There’s three things, pick two. I use it often in engineering, where the corners of the triangle are Cheap, Fast, Good and you can only pick two. Managers always, always want to pick all three, just as well as the UK seems to want to pick now. Have your pie and eat it is the motto of the day.
I cannot even snigger at the stupidity of Britons who voted to leave, since I have no doubt that had Czech Republic had a similar referendum, our results would also be similar. Because despite the objectively measurable fact that we are much better of in the EU than we were outside it, a lot of people yearn for the good old days.
Good old days that never were. If I were to pick only one reason for why EU is a massive political success despite all its flaws it would be this:
There was not a war between members of EU for two generations. Prior to that, the whole EU history was stumbling from one war to another, and the scars from those wars still did not heal.
Prior to that, the whole EU history was stumbling from one war to another, and the scars from those wars still did not heal.
That’s a certain amount of what I think is happening: in order to get through the last round of Europe’s wars, some countries propagandized their people with an ideology of independence and national superiority. Then, suddenly it turns out that those ideologies can be damaging. Oops, too bad, Britons. Whipping up ultranationalist sentiment didn’t work well for Germany, Italy, France, or England.
Yes! Western Europe has been at war with itself with only brief periods of peace since the end of the Roman Empire. Except for the past 74 years. The EU (EEC) has been in existence for 62 years. Co-incidence? I think not.
I’ve been talking with my BFFs about this last night and the amount of dumbfuck arrogance displayed by various British poshliticians is staggering. My top three positions are:
3. Why don’t we get to elect members of the EP anymore? Proof that the EU is an undemocratic tyranny!
2. Withdrawing prestigious EU institutions that employ hundreds of people from the UK is unfair and petty. Why can’t you leave us your money?
1. The best solution to the border problem would be for the RoI to leave the EU as well and join the UK. Yes, we’re serious. No, we have never heard of a certain Oliver Cromwell.
*hangs head in shame*
@ Jazzlet, you cannot do anything about it and its not like you are responsible for this mess.
What does not cease to amaze me is the stallwartness of brexiteers. It was mere minutes or perhaps hours after the votes were in when the biggest fraudster of them all, Nigel Farage, admitted that their campaign slogans vere lies (regarding the infamous bus about money going to NHS instead of EU). And since then has nothing whatsoever to do with the negotiations and essentialy ha fled the country. He stirred the shit and then left someone else to deal with the stink, and it is so obvious that this is what he did.
Yet they still believe brexit is a splendid and easy idea and that he was bang on the money!. After the man who started the shitshow admitted he lied and has shown himself completely incapable of actualy doing anything useful. And he wants to start the same shitshow again if brexit fails -- and people still support him! After he publicly, albeit obliquely, admitted lying to them! And after a proof, actual hard proof, that brexit is not easy, that UK won’t get other countries clamor for deals better than those they had under EU!
Amazing. Looks like the black knight from Monty Python represents a not insignificant portion of UK population. ” ‘Tis but a scratch!”
The posturing that’s going on in Britain is ridiculous. The whole bloody thing seems like a Monty Python sketch. I keep waiting for a shoe to descend and crush the whole lot with a big fart noise to accompany it.
And of course the referendum was the peoples word, immutable for ever more. Bleargh
I wish a Monty Python Foot would decend on the whole lot of them in the Chamber so we could build a less adversrial seating arrangment.
And now they’ve rejected a second referendum -- along with the one deal they have, and also a no deal solution. One wonders what they expect will happen.
The last plausibly sounding plan about Brexit that I heard of on UK side wast “turn of all lights and pretend nobody is home”.
The video sums it up nicely. There are multiple options on the table but UK does not want any of them. Like a pampered prima donna, UK does not want what it wants, but won’t let anyone in peace until it gets it.
While there are things that can be -- more or less -- objectively detected/measured, there are also things that can’t be measured in such a way (e.g. national sovereignty) or evaluating them would require longer timespan. The problem is that general public doesn’t have (and never will have) enough time and experience/expertise for making fact-based, unbiased opinion. Opinion of some “average Joe” is therefore easily shaped by media, personal preferences or current trends.
However, the “good old days” idea does have something to it. Take a look at this chart or this TESAT report. The chart shows that, apart from 2011 (caused by 1 mad Norwegian), last decade was pretty peaceful until 2015… which was the year when migration crisis reached its peak, and 1 year after the IS gained global attention. Coincidence? I think not. I’m not blaming anyone, I just want to point out that in some perspectives the “good old days” look/looked indeed better. Whether such things are valid and sound reasons to leave EU is of course another matter.
EU has lot of good intentions. But, naturally, good intetions don’t always become good things in practice. Take Euro for example. The idea itself is noble but the real-world implementation has lot of drawbacks. Also, it seems to me that in last 2 decades whenever EU faced big problems (2008 economic crisis, Greek crisis, migration crisis, Brexit, Trump) it always offered the same solution for all of those problems: “Hey, member states, let’s integrate even more!” Given the big socio-economical differences between member states (eastern EU vs. western EU, south vs. north, democracies vs. semi-authoritarian regimes), I do not consider this “solution” to be very effective. Generally speaking, I support EU but not at all costs and my current position is that EU needs some sort of reform. This video sums up my opinion pretty nicely.
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Well, that’s the point of referendum. People don’t choose version that is objectively “better”. They choose what they (in given moment) think is the better version. Thinking and knowing are two different things. No matter the reasons, they chose Brexit. And now they have to deal with it. I don’t like Brexit but I’m afraid it’s too late to cry over spilled milk now.
I remember how in 2016 all the big Leave-leaders refused to take matters into their own hands and instead left others to manage the resulting mess. I was like “WTF? This must be some sort of tactic, this can’t be serious…” More than 2 years after and entire Brexit still feels like a bad joke… Seeing what it does to powerful country such as UK, I definitely think that Czexit would be only unimaginably stupid geo-political suicide.
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I recommend Still M.A.Y. song for those who want some Brexit-styled fun for a change.