Rebecca has a transcript of the ThunderfQQt video at Skepchick.
I know all of this seems very silly to those of you who don’t know as much about preventing rape as Thunderfoot, but let me tell you, I’ve done a lot of research into this and a lot of what Thunderfoot says in his video is indistinguishable from the words of wisdom offered by actual admitted rapists in prison. There have been several studies looking into their stories and what they have to say and let me tell you Thunderfoot has done a great job of sounding exactly – exactly- like those rapists.
For instance, there was a study done in 1984 that included in-depth interviews with rapists in prison and these rapists went into their justifications for why they raped. And the researchers found several major themes throughout all of the answers, one of which was that many of the rapists believed that the women they raped didn’t do enough to convey the fact that they did not want to be raped. Even though many of the rapists were holding deadly weapons at the time, they still believed that the women just didn’t fight back because they secretly wanted it.
One woman one of the rapists described she was abducted at knifepoint in the middle of the night and gang-raped, and actually they interviewed two of her rapists, and they reported that she didn’t resist it so she was probably into it. They don’t go into detail on what would have happened with the knife if the woman had resisted but many of the other rapists mention that they only got violent with women because of resistance but who knows maybe if she had resisted they would have just left her alone.
Who knows, right? As Rebecca says. Who, who knows. How can we possibly tell. That’s good skepticism, see, knowing that we don’t know. Expert advice is don’t resist, but who who knows. If rapists say the women they raped didn’t do enough to convey the fact that they did not want to be raped, then maybe the thing to do is convey the not wanting to be raped really strongly. Who knows, maybe the rapist will leave you alone, who knows, maybe the rapist will kill you. The jury is still out. No dogmatism here, folks.
Another common theme in the study was the idea that nice girls don’t get raped. A large percentage of rapists in prison vociferously agreed with many of Thunderfoot’s points here, using their victims’ dress and behavior as a way to excuse raping them. Their comments ranged from pointing out that a woman they raped was wearing tight black clothes or wearing a skirt, or that a woman spread her legs when exiting a car, or that a woman claimed she was a virgin but seemed much more experienced while being raped, or this gem: “She was a waitress and you know how they are.”
One rapist claimed that his victims deserved it because they had been prostitutes, even though pre-sentence reports indicated that none of them were prostitutes.
Much like Thunderf00t, these rapists believed that these traits made their victims more rapable. So to follow Thunderf00t and the convicted rapists’ thinking, women can avoid being raped by not wearing tight black clothing or skirts, by keeping their knees locked while exiting cars, by not being waitresses, by not being mistaken for a prostitute by a deranged rapist, or even by not having sex, ever. By not being experienced in bed. Don’t get me wrong, there is still a very good chance you’ll get raped, but at least there will be fewer ways for Thunderf00t and your rapist to blame you for it.
And you know what, it might just be worth it. It might just be worth almost anything not to have to hear Thunderfcct explaining about rape ever ever again.
Yeah, it’s pretty fucking creepy when a guy distinguishes himself by sounding SO MUCH like a rapist that you start to wonder.
Yeah, it hasn’t surprised me so far when some of those raising the loudest objections to sexual harassment policies have been named as actual offenders. It sure as hell wouldn’t surprise me if Thunderfoot were one of them, with that massive sense of entitlement he has.
I really loved the way Rebecca stopped just short of saying what I said above while making the point oh so strongly. Why do people think it’s a good idea to mess with her?
I have no idea whether Phil Mason has ever sexually assaulted anyone, but we don’t need to speculate about that to know that it doesn’t matter here: this sort of rhetoric is so commonly espoused that it probably isn’t the case that most people employing it are offenders. This is why rape culture is so damaging, so toxic, and why so many people are blind to it. I know that doesn’t need to be pointed out here, but it should be recorded in this discussion, lest anyone wants to excitedly claim that Phil Mason is being labelled a rapist.
If it was a reliable indicator of rapists, then we would be much better able to prevent attacks.
It’s not fun watching someone who I once respected go so so far off into the deep end. I don’t think though that Rebecca was trying to insinuate he’s an offender or that she “wouldn’t be surprised” if he was. That would be unfair. She’s showing how those common tropes on how women can avoid being raped come from the same logic as the justifications used by rapists. I used to think that stuff was “common sense” too (i.e. don’t walk alone at night wearing a miniskirt and heels). But statements like “She was a waitress, and you know how they are” just blow that out of the water. The problem is men’s entitlement and no matter what women do, a rapist will find SOME twisted justification.
For years I had no idea I was a part of rape culture or that I was giving apologetic cover to actual rapists.
It can be quite hard to pull one’s head out of one’s own ass.
RW didn’t insinuate it. That doesn’t mean it won’t become legend that she did.
I took a peek at the Slymepit forum last night (after my third beer) and that’s exactly the narrative that has sprung up there already…”Rebecca Watson called ThunderT00t a rapist!!1!!1111!!!”
Yes, some people are that shallow and that predictable…
Phil Mason has gone a great deal further than “most people”. I’m not saying he is a rapist, but he sure as hell sounds like one. Either way, it doesn’t inspire me to think of him as a person with generally good motivations and reasonable arguments. He’s so far into bullshit land that I can’t actually distinguish his arguments from those of someone who would rape.
In the real world, people call what he’s doing and the level to which he’s doing it a big ass red flag. I’ve known people like that and I avoid them for a reason. If I can’t trust you, I don’t want to know you. A person who thinks like he does is not worth the risk.
Was being aware of red flags and avoiding people who toss them out like candy on his list of helpful suggestions? I could agree with that.
Yeah… let’s not go speculating on whether or not Thunderf00t is a rapist. We don’t know and such speculation is harmful (more said for any future posts than previous posts, but still).
I have to second the question of why anyone thinks it’s a good idea to mess with Rebecca. She’s really good at pretty much tearing these ideas apart into tiny little shreds, dowsing those shreds in gasoline, and then lighting them on fire. Shitty ideas never survive when she takes them on.
And of course the Slymepit’s saying she called Thunderf00t a rapist. They can’t engage with the actual things said, so they build strawmen. This is not new.
Look y’all, let’s not talk about whether Phil is a rapist or not. It doesn’t really matter. The main point here is that those who do acquaintence-rape use the cover of rape culture to do so.
The point of educating people not to rape is not so much about potential rapists as it is changing the environment they operate in. Without support their numbers will decline. And I do think that a few dudes who might have become rapey might give that up with proper education.
But in this age of Ignorance-Only sex education we have a hard time of getting this message out. Girls are worthless sluts who deserve their punishment baby if they let their piece of chewed gum whoo-hah take a dick. And it was already a chewed piece of gum. So what’s the harm whether their was consent or not?
It wasn’t this bad back when I grew up. We somehow got the message that consent was pretty important. Rape stuff for old dudes, and we were gonna get awesome consensual pussy that recognized female sexual agency than you ever got with your rapey ways. We believed it and it mostly worked for us even though there was still slut-shaming and a rape subculture. I think purity education and Ignorance-Only sex education has made rape culture stronger than when I was younger.
Yes, it was. It was this bad and worse.
OMG!! I was not aware of B&W when this was going on. So I’m posting on a dead thread – kill me already O_O
Thunderf00t? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! SAY IT ISN’T SO!!! He did such a masterful takedown of this little wanker dickwad VenomFangX, who is a devout Christian wannabe full-time preacherdude, who solicited donations for “Sick Kids Hospital” where he lives in Canada. AND pocketed the donations. Surprise surprise O_O
Well, sirs and ma’ams, Thunderf00t documented *all* his weaseling and waffling, to the point that VenomFangX had to make a tearful public Youtube apology and disappear. But only for a while, it turns out.
So this is that same Thunderf00t? Could there be two? UNlikely!! I am *SO* disappointed!! Must…go…read…the…Myth of the Consistent Skeptic…again…
And, yeah – it was TOTALLY “this bad and worse” before “abstinence-only” sex ed was even a twinkle in some misogynist conservative Republican throwback’s pineal eye *eyes roll right out of head*