What happens when you put two of the dumbest right-wing pundits together on the air? Madness.
On the July 23 edition of CNN Headline News’ Glenn Beck, guest Ben Stein, while discussing Sen. Barack Obama’s plan to deliver his speech accepting the Democratic presidential nomination at Denver’s Invesco Field, stated that he did not “like the idea of Senator Obama giving his acceptance speech in front of 75,000 wildly cheering people” because “[t]hat is not the way we do things in political parties in the United States of America.” Stein continued: “Seventy-five-thousand people at an outdoor sports palace, well, that’s something the Fuehrer would have done. And I think whoever is advising Senator Obama to do this is bringing up all kinds of very unfortunate images from the past.”
Beck then went on to suggest that Obama was like Mussolini.
No, sir, this is a democracy. We can’t go off electin’ people who are popular!
Is there no way we could ship that silly S.O.B off to some planet about 4000 light years away. He is to stupid to even exist
Oooh, goody! Glen must be sleeping! I get first comment.
I’m glad that they are conflating Obama with Hitler, it should take the sting out of the whole muslim thing and confuse the hell out of the faithfull.
as a german i cann tell u this obamania is totally annoying – my fellow germans support obama only because of his skin color. this is – strictly speaking – pure racism.
i happen to support him but because he is not republican.
Obama is getting an enthusiastic welcome and lots of favourable media coverage in Europe during his current overseas tour. Keep it quiet. ;-)
Haha, yeah I agree. I found a Mussolini clip from the Young Ones yesterday when I saw that: Ben Stein needs to STFU!
But PZ, you must remember, Republicans prefer their presidents to get jeered and pelted by rotten vegetables during their inauguration….
Maybe it would of been more democratic for Obama to deliver the speech in a small room of hand picked supporters?
Its Alzheimers.
The only category he can think of is Hitler,whether its Darwin,Atheists,his mother,Obama,or whatever,its always Hitler with B.S.
Don’t these guys ever THINK before opening their mouths?
Oh, wait — Stein’s brain was surgically removed before making “that movie”. I guess that explains his lack of critical thinking skills.
I don’t know what Beck’s problem is, other than being a right-wing shill who knows where his bread is buttered.
Yep, that kind of speech should be made in a smoke-filled back room attended by the 12 rich old white guys that made the decision to elect him in the first place.
Comparing a man giving a speech in front of 75,000 screaming fans to Hitler or Mussolini…
They arranged larger crowds. And worked mostly outdoors.
the claim that people are supporting Obama because of his skin color is absurd. He is a gifted speaker, and he is offering a message that resonates in the times. My god, I can’t bear to watch the current President speak at all – his inability to make the slightest sense grates on my nerves. Once you realize that the boss is an idiot, there is no going back. Meanwhile, McCain does not inspire, does not thrill, and has no passionate core. He states his positions as if he is receiting a shopping list, and so he doesn’t excite even his own supporters.
Obama becoming President will be a huge step for America, one that it will not take altogether willingly of course, as it has not taken to equality for all races willingly at any time in it’s history. That is the whole point, that is why it’s exciting to see happening, but make no mistake, if Obama seemed to be even slightly less than intellectually gifted, he would not have come 10% this far. I would never give him the benefit of the doubt because he is black. I accept him because he is, as far as I’m concerned, more than up to the job.
PZ, it’s spelled “Führer” not “Fuehrer” auf Deutsch. Not that I’m advocating the use of that word.
Ben Stein is an idiot for making such a petty and hateful sentiment.
Well, I for one think it’s about time we had a black Hitler. I expect him to clean up the mess of the previous honky administration.
Keith, the -e- is accepted for when it’s inconvenient to type/display the umlaut.
Fuehrer is an acceptable spelling when your keyboard doesn’t include umlauts.
Sorry, forgot to add one more thing.
Does EVERYTHING remind Stein of the Nazis? I mean, really, is he unable to think of anything else?
I wish he’d speak up about something like the situation in Darfur. But I guess other genocides don’t remind him of the Holocaust, just liberals and their crazy ideas. Funny that.
Guess I’m behind the times.
I’m not a hardcore Obama supporter (infinitely more then McCain though) but…what the flux, Stein? Seriously?
He has a serious Reich obsession going on. Every time I see the guy on TV he’s comparing something or someone to Hitler or Nazis in general.
Isn’t McCain going to be at the Xcel center for the RNC? I’ve seen plenty of hockey games there, something of a ‘sports palace’ too, dontcha’ think?
Well, I guess that makes Expelled’s attempt to draw a Nazi connection less offensive. Apparently Ben Stein compares anyone he’s currently talking about to Nazis. I’m not sure he even has to dislike them.
Someone should tell him that Godwin’s Law is descriptive, not prescriptive.
Hitler was a religious conservative who was against abortion and gay rights. Hitler confused loyalty to him and his party with loyalty to the country. Hitler had an organization that spied on his own people. How does that sound like Obama?
Of course Glen, Joseph Smith, Beck can’t stand Obama. It’s only been a few decades since the Mormons decided blacks are kind of ok to be accepted as equals in the after life, Maybe someones planet needs to be cleaned, ask Glen… Just look at his real values and is it what the Mormon church tells (pays) him to say or… is he just another Donny and Marie act?
Oh, right. Make a big ol’ mess, then hire a black guy to be the janitor.
/humor?
Ben Stein – a walking talking Godwin’s law…
Yeuch. Really, now that utf-8 is pretty well ubiquitous, we should abandon horrible hacks like writing “aa” for å and “ue” for ü and learn to use the compose key.
I’m still wondering what a Senator can do as President that he wouldn’t do as a Senator.
Aside from forget his voting record.
If the only name you can think of is “George Bush”, I guess it’s natural to miss the very existence of Congress, and the Constitutional duties they have.
I’m tired of people who think the President is either the cause or solution to all their problems.
More of the same rovian BS. Smear, smear smear. Is that supposed to be a great reason to support McSame?
“Well, unlike Hussein Osama, Noble John McAmericanHero can’t get even 10k people together at the same time and place, can’t keep his facts straight, and is a foul-tempered knee jerk puppet. QED, JM for El Jefe II.”
Radwaste at 26,
Well, if you aren’t aware of the powers invested into the position of president, you should do a bit of research.
Here’s a couple reasons the post is so much more powerful than being a senator:
The president can issue rules, regulations, and instructions called executive orders, which have the binding force of law upon federal agencies but do not require congressional approval. As Commander in Chief of the armed forces of the United States, the president may also call into federal service the state units of the National Guard. Please note that these powers have been greatly expanded. Currently he or she can basically declare war at will.
The president can veto any Act of Congress.
The president has the power to nominate federal judges, including members of the Supreme Court.
The president is the federal official primarily responsible for the relations of the United States with foreign nations. The president appoints ambassadors, ministers, and consuls.
And etc. etc.
No, he’s not an all powerful being, but if you think those kind of powers don’t matter, you’re crazier than Ben Stein on acid.
Has Ben Stein made any comment yet on the former president of Baylor University, John M. Lilley, who was recently EXPELLED?
That’s a very broad statement, Radwaste. I don’t think anyone has said that.
I believe that the prez sets a tone, and certainly under the
Imperial EmperorMartial LawUnitary Executive theory, this particular administration has created and/or exacerbated many problems and violated human rights of probably hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions. I think you’d be hard pressed to prove otherwise.Additionally, the prez has an effect on the Judiciary, because he/she/it gets to select SCOTUS candidates (not that the Senate has held any selectees to any standards of competence). Our next prez will have the opportunity to slant the SCOTUS one way or another, and that crowd gets to create legal precedents.
Man, why is Stein continually stuck on the Hitler comparisons these days? Is he always like this?
WAITER: And how is your steak, sir?
STEIN: I ordered medium, and this is medium rare! It’s like something HITLER would cook!!!
Glenn Beck to Production staff: Times are desperate people. We need to pull out the Hitler card to scare our dumb-ass audience back into our corner. Who do we got?
Producer #6: I spoke to Ben Steins agent yesterday and-
Glenn (interrupting): Get him! If I know anybody that can compare anybody or anything to Hitler its Ben Stein. He’s great!
LOL, jynnan tonnyx. Thx.
Our present incumbent hand picks his audiences. Conservatives don’t understand the concept of giving speeches where just anyone can show up.
Sorry but, their lunacy aside, I’ve had about enough of the staged photo op the past 7 years and just because a Democrat is doing it doesn’t change that fact. Obama is nothing but rhetoric and staging and those of you who think his SCOTUS nominees will be any better weren’t paying attention to Obama when Roberts and Alito were confirmed.
But CJ, what about those unstaged photo ops?
Yeah, yeah, nobody is a saviour. Which evil are you voting for? Mister “We have always been at war with Oceania”, or Mister Rainbow Bright?
The argument “Obama isn’t absolutely perfect so I’ll vote for my mother or I won’t vote at all” has a major flaw. There are only two people with a realistic chance of becoming elected. So do you want the incompletely perfect Obama or the quite clearly imperfect McCain to be president?
Haven’t seen much of truth machine this week. I wonder if this thread will be a siren song.
At least Ben’s consistent–as in consistently stupid and untrustworthy:
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/01/farewell-to-ben.html
Medium steak? Mein Gott! I thought vegetarians liked their cows live, though BSE would go along way towards explaining many of Ben’s pronouncements.
I hope no one ate his brain.
they are calling Obama a nazi?!?!?!
Have they LOOKED at Bush’s style of governance?????
And Etha Williams is missing out on all this cracker fun while obsessing with 12 tone Viennese School music – sheesh!
As I’ve pinted out here, what Stein said about things not being done in American politics this way is a big, fat pile of dumb. For instance, Barry Goldwater held a full-fledged rally at Colt .45 Stadium in Houston, TX in 1964 just before the election. The only legitimate difference that could be claimed is that Obama’s event is earlier in the election process than was Goldwater’s, which is hardly enough of a difference to justify comparison to Hitler!
Adolph Hitler and Ben Stein both wear shoes!
Sigh. Neither the first, nor the last, time we’ll hear a Reductio ad Hitlerum argument. I especially liked the McCain commercial with all the chanting. Get a candidate who wants to change typical political BS, and you’ll get a bunch of conservatives asking the tough questions about him… like why he doesn’t wear a lapel pin.
Stein:
LOL.
Alverant #21 – “Hitler was a religious conservative who was against abortion and gay rights. Hitler confused loyalty to him and his party with loyalty to the country. Hitler had an organization that spied on his own people. How does that sound like Obama?”
To make this perfectly clear, I am not in any way saying Obama is anything like Hitler. But when he votes in favour of FISA, you might want to avoid leaving those comparisons open.
He is for the most part pro-choice, but he also had to be talked out of voting to confirm John Roberts to the Supreme Court. He also thinks a woman’s pastor should be included in abortion decisions.
Now this wasn’t from Obama himself, but from Donald Fowler with the DNC – “It is time for all Democrats, supporters of Senator Clinton and all other contenders for the nomination, to stand with him to secure [Obama’s] election and the election of Democrats at all levels of competition.
“I must confess a bit of fatigue and irritation with people who continue to carp, complain, and criticize the results of the primary and lay down conditions for their support. The Los Angeles Lakers didn’t establish conditions to recognize the Boston Celtics as NBA Champions; Roger Federer did not demand concessions before recognizing that Rafael Nadal defeated him at Wimbledon.
“It is time to act in a mature and resourceful fashion. It’s time to put the primaries behind us. It’s time to support Barack Obama without conditions or demands.
“It’s time to WIN for Barack Obama, the Democratic Party, America, and our future. We have an unparalleled opportunity. I hope we will all do everything we can to seize the moment.”
Not exactly “Rah rah democracy!”
Dave Wisker@45,
I think Stein’s giving Obama some useful advice here. Like almost all politicians, Obama obviously has a sizeable ego, however he would be foolhardy to match himself against Olympic-class egotists such as Stein.
@#41, that’s the way rupublicans work (call your opponent something that describes you better and no one will accuse you of it).
Does Ben Stein link EVERYONE he disagrees with to Nazis? If someone bumbs in to him on the street does he starting yelling “You attacked me unprovoked just like Hitler attacked Poland”. If he and his wife disagree does he say “Well I think the Nazis would have agreed with you.” He is almost a walking parody of Godwin’s law.
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard Ben Stein say since, well– since the last time I heard him say anything.
Beck and Stein in the same room together? Sounds like the makings of a black hole of stupid. Throw in a Coulter or O’Reilly, and we’re talkin’ a serious disruption in the space-time continuum…
Beck and Stein; now there’s a pair with double the dementia. Two of a kind; Frick and Frack, anus and rectum, shit and piss, cracker and god, and noodle and nut. Sorry, that is all the doubles I can come up with right now as I think I am going to have a double retch.
“Stein is not the first guest on Glenn Beck to compare Obama to Adolf Hitler.”
Guys, is it that obvious? I just don’t get that ‘genocidal fascist warmonger’ thing from him at all. I haven’t been following his policies too closely, though.
Just plain dumb…
Stein comparing things to nazis sounds like the makings of a good drinking game.
It seems to me Stein only has two modes:
Off< ------------->Godwin
*Sigh*
Remind me never to attempt ASCII art here it supposed to be:
Off———–Godwin
I’m reminded of Jonah Goldberg’s book “Liberal Fascism”, which Dave Neiwart describes as an “I know you are, but what am I?” response to descriptions of the conservative movement as fascistic.
Do not underestimate the power of cognitive dissonance. Also remember that – according to wingnuts – Ahmadinejad is the new Hitler, and there is such a thing as Islamofascism. It’s superficial name calling, designed to evoke negative emotions and attach them to the Enemy, not an intellectual argument.
There’s an even scarier bit a few paragraphs later.
FDR, Hitler, all these guys, they basically said, ‘All your problems can be solved.’
Really, do Americans equate Hitler with one of the best presidents (with Jefferson) you’ve ever had?
True Bob, #23:
Oh dear, I didn’t even see the connotation of my “cleaning up” comment. No racial pun was intended in that regard.
Of all the behaviors, traits, actions, and atrocities associated with Hitler, these two idiots make a connection with “size of audience” and think they have an appropriate comparison?
“He draws large crowds! Holy shit next thing you know he’ll be invading Poland and executing Jews!!!!”
Talk about a non sequitur.
By the way…the Pope also draws large crowds, and he’s not a Naz…er…never mind. :)
Jeremy #62
Coffee ===> monitor.
Well done!
Isn’t that exactly how you do things in the US?
As I commented on another forum when this came up:
When/if Obama has the attendees walk in a kind of “crowd circle” around the camera to create the illusion of a lot more people than there really are, then you have something. *
All political events are, to some degree or another, staged. Compare this to Bush’s post-Katrina press conference after which FEMA packed up all the equipment and left shortly after Bush did. A German news crew remained after all the others had left and caught this one. Lovely.
* [BTW for the history-impaired readers: this is a reference to Leni Riefenstahl and the movie Triumph of the Will. Google it or try Wikipedia].
For Polyester Mather @40:
Look here
Dahan wrote, “Does EVERYTHING remind Stein of the Nazis? I mean, really, is he unable to think of anything else?”
Paging Michael Edmomdson…paging Mr. Michael Edmondson
We need an animation of Stein taking a Rorschach test and everything reminds him of Nazis, Hitler, Dachau, etc.. The test images could start out with ink blots, then progress to pictures of famous fossils, PZ, Dawkins, Eucharist, cookies, Cookies Monster….
Yeah Jeremy #62, I think it will be tough to top that one.
Next thread please!
#17
It’s classic projection. Stein was a propagandist for the Nixon administration which slaughtered about 2 million indochinese civilians during their rampage. He still calls Mein Nixxon one of the greatest presidents.
Once a Herman, always a Goering
Steinhundt at Christo-Fascist Rally
I don’t want to be thought of as supporting the odious Ben Stein, but didn’t Richard Dawkins make a similar analogy to Ted Haggard’s New Life Church in his documentary The Root of All Evil?, comparing it to a Nuremburg Rally?
This week’s Doonesbury is about trying to fill a stadium for McCain.
Ben Stein is specifically mentioned today.
http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html?uc_full_date=20080726
So we get a bit of “sturm und drang” from Beckenstein.
Ironic but unsurprising.
trj @ 60,
Not actually my joke. I saw it the other night on The Daily Show. John Stewart basically gave the same straight line you did.
Jérôme@59, yes, there is indeed a group of wingnuts(?) who blame FDR (and esp., if I recall correctly, The New Deal), for … well, I’ve never actually understood just what they blame him for…
There’s another group (I’ve no idea how much this group overlaps with the previous) who blame FDR for either entering the war in the first place, or else for entering it on the wrong side! Yep, there are a few morons who think the States should have supported Hitler. As I understand it, the “reasoning” here has something to do with Hitler/Nazis weren’t communists (and, of course, eventually fought the Big Mean Soviets).
As far as I am aware, both groups are very small minorities. And nuts. My own guess is too many USAians wouldn’t have a clew what FDR did, or when, and perhaps would not even recognise him as a former president, or confuse/conflate him with some other notable (or at least famous) person. Which, if true(-ish), is perhaps in some way worse?
Yeah Stein looked horrible. Seriously, that guy looks like hes got a brain tumor or something. Of course, a brain tumor would be the most charitable excuse for such inappropriate and silly comparisons.
Hitler and Republicans share one particularly important aspect, they both seek out scapegoats for what they perceive as problems rather than a pragmatic solution involving all citizens.
At #46
What’s wrong with a spy court with proper oversight? it existed long before bush
Ben Stein prefers candidates adjusting their depends to an audience of 20, at the local bingo parlor. Where Bill O’Reilly’s fan base resides.
Amplexus, a spy court is not what we got with FISA.
First, we got immunity for criminals. The prior FISA was clear in that telecoms KNEW that the gummint needed to show a proper warrant or a letter from Attorney General (not El Jefe, not Teh Dick, etc.). Their lawyers knew all this, that’s why Qwest didn’t cooperate with shrubco. So immunity for crimes already committed.
Second, we got bullshit for review. Even though FISA already allowed the gummint to spy on you for up to 72 hrs before showing the FISA court a warrant, they improved it by allowing blanket warrants. That means no individualized warrant is needed. They spy on you and you call your friend. Then they start spying on your friend, wiht no new warrant and no suspicion required. These get a review annually.
Beyond that, I’m sure shrubco wrote some BS signing statement that says “Whatever, I’ll do what I want.”
There’s a real problem with this pattern recognition BS as well. Just like torture, I am sure they are chasing bad leads as well as good ones, but probably an order of magnitude more bad ones.
blf #74
Patrick Buchanan is the primary spokesman for this group. He’s also publicly admired Hitler and, while not a Holocaust denier, could be described as a Holocaust revisionist.
Andy James, why do I get the feeling that a brain tumor in BS’s head would be awfully lonesome?
I like the way he calls Hitler, The Fuhrer — kinda the same way fearful wizards call Voldemort, the Dark Lord.
Mussolini = former Lefty (Socialist) who veered Right
Obama = ….well….
…Actually, to be fair to socialists, Obama is just being the Centrist he always was; He just played Lefty on TV to beat Hilary Clinton, who actually did vote for the war. Now that he’s beaten Clinton, he really has no further use for the Leftish facade. As for the popularity in Germany, well, remember they also liked David Hasselhoff way past his prime, too ;-) He originally wanted to speak at the Brandenburg Gate but Merkel said “Nein!”. So they let him speak at the Siegesäule instead (see the movie “Wings of Desire” and its sequel–it’s featured prominently there).
I just can’t get enthused about Obama. Bill Clinton could give great speeches to, but never lived up to his lofty rhetoric. The 1990s were marginally better than the 1980s, but real wages, adjusted for inflation, kept declining. I’m sure Obama supporters feel the same way about him as I did as a young Clinton supporter in 1992. And the only way Clinton made it into office is ultimately thanks to Ross Perot and the Republican and Independent voters he drew away from the incumbent. I do think Obama’s in a better position than Bill Clinton was in 1992, not running against a sitting president. But I’d rather vote for what I want and lose than vote for what I don’t want and win. And I don’t want the “smarter, better, more diplomatic” Empire that Obama’s selling. I don’t want someone who’s going to expand faith based initiatives (even if he’s using coded language to mean he’s going to try to go back to the way things were pre-Bush; If you can’t come out and state unequivocal support for church-state separation, that’s cowardly). I don’t want someone who once expressed support to ban concealed weapons nationally, overturning over a decade of hard work at the state level which has seen reductions in crime everywhere concealed carry by the law-abiding was legalized. I don’t want someone who capitulated on FISA.
It’s not that Obama’s “not perfect”, it’s that he’s seriously flawed and doesn’t represent my values except at the most superficial level in *some* of his speeches. I’m sorry, but that’s not good enough. Bill Clinton talked pretty, too, but he’s the one who got NAFTA rammed through and instituted rather draconian “Welfare reform”.
I predict more of the same and worse from Obama.
So I’ll be either 1) staying home or 2) voting either McKinney/Clemente or Nader/Gonzales if there are also pressing local issues to attend to in the election.
Only 75.000 ?
I thought that the US was bigger than Germany (by about a foctor of 4). We hat 200.000 people listening to Obama in Berlin. And he isn’t even involved in local politics !
Anything less than 800.000 would be a sad show….
PS: If you don’t wnat him, then I think he could consider moving into German poöitics. I wish we had anyone only 50% as good as he seems to be. I’m sure her would win, if he would run for Bundeskanzler tomorow…
By the way, Hitler held his biggest ralies AFTER her came to power. But then Ben Stein also likes to forget, that Hitler was a Roman Catholic up to his death and good buddies with the Pope….
It is interesting, on this side of the Atlantic the son of the British wartime Fascist leader has just won a case against a tabloid newspaper who saw a german uniform (modern Luftwaffe) and heard German spoken (without getting it translated) and immediately accused him of being a Nazi. I am glad to see he won even if he is utterly unlikeable in person. A man should be allowed to indulge his personal peccadiloes in private with other consenting adults without filthy newspaper hacks filming it.
If Stein had made that comment over here Obama would probably have been able to sue him though I would like to think he is bigger than to do so.
I hate Glenn Beck. He is like so many people I grew up with. He admits proudly that he has little to no edjumacation, and likes to claim that he might not know, “this or that,” but he is, “A thinker.”
Derived conclusions, based on little that represents the facts, are poor conclusions…
Next up of Glenn Beck: Pat Robertson says Obama might be the Antichrist!
I’m with Lago. Glen Beck makes my teeth itch. I often feel when listening to him that he must have read the intro to an econ 1 text book and then smugly gone “Well now I understand it all.”
#80
Good point!
Hahahaha.
Hey, good to see you’re doing your part to flush what’s left of America down the tubes. Obama’s far from perfect, but consider the alternative. I’d jam a stick in my eye before I signed onto Nader’s stupid ego trip, but that’s just me.
I was going to mention this week’s Doonesbury cartoons but khan already did that in #71.
The joke is McCain could never fill a stadium. That many people are not interested in seeing a senile old man who doesn’t know where Pakistan is.
TBogg wrote the best post ever directed at Nader voters: Your Mumia Sweatshirt won’t get you into Heaven Anymore.
The fact that lots of people like Obama is obviously going to be a strange and unnerving offense to conservatives. They’re used to everyone generally hating Bush and yet they still think he’s cracker god’s gift America.
And I keep hearing commercials for Glenn Beck on the only AM station I can get out here, and it’s always this laughable clip of him sounding incredulous that it’s cold somewhere (I forget where exactly) and so they have to use more coal to keep warm.
Then, in his best “Get a load of this wit” voice, he says “So basically it’s TOO COLD for GLOBAL WARMING!”
Amazing he was able to even say all of that, since he’s apparently sucking on his own wang while doing so.
Is that a backhanded endorsement? I thought the strategy was to make Obama look weak and indecisive.
A strong leader figure that they can follow without questioning is what the right wing was seeing all these years in Bush. Tell them Obama is like Hitler but not Hitler and they will run to the polls to vote for him. Their primitive lust for a strongman to run the country has been on display for so long: If Obama staged a Nazi-style torch march at night through DC they would riot in the streets to have the vote earlier so they can make him their Führer immediately.
They are just jealous because their candidate has no charisma. I think Obama effectively showed his capacity to build rapport for the U.S. worldwide on this trip. Can you imagine Bush or McCain giving a speech that more than 200,000 people would attend? I can’t, and if I ever did see such a thing I would think the fuhrer had come back. McCain does slightly resemble Napoleon.
Stein seems to always go directly to the Nazi’s for anything he opposes. What a buffoon.
… just a little side thought: You’re able to draw quite the crowd yourself PZ :) You have some rock star potential like Obama. Wow, that fits right in with the distorted logic from that epic failure of Stein’s.
Hey, I’d lol that. Anybody got a picture of Obama looking at said mess? (Iraq, Afghanistan, New Orleans, etc..)?
Chris (H), #81: “I like the way he calls Hitler, The Fuhrer — kinda the same way fearful wizards call Voldemort, the Dark Lord.”
I think the word choice probably actually represents just a touch of shame at the ridiculous tastelessness of throwing around Hitler’s name in accusations all the time.
Why is CNN handing this guy the megaphone?
That’s the real question. This is a man decried by the ADL for his trivialization of the Holocaust, who then goes and compares Obama to Hitler and Moussolini?
Is television really the required platform for Godwinning wingnuts?
Godwin’s law should have consequences. If you Godwin your moment on tv, you’ve forfeited your right to appear on the are. You’ve just shown to everyone that your debate skills are better suited to the internet chatrooms of freeperville.
MADNESS is putting people like Stein, Beck, O’Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh and their likes on mainstream media while rewarding people like Vincent Bugliosi with a media blackout. go figure.
anybody heard of the “imperial presidency” hearing yesterday?
i rest my case.
~C
are = air
Always remember, kids: It’s OK To Break Godwin’s Law, But Only If You’re A Republican.
i think godwin’s law needs to be re-branded to reflect stein’s incessant use.
Somehow the thought of more petulant pouting from ‘Publican pundits this year warms my heart. “Why do all the big stupid-heads like HIM? He’s not better’n us! He’s NOT!”
“i think godwin’s law needs to be re-branded to reflect stein’s incessant use.”
Godwin’s Theory?
“He draws large crowds! Holy shit next thing you know he’ll be invading Poland and executing Jews!!!!”
Look out! Paul McCartney is no stranger to large crowds, and he’s lining up concerts in Israel and eastern Europe! And he’s vegetarian, just like Hitler!
You people keep mentioning Godwin’s law, but I’m not sure it applies here. Godwin’s law clearly states: “As a discussion grows longer…” Comparing people to Hitler or Nazis, on the other hand, is the first thing Stein does whenever he opens his mouth. It’s a completely different situation.
@ #3
Do you speak for the mere 200,000 Germans at the Berlin rally or for all Germans?
BTW, I thought all True Germans(TM) capitalized just about everything, no?
How about this line from the NYT: “In Germany, politicians in front of large, shouting crowds evoke images that nobody wants to see repeated.”
Is that any better, worse, neither?
Here’s the link – http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/26/opinion/26neiman.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
sorry.
How about this line from the NYT: “In Germany, politicians in front of large, shouting crowds evoke images that nobody wants to see repeated.”
Godwin by implication. Really not a whole lot better than screaming ‘HITLER HITLER HITLER’ at the top of their voices. Sometimes an enthusiastic crown is just that, and nothing more. It doesn’t have to be a harbinger of fascism, unless you’re a complete moron, which most of the mainstream media seems to be.
However, if the Times is stooping to the level of the Enquirer here, Beck is on the level of the Weekly World News. I can’t believe there are people stupid enough to watch that crap.
Then I’ll propose this single purpose law:
Stein’s Law – Given the opportunity to discuss a topic unrelated to his own genius or Nixon, Ben Stein will compare a subject he dislikes to Hitler/NAZIs.
Yeah, they’re jealous they can’t draw crowds that big. It’s not enough to thoroughly fuck the populace over; you have to get them to like you too. Otherwise you’ve failed as a Republican leader.
Hi,
This is Ben Stein. I would like to take this opportunity to clear my name by mentioning that not everything reminds me of Hitler. Trying to insinuate that this is true is very much like something Hitler would have done. My character here is being defamed by a bearded man with mustache; of course, it goes without saying that Hitler also had a mustache. Hitler also had red dry eyes, so if you don’t want to be compared to Hitler use Visine to get the red out. One can get red eyes by drinking too much red Italian wine, much like Mussolini.
Danke shoen,
Ben
I overheard this when my parents were watching Glen Beck’s show. I pointed out how completely ridiculous a connection that was to make, and that apparently EVERYTHING comes back to Hitler for him, and my mom replies, “You don’t think Ben Stein is actually serious, do you? He’s always tongue-in-cheek. Like that Colbert guy you like.”
I sure wish that were true.
PZ, you forgot to typeset the Ben Stein quote in Comic Sans le Cerveau.
Stein is such a f… ooh, dear, I almost said frakkin’ Nazi. Whew. He is a dick, though, and a wrong dick at that. Ad hominem is too good for him, damn throwback.
Nino at 83,
Nader/Gonzales? Really! Have you paid any attention to Nader? I’ve met the man and he is nothing but a huge ego that needs constant propping up. He’s spent his entire life as a Washington lobbyist, but wants us to think of him as an “outsider” to DC. What a laugh! He’s got some serious issues.
Will everybody wailing about someone proposing to check a box for McKinney or Nader please take a deep breath and remember that not all vote(r)s in the US are equal?
Those who live in, say, Texas or Massachusetts have the liberty of showing their support for “third-party” candidates without worry, thanks to the constitutional bungle known as the Electoral College.
If you (like me) live in a “swing” state (like Florida), your vote might actually make a difference, and your options for casting a conscience ballot are correspondingly constrained. (Anybody know an emoticon to signify gnashing of teeth?)
Jérôme@59, yes, there is indeed a group of wingnuts(?) who blame FDR (and esp., if I recall correctly, The New Deal), for … well, I’ve never actually understood just what they blame him for…
They blame FDR for creating a prosperous, educated middle class, something for which they will never forgive him.
Here’s my candidate for Stein’s Law: anyone who routinely and immediately compares people he doesn’t like to Hitler and/or other fascists, on self-evidently spurious grounds, has nothing useful or intelligent to say and should properly be regarded as a cancerous growth in the body of civil public discourse. Named after Ben Stein, who has famously concluded that all scientists are Nazis because some Nazis were scientists, and that Barack Obama is like Hitler because both have spoken to large outdoor crowds.
You know, I voted for Nader in 2000 and 2004. I believe I had good reasons. Gore failed to convince me at the time that he was up to the job. He was the same old tired politics-as-usual candidate. Kerry was even worse. I was pretty fed up with the Democratic Party running the biggest idiots they could find, apparently because they thought they were “electable”. I wasn’t going to vote for either just because of the “D” next to their name. Neither of them were innovative, inspiring, or impressive. I refused to choose between Moron (R) and Moron (D).
Since Obama came onto the scene, he’s felt like a breath of fresh air. New approaches, ideas, invigorating speeches, way better than Gore or Kerry. He reminds me of JFK. Because of this, I can finally stop casting a protest vote for Nader and get behind a Democrat for president. He’s not perfect, but he’s close enough to convince me that he can do wonders to fix not only Bush’s fuckups, but also fix some of the bullshit that existed before Bush. It’s about time we had someone who isn’t afraid of breaking out of the same old pattern of the same old bullshit.
Is there anything Stein can’t connect to Hitler and the Nazis?
Ben Stein thinks his bartender is a Nazi if he get 2 olives instead of 3 in his martini. The oppression is unbearable.
“Seventy-five-thousand people at an outdoor sports palace, well, that’s something the Fuehrer would have done. …”
Reminds me less of Der Fuerher than it does of Billy Graham. Or the Pope. Or maybe even Jesus getting to feed the multitudes. And since this is a Christian nation, then Obama has not only the right but the duty to act accordingly.
The real question is why Obama is doing his Christian duty in such a small stadium?
Ben Stein’s obviously got a bad case of nazi fetishism. He seems to be able to associate almost anything with brown shirts and Nuremberg rallys. Likely, there’s a vast collection of nazi memorabilia in the catacombs under the Stein mansion.
I was thinking….what? The Jeff Beck Group is doing what?
Is there anything Stein can’t connect to Hitler and the Nazis?
ben stein.
cretinism.
uh… hello? hello? anything else?
I don’t follow any of this.
How can Obama be a nazi if he is a Muslim?
Boy, this politics stuff can sure be confusing.
Any way you slice it, the federal government is a bad repository of power.
The mindset that ‘getting someone “more progressive” than George Bush into power will cure what ails us’ lives in the roots of most American’s complaints about government.
We think that, because the federal government has taken power away from local communities and heaped it upon itself, we need to focus all of our attention on the few individuals who can climb into those ranks.
What ever happened to “We The People”, and community government?
Barack Obama “seems” to be far more rational and progressive than Bush, so we all run over to that side of the boat, not realizing that the boat is about to capsize. He’s giving away free stuff to the poor! He’s gonna fix the economy by spending money he’s gonna take from rich people!
If you really want a progressive thought, here it is–
Get the federal government BACK to its Constitutional roots, a small and harmless body that protects our basic rights and nothing more.
Re-establish local government, county government, and state government, whereby locals can actually KNOW the locals who are in positions of power, go see them if they have a problem, participate in local environmental or social problems, etc…
This makes government MORE responsive AND responsible, and turns it into a finer instrument for ecological and social governance.
You people who have jumped on the Obama Bandwagon are actually tools of the corporate elite, as you are acknowledging the federal right to power, and feeding into its malfeasance.
Obama promises more federal use of power, more centralized governing.
(This is NOT an endorsement of McCain, as he is far worse in the use and abuse of federal powers…)
Get with it, all of you “progressive types! You are feeding the machine that ails you.
Y’all should be far smarter than that, but you’re not.
“No, sir, this is a democracy. We can’t go off electin’ people who are popular!”
I know you were just being facetious and writing off the cuff, but don’t you think someone who claims to be learn’d at school might know that we are a Republic and not a Democracy?
We have 50 state governments that are atrophying because we’ve all come to think that the federal administration in power is the catch all and be all of governance. Our local councils go unattended by locals because we are all watching Obama on Oprah.
The federal government was not supposed to BE the focus of governance by clever design and yet the clever have succumbed to that which was never intended for good reason.
I don’t know… Maybe this will bring in the apparently sizable fascist vote that got Bush elected the second time. I would never have thought that Obama would have had a shot at capturing it.
So this is, what, Ben Stein’s schtick now? He just compares everything to Nazis?
Does he do it all the time, or just on camera?
“Alright Mr. Stein, that’ll be $74.32.”
“You know, it just seems wrong to charge $3 for a loaf of bread. It’s like something you’d see in Nazi Germany.”
Why is it when I use Visine my eyes still feel dirty?
Because Visine is like something the Nazis would have invented.
Scott from Oregon #128
In real life, we live in a representative democratic republic. So we’re in a republic AND a democracy.
Back in 1794, when it could take weeks for information to travel to every part of the country, governance tended to be more local. However, by the 1860s, when most parts of the country were tied together by telegraph and something happening in Colorado was known in Washington the same day, it became possible for a central government to do more governing. Also, during and after the Civil War there was a major philosophical shift. As Shelby Foote noted in his monumental The Civil War: A Narrative:
“However, by the 1860s, when most parts of the country were tied together by telegraph and something happening in Colorado was known in Washington the same day, it became possible for a central government to do more governing”.
I understand how it happened historically, but I also understand that if you look at the original INTENT, you will see it was not supposed to have happened.
There is very little “governing” done at the federal level that cannot be replicated and improved upon by going back to state jurisdiction.
From the environment to health care to education, local governments can do a far more efficient job than the federal government. They can collect taxes, maintain roads, build schools and infrastructure…
If you agree that the federal government does a better job of managing Oregon forests, for example, than the state and people of Oregon would (local environmentalists are going up against FEDERAL agencies in this fight) then you may not agree with me. What rational human thinks that having G W Bush and his cronies manage the west coast forests is a good idea? You?
Television ruined the relationship people had with their local governments, and we now assume Washington DC and the powers that migrate there are the only methods we have of producing an ordered and beneficial society.
There is nothing “progressive” in granting this entity any power it was not originally granted.
It is unnecessary and has far more dire consequences than benefits.
There is no reason to assume Barack Obame can solve any problem I or my neighbors may have, yet so many progressives are infatuated with the prospect of letting him try.
So many have bought into the federal claim to power that I am embarrassed for ourselves as a self-governed and free people.
I’ve always had a problem with people who claim to know the original intent of the Constitutional writers. The so-called founding fathers were a contentious bunch. Almost every word of the original articles and the Bill of Rights was the result of compromise, often after bitter dispute. Sure, there’s The Federalist Papers, but even those were just the opinions of Madison, Hamilton and Jay.
All too often, what’s claimed as original intent is merely the prejudice of the speaker. The phrase means “these are my opinions and I’m sure the founding fathers had exactly the same opinions.” Since the founding fathers are all dead, they can hardly disagree with someone who says they know original intent.
Besides, original intent is a red herring. The Constitution was written over two hundred years ago. Present American society, culture and political systems are not the same as they were in 1794. The Constitution was written vaguely enough (there’s that compromise thing again) that what covered the political situation in the late 18th Century can and has been interpreted to cover the political situation in the early 21st Century. Contrary to the belief of some, the Constitution is not a dead document.
… Comic Sans le Cerveau
Mandydax — thanks for a great coffee-spew moment! I knew that high-school French would come in handy one day ….
Lemme guess, Scott — you’re for Barr now that Ron Paul is out, right?
“I’ve always had a problem with people who claim to know the original intent of the Constitutional writers.”
Fair enough. And there are books out there arguing for all sides here…
It does not change the veracity of my next statement–
“There is very little “governing” done at the federal level that cannot be replicated and improved upon by going back to state jurisdiction.
From the environment to health care to education, local governments can do a far more efficient job than the federal government. They can collect taxes, maintain roads, build schools and infrastructure…”
Claiming “political climate” or “modern age” is a copout, in that it makes the assumption that what exists is better than what could or should exist.
And no. The Cnstitution is now a dead document. It has been shredded. The remnants are lying at the feet of those who thought they knew better.
“Re-establish local government, county government, and state government, whereby locals can actually KNOW the locals who are in positions of power, go see them if they have a problem, participate in local environmental or social problems, etc…”
Here’s the problem with that local government – it tends to be a hotbed of cronyism for some, and oppression and the denial of rights for others. Most the racial oppression people of color have experienced in this country, for example, was caused and supported by local government – local election boards, draft boards, local police, local administrators of government programs. It took the power of the federal government to chance this, and honestly it takes the power of the federal government to keep some localities from reverting.
I say this not as an insult or attack, simply as an observation: there is something going very wrong in that man’s brain.
I couldn’t stomach watching the entire Beck interview. With that aside, am I the only one that thought Ben was being sarcastic (re. Obama & Nazis and cheering throngs of fans)?
I can understand having little respect for the man’s opinions. But it sure seemed to me (from the little I watched of that clip) that he was speaking tongue-in-cheek. And if so, wouldn’t all these accusations of Ben Steinery be a bit off base?
Pure opinion. I prefer things like food inspection standards and drug testing to be uniform throughout the country. But that’s my opinion.
I’ve noticed that the people who complain most about government are those who have good government. I doubt seriously that your libertarian fantasies would be widely accepted in Somalia.
“I’ve noticed that the people who complain most about government are those who have good government. I doubt seriously that your libertarian fantasies would be widely accepted in Somalia.”
Oh, you have? Ever been to Haiti? Somalia? How about Egypt? Beirut? South Africa?
Are you suggesting these people complain less about government than the US? How about Iraq? Do they complain more or less than an American?
“I doubt seriously that your libertarian fantasies would be widely accepted in Somalia”.
I’ve never uttered a Libertarian word. Local liberalism is what I was espousing. Nothing wrong with progressive ideas, it is just that the implementation of them is distorted. You want to hand over the governing duties to people you don’t know, will never know, and have no way to know. Why?
Uniform food inspection by the US government? Are you kidding me?
This is your reason for centralizing almost all government functions?
I am truly laughing…
As it happens, I’ve been to all those places except Haiti. That was one of the benefits of having spent 20+ years in the Navy. Have you been to any of them?
I’m suggesting that those people would like some form of effective government. Somalia is ruled by warlords, essentially gangs fighting turf battles with other gangs. The inhabitants have to give allegiance to a warlord or else their lives will become very short and quite painful. Then they have to hope that their warlord doesn’t lose a turf battle with someone stronger. If they’re lucky, the new warlord will just require a token payment for backing the wrong side. The average Somali would love to have an actual, functioning government with real police to keep him safe from the extortionists and gang wars.
There’s an old saying among NFL players: “You can bullshit the spectators but you can’t bullshit the players.” If you’re not a libertarian then you’re doing an excellent imitation of one. Such a good imitation, in fact, that you completely fooled me. I’m quite willing to believe that you’re not a member of the Libertarian Party. But you express a basic libertarian philosophy extremely well.
If that’s what you call your particular brand of libertarianism, then that’s your call.
I got you now. You’re not a libertarian, you just play one on the internet. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably isn’t a gazelle.
I’ve always had a problem with people who claim to know the original intent of the Constitutional writers.
It’s made a lot easier by the fact that they had a habit of writing that intent down. Just reading the text of the Tenth Amendment, for example, is enough to make it obvious that the original “decentralized power” interpretation makes a lot more sense than the modern “What’s a Tenth Amendment?” interpretation.
Note that one of the key words in the above paragraph is “Amendment”. The authors of the Constitution really did recognize that it wouldn’t be a “dead document”, and they provided a means for renewing it’s life that would ensure that future changes would be made by accumulating consent through debate, which would have been far preferable to the alternative method of suppressing dissent through power.
If Beck or Stein had a half a brain between them, they’d remember that their old buddy Ronald Reagan campaigned before crowds in stadia as far back as 1966, several times. Teddy Roosevelt campaigned in a stadium in Tacoma, Washington, in 1911.
Of course, Obama will draw a crowd about equal to all of Ronald Reagan’s stadium appearances put together. I think Stein and Beck are jealous — or would be, if they had half a brain between them.