I had no idea they were so progressive! If my local churches had religious services like this I’d be going three times a week. Scandinavian languages are all so pretty to listen to, anyway (don’t worry, the link has English subtitles).
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
And could Magnus be any cuter!
And could Magnus be any cuter!
Sure… he could’ve let his horns, forked tail, and blood stained trident (the one he uses for spearing babies at the weekly midnight babybq) show, rather than keeping ’em hidden.
Kids at home, can you say “cognitive dissonance”?
Magnus Betnér rules and many Christians acknowledge that. But it looks like many in the audience were not comfortable enough to laugh.
It’s that you think Scandinavian languages sound nice. I never before reflected on the fact that it has a certain sound, since I can’t really hear it. But it is of course true that all languages have different melodies that are very characteristic.
Can you imagine doing that routine in an evangelical church in the US?
They will go to any lengths to keep people coming.
No sacrifice is too great for The One Truth.
The laughter in the congregation was ‘strained’ at best.
There were some distinctly non-smiling faces.
Xians are no better at facing their delusions/illusions than are racists…
How very refreshing! And he’s adorable! (I’d take him home to mother… and other places)
Now, had he said these things in the church I grew up in he would have been dragged out, beaten to death and then burned.
I laughed out loud at least six times…
I’m glad our churches are being used for something productive for once.
Hope he does one big act inside the sistine chapel. Would be so cool! bet it would have more tv coverage than the Oscars plus superbowl put together.
With commetcials like: “have a brain? so you are an atheist!” hehe
That makes me happy to depths of which I was not aware!
Wow, talk about a “tough room”.
[inkling]
Very nice.
On the subject of the sounds of languages, the Swedes do enjoy mocking the way us Danes sound. I have no idea if Americans would share that opinion, however… Oh well.
Did you see the video on octopuses hatching from their eggs?
The astrophysicist wisecracking about “stupid design”?
I had a problem deciding how to bookmark wimp.com — finally put it in my Entertainment folder.
Why is it that so many people spell “atheist” wrong?
Too bad he misrepresented the issue of religious gay marriage.
Religious denominations that already recognize gay unions want the state to allow their parishioners full marriage rights.
Gay folks don’t want to get married in denominations that abhor their existence.
This is obvious to anyone who thinks about it, but maybe this guy only reads headlines.
In college (U of Illinois @ Champaign/Urbana) I recall watching a showing of “Body Heat” in a church one night. It did seem a little awkward though.
I don’t know if it was raising money for the church, or if their thinking was that get the kids in the door any way you can and maybe they’ll come back on Sunday.
erk: I think that was his point exactly. Why would you force someone that doesn’t want to be at your wedding ceremony to be there? Why would you want to force churches to allow a certain wedding ceremony against their will? If the a certain denomination is homophobic or racist, why would *anyone* want them to have anything to do with your declaration of love?
You’d think that a wedding of all things is something you’d want to have somewhere where everyone is ready to celebrate your love. I thought that was the point.
Note what he says about Baptists being fairly moderate. I always had the same impression in England; they were pretty much Methodists with a swimming pool. I’m always surprised when I hear about the wing-nuttery of American Baptists.
Presbyterians are the reverse, I think. Frequently nuts in the UK, harmless moderates in the US.
“Why is it that so many people spell “atheist” wrong?”
For the same reason they spell “Michael” wrong; “-iest” and “-eal” are so much more common than the right versions that muscle memory or something kicks in.
This was a laugh! Magnus is fun! Also, kudos to the translator, I think the subtitles did a very good job of conveying the ‘dryness’ and sarcasm. I hope you non-swedish speaking lot enjoyed this as much as me!
Well not everybody was happy with this. Few “holy men” were, for example.
Here’s what the one memberof the Swedish press said (in Swedish):
http://www.dagen.se/dagen/Article.aspx?ID=157716
To quote one priest: “Its quite OK to joke with us as Christians, but not about what is holy in our faith”.
Tolerant religious Swedish people..? I don’t really see it.
Am I the only one who’s wondering what possessed the pastor to invite him to speak in the first place? He looks a little embarrassed at some of the jokes, which seem to be hitting hard. I’d like to see the rest of the stand-up, too. Is that available anywhere?
It’s possible that Jesus may have invented Christianity, but there’s no doubt that it was Paul who franchised it and made sure there was an outlet next to every Starbuck’s.
There is another* rather good video on that site:
http://www.wimp.com/intelligentdesign/
* several actually – for pure entertainment watch this one…
http://www.wimp.com/violinistlive/
Very forward thinking on the part of the church; the audacity was witty, but I found the performance so dry and obvious as to be dusty. Great link; I find that Christian dude who specializes in Church standup here in the US much funnier (whilst being an apologist). Brad Stine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjpjVWWxbZA
Betnér rocks, although this is the Missionary church. I.e. not that progressive. As a matter of fact the pastor threatened to report him and it made a headline in Sweden’s biggest newspaper (link below). If you want to see a progressive church, then check out the official “Church of Sweden” of whose members 10% are atheists (according to the church’s own newspaper) and counts gays and agnostics among it’s clergy.
Link here:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/article3338296.ab
…and translation (google translate) here:
Magnus Betnérs Bible-jokes in the church made Pastor Berndt Isaksson see red.
Now he notifies the event.
– This is a really serious crime, “he says.
In the premiere episode of his controversial humor program “In your face” visited Magnus Betnér, 34, Methodist St Jakob in Gothenburg.
He ran hard with both Jesus and the Bible before the Assembly.
Became angry
Berndt Isaksson, who is a metodistpastor from Vetlanda, became enraged when he saw the program and spoke in harsh terms in the Christian newspaper Dagen.
– Running with these things is blasphemy. Our Savior violated in a holy kyrkorum, I have never seen anything like it, “he told Aftonbladet.
He said that he should notify the incident to Øystein Olsen, bishop of the Methodist in northern Europe.
Magnus Betnér question Berndt Isaksson on his blog:
“It is well in that case his God who decides what is blasphemous and not?”
“Twelve men in dresses”
Berndt Isaksson gives comedian response to speech:
– What would be blasphemy if not this? To call most of the Bible for dung. And the production of Jesus as a whoremaster with lots of sexual contact in which he spread venereal diseases and then clamping dashing healed them. And as a gay PROMISCUOUS person as he is surrounded by twelve men in dresses, “he says.
I am trying to imagine Bill Hicks doing his routine in a church. It keeps ending with a bonfire.
I liked Mangus’ bit about Paul killing off the Christian leaders and then taking the top spot himself. Never thought of it that way. Funny.
Quidam @ 24:
That was fabulous.
“Who would put an entertainment complex in the middle of a sewage system? No engineer would design that!”
I’m embarrassed by how hard it is for me to understand the Swedish. And Swedes say that Danish is muddled.
It’s a miracle we understand ourselves!
What does “Sweden’s Joel Osteen” mean? Who is Joel Osteen?
(Runs off and finds out)
Ah, some American godbotherer. Doesn’t translate into English.
Joel Osteen is a toothy evangelist with a Barney the Dinosaur outlook. His wife is a pampered over-processed hair teased-to-Christian-Fundy-specifications blonde who was accused of misconduct by a flight attendant involving “Do you know who I am” threats and other boorish behavior. The complaint was dropped eventually after several well-heeled members of Osteen’s church put the attendants feet to the fire.
The Osteens have private jets and several abodes, and evidently, quite a few sheep shears.
Janine@28:
The bits Magnus asid about Paul are really very provocative, enough to be a real faith destroyer.
erk:
I think you may be treating Magnus’s comments about gays as if he were speaking in the USA, rather than Sweden. It’s a different situation there.
erk, are you Swedish, so you can say this for sure? Because it’s not at all clear that US and Swedish gay rights campaigns would be identical.
Here in Aus, I do know people who want gay marriage to be recognised in their own church. One is actually a deacon in a very liberal Anglican church that I’m musically connected with. It’s church politics, not state or federal politics. But these people certainly exist.
I think this was a part of a TV-show he did, where the object was to have Magnus do stand-up shows in front of the very people he’s mocking. Title of the show was “In Your Face” or something like that :)
I don’t see this as very odd, actually. Us Swedes care very little about religion in general. Most of us are basically born into the Swedish Church, and keep paying for funeral services and marriages through taxes, regardless of personal belief. There’s no real separation of church and state here, but it doesn’t matter since we’re democratic enough to not let our church rule anyway. Out of 7 parties in our coalition government, only one has any religious affiliations at all. They were actually recently voted down by the other 6 parties on the matter of gay marriage.
The church as an institution in Nordic countries is somewhat different from that in the US. We have something very much akin to a state church, and so one actually does want marriage rights within a church that doesn’t want to grant them, ie the national church [Svenska kyrkan in Sweden with its membership of circa 8+mil / 78,3% of population (source Wikipedia)]. I can’t from the top of my head remember what the situation with the Swedish church vis-à-vis gay marriage is, but I would imagine that it is not without problems. One should also remember that many members are in fact atheists or apatheists, and only remain within the church because of the transitional rites ceremonies (marriage/baptism/funeral).
As an aside it was surprisingly difficult to follow that video. He used quite a lot of colloquialisms I wasn’t familiar with (My swedish sucks anyways, so that was to be expected, I suppose.) and to get my brain to accept english subtitles with the cultural connotations (names etc.) translated to American equivalents took some effort.
…
I just read what I had written, and I sound like a pretentious ass. Apologies, but I don’t have the energy to edit. Sleepytime here now – it’s already 02:30.
Not “the” pastor, “a” pastor, of a different church. You are giving the impression that the pastor of this church complained, which is not the case.
It’s likely that the number is higher (significantly higher if you count agnostics+atheists), if 75% of the population are still church members and by most estimates the majority of Swedes are unbelievers. But that has more to do with infant baptism and custom than atheists being somehow attracted to the progressive church.
Janine is right about the Paul comments.
If you don’t like it, tough.
lovely women
“Let’s hear it for Magnus! C’mon everyone, give him a big hand.
Now, as you may have heard, our regular choir isn’t here today, but we’ve lined up a special treat that we think you’ll really like. Brothers and sisters, put your hands together for Opeth!”
I love the Swedes. I spent about two months there building a rammed earth house. I learned how great their culture and life style really are. We all could learn from the good folks of Scandinavia.
It was very slow loading, but well worth it, I think. He certainly got a few surprised chuckles out of me.
I wonder if anyone in the audience resolved to never say “Sweet Jesus!” again.
Ah, Magnus Betnér is quite fun, even when his stand up is hamstrung by the near impossible demand of being nice to all of his audience. But I didn’t know he had done this, it was a pleasant surprise.
I’m not sure how to make any sense out of this – as Frost notes, the current legislation makes couples want to have marriage within the (former) state church, for economical and practical reasons. (Separation state vs the former state church as late as year 2000, cf Wikipedia.) The substitute open for all, partnership, demands actions from the couples that happens automatically under marriage but is still not equivalent in all circumstances. (Both partners must have Swedish connections; underage children may in some cases marry, but can’t register partnership.)
I’m pretty sure Betnér speaks to this, as this spring there is a renewed attempt to achieve equal marriage rights for everyone. The state wants the Church of Sweden (the former state church) to accept gay marriage as some sort of after-the-separation obligation, while the churches quite correctly notes that this now goes against religious freedom.
A proposed solution, by the Christ Democrats I believe, is to let the state take care of the legal procedure, while the churches won’t declare a marriage under any subsequent rituals. (I believe they will satisfy themselves with declaring that they are observing “a wedding ceremony” or something such.)
[It’s quite ridiculous of the churches saying that if gays may be married in a friendly church, no one will be married in a church. But who cares.]
In any case the suggested law will permit gender neutral marriages, however the churches choose to handle it (or not).
Patricia@38 said:
I think that Magnus was spot on with just about everything he said; especially the Paul comments, which Janine commented on favourably. No argument there. I stand by the claim that the Paul comments are real faith destroyers: the whole idea of ignoring the Torah while worshipping the same god, and the idea of redemption by faith rather than works comes from him – if you don’t accept Paul (and I don’t) there is not a lot left of Christianity.
This was precisely the issue that led to the religious scales falling from my eyes, so to speak. I had no intention of implying that I didn’t like it, so I apolgogise for not being clearer. I simply meant that it is a very powerful argument, once you realise how important Paul is to the Christian enterprise.
are you a professor ?
do you enjoy cheap jokes ?
do you teach it ?
Heh, I mostly listened (rather than watching), but I noticed that they translated “Sverigedemokraterna”, one of the biggest parties outside the parliament, as “KKK”. Interestingly, depending on your views, they might actually get there in the next election. They ARE usually seen as racist (if not worse), but I’m not sure KKK is the right translation. More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverigedemokraterna
Thanks for the male equivalent of that very cute, green eyed atheist chick posted a few months ago.
Brains, body, both indeed (thanks George Hrab!)
Now if only Penn and Teller would add some men to their endless parade of topless women on their show.
It was a little disturbing how uncomfortable all those folks were.
LOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDD IT!
MARCUS IS DEFINITELY CUTE!
It is quite interesting to me that he comes from a fairly moderate (in Sweden) Christian background, which in the U.S. is associated with some very conservative folks. The Mission Church, here in America, is among the most conservative of Christian denominations.
I wonder if the Church of Sweden is doing much for breeding active atheism. I suspect not. There are lots of functional atheists who are officially part of the Church of Sweden. Liberalism has the disadvantage that it doesn’t give one much to react against, and clearly Magnus is against the kind of empty headed conservatism that Methodists and Pentacostals represent in Sweden.
Some people want to change how their own denominations work! Horrors, that’s never happened before in history. And these little tyrants, who want their denominations to come together and vote on their own bylaws, are violating religious freedom just like if they were making the government force churches against their will to marry gays.
You are making no sense, and your interpretation does not save what Betnér said: “I don’t think homosexuals have a right to get married in church.” If he’s talking about what you think, then he’s saying people don’t even have the right to agitate for changes within their own denominations. That’s actually a much less charitable interpretation than my own, that he is just speaking irresponsibly about a topic he hasn’t really researched.
If the churches are granted special civil authority as they are in Sweden, having the ability to bestow state-recognized marriage, then they part of the bargain is that they must accept the state’s regulation of the special authority they’ve had bestowed upon them. This is not a violation of religious freedom. The churches are perfectly free to give up their special civil authority if they find the accompanying responsibilities too heavy to bear.
“The new law would allow church weddings, though clergy can opt out of performing gay ceremonies.”
So no one is being forced to do anything.
erk, you do know it is supposed to be an in your face comedy routine not a philosophical or political treatise. Though admittedly, much comedy can often fulfil those roles when sections of society or the state makes it difficult to say such things openly. Do you deconstruct all comic routines so seriously :)
A person is not excused from doing their research before public speaking just because it’s comedy. Comedy is serious and important to the evolution of a society, and good comedians take their jobs seriously. It is insulting to their craft and their dedication to imply that what they say does not matter. The impact of comedy on politics can be empirically measured.
The anti-gay conservative reactionaries have made incredible gains (see Proposition 8) by spreading the lie that gay people want government to force churches to change their backwards ways. One of their goals is to spread this lie by any means necessary. It is no less effective coming from the mouth of a comedian; people are amiably disposed toward comedians so it may be more effective. It is certainly more effective when the lie is spread by an otherwise pro-gay speaker who is misinformed; such a speaker seems more credible than an anti-gay speaker by virtue of their intentions.
I’m not saying his whole routine is ruined because of this oversight. All I said was “Too bad he misrepresented the issue of religious gay marriage.” It would have been better if he did not.
ERK — are you Swedish, perchance? Have you done your research of Swedish laws?
If not, do you not think that something may have been lost in the translation?
erk, don’t be such a twit. This article you quoted:
“The new law would allow church weddings, though clergy can opt out of performing gay ceremonies.”
is about a law that was proposed THIS year so it’s not a surprise that Magnus did not discuss this exact solution during a show that was filmed LAST year! It was not then obvious what sort of legal compromise the government would come up with. It’s all very well to say “churches are perfectly free to give up their special civil authority” but this ignores the elephant in the room (Church of Sweden) that would not prefer to do so.
You wrote:
That makes no sense for him to bring up. NO ONE WANTS TO GET MARRIED IN A DENOMINATION THAT ABHORS THEIR EXISTENCE. So there’s no reason for him to say “yeah I don’t think you have a right to do that,” because already no one wants to and no one is trying to.
No, but some gays will want to be married in the Church of Sweden which does not “abhor their existence” but does not want to call gay marriage “marriage”. It’s not as simple as you make it out to be.
And you’ll see that I was responding to Torbjörn Larsson, who was talking about “the suggested law” proposed this year.
No, I’m speaking directly to the elephant. The CoS has been granted a special civil privilege, at the whim of the people, and along with that offer come certain obligations. The CoS is free to turn down the offer. No one is being forced to do anything; they have a choice. They’re whining about religious freedom when no such freedom is being violated: the issue is only civil marriage and the church’s provisional privilege to grant such marriage. And everyone is hearing “religious freedom” and reacting to that cry without examining whether it applies.
It is simple. Naturally some people want to change their own denominations’ outlook; that sums up the entirety of religious history. But if through internal church politics they change their church’s stance to no longer abhor gays, or to no longer discriminate in marriage, then once again they’re not forcing anything, are they. What’s missing is government coercion. And if you’re arguing that internal church politics is what Betnér’s talking about, then you’re saying he thinks gay people don’t even have the right to agitate for change within their own churches. That’s outrageous, and I hope he’s not that rigid.
Hi everybody!
Really glad so many of you enjoyed this clip. Just wanted to let you know that i have a blog where i write about my gigs in english (I’m currently in New York to do comedy) and you find it at http://betner.blogspot.com
More clips of me doing comedy about God and other stuff is found at http://www.youtube.com/betner2
Again, really glad so many enjoyed this. Thank you!