Add this story to my long list of “Why I am so happy to be finally moving away from Indiana”:
Erin Vaught went to a Muncie emergency room coughing up blood. Two hours later, she was refused treatment on grounds that she is transsexual. In what is a serious lapse of medical ethics, and had Vaught died, would have been criminal negligence, Ball Memorial Hospital staff treated Vaught with contempt, ridicule, and even eventually met with dismissal of her condition.
It stated when the admitting nurse at the ER entered that Vaught was male into the computer despite the fact that her ID stated that she is female. Vaught stated “I pointed out that my ID says female. There were two ladies there, and one of them snickered a little bit and covered her mouth. The other got a very annoyed look on her face. Vaught was there with her wife and son.
When she went to the exa-room, she was met with stares and insults. She was referred to as a ‘he-she’, an ‘it’, and a ‘transvestite’. Vaught is a transsexual, or one who is physically undergoing the process of changing physical sex. Transvestites are people who often get sexually aroused while wearing the clothes of the opposite gender, but have no desire to change sexes.
The doctor arrives two hours later and said that she could not treat Vaught because of “her transgender condition”. According to Vaught “I was confused. I told them I didn’t know my condition, that’s why I was there. She said ‘No, the transvestite thing.’ She said I couldn’t see a doctor until I came back with test orders from my doctor in Indy.” What her exact condition is has not been released.
It’s so sad that people who make their living out of helping others and saving lives would be so cruel to someone based on their gender identity. Even if for whatever reason you don’t agree with or understand transsexuals, that doesn’t mean you should deny them medical treatment. Maybe since she was transitioning that posed valid medical concerns that this particular hospital’s staff was not specialized enough to deal with, but that doesn’t excuse the insensitivity of their statements.
I’ve long had a special place in my heart for the difficulties faced by transvestites and transsexuals. One of my great mentors in life, and in fact the person who is solely responsible for helping me with the first steps on my long road to rejecting religion, is herself a transvestite. Some issues with the nomenclature involved are understandable. But such wanton disregard is…nauseating.
Slight note: the preferred spelling is “trans woman” rather than “transwoman”, treating “trans” as an adjective describing a type of woman rather than a separate category from “woman”.That said, this kind of story is all too common. A lot of trans individuals have died from EMTs ignoring them when they discovered their trans status.Maybe since she was transitioning that posed valid medical concerns that this particular hospital’s staff was not specialized enough to deal withExtremely unlikely. I can’t think of a single condition where her being trans would be relevant medically. Being that this was in the US, she was probably taking spiro, which does have some relevance, but no more than any other medication. This was pure anti-trans bigotry, nothing more.
I just saw the video and that is some crazy sh*t going on in Indiana!http://laughinginpurgatory.blo…
Wow, just wow. I can understand being a little freaked out by meeting someone transgender, but that was shameful to say the least. These people are supposed to be freaking professionals! Grrrrrr….
I’ll freely admit that I have trouble getting over the awkward discomfort with regard to transgender people when I notice, but there is no excuse for not doing your fucking JOB. Seriously, refusing treatment because someone’s a transsexual should be grounds for losing your goddamn medical license.They ought to be made to pay for her treatment after a series of stunts like that.
What they identify as is how I view them, and if I see someone being treated like shit for being a trans man or a trans woman (or for being gay or lesbian for that matter) I’ll jump right in to defend them.How’s that saying go? Evil prevails when good people stand by and do nothing?
But it would have been a violation of their rights if they’d been required by law to treat that woman as a human being. Isn’t it great that their freedoms are protected? Sarcasm aside, those people make me sick. I hope they get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. There’s no excuse for their behavior.
No matter what the person’s orientation, race, religion or no religion, sex or age The patient has right to medical care. Being an Emergency Room means most likely they accept Medicare and Medicaid benefits from the patients as well. Thereafore by federal Law and state law medical care is required and the actions of the doctor and staff or lack of is gross grounds for losing medical licensing and nursing staff involved can also lose their license. I recommend the patient that was discriminated take it to court and put the Health Care Facility on notice. I have been in the medical field for almost 20 years as a National Registered Paramedic and I can say the patient has been violated in more ways then one..
Maybe someone knows more than I, but my understanding is that the operation itself only modifies the structure of the penis and scrotum, as opposed to somehow creating a vagina and ovaries, which would seem to suggest that a post-op transsexual, outside of the legal standing itself, is still biologically a member of their original sex.This would suggest that one’s biological and identified sex exist on separate continuum, meaning that a post-op transsexual could be identified with equal accuracy as either a man or a woman, depending on the topic of discussion.None of this really bears on the blog entry itself, just something that came to mind.
“Maybe since she was transitioning that posed valid medical concerns that this particular hospital’s staff was not specialized enough to deal with”Thank you for addressing this statement Christina T. It was hard to tell from the initial post whether or not there was a related issue and in my ignorance I wondered the same thing. Straight bullocks this is.
Stories like this make me absolutely sick. Basically, it was the “ick” factor of transexuality that caused the hospital workers to refuse treatment. They should all be fired and blackballed from the entire medical community (if such a thing is possible) for life. Absolutely disgraceful and beyond wrong.
I accidentally liked this trying to click the reply button. But whatever. I rather think you’d be better off going on the way the person in question identifies themselves.
Even pre-op, or if the person can’t afford the operation and satisfies themself with being a transvestite who takes a woman’s name, it’s polite to refer to them as their chosen gender.Though some slipups are understandable when your lifelong friend Alice is suddenly George.
Ugh. I hate ridiculous people. Sadly, this is the second incident I’ve heard of recently.A few weeks ago, a transsexual came into the store I work in, and she couldn’t find something. I watched as she went up to one of my fellow workers, asked where something was, and then was promptly ignored. It made me so angry! I helped her out, and later on my co-worker came up to me saying, “Did you see that dude?!” I rolled my eyes, said that I saw a woman, and that not only was she a woman, but she was also a human and deserved to be respected; especially considering she was one of our CUSTOMERS.That shut up the co-worker fairly quick, but it still makes me mad.
I hope she sues.
It may be polite, but is it correct? That was the heart of my comment, with the point being that the criteria from which one judges the sexuality can vary depending on the context from which the judgment is being made.When judged from a social context, one might have the defining point be appearance: If it looks like a woman, talks like a woman, and smells like a woman (whatever these things happen to be in that culture) then it’s a woman.Alternatively, in the context of a gene study, the defining criteria might well simply be the chromosome pairing in the individual, with what sex they think they are being nothing more than an amusing aside.Depending on one’s point of view, it could be valid to view an individual as maintaining all of these sexual identities, in their respective contexts, simultaneously.As an example, a particularly flamboyant homosexual (one of my friends, in this instance) might be viewable as culturally male (our culture tends to judge sex by what you keep in your pants), socially female (they demonstrate social behavior in line with feminine expectations), and genetically male (for obvious reasons).Personally, sexual identity is irrelevant to me outside of the purely practical: If it has a vagina and a functioning womb, it’s female from the only standpoint that concerns me. Any other combination of traits puts it in a neutral ground where sex definition is of little consequence to me.
Why would I be better off? Or, more clearly, outside of practical reproductive considerations, in what way does what sex someone thinks they are affect me, for better or worse?
I’m not sure whether I should be more appalled by your insinuation that a woman who is unable to have children is not a woman, by your claim that flamboyantly gay men are socially female, or by your marginalization of transgendered peoples by calling their identity “an amusing aside.”Any point you were trying to make is completely lost among your prejudicial nonsense.
It’s clear from the content of your response that you didn’t actually read my comment.I said that for *my* purposes, sex only becomes *relevant* where reproduction is concerned. Once the possibility of children is ruled out, the distinction between men and women seems a bit moot to *me*, a superfluous descriptor, so to speak. It bears noting, that as an extension to this my becoming sterile would also make sexual distinctions inconsequential.I did not claim that flamboyantly gay men *are* socially female, I said that “as an example” they “might be viewable” as “socially female.” You’ll note the “example” and “might” both limit this to the purely hypothetical while “viewable” directs my statement towards it’s focus on individual perceptions.I said that in a “gene study” what sex an individual identifies themselves as having may be “nothing more than an amusing aside” as the sexual determiner would likely be the presence or absence of a Y chromosome.I do not know how you could have possibly read any venom into my comment much less the absolute rancor you seem to have, but would politely recommend that you, to paraphrase the adage, “read twice and post once.”
This story is saddening and sickening. What’s makes this worse is that most people won’t even care, and even if they care, they won’t give it much more thought.Now, imagine if a hospital had refused treatment because the patient was Black or Jewish, there would have been a national uproar (and rightfully so!).I hope that in my lifetime I get to see true tolerance and equality for EVERYBODY; but I’m not holding my breath…*sinks deeper into the pit of misanthropic nihilism*
I wrote a blog post about something similar yesterday: http://realityismyreligion.wor… Someone at my work actually said that.
[Citation needed]The behaviour of the medical and nursing staff there, if the story is true, is disgraceful.
As a nurse, I am disgusted and shocked at the way the staff responded to this individual. The lack of respect is disgraceful. I echo the hope that she sues.
I guess Indiana isn’t a fan of Primum Succurrere.
That is mind-bogglingly unethical O_o You can’t do that. You just can’t. I’ve treated some most unsavory and disturbing people in my time (as in psychopaths rapists and murderers, not just offending someone’s puritanical small-minded notion of ‘nice’) – and you just can’t say no on that basisLeaving aside the awful behaviour and truly pathetic lack of humanity and acceptance….
I think that in a medical setting there could be a legitimate reason to know someone’s biological sex in order to treat them correctly. It might be a good idea, for example, to know what organs they are going to find if they have to do emergency abdominal surgery. If that’s what you are getting at, then for a medical facility I can see a need for that information in addition to the person’s gender identity. But there certainly needs to be a better way to find out.
Society has a long way to go on acceptance of transgender people. We’re getting their with homosexuality, but even some people who accept homosexuals are not so accepting of transgender. Discrimination is wrong in all cases, but for medical personnel to behave this way, regardless of their personal feelings is beyond the pale. I only hope that the story isn’t entirely accurate, because if it is then this behavior is truly sickening. To put another person’s life at risk because they make you uncomfortable when you are a medical professional should end a medical career. It seems to me a crime far beyond simple discrimination.
I agree with you, however my initial comment, while spurred by the nature of this blog post, was entirely separate.I wasn’t attempting to defend or condemn a series of events that I wasn’t a primary party to, rather I was making a general suggestion to the effect that sex may not be as clear cut as “I am male” or “I am female.”
I have no words for how utterly saddened and disgusted I am. I need to find something /really/ good to regain some of the hope for humanity I just lost.
It’s hard to believe a significant portion of a hospital staff could be so heartless.
Wait a bloody minute, I thought it said India when I first replied. Someone’s head is going to need to roll if this sort of thing is going on in a U.S. hospital.
I have to agree with LS here. While I don’t think you were intentionally being malicious, your various assertions are extremely offensive. You don’t quite come off as one of the venom-spitting homophobes I have to deal with normally, but rather as an ivory-tower-of-academia holdover who is so far removed from actual society as to be completely irrelevant. Yes, gender and sex definitions can be complicated, but the way you described these differences is highly offensive, and your back-stepping to argue that you didn’t actually mean it, you were just throwing out hypotheticals, comes off as a rather sad attempt at post-hoc analysis. Yes, you framed most of your statements in hypothetical terms, but your choice of phrases and examples betrays a good deal of bias.Referring to someone’s chosen gender identity as “an amusing aside,” even putting those words in the mouth of a hypothetical geneticist, is offensive in that it implies that trangendered people ought to be laughed at. Saying that, “Personally, sexual identity is irrelevant to me outside of the purely practical: If it has a vagina and a functioning womb, it’s female from the only standpoint that concerns me,” is particularly offensive in that you admit this is your personal viewpoint. Essentially, you’re saying that the only thing that makes a woman a woman is her ability to bear children. This greatly denies the differences in experiences between men and women in society, while also robbing large portions of the population of sexual identity. Is your grandmother no longer a woman because she can no longer bear children? Is a man who has a vasectomy no longer a man because he cannot impregnate a woman? Do sterile people have no right to a gender identity? People tend to resent having their identities reduced to the functionality of their genitals.
Better off as far as the person in question and their feelings; I suppose it wouldn’t affect you much unless irritating people bothers you.
Quite to the contrary from backpedaling, I have, I think, a fairly reasonable belief that LS did not understand my statements at all.I can state, with the utmost certainty, that if you have found anything I said offensive, that you have not understood my meaning, instead inserting your own terminological biases in place of my actual assertions. Granted, as the success of communication rests entirely in the hands of the one doing so, this misunderstanding is entirely my fault.So, some clarifications:What you have viewed as backpedaling was actually a reaffirmation of my original meaning. It may help to reread my statements in this light.I actually meant everything I said, in the instance of the hypotheticals I was only providing an example of an instance in which an individual might have a compound sexual identity, being male in some regards and female in others. I must vehemently reassert that I was *not* indicating that *all* homosexual men *are all* socially female. To have read my statement this way is to have ignored the actual words I was using, which I emphasized in my previous affirmation (“might be” “viewable” and “example”). The suppositional nature of these terms was an intentional selection on my part and should be considered in the *initial* reading of my post.Again, as I have already stated, the comment regarding “an amusing aside” was specifically in reference to the amount that one’s chosen gender is relevant to a genetic analysis of that individual, which is to say virtually not at all, making the line on form work for that individual saying “Sex: Female” or “Sex: Male” nothing more than “an amusing aside” regarding the issue at hand. To take this statement and expand it beyond the specific context in which I used it is simply unreasonable, much less attempting to draw conclusions about my original meaning from such a use.As for your last paragraph, I clearly indicated that these were my views regarding the way that I see sexual identity, which is to say: Not at all. I was making absolutely no statement regarding the nature of sexual identity beyond the *exact* words I used in the *exact* context in which I used them.What makes a woman a woman depends *entirely* on what you are using as the definition of womanhood. Does one use legal status? (as the government does) Apparent sex traits? (as many do)Actual sex organs? (as many do)Sexual functionality? (as I do)Behavior? (as quite a few aboriginal tribes, including some Native Americans once did)An individuals self-identification? (As Ryan Schneider above does)In my case I consider the issue to be personally irrelevant outside of reproduction. So, to respond to the remainder of your statemenst:”you’re saying that the only thing that makes a woman a woman is her ability to bear children”- No, I’m saying that if an individual can’t bear children, whether they are a woman or not is an entirely cosmetic issue that I couldn’t care less about.”This greatly denies the differences in experiences between men and women in society, while also robbing large portions of the population of sexual identity.”- If everyone in the population saw things as I did? Probably, but then I tend to view things from an intensely neutral position. However, as it stands, people have whatever gender identity they have, and regardless of how they so identify themselves, they are the same to me, judged independently as individuals without regard for their sex. Whether straight, gay, bi, male, female, transgenders, hermaphroditic, or asexual, people are people to me and the details don’t matter.”Is your grandmother no longer a woman because she can no longer bear children?”- No, she’s no longer a woman because she is dead, but were she not she would be a woman or not solely based on whatever definition we decided to use at that moment, and regardless of what we decided, the outcome would change nothing for me.”Is a man who has a vasectomy no longer a man because he cannot impregnate a woman?”- See previous statement regarding my grandmother, ignoring the consideration of vivacity.”Do sterile people have no right to a gender identity?”- That’s an interesting question, that depends on what your definition of a ‘right’ is. Constitutionally speaking we only have what rights as have been explicitly given to us, which would suggest that we do not in fact have a right to a gender identity, though we would certainly have a right to call ourselves whatever we wanted as an extension of the First Amendment. I would imagine that sterile individuals would, as a subset of The People, benefit from whatever rights the public have on the matter. Does it matter to me what their gender is though? See previous statement on vasectomized men.”People tend to resent having their identities reduced to the functionality of their genitals. “- Your assertion seems reasonable though I would question the sampling you did to reach it. Regardless, I did not reduce the identities of anyone to their genitals, identities being a great deal more than one’s sex, sexuality, or skin color. I did, however, state that outside of a specific instance, what sex an individual is doesn’t matter to the way I perceive them. This is a far cry from the sweeping statements you’ve accused me of making.It is my hope that something here helps you, or anyone else who may have misunderstood a statement of mine, to better understand my musings on the nature, relevancy, and, more than a little, arbitrariness of sexual identity.
“Maybe since she was transitioning that posed valid medical concerns that this particular hospital’s staff was not specialized enough to deal with…”Yep.It was at the wrong hospital. Your average GP and supportive nursing staff isn’t trained to deal with fetishes. Go to a psychiatric hospital, they can deal with everything there. In fact, they embrace deviancy—
That’s a fair point. I generally prefer not to cause undue irritation in others, though my general blindness to social cues in face to face interactions makes it a bit unavoidable.
I’d say she just won herself a Hospital. If nothing else she is looking at a retirment worthy out of court settlement. She never even needs to mention her gender. She was a person coughing up blood who was turned away from a facility that accepts state/federal funding. I have no legal training but I can’t see any effective defence.
First off, the article doesn’t say whether she’s had SRS. Not all trans women get SRS. Secondly, it does create a vagina, but not ovaries or a uterus (yet). But ovaries and a uterus do not make a woman, or a woman with a hysterectomy would cease to be a woman. Secondly, for most purposes, hormones are the most important physiological factor, and a trans person on HRT for years generally has a hormonal balance typical of a cisgender person their identified sex. That is, a trans woman has the same hormonal balance – high estrogen and progesterone, low testosterone – as a cis woman. Conversely for a trans man having the same hormonal balance as a cis man.
There are female-assigned-at-birth people with a Y chromosome, and male-assigned at birth people with no Y chromosome. There are, in fact, no traits that are universal to sex by whatever definition. There are conditions such as Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome where a woman has non-descended testicles, but is otherwise physically female. There is at least one known case of a female-assigned-at-birth XY woman even bearing a child. Sex is a lot more complex than just chromosomes or genitals.But, ultimately, what the fuck difference does it make whether someone’s capable of producing sperm, ova, or neither?
But even that’s a lot more complex than a simple binary issue. Humans come in a lot more than two shapes. There are individuals born with a female phenotype who never have a uterus. Some individuals born with a male phenotype have a uterus, and even menstruate monthly, the blood exiting through the penis, or a small opening.Seriously, from a medical perspective, knowing only “male” or “female” is inadequate. From a strictly medical perspective, it would make more sense to simply refer to people has “persons with uteri”, “persons with high estrogen/low testosterone”, etc., which categories have a high – but not total – degree of overlap.
None of this is actually relevant.You don’t get to tell people how to identify. Full-stop. It’s not all about you.
Fuck you. Being transgender isn’t a “fetish”
A couple of examples of medical malpractice against trans people that resulted in death:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T…
Wow, I’m kind of sad my blog can attract such fuckheads
I agree, wholeheartedly. The complexity of the issue of sex was exactly what I was trying to get at. Any of the dozen or more ways one might choose to define the sexes will disagree with each other (someone who through self identification is female but is hormonally male, for example, similar to a girl I once dated with a testosterone imbalance, lol ;) ).However, if one were to take all of these various measuring sticks, and lay them side by side, one could generate a compound determination of an individuals sexual identification.As for the production of sperm or ova, or the inability to produce either, I would imagine that, outside of the selection of a mate for reproduction, it doesn’t matter at all. Then, though, that’s exactly what I was saying.
With regards to Jen’s blog post? Well, you are absolutely right, of course, but then I did say:”None of this really bears on the blog entry itself, just something that came to mind.”That being the case, I really don’t see why you would be surprised at the lack of relevancy to the OP. Then, though, I suppose you might have not read my first post before commenting, which brings me to the next thing:I never, at any point, in any of my posts, indicated that an individual should identify themselves in any particular way. In point of fact, all of my posts dealt with the perceptions of individuals regarding the sex of *others*, as in “Is this person that I’ve met male, female, or neither?” and how one might go about answering such a question, culminating in the thought that sexuality is a complex affair that requires more precise definition than is actually used by the public at large.Then, though, I don’t imagine you read anything I wrote before jumping on the Shout-down-the-tranny-hater bandwagon.
I absolutely agree, but that’s what I was getting at. The concepts of masculinity and femininity, by the very fact that they cannot be clearly and absolutely defined force us to a position of sexual ignosticism. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I… for those interested)I think our ongoing growth in understanding of what it means to be human, and the various forms that humanity can take, will eventually force us to reconsider our dualistic view of sexuality.Particularly if the article I read about the eventual disappearance of the Y chromosome is at all accurate ;) lol.
the sad truth is that happens all too much and sometimes with fatal consequences.
You are right, but as I indicated at the end of my original post, I was just sharing musings of mine spurred by reading Jen’s blog entry, and wasn’t commenting on the events described therein.As for the relationship of reproductive organs to womanhood, and their association with hysterectomies, that all comes back to the definition of womanhood.If the definition of one’s sex is, in fact, their sex organs, then the removal or alteration of those sex organs *would* change or remove their sex. Were I, for example, to be castrated, would I still be a man? If testicles are required for manhood, then no, though that wouldn’t make me a woman, either. I would be rendered a neuter, but then isn’t that the term for one who is neither male nor female? So, maybe which organs we have is the determiner, and a portion of the population is simply neither male nor female.However, if the definition of manhood or womanhood is something else than one’s sex organs, what is it? Until we decide on the defining traits of a given sex, it is not true to say that an individual is a member of that sex.While the word ‘man’ is without definition, it cannot be said, truthfully, that I am a man.So, is manhood a preponderance of testosterone, the presence of testes, or a shaved head and a Niners jersey? Perhaps it’s many things like this, or perhaps none of them.
I’ll admit that I don’t understand, and can’t relate, to the point of view of a transgendered individual, or a homosexual male for that matter but then, though, I don’t actually understand why women find me attractive, either ;).
Firstly, being transgender is not ‘deviancy’.Secondly, even if someone with a fetish, or some form of ‘deviancy’ goes to a hospital coughing up blood, they deserve to get treated, not ostracised. I hope she gets a good lawyer.
Jesus fuck. What kind of medical professional sees a person coughing up blood, and instead of helping them, gets all freaked out about their gender identity? I mean, I know this shit happens to trans people far too often to be shocking, but it is still deeply disturbing.
Unbelievable. I hope that the hospital, the nurses, and the physician are all reported to their respective certification boards. This is just outrageous.
Look on the bright side: Their trolling is literally them asking to be torn apart in ways science has yet to explain XD
JEN , I KNOW how you feel… I’m looking at some of these other comments and thinking… wow… totally whacked—First. The guy wasn’t treated because there was NO medical emergency, except perhaps the HYSTERIA in his mind. Did he die the next day? No, he didn’t. He obviously has some “stuff” going on… so the hospital HAS A RIGHT to ask for authentic medical documentation before proceeding.Just like we shouldn’t encourage bodybuilders to juke-up on steroids to pursue the ridiculous, nor should we encourage transpeople from juking up on hormones to achieve what is obviously NOT (pause, right here… and reflect on this FACT!) their natural state.Bodybuilders, anorexics, bulimics, transpeople… treat their MINDS, not their bodies. Dummies.Second. A Muslim doctor could refuse to treat a trans. Would you say anything against that? No, I bet you wouldn’t. And the hospital DID assess his condition (which can be done at a glance)… determined it WASN’T immediately dangerous and informed him, treatment would be DELAYED, not refused! Reading IS fundamental.And the media likes to stoke stories like these. It SELLS newspapers! Fodder for the evening news. And you idiots respond with all the predictable raw emotion, and frothing teenbeat outrage. Right. On. Cue.So a transperson had HIS feelings hurt. And the hospital’s answering switchboard is OVERLOADED. OVERLOADED!! Meanwhile, same hospital is performing abortions and vac-sucked body parts of little Madison or Ethan are falling, bloodied onto said hospital floor and you HYPOCRITES say not a word.You pagans are f——t.And Jenny, darlin’, YOU are going to attract people just like me when you are derogatory and ignorant about my favourite Church. M’kay? So if you don’t want a MY reaction… go back to whatever nerds do… endlessly poking each other in the belly-button, or playing with aborted fetuses, or, whatever.Timyang19 from nerdworld capsule, your type is a troll on humanity.
“First. The guy wasn’t treated because there was NO medical emergency, except perhaps the HYSTERIA in his mind. Did he die the next day? No, he didn’t. He obviously has some “stuff” going on… so the hospital HAS A RIGHT to ask for authentic medical documentation before proceeding.””Second. A Muslim doctor could refuse to treat a trans. Would you say anything against that? No, I bet you wouldn’t. And the hospital DID assess his condition (which can be done at a glance)… determined it WASN’T immediately dangerous and informed him, treatment would be DELAYED, not refused! Reading IS fundamental.”Wrong, you obviously don’t know the obligations a hospital has and the staff have when someone comes into the ER. Someone vomiting blood cannot be assessed at a glance. The hospital is required to do a physical assessment and labwork would be required in this case. The ER physician cannot refuse to assess and treat a patient properly because of their religious beliefs or any characteristic about the patient when they are in the ER. It is illegal.
Well, congratulations. That’s the most bigoted, ignorant and generally moronic thing I’ve read all day. And I perused Vox Day’s blog and the WorldNutDaily, so that’s seriously saying something.Tempting as it is to tear your nonsense apart, Jen’s right – feeble dolts like you deserve little else than mocking and derision, which is what you shall get. Open wide!
“Timyang19 from nerdworld capsule, your type is a troll on humanity”I can NOT be the only person who sees the irony in that statement.Denying someone medical care because they’re trans is completely ridiculous. Had she been a ciswoman, nobody would have even THOUGHT to deny her treatment.
Pagans?/looks around for the polytheistic atheists/realizes the concept is ridiculous/pulls out a dictionary/hands it to you*In his best Dr. Sheldon Cooper voice*There, there.
The aye’s have it on that one LOL..further more i would cut the dick of the doc off and shove it up his ass just to make him suffer some then reattach it meanwhile he ends up with a new voice LOL
Thank you LS considering you described me to a tee cuz i am a trans woman myself…
Haha wow, you’re incredibly stupid. Congratulations, you pretty much fail completely at reading, comprehension and general common sense!
There’s more biologically to gender than the presence of a penis or a vulva. Even the presence or absence of a Y chromosome can be deceptive as there are cases of someone being XX and having a penis and being XY and having a vulva. Add to that that most of what we consider gender traits are socialized and not biological and I really don’t think that you can evaluate someone’s gender based solely on their reproductive organs as that speaks nothing to their neurochemistry or other aspects of their biology that may slant far more toward what we would consider the opposite sex of them.
From a purely biological standpoint, gender and sexuality are FAR more complicated than what’s between your legs. From a social standpoint, all gender roles are cultural (e.g. cultures where men are always the ones who take care of the kids where the women work). You’re trying to take a deeply complicated issue that still has a great many unknowns and work it out into a few oversimplified variables. As long as they’re not hurting anyone else through their actions allow people to be who they are and accept them for it, it’s really not that hard.If someone dresses in culturally female clothing and considers herself female, view her as a woman. If someone dresses in culturally male clothing and considers himself male, view him as a man. The only time what’s between their legs should be of any concern to you is if you’re likely to have sex with them.
My lead at work referred to a lesbian member of lower management as a ‘lezbo’ in a derogatory tone (the rest of his complaint was valid and work related). I glared at him and told him that you don’t fucking use that as an insult, he seemed pretty taken aback as I’m typically pretty easygoing at work.Countering the ignorance is the only way to correct it, props to you for taking a stand.
I have a friend who got a radiation therapy degree at IU, she worked as a radiation tech as part of her schooling at a local hospital and they had to treat inmates, one of them was so unruly that they had to keep him handcuffed (which absorbs radiation) and tried to attack the nurses a few times before the prison stopped sending him. Dangerous degenerates like that get treatment, turning away a productive member of society for their gender identity is such bullshit.
Breath in now breath out Hands up now hands down Back up back up Tell me what you’re gonna do now Keep trollin’ trollin’ trollin’ trollin’Keep trollin’ trollin’ trollin’ trollin’Keep trollin’ trollin’ trollin’ trollin’Keep trollin’ trollin’ trollin’ trollin’You sir, are a douche. Wait, I think that’s unfair to douche’s.
Never Was An Arrow II, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.’nuff said, you don’t deserve being dealt with seriously. As Jefferson said “Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”
The complexity of the situation was exactly my point. I wasn’t attempting to reduce sexual identity to any one variable, including reducing it to a matter of personal choice.As far as how I ‘should’ view the sex of another, that’s certainly a matter up for debate. As I mention elsewhere, the only aspect of sexual identity I care about is the reproductive component. All of the other traits are either cultural, and thus irrelevant outside of the limited cultural subset in which they are being discussed, or complicated enough that they may appear in members of “either” sex (I don’t actually believe there are only two sexual identities, but I’m going to stick to your presented paradigm for purposes of this response only) making them things that are best construed as ‘individual’ traits rather than ‘sex’ traits. (breast development, body shape, hormonal balance, etc)
I agree, for the most part anyway, lol.
I used to be a pagan, but I had to give that up to become an atheist. That’s kind of how it works. It’s OK though, I wasn’t overly serious about the pagan thing, I just liked the people.
There’s lots more wrong with your comment that I think most everyone here is already aware of, but…”endlessly poking each other in the belly-button”What??Seriously, explain this one. It makes no sense whatsoever. I know you’re trolling and all, but most trolls tend to at least try to retain some semblance of not-being-entirely-silly.
I do not wish to belittle Vaught or trivialize what happened to her, nor do I have any reason to believe that she is lying about what happened, but please remember that you have only heard (well, read) one side of the story. Media reports of police violence, medical malpractice, sexual harassment or discrimination at the workplace, etc. are inevitably biased in the victim’s favor, because unlike the victim, the police, physician, hospital, employer etc. are legally prohibited from commenting on the case except in very general terms.
I think you meant to say, “playing with little Madeline and Ethan.”
Storkdok… As I said before, reading is fundamental. There is a world of difference between coughing up blood which the reporter accurately identified, and vomiting blood which requires immediate medical attention.I’m sure you know that.Of course, people suffering from gender dysphoria and who changeover are so happy afterwards, right? Apparently not: http://www.24dash.com/news/hea… But then again medical treatments are big business in the US, why let facts cloud the issue, its big business that matters, folks~LetTheCoolerNamesGitBorned… I meant Madison. Loads of people, up here in the Great White North seem to be infatuated with this name. In fact, Madison is the 4th most popular girl’s name in the USA, right now! But thanks for the polite prompt. Respect for others, who have a completely opposite worldview is rare among atheists. Are you sure you are an atheist?Here’s the data: http://baby-names.familyeducat…DES… just saw your comment, thoughtful point… wasted on this crowd.The “judges” here need hear only one side of the story to reach their decision, after all that’s what rash judgment is all about—
Thank you, NWAA2, for cheering me up today. I am not an athiest, and I am in fact a member of a sect of Christianity…if you want to get technical…and I just giggled my head off at this. To be nice and get into heaven, I decided to give you some lessons in trolling! 1. If you’re going to insult someone, at least call them by the correct name. This is an ATHIEST blog, not a pagan one. 2. “Endlessly poking each other in the belly button”? Why, NWAA2 “darlin'”, I do believe you were trying to elude to sexual activities! *gasps and faints in horror, then sits up and giggles* You’re so cute and innocent! For that, I’ll pardon you on the “bloodied onto said hospital floor” part. Because, you know, you’re too innocent to realize that that doesn’t happen quite like that.3. Um, yes, I would say something against a Muslim doctor refusing to treat a trans. As would most other people. It’s still morally wrong.4. While I’m breaking your pretty little mind, I might as well fix it, because you’re hurting your body greatly by sitting in those pews and kneeling – it’s messing up the S curve of your spine so soon you will only be fit to crawl upon your knees to kiss other’s ….dusty feet.5.I love being called hypocrite by another hypocrite! You should watch Jekyll and Hyde. It’s funny.6. “No Medical Emergency”? Wow, I’d like to see YOU not freak out in the same condition! (Give me a H! Give me a Y! Give me a P! Give me a…)7. Here’ s a dictionary. Enjoy it. Read it. Then forget it all, right? Because if they disagree with you, they’re all the same.8. Um, I believe “Jenny, darlin'” is thinking that comments like yours are whacked, which, on a small hunch, are not the same comments that you think are “whacked”You’re adorable, though! And good job for making your side seem even less creditable. You’re doing such a good thing for humanity and your God!Oh, and a grammar lesson while I’m at it…”church” is not capitalized unless it’s at the beginning of a sentence or a proper noun. Which, by the way, it’s not.Also, “natural state” wise…yes, you were totally born believing in God and not brainwashed into it instead of making your own rational decision!
Replying to myself here, but…Unitarian Universalism. Sure, it’s *technically* Christian…*grins*I don’t share my personal religious beliefs on the internet other then that though. Google it! It’s fun! =D
Bookwitch28… I caught your response as I was just about to head out the door. Paramilitary practice and my scheduled pistol range slot are just gonna’ have to wait!”1. If you’re going to insult someone, at least call them by the correct name. This is an ATHIEST blog, not a pagan one. “First, SP-1. Pagan, I think better captures the essence here. I don’t always subscribe to the new language constructs found in contemporary parlance. A lot of these originate from nihilistic German philosophical thinking of a century ago. Germany has nothing to offer to the world. Then, or now.”Oh, and a grammar lesson while I’m at it…”church” is not capitalized unless it’s at the beginning of a sentence or a proper noun. Which, by the way, it’s not.”My Church is always capitalized. It’s the Church… not a sectarian fall-out. We were there in the beginning, and we’ll be there at the end. Unitarian Universalism? They’re still around?! And, you’re not Christian. Unitarians don’t believe in the Trinity. And don’t authentically baptize. So nope, Unitarians are not even *technically* Christian…*grins*.Thanks for comin’ out, though.
To Never was an arrowThought I would weigh in with this thread if you kind people would not mind. I am a close family friend of the Vaughts. Your claims that coughing up blood is not an emergency are false, I assure you.Erin had been coughing up blood for about three weeks, prior to expelling a very large amount that necessitated the trip to the emergency room. When she finally did get seen at another hospital 2 hours away, a chest X-ray and an MRI revealed a mass. She is now in the care of an oncologist. Your comments are quite insensitive to the situation. Your hatred is blinding you to the real issues here, to the point that you are making light of someones potentially terminal health crisis. http://jcem.endojournals.org/c…Perhaps you should read this paper on the scientific findings in the transsexual brain. It is biology. Afterwards, ask yourself what you would do in that situation.
Wait, wait – can anyone give an even remotely plausible explanation for a way that coughing up blood could be related to her being a transwoman? At all? Now, I’m a psych researcher and not a biologist, but from what I remember from all those physiology classes in college, the respiratory system is pretty durn distinct from the reproductive and endocrine systems. So if there’s no possible way that her illness, or treatment thereof, could “interfere” with any possible medical procedures she may have been undergoing as part of a sex transition – and I can’t imagine how there could be – then this is blatant, transparent, unequivocal, despicable discrimination.And also, yes, she is a SHE – people have an inalienable right to self-identify their gender (which is not necessarily related to your genetic sex or your external genitalia) however the hell they damn well please, and those of you who are willfully ignorant of that are showing immense disrespect not just for her choice, but for her autonomy as a sentient human being. To refuse to call someone by the gender they prefer is not just impolite, as some on this thread have equivocated: it’s damned insulting.
This troll has got to be a Poe.
Have you shown any actual respect for the atheists here?Out of respect, let me say this: http://dictionary.reference.co…I believe NWAA2 was referring to the 2nd and 3rd definitions provided under pagan -noun. As atheists, we are not Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, and are in fact “irreligious.” However, NWAA2, I think you should understand that pagans are commonly referred to as such if they practice religious beliefs that fall outside of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. That includes Buddhism, Tao, Shinto, Wicca, and any other religious belief. As atheism is only one portion of “non-Christian/Jewish/Muslim” and is not at all religious, it is fair to say that atheist (believing in no god whatsoever) and pagan (believing in a single god or multiple deities that do not adhere to Christian/Jewish/Muslim beliefs) are separate labels. To make this perfectly clear, atheists are not pagan because we believe in NO GOD, and pagans are not atheist because they believe in some higher deity/deities.Now, as for the medical controversy here… this is something that I’ve seen brought up more and more. Some people seem to think that religious or other personal views are or should be an excuse for refusing treatment to a patient (as well as other unethical practices in other career fields). To those people and to you, NWAA2, I link to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H… Please feel free to read the modern version of the Hippocratic Oath, or allow me to point at specific sections that I feel are applicable to this (and most such) situations.”I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.”— So, aside from overtreatment or destructive treatment, a physician (and by extension, their staff) are sworn to take every measure to treat a person’s condition.”I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon’s knife or the chemist’s drug.”— A physician is sworn to show warmth and sympathy towards their patients.”I will not be ashamed to say “I know not,” nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient’s recovery.”— In cases of simply not knowing the best course of treatment, a physician is sworn to ask others to help care for a patient. This would suggest, then, that turning a patient away is a n0-no.”I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know.”— Stating openly in public that someone is a transgender, if it is not BLATANTLY obvious to everyone in the area, disrespects their privacy. The employees at the front desk violated this. If you’d rather, you can also check it against HIPAA’s guidelines.”I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person’s family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.”— Even if the medical staff didn’t like the idea of this person’s transgender situation, they needed to consider all aspects of the patient’s life and perform a proper diagnostic. Simply looking at the patient and turning them away, transgender or not, violates this oath.”I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.”— Even if you, NWAA2, consider transgenders to be not of sound mind, the medical staff in question swore an oath of obligation to ALL of their fellow human beings, which includes this trans woman.All that aside, if you’re a follower of the Christian faith, then you should be familiar with the Book of Mark?Mark 1:40-41 [40] A man with leprosy came to him and begged him on his knees, “If you are willing, you can make me clean.” [41] Filled with compassion, Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!”
As an aside, “Church” is applicable when it is a proper noun, as in Roman Catholic Church, or St. Luke’s Episcopal Church. You can’t just say “Church,” or “My Church.” Furthermore, all forms of Christianity are sectarian fall-outs of Judaism, which predates Christianity substantially. So NWAA2, are you Jewish? Or perhaps one of the many polytheist religions that FAR predated Judaism? Let me tell you, I highly doubt “your” church was there “in the beginning.”
The point is, it’s not up to you to decide. If a person tells you their name, the expectation is that you use their name. If you insist upon calling them by their last name because you believe given names are irrelevant outside of the limited context of identifying between two people of with same last name, you’re being extremely disrespectful. Extending this, if someone identifies racially as Jewish, it’s not your place to tell them they are Caucasian because you insist Jew is just a religion, not an ethnicity. To do so would be offensive.It’s the same situation here. You are insisting that a person’s self-identified gender is irrelevant, and protesting that those who disagree with you just don’t understand the point you were making. We understand completely.By saying that, “the only aspect of sexual identity I care about is the reproductive component,” it is reminiscent of those who claim they’re “color blind” with respect to race. While well-meaning, what it reveals is that rather than accepting the racial or gender identity of the person, you are denying that component of their identity because it is more convenient. It’s tantamount to saying, “I’m not biased against people named Bob; I don’t recognize anyone’s name as being valid.”
1: English is a Germanic language. But more importantly, trying to imply that it has any implication on the validity of a word is…not even worth a metaphor or a simile. It’s just ignorant. 2: If it isn’t worth a metaphor, what makes you think it’s worth a second thought?
The only thing I can think of are the ghosts from Legend of Zelda, who draw near, attack, and then disappear before you have a chance to return the attack. …Somehow, this actually sounds like it might be what you mean.
“Pagan, I think better captures the essence here. I don’t always subscribe to the new language constructs found in contemporary parlance.”Oh good. I don’t always subscribe to new language constructs found in contemporary parlance, either. You’ll be perfectly okay with me substituting the over-long string of adjectives “ignorant, bigoted, morally bankrupt, fantasy-sky-wizard-worshipping” for the contemporary synonym “Fundamentalist Christian,” then. They capture your essence so much better, here. I’d sum up the reasons you’re an idiot, but since others here have already done it, I’ll leave it at that.
“You pagans are f——t.”??feet?foot?fart?fact?flat?font?f??tAnyone got an idea what is meant here? Not the pagan part, the f–t part.If you are going to bleep something, you still have to leave some idea of what the f*ck you are bleeping. C*cksucker can’t even f*cking bleep properly. Probably too busy bl*wing his d*d, while st**ling m*ney fr*m mom’s p*rse to f*cking bl**p pr*perly.Like that, d*mb*ss!
I have to believe that Never was an Arrow II is just happy as can be with himself. He came onto an Athiests blog and got a bunch of people’s panties in a wad. Must have just made his day.Some people have nothing better to do than be deliberately ignorant trolling for a response.Ignore the moron and hlpefully he will go away. Its not like you are going to change his mind. After all he BELIEVES!!!!
Zenlite said: “Constitutionally speaking we only have what rights as have been explicitly given to us, which would suggest that we do not in fact have a right to a gender identity, though we would certainly have a right to call ourselves whatever we wanted as an extension of the First Amendment. “BULLSHIT! The constitution prohibits the government from restricting certain rights. No rights are granted. Rights are inalienable and extend far beyond anything the constitution mentions. Rights exist like an endless sea, governments restrict certain rights in order to keep order and to prevent the violation of rights by others, that is all. This is not a monarchy.Read the Ninth Amendment: “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”This explicitly says that if a right is not mentioned in the Constitution, it does not mean the right does not exist. Hence, all rights exist, only some are restricted.You are completely wrong. You can do this, because the Constitution does not restrict your right to be ignorant.
@Introbulus – You mean you don’t know what a Poe is? Or a troll? Must be the former. A Poe is someone making a parody of fundamentalism that has been (or can easily be) mistaken for the real thing. From Poe’s Law: “Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won’t mistake for the real thing.” Troll I assume you know, someone who makes comments they may or (more likely) may not actually believe just to get angry comments from others as a form of attention seeking behavior. I refer of course to Never Was an Arrow above.
Actually, it *is* up to me to decide how to view the world. Your assertion that it is not is an imposition of your world view onto mine, which is hypocritical to say the least.Your initial analogy is flawed: I never said that just because I don’t see most individuals as having a sex that I would be so absolutely idiotic as to make the faux pas of ignoring that *others* view *their* sex as mattering. To suggest that I would is more than a bit insulting.This is to say that while I may not care that a black person is black, I *am* aware that they likely care that they are black.Please don’t extend my statements into ridiculous places, you do yourself a disservice.As for your second analogy, I never indicated that it was my place to tell anyone what their gender was. My statements were regarding internal processes only and never included the assertion that I was the arbiter of how others should view or identify themselves.In addition to this, though perhaps beside the point, I’m fairly certain that the Semitic races *are* Caucasian, or Caucasoid more specifically, though I imagine you meant “White” in the more common usage of the term.I did not, at any point, indicate that a persons self identified gender is irrelevant in toto, only that it is irrelevant to *me*. As for understanding, the very existence of your post indicates that you do not understand. If you did, your post would be regarding the topic of the complexity of sexual identity and the worthlessness of a binary classification system. Your post doesn’t even touch on these topics, indicating that you have not a fucking clue about what I’ve been saying.I can tell you this true, as *I* wrote the damn things.To that, the only reasonable counter assertion is that I am lying about the content of my own posts, in some attempt to sway you to agree with me, but the flaw in that position is thus:What the hell do I have to gain from getting a few individuals here to agree with me?This leaves us with two core, reasonable potentialities. Either:a) I wrote a post, musing on the complicated nature of the sexes and how our terminology for them is weak and inadequate, in the hopes of generating interesting discourse, but was waylaid by a few individuals who didn’t understand my post for one reason or another whether it was personal bias, differing relationships with the written word, or something else entirely.orb) I’ve spent countless hours generating increasingly layered lies regarding the meaning of what I’ve said for no apparent gain other than some sick entertainment value.You obviously will believe whatever you will believe, but consider this:If it is A) then you are being both obnoxious and an idiot, and as your post doesn’t even remotely bear on what I am talking about, there is no one to convince with the argument you’ve concocted out of boorish asshattery.Alternately, if it is B) then I am just making shit up and clearly have no investment in my words, making me just a boorish troll who will be convinced of nothing by your words, and why would you feed a troll?So, in close:Don’t be an asshat.
eeeeeeppppppppic faaaaaail!!!!while i can see the pagan coments with the fact that some uneducated mite mistake a blog like Jenifer, but isnt pulling out that nihilistic german phylosophy stuff getting mighty close to godwins law?? and u got love/run screaming into the night the Paramilitary practice from fundamentalist the shooting range is diff i love poping off a few rounds at PAPER targets and im not even aloud to care a pistol in australiaand ill leave my ramblying disjointed and gammaticly incorect thoughts there
“Bodybuilders, anorexics, bulimics, transpeople… treat their MINDS, not their bodies.”Actually, body builders go through some pretty tough training programs just to maintain their figure.And it’s not just pumping iron – it’s about a constant regimen of strict dieting programs, dehydration, and pushing every fibre of their being even when their muscles are literally burning from exhaustion and fatigue.And they do this for several months at a time. In short, their training is as mentally as it is physically brutal. I know this because when I practiced arnis, I was encouraged by our teacher to build up muscle mass, and our gym instructor was one dedicated SOB when it came to us bulking up.Professional body building is not a mental illness – it’s a discipline, much like sports and martial arts. Which, arrow, is my way of saying that you have no fucking idea what you’re talking about, although I do thank you for singling my comment out :)
Actually, he/she – nvm, I’ll just call Arrow II “It” – is right. I am a troll. Or at least I was when I was still in WoW. I was also draenei, gnomish, and blood elf. XD Arrow II was right about the nerd bit as well, but given most of us are self-confessed nerds here, commending her for spotting that detail would be like awarding a drunk for hitting the broad side of a barn.
Don’t worry, we don’t.
Poe was the term that I couldn’t place. Thank you for explaining it to me.
Family Friend… I wish your friend no harm.But WHO waits three weeks to seek assessment for an ongoing irregular condition? That’s poor judgment. I have no hatred. I am not an atheist. Every person is precious to God.I do not agree however with fixing a wrongly wired brain by reversing one’s body’s innate sexuality. And I never will. And brain overhauling is presently beyond us. But that would be the welcome solution. And one paper does not a position make, no matter how many other papers reference it. Besides the Dutch are all on drugs, so I’ll wait for MANY other studies, from other regions of the world, to augment these findings. For those of us who have been around a while, we have seen how supposed scientific findings have been used to push a worldview that is distinctly anti-Christian and Christians everywhere are sick of it. And we’ll be fighting back more and more, whatever, road that takes us down.What happened to your friend, at that hospital I would take as information. People are not comfortable with transpeople, right? So your friend has a duty to help them become comfortable. And that is not by being helplessly hurt, or fragile in their presence, or, by lawfare. Then you’ll just get resentfully yours types. Humour goes a long way to creating tolerance and putting people at ease.
Excuse me, but how on earth do you know the brain is wired incorrectly, and the the body is “right”? How would the brain be fixed? Why stop at sexuality, we could go ahead and surgically remove bad manners as well! How would you deal with someone who was hermaphrodite, with both sets of organs? Which way should the brain be wired for such an individual? What about testosterone-insensitive women who actually are genetically male, but who have the default-setting female bodies and indeed brains but when examined in detail, you find they have internal testes rather than ovaries and only a partially-developed vagina?Your view is based on a position of ignorance.And being as I am one-eighth Dutch… Well, I’ll take that comment as a demonstration of your ignorance as well, and leave it there!Scientists don’t pick an “anti-Christian” approach, any more than they pick an anti-Buddhist or an anti-Jewish or an anti-Hindu approach. Fundamentalist christians however, are deliberately picking an anti-science approach.Science around the world is independent of culture: You go to a meeting in Tokyo and the science is accepted in the same way as it would be in London, New York, Canberra, Athens, Mumbai, Sao Paolo, Beijing, or Toronto. In science, you don’t need to ‘believe’ the world is about 4.5 billion years old: We can go out and measure it, using the same scientific tools and methods that help us cure cancers and convict murderers. Religions on the other hand are extremely culturally dependent. Everyone from one religion believes everyone else’s beliefes are wrong. Atheists, simply go one religion further.
No, bigot, you don’t get to decide who is or is not a Christian based on your theological biases. Unitarians reject the Trinity for the same reason most Protestants reject the Catholic veneration of Mary: Because it is absurd to them. God having a multiple personality disorder is pagan inspired blasphemy.
Ah damn science always pushing an anti-Christian worldview, otherwise known as “reality” with its “facts”. Like how the Earth revolves around the Sun, isn’t the center of the universe, and is round. That the stars are massive burning balls of gas instead of pretty lights hung in a crystal ceiling for us to look at.
Poe or not, is this not a lot of troll-feeding at this point?
Not only Pagans but,”You pagans are f——t.”So, we’re also feet, or fart? Maybe fruit?
He’s clearly an assh*le.
I just have to step in here and point out that, while it’s only been mentioned a couple of times, people with both or indeterminate sets of sex organs are not hermaphrodites – the correct term is Intersex. Hermaphrodite technically refers to a species, like snails, that have both male and female organs and no sexual distinction between individuals.As humans have evolved with two sexes, when both are present in an individual, it is called intersex. But that’s just a small aside.
I love my trans friends and whenever I hear of shit like this, it makes me sad that we humans are so full of our own pretensions.One of my trans friends pointed out that since “trans” comes from the Latin meaning “across,” and the latin for “on this side” is “cis,” she likes calling herself a Tranny and everyone else is a Cissy. (I decided it was too cute to point out proper Latin pronunciation) :)
Good point, well made. Thanks for the reminder
Holy Smokes! Stephen Arnold you actually believe that stuff!Hippocratic Oath! That’s a scream! Hypocrites oath, maybe. Arnold quotes it thick here… it gets better,””I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon’s knife or the chemist’s drug.”— A physician is sworn to show warmth and sympathy towards their patients.So Stephen what part of bedside manner does ABORTION, especially partial-birth abortion fall under? Hhhmmmmm? Waiting, here…MarcusBailius…”Excuse me, but how on earth do you know the brain is wired incorrectly, and the the body is “right”?”The paper the Family Friend quoted said the brain was wired differently from hetereos. Both the Trans and the hetero have the same sexual apparatus, but the error was in some sector of Deep Space Nine within the brain. These people have fully developed, fully functioning genitalia. But the trans will never achieve that state again through sex change. So we take the easier route. Change the inclinations of the brain.”Science around the world is independent of culture.”If that is true then why does the DSM IV no longer castigate homosexuality like it once did?Every book of illustrious science before Roe vs. Wade defined life as beginning at conception. And now they WON’T say. Oh no… science is quite dependent on its surrounding culture especially PC sensitive to women’s apparent rights to snuff the unborn. Do you actually believe that fodder you dish up for me to laugh at? Look at all the “scientific” experiments “scientists” performed on helpless, imprisoned Jewish subjects in WW II. Especially twins. Only the Catholic Church stood against the madness and onslaught against the Jewish race as Albert Einstein dutifully noted in TIME magazine.And we, are standing against the innocent slaughter of the unborn in every case, today. Only us! Always.Modern science isn’t practicing science, its’ practicing politics. Now I know even the partial Dutch are on drugs~And since the nerds are fixated and constipated with f – – t, see here:http://www.urbandictionary.com…Not Poe, foe.
Someone should abort you right now…
Have you ever been in a discussion or debate with friends and then one of your friends jumps in on your side but says something SO INCREDIBLY dumb that you think – Oh God, could you please not be on my side here? Yeah, as a prolife Catholic I’m very much feeling this way right now. Cause see, the things is I’m Prolife – you know both pro and life. In favor of it. In favor of everyone’s right to life – and respect in that life. Heck, even happiness in that life! So it sickens me to hear about someone being denied medical treatment. Even if that person is a terrible person who was busy torturing puppies and drowning kittens before going to the hospital (let alone making an innocuous choice about *her own* life that doesn’t hurt innocent people). And it sickens me to hear about someone being treated so disrespectfully at a time of need (or really any time, but worse being kicked when down). Anyway, I hope that disagreeing with many fundamentals of this blog doesn’t make me a troll by definition – but if that’s how it’s defined… I just hate the company that means that I keep.
“”I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon’s knife or the chemist’s drug.”— A physician is sworn to show warmth and sympathy towards their patients.So Stephen what part of bedside manner does ABORTION, especially partial-birth abortion fall under? Hhhmmmmm? Waiting, here…”Do you show sympathy for the tumor taken out of you? Do you think of the feelings that the cancer may feel? Do you not even take in the idea that maybe it’s sentient and feeling and doesn’t want to die? No. Of course not. Because the tumor isn’t the patient. The patient is the patient.With this in mind, the patient and their comfort is what matters. The patient is treated with care, not the virus they want out of them. And to mess you up even more, I’m more pro-life than I am choice. I don’t think abortion should be a form of birth control. But tell me, what of the crack babies, or the ones coming into crazy families, or families that can’t financially or emotionally support them? And don’t even begin to say adoption, because the adoption system is complete and utter shit.
You may not see the defense, but I guarantee you that if the case went in front of a jury chosen from a collection of similarly Neanderthal-minded people, they would. “My tax dollars being used to benefit Pre-verts?!” would be the rallying cry. Unfortunately, there are all too many people who regard anyone different from them as not human like them.
Ummm..you still haven’t said what “f – – t” is..Please help out an elderly (64) trans woman from the upside-down part of the world, & tell her what “f – – t” is;the waiting is making her brain hurt!