Here, everyone, go have fun with this brand new creationist blog that has a grand total of one post so far … but that post is ripe with hilarious promise. This one is an atheist science denialist (someone was wondering if there were any atheist ID proponents a while back, so here’s one). He’s got the air of an affronted conspiracy theorist — scientists are all shallow-minded Darwinists — and he also dislikes the taint of religion behind all the arguments of the Intelligent Design creationists.
Nobody is going to like him. Boo hoo.
Now why would someone who doesn’t believe in god(s) like the idea of ID? He’s got a different kind of evidence.
I’m talking about the evidence for extraterrestrial design in our planet. Like the pyramids, Stonehenge, Nazca lines. We have been visited, and designed by aliens. Of course people like Myers suppress this evidence in favor of their own puny experiments in order to get funding for their “research” that never finds anything new…other than evidence against evolution, which they conceal very quickly.
Bwahahahahaha! He’s a Dänikenite! This could be fun.
PZ, I’m SURPRISED at you! You obviously haven’t read Slave Species of God (I’ll spare you the read, I’ve summarized it HERE) From what I hear, this idea is really taking off in some areas (the book is purported to be a best seller in South Africa, and making headway in Europe)
From what I see, this will be VERY amusing. And since he called you out in the first post, it’ll be doubly amusing when all of your minions start commenting on his nonsense.
The Raelians are atheistic creationists as well. Check them out! They’re fun. They also hold their annual conventions in the nude.
oh for fuck’s sake, i thought we were done debunking old Erich fifteen years ago… don’t tell me his little fans are still going? they must be like in their fifties by now.
i mean, damn.
Lepht
When a no-name drops a big-name on the first post it can only mean he is craving attention and desires a rocket to stardom. I suspect if one was to leave him alone then the rocket will either explode or fizzle on the launch pad.
In all fairness, evolution denier David Berlinski claims to be a non-believer.
well, i extended the Evidence Challenge to the kook. here’s waiting for fuck all, as ever.
L
Give em due credit: they spelled your name correctly.
PZ, you just made his blog a guaranteed success! :)
PZ, you just made his blog a guaranteed success! :)
Hmm. Anyone else wondering if this is meant as a more credible version of FSM?
Is this the same, uh, “theory” put forward in Everything You Know is Wrong? It claims that there’s a tenth planet in a very eccentric orbit, but some-odd thousands of years ago, it approached closely to earth and the intelligent natives came down and interbred with sasquatch to produce a slave-race (humans) to work in their mines. Or something like that. It’s been a while, and I have no intention of rereading it.
I’ve often wondered why these idiots do not argue that aliens built the Parthenon — after all it’s far more impressive than Stonehenge, which is really a bunch of big rocks placed next to each other.
I think it’s because the building of the Parthenon is well documented, and we know who the architects and builders and sculptors were, how long it took and how much it cost, and where the Athenians appropriated the money from.
It’s them gaps again, it’s all about gaps, which idiots rush to fill with fantasies. If people could just become comfortable with uncertainty…
___________________________
My initial reaction to that blog can very well be summed up in the eloquent words of another commenter – fuck me sideways with a stick. Holy batshit, they’re even more weird than regular creationists…
I’m surprised at you, sir.
I’ve only just discovered this blog a few days ago, and am enjoying it immensely (I’ve even linked one of your pieces on my own blog notwithstanding that the blog’s focus is matters musical and high-cultural). But despite my limited experience with your writings, you’ve not so far struck me as a man who would fall for such transparent baiting. And if it’s not baiting, and the writer is in earnest, well, then, he’s clearly a loony. Either way, he and what he wrote are (or, rather, ought to be) beneath even an acknowledgement by you.
Knowhadamean?
ACD
It smacks of baiting of the highest order from someone like the DI who can point to it and say: “See! ID is not just followed by religious people. We have credibility!”
Not very original. The Raelians believe life and humans were created by advanced extraterrestrial aliens. Intelligent design for sure. With the exact amount of evidence that the IDist have for their intelligent designer. Zero.
All these pseudoscientific belief systems seem more or less harmless. Except ones like the Heavens Gaters who really do drink the kool aide and die. As long as they don’t insist on teaching them to our children in their science classes, who cares?
Who would have thought that Morris MN was a seat of International conspiracy to suppress evidence for visits by aliens?
The Sasquatch Theory of Scientology
Who createdd the aliens? It’s an infinite regress, just as when you get god(s) involved!
He is clearly a follower of Charles Fort, who said “The Earth is a farm. We are someone else’s property”.
ACD, you may not be that familiar with creationists, so let me assure you that yes, there are people this fucking stupid.
As for your second suggestion, ignoring blathering bouts of creationism because it’s too blatantly stupid to be believed* is a surefire recipe for letting it spread and infect others. sunlight is the best disinfectant.
*I maintain that no statement could possibly exist that is obviously stupid enough such that no one could be convinced of its veracity. There’s always a bigger idiot.
I still like the twilight zone where someone finally translated the title of the book carelessly left behind by these great benevolent aliens. Yes, the ones that gave us the technology to solve world hunger and end all war. It’s a cookbook!
Jeez, what a stupid “theory”.
Everyone knows the tenth planet is full of Cybermen, and they can’t breed.
PZ, stop concealing the evidence against evolution!
For shame!
Even if you could say that the life on Earth WAS created entirely from scratch by some alien life form, there would still be ample evidence that evolution has handled matters on its own since that time. And of course, the alien thing would have left no evidence we’ve seen yet… its just silliness.
PZ,
I can only imagine the new blogger is pulling your leg. And you fell right for it, and so did several other readers of your blog. Except me. Nobody in their right mind can seriously believe this as a valid alternative to both biblical creationism and evolution. It’s gotta be parody.
ok… now what if the aliens didn’t create humans to work in the mines? What if they only want to serve us?
(… with a side order of mashed potatoes and gravy)
“Of course people like Myers suppress this evidence in favor of their own puny experiments in order to get funding for their “research” that never finds anything new…other than evidence against evolution, which they conceal very quickly”
So, if all these puny experiments only ever turn up evidence against evolution, which is immediately suppressed, why do people keep on funding them?
Arguing for ETID is, at least, a useful tool for exposing the true thrust of the ID movement–that the “designer” is their Judeo-Christian deity.
If you look at all the discussions on Dembski’s little blog, you will find that a naturalistic explanation for ID is given short shrift indeed, especially since Denise O’Leary arrived to spout her mind/brain duality nonsense.
makita: clearly you have not been hanging around the dregs of the species for long enough. there really are people who believe this shit – the Daniken crowd were just as retarded as this guy, and they sure as shit weren’t a parody.
Lepht
“I maintain that no statement could possibly exist that is obviously stupid enough such that no one could be convinced of its veracity. There’s always a bigger idiot.”
Is that Stogoe’s Law? Love it.
Okay, we really need to come up with a better word than atheist. I’m not happy with any collective noun that groups me with views like that.
He is not an ID proponent. He is an ED proponent.
There is a huge difference.
The former are involved in an historically ancient mass delusion. The latter are involved in a more personal and singular delusion of more recent origin.
You would use an entirely different mix of meds.
PZ? Why do you hate the aliens so much? They want to say hello to us, and YOU alone are keeping them from doing that. You’re drunk with power, Myers. Drunk, I say!
Aside from that, you did make the silly loon’s blog popular for what I’m thinking will be a day or two. Then again, if he actually does manage to rattle out a response to any of the comments, I imagine it could turn into a rather fun place for the pinata-smacking crowd. It’ll be the intellectual equivalent of stretching before a good run.
Did a memo go around dipstick central; prod PZ and the resultant take down will get you briefly noticed’?
Seems to be happening a lot.
One thing I’ve started to notice, PZ is that you’ve been getting so much mad street cred lately that more and more people have begun to spell your name correctly.
Don’t dismiss the Dänikenite’s so quickly. These arguments allow young people growing up with Judeo/Christian beliefs to learn about a truly silly explanation for human origins. However, next to their own traditions, they really aren’t so silly. This can be a big “ah ha” moment to realize that, if Däniken is wrong, maybe so is the Bible.
Listen to how this worked for Ira Glass, host of This American Life in the Prologue to Epidode 202.
Yes, as Pete says, some one needs to ask him, “Well, where did the aliens come from?”
I suppose his answer might be “”You’re very clever, young man, very clever. But it’s aliens all the way down.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down
You want evidence for extraterristrial design? No problem. Let me tell you about my wife. She’s outta this world!
That means it’s a parody. And what is this charming pink behemoth on my screen? At least it isn’t an obnoxious grab for comments.
Anyhow, I haven’t really figured out the motives for archaeology denial just yet. I figure it’s either that these monuments undermine the denier’s own misplaced sense of cultural superiority or, like the moon landing denialists, they think the construction of these vast projects stand as a testament to the power of human will and ingenuity. If they acknowledge either of those, they have to start taking responsibility for pollution, overpopulation, poverty, hunger, medicine, and so on. They feel they’re absolved of responsibility when they convince themselves that they’re ineffectual.
it strikes me more as a spoof and someone trying to confuse some of the ID arguments.
having said that the problem with the internet is that the nutters always seem to manage to outnut the spoofers.
I’m with PeteK. I’ve never understood how “aliens did it” was supposed to be a more useful explanation that “god did it”. You still have to explain the aliens.
Hm. It looks a little like what Charlie Wagner was fond of spouting, but it isn’t written in his style.
I am leaning towards the trollbait hypothesis…
(#7, #34) – Spelling “Myers” correctly is to be expected; it is a much more common spelling than “Meyers,” and should be the default spelling for those who don’t bother to verify it. How so many people manage to misspell it is an absolute mystery to me.
(no relation to PZ… just a common name)
::rubs eyes::
Oh! I thought for a moment John Norman had come out with another Gor novel.
Never mind.
— CV
I think the author is really somebody at ‘The Onion’ who has too much time on his or her hands.
If you think Dänikenites are bad, just wait until you get a Velikovskian! Worst of both worlds.
Wow, our research never finds anything new?
That’s really great! Someone tell me where all the answers are so I can write my thesis defense NOW! Yes, indeedy. Life as a scientist would certainly give me MUCH more free time if I didn’t have to do experiments.
I had no idea PZ hefted so much weight. Is it possible for PZ to some of his awsome powers to help me out?
Now I am wondering about the prime alien mover.
(Now I am pulling out Aristole. HELP!)
ID is based on the well known logical principle that once you rule out all the rational explanations that you can think of, the first irrational explanation you think of must be true. That explains why all arguments center on trying to poke holes in the theory of evolution and none actually justify the chosen irrational explanation. It’s about time that someone realised that pretty much any theory could replace the conclusion that “God did it.” While it’s tempting to write this off as a troll, it seems to square too nicely with what an actual Dänikenite would think of if he looked at the ID arguments.
Which reminds me of a joke…
What’s the difference between a Cyberman and a Clergyman?
One is a mindless robot dedicated to transforming all of humanity into copies of itself. The other is a fictional alien from Doctor Who.
Who createdd the aliens? It’s an infinite regress, just as when you get god(s) involved!
No, no, no. You see, the aliens, while quite bright, are relatively simple creatures. None of these gooey, irreducibly complex organs for them, no sir. All straight forward, one simple organ, one simple function. They just growed up, took a look at their DNA and said “Hey, we could make this go a whole lot faster” and came here to earth to try it out.
This sort of thing is much easier when you don’t need evidence :)
To an IDiot, I guess it must work like this:
If this is a spoof, then I’m not sure ‘troll’ is the right word. There seems to be a new breed of ironical sites which delight in sailing so close to the fundie/woo wind that they get as many indignant rationalists taking them to task as they do gullible fundies/crystal-botherers agreeing with them.
You probably get more points for suckering a rationalist. As a hobby it probably beats soduku.
Nazca and Stonehenge are glorious creations for ancient man. They are disappointing if created by ET.
That Nazca lines trick is still fooling people.
Out in the middle of nowhere in a great flat place there are huge drawings which cannot be seen from the ground but only from high up. Therefore there had to be flying machines for people to view the images.
That’s the story.
Check out Google Earth (-14.695,-75.122), see that you’re there, then look northwest, where there is a mountain ridge high enough for someone to stand atop and behold the images on the desert floor below. And right behind the viewer is El Rio Grande de Nazca and the farming community that’s been there for centuries.
The great mystery is only a small mystery now.
What are ‘haven henchmen’ when they’re at home? I don’t mind him being out there where the bats don’t fly, I do object to him marmalizing the English language.
Why in the world would PZ conceal solid evidence he discovered against (say) Evolution? He would trumpet his discovery to the world, to insure his certain Nobel Prize.
Ahh, SG-1 isn’t such a good series – and fiction doesn’t become better when it’s rewritten as fact.
I don’t think anyone has pointed out the most insidious thing about Danikenites — their “history” is incredibly racist. He praises the German transplants that started NASA to the high heavens, but finds it impossible to believe that “brown” people could do the things that have been done in the distant past.
I wonder if Von Daniken’s ever read Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond. I like the fact that Diamond’s book is, among other things, almost a perfect refutation of Von Daniken’s racism.
You take that back. It’s at least as good as any Trek.
I don’t need my own Law, but if you’re giving it away, then I’ll take it off your hands.
“… until the aliens were able to create life like theirs.”
If that’s all the aliens were after, wouldn’t the direct approach make more sense? Put on some Barry White, turn down the lights, share a few cocktails, and get busy. Repeat as needed, and soon enough they’d have more life like theirs than they could shake a stick at. For an advanced civilization, they’re dumber than box of rocks.
Normally I am aainst censorship but I think we should boycott the Sci-Fi channel until they ban the X-Files. Obviously Mulder made an ideological impression on this idio- er – guy.
That’s an ok plan, but it has some pretty serious flaws, not least of which is that X-Files seasons 1-4 were more awesome than a pirate-ninja battle in outer space, and the second is that I’m already boycotting the Sci-Fi channel because they plaster text and purple shit all over the show I’m trying to watch. Why is the world like this? Why, when I open a candy bar, is there an advertisment for another god damned candy bar on the inside? That’s how I know there isn’t a god — people with marketing degrees are still alive.
stogoe, is this a variant on the “No True Idiot” argument?
I hate to say it, but I’ve had at least two different people try to get that “slave race” thingy posted onto sci.bio.evolution. They get quite huffy when I (gently) reject it.
Not in the same league as the way Ted Holden blew up when I first rejected a post from Ed Conrad (“Do you have ANY IDEA who this man is?”, he screamed), but still, huffy. I guess that means, if there are two people who believe it, there may be a few others as well. Sad.
I don’t get it. I know who he is: an underemployed reporter for a small town ragsheet in central Pennsylvania. Why is that grounds for automatic support of his posts?
Is it because he’s better qualified than Ted Holden?
So you’re saying his argument just doesn’t stand up?
Okay, I went through my Von Däniken phase, when I was twelve – now I just refer to him as V.D.
Normally I am aainst censorship but I think we should boycott the Sci-Fi channel until they ban the X-Files.
I boycotted the Sci-Fi channel when they cancelled both “Dark Shadows” and MST3000. Now I just stay away because everything on it sucks pumpkin seeds.
I did a book report on Chariots of the Gods? when I was in Grade 9 (that’s 9th Grade for you ‘Mericans). Despite generally getting good marks for my book reports then, this one was slammed by my teacher.
Even then I wondered if the subject matter were a little too offensive to him; he was a staunch Roman Catholic.
Raven quoted:
I knew ELO and Mister Blue Sky had a sinister background…
Hah, that’s funny.
I’ve never thought that I would hear this kind of “argument” again.
Back in my school days, I had a Philosophy teacher (he studied philosophy and had a masters degree in it, req. for teachers here) who argued extensively with a friend and me about this. He absolutely believed that humans didn’t evolve but were created, made, changed, whatever by Aliens. Most of the philosophy course over the year was arguments between him and my friend and me.
In the end, I think we didn’t really do any philosophy at all besides this discussions, which must have been dreadful for the other course members. Still, he was quite fair and gave me and my friend both an A+ for our high participation in the course, even though we never agreed with him on anything, and almost everyone else got a C (even the ones that agreed with him) for not participating. :)
Re #11: Stongehenge is around double as old as the Partheon (5000 years vs 2500) and deeply in prehistory. It’s longer away from the Partheon than today’s big buildings.
There is some evidence from aerial photos of larger structures
similar to Stonehenge in Eastern Europe, but they are not directly
visible anymore.
If you want to enter a complete world of paranoia, woo and delusion… try the forums at http://www.abovetopsecret.com.
Lots of people like this guy talking to each other.
Regarding abovetopsecret.com: I wonder how many conspiracy theorists actually work for government? I suspect very few, since those of us whose jobs entail us to work with anyone outside our respective departments are very aware of how difficult the petty predjudices and personality conflicts that tend to affect many mid-level managers and higher would make any large-scale clandestine operation nearly impossible. Further, to assume that the rest of us ‘drones’ are so completely enamoured with our jobs that we wouldn’t jump at the opportunity to blow the whistle to the media about any nefarious goings-on shows blatant ignorance of human behaviour, especially when bored.
Do government departments engage in crazy shit that we, as the electorate, would have a fit about if we knew? Most likely. Do government departments cover up information about such shit on occasion? Undoubtedly. (Who hasn’t blamed the broken lamp on the cat or denied any knowledge of how the back seat of the rental car came to be stained with KY and ouzo?)
It’s not that governments or other organisations never do bad things. It’s just that, on the whole, they’re disorganised bad things, rather than all-encompassing, new world order-type conspiracies.
Oh, except for the criminalisation of marijuana. You know that’s totally the work of the man trying to keep us from expanding our minds. They can’t handle those of us who think outside the box, man. Also, I was watching Judge Judy, and I noticed that her chair is the same colour as EU passports. I sent Matt Drudge an email about it and he hasn’t responded yet, but what do you expect when the CIA monitors all of our email communication so it can map everybody’s network of friends (and don’t even get me started on Facebook) in order to create the most efficient way of distributing crack to inner city kids?
Hey, Leonard Nimoy called. He wants his premise back.
#25 – Makita. You need to listen to George Nouri (and Art Bell when he is on) on Coast to Coast AM. You’ll find people who routinely believe this stuff. Nouri is especially stupid in this regard, believing anything until it has been proven false (since he has heard so much, it is just too hard to dig out what is real, like space aliens who buid miles-tall cities on the moon, faces on Mars, and the illuminati). Look up people like David Icke, or the idiot ripping up those mountains in Bosnia (the Bosnian “pyramids”).
Unfortunately, people like this do exist in reality, more is the shame.
As a child growing up in the 1980’s, I mistook Erich Von Däniken’s and Immanuel Velivosky’s books as science fiction. Later I realized those books were written by and for people who earnestly believed such crazy things, I was astonished. Similar, but somewhat different to what you suggest, it lead me to realize that it was quite possible for one group to sincerely believe a work to be truth, while to others it was obviously untrue – or even seemingly a work of fiction. At this time, I was also finding many problems in the LDS (Mormon) scriptures and LDS church history. They were strongly at odds with history, archeology, many well-understood phenomena, science, and even themselves. Slowly I realized they were myths.
It claims that there’s a tenth planet in a very eccentric orbit, but some-odd thousands of years ago, it approached closely to earth and the intelligent natives came down and interbred with sasquatch to produce a slave-race (humans) to work in their mines.
And I for one welcome our new sasquatch overlords. I’d just like to point out that, as a trusted TV personality, I could be useful in rounding up others to work in their underground… what do sasquatch mine, anyway?
Wait… you’ve been suppressing the pyramids? And stonehenge? Wth?