When I first conceived my boobquake experiment, I thought I was testing the claims of a single man who had failed to think scientifically. But now someone higher up in the Iranian government is supporting Sedighi’s hypothesis – Ahmad Jannati, “longtime head of the ultra-conservative Guardian Council, which vets all laws and political candidates for office.” The LA Times reports:
Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati might have thought he was clarifying remarks by his colleague, the cleric Kazem Sedighi, who suggested in a Friday prayer sermon a week ago that women who dress immodestly cause earthquakes by angering God.
Instead Jannati, who delivered the nation’s keynote sermon in the Iranian capital this Friday, reiterated the claim that human behavior causes — and can also prevent — earthquakes.
He told worshipers on Friday that while science cannot yet predict earthquakes, they can be spiritually prevented by repentance and prayer.
“We can avoid earthquakes if the faithful and devoted people pray to God,” Jannati said during the Friday sermon.
Ah, good thing I wasn’t grossly misinterpreting anything! Though for the sake of science, I hope people who believe this keep their repentance and prayers at normal levels on Monday. I don’t want any confounding variables ruining my study. And they shouldn’t either – wouldn’t they like to know if they’re right about women’s immodesty causing earthquakes?
On a more serious note, I love how since earthquakes are unpredictable, we must therefore conclude that they’re controlled by God. We understand how they occur, but it’s difficult to predict a location. Why? Because so many variables are constantly interacting with each other, and that sheer amount of complexity is incredibly difficult to model. Maybe one day we’ll have even more scientific knowledge and computing power to do so. But just because something is complex doesn’t mean we throw in the towel and yell “God did it!”
Of course, maybe God is making the earth rumble because he hates immodestly dressed women. That’s what makes Sedighi’s claim so wonderful – it actually is scientifically verifiable. And when someone makes ludicrous claims that can be tested, we should do so. Monday night I’ll do some statistics, and then we will have a better idea. Though it seems even Jannati has his doubts:
While Jannati called for prayer as a way of preventing earthquakes, he didn’t rule out using less celestial methods. “Officials precautionary moves to make homes quake-proof are appreciated,” he said.
Does he doubt the power of modesty to prevent earthquakes? Or does he doubt that women can easily be forced against their will to dress modestly?
Obligatory disclaimer: I in no way think that all Muslims or Iranians or theists agree with these two men. For all the rational thinkers out there who happen to fall into those groups, my mockery is not directed toward you.
SEE THE POWER OF THE SCIENCE!
I just gotta say – you rock. This is my new second-favorite blog (sorry, but PZ still takes the top, and anyway that’s how I got here in the first place). I can’t say anything about the boobquake experiment without sounding like the creepy old guy that I secretly am, so I just wish you well, and hope that it’s an earth-shaking success.
Ah, the god of the gaps is alive and well (In the minds of his principle apologists.).Looks like a bit of back peddling and defensive posturing by Jannati, in support of his clerical chum, he goes on to claim that prayer will save the day, and of course the quake-proof buildings designed after extensive research and testing by the scientific community will help.How many buildings has god saved through research, with his omnipotence and 6000 years [sic] of overseeing mankind. why have many millions of his finest creation died in horrific quakes and eruptions. For that matter, why is the land of his most cherished plagued with quakes, whilst the lands of the immoral infidels is largely unscathed? Either there is no god, or he’s trying to tell you something!Jen, this is getting bigger by the day, before long you’ll be appearing on stage next to those other great minds, Dawkins, Harris, Myers and Hitchens. I’d certainly pay good money to hear you speak.
Naked atheist. Calm down. It’s not that serious. You sound like you’re about to start a campaign against God or something. GO smoke some weed or something.
Does the Quran have an equivalent of the Biblical admonition, “You shall not put the LORD your God to the test?”
Science is the crutch of the blind :P Most religious ppl today are equally blind. Only the mystics have a clue of what’s going on.
Looking forward to the results on Monday (assuming my house is still standing). But I’m concerned there is a flaw in your experiment. Are you testing whether god will be angry at all the immodest women, or are you testing his existence? I expect the results will show no statistically significant difference in the number or intensity of quakes. This means either: 1 – god likes immodest women; 2 – god does not exist; 3 – god essentially counts to 10 before getting angry – he may not punish us immediately for our immodest behaviour; 4 – god cannot respond immediately to boobquake because that would prove his existence. Proof of god would destroy all religions because no one would need to have Faith anymore.I hope the answer is #1.Purdue BS EE
Jen, it looks like your recent meteoric rise in popularity has brought with it an influx of trolls…
What rock have you been hiding under, the campaign started years ago.Religion is about controlling people, as Jen has clearly illustrated, and it’s about time that reasonable and rational people stood up to the threats and intimidation that goes on in the name of a god or gods.
Definitely not testing God’s existence. 3 and 4 can be alternative hypotheses!
Aw boy, here we go. Religion serves a useful purpose for those who seek comfort in it. Why try and oppose it? Just live your life as best as you see fit. You’re not religious…cool. Neither am I, but I’m not gonna go around trying shut down the ‘Machine’. Life is too short.
Belief in a god or gods may bring comfort to some, but religion is about controlling people, from Iranian clerics spouting BS, to Catholic clergy covering up crimes to protect their own.While peasants in third world countries are putting money in collection dishes, the clergy are living a life of opulence in Rome. Why should some man in a frock dictate how you live your life.
And I agree with you to a certain extent. Religion is setup to mostly benefit those in the upper hierarchy. But do you really wanna exhaust your time and energy being upset at them? Just ignore their manipulative ways, their doctrine, in fact their entire system and live your life. Do you. That’s all I’m saying.Look, you want me to fly out there, roll up a fat one and help you see the light? Get you in tune with your higher being?
Does the Quran have an equivalent of the Biblical admonition, “You shall not put the LORD your God to the test?”Gotta love that line. How about “Thou shalt not put the banknotes thou receivest under the fluoroscope” or “Thou shalt not look to see whether the miraculously healed paraplegic is back in her wheelchair for the show in the next town on the tour”?
Certainly. Religion serves a useful purpose for those who seek comfort in it – I can agree with this. However, when religion starts to force itself into my life or the lives of my children, dictating how I should live my life, then I have a problem with it. When religion brings violence into my life of the lives of my children, yeah, again I have a problem with it. My issue with religion isn’t that it brings comfort to those who believe. My issue is that religion is still being forced into every aspect of my life, whether I want it or not. (MHO)
The manipulation of religion is long overdue for intense scrutiny, if left unchecked they will exercise control over the weak and feeble. Take the Popes dictate that condoms are against god, and cause the spread of HIV, on what basis of truth did he spout that BS?This is the type of manipulation and control that must be ended in civilised society, we can vote out politicians, and we can overthrow dictators, but the church carries on unabated. The Catholic church supported Hitler at the start of WWII, until the PR started to look bad, then they distanced themselves.
I gotta give it to you. You are certainly more aware of the Pope’s agenda than I am. And I was raised as a Catholic. Goes to show how far from the wagon I fell off. Anyways, I understand your concern about religion controlling the weak-minded (let’s say easily influenced – I’ll be nice). Of course, they’re going to feed into whatever propaganda is flung at them. That is to be expected. After all, they’re placing their beliefs in a time-tested elaborate system. It’s been around for centuries. How can you hope to compete with that?Regardless of your views on politicians or any other public official susceptible to public scrutiny; Pope included. The fact remains, people on mainstream level will always seek to understand the meaning of life. And that’s where Religion conveniently fits in. How you gonna get rid of that?
I’m curious. How is it forced into your life?
On a monthly basis I get a knock on my door from door-to-door religious salesmen despite my very polite and public warning that I am not amicable to such conversations. This is just one sample of how religion is forced into my life. I don’t go to anyone’s door to expound the logic of atheism.
Proof of god would destroy all religions because no one would need to have Faith anymore.Plagiarist! I shall tell on you to Douglas Adams! Actually, an interesting possibility. Suppose we did get proof of some seriously higher-order intelligence (I refuse to say supernatural, since that cannot exist by definition; things are either natural or they don’t exist). This entity would not, I’m sure, much resemble YHWH, Allah and the rest of the gang, so we atheists would not have much to apologise for. Studying him, her or it would then become a branch of Science, no?
Oh yeah, the infamous Jehovah witnesses. They come around my house every weekend also. If I’m not expecting company, I assume it’s them. Sometimes I’ll respond to the doorbell. I’ll walk up to the window, see who it is….look…yup, it’s them. Then I continue doing what I was doing. I don’t even waste my time entertaining them. When I was kid, my mother would to let them in the house and listen to them go and on. I knew she didn’t wanna hear that but she was too nice. I used to laugh at her for doing so.
Jen and the boobsquad: “double-D, A-cup! c-Cup! B! PLAYTEX!””…by your powers combined, II AAAMMM CAPTAAIINNN CLEAVAAAGGGEEE!”*rumblerumblerumble*Iran: “OH MY GOD NO! LOOK WHAT YOUR SCIENCE HAS WROUGHT!”
@Hugo GrinebiterHow do you propose to study something that isn’t evident? If you study gods and religions you’re a theologist, and that most certainly isn’t a branch of the sciences.The funny thing is there is heaps of historical evidence of religions that pre-date Christianity, and it’s clearly evident that many of the stories in the bible were taken from numerous religions of the time, the virgin birth for instance.Who decided that Jesus was born on Dec 25, it was Pope Julius 1st in 350 AD, this was the when the predominately Pagan Romans held wild parties and exchanged gifts to celebrate the winter solstice. The Pope knew they wouldn’t want to give up the traditional revelries, so he hijacked the occasion. Most of the Christmas paraphernalia is Pagan in origin, the Yule log, the Christmas tree, the holly wreath, kissing under the mistletoe, etc.If you’re waiting for proof of a higher being, my advice is not to hold your breath, Christians have been waiting for 2000 years!P.S. Mmmm, something went wrong there, this was meant to be a reply to a post, not a new post.
I think Ms. McCreight must be paying these guys off to get them to say such stupid, stupid things. http://laughinginpurgatory.blo…
Heroin serves a useful purpose for those who seek comfort in it. It also causes a great deal of harm. Just because something serves a useful purpose doesn’t mean it’s a good thing overall, and it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t speak out against it.
Personally, I think a small dose of troll is good for the conversation. As long as you keep out the really crazy ones, which thanks to Disqus, Jen now can.
How do you propose to study something that isn’t evident? If you study gods and religions you’re a theologist, and that most certainly isn’t a branch of the sciences.Would you be so kind as actually to read what I wrote before trashing a straw man?
Where Jen leads the way, others merely follow; There has now been a ‘Draw Mohammad Day’ declared:http://reason.com/blog/2010/04…The atheist community on ewetoob has already started.
What about immodestly dressed men? I mean, if anything were going to piss off God, I would assume it would be skinny guys in tight gym shorts.
Trolls? Funny. Someone disagree with your Atheist views and right away you’re quick to place the label of troll on them. Way to stand out from the close-minded religious fanatics.
Speak out against whatever you wish, homie. You’re wasting your breath though. Religion is here to stay until the end of mankind. You might wanna let that concept marinate in that Atheist brain of yours. I like your clever Heroin analogy though. But let me ask you this, since you know Heroin is bad for you….you also know to stay away from it right?Exactly.Get the damn chip off your shoulder. Enjoy life.
Apologies to Mr. Adams. Didn’t know he had already published that thought even though I have read all the books (some years ago). Maybe somewhere in my mind I remembered his idea and it was the genesis of my comment (sorry about the biblical reference there).
If I wasn’t married, I’d call you my soulmate. Hmmm, can you still be my soulmate anyway? Let’s piss off god (lower “g”) as much as possible and cause an earthquake that would shame Noah’s flood.
If #1 is true, than maybe we’ll get a special prize from God on Monday. Fresh Belgian Waffles raining from the sky….yum!
I’m not comfortable with the Troll label either Marco L. Speaking of trolls, I assume everyone has seen this:
Whether religion will be around “until the end of mankind” has yet to be seen. However, it is irrelevant. Yes, I stay away from heroin. In addition to staying away from it, I would advise people I care about to stay away from it.But let’s drop the analogy. We don’t object to religion because we don’t want to be religious ourselves. I don’t object to religion if it isn’t hurting anybody, and doesn’t infringe on the lives and rights of others. The problem is, religion does cause actual, measurable harm. Like most major religions, Islam is directly responsible for the suffering and subjugation of countless people. In the name of Islam, women are abused, imprisoned, tortured, and killed. Do yourself a favor. Go look at some pictures of women who’ve had their faces melted off with acid in islamic countries for the crime of daring to show their face in public. When you’re done with that, come back and tell me “It’s not that serious.” Asshole.
Ooooh. I like that. Swearing at me now. Trust, I know all about what happens to women over there in the Islamic countries. But I can’t do nothing about it. Can you? Are you gonna play superhero, go over there and save the day? I doubt it very much. Most likely you’ll go about your regular routine…going to work, pay your bills, take care of your loved ones…then hop on the computer to whine on forums such as this.Get a grip.
That was hilarious. First time I’ve seen that.
Apologies for the nested quotes: “Though it seems even Jannati has his doubts: ‘While Jannati called for prayer as a way of preventing earthquakes, he didn’t rule out using less celestial methods. “Officials precautionary moves to make homes quake-proof are appreciated,” he said.'”Ahey hey HEY! That’s blasphemy on the same scale as installing lightning conductors on church spires, isn’t it? If the supreme boing wants to destroy something at random, who are we to stop it? Witness a number of churches going “kaboom” from all the gunpowder people used to stash in this hyper lightning safe place. Always provided my guess at parsing the Persian came anywhere near the indended “meaning”, of course. Ditto exegesis. Anyway: Boobs awaaaay!
I am a full supporter of boobquake (I just bought a boobquake tank top!) but Jannati may be inadvertently right that human behavior can cause earthquakes (of course, inadvertently again.) Check out Scientific American http://www.scientificamerican….
“Obligatory disclaimer: I in no way think that all Muslims or Iranians or theists agree with these two men. For all the rational thinkers out there who happen to fall into those groups, my mockery is not directed toward you.”I’ve never understood the point of these disclaimers. Either a rational thinker can tell this just from reading what you wrote, or you previously wrote something explicitly contrary to this in which case they won’t believe the disclaimer. The dumbshits who happen to not agree with (or mentally lump themselves in with) the group you’re mocking just won’t listen. :/
On the surface, it seems like it is outragous to claim that promescuity can cause earthquakes, because the link is not obvious. This however, does not exclude the possibile existence such a cause effect relationship between promiscuity and earthquakes. It would be very interesting if an earthquake were to take place right after Ms Jennifer McCreight endeavour, would that prove that this link exist?
No, that just pisses off everybody.
OK, completely off the topic of Religion, Shakers, Movers and Trolls…Jen, you are one very cute scientist!
Tee hee. “‘[s]heer’ amount of complexity”.I love a good geo-pun.
God bless you and the joy of science.
God is not against science. Science reveals the greatness of God’s creation. As for who the Moslem’s worship, Allah, he’s not God.That said, we are left with an interesting question: do boobs cause the earth to quake, or do quakes cause the boobs to shake? Maybe they are mutually supportive (pardon the pun), a harmonic of sorts. So if your boobs cause the earth to quake, and the quakes cause the earth to shake, I figure the whole planet will tear itself to pieces in a few days. That would be sad cause I was hoping to watch a hockey game that night. Thanks for ruining it. Maybe the cleric IS right and you are all evil? Well so be it. Just make sure you flatten that clerics house first. My guess is that that would have been the first time anything moved in his place in years; he really needs to get laid bad, it seems. Good luck.(;->)
God is not against science. Science reveals the greatness of God’s creation. As for who the Moslem’s worship, Allah, he’s not God.That said, we are left with an interesting question: do boobs cause the earth to quake, or do quakes cause the boobs to shake? Maybe they are mutually supportive (pardon the pun), a harmonic of sorts. So if your boobs cause the earth to quake, and the quakes cause the earth to shake, I figure the whole planet will tear itself to pieces in a few days. That would be sad cause I was hoping to watch a hockey game that night. Thanks for ruining it. Maybe the cleric IS right and you are all evil? Well so be it. Just make sure you flatten that clerics house first. My guess is that that would have been the first time anything moved in his place in years; he really needs to get laid bad, it seems. Good luck.(;->)
Shocked and appalled at the flimsiness of this experiment. We all know that scientific method requires multiple trials for confirmation. The experiment, in other words, has to be repeated many times
Almost everybody mocks these guys (called dinosaurs here in Iran!!!). It has turned into a huge joke even in Iran. this boob quake idea was relay relay greattttttttt…
Interesting comment, in that it posits that if God does exist, one can be a legitimate scientist and study about and believe in Him.However, I do wonder on what scientific basis you state categorically that anything that is not natural does not exist? That seems more like a statement of personal belief than a scientifically proven fact.
Technically, you have proven only that it is possible to expose cleavage without God sending an earthquake, but not that God never sends earthquakes in response to immorality.As a Christian with an interest in science, I would say that the majority of quakes are of natural rather than supernatural causes, and that God has only claimed credit for some specific ones. Think about a bowl of jello on a counter. A small natural tremor in the area could cause the bowl of jello to wobble. I could also cause it to wobble by poking it with my finger. The existence of one source of an occurrence does not preclude the existence of other sources.
Incidentally, I think it’s interesting to this discussion that one of the foremost experts on plate tectonics, Dr. John Baumgardner, is a Christian and a Creationist and finds no contradiction between the two. This would seem to support Jen’s disclaimer that you can be both religious and still a thinking person. :)