Thomas Foley of Virginia is nuts. This is the delegate to the Republican National Convention who has called for increased security. Why? Because he has an irrational fear of us.
On Friday the Catholic League reported that Thomas E. Foley, a Virginia delegate to the Republican National Convention (RNC) in Minneapolis has asked that increased security be considered for the event in light of Myers’ threat to acquire and desecrate the Eucharist.
“I just felt security at the Republican National Convention ought to look at him and his followers,” Foley told CNA in a phone interview on Wednesday morning. He reported that he had not received an update about his request.
Voicing his concerns about Myers, Foley said: “What I think he has done, he’s loaded a cyberpistol and he’s cocked it and he’s left it on the table. He may have set something in motion that no one can stop. It was irresponsible, a hell of a thing to do.”
Foley explained that he thought Myers should not be able to incite such acts with “impunity,” saying that he was especially disturbed by the comments posted on Myers’ blog. He said it was “eye-opening” to read the people who supported Myers’ action. Even at his age of 63, Foley said, he had never “personally encountered such bigotry.”
He also objected to Myers’ recent description of Catholic League President Bill Donohue as “braying,” which Foley, a self-described Irish Catholic, claimed was “a great insult for the Irish.”
Foley said he believes Myers was telling his readers to acquire a consecrated Host at Mass, which Foley thought would result in disruptions.
“What’s he telling them to do? Consecrated Hosts are not just lying around,” he said to CNA, noting that the only other possible way to secure a Host would be to accost a priest, nun, or layman taking the Sacrament to the sick. Even E-bay, Foley emphasized, has prevented the sale of consecrated Hosts.
Wait, what? I’m armed with a cyberpistol? Is that what we atheist brigands use to rob trucks trundling down the tubes of the internet?
I had no idea that “braying” was especially insulting to the Irish. I’m sure it’s a word that is used with great frequency in reference to Bill Donohue, though. No ethnic slur was intended, since I was unaware of any association (and still am) — it’s really just intended to highlight Donohue’s personal attributes as an ass.
I’m baffled by the last paragraph, though. If the crackers aren’t just lying around, how come people are having such an easy time getting them? The people who’ve sent them to me haven’t mentioned having to disrupt anything. And if their availability is so limited, why is he calling for increased security at the RNC? Do Republicans get Christ Crackers on registration, or something?
This is precisely the kind of deranged hysteria we have to protest against, I’m afraid.
oh! Look! A Bishop calls the trauma suffered by a priest’s rape victims “dwelling crankily on old wounds”!
Cassock wearing scum.
oh! Look! A Bishop calls the trauma suffered by a priest’s rape victims “dwelling crankily on old wounds”!
If I’ve learned anything about the religious over the last 30 years, it’s that they simply cannot resist shooting themselves in the head, given even the slightest opportunity to do so.
this is just another straw in the giant haystack.
Reading this post by the bigot Myers and the ensuing responses goes a long way in exposing the outright hatred and distain toward anything Christian. I challenge any of you to be as hateful toward anything muslim. No? I thought not.
efrique @#491:
Don’t you know that PZ always keeps an eponym hidden under his alacrity? He might start firing off litotes or something!
(This comment dedicated to Casey Luskin.)
Ahh, you have Koran envy. Don’t worry. We’ll pray for you.
The most ironic thing about all this is that if the catholic response had been “We disagree with and don’t condone Myers’ views, but it’s his right to say what he wants on his private blog”, the catholics would’ve come out of this looking morally and ethically superior to Myers.
But they didn’t. They’re the ones who kicked up the shitstorm, and now they’re trying to blame Myers for it. Also, just for the lulz, I’d look into pressing libel charges against Donahue for describing you as a racist, Myers. I’d love to see that go ahead.
Ron in, I couldn’t care less what your attributes are – you seem to be the one taken in by the genetic fallacy.
“I challenge any of you to be as hateful toward anything muslim.”
Here’s a free tip, Ray: look through PZ’s previous posts, and READ THEM. I know reading is one of those things that guys like you are adverse to, but you’ll get used to it. Some of the posts even have pictures!
Ray,
Yeah, we’ve never heard that claim before.
DO SOME FUCKING READING BEFORE YOU POST YOU FUCKING IGNORANT PIECE OF SHIT!
Charlie Foxtrot,
all good,let them self-destruct !
I find it rather excellent that the pedophiles and rapists in the CC think whoever criticizes them on their acts is spoiling the great fun were all having rejoicing in WYD,its so gtotesquely unconnected to reality that they are just constantly shooting themselves in the foot !
hmmm, not just any old mitre-wielding coverup-artist either… but the Bishop organising the whole “World(as-long-as-you-count-only-Catholics-as-‘theworld’) Youth Day” cracker-feasting dead-guy adoring extravaganza.
I love his whole “lets just focus on how nice we all are this week” attitude
Wowbagger,
Your response just proves what a world without God produces…hatred, violence, and vulgarity…it is YOU who is ignorant my friend….change your ways while you still can….I will pray for you.
“Reading this post by the bigot Myers and the ensuing responses goes a long way in exposing the outright hatred and distain toward anything Christian. I challenge any of you to be as hateful toward anything muslim. No? I thought not.”
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/07/desecration_its_a_fun_hobby.php
Bam!
Have fun.
#486 Posted by: David Carson | July 16, 2008 11:31 PM
I can see how the David issue could be a bit disconcerting.
That’s why I chose a name that would be hard to confuse with another one.
Many of the god trolls and krolls use Biblical names.
Lots of Davids, Johns, Peters, etc.
I challenge any of you to be as hateful toward anything muslim.
Got a Koran handy for me to piss on?
HeHe,
Wowbagger,
got the royal treatment there from Ray,LOL.
Ray,
I pray for your mother and sister mate.
Er, in #492, that should be Tom Foley, not Mark Foley… so hard to tell the corrupt bastards apart.
Gary,
Myers is a bigot, not a racist. The problem is this…if Myers (or any of you) choose not to believe, that is your choice….but why must you do all you can to belittle and hate all those that choose to believe…just go about your business…why do you feel it necessary to desecrate the Holy Eucharist….compensating for something, perhaps?
Around here you’ve gotta be quick to post that for PZ, desecration is an equal opportunity hobby.
Jesus, Mo, Shiva, Zeus, they’re so hard to tell apart and so equally imaginary.
clinteas,
My mother and sister are fine, mate, thank you. They are practicing and believing Catholics which ensures that their souls are heaven bound. But I do thank you for your concern.
Those who have said in reply to my earlier post that an argument or a philosophy should be evaluated on its own merits and not the personal merits of its advocates are correct. Regrettably I made some of my first remarks out of anger rather than reason. But that is the point I intended to make, since I failed to make the point clearly: what I see here are lots of people who claim to give reason pride of place while they ridicule those whose views are opposite their own. What, exactly, is reasonable about that? Some of you who responded to me pointed out my use of the ad hominem fallacy, but there are plenty of so-called “people of reason” here who have done precisely the same.
Ray @ #518
That’s pretty rich coming from a group of people that say atheists will suffer eternal torment for not “choosing to believe” what they assert is infallible, then insist on teaching anti-science in science classrooms. Are you saying that Christians are just “going about their business”?
icthyic:
the Reagan administration went on to sell weapons to the Ayatollah.
…and to the precursor of what became the Taliban (and gave them military training, to boot).
No, no, no. The Taliban was created retroactively by Bill Clinton when he failed to kill Osama bin Laden when given the chance. It’s one of those time travel paradoxes.
Ray – No matter how many pigs Mohammed had sex with during his lifetime, it doesn’t make the existence of a historical Jesus any more likely.
Your response just proves what a world without God produces…
But I thought you believe that the God is in the world?
See, the thing is that it’s hard to respect people who don’t even make a minimal attempt to exercise intelligence or intellectual honesty.
I will pray for you.
Fuck you too.
Ray,
You’re spot on. I desecrate eucharists because I have a small penis. In fact, every time I crush a cracker, I hope with all my heart that the part of Jesus’ body that was in that cracker was his wang.
I’ll be damned if a fictional son of God from 2000 years ago is having a bigger penis than me.
Wow, hopefully that shuts up all the Catholics asking him to desecrate the Koran instead.
Ray wrote:
No, retard, my response proves that I’m tired of idiots coming to the thread and making stupid comments that mean they haven’t bothered to read anything before posting. Starting at the middle is fine when you’re enjoying crayon-time with your colouring-books, but in most cases you have to begin at the beginning. If you’d shown up any time before the last half-hour you might have experienced any number of my more polite, peaceful and reserved posts.
But, right now, I’m tired of idiots like you showing up and making statements that add nothing to the dialogue in progress.
In the immortal words of Walter Sobchak, you’re out of your fucking element.
Yeah, you pray for me. I’ll think for both of us. At least one of us will be doing something constructive.
Yeah, Ray. Keep your sky daddy out of my child’s classroom and maybe we’ll talk. Until then, STFU! GOD IS IMAGINARY!
“why do you feel it necessary to desecrate the Holy Eucharist?”
So I guess “Holy Eucharist” is code for death-threats now?
“but why must you do all you can to belittle and hate all those that choose to believe”
You just don’t get it. Disagreeing with you isn’t “hate”. Getting a bunch of like-minded dudes together to talk about how dumb your beliefs are isn’t “hate”. YOU came into this blog of your own free will and engaged us in conversation; nobody forced you here to investigate and read every little heretical tidbit.
Here’s the bottom line: we’re going to continue calling your beliefs idiotic. You’ll do the same to us, which is good, because we don’t care. You may want to shut down all criticism, but some of us are secure enough in our beliefs to allow criticism to occur.
Some of you who responded to me pointed out my use of the ad hominem fallacy, but there are plenty of so-called “people of reason” here who have done precisely the same.
where.
nowhere has anyone said that all arguments from catholics are ridiculous because they believe in transubstantiation.
instead, all we have put forward (relevant to the subject at hand) is that the concept of transubstantiation itself is ridiculous.
that is NOT ad-hominem.
In fact, several of us have repeatedly noted Catholics who HAVE had a more sane response to their precious “beliefs” being ridiculed.
so far, you don’t qualify.
care to try again?
finally:
please STOP equating reason with reasonable.
really not the same thing.
Ray, when you say “I will pray for you” to an atheist, you are only convincing the atheist you’re an asshole and batshit crazy.
Hey Charlie Foxtrot,
Thank God for world youth day and the Pope’s participation. With the millions of worldwide youth that are attending, we can only hope that the next generation will stamp out the angry, hate-filled atheistic voices such as PZ Myers and the respondants we see here. The Spirit is alive!!
The Foley quotes in that CNA article are the craziest thing I’ve seen since Ted Stevens tried to explain how the Internet works.
Max at 141,
“4. PZ has one RNC delegate calling for something just short of activation of the Minnesota National Guard for Convention security. I’m sure the good people of Minnesota
just love that kind of publicity. For them, It must bring back memories of the Chicago Convention in the ’60s.”
As a “good person from Minnesota” I indeed do love this publicity. Thanks for pointing it out. Oh, and the over reaction of those in power during the 1960’s? Yep, Shows that there are still those same problems.
Funny, when I started reading your post I thought I was gonna disagree with you, but no, you’re right. This really does show the true colors of the far right, and they’re as ugly as ever.
Who cares what Bill Donahue thinks about this? For that matter, who cares what other Catholics think about it?
But you should know that you’re taking a risky gamble, Dr. Myers. The desecration of the Eucharist, the body of the one God, is extremely imprudent, regardless of what you believe or what point you are trying to make. There are things unseen at work, the consequences of which you do not know.
what I see here are lots of people who claim to give reason pride of place while they ridicule those whose views are opposite their own. What, exactly, is reasonable about that?
The burden is on you to show that it isn’t reasonable. In fact, it’s quite reasonable to ridicule people who espouse bullshit and do it dishonestly … who do it employing every possible fallacy, who do it in a self-serving fashion. These people aren’t just ridiculous, they are disgusting.
Now, what’s reasonable about your trolling?
So, if I started a religion, where adherents felt their excrement was sacred, actually “of god” (hey, isn’t god everywhere?) and needed to be saved, dried and displayed on an altar until the person dies, then they are buried with the body.
Can we then claim that the practice of all non-believers flushing their poop is horribly offensive to us believers?
BobC,
That’s funny….when an atheist says “there is no God” or “the Holy Eucharist is just a cracker” I am convinced that the atheist is an asshole and batshit crazy. Guess we have something in common after all.
There are things unseen at work, the consequences of which you do not know.
How do you know? And why should anyone believe you?
Ray prays for his dog and his mother. He should pray off, and go pray for himself.
David:
But that is the point I intended to make, since I failed to make the point clearly: what I see here are lots of people who claim to give reason pride of place while they ridicule those whose views are opposite their own. What, exactly, is reasonable about that?
I’m typing slowly so you can understand:
Crackers do not turn into people.
Let me say it again:
Crackers do not turn into people.
Now go back and review your comments. Look at the word reason and think about what it might mean in the conext of this discussion. Thank you.
There are things unseen at work, the consequences of which you do not know.
Prove it.
Robert Thille,
You can do whatever you want….I’m not going to hate you for it….why must you atheists hate Christians for practicing their beliefs?
Matt wrote:
Woooooooo-oooo-oooooo! Scary Christian ooga-booga! Watch out PZ!
Matt, you’re an idiot.
Guess we have something in common after all.
No, BobC isn’t trolling. (And he‘s right, and makes sense.)
@Ray
Seriously – “god” “yahwaeh” “allah” are all just the same fairytale dreamt up by some goat-herders who looked up at the infinite universe and shat themselves.
I consider them all the same ego-delusion. A ‘mind-virus’ force-fed to each generation with the only goal of self-preservation.
I sincerely hope my children, or maybe their children, only have to read about religion in history books – and shake their heads in wonder.
Ha! Oh, for a second there I thought you were actually going to do something!
Wait, you actually believe that a cracker can turn into the body of Christ through the priest saying a few words?
Would you care to put this view under a double-blind experiment?
why must you atheists hate Christians for practicing their beliefs?
your definition of “hate” must be much broader than a sane person’s.
“we can only hope that the next generation will stamp out the angry, hate-filled atheistic voices such as PZ Myers and the respondants we see here”
*cue whining* Waaaah, why all the hate?? Why can’t you just like us silently so we can slam you? Stop being mean, you big ugly meanies!
Get a life, Ray, as well as a cure for that hypocrisy o’ yours.
Soylent Jesus is made of people!
Well, imaginary people…
Hey inkadu,
I’m typing slowly so you can understand:
All the known matter in the universe could not have been contained within an atomic nucleus without the power of God.
Let me say it again:
All the known matter in the universe could not have been contained within an atomic nucleus without the power of God.
Now go back and review your comments. Look at the word reason and think about what it might mean in the context of this discussion. Thank you.
Ray, learn how to use an ellipsis or cut off your right pinky. I don’t care which.
I’ll pray for you! =)
Shhshhhh.
aaah…. too .. late!
Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn!
RAY: “They are practicing and believing Catholics which ensures that their souls are heaven bound”
Where by ‘souls’ he means ‘money’ and by ‘heaven’ he means ‘Vatican Molestation Legal Defense’.
why must you atheists hate Christians for practicing their beliefs?
Why must you lie? And Why must you troll?
Ray, there’s a big difference between an atheist saying “there’s no sky fairies” and your “I will pray for you”. When a Christian says “I will pray for you” he really means “My invisible friend will torture you because you don’t believe in my childish fantasies”.
Christians really do sound like assholes when they say that.
“But why must you do all you can to belittle and hate all those that choose to believe…”
We don’t hate all those that believe, we hate all that you believe, but keep posting fatuous nonsense, and we’ll get around to loathing and despising you, too, personally and in great detail. That isn’t bigotry, it’s informed disdain for flesh-dissolving stupidity that buuurns.
I hope someday you’ll realize that an organized mental virus whose victims value a magic cracker over a human being, whose hordes of automatons try to get a student expelled because he wouldn’t eat a magic biscuit, represents a problem for the rest of us who want to use the very few years we have together on the planet to not have to watch out for people with profoundly sociopathic beliefs. I have to drive, sharing the road with people who expect angels to do their driving for them while they answer their cell phones. At least in California, there are plenty of nutjobs running around all 5150, but because I don’t want to join in the most popular consensual hallucination, I’m the guy that’s crazy because I don’t believe in supernatural bullshit.
Are you honestly trying to scare a group of people who don’t believe in “things unseen” with “things unseen”. Well, bring it on, Matt, m’boy. Turn over your cards, lets see what ya got.
“Would you care to put this view under a double-blind experiment?”
Oh come on. EVERYBODY knows that the whole empirical world of science and nature are just lies concocted by Satan to turn us from the Path, meaning Satan created the universe and… and… Ahh, my brain just melted.
It’s hard thinking like an idiot.
Let me say it again
You can say it all you want but you are still wrong, ignorant, stupid, intellectually dishonest, and trolling.
DLUX: Please tell me this is not the GAFFL DLUX?
I suppose you are as equally critical of the National Education Association, which is harboring and protect thousands of child abusing teachers…or do you not have a hatred against that group?
Robert Thille is cribbing off Orson Scott Card. Which is fine. That one was a good story.
Matt:
There are things unseen at work, the consequences of which you do not know.
Indeed. Eldritch horrors, etc. Give your soul Cthulhu and pray for a quick death.
“Blah Blah Blah without the power of God.”
Translation: “I don’t understand so I invoke Magic.”
Re: C at #389
It isn’t a question of greater or lesser blame. The husband is totally to blame for sending a threatening email. PZ and his followers who did his bidding are partially to blame for getting her fired. Also to blame for her firing is 800-Flowers which could have exercised other options. The lady is least to blame since all she did was fail to secure the email account in her own home. If I did not secure my email account, which I do not, I would not expect my wife to do something so stupid and thoughtless as her husband did.
Ray, if you have Koran envy, convert. If you have union envy, join one. You do have penis envy, but I can’t help you with that one.
David @ 521
what I see here are lots of people who claim to give reason pride of place while they ridicule those whose views are opposite their own.
The comment threads on Pharyngula are not a forum for rigorous discourse. There are places for that, but for many of us, this just a place to have fun and let our frustrations out. At least, it is for me.
If you want to have a formal debate, and you’re willing to pay for transportation and an honorarium, I can debate the merits of Catholicism, atheism, God, or whatever else you want, with you.
Somehow, I don’t think you will be satisfied with the results.
@#149: Donohue is the “Cracker Whisperer”
Ray,
I’ll try to make this simple for you, Ray. Sorry I can’t draw any pictures for you to make it easier.
Read. The. Entire. Post. From. The. Top.
I don’t hate christians for practicing their beliefs. I hate what happens when christians to force others who don’t share their beliefs to do something – like hand over a cracker that that person was given.
I hate it when christians come to a blog and make stupid, ignorant comments without reading things first.
Tolerate the christian, hate teh stupid.
“All the known matter in the universe could not have been contained within an atomic nucleus without the power of God.”
When was all matter in the universe contained in an atomic nucleus? If you mean the big bang, then you’re VERY confused. Do some *gasp* reading in order to *double-gasp* educate yourself.
Also, how do you even go about proving something like that? Did you book your time at CERN to smash several billion subatomic particles? Or are you just making crap up again?
We don’t hate all those that believe, we hate all that you believe, but keep posting fatuous nonsense,
hate the sin but not the sinner?
:p
Hey Ken,
And due to your atheism, I have to live next door to the guy who’s watching snuff porn and scoping his next victim. When I complain about this, I’m told “don’t watch it” or “turn the channel.” Why can’t you do the same. Why must you pour your hatred and bigotry upon those of us who choose to save our souls by following the words of Christ?
You do have penis envy, but I can’t help you with that one.
maybe he should try for a detachable one?
Ray @ 551
All the known matter in the universe could not have been contained within an atomic nucleus without the power of God.
Don’t start a physics debate here. You’ll lose. As we approach Planck time, the very notions of matter/energy and the fundamental forces break down. We have equations that accurately describe what happens at that point. Your off-the-cuff, uninformed, reasoning-from-intuition remark is simply wrong.
“Why must you pour your hatred and bigotry upon those of us who choose to save our souls by following the words of Christ?”
You don’t actually read any posts but your own, do you? I’ll explain it one more time: disagreeing with you is not hating. Get over it, baby.
“And due to your atheism, I have to live next door to the guy who’s watching snuff porn and scoping his next victim.”
What a steaming pile of burning stupid. That’s all I have to say.
I can see now that Ray has step up to defend Jesus and the Almighty God against us puny earthlings, it’s gonna be a long night.
Off to bed…
Your neigbor is Mel Gibson? While I am really very sorry for that unfortunate fact, it isn’t our fault. In the meantime, I’ll pray for you.
we hate all that you believe
I don’t hate any belief; I don’t even know how to do that. But I do regret that there are so many people who believe so much nonsense, and that that belief in nonsense has significant negative effects, and I do despise self-serving liars and hypocrites like Ray.
Wowbagger,
If your hero didn’t believe in the Holy Eucharist, he should not have gone to church. You say you don’t hte Christians, yet you call our Lord a cracker…need I say more. Perhaps I should draw a picture for you. When you belittle the beliefs of another, you are expressing hatred. For Catholics, the Eucharist is sacred….nobody has the right to taek the Holy Eucharist from the church for their own purposes…if you don’t believe, stay away….if you choose to receive the Holy Eucharist, Catholics have every right to demand that you treat it with respect. To say othersie is hate….need a picture?
Ray blathered:
And due to your atheism, I have to live next door to the guy who’s watching snuff porn and scoping his next victim
I’m tempted to say this is the stupidest thing Ray’s written, but he’s getting more incoherent with each post, so I won’t.
You’d better put on a tinfoil hat, Ray. Maybe he picks out his victims via satellite. You might be next if you aren’t protected!
Jackass.
The desecration of the Eucharist, the body of the one God, is extremely imprudent, regardless of what you believe or what point you are trying to make. There are things unseen at work, the consequences of which you do not know.
Who do you think you are? Victor Van Helsing?
Grow the fuck up.
Hey Ken,
And due to your atheism
Yeah, it’s all your fault, Ken. We should report your atheist conspiracy to force Ken to watch his neighbor’s porn to the proper authorities.
damn, Ray is a complete nutter.
“We don’t hate all those that believe, we hate all that you believe, but keep posting fatuous nonsense,”
Speak for yourself.
I don’t hate anything. I don’t hate what they believe anymore than I hate Santa. I think its silly and foolish and delusional for adults to believe it, and I think they if they think they’re going to demand I respect their stupidity, they’ve got another thing coming.
But I don’t hate that they believe. Really, if they want to believe, that’s their loss, their problem. I’m just going to try my damnedest to make sure that they don’t make it my problem or the problem of other innocents.
“if you don’t believe, stay away”
Five words: Then get the fuck out!
Take your own bloody advice! You don’t accept our beliefs, so learn from your own “wisdom” and take off!
Ray sez:
And due to your atheism, I have to live next door to the guy who’s watching snuff porn and scoping his next victim.
Damnit! Who let Ray read our secret atheist master plan? Seriously. Whoever it was had better bring some Christian baby cake to the next meeting. This sets back our snuff porn distribution schedule back at least a month; but at least we can use the time to better aerosolize our virus for spreading homosexuality.
ray writes
“For Catholics, the Eucharist is sacred….nobody has the right to taek the Holy Eucharist from the church for their own purposes…if you don’t believe, stay away….if you choose to receive the Holy Eucharist, Catholics have every right to demand that you treat it with respect.”
We take to task your presumption that the cracker is the body of Christ. What you fail to question is how this can be so.
Wowbagger,
The only jackasses here are those who sit on their high-horses, hate-filled and condescending while pretending to be enlightened intellectuals. You, my friend, fit that category quite well.
Jackass.
And due to your atheism, I have to live next door to the guy who’s watching snuff porn and scoping his next victim.
Despicable lies and stupidity.
When I complain about this, I’m told “don’t watch it” or “turn the channel.”
You’re incoherent.
Why must you pour your hatred and bigotry upon those of us who choose to save our souls by following the words of Christ?
I despise you because you’re a disgusting lying asshole and troll. If you don’t want me to pour my hatred on you, simply go away.
And due to your atheism, I have to live next door to the guy who’s watching snuff porn and scoping his next victim.
Well, as a catholic, Ray, you are falling down on the job, I must say. Your impassioned pleas to the magic cookie for a new neighbor don’t seem to be having any effect.
force
KenRayEveryone here could do with spending at least 2 hours a day browsing 4chan, simply to educate themselves on what a troll is and how to deal with them.
It is not “reply to them as if they’re real”. It’s also not “reply to them as if they’re real, but include ‘…you’re a troll’ at the end of the reply”.
It’s just ignore them. Completely.
Saddest thing is, it’s often difficult to tell a troll from a dull, dense or ignorant religious fanatic.
Really?
Damn you, ARPANET, and your e-mail technology!
<giggle>
You forgot to add you’re not a lawyer.
Ray, you can do one of two things: pull your period key from your keyboard with a pair of pliers or use one of these on your right pinky. I’m praying for you!!! =D
Everyone here could do with spending at least 2 hours a day browsing 4chan, simply to educate themselves on what a troll is and how to deal with them.
I’m praying for your pompous ass.
What the hell kind of mash-up is that? “Atomic nucleus”??? Do people still say that? “Known matter”? What about the unknown matter? Is that the juristiction of a different sky-fairy?
Listen – ‘poetic’ crap like that might get you approving nods at bible-readings, but carries little weight here.
You’re a maniac wearing a tinfoil-hat, trying to convince us that “UFO’s must exist, because otherwise you wouldn’t be wearing a tinfoil hat, would you?”
Your neighbor is Mel Gibson?
LOL
truth machine,
your hatred is clear….you’re so insecure, you can’t even use your own name…truth machine? Please….the only truth you seem to know is hatred and despair.
Sad.
Ray, #578
You’ve been sucking anti-freeze out of your radiator again, haven’t you Ray?
No-one with a reasonable grip on both their sanity and the english language is going to agree with you on that one. You’re a fool and you’re beginning to bore me – and i’ve got a high threshold for teh stupid.
Moron.
All the known matter in the universe could not have been contained within an atomic nucleus without the power of God.
Posted by: Ray | July 17, 2008 12:26 AM
Why must you use one fairy tale to invoke another?
Charlie Foxtrot,
Come on Charlie….you and all your atheist friends love to sit around lampooning those who believe in Christ, while you pat yourselves on the back over the genious of things such as “the Big Bang Theory” or “life evolved from nothing”….and you say we’re the ones who believe in fairy tales?
“Why must you pour your hatred and bigotry…”
And I’ll say this once again.
Criticism of an idea IS never, CAN never be bigotry.
It can be correct or incorrect, rude, funny, a matter of opinion. But it is NEVER bigotry.
ALL IDEAS are fair game for criticism.
If you call criticism of your ideas bigotry, you’re not only incorrect, you’re a coward and you’re disgusting.
A coward because rather than defend your indefensibly stupid ideas, you try to shield them from any scrutiny.
Disgusting because you hijack the experiences of those who have been the brunt of TRUE bigotry due to an innate characteristic such as race, gender, or sexual identity in your cynical and cowardly attempt to shield your IDEAS from scrutiny.
Criticizing yours or anyone’s beliefs cannot possibly make someone a bigot.
Your saying that can possibly and almost certainly makes your a reprehensible shithead.
Ray, seriously. Pick up a book like The Fabric of the Cosmos by Brian Greene. Read it all the way through. Take good notes. Then sit on it and ponder it for a while. Then read it through again. Then a third time.
Familiarize yourself with how astonishing, surprising and perplexing our universe really is. What you’ll find is a lot of intriguing questions and problems, but none of them are of the nature that you described. You’ll realize just how ignorant a statement like “the matter of the universe could not be contained within the nucleus of a single atom” is.
OH fucking yawn.
Ray is baked.
move on.
Bigotry: ridiculing someone because of something they’re born with, i.e. race, gender, etc.
Not bigotry: ridiculing someone because they choose to believe something silly and demand that everybody respect it.
You’re very stupid, Ray.
I wrote this item in another topic but had no takers so I thought I might see if ray could take a go at it.
It struck me today that I am ignorant of the means by which the first members of the Christian religion who instituted the ritual of the Eucharist were able to discern whether they had succeeded in accomplishing the actual transubstantiation effect if ,being human, they are not able to detect a difference in the “substance” but only in the “accidents” of material things.
After all, one should be certain of such a thing before invoking the obedience of one’s flock to partake of this ritual wouldn’t you think?
How about it ray?
Any believers out there with some insight to this situation?
Has anyone likened this situation to flag burning yet? Near as I can tell, the situation is fairly analogous. On the one hand, I think PZ should respect the wishes of Catholics as a kind of humanistic compromise. But on the other hand, I think desecrating a host is perfectly permissible as an expression of freedom of speech.
your hatred is clear
I’m certainly not hiding the fact that I think you’re a despicable lying scumbag troll. But you seem to love it, and want more, else you would stop trolling here. You’re a lowly lying piece of shit and, if your God exists, YOU will spend an eternity in hell for being such an incredible sinner.
I wonder what percentage of troll threads are devoted to giving advice on how to deal with the troll, whether it IS a troll, what KIND of troll it is, why aren’t people ignoring the troll, wouldn’t it be better if we stopped feeding the troll, etc.
I guess I should spend two hours a day reading 4chan to find out.
And I say this only to elevate the discussion here:
The length of a curve defined by a function from points a to b is the integral from a to b of the square root of the sum of one and the square of the derivative of the function.
And so on.
Once for every constituent piece of matter in a mole.
That is an obvious lie. Ray is kenny and several hundred other aliases. His neighbor is wacko. Not surprising, Kenny/Ray/etc. has been locked up in a mental hospital for years.
His fellow inmates undoubtedly think he is crazy even by lunatic asylum standards.
Ray: “Why must you pour your hatred and bigotry upon those of us who choose to save our souls by following the words of Christ?”
Hate is a very strong word, Ray. I don’t hate anyone. However it’s obvious the world would be better off if there weren’t so many people willing to believe in medieval bullshit, including your Christ bullshit. I notice the daily Muslim suicide bombings, the Jewish “God gave us this land so get out”, and the Christian harassment of biology teachers. Religious insanity is completely out of control, and it’s getting worse, not better. Many atheists choose to ignore religious idiots, and perhaps that’s a good idea. I prefer to fight back. Ridicule has been shown to work. Where I live in Florida, constant ridicule of religious assholes saved our new public school science standards from religious attacks.
These are some of the reasons Catholics are ridiculed when they go nuts because of worthless crackers. If religious people kept to themselves, let science teachers do their jobs, didn’t blow themselves up in crowds, gave up their religious wars, and did not make death threats when their crackers aren’t respected, I would be happy to ignore their breathtaking stupidity.
Oh, by the way, Ray, there are no souls, and your Christ is a myth.
Craig, #601, wrote:
Craig, I’ve highlighted everything in your post that I feel Ray, most likely, won’t be able to do. I was tossing up whether he’d be able to pick up the book in the first place – he may not have evolved opposable thumbs just yet – but someone’s taught him how to type (pity about spelling and sentence construction) so maybe, just maybe, he can manage that unaided.
Just trying to work out what ‘ponder’ will probably keep him busy for a few hours.
On the one hand, I think PZ should respect the wishes of Catholics as a kind of humanistic compromise.
Catholics wish for women to kill themselves with coathangers, among other things.
Uh, guys? Ray is obviously trolling. Stop feeding the trolls with your delicious attention.
I personally like to lampoon someone who doesn’t know how to spell “genius” as much as I do those who believe in invisible deities.
Anonymous @590.
Around here, trolls are punching-bags.
Ignoring them makes them disappear before we can have some fun.
I’m not saying they’re welcome, but you know, lemons and lemonade…
Anonymous #590
Saddest thing is, it’s often difficult to tell a troll from a dull, dense or ignorant religious fanatic.
With regard to religious fundamentalists, that’s called Poe’s Law.
aporetical
websters.com:
Bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance.
You are all bigots…congrats!!
It’s shit and shit salad. Duh.
Ray is obviously Kenny.
I just wonder how the fuck someone in a psych ward gets access to a PC and the net and an endless stream of proxies.
“Ray is kenny and several hundred other aliases.”
Ray, if that’s true, and I think it is true, go fuck yourself.
This is a very hateful thing to write. Your blog, and your actions are reprehensible. You do not have to believe our faith, but desecrating that which is sacred to us is a hateful, evil act, at least on par with painting swastikas on a synagogue, or burning a cross. I hope you someday see your error, but in any event, it is hope that the University of Minnesota will fire you immediately, because the bigotry that you espouse should not be allowed any forum in a public university.
Whooooa. PZ is srs bsnss.
And because he is desecrating the wafer, the RNC needs security to protect them against people who read his blog…….?
Am I really missing something? I don’t see as much specific protest about how utterly bizarre a connection that is as I’d expect to see. What in blazes has wafergate got to do with anything to do with Republicans, or their convention, or any sort of real life occurrences?
truth machine,
oh, aren’t you clever with the coat hanger quote…what we wish for is people to commit to sacramental marriages and to stop the slaughter of the unborn. Big difference.
Truth machine…
“I’m certainly not hiding the fact that I think you’re a despicable lying scumbag troll. But you seem to love it, and want more, else you would stop trolling here. You’re a lowly lying piece of shit and, if your God exists, YOU will spend an eternity in hell for being such an incredible sinner.”
You seem to not quite understand what a troll is. A troll is not merely someone who posts nasty, stupid, ignorant or questionable material.
A troll is someone who does this *specifically to get an angry response*. The response is fun to them. That is why they do it.
By responding like this, all you’re doing is ensuring that whoever Ray really is, he’s having a great time. Probably got a few chat windows open, sending links to the comments of people replying to him to all his friends and they’re having a great time laughing it up.
“Don’t feed the troll” is the best damn defence against them. Completely ignore it.
*Any* response that treats *any* of the their post seriously, even if you include “you’re a troll” somewhere in it, means they’re getting exactly the response they want. So stop replying, and they go away (or their posts get more and more inflammatory, which is a sure sign of a troll fishing for replies, which is what’s happening with Ray).
I’m trying to help you folk here, not mock you.
I’m not sure, but it probably has something to do with barfing up his meds back up for the other patients.
Thanks for nothing, Dustin. I found it on YouTube.
If I said I was currently urinating on a stack of “consecrated” wafers, would any of these batshit Craplicks even care? Or do they need someone like Donahue to tell them to be outraged? Does the heathen need to be relatively high-profile like PZ? Does my blog entry need to be picked up by Drudge? It seems like there’s probably all kinds of “blasphemy” going on all over the world on a daily basis. Unless it’s shoved in the faces of the Craplicks and they’re pumped full of “you aughta be outraged!” from their puppet masters, they’re totally ignorant. Wait, they are anyway.
It’s beside the point, however, since I’d just as soon urinate on a “consecrated” wafer as a Ritz. They’re both fucking crackers.
desecrating that which is sacred to us is a hateful, evil act, at least on par with painting swastikas on a synagogue, or burning a cross
Despicable lying scumbag. And lets not forget that those are Christian acts.
BobC,
I have no idea who Kenny is…but in any event, nice atheistic language…you do your people proud!!
I don’t think he’s Kenny – unless he’s actually read something about NDE’s since he’s been dungeoned and stopped believing that’s evidence for god.
Ray wrote:
As many of us have said, Ray – it’s your ideas and beliefs we’re criticising, so it’s not bigotry. Saying what you’ve said makes you an idiot whether you’re a christian or not.
And due to your atheism, I have to live next door to the guy who’s watching snuff porn and scoping his next victim
MEL GIBSON!!! It’s only an accident my Captain Morgan’s didn’t spew all over the monitor.
Encrypt your cardboard box’s wireless server. When the GOP Taliban shows up without a FISA warrant, they’ll haul you away too.
Wowbagger,
Criticising someone’s ideas and beliefs is bigotry. Saying otherwise makes you an idiot.
Anonymous, thanks for your demonstration of concern trolling.
Because we didn’t know that.
I have no idea who Kenny is
let’s find out if that’s true…
NDE’s are teh bunk.
it’s your ideas and beliefs we’re criticising
It’s his behavior I’m criticizing: trolling, lying, generally be an asshole. That’s quite aside from whatever silliness he believes.
That’s what I’m here for.
@Ray
Your organised delusion had to give up on Flat-Earth when presented with facts, give up Geo-Centrism when presented with facts, most of you have given up Creationism now presented with facts – reality is hemming in and snuffing out your magical-thinking…
can you hear it? tick tick tick… its coming for you… that’s the real world you can hear out there…
Breakfast #623
If hordes of people show up at the RNC convention to protest the poor economy, the mortgage crisis and lender bail out, endless war, rising deficits, warrantless wiretaps, and countless other Republican fiascoes, they can turn around say it’s the atheists! They hate us for our religion!
Can’t say that I’m much for vandalism, but cross-burning sounds like fun. I bet your little symbol of death will combust real nicely.
Criticising someone’s ideas and beliefs is bigotry. Saying otherwise makes you an idiot.
Only an idiot would think so. I don’t think even you are that stupid; you’re simply lying. And, of course, trolling.
Jeremy,
You are a sick and twisted individual, and sadly, quite representative of most on this blog. I will pray for you (and all the other hellbound here)
“Anonymous, thanks for your demonstration of concern trolling.
Because we didn’t know that.”
You readin’ this thread? Because it’s pretty clear that people here don’t know it.
Jay Di Silvestri, are you sure you want to compare the desecration of a cracker to the Ku Klux Klan’s (a Christian organization) burning of a cross?
I would compare the ridicule of your magical crackers to the drawing of a cartoon of Mohammed. There’s no reason to respect your insanity mister. If you Catholic idiots didn’t go batshit crazy when somebody refused to eat your Jebus cracker, there would be no reason to make fun of it.
Don’t be stupid.
And don’t treat US as stupid.
Jay di Silvestri,
Sigh. Is there some sort of idiot tag-team device out there that you people are hooked up to? Did someone just flash the cracker symbol, batman style, into the clouds as a moron call to arms?
Read the post from the start. All of your stupid non-arguments have already been refuted. Just pretend your name is Ray and we’ve said what we said to him in the last hour or so to you instead.
Because it’s pretty clear that people here don’t know it.
erroneous conclusion.
stop.
now.
“Criticising someone’s ideas and beliefs is bigotry. Saying otherwise makes you an idiot.”
You just CRITICIZED wowbaggers idea and belief that all ideas are open to criticism.
You stupid fuck.
That is simply insane. That’s an argument that no ideas or beliefs should ever be criticized. So the next time someone criticizes evolutionary theory, or atheism, or my taste in pants, I get to accuse them of bigotry?
Kook.
I’m trying to help you folk here, not mock you.
Fuck off, you pompous ass.
Ray: “I will pray for you”
That’s Christian code for “fuck you”.
Fuck you too Ray. You’re a shit for brains asshole.
Ray, is there any Catholic bullshit you DON’T believe?
Do you believe everything your pope tells you to believe, no matter how idiotic it is?
DLux: I have to know…are you in Omaha?
Sigh. Is there some sort of idiot tag-team device out there that you people are hooked up to?
that would be the Catholic League, wouldn’t it?
Apparently more energy and focus than even muslim extremists, with at least as much ignorance and stupidity thrown in for good measure.
Though I rather thought there were some posts in the thread on desecrating the Qu’ran that would give the Catholic League drones a run for their money.
bigot |ˈbigət|
noun
a person who is bigoted See note at religious zealot .
ORIGIN late 16th cent.(denoting a superstitious religious hypocrite): from French, of unknown origin.
Thesaurus
bigot
noun
chauvinist, partisan, sectarian; racist, sexist, homophobe, dogmatist, jingoist. See note at zealot .
Sound familiar Ray?
Let he who casts the first stone etc…
mayhempix,
I am none of these…while your atheistic friends here are…can’t handle the title of BIGOT now can you????
Oh noes, the society is built on bigotry, what with all the debates and education. Seriously, Ray, come back after you’ve completed grade school.
Hey PZ,
Didya know about the squid disection that the Museum Victoria was doing today?
(Link at #377)
Just checking here — do you have some kind of neurological disorder which prevents you from controlling the number of times your right pinky comes down on the bottom row of your keyboard? Because I don’t want to make fun of you if you do.
Ray, please answer my question. Is there any Catholic bullshit you DON’T believe, or do you buy all of it? I’m just trying to find out how gullible you are.
BobC,
I believe EVERYTHING the Pope says since he is the Vicor of Christ, the heir to St. Peter…you should too, and the first thing you can do is put some soap in your mouth you nasty boy, you….
Is soap the Catholic code-word for “penis”?
@ray
Ray, don’t you find it even more weird that you call a cracker your lord?
I am none of these…while your atheistic friends here are…can’t handle the title of BIGOT now can you????
Do you have a picture of yourself I can add to the definition here?
“Oh noes, the society is built on bigotry, what with all the debates and education. “
Yes, that’s why these righteous Christians oppose science at every turn. They’re fighting the evil hatred and bigotry that science requires to advance.
Those sick, bigoted scientists with their journals of bigotry – Science and Nature, consisting of nothing but these bigoted scientists continual attempts to oppress each other.
“I believe EVERYTHING the Pope says since he is the Vicor of Christ, the heir to St. Peter”
OK. Thanks for answering my question. Now I’m absolutely certain you’re a stupid asshole.
Christ save me. I can no longer handle Ray’s capital bigot.
Heck, I’ll take on Donahue for his Irish-ness: where does an Irishman get off telling a Hispanic how to express his Catholic faith? ;-)
Yeah, we’re deep into troll country, now.
“I believe EVERYTHING the Pope says since he is the Vicor of Christ, the heir to St. Peter”
So since he directed that child rapists in the priesthood be hidden and protected from prosecution, you think that’s good too?
You sick fuck.
Ray, do you like little boys?
do you have some kind of neurological disorder which prevents you from controlling the number of times your right pinky comes down on the bottom row of your keyboard?
strangely enough, I’ve notice that the insane often misuse ellipses.
I think they are trying to physically demonstrate that their brain is working overtime to spin up irrational defense mechanisms.
You’ll note the amount of projection and denial exhibited by them is proportional to the number of misused ellipses.
craig,
That is an outright lie and you know it…if it makes you feel good to falsely impune the Vicar of Christ, then by all means, do what you must (at the cost of your soul)….but please, state facts, not fairy tales!
Ok, I knew Ray was a troll, but now I suspect he’s probably not even religious. Just bored.
The “superstitious religious hypocrite” known as Ray has put me to sleep… good night all.
Re: DKEW #480
It really should be breast-beating. That’s a demonstrable display of remorse. After it became known that Mrs. Kroll had been fired there were several posts to the effect that they did not intend to get anyone fired, that they regretted she got fired and some noted that they were going to write to 800-Flowers to ask if they would reconsider. I think that is a kind of demonstration of remorse which would generally come under the definition of breast-beating.
BobC,
As are you.
Ray, you’re funny.
But Ray is a little boy… Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Brownian, OM,
Thanks!!
Yeah, it’s turned into a real moron-a-thon here, and I’m all out of troll-food.
Ray, since you blindly believe everything the pope says, you most certainly believe in the Resurrection. The Resurrection has some problems. Your dead Jebus was decomposing for 3 days, his internal organs were rotting, his corpse was infested with maggots, and the smell was horrible. What I’m wondering is, how can you be so hopelessly stupid to believe this idiotic story? Are you insane? What’s your problem, moron?
The scientific, atheistic hypocrite known as mayhempix has kept me awake….bring it on!!
BobC,
Of course I believe in the resuurection…don’t you? Since Christ was the Son of God, His body was glorified, and thus incapable of decay…read your Bible BobC, you need an education!!
Ray, I am really serious this time. Stay in school. Learn some grammer and learn how to spell. God knows you need it.
…under the definition of breast-beating.
Posted by: Max Verret | July 17, 2008 1:29 AM
I prefer breast-feeding myself.
A final good night.
A few people brought up celiacs. I’m not sure if they were real questions or just snarky comments, but here is an answer: The Church allows people with celiacs two options. They can take a low gluten host or they can choose to receive only the wine if they talk to the priest about it first. Catholic teaching states that the fullness of the body and blood of Christ exists in either of the species of the Eucharist. In other words, if you just take the bread or you just take the wine you get everything you need. This is also convenient for alcoholics. So yes, there is a way for them to “stay in the club.” I know that doesn’t have anything to do with the conversation but hopefully some of you appreciate the little piece of trivia. Of course, I contribute this information with the hope that you don’t start trying to desecrate the wine too.
Jebus was dead for 3 days but he didn’t decompose. You’re really proud of your stupidity, aren’t you?
How about evolution? You accept it? Do you agree people, including Jebus, share an ancestor with the chimps?
Learn some grammer and learn how to spell.
Ahem.
Brian,
You do a great job of imparting God’s teachings until you get trite and state “This is also convenient for alcoholics. So yes, there is a way for them to “stay in the club.”” Perhaos this was just a snarky comment on your part.
Your logic just blew my mind. Why, I haven’t heard logic like that since before I thought girls were icky.
I’m calling Poe
Ray is not a bad specimen… but I’ve seen better.
It’s cute to see a creature so starved for affection that even disdain is seen as a balm. You done a good thing, Brownian.
BobC,
Simply put…NO, I do not believe people share an ancestor with the chimps. Do you exibit such faith?
Brian, #686
Thanks for explaining that. That was a point raised by several people over the posts on the topic.
Is that doctrine, though, or just an arrangement made by some (dare I say) liberal priests to their individual communities?
For someone who BELIEVES everything the Pope says, Ray sure hasen’t bothered to familiarise himself with much of what he has said, in this case the Crimen Sollicitationis he wrote in 2001. Of course, he wasn’t the Pope at that time, so Catholics are all off the hook.
Whee! Hooray for moral loopholes!
Pretty sure the Pope does.
Where does that put you? Troll or blasphemer?
You all are a hoot…I’m sure Satan is licking his chops over the likes of you….but I do have a job (white collar by the way…do know how to manage and spell), so I must sign off….hopefully see all you hell-bound atheists here again soon.
-Ray
Oh the shame. No, actually it was meant to be ironic. Get it? No? Okay, I’ll just stop embarrassing myself now.
I’m calling Poe
Poe? I’m not certain Ray’s passed the Turing Test yet.
Yet, that’s rather the point of Poe. There is nothing so batshit insane that somebody sincere won’t actually shout it at us with multiple exclamation marks. Mock ’em all, I say.
I tried the Wordle thing again (click name for link) and this time, using the url for this post rather than the main page, get visible ‘Crackers’ (with and without capitalization). Still no ‘fucktard’, though… I wonder if Wordle’s algorithm includes a profanity filter?
Nope Ray, it’s a documented fact, the pope authored a policy of protecting priests from accusations.
You’re funny, Ray, but I doubt you’re a Catholic.
Ah. Obviously, Ray doesn’t believe EVERYTHING the Pope says.
I’m calling Poe
Once again, you have Poe’s Law backwards. You can only use it to argue that something isn’t a parody of religious thought, not that it is, because no matter how ludicrous the thought is, there’s someone who actually believes it.
Born, raised, and practicing Craig. And your accusation is quite false.
Ray is a creationist.
Ray, you’re the reason I ridicule Christians. Your denial of evolution requires the rejection of almost every branch of science. To be a creationist a person has to go way out of his way to know nothing. I never meant a creationist who wasn’t willfully ignorant.
The problem with creationists is not their hopeless stupidity. Their problem is their never ending attacks against science education, and their brainwashing of young gullible children. The creationists are good for nothing but slowing down human progress and the world would be better off to be rid of them.
By the way your previous pope accepted evolution. Apparently you only agree with the pope when he invokes the Christian Sky Fairy.
If you’re a celiac alcoholic, that’s God’s way of telling you that he doesn’t want you.
Actually the NEW Pope doesn’t believe in evolution, if I remember correctly.
The OLD Pope John Paul II did, issued an encyclical or whatever the fuck they’re called stated that evolution had enough proof it must be considered as fact. This after Paul whateverthefuck had proclaimed it as a reasonable theory back in the 60s.
So, since Popes are infallible, that means that up until a few years ago, our ancestors were shared with chimps… but *poof*, reality got changed recently. Not our idea of what happened, but literally WHAT HAD HAPPENED.
Amazing shit, that popitude stuff.
I’m sure Satan is licking his chops over the likes of you…
Satan has chops? And a tongue? And, I suppose, hooves and horns and is red.
These cretins want us to respect these beliefs?
As long as you don’t harm or endanger any kittehs while you’re at it, it’s all good. Kittehs have the right of way at all times. It’s an Internet tradition that, sad to say, some people aren’t aware of.
=^.^=
Imagine being represented by that braying Foley fool.
But then again, see what the US is represented by . . .
wow wow WOW
are you people kidding me? i thought you were my rational cohorts.
being a citizen of Denver,the city is getting prepared for protests on an epic fucking leveal.and that is the democrat convention
i will assure you right now,and please,mark my words,pointing out atheist protesters at the republican convention would be like pointing out WALDO AS HONG KIONG BURNS TO THE GROUND
youve got to be kidding me
Ray,
I mentioned the thing about comments to simply point out that they share a similar burden as those who suffer from celiacs. As for the “staying in the club” part, I was quoting a previous post. Yes, it was probably snarky but it was actually aimed at those arguing with you. I take it back.
Wowbagger,
Thats the teaching of the US Catholic Bishops. My understanding is that there is still some confusion between the US teaching and the teaching of Rome, but I’m not knowledgeable enough to comment on that. Since you bring it up, the arrangement of (liberal) priests is to consecrate a rice wafer. This is against the rules that state the host must be made of wheat. Sorry, I don’t remember why it should be wheat though.
…and the Pope’s own beliefs.
Uh-oh, SpaghettiOs!
I need a fix cuz I’m going down
Down to the bits that I left uptown
I need a fix cuz I’m going down
Mother Superior jumped the gun
Mother Superior jumped the gun
Mother Superior jumped the gun
Mother Superior jumped the gun
Happineth
Ith a warm thyberpithtol
Happineth
Ith a warm thyberpithtol
Type type post post
Always amazes me. When I first read about the catholic church at the age of four, I seriously thought that I was reading a piece of fiction.
The same argument could be used to defend bank-robbers from being incarcerated since ‘their children might have no food tonight.’ You really don’t get it, do you? The husband made the death threats using his wife’s email account (who apparently is not that sorry about that either). All people did here was forward it to the company which decided to fire her. Nobody here is responsible for sending the threats nor firing her. Actions do have consequences, as this moron catholic husband should have known! It appears that the moral guidance given by your holy text is not worth much. Almost all atheists I know have a better developed moral compass than a lot of religious people I know (but some Xtians do have a good moral compass, but this came not about by the holy book but by what they were taught by others!)
Xtians do seem to have trouble with metaphors.
On the matter of celiacs and the crackers, since it keeps coming up… The crackers apparently must be made of wheat. But! Catholics believe that, since Jesus is risen, his body and blood are inseparable, and thus contained in both bread and wine. So you could just drink the wine and be ok. If you’re a celiac with an allergy to grapes or alcohol, though… tough! It’s hell for you!
Oh, and for crying out loud – nobody claims that you can tell the difference between jebusitized crackers and regular crackers. My personal favorite desecration scenario – Draw faces and tape speech balloons to ’em. Have them act out little plays.
Troll Ray blathers:
And due to your atheism, I have to live next door to the guy who’s watching snuff porn and scoping his next victim. When I complain about this, I’m told “don’t watch it” or “turn the channel.”
That’s quite a consequence! Which other Catholic is forced to live next door to a snuff porn watcher because of my atheisim? I’m jealous! Ken! Where do I get my Catholic?
Wait a minute, Troll Ray, “don’t watch it or turn the channel”? You’re watching snuff porn too!?!
“Satan has chops? And a tongue? And, I suppose, hooves and horns and is red.”
Ya know, I’ve sometimes wondered why these dipshits don’t boycott Underwood Deviled Ham since it has a picture of ***SATAN*** on the package.
Reminds me of back when I worked for Fisher-Price and got a call from a woman in Texas, upset that she walked into her kids room and saw the Activity Center (what some call a busy box) in the crib, and since a spinner had a star on it, and the star happened to be positioned upside-down at the moment, she wanted a refund.
Apparently an upside-down star is a “satanic symbol.”
We also got tons of calls because churches were circulating memos saying that one kids’ tape has lyrics “seek the devil” in them.
(It was an old, traditional nonsense rhyme and the words were “seek a double.”)
There is no underestimating the level of stupidity the religious can display.
Yep – the new pope has replaced the old vatican’s chief astronomer with someone more wishy-washy on evolution.
Link
Smacks more of typical earthly political machinations that divine inspirations.
Funny that…
We’re not dealing with normal Catholics here. Donohue, oddly, appears to reject evolution, so he’s definite on the fringe.
I’m sure that most Catholics rank wafer abuse well below altar boy abuse (and lots of former altar boys confess to wafer abuse).
I wonder, though, if P.Z. isn’t hoaxing us. He’s going to subject stacks of unconsecrated wafers to unspecified acts of desecration and then say, “Hah hah, fooled you.”
He probably has been sent consecrated wafers, though (we his minions are a devious and resourceful sort) but he may conceivably have been sent unconsecrated wafers by equally crafty mackerel snappers (call it a denial of service attack). Are they all worth desecrating?
Perhaps some consecrated hosts arrived from trusted minions which could be taken seriously… except, of course, they couldn’t. “Hoc est corpus.” Seriously?
Craig, the devil deviled the double.
The OLD Pope John Paul II did, issued an encyclical or whatever the fuck they’re called stated that evolution had enough proof it must be considered as fact
There’s no such thing as “enough proof”; the proper phrase is “enough evidence”. He accepted evolution “as an effectively proven fact.”
Jesus is risen? crackers? there’s a yeast joke in there somewhere.
thanks for the link, CF.
‘There’s no such thing as “enough proof”; the proper phrase is “enough evidence”. He accepted evolution “as an effectively proven fact.””
yeah, yeah, fine, annoyance machine. Gimme a fucking break, it’s late and I’m dizzy.
I read all 481 comments.Wow,all over a fucking cracker!
Peace be with you all. My name is Jason. I’m 20 and I am Roman Catholic. First of all I think it’s important to note that I am not here to condemn anyone. I think the problem here is that people just don’t understand. The Catholic Church no longer says that if you are not Catholic you are going to hell. Infact we have come to say that we as the Church founded by Christ (Who by the way is a historical figure) do hold the fullness of truth but that there are truths in other Christian denominations and even in other religions. God is the source of all good. God is love and there is definately good happening through other religions. Because there is that good we believe that there too is Christ. Even atheists, which I assume most of you are, do good things. I’m sure most of you have family and friends who you care about. I’m sure that most of you would prefer to help people rather than hurt them. This is also a good and thus God is in that whether He is recognized or not. So as a Church we believe that you don’t necessarily have to be Catholic to go to heaven. Now with the most holy Eucharist we believe and profess that the bread and wine at the words of consecration become for us the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. That host becomes Christ. Our God is there with us in that moment. He loves us so much that He was willing to humble Himself by becoming one of us in everything but sin. At the last supper the night before He died he took the bread gave it to His disciples and said, “take this all of you and eat it. This is my body, which will be given up for you.”(Refering to His death on the cross.) After the supper had ended He took the cup. Again He gave thanks and praise to the Father. He gave it to His disciples and said, “take this all of you and drink from it. This is the cup of my blood. The blood of the new and everlasting covanent. It will be shed for you and for all so that sins will be forgiven. Do this in memory of me.”(Again He is refering to His blood being shed on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins.) But He also said to remember Him by doing the same thing that He did. So when you refer to the consecrated host as a “cracker” and threaten to abuse it and defile it to us as Catholics you must know that you are doing those things to Christ. He is present there in that host. It is a spiritual presence. We can not see Him. The host does not change physically, but we believe He is there. That is why it is offensive. By the way there have been instances where the host has actually transformed into actual flesh or even pieces of a heart. And the wine has changed to real blood. There was once a priest who did not believe in the real presence and as he raised the host after consecration, it became a piece of an actual heart. Lets just say that afterwards he believed. You can look up the miracles online and I would highly recommend it. It’s very interesting. If you have any questions let me know. God Bless.
On Friday the Catholic League reported that Thomas E. Foley, a Virginia delegate to the Republican National Convention (RNC) in Minneapolis has asked that increased security be considered for the event in light of Myers’ threat to acquire and desecrate the Eucharist.
Wait…so…the Republicans are having a mass at their convention???
Or are the Republicans perhaps bringing consecrated hosts to the convention with them? No, no, that can’t be. Those security nuns would be tackling them ’em before they got out of the church, especially now that the threat level in churches has been raised.
So, what the ????
Jason, yes, we get Homoiousianism.
It’s old stuff.
“So, what the ????”
Maybe its just because, what with god being all desecrated and stuff, he won’t be able to protect them anymore?
Jason #728
Jesus is a historical fact! The Jesus of the Bible? Where is your evidence? What have you been eating, crackers?
I think some of them aren’t consecrated. Catholic News Agency said he got one wafer on Friday, but no services were held from the time he first asked for them (earlier that week) until Friday, so I don’t see how they would have been consecrated. On the other hand, if he received some early this week, then may be.
Jason, I was almost starting to think you were not too deluded for a Catholic until I read your “By the way there have been instances where the host has actually transformed into actual flesh or even pieces of a heart. And the wine has changed to real blood.”
That’s really nuts man. Really batshit crazy. Do you know what the word ‘gullible’ means?
Troll Ray
I will not countenance Ray Troll being maligned in these threads!
Ken! Where do I get my Catholic?
Dunno. Mel Gibson won’t be streaming porn off of my router, whether he tries to tap my pre-N Ankh-Morpork, or my B&G Lancre. That would require numeracy, and some really patient decryption software.
If you click on my name, that guy I’m pictured with drinking beer in Berkeley is not a Catholic, but I think most of us here would be honored to have him as a neighbor.
Ray is a fake and a troll.Same BS about public school teachers abusing kids like under different name in the cracker thread.Then again,who cares.
And still flogging the dead horse.
Jason,
We’ve had all of this explained to us many times; by many commenters on many posts. I don’t think there’s anyone here who isn’t aware of what you, as a catholic, believe happens.
And that isn’t the point. It’s not even close to the point. Please read the post from the start (or, better yet, start at the very beginning with PZ’s first post on the issue) and save yourself a lot of time and energy.
Wear it with pride: PZ “Cyberpistol” Meyers. Got a nice ring to it, don’t it?
You should look into getting a sidekick. Call him “the Empirical kid.”
BTW, Jason, I was once an (supposedly Catholic yet de-facto atheist) altar-boy back in the day. I recognise the snippets of liturgy in your post – I feel sad about those neurons I waste on retaining guff such as that.
Pray for me, will ya? ;)
nice example of stream of consciousness writing, Jason.
why do you believe in miracles?
Jason=Ray=Kenny
Off to watch the Pope on TV.
At #62, Kobra said:
Is a cyberpistol a way to compensate for a small e-penis?
Ah, that might explain Foley’s concerns about P.Z.’s being cocked.
btw PZ,im your cyberholster
you sexy thang
So remind me the point of being a christian again.
But not humble enough to convert me personally.
Being offended doesn’t mean you are right.
Okay, but did you know that pigs could talk? Don’t believe me? Well, there have been instances where pigs have been seen talking. There were movies made about it. Let’s just say that after watching the movie I believed.
Mr. Morales,
Homoiousianism is very old indeed. It dates to the 4th century and comes out of the Arian controversy. Of course, Jason wasn’t saying anything about the relationship between the substance of God the Father and Jesus the Son so I don’t understand why it was introduced here. In fact, I don’t see how it applies at all.
This controversy has been wonderful because it introduced me to the scienceblogs. I’ve spent a lot of time reading these and I find them brilliant. Some of the comments however are disappointing. So many people (on both sides of the arguments) seem to be so sure of the things they write. Unfortunately, so many people are clearly talking out their asses. In my opinion, a good dose of humility and civility would do much to truly advance intellectual conversation. Just my two cents.
This is precisely the kind of deranged hysteria we have to protest against, I’m afraid.
lol, they are certainly not afraid of PZ and it’s not the reason for increased security either, as PZ would have too much too loose if you tried an emotional stunt concerning the wafer. They are worried about someone in his choir that might try something foolish. A new breed? Sometimes it seems like all playground talking to me…
@Jason #728
Yeah yeah yeah – sat through all that when I was being brain-washed for my confirmation …ummm…27 years ago.
It sure sounded like a crock-of-shite then, and it most certainly is a crock-of-shite now.
I hope you cut and paste all that crud, it’d be a shame to have typed all that for so little result.
Brian, did I say Homoiousianism?
D’oh!
Of course, I meant the Doctrine of the Homoousian.
(still, there’s only one iota of difference… ;)
Ray said:
“oh, aren’t you clever with the coat hanger quote…what we wish for is people to commit to sacramental marriages and to stop the slaughter of the unborn. Big difference.”
I fail to see the connection between marriage, sacramental otherwise, and abortion.
Speaking of alcoholics I have a feeling that Ray has been sipping communion wine all night and is now completely detached from reality–I know it was a very short trip for him.
Michael, watch out for those homophones. They slip past your guard very easily!
Charlie Foxtrot: Well said!
John,
Its funny that you stumbled upon that little ‘i’ that makes so much difference. So much ink and blood has been spilled about that little letter in the course of Christian history. It just goes to show that there are so many better and ridiculous things to attack the church for. I fear I’ve strayed into the history of theology a bit too much. I can’t help it. It fascinates me. I’ll direct future comments back to the foolish comments of Thomas Foley.
“You say you don’t hate Christians, yet you call our Lord a cracker…need I say more.”
Yes, Ray. You need to explain to us how your Lord is any different than all the other crackers out there! By every test we can POSSIBLY imagine, YOUR GOD IS A CRACKER. This isn’t a matter of belief. It’s a fact. Nobody can tell the difference! Not even you!
If you’re so motivated, instead of spending all this time harassing us here, how about you go take one MILLION dollars away from a lousy atheist named James Randi? Show him a wafer turning into God and give his money to the church. Prove us wrong. Laugh at all of us. Or maybe even save our souls (I know I’d be convinced.)
Here’s his website: http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-info.html
Do you REALLY believe wafers turn into the flesh of Christ? If you did, you wouldn’t be here arguing with us. You’d be getting that million dollars for God!
Jason, please talk to your priest about transubstantiation.
“Thank God for world youth day and the Pope’s participation. With the millions of worldwide youth that are attending, we can only hope that the next generation will stamp out the angry, hate-filled atheistic voices such as PZ Myers and the respondants we see here. The Spirit is alive!!”
Sadly there are a few things kinda wrong with your spiel. Millions wont be attending World Youth Day. In fact only 500,000 are expected to attend the last big event. So even if they do have more unregistered ‘pilgrims’ attend, It would be highly unlikely to reach a million let alone millions of ‘youth’.
Then there is your proclamation of ‘The Spirit is alive’. I don’t know about other parts but in Australia it turns out that Australia’s youth are turning more and more away from religion and embracing things like spirituality, atheism, humanism etc.
Oh and while we are thanking ‘god’, lets also thank him for the congestion around Sydney, the amount of money being spent by the NSW Government, the APEC style security (though those stupid laws have been repelled the fences do remain) and the rudeness of the pilgrims which is all of result of World Youth Day. =)
By the way there have been instances where the host has actually transformed into actual flesh or even pieces of a heart. And the wine has changed to real blood. There was once a priest who did not believe in the real presence and as he raised the host after consecration, it became a piece of an actual heart. Lets just say that afterwards he believed.
Jason, I cannot respect someone so dishonest as to state such things as if they knew they were true and so arrogant as to think anyone would believe it on their say so. “Let’s just say” that your head is full of maggots and that’s why you’re so stupid and so sure of absurdities.
I didn’t “stumble” on it, Brian.
The history of Christianity correlates to the history of societal control.
Propaganda is not a new concept.
No, that’s what all the other religions do. I know it looks exactly the same as what the Catholic Church does, but the similarities are restricted to the accidents, not the substance.
That totally reminds me of something….
@David Carson Nice one! Much better than my plaintive cry to “leave the cracker aloooooone *sob*”.
@John Morales don’t bee sew homophonic :)
Aww, Richard. Wanna take all the fun outta my life?
So many people (on both sides of the arguments) seem to be so sure of the things they write. Unfortunately, so many people are clearly talking out their asses.
False equivalence and multiple overgeneralizations. Some people are sure of the things they write because they’re knowledgeable and double check their claims. That you seem quite sure of what you write about Catholicism is not a negative against you, so cut the hypocrisy.
In my opinion, a good dose of humility and civility would do much to truly advance intellectual conversation.
If you value humility so much, you should practice it instead of lecturing others about it. As for civility, trolling and lying are uncivil, to which contempt is an appropriate response. We do have civil, intelligent conversations around here when not infested with trolls and liars; it’s a huge (and arrogant) mistake to judge this place by what goes on in troll threads, especially in the last few days.
I read all 481 comments.Wow,all over a fucking cracker!
You seem to have missed 6-7 thousand previous comments on the subject.
Wait, if some people in the US are descended from Irish people, then why are there still Irish people?
yeah, yeah, fine, annoyance machine. Gimme a fucking break, it’s late and I’m dizzy.
Fuck you for your pathetically defensive overreaction to my making a simple point.
Truth Machine,
I’m sorry to have upset you. That certainly wasn’t my intention. I didn’t mean to make a “false equivalence”. I didn’t meant to imply that those people are necessarily one and the same. I hope you do see how the combination of those two things could be frustrating for me. It makes it difficult to tell whats right and whats nonsense.
I certainly haven’t meant to lie or troll but to be honest I don’t really know what trolling is. I started out by trying to answer some questions. Perhaps I got carried away and overstepped my bounds. If thats the case I apologize.
You make a very good point about not judging the comments on PZ Myers based on whats occurred in the past few days. Surely this is not normal. I’ve enjoyed reading past posts from before this all started. I hoped to continue to be a part of the conversation after this nonsense died down but I don’t want to upset anyone. I’ll keep my thoughts to myself.
Ah, Ray’s just too boring. Bring back Jenn with her crazy sexual hangups and dominatrix talk, she was fun.
Other random bits of crazy stew:
“Other than that, turn the Eucharists you have recieved over to the nearest Catholic Church and get a life.”
STEP AWAY FROM THE CRACKERS AND NO ONE GETS HURT!
“The Lamb of God takes away the sins of the humble but his wrath is upon the wicked ones. It is interesting why would anyone do violence to a lamb!”
See that’s why you gotta be wary of Jesus, he’ll give you the big sorrowful lamb-eyes and you’ll think he’s just a helpless little thing, and then the second your back is turned…BAM! Out with the wrath.
“There is absolutely nothing you can do to the Body of Christ. There is nothing that could be worse than what He suffered during His Passion and what He continues to suffer today at the hands of His children.”
Yeah. That’s what we’ve been saying all along, in those moments in which we have, for the sake of argument, taken the position that the Eucharist is somehow real. So what’s the big deal with taking one out of a church? Oh yeah, of course, it’s spooky stories and mind control. Gotcha.
“The desecration of the Eucharist, the body of the one God, is extremely imprudent, regardless of what you believe or what point you are trying to make.”
I don’t think anyone is going to heed this advice, but seriously, crazy Catholics? The more you pile on in this manner, the more likely PZ is going to do…something.
Somewhat bigger fish to fry – Rooke:
“His insults represent the most socially inept form of moral turpitude conceivable.”
I find it impossible to take seriously anyone who, with a straight face, uses the word “turpitude”.
“PZ ignores the most basic ground rule of debate.”
Oh really? A bunch of thuggish members of one of the most populous religions on Earth, one backed by a rich multinational organization, assault and threaten to expel from college one of their own for not following one of their silly weekly rituals to the letter? And now you somehow think you deserve a proper debate?!
This one’s for you, Pete:
Speaking of substance and accidents, here’s a good article on transubstantiation.
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9307iron.asp
And, on the Eucharist in general
http://www.catholic.com/library/Christ_in_the_Eucharist.asp
Cheers
Clinteas @ #741
Got the day off so I’m watching the hysteria on Channel 7 whilst preparing my (immodestly self named) famous beef burgundy. Nearly peed my pants at the fact the satellite keeps dicking around and the live coverage is being blacked out, coincidentally every time they go in for a close up of that smug bastard’s face. Seems like there may be a God after all- but he definately ain’t a Catholic.
Paranoia and fear mongering… isn’t that the basic republican electoral strategy?
We’re not dealing with normal Catholics here. Donohue, oddly, appears to reject evolution, so he’s definite on the fringe.
I’m sure that most Catholics rank wafer abuse well below altar boy abuse (and lots of former altar boys confess to wafer abuse).
I wonder, though, if P.Z. isn’t hoaxing us. He’s going to subject stacks of unconsecrated wafers to unspecified acts of desecration and then say, “Hah hah, fooled you.”
He probably has been sent consecrated wafers, though (we his minions are a devious and resourceful sort) but he may conceivably have been sent unconsecrated wafers by equally crafty mackerel snappers (call it a denial of service attack). Are they all worth desecrating?
Perhaps some consecrated hosts arrived from trusted minions which could be taken seriously… except, of course, they couldn’t. “Hoc est corpus.” Seriously?
Am I the only one who thinks that a Christian calling an ATHEIST a “bigot” is just hilariously funny?
By definition, a “bigot” is a “religious hypocrite.”
So, IMPOV “bigot” is a much more fitting characterisation for a Christian. But certainly NOT for an Atheist.
Let’s keep this in perspective chaps
I’m sorry to have upset you.
You’re jumping to a conclusion and personalizing things. You put out a rather generalized criticism against a whole slew of unspecified persons, and I responded specifically you you and your comments; that’s all. Haven’t you ever been in a conversation where not everyone agreed with you, and someone called you out on what you said, without being “upset”?
I hoped to continue to be a part of the conversation after this nonsense died down but I don’t want to upset anyone. I’ll keep my thoughts to myself.
Your way overreacting, and you really should work on that fragile ego. Feel free to share your thoughts, but you might want to consider just how valid they are first if you’re so afraid of someone having a negative reaction. Best though that you lose the fear.
“you you” -> “to you”, “Your way” -> “You’re way”. Sigh.
@ DrFrank #763
Wait, if some people in the US are descended from Irish people, then why are there still Irish people?
I suggest you watch Monty Python’s Meaning of Life.
Jason #728 This seems to be a common theme with evangelistic nut cases. They hear a cute or fantastic story and believe it true without any evidence. “Cracker Becomes Quivering Heart Flesh”! Read all about it! “Mary Appears on Freeway Wall”! Tune in at 6 o’clock for the full story! “One of Man’s Nine Crushed Vertebrae Healed by Praying to St. Nick” (Weren’t his prayers good enough to prevent this from happening in the first place)?
These kind of stories seem to make the rounds in the chain e-mails. The comments indicate they believe them. Why do they get wigged out when I laugh at them? Why do they think I get wigged out when when one of these wackos is elected President with access to The Button?
@Chris #775
I think DrFrank is making a joke about the “if we came from monkeys…” thing. I’ve seen The Meaning of Life, but I don’t remember the reference. Please elaborate.
Bride of Shrek,
highlights of the day : Kevin Rudd saying “Your holiness”,Pope blessing the guy with 3 cancers,sure thats going to fix him,and oh,surprise,we didnt get an apology for child abuse after all !
Some hot chicks in the crowds tho from what I could tell,and to think they all have to swallow !
Whats the best pick up line with them I wonder : “Can I put my host in your tabernacle?”
Irony. It hits you like a brick!
‘No, but I did snort tea out of my nose when I read this. Come on, someone make an animation!’
If someone does make an animation, it totally must have ‘Bad Case Of Loving You (Doctor, Doctor)’ by Robert Palmer playing during it. It would be…awesome.
I stand by my argument that any decent god would be made of cheese and not crackers. Cheese would go so much better with the wine.
Accost someone taking the sacrament to the sick? Ha. Actually, the best way to secure a Host would be to go through the communion line, receive the wafer, place it in your mouth (hold it lightly with your teeth to keep it from touching your tongue or the roof of your mouth), and transfer it to your hands when you’re back at your pew, kneeling and pretending to pray (hands in prayer position in front of your mouth).
Or you could leave the church immediately after receiving the Host (a lot of actual Catholics do) and make a run for it.
Or snatch some from the tabernacle. They’re not guarded. Yet.
Addon:
The wafers may not be laying around, but you can surely, surely get to them rather easily – pre-packaged with juice!
http://www.kingdom.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=CCW210
It’s OK Brian, I’m sure some priests provide “cheese*”.
* OK, smegma, but what the hey. Close enough.
Kevin Rudd saying “Your holiness”
Isn’t Kevin Rudd Catholic?
Just thought of a new word: smegmata
Fr. (fucker?) J clear back at #37
Cheers? Cheers?! C’mon.. you could at least be man enough to end your rant without the empty goddamn complementary closing at the end. I don’t care if it was intended to be ironic, it just underscores the dishonest, insulting nature of the entire post. “Fuck off and die” would have fit the rest of it perfectly, but with your delicate sensibilities you might prefer “rot in hell for eternity” instead. This passive-agressive “Cheers” shit just gives the impression that you have trouble making eye-contact when talking to people.
While I’m on the topic of style, Ray’s excessive use of ellipses makes it look like he gets winded after typing a sentence (I have a good imagination).
I did jump to the conclusion that you were upset because of the manner in which you responded. You seemed to misinterpret my original comment and then launch personal attacks by calling me a liar. That seemed rash. You criticize me for jumping to conclusions but you have done that yourself. You assume I have a fragile ego and that I’m afraid of people reacting poorly to my comments. That cannot be further from the truth. I don’t care what you think of me or how you react. I offered an apology to try to appease you. I find your comments to be quite rude and filled with far too much name calling. I don’t think that provides a healthy environment for true discussion. I was hoping a few platitudes would soften you up for the good of everyone. I’m sure you’ll tell me why that was foolish of me and I will concede the win to you because I’ve wasted too much time already.
#728
“By the way there have been instances where the host has actually transformed into actual flesh or even pieces of a heart. And the wine has changed to real blood. There was once a priest who did not believe in the real presence and as he raised the host after consecration, it became a piece of an actual heart. Lets just say that afterwards he believed. You can look up the miracles online and I would highly recommend it. It’s very interesting”
And yet you wonder why religion is criticised…
If you believe that nonsense then you really are screwed…by the way people lie even priests and especially pseudo religious web sites…in fact religion would collapse if the truth really were told instead of the bullshit that passes for dogmatic indoctrination…
That is why their are so many damaged and twisted bunnies in western religion…they know they have to make greater and greater claims of sensationalism to keep hood winking the hood winked…it warps what little brain they have left you see…
How you waste your intelligence is your choice…consider maybe not inflicting your delusional claptrap on the rational…that might be a valuable clue as to how to behave in society…’Thou shalt not bear false witness’…methinks even Christians must abide by that tenant…is it not in their constitution or something? or is being a lying sunbeam for jebus…quite acceptable then? …
Check a few facts before claiming nonsense…it might help in your defence…
Is a cyberpistol more dangerous than a Holy Handgrenade?
“Fuck you for your pathetically defensive overreaction to my making a simple point.”
Okay, I take it back. You’re actually a charming fellow.
Brian @788: Probably because you not au fait with Pharyngula.
Think of it as a moderated (as much as PZ moderates) alt. usenet group, with lots of visitors and many regulars.
Thing is, there’s no FAQ. Lurking some (or backreading) will enlighten you.
the strangest brew @ #789 “[…ellipsis…filled…post…]”
Do you have to catch your breath after each sentence fragment, or what? Are you quote-mining your own thoughts?
(I was just making fun of Ray for the same, so I can’t justify letting you off the hook.)
Oh, and fuck you too for reacting so defensively to my snarky acknowledgment of your pedantry. :)
Gosh, this is fun!
Feh.
Is that a cyberpistol in your packet or are you just happy to see me?
the strangest brew wrote @789:
Christians must abide by that tenant
So, Christians, it’s not enough that the snuff porn-watching atheist lives next door. Now he actually lives in your house!
Sorry, tsb, couldn’t help it.
I was hoping a few platitudes would soften you up for the good of everyone.
This, like everything else in your ridiculous response, demonstrates a fundamentally dishonest personality.
What is interesting about the newly discovered Cat-Lick kooks, is their intense oppression-envy of Black Folks and probably Jews as well.
On my you tube site I got spammed by a Kook-lick with all the arguments we’ve been hearing.
First, ‘If this were about Blacks or Gays, there would be an uproar!!!” I pointed him to proper links where I had slammed Larry Craig and Ted Haggard, also Islamotards, also African American Homophobic Baptards.
THEN, the same guy accused me of being KKK. These Kook-licks love to pull the KKK card because they think it puts them in the same oppression boat with Blacks and Jews.
However the KKK dropped Catholics from their Hate list some time ago, and Catlicks are now welcome to join, so there’s a little more irony in the fire on the cross at the cracker roast for ya.
You Tube Eucharist Challenge
Okay, I take it back. You’re actually a charming fellow.
Your non sequiturs are as good as anything Ray could muster.
Oh, and fuck you too for reacting so defensively to my snarky acknowledgment of your pedantry. :)
My response was appropriate; yours was not.
Feh.
Indeed.
Paul is the voice from the outer world! He is the Mahdi! – Dustin
Not only that, but the Once and Future King, the Maitreya Buddha, and the Kwisatz Haderach! All Hail our Tentacled Overlord!
Think of it as a moderated (as much as PZ moderates)
Other than rare disemvowelings and rarer banishment to the dungeon, he doesn’t; this is nothing like a moderated group.
@aleph1=c #777
Referring to the “every sperm is sacred” scene.
#724
No actually there is no Leavity to be found
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
I totally cracker myself up.
You tube Eucharist Challenge
You seemed to misinterpret my original comment and then launch personal attacks by calling me a liar.
Now I understand your “I certainly haven’t meant to lie or troll” … you are so fucking stupid, insecure, and/or self-centered that you totally misinterpreted me as saying that you were a troll and liar; that’s quite amazing.
At #707 craig said:
So, since Popes are infallible, that means that up until a few years ago, our ancestors were shared with chimps… but *poof*, reality got changed recently. Not our idea of what happened, but literally WHAT HAD HAPPENED.
You may be relieved to know that the Pope isn’t always infallible. The Catholics believe the Pope is infallible when he speaks on matters of doctrines of faith or morals. http://www.catholic.com/library/Papal_Infallibility.asp
Otherwise, he’s just as fallible as the rest of us.
Now, doesn’t that make you feel much better?
tm @ 801: True. Still, it gets some of the flavour across.
I wonder if Brian is old enough to have been through the hurly-burly of ye olde Usenet?
You may be relieved to know that the Pope isn’t always infallible.
Ray doesn’t think so.
The Catholics believe the Pope is infallible when he speaks on matters of doctrines of faith or morals. http://www.catholic.com/library/Papal_Infallibility.asp
You’ve confused Catholic doctrine with what “the Catholics believe”.
Also, in re: #805
Are you saying that the Catholic church doesn’t claim the origin of mankind as one of its “doctrines of faith”? I’m not doubting your claim, I just want to know to remedy my own ignorance on the matter.
I wonder if Brian is old enough to have been through the hurly-burly of ye olde Usenet?
It’s hard to tell since he pretended to have a very different attitude than he actually does, to “soften [me] up for the good of everyone”. Boy was that dumb. He says “I’m sure you’ll tell me why that was foolish of me and I will concede the win to you because I’ve wasted too much time already” — better if the dishonest git would concede the point because it’s so obviously true.
I just visited the Catholic League website to get their angle on things.
An in their post “HYSTERIA MARKS MYERS AND HIS ILK” dated July 11th i found this beaut:
“….Myers, who claims expertise in studying zebrafish, has quite a following among the King Kong Theory of Creation gang. ….”
Well, I am used to evolution beeing called “Darwenism” for better propaganda value. But seeing it called the “King Kong Theory of Creation” realy made my day !
What a crude and primitive attempt at propaganda….
And a clear indecator as to the intelectual levle these people are on…..
Yeah, the Every Sperm is Sacred scene! Weren’t they English, not Irish? I guess the whole point is thet they were Catholic. I also like the exploding fat guy (it’s wafer thin!) and Eric Idle’s Penis Song.
Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in Thomas Foley.
No, seriously, I’m not just quoting a movie. Reading what he said, I can’t help but feel that he’s entirely controlled by fear, consumed by it even, scared senseless of his own shadow and trying desperately to keep it in check.
Well, just like many (although not all) republicans, of course, but he appears to be an extreme example even for them. Angst essen Seele auf…
Dr Frank #764
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!
nice one.
More on that dishonest git Brian:
You criticize me for jumping to conclusions but you have done that yourself.
This is a tu quoque fallacy. Brian did in fact jump to conclusions, regardless of what I did. But I simply responded to what Brian wrote; making an inference from the evidence is not jumping to a conclusion. I did assume that he was displaying a minimum of good faith, rather than completely misrepresenting his own attitudes, but that’s a reasonable, necessary, and faultless assumption.
@Nino (#810):
Maybe I’m just slow (it is late here), but what is “King Kong Theory of Creation” even supposed to mean?
I’m way more into the Donkey Kong Theory of Creation, anyway, which says that all of the building blocks for life were in the barrels he was rolling down the planks. Mario only thought that they were aimed at him — in fact, by trying to stop DK he’s really the devil figure.
As for Fr. J’s claim on this thread that “[t]hose who have stolen consecrated hosts have committed a federal offense,” I have no idea what he’s talking about. I assume he’s just making shit up. – Lowell
Well either he isn’t really a priest, in which case he’s certainly making shit up by pretending to be one, or he is, in which case it’s his full-time job!
tm, I guess I try to err on the side of charity, so I can hardly blame you for doing the same.
Regarding Brian, I am unsure of what combination of shellshock, naivety, stupidity and malice has been evinced so far. But you’re making me wonder.
#803 You’re leaven me behind. Cracken me up. Ink everywhere.
@ pcarini
I yoused to be an atheist who thought, that evolution was the logical explenation as tho how we came to be.
Now I can all myself a “King Kong Creationist” !
Can I sart a KKC Curch? Ware there any tax breaks I can get that way?
Na…
I suppose it would only lead to a fight with a “Reformed KKC Church” who claim that PZ is their prophet….
LOL
This may not last, so:
“Wait, if some people in the US are descended from Irish people, then why are there still Irish people?”
Because their descendants still are lazy, drink too much, and eat potatoes daily.
Paddy
Yes. Current official opinion is that only the soul of man was created — the body evolved, whence our sinful nature that is (with copious use of metaphors) explained in Genesis 2.
More importantly, supposedly infallible pronouncements are very rare because require a grand ceremony; even on matters of doctrine, the Pope can’t just casually utter an opinion that is then automatically considered infallible.
Craig, Brian- don’t worry about TM too much.
Have you ever had a neighbor who owned a dog that would bark at any damned thing, regardless of intent or action? One that would rush it’s little fence and start yapping anytime anything remotely new wandered past its comfort zone- even if “new” meant “hasn’t been here since yesterday?” One that froths at the mouth at every passing thing, regardless of how inconsequential, non-threatening or even friendly it was? You know, the kind of dog that seems to spend all it’s time either stewing in its aggression or misinterpreting any novelty as some dire threat?
Well, we’re it self-aware enough, that dog would take a single look at TM, back away, and shake it’s head at the kind of unprovoked hostility TM eagerly embraces on a daily basis.
Frankly, it’s trivial and pointless to point out how clearly his obvious need diminish others is an attempt to shore up his obvious sense of inadequacy. Really, it’s best to just let him stew in his juices and treat his constant blatherings about how anyone impinging on his comfort zone, or questioning his obviously limited understanding of the world, are are ‘filth’ and ‘trolls’ for what they are- the incoherent squawking of fragile, unimaginative, and insular little person.
Of course, you can’t win in the face of that kind of unreasoning hostility, but in the end- who really cares? It’s just the internets- and even in that limited realm, he/she’s hardly important as TM seems to think he/she is, regardless of that meaningless ‘om’ appellation it seems so fond of.
As an aside- Hey TM! How’s it going?
The Vatican is a place the Eucharist is the heart of the Church – Brian F
I think Brian F has just told us what should be done with a consecrated cracker: offer to return it in exchange for legal title to the Vatican. Since the Vatican is merely a place, and the cracker is the heart of the Church, the Pope will surely jump at the offer!
PZ, when he talks about increased security, he means increased security for the crackers.
Hi Uriel.
I like the long insult followed by the cheerie “How’s it going?”.
Sorry Uriel, but I have a feeling that Brian’s IQ > yours.
PS “we’re it self-aware enough”. Love it.
Gee PZ,
give us a piece about epigenetics man,or some obscure science topic,I cant stand the trolls anymore.
#763 DrFrank
“Wait, if some people in the US are descended from Irish people, then why are there still Irish people?”
I laughed and laughed until I realised you’d just argued me out of existence.
The thing I find most astonishing is his claim to be a Republican AND simultaneously to have “never “personally encountered such bigotry.”” Considering what a bigoted lot of pisswits make up Virginia’s Republican party I find that particularly hard to believe. This guy sits in Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell’s backyard, the home of George “Macaca” Allen, and he never noticed any? Not a speck?
And the other thing that astonishes me is that Virginia’s Republicans are among the most gun-crazy dimwits on the planet. Evidently actual loaded guns on the table are okey-dokey, but ooh, those cyber-pistols….
Glad you appreciated it, JM. I try to amuse, where I can.
As far as the IQ jibe goes- Oh well. Some how, I don’t feel like getting into a pissing match on this paticular internet venue at this time. So, I guess we’ll just have to agree to not care what the other thinks on the subject. That’s the way it works, sometimes.
Damn, it took a while but I finally got the reference in #763
My only excuse is 3 hours of sleep after too many Guinness last night after a heated discussion with an “evolutionary Christian” — I still don’t know what the F he meant by that.
Everyone who’s ever eaten beef has done something sacreligious to Hindus, for whom cows are sacred animals not to be killed or eaten. May I expect a wave of Catholic vegetarianism?
Everyone has a right to form their own beliefs. The actual beliefs get no protection whatsoever from critical consideration and comparison to evidence.
Uriel, you surprise me.
Good comment. Now, if you apologise to the rabid dog, you will have shown some honesty.
> as it is of the Polish (as opposed to the heretic …
> Russians) and the Croat ethnic identities (as
> opposed to the heretic Serbians and Bosnian Muslims),
> as Orthodoxy is part of the Russian, Greek and
> Serbian ethnic identities (as opposed to heretic Croats
> and Poles,
Catholic and Orthodox Christians consider each other schismatics rather than heretics. Of course, that did not stop them from killing each other…
PZ is a cyberpistol toting Cephalopod?
*dives under desk for cover*
Jason #728,
Thank you Jason, because it is exactly in this small sentence that lies the heart of the problem, and maybe this helps you to understand.
How would we know that we are doing those things to Christ, if we do not believe, and we do not see any reason to believe, that Christ is present in this wafer, or even more generally, we do not even believe in God ?
Don’t you see that what you are saying is exactly as offensive to us, demanding that we accept that Christ is in that wafer, as us demanding that you accept that Christ isn’t in there ?
Moreover, why do you worry so much for Christ ? I mean, if you read your bible, do you get the idea that Christ’s message was that you should defend his body against those damned unfaithfuls, or was it, that you, the faithful, should further this sacrament in his memory to keep your faith in him ? So what are you worried about ?
Look, the catechism says it even very clearly :
So, you see, it’s clear, the senses cannot apprehend this, only faith can. So, we do not have faith. You can respect that, at least ? So, for us, it’s just a cracker.
Moreover, there is nothing in the Bible that indicates that Christ was ever worried about the unfaithful abusing his body. How could they, when they do not have faith ?
On the other hand, there is every indication, if you want to believe in your own bible, that he was much more concerned about those who would take this sacrament unworthily, as is clearly explained in the passage “examine yourself” ;
So, to summarize :
a) we do not know that we are doing those things to Christ, as we do not believe he is in there, nor that he exists
b) your own Church catechism recognizes that we are incapable of knowing this
c) there is no indication in your own bible that christ was ever worried about unfaithfuls abusing his own body, but on the contrary, of people who take this sacrament in an unworthy manner
So, what are you worried about ? Stick to your beliefs and your faith if you want, take your sacrament, eat as many Eucahrists, but do not force us to believe in something we do not want to, as we do not see any reason to.
It should be quite simple to understand really.
Now, if you apologise to the rabid dog, you will have shown some honesty.
I need no apology from the troll, and it wouldn’t be given honestly in any case.
And besides, trolls like Uriel who resort to such ad hominem dismissals just mark themselves for what they are; they affect only their own credibility, not mine, which I’ve well established here. Ask David Marjanović, who eventually came around. Or Azkyroth, who used to waste his time trying to give me etiquette lessons and pop psychologize me, much as the green Nick Gotts has done a few times. Eventually Azkyroth stopped whining about me and even took on some of my troll-bashing techniques.
It is interesting why would anyone do violence to a lamb! – NAB
Er, usually it’s a preliminary to butchering, roasting and eating it.
@836: shouldn’t we be pointing out that a guy who supposedly let himself be nailed to a plank is probably not that worried about the fate of his body or parts thereof?
This posted first on another site:
And what if what believers believe is true? Where does that leave you? I don’t mean in hell – no one can judge you except the One you don’t believe in. But where does your disbelief leave you as you stand before the indescribable Glory?
I think the least you can do to begin with is to upper case God, as a mark of respect to the English language, in which proper nouns are written so. Note please that I did not type your name thus: paul.
I think you will find, if you talk with many believers, that their belief comes not primarily from reading a text, even the Bible, but from experience. When they say ‘Glory to God’, they know what they’re saying.
“I think you will find, if you talk with many believers, that their belief comes not primarily from reading a text, even the Bible, but from experience. When they say ‘Glory to God’, they know what they’re saying.”
Sort of like people who experience alien abductions or hauntings and believe in them just as fervently.
Anyway, I didn’t think the Christian god’s actual name was “God.” He has tons of other names for himself, but I don’t know if he ever settled for just “god.”
Besides, to us, he’s just one of many other equally insubstantial gods with no more evidence behind him than Zeus.
But where does your disbelief leave you as you stand before the indescribable Glory?
Where does your disbelief in the Easter Bunny leave you as you stand before the ineffable Hare?
I think you will find, if you talk with many believers, that their belief comes not primarily from reading a text, even the Bible, but from experience. When they say ‘Glory to God’, they know what they’re saying.
I have already found, after talking to many believers, that they are deluded and arrogant fools who treat their fantasies as “experience” and self-servingly claim to “know what they’re saying” when all the evidence indicates otherwise.
@negentropyeater #836
Well put. Problem with people like Jason is, they do not WANT to see our point. To them, it simply doesn’t matter whether we do believe in their mystical cloud person or not, or whether the cracker is just a cracker or it’s somehow “transformed” into the body parts of a dead person (anyone else think Zombie here?).
Their point is, THEY believe it, therefor it’s true and real.
Kinda reminds me of my one year old daughter who always is in awe that I’m able to “magically” let there be light in our living room…
“I have already found, after talking to many believers, that they are deluded and arrogant fools who treat their fantasies as “experience” and self-servingly claim to “know what they’re saying” when all the evidence indicates otherwise.”
This has been my experience, as well. Human beings have great imaginations and powerful emotions that threaten to override their logic at times. So it would be fairly simple for us to consider even the wildest thing to be true.
And if there’s already a large group of people who believe this outlandish thing, it becomes just that much easier to convince ourselves.
And this is exactly why objective evidence and facts are so incredibly important and why faith is worthless.
tm,
I hate to admit it, but me too.
Sifu! Sifu!
shorter Jason:
blah blah blah
@Pavel #840
I think the least you can do to begin with is to upper case God …
It’s YOUR god, so why should I?
You wouldn’t show similar respect to my god, if I had one, would you?
… as a mark of respect to the English language, in which proper nouns are written so.
Names are, not nouns. And ‘god’ is just another word, not a name, as say Zeus or Mars is.
I challenge any of you to be as hateful toward anything muslim. No? I thought not.
Posted by: Ray | July 16, 2008 11:57 PM
And another lying sack of shit.
Foley is an idiot. He claims he had never witness such bigotry as he found on this site. The man grew up in the south under Jim Crow laws. They weren’t repealed until he was 17 years old. Does he think that saying there is no gods, and that it is only a cracker is worse than legally forcing segregation and treating people as second class citizens? I suggest that one of the Eucharist be shellacked, and site to him as an award, “Stupid Cracker of the Year.”
@ #91
additional instruction: have a friend surreptitiously video the whole event on a mobile phone.
Myers is a bigot, not a racist. The problem is this…if Myers (or any of you) choose not to believe, that is your choice….but why must you do all you can to belittle and hate all those that choose to believe…just go about your business…why do you feel it necessary to desecrate the Holy Eucharist….compensating for something, perhaps?
Posted by: Ray | July 17, 2008 12:08 AM
blah blah blah blah blah
I believe EVERYTHING the Pope says since he is the Vicor of Christ, the heir to St. Peter…
baaaaaaaaah baaaaaaaaaaah baaaaaaaaaah
Does he think that saying there is no gods, and that it is only a cracker is worse than legally forcing segregation and treating people as second class citizens?
I’m going to go with “yes.” He quite probably does think that.
PZ – “I had no idea that “braying” was especially insulting to the Irish”
It’s news to me too, and you don’t get more Irish than where I am. Maybe it’s just those sensitive East Coast Irish?
Dia duit ó na Forbacha, Gaillimh.
Oh god, “braying” is an insult to the Irish? As a born and bred Irishman, I can definitely say that this plastic paddy hasn’t got a clue and is full of bullshit.
@MAJeff #852
You know the saying: ONLY sheep need a shepherd…
Since when “bigotry = making fun of somebody”?
# 834 Johannes
Schiz-o-matics, shit that is PERFECT!!!
The AMERICAN thing to do would have been to sell cyberpistols to both sides until they finish each other off. Another missed opportunity.
——————
You Tube Eucharist Challenge
My dad’d Irish, but I’m not…how is that? Because I was born and live in London perhaps?
I love the american tradition of going back hundreds of years and adopting the country of a vague ancestor as an ethnicity!
Schiz-o-matics, shit that is PERFECT!!!
Do they work as well as the Bass-O-Matic?
I hate to admit it
Be not ashamed of thyself and thy master, little one.
Good heavens – Ritz-ual abuse!
Ray Said
Okay, just off the cuff.
What’s difference between a rug muncher and a smoke swinger?
Rug munchers don’t watch American Idol.
How’s that?
——————
You Tube Eucharist Challenge
“… as a mark of respect to the English language, in which proper nouns are written so.”
Names are, not nouns.
Ahem. Proper nouns are, indeed, capitalized in English — 1st grade grammar.
Scooter,
Jihad! Jihad for you!
/bad Muslim impression>
PS – I don’t get it!
@ No 840
Who is the guy,fucking Ray “Banana” Comfort? Whats with this capitalizing Dog thing,is that meant to add anything to a discussion,its spelled with a capital G,got to be important?
Desecrading an Eucharist is a Hell of a thing to do.
“Ahem. Proper nouns are, indeed, capitalized in English — 1st grade grammar”
I, for one, will consider it a proper noun as soon as I see a proper god.
OctoberMermaid,
better stock up on popcorn,might take a while for a proper god to show up LOL
#30: NO, you do not have to be born in Ireland to be Irish. If you have a parent who was born in Ireland you are automatically an Irish citizen. That’s my own case, for example – I wasn’t born in Ireland, but I was born an Irish citizen and have an Irish passport and everything.
After that it gets a little trickier, you have to register foreign births and the parent you derive citizenship from must have been an Irish citizen at the time of your birth. That’s my son’s case, and he’ll have his citizenship and passport as soon as his Da gets off his lazy arse and does the paperwork.
#859: Whether you know it or not, if your Da was born in Ireland, you are in fact Irish.
I don’t have any problem with capitalizing “God” which, extant or not, is a proper noun. It’s the cooptation of words like “love” and “truth” that really gets me; these words are meaningful in normal use, but not when capitalized. Saying things like “Truth with a capital T is the ultimate truth” is literally nonsensical — “ultimate truth” is no more meaningful than “penultimate truth”, “14th truth”, “bottom truth”, “blue truth”, etc.
George: “One searches in vain for an adult among PZ Myers’ amen chorus.”
“Hi Ron. Sockpuppet much?”
“That’s what happens when you wear a god bag over your head George. Blindness is a given.”
The search continues. Perhaps behaving like smug, adolescent asses is to be expected from the choir when such behavior is routinely modeled by the choir leader.
Who’s Ron?
I, for one, will consider it a proper noun as soon as I see a proper god.
That’s fine, but Chris was simply wrong when he wrote “Names are, not nouns” in response to “proper nouns are written so”, as if he were unfamiliar with the term.
Hi everybody. Any thing happen while I was sleeping?
HOLY SHIT
P.S. Batman, Superman, Santa Claus … are all proper nouns, despite being fictional.
#853
Or worse, he’d probably manage to argue that one would necessarily lead to the other, don’t you know that repetitive cracker worship is the best antidote against racism ?
George:
Someone just like you, apparently.
Care to show evidence otherwise?
@truth machine
As said before, I’m suffering from lack of sleep. Yes, you’re right, proper nouns are _usually_ capitalized in English. However, “god” is considered to be a proper noun with respect to referring to ‘the’ monotheistic god (aka JHWH).
Personally I do not think there’s a real difference between a proper and a common noun. Unless you’re referring to a name (think London, or Berlin) or you’re Trying to Make a Point (think Declaration of Independence).
@truth #875
P.S. Batman, Superman, Santa Claus … are all proper nouns, despite being fictional.
I consider those to be names. Albeit names of fictional people.
Ok, you could argue that ‘God’ is a name, however as has been pointed out here before, that mystical cloud thing never said its name was ‘God.’
Ray,
Ray is a bigot, and a racist I don’t know. The problem is this…if Ray (or any of you believers) choose to believe, that is your choice….but why must you do all you can to belittle and hate all those that choose not to believe…just go about your business…why do you feel it necessary to react if we non believers desecrate a cracker….compensating for something, perhaps ?
Nice.
Well if possesion of a cyber pistol makes PZ a cyberman then attendants at the RNC have only one option: gold. The ony way to deal with a cyberman is gold in his respiration system (the box on his chest). So RNC attendees if you see PZ you must throw gold at him. Not cheap costume jewellery, only 18 carats or above is effective and the purer the better.
BobC
No, I am not the policeman, I just think it is time for this juvenile crap to stop, on both sides. But, by your response I can see you want to keep this as juvenile as possible.
Wowbagger, no, I can’t tell, that is why he should just turn them all over and get a life.
@Peter Ashby #882: Makes sense! That must be why the very poor catholic church has so many golden relics. You opened my eyes. :P
“Ok, you could argue that ‘God’ is a name, however as has been pointed out here before, that mystical cloud thing never said its name was ‘God.’”
“God” is not a name at all – it’s an occupational title, like “angel” or “demon” or “plumber.” The former storm god of the Sinai desert (“that mystical cloud thing”) who was morphed into the Creator God of Genesis is variously named as “Yahweh” or (incorrectly) as “Jehovah.”
When one says “god” without specifying which one, it’s open to interpretation, as there are any number of gods in any number of pantheons. If you walk into a board meeting chaired by Zeus or Jupiter or Wotan and say “Yo, God,” they will all say “Who you talking to?”
Yes, you’re right, proper nouns are _usually_ capitalized in English.
Proper nouns are always capitalized in English unless you’re e.e. cummings.
Personally I do not think there’s a real difference between a proper and a common noun. Unless you’re referring to a name (think London, or Berlin) or you’re Trying to Make a Point (think Declaration of Independence).
It doesn’t matter what you think, it’s a fucking grammar rule. And the Declaration of Independence is capitalized because it’s a title, just like Gone With the Wind; it has nothing to do with trying to make a point.
I consider those to be names.
Names are proper nouns. Sheesh, do you always become illiterate when you’re short of sleep? I sleep about 3 hours a day but I don’t have that problem. (I have been known to get a bit cranky though.)
Gone With the Wind
Oops, I should have written either “Gone with the Wind” or “Gone With The Wind”.
“God” is not a name at all – it’s an occupational title, like “angel” or “demon” or “plumber.”
Sigh. The latter are all used with articles or possessives: “an angel”, “his demon”, “the plumber”. When “god” is used that way, it shouldn’t be capitalized, but when it stands alone it’s a proper noun.
Really, who would have thunk it. Sorry, couldn’t resist. Though to be honest, there is little I enjoy more than watching you in full flow excoriating one poor soul or another. Whether always deserved it is invariably worth getting out the popcorn :)
Questions and comments:
1. How could you not see this coming?
2. Have you ever wanted to be a train engineer?
3. Cyber guns don’t kill people, Cyber sex does.
4. If Tom Foley never heard such bigotry, he should get out more.
5. There are more cephalopods than humans. You always have them to fall back on PZ.
6. Is Europe looking? (I’m so embarrassed)
7. PZ’s self esteem might plummet if he’s kicked out of two fundie events in one year. [expelled, RNC].
8. Foley is an American of Irish descent, not an Irishman in America, but let’s face it; they never really understood descent anyway, sounds too evolutionary.
9. And it is still a fraking cracker.
10. I am NOT PZ Myers ally, but I’d like to be his friend.
11. Braying refers to Donkey’s, Donkeys look like the democrat symbol, which is the REAL reason it makes republicans uneasy.
12. For a crime to take place, harm must be demonstrated, where’s the harm?
In a way, I am delighted to see the controversy generated by this. We need to settle some issues in America and it won’t get done without struggles. More importantly though, it generates much needed publicity for a cause that needs it, the separation of church and state is too fuzzy in the uneducated minds of Americans which is a direct result of chasing the American Dream, (I remember what the late George Carlin said about The American Dream, “They call it a dream because you have to be asleep to believe it”.)
Wake up Tom.
This is your big moment. You won’t be remembered, if you’re remembered at all, for your “contributions” to science, but for your childish rantings against Catholics. Congratulations.
Never poster here before. Frankly don’t have time to go through the thousands of posts that have been generated by this whole furore.
I have send an email to the chairman of PZ Myers university stating my support for PZ.
I think the student, wossname, Webster Cook, who started all this was a little naive. I think that the Catholic Church’s reaction to this (and to PZ’s comments) was ludicrous and they should be stepped on, heavily, by saner, calmer authorities. I personally would not go Medieval on a cracker to show my disapproval of said Catholic behaviour. It wouldn’t be… polite, and to me it’s just a cracker and I have better things to do than biscuit abuse. Reading some of the comments here perhaps I should change my mind, sometimes you do have to stand up and make a statement against such insanity.
One thing does crop up, again and again. Athiest = Hitler = Evil.
Hitler certainly started as a catholic. Later he rejected that in favour of a religion of personality based around himself. “He” was the chosen one, the new god. He didn’t give up religion, he adopted it wholesale. But this isn’t the point.
Hitler was the leader of the 3rd Reich. The leader of the German people who, with some honourable exceptions, fully supported him. I believe they were to a large extent catholic. The catholic church supported Hitler until he started turning on them too (again with honourable exceptions). Hitler may not have been catholic, he may have believed himself to be the new christ or not believed at all, that’s not the point. The German people did believe. And they followed him. He promised them glory, he gave them someone to blame (several someones) and this good catholic people followed him.
So who is more contemptible, the possibly atheist sociopath who says “kill” or the believers in christ who do his bidding?
I eagerly await the post in which PZ desecrates the eucharist. It should prove amusing, considering how much reaction there has been to simply saying he’ll do it.
Yikes! So many comical Cat-lick wackaloon posts, so little time…
Anyway: “god” is not a proper noun, and it need not be capitalized. Besides, what is the point? Crackers, capitalizations, etc. These religiobots are obsessive about the most trivial inanities. It would be nice to know whether all catholics are as anal as these new commenters, or whether the worst self-selected to post here.
My HS grammar teacher told me that fictional gods are NOT to be capitalized when referring to them.
Robert:
Yes indeed, when apprehended stripping all the gold from a Catholic church you should immediately and urgently rant on about ‘the cybermen are coming!’ At the very least you will get locked up somewhere nicer ;-)
OKAY
doG
Happy now?
My HS grammar teacher told me that fictional gods are NOT to be capitalized when referring to them.
And you have never seen the name of one in print ever since, or thought each time that it was wrong? Was your HS grammar teacher named Mr. Gospel, perchance?
I had a teacher tell me that gymnasium has three syllables … but that wouldn’t be a good excuse for me to be claiming it, would it?
If you outlaw cyberpistols then only outlaws will have cyberpistols.
If you outlaw cyberpistols then only outlaws will have cyberpistols.
But they’re only virtual outlaws!
So many comical Cat-lick wackaloon posts, so little time…
So many illiterates.
“god” is not a proper noun, and it need not be capitalized.
Of course it’s not … when used with an article or possessive, as I said. But used without one, it’s a proper noun.
Bourgeois Rose: LOL
Regarding my own post at #371 – saddened but not surprised that the hate mongering Catholics and/or Xtians on this blog chose to ignore a message from their own rule book.
Truth machine, your post #861 made me spit coffee with laughter.
Gotta…love…Ray…’s…po…sts, right!!!!????
OK, must get more coffee, after I finish wiping my screen.
Pax Nabisco. Hmmm, maybe should change that to Pox Nabisco
I remember aged about 8, when asked to write a sentence containg the word ‘god’ I (being a well read 8yo) wrote: Thor was the Viking god of thunder. My teacher told me it was wrong because there was only one god.
Mind you we had to cut Mr Murray some slack, he was an old soldier who, having been denied a normal education by the war had become a primary school teacher under a govt program to employ all these returned servicemen. He had been a Desert Rat fighting Rommel. At least I didn’t get strapped for it, he reputedly hurt A LOT when he strapped you. On the hand, no perverts allowed.
Really, who would have thunk it. Sorry, couldn’t resist.
That’s why I put it out there.
(I have been known to get a bit cranky though.)
You, sweet pea? Never. :)
OK, back to work. Busy week.
These religiobots are obsessive about the most trivial inanities. It would be nice to know whether all catholics are as anal as these new commenters, or whether the worst self-selected to post here.
I do hope you’re not another one of these newbie fools who mistakes me for a theist — just because I’m literate and know the rules of grammar. Watch for people capitalizing words like Love and Truth — those are the genuine godbots.
#889,
Yes, Europe’s looking. You have no reason to be embarassed. We have our own nutters to deal with, like that Cardinal from my country who expressed his displeasure at an art exhibit at a clerical museum, declaring that art without reverence for God was degenerate (using the same term the Nazis used for modern ‘ungermanic’ art). He also equated abortion with the Holocaust and asserted that officially registered homosexual partnerships endangered ‘constitutionally established morals’. Or politicians defending the unconstitutional obligation in one state for schools to place Christian crosses in every classroom – it is now unconstitutional only when someone protests. The same politicians who demanded a tightening of blasphemy laws to prevent ridicule of religion in caricature and other forms of art altogether.
Truth, I wasn’t claiming anything. I never said I agreed with her. Plus, my poor grammar skills made my point unclear. I didn’t mean the actual names of the gods, just the word “god”.
She taught mythology so I guess she thought she could get away with indoctrinating us. Her examples were something like, “The god Zeus lived on Mt. Olympus.” and “You must not take God’s name in vain.”
The power of that cyberpistol increases with every reaction of the religionists.
The more pathetic, ridicule, delusional the reaction, the higher the power increases.
With the quantity of religionists out there, this means that potentially, this cyberpistol has quasi limitless power.
The only way the religionists can stop feeding this cyberpistol, is to stop being pathetic, ridicule and delusional in their reactions.
Which is something they obviously have no idea how to do.
So Foley is probably correct in his analysis : “no religionist can stop this cyberpistol”.
I remember aged about 8, when asked to write a sentence containg the word ‘god’ I (being a well read 8yo) wrote: Thor was the Viking god of thunder. My teacher told me it was wrong because there was only one god.
Uh, was this a complaint about capitalization … of the first word of the sentence? Or just the use of “god” in general? Were you supposed to write “Thor was the Viking’s mythical wielder of thunder who supposedly lived in Asgard”, so as to avoid the word?
Mind you we had to cut Mr Murray some slack
That’s one heck of a lot of slack.
I can understand that christians want their gods name capitalized, but they should have thought of that before they usurped the term god to exclusively refer to their god as if it was his name.
Now they’ve got to deal with people like me who make sure never to refer to the god of christianity by this supposed name, but only his alleged job description at best.
Capitalizing the names of religious sects makes no sense either, but for different reasons. Suffice to say that religious groups where I live are no more significant then people who engage in a particular sport, and the latter don’t get capitalized, so I can’t see any reason why I would grace religious groups with the honor of a capitalized first letter.
Nope. Long time lurker. So, given that you are an english-savvy evil-lutionist… does that make you a Grammar-Nazi?
Rarusvir:
Yes, Europe is watching. And yes, do not be ashamed at all. We have religiotards too – remember the Vatican?
Truth machine, your post #861 made me spit coffee with laughter.
Sorry, heh heh, but with such a set up, I couldn’t resist.
#889
FTFY
So, given that you are an english-savvy evil-lutionist… does that make you a Grammar-Nazi?
Not quite: http://www.nobeliefs.com/images/FriedrichCoch.jpg
“Uh, was this a complaint about capitalization … of the first word of the sentence? Or just the use of “god” in general? Were you supposed to write “Thor was the Viking’s mythical wielder of thunder who supposedly lived in Asgard”, so as to avoid the word?”
I had a similar experience in first or second grade.
I don’t remember the teacher’s question, but my answer was “god.” It may have been as simple as “give me a three-letter word starting with g.”
Anyway, I just said “god,” which around here anyway comes out as a short, quick “gaad.”
She showed a bit of irritation and responded “yes, or Gawwwwwd.”
I dunno if its like that everywhere, but there’s a clear distinction here – “god” is gaad and “God” is gawwwwwwd.
Even then I thought it was silly, but I recognized religion as being nut when I was 4.
Rarusvir 889,
What do you mean with this question ?
Is America looking ?
“Is America looking ?”
America’s funny-looking.
Wow… Paranoid Schizophrenic much?
lol
Okay, so I read about 400 posts and skimmed many more and did not find what I was looking for which a thousand wtf’s about the missing link between PZ’s cracker call and the RNC. Seriously and really, is there a link between the two that I’m missing? Trying very hard to see the correlation. Nope. Not seeing it.
wowbagger #325: “No doubt unconsecrated crackers have been sent to PZ as well. Are you claiming to be able to tell the difference between ‘just a cracker’ and the eucharist?
Can you explain how you’d go about that?”
I say consecrate them all and let God sort ’em out.
“You wouldn’t show similar respect to my god, if I had one, would you?”
Of course I would. The Buddha. Krishna. et. al.
I truly feel sorry for you. That you can hate this much. May God forgive you for desecrating His Son’s body, which IS TRULY present in a consecrated Host. May Jesus have mercy upon your soul as well as your cohorts.
Pavel Chichikov @840: “god” is a job description, not a person.
And the position appears to be vacant.
do you eat beef?
As he forgives you for eating him. Cannibal.
Well, I guess by posting here, I am officially name # 1,000,001 on the terror watch list.
Umm, now about police protection for the human being, a.k.a. PZ Myers, who was threatened with death and physical assault–with real, not cyber pistols.
Off Topic but not sorry:
Will Femia over at Clicked (my second favorite blog) linked to Ugly Overload and they had a really cool video of octopi. Er, octopii? Octopusses.
It was good to not think about crackers for a minute.
http://uglyoverload.blogspot.com/
@#921
hehehe, no I imagine there is no rational link. But if it’s getting close to election time for this guy, he’ll take anything he can get for the PR and something to “bray” about. He’s just playing politician games where he’ll take ANYTHING and twist it out of proportion. If this means starting imaginary wars and then pretending to win them for the benefit of the constituency, then I’m sure he’s not beneath that. Especially if he can drag in ethnicity, religion and “bigotry”, which are always big-ticket items.
What a braying moron. And I’m Irish-American, so I guess I can say that without insulting myself. I’d never heard the term braying used as a derogatory term for the Irish though, very odd.
Why would anyone who doesn’t believe that Hosts can be consecrated want to steal a consecrated wafer? It sounds like the act of an old-fashioned village atheist who stands in the middle of the highway and dares God to strike him with a thunderbolt, or that of someone who isn’t very mature, or even of someone who has a sneaking suspicion that there just might be something to it. A hands in the cookie jar sort of thing – in a manner of speaking.
mrsb91986
we don’t hate you at all, we just don’t believe in what you say. That’s all. Are you suggesting that we should believe in what you are saying ? So who is the intolerant person here ?
If you need a more detailed understanding of our postition and of your own church’s catechism, as well as the teachings of the Bible on this issue, I will refer you to my post #836.
And I would be very pleased to hear your comments once you have read this.
Thank you.
Waay back in #892:
“I eagerly await the post in which PZ desecrates the eucharist. It should prove amusing, considering how much reaction there has been to simply saying he’ll do it.”
My guess – something involving feeding them to a muslim. Everyone’s happy!
What I think he has done, he’s loaded a cyberpistol and he’s cocked it and he’s left it on the table.
Oooo. That sounds so sexy. I bet Foley was grasping his own little pistol when he said that.
He may have set something in motion that no one can stop.
Yeah. He may have made some people stop and think, and see the mind-raping stupidity of religious ritual.
He said it was “eye-opening” to read the people who supported Myers’ action. Even at his age of 63, Foley said, he had never “personally encountered such bigotry.”
So speaketh the old white man.
He also objected to Myers’ recent description of Catholic League President Bill Donohue as “braying,” which Foley, a self-described Irish Catholic, claimed was “a great insult for the Irish.”
Seems to me the comment is offensive to donkeys, in as much as it draws a comparison between Donohue and Equus asinus. My neighbors have a little herd of donkeys and from what I can tell they are quite intelligent animals.
I thought describing Donohue and this pinhead Foley as “braying” is an insult to asses the world over.
It doesn’t matter what you think, it’s a fucking grammar rule. – truth machine
But if there’s no God, how can there be grammar rules? Huh? Huh?
“I truly feel sorry for you. That you can hate this much. May God forgive you for desecrating His Son’s body, which IS TRULY present in a consecrated Host. May Jesus have mercy upon your soul as well as your cohorts.”
And I truly feel sorry adults with imaginary friends who like to pretend to cannablize that imagianry friend once a week. Derranged doesn’t even begin to describe these beliefs.
Everyone please keep your cyberpistols in your pants. Please for the children. For the children. Cyberpistols make baby jesus cray.
EXACTLY.
To all the Catholics so horrified by what PZ has threatened to do (and has not actually done anything) why can’t you follow the example of your own Jesus, who, while being mocked and tortured on the cross, said, “Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do”. Seems to me that if Jesus Himself could forgive His torturors for defiling His actual flesh, then you should be able to forgive someone for defiling his metaphorical flesh.
Why can’t you just move on, saying to yourself, “he doesn’t know what he does”. Being violently offended is not going to win you any points in Jesus’ eyes.
And besides, how do you really know that whatever is being done is being done to a consecrated wafer and not a “ante-consecrated” wafer?
@truth machine #886
Sheesh, do you always become illiterate when you’re short of sleep?
That’s one of the side-effects. Yes. Especially when combined with a big hang-over, as is today.
I sleep about 3 hours a day but I don’t have that problem. (I have been known to get a bit cranky though.)
That much is apparent. And a Grammar-Nazi as well, obviously.
I guess there’s more imporant things to do than commenting on my butchering the language.
The Buddha. Krishna. et. al. – Gods Pavel Chichikov would have respect for.
Buddhists do not consider Gautama Siddhartha (“The Buddha”) a god, O ignorant one.
Why is it that atheism and conceit always seem to go hand in hand. It seems that SOME non-believers tend to prop themselves up as a god when they do not believe in Him.
Mr. Myers, regardless of what you may think about us Catholics, why don’t you just leave what we hold sacred alone? Why the attack? If you think it’s just a cracker then fine. Mock us, but suggesting that people go into chruches and walk out with the Eucharist is juvenile at best.
We need more comments of morally lost people who consider crackers way more important than human lives.
I’m not sure if there’s a category for the immorality displayed by the people here who don’t even stop to recognize the death threats being made by their fundies and immediately show off their persecution complex as if someone here has done anything wrong or is even interested in their delusions.
If only the people who made you go here had told you eh? Must be pretty cool living in an information vacuum where reality conforms to everything you are told.
Perhaps that crackerhead Foley needs to be made aware that his fellow Virginian Thomas Jefferson left a few cyber-IEDs lying around the country. They could go off any minute. Here’s one of them:
“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
Chapter 17, p 159.
Thomas Jefferson
Notes on the State of Virginia.
University of N. Carolina Press, 1996
ISBN-10: 0807845884
ISBN-13: 978-0807845882
I guess it’s probably because the religious folks that he’s proving a point to don’t leave atheists alone. They invent imaginary wars to martyr themselves to, try to teach our children that the world was created by an invisible god, pick fights over a cracker and send death threats…
Reason and logic is what atheists hold sacred, and those sacred things to us are not left alone by the religious.
Just sayin’… :/
There may be arrogance (earned or not), but no one here is trying to establish themselves as cult leaders.
See Overton’s Window.
I guess there’s more imporant things to do than commenting on my butchering the language.
I guess there are more imporant things to do than commenting on my butchering of the language.
No, not really.
Trivia: Did you know the phrase “God helps those who help themselves” does NOT refer to the biblical god? The phrase is not in the bible.
So what “god” does it refer to?
t comes from Benjamin Franklin’s Poor Richard’s Almanac. And Franklin and his contemporaries adapted it from one of Æsop’s fables–Hercules and the Waggoner (6th century BC). In the story, a waggoner’s heavy load becomes bogged down in mud. In despair, the waggoner cries out to Hercules for help. Hercules replies, “Get up and put your shoulder to the wheel. The gods help them that help themselves.”
It’s rather ironic that a polytheistic tale appealing to Greek mythology has now made its way into what believers think is in the pages of Scripture.
Source: http://www.9marks.org/CC/article/0,,PTID314526%7CCHID598014%7CCIID2413974,00.html
“braying,” which Foley, a self-described Irish Catholic, claimed was “a great insult for the Irish.”
Well, fuck me, *I* thought that would be “bog-trotter”
What he needs is more cyber-security to protect him from the cyber-pistol.
LOL
too funny….
@ 924
Ma’am, you are hated here about as much as YOU hate people from India. What? You don’t hate people from India? And you are not a racist or a bigot about them? Then why do you eat beef? In India, cows are to be treated like your mother and yet you slaughter, slice, dice, chop, grind, broil, bake and fricassee them for supper. That’s a mother symbol in that bun!
If the rule is everyone has to honor your religion, then turnabout is fair play: You have to honor everyone else’s religion. Did you know there is a religion that requires you to sweep the ground before every step?
If we are playing this game, that means you have to have roaches and mice. And lice.
But what if we don’t want roaches and mice and lice? Well, then we have to recognize that while their religious rites are fine for them, we choose not to believe as they do. We choose to spray our roaches, trap our mice, and pick our nits. We don’t mean any disrespect at all for the Jains, they can believe as they see fit, but the roaches must go.
That is all that PZ et al are saying about the host. To catholics it is the whole point of the religion, but to non-catholics, it is a cracker. As surely as you choose to not decorate cows or not walk barefoot with a broom, I choose to not worship a cracker. Can you accept that?
I think I saw a cyberpistol on an episode of Dr. Who, once. Maybe Foley has some trouble differentiating the SciFi channel from CNN.
T
Catholics, learn your catechism. If the person with the wafer is a believing catholic, then the Vatican says god’s in it; if the person with the fracker is NOT a believing catholic, per Vatican, your god is safely NOT in it.
Dave post 942, are you going to sites like Donohue’s or related catholic sites and telling them that assaulting a student and sending death threats to him nd PZ are more wrong than any desecration of your host could ever be? No I didn’t think so, way to show your priorities that a ‘fracken wafer’ is more important than a human life.
Perhaps now you will understand PZ’s reason for his stance. Though I doubt it, for with only a few notable exceptions, all we have seen from the majority of catholitards visiting here is rationalisations of the death threats sent to PZ and the student. That and the claim that atheists who reported a federal crime to the company who’s e-mail system was used to send death threat to PZ are as bad or even worse than the person actually making the death threat itself.
Now do you see why we think your religion demented and you priorities less than xian.
I’ve said this before, it’s quite basic to the atheist argument and it’s something few theists, apparently, can grasp:
Ray wrote:
Is it our choice? Could Ray choose to believe there was an invisible pink unicorn standing behind him? I could imagine there was one, but I couldn’t believe it. I might be able to choose to investigate the possibility of an invisible pink unicorn existing, but even then I’d need some motive to want to do that, and some form of evidence to consider.
If you can choose to believe whatever you want, wouldn’t that be a mark of insanity?
mrsb91986 (#924)
Please explain with a modicum of logic how putting supposed Jesus in my pocket is a desicration while eating him isn’t. And please explain how eating him brings me closer to him in some way other that the vitamin sort.
intertoobz really pissing me off today.
Again, catholics, learn your doctrine. It’s in the catechism, available at book stores everywhere.
In the possesion of a non-believer of any stripe, your doctrine is that god is not in the fracker. In the possesion of a True Catholic (of course), your god is in there.
Now why do I, an atheist, know your doctrine, yet you apparently think your god is trapped in the wafers PZ is getting?
“Mr. Myers, regardless of what you may think about us Catholics, why don’t you just leave what we hold sacred alone? Why the attack? If you think it’s just a cracker then fine. Mock us, but suggesting that people go into chruches and walk out with the Eucharist is juvenile at best.”
Often the best way to combat unintelligent ideas is to ridicule them loudly. And bring as much attention to them as possible. Not in order to change their mind but so others can see how moronic the ideas are. A little shame doesn’t hurt either.
It truly is amazing that PZ Myers still has not apologized and has not even acknowledged that his call to desecration on a massive scale was a mistake. Granted he does have the right to maintain his Godless views in our society but a line has to be drawn when he begins to infringe on the traditions of this Christian nation – of which Catholicism has always played a massive role.
He will have to watch his activism – that so many find distasteful and deeply offensive – now that government officials are aware of his behaviour and his position at UMM must surely be in jeopardy after Bill Donahue alerted people to the situation. There is a saying; “when in a hole, quit digging” and PZ would be wise to take heed – a phone call and letter expressing regret and remorse to the Catholic League would suffice and he might learn something about Christian charity.
Reading through some of these “comments,” I realize I miss the Long Ago and Far-off Times when the only people who could use the web were the ones smart enough to figure it out…
Pete Rook: Is this your page?
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/stchadsomegachurch/
Peter Rooke: When you catholitards apologise for all the wrongs done by you and yours over this one incident alone, let alone all the rest your church is responsible for, then perhaps you might have the right to ask PZ to apologise or reconsider. Until then, fuck off with your inane blathering and post hoc rationalisations of the death threats, why don’t you.
line has to be drawn when he begins to infringe on the traditions of this Christian nation – of which Catholicism has always played a massive role.
I call fractal wrongness.
Infringing and making fun of are two different things. PZ isn’t saying you can believe or practice cracker worship, or having a law against crackers. He making fun of a crack. Big difference.
This is not a christian nation. It’s a secular one. Get over it.
But I thought our country was founded by those trying to get away from religious zealots!
#961
but a line has to be drawn when he begins to infringe on the traditions of this Christian nation – of which Catholicism has always played a massive role.
Is if we needed another example, this as much as anything clearly reminds me of why I will never, ever take the resposnability of shining the light on religious dumbosity lightly. This guy is the reason it is soooo important to keep up that fight. This sort of “might makes right and my God is mightier than yours” mentality, and the delusion that his god and his point of view is the one my country should follow… makes me shudder.
Thanks, Pete Rook, for the reminder. I feel renewed.
Peter Rooke said:
Pete, after Bill Donohue’s tedious posturing and all the copious posts from your co-religionists on this blog, I think he’s learned more than any sane human being could possibly want to about the type and quality of “christian charity” on offer from the likes of the Catholic League.
There are no grammar rules, merely social conventions.
Then you are easily amazed.
It is not a christian nation, not that this is relevant. And I don’t think you are aware of catholicism’s historic role in the US.
Wanna bet money on it?
Somehow, that sounded more like a threat than a charitable offer. Funny how you people can’t tell the difference.
Other than that, turn the Eucharists you have recieved over to the nearest Catholic Church and get a life.
Posted by: kmerian | July 16, 2008 9:29 PM
Is that an order, asshole? By the way, I saw your Catholic Texan blog and noticed your double chin and fat face.
Is it too late for me to join the party. I mknow Ray is lying in little shredded pieces, but can I please stomp on some of the tatters?
Ray said:
Are you serious? Think for a moment about what your logic implies. You are personally criticizing our ideas, so by your own logic, you are a bigot.
Are you sure you don’t want to revise what you’ve said, genius?
#211: “What’s the deal with these Big Strong Men of The Lord also being the biggest pussies in the country?”
As alifelong fan of the female genitalia, I find that rcomparison offensive. However, given that I don’t consider said genitalia to be divine (sorry girls), I won’t be threatening to bash your head in with a rock
gdlchmst: yep sounds suspiciously like ‘bend over so we can forgive you’, business as usual then.
Ah, desecrating a consecrated host, the controversy that just keeps on giving.
Oh, wait, that’s *talking* about desecrating a holy host, or cracker, or Jesus bit, or whatever you want to call what is essentially the bread that won an award for “best impersonation of crunchy cardboard”.
True Bob, sorry, but you are just wrong. I looked through the Catechism and the Code of Canon Law, nowhere does it state that the presence of Christ in the Eucharist is dependent on the belief of the recipient.
Mr. Myers, regardless of what you may think about us Catholics, why don’t you just leave what we hold sacred alone? Why the attack?
You’re desecrating reason and logic — the things we hold “sacred” — by meddling in school curricula and government funding of science. We’ll leave the cracker alone when you leave the schools and government alone. Deal?
Didn’t think so.
Brian F (Comment #199):
I’m sure someone else has commented on this by now, but just to emphasise the curious phrasing:
Apparently, Brian F’s argument would be worth making only to someone who accepted the authority of the bible and was not prepared to consider any alternative points of view.
That must be one weak argument …
Pete Rooke
I recomend you go back and read post 953. It is just a cracker, just as steak is just a slice of cow. If you make the choice to give it higher value, that is fine, but don’t try to impose that view on others.
And that is what you are doing.
I think it will be time for PZ to apologise when the Catholic Church decides to support a woman’s to choose, supports gays having the same rights as the rest of us, stops its genocidal policy on condom use to prevent the spread of HIV, apologises for supporting vile fascist regimes in the last century and generally starts behaving like an organisation that has civilised values.
Since none of those things the Catholics have done can be called civilised, or polite and have caused a great deal of harm, let alone offence, I do trust Pete Rooke will join me condemning them.
Pete Rooke, it’s people like you that make me want to ridicule Catholics even more. You want an apology from PZ because he criticized Catholic terrorists who threatened to murder a student because he didn’t want to eat a cracker? Go fuck yourself shithead.
“True Bob, sorry, but you are just wrong. I looked through the Catechism and the Code of Canon Law, nowhere does it state that the presence of Christ in the Eucharist is dependent on the belief of the recipient.”
And who made the Catechism and Code of Canon Law, law ? How do you know those are correct ? You will need to provide evidence to support your contention that they are.
“bend over so we can forgive you”
The fact that certain homosexual paedophiles (incidentally the two aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive) have infiltrated the church, in small isolated numbers, has no bearing on the overall moral benefit and direction that Catholicism has provided this country – and much of the civilized world – through times of crisis. For that we should all be grateful although that would apparently be too much to hope for.
… and another 1000+ post thread looms into view.
I honestly believe the Internet will eventually be the death of religion. This whole cracker incident is not on the scale of a mortal blow, but it’s certainly opened a nasty wound. Nobody’s actually done anything here except talk, and look at the amount of heat it’s all generated. Now we need to turn all this heat into light.
Superstition fades in the light of reason and logic.
@Pete Rooke
christian nation:
My god is bigger then yours, so stuff it or I will scream persecution and make your life miserable with all my friends.
Secular nation:
Your ideas on god are your own and of no consequence to the pursuit of happiness.
I hope that explains things to the people flocking here who were apparently never educated on different types of governments.
Oops, messed up my italics tag. Never mind, the point was made.
Peter Rooke,
You have things backwards. The Catholic Church should take the high road on this crackergate brouhaha. They should tell everybody at UCF who is pressing trumped up charges against Webster Cook to drop them, and give him a formal apology for the death threats made against him. Secondly, they can tell Bill Donohue to shut up and stop using Catholic in the name of his organization as it embarasses them. Third, they can apologize to PZ for the death threats he has received, and then take appropriate action against those who did make death threats.
But I think the sun will rise in the west before that happens. Until then, filter your arguments using Christ’s Golden Rule, which can be found in Matthew and Luke. You attitude indicates you need a refresher in that concept.
“The fact that certain homosexual paedophiles (incidentally the two aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive) have infiltrated the church, in small isolated numbers, has no bearing on the overall moral benefit and direction that Catholicism has provided this country – and much of the civilized world – through times of crisis. For that we should all be grateful although that would apparently be too much to hope for.”
It is not so much that some priest have turned out to like molesting children that has angered people. That could happen in any organisation that deals with children.
What has angered people is the fact that for years the Catholic Church did nothing to prevent such crimes. It just moved priests so accused to new posts. It is the cover up and refusal to acknowledge the problem that is the real problem. Unless and until the Catholic Church removes all those who were involved in the cover up it is nothing short of an criminal organisation.
a phone call and letter expressing regret and remorse to the Catholic League would suffice and he might learn something about Christian charity.
Yes, threatening someone’s life and lively hood because he is a wrong thinker is such an act Christian charity.
Bray:
Middle English, from Anglo-French braire to cry, bellow, roar, from Vulgar Latin *bragere, of Celtic origin; akin to Old Irish braigid: he breaks wind
No one look at the organization providing those child rapists constant access to children, moving them to new hunting grounds, and keeping them hidden from legal authorities, right Rooke.
@966, I thought the US was founded by religious nuts with guns :-).
John Morales in #507:
OK, I’ll beat that dead cayuse: For more than one reading of “genetic,” evidently. I wonder if Ron-in has a ten-gallon hat in his stereotype closet with those boots. Maybe if he wore it, things wouldn’t go over his head so readily.
I still think Mr. Foley has invited Jesus to the Republican convention and really thinks he’ll show. Why an almighty god would need added security is anyone’s guess.
#330: (P.S. Since Foley seems to think the RNC is threatened – does that mean the RNC is a cracker? Or does Foley think he is Christ? I’m confused.)
I’m rather behind on reading the thread, so someone may have addressed this, but here goes anyway…
You’ve missed the point. The cracker IS Christ, therefore Foley is the cracker AND Christ. That is the essence of the Foley Trinity.
@Pete Rooke
So much wrong, so little time. So I’ll just leave you with one request. Show me one thing that catholics contributed to the society that we wouldn’t have without.
Unfortunately we ultimately bear responsibility for our own actions and those homosexuals who committed those acts will, as well as their accomplices, will eventually face judgement – and rightly so – despite perhaps escaping the wrath of our legal system which pales in comparison.
“catholics contributed to the society that we wouldn’t have without.”
The path to salvation.
We can’t blame the Church for protecting child rapists and giving them constant access. Nope–just faggots.
that;’s a good little Nazinger sheep.
True Bob and Kmerian:
Damn you both, for making me wade through such awful word salad as, “This presence is called ‘real’ – by which is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be ‘real’ too, but because it is presence in the fullest sense” WTF does that mean anyway?
In anycase, as near as I can tell, Kmerian is correct, the catechism does not make any provision for the presence of Christ to leave the cracker based on the belief of the recipient. In fact, it says rather the opposite, “The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist.”
Not that I believe any of this crap, just wanted to set the record straight.