The other day, I mentioned that the Bemidji State University television station was broadcasting anti-scientific nonsense, a series of programs by a creationist loon that were just plain stupid. It may not be a fully official response, but one of their student broadcasters has issued a painfully bad defense: he says they were airing them to counter the claim that their station had a liberal bias. He actually says this:
There are some people who do believe god exists, and they should be able to have a show that they can watch to confirm that belief.
The video is at that link; somebody needs to take that snotty kid by the ear and tell him that snide, smug, and self-serving is no way to go through life, son. The argument is ridiculous. Their job should be to inform and enlighten and entertain, not to pander to every stupid point of view someone might have. There are people who believe blacks are inferior, but that doesn’t mean the station is therefore obligated to track down racist programs to affirm their bigotry.
It’s also horribly condescending that they believe religious people must simply eat up any nonsensical crap from the trough of any moron who declares himself a fellow traveler in faith. If they want to support a conservative, religious audience, how about trying to get some intelligent programming from that side?*
*Assuming, of course, that such a thing exists.
Aren’t there already numerous religion-infused programs, and indeed, entire channels?
Yeah, there are so few programs on religion. We desperately need our universities to step up to the plate and devote some time to religious broadcasting.
Rather pathetic to broadcast such nonsense “to counter the claim that their station had a liberal bias.”
Extremely condescending. Being stuck on stupid isn’t conservative; it’s just stupid.
Especially Norse stuff. It’d be good to see how the others are getting on. ^_^
Yes, it’s just so stressful to be inundated with atheist missionaries ringing my doorbell and getting me out of the shower in the morning, and all that special atheist programming on Sundays, and the atheist temples and their parishoners taking my parking spaces. Not to mention the numerous television shows where whenever anything good happens, people express their thanks that there is no god, and everyone always says a little speech giving thanks to a random universe before each meal.
(Someone also ought to tell these people that most religions don’t have any particular brief against science and accept that evolution is fact. After all, god is large and contains multitudes….)
Is it just me, or does anyone else automatically read “liberal bias” as “not wildly distorted”?
Wow, I’m just shocked that someone would be such an ass when addressing so many people. He just sounds completely unprofessional and rude. (Not to mention his points are pathetic…)
This attitude will always be with us in a democracy, the idea that all ideas are equal and that the majority is what decides what is “most true.” Only elitists think that “their truth” counts for more, so many believe. What bolsters those notions in some of the media is the fact that such pandering works, therefore they have incentive to “believe it.”
I would say that if he argued that religious people should have shows which respect their beliefs, without any notion of confirming said belief, that would be all right. But even that sort of claim doesn’t explain why atheists or Satanists shouldn’t demand similar respect. I wouldn’t bother him about that claim, though, since ideally respect would be shown to all (since they need to keep their viewers, in which case they’d better not just respect the majority) persons, without necessarily finding any reason to respect their claims to having “truth”.
Some people believe that we shouldn’t eat cows or pigs. Should these people have shows that confirm this belief? I’d like to see them try to use that logic in rural Minnesota. That would be a good way to get their entire university shut down.
Glen Davidson
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
That guy is a terrible presenter… “uuhhhh”
If the aforementioned show actually confirms anyone’s religious belief, then those people are intellectually deficient morons. If I were religious, I’d be embarrassed to have this show “confirming” my beliefs.
Also, since when did “belief exists” = “deserves popular confirmation”?
B State University +
“There are some people who do believe god exists, and they should be able to have a show that they can watch to” …
educate them on such aspects as :
* the historical facts about the founding fathers religiosity through their own declarations or writings (not heresay) and the reason why they held so dearly to the complete separation of church and state
* the historical facts about the rise of religious fundamentalism in the USA since the 1920s and its consequences
just to name a few…
There is no such thing as intelligent conservative programming as modern conservative discourse is incompatible with reality. For instance, intelligent conservative discussion about taxes is impossible because conservatives believe reducing taxes increases government revenue even though research evidence supports the gut-feeling conclusion that tax cuts reduce revenue. Repeat the same active denial of reality for every line of conservative policy from evolution to war and you will have captured the essence of modern conservatism perfectly. It’s impossible to have intelligent discussion within or against a movement that defines itself by believing up is down.
Off topic–but back in November you asked if anyone was reading your blog on a Kindle. I just got one, and subscribed to your blog–but the Kindle version doesn’t have the option to comment. It *is* a lot better formatted for the Kindle than the version that comes up in the basic web browser, though. The pictures come up in greyscale (the Friday Cephalopod, for instance, was okay, if a bit “newspaperish”). The videos don’t display at all; there isn’t even a frame for them.
FWIW.
There are some people who do believe god exists, and they should be able to have a show that they can watch to confirm that belief.
If the internet has taught me anything, is that if you devote a weekly half-hour program to everything someone believes in, you’ll need to be living on Venus, or somewhere else with a much longer day than we’ve got.
Christianos ad leones!
OT, but I like the new photo.
Fear not for the state of student broadcasting! Starting this fall at American University Television: SkepTalk, the companion TV program of Atheists, Skeptics, and Rationalists at American University.
Just watched the “official response”, and I have to say, what a wanker. So his reason for airing the program was that they’d been accused of being to liberal? Does that mean we will now be treated to some racist, sexist, homophobic programming?
http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/onionmagazine_1020.article.jpg
I believe the proper term is ‘Iactate Christiani ad leonum’ (send the Christians to the lions) or ‘Ite, Christiani, ad leonum’ (go to the lions, Christians!) – else I’ll cut your balls off. (/Monty Python reference)
But someone really needs to raise some complaints about this.
I don’t care much about the sane Christians – the non-fundies – but the fundamentalists are, bluntly, getting to be almost as bad as Scientology. They’re already cultic; can’t we investigate their abuse yet?
Correction of Latin: It is ‘Iacite Christianos ad leonum’.
Isn’t Bemidji the place where they have that huge (life size) statue of Paul Bunyan with Babe, the Great Blue Ox? Since they are not statues of Christ, I assume they are part of the war on Xtianity.
On the other hand, if there really is a radio show that confirms the existance of (any) god, it should be a classic by now!
Sorry PZ, but I’ll believe in discerning, conscientious religiots when I find some that don’t fall all over themselves to lap up the ‘spiritual’ drool from some clown who spent too much time kissing statuettes, bowing to meteorites, ‘reading’ golden tablets, chanting tonelessly, focusing on third eyes, triple burners, fourth asscheeks, or other imaginary body parts, talking to corpses, coyotes or cacti, or eating too many mushrooms on equinoxes and solstices when I meet ’em.
But I’m not holding my breath.
Poor boy.
He tried *so* hard to capture a Jon Stewart vibe.
And failed miserably.
OT, but I like the new photo.
Yeah, where are you? Setting off on a sloop with a scurvy band of piratey scalliwags?
That was stupid. How does watching a video of creo lies confirm that god exists? If they actually believed in god, they wouldn’t have to watch a video, would they? Did the 12 apostles have videos?
Most Xian denominations are OK with evolution, astronomy, geology, paleontology, archaeology, history, and so on. They don’t have to go through life like a pithed frog with a blindfold on.
There are a lot of shows, dramas, and programs which reflect the belief that God exists. But if you’re going after confirmation, then it looks like you’re stuck with pseudoscience.
“There are some people who do believe god exists, and they should be able to have their own kinds of science to confirm that belief.”
And so they do … all to themselves.
Hmmm… the respondent seems to think that liberal views and nonsense are on opposite ends of the spectrum, such that one can serve as a balance to the other.
I wonder if that’s the message he intended to convey…
Maybe this was mentioned in a previous thread, but here’s the bio of the station manager/program director:
So is any of this surprising? The guy is basically saying he wants to “get into a broadcast ministry”. It’s obvious he’s making that dream come true while still in school!
@29 I don’t believe that is up to date. The program schedule is from 2003. However, that doesn’t mean the current program director is any less deluded.
In the whole of the University, I mean the whole, big place, that is the BEST presenter they could come up with?
Wow, this is so much worse than the original issue.
Yes, the last thing KBSU wants is to expose people to opinions they disagree with; that wouldn’t be balanced.
Now he’s insulting the point of view he’s supposed to be defending.
His producers didn’t proof this script, did they? Usually “Stop watching our show!” isn’t good business.
Okay, you just lost the argument.
@#32 Epistaxis —
I hadn’t watched the response, but those excerpts are horrifyingly stupid. Actually, I think he kind of defeated his own point:
Yes, I suppose so, but…
Channel buttons that will, in fact, readily take the viewer to channels devoted entirely to “confirming” their theistic belief…
I think this point is most salient
I’d love to hear the response to it. Actually, I’m sure it will just be an argument from popularity. So no, it’s NOT that “some people believe in God,” it is that MOST people believe in God, and therefore they pander to them.
@#34 Pablo —
The logical question then would be, “So at the time when the belief that blacks are inferior was a majority view, were TV stations obligated to provide reinforcement and “confirmation” of that?”
The argument from majority is just about the stupidest argument in the book IMO, since majority opinion shifts so much over the course of time. Progress is not made by pandering to and confirming the majority view; it is made by examining it critically and, when appropriate, expressing dissent.
well!!! i never!!!!. can’t wait for the program to air that delves with the adage: god never was, never will be and always remains the same: non-existant.
Reminds me of an Adult Swim bumper that ran some time after they premiered The Boondocks. First they showed a forum comment from someone who made some complaint about that show being too liberal, or that they needed to be more balanced or some such nonsense. Then they showed someone’s response that said that conservatives held the White House, a majority in both houses of Congress, a majority in the Supreme Court, virtual hegemony of political views on the radio, etc., and concluded with (paraphrased from memory) “Please, let us have a half-hour cartoon at least.”
Get over it Mr. PZ
Well said, Etha
Oh, come on.
It made perfect sense for the guy to point the possibility of switching channels to liberals.
Do you really think IDiots would be capable of grasping such a complicated concept?
Brownian #25: Looks as if PZ is standing on the infamous wobbly bridge, looking up the Thames towards the Millennium Wheel. You can see the erotic gherkin in the background, quite clearly in the big version. Any pirates about would probably not have been the sloop-sailing version ;)
Etha Williams @ #35:
Actually, some people STILL hold that idiotic view (many of whom also believe in god). Does that mean that, based on the idiot’s original argument, TV stations are STILL obligated to cater to patently false beliefs? Should TV stations be obligated to treat every absurd conspiracy theory as absolute truth because some people believe it? Should they give Holocaust denial equal treatment with actual historical fact?
This moron is basically rejecting the very idea of honesty or any standard of accuracy. And not even trying to hide it. He’s saying “we broadcast lies because people want to be lied to.” And the fact that these lies are already available elsewhere doesn’t even enter his head. The facts are irrelevant, quality of content is irrelevant, reality just doesn’t have a place in the discussion.
I also wonder if he realizes that he’s saying broadcasting badly-delivered lies is the only way to avoid charges of liberal bias, a-la Stephen Colbert, “the facts have a liberal bias”.
Mark Twain:
The absolutely most charitable thought I can muster is that he meant to say “affirm” instead of “confirm.”
If you watched KBSU regularly, which I’m sure you don’t and have no reason to, you’d know that the presenter, Rob, is actually a very intelligent and witty man.
Knowing this as I do, it takes me about three or four seconds to realize that his “defense” of their programming was in fact a jab at the show itself. Colleges don’t have a lot of money to buy rights to good programming. It was a little filler program that sucked, and he’s taking an opportunity to take the piss out of it once again.
Were you all so quick to look for incompetence and conservative agendas poisoning the media that you completely missed the sarcasm?
“if they wanna watch a show that makes no sense to anybody except themselves, they should have that right as Americans”
That’s damn funny if you ask me.
Zach…
No, it is isn’t funny and I’ll tell you why.
Because it leads to the same thing:
Idiocy being pushed on the public.
Hairless Monkey, it is funny.
Are political comics that satirize George W. Bush not funny because they lead to “idiocy being pushed on the public?” Nope. Still funny.
Also, unless something inundates the media it’s not being pushed on the public. I don’t think a couple hour block of some poor programming constitutes a subversive political agenda.
It was a crappy show; the guy made fun of it. That’s it.
Zach
I agree, I think in his own way, the kid was trying to make amends. The problem is that there is a time for jokes and wit and there is a time for simply saying something was inappropriate. Airing a show that mocks an entire belief system on public airwaves, should be dealt with seriously.
Also know that some of us do go to BSU and DO watch KBSU.
Are political comics that satirize George W. Bush not funny because they lead to “idiocy being pushed on the public?”
no, the reason they aren’t funny is because W is a satire of himself already.
anything comics do with it is just repetition.
W himself pushed all the idiocy on the public the public at large can stand.
It simply isn’t really funny any more.
Zach, I don’t catch the satire in this. Yes, he’s doing his best to keep the atmosphere light hearted and pokes fun a little. I’ll give him credit for at least acknowledging that the program is a little ridiculous, but behind all of this he makes two very clear arguments (on top of the one mentioned by PZ) that are not meant to be satirical.
1. We did this to balance other liberal programming.
2. If you don’t like it don’t watch it.
This response is inadequate:
#1: you can’t balance political liberalism with religious conservatism. It just doesn’t work that way. The Iraq war and the origin of life are on two very different wavelengths.
#2: This response is patronizing and doesn’t address the complaint that this program is inappropriate for an secular institution of higher education.