To the men who catcall and those that dismiss catcall as compliments
Seriously.
Seriously!?
Watch this video. 10 hours, in an average day in New York City, resulting in more than a 100 catcalls and targeting. Did you enjoy the two men who follow her for some time? How about that Romeo persevering for 5 solid minutes? Did you want to congratulate him for his persistence?
Did you see Guy #48 or maybe #89 wonder why he wasn’t being thanked for “paying her a compliment”?
Or what about Mr Man #98 or maybe #23 wondering why on Earth she wasn’t smiling more?
This happens to people. All the time. Actual people are hounded and harassed, whistled at and pointed at, followed and stalked, touched and fondled without consent. Men do this to women. Not (only) “weirdos”, not (only) “creeps” – men. Of every age, race, height, financial bracket. Women can be wearing headphones and sunglasses, parkas and jackets – they will still be targeted. By now, if you think wardrobe curbs harassment, you’re not listening to what women are saying.
We men need to help stop this. We need to recognise this happens to women and we need to blame the men who harass – yes, harass, not compliment – not the women who they target. Women should be able to walk freely without feeling like they’re being tested, measured, assessed, and targeted. No one gives a flying fuck that you think a strange woman is a hottie, is sexy, is looking good. No one gives two shits about your opinion about her appearance while she’s traveling. You’re not being nice, you’re adding to an environment we all know is unsafe for women. Your disregard for women’s sense of security is matched only by your inability to shut the fuck up.
Male entitlement is a poison and it’s on toxic display here, pouring out the idiot mouths of sleazebags who think they’re fucking Romeo. Well fuck Romeo, and fuck perseverance. You’re not Romeo or Mario, there’s no princess in a castle you “get” for digging in your heels and “standing strong” – i.e. following a strange woman for five goddamn minutes. What the fuck? What do you think will happen?
Why on Earth would you even want to spend time with someone who clearly does not want to spend time with you? Entitlement means never having to reflect that your “niceness”, you’re “not being a dick” maybe doesn’t mean you get sexy time with a woman of your choosing (indeed, it shows you’re not actually a nice guy at all); entitlement means believing that you “deserve” women, not that women can decide that you’re not interesting, you’re not attractive, that maybe you’re bit of a creep. Hey, guess what: They’re allowed to. They owe you jack shit, mate.
You can stamp your feet all you want about how this one woman not giving you time of day is totally wrong about you; you can bully her into giving you her email and contact details, you can pout and say, like Man #45 or #87, “You think I’m ugly?”. Or you can accept she doesn’t see you as you do, or as your friends do, as your mom does and move the fuck on. There are other people in this world with differing opinions; there exist people who will dislike you, there will be women you find attractive who think you’re not.
Welcome to adulthood. It’s time to give up your entitlement and embrace a world that doesn’t give a fuck about what you think you deserve. Don’t “be a man”, be a respectful person – who stands up for others, who treats people with respect, who thinks women can make their own fucking decisions and should be given space to do and act as they want.
Stop your shit. And help stop other dudes’ shit. Women don’t deserve to be treated this way and they are. And it’s our fucking fault.
That one guy who followed her for five minutes was beyond creepy. These men don’t give one seconds’ thought to how their words and actions might impact women. To them, they have a right to a woman’s space. Women aren’t people with the right to exist on their own terms and in their own space.
Disgusting.
Oh and guess what?
I’m sure you’ll be utterly shocked to know that that woman, Shoshana B Roberts, has gotten rape threats in the wake of the video.
Ah, fuck. Thanks for the link.
Yes, men are creeps, also muslims are terrorists and blacks are thieves.
Glad that was your take away from this. #NotAllMen
Bob:
Did you miss this?
Tauriq addressed a specific group of men. Methinks you need to work on reading comprehension just a wee bit better.
# 3 Bob – Wow, way to immediately become defensive. Are you like those guys, Bob? If not, why are you identifying with them enough to post a #notallmen comment here?? This video reminded me of the very last club I ever went to. Hip hop club where the walkway to the bathroom was between the stage and a wall .. about 6 feet wide. Men would line those sides of the walkway, and when women had to go to the bathroom, it was like a gauntlet of grabbing, catcalling, attempted fondling, etc. One of the most revolting things I’ve ever seen while out and about. As is this video …
The best analogy I can think of (and one that really changed my pov on this stuff) is: I thought about how annoyed I get when a panhandler or street evangelist engages me and expects me to give them my attention. Only those occurrences are far less frequent (and threatening) than what women endure. And society doesn’t expect me to be polite to panhandlers and preachers.
And society won’t ask you what you did wrong or lay blame at your feet if one of them assaults you, either.
And those evangelists and panhandlers also try to engage you over stuff that most people are reasonably comfortable to discuss with strangers in public without repercussions. As opposed to, say, sex-related matters.
I need to point out that this is not only something that happens all the time to grown women, it also happens all the time to girls. imagine what that does to a 12 year old girl’s sense of belonging in the world, to her confidence, her self worth.
The first time I was catcalled I was in goddamned middle school. Same for my daughter.
Yes exactly. Thanks for adding this. Horrible.
A really good point. My partner told me she was getting groped around 10 or so by adult men, and the typical answer was that it was somehow her fault for ‘looking too vulnerable’
Because, you know, 10 year old girls need to look tough enough to scare adult men, only then they’d be getting slammed for being ‘dykes.’
Yes! This! I was 12 when I started getting catcalls from grown men and were not talking about anything that could even remotely be seen to be a compliment to anyone. Speculation about whether or not you’ve had some, asking if they can ride, talking loudly about the size of your boobs or your butt. If you don’t meet their personal criteria for beauty, whatever that may be, you get called out for being too fat, too tall, too short. I once got told my head was too big for my body. I spent all of my formative years doing everything I could to hide my body from the attention of male strangers. These aren’t compliments. It’s body policing meant to keep all women in their place. To keep them thinking about male attention, their own looks 24/7 and then vilifying them for being vain, on top of it all. It’s not complimentary. It’s a show of power and it starts with little girls.
Yeah…ugh. My wife says the same happened to her since she developed early. Heck, just a couple of days ago a dude in a car pulled up next to her while she was walking our dog at 7:30 am.
I have an entire blog post where I rant about all the times I had to lie to men to get them off my back. And it never really helped. I remember being like 14 and playing with my toddler aged siblings in a park, having a creep ask me if said sibling was my kid. I said ‘yes’, assuming that it would be enough for him to move on, since I knew lying about my age (adding or subtracting years) had never worked.
…and I was wrong. Guess if I allowed one dick in me, I’d be more than happy to have his. I still shudder at the thought.
Thanks. Also see Miri’s, in case you missed it https://proxy.freethought.online/brutereason/2014/05/05/on-women-who-lie-about-having-boyfriends/
On the YouTube thread for this video I saw several claims that this is how men meet women. If it really is common for men and women to begin a relationship by being random passersby, I have to ask why. Is it because there is a lot of segregation between the sexes, so men don’t already know a lot of women or don’t already have a lot of female friends?
Those claims are pretty well false, but they’re usually made by men who wouldn’t be willing to do anything sensible when it comes to meeting women. But beyond that,
The whole cat-calling thing is not about meeting women. It’s about asserting power and dominance over women in a public space. It’s about telling women that *men own this space.* It’s certain men who are doing it more to impress the fellow dude-bros.
There are plenty of men who don’t do this, but I don’t know how much impact they have. I’m imagining men kind of self-segregate in terms of those who would engage in this behavior and those that don’t,/.
Interesting point. I had always imagined this too. That the kind of men who don’t catcall women, just don’t hang around with the kind of men who do.
My impression is that the one following her and getting well within arms reach of her was a serious threat for assault.
Playing on social norms for tactical advantage is pretty common for street level criminals. As long as she is moving at a good clip away she is hard to control or attack. If she turns to address him she stops and becomes an easy target.
A quick punch to stun her and she gets hauled into an alley. The punch would be very quick and he would raise his voice and position his body to make it look like he is meeting an old friend and having a hug before stepping into the alley to talk things over where it is quieter. A few steps to get behind a dumpster and it is entirely up to him how far he takes things.
With luck it is just a mugging uncomplicated by physical or mental disability.
Even a single punch can maim or kill. This isn’t the movie where a person takes a punch and pops back up unharmed. Medical fact is that any force powerful enough to cause unconsciousness is powerful enough to kill.
It’s a bit weird how you wrote this post as if the sort of men who catcall women also read pro-feminist blogs:
It’s like you’re talking directly to these exceptionally creepy and unethical guys. Perhaps I have a higher opinion of your readership than you do, but I doubt anyone commenting here engages in this sort of clearly reprehensible behaviour.
I really don’t know to respond to your comment. I also don’t accept that certain groups of men are immune to treating women like crap. That is the entire point of my post.
If a man who persists in commenting on a woman’s blog despite knowing his comments are unwelcome reads feminist blogs*, I don’t see why a catcaller wouldn’t. When a man who raises funds to send an anti-feminist to a feminist conference (where that anti-feminist promises to confront women he’s been told to leave alone) reads feminist blogs, I don’t see why a catcaller wouldn’t. When a man who goes to a conference and attempts to shake the hand of a woman he knows has no interest whatsoever in meeting him reads feminist blogs, I don’t see why a catcaller wouldn’t.
A better question for Tauriq, Damion, might be why he thinks catcallers would be swayed by reasoned argument on the topic, when you so obviously hasn’t been. The answer to that, luckily, is that some people–many people, in fact–change their behavior when they figure out they’ve been causing problems for other people. Even if you don’t.
*Today seems like a good day to move Damion’s comments from moderated to spam, so he can’t use them as a way to make certain I see what he’s saying.
Today is the first I’ve heard that you’ve moved me from moderated (occasionally published) to spam, so it’s a bit odd to say that I *knew* my comments were invariably unwelcome.
That said, we still have a fair bit in common (freethought, humanism, blogging) far more than Tauriq and those people who accost women on the street.
I was unaware that Justin identifies as anti-feminist, nor that he confronted anyone at WiS.
Attempts? Hmmm…
I’m sorry to hear you had no interest in meeting me. As for me, I almost always enjoy meeting people that I’ve only ever met online. I find it’s generally a humanising experience.
Well, now, it seems like you’re equivocating on “topic” here. I’m already in full agreement with him about the topic discussed in the OP, and had yet to comment on these other topics that you’ve raised here.
I’m sorry to hear that my blog comments and physical presence have somehow caused you problems in the past. I’ll endeavour to steer well clear of you from now on.
If you change your mind, though, I’d be happy to buy you a drink at the pub in Springfield if you care to chat.
You can’t be that obtuse. I don’t believe that you’re unaware that your comments are unwelcome at Almost Diamonds.
It’s a bit weird that you don’t realize that some men can be pro-women’s rights, but still engage in catcalling. Surely you realize that even progressive men can be sexist.
It’s also a bit weird that you don’t realize that Tauriq could just be signal boosting this video.
It’s also a bit weird that you don’t realize that pro-feminist men aren’t the only ones reading Tauriq’s blog. Given the comments I’ve seen from you over the years, I don’t know that I’d characterize you as pro-feminist, yet here you are.
…yet here I am, having never even considered catcalling anyone, ever, despite those awful comments you’ve seen.
Nothing wrong with signal boosting, of course. It’s the righteous damnation that seems oddly out of place, given the probable readership.
Maybe I’m wrong, though. Maybe loads of insensitive pricks read this blog.
Wow, you really left yourself open for that one.
Not my point. Did you miss the part where I said:
That’s me saying that it shouldn’t be a surprise that people who are not feminists read this blog (case in point: you).
>> “It’s the righteous damnation that seems oddly out of place, given the probable readership.
Maybe I’m wrong, though. Maybe loads of insensitive pricks read this blog.”
As has been pointed out, blogposts aren’t only read by regular blog readers. That’s something I never thought I’d have to write, but anyway. (Also, as we know, this blog network in general is target of weird obsessives who analyse our every move and they’re not exactly fans of progressive politics or feminism. )
Second, this is my blog and I can write and focus on who I like. It’s pretty insulting to receive unsolicited advice about the thing I’m paid to do and make my life from. This aside from noting your claim that only one type of person reads my blog is so obviously false.
I’m not questioning your focus, I’m questioning your methods. You’re angrily and directly dressing down these men as if they are actually reading pro-feminist pro-atheist blogs. That’s a bit of a leap. Even the Pitters I talked to already think street harassment is shameful.
I wasn’t giving advice before but here is some now. If you want to help curb street harassment, find the people who actually do it and ask them why they do.
Also, too being the internet and all, there’s a reasonable likelihood that Tauriq’s words will be shared, excerpted etc., and land in areas with different readerships. There’s a non-trivial amount of (gamergate, slymepit, MRAs) people out there who seem positively obsessed with monitoring the activities of the FTBullies so that they can bring nuggets back to their misogynist dens. So there’s a good chance these words will reach exactly the kinds of people Tauriq is addressing in the OP.
HT, Uncle!
Something I find rather disturbing is seeing some conversation about this video on Twitter today, as well as yesterday, with several women calling this really mild compared to what they get. Especially women of color getting catcalls from White guys. It’s also apparently come up that for this video they ended up cutting out all the White guys catcalling/harassing, perhaps coincidentally for not being on camera or the audio clear enough. Additionally, the harassment can be a different tone with women who are heavier or otherwise less conventionally attractive.
I know Everyday Sexism has hosted a lot of examples of street harassment too in the past. Including, as others have already mentioned, starting out quite young. Definitely something we need to do more about.
Thanks, John. Yeah, I’ve seen those discussions about race aspects from writers who are people of colour; it’s an important focus but one I don’t know much about in terms of how to talk about in regards to feminism. Roxane Gay’s points have been especially potent.
“I think we can acknowledge that street harassment is pervasive and terrible and constant while also saying that video has ISSUES.” https://twitter.com/rgay/status/527472002383495169
Tauriq:
Have you seen this article which criticizes the video? I think the criticism may be warranted.
thank you so much, Tony. I adore Lindy.
Women are so downtrodden. Men are such bad, evil people. Don’t believe me? Check this out:
http://www.realsexism.com/
After you read this, there will be no doubt in your mind as to why men are so evil.
#KillAllMen