he or his family were a fundie crackpots or anything like that.
I don’t think ‘fair’ would be the correct word to use; other sects don’t consider them Christians, but it’s on a wholly subjective basis, rather than by anything definitive or conistent.
Oh, #30
What the hell is your problem?
Many Christian sects consider themselves to be the only true Christians and all others as non-Christians.
Funny, isn’t it? You’d think a perfect god and his performance-art-loving offspring would be able to deliver the most message humanity was ever given in such a way that there couldn’t be any ambiguity, wouldn’t you?
I’d say it was another nail in the coffin of Christianity’s validity, but I don’t think there’s enough exposed timber left for one to fit – it’s been all nails for a long time now.
Perhaps we could see a comparative list?
On one side, the persecution by Christians of non-Christians over the last 2000 years, and then the opposite list, of persecution directed against Christians by non-Christians.
Not that you can quantify suffering, but I have a feeling the balance of evil would be fairly heavily weighted on one side.
You just know that any Christian expression of their persecution complex will quickly segue into one of their favoured topics; fatwah envy.
The ‘logic’ goes something like this;
“Those damned ‘mooslems’ are savages! They are always killing people and making baby Jeebus cry! Still, fact is all you baby eating heathens are scared of ’em. You never dare say bad things about Islam, ’cause you know what that would get you! Some proper killing, that’s what! If only we could blow up anyone who crossed us and could issue a godly death warrent or two, then you damned homosexual, godless monsters wouldn’t dare disrespect the religion of love! Yeah, that would be sweeeeet!”
#49 ‘Hmmm. Seems they’d recognize a good thing when they see it. It was the willingness of a few Christians to willingly face the lions with a smile on their face that brought the Romans around to eventually embrace Christianity. It’s hard to be mad at those who provide good entertainment.’
I heard recently, on a BBC programme, that Christians being fed to the lions is merely popular mythology. Unfortunately. Had it happened, maybe there would be more lions these days, and less Christians, a situation which would be a win/win as far as I am concerned.
Still, I am happy to propose that we give truth to this popular myth. In the most accurate terms possible. I volunteer to round up the lions. They are far less crazy.
@77
Gregory, did you ever watch “Jesus Camp” where you have little kids being taught to shout, “I am willing to die in the name of Jesus”? How far away are those folks from thinking suicide bombing is a good idea, do you think?
The first people persecuted by Christians after they became the official religion of Rome were other Christians. This was right after Constantine.
Not the remaining classical Pagans who they figured would come around eventually and not the Jews right away either.
It was all about whether Christ had the same nature as God the Father or only a similar nature.
Re: “How far away are those folks from thinking suicide bombing is a good idea, do you think?”
Never will happen, despite their oft-voiced desire to be raptured away from this miserable world to be with Jesus in heaven–the typical fundamentalist fears death more than anything.
Most would opt out for the Eric Rudolph method of bomb and flee. Failing that, like Tiller’s murderer, they play the martyr before the courts.
political/religious extremism 105 : how to publicize :
1: take greatest possible offense at the least possible insult or provocation.
If they who you designate as your enemy sneeze, claim they are attempting to wipe you out by biological warfare and demand an apology.
2: there is an old axiom that says “you are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.”
For you this is not true. If the facts do not match your needs, the facts must be edited so as to fit into your scheme of things.
I’m sure the Mormons will be accepted into the club once they’ve proved they hate gays enough.
The early Christians considered theological arguments like that worth killing for. Karen Armstrong assures us they were talking about a metaphor for an indescribable transcendence. Apparently, it’s very important to get the metaphor exactly right.
It seems pretty clear that when an organization with rather loose and vague affiliations blatantly and with pomposity have to make up lies and distortions to plead sympathy and bleat intolerance against them…they are losing the debate fully comprehensively and badly.
The rest of the nonsense is just playing martyr..a favourite xian pursuit to pretend to be like jeebus… cos the secular world are nasty and frightful to their sky daddy!
Fucking retards!
A third one should be added: persecution of Christians by Christians. After all, it’s what most of the Inquisition and witch-hunting was about, on top of cleansing the heretics before the bishops of Rome and Constantinople stopped sharing their toys in 1054.
Speaking of those poor persecuted Christians, my children just received a book written by their grandfather, a fundie pastor: ‘Glory in Tribulations – Suffering in the Life of the Believer’ (sorry to repeat this from another thread, but it bears repeating).
This was for xmas presents for teenagers!!! WTF?
It’s chockful of bible verses, and rants about ‘our fallen world’. This man would come to our house, and search in the back of the cupboards to find that one cracked coffee mug, or the stained dog towel for himself. Spare me.
#87
Some xians have an awesome guilt complex, maybe cos they know that being a true xian is an abomination on earth.
Poor bunnies!…damned if they do…damned if they don’t!
You mean this one? I noticed there is a (dare I say “pharyngulatable”?) comment system.
SQB, you forgot to put a URL in your link.
FTFY
I was pretty sure I had, but it seems not to be the case. So here, finally, is the link to Glory in Tribulations (unless URL’s I post are automatically cleaned).
That is no excuse. A True Christian would have held the Shift button down, as a true martyr for Christ.
I often wish I had a time machine, just so I could send all of these poor persecuted christians back in time to Rome under the Emperor Nero, let them experience real persecution for once. I think many of them would stop crying about persecution after Nero had several of them tied to poles and set on fire in order to serve as street lights at night.
@ema:
Thanks for that, I was going to mention that.
It’s funny how the list ignores the planned assassination of a Christian usher, in a Christian church, during a Christian service. That’s heinous! That’s even more evil than some crazy nutjob killing a… oh, wait, haha.
He was a late-term abortion doctor. Well, guess that’s a good thing in the mind of Christians. Chalk one up for team YHWH! Get that baby-killer!
That just sickens me.
#95
Explains quite graphically the projection that seemingly is the xian default state.
They lose and forget automatically all morals when jeebus is being promoted…or when they think they are promoting jeebus…deep down this does tickle the deluded with slight unease…easy fix though, divert the attention and claim often and loudly time and time again that Atheism is the devil incarnate because it lacks any morality whatsoever because they have no ‘bahbi jeebus’ to get all unnecessary over!
Irony has never been an understood trait in xian circles..it makes them very uncomfortable!
@81 – I hope you’re right. I have to admit my concern when I hear crap like:
(empasis added and quote grabbed from IMDb to make sure I got it right).
@Strangest Brew (96):
You can so easily forget how much you can hurt people and how important it is to preach the word as a Christian that the only thing that matters is that Jesus is represented.
I’ve mentioned it a few times already, but of all the things I’ve done ‘in the name of Jesus’ the one that will stand out forever in my mind that I will never forgive myself for (unless I can talk to her again) was related to a lesbian girl I knew when I was younger.
I was promoting Jesus by telling her that her homosexuality was sin, and that if she didn’t repent she’d go to hell. I was so pushy that I made her cry. I don’t think I’ve ever made anyone cry like that, and it is hanging on my heart and mind forever as a huge black spot.
That’s not a big issue, but other Christians have done much, much worse, and it scares me what they might be capable of.
Maybe not trivial, but definitely no great tragedy either!
Usually it is the ‘concerned xians’ who are the killers, and they seem to consider their killings as fully justified.
And watchdog, although I agree with your sentiment, emperor Nero’s reputation was subjected to gross distortion by the xian church, and should be treated like the rest of the xian warped view of reality.
Kevin
“I was promoting Jesus by telling her that her homosexuality was sin, and that if she didn’t repent she’d go to hell. I was so pushy that I made her cry. I don’t think I’ve ever made anyone cry like that, and it is hanging on my heart and mind forever as a huge black spot”
Lets hope that those stupid wankers who went to Uganda spitting their homophobic religious bile, feel similarly, when people are put to death for the “sin” of being gay, down to their fatuous unthinking preaching.
Now, Lions really are too good for them!
Reminder to Christians: We nonbelievers are all going to hell. Still, you bitch, bitch, bitch…
Persecuted by Jebus
#98
Thing is Kev you realise that now with hindsight.
And realisation is, or can be, very sobering and very uncomfortable.
But you seen now the harm that can be done.
And have the honesty and integrity to admit that.
I applaud you, not because I am an atheist but because I am a human being…(despite what certain RC theologians like to promote and boast about)
But what is truly abhorrent is that many enthusiastic evangelistic bent xians NEVER realise the damage and shear grief guilt and fear they liberally spread around in the name of jeebus.
Or maybe they do…point is they feel vindicated, and therefore forgiven, for the real mental anguish and shear damage they cause because they think they are on the jeebus list of the righteous to enter some xian mythical paradise.
They seem to be wanting to collect the xian equivalent of ‘brownie points’.
And any means to that end they feel legitimate, they are spouting drivel for salvation because that is a very real fear they have, not getting some elusive and totally bogus state of grace, any fear they engender into others seems to diminish for a while any fear the xian feels.
Again classic projection…or in some cases classic bitterness…”I am unhappy…so you must be unhappy to share my load.”
What they did in California in Prop 8 is beyond forgiveness of either supernatural or natural consciousness.
And they do not twitch a whisker, they do not even realise the bigotry they used was immoral far beyond the projected immorality of the private preferences of gay folks, and that is also beyond sad.
I do appreciate that everyone has their rights to believe some dubious supernatural story…fine! But it is not fine to force their hangups and dogmatic insistence on folks that do not share their commitment to a fantasy.
And what exacerbates the ill will is that they then make up and distort reality to claim persecution and intolerance to their delusions.
And other folks believe them.
Bit like the bully in kindergarten meeting the stronger one, and crying cos he got that which he dishes out so liberally that he thinks it becomes his sole right…and he gets all pouty,
and makes up stories to teacher about how innocent and picked on he was!
Fundie Death Cult xians think Orwell’s 1984 wasn’t a novel but an instruction manual.
They are big fans of doublethink and doublespeak. As well as Lewis Carroll. Words mean whatever they want them to mean.
Xian persecution = not allowed to hunt down and kill witches
xian persecution = not allowed to hunt down and kill heretics
xian persecution = not allowed to fight wars with other sects especially the Catholics
xian persecution = not allowed to stone to death disobedient children, shellfish eaters, farmers who sow two different types in the same field, or sell their extra kids as sex slaves.
xian persecution = not allowed to fight wars with the 4.7 billion heathens, pagans and false believers in the world
xian persecution = being forced to live in a secular democracy that lets PZ Myers types run around loose
At 76% of the population, they are certainly in danger of even more persecution
Yes, of course. Because xians are a persecuted minority of only 76% of the population and prone to violence and murder.
“Nice brain case you have there. Wouldn’t want anything to happen to it, if you know what I mean.”
I wonder if they have the charming xian ritual of human child sacrifice on the list.
The number of xian children sacrificed every year by medical neglect isn’t well known but the lowest estimates are 10 and it could be as high as a hundred.
They are rarely prosecuted and convicted and the usual penalties are minor.
They seem to think that their “freedom of religion” includes good old Biblical acts like stoning.
Considering that about 75% of Americans identify as Christians, it shouldn’t be surprising at all that several of them show up on this list. There are also some men who were murdered, but that doesn’t mean it’s persecution against men, and there are fewer men than Christians in this country.
#103
“At 76% of the population, they are certainly in danger of even more persecution”
But seemingly, and at the same time, 99% more paranoid!
Wonder why that might be?
They know damned well they are skating on the thinnest of ices in the 21st century,
They, well at least the ones with what brains they managed to keep intact, realise that the ‘god of gaps’ scenario is contracting the available gaps year on year and at an alarming rate.
And that, I guess, could well create a bit of a kafuffle in moderate xianity within the next few years, they are running out of the very gaps they so love to stash their deity in and it is really becoming a crisis of where do they stash their dodgy contraband deity now?
I think that the seemingly recent upsurge in panic amongst the ‘faithful’ with regards laws and proclamations and the rest, is their hysterically freaked out ego experiencing the last huzzah of ridiculousness personified.
But the downside might be the more ridiculous their claims become through panic, the more desperate, and therefore dangerous, they end up!
These fuckers kill for jeebus with no compunction.
Might be well to remember that by default, xianity does not, and of itself, equal rationality.
Well, there’s very little data on this story because the original article doesn’t give any sources or identifying details. However, they are most likely referring to a case where a group of students prayed during lunchtime, but when the bell rang, they stayed put and continued praying instead of going to their classes. During their lunch period, nobody tried to stop them from praying. The teachers’s only “persecution” was expecting them to go to their scheduled classes.
As for the murder of the anti-abortion protester, that certainly can’t be about persecution of Christians, since the Bible says very little about abortion except to imply that it’s not murder. Also, I find it surprising that the murder of the Christian Dr. Tiller inside his own church was included on this list.
CanonicalKoi @ 79;
I never actually saw that, but it sounds absolutely terrifying. Creobots are actually trying to create their own legion of child soldiers? Whenever I think that they can sink no lower, the fundies always manage to prove me wrong.
I have often said that the only significant difference between Al Qaeda and Xian fundies is a disparity in firepower. This would appear to confirm that suspicion.
Religious fanatics are all the same.
The main difference between xian and moslem fanatics is simple. We don’t let ours run around loose anymore.
One of the defining characteristics of modern civilized societies is not letting religious kooks run around doing whatever they want. It’s been a long road from stoning shellfish eaters to death, through the witch hunts, to modern society. That is why fundies hate contemporary civilization. They were born many centuries too late.
The witch-hunters provided an important service. They made sure the little boys and girls got safely to the priest’s house for the special private lessons.
Nowadays, since women aren’t roasted anymore, the mothers are objecting to the long and honourable tradition of the priest’s special private lessons, and keeping the children at home. They’s aren’t going to hte priest’s house. This is causing a decline in the number of priests, since one of the holiest perks is now hard to obtain.
Raven @ 111;
The thing that scares me is that so many fundies (some of whom are not without wealth, power and political influence) are hell-trope-bent on proving that the aforementioned, metephorical road is not a one way street.
Hopefully they are wrong, but if I were a betting man I am not entirely sure I would like the odds on that one. While fully blown and self-confessed witch hunts and Crusades may indeed be yesterday’s news, we could easily see a return of lynchings, entrenched privilige based on gender, race, sexual orientation or assignment, and nominally secular laws that are in effect theocratic in nature.
We already live in a society where all too many people lustily embrace the meme that different = bad. Those of a sufficiently cunning and ruthless bent can easily exploit that fear.
OMG SQB – that is the book!!!
And if you notice, the author, William Burnside, has a PhD. Ironically, that is in history, and he doesn’t believe that dinosaurs existed. God created the earth complete with fossils to test our faith.
I hope you don’t mind me digging up that link. Also, I noticed someone left a comment calling it BS, but that was removed.
Not at all, SQB. Many of my Australian friends and relatives think that I make this rabid christian stuff up about my ex in-laws, just in a joking way. Great to actually have teh interwebs evidence.
It seems to be the target of some kind of counter-pharyngulization. 7 Comments now, all within a couple of days, all (sickeningly) positive.