We shouldn’t leave the Moslems hanging with all the blame for bad behavior — so here’s some more deplorable activities that have show up in my mailbox in the last few hours.
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The typographer who designed the popular font Gill Sans was a devout Catholic…who had sex with his sisters, his daughters, and his dog. Who could have seen that coming?
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More Christmas displays are in the news: in this case, the Christians are vandalizing a Wiccan symbol. Or who knows…maybe it’s some vicious atheist who is running over the pentacle and leaving the nativity scene alone.
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Running over Wiccan symbols is much milder than what they are doing in Nigeria: evangelical Christians there are organizing witch hunts. Literally. And the ‘witches’ are often children, who may be murdered for their imaginary crime.
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Look! Australian fundies blame their drought on sinners! I hate those sweeping generalizations. I say it’s all Wilkins’ fault.
Just what I needed to get into the Christmas spirit :D
Even if I’m not Christian (brr, the mere thought makes me feel all icky), I really ought to go out and burn some Harry Potter books or something, you know, to celebrate my cultural heritage. Maybe I could even find a witch to burn! But then I’d have to get a duck first…
Here’s hoping that the Nigerians manage to implicate ALL the children. The only way to be sure…
Man, if only TV nuts were right and there was a war on Christmas and Christianity, this stuff just should not fall under religious tolerance.
The witch hunt one is just outrageous, you would think that in any place on earth, if there were like two literate people in the nation, there would be no way that there could be any such thing.
Here’s one,
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iWCJyvT0BKYliSAruZ1wUdCJlp8QD8TFI1L82
… because nothing says Christmas spirit quite like beating up a few Jews.
Just one question. With respect to the dog, did he use the missionary position, or did he do it doggy style?
Sorry.
Holy crap, I hadn’t heard that about Gill. Gill Sans is one of my favourite fonts to use — now I’m conflicted as to whether I should.
Anyone feel like rewriting House Resolution 847 from an atheist perspective?
Recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.
Whereas Christmas, a holiday of great significance to Americans and many other cultures and nationalities, is celebrated annually by Christians throughout the United States and the world;
Whereas there are approximately 225,000,000 Christians in the United States, making Christianity the religion of over three-fourths of the American population;
Whereas there are approximately 2,000,000,000 Christians throughout the world, making Christianity the largest religion in the world and the religion of about one-third of the world population;
Whereas Christians identify themselves as those who believe in the salvation from sin offered to them through the sacrifice of their savior, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and who, out of gratitude for the gift of salvation, commit themselves to living their lives in accordance with the teachings of the Holy Bible;
Whereas Christians and Christianity have contributed greatly to the development of western civilization;
Whereas the United States, being founded as a constitutional republic in the traditions of western civilization, finds much in its history that points observers back to its roots in Christianity;
Whereas on December 25 of each calendar year, American Christians observe Christmas, the holiday celebrating the birth of their savior, Jesus Christ;
Whereas for Christians, Christmas is celebrated as a recognition of God’s redemption, mercy, and Grace; and
Whereas many Christians and non-Christians throughout the United States and the rest of the world, celebrate Christmas as a time to serve others: Now, therefore be it
Resolved, That the House of Representatives–
(1) recognizes the Christian faith as one of the great religions of the world;
(2) expresses continued support for Christians in the United States and worldwide;
(3) acknowledges the international religious and historical importance of Christmas and the Christian faith;
(4) acknowledges and supports the role played by Christians and Christianity in the founding of the United States and in the formation of the western civilization;
(5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, both in the United States and worldwide; and
(6) expresses its deepest respect to American Christians and Christians throughout the world.
Tulse – well it would mean supporting a pervert. The font isn’t that good anyway.
Frankly, the font is ugly…
For the meaning that “modern” had in 1931 (when the font was designed).
Frankly, the font is ugly…
For the meaning that “modern” had in 1931 (when the font was designed).
Re: the Nigerians
Don’t forget, conservative factions in the Anglicans and other churches are looking to Africa for more conservative people to run their churches.
It’s only a matter of time before cases like this turn up in the US.
Already happening in the UK:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4607435.stm
It’s a matter of taste, I suppose — like a lot of folks, I consider it a classic workhorse, up there with Futura.
That’s a question I’ve been grappling with a lot. Is it ok to use the works of someone whose actions you find reprehensible? I’m leaning towards yes, as long as it doesn’t fund the undertaking of the actions you found objectionable.
(And those without the font on their machine won’t know this, but our cheeky host set the relevant portion of the posting in Gill Sans.)
I have in fact had a fellow name of Wilkins over for dinner here in Sydney, so it can’t be him.
It just can’t be.
Or could it?
I have to wonder how many christians will dismiss the murders done in Nigeria as not being done by true christians.
That said, I have to say that Sam and Elizabeth Ikpe-Itauma are extremely brave and heroes in the truest sense of the word.(What ever religious beliefs they may have.) I am afraid I lack the strength of character to stand up against madness in order to show simple human decency. I am also wondering if they are given any financial aid for their work.
That’s a question I’ve been grappling with a lot. Is it ok to use the works of someone whose actions you find reprehensible? I’m leaning towards yes, as long as it doesn’t fund the undertaking of the actions you found objectionable.
Posted by: Bartlett
This question comes up a lot. The best textbook for learning about EKGs “Rapid Interpretation of ECGs” was written by a Dr. Dale Dubin, who pled guilty to various sex and drug charges involving a teen-aged girl and an addiction to cocaine. His book is still in print and as popular with medical and nursing students as ever. Then there’s Carleton Gudjusek, who won the Nobel Prize in Medicine for his work on Kuru and other prion-borne diseases. He pled guilty to molesting a teen-age boy in his care. His work is essential in the study of brain diseases. I think it would be immoral to discount these works despite the criminal acts of the authors.
Mihi ignosce. Cum homine de cane debeo congredi.
That’s a question I’ve been grappling with a lot. Is it ok to use the works of someone whose actions you find reprehensible? I’m leaning towards yes, as long as it doesn’t fund the undertaking of the actions you found objectionable.
I think you could argue that if the misdeeds were performed in the pursuit of their creation then you might choose not to use it. Benefiting from the misfortune of others and all that. One could think of it in the same way that we do not allow police to use evidence seized illegally as to discourage them from breaking the law. Of course, given the circumstances one would probably not use this as a strict rule.
But I see no argument whatsoever that would caution against using something invented or created by someone that did something you find morally reprehensible. I mean, that would cover a huge number of people that lived in past times who created a lot of stuff we regularly use now.
CalGeorge @7, H.R.847 is one of the most offensive (and unconstitutional) bills I’ve ever read and what really upset me is that pretty much everyone voted in favor of it, including my (supposedly) liberal congresswoman. I let her know how I felt. I suggest others tell their reps how they feel about this also. Something like this shouldn’t go without being challenged.
HR 874 is not only unconstitutional, it’s laughably unconstitutional. The only thing, I think, that makes it “legal” is that it’s a resolution, so, it’s not a “law” respecting the establishment of religion. But I’m not a lawyer.
PZ — Please, please, please could your next report of Republican minister’s sex scandals be in Gil Sans to honor Mr. Gil? Also, you might be interested in buying the Gil Sans Family Pack. [cough]
I will say the story on the witches is absolutely sickening, totally and completely depraved. How anyone in this time can believe the shit I just read and harm children with it is simply monstrous.
And in this case it IS religion that is the cause.
Why a duck?
Isn’t it interesting… when anyone of “faith” finds a fault that interferes in their order of their world, they blame another? How pathetic.
To Lin Dai Yu,
At least in this case the criminals are being charged. There are many countries, as I’m sure you are aware, where the adjudicating magistrate, upon hearing of the girl’s alleged witchcraft, would order her summary execution.
We are now literally one step away, in the “enlightened west” (please shut up about Muslim countries’s advances in the sciences, it was hundreds of years ago, and they haven’t budged since), from burning witches.
And yes, by the way, I did say that Muslim countries are stagnant cesspools of barbarism. While “most people are not fanatics” (say it in a whining, self-rightous tone), they happily elect and/or tolerate fanatics running their country. If the “majority”, or even the “overwhelming majority” of citizens in Muslim countries were, in fact, moderately inclined, they sure as hell could do a better job of implementing their “overwhelming” ideas upon their leaders.
Islam as it is practiced in western democracies is undoubtedly a peace-loving religion. Islam as it is practiced in Islamic theocracies is, on the other hand, a destructive and hateful pile of shit.
Kind of like Christianity was in the Middle-Ages, and kind of like Judaism in the last thousand years BCE.
The inventor of the transistor turned out to be a racist.
So should we now throw away or destroy everything we have that contains transistors?
The United States has a history that includes slavery and genocide. So clearly that shouldn’t continue to exist, and any good it has also accomplished in the world should likewise be demolished, undone, or at least re-attributed to other nations… right? That’s the logic here, isn’t it?
Lol, Australia: it’s not Wilkins, it’s Gaia.
So the morality of the author is irrelevent as long as the process used to complete the work itself is untainted? Did Hitlers scientists ever make any discoveries through their testing on Jews I wonder? That’s not a rhetorical question. Hypothetically, if they did somehow make some important discovery would it be at all sensible to discard their work after the fact, when the results could be used in some small way to help compensate for the horrors inflicted in testing? For argument’s sake, say they inadvertantly discovered a cure for some rare but deadly disease.
Whoops, forgot to say that’s in response to coathangrrr post #19
IIRC, the Nazi scientists’ work on hypothermia is unparalleled. No other scientists, rightly, have done similar experiments. But that data is forever tainted, and will likely never be cited.
“Why a duck?”
Well if you have a giant set of scales handy you can use it and a duck to test if someone is a witch. Have you never seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail? if your cultural education is so lacking that you have not, or your memory too thin to recognise it then may I suggest you rectify the situation at your earliest opportunity?
Well, tough, I use Gill Sans a my standard font – it is VERY clear to read.
Gill was laso a famous sculptor, but it was always thought that he was “a bit wierd”.
None really knew HOW weird, until much later of course.
Celebrate the art, decry the artist’s behaviour – a bit like Wagner, I suppose, or Jesualdo.
From the Fiona MacCarthy biog of Eric Gill (via Wikipedia):
“After the initial shock, […] as Gill’s history of adulteries, incest, and experimental connection with his dog became public knowledge in the late 1980s, the consequent reassessment of his life and art left his artistic reputation strengthened. Gill emerged as one of the twentieth century’s strangest and most original controversialists, a sometimes infuriating, always arresting spokesman for man’s continuing need of God in an increasingly materialistic civilization, and for intellectual vigour in an age of encroaching triviality.”
#26: “The inventor of the transistor turned out to be a racist.”
I don’t think Lilienberg was a racist. Jews were usually the target of racism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Edgar_Lilienfeld
#26: “The inventor of the transistor turned out to be a racist.”
I don’t think Lilienberg was a racist. Jews were usually the target of racism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Edgar_Lilienfeld
By having sex with his sister, his children and his dog?
I don’t see the connection. Probably just me, as usual.
I just finished watching “Long Way Down” a few days ago and was deeply touched by the visits to the (correct me if I’m wrong, but seemingly secular) charitable organizations and schools that Ewan and Charley made during their adventure through Africa.
Apparently, far more are needed.
Desperately.
For the first time ever, a news article has literally turned my stomach and made me retch.
Witches burn because they are made of wood, which also burns. Wood floats on water, and so does a duck. If a woman weighs the same as a duck — use your largest scales — then she is made of wood, and therefore a witch.
Gill Sans is used extensively on the Underground, and JCB use a version of the font (though theirs is different in some trivial respect).
The article of the witch hunts in africa made me sick to my stomach. These reprehensible Christians as far I am concerned should either be drawn and quartered or disembowled.What is happening should surprise no one though as the christian church has great history of either burning or hanging witches, there was also other means of making sure the witch did not survive. These slime bags hurting children and bilking the parents of what little resources they have is really sinking to a new low. I am going to have that article handy the next time a f”n bible thumper comes to the door.
Way to go, David. Just keep feeding the Christian&trade persecution complex.
Behaving badly? Try Youth With a Mission. Yes, the same bunch that got shot up in Colorado a few days ago. How about making a convicted sex offender a “youth missionary” for starters? Or brainwashing?
The media is hardly saying anything about what that bunch was up to. Gee, maybe this has a little something to do with why Murray showed up with a gun, ya think?
First ever comment and it’s not going to be substantive I’m afraid.
To Peter Ashby and AJS (comments 31 and 37); I may be being over generous with wrpd but I suspect that the “Why a duck” question is a reference to the work of another great comic outfit of bygone days… The Marx Brothers. I fear that futher “cultural education” could be required here. ;-)
Yes, “Why a duck?” is a classic Marx Brothers gag, a pun on “viaduct”.
Seems like the whole Gill moral question is put to rest, and indeed dwarfed, when you consider the US space program’s reliance on the creators of the Nazi rockets that rained down on the UK.
Also, Volkswagens. I rest my case.
Muslims, Christians…ehh!…what’s the difference?
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/284824
There is an ongoing debate on the appropriate use (or not) of one of the most prominent examples of Nazi anatomical science, Eduard Pernkopf’s anatomical atlas. A PubMed search brings up a couple of dozen articles, of which the following viewpoints are reasonably representative.
Hildebrandt S. How the Pernkopf controversy facilitated a historical and ethical analysis of the anatomical sciences in Austria and Germany: a recommendation for the continued use of the Pernkopf atlas. Clin Anat. 2006 Mar;19(2):91-100.
Aumüller G, Grundmann K. Anatomy during the Third Reich–the Institute of Anatomy at the University of Marburg, as an example. Ann Anat. 2002 May;184(3):295-303.
Riggs G. What should we do about Eduard Pernkopf’s atlas? Acad Med. 1998 Apr;73(4):380-6.
Hmmm… I thought I had Gill Sans on my system. I don’t. I have “Gill Sans MT” whatever that means.
But an exploitative situation has now grown into something much more sinister as preachers are turning their attentions to children – naming them as witches. In a maddened state of terror, parents and whole villages turn on the child…
Some parents scrape together sums needed to pay for a deliverance – sometimes as much as three or four months’ salary for the average working man – although the pastor will explain that the witch might return and a second deliverance will be needed. Even if the parent wants to keep the child, their neighbours may attack it in the street.
Sounds like a pretty sweet racket. I’m just guessing here, but presumably families who regularly give a lot of money to the church very rarely have one of their own children condemned as a witch?
I know that Africans killing and eating missionaries is almost entirely a myth. Pity – it would probably have been a pretty good idea.
AJS: The London Underground doesn’t use Gill Sans – it had an in-house typographer called Edward Johnston in the first decades of the 20th century, who created the font family they still use (which is now usually called Johnston).
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/corporate/media/fonts/
I read once that the results were pitiful. All that came out was an advice to soldiers to immediately change wet socks — what an utterly surprising discovery…
I have absolutely no idea what you might mean. I find the font ugly, so I wouldn’t have used it anyway and don’t need to care about moral issues. That’s it.
I read once that the results were pitiful. All that came out was an advice to soldiers to immediately change wet socks — what an utterly surprising discovery…
I have absolutely no idea what you might mean. I find the font ugly, so I wouldn’t have used it anyway and don’t need to care about moral issues. That’s it.
David, I think Dan was just being droll. :-)
This is a mundane observation, but I find Gill Sans to be so bland as to be neither attractive nor unattractive. On my computer, it’s so similar to Ariel as to be virtually indistinguishable, at least in 10 pt. normal.
Gack! Arial is actually a Microsoft knockoff of the classic Helvetica, and while both of these are modernist sans serif fonts like Gill Sans, they are pretty different visually.
Okay, then. I will compare large blocks of text in Gill Sans and Ariel, and reassess my… assessment. ;-)
Yeah. Gill Sans and Arial are nothing alike other than being Sans Serif.
I find Gill to be less utilitarian than Helvetica. But still useful.
Arial is crappy.
I read it the other way: the less money parents spend on raising a “witch” child, the more money they have to give to these utterly repellent thugs. Plus, of course, having these subhuman scum “save” them from the witches just makes them more grateful yet scared and dependent on the scumsucking sh*tbag.
(“Scammer” or “con-artist” just seems far too benign to use on those people. In fact there really aren’t any words that can express my revulsion at these depraved sacks of ambulatory santorum.)
Remember that these… things charge a lot of money to the parents to rid them of witches, and according to the article, one refused to do anything when the parents couldn’t pony up enough dough.
It’s disgusting. The missionaries swooped in, bearing fear and ignorance as well as food and medicine, probably. And most people tend to look favorably on missionaries because of the latter aspect: “Oh, at least they’re tangibly easing their suffering. They’re good people.”
But when the missionaries leave and take their food and medicine with them, what’s left? The fear and ignorance. Effort that could have been spent educating them about malaria was replaced with nonsense about demons and witches, and now this is the result. Congratulations, idiot christers.
I came across some research a couple of years back in which they tested various fonts for readability (including whether people thought they were easy to read and nice to read etc and, crucially, whether they really were easy to read – ie the test subjects made fewer reading errors). Verdana won overall.
I’ve never had any Gill Sans on my computer. There’s only ever been one typeface with which I was was so taken on seeing it in a printed (sci-fi) book that I made the effort to find out what it was – and then, later (when personal computers had been invented), went to some lengths to acquire it as a computer font. That was Souvenir Gothic (or Soutane, in its computer rip-off name). However, that’s a serif one.
Ah. More research is indicated, then. As I said, virutally indistinguishable. On-screen. In MS-Word. On my laptop. Perhaps I have a sort of “font-alias” thing happening.
* * *
Ok, now I’ve viewed the same document on a 15-inch tube plugged into the same laptop. The two fonts, though similar, are obviously different. They look different on the laptop, too. Strange! I must have done something wrong the first time around.
I did not know this about Eric Gill. The sister thing is disturbing, probably rather mentally deranged, but that at least would be between equals. Adultery is between him and his wife. But his daughters? He should have been tortured for that. And not like waterboarding torture — think Inquisition.
SEF: Unfortunately, Verdana has two big problems with it: 1. it belongs from Microsoft, and therefore its availability is (in theory) dependent on them. (In practice it’s not, because of the licensing on the font before they withdrew the free web fonts package, but still.) 2. It’s everywhere. Ubiquity breeds contempt.
I actually like Verdana, though I’m even more partial to the TrueType version of Geneva. Absolutely nobody uses it anymore though, not even Apple.
A year or so ago I got into an argument with the ladies in a coffee group I occasionally attend. That morning I had read some disturbing stories on Africans brutally killing women for being witches. They were accused of causing Aids and other local problems by casting the “Evil Eye.” Of course, I said, there is no such thing as witches casting spells or the Evil Eye. That kind of ignorance for the cause of disease in the 21st century was depressing; we need more and better education in more places.
To my surprise, the witch-killing Africans were immediately defended by the very liberal, tolerant people sipping their expensive lattes. The “Evil Eye” really does exist, and witches can cast spells. People in other cultures have their own Ways of Knowing, and are still close enough to their spiritual roots to be able to do all sorts of things. Violence was wrong, of course, and okay those women should not have been burned and dismembered — but by ignorantly dismissing ancient wisdom and applying Western science on non-western people I was guilty of a kind of violence, too. One woman said I was the worst bigot she had ever met.
If it had been Christians burning witches, this pagan-friendly crowd would have condemned them. But in the case I was discussing, it was Africans. So their beliefs needed to be respected.
I am still pissed off.
Two words for these ladies: Noble Savage.
Sastra, that’s… astonishing.
These weekend-wiccan wannabees need to do some reality-checking. Yes, I believe women like them want to be witches, they want to be able to use their “powers” to make things happen and to increase the measure of control they have over their own lives, lives which have left them spiritually unsatisfied. I don’t fault them for seeking but… OMFG. There is no Samantha Stevens, ladies; no Willow Rosenberg, no Halliwell sisters. The Craft was just a movie. Get over it.
As for you being a bigot, I’d laugh if the accusation wasn’t so contemptibly and hypocritically wrong.
There was a young student at Trinity
Who ruined his sister’s virginity.
He fucked his mother
And buggered his brother
And took a first in Divinity.
Nigeria seems to be coming apart at the seams these days. The child-witch reverse-Salem caper does look a bit like belief in woo! having a real selective effect, mind you. Only those immune to the christo-virus won’t eat their own young.
Oh, and old Eric used to get in on with chaps, too (but strictly non-p., IIRC. That would’ve been sinful).
Sorry, PZ, but you’re going to have to work harder than mis-quoting Kottke quoting the BBC, re Eric Gill. I know you want to juxtapose reprehensible acts with outward piety, there are plenty to choose from since Gill lived and died. Why Gill, and why now?
There are lots of conversions to and from various religions, I wouldn’t automatically call anyone “devout” as a result. Perhaps Gill did it for marriage, or to earm more commissions from the Church, or out of an enthusiasm that faded. If you’ve got evidence that Gill was professing an orthodox belief at the same time as he was doing these things, great! Then you don’t need Kottke’s second hand gossip. Link straight to it. Otherwise you’ve just got another egotistical and conflicted artist. I’m really struggling to understand how you thought this tidbit was blogworthy.
He was both a devout Catholic and a self-admitted pervert. Are you arguing with the facts of the matter? How?
I’ll also note that I wrote a whole two sentences on this peculiar personality, while you’ve written a whole two paragraphs carping about it. I can’t say that I’m struggling to understand how you found this tidbit so commentworthy, though, since I really don’t care.
He wasn’t a true artist… they would never fuck a dog.
I’m an artist. I would know. I’m deeply offended Mr. Kannon.
The charity supporting Sam Ikpe-Itauma in taking in these poor children is called Stepping Stones Nigeria – http://steppingstonesnigeria.org
I thought some of you might perhaps be interested in supporting them.
After reading about the Nigerian christist whackjobs and immediately donating to these folks, I clicked through to this . Reads like something out of Samuel Beckett:
Those links are horrifying! But then again, “No true Scotsman…”
You knew I was going away for two days, didn’t you?
It’s not my fault. Australians just have a naturally dry sense of humour.
Despite recent rains and Danny Nhilia’s prayers, my state of NSW remains 69% in drought.
I would also add that recent rains are mostly the work of vigourous thunderstorm activity, which has killed a man, damaged homes and businesses with 7cm (~2.5 inch) hail and caused flooding of city streets.
He works in mysterious ways…