And in keeping with that fine circus tradition, the Duggar Family is about to have their 18th child.
You know, they have successfully turned their freakish excesses into a profitable enterprise, but it really isn’t at all sustainable — I think the superficial news market can only bear one amazing repeatedly distended vagina at a time, and if any of their children try a repeat performance it’s going to be ho-hum, and profligacy in child-rearing will be just another symptom & cause of poverty, neglect, and ignorance.
Nine months between babies? WTF? It’s really icky to think about, but he must be doing her as soon as she’s off the delivery table.
There’s a poster for this.
I thought this was pretty disgusting, myself, and that a cable network would encourage this kind of indiscriminate, excessive breeding is disgraceful. Naturally, the bunnies in question are very religious so that’s 18 little homeschooled, reality-denying Evangelicals to help undermine democracy once they are of voting age. And mom and dad are fully prepared to keep popping more out if it’s God’s will. < *brrrr*>
That’s a lot of peanut-butter and ignorance sandwiches.
Wow, their thinking as truly finally tanked.
People with more than two children should pay a tax for each one they produce after that to make up for the strain they put on natural resources.
BLTDS sandwiches too!
Children or carbon sinks? Hmmm…
I assume we’ve all seen Mark Morford’s epic piece on this family?
The eldest is shocked that a 17th sibling is en route? Did he miss the sixteen previous or something?
Must be really sturdy clothes they buy to start with, getting handed down 8 to 10 times… (what is the sex ratio?).
This made the Aussie morning TV show I was watching this morning, and they thought it very, very strange (fundamentalism got a mention, as did home schooling..).
Damn it’s 5:45am here, and I got 1 hour 15 mins more before finishing my shift. You guys are making me hungry! Enough with the sandwiches.
Sorry for the off-topic, but did anyone notice how the National Day of Prayer racecare did in NASCAR?
http://www.ndptf.org/press_room/Index.cfm?Entity=4&Department=4&Dept_Order=1&This_TopicOrder=1&This_SubtopicOrder=6
I heard 25 of 44.
Those parents are certainly fond of the letter ‘J’. Douchebags.
The father was a member of congress for the state of Arkansas. Go ahead and guess his name. Fucking Jim-Bob. I think the “fucking” part is just a knick-name his friends gave him.
Jinger? Seriously?
Hey, how about a tax credit for murder and suicide! And twice the credit if you use a resource that isn’t consumed, like a knife, instead of a gun.
So, statistically we should expect, given that there will eventually be 20 children, that at least two will be gay, and two will be atheists?
As always, it reminds me of the (apparently apocryphal) story of Groucho Marx on You Bet Your Life. There is a contestant on there who is a housewife with 11 kids.
GM: Gee, why do you have so many kids?
HW: Well Groucho, I love my husband.
GM: I love my cigar, too, but I take it out of my mouth once in a while.
To bad it’s not true, but it is funny.
I think Jinger is better than a name like Jedidiah. Those kids are going to need a large support group. Imagine an only child showing up to the ball field to play. “Your name is what? Were going to hang you by your underwear from that tree branch and then pick teams. Ok who is going to be the other captain?”
This family ( as most of those Quiverful idiots do) disgust me. Mumma pops out one every year and, by her own admission, has fuck all to do with them after about three months. At that age she “assigns” one of the elder girl children ( not the boys ,mind) to raise the baby. Nothing like servitude and enforced motherhood at the age of 12. Unlike boring run of the mill Catholics ( of which my family is) they don’t even believe in abstaining to prevent children. Oh no, these freaks actually believe you HAVE to keep conceving to be into the godly way.
These dickheads are my particular bugbear and I have a real problem with the whole attitude they have. And screw anyone who says if they can afford it then let it be. Bollocks they can afford it. By their own admission most of their house has been donated ( in terms of materials and labour for building) and their clothing and vehicle.
There is no way ANY parent can give adequate time, attention and love to the individual child when there is 18 of them. These people are breeding for the most selfish and arrogant of reasons and, although I have spent far too much time and energy studying these twats and their lifestyle ( call it my personal project if you will), I’ll continue to do so and continue to send emails to their website suggesting that a condom may not be a bad thing.
says they’re both real estate agents. if their money is in the housing market, we should be seeing a lot of little match-girls and paper-boys out there pretty soon.
you know, historically this rate of pregnancy is not too far out of the ordinary for well-fed post agricultural revolution human beings. women w/ 10-20 live births are not too uncommon among contemporary luddites (e.g. menonites), or among historical records about the petty nobility of medieval europe.
which brings me to the plague. traditionally, a lot of those live births would have died before year one, a fair number more before year 16 or whenever they themselves might breed. effect rate of replacement might be four reproducing offspring for each parental pair, maybe six if you’re lucky, but not all 20. and what with losing 14 of your kids to the reaper, you get a bit maudlin and life-hating (as well as deeply anemic, if you’re the woman, and very likely dead by early 40s).
it was a horrible life before vaccines, medicine, and stable food supplies. but that’s the kind of life in which it made some (evolutionary) sense to pop out dozens of live births. after all, rabbits don’t breed like rabbits because they love the intellectual challenge of child-rearing and the companionship of developing minds. they do it because most of the predatory world views them as protein-factories popping out delicious rabbitty tid-bits for noshing, and only excess production will ensure a few making it through).
in the contemporary context, there’s really no excuse. it’s mere selfishness. and yet they dress it up as god’s will. selfishness masquerading as god’s will? good lord–that must be unprecedented.
And let me be the first to crudely comment that, after 17 kids, as Mr Shrek puts it, it’d just be like throwing a hotdog up a corridor.
Just a reminder for the Duggars.
People like these are a perfect example of why membership in VHEMT is a good idea….
Nine months between babies? WTF? It’s really icky to think about, but he must be doing her as soon as she’s off the delivery table.
No, she just found out she is pregnant and it has been 9 months since the last one was born. Further down in the article it says the kids average 18 months apart.
I saw that the headline included “18 children” and thought, “They have gotta be homeschooled.” And it was so.
My personal opinion is that they like having sex too much that they cannot help it… and they use this “Pumpin` for God” excuse to justify it.
Excuse my language, but I really think it’s a bit disgusting.
#22: “…after 17 kids, as Mr Shrek puts it, it’d just be like throwing a hotdog up a corridor.”
That would be after 10 kids. After 17, it’d be like tossing a chipolata into the Chunnel.
Reading through these people’s story, the one thing that springs out for me is…obsession (though PTSD might describe it too.) The mother seems to have been traumatized by an early miscarriage (which they quite incorrectly blame on her being on birth control when she got pregnant) and they were recruited in their grief into one of these Quiverfull groups. Now she seems to have contrived to be as constantly pregnant as is possible for a human. Just look at how she describes the difficulty of surprising her family with the new pregnancy news:
“My girls watch the calendar like a hawk.”
And we know full well who trained them to do so. It’s damned near clinical OCD. Not that we should be surprised at that; Quiverfull has always been a radical movement that attracted the most damaged types. She’s simply found those who will enable her obsession.
The one good thing about all this is that it will almost certainly breed a couple of died-in-the-wool atheists. Most of their kids will probably tow the parental line, it’s true, but given the size of this particular population the odds are that some of them will be exposed to a world and ways of thinking that will break them out of the obsessive envelope their parents have created. Some might become more mildly religious as a result, but I’d bet that one or two will abandon religion altogether, especially if something breaks up this (apparently) tidy little family dynamic.
Of course, that may happen quite soon. Notice that the story mentions that the family’s income derives from both parents being real estate agents. While they may not be experiencing the housing meltdown of someplace like Las Vegas or L.A., real estate is down there too, at least 10-15% in value and (as is true elsewhere) sales are off. Throw some serious financial stress into a pool of obsession like this family and you’re likely to see an implosion. Not that I’d wish that on the kids, but then…I didn’t, their parents did. I only hope the kids manage to survive this and escape the indoctrination (and implosion) relatively intact.
@21: 18-20 kids is still at the far end of the bell curve for non-birth-control families. I’ve done genealogy as a hobby for a while, and most of my rural kin from the mid-to-late 1800’s seem to top out at 12-13 births, spaced pretty regularly every 2 years (give or take a few months) from a marriage at 20-ish to menopause. I’ve found some men who fathered closer to 20 kids, but all of them were widowed and took a much younger woman for a second wife.
I’d like to think of my ancestors as resolutely average, and the “2 years spacing” rule of thumb is considered pretty reliable by genealogists.
Even taking the two sets of twins into account, the Duggars must be going out of their way to conceive, even beyond “leaving it in God’s hands” – or else she’s proof of the idea that breast feeding suppresses ovulation, if she passes each kid off to a sister at 3 months, an option not available before the invention of baby formula.
#29–
yeah, the kids will survive the wreckage. most of them will turn out atheists; a few will dig themselves deeper into the delusion. the gay ones will write tell-all memoirs and have fewer children; several of the straight ones will have their tubes tied as early as possible. they’ll all need a hell of a lot of therapy and deprogramming, but in the end they’ll survive it all.
all except those little jackets with the bowties from majeff’s #23. decades from now, they’re going to wake up screaming about the little jackets and bow-ties.
#30–agreed. i fudged it by saying “10-20”.
you’re surely right that 10 would be closer to the mean, and 20 would be more sd.s out.
When Jim Bob says, “We just let the Lord decide,” I just hear “Ia! Ia! Shub-Niggurath, goat of the woods with a thousand young, Ia!”
And why the fuck is his name “Jim Bob”?
This makes my blood boil.
Families with more than one child should be taxed. When the world is overpopulated, breeding is not a right but a privilege; and not one that should be bestowed lightly.
I’d have no problem sleeping at night if this fat blob was given a compulsory abortion on my shilling. I just wonder where you’d find someone who could do the job without “accidentally” snicking her fallopian tubes during the process.
Cathy W @ # 30
Unlike other religions which “leave it in god’s hands” the Quiverful mob actually do actively try and get pregnant as often as possible. It’s not about actually raising the child, it’s about just giving birth to them apparently.
If anyone wishes to have their eyeballs bleed from the glucose sweet photos ( although it is quite fun to read between the lines of the captions) try their website. Pay particular attention to the girl’s outfits and hairstyles.
http://www.duggarfamily.com/aboutus.html
Honestly I’be been giving Jim-Bob and Michelle a reasonable amount of shit for a for years now so it’s time for some of you other Pharyngulites to take up the mantle. Their email is their on the website, they’ve put themselve out there for public scrutiny – pass on the comments.
When the Soylent Green factory goes on line, I say we make the first batch out of the Duggers.
Bride of Shrek (#22):
Where I come from, the saying is “hot dog down a hallway”. Alliteration, you know.
I did a blog post on this bunch when the last offspring appeared. (Click on my name).
An organic Pez dispenser.
Pull her head back a tad and another one pops out.
I’ll be charitable and call it r-selection.
PZ, I really liked the title you chose for this post. so funny and so fitting. You have a great sense of humor!
Here is an essay that was written for Bitch a few months ago. As you can guess, the people in the Quiverfull movement reject all forms of feminism and are fighting the good fight in the cultural war.
First off, I’d just like to say hello to everyone. I’m a long time reader and a first time poster. I guess all it took was PZ using the words “Distended Vagina” in his post for me to break my lurk-i-tude.
Speaking of distended vaginas, at which number does labor become non-laborious? I’m guessing that around or after giving birth to child number 5 that the child birth became a breeze for her. Really, the kids must just launch out of her va-jay-jay like Pop-Tarts leaping out of a toaster with a bad spring.
Plus, the father’s name is Jim-Bob? Seriously? That’s just too perfect. A family of ignorant, Bible-thumping rednecks with 18 kids and the father is named Jim-Bob. 100% awesome.
#42–
“like Pop-Tarts leaping out of a toaster ”
actually, like blueberry pop-tarts.
with built-in digital calculators.
in accordance with the word of the lord,
“be fruit-filled, and multiply!”
This scene from Monty Python’s The Meaning of Life seems very appropriate:
Every sperm is sacred
This is heartening news. We need these children to push Homo sapiens back from the brink of extinction. Praise God!
Some groups have an extremely pronatalist ethos.
The Hutterites are one of these.
The Impact of Maternal Age and Ovarian Age on Fertility by Steven D. Spandorfer, M.D., October 12, 2003, InterNational Council on Infertility Information Dissemination:
“the birth rate of the Hutterites is one of the highest on record, with an average of 11 live births per married woman.”
The Palestinians are another. Pro-natalist attitudes are fostered as a political duty during the ongoing conflict with Israel.
“Last week, Newsweek-Washington Post’s Lally Weymouth interviewed Hamas’s new prime minister, Ismail Haniyeh, by phone in his home in the refugee camp where he lives with his wife and 12 children in Gaza.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/24/AR2006022402317_pf.html
In traditional societies these extremes are far less likely to occur, for a number of reasons. First, long breastfeeding periods and high energetic loads suppress female fertility. Second, if children were born too close together the older would often die from early weaning. The nutritional disease kwashiorkor means ‘the rejected one.’
However, all humans have far more reproductive potential than do great apes, with shorter birth intervals. Because of this, humans can recover quickly from reproductive crashes and colonize new environments. In fact, humans are remarkable fecund and invasive for a large-bodied, high-investing (in each offspring), and long-lived species. (For example, see Hill and Hurtado, Ache Life History, 1994)
But with less capricious mortality and enhanced ability to invest in the resource-acquiring potential of offspring, fertility predictability declines in most populations around the world. Therefore the best hope for drastically reducing human population growth and perhaps shrinking human population is not the rise in Malthusian parameters (hunger, disease) – for one, these are ineffective for humans in the long runs – but to ensure better standards of living and education for people everywhere. I would place special emphasis on drastically reducing the prevalence of infectious diseases from HIV to bilharzia.
Speaking of distended vaginas, at which number does labor become non-laborious?
It does not. My mother was was pregnant ten times with eight live births. A couple of those birth were actually “easy” births. But her last pregnancy came close to killing her. She was bed ridden for almost three months and toke an other three months for her to get back to full strength.
Giving birth is so full of dangers that it never gets any easier. Please check on what birthing was like before there was modern medicine. Medicine done more to ease life for mothers then god ever did.
Clearly all youall are just envious of their high simple Darwinian fitness. Chuckle!
My wife lived near a family that had 17 kids, I think it was. They had to have two houses next door to each other to hold them all.
However, they didn’t get everything free like these a-holes do. They actually supported the kids by hardwork, and not by religious PR. Their kids went to public school (I met one of them who was about my wife’s age).
They were catholic.
The Duggars are living proof of my assertion that babies are cheap and well-raised kids are expensive. I hear that they get a lot of stuff donated to them, likely by virtue of having a huge family, which ticks me off to no end. I keep thinking that a more realistic attitude to take would be, “So you got knocked up again. What do you want, a cookie?!”
My Inner Fascist says that she hopes that when Mrs. Duggar starts losing teeth and height from constant pregnancy (the conventional wisdom, pre-near-universal birth control used to be “one tooth per child,” which wouldn’t leave Mrs. Duggar with enough teeth to eat an unsliced apple), her doctor tells her exactly why she needs dentures and has osteoporosis.
Then again, I’m one of these committed nulliparas — you couldn’t pay me enough to gestate one, let alone eighteen, so I’m definitely biased.
AJS @34. Why pick on the woman? It takes two, IIRC.
I’m sure the kids are mostly nice. I’m sure some of them are wondering how weird their parents must be.
Of course, there will be folks who will take us to task for wishing that most of these children did not exist, as if critics of the Duggars have some special animus toward the youngsters. Those folks should stop reading this blog because they’re obviously neglecting their procreational responsibilities. (Don’t you realize you’re preventing another adorable child from coming into the world every time you skip an opportunity for sex! Why do you hate children so much?)
“You’ve had 18 abortions? Good for you! It’s your choice!”
“You’ve had 18 children? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU??? ARE YOU SOME FUNDAMENTALIST NUTCASE??? IT’S A VAGINA, NOT A CLOWN CAR!!!”
Frickin’ hypocritical choicers.
jsn, ever hear of condoms? maybe one day when you’re older, i’ll tell you about them
At least these kids will grow up knowing that unprotected sex=babies. A useful life lesson I think.
Nobody would be cheering her on if she had 18 abortions.
Nice try at creating a strawman, moron.
“You’ve had 18 abortions? Good for you! It’s your choice!”
Ever seen anyone say this? Ever?
jsn making shit up. What are the odds that a right-wing fuckwit would do something like that? I’m stunned I tell ya. Stunned.
Dennis N, ever hear of the choice not to use condoms?
@ Una
You’re right, of course. Pass me a couple of house bricks — and this time, I must remember to keep the thumbs on the outside!
Ever hear of overpopulation? Pregnancy risks? Proper parenting? Responsibility? STDs? Do you have any good reason why condoms are a bad choice that should be avoided?
Oh, you certainly may not outwardly cheer such a thing on, but you most certainly would defend a woman’s right to choose to have 18 abortions. Six of one, half-dozen of the other.
Of course, having 18 children is a lot safer than having 18 abortions.
Yes, kikuchiyo #44 Monty Python is perfect here.
In fact I think there are few occasions that could not benifit from a dose of Monty Python.
This is truly absurd. And a little disgusting. Regardless of how cute some of those little buggers are.
I hate that icky feeling of self-righteousness the couple seem to exude. All they did was have a ridiculous amount of kids.
Hardly the same thing. I defend your right to be an utter berk, but it doesn’t mean I’m cheering you on.
jsn, how about not getting pregnant? It’s not a choice between abortion or having the child. They know ahead of time that sex leads to babies.
Of course, you have the statistics to back this up?
Funny you should mention that, I’m watching the Maury show right now!
#61
has anyone here suggested picketing the ob-gyn clinic at which she gave birth?
has anyone here suggested passing legislation making it a crime for her to give birth?
has anyone here agitated for murdering ob-gyns who deliver live-births, and then shot and killed her ob-gyn from an ambush?
no?
then could we have better trolls, please?
asshole.
Sure. Prove to me that the U.S. is overpopulated. Prove to me that this woman is facing untreatable pregnancy risks. Prove to me that this couple is not practicing proper parenting (claiming 18 kids is not proper parenting doesn’t count). Prove to me they’re being irresponsible (ditto on the last one). Prove to me they’re risking STDs.
Where the hell did I say anything of the sort? Looks like you can’t own up to your hypocritical stance regarding choice, so you’re going on the attack against me and creating arguments that I never used. (Gosh, a libtard being dishonest? Who’d have thunk it)
Blake Stacey and Bride of Shrek, how about “throwing a hotdog up High Street”? I think that was from Trainspotting.
I didn’t bring up abortion, and I never stated my stance on it. This story has nothing to do with abortion.
There have been no formal studies that I can find, but do searches for medical information on the risks of having multiple abortions and of having multiple pregnancies and you’ll find a lot more warnings about abortions than pregnancies.
This story has nothing to do with abortion.
Silly. Everything is about abortion.
I recall hearing that he had to strap a 2×4 across his ass so he wouldn’t fall in. (lame old joke from sometime Back In The Day)
jsn, here’s how it would go in real life.
BOOB: I’ve had 18 abortions!
LIBERAL: What the hell!!?? Are you a moron? Haven’t you heard of birth control?
BOOB: Jim-Bob doesn’t like condoms.
LIBERAL: Then go on the pill! Or get a diaphragm and spermicide!
BOOB: You’re a hypocrite! You don’t want me to choose!
LIBERAL: Yeah, it’s your choice, and your choice makes you an idiot.
jsn, you’re a disingenuous, lying creep. And you know very well there’s a difference between “You have that choice”, and “I think that’s great!” Viz. people can start their own Nazi party, that’s their choice. And I’m free to call them a bunch of racist fuckwits WITHOUT stifling their freedom of political activity. Likewise, a woman can have 18 abortions if she wants, and I’m free to criticise her actions without banning them. You seem to have no idea of the concept of disagreeing with a person without simultaneously repressing them and restricting their freedom of action. It’s a dangerous situation.
BTW: 18 abortions performed by a doctor in a clinical setting are actually *safer* for a woman than 18 pregnancies.
@ jsn #58
Sorry but if you are looking for a battle of the wits here I have to tell you you have brought a knife to a gun fight.
No, fools, it has to do with your sacred cow of “choice.” If you truly believed in “a woman’s choice,” then you have no business berating this woman on her’s just as you would argue that I have no business berating another woman for choosing to have multiple abortions. If you want to defend “choice,” then you must also defend and not ridicule “choice” that disagrees with your personal views. But, of course, we all know that when you refer to “choice,” all you really care about is abortion, and this issue proves it.
jsn, what is your point, exactly? There are lots of ways not to have kids – condoms, hormonal birth control, NOT HAVING SEX (which the religious people seem inordinately fond of), timing sex not to coincide with fertile periods (which kind of works, sometimes), breastfeeding to suppress ovulation (which works quite well, if you don’t hand off your kid to an older one to take care of at the 3 month mark the way Michelle Duggar does). Not having lots of kids =/ having lots of abortions. I think you need a good sex ed class.
I recall hearing that he had to strap a 2×4 across his ass so he wouldn’t fall in. (lame old joke from sometime Back In The Day)
Yikes! I forgot to close off the blockquote.
No one was defending choice. It was never mentioned until you came along. She has the choice to take birth control. Or to make Jim-Bob use condoms.
Oh, please. Many of the attitudes here go well beyond simply disagreeing with this couple’s choice and you know it.
Because women and children so very rarely died from childbirth. Because women to so finely designed to pass that baby through the pelvic region. That was some great engineering there.
#53 jsn: Begone, foul troll.
I wonder if she can remember all their names.
It’s not like giving them ones that all start with J helped any…
If you want to defend “choice,” then you must also defend and not ridicule “choice” that disagrees with your personal views. But, of course, we all know that when you refer to “choice,” all you really care about is abortion, and this issue proves it.
Ah, but no. I defend her right to have 18 children. Hell, she’ll be fertile for a few more years, she’ll probably end up with 21 or so. That’s entirely her decision, especially since they are not taking public money for raising them (except for the tax breaks). Just because she has the right to have them, though, doesn’t mean I can’t criticize her decision. Exactly like Hairhead said, exactly like kid bitzer said. And really, I think I can say that all of us prefer birth control to abortion, simply because abortion is a procedure that is hard on the woman having one (although not nearly as hard as pregnancy). Have you noticed that anti-choice people are also against birth control? Ever wonder why that is?
Oddly enough, I have a friend in the US who also has 17 siblings. Her parents are indeed religious (Eastern orthodox, I believe), but as far as I can tell, they were all able to get by decently, other than very long bathroom lines. My friend and at least one of her brothers also turned out to be rather competent geeks, what with the passion for Final Fantasy, Battlestar Galactica and World of Warcraft.
I don’t think they were religiously-guided in having that many children (I didn’t inquire too deeply as…well, I’m fond of her and wouldn’t want to put her family under a microscope); some people just genuinely like large families. they also don’t beg for media attention as the Duggars do, which I consider a good thing.
I have a proposal to be considered while we entertain jsn’s education in Christian Rhetoric (he’s got a B so far.)
They’ve got 17 J’s on the ground. (I’m reminded of Will Hunting rattling off his 12 imaginary brothers.) What J will they think of next? Maybe we can suggest a few. Don’t forget to account for twins…they’re at an increased incidence already.
They got a Judas yet?
ice
Jeorgina
Jasper?
As Hairhead has said, I think anyone who had 18 abortions would be getting the same crap. See my Groucho Marx line above: “I love my cigar, too, but I take it out of my mouth once in a while.”
If I met/heard of someone who had 18 abortions, I would say the same thing: haven’t you ever heard of birth control?
By the time you have your 15th pregnancy, abortion or not, you have a pretty good idea of what is causing it. Perhaps you should stop?
Anything with a J in place of a soft “G.” When I first read Jinger’s name, I thought it rhymed with “singer,” and was really unimpressed…
Amanda, you can continue to be unimpressed – they have a Jana, a Johanna, and a JoyAnna. Not only can they not think of decent girl J names (Julia, Juliet, Josephine?) they keep using the same ones over and over.
God DAMN, there’s another bunch of zealots!
When does it end? They’re homeschooled? Okay. But homeschooled in WHAT KIND of mentality? Is that healthy for these kids? I think not. And the weird focus on the J letter… What’s with the theme? These are your kids, be original and stop making a topic out of them. AND STOP SPROUTING THEM! We don’t need more demented catholics.
Carlie, something tells me that the names are make up just a small portion of why I’m unimpressed. :)
Perhaps hyphenation should be a requirement for the names of the kids to come: Jenn-Jenn or Julie-Janette or Jim-Joe.
A fun aside; by the rules of probability, they are likely to have at least two gay children! That should be fun to watch.
I’m going to go ahead and add my grammar to the list of things I’m unimpressed with.
My first thought was, “What is that? Swedish?”
Sadly, no. It’s just stupid.
Bugger the Duggars.
When I first heard of this last week, I read of it on sfgate.com. The first comment contained just one word.
“Jesus.”
I thought it was just about perfect.
You know, she’s just going to go right on having kids. The Bible says that people owe no apology for having as full a quiver as possible; that children are like wealth. This family does not view this as excess; they view this as a huge opportunity to be as rich as possible before God’s (non-existent /snark) eyes.
My take? Mental illness.
I made this comment on sfgate:
“On our next episode of The Breedin’ Duggars, watch as the jurisdictions of this family team together to build a bridge to the first century! Next Sunday at 9 p.m., ET. Parental discretion advised.”
Hematite (#70):
Man, I haven’t seen Trainspotting in years. You’ve just given me the weirdest nostalgia trip. . . .
#100:
It’s a bit late for that, don’t you think?
IIRC, you get $20 000 for each child when you hit the Day of Reckoning in the Game of Life.
In addition to $500 as a present from the other players.
Someone mentioned Morford:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/10/19/notes101905.DTL&nl=fix
We really need to start a religion that encourages only smart people to have bazillions of children, and discourage fools from reproducing too much. Now, who can we get to join this religion? Oh, wait.
Sacred cow of choice? Now having choices is a bad thing? No one is taking away her right to slide out larva after larva. We’re just exercising our choice to comment on why we feel it’s excessive, selfish, crazy, sad etc.
Jsn fails at trolling. Miserably.
Jim-Bob and Distended Vagina fail at raising their children. Forcing the older children to raise the younger ones (from three months on!) is neglecting their responsibility as parents. These kids are going to need counseling some day, and it’s not gonna be pretty.
Fine, I’ll say it: in hindsight, I would have cheered jsn’s mom on if she’d had an abortion.
My term for this: reproductive incontinence.
#102: I’m starting to get this whole irony/sarcasm thing down. I’m glad you noticed.
This whole thing with J names just proves this couple has OCD. It’s a perfect storm of lunacy. They’re both quite fertile, quite religious, and think having this many kids will put them in the high-rent district of Heaven. They’re going for the Mansion down the Street from the Lord. They want to be Moses’ neighbor.
If you asked them, don’t be surprised if that’s the answer you’d get. “So, you’re lookin’ to be on the same street as Noah and Moses, eh?”. I’m sure they’d get all red-faced and honestly answer in the affirmative.
And yes, jsn, I’d consider 18 abortions to be a sign of OCD, too. Sorry to disappoint you. I don’t think there’s a clinic out there that would not suggest such a person to be very careful out there and to have her tubes tied.
Handing a kid off to one of the 12-year old sisters to be raised once the kid hits 3 months is impossibly irresponsible. I have 2 kids myself, and they’re my responsibility. If I can’t take care of them, I shouldn’t have had them. Expecting a 12-year old to care for a 3-month old is just wrong.
I worked at a veterinary hospital for 13 years…if some of you will hold Jim-Bob down I’ll do the proper operation on him for free.
Zadig (#105) for the win.
I’ve said this before: You don’t see fundamentalists at MENSA meetings. Ever.
Above all, we should all feel sorry for these kids. And what’s with the oldest boy, 20 years old and living at home? Why isn’t he off in college or learning a job skill? And someday those kids will leave home and will not be able to handle normal society. And my advice to the daughters: GET OUT NOW!!! Your sex does not define your role in the world. There is more to being a woman than pushing out a baby every 2 years. And taking oral contraceptives DOES NOT cause miscarriage.
AND STOP SPROUTING THEM! We don’t need more demented catholics.
They’re not Catholic – they do the homechurch thing, where church is in the living room and Dad’s the pastor, and there are a few other families involved. So, basically, no outside influence to counter the crazy at all.
Hey! I lived at home until 22 and managed to both go to college and get a job and some mad skillz.
Poor jsn can’t seem to distinguish between “choice” and “consequences”.
Why am I not surprised?
#114- I bet they’re exempt from property taxes with that “homechurch” too.
well, if they have a Jinger, they might as well have a Jester,…
I saw Idiocracy over the weekend.
The premise for those who haven’t seen it is that stupid people breed like rabbits while smart people don’t and 500 years from now the average IQ hovers around 40.
I think it is very apropos to this post…
My wife (veterinarian) and I (Univ Professor) are expecting our first child in Dec. She is 37. I am 40. We are only about 16 behind this couple.
There’s an interesting discussion of the Kornbluth’s “The Marching Morons” and Idiocracy right here.
But isn’t this whole thread just one big concern trollpar excellence ?
Take a look at the photos section on their site. Does it matter a little: that the kids look happy and healthy (or does someone have evidence that the smiles are staged)? that the home looks to be remarkably well run? that there are no Iron Maiden t-shirts and piercings? that the kids all learn piano and violin, and do not sit sullen and slack-jawed in front of MTV and Family Guy? that the older ones have kitchen and laundry and child-care responsibilities (and is this not a way of living that’s fairly consistent with the environment primate brains evolved in)?
I understand the Malthusian issues that promotion of this lifestyle raises, and I don’t defend the religious basis for their worldview, but for FSM’s sake, how can you be so blind to the fact that all things considered, these kids are growing up in a home that easily surpasses the American average (and more likely the 80% point) in any fair measure of what constitutes a “good childhood” which would take into account things like safety, nutrition, social engagement, and even education? As for their education, no, I don’t expect this family to produce cutting edge physicists or investigative journalists (how many other families do anyway?) As much as I value a skeptical and independent mindset, I don’t instinctively hate the simple and wholesome. Why do you?
jsn —
Bill Clinton famously said about abortion: it “should be legal, safe, and *rare*.” (the emphasis on “rare” was his) Perhaps he was recycling someone else’s line, but he made it famous, at least in the US. And that isn’t just some one-off statement. In effect, it was/is part of the Democratic party platform.
You are wrong in asserting that people who are pro-choice “cheer” for abortions. No, everybody things it would be better if the couple had not conceived in the first place.
Just because someone has a choice, it does not mean that all options are immune to criticism. Some choices are just bad.
Is it possible to disagree with the choices a woman makes without making disparaging sexual comments about her?
Douchebag Neil Schipper,
My children will wear Iron Maiden t-shirts and do well in school.
There is nothing wrong with heavy metal. There are many people who have noted the connection between musical education and mathematical ability. Heavy Metal (done right) has very talented musicians.
“I’ve said this before: You don’t see fundamentalists at MENSA meetings. Ever.”
Just Ben Stein, right?
BAllanJ (#127) quipped,
Except he’s not. Or, at least he wasn’t in 1999:
from this interview: http://www.avclub.com/content/node/23046
His reasoning is that Mensa is just a bunch of blow-hards, but then, why would he have any reference on his web-page?
I’ve been looking at the pictures of the children. If I may say so, Jana looks like she’ll smokin’ hot when she gets to college age. I sort of pity the boy that fulfils his wet dreams by setting up a date with her and then discovers what type of family he gets with the package.
Maybe because he wants people to think he’s smart enough to qualify, but that he doesn’t go in for that [liberal] elitist crap? I’m speculating, of course.
#122
It may certainly be the case that this particular family is happy and the children produced will be well-balanced and productive members of society. Which is great. However, the lifestyle is not sustainable. In order to support such a large number of children the family is dependent upon the support of the community. Without the support of the community these children would not have the “safety, nutrition, social engagement, and even education” that they seem to have because their parents would not be capable of supplying it on their own. This family is consuming an unfair share of the community resources and only time will tell if the children will be productive enough to repay it.
Despite what jsn believes, the world is dangerously overpopulated. Earth is not capable of sustaining the current population for the long-term, much less a growing population. We are consuming resources at a terrifying rate and the only outcome will be that we will reach a point where fuel and food resources fail and billions will suffer and starve.
The only responsible conclusion is that of zero population growth, as in one offspring for every person. That’s two children per couple. Deaths due to natural causes, disease, and accidents would then create a negative population growth and over time we can reduce the global population to something that is sustainable. Most of the world’s problems stem directly from overpopulation and the simplest solution is to stop breading like rabbits.
IMO, any couple that has more then two children is being selfish and short-sighted regardless of the quality of life that they are able to provide (or only provide because of the generosity of the community) for their children.
When people here suggest that multiple births should be outlawed by amending the US Constitution, and when maternity wards are picketed by pro-choice advocates, and when ob-gyns are murdered by abortion proponents and those murders are spoken of favourably by other advocates, then you can come back here and complain.
One can be in favour of choice but still think the choices made are bad ones, just as one can be in favour of free speech and yet not support every sentiment expressed.
I’d speculate that you’re right. It’s kinda funny seeing his then innocent lack of responsibility (hey, it’s just what someone else wrote!) and snottiness take flight like the beautiful phoenix that the BS of today is.
jsn, unless I’m far wrong on your pov, you’re the one being rather hypocritical. Let’s think of the Dixie Chicks. When they were slamming on Bush and criticising the war a few years ago a lot of ring-wing people got very upset with them and quit buying and playing their albums. The Dixie Chicks proceeded to whine and cry that they should be allowed to say whatever they like and people should still play their music. Pretty stupid, huh? As many conservatives pointed out, you have the right to say what you like, but you don’t have the right to force others to buy your album/read your book/have a conversation with you, etc.
You’re acting like the Dixie Chicks. With the exception of a few posters who cause my eyebrows to raise, most of us think that people should not be prevented from having as many children as they like, but that doesn’t mean that their choices in having/not having those kids are immune from criticism. The 1st amendment does not guarantee freedom from criticism, and neither does reproductive freedom.
i love this line. no wonder they’re apparently so surprised at all these births – they’ve never actually been having sex, just kneeling down praying all night.
#132-
hey! you stole my #68!
the point so obvious, they made it twice.
(but still too subtle for losers like jsn).
jsn is an idiot.
@#77 jsn —
Hardly. I can and often do defend a person’s right to make a particular choice while ridiculing the choice itself. Religious belief would be a prime example. Should someone have the right to belief in a backwards superstition? Absolutely. Will I ridicule that backwards superstition? Absolutely.
See smoking.
I will defend anyone’s right to chose to smoke (especially in their own homes). However, that won’t stop my from saying that anyone who choses to smoke is a blinkin idiot. Plenty of negatives with no known positive effects.
See, I can absolutely ridicule the choice to smoke. I just support a person’s right to be a blinkin idiot.
Etha, I doubt that jsn, not being a “libtard”, will be able to process such a nuanced argument. He’s a line segment stuck in a world full of triangles, rectangles, prisms and cubes.
Ditto @ Pablo. :-)
Likewise, I defend a person’s right to regularly drink alcohol to excess. At the same time, I contend that such behavior is self-destructive and irresponsible. I suppose jsn will see that as “hypocrisy”.
LoL
Alright! I’ve got Pablo and Kseniya behind me, now all I need is someone to defend my right to eat 1½ dozen spicy chicken wings and I can go about my regular Thursday evenings with complete impunity!
Notice that I said “especially in your own homes.” I would not trust you eating that many spicy chicken wings in public.
Ha! Actually, Pablo, Kseniya and others’ comments reminded me of something that may have interest to Kenny. Even though I am a smoker (quit twice before for long periods of time; let’s hope three’s a charm!), I fully support smoking bans in restaurants, bars, workplaces, and other public venues (I also try to avoid smoking near building entrances and generally try to stand downwind of others when outside).
It is most certainly not my right as a smoker to impose my second-hand smoke on unwilling participants, even though it would be a helluva lot more convenient for me to do so.
As for how this relates to Kenny; I wonder how he’d parse this in light of his delusion that ‘atheists never do anything for others.’
Actually, on second thought, I don’t care all that much what he thinks (or pretends to.)
I have to second Pablo on #143.
So, the woman likes to have babies. Yes, 18 is a lot but what is the big deal here? She loves sex and loves having babies. I don’t see what the problem is. This isn’t china we don’t have population problems in Arkansas.
The biggest problem with liberals is that they care too
much about other people when they should be just focusing on their own lives.
My wife and I don’t have any children. We would like to do that some day when we are ready. I don’t see a problem here.
Being hateful and calling them ignorant for their own choices and desires is a little shallow. No, I take that back, it is a lot shallow. I find it sad that human beings can be like this and so full of hate.
Would Kenny say the same thing if she were black?
No, you’re thinking of Christians.
How do you feel about homosexuals? Tolerant?
@ Brownian #142:
You’ve got my full support of your right to eat as many spicy chicken wings as you like, just so long as you don’t inflict the next day’s “ring of fire” upon others.
This part of the article is particularly irksome:
So…the pill causes miscarriages, but prayer/God (not sex, oh no, not at all!) causes pregnancy? And the media doesn’t even offer a vague hint of critique on this bizarre belief. Idiots, all of them.
Thanks apophenia, but I’ve got Thursday covered, and I’m on to Friday nights.
Who wants to defend my right to smoke a little endo while watching BSG?
@#146 Kenny —
But I thought that the problem with atheists is that “we all know that the only people that atheists help are themselves”…so with liberal atheists, do the problems cancel each other out?
Also, in the previous thread you participated in, you wrote:
Well, I guess you were only kind of lying…you did come back, just not on the original thread. As usual.
Hey Kenny, how do you feel about the ACLU’s defense of religious liberty? More specifically, about the hundreds of cases taken on behalf of those whose rights have been infringed upon? In light of these cases, how do you defend your assertion that the ACLU only helps liberals and atheists?
#151 Brownian –
Although I disagree with your smoking, sir, I would fight to the death to defend your right to watch BSG.
Incidentally, anyone who “loves sex,” and yet spends 2/3 of her adult life pregnant, is going about things the wrong way… lol
True, true, but environmental sustainability IS a problem here, though I wouldn’t expect you to know that. (But now, you do!)
Kenny, I agree that this is not really a big deal. It’s just one family. Still – be very thankful than not every couple does it.
Right, right, like the Religious Right doesn’t have its nose in everyone’s bedroom… LOL.
Seriously, though… Meh… That depends on how you look at things. This family doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Why have so many kids that you can never really get to know any of them, and vice-versa? What’s the advantage? What’s the payoff for the parents? Self-aggrandizement? Novelty? Notoriety? The joy of having lots and lots of kids around?
If it’s the latter, why haven’t they ever considered adoption? There are quite a few kids out there who could benefit from just the kind of good Christian charity the Duggars are apparently able to provide. It seems, then, that their agenda has some unusually selfish aspects.
The next kid should be named “Jerry”. As in: “Welcome to the Jerry Springer Show.”
Jerry, Jerry, Jerrrry!!!!!
“The biggest problem with liberals is that they care too
much about other people when they should be just focusing on their own lives.”
Oh, you mean like anti-gay conservatives?
>Well, I guess you were only kind of lying…you did come >back, just not on the original thread. As usual.
I did come back and I went into the thread. I was tired by then and I did not respond. Etha I hope you are not this pathetic in real life. I really hope not at least.
>Would Kenny say the same thing if she were black?
Yes, I would say the same exact thing. Black, white, asian, it doesn’t matter. Would you even ask me that question if you were not a liberal? Probably not.
Typical.
Etha I hope you are not this pathetic in real life.
I’ll take Etha’s kind of pathetic over Kenny’s any day. :)
Translation: Stop pointing out I’m a lying, hypocritical idiot! Waaahh!
What if it were a gay couple adopting 18 kids?
@#158 Kenny —
Not to tired to start in on a new thread, though.
Kenny, I hope you don’t use such poor ad hominems in real life. I really hope not at least.
I’m pathetically insecure about correct word choice, so I feel compelled to say that I intended to write “not too tired” in #163.
Translation: Stop pointing out I’m a lying, hypocritical idiot! Waaahh!
since Kenny has become a tired cliche, I must respond with what is rapidly becoming a tired cliche as only being appropriate.
Kenny, away with ye, thou creeping tardy-gaited plebian!
Thou fawning long-tongued carrion!
Thou pribbling clapper-clawed ratsbane!
>I’ve said this before: You don’t see fundamentalists at
>MENSA meetings. Ever.
I have seen quite a few people who are fundamentalists Christians with extremely high IQs. I used to be friends with one (Ben) and he could do some amazing things with numbers (oh and he was home schooled). Just because they don’t devote their lives to MENSA doesn’t mean anything.
I went to Public School and we didn’t have kids killing kids when I graduated in 1987. I was in the computer club back when we had Comodore 64’s and were moving on to the Amiga. ah, those were the days.
Public schools are almost worthless today here in California. Look at the recent stats for Los Angeles. Really pathetic today. I know I would not send my kids to public schools today. No way.
oh, and stop saying that people who are religious are stupid and ignorant. Just because you don’t believe in what they believe doesn’t mean they are stupid or ignorant.
The lack of tolerance in the blog is just really sad. You say you tolerate everything and yet you can’t tolerate people who are religious. It’s becoming a crusade with you people.
I admit that I grow tired of the intolerance in here. I just hope that you don’t act in real life like you do on here because that would be downright scary.
Why not? You’re religious, and you’re stupid and ignorant (as well as intolerant, a liar, etc., etc.) Maybe if you’d shut your trap and let your friend speak, we’d feel differently.
I admit that I grow tired of the intolerance in here.
listen carefully, Kenny:
I hate you.
get out.
will that do it? are you sufficiently weary now?
>Not to tired to start in on a new thread, though.
I move on after a while. This is a new day and a new thread. I would not be in here except when I read the posts on here it so sad that a woman can’t have her own kids without being called stupid and ignorant.
It’s like a huge bashing fest in here, only every day.
I don’t like to see a place where everyone is torn down for their own beliefs. I would only post in here once in a while without that.
This place does nothing to help humanity, only hurt it. It doesn’t lift anyone up to try to help anyone, it only tears them down. It is a place of hate, spite, and just pure arrogance. That is why I come here. I don’t come here to convert anyone, but I come here to defend people that have religion.
People in here lie about religion and put out misinformation and they don’t critise religion but bash it as much as they can.
I am off to work.
I just hope that you don’t act in real life like you do on here because that would be downright scary.
be afraid. be very afraid. Like that would be something new for you.
go cower in a fort made out of the bible you so idolize.
Thou mewling onion-eyed purified-cur!
People in here lie about religion and put out misinformation and they don’t critise religion but bash it as much as they can.
after all the weeks spent posting here, has even ONE person agreed with anything you have said?
ONE?
preaching is for church, boy. suggest you get on your soapbox there, or become a Jehova’s witness if you want to spend your life trying to convince everyone else they “just don’t know the Truth(tm)”.
you’ve gone beyond irritating, and I for one won’t miss you when you finally tire of banging your head against a wall of your own making.
GET LOST.
he could do some amazing things with numbers
he’s an idiot savant?
The funny part of a clown car is that the little clowns keep tumbling out
even funnier is when the same clown gets back in the car, and then steps out the other door again.
over and over.
hilarious.
not.
Kenny, I haven’t seen you take responsibility for your own intolerant comments.
Not that I expect you to, but I’m just saying your condemnation means nothing without such acknowledgement.
I don’t like to see a place where everyone is torn down for their own beliefs.
Liar. You do it consistently, but you attribute it to your sky fairy buddy.
I don’t like to see a place where everyone is torn down for their own beliefs.
Then don’t look. That way, everybody wins.
I keep thinking someone should do a photoshop diorama of Kenny tearing down the army of strawmen he has built during his visit here.
OTOH, I suppose one way to find a needle in a haystack is to make strawmen out of the whole pile.
no wonder he’s tired.
So, Kenny, you’re a Californian. Did you vote for Pete Knight’s Prop 22?
It doesn’t lift anyone up to try to help anyone, it only tears them down.
Actually, it’s helped me out a lot, thanks, particularly with getting over my religious upbringing.
It’s like a huge bashing fest in here, only every day.
I wonder why Kenny feels that way?
hmm.
That is why I come here. I don’t come here to convert anyone, but I come here to defend people that have religion.
then you are religion’s worst enemy. You’re also lying.
You come here to get whipped, and like the little masochist you are, you love it.
If you’d stop projecting your own perceived victimization, you might have noticed the MANY times we have pointed out to you the difference between someone like yourself and others who are religious, like say Ken Miller.
at least Miller has interesting arguments to put forward.
you’re just a loon.
GET LOST
Is it just my imagination, or does Kenny avoid answering substantive questions, in favor of whining about how mean everybody is? Is it just my imagination, or does he any and all comments of an even remotely concilliatory nature, in favor of whining about how mean everybody is?
Why do I care? I don’t know.
Ichthyic speaketh:
Now a word from the bard himself:
Ah, nobody does it quite like William.
[Hat-tip: Falstaff]
Ooops. Please make that, “…or does he ignore any and all…”
Since when does that make one smart?
A computer can do computations a lot faster than any person can (consider the impressive numerical integrations of a simple molecular orbital calculation that a PC can do in seconds that would take any person probably weeks if not years). Doesn’t mean that a computer is smart.
“Thou art but an unsavory rapscallion!” – P.D.Q. Bach, “The Seasonings”
I’m struck by the thread of several comments focusing on Michelle(?) Duggar’s vagina as an object of male sexual activity/desire. (You know, the ones about a hotdog and a hallway, etc.)
These comments demonstrate that sexism is alive and well in scientific/atheist circles, alas. I’m disappointed, but not surprised. Just once I’d like to be surprised.
These comments demonstrate that sexism is alive and well in scientific/atheist circles, alas.
(You know, the ones about a hotdog and a hallway, etc.)
you mean like the one posted by BRIDE OF SHREK?
I think you are mistaking misogyny for most of us being comfortable speaking of our own sexuality.
thanks for the concern, though.
Bardiac
Um ok, Jim-Bob probably has a really small penis and needs to make up for his inadequacy in the size department by making sure the whole world thinks he’s a rampaging sex-beast and as fertile as a bunny.
There you go I’ve made it easier for you , I’ve insulted both of their genitalia now- no sexism here.
You mean vaginas have nothing to do with sex, desire, or reproduction?
I can see that you were Xian school educated in the alternative theory of Stork Mediated child delivery. And won’t be having one kid much less 18 very soon.
PS Make sure your chimney isn’t blocked or the stork might just fly right on by.
make up for his inadequacy in the size department by making sure the whole world thinks he’s a rampaging sex-beast and as fertile as a bunny.
LOL
Is he short, too? Hard to tell from the photo (he’s sitting).
Make sure your chimney isn’t blocked
Oh, I rather think he made it quite clear his “chimney is blocked”.
I do hear that laxatives help, though.
Oh dear, now I’ve gone and stooped to using toilet humor.
our society is doomed.
doomed I tells ya!
53 minutes.
If the mother did NOTHING but sleep 8 hours and spend time with her children, she’d have 53 minutes per child, per day.
Hands up all of you who think that 53 minutes per day of individual attention is plenty for a child.
And that is assuming she spends 16 hours a day dedicated to nothing but interacting individually with her kids, which we know she doesn’t do.
Of course, she doesn’t actually do much other than homeschool it would seem. The girls do all the laundry, cooking and cleaning…and most of the childrearing, too.
Now, I agree – it’s their choice. I’m sure they’re not the only people in the world that have birthed large families. However, most of them don’t whore out themselves and their children in return for cases of tatertots and canned soup.
@#181 Kseniya —
I think this is a creobot/death cultist troll tactic — they ignore people’s substantive comments and repeat themselves obnoxiously on end in order to elicit rude comments, then whine about those comments while continuing to ignore all substantive responses. This (to them) fulfills their masochistic persecution complex and allows them to “defend” their beliefs (a defense necessary in order to reassure themselves of the verity of those beliefs) without actually having to think about anything.
Why the ad hominem attack, Raven? Why not demonstrate that the comments aren’t sexist? Convince me.
Ichthyic, Is there a way to be comfortable with your sexuality without objectifying women?
Bride of Shrek, Perhaps the point isn’t to put down someone’s genitalia, but to focus on the ethics and consequences of their decisions (as have many other commentors)?
Oooohkaaay.
so, this couple procreates excessively and no one is allowed to disagree or disparage them for it ?
Is it me or is anyone else here seeing the “quiver full of arrows” comment and thinking . . .”but wait… arrows are expendable ammunition” ?
Perhaps it wasn’t so difficult for Abraham to offer up his son for a human sacrifice.
Why not demonstrate that the comments aren’t sexist?
we tried.
you failed to notice.
more clearly:
the initial commentary on vagina size came from a woman.
now stop being an obtuse concern troll, or go away.
Or was it well done? Medium?
The concern trolling reminded me of another old one…
What is the difference between Mrs Duggar and a swimming pool? You can touch the sides of a swimming pool.
Boom boom.
Ichthyic, Are you trying to say that “Bride of Shrek” is necessarily a woman? (Because I know I can’t tell YOUR sex/gender on the internet.) Or that no woman could possibly make a sexist comment?
Heaven forbid anyone come here and question the dominant male hierarchy, eh? It’s great to gang together and question religion. It’s great to read about/study science. But the same impulse that leads us to push for better scientific theories, for good questions about how the world works, should also make us open to questions about sexism.
You can touch the sides of a swimming pool.
flashlight and lost key jokes to follow…
;)
Another “J” name… Jizzy. I think they’d be more than familiar with that one.
The commenter who mentioned that Mrs Duggar might like a bit of the ol’ rumpy pumpy may be correct but I’d suggest that it is probably a once a year thingy especially if they’ve only got the baby making as the object.
Are you trying to say that “Bride of Shrek” is necessarily a woman?
not trying old boy.
she is.
Heaven forbid anyone come here and question the dominant male hierarchy, eh?
heaven forbid a concern troll would ever say anything on topic.
here’s a bit of reverse concern trolling for YOU:
seriously, stop, you’re making an ass of yourself and it’s hard to watch.
Dominant male, I can understand. But hierarchy?
Or are you just applying different stratums of society to any old thing, eh?
He he, Shane you’re a very naughty boy.
Honestly as a woman, and woman who has had children, I find it perfectly normal and natural to want to laugh about the bizzare changes that can happen to a body after pushing a 9 pound hunk of screaming baby out of a ten centimetre hole. Fuck , its truly the most disgusting, messy, revolting process and the potential for humour in it is boundless. Its a fact of life her pelvic floor is going to be totally, absolutely shat after that many kids so, Bardiac, stop being so goddamn prudish and accept it as a reality.
I also take the piss out of those idiots that stretch their friggin ears with piercings by what amounts to blocks of 4×2, and no I don’t see any difference between an ear and a vagina. They’re both just plain old body parts and, whether some feminists like to admit it or not, there’s fuck all sacred or mystical about a vagina that puts joking or talking about them in the realm of “sexism”.
Etha Williams (#193) said,
As an aside, let me say that you have a great gift at succinctly describing the psychoses of the ‘other’ side. Kudos!
To the point, I suspect there’s a high level of OCD amongst them, considering how bad they say they feel vs. their desire to keep coming back (evidence: the number of characters in PZ’s dungeon that keep trying to break out)
Bardiac,
Ichthyic knows me, I am indeed a woman.
I’ve even got titties to prove it.
Thanks, Bride of Shrek, for actually addressing my concerns. I appreciate it. I understand your comment better now.
Hey there Kenny me-boy-O’. What ever happened to you coming back to the other thread where you promised to actually answer the few ever repeated questions that you keep dodging? Like that one about God’s existence being simple logic? Or my long ago question about what would ever falsify your own dogmatic unquestionable belief system?
Otherwise, you’re in for a bashing bucko. Though I doubt you’ll be back in this thread. And if you do, I’m sure you’ll conveniently skip right over this post.
We’re waiting. As usual.
Aw damn! Auto-fill-in contaminated my handle in that last post. Now I’ll have to burn it and get a new one…
Michael X
Kenny might be off having one of his Near Death Experiences ( you know the ones where he gets to meet the loved ones he didn’t know he had). If you want to conjure him back you might want to use a ouiji board.
Actually, I was horribly shocked to find that there was a Mensa creationist interest group.
no I don’t see any difference between an ear and a vagina.
LOL family guy time!
there was a great episode that satirized the whole “sex abstinence”, “chastity-ring” thing, with the kids deciding that having sex in the ear isn’t “going all the way”.
it was pretty damn funny.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prick_Up_Your_Ears_(Family_Guy)
I can’t tell you how sorry I feel for these children (especially the girls). It is revolting that these people are actually being encouraged by the media.
@#211 Lyle G —
Indeed.
Their mission is:
I can’t say they impressed me with their ingenious arguments, though. For example, I clicked through to an essay entitled “Does God Exist?” and found the same tired old crap that we get from the DI, BS, ICR, et al:
Apparently, the last time their website was updated was March 9, 2006, though, and they only list three members (though they occasionally refer to a nebulous “original fab five”), so…not exactly a thriving group.
@#211 Lyle G —
Indeed.
Their mission is:
I can’t say they impressed me with their ingenious arguments, though. For example, I clicked through to an essay entitled “Does God Exist?” and found the same tired old crap that we get from the DI, BS, ICR, et al:
Apparently, the last time their website was updated was March 9, 2006, though, and they only list three members (though they occasionally refer to a nebulous “original fab five”), so…not exactly a thriving group.
I’ve said many times that cognitive dissonance is not relegated to the intellectually stunted.
I’d hardly call Collins or Egnore stunted intellectually (or Dembski or Behe, for that matter), yet their arguments in support of their religious ideologies are completely inane.
However, it’s far more common for the stupid and ignorant to be creationists, than it is for creationists to be well educated and intelligent.
A well-known quote is tickling the back of my mind that is relevant, but it’s escaping me at the moment.
maybe it was one of these?
http://www.quoteworld.org/categories/stupidity/
ah, got it, and from John Stuart Mills, of course:
“Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”
— John Stuart Mill
@#215 Ichthyic —
True, though I think it’s more common for intelligent people to compartmentalize (eg, Ken Miller) than to deny/project/distort (eg, creationists).
I gotta say it:
I dig this guys’ house!
Look at that kitchen! Cripes, a soda fountain; crawl-through tunnels between the rooms, and a regulation pool table (not one of them phone bar-box numbers). And the icing on the cake?
Foosball.
Say what you will about squeezing out 18 tacos. Say what you will about crazy fundies with kiss-me-quick haircuts. It just doesn’t matter. It just doesn’t. Ya know why????
They gots Foosball.
A couple of points:
– I think these people are weird and selfish, but I wouldn’t make fun of them.
– If you look up the World Health Organization statistics, you’ll find that pregnancy is 11 times more likely to cause death (or is it 13 now? abortion keeps getting safer). Pregnancy is also 100 times more likely to require major abdominal surgery. Sorry I can’t cite an actual reference; I read the original 11:1 ratio in Scientific American (citing WHO study) years ago and picked up the 13:1 online somewhere as an update.
– the more older brothers a child has, the more likely he is to be gay. It seems that mom starts to become “immune” to testosterone and reduces the amount in the uterine environment.
Yee Gads, there’s gonna be a gay man with the name Jedidiah? Ten bucks he changes it before he hits 20.
#22: “…after 17 kids, as Mr Shrek puts it, it’d just be like throwing a hotdog up a corridor.”
MH That would be after 10 kids. After 17, it’d be like tossing a chipolata into the Chunnel.
I just spat out water through my nose.
Oh FSM do I love this blog!
1. I admit, the house is cool.
2. I admit, I couldn’t stop thinking about the mayor’s family in Horton Hears a Who.
3. I admit, the girl you think is cute, is cute – but she’s like twelve years old! Down, boy!
4. I admit that don’t quite get something here. They have this spectacular house, they provide music lessons (plus violin, and harps, for god’s sake) for every child, the dad was a candidate for the US Senate, they’re gonna keep having kids until The Good Lord freakin’ makes them stop – and they solicit food donations? Is that really true? I’m all in favor of nice homes and music lessons, but there’s a weird sort of shamelessness there. I hope that analysis isn’t too “hateful” for Kennyboy.
5. I admit, FWIW, they’ve made my day more interesting. God bless their hearts.
What I think I find most reprehensible about the Duggars is how they parade their children around the media as public curiosities. They claim to genuinely believe that their god wants them to have all these children and love them, but they must realize how the public sees their kids. How can they expose their children to all this public attention (and often ridicule) without feeling a twinge of conscience about it?
My guess is that their religious conviction is just a combination of irrational guilt over the miscarriage and the typical hunger to have one’s 15 minutes of fame extended as long as possible….
“They’re both just plain old body parts and, whether some feminists like to admit it or not, there’s fuck all sacred or mystical about a vagina that puts joking or talking about them in the realm of “sexism”.”
Molly for BoS!
Sometimes people who behave in utterly ridiculous ways deserve to be made fun of, and I would say that these people fit the bill.
Ichthyic,
You need to relax. You are getting too stressed out. Half a dozen posts were directed from you too me and most of them didn’t even make sense.
Every answer that you get is a strawman argument because you can’t produce intellectual answers that make sense. Yeah, I know everyone else is stupid but you. That makes me know the problem is ummm YOU.
Half a dozen posts were directed from you too me and most of them didn’t even make sense.
you said you were getting tired of the intolerance, so I thought a bit more might get you to check yourself out of here.
you mean you’re not tired of intolerance?
make up your mind.
seriously, I have no tolerance for you at all, if that helps you decide if you are tired of all the intolerance.
get off yer fuckin’ soapbox, and get lost.
what’s it gonna take, moron?
nobody wants you here. that you are a running gag has even worn thin. You have nothing of interest to offer to anyone who posts here.
just.
go.
>Kenny, I haven’t seen you take responsibility for your own
>intolerant comments.
What intolerant comments? I don’t hate anyone nor am a being intolerant to anyone. People have said I am stupid and I am ignorant. However that is due to the problem that they can not communicate properly.
People have
saidrecognized you are stupid and you are ignorant.not the same thing.
we’re not calling you names, Kenny (well, not JUST), we’re reacting to your posts as if they are descriptive of who you are.
…and stupid and ignorant has become descriptive of what you post. simple as that.
deal with it.
Kenny
Its one of those basic human instincts to get that creeping feeling that people are actually laughing at you, not with you. You know, I think at some point in all of our lives we have made a mistaken gaffe at work, a silly statement at a dinner party and all goes quiet, that ever so vaguely horrible feeling that you may have said something really stupid to the boss’ wife last night after a few too many. Are you truly the only human in the planet that does not have that radar? Do you not get it? Oh, of course, your ilk need caps lock on so ( apologies to the normal folk out there), ITS OBVIOUS WE’RE TAKING THE PISS OUT OF YOU!!!
You’re like a worm on hook to us, you’re not that interesting in terms of bait itself but we may be able to use you to flush out the bigger fishies. But, every worm has its day and I’m afraid you’re now getting all shrivelled and stinky on the hook. Time to drop off and become compost my lad. We’ve got biger fish to fry than your lame arse.
>Is it just my imagination, or does Kenny avoid answering >substantive questions.
I only ignore questions like the ACLU because they have only been answered four times already.
See people can’t read and then try to say that you haven’t answered their questions.
>This (to them) fulfills their masochistic persecution
>complex and allows them to “defend” their beliefs (a
>defense necessary in order to reassure themselves of the
>verity of those beliefs) without actually having to think
>about anything.
You say the above and then you go on to say this.
(I will just the posts speak for themselves here).
>Hardly. I can and often do defend a person’s right to make
>a particular choice while ridiculing the choice itself.
>Religious belief would be a prime example. Should someone
>have the right to belief in a backwards superstition?
>Absolutely. Will I ridicule that backwards superstition?
>Absolutely.
Why would you even bother ridiculing someone when your beliefs are not even proven? Isn’t that being mighty relgious of you?
Why would you even bother ridiculing someone when your beliefs are not even proven?
Oh, I dunno, maybe because they say things like this ^ ?
Have you stopped beating your wife, Kenny?
>Its one of those basic human instincts to get that
>creeping feeling that people are actually laughing at you,
>not with you.
That doesn’t bother me at all. What bothers me is someone who is passing off ignorance as fact and belittling people with their own ignorance.
That doesn’t bother me at all.
…but you said you were tired of all the intolerance.
so the intolerance doesn’t bother you then?
more lies.
What bothers me is someone who is passing off ignorance as fact and belittling people with their own ignorance.
then why do you insist on doing so, Mr. NDE?
seriously, it’s time for you to go, Kenny.
>Oh, I dunno, maybe because they say things like this ^ ?
>Have you stopped beating your wife, Kenny?
Well, there is a lot of truth to it don’t you think?
My wife doesn’t get beaten. I get beaten at Team Fortress 2.
>Is it possible to disagree with the choices a woman makes
>without making disparaging sexual comments about her?
Not on this forum. They insult people and say they are stupid for believing in what they do and then they call that reason.
When you answer their questions they can’t accept your answers and say you are lying and that you don’t make sense and you are stupid and produce strawman arguments.
They call this reason and logic.
I think this pretty much sums up everything.
>That doesn’t bother me at all.
>…but you said you were tired of all the intolerance.
>so the intolerance doesn’t bother you then?
>more lies.
Common sense and reading for the loss.
I said making fun of me personally doesn’t bother me. Intolerance with religion and other beliefs does bother me.
Got it simpleton?
want me to type it again this time in capital letter so your simple mind can understand it?
“want me to type it again this time in capital letter so your simple mind can understand it?
Well, we are used to only being able to read posts from you creobot idiots in upper case so give it a try.
..and I reel the little dried wormy in a little more
>and stupid and ignorant has become descriptive of what you
>post. simple as that.
When I said that I wasn’t talking about myself. I was talking about how people feel about religion and how they feel about this woman.
Have you been drinking? Because the stuff you say doesn’t even make sense. You are not even reading my posts.
I don’t care what you think of me personally.
Kenny,
you still have not replied to any of the comments that have been made to the study on NDEs of people who had suffered cardiac arrest that you had linked to, and requested us to comment upon.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/05/an_hour_of_radio_inanity.php#commentsArea
it starts at comment 327 onwards.
You behave like a seagull, come and flyover lay your crap everywhere and don’t bother to check back.
I suggest that as long as Kenny has not read and replied in detail to these comments, he just be ignored.
Kenny, you are the one complaining about the fact that people are not looking sufficiently into the details on these supposedly scientific studies of NDES, but when they do, you just don’t even bother reading and replying.
This is the second time I alert you on this and you ignore my comment.
This is extremely rude behaviour.
>Well, we are used to only being able to read posts from
>you creobot idiots in upper case so give it a try.
Funny thing is that I don’t remember typing to you. Funny thing is that you have to defend someone else.
Creobots? Seriously? Lame…
Kenny
I do believe at post # 238 you have actually resorted to quotemining yourself. That is a whole new level of stupidity we haven’t seen from one of you xian fools before. You win the prize lad. You are the Big Kahuna Idiot Godbot.
Actually Kenny your whole post #234 was in response to me. The insults are flying so thick and fast you can’t even hope to keep track now can you?
We’re circling the prey now Pharyngulites, who wants to go in for the final kill?
>Kenny, you are the one complaining about the fact that
>people are not looking sufficiently into the details on
>these supposedly scientific studies of NDES, but when they
>do, you just don’t even bother reading and replying.
Well I move on. I come in from the homepage and only deal with the latest articles. The author posts so many blog entries that I move on. I don’t stay at one spot for an entire week. I move on. That is the medium that we are posting on. There are new things every day and this blog moves quick and some of the content is off the home page.
I am one person who has to answer thousands of questions. It is not easy.
Specially when those questions are “Why are you such a total wanker?”.
Kenny
Keep in mind I’m on a different time zone to you. Its only 8 at night here, my kids are in bed, the hubby is out at a “do” and I’m up to date on all my study. Add to that I’m on my third chardopnnay and I’ll warn you, I can keep this shit up for hours if it’s what it takes to get you to finally fuck off.
Call it taking one for the team but really I’m in a sarcastic mood, you’re firmly in my “fucking idiot” radar right now and I’ll gladly take you on for a few hours. Don’t even give a shit if that sounds churlish, I just really, really want to get you into your lathered up, raving stage where PZ finally loses patience with you and fucks you off to the Dungeon.
A C-Section though? That’s now how god made us to do it!
I only ignore questions like the ACLU because they have only been answered four times already.
You didn’t answer my question. did you vote for Prop 22?
MA Jeff
I’ll bet you anything he did. That sort of little worm pretends to be all loving and espousing of xian values in public but given a secret ballot they’ll show their true colours. Bastards have a real problem with two people who love each other getting married.
Bastards have a real problem with two people who love each other getting married.
Not even that. They actively took steps to make life worse and less secure for thousands of families. Just being good Christians.
But make fun of some people with fucked up beliefs? That’s beyond the pale.
Kenny,
but you come back with the same arguments all the time, for example that we are closed minded and refuse to seriously consider the links that you provided on NDEs. And how long do you think it takes to seriously look at these ? 5 minutes ? Obviously, you need to leave people some time but by then, you have already moved on to lay your guano somewhere else.
I spent an entire day perusing those sites, and what scientists think about this, yes it raised my curiosity, and I learned things. It didn’t convince me that it was reason enough to conclude that these were evidence of a supernatural phenomena, but I admit that further scientific investigation is required to better understand what is really going on.
The difference between you and me, is that you immediately jump to a conlusion that you have already taken a priori, ie, this is proof of after life, whereas I say, hmm, this is an interesting phenomena, what can we learn from it ?
Look Kenny, your conviction that there is afterlife is motivated by your hope. There’s nothing wrong with that. But have the courage to admit it, and don’t try to force science to find ways to confirm it, when it cannot do so, for now. Trying to force science into commiting a lie is at the opposite of what Christ wants us to do.
Etha Williams (#224):
Call it a simplistic view, but every time they have another child they get more attention and presents. If they want to interpret this behavioural reinforcement as God’s will, well… actually, that’s pretty disturbing.
When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail, and since all I have is first year psych, everything looks like operant conditioning. Perhaps we should shift them to a variable reward schedule where we only praise each new child with 50% chance? I would be frightened yet intellectually curious to see the results.
Kenny:
You’re implying that I can’t read? O_o
As opposed to, say, pointing out that I may have missed your repeated answers, despite my consciencious attempts to fine them?
Ok. I’ll bite. Though I admit I could be wrong, I don’t think you’ve answered that question. It’s been asked multiple times, and as far as I can see, you always ignore the question, abandon the thread, subsequently reappear on another thread, and never get around to addressing the ACLU question.
And, as far as I can see, you’ve avoided it yet again on this thread. (Are you aware that if you’d simply answered any one of my questions when it was asked, the reiterations of the questions could have been avoided, as could all posts pertaining to the question, including this one?)
Please then, if you will, do me the favor of directing me to at least one of the four answers you have so graciously provided (I’d love to see all four, but I don’t wish to be a burden) so that we can clear up this misunderstanding. Thank you.
Please make that: “…attempts to find them…”
Indeed; I’ll grant you that. And yet, you still manage to find time to respond to every insult. Perhaps a more focused and effecient use of time here, one that would enable you to respond to substantive questions and ignore insults, would make for a more fulfilling experience.)
I am becoming bored with the Kenny skit. With both sides of it actually, to the point where I am not reading it anymore. That, of course, is the way to deal with posts about which one does not care.
Kenny, as nearly non-insultingly as I can, I do have a real question for you. Why are you here? Simple question. Did you lose a bet, is this part of some missionary work? I have difficulty believing you come here for the science. There are many other blogs that are pure science. This is an atheist hotbed science blog, and one that is as likely to have societal posts as science. To be frank, I do not come here for the science, although I do find it of interest. I come here to read barbed posts on major issues of the world and to be around fellow atheists, I knew what this blog was like from friends and sought it out on purpose. Even if I had just stumbled across it, five minutes perusal would have shown me what it was like – a hot kitchen full of real debate. Some posts and posters I like better than others, I use my personal filters to decide what to read. Many things, many posts I agree with, some I do not agree with. So what?
Kenny, why are you here? Again, not trying to be insulting, but you seem to know less about science than I do and I am a liberal arts scoundrel. You also do not appear open to learning or honest debate – you post talking points and expect them to pass for thought. Your research appears shoddy. For example, I spent quite a bit of time on the NDE sites to which you linked, and went on from there. To me, you seem to have gone into the subject looking for support for god and the afterlife and cherry picked the results to support your belief. Ok, lots of people do that, even some atheists, still does not make it good research. My reading did not indicate to me any proof of god or afterlife, or of returning from the dead. Lack of heartbeat and brainwave activity is only death if they stay gone, if they restart, you are not dead. If they restart, they are near death, thus the ND part of NDE.
I also have to say, while you may think you have, you have not repeat not truly addressed the ACLU issue. You made a false statement and refuse to address it, refused to recant (small smile). I cannot find your correction if you made it.
Bottom line, I find you dishonest and thus I no longer take anything you say with any seriousness, you are filtered. I find that kind of sad because opposing views are needed in debate.
Regards, Jeffrey
Once again, I find myself in agreement with Etha.
I mentioned above, my wife lived near a family with 17 kids. They supported them on their own (including having two houses for them) and didn’t live extravagently on handouts from others. And I guarantee you, you didn’t read about them in papers or see them on the national news.
It’s pretty clear that old Jim-Bob is loving all this attention he is getting. Just as Madonna needs to keep putting out albums to keep her name in the papers, so the Duggers need to keep popping out babies.
As long as the children are not being raised on taxpayer money, it is nobody’s business how many children the Duggars have. I do hope the kid subsidy (child tax credit) is removed in the whole country ASAP. No subsidies for anything.
What I don’t get about the house is why, if it’s so big, do the kids all have to stay in the same room. There’s one bedroom for the boys, one for the girls. It wouldn’t have been difficult or add to the floor space to have 3-4 rooms for each at least, grouped by age. They certainly spend enough time together all day that I wouldn’t think they need to share bedrooms to that extent to learn how to get along. It’s the one part of the house that has a real boarding school/impersonal feel to it.
Carlie (#259) asks,
I think it’s because they see privacy as part of a child’s selfishness and lack of control.
Observe:
from: http://www.quiverfull.com/articles.php/id13/
**Shudder**
Well, the ultimate goal is to build God’s army, right?
(I really wish I had something funny to say about the concept…)
@#229 Kenny —
You’ve said it was your opinion — but it was a falsifiable (and falsified) statement. Your “answers” aren’t answers at all; they’re evasions.
My (lack of) beliefs don’t need to be proven anymore than your lack of belief in leprauchans, the FSM, the IPU, Russel’s teapot, etc need to be proven. As for why I should ridicule your beliefs —
“Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.” (Thomas Jefferson)
Just a brief thank you to Bride of Shrek re: the sexism comment of Bardiac. Some people seem to think that “sexism” is “any remark which acknowledges sex” — and that’s NOT NOT NOT what sexism is. Sexism is denigrating a person’s intrinsic value only because of their sex.
E.g. A sexist remark in this case would have been, “Christ, with such a loose vag, Mrs. Duggar can’t really be much use to Mr. Duggar as a sex partner or as a wife.” Now that’s sexist! But remarking on what multiple pregnancies do to the human body? That’s an observation of reality.
I pray that the somewhat prissy Ms. Bardiac never visits my extended English family, whose personal remarks would probably leave her on the fainting couch. For example:
I’m sitting at the kitchen table with my cousin (in England).
Husband: Since she ‘ad them twins it’s been loike stickin’ it in a bucket!
Wife: (passing by with a baby on her left hip) Only because yer built loike *this* (waves pinky in the air)
(All of three of us laugh hysterically.)
Imagine a town of 20,000 Duggars. (OK, most of them give up somewhere between their seventh and ninth kid.) The girls aren’t allowed higher education and are forbidden to drive – they’re married off before they’re twenty. And if you aren’t a member of the particular sect, you’re not allowed to live in the town (with the exception of a few live-in servants for the wealthier families).
No, it’s not some FDLS enclave in the high desert somewhere – it’s less than 50 miles from Times Square and just a couple of miles from my house.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryas_Joel
I’m just getting caught up with all the recent Kenny drama, but I get the impression that he said the ACLU only defends “liberals and atheists”, i.e. is an anti-religious organization. If that’s the case, he needs say nothing further until he realizes that this is, quite simply, false, and that, for saying it, he is either ignorant or a liar.
If it was a lie, he should go DIAF ASAP, because we’re sick to death of hearing the same winger bullshit day after day from countless humanoid fertilizer distribution systems.
If it was said in ignorance, then he should STFU and go educate himself regarding objective, independently-verifiable facts, such as: the true nature of the ACLU and what cases it pursues, evidence for scientific findings and utter lack of same for “competing” “theories” such as creationism, and the fact that NDEs prove only that the brain is capable of producing some bizarre subjective experiences under extreme conditions.
Until he realizes this and, if merely ignorant, takes the time to learn the facts, it’s just trolling and troll-baiting – entertainment.
I also continue to be amused by his protestations that he loves science when he seems too uncritical a thinker to appreciate basic empiricism, much less the rest of science.
I have a prediction.
Re #267, Kseniya, I think your prediction has a probability level much the same as the sun rising tomorrow in the east.
Love you posts, btw.
Ciao, Jeffrey
Thanks, Jeffrey. I sure did appreciate your #256, by the way, which represented many of my calmer thoughts. :-) I often find myself caught between wanting to be nice to everyone, and feeling that I’ve had it up to here [eyebrows] with the same old BS time and time again. If Kenny pulls out the “someday people like you will have Christians put to death” thing one more time, I may have to beseech Ceiling Cat to forthwith treat him with distain everlasting.
What I always thought was amusing was when the baby was born last August the old kids made a sign and put it out on the highway for the locals to see, announcing it was a girl. Like the neighbours care by now.
I actually predicted last August she would be up the duff again by mid this year. But it wasn’t exactly a hard call.
Up the duff? You mean another twinkie in the oven, eh, BoS?
Yeah, I think it’s an Australian saying but possibly British, not sure. Interchangeable with “up the spout”. Truly have no real idea what either of them really means though, I mean what the hell is a “duff”.
IIRC, my ex-BF’s Scottish papa would have used “duff” as a euphemism for a person’s backside. Here in the USA, “muff” is a euphemism for vulva, so perhaps there’s been some memetic drift up there in Oz so that “duff” now refers to female genitalia…
I’d say “Up the spout” is a little more obvious.
Sorry, no cites. ;-)
Duff
Duff
Duff
Duff
Duff
Hope this helps.
shit… >3 links.
wait for it…
[*checks clock*]
[*glances meaningfully at Jeffrey*]
Origins of “up the duff.”
“Up the spout” has at least two distinct idiomatic meanings.
All I can say is, LOL, his name is Jim-Bob, what a bunch of idiots, this is exactly why the rest of the world thinks the bible belt is insane…
-Deus X Machina
>I’m just getting caught up with all the recent Kenny
>drama, but I get the impression that he said the ACLU only
>defends “liberals and atheists”, i.e. is an anti-religious
>organization. If that’s the case, he needs say nothing
>further until he realizes that this is, quite simply,
>false, and that, for saying it, he is either ignorant or a
>liar.
Again seriously? What is wrong with you people?
Have you not learned to read?
I said that it originally was not like that (yes, I have seen the wikipedia article myself). However, from MY OPINION this has changed. Out of all of the cases that I have seen from them recently most of them are anti-religion.
I am going to have to flood this forum with this post because people are simply not understanding or reading what I type. Whenever I see a lot of the recent cases from them they are involved in getting Christianity out of the public life in schools or other places.
Separation of Church verses State IN MY OPINION is grossly overstated. GET IT, MY OPINION.
Morning Kseniya, regarding your #275, I must confess that my faith failed me and I went to bed early. (grin) However, per my comment on your prediction, the sun is indeed rising.
Thank you for you kind words on my earlier post. I actually do have a large reservoir of patience, right up until the moment I go “medieval” on some fool.
As a public service to Kenny, I found him on another article and pointed out there are posts on previous articles that need his attention. Being a nice person, I will continue to do this where I find him. Patience can be a wonderful weapon at times.
Ciao, Jeffrey
Ah, Kenny managed to write #278 while I was writing #279. As expected, he dodged all the questions/comments. Regarding the ongoing ACLU issue, he still managed to avoid saying he was wrong by stating he was offering an opinion. Kenny, fine, it was an opinion, it was wrong, say so.
Nasty little troll he is, patience at an end. To semi-quote Rick from Casablanca, I suppose I would despise him if I thought about him much.
Ciao, and I love you Kenny, I can forgive the sinner if not the sin – Jeffrey
Out of all of the cases that I have seen from them recently most of them are anti-religion.
In other words, you admit you don’t know shit and that YOUR OPINION is based on ignorance, right?
And, we can safely say that, based on almost all of your actions, YOUR OPINIONS are pretty much all flowing from ignorance and can safely be discarded.
Hey Kenny,
Did telling your teachers that something was your OPINION get you extra points when you were wrong?
Some things are not a matter of opinion.
You were ignorant of the facts. You were wrong.
Admit it or shut up.
Kenny:
Kenny, the one who cannot read is YOU.
Opinions are not facts.
You made an erroneous statement, have been corrected, yet cannot adjust your thinking accordingly – and worse, cannot even admit it, and instead resort to attacking those patient enough to bring these oversights to your attention.
This behavior of yours has become a theme.
You lack the two ingredients essential to the makeup of a man of integrity: courage and honesty. And yet you have the gall to criticize other people here – without any evidence upon which to base your criticism, of course – for selfishness, lack of morals, lack of compassion, lack of literacy, lack of education, and lack of sense.
Oh yes, and for propagation of hatred. All this from you, who unhesitatingly propagate negative sterotypes of atheists and would happily keep them in boxes, you who would deny homosexuals their civil rights, all while whining about how everybody here wants to kill people like you – again, with no evidence to suggest this might be even remotely true.
Attend to your own house, you gabbling limpet. You have quite a bit of cleaning to do.
Re: ‘Up the Duff’
As Etha linked… Duff means pudding… (anyone heard of Plum Duff)? A pudding was normally a boiled ‘cake’ and generally had a ball-like appearance (wrap the dough in a cloth, tie tightly, suspend cloth in a boiling pot…). I Scotland when I was a lad we had ‘clootie dumpling'( mmmm…. dumpling!
As would be obvious – and in common with most ‘euphymisms’ -the phrase is replaced by one suggestive of similar physical characteristics: a pregnant belly looks somewhat round and ‘puddingish’ therefore ‘in the pudding club’ and ‘up the duff’
Tony
(and now I’m hungry!)
RE: Kenny
methinks kenny has been trying the ‘rope & bladder’ to try and achieve his own personal NDE… and is suffering some neural damage as a result.
we should be kind to such damaged goods.
That doesn’t mean we need to encourage him
Tony
Duff means pudding
so Bill Cosby is a duffer?
Kenny:
I am going to have to flood this forum with this post
Oh Kenny, make me happy! Please, please do.
I think at least 20, maybe 30 repeats of the same post might do.
make sure you do it on every thread for a couple of days, too.
@#280 Kenny —
If you have actually looked at the link that we have repeatedly given you, then you must have seen a lot of recent cases where they are involved in protecting the rights of Christians in public life. For example, from 2007 alone:
The ACLU of Florida (2007) argued in favor of the right of Christians to protest against a gay pride event held in the City of St. Petersburg. The City had proposed limiting opposition speech, including speech motivated by religious beliefs, to restricted “free speech zones.” After receiving the ACLU’s letter, the City revised its proposed ordinance.
http://www.aclufl.org/pdfs/StPeteLetter.pdf
http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=57665
The ACLU of Oregon (2007) defended the right of students at a private religious school not to be pressured to violate their Sabbath day by playing in a state basketball tournament. The Oregon School Activities Association scheduled state tournament games on Saturdays, the recognized Sabbath of students and faculty of the Portland Adventist Academy. The ACLU argued that the school’s team, having successfully made it to the tournament, should not be required to violate their religious beliefs in order to participate.
http://www.aclu-or.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Lit_tp_nak
http://www.aclu-or.org/site/DocServer/Lit_OSAA_mtgmry_3_07.pdf?docID=1861
The ACLU of West Virginia (2007) sued on behalf of a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon) university student who won a prestigious scholarship to West Virginia University. Although the state scholarship board provided leaves of absence for military, medical, and family reasons, it denied the ACLU’s client a leave of absence to serve on a 2-year mission for his church. The ACLU filed a religious freedom claim in federal court.
http://www.aclu-wv.org/Newsroom/PressReleases/07_19_07.html
The ACLU of Eastern Missouri (2007) represents Shirley L. Phelps-Roper, a member of the Westboro Baptist Church, whose religious beliefs lead her to condemn homosexuality as a sin and insist that God is punishing the United States. The protests in which she has been involved have been confrontational and have involved funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq. While the ACLU does not endorse her message, it does believe that she has both religious and free-speech rights to express her viewpoint criticizing homosexuality.
http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/protest/26265prs20060721.html
The ACLU of Wisconsin (2007) filed a friend-of-the-court brief arguing that individual pharmacists should be able to refuse to fill prescriptions that violate their religious scruples, provided that patients can obtain prescriptions from willing providers in a safe and timely manner.
http://www.aclu-wi.org/wisconsin/rights_of_women/ 20070201_Pharm_Refusal_amicus_complete.pdf
The ACLU of New Jersey (2007) defended the right of an elementary school student who was prohibited from singing “Awesome God” in a voluntary, after-school talent show for which students selected their own material. The ACLU submitted a friend-of-the-Court brief. After a favorable settlement was reached for the student, the federal lawsuit was dismissed.
http://www.aclu.org/religion/schools/25799prs20060605.html
The ACLU and the ACLU of Pennsylvania (2007) prevailed in their case on behalf of an Egyptian Coptic Christian who had been detained and who claimed he had been tortured by the Egyptian government because he refused to convert to Islam. After permitting Sameh Khouzam to stay in the United States for nine years based on evidence that he would probably be tortured if he returned to Egypt, the U.S. government changed its position in 2007 and sought to deport Mr. Khouzam based on diplomatic assurances from the Egyptian government that Mr. Khouzam would not be tortured upon return. As a result of the ACLU’s advocacy, a federal court granted Mr. Khouzam an indefinite stay of deportation to Egypt.
http://www.aclupa.org/legal/legaldocket/egyptiantorture.htm
The ACLU of North Carolina (2007) wrote a letter to the Dismas Charities Community Correction Center on behalf of a former resident who was not allowed to consume wine during communion services while staying at the Center. After the ACLU advised the Center of its obligations under the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000, the Center revised its policy to comply with federal law.
The ACLU of North Carolina (2007) challenged a North Carolina Department of Corrections policy making all religious services in prison English-only, thereby denying access to many inmates. The North Carolina Division of Prisons agreed to review the policy and the need for religious services in languages other than English in the state correctional system.
The ACLU of Delaware (2007) prevailed in a lawsuit brought on behalf of Christians, pagans, and Wiccans, alleging that a department store violated a Delaware public accommodations law by canceling community courses after individuals complained about the religious beliefs that were being taught in the centers.
(This case is also listed in Part II.)
The ACLU of North Carolina (2007) assisted with the naturalization of a Jehovah’s Witness who had been told he could not obtain United States citizenship because of his conscientious refusal to swear an oath that he would be willing to bear arms on behalf of the country.
The ACLU of Rhode Island (2007) prevailed in its arguments on behalf of a Christian inmate, Wesley Spratt, who had been preaching in prison for over seven years before administrators told him to stop based on vague and unsubstantiated security concerns. After the ACLU prevailed in the First Circuit, the parties reached a settlement under which Mr. Spratt is free to preach again.
http://www.projo.com/news/content/ Preacher_07-31-07_T76IHBQ.34294dd.html
Bride of Shrek @221: “Yee Gads, there’s gonna be a gay man with the name Jedidiah? Ten bucks he changes it before he hits 20.”
I have a friend named Jedidiah. He’s probably gay (at least bisexual), and is an atheist to boot.
This comment, “We just let the Lord decide” [how many children], reminded me of the similar quote made by Bobbi McCaughey (mother of septuplets conceived with the aid of fertility drugs), when they declined selective reduction to reduce the number of infants, saying that they would “put it in God’s hands”.
Umm, in the case of the McCaughey’s, didn’t her god decide she shouldn’t have any more children? It was science that produced her seven embryos…